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How Motion Sickness Works · Stuff You Should Know

0:01
Speaker 1: Welcome to you stuff you should know from house Stuff
0:04
Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm
0:13
Speaker 1: Joshua Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and Jerry's over there.
0:18
Speaker 1: I'm speaking in a monotone kind of Hey, dude, Hey,
0:27
Speaker 1: how's it going. It's going well. I'm not motionsick, so
0:32
Speaker 1: things are fine. Do you get motion sick sometimes? I mean,
0:36
Speaker 1: if the conditions are right. I was really surprised to
0:39
Speaker 1: find that not everybody gets motion sick. What are your conditions? Um,
0:44
Speaker 1: poor ventilation and like lots of movement, um, backseat of
0:48
Speaker 1: a car. Okay, uh, but anytime I read in a car,
0:54
Speaker 1: even like glancing at my phone on a map. Really,
0:59
Speaker 1: if I have to read anything, it gets me very quick.
1:03
Speaker 1: So I've just learned that, like, I can't do it. Yeah,
1:05
Speaker 1: I cannot do it. So I don't I get it
1:09
Speaker 1: a little bit too. I used to get it more,
1:12
Speaker 1: I think when I was younger. Supposedly it's normal. Supposedly
1:15
Speaker 1: it is. But I remember a very specific story that
1:18
Speaker 1: my brother still laughs at. And by the way, boy,
1:21
Speaker 1: I'm glad I said that I owe my brother, my
1:24
Speaker 1: big brother, a big apology because I saw him over
1:27
Speaker 1: the weekend and he said, oh, by the way, I
1:30
Speaker 1: was just done an old episode and he said, you've
1:32
Speaker 1: never been a groom's a best man. I was the
1:35
Speaker 1: best man at my brother's wedding. Man. I felt like
1:40
Speaker 1: a jerk, man, Scott, I'm sorry, I know. And what
1:43
Speaker 1: happened was when I said I hadn't, I just like
1:46
Speaker 1: quickly scanned through my friends that have gotten married, and
1:49
Speaker 1: I didn't think about my brother and I was his
1:51
Speaker 1: best man. A jerk. Well, it's it's rectified now. Well
1:57
Speaker 1: I told him. I was like, you're gonna get a
1:58
Speaker 1: public apology. So there it is. That's pretty public. Yeah,
2:02
Speaker 1: it gets. You could have also started a scores based
2:06
Speaker 1: website if you wanted, but it's really easy that. Um So, anyway,
2:11
Speaker 1: this is old story. When we went to Disney, uh geez,
2:15
Speaker 1: which is the one where Body Wars is at. You
2:20
Speaker 1: should have asked Holly from stuff you missed in history,
2:22
Speaker 1: she would know if she probably senses that someone's talking
2:24
Speaker 1: about Disney right now. Body Wars either was or still is.
2:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's still there. One of those
2:31
Speaker 1: rides that you sit in a you know, it's one
2:33
Speaker 1: of those first sort of virtual things where they show
2:36
Speaker 1: you a movie and then they moved the car, like
2:38
Speaker 1: The Amazing Voyage or something, wasn't it. Yeah, you went
2:41
Speaker 1: inside a human body and we're traveling around. I want
2:43
Speaker 1: to say disney World, but I can't remember. Um so
2:47
Speaker 1: I went in that, And I mean, wait, I'm getting
2:50
Speaker 1: you grew up in Atlanta. I'm guessing you went to
2:51
Speaker 1: disney World. Well, it definitely was at Disneyland, but I
2:54
Speaker 1: don't know if he was Epcot, Universal Studio Guys, or
2:57
Speaker 1: Disney World. It was in Orlando. So from what I
2:59
Speaker 1: under stand, we have a buddy who works for Disney
3:02
Speaker 1: and he set me straight on this before, and I
3:04
Speaker 1: think I've got it. So disney World is all of those.
3:10
Speaker 1: The Magic Kingdom is what you're specifying. So disney World
3:13
Speaker 1: includes Epcott and Universal Studios. If I'm not mistaken, I
3:16
Speaker 1: really hope I'm not missing. The Magic Kingdom is specifically
3:21
Speaker 1: with the Castle. Right. If I did get that wrong, Brandon,
3:24
Speaker 1: I apologize. It's one with the castle. All the weird
3:27
Speaker 1: adults that think their children like, uh so, body wars. Anyway,
3:34
Speaker 1: you're traveling through the body, and I remember at one
3:36
Speaker 1: point I was like, man, it's getting hot in here,
3:38
Speaker 1: and Scott's like, this is great. I was like, I'm
3:40
Speaker 1: not feeling so good man. It's like, do they have
3:42
Speaker 1: the heat going. It's like, what are you talking about?
3:44
Speaker 1: It feels great? And I got I didn't vomit, but
3:47
Speaker 1: I got really sick and made it through the ride
3:50
Speaker 1: and left. And he still teases me to this day.
3:53
Speaker 1: He was like, it was temperature air controlled, and you
3:56
Speaker 1: thought it was like ninety degrees and they were like
3:58
Speaker 1: pumping in heat. It's funny, like it got to you
4:00
Speaker 1: like that, like your own body cold sweats the who while, yeah,
4:04
Speaker 1: that's bad, but generally you you actually did puke, No, no, no,
4:08
Speaker 1: I did not, you didn't. But generally I don't like
4:12
Speaker 1: it takes a certain thing, like a really hardcore roller
4:14
Speaker 1: coaster going in fast, fast circles, but I don't get
4:18
Speaker 1: sick complaints or the one cruise I went on, it
4:21
Speaker 1: didn't get sick. Yeah, you know, I've gotten. I've gotten
4:26
Speaker 1: sick before, like on vacation. But and I'm planes, it's
4:31
Speaker 1: usually fairly fleeting. It's when I introduced reading that it's
4:35
Speaker 1: like you're in big trouble for a long time. You
4:37
Speaker 1: can read on a plane though I can't. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
4:42
Speaker 1: now I think about it's reading in a car. I
4:44
Speaker 1: just gotta stay away from that. But usually it does
4:46
Speaker 1: come about with like poor ventilation that kind of thing,
4:49
Speaker 1: um yeah, which is another trigger, it's a big one,
4:51
Speaker 1: or like a rough odor or something like that. I'm
4:54
Speaker 1: sure all those things don't help. The thing is for
4:57
Speaker 1: for as much as like we kind of commonly understand
5:00
Speaker 1: and motion sickness, science really doesn't have a full explanation
5:05
Speaker 1: for it. I'm picturing little Josh because riding backwards is
5:08
Speaker 1: bad and like a rumble seat in a station wagon,
5:11
Speaker 1: in a in a super u brat with like your
5:14
Speaker 1: dad has like salami socks on or something that stink
5:18
Speaker 1: what like the windows are rolled up. I don't know,
5:20
Speaker 1: it just anything. It's something gross salamie socks, like socks
5:24
Speaker 1: made of salami, Like, wouldn't that smelled gross? He's wearing
5:29
Speaker 1: the skin of another person. Well, now I was thinking
5:32
Speaker 1: smelled like old salami, but made of salamis even better, right.
5:36
Speaker 1: I think I'm just picturing you back there, like reading
5:39
Speaker 1: your Mad magazine feeling bad. Yeah, yeah, no, I do
5:42
Speaker 1: remember being a kid and figuring out I can't read
5:44
Speaker 1: in cars. There was a period where I could, which
5:47
Speaker 1: is kind of surprising because when you're younger, you're more
5:50
Speaker 1: susceptible to motion sickness. But I could read in the
5:54
Speaker 1: car while I was younger, and then probably around the
5:57
Speaker 1: time of puberty, I was like, I can't do this anymore.
6:00
Speaker 1: You went opposite weird. Yeah, well maybe you developed your hips, right,
6:06
Speaker 1: because that's a tease. We'll just leave that out there,
6:08
Speaker 1: all right. So people supposedly are susceptible to motion sickness. Uh,
6:15
Speaker 1: and it can happen on planes, it can happen. It's weird.
6:19
Speaker 1: This one University of Maryland side I went to said, uh,
6:23
Speaker 1: the following are the most common risk factors riding in
6:25
Speaker 1: a car, boat, airplane, or space shuttle. Really, yeah, nerds,
6:31
Speaker 1: Just like they didn't even put the amusement park ride.
6:35
Speaker 1: They just went straight to space shuttle. You know, one
6:37
Speaker 1: that I hadn't seen before. But apparently as the thing is,
6:39
Speaker 1: I'm looking through a microscope, Yeah I hadn't. That makes
6:42
Speaker 1: a little bit of sense though, Yeah, because the slide
6:44
Speaker 1: can move in. Your eyes are seeing movement, but you're
6:46
Speaker 1: not moving, and yeah, I'll get to you. Uh. Like
6:50
Speaker 1: another nerdy motion sickness space shuttles and microscope. Uh So,
6:55
Speaker 1: like you said, age between two and twelve, you're more
6:57
Speaker 1: likely uh, and then you're also more likely to grow
7:00
Speaker 1: out of it after puberty. And one of the reasons
7:04
Speaker 1: that women are more motion sickness than men or get
7:09
Speaker 1: motion sickness more than men is because one of the
7:11
Speaker 1: theories is that after puberty they developed more in the hips.
7:15
Speaker 1: Men develop more in the chest, and I guess that
7:20
Speaker 1: makes a difference. They didn't really explain why they did that. Well,
7:22
Speaker 1: it all has to do with sway theory, which Will's right,
7:25
Speaker 1: sway theory. Yeah, but it is true that, like, women
7:28
Speaker 1: are more susceptible just on average, to motion sickness than
7:32
Speaker 1: men are. Yeah, studies apparently also Asian women, well Asian
7:38
Speaker 1: period because Pinn State did a study and they put
7:41
Speaker 1: people in situations that make emotion sick or not. Did
7:45
Speaker 1: you look into those Oh is it like a tilted world, dude?
7:50
Speaker 1: Like if you went in for just a clinical study,
7:52
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna make some scratch or maybe they'll give
7:54
Speaker 1: me a cool drug or something, and it turns out
7:56
Speaker 1: to be a motion sickness study, you should leave. No,
7:59
Speaker 1: I totally was. So there's this thing called a um
8:02
Speaker 1: opt to kinetic drum, I believe is what it's called.
8:05
Speaker 1: Oh I did see that. Yeah, I have to connectic.
8:08
Speaker 1: It's it's like um a drum, like a big drum
8:12
Speaker 1: that you sit inside of, and it's got a vertical
8:15
Speaker 1: black and white painted stretched and it spins around you
8:18
Speaker 1: and the motion, the movement is really emphasized and like
8:22
Speaker 1: it's designed to make anybody motion sick and that's how
8:25
Speaker 1: they induce motion sickness. And I saw another one UM
8:28
Speaker 1: where they use a chair that just kind of moves
8:30
Speaker 1: you around, whether you like it or not, and it
8:33
Speaker 1: induces motion sickness. Like, what a terrible thing to have
8:36
Speaker 1: happened to you. Man. There was a ride at six
8:39
Speaker 1: Flags over Georgia growing up that they got rid of
8:41
Speaker 1: because someone got hurt, supposedly where it's this barrel that
8:45
Speaker 1: you all get in. You stand it, it's like kind
8:48
Speaker 1: of below ground. You stand against the wall. Love those
8:51
Speaker 1: and it's spins so fast. Then they dropped the floor
8:53
Speaker 1: beneath you and then some trifical force holds you against
8:56
Speaker 1: the wall. It's like the spin cycle in the washing machine.
8:58
Speaker 1: You mean, I were just talking about that. The other
9:00
Speaker 1: thing was awful. That was my favorite of all time. Really,
9:04
Speaker 1: I just thought it was so cool. Well, the old
9:06
Speaker 1: story was that someone's leg got trapped when the floor
9:09
Speaker 1: came back up. But I remember here now that I
9:10
Speaker 1: look back, because I'm sure that was an old live stale.
9:13
Speaker 1: Although I was on Snoops the other day and I
9:15
Speaker 1: was reading an early article and they were talking about, um,
9:18
Speaker 1: you know, the urban legend about some girl who got
9:21
Speaker 1: scalped because her hair got caught in an amusement park
9:24
Speaker 1: ride or something. It actually happened, really, Yeah, the girl's
9:27
Speaker 1: ponytail got caught in there. It just got pulled right
9:30
Speaker 1: off of her head. I know, but it actually did happen.
9:33
Speaker 1: So it's possible someone's leg got got sucked into the
9:36
Speaker 1: tiltal world. Well, but then what happens is it happened
9:39
Speaker 1: at every amusement park, right, It happened to my cousin's friend, right, Alright.
9:46
Speaker 1: So the Penn State study, uh, they put people in
9:48
Speaker 1: these torture machines, and interestingly, they did confirm eight of
9:54
Speaker 1: Asian people got sick when it was less than fifty
9:58
Speaker 1: percent for Caucasian and non Caucasian, which is really it's
10:03
Speaker 1: very crazy. Um, but it kind of underscores a growing
10:06
Speaker 1: awareness among motion sickness researchers a K that the evil
10:11
Speaker 1: ones um that genetics play a big role in susceptibility
10:16
Speaker 1: to motion sickness. Well, yeah, because there were another couple
10:19
Speaker 1: of findings that lend to that. UM. Twins. They study
10:23
Speaker 1: two hundred sets of identical twins, and one percent of
10:28
Speaker 1: the identical twins were both affected. Um. Yeah, and some
10:32
Speaker 1: of that, you know, they can't prove that it's genetics
10:35
Speaker 1: because it also could be the uh just where they
10:39
Speaker 1: were raised and how were they were raised. What's it
10:41
Speaker 1: called uh nurture environment environment environmental um. And if parents
10:48
Speaker 1: are both susceptible to motion sickness, they found that their
10:52
Speaker 1: children are five times more likely. So it's sort of
10:55
Speaker 1: points to genetics. But then other things point away from genetics,
10:59
Speaker 1: like why why would you know two people in the
11:04
Speaker 1: same family in the same conditions not get sick? Or
11:09
Speaker 1: why did why why did two people period not get
11:11
Speaker 1: sick under the same conditions. Yeah, Like, I guess what
11:15
Speaker 1: I'm saying, salami socks smell same backwards facing seat. Yeah,
11:20
Speaker 1: I guess what I'm saying is they haven't figured it out, No,
11:22
Speaker 1: they haven't. But if we do figure out that it's genetic,
11:25
Speaker 1: thanks to the magic of the Crisper Casts nine gene
11:28
Speaker 1: editing process to be able to knock that right out
11:32
Speaker 1: for you, what else is pregnant? Yeah, pregnant women are
11:35
Speaker 1: more susceptible to it. Um, women who are menstruating, I
11:39
Speaker 1: think also are, and people who get migraines are more susceptible.
11:44
Speaker 1: And then people who sleep poorly are more susceptible to
11:47
Speaker 1: um uh. Motion sickness. Yeah, it says if you're prone
11:51
Speaker 1: to nausea or vomiting, but I don't know if that's like,
11:54
Speaker 1: that's sort of a chicken or the egg thing. Well,
11:57
Speaker 1: we're gonna get into again. We said science as to
12:00
Speaker 1: understand exactly what's going on here. But there's some good theories.
12:03
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about them right after, so chuck, Yeah,
12:32
Speaker 1: let's talk about some theories for motion sickness because it's
12:36
Speaker 1: kind of two Yeah. I saw I think it was
12:39
Speaker 1: this Atlantic article you sent. It's not so much um,
12:44
Speaker 1: it's not so much science. It's a debate over you know,
12:49
Speaker 1: the likelier explanation, but they actually kind of fit together.
12:52
Speaker 1: I think so, but if you ask the people, apparently
12:54
Speaker 1: the author in the Atlantic, Uh, it's called the Mysterious
12:58
Speaker 1: Science Emotion Sickness. He's sort of pokes fun a little bit.
13:02
Speaker 1: He's like, to me, they sound sort of the same.
13:03
Speaker 1: But don't tell that to those people who believe one
13:06
Speaker 1: or the other, because they're like, no, they're nothing like
13:07
Speaker 1: each other. She Julie beck I was that, who wasn't nice? Job,
13:12
Speaker 1: Julie good article. Um, pat on the back for you,
13:16
Speaker 1: cold star. So, uh, here's the first one is and
13:20
Speaker 1: this one. They both make a lot of sense to me. Um. Basically,
13:24
Speaker 1: there's a dissonance between the parts of your body that
13:28
Speaker 1: sense motion. Right, that's the easiest way to say it.
13:31
Speaker 1: It's called the sensory conflict theory. To get dryballs. Yeah,
13:36
Speaker 1: that it senses motion. It's it's weird if you think
13:39
Speaker 1: about your eyes doing that, but that's one of the
13:41
Speaker 1: roles that they play in motion. You also have the
13:45
Speaker 1: vestibular system, which is centered around your inner ear, and
13:48
Speaker 1: that definitely senses motion, movement, acceleration, gravity. Uh. And then
13:54
Speaker 1: you have all the sensors, the sensors and like your
13:57
Speaker 1: muscles and joints and stuff, right, Yeah, I didn't really
13:59
Speaker 1: think about that is being one, but for sure, like
14:02
Speaker 1: your body actually feels it. Yeah, well, think about it,
14:05
Speaker 1: like if you if you feel yourself kind of moving backward,
14:10
Speaker 1: you're definitely sensing it through your inner ear, but you
14:12
Speaker 1: can also feel it in your feet as well, and
14:14
Speaker 1: they're sending a a bulletin to your brain saying, lean forward, dummy,
14:20
Speaker 1: you're gonna fall back. What's your problem? Friend? So, this
14:25
Speaker 1: dissonance occurs when basically, like let's say you're sitting in
14:28
Speaker 1: a movie theater like an IMAX and it's a scene
14:32
Speaker 1: where you're you're flying with Superman or something like. You're
14:35
Speaker 1: seeing this with your eyeballs like a first person perspective
14:39
Speaker 1: shot of flight, but you're sitting in your seat, so
14:43
Speaker 1: your eyes are saying you're flying and your butts going
14:45
Speaker 1: you're sitting here and your brains like a witch. Yeah,
14:49
Speaker 1: pretty much witchcraft. Uh. So it creates this, This creates
14:54
Speaker 1: motion sickness. That's when the uh, nausea might kick in, dizziness, uh,
14:58
Speaker 1: those cold sweats, salivation. I like how the the author
15:02
Speaker 1: of the house Stuff Works article pointed out she specifically
15:05
Speaker 1: mentioned Avatar. Yeah, who is the dude? Um? The the
15:11
Speaker 1: guy who was like the friend on the Flight of
15:13
Speaker 1: the Concords Mary. No, the other dude, the guy who
15:18
Speaker 1: worked in the pond. Yeah, yeah, oh man, what is
15:21
Speaker 1: his name? It's not Range Parker, Arrange Parker, Yes, it was.
15:24
Speaker 1: I always want to call him Boslerman. I know it's
15:26
Speaker 1: definitely not the same dude Parker. You mean. I went
15:29
Speaker 1: to go see him. He did some stand up, right,
15:31
Speaker 1: and he was talking about Avatar, and he said, when
15:33
Speaker 1: it first came up, people like, oh, Avatar, have you
15:35
Speaker 1: seen Avatar? Yea great And then like everything you heard
15:38
Speaker 1: was have you seen Avatar? You gotta see Avatar, you said,
15:40
Speaker 1: like after a couple of weeks, you'd just be walking
15:42
Speaker 1: down the sidewalk and people would pull up alongside you
15:45
Speaker 1: in your car and roll down the window and go Avatar.
15:48
Speaker 1: And this is I think a great example of that. Well,
15:51
Speaker 1: it's interesting. I posted an article on Facebook not too
15:54
Speaker 1: long ago on the Stuff you Should Know page about
15:56
Speaker 1: this person wrote an article about Avatar and the argument
16:00
Speaker 1: was that it for such a huge movie, it had
16:03
Speaker 1: like zero cultural impact, Like it was big at the time,
16:08
Speaker 1: but does anyone care now, Like it's not like the
16:11
Speaker 1: Star Wars World or Star Treker, all these things, and
16:13
Speaker 1: I totally agreed. I saw Avatar once and I was like,
16:17
Speaker 1: I'm done with it. Typical James Cameron schlock. I've seen
16:20
Speaker 1: it zero times. No, that sucks, But dude, there are
16:24
Speaker 1: Avatar people though, that piled on and we're like, what's
16:28
Speaker 1: god no idea what he's talking about? It's totally relevant. Oh,
16:31
Speaker 1: I'm sure they're gonna be all over Facebook page after
16:33
Speaker 1: this episode comes out. Hey, Chuck forever. Now, I like
16:37
Speaker 1: some of James Cameron stuff, but if he wrote the script,
16:40
Speaker 1: then it's I'm not gonna like it. No, I know
16:44
Speaker 1: what you mean. I think he's a hack writer. Yeah.
16:48
Speaker 1: Did I just say that two hundreds of thousands of people? Yeah,
16:51
Speaker 1: And I'm sure James Cameron cares what you think. He's
16:53
Speaker 1: at the bottom of the Marianna Trench right now. He's not.
16:58
Speaker 1: He's picking out my future burial site. So um, Chuck,
17:02
Speaker 1: we're talking about the century conflict theory, right, that's one
17:07
Speaker 1: big explanation, and it definitely kind of makes sense. Right.
17:10
Speaker 1: Your your brain just basically gets overloaded and it's like, oh,
17:13
Speaker 1: I need to sit down. I've got the vapors, right,
17:17
Speaker 1: I'm doing a lot of bad impressions in this episode
17:20
Speaker 1: was supposed to be uh, somebody fainting in the late
17:24
Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Oh, no, it's great. So it was your
17:27
Speaker 1: arch Parker fop. That's what it was. It was a
17:29
Speaker 1: fop the dandy popping. There's another competing idea, and that is, UM,
17:36
Speaker 1: we kind of talked about. UM. It's called sway theory. Yeah.
17:41
Speaker 1: And there's a dude, h Thomas uh staff or staff Regin.
17:47
Speaker 1: I'm going with the gin s University of University of Minnesota,
17:55
Speaker 1: Professor of Kinesiology and listen to this. He's the director
17:59
Speaker 1: of it Affordance Perception Action Laboratory NERD. He gets motion
18:05
Speaker 1: sickness looking through microscope. UM. So he proposes the sway
18:11
Speaker 1: theory UM, which basically has nothing to do with the
18:15
Speaker 1: vestibular system. He said. He says that I don't I
18:18
Speaker 1: don't necessarily agree with that, but okay, I agree that
18:21
Speaker 1: he thinks that. No, I know that he thinks that
18:23
Speaker 1: I don't agree with that his take on that. Agree.
18:25
Speaker 1: I think it's still tied together. But his theory is
18:28
Speaker 1: and this first part isn't theory. It's true is that
18:30
Speaker 1: everyone sways like unless you're one of those uh people
18:34
Speaker 1: that stand like motionless in the middle of New Orleans
18:38
Speaker 1: for money. M hmm, yeah, silver or something like that. Yeah,
18:42
Speaker 1: they're good, they're good at it. But if you're just
18:45
Speaker 1: a regular dope like you and I, when we stand there,
18:47
Speaker 1: we're gonna be moving in a little bit. Yeah, you
18:50
Speaker 1: mean swaying a little bit. It's weird, like if you
18:53
Speaker 1: stop and like really pay attention to it. Yeah, you
18:56
Speaker 1: you notice it, but you'll never notice it unless you
18:59
Speaker 1: are focused on that. Yeah, you're always moving a little bit. Yeah, swaying.
19:02
Speaker 1: If you're standing up, you're swaying for the most part. Yes.
19:06
Speaker 1: And the point he makes is if everyone truly relaxed
19:08
Speaker 1: every muscle in their body, they'd fall over. Right. So
19:11
Speaker 1: the whole point, the whole thing is swaying is it's
19:13
Speaker 1: the byproduct of us standing upright, which is not something
19:16
Speaker 1: we've been doing for all of the time we've been
19:20
Speaker 1: on earth, because we evolved from things that walked on
19:24
Speaker 1: four legs. Standing up is kind of new. Well, sure,
19:27
Speaker 1: and babies don't stand up, they have to, yeah, exactly.
19:31
Speaker 1: So um Stoffordgin's whole idea is that motion sickness comes
19:36
Speaker 1: about when you have um when you're exposed to movement
19:42
Speaker 1: that contradicts the natural um swaying that you've learned to
19:48
Speaker 1: do to stand upright right, and it undermines it, and
19:52
Speaker 1: your brain goes Which makes sense in a way because
19:55
Speaker 1: let's say you're on a boat and the boat's tilting
19:58
Speaker 1: to the left, and so what you're feet do, or
20:01
Speaker 1: you know, they account for that, and maybe you lean
20:05
Speaker 1: in on the inside of your foot and your toes
20:06
Speaker 1: flex so because you want to make yourself more upright again.
20:10
Speaker 1: And then the boat turns again in a direction you're
20:13
Speaker 1: not expecting. You're correcting for that first move, the second
20:16
Speaker 1: move happens, and your body doesn't know what to do.
20:19
Speaker 1: So here's the thing. The the sensory conflict one makes
20:24
Speaker 1: a little more sense to me than this one, because
20:28
Speaker 1: that sounds to me like if that if that were
20:30
Speaker 1: the case, if that's what's going on, and it clearly is.
20:32
Speaker 1: Like when it's when you get your sea legs or
20:35
Speaker 1: whatever um you you you were moving along, you're trying
20:39
Speaker 1: to stay standing under these weird conditions, why would that
20:43
Speaker 1: translate into something like dizziness or nausea or vomiting or
20:47
Speaker 1: cold sweats that doesn't make sense to me. Sensory conflict
20:51
Speaker 1: I can see translating into it. But even beyond that,
20:54
Speaker 1: a lot of people are like, no, that doesn't Still,
20:55
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense why you would vomit. And this
20:58
Speaker 1: one guy named um Michael Easman seven came up with
21:02
Speaker 1: a pretty awesome explanation for why we should get nauseated
21:06
Speaker 1: when we get motion sick right. Well, yeah, should we
21:08
Speaker 1: take a break and talk about that? Oh all right,
21:35
Speaker 1: Josh Michael Treatman seven in the journal Science. What did
21:39
Speaker 1: he say? Oh? He said that we get nauseated from
21:43
Speaker 1: motion sickness because over there are some toxins out there
21:48
Speaker 1: that can mess with our vestibular system. Right, yes, So
21:52
Speaker 1: the body is tricked into thinking that it's possibly been
21:56
Speaker 1: exposed to some sort of toxin because the vestibular vestibular
22:00
Speaker 1: system is out of whack from motion sickness, So it
22:03
Speaker 1: gets nauseated and ultimately might vomit as a reflex to
22:07
Speaker 1: get rid of whatever toxin it thinks has been ingested.
22:11
Speaker 1: It's basically a case of mistaken identity. I think it
22:15
Speaker 1: explained it perfectly. It makes sense to me. I could
22:18
Speaker 1: see a little bit. I think what Um what staff
22:21
Speaker 1: Regin is saying is that you're you're used to regaining
22:25
Speaker 1: your balance. You spend your entire life learning this system,
22:28
Speaker 1: and that if it's thrown off, what he doesn't do
22:32
Speaker 1: is connect it. I believe, I believe you're right. He
22:35
Speaker 1: doesn't connect it in the end to like something that
22:37
Speaker 1: happens in your brain, right, the the why the physiological
22:41
Speaker 1: reaction agreed. Yeah, but he does have some pretty good
22:45
Speaker 1: evidence backing his idea of sway theory up though. Um,
22:49
Speaker 1: so again, women are more susceptible to um to motion
22:55
Speaker 1: sickness than men. Right, Yes, that's what they say. Well,
22:57
Speaker 1: he says, ah, Well, Sway theory explains that um, kids
23:01
Speaker 1: are equally susceptible to both genders are equally susceptible to
23:05
Speaker 1: motion sickness before puberty. Then after puberty, the bodies change
23:10
Speaker 1: and where um, women and men hold most of their
23:13
Speaker 1: weight is different. Right, Women hold it mostly around their hips.
23:18
Speaker 1: Men hold it more around their chest, and that means
23:20
Speaker 1: that the center of gravity is different, which means the
23:23
Speaker 1: amount that we sway is different. Right yeah, I think Uh?
23:28
Speaker 1: Who does he say sways? Women's way farther but slower,
23:32
Speaker 1: but slower Men's sway faster but within a tighter area.
23:37
Speaker 1: And and these are micro sways. Yeah, I mean I
23:40
Speaker 1: think that like most people move no more than like
23:42
Speaker 1: an inch to any given side. And even then you're
23:46
Speaker 1: like Barney on the Simpsons when he walked out for
23:48
Speaker 1: that like bachelor um auction. Uh. Then there's also landsickness,
23:56
Speaker 1: which is interesting. Yeah. I didn't look too much into it,
23:59
Speaker 1: but I have heard of it, which is basically the
24:01
Speaker 1: concept that if you're a sailor, then you've gotten or
24:05
Speaker 1: you know, just somebody who's been on boats enough. You
24:09
Speaker 1: don't have to be a professional. Um, you get your
24:12
Speaker 1: sea legs so well that you get landsickness. Yeah. When
24:16
Speaker 1: you get back, Yeah, and you're on solid ground, you're like,
24:18
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do, right because your your
24:21
Speaker 1: brain so used to things moving that it perceives that
24:24
Speaker 1: it's moving even though it's not. You want to say
24:26
Speaker 1: the French name for it, mild barkmant let me look,
24:33
Speaker 1: I wasn't even looking. That was you forgot the middle part.
24:37
Speaker 1: There's a qui in the middle, so maybe mal de
24:39
Speaker 1: bark uman, I said, Mel debarkmon Mel debarkmall barkman barbecue
24:47
Speaker 1: mal I love that when we do this stuff, there's
24:50
Speaker 1: it's probably literally fi people laughing and people want to
24:54
Speaker 1: kill us. Yeah, you know, yeah, a lot of people
24:58
Speaker 1: want to kill us. Can about as long as they
25:02
Speaker 1: never do alright, So, um, should we go over some
25:06
Speaker 1: some things that you can do? Because I mean that
25:10
Speaker 1: that whole segment on what explains most of the sickness
25:13
Speaker 1: kind of petered out. But that's the state of science
25:16
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, although they will say they have looked
25:19
Speaker 1: at the twenty three in me um for the genetic
25:24
Speaker 1: side and have found some support for both claims. I
25:28
Speaker 1: think that they're together. Like I think, if yes, your
25:32
Speaker 1: your swaying system is set up in a certain way,
25:35
Speaker 1: and why can't that be a component that, along with
25:38
Speaker 1: the vestibular system and your site and all that um
25:42
Speaker 1: is affected and creates motion sickness. I just don't understand
25:46
Speaker 1: why it has to be one or the other. That's
25:47
Speaker 1: the impression that I had he was trying to really
25:50
Speaker 1: come get across, is that it's no, it's its own thing.
25:54
Speaker 1: I think that's weird. So what do you what do
25:57
Speaker 1: you go to if you get motion sick Well, they
25:59
Speaker 1: say to keep your eyes on the horizon, whether you're
26:02
Speaker 1: in a car or a boat or whatever, that that
26:04
Speaker 1: will help cuts down on motion, right or the sensation
26:09
Speaker 1: of motion. I'm not sure. I think so because think
26:12
Speaker 1: about it. When you look at stuff that's close to
26:14
Speaker 1: the car, it's blurring the horizon, sting. Yeah, constant look
26:20
Speaker 1: at you. Um, keep your head still so you can
26:23
Speaker 1: lay down if you're able to somewhere, um or at
26:27
Speaker 1: least put your head back against the seat. Just sort
26:29
Speaker 1: of keep it as still as possible. Don't smoke. Sure,
26:33
Speaker 1: they say it's just good advice all around exactly. Um,
26:37
Speaker 1: if you're gonna fly, they say to avoid big, greasy
26:40
Speaker 1: meals and alcohol the night before and eat light meals
26:43
Speaker 1: or snacks low in calories the day of. But yeah,
26:47
Speaker 1: you do want to have something in your stomach, though,
26:50
Speaker 1: because that's just gonna help empty stomach. No good turn
26:53
Speaker 1: that air vent. Whether you're in your car or a
26:55
Speaker 1: plane or a boat, you need want some fresh air
26:57
Speaker 1: blowing on your face, ideally or at least cycled air
27:02
Speaker 1: felt this bed sinstead. It need to brank hunt uh,
27:06
Speaker 1: sit in the front of the airplane or over a wing. Supposedly, yeah,
27:10
Speaker 1: the rear of the airplane. Oh man, you just get
27:14
Speaker 1: whipped around back, and it's way worse if you get
27:17
Speaker 1: motion sick You should never sit behind the the wings
27:22
Speaker 1: of the airplane. See I love the last car of
27:24
Speaker 1: a roller coaster though, Well, yeah, you're feeling it more,
27:27
Speaker 1: you're enjoying it more. You don't get motion sick. Um
27:31
Speaker 1: what else? Avoid salty foods before you travel. There's also
27:35
Speaker 1: remedies too, right, So the jury is out on whether
27:38
Speaker 1: ginger actually helps or not, or if it's just the
27:41
Speaker 1: placebo effect. Ginger, peppermint, and black horehound apparently are some
27:46
Speaker 1: of the herbs that may or may not work. Who knows. UM,
27:50
Speaker 1: I can tell you firsthand, and I looked it up.
27:53
Speaker 1: See bands actu pressure bracelets that go on your wrist
27:58
Speaker 1: three fingers with down from the heel of your palm,
28:01
Speaker 1: the pairicardium six so the acupuncture point. I saw research
28:07
Speaker 1: that showed that UM, neither placebo nor acupressure bands had
28:11
Speaker 1: any effect on motion sickness. I can tell you that
28:14
Speaker 1: even if it is just placebo, they still work firsthand.
28:19
Speaker 1: They work alright, even if it's placebo. I don't care.
28:22
Speaker 1: That's fine as long as it keeps me from being motionsick. Yeah. Yeah,
28:26
Speaker 1: it kept me and you me from being motion sick
28:28
Speaker 1: on an entire cruise. But would you have been motion
28:31
Speaker 1: sick without it? Yeah, because we had We didn't use
28:34
Speaker 1: it for one day and we felt immediately. Yeah, Um,
28:38
Speaker 1: I brought one on my only cruise that I went
28:41
Speaker 1: to and uh, I don't think I work because I
28:44
Speaker 1: didn't need to. We had like divots on our risk
28:46
Speaker 1: because we just come on like the whole the time. Yeah,
28:48
Speaker 1: you should bring it just in case. Yeah. Sure. We
28:51
Speaker 1: also had scope al amin and we didn't even use
28:54
Speaker 1: it because the c bands work so well. Drama meine,
28:56
Speaker 1: is that the same thing or different? Scope ala mean?
28:58
Speaker 1: Is that stuff that like eight um drug people with
29:02
Speaker 1: and then uh, it's like remember in our truths Herem
29:05
Speaker 1: episode we talked about scope limit. It's like a drug
29:08
Speaker 1: in South America where they'll they'll dose you with it
29:11
Speaker 1: and then you end up like just basically becoming zombified
29:13
Speaker 1: and don't remember anything. It's the same stuff, but it
29:17
Speaker 1: doles the messages from your inner ear to your brain,
29:21
Speaker 1: so your sensation of motion is decreased. Homeopathy, there haven't
29:27
Speaker 1: been a ton of studies about the effective effectiveness of
29:30
Speaker 1: specific remedies. But they do say things like borax, coculus, petroleum, tabacum. Dude,
29:41
Speaker 1: So we're gonna hear from so many people just for
29:43
Speaker 1: having even uttered the word homeopathy. Does that I say
29:47
Speaker 1: it homeopathy? No? It goes both ways. Um, yeah, I know.
29:51
Speaker 1: I mean, nothing drives people more crazy than that. They're
29:54
Speaker 1: gonna go desert mark my word because it's not you know, well,
30:00
Speaker 1: well I said that that take it or leave it. Basically,
30:05
Speaker 1: some people swear by it, yeah, and some people think
30:10
Speaker 1: it's uh too. From what I have ever seen, it's
30:13
Speaker 1: like the biggest flashpoint, uh like of anything, of anything
30:17
Speaker 1: at Skeptics talk about nothing drives them crazier than than homeopathy.
30:22
Speaker 1: Ye like makes them nuts. It's kind of funny to
30:24
Speaker 1: watch it does, because then you people say you shouldn't
30:27
Speaker 1: even say western versus Eastern medicine. You should say proven
30:30
Speaker 1: science versus like witchcraft. Who did the people say that?
30:34
Speaker 1: On Facebook? Yeah, they get really like, you shouldn't even
30:37
Speaker 1: say I don't even see it. I said you can't
30:40
Speaker 1: say it, don't even say it? Josh? Um what else? Yeah,
30:47
Speaker 1: I'm making fun of you. Mind body medicine, biofeedback training
30:52
Speaker 1: and relaxation. They did a study of fifty pilots UM
30:56
Speaker 1: who had to stop flying due to motion sickness, which,
31:00
Speaker 1: by the way, I didn't know that, Like that frightens
31:02
Speaker 1: me just knowing that that a pilot can get most
31:05
Speaker 1: but think about it. For the pilot, it's like career ending,
31:08
Speaker 1: you know. Um, seventy of them got over their motion
31:11
Speaker 1: sickness and we're able to return to work after biofeedback
31:14
Speaker 1: training and relaxation programs. So basically they sit in that
31:17
Speaker 1: tilt a whirl, bring it on, and then biofeedback instruments
31:21
Speaker 1: record uh, temperature, muscle tension, and they use relaxation techniques
31:27
Speaker 1: uh and mental imagery in the chair and over time,
31:30
Speaker 1: it's sort of like cognitive behavioral therapy, which is another
31:33
Speaker 1: thing that they use, which is like, you know, get
31:36
Speaker 1: in the chair and do it until it doesn't affect you.
31:40
Speaker 1: An exposure therapy, right yeah. Um. There's this guy named
31:43
Speaker 1: Sam Puma who's a physician and aeronautics engineer. I think
31:48
Speaker 1: maybe at the very least, he's worked in the aerospace
31:50
Speaker 1: industry for a really long time, and he has come
31:53
Speaker 1: up with some habituation exercises where basically you kind of
31:57
Speaker 1: mildly expose your body to the kind of move mints
32:00
Speaker 1: it's going to expect on like a space shuttle or
32:03
Speaker 1: whatever ahead of your trip, and you can he says,
32:06
Speaker 1: you can be prepared and not have any emotion sickness
32:09
Speaker 1: and as little as a week. Yeah, and I guess
32:13
Speaker 1: it checks out, Yeah, because it sounds like, you know,
32:18
Speaker 1: come on, what's this guy selling me? Right? But then
32:20
Speaker 1: the Atlantic author she said, you know, no, apparently it's
32:23
Speaker 1: a real thing. Uh. And then another good tip that
32:26
Speaker 1: I saw was, if you're in a car and you're
32:29
Speaker 1: not driving, pretend like you're driving. You might feel silly,
32:32
Speaker 1: but you know, pretend like you're driving. Maybe even do
32:34
Speaker 1: your hands and anticipate the curbs and things. Maybe give
32:39
Speaker 1: him a little horn, a little imaginary horn once an ord. Uh. Yeah.
32:45
Speaker 1: The reason why the best seat in the car is
32:48
Speaker 1: the drivers because you can anticipate the movements the car
32:50
Speaker 1: is gonna make, which supports sway theory if you think
32:53
Speaker 1: about it, true because you can counteract it. Do you
32:57
Speaker 1: ever have one of those passengers in your car that
32:59
Speaker 1: hits the break because they're nervous. It's like, I just
33:03
Speaker 1: an involuntary action. You seem stumped their foot on the floorboard.
33:06
Speaker 1: It's pretty funny. I have one friend in particular that
33:09
Speaker 1: does that. Uh, let's see. I guess that's it, right.
33:14
Speaker 1: I got nothing else. Um, if you want to learn
33:18
Speaker 1: more about motion sickness, you can type those words in
33:21
Speaker 1: the search part how stuff works dot com. And since
33:24
Speaker 1: I said search bar, it's time for the listener mayo,
33:29
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call this uh Bonsai to two. Hey, guys,
33:34
Speaker 1: love the show. I'm a twotoo maker who new but
33:39
Speaker 1: you know somebody makes them. Sure they don't just grow
33:42
Speaker 1: on trees, not anymore. I'm a two two maker and
33:45
Speaker 1: work alone in my studio a lot making two tooos
33:47
Speaker 1: and you guys are my company and thank you for that.
33:49
Speaker 1: Also have a Bachelor of Science and ornamental horticulture. So
33:53
Speaker 1: listening to the bonsai episode reminded me of an experience
33:56
Speaker 1: ad with a bonsai master in a class I had
33:59
Speaker 1: in college. The professor covered the art of bonsai. Leading
34:03
Speaker 1: up to this man's visit. He covered the art, particulous
34:06
Speaker 1: decisions made in the shaping of the tree, et cetera.
34:08
Speaker 1: The day came when the master was there to speak
34:10
Speaker 1: with us. It came into class, and all of his
34:12
Speaker 1: amazing work was displayed around the classroom. It was really beautiful.
34:16
Speaker 1: Everyone sort of spoke about it in touchstones, very reverent
34:19
Speaker 1: to each other. Finally, the master, who was a rather
34:22
Speaker 1: tiny Japanese man, was ready to demonstrate the technique for us.
34:25
Speaker 1: He unpotted the plant in front of him, spoke about
34:28
Speaker 1: the shape and what he felt would be the best
34:30
Speaker 1: way to train it. And after this, he pulled out
34:32
Speaker 1: a club the size of a baseball bat and beat
34:35
Speaker 1: the crap out of the root ball, explaining the need
34:37
Speaker 1: to control the plant, and no one knew exactly how
34:41
Speaker 1: to recapt I had not thought about that for a
34:44
Speaker 1: really long time, and I listened to the show chuckling
34:46
Speaker 1: the whole time because of it. I thought you might
34:48
Speaker 1: appreciate the story that is from Nancy Gallagher, the two
34:51
Speaker 1: Tuo maker. Well thanks a lot, Nancy. Uh. Maybe he
34:55
Speaker 1: was just trying to get the dirt away from the roots,
34:57
Speaker 1: I don't know, or maybe it was bad Bonsai. Mr
35:02
Speaker 1: Miyagi would never do that. I worked with Pat Marita.
35:05
Speaker 1: Did I mention that on the show? Was it? He
35:08
Speaker 1: did a music video that I worked on, the Karate
35:12
Speaker 1: Kid spoof? Oh oh, yeah, alien Ant Farm and I
35:16
Speaker 1: worked with him. He's super nice and it was just
35:18
Speaker 1: a couple of years. Whore he died. He's dead. Oh yeah,
35:23
Speaker 1: that's the shame. Yeah, he liked the white wine. Oh yeah,
35:27
Speaker 1: I think he told me the story for it. Sounds familiar.
35:30
Speaker 1: I had to go fetch him some chardonay like noon.
35:34
Speaker 1: I was like, you know what if that was Pat
35:35
Speaker 1: Marina on the side of the music video, sure, I'd
35:38
Speaker 1: be like, I'd have a p a fetch me some
35:39
Speaker 1: chardonnay do. Yeah. Remember he played Al the replacement Al
35:45
Speaker 1: l Happy case Arnold al was the name of the actor. Yeah,
35:49
Speaker 1: right from California at Marita. What was that to do
35:53
Speaker 1: with it? Nothing? Oh that was an additional fact. Yeah,
35:56
Speaker 1: I just I mean some people might see the Karate
35:58
Speaker 1: Kid and I only know that and and keys from Japan.
36:02
Speaker 1: But he was putting on that accident. Oh yeah, yeah,
36:05
Speaker 1: he's a California dude, totally. Yeah, like laid back kind
36:08
Speaker 1: of shardonay guy. If you want to know more about
36:11
Speaker 1: Pat Morita or get in touch of this or whatever,
36:13
Speaker 1: you can send off for more info to s Y
36:16
Speaker 1: s K podcast on Twitter or on Instagram. You can
36:19
Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com, slash stuff you Should Know.
36:22
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36:24
Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us
36:26
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36:28
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36:37
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