Latest / Made, Not Found / You Don't Lose Yourself All at Once

Transcript

You Don't Lose Yourself All at Once · Made, Not Found

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_05: After maybe three nights in a row of me drinking a full bottle of wine on the couch by myself and cracking up at nothing, that you like noticed that I had lost myself.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Not like I completely lost myself, but I felt like I had to put myself on the shelf a little bit, right?
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: I had to like put my needs stuck into our baby's name.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: So there was time where I was like literally to do my own work to figure out who am I?
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: Am I enough without anybody telling me that you're doing a good job?
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_05: Unfortunately, I didn't take the action.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't do what needed to be done, and so therefore it was done to me.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_00: Which I guess is the ongoing question of what parts of yourself have you lost, or are there any?
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know who are you trying to show up at?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Made Not Found.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: We believe the best lives aren't found, they're built.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: One real conversation at a time.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_05: Haley's gonna crack up.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: So when we were talking on our first episode, you had talked very, very briefly about losing yourself and how you had lost yourself for a period of time.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: And we didn't elaborate on that at all.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was thinking about it afterwards, thinking that I imagine that a lot of people can resonate with that, feeling like you lost yourself or part of yourself at one point.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: And so I wanted to go back to that topic and specifically, you know, why and how you lost yourself, but also did you even realize you were lost during that time?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I guess to make the conversation complete, was there ever a time, and we didn't talk about it, but was there ever a time that you feel like you lost yourself?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna reverse the question of me already?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_05: No, I'm just asking to frame it up so I know where to go.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like if I lost myself or if I noticed you were lost?
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_05: If you ever lost yourself, or if you maybe feel like you hadn't found yourself at some point.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay, so you want me to go first?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_05: No, I don't want you to go first.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_05: But yes or no?
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the short answer would be yes.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so so for me, um no, I didn't realize that I had lost myself, and I don't think I would use would have used those words.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_05: It was when sort of set the stage.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_05: It was uh how many years into probably five years into fusion or four loco.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you would say only five?
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_05: Well, that was probably 2010, it was 2012 essentially when I was fired.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, probably five years in.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_05: And and I mean I knew, you know, the I knew things didn't feel right.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_05: Um I could say, looking externally, it was pressures on the company, it was pressures on the partnership, things like that.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_05: But it wasn't until somewhere around 2012, I think, when you told me, after maybe three nights in a row of me drinking a full bottle of wine on the couch by myself and and cracking up at nothing, right?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_05: Laughing at nothing, that you that you like noticed that I had lost myself, that I wasn't myself.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that how you remember It was later than that, I think, because I think that both the I think Maddox was born at that point also.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: But um 100% I remember having a conversation with you.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, I remember it being in the car when I first brought up moving.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_05: And you you you remember those conversations being the same time?
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that doesn't mean it's accurate.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: But what I remember is that was the first time being like you have not been yourself for two years.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_05: So regardless of when it actually happened, it was these like series of events, I think, that were leading up to the same idea, which was that I had like I hadn't been myself.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it was you who put it in context for me that it had been two years.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_05: Because I could have easily gotten around the idea of like, I maybe lost my way these past six months, but the realization that it had been so long like was really impactful.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_05: Which made me kind of step back and look at well, like how did I lose myself, in what way?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_05: And I think the the reality was a little more shocking than maybe even you would have thought, because I realized I lost myself in many ways, whether that meant missing transitions in my life, meaning we went from or I went from, you know, dating, but single in the sense of not married, to a married person, married man, um, went from being without kids to now a dad, and then went from um, you know, kind of a survival mentality in most of my life to like a bit of an abundance, not a bit, an abundance situation.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_05: And I had missed all those transitions, and therefore I think I was just floundering with who I was, right, in all those aspects.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: What do you mean by that, miss those transitions?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I mean, we talked a bit about it last one, uh last episode, like uh missed the transition of marriage where I was still out like where I was still out like acting like a single guy, whether that was just being at the bar with my friends or whether that was being unfaithful.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_05: It was like I didn't settle into this idea of what it was to now be married, right?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: I hadn't like killed the ego of the bachelor yet.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_05: And when when it was the transition of a dad, like I think I was still trying to like silly examples would be, you know, we talked about our friend being on vacation and still planning the vacation as if he didn't have kids with them, right?
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_05: Like my my mentality was we're doing things um as if we don't have kids, but we did.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_05: And with the business, I think there was a maturity that was needed um at the stage of the business that we were that I didn't have, or confidence that I then didn't have.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_05: And so those were all things when I reflected on your comment about having lost myself that I realized like it was kind of worse than I than I thought.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And was that a hard realization?
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it was it was it didn't happen at one moment.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_05: I think it was starting to unravel or reveal itself over time.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_05: And then I think the moment that I woke up and got an email that I was fired from and removed from the company that I had started, like that was earth-shattering in many ways and made me examine every aspect of it.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_05: And in retrospect, the best thing that ever could happen because it forced me to go searching on like every aspect of who was I.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: I wasn't the four loco guy now, I was Chris.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_05: I wasn't um the guy who had to be in the office every day.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: I had options, I was you know questioning and discovering everything.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: And if you remember that journey, like I was uh I remember you made a comment like you're busier now than you were when you had a job.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because I refused to just sit around, and so I would go to the gym, I would go to Soho House, I would take meetings, and it was eye-opening to realize that there was this bigger world out there, there were all these opportunities, and kind of that started to reshape how I found myself fitting into the world, which then started to help crystallize maybe who I was.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: That makes sense.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think if I hadn't pointed out that you hadn't been yourself for two years, that you would have gotten stuck in it longer?
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_05: I don't think I would have started to um ask myself the questions or explore uh the world, I guess, in general, as much as I did at that moment.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_05: I think the earth shattering moment was being fired from the company.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_05: But if you remember, we were already on the path of making a lot of changes.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_05: We were so you when you had said that, I remember the next thing that happened or the next memory that I have was we went back to Columbus for an Ohio State game, and we told on our drive back, we told or we decided we were gonna move to California.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_05: And we told some friends that.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: We did.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_05: And this was before, you know before you got fired.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_05: Me getting fired.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_05: So I think we were already in this like mode of let's help him find himself.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_05: And I I think you were in that let's let's help him rather than just letting me find myself.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was willing to do whatever it took.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I was like, we have to change something, like, this is not working.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and and and when you mentioned maybe let's move to California as an option, we had always talked about after kids getting closer to family, going back to Ohio.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_05: So it was another eye-opening like moment for me of wow, we can really do whatever.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_05: And I think it probably helps strengthen us in the sense of we can go go do whatever.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_05: I so I think I would have um of I don't know that I would have used those words, but I think I would have been forced to get there anyways.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like when I ref when I reflect back on being fired, I think what I tell everybody is I know what needed to happen.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_05: I knew at that time what needed to happen, which was me and my partners not to be working together.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: And I would assume they would say the same thing.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_05: Unfortunately, I didn't take the action, I didn't do what needed to be done, and so therefore it was done to me.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_05: And that was an interesting discovery.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's so interesting looking back because I think that it really was like two years where you really were just not yourself and you weren't happy, and like, you know, lost yourself could mean a lot of different things, but like that's what I saw you.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: You just were just struggling for that time.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then when we talk about like finding yourself though, to me, and maybe you remember it differently, it was almost like immediate.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like you got fired, which was really hard, but also so freeing.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then you went and did ayahuasca like the next month.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and then I feel like from that point on you were just on this like positive trajectory, which is interesting because I feel like if you're in a place where you're lost and it's been a long time, that could probably feel like you don't know when it's ever gonna end, and how like scary and suffocating, and it's like when you're doing a marathon, but you don't know if it's ever gonna end, and just that's hard, right?
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe you remember it differently.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I almost remember like you coming back to yourself as like almost instantaneous in such an easy process.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't know that it was easy, I do feel like it was relief, is the word I would use because I felt trapped and suddenly I felt free.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_05: And so when I was free, I could explore all these different things, I could like listen and pay attention and follow what was being presented to me.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_05: So, you know, you mentioned ayahuasca, like how that came about was I was talking to people, I I realized that somebody else that I knew had been fired from a company similar to the way I had.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_05: And that was amazing because I felt like I was the only one that said it happened to.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_05: So to realize there was someone else, and then learning it was a very common thing that happened.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_05: So that was empowering.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_05: And then when I asked him, just being curious, like, what did you do?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_05: His answer was, Well, I took a couple months and traveled around the world, and I thought that was great, but we had kids at the time, and that wasn't gonna work for me.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_05: And he had told me about um going to Mexico and do an IBE game, which is a psychedelic as well.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_05: And his comment, parting comment of that conversation was, I think you should do ayahuasca.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_05: And I had no clue what that was.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_05: So that was the first thing, and then just kind of set it in the memory bank, and now I'm still exploring.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_05: And then I went out to Summit Series in Utah, and I was being very candid with people.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_05: I think I was trying to make it empowering to say I got fired because at first it it was not, it felt like embarrassing.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_05: And I remember uh riding a bus or a gondola or whatever we were doing with some people we had just met, and or that I had just met because you weren't on that trip, but I was with our buddy from Cleveland, and um and this guy saying, hearing my story, and he said, Well, what are you gonna do now?
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, I don't know.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: And I asked him, like, have you ever done ayahuasca or even heard of it?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_05: And he said, Oh my god, I can't believe you asked that.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_05: It changed my life.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_05: And he went on this exciting uh expl explanation of how he went with these 10 entrepreneurs to Peru and how this trip was amazing and how I should go, but they're sold out, and then another, like, okay, throw that in the memory bank, let's see what happens.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_05: And then later that night at dinner, him telling me that his one friend, you know, couldn't go anymore and there was a spot available.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_05: It was just it was destined to to unfold, and that was the beginning of finding myself.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_05: So I think I think coming back from Peru felt instant, right?
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's fair.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually I wasn't there with you, so to say that it was instant and easy is very much an observer's point of view.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know that that was hard work that you did there, but yeah, from my perspective, it felt like you you came back like more whole than you were before.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and I think that's probably fair.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_05: But I guess asking you about when you either may have lost yourself or weren't sure who you were, like I have never experienced you losing yourself like you did with me.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_05: And so I'd be interested to hear when when was that and what Yeah.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_05: How did you identify it?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that I guess I can't speak for every mother, but I think that as a mother, when you have children, you lose a part of yourself.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Because all of a sudden, and I chose to stay home with our kids, obviously that was a choice and a privilege, and I'm thankful for it.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: And all of a sudden, your your needs and your uh uh desires and everything that you want is second to whatever this baby needs 24 hours a day.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that that transition is just an interesting one that um it's interesting because you lose a part of yourself, but you also gain so much.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, those those children are mirrors and they teach you so much about yourself and your triggers and all of the things.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not like I completely lost myself, but I felt like I had to put myself on the shelf a little bit, right?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: I had to like put my needs second to our baby's needs, and there's just a reality to that to that.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think there was a point in time where I was struggling a little bit just with like my identity, right?
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was like you were a very successful businessman, and that immediately made you interesting, and and people wanted to talk to you and have conversations with you.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like I was just a stay-at-home mom.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that was an interesting time for me because I had to, I think, dig deep to figure out like who am I without any accolades, without any social endorsements, if you will, right?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's no credit there.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's no one cares that you're a k stay-at-home mom, really.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's not very interesting.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: No one really unless you have kids, they don't really ask questions.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's just a different, like isolating world.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so there was a time where I was like really had to do my own work to figure out who am I and am I enough without anybody telling me that you're doing a good job.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's I hear you say that, and it makes me think of of what I say to people, which I believe is true, is that people tend to maybe be exposed to if if their first exposure to us is through my business or businesses, they may be interested in me, but if we're going to dinner as a couple, they leave interested in you, which is always the way it happens.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell You love me, so that might be skewed.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_05: I think it's honestly true.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_05: And I bet if you ask the people that have been in that situation, they would say that.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_05: And so I guess the the question I have for you is when do you think then you got found yourself or got comfortable in your own skin and became that version of yourself?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: Aaron Powell Well, I think my story is very different than yours.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think that you grew up very confident and like, you know, when we first dated, you were just so secure in who you were, walked around like just so different than than me, right?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like you can say you I was uh I mean, you you know, you had a cocky.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: You were you were on the cocky side.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you were kind, so I feel like cocky can automatically mean asshole.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like I don't think you were ever an asshole, but you like you were just very much like you had a presence and you knew it and you were comfortable with that, and you walked in a room and like people knew you, and like there was just like an air that was very foreign to me.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like I have been on, instead of losing myself completely, like not completely, that's the wrong word, but like you had a different journey of losing yourself where I feel like I have been on a totally different journey of like figuring out who I am my whole life.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that at 45, I don't know what the next decade looks like.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'll get to be that, maybe I'll be the peacock in my 50s.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_00: But but this is the most comfortable I've ever been in my own skin.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: This is the most sure of myself, this is the most like I know myself now much better.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been more of a gradual understanding of who am I, and most importantly, like who did people tell me to be that I am choosing not to be anymore, right?
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like as a child, it was very much like I was told how to behave, and I was told, you know, what what to do, and I was expected to follow all of these rules and norms, and I was supposed to be nice and kind and that creates people pleasing and all of these things, right?
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_05: And so And things like you're the pretty one versus the the smart one.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like my brother was the smart one and I was the pretty one, and then that becomes your identity, and then you know, no one's pretty all the time, and so then that becomes like, well, who am I when I'm not pretty?
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and so yeah, so I think that for me it's been like about unlearning all of the things that I think society or culture told me that I was supposed to be, and instead figuring out who I am to be comfortable in my own skin, and that's been a gradual process that I'm definitely have not completed, but I've made a lot of progress.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_05: Do you do you feel like there's any moment you remember where you felt like you found your self or your confidence in yourself?
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know that there's one moment, but I think that there's pivotal things that build on that, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like things that um things as simple as like running a marathon because you're like become a whatever percent of the population that's run a marathon, and you're like, okay, like I'm capable, I can do this.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Or I mean working with coaches, I remember a coach once told me I was brave, and I'm like, I'm not brave.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I did not associate with being brave at all.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: And she was like explaining why she saw me as brave, and and then I think you know, probably part of this trajectory of marrying you is I have had so many opportunities to get over my own fears, and so I have had lots of opportunities to be brave, and so as those things build, you know, you start to become that.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's like starting a business or being here, being able to, you know, there's still a part of me that's like a more quiet part of me that's but still that's there, that's like, who cares?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: No one cares what you have to say, right?
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm here anyway, right?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's about that my whole life.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm I will still hear those voices and I'll still have those moments of fear or like wanting to shrink and be small and things, you know, people please, and all the things that I think that are deeply rooted in my core.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I've had so many opportunities to like listen and choose differently.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: It's so interesting to hear the the perception that people have.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_05: Um and then and then know the reality behind it.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_05: So you you said always had this confidence and this uh aura, I guess.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and I and I agree with that, but a lot of times that was like rooted in maybe self-consciousness or lack of confidence in an area.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_05: I remember in a different example, but I remember um early in COIA doing some negotiation and somebody saying, You're such a good negotiator.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_05: And I was laughing because I said I wasn't saying anything in my mind.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_05: I'm saying, I didn't see anything because I didn't know what the heck they were talking about.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_05: So I was like totally out of out of context and place.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_05: But the perception was that I was a good negotiator, I was really, really maybe confident in a position.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_05: And and so I think that's interesting because you start to build these uh examples, like you were saying, and sometimes they're external perceptions.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_05: That woman told you, or that coach, I don't know if it's a man or woman, but told you you were brave, and then you started to build these examples or understand these examples of that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_05: Someone told me I was a good negotiator.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_05: I said, Oh, maybe by being quiet I can be a better negotiator.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but you kind of build the story, and maybe that's how you figure out who you are, or maybe who you want to be.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think it can be both amazing and a blessing, or it can be such a curse and and really damaging, right?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I think we're very careful with our children not to be like, you're the artistic one, and you're the sporty one, and you're the smart one, because those are labels that they will then internalize and carry with them forever.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: And and and in all reality, we are all so many things, right?
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we are all we all are we're all creative in different ways and we're all smart.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Different way, it's raw, whatever.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so while it's like was a useful example of like her telling me it was brave, like was helpful for me.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess it would never that part could never be damaging, right?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like telling your child they're brave could never be damaging.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: But like labeling them or putting them in any kind of box is so damaging because like none of us fit in that box.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like if I've learned anything about myself, it's like I am this right now.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: And in five years from now, I don't even know what I'm gonna be, right?
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like at the core, I'm still me.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: But like right now I'm a founder of a supplement company.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: In 10 years, I might be a Reiki master.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know, right?
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's possible.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_05: But you can be all those things.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_05: I think I think one of the things, one of the things we learned over time with coaching was about these parts.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_05: And they can all exist.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_05: And you don't have to make them bad.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So hopefully.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_05: Like the comical one that we use for me is like I have this bit of probably from my upbringing, this bit of like loving drama.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_05: And so I named it RuPaul because there's like this dramatic part of me that loves the chaos of that's why sometimes I love listen listening to the girl talk with you and your your friends.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_05: But at the same time, I can be the businessman and I can be the dad version, and I can be the probably less often but doting husband version.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: We're working on that.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_05: We're working on that.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_05: Which I think is is interesting because I think that's really important for the kids, is like you don't have to be one thing.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_05: Like you can love football and you can love to you can be a musician.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_05: And you can be a wrestler and you can be in the choir.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_05: I'm I'm using obviously physical and art examples, but like all these things.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right, 100%.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_05: And any of them are fine.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_05: And it's interesting to watch our boys because there's a I don't know if it's modeled by us or if it's m modeled by society, but there's an assumption that one is better than the other.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's actually why like self-confidence has to come from within, because it's like externally, it is like this well that will never fill up, right?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like because for whatever reason we remember the bad things more than remember the the positive, right?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so it doesn't matter how many compliments you get or how many people are like doting on you, like it doesn't really matter because you have one or two hateful comments or mean comments and they like erase everything.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it just has to be, you know, come within, which has been my journey to like really be able to feel like I like myself and love myself regardless of what anyone else is expecting of me.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it's I wonder how you find the version of yourself that you feel is right, but maybe you aren't yet.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_05: Or is that a contradiction in and of itself?
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_05: Like it is striving for something like I'll give you an example.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_05: For me, I want to be a good dad.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know that I've always been a good dad.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_05: I think over time I've grown into a good dad.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, that's who I who I am, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_05: I could use the same example with like I always wanted to be a good husband.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, my both my parents are divorced, like I I've seen that too many times.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_05: I never wanted to be that, but I wasn't a good husband.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll parents divorced and then divorced again, which is yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: You said both my parents divorced.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_05: So three divorces.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_05: That's plenty.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_05: There were probably more.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of divorces.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_05: But but I always wanted to be a good husband, and but I wasn't a good husband, but I grew into a good husband, I think.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_05: Um I would say.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_05: And so like the the idea of like finding yourself, is there ever a in your in your opinion, is there a this is who I am, or is there an aspect of I want to be this and I'm working towards that, or is it both?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that the one thing that we are always agreeing on is like we are always evolving and growing, right?
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and what that looks like day-to-day changes.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that I can, I mean, I think of this in terms of Joe Dispenza, so I'm gonna go there because that's what I think about.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: But when you're doing it, when we do the morning meditation and you're picturing like the life that you want, which is really the life that I have, amplified, right?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so in that moment, everything is coming, is like perfectly aligned, and and you feel a sense of like freedom and power and and love and all these beautiful things.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that to some degree, like that's what we're aspiring to be, right?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that's inside of us already, except for nobody carries that out every single day, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think at my heart and core, like I am this loving person who's open-minded and accepting and patient and kind.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that same loving person is gonna yell at our kids and be short and have bitchy days, you know, and that's just humanness.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_05: I I don't know if I have the answer.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, the man.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_05: The yeah.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_05: More water, more water.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if I have the answer, but I think the the morning kind of version of me really resonates.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I I get up and we I read the Bible, we meditate, uh, these are relatively new things for us, and I feel like so much peace and clarity in in those moments.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_05: And so I guess that probably is me who the best version of you.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_05: The best version of me.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_05: And then to your point, throughout the day, things like wither away and get worn down, and by the end of the night I'm exhausted and I don't know who the heck I am.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um and maybe that's the reality of life.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I I remember being young and people saying, Oh, it's so hard when you get older.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't think it has to be hard.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_05: I wouldn't, I don't view our life as hard.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but that's just the reality.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's funny actually, I didn't tell you this, but today we were uh in my room and we were talking about it was the the boys and I, and and we were saying how Ashton was like having a really hard day.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, I was like, honestly, I'm feeling like irritable and bitchy too.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um and one of our older boys were were like, uh, dad's never like that.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And they wow, but they were joking they were like, he's either extremely angry and mad at us, or and then the next minute he hugs us and he tells us he's so proud of us.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, yeah, that's the reality of life, right?
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that like I think that's just the reality of being human too, and like there's no guilt around that.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can say we're sorry, we're sorry for being grumpy, but it but to like expect us to be always living at this elevated, like that morning picture of us is amazing, right?
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that's what you strive for.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: And some days are easy and you kind of get it right, and other days are just nowhere near that.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's just the reality of the human experience that that is, and I think that modeling that to our kids is okay, right?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you guys are you guys are irritable and like bitchy too, you know, and that's okay.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's just part of it.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think the recognition of of whatever they're doing in ourselves and the admission of that is huge for the kids.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_05: I've noticed that.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's like as like saying I'm grumpy too for you was really empowering for him because he didn't feel like he was the only one, kind of going back to my story about being fired.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_05: It's like yeah, we all have these things and it's okay.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah rather than I think the way it used to be, at least where we grew up was or when we grew up was be perfect.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm not gonna apologize as a parent, I'm not gonna uh understand, just do what you need to do.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I and in fairness, there was it was a different time and place, and there might not have been space for that.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_05: But I think that that the kids seeing us as human is really impactful and also empowering to them to hopefully allow them to figure out who they are without any like there will always be expectations, but without such pressure and expectation.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that the beautiful thing is, you know, we've done a lot of work on ourselves, so now it's like we have tools, right?
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know when I'm like this, I need to go work out or I need to meditate, or I just need to be able to myself, I need to go for a walk, right?
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: And like you have your tools, and so we also model that, right?
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's like being angry is just part of being human.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Being mean is not acceptable because you're angry, right?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's always those lessons too.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it is also kind of ties in with like parts work, right?
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's because like just because you are being a certain way, it doesn't mean that you are that, which I think is so freeing.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like just because you're feeling angry and irritable now doesn't mean you're a mean person, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I think all that's true.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_05: And and you said when we were talking about who you are or finding yourself, you were saying, I'm this now and I may be this in the future.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's actually an interesting perspective.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_05: I just did some a 10-year exercise that I was telling you about where how do I want life to look in 10 years, which is a pretty interesting exercise to go through.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_05: And because when I look at all the different aspects of life that and how I want them to be, as an example, I want to start businesses with the kids that are around their passion individually and and get to guide them and support them, but it not be my business, right?
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_05: And that starts to shape who I want to be then in some ways, right?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_05: Supportive, more nurturing rather than driving, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_05: Um leaving space for them to make mistakes, and it actually starts to make me think about who I am now and where I want to start changing or improving.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_05: I think it gives a good lens, um, which I hadn't thought about before, but to the current you.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_05: It does.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_05: And how you can start to become the person that you want to be in 10 years to have the life you want to have in 10 years.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_05: I feel like I I hear it cliche, like said cliche in a cliche way around relationships.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_05: When people aren't in a relationship, they say, well, become the person that you want to find.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that's like an interesting I don't know, example of like who we are and who we can become and what that can do.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, 100%.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's interesting.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have like in my head, I have like part pushbacks.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like in ten years from now, like I don't even know, right?
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it almost feels like such a big task that it's like almost too much.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess if you break that down into like smaller things that are tangible, then it's not so overwhelming.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I think there's a always going to be unpredicta predictability.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: Like we would have never said 10 years ago that we would live in Miami.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_05: Uh 10 years ago, we wouldn't have we would have not said we were having a third child.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_05: We actually said the opposite.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, I definitely wouldn't have said I was still running COIA because I planned on that being a very short-term thing.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's probably a year.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_05: It was gonna be a year.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_05: Um, and so I think you it's not gonna be right.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_05: It's like a business plan.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_05: Like the minute you stamp it, it's wrong.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_05: That's the only thing that you know.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_05: And but there is still value in creating the business plan because it helps you think through what you want to do and how you want to be and how you want to go about it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_05: And I think I would use that same example with you know, a 10-year life plan, I guess, or life goal.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's fair.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think on a smaller scale, even like you know, the the meditation in the morning that we do just puts in perspective like, how do I want to show up today?
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because that feels much more manageable than like who do I want to be in 10 years, right?
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that's a question that I will go to even when I'm in a moment where our kids are fighting and whatever.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like how do I, if I'm in the right space mentally, that I can have that capacity, it's like how do I want to show up in this situation instead of reacting to it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_05: I I think I think that's a hundred percent right.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_05: And I agree with it helps me be better in the day.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_05: And that doesn't mean there's not value in the long-term plan too.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_05: I actually think they're both very important in different ways.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I should sit down and do the 10-year plan because I'm so resistant to it, which probably means I need it.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_05: But when you were talking about the boys and like how do I want to show up, it makes me start to think how we approach um or how we try to approach what we want to nurture versus I don't know if change is the right word, but but change in them for the future version of themselves.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_05: Like we've talked about what makes them difficult to parent any any child, but any one of our three children as a as a child make will make them successful, whatever that term means to you, but successful adults, right?
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_05: And so we don't want to uh parent out the five million questions because they we want them to question things.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_05: We don't want to parent out the uh standing up for what they want because we want them to do that as adults.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: The negotiations and but it's really hard to do to manage as a parent now.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's so much to that, right?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the fact that they feel very safe with us, and so we get the best and the worst of them.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like they're not afraid to stand up to us and not afraid to speak their mind, but they're respectful, which I think is very important, right?
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the hardest thing is that we have three very strong-minded children who almost never agree on something, right?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Which becomes the hard part to figure out because we involve them in so many decisions, which not everyone does.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I don't know, right or wrong, right?
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like we involve them in so many decisions.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: They have a lot of say in our family.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when they don't agree, that creates, you know, a lot of uh challenging situations for us.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: And at the same time, they have so much experience with negotiating and with working through difficult conversations and and conflict management that I think not everyone grows up with, which is such they are such useful skills, right?
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I mean, you and I don't always agree on what we should involve them in or not.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes it's like this is what you're doing in my mind, and your mind they have a choice.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_05: And so that that takes discussion as well.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_05: But I do think generally that the fact that they get to at least have a say or be heard, maybe it's just being heard.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_05: I hear you, but we're still doing this.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_05: Is an okay answer to, but at least they know they were heard.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's so many things, right?
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: You make a million decisions as a parent every single day, and you hope that you get half of them right.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe there is no right or wrong, right?
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like maybe telling them what they're doing sometimes is fine, and asking them is also fine.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's just different and they lead down different paths.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_05: Well, when you said like knowing that it's right, I think that's what goes back to for me, who am I?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_05: Because sometimes I'm questioning if I'm doing the right thing in so many ways.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_05: Parenting is an easy example.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_05: Um, work is another example.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_05: Like there's a lot of decisions to be made.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_05: Am I making the right ones?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: Am I involving the team enough?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_05: Am I whatever?
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, friends or activity or prioritization of time or prioritization of money, and it makes you it makes me wonder who I am and I am I doing it right.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I think sometimes the saving grace for me is, well, this is how it is, so it must be right.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_05: Like just acknowledging that whatever the current reality is is is right instead of thinking I did something wrong or I need to change, because that's often um torturous.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I almost have a negative reaction to you saying anything is right because it's all subjective.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: However, I think the most important thing is that we are having conversations with ourselves and each other and and being conscious about the decisions we're making, right?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know that they're right or wrong, and I don't it's like an experiment, right?
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: And yet we're consciously making those decisions, and I think that is the key.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you know, my favorite fable, I mean, is the Chinese farmer where we shall see.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_05: We shall see.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_05: And every the answer for anyone who may not know it, the answer to every question is we shall see.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_05: And the example is the the farmer's son goes out and finds wild horses and brings them home, and the the village says, You're the luckiest guy, because your son found these horses, and he says, We shall see.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_05: And the next day his son's trying to break the horses to tame them, and he gets flung off and he breaks his leg, and the village says, You're the most unlucky guy ever, and he said, We shall see.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_05: And then the next day the military comes through and is collecting all able-bodied boys or men, and his son can't go because he broke his leg.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_05: And the village says, You're the most you're the luckiest man ever, and he says, We shall see, and so on and so on.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_05: So I agree with you in that sense of like, we shall see, and there's not anything right.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_05: But what I guess my question for you then would be how do you avoid the swirl of am I doing the right thing?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_05: Am I making the right decision?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_05: Am I who I want to be?
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_05: Am I aligned with who I am and am I becoming who I want to be?
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, I'm just a feel person, right?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel into everything.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if things are out of alignment, like for me, they will eat at me.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like I won't be able to put things to rest.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so if there's like if I handled something with the kids and it's not in alignment, it will eat at me until I go and talk to them and make it right.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing with you.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like you be, you you and I can have an argument, you can fall asleep, I will lay there and think.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: I can't until like I literally until I feel like my nervous system feels like regulated when I am in alignment.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And otherwise, I just can't.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_00: So I would wake you up probably and have to talk to you or something because I just I don't know.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I think for me, it's just a barometer of how I feel.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: How would you answer that?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_05: Um I don't know.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_05: That's what I'm trying to figure out.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_05: And I mean I I think I think the the that's the point, right?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_05: Is like we're this this conversation um isn't the end and isn't the answer.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_05: And it's just the beginning and it's just another question to be asked, right?
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: 100%, yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Which I guess is the ongoing question of you know, what parts of yourself have you lost or are there any?
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, who who are you trying to show up as?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_05: So I know that, you know, when you were talking about who you are, you were listing these titles and and you were listing mom and you listed you know the founder of a supplement brand.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_05: And I know that that has been a struggle for you in many ways to feel like you should be, or like you have permission to be.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_05: And so I want I tell me how you found your place as that as a founder or as a like as a title?
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_05: As an entrepreneur, you you told me it was hard to Okay.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, let's be real, like you've built two$100 million companies at this point, right?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like I am a brand new entrepreneur who's starting out.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: And to think that I mean, there's a part of me that's like, I'm I want that too.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: I want to build a hundred million dollar company, like that would be awesome, and I think that I'm capable, and I think that I think that externally, from the time that we were dating in college, it was like Chris was like the big man on campus, and I was like Chris's girlfriend, right?
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: And then I remember like Andy being like, you are just as much as a powerhouse as Chris is, right?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: But mine is much more quiet.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm not I've never walked around like a peacock, like I, you know, like that's just not, it's just not really me.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, is there's there's a part of me that wants that same kind of success to probably prove to myself that I can, that I have what you have also.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many parts that are also like, if that doesn't happen, there's so many beautiful parts of it because the fact is like I don't want our kids to also feel like they have to, they have to make the same kind of success as you have had to in order to be something, in order to be important, and be in order to be valued.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: And and so maybe by me trying and not getting there, which I'm not giving up on the fact that I'm going to get there, but is is equally as powerful because to be able to stand next to you and to not back down and to not feel like I am lesser and to stand in my own and to like demand that you treat me the way that I deserve to be treated and that that you're not going to be this guy who, because you're successful, gets to do whatever he wants, and you get to have your women on the side and you get to whatever.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was not standing for that, right?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's so much strength in me, also.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's just more quiet strength.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that I mean, I guess that's part of finding myself also, right?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like to not be in your shadow, because I don't think that I'm starting to cry.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that for a period of time I felt like I was in your shadow because I was just a stay-at-home mom.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: And you were out like meeting people and you were going to summit and you were doing all these things that I had the option to do.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I chose to be home with our boys 90% of the time, right?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, like people don't even know I exist.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that was a choice that I made.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: And what I want, and looking back, I would do the same thing.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was important to me to be with them during those four minute years.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: But to be able to find myself and stand as your equal without any accolades, without any success on paper, without anything that the world really cares about.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: It takes way more strength, way more growth, way more like I don't know, determination is the wrong word, but like there's grit there, you know?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I was never going to.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, from the beginning, right?
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like beginning when we were dating, like you would have dated me forever and fucked around on the side, right?
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I told you early on, like, if you're not gonna marry me, let me go.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'll find somebody else who does.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that I've had to stand up for myself in a lot of ways to be able to be treated as your equal.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and I've done that quietly and with love and with patience, but like with a lot of grit there, because that wasn't coming from anyone else, you know.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: For you, it's easy.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like people love to like they can fanboy you all day, you know, like you're the four loco guy, like how cool and exciting, you know.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: And so that comes from external places for you, and that's never come from external places for me.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: But I've gotten there, you know, like I've gotten to the place where I'm like, I just I'm your equal in every way, right?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, you don't you could take out the trash more and live a little more on the house, but I probably let you slide a little bit.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_05: Not on many things, but maybe on that.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_00: But like in the big stuff, right?
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you don't I'm not I'm not that.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been as passive wife, and I'm not going to be, and I'm going and I'm and I deserve to be treated the way I deserve to be treated, and that is full, full, fully.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like I require all of you or I want none of you.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that has taken you a lot of work to get there in a different way, and in a different, and in a way maybe that doesn't mean as much as society, but it doesn't matter because that's what makes our our marriage beautiful, and that's what makes our life work, and that's what makes everything that's actually worthwhile worthwhile.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_05: Do you feel like um that was pressure from or the way I treated you, or do you think it was the way others treated you, or do you think it was the way you treated yourself or thought about?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think all the above.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, we were raised in a we were raised in Youngstone, Ohio, where the man was the man of the household.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um I mean, and that's how my family ran to a certain extent too.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: My dad was the man of the household.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you being successful young made it in your mind that you were able to do whatever you wanted because of that success, and probably because of the toxic masculinity that we grew up with.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so even though I never stood for that, like I asked you multiple times and I was prepared for the answer, even though I was didn't have the tools for it at the time.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that there's a level of that, and I think probably personally too, like I've like I said, I've I am still becoming, I'm still figuring out who I am.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: But like in my 20s, I was like very much not sure who I was, and I wasn't strong enough to fully.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I was always able to say to you like like what I was feeling, but not in the same way that I am now, right?
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: In a much more like my victim mentality, my victim part of me was much stronger than.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I've I've been able to outgrow that.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I think all of it.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think all of it.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: I think all of it too.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: I also agree with you that, um, and I don't know that you give yourself enough credit for it, but you have always um had all of that strength and been willing to let it sit in the background.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, uh, you know, you were the one that went to Chicago on your own, found your job, were out doing the toughest job ever of door-to-door telecom sales, killing it, making really good money when I was broke and you had to pay my rent for me.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_05: You know, like you were the one who had to suffer through and try to figure out who you were and and who I was, even and what life was after you know I revealed that I had been unfaithful.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_05: You were the one who went through, you know, multiple unmedicated births, which people are still baffled by, which was really the eye-opening moment to me to say the reality is women are much stronger than than us men, even though we get to act like we're we're stronger.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_05: And so I I don't I guess I'm saying it so that you hear it from me, because I don't know that you give yourself credit for that enough, and I want you to know that I do.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, listen, you've become like, I mean, you always have been such a big supporter of me, and I think that you will meet me at the level of what I demand, right?
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: And demand is not in the demanding way or in the loving way, but like I didn't know.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you also were not capable of loving me the way that I needed to be loved in my twenties.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, realistically, you had not worked on yourself enough to be like open-hearted and to meet me where I was, and I knew that, but I still was just tethered to you in a way that like I couldn't not be, right?
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think, you know, there's a lot.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot there.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: But what a beautiful I mean, I think, you know, I was laughing with Melissa recently because I was like voice texting her about the things that we choose and the things that we learn in these lives, right?
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And like, of course, I chose a man who was not gonna dote on me and who was not going to build me up and who was not going to do these things because I came here to do them on my own.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not an easy path, right?
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: But I would still choose that.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Like I didn't choose the guy who was like falling over me or whatever.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I should have, it probably would have been easier.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: But like I didn't because I needed to find that within myself, and I have like I have piece by piece and like brick by brick, and like I have been able to come into myself fully, right?
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you know, you'd probably just see it as like confident and sexy, where I'm like, I know myself now, and I know what I will stand for, and I know what I won't, and I will not allow I mean, this has been this way for a long time, but I will not allow people into my life who are toxic to that or who um pull me out of my alignment.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I do see it as confident and sexy and other things, but I think you've known for whatever reason for all of my life the neediness of like of people playing a victim.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_05: It just it's like a turn-off to me in so many ways, not just meaning like sexual attraction, but like just I'm sh I shun those people unconsciously or when they're acting that way, and I'm really attracted to the confidence and and confidence, I guess, in and and I do notice that.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_05: And I would say it's part of the reason why you know people ask, is our relationship stronger or sex better in you know, your later years, especially after being married for for so long?
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_05: And my answer is immediately yes.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_05: And then then they want to have more conversation about that.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_05: But like I think that's a big part of it.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_05: But when you when you talked about the strength it takes to find yourself, I think there's a topic that is a big part of that.
• 52:52
  SPEAKER_05: I think it probably just like me being fired, forced you to examine every aspect of your life and who you were.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_05: And it was when I had told you that I was unfaithful.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_05: And I think there could have been a lot of different results of that.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_05: Um you know, we could have you could have immediately been done with the relationship, which was the scary part for me because we had kids at that time, and that's not what I wanted.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_05: And this was all something far in the past, but that was a real possibility.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_05: You could have never gotten over it, and our relationship could have been permanently changed.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_05: You could have, which was probably the I didn't even know was an option, but you could have done what you did, which is do all the work internally and then with our relationship to to essentially make it stronger, not essentially, to actually make it stronger.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm curious how you thought about who you were, what that process was like figuring out who you were.
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think that so that was a process.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was horrific days that turned into weeks that were just terrible, that probably turned into months that started to get better.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, there's a lot there, but I think that the one gift in it was well actually there was a couple.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: One is I fully had a choice, right?
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew like the bis ball was in my court.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, 100%.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's part, you know, there's you have these thoughts that are like, fuck him, like, like, like I'm gonna go sleep with somebody too.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought about it, I'm like, I don't want to fucking do that.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: What's that gonna do?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's not gonna make me feel better, and like, yes, it's gonna hurt you, but like what that's still not gonna make me feel better.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I could leave, I could half, I take the kids, like life, you know, and like you can go be a scumbag on your own.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, that's what you're saying, you think.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, I could do that, but I'm like, you're still my best friend, you're still the person that I want to be with every day.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I and I wanted to raise our kids together, and and so I was like, okay, I don't really want that either.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I knew that I was not going to stay if I couldn't get over it because I wasn't gonna do that to you or me.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm like, I'm not going to, as much as I love you and would do anything for you, I will not sacrifice myself for that, right?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so I was not going to stay in a relationship that I was un in unhappy in.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that left me with a lot of soul searching and a lot of praying and a lot of work and a lot of conversations to have, right?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: And but the one other gift it gave me was I was able for the first time to be like fucking up is just being human.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was able to see you, see, I was able to love you despite all of your humanness, and that's what I felt.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, you're like, like it's wrong in every single way.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like what you did was horribly wrong, and it hurt more than anything.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: And like, it's been so many years, I could still cry about it just because the deception like rocks you to your core and it makes you question every single thing about your life.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: And is everything a lie?
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's such a process of unwinding and figuring out what isn't a lie and what is still real.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: And but in that, I was like, oh, well, all the things I'm so hard on myself because I felt like I had to be perfect and I had to always look pretty, and I had to be this wife for you that was like worthy of that.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: And there was a part of me that was like, fuck that, right?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if I can love you and you're in when you did the worst possible thing to me, then all these little things that I do, like I'm wiping the slate clean.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't care, right?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when we were honest about everything, all the like we let all of our skeletons out of the closet because it was like mine didn't compare to yours.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you're the harder one, right?
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're the one that can be harder on people where and so I was maybe afraid to tell you things because I was afraid you were gonna judge me, or afraid you're gonna be mean about it, or afraid, and that went away too, because I was like, what now, right?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I had the biggest thing in my back pocket that you could hold.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, but you you actually never brought that out?
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because it wasn't against you.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: I never wanted to use it against you.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was only for me to be able to step into my full messy humanness.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: Never against you, because that didn't serve me.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like hurting you realistically didn't help me.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like it wasn't gonna make me feel better if you were hurting.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like you already were hurting.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: I could tell you felt bad.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_00: It was like not if you weren't remorseful, we would have never, we would have never got over it, right?
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was never for that.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_00: It was never for revenge, it was never b there's I couldn't see any benefit to that.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_00: But it was for my own like messiness, it was my own permission slip to like be fully human, also.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_00: And and I think that that was like a pivotal moment for me because I'd stopped trying so hard.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_05: Interesting.
• 57:39
  unknown: Yeah.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_05: And do you think the for me, the moment that I felt like it was completely behind us was when we were with friends and it just felt like a moment that I forget what what came up or how it came up, but we talked about it with other people.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_00: I remember exactly.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_00: We were on a plane and uh somebody said, like, if if my husband cheated on me, I told him not to tell me.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked at you for permission, and you were like, and I was like, okay.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I I was able to tell the story without crying, which is also how I knew that I am a little bit raw right now from all of this.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_00: But how I knew that I was like, okay, I've done the work to be able to be like healed enough to have a conversation about this without crying.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_05: I knew that was the moment as well.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know if I knew it for the exact reason, but I think even just talking about it in public, because there's shame on my side.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_05: Of course.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_05: As well.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm clearly the bad guy, and I can own it and move on.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: Which was the hugest thing that you were if you had come to me and had tried to make excuses and had tried to like talk your way out of it, or had lied more, there would have been no repairing it, I think.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think that we had to strip down to like nakedness, like this is me fully raw and and vulnerable to be able to build from that point.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because if there was anything else, any other lies or whatever would have just broke us.
• 59:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 59:10
  unknown: Yeah.