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The Phillies are the super-team the Cubs could have been · North Side Territory: A Chicago Cubs Podcast

0:00
Speaker 1: He does it in a very authentic, genuine way. He
0:03
Speaker 1: is willing to do it. He wants to do it,
0:05
Speaker 1: and real Movetown Harper aren't necessarily willing to do it.
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Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory, Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.
0:17
Speaker 2: I'm your host Sahadev Sharma with me as always his
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Speaker 2: co host Patrick Mooney, Where your Cubs beat writers for
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Speaker 2: the Athletic. Today we are going to be previewing the
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Speaker 2: Phillies series, The Phillies. Banged Up Phillies come to Town.
0:32
Speaker 2: They just split four with the Marlins. Patrick and I
0:36
Speaker 2: spent about twenty minutes talking to the Athletics Matt Gelb,
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Speaker 2: who has been on top of this Phillies resurgence. We
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Speaker 2: touch base on how that happened, how they went from
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Speaker 2: kind of a joke to one of the best teams
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Speaker 2: in baseball again, how their pitching has turned around, Bryce Harper,
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Speaker 2: Kyle Schwarber, Cubs fans are very familiar with him. Uh
1:02
Speaker 2: and and just you know how impressive this turnaround is
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Speaker 2: and what what the Cubs can kind of expect this week. Uh.
1:09
Speaker 2: Like I said, they're banged up, so maybe they catch
1:11
Speaker 2: them at the right time. But I think, uh, you know,
1:13
Speaker 2: that's that's clinging to optimism for a team that's really
1:17
Speaker 2: been struggling for two months now, so always hoping for
1:21
Speaker 2: the turnaround is well, maybe what's some optimists to do.
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Speaker 2: But I'm not sure if many Cubs fans are clinging
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Speaker 2: to that anymore. Let's let's get to that interview that
1:32
Speaker 2: Patrick and I did. All right, Patrick, let's get to
1:35
Speaker 2: Matt Gil. He covers the Phillies for the Athletic. The
1:38
Speaker 2: Cubs have three games against the Phillies the best in
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Speaker 2: the NL. Is it best in MLB or best in
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Speaker 2: the NL? I think either way, they're they're damn good,
1:47
Speaker 2: and uh that's kind of the opposite of what the
1:50
Speaker 2: Cubs are. Uh, Gil, let's just start uh with This
1:55
Speaker 2: team was used as an example when Jed Hoyer sold
2:00
Speaker 2: off kind of saying he didn't want to turn into
2:02
Speaker 2: the Phillies. They were a mess for a long time.
2:07
Speaker 2: You covered all majority of that mess, I believe. Can
2:12
Speaker 2: you kind of tell us how, you know, give us
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Speaker 2: the shortened version, the quick version. We'll get into more details.
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Speaker 2: But how did they go from kind of a joke
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Speaker 2: to the best team in baseball?
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Speaker 1: I've covered a lot of it and most of it,
2:27
Speaker 1: but you're right, I mean they they were for ten years.
2:31
Speaker 1: I mean we're in the desert and they did not
2:33
Speaker 1: make the postseason for ten years, which is completely unacceptable
2:38
Speaker 1: from you know, a Philadelphia standpoint. I mean that kind
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Speaker 1: of market, you should not be the rebuild that goes
2:43
Speaker 1: that long. And part of it was, as Jed alluded to,
2:46
Speaker 1: is that they held on too long to the previous regime.
2:48
Speaker 1: But you know, really from twenty nineteen when they started
2:53
Speaker 1: spending money that was Bryce Harper's first year of the contract,
2:55
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen to twenty twenty two, I mean, there was
3:00
Speaker 1: just a huge acceleration of what they were trying to do,
3:02
Speaker 1: and I think they had a lot of different ideas
3:04
Speaker 1: and really stuff started to crystallize when they made a
3:07
Speaker 1: change at the top and Dave Dombrowski became the president
3:09
Speaker 1: of base operations after the twenty twenty season, so his
3:14
Speaker 1: first year was twenty twenty one. And you know, I
3:17
Speaker 1: think they've just they've just been better. At first of all,
3:20
Speaker 1: they've really hidden free agency, I mean at a rate
3:24
Speaker 1: that is unusual, and they've had their misses. You know,
3:28
Speaker 1: Tylan Walker right now, certainly looks like a miss. Nick Castianos,
3:32
Speaker 1: you know, probably gonna end up being a miss when
3:34
Speaker 1: it's all said and done. He had five has a
3:37
Speaker 1: five year, one hundred million dollar deal. He's in year
3:39
Speaker 1: three of that. But they've had some, I mean truly
3:42
Speaker 1: remarkable hits. I mean, Bryce Harper signed it in twenty nineteen,
3:47
Speaker 1: you know, tremendous contract. Zach Wheeler the first, the first
3:50
Speaker 1: Zak Wheler deal, which was signed by mac Clentax run
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Speaker 1: office one hundred and eighteen million over five years, and
3:55
Speaker 1: then they you know, packed down a three year extension
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Speaker 1: on top of that. I mean, Zach Wheeler is arguably
4:00
Speaker 1: one of, if not the best pitchers in the league
4:02
Speaker 1: right now. Amazing hit on that Trey Turner looks like
4:06
Speaker 1: a good hit. Kyle Schwarver. You you guys and your
4:10
Speaker 1: listeners know really well, was a I think a franchise
4:13
Speaker 1: changing the acquisition, simple as that, I mean, which you know,
4:19
Speaker 1: I know, uh that so frustrates Cubs fans a lot,
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Speaker 1: but uh just did a lot for them both on
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Speaker 1: and off the field, and they've really improved their pitching program.
4:32
Speaker 1: That's been that's been under the hood, I mean, has
4:34
Speaker 1: been a huge thing. They hired Killed Cotham as their
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Speaker 1: pitching coach, a former Big league pitcher who's got, you know,
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Speaker 1: advanced history of advanced thinking, and he was one of
4:44
Speaker 1: the early adopters of drive Line, but has really done
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Speaker 1: a great job of finding the middle ground when it
4:49
Speaker 1: comes to his pictures. And they have Brian Kaplan who's
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Speaker 1: the assistant pitching coach and has really helped them from
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Speaker 1: a biomechanics standpoint. And I think what they do really
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Speaker 1: well is they they have found a great mix of
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Speaker 1: new ideas with old school thinking. And we don't typically
5:08
Speaker 1: think of Dave Dombrowski as a new school guy at all,
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Speaker 1: but I think I give him credit and that he
5:15
Speaker 1: is very good at figuring out who he should trust
5:19
Speaker 1: and who he should listen to. And he has done
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Speaker 1: a great job since he took over a weeding out
5:26
Speaker 1: maybe the more fraudulent voices in the organization and elevating
5:31
Speaker 1: elevating the guys who know what they're doing and know
5:35
Speaker 1: what they're talking about and know how to connect with players,
5:38
Speaker 1: and that has become a huge thing they've taken. They've
5:40
Speaker 1: really taken some pictures and made them better. Christopher Sanchez
5:43
Speaker 1: is the prime example. And I think the Braves will
5:46
Speaker 1: see I mean some of the Braves the Cubs. Those
5:48
Speaker 1: are going to the Braves after this, and that's all
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Speaker 1: I'm thinking about. But the Cubs, we'll see the Cubs.
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Speaker 1: We'll see Christopher Sanchez on on July fourth, on Thursday,
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Speaker 1: he starts thirsty afternoon. A remarkable ascension for him. You know,
5:58
Speaker 1: they've just they've gotten guys big stuff and no command,
6:01
Speaker 1: and they've gotten him in the zone. Jose Alvarado is
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Speaker 1: really the poster boy for that. They They've got guys
6:06
Speaker 1: on minor league deals and gotten him into strikes and
6:08
Speaker 1: have made them lading believers like Jeff Hoffman, a huge
6:12
Speaker 1: win for them. They've just gotten guys better. They've improved
6:16
Speaker 1: their development at the major league level immensely. And this
6:21
Speaker 1: was something that they were not known for. They would
6:23
Speaker 1: bring up young players either too early or too late,
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Speaker 1: and they were they would become stagnant at the major
6:29
Speaker 1: league level. They would not continue to develop in the majors.
6:31
Speaker 1: And you guys know this, I mean development has really
6:34
Speaker 1: seeped into the big league level now because guys are
6:37
Speaker 1: coming up as unfinished products, very talented, but unfinished and
6:41
Speaker 1: the teams that can figure out how to continue to
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Speaker 1: win and develop these young players at the same time
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Speaker 1: are really finding it, you know, finding success, and the
6:49
Speaker 1: Phillies have I think, done a great job doing that.
6:51
Speaker 1: That's a long answer.
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Speaker 3: I'm sorry, No, I mean that's the perfect overview, because
6:56
Speaker 3: I think Cubs fans, on one hand, heard what's I
7:00
Speaker 3: was mentioning that metaphor of I think it was the U.
7:04
Speaker 3: Darvis trade where Jed was like, there are teams like
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Speaker 3: the Phillies, Giants and Tigers who saw that cliff coming
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Speaker 3: and ran straight over it.
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Speaker 2: And I don't know, he's not wrong.
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Speaker 1: I mean he's right. I mean they made mistakes in
7:17
Speaker 1: twenty twelve and twenty thirteen.
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Speaker 2: Oh for sure.
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Speaker 3: It's just as you know, it's weird for like executives
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Speaker 3: to call out other teams that specifically, like in a
7:27
Speaker 3: negative way. I was kind of taking it back even
7:30
Speaker 3: though he was right. And like you said, Matt, it
7:33
Speaker 3: seems like Kyle Schwarber was one of the guys who
7:36
Speaker 3: kind of lifted this franchise up. You had this awesome
7:39
Speaker 3: story in the Athletic, the essence of Kyle Schwarber. I
7:42
Speaker 3: think there are lasts of great stuff in it, But
7:44
Speaker 3: I think you really captured Schwarber's schwarberness.
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Speaker 2: With that story of alex Cora.
7:53
Speaker 3: Schwarber showing up with the Red Sox in the pregame meeting,
7:57
Speaker 3: interrupts and just goes bro, this guy stinks, let's go
7:59
Speaker 3: kick Talking about that at starting feature, you absolutely nailed
8:05
Speaker 3: it the Forber experience. Could you explain for our people
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Speaker 3: in Chicago who still can't believe the Cubs let him
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Speaker 3: go for nothing over you know, COVID imposed budget restrictions,
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Speaker 3: like what has he meant in Philadelphia?
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Speaker 1: He's just given them. He's just changed, helped change the
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Speaker 1: culture of this franchise. And because for years and years
8:29
Speaker 1: the Phillies were an organization that that found ways to fail,
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Speaker 1: They found ways to lose, especially in September. You know,
8:36
Speaker 1: the big thing here was that for September, after September
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Speaker 1: in twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty twenty twenty one, the
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Speaker 1: Phillies just always would crumble in September. They would find
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Speaker 1: ways to lose. And Schober not only has been productive
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Speaker 1: on the field, he really has. I mean, he's he's
8:53
Speaker 1: on the aisle now. Obviously the Cubs are going to
8:55
Speaker 1: miss him this week, a little bit of a growing strain.
8:57
Speaker 1: He should be back next week. But he's got like
9:00
Speaker 1: a three seventy five on base percent right now. I
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Speaker 1: think he's top ten and maybe eighth in the National
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Speaker 1: League on base percent. He is batting lead off for
9:07
Speaker 1: the Phillies. He's bad to lead off now for the
9:08
Speaker 1: better part of two years. And he just has this
9:13
Speaker 1: way about him that he has. I've said this numerous times.
9:19
Speaker 1: Like they say that JT. Real Muto is the backbone
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Speaker 1: of the team, and he is. He's the catcher, you know.
9:23
Speaker 1: They'll say that Bryce Harper is sort of the heart
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Speaker 1: of the team. You know, he's you know, lead by example, he's,
9:31
Speaker 1: you know, the star of stars. But really, I think
9:34
Speaker 1: that Kyle Schuber is just like he has become the
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Speaker 1: soul of this franchise. I mean, because he has such
9:39
Speaker 1: a way of connecting people and making people feel comfortable,
9:45
Speaker 1: making them feel confident, and he does it in a
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Speaker 1: way that's not forced. He does it in a very authentic,
9:53
Speaker 1: genuine way. He is willing to do it. He wants
9:56
Speaker 1: to do it, and real Newton and Harper aren't necessarily
9:59
Speaker 1: willing to do it, you know, they are willing, they
10:01
Speaker 1: want to lead by example. Kyle Schuber is happy to
10:04
Speaker 1: lead both on the field and off the field in
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Speaker 1: the clubhouse. And I think what's really worked is that
10:10
Speaker 1: he and Rob Thompson, the manager, are very similar in
10:14
Speaker 1: their ways, their mannerisms, and Schwarber has become essentially an
10:18
Speaker 1: extension of Thompson in the clubhouse, and that has allow
10:20
Speaker 1: Thompson to be hands off, to let these guys kind
10:24
Speaker 1: of do the things because he knows that Schwarber will
10:26
Speaker 1: make sure that they're not messing around. And I mean
10:30
Speaker 1: it's it's Olex Cora, you know, knows Dave Dombrowski really
10:35
Speaker 1: well from their time in Boston, and Cora said that
10:38
Speaker 1: he called Shober or he called Dombrowski after they signed
10:41
Speaker 1: Schwarbur and said, look like this is going this is
10:43
Speaker 1: going to change your franchise. And Dombrowski had done a
10:46
Speaker 1: lot of research on He's like, yeah, okay, I mean
10:47
Speaker 1: like he thought he was signing a good player and
10:50
Speaker 1: a player that would help in the clubous. And I
10:51
Speaker 1: think they've been blown away by his effect. Really.
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Speaker 2: It's it's fascinating to me because it's not like the
11:00
Speaker 2: Cubs didn't see that, like they saw that, and that's
11:04
Speaker 2: part of the reason why they drafted him. But he
11:06
Speaker 2: struggled so much at different points that I don't think
11:10
Speaker 2: he could fully embrace that aspect. When when you're working
11:14
Speaker 2: on yourself, it's really hard to kind of like go
11:16
Speaker 2: around the clubhouse and be that guy that's like, hey,
11:19
Speaker 2: you know, you know, chin up and all that stuff
11:22
Speaker 2: or whatever. However, he does it in his own unique way. Now,
11:25
Speaker 2: he got really hot at the end of twenty nineteen
11:28
Speaker 2: and you could see it coming out a little bit more.
11:31
Speaker 2: But I think twenty twenty just killed any chance of
11:35
Speaker 2: him sticking around. It's too bad because they saw it
11:38
Speaker 2: and he just didn't. They didn't embrace it. And I
11:41
Speaker 2: think Jed probably would admit, you know, he'd prefer to
11:45
Speaker 2: have him around right now. I mean, the guys through
11:48
Speaker 2: the ledge and power from the left side and that
11:50
Speaker 2: they like, it's a lot of what they need.
11:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's not the perfect player. I mean, like
11:55
Speaker 1: he's led the league in strikeouts each of the last
11:57
Speaker 1: two years. He'd added one ninety seven last year. You know,
12:00
Speaker 1: he still was at one hundred and twenty ops. Bus
12:02
Speaker 1: he's like, you know, twenty percent Betanly garage. But I
12:06
Speaker 1: think just a lot of what you what you mentioned it,
12:08
Speaker 1: you know, tough for him to be that guy when
12:09
Speaker 1: he's struggling. He I think he's reached a point in
12:11
Speaker 1: his career where he is able to separate those two things.
12:15
Speaker 1: And that is really hard to do. I mean, very
12:17
Speaker 1: few guys can do that. It's hard for a guy
12:20
Speaker 1: to be have to have personal struggles yet to put
12:22
Speaker 1: his team ahead of that. And Kyle has done that
12:25
Speaker 1: really well. And I think that in turn has enabled
12:29
Speaker 1: other guys to do the same thing.
12:31
Speaker 2: And I mean you could probably say that about Hector
12:34
Speaker 2: Narris with the Cubs and the bullpen, but and you
12:36
Speaker 2: you covered Nars. You know what a great guy he is.
12:39
Speaker 2: He's struggling with the Cubs and it's not a shock.
12:42
Speaker 2: You know that. It's part of who he is. You know,
12:45
Speaker 2: he is going to put men on base and then
12:46
Speaker 2: wriggle out of those jams. He's not wriggling out of enough.
12:49
Speaker 2: I'm curious. I mean, the Phillies, their bullpen was like
12:54
Speaker 2: the butt of jokes for years. Is this is this
12:59
Speaker 2: idea identifying under the radar guys as this being aggressive
13:03
Speaker 2: and spending how did like this shifted quickly and that
13:06
Speaker 2: that happens with bullpens. It's not unusual to see that.
13:09
Speaker 2: But how how did this shift and was it a
13:12
Speaker 2: philosophical change or just the randomness of bullpens.
13:16
Speaker 1: It was a philosophical, philosophical shift. It was very clear
13:21
Speaker 1: what they did. They chased velossity, I mean for that
13:24
Speaker 1: bullpen in twenty twenty and it was the worst bullpen
13:27
Speaker 1: I'll ever see, I think data you know. It was
13:28
Speaker 1: a sixty game season, but they had like a seven
13:31
Speaker 1: something ra and they failed in every imaginable way. They
13:34
Speaker 1: made trades to try to bring guys in.
13:36
Speaker 2: Uh.
13:37
Speaker 1: It was really bad. And one of the first things
13:40
Speaker 1: Dave Dombrowski did upon taking over in twenty twenty one
13:43
Speaker 1: was Chase Filossi. The first guy he acquired in trade
13:46
Speaker 1: was Jose Alvarado, and at the time he was known
13:49
Speaker 1: as this guy who had no idea where it was going.
13:51
Speaker 1: Great stuff, just no idea where it's going. And they
13:55
Speaker 1: have since targeted that kind of time, that kind of guy.
13:58
Speaker 1: They have a type, I mean, they really have it.
14:00
Speaker 1: It's like they've gone after guys like Alvarado because they
14:02
Speaker 1: believe that they have a program to get those guys
14:05
Speaker 1: in the zone more. And it's not perfect. I mean
14:08
Speaker 1: they've they've had some misses there, but they've done a
14:12
Speaker 1: really good job of just raising the bar in terms
14:15
Speaker 1: of stuff in the bullpen. And I mean it really is.
14:20
Speaker 1: It's crazy. I mean that that bullpen in twenty twenty,
14:22
Speaker 1: they just they did not throw hard. And I think
14:25
Speaker 1: that Dombrowski when he first took over, it was like
14:27
Speaker 1: was just sort of stunned at how the Phillies had
14:31
Speaker 1: gone about building a bullpen. And I mean it is
14:35
Speaker 1: night and day, it really is, because right now the
14:37
Speaker 1: Phillies they don't have a set closer. They haven't had
14:39
Speaker 1: a set closer since Rob Thompson really took over, and
14:42
Speaker 1: they Craig Kimber was that guy at times last year.
14:45
Speaker 1: But Rob Thompson's done a good job of mixing and
14:48
Speaker 1: matching and they have, you know, four different guys right now.
14:50
Speaker 1: They trust the back there. They have jose Alrado, they
14:53
Speaker 1: have Matt Strum, they have Oriyan Kirker and the rookie,
14:57
Speaker 1: and they have Jeff Hoffman. And I'm just bringing this
15:01
Speaker 1: up now so I can illustrate this. In twenty twenty,
15:03
Speaker 1: the Phillies relievers. Their average fastball is ninety three point
15:06
Speaker 1: one and in two years time, just in twenty twenty two,
15:11
Speaker 1: it went up to ninety five point six and this
15:14
Speaker 1: year it's ninety six average. And you know, velosity is
15:17
Speaker 1: not everything. We know that, but velocity in the bullpen,
15:19
Speaker 1: that's a lot that counts for a lot.
15:23
Speaker 3: Remember a couple of years ago, Matt, the Phillies needs
15:26
Speaker 3: some bullpen help. They acquired David Robertson. The three of
15:31
Speaker 3: us were in contact a lot at that time. Can
15:36
Speaker 3: you explain kind of how Ben Brown was viewed in
15:38
Speaker 3: the Philly system. And my understanding from your explanation was
15:41
Speaker 3: that the Phillies sort of kind of walled off a
15:44
Speaker 3: couple of other pitching prospects who were really highly regarded,
15:48
Speaker 3: maybe had a better pedigree, And just how did that
15:51
Speaker 3: process go?
15:52
Speaker 1: And also like what how does kind.
15:56
Speaker 3: Of Dombrowski view these guys, because obviously he has this reputation.
16:00
Speaker 3: I love seeing him at like the GM meetings because
16:02
Speaker 3: he's like the only one with white hair and not
16:05
Speaker 3: wearing all like lu Lu Lennon and like you know,
16:08
Speaker 3: cool sneakers, Like he's just such an outlier, Like what
16:12
Speaker 3: did he think of kind of Ben Brown and that
16:16
Speaker 3: transaction what you have to do to get to October.
16:19
Speaker 1: I mean, Dave is still into Davis into what was
16:21
Speaker 1: Lulam before lu Leman, and that's Tommy Hillfinger. He's still
16:24
Speaker 1: wears a lot of Tommy Hilfinger. So I feel like
16:26
Speaker 1: that was the style in the late nineties for most
16:29
Speaker 1: of the years. But Ben Brown, a guy that they liked,
16:34
Speaker 1: had a lot of injuries, was had you know, was
16:37
Speaker 1: really essentially like what we'd call like a pop up
16:40
Speaker 1: prospect in twenty twenty two. I mean, a guy who
16:42
Speaker 1: finally put it all together, you know, had some helium,
16:45
Speaker 1: attracted a lot of interests, you know, big strikeout rate,
16:48
Speaker 1: big time stuff. I think there were some questions within
16:52
Speaker 1: your organization about like his future role. You know, is
16:54
Speaker 1: he a big league starter or is he a bigger leaguer.
16:56
Speaker 1: I think they thought he was a big leaguer for sure.
16:59
Speaker 1: I think there was some new organization who were kind
17:01
Speaker 1: of upset that they traded him away. I mean just
17:03
Speaker 1: because of the frame. You know, he's a big guy,
17:06
Speaker 1: and it's like, Okay, this guy's got a starter's mentality,
17:10
Speaker 1: he's got a starter's body, you know, can we get
17:13
Speaker 1: him to a place where he's durable enough to be
17:15
Speaker 1: a starter and has the arsenal to be a starter.
17:17
Speaker 1: And I think there were so many organizations thought, yeah,
17:19
Speaker 1: we could, We could have done that with more time.
17:21
Speaker 1: Maybe would have rather trade somebody else, but yeah, I
17:24
Speaker 1: mean I think he was in kind of that bucket
17:26
Speaker 1: of prospects. They're like, okay, we're willing to make a
17:29
Speaker 1: move here to make the team better. He was not
17:32
Speaker 1: one of their top guys. He's probably in the you know,
17:35
Speaker 1: you know, back end of the top ten, I guess
17:37
Speaker 1: at the time for them, probably and really had risen
17:40
Speaker 1: into the top ten that summer because of what he
17:43
Speaker 1: had done in twenty twenty two. So you know in
17:46
Speaker 1: the end as a trade that they would do it again,
17:48
Speaker 1: I don't know, probably, probably yes, because David Robertson did
17:52
Speaker 1: help them get to a World Series. He got to
17:55
Speaker 1: save in the World Series, he got most insane says
17:58
Speaker 1: that I ever seen in Game one of that World
18:00
Speaker 1: Series in Houston, and you know, it was it was
18:04
Speaker 1: a pretty big price to pay, and it's probably you know,
18:07
Speaker 1: I mean, Debraski has been remarkably restrained in trading prospects,
18:13
Speaker 1: and I know everyone's like, oh, Dave Dembraski's just going
18:15
Speaker 1: to come in and tearror Harver farm system. And so far,
18:18
Speaker 1: the best guys he's traded are Ben Brown and then
18:20
Speaker 1: Logan o'hoppy, the catcher for the Angels, But they traded
18:22
Speaker 1: o'happy straight up for Brandon Marsh, who you know, was
18:25
Speaker 1: a also a young, controllable player who just had a
18:27
Speaker 1: better positional fit o Hoppy as a catcher and he
18:30
Speaker 1: wasn't going to crack with real Muto under contract and
18:33
Speaker 1: you know, still at the top of this game, so
18:35
Speaker 1: they trade him for a better positional fit and Marsh,
18:38
Speaker 1: you know, has been a contributor for them for the
18:41
Speaker 1: last three years now. So those are the best guys
18:44
Speaker 1: he's traded, though. I mean, he really has shown restraints
18:46
Speaker 1: and trading prospects, and I expect him to do it
18:48
Speaker 1: again this deadline because because of where they're out in
18:51
Speaker 1: the standings, because of the way the market is shaping up,
18:54
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of like impact type talent,
18:57
Speaker 1: especially on the hitting side, is going to be out there.
18:59
Speaker 1: Is Cody Blunder, you know, Cody Dolander is kind of
19:02
Speaker 1: gonna be an interesting trade case. Have you guys just
19:03
Speaker 1: gots that yet?
19:06
Speaker 2: Yeah? That that that will be that will be a
19:08
Speaker 2: topic over this angel. Yeah.
19:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's tough because because of those player options, like
19:14
Speaker 1: he's if another team is looking at it, it's like, Okay,
19:16
Speaker 1: am I trading? Am I giving up a prospect package
19:18
Speaker 1: commencer with a two month rental? Or am I giving
19:20
Speaker 1: up a package for a guy who's also going to
19:23
Speaker 1: be on my team next year for twenty seven million
19:25
Speaker 1: because he's got this player option. I don't know, that's
19:28
Speaker 1: a I don't know, like that's a I don't even
19:30
Speaker 1: know how you answer that.
19:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, and he's not he's not hitting for power, so
19:33
Speaker 2: you know, maybe the Yankees say, like, well he can,
19:36
Speaker 2: he can just put it over the short porch here
19:37
Speaker 2: and right and hit from our power. But watching him
19:41
Speaker 2: the past month, it's it's been it's been a little jarring. Uh,
19:45
Speaker 2: he's gonna have to face some mercado. Is that is
19:49
Speaker 2: that they're facing on on Tuesday? And then and obviously
19:53
Speaker 2: Wheeler and Christopher Sanchez. I'm curious about mercado and and
19:58
Speaker 2: like explain the the Sanchez trade looked like another steal
20:03
Speaker 2: for the Rays. At one point, right because they I
20:05
Speaker 2: can't remember who they got, but one of their many
20:07
Speaker 2: pop up prospects that just like shot up and became
20:10
Speaker 2: like a top, you know, fifty prospect. But I don't
20:14
Speaker 2: think it's looked at as a steal anymore. Just tell
20:19
Speaker 2: me what they're facing on Tuesday and on July fourth,
20:23
Speaker 2: So I'll start with Tuesday.
20:24
Speaker 1: Michael Mercado, another guy's they another guy they traded for
20:28
Speaker 1: from the Rays. And it's usually not good business to
20:31
Speaker 1: do trades again and again with the Rays, but Philly's
20:35
Speaker 1: actually hired. It's funny. I mean, Philly has hired one
20:37
Speaker 1: of the Rays quants to be an assistant GM. He's
20:40
Speaker 1: super young, and Dobrowski basically hired him to run their
20:43
Speaker 1: R and D, to run their analytics, and was like,
20:45
Speaker 1: here you go. And they gave an AGM title to
20:48
Speaker 1: get him away from the Rays because he was not
20:50
Speaker 1: He wasn't even a I don't think he was even
20:52
Speaker 1: a director with the Rays, and so he he has
20:55
Speaker 1: helped him on the margins. I think his name is
20:57
Speaker 1: Annie Colombi and he has targets and Rays guys, and
21:02
Speaker 1: so this guy, Michael Mercatta was one they got him
21:04
Speaker 1: in a trade in the offseason. Is again one of
21:06
Speaker 1: those classic rays. We have too many guys put on
21:08
Speaker 1: our forty man roster. We don't have space for everybody.
21:11
Speaker 1: What do you want to give us? And some Mercado
21:13
Speaker 1: was a guy that had been moved to the bullpen.
21:15
Speaker 1: Really tall, looks the part, throws hard. Phillies decided to
21:20
Speaker 1: make him a starter again in Triple A. They liked
21:22
Speaker 1: the arsenal that he made some changes to his body,
21:25
Speaker 1: complete unknown that definitely did not throw enough strikes in
21:27
Speaker 1: Triple A. This year is an interesting arm. I don't
21:33
Speaker 1: think they have very many expectations armed. He's in the
21:35
Speaker 1: rotation now because both Taiwan Walker and Spencer Turnbull are hurt.
21:40
Speaker 1: And so this is the first time that Phillies have
21:42
Speaker 1: to really dip into their rotation depth. This is gonna
21:44
Speaker 1: be Mercado's first major league start. They used six pitchers,
21:48
Speaker 1: six stars. I mean for the first you know, three
21:50
Speaker 1: months of the season. They were relatively lucky health wise,
21:54
Speaker 1: and some Marcado is gonna get a shot and I
21:56
Speaker 1: think complete on the total good stuff. Not sure have
22:00
Speaker 1: to thrown up strikes and we'll say, what a great
22:03
Speaker 1: test to be doing at regular field for your for
22:04
Speaker 1: your starting debut, and then on Thursday.
22:08
Speaker 2: It's just off Land with this offense.
22:10
Speaker 1: So hey, offensive is rough everywhere right now the way
22:15
Speaker 1: till you see this Phillies line up the thing I
22:16
Speaker 1: tried out, you know, without Harper forbarn Real Mouto this week.
22:19
Speaker 1: It's quite the thing. But uh on Thursday, Christopher Sanchez,
22:24
Speaker 1: I I don't want to like, I don't want to
22:29
Speaker 1: hype this up too much. I mean, like I've never
22:31
Speaker 1: I don't cannot remember a transformation quite like the one
22:35
Speaker 1: that Christopher Sanchez has made. And he was a guy
22:36
Speaker 1: you're right side of. They got him in a trade,
22:39
Speaker 1: a small trade between the twenty nineteen and twenty twenty
22:42
Speaker 1: seasons for Curtis Mead, who is this like complex infielder.
22:46
Speaker 1: He's Australian, not really a prospect at the time, and
22:49
Speaker 1: then went to the Rails system and blew up and
22:52
Speaker 1: became a top one hundred and top fifty prospect, has
22:54
Speaker 1: been in the major leagues, has not been great in
22:56
Speaker 1: the majors, and they they got this guy, Christopher Sanchez
22:59
Speaker 1: in retur He was a hard throwing lefty, had literally
23:03
Speaker 1: no idea where's going. People will now remember his first
23:05
Speaker 1: bullpen session in spring training with the Phillies in twenty twenty.
23:09
Speaker 1: They remember very finally now is that like they almost
23:10
Speaker 1: ran out of balls because like he in a bullpen
23:13
Speaker 1: session and threw so many balls in dirt or thrown
23:15
Speaker 1: so many balls at the backstop that they had to
23:17
Speaker 1: get more balls for him. And it's like, what in
23:19
Speaker 1: the world is this guy, like, you know, really thin,
23:23
Speaker 1: not in command, command of his body, not command of
23:25
Speaker 1: his pitches. Then and for the better part of a
23:29
Speaker 1: year now, this guy's been one of the best starters
23:31
Speaker 1: in the sport. It's just amazing. I mean, they dialed
23:35
Speaker 1: him back, they asked him to add strength. It all
23:37
Speaker 1: starts at the body. I mean he put on I
23:40
Speaker 1: believe now the number from two winters ago to now
23:43
Speaker 1: he's added twenty six pounds and not all of his muscle,
23:46
Speaker 1: but you know some of it is. And being in
23:50
Speaker 1: control of his body has helped him be in control
23:53
Speaker 1: of the strike zone. He can repeat his delivery. Now,
23:57
Speaker 1: he can throw more quality pitches. And he's developed this
24:00
Speaker 1: job which is one of the best off speed pitches
24:03
Speaker 1: in baseball. Now the numbers against it are ridiculous, and
24:07
Speaker 1: the Phillies have now since rewarded him with a contract.
24:11
Speaker 1: He's under club control for four more years after this year,
24:14
Speaker 1: but he signed a contract for twenty two and a
24:16
Speaker 1: half millen which bought out those arbitration years, and then
24:19
Speaker 1: also has two team options tacked on at the end,
24:23
Speaker 1: which would be his first two foe agent years. And
24:25
Speaker 1: if he keeps pitching like this, it's going to be
24:27
Speaker 1: a massive bargain for the Phillies. But it also, you know,
24:29
Speaker 1: guarantees him some money. This guy, this is a guy
24:31
Speaker 1: who was in Triple A thirteen months ago and really
24:35
Speaker 1: not even sure what his place in the organization was.
24:38
Speaker 1: So good for him for getting some guaranteed money, and
24:40
Speaker 1: good for the Phillies for you know, truly having an
24:42
Speaker 1: amazing development story. Now they dialed him back. He was
24:45
Speaker 1: starting ninety three to ninety four last year just to
24:46
Speaker 1: try to get him the strike zone. Now he's starting
24:48
Speaker 1: ninety six and ninety seven again, and he's throwing strikes
24:51
Speaker 1: and I mean he he's like he's their number four
24:56
Speaker 1: starter right now, and honestly, like he Rob Thompson said
24:59
Speaker 1: this and maybe hyperbolic, and he's like he would be
25:01
Speaker 1: number one for some teams right now, and he probably
25:05
Speaker 1: probably would. He probably would, Uh, Matt one concept before
25:09
Speaker 1: we go.
25:10
Speaker 3: I wanted to get your thoughts on you've gotten this
25:13
Speaker 3: long without talking that much about Bryce Harper. He's someone
25:17
Speaker 3: that cups fans will always feel like as the one
25:19
Speaker 3: who got away, Like you explain one why ownership's stupid,
25:25
Speaker 3: money and direction matters, and how has Bryce evolved from
25:30
Speaker 3: someone who, fair or not, was sort of perceived as
25:32
Speaker 3: a little bit of a punk and now is this
25:34
Speaker 3: sort of like elder statesman in the.
25:37
Speaker 1: Game crazy right? I mean, I think he's only still
25:40
Speaker 1: thirty one years old, but it feels like he's been
25:42
Speaker 1: around for twenty years. I think fatherhood has changed him
25:46
Speaker 1: a lot. He has three kids now. I think being
25:51
Speaker 1: in it being getting out of DC, where he had
25:53
Speaker 1: this sort of label as always as the kid, you know,
25:58
Speaker 1: as the son of the punk. Like you said, Patrick,
26:00
Speaker 1: I think getting out of there really helped him kind
26:03
Speaker 1: of mature into the next phase of his career. I
26:07
Speaker 1: see a guy who is very motivated by personal success, obviously,
26:12
Speaker 1: like he wants to win MVPs, he wants to do
26:14
Speaker 1: everything he can. But I see a guy who is
26:15
Speaker 1: more team oriented now and he's in a place where
26:21
Speaker 1: he doesn't have to be the leader. And I think
26:24
Speaker 1: in DC, because of how he came up and all
26:27
Speaker 1: the expectations put on him there, people looked to him
26:30
Speaker 1: to be a leader, and I don't think that's his style.
26:32
Speaker 1: And that's okay. I mean, he leads by example, he
26:34
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily lead by his words in the clubhouse, and
26:37
Speaker 1: so he's in a place where he feels like he
26:39
Speaker 1: can do his thing and he's everyone laughs at it
26:46
Speaker 1: because he's such a good pandura, but like he legitimately
26:49
Speaker 1: loves it in Philadelphia and like love the culture and
26:52
Speaker 1: was like totally leaned into this psycho fan base and
26:59
Speaker 1: he's he's very good at making the fans happy.
27:04
Speaker 3: And like listening to sports radio and stuff like quoting it.
27:08
Speaker 3: I love whenever you read about that.
27:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's he's an exceptional panda and he
27:14
Speaker 1: and he jokes about it because it's like, you know,
27:16
Speaker 1: he's like, I know how people feel about me, but
27:19
Speaker 1: he can kind of see, you know, He's like, but
27:22
Speaker 1: a lot of this is real, and I actually believe him,
27:25
Speaker 1: Like I believe that he is just like he's a
27:29
Speaker 1: big sports fan, and like he I think he loves
27:32
Speaker 1: being in a market where people live and die with
27:36
Speaker 1: their sports, and he is I always say this, and
27:41
Speaker 1: I think it's it's it's probably over the top, but
27:43
Speaker 1: like whenever they are at home, and even if it's
27:47
Speaker 1: not a big game, but especially in big games, time
27:49
Speaker 1: stops when Bryce Harper comes to the plate because no
27:53
Speaker 1: matter what you were doing, you were going to stop
27:55
Speaker 1: and watch, like him at back because something amazing might happen.
28:00
Speaker 1: And in a sport where there's nine guys in the
28:03
Speaker 1: lineup and you're successful if you're good three out of
28:06
Speaker 1: ten times, like it's amazing that this expectations on this
28:09
Speaker 1: guy and the attention on this guy that he has
28:13
Speaker 1: not only fulfilled it but almost exceeded it. And the
28:16
Speaker 1: one thing that is missing Graham as a world series
28:18
Speaker 1: right and he's not won a World Series yet, And
28:21
Speaker 1: I do believe that that is that is his pure
28:24
Speaker 1: motivation at this point is to win a World Series.
28:26
Speaker 1: And personally, I mean on a personal level, he's he's
28:31
Speaker 1: contributing as much as he can. I mean, I think
28:32
Speaker 1: before the injury, you know, on an MVP track, probably
28:37
Speaker 1: still even if he just misses ten days or two weeks,
28:39
Speaker 1: which is all he might miss. Still on an MVP track,
28:41
Speaker 1: he won Player of the Month of National League in May.
28:43
Speaker 1: He might win it again in June despite not playing
28:45
Speaker 1: for the last few games. So the guy has really
28:48
Speaker 1: lived up to the contract. He volunteered to play a
28:50
Speaker 1: new position, and he you know, very well might win
28:52
Speaker 1: a gold Glove at first base. Is here, He's he's
28:54
Speaker 1: been tremendous at first base. So fans love him and
28:58
Speaker 1: and and I think that the love as a mutual
29:00
Speaker 1: and that's rare that we see that kind of connection.
29:03
Speaker 2: I love the pandering aspect. If if the Cubs had
29:07
Speaker 2: a superstar wearing a Caleb Williams jersey into the ballpark,
29:10
Speaker 2: that that guy would be embraced immediately. We have dance
29:15
Speaker 2: by Swanson complaining about the Falcons drafting Michael Phoenix Jr. Instead. Uh,
29:20
Speaker 2: but Dansby is a great guy too.
29:23
Speaker 1: But you know, Bryce is oldest has become a huge
29:27
Speaker 1: Wires fan, and so like, you know, I mean, it's
29:30
Speaker 1: it's and like that's real. I mean, like Bryce is
29:32
Speaker 1: a Golden Knights fan because he's from Vegas, and that's
29:34
Speaker 1: like the team that he has adopted because he believes
29:37
Speaker 1: that they're the only true Vegas team, uh because they
29:40
Speaker 1: were expansion franchise and there's a lot of thoughts on this.
29:42
Speaker 1: He doesn't think the A's are gonna work in Vegas,
29:44
Speaker 1: but uh yeah, his son has become a huge Fires fan,
29:49
Speaker 1: and it's just it's it's neat to see because you're right, Patrick,
29:52
Speaker 1: I mean, he's his Just the view of Bryce now
29:55
Speaker 1: is very different and people see him like get tossed
29:58
Speaker 1: and like, oh there he is again, Like you know,
30:00
Speaker 1: just kind of like remember when he would get thrown out,
30:02
Speaker 1: you know, ten times a year when he was young.
30:04
Speaker 1: But it's like, actually, like he's shown more restraint and
30:09
Speaker 1: his reputation has changed. I mean he just yeah, it
30:13
Speaker 1: is it is quite the growth, and I think a
30:14
Speaker 1: lot of it does have to do with being a
30:16
Speaker 1: dad and guys can relate to that.
30:18
Speaker 2: Absolutely. It's a it's a little bit of a bummer
30:21
Speaker 2: that the like some of the most fun guys aren't
30:24
Speaker 2: gonna be there for this series. But I'm still looking
30:27
Speaker 2: forward to the Phillies coming into town. I just like,
30:29
Speaker 2: even with all those guys heard, I just don't see
30:32
Speaker 2: how the Cubs. The Cubs are in such a funk.
30:34
Speaker 2: This just feels like the moment where they start to
30:36
Speaker 2: get like, okay, this is the end. Like they have
30:39
Speaker 2: to play the Phillies, they play the Orioles, they sandwich
30:41
Speaker 2: the Angels in between there. If they lose that series,
30:44
Speaker 2: then we can really just like say, like all right,
30:46
Speaker 2: focus on the trade deadline. And I think that's kind
30:49
Speaker 2: of what these steps two weeks are gonna be. That's
30:52
Speaker 2: I'll tell you.
30:52
Speaker 1: Phillies fans would say that the Cubs are catching the
30:54
Speaker 1: Phillies at a good time, and h it is, it is.
30:57
Speaker 1: It is not a good lineup right now. It's rougham
30:59
Speaker 1: and they had they just over the weekend against the Marlins.
31:01
Speaker 1: They split four games and they left you know, a
31:04
Speaker 1: million guys on base. They were you know, like three
31:06
Speaker 1: for thirty something with runners and scoring position. It was
31:09
Speaker 1: not great. But the Phillies are team that's built on
31:11
Speaker 1: pitching and defense and that is something that they do well.
31:14
Speaker 1: Though of course, they made five errors in some of
31:15
Speaker 1: these games, so we'll say.
31:18
Speaker 2: Well, well maybe maybe they'll maybe the Cubs can come
31:21
Speaker 2: to life. We'll see, we'll see. I'm not I'm not
31:24
Speaker 2: betting on it. Thanks so much for the time, Gil
31:26
Speaker 2: but and hang.
31:30
Speaker 1: Excited looking forward to it.
31:32
Speaker 2: Man, take it easy, Take it easy, Gelp. Thanks so
31:35
Speaker 2: much to Matt Gelp for joining us. That was a
31:37
Speaker 2: great interview, and thanks to all of you for listening.
31:40
Speaker 2: This is north Side Territory. Uh please rate, review, subscribe,
31:44
Speaker 2: do all that good stuff for the podcast. We really
31:46
Speaker 2: appreciate you listening. We've been getting great feedback. Your interaction
31:50
Speaker 2: helps make this show go. We appreciate that. Make sure
31:54
Speaker 2: to read my and Patrick's work at the Athletic. We
31:57
Speaker 2: got you covered with the Cubs. Read Gelb's work if
31:59
Speaker 2: you if you're interested in the Phillies. That awesome Kyle
32:02
Speaker 2: Schwarber story. I can't recommend it enough. And Gelb in
32:05
Speaker 2: general is just a standout beat writer. His work is
32:10
Speaker 2: the type of stuff that people in the business will
32:14
Speaker 2: read to get ideas on how to better themselves. It's
32:17
Speaker 2: a he's just he's one of the best there is
32:20
Speaker 2: and it's really I know I read his work to
32:23
Speaker 2: get ideas and how to attack my beat and and
32:26
Speaker 2: most of the good ones I know bring up Gelb.
32:29
Speaker 2: So thanks to him again for joining us. Thanks to
32:31
Speaker 2: you for listening. We'll be back at it soon. Take
32:34
Speaker 2: care