Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Mark Normand: Comedy In An Age Of Cancel Culture

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Mark Normand: Comedy In An Age Of Cancel Culture · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  Can I humans welcome a safe space for dangerous ideas and is comedy a safe haven for dangerous
• 0:09
  ideas anymore or has it become stale and timid is the place where you can't say anything
• 0:15
  for fear of being cancelled that's been the criticism in recent years.
• 0:20
  One man who defies such criticism and steam rolls ahead with routines that are so articulate
• 0:28
  and sharp and honest that his detractors dare not bring him down is Mark Normand I love
• 0:34
  an episode like this, someone who's terribly smart and terribly, terribly funny.
• 0:41
  Mark was in Australia was kind enough to come into the old uncomfortable conversation
• 0:45
  studios I believe are the only press that he did in this great continent of ours and
• 0:50
  a big thanks to the promoter's tech dainty for arranging that for us.
• 0:56
  He is a one of a kind comic he's been on Conan, he's been on Jimmy Fallon, he's been
• 1:01
  on Stephen Colbert, he's been on Joe Rogan and most importantly Jerry Seinfeld saw his
• 1:10
  act on the tonight show and thought I want that guy to open for me at my shows in New York
• 1:18
  so he get in the call and the rest is history.
• 1:21
  He's enjoying the hilarious, the feelers, the one on Mark Normand.
• 1:28
  I feel bad that Sydney is not sunny for you.
• 1:39
  This is one of those cities that really shines.
• 1:43
  But when it's warm and it's not warm and indeed today was wet.
• 1:46
  But I had yesterday, I did a ferry, I went to Manly, I went to Bondi, I went over this
• 1:50
  goddamn town.
• 1:51
  You're all over it.
• 1:52
  What do you make of the town?
• 1:53
  I love it.
• 1:54
  The land.
• 1:55
  So are you going around the whole nation of Australia?
• 1:58
  Yes.
• 1:59
  Is that a thing?
• 2:00
  Yeah, I did Perth, Adelaide, Sydney, then Brisbane, then Melbourne, then Auckland.
• 2:04
  You got Brisbane right, but you're still pronouncing the R in Melbourne.
• 2:08
  Melbourne.
• 2:09
  It's like a bun.
• 2:10
  It's like a bun.
• 2:11
  It's like a pork bun.
• 2:12
  Just call it.
• 2:13
  What do you do?
• 2:14
  You should do your whole Melbourne routine about how they pronounce Melbourne like pork
• 2:17
  bun.
• 2:18
  I don't want to be that guy.
• 2:19
  There's a couple, the quals of Chlamydia down under, there's too many, or you're all prisoners.
• 2:24
  Yes, don't do that.
• 2:26
  We don't like that one.
• 2:27
  I mean, it is pretty amazing.
• 2:28
  I was once on a subway in New York City, familiar with those things, they go underground
• 2:33
  on the train lines.
• 2:34
  They're very dangerous and I hope you didn't see a guy jerking it.
• 2:37
  It was, I saw that, it was the best day of my life, many a time, came back for more
• 2:40
  the next day.
• 2:41
  I want to apologize for that again.
• 2:43
  It was great.
• 2:44
  No, I used to live in the New York City and, yeah, I did, I lived there for actually most
• 2:49
  of my professional life.
• 2:51
  I was in New York.
• 2:52
  I just came back here when I got old.
• 2:53
  Isn't this better, Livin?
• 2:55
  New York's a goddamn punch in the dick.
• 2:57
  Well, what do you think?
• 2:58
  I mean, sometimes.
• 2:59
  I'm telling you, it's better, Livin.
• 3:00
  There's nothing you want more than a little punch in the dick.
• 3:02
  I look, I look a little punch in the dick, but I don't need a nice, uh, Francis and
• 3:06
  Ganyu, uppercut.
• 3:07
  You don't want too much.
• 3:08
  Yeah.
• 3:09
  Just has to be just right.
• 3:10
  I haven't seen one rat here.
• 3:11
  No.
• 3:12
  We're doing a crossword puzzle.
• 3:13
  I mean, you guys are like, up, up, we do have, we have a renown for having wealthy hobos
• 3:19
  because as you say, we're all convex, so we're all prisoners and I know that's, that's
• 3:23
  touchy.
• 3:24
  But where's that movie, by the way?
• 3:25
  How has it been?
• 3:26
  No movie about the first prisoners, the rapists, the murderers, the pedophiles, and like,
• 3:30
  we got to build a courthouse.
• 3:31
  Hey, why are you calling us all those things?
• 3:34
  Some of us would steal on a loaf of bread.
• 3:36
  Oh, all right.
• 3:37
  I'm saying, all right.
• 3:38
  Well, the bread guy.
• 3:39
  Either way.
• 3:40
  That's a good point.
• 3:41
  We have a lot, we have a few movies about how bad it was for First Nations people, because
• 3:46
  that was no picnic.
• 3:47
  A lot of white guilt over here.
• 3:49
  A lot of white guilt.
• 3:50
  I thought that was our thing.
• 3:51
  We have a different kind of white guilt.
• 3:53
  We're still killing ours.
• 3:54
  You guys are way better than us.
• 3:55
  That's true.
• 3:56
  It's interesting, isn't it, that I feel like what's happened in the States just from
• 3:59
  while I was living there is that the tragedy of slavery has completely eclipsed the genocide
• 4:06
  of the First Nations people, totally.
• 4:08
  Because it's like, and also there are so many more black Americans in their office.
• 4:11
  Nations Americans are needless to say it becomes, that is the social justice, yes, racial
• 4:17
  issue.
• 4:18
  Everybody's got to have a thing now.
• 4:19
  You got to have a thing where you're feeling bad.
• 4:21
  So what we should have done here in Australia is had slaves, and that way we wouldn't need
• 4:25
  to have the reckoning with First Nations.
• 4:27
  You're missing out there.
• 4:28
  They're very helpful.
• 4:29
  They're very efficient people.
• 4:32
  They don't have to pay them.
• 4:33
  I'm not condoning slavery.
• 4:35
  I'm just saying, if you lived in that time, you got lucky.
• 4:38
  They are affordable.
• 4:39
  No, if you're black.
• 4:40
  No, that's right.
• 4:41
  Very affordable.
• 4:42
  Louis has a bit about how, have you seen that?
• 4:45
  Have you seen his latest?
• 4:46
  I love that bit.
• 4:47
  He's basically says, he, because I saw him here, and he was saying to people who haven't
• 4:51
  seen it, the only reason why you don't have slaves is because you can't.
• 4:57
  Right.
• 4:58
  Yes.
• 4:59
  But if you could have him, you would.
• 5:00
  You absolutely, I mean, you don't worry about buying the cheap clothes.
• 5:05
  Right.
• 5:06
  People who are in horrible conditions.
• 5:07
  Exactly.
• 5:08
  Iphone.
• 5:09
  Yeah, Ikees.
• 5:10
  But also, there was black.
• 5:11
  Black Pulitzer leaves, too.
• 5:12
  That's right.
• 5:13
  It's kind of fucks up people's heads, but it's just, hey, it's true.
• 5:16
  It's like when people say, fuck the police, you're like, also the black police?
• 5:19
  They're no good, too.
• 5:20
  Like, there's nuance.
• 5:21
  People hate nuance.
• 5:22
  The black police are part of a structural white supremacist system.
• 5:26
  You're right.
• 5:27
  You're right.
• 5:28
  Yeah.
• 5:29
  So they're not really black.
• 5:30
  Yeah.
• 5:31
  They're capital W.
• 5:32
  And it's okay to feel bad about things.
• 5:33
  Obviously, the native, whatever you get, aboriginals and all that.
• 5:37
  You can feel bad, but I think you'll get canceled just for calling them that.
• 5:40
  Oh, is that wrong?
• 5:41
  Probably.
• 5:42
  Oh, okay.
• 5:43
  Sorry.
• 5:44
  The, uh, the brown spear folk.
• 5:47
  What are we going?
• 5:48
  Yeah.
• 5:49
  That's what they, that's what they call themselves.
• 5:51
  Exactly.
• 5:52
  I didn't do it.
• 5:53
  No.
• 5:54
  What neither did you.
• 5:55
  I didn't do anything.
• 5:56
  I'm just sitting here having a lovely conversation with a wonderful comic.
• 5:58
  Oh, thank you.
• 5:59
  Let's talk about our country again.
• 6:00
  I love it.
• 6:01
  I get enough of foreigners telling me how great my place is.
• 6:04
  I love it.
• 6:05
  And, you know, New York can really fucking the ass.
• 6:08
  So it's nice.
• 6:09
  This is, this is clean.
• 6:11
  I feel safe.
• 6:12
  It's pretty.
• 6:13
  There's a ton to do.
• 6:14
  You got the beach bond eyes.
• 6:15
  15 minutes.
• 6:16
  Beautiful.
• 6:17
  Mmm.
• 6:18
  It's incredible.
• 6:19
  And this is winter.
• 6:20
  And it's winter here.
• 6:21
  In the same.
• 6:22
  This is winter.
• 6:23
  The crowds are good.
• 6:24
  They're smarter than microbes.
• 6:25
  Is that right?
• 6:26
  They're catching all the subtleties.
• 6:27
  Really?
• 6:28
  They're not even American and they're catching them.
• 6:29
  Yeah.
• 6:30
  They're more online than they do.
• 6:32
  Do they know?
• 6:33
  Do they know stuff about American?
• 6:34
  Oh, yeah.
• 6:35
  You guys get every reference.
• 6:37
  I'm saying degrees wrong and pounds and you guys are kilograms and anal and all this
• 6:43
  stuff.
• 6:44
  And anal?
• 6:45
  Sorry.
• 6:46
  I threw something else in.
• 6:47
  That was not.
• 6:48
  Yeah.
• 6:49
  We don't call anal.
• 6:50
  Well, we do that the same way, don't we?
• 6:51
  I don't.
• 6:52
  I think you guys do it from the other angle.
• 6:53
  I think it's the same.
• 6:54
  Oh, okay.
• 6:55
  Different hemisphere.
• 6:56
  Same.
• 6:57
  Same people.
• 6:59
  If you cut me, do I don't bleed?
• 7:00
  I don't know anybody.
• 7:01
  Homos.
• 7:02
  But I noticed the water, you know, the Simpsons episode, the water goes the other way.
• 7:07
  We all want to see that.
• 7:08
  That's right.
• 7:09
  But now your toilet just flushed down.
• 7:10
  That's not a thing.
• 7:11
  Okay.
• 7:12
  The Coriolis effect, if you want to know about it, is something that would happen if you
• 7:18
  had a perfectly balanced bucket and it was hanging from a rope from a tree, a perfectly
• 7:25
  stable tree and there was no wind and you put a hole in the bottom of the bucket and
• 7:29
  you had a perfect, like a funnel underneath it and there was nothing, there was no dirt
• 7:34
  and it would have been perfectly like a steel wool, you know, you were shining that thing
• 7:39
  up.
• 7:40
  So it just buffers a baby's bottom and then if you put it in, maybe you'd get the Coriolis
• 7:45
  effect going one way versus the other.
• 7:48
  But there's too many other variables in the toilet.
• 7:49
  That's why the Simpsons was lying.
• 7:52
  Yeah.
• 7:53
  Well, we bought it.
• 7:54
  That episode.
• 7:55
  You guys liked that episode.
• 7:56
  I didn't care for it.
• 7:57
  Oh shit.
• 7:58
  Navy Spoony.
• 7:59
  I thought like, there are so many truly funny things about Australia.
• 8:05
  Right.
• 8:06
  It's a bit, I understood the perspective of the minority who's like, you know, like
• 8:11
  the APU kind of argument of like, there's actually a lot you could tease us about as
• 8:16
  Indian Americans.
• 8:17
  Do you have to go for the cheapest shots?
• 8:19
  You know what I mean?
• 8:20
  Like, yeah, I only say it because 18 Australians have brought it up to me.
• 8:24
  I love it.
• 8:25
  So I haven't seen it in 20 years.
• 8:27
  No.
• 8:28
  I mean, it was basically like Bart was sort of like saying, don't sit on, don't trade
• 8:34
  on me or something.
• 8:35
  Yeah.
• 8:36
  And they also just wanted to put a boot up his ass.
• 8:37
  Yeah.
• 8:38
  I don't know.
• 8:39
  Hey, it's your town.
• 8:40
  The other one who's defending the damn epic, my stand by your opinions.
• 8:44
  You know what else is adorable about Australia is you'll be like, watch out.
• 8:47
  This neighbor is very ethnic and I'll go and it's Italian.
• 8:50
  Yeah.
• 8:51
  I'm like, oh, ethnic.
• 8:52
  I thought you were going to talk about, you know, crazy races I've never heard of and
• 8:55
  it's just some fucking walk.
• 8:56
  Yeah.
• 8:57
  I don't think we call them that either.
• 8:59
  I think that's probably up there with what did you call first nations people, brown,
• 9:03
  spear people or something.
• 9:04
  Yes.
• 9:05
  Yes.
• 9:06
  I think that's, we were, we would probably kick you out of the country if you keep
• 9:09
  on.
• 9:10
  That's a didgeridont.
• 9:11
  It's a job.
• 9:12
  Sorry.
• 9:13
  I'll see myself.
• 9:14
  Yeah.
• 9:15
  Yeah.
• 9:16
  Yeah.
• 9:17
  Yeah.
• 9:18
  Yeah.
• 9:19
  Yeah.
• 9:20
  Yeah.
• 9:21
  Yeah.
• 9:22
  Yeah.
• 9:23
  Yeah.
• 9:24
  Yeah.
• 9:25
  Yeah.
• 9:26
  Yeah.
• 9:27
  Yeah.
• 9:28
  Yeah.
• 9:29
  Yeah.
• 9:30
  Yeah.
• 9:31
  Yeah.
• 9:32
  Yeah.
• 9:33
  Yeah.
• 9:34
  Yeah.
• 9:35
  Yeah.
• 9:36
  Yeah.
• 9:37
  Yeah.
• 9:38
  Yeah.
• 9:39
  Yeah.
• 9:40
  Yeah.
• 9:41
  Yeah.
• 9:42
  Yeah.
• 9:43
  Yeah.
• 9:44
  You're the guy who seems like he's not that different from Jerry's on the field, right?
• 9:47
  I both talk with the same accent.
• 9:49
  Yeah.
• 9:50
  And then you get to be the big fish and a small, and a small pond.
• 9:54
  Right, and you're exotic because you're the foreign guy, so I'm sure he's getting tons
• 9:58
  of Australian Gash.
• 10:00
  Yeah.
• 10:01
  That's right.
• 10:02
  Does it tempt you maybe, maybe I'm married.
• 10:04
  I'm a archbiter, part two, no, I mean, to stay, you just stay here.
• 10:08
  I would do a month out of the year.
• 10:10
  It's so beautiful.
• 10:11
  Not offering a month. I'm offering 12 months per year and you can't leave too much
• 10:15
  I like to jump around to I could do this whole country in three months
• 10:20
  So New York's a great place. I think to be when you're in your 20s agreed then
• 10:25
  As I said when I got old I was like well, I don't want to have one
• 10:29
  I was there having kids and stuff and you know
• 10:31
  We were like we don't I don't think I want to be with a stroller
• 10:35
  I see steps going down into the subway with the hobo masturbating that you were talking about exactly
• 10:40
  So how long have you got left in New York? Well, I just bought a house in Brooklyn
• 10:45
  Brooklyn gives you a little more space. You know, so that's my weird little compromise of I'm still in New York
• 10:51
  But I'm out kind of in the burbs a little with a backyard and all that so that that's my move
• 10:56
  Sorry, I'm just drinking some delicious Sydney tap water great tap water. Very good. I don't know how to handle it
• 11:02
  From War a gamba damn
• 11:04
  Huh War a gamba man the words here. It's a good. We're in wool and maloo. There you go
• 11:10
  It's great. You will what tell me you were walking around at Barangaroo Barangaroo. Yeah, sounds like rag Marock
• 11:16
  Yeah, I feel like I've been
• 11:18
  Fragile well, what about Thor Ragnarok? That's what I'm saying the Thor movie. It feels like I wasn't that directed by a New Zealander
• 11:25
  Tiki Tiki
• 11:27
  Tawaii white Tiki. There you go. It's great friend of mine. We're very close. I think that's a town in Auckland
• 11:33
  Yeah, I'm trying are you going in New Zealand? I am. Oh great. You haven't been it is never been I'm excited
• 11:38
  It's it's a little more native over there, right? Why what is with this incessant racism? I don't I'm asking
• 11:45
  I don't even how gonna be raised if I don't know. What do you mean by native? There are more Maori than there are indigenous Australians
• 11:51
  There what there are more Maori that's their native population
• 11:56
  There are indigenous Australians. Was that what you are alluding to how would you say native? It's not racist
• 12:00
  Yeah, I say it is
• 12:02
  Love just call things raised. What are you doing hand? We were doing some kind of like and this one
• 12:07
  I can't joltson. Oh, I thought you're doing no, no, I wasn't doing blackface. Okay, right or minstrel
• 12:12
  No, no, I met an Auckland comedian and he had all these tattoos and he said I'm part
• 12:18
  Why E key or something and I was like oh, okay? And he was telling me about he's like all these tattoos
• 12:23
  My father's my tribe is like oh, this is is this normally like oh, yeah, all my family has this
• 12:28
  So I just assumed it was more
• 12:31
  Dow, you know, I don't say primitive, but you know
• 12:35
  Old school more deeply connected to there
• 12:38
  That's the way to say is what you are looking for perfect
• 12:42
  Do you find it difficult navigating the conversational landscape at the moment with the sensitivities and whatnot?
• 12:48
  You don't seem bothered. Oh, no, I think if the it's all I'm a big context guy, you know, and
• 12:55
  It's like you see a guy gets stabbed in a movie. You know, it's a movie. I feel like it's similar if you're trying to make a joke
• 13:00
  But I also won't go blatant. I'm not I'm not pulling a cramer here at the left
• 13:04
  Actually, right, you know, right and I'm just trying to learn and I think I grew up in a black neighborhood and went to a
• 13:10
  Predomly black school and we would say horrific jokes to each other and we all got along and now you really can't make the jokes
• 13:17
  I feel like we're more tense than ever. So I think the jokes could connect us. Yeah
• 13:22
  That doesn't seem to be the way that it's going though. Does it? No, but I still do it
• 13:28
  I got a diverse audience too, which is nice. So to me the proofs in the in the pudding
• 13:33
  Yeah, you know what just this week I did a segment with a linguist about the phrases that we say wrong
• 13:40
  Then I believe that we don't realize it wrong. Oh really and one thing they came up from a bunch of callers because I have talk
• 13:46
  Back callers on my radio show was that we say the proof is in the pudding
• 13:51
  Actually, the phrase is the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Whoa
• 13:57
  I love stuff like that. It just changes over time. That's right
• 14:00
  That's the proof of the and then people were saying that what was some other ones like
• 14:04
  For all intensive purposes. Yes
• 14:07
  Intense and purposes. Maybe you could do a whole routine about that
• 14:13
  I'll keep that give that one a Jerry
• 14:16
  Did you do a did you open for Jerry Sleinfeld a couple times? Yeah, we still keeping touch. Yeah, we had lunch about a month ago
• 14:24
  Yeah, very exciting. Just the fact that I know him is crazy. Why do you go to lunch with Jerry Slein? He had a restaurant
• 14:30
  He picked it out. I walked in. I said I'm here to they go. Oh, we know right here
• 14:34
  And when I speak and like that, I think we were doing a Robin Williams impression. Oh
• 14:38
  Hey
• 14:41
  Yeah, we had lunch. It was five minutes of weirdness and then we really got cooking. It was great
• 14:45
  He's a really normal guy. What was the restaurant? It was a called Brooklyn diner
• 14:51
  Right and what's it in Brooklyn? It wasn't that was the weird. That's funny. It's very confusing. Where's he living the upper west side? Yep
• 14:58
  Of course he does. Yeah. Yeah. Well, can I just say God be with you? What good bye?
• 15:04
  Well, good bye was God be with you and it's over time got turned to the good bye. God be with you. Yeah, you're talking about the
• 15:11
  Yeah, sure. That's another one for you. Well, you know, uh here we say good A as well. Right? You heard that good
• 15:18
  A it means a good day. Yeah, the God is in the day. If right God is good
• 15:26
  Yeah, take that. You can take that. So you sit down with Jerry Sleinfeld. What does he order?
• 15:31
  He got we got breakfast. He got some healthy thing. I got two pancakes. So she did and uh
• 15:36
  Wavos Rancheros. Well, he's paying. You got that right. Yeah. I told him I tip and uh he giggled
• 15:44
  How did that relationship come about? Crazy story. I uh did a tonight show which, you know,
• 15:51
  tonight show is kind of dead. You think to make your career now. Yeah. No one sees it.
• 15:55
  Well, who's tonight show was it? Because it's been a revolving cast for the past 10 years.
• 16:00
  Also true. Jimmy Fallon. It was Fallon. Yeah, and it went well and nobody sees it. It
• 16:05
  doesn't move the needle at all, but he happened to see it. Wow. Randomly in his gigantic castle
• 16:11
  on the other side and I bumped into him about a week later randomly, you know, he jumps around
• 16:17
  the city and I was doing a gig and he goes, oh, hey, I'm a fan. And I was like, wow,
• 16:22
  then I had a, I went on in front of him and had a good set and then he goes, let's talk.
• 16:26
  And we hung out in the green room. What club is this? It's called a Gotham comedy club,
• 16:30
  about 23rd Street. Yeah. And we hang out in the green for like an hour and it went so well
• 16:35
  that he was like, take my number. And I was like, I could possibly. Yeah. And he was like,
• 16:40
  day, use it, use it. I was like, all right. So I got his number and I skipped around Manhattan
• 16:45
  for about four hours. Wow. That's one of the best comedy moments of my life. Incredible,
• 16:50
  isn't it? And then a six months later, he's, I woke up hung over in a comedy condo in North
• 16:56
  Carolina, some shit gig. And I'm like, hello, and he's like, hey, it's Jerry. You want to open for me
• 17:02
  at the beacon? And I was like, yeah, sure. But you knew he was calling because you
• 17:07
  amount of saved his number. It's not like you didn't put his number in your phone. It was a
• 17:11
  different, it was made of his land line. And then you quickly saved that add to contact.
• 17:15
  You better believe it. Jerry Kassel. Yeah, right. Right. Right. And himself. I drunk texted him once
• 17:22
  and never again. Don't do that. Yeah. I didn't do that. I did look great though. I had to send it.
• 17:28
  Gotham is where I first met Mike Kaplan. Do you know my love bike? Old friend. Good old
• 17:33
  Mike. He was just on the show as well. I saw your clip on YouTube. Is that right? It's still up
• 17:37
  there. There you go. That must have been probably when he was on the show previously, maybe.
• 17:43
  He's been on the show more than once. Oh, Mike. It was me and Mike on YouTube. Oh, you saw.
• 17:47
  It was just you. It was just me doing stand up at Gotham. That's on YouTube. That's a long
• 17:51
  fucking time ago. Man, that's when I first moved to New York. Yeah, yeah. I would have been 2005.
• 17:56
  It went well. Did it? Yeah. What was I talking about? I got halfway through.
• 18:03
  I didn't care for it. That would have been, it would have been interesting anyway. Yeah,
• 18:07
  back in the early days of television presenting. It's always great. I feel to kind of hone your
• 18:14
  chops a little bit with a live audience. I know. It feels so antiquated now. It feels like a whole
• 18:19
  another thing. How did you prepare for your tonight show? Set. I have to get a set approved
• 18:26
  by the booker. And then once you get to the prove, I just run around city and just do it over
• 18:30
  and over and over. That's right. Five minutes. And how do you decide what the set that you're
• 18:35
  going to put to them is? Well, you got to go clean. So that cuts out a lot of cleaf stuff.
• 18:40
  And then you try to go with pretty accessible. Some jokes have weird references.
• 18:48
  And so you go clean and then you try to go very mainstream material,
• 18:54
  relationship, family, whatever eating. Because you know, Omaha, they need to get it. Yeah,
• 19:00
  exactly, exactly. So then I like to try to end with a nice banger, with a callback. So you got
• 19:05
  to put that together. And here we are. Fantastic. And I guess part of your stratospheric rise
• 19:13
  was going on Joe Rogan's show as well. That helped. And that was back when Rogan was
• 19:17
  Rogan. Like when you did. Yeah, back when he was, you think he was bigger? I think it was more,
• 19:22
  the YouTube was a little more accessible. Yeah, that's interesting. Do you mean pre-spotify?
• 19:27
  Yes. I did. Yeah, that's right. So no, I was post-spotify. I didn't under show seven times.
• 19:32
  Hey, I can't remember. You were viral on that one because you guys had the the debate about
• 19:37
  abortion or vaccine. They're both both. We did abortion in about 2018. And we did vaccines in
• 19:43
  about 2022. Man, you've done your research. All you're just making up controversial subjects.
• 19:47
  Well, Brad, our mutual pal, he said you want to do this guy's part. And I usually would go,
• 19:53
  what are you kidding? I'm going to go drinking and fuck my wife. But I was like, let me look
• 19:57
  to sky up. And I was, I was into it. That's interesting, isn't it? Well, I appreciate you being
• 20:02
  here. It's fantastic. Let's talk more about how great Sydney is. I'm in the weather on my right,
• 20:06
  people. The weather's not ideal today, but yesterday was I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I want to talk about
• 20:13
  Lex Friedman because he's a fellow podcaster. A lovely guy. You've done his show. Cute little
• 20:19
  autistic twink robots. Adorable. The suit, perfect hairline, zero motion. Yeah. Great guy.
• 20:29
  So what's going on with? He's AI. Is he? I think he's Chad GB. Yeah. I think it's GPT.
• 20:37
  PT. But you can be GB as well. Chad GB. GPT. GPT. It got it. That's what the kids are talking
• 20:44
  about these days. They're all about their AI. Very useful. Now you're telling me that Mr.
• 20:49
  Friedman is not just an AI researcher, but may actually be AI. So he loves robotics.
• 20:55
  One of the ways in which I do a lot of research before I interview my guests, which I generally
• 21:01
  don't do much research at all, would be to listen to them on other podcasts to see if they're
• 21:05
  any good. So then when you come up, I'm like, oh, he's been on Lex. Let's take a listen to
• 21:11
  a little bit of Lex. Not my best performance. I think you were great. Oh, thanks.
• 21:16
  But I got to say I'm a little mystified by the whole Friedman
• 21:21
  phenomenon. Because as you say, and I with the greatest of respect to my fellow
• 21:27
  podcaster. Sure. The robot thing is a little bit. It comes on strong with Mr. Friedman.
• 21:34
  Oh, yeah. I want you to put on those headphones and just listen to this. Because when I was
• 21:39
  listening to this, I was like, this is an amazing thing to hear. Here you are on Lex Friedman's
• 21:45
  show. Listen to this. Are you married? No. Single. Virgin. Of course. Yeah. I bet you'd be
• 21:52
  great and bad. You're ripped. The best hairline in podcasts. Yeah. I don't know. I haven't tried
• 21:57
  yet. So we'll have to see. All right. Well, let me know. Pretty big hog on you. I'm just trying to
• 22:01
  get a rise out of him. Crazy, crazy tool downtown. That matters to girls. Nothing. I'm
• 22:09
  deflecting. Okay. New Orleans. You grew up in New Orleans? Yeah. Born and raised.
• 22:16
  It's for May outside the French quarter. You ever been? Yeah. Don't remember it.
• 22:21
  Nothing. Who's interviewing who? I mean, can't tell if you have fun. No, not really. But Russian,
• 22:27
  I mean, Russian, of course, I drink alcohol. Okay. There we go. Something here was just labeled
• 22:33
  an alcoholic beverage in 2011. Fun fact. What do you mean? In Russia. It was all against the
• 22:40
  curtain. It's it finally got declared legally as an alcoholic beverage.
• 22:47
  Which means you can regulate it. That kind of thing. I guess so. Yeah. That's where your brain
• 22:51
  goes. Yeah. I just go out of these fucking rust. I didn't even know there's rules about drinking.
• 22:56
  Good. I'm learning about Russia from you. So what's the difficult memory experience from childhood?
• 23:02
  So no transition. No, I mean, what is happening here? I'm listening to this going. So people,
• 23:09
  millions of people. Yeah. Listen to this guy just sitting there and Mark is striking. You can
• 23:16
  take the headphones off. Okay. You're a batten. You're going in. You got the he's got a big dick.
• 23:21
  Yeah. You could bring in the, the beer, Russian anecdote to the table. Yeah. And he's like,
• 23:28
  he's got a list of, I guess, a set of questions. Does he have a set of questions? He did. Yeah.
• 23:32
  He did his homework. And then he goes. Then he just he is human talk. And then leaves awkward
• 23:40
  pause and then proceeds to next question on list. Yeah. Yeah. Which is fine. But how do you get millions
• 23:46
  of listeners? I have a theory. First of all, I want to say he's a good guy. Love the guy.
• 23:52
  Okay. I mean, how does he achieve this? Well, level of what do I need to be doing, Mark?
• 23:59
  Well, here's the thing is one. I think he's super genuine. Like he cannot fake of, obviously,
• 24:05
  can't fake emotion. But I think it comes all he's really interested. Not with me. I'm an idiot.
• 24:10
  But he's really interested. And I think that comes through. And the same with Rogan. Love
• 24:14
  him or hate him. He's actually like, what aliens Native Americans? Yeah. But Rogan has net. Rogan
• 24:19
  is so on. Yes. I mean, he is listening. And if you give it something or something to Joe,
• 24:25
  he's coming right back at you. The man is like, he's switched. He's not sitting there like a robot
• 24:31
  just going must proceed to next question on list. Now, this is my theory. You're going to hate it.
• 24:36
  I'm going to hate it. But I think we have a real need now. We're very emotion based. I think
• 24:41
  and victim stuff and all that. And I think Sam Harris, Lex Friedman, Huberman, that the list
• 24:48
  goes on of these purely autistic, erobotic, emotionless men who just spout information.
• 24:58
  Right. I think people are craving that so much. So he'll have a physicist on a scientist on a
• 25:03
  robotics designer on. And I think people just like black and white, A to B, one plus one is two.
• 25:11
  Right. And I think that's what's going on with Lex certainty. Yes. In a chaotic world.
• 25:17
  That's a better way to put it. I like it. So I think that's his appeal. And I think he came
• 25:21
  in at the right time. That 20 years ago, that Lex that would that would be thrown in the garbage.
• 25:26
  It's extraordinary. I mean, it's amazing that people because like this profession, my profession,
• 25:31
  if you can call it that is about having conversations. Yes. I mean, it's about having an ability to
• 25:37
  listen to people and then follow and then sniff out what's interesting and follow them down rabbit
• 25:42
  holes that you might not have expected. I don't do a lot of prep. I just think you'll listen to what
• 25:45
  you're talking about. And you want to talk about hobos jerking me off on the New York City subway.
• 25:50
  Then that's where the conversation goes. Yeah. But it's so it always I'm always fascinated by
• 25:55
  conversations that really aren't conversations. Yeah. That people still want to listen to, but that
• 26:00
  is just a person talking. I think that's popular. I think the Jimmy Fallon's of the world that go,
• 26:06
  what do you create? You got a gray sweater. I love gray and you're all going, what do we laugh
• 26:12
  again? What is this? And I think people just want information, black and white, you know. But to
• 26:17
  me, those are both flip sides of the same coin of not listening. That's a good point. That's a good
• 26:22
  point. Fallon is the, I mean, while we're shitting on people, why don't we just shit on people,
• 26:27
  right? You know, I think Fallon is the worst of the late night hosts. Just because I find him
• 26:34
  fast island, glib and giddy and mildly irritating. I love Letterman. Letterman was my hero.
• 26:40
  A lot of day was the gold standard of that kind of misanthropic, incredibly intelligent, smart,
• 26:46
  like, you know, always trying to find a way to, yeah, be snarky and sarcastic. I never liked
• 26:51
  Jay. I didn't like the, you know, I get along with everybody. Stick. I like Conan. I like
• 26:57
  Seth. I mean, but, you know, I think not listening and just spouting your robot question and not
• 27:06
  listening and giggling over the top of people and pretending to find their sweater up rawery
• 27:11
  as both flip sides of the same. I think, I think you got something, but I think that flip
• 27:16
  side that he's doing is in right now. Yeah. Whereas Johnny Carson was in for 40 years.
• 27:22
  Right. You know, those days are over. So it is a flip side and extreme, but that extreme
• 27:27
  happens to be working right now, which I don't think it will forever. Interesting. Well, where does
• 27:32
  like the Jordan Peterson emotive male fit into that? I think that kind of ran its course as well.
• 27:38
  I think people still love him. I'm not a huge guy because I already can make my bed and get dressed.
• 27:43
  But like, you don't need him giving you that advice. No, but I think there are people who do
• 27:48
  and I think I've heard Brad our promoter guy. Yeah. He's had, he's toured with him many times and
• 27:55
  he's like, good guy, sweet guy. And the people that come out are like, thank you. You changed my
• 27:59
  life. I was depressed and you saved me. So God bless those people who need to help and get it.
• 28:04
  Deepak Chopra from young white male. Yes. He's the male Oprah. That of middle aged. Yeah.
• 28:10
  Women. Exactly. And if people are wondering about Brad, he's the promoting way he works for
• 28:15
  the touring company that brought you out and that and he's a great guy and they do some work with
• 28:21
  me as well. Would you be a talk show host? No, it appeals to me, but I would I would hate it.
• 28:29
  Why? Because you got to talk to people you don't care about. You got to fake it. You got to be
• 28:33
  on. It's a job. Right. You know. And if it's not going well, you can't just go, well,
• 28:39
  this is this sucks. You know, you have to go, well, go to commercial and I can't live like that.
• 28:44
  Yeah. I would kill myself. Right. Oh, Jaylo is here today and you want to be like, Jaylo,
• 28:50
  how do you that ask? Is it is it hard to walk around with? But they go, whoa, what do you can't
• 28:55
  ask for that? I'm like, oh, well, I don't care about her movie. You know, so it wouldn't work.
• 28:59
  Well, and I wonder if, uh, because you gave me, if you make a certain level of
• 29:05
  success as a talk show host, you can decide who you don't want to talk to. I mean,
• 29:08
  unless they're surely, I mean, unless they're very, very, very top. You can't say no to cloonies.
• 29:14
  Sure. Tom Cruise, but you could say no to. Well, that's why I like Howard Stern because I feel like
• 29:19
  he's got weird lately, but I think the, those original interviews were really some of the best
• 29:24
  because he asked the questions you actually gave a shit about. Yeah. What happened?
• 29:28
  Well, I think he, uh, he was so far, the crazy guy, the misogyny sex guy that I think he swung
• 29:35
  the other way and now he's super far the other way and he's like, hey, you shouldn't talk like this
• 29:40
  and then you're like, I get it. You have morals now and you've evolved, but the show was better
• 29:46
  the other way. Right. I don't, I mean, because I'm here in Australia, I don't know,
• 29:50
  no longer hear him, uh, but is he woke? I, yeah, I guess that's the term and like he was on
• 29:56
  America's got talent as a host. So he's just lost all of his edge and, uh, still a great interviewer,
• 30:02
  but I think now he's like, hey, you shouldn't do that and this and that and you're like, we have
• 30:05
  so much video of you in blackface and slapping, uh, retarded homeless people's asses. I don't know
• 30:12
  if you have the moral authority here. Can't people change? Sure, sure, but they're funnier one way.
• 30:19
  Right. You know, and he's an entertainer. So is it the hypocrisy that gets you or is it the,
• 30:25
  the fact that he's not funny? It's probably the more that he's not funny and the, uh, who are you
• 30:32
  really? Right. I guess you can change, but I'm like, could you just change right back? Then do I
• 30:36
  have to adjust to that? I like a guy or a gal who's, is this, so is that, is that a generic,
• 30:42
  I mean, do you think that's a generic legitimate criticism of social justice that there's something
• 30:48
  you know, authentic about it? Um, maybe because it, it just happens to be in. And so you just
• 30:56
  happen to be completely on board with a thing that's in. If it goes out, will you not be in? Right.
• 31:01
  You know, I have horrible clothing because I don't know any about fashion and I feel like a lot
• 31:05
  of social justice is kind of fashiony. It comes in and it comes out and people just go where the
• 31:09
  wind's blowing. Yeah. It's interesting when people say like, oh, I don't know whether or not,
• 31:14
  if I lived in, you know, the 50s, whether or not I would have been sexist or if I had lived in
• 31:20
  the time of slavery, whether or not I would have had slaves to go back to the, the Louis gag. Sure.
• 31:25
  I always say if you currently believe the things that there are only good social incentives for
• 31:33
  believing like social justice issues, then we know that you would have been sexist and we know
• 31:40
  you would have had slaves because we know that your personality type is not to upset the apple
• 31:45
  cart. Great point. Right. Well, sir, you would need, in order for me to believe that you wouldn't
• 31:50
  have had slaves, you would now have to be doing things that are wildly audacious that the rest of
• 31:55
  us go, what the fuck are you on about? This is your, your so much more moral in the rest like you
• 32:00
  have to be an ultra vegan like if you're a super, super vegan or something. Yes. Or if you're
• 32:06
  Greta-Tunberg like sailing across the Atlantic and a homemade boat because of climate change or
• 32:11
  something, then maybe I'll believe that back in the 1800s or 1700s, you wouldn't have had slaves.
• 32:15
  Yeah, you're putting your money on your mouth. Yeah, if you happen to believe all the correct,
• 32:19
  like, you know, racist things that it's good that it's convenient to believe right now,
• 32:23
  for sure you would have had slaves because you're a conformist. And this is going to sound crazy,
• 32:28
  but that's kind of why I throw some of these horrific words out there because smart people get
• 32:33
  what I'm doing so I can kind of just slough off all the idiots. You know, they're like, hey,
• 32:38
  you're not supposed to say that. I'm like, what article do you read where you learn that I'm not
• 32:41
  supposed to say that? And I know I'm not supposed to say that. That's kind of why I'm saying it. So
• 32:46
  you sheepie people can just go on your way. Do you worry about that coming back to
• 32:52
  about you in the house all the time? But, you know, we're all going to die one day. And I'm not a
• 32:57
  bad guy. So I'm just like, yeah, it's a word. I said a word. I don't hate the people. I don't
• 33:01
  hate the people. There's not being a bad guy saved. That's a good boy. That's a good point.
• 33:06
  Outrage archaeology. I call it, you know, where they go back and they hunt. You know,
• 33:12
  they hunt for something. What was it? Kevin? What's his face? He didn't get the Academy award because
• 33:17
  he was going to host the the Oscars. Kevin. Yeah, Kevin Hart. And then they found he said something
• 33:23
  homophobic in like 2009 on Twitter. Well, man, it's like, well, you're just doing archaeology here.
• 33:30
  It wasn't that offensive at the time. Yeah, you can't take it up to now. It's like saying,
• 33:34
  hey, milk costs 10 cents. No, no, it used to cost 10 cents. Now it's $4.99. You know, it's
• 33:39
  a things change. Yeah. So you can't judge it by the old way. But I think too, it's weird that
• 33:45
  that's they're the good guys. Hey, Kevin Hart said a homophobic thing and let's ruin his life and
• 33:50
  take opportunities away. And you're like, you're the good one. Yeah. To be how about going, hey,
• 33:55
  you shouldn't have said that. And he goes, you're right. There's a different time. I'm sorry.
• 33:59
  That's a way more productive movement to me. It's funny, isn't it? Council culture.
• 34:04
  Council. Not cancel. I heard that on an NPR show. It sounds bullshit.
• 34:12
  This gotcha, we have to get you and like your debates with Rogan, you guys are having a debate.
• 34:18
  You would disagree with him. You're not like you should be put in jail. No, you know, and that's
• 34:23
  to be that's where we should go. And that's the liberal way. Let's be more liberal. That's very
• 34:27
  illiberal to just tear people down and then hurt their livelihood and smear their name. That's
• 34:34
  not good. What's funny also is that the same people who do that are the likeliest to be in favor
• 34:40
  of criminal justice reform and giving people a second chance. Another great one. So if you murder,
• 34:45
  if you murder someone that 20 years later, they'll be like, you know what? Everyone can have,
• 34:50
  like everyone can turn over and you leave. He's been rehabilitated. I'll polish the prisons.
• 34:54
  Yes. Fuck the police and let them out. You know, everyone has a reason for doing what they're
• 34:59
  doing. Yeah. And then someone, you know, 11 years ago, used the F word in a tweet. Yes.
• 35:05
  And they're like, fuck him forever, man. I know forever. And then it's weird because
• 35:10
  I'm going to try to get this out. You I'm good at saying it and then you can articulate it
• 35:15
  better. I'll be like the mock speaker, like a, you know, a horse whisperer. Yes.
• 35:20
  Not be the mock whisperer. There you go. There you go. So like, okay, if you call a trans person,
• 35:26
  a what's the the T word? The T with the Y at the end. We can sit with the T word. I think people
• 35:32
  know what we're talking about. All right. Let's say Dave Chappelle makes a trans joke and then
• 35:36
  like people take stuff away from him. They he's going to movie coming out and he gets pulled out
• 35:40
  of the movie. And he's like, what the hell? And they're like, you have to be more sensitive.
• 35:44
  You have to be compassionate to these people. But then they go and he's rich anyway. So who cares
• 35:49
  about his feelings? And you're like, well, that's kind of weird. You can't discriminate
• 35:53
  people's feelings based on how much money they have. But let's say you call Dave Chappelle the N word
• 35:59
  is is that is he okay? Because he's rich. Right. You see what I'm saying? I know I said that horribly.
• 36:06
  Yeah. If the feelings matter when you care about the group, but when it's another guy,
• 36:10
  you don't like the feelings don't matter. I need some consistency. I know what you're saying.
• 36:14
  I don't even need to translate that. I think that was perfect. Maybe a good trans because I don't
• 36:17
  know if I got it. You know, I said it. I think you might be talking also about this related phenomenon
• 36:23
  of punching down. Yeah. That's a big term now. You know, they say you can punch you can punch
• 36:28
  up. Yeah. You can punch down. But who says what's up? Well, who what's up and what's down?
• 36:33
  This is what I'm saying. Exactly. So like, if I would have called Dave Chappelle the N word,
• 36:39
  am I punching up because he's incredibly wealthy and successful or am I punching down because I
• 36:47
  am a white supremacist. That clip. That's the clip. Yeah. That's a good question. And also,
• 36:54
  I think if I call Lizzo fat, right? I'm an asshole. But if you if someone calls you racist,
• 37:02
  which is worse than being fat, yeah, they're a hero. And you're not racist. I assume. I assume
• 37:07
  you're not really mildly. Well, who isn't? But they call you and they have this weird out because
• 37:14
  they're calling you a thing that's bad. And I'm like, yeah, but she's actually fat.
• 37:19
  Right. And your maybe racist, but you will lose your job for the record. I'm not for the record.
• 37:26
  You're not racist or fat, but it's a genius play because you can't you first of all,
• 37:31
  you can't prove you're not. No, you could go, well, I have a black wife and they go, yeah,
• 37:34
  but it's internalized and systematic and your ancestry. Right. So you just you you you pulled all
• 37:41
  these these bullshit had cards out of a head. Bill Burr. Bill Burr.
• 37:45
  I said Bill Burr's racist all the time. He's banging a black woman. I know. He's got black kids.
• 37:50
  Yeah. For half black. Yeah. It sounded like a Gilbert Godfried half black. But yeah. So it's all
• 37:57
  very picky and choosy and convenient, you know, these these chest piece moves. Yeah.
• 38:03
  I'd rather be fat than racist. I'd rather be fat than racist. Yeah. I'd rather be what I am,
• 38:10
  which is a an ideal white non racist. Hey, that's good. Can we be that? That's good. Can we be in
• 38:17
  non racist? Be a champion non racist. They say you have to be an anti racist. You know what I mean?
• 38:23
  Which is a whole host of ideologies around diversity, equity and inclusion. Right. That are not
• 38:29
  actually the principles of Martin Luther King Jr. All gone. Yes. Yes. There are this new kind of like
• 38:37
  as you said, very self conscious kind of attitude towards identity. Right. Where we're all like
• 38:43
  it's not about ignoring the the differences. It's about exacerbating and exaggerating the differences
• 38:49
  and feeling very feeling very keenly. Yes. What tribe wear a powder. Yeah. I hate the tribe stuff.
• 38:54
  Can I be a little this? A little that like you could be fluid in gender so much, but you can't be
• 38:58
  fluid in ideology or politics. Let alone rice. Yeah. Yeah. You can be half black, half white.
• 39:04
  Yeah. That's fluid. That's fluid. You can be half black. Third Asian and a third Irish. That's
• 39:10
  very fluid. He's interesting. Isn't it? He's another one that want to throw at you. Yeah. Please.
• 39:15
  Trans is I feel like the hot button right now. Yeah. So they say trans women are women. Yeah. Okay.
• 39:21
  That's a big thing. Trans women are women. That's why the sports thing is allowed because
• 39:25
  the people go, well, they're women. They can play on the women's team. Right. But if I make an
• 39:29
  anti-trans joke, people go, that's transphobic, but it shouldn't it be misogynist? If they're women,
• 39:36
  right. Shouldn't it also be misogynist, but it's just transphobic, but I thought they were the same.
• 39:41
  So why is it just transphobic? Well, I would probably say it's both. Okay. They would give you that.
• 39:46
  All right. All right. There was an opportunity for them to damn you as two bad things,
• 39:51
  instead of one, I suspect the social justice warriors would take it up. Take that. I feel like
• 39:56
  he's a sexist and also a transphobic. Okay. You can have you can be both. I think that's fine.
• 40:01
  All right. All right. There's many different metrics of bigotry as you want to be. So if white
• 40:07
  men are trash or scum or whatever it is, toxic, is that mean Elliott Page is toxic? Oh. That's
• 40:14
  what I'm getting at. It feels like we say there's no difference, but then there's there's weird
• 40:18
  differences. Right. That's all. And I'm not saying there is or there isn't a difference. I'm just
• 40:23
  saying I want some consistency. Is Elliott Page a toxic male? According to your logic out there,
• 40:30
  and he is. That's interesting. That's fun stuff, isn't it? And that's why comedy's so exciting.
• 40:35
  And so just on the trans thing and the race thing, right, that it is interesting to me that
• 40:40
  and maybe this will change in 10, 20 years, I don't know. Yeah. But like race is basically
• 40:46
  a fiction, right? I mean, the way that we think about, right? Like it's not the
• 40:50
  analysis objective, you could say. Yeah, you could say nationalities of races. You could say ethnic
• 40:56
  groupings are real. And sure, I mean, we can we we we sociologically and culturally we make
• 41:02
  up racial distinctions, right? I mean, a generational two ago Italian Americans were not white.
• 41:08
  Yes. And Greek Americans and Jews not white, right? Now they're white. Other people are black. We
• 41:14
  you know, but the boundaries that genetic differences between races are negligible. Like there's
• 41:21
  more variation between within races than there are between races. So it's like it's a very slippery
• 41:28
  and cultural concept. Yes. Agreed. Sex is generally binary in most most species as a male and a
• 41:39
  female that have particular biological characteristics. That's about it. That's the only trans
• 41:46
  animal. But of those two things, the one that we've chosen to regard as being slippery and
• 41:53
  undefinable and on a spectrum is the sex one. Yes. Not the race one. Agreed. I can't just
• 42:01
  choose to change. I can't say I feel deeply inside that I'm an African. That's a black African.
• 42:06
  So I want to I think that'll change. That's what I'm wondering. So Rachel Dolezal. I think
• 42:11
  will be the Rosa Parks of the really? In 10 years, I think so because what's what's the difference
• 42:17
  and it goes back to what you said, do you just go where the winds blow on or do you actually put your
• 42:21
  money where you're about this? Right. So in 10 years, you're going to go, you called Rachel Dolezal
• 42:26
  a piece of shit. Now you're the bad guy. Maybe that'll come up. Maybe. And maybe everyone who
• 42:31
  piled on to Rachel Dolezal is going to be in prison. Now she's on only fans and I'm a member.
• 42:37
  That's right. Is that true? She is. She's on only fans. Oh, you better believe it. Wow.
• 42:42
  Does she still think she's black? Oh, yeah. She does. Yeah. She's part of the NAACP. It's
• 42:48
  have right. And they have her. Yeah. In Seattle, which shows how white Seattle is. Right. She is
• 42:53
  the blackest person in the Pacific Northwest. That's great. And just on the just to close the
• 43:00
  chapter on punching up and punching down, the other thing I often think which must be difficult
• 43:05
  to deal with as a comic is like if you're punching against the cultural orthodoxy, which everyone
• 43:14
  is supposed to believe, which might be like a very worthy kind of wokey sort of social justice
• 43:20
  orthodoxy. And there are huge penalties to disagreeing with that orthodoxy, speaking the way
• 43:28
  we just have been about the oddities of this or that aspect of it. Then they'll accuse you of
• 43:34
  punching down because the orthodoxy presents itself as speaking on behalf of marginalized communities.
• 43:41
  But what you're actually doing is I think punching up into an orthodoxy that has a dogma that
• 43:47
  is forcing everyone to say the same thing and believe the same thing. That is the power structure.
• 43:53
  Yes. Is the power structure at the moment that like white sexist racist males can get away with
• 44:00
  anything? Where? I mean, who? You know what I mean? That's right. I don't say us.
• 44:07
  I'm not sexist or racist. I'm just saying like who is the mythic like the mythical old white male
• 44:12
  dinosaur sexist who like the guy who in the office slaps a woman's ass and says like nice tits
• 44:18
  or something like that. Right. That person is not tolerated in polite society now. No way.
• 44:25
  The person who you know wears black face to the office party and thinks it's hilarious. He's a
• 44:30
  public animal. He's out of his ear. Yeah. So who's so who's the so attacking him isn't punching up
• 44:35
  surely? He's a powerless old loser. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. He's the villain. Yeah. So I agree
• 44:43
  in this whole monolith of your white to me. You're like your white guys. You're part of the
• 44:48
  problem. Like well, you're doing what police do to black people. You're what's the you fit the
• 44:53
  description profiling profiling. So now when you pull over whisperer again. Thank you. You pull over
• 44:58
  a black guy and you go, well, you fit the description. You know, six one black male and they're like,
• 45:03
  I didn't do anything. I just got off work. And you know, that's what they're doing to whitey.
• 45:06
  Right. They're going, hey, well, you're a white man cis hetero and you're like, I didn't do anything.
• 45:11
  I'm an idiot. But what about the claim that just by moving through the world as a white male? Sure.
• 45:19
  You have experiences that you don't even notice are privileged. Yeah. That like when you walk
• 45:24
  in and with store there's less scrutiny on you. I agree. You're going to shoplift something
• 45:29
  than if you were a woman of color or I agree with that. And I do think white people have certain
• 45:35
  privileges. But I also think other races have privileges that we don't focus on. I think everyone
• 45:39
  has some privilege. Maybe white people have the most. But there's dirt. I'm way nicer to black
• 45:44
  people than to white people. You know, and I have a black woman gets mad at me. I'm like, whatever you
• 45:49
  need, take my wallet, take my, my wife, please. But the white guy's mean to me. I'm like, get the fight.
• 45:56
  If I see a black guy on the train with music playing, I don't say anything. But if it's a white guy,
• 45:59
  I'll go, can you turn that down? Right. You know, and in a way, that's a privilege. But whatever.
• 46:05
  My point is, I forgot my point. No, I like it. That's interesting. You all some, well,
• 46:11
  if having, I think what you're saying is having a cot. Yeah. I got it back. Okay. So Asian people
• 46:18
  walk into a store. Okay. And I, they also, I think are left alone. So is that their Asian privilege?
• 46:26
  And people go, when they work hard, they don't steal. And I'm like, well, yeah, that's how
• 46:31
  these stereotypes go. So what you're saying is black people of thieves. I think I'm not saying
• 46:38
  black people are thieves, but I think there are black thieves. Yeah, but there are white thieves and
• 46:43
  Asian thieves. Sure. But why don't you, if there are white thieves and Asian thieves, why don't you
• 46:48
  get mad at them when they walk in the store? Because you're not racist against them. But why are you
• 46:55
  racist towards black people and not Asian? Well, then I think you're raising a sensitive issue,
• 47:00
  which is like part of the problem is a class and poverty problem, which particularly in the
• 47:07
  United States is overlaid onto race. Yes. Which I think is a whole different thing. Yeah. The shopkeeper
• 47:13
  is probably profiling unjustly people on the basis of an assumption about their class.
• 47:20
  Right, right. They think this person looks like a poor person who's likely to steal maybe.
• 47:26
  I think class is a better way to say it because a poor white guy comes into the store.
• 47:31
  I'm worried. Exactly. But he's white. Does that mean I hate white people? No, I'm scared of
• 47:37
  poor people. Yeah. I'm not. But if I own the shop, I used to be suspicious of poor people.
• 47:43
  Yeah. It's just weird. People say you hate people of color and I'm like, so does that mean I hate
• 47:47
  Indians? Hmm. Who hates Indians? Nobody hates Indians. They're the best.
• 47:52
  Pakistan is probably Indians. Ah, good point. The bigotry of small differences. Right.
• 47:58
  Arabs and Jews. Yes. Yes. It's having a card to play is a certain type of privilege is what
• 48:05
  I was going to say. That's another one you're just saying. So like, I am married to a guy.
• 48:09
  I get to play the gay card on everybody, right? The moment anybody talks about it, I can be like,
• 48:14
  and also I'm a half Jewish. So I get to be like, I've got two. I got two in my arsenal of two
• 48:20
  quills in my quiver. Yes. As you might say. And I'll be like, you know, when they talk, I can just
• 48:24
  say your homophobia and anti-semitism is shocking to me. They disagree with me with that. You know what I mean?
• 48:31
  And then you win. Yeah. And I win. Yeah. It's like you were saying about, you know, the black
• 48:35
  person on the subway playing music loud. There was a story here where there was a famous black
• 48:40
  rapper on a domestic flight here in Australia. And he posted on social media about how the flight
• 48:47
  attendant was racist because she asked him to put away his laptop computer and put his trailer
• 48:54
  there. When the flight was coming down and he felt like he was single, it singled out by
• 49:00
  him that she was particularly bruised or some areas. And I was like, you don't know how flight
• 49:05
  attendants, what their manner is in Australia, you know, whether or not wear more casual and less
• 49:10
  deferential than other cultures might be. You don't know whether she was just not treating on
• 49:14
  egg shells the way that an American person in the service industry might be because they're more
• 49:21
  hyper aware and more sensitive in the way that you were. Maybe she was actually treating you
• 49:25
  the way she treats everybody else. Of course. But you're used to an American Airlines flight attendant
• 49:29
  being more deferential because she's more worried about the perception of racism. We don't know. Like
• 49:33
  I've been tall. I've been pissed off at flight attendants a lot for being bossy to me. But the
• 49:39
  difference is you have the card in your pocket that you can pull out and go on social. They also
• 49:44
  have to deal with racism. This is also true. Real racism. So there is, I guess it's a 50-50, but I
• 49:50
  wonder this is a crazy question. This might get me in trouble. I wonder if black people ever get
• 49:54
  annoyed when black people tell them to stop doing something because they just, they can't use the
• 50:00
  race card. You know, like let's say the flight attendant was black. Now you can't call a racist
• 50:04
  because she's also black. So then what do you do? Now she's just a bitch or, or a hater or she
• 50:09
  just doesn't like you as a person. So I wonder if they're like, oh good, she's white. I can,
• 50:12
  I can pull this. I would if I was black and be like, oh, hell yeah. So what you're saying is
• 50:17
  your racist. How do we get to that? I'm saying if I was black, I'd want more white people to yell
• 50:24
  at me than black. That's fine because you'd be racist against white people and you'd be playing a
• 50:28
  race card. There you go. Maybe black people aren't doing that, but maybe one of them is. How many would
• 50:33
  you need to be doing it for it to be a phenomenon? Yeah, that's a good question. Five percent.
• 50:38
  But also I think if we're looking constantly for racism, you're going to think it's happening more.
• 50:42
  If you're always, you've heard that what's that old thing where they put a scar on a woman with
• 50:47
  makeup and they said go do a job interview and we're going to see if people treat you differently
• 50:52
  because you have a scar and they women go, okay, great big scar on the cheek. Then they go, all right,
• 50:57
  right before the cameras roll, let me just touch you up real quick and they take the scar away,
• 51:00
  but she doesn't know that. Then they do the job interview and they go back and they go,
• 51:04
  were you mistreated? They go, I've never been treated so badly in my life. I was so fucked up.
• 51:09
  They were all mean to me. They were cutting and insensitive and she had no scar. So it was all in
• 51:14
  the head. So all this victim, hey, your life's ruined. You got to target on your back. You screw it.
• 51:19
  You're down here. The world hates you. This is a horrible message. It's not good. And people think
• 51:25
  they're doing good by going, hey, you poor kid. You got no chance. You're fucked. The cops
• 51:29
  want to kill you. Now the kids like, I might as well break the law. Yeah, it's all fucked anyway.
• 51:36
  You know, Jonathan Hight, the, I love that color just. Yeah, the coddling of the American mind.
• 51:42
  He co-wrote. And I mean, that's partly his point. If you had to compile a series of behaviors
• 51:48
  or like things that you teach people in order to encourage a lack of resilience,
• 51:55
  then it would be exactly the kind of social justice, work ideas about people being victims,
• 52:01
  people being crippled by vulnerable to words, words being violence, being constantly
• 52:10
  being under attack. Like these are not, these are things that create a pathological kind of
• 52:14
  insecurity, wrongfully strengthening people. I agree. I agree. And we do this thing where we put
• 52:20
  a bandaid on shit. Whereas if you let it get wounded and scar up and heal, it would actually be
• 52:26
  stronger. You know, like trying to think of a good example, but hold on. I had one damn it. Oh,
• 52:35
  shit. I'm so hung over. I can't think today. So you get it. But you keep going. It'll come back.
• 52:40
  I love that. I think I lost it completely. It'll come back. I believe in you. But you're on
• 52:45
  the Jew thing. Yeah. My Jews. My grandmother, you know, by having been hunted around Europe by
• 52:51
  them Nazis. Not good people. Not good people, you know, Nazis. She, she, having come as a refugee
• 52:59
  to Australia and a cute story about her. Actually, she, like at the end of the war, she was in Europe
• 53:06
  and she went to the place in France where there were the big ships going to the new world. Yeah.
• 53:12
  And she was an uneducated, you know, penniless refugee. And the clerk who was there said you can
• 53:18
  go to Canada or the United States or Australia, which one do you want to go to? They're all taking
• 53:24
  refugees. And she said, which one's further away? Oh, that's why I'm Australian. Well, Canadian
• 53:30
  or American. Good for her. I mean, this is paradise. She was like, I'll go to get this, give me
• 53:34
  furthest far away from the, not from Europe as I can. Yeah. So anyway, I got it back. You
• 53:39
  could go to the Band-Aid thing. Yeah. During COVID, fat people kept dying, overweight people.
• 53:45
  It's a real problem. But the news wouldn't say try to lose weight. Right. And, but they say they,
• 53:51
  they don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. That's kind of mean. That's insensitive. But people could
• 53:55
  die because they didn't lose the weight because you won't tell them you're the CDC tell them to lose
• 53:59
  weight. Right. And so it's like, how much do you really care? You see, keep saying we got to help
• 54:03
  the people help the people be like, tell them to lose weight. But you couldn't do it. And
• 54:07
  then actually could die from that. But don't you think then the thinking is they already know
• 54:11
  that being fat is bad for them. So they probably would have lost the weight. So it's probably not
• 54:14
  going to help. And maybe you model muddy the message or something. Maybe. But I think it's better
• 54:19
  to do that in the long run. You ever heard the lobster thing? A lobster starts out in a shell.
• 54:26
  And he's got that mushy, you know, insides, the organs and everything. And he has a shell around
• 54:31
  him. Eventually the mushy part grows and grows and it gets too big for the shell and it hurts.
• 54:36
  So the lobster goes to find a safe place. He sheds the shell and that hurts. And then a new shell
• 54:41
  forms over time. And now he has a bigger shell. Then again, a few months later, the lobster grows
• 54:46
  again in the inside, the organs. So he has to go shed a shell and it hurts and it hurts and the
• 54:50
  shell hurts and it's piercing on him because he's growing. And he has to go shed the shell.
• 54:55
  The point is you do that like five times in the lobster's life. And it's painful and annoying,
• 54:59
  but it has to be done. But nowadays, if the lobster had a doctor, he would go, I'm hurting.
• 55:04
  The doctor would go, here's a colonipin, a percussed, a vikinin. Just deal with the pain and he'll
• 55:10
  never grow. The pain is good. The pain is good. And I think a lot of this shit in society is we
• 55:16
  need to put pain on us because of the modernity and the uber eats and the internet porn. You got
• 55:25
  gay porn is unbelievable. It's amazing. It's amazing. And you know, people having less sex. I
• 55:31
  dabbled people having less sex because they got porn at their fingertips. They got AI, sex robots,
• 55:36
  all this shit. So going to hit on a woman or a guy is a little scary. There's rejection,
• 55:42
  there's pain, there's nervousness, there's awkwardness. I'll just jerk off the porn. Yeah.
• 55:46
  So all these things, you get fucked in the end. Yeah. It's good in the moment, but the
• 55:51
  Instagram vacation is not worth the long term effects. You remember that, that's a great speech.
• 55:57
  You remember that, that sunscreen song that said it, it live in New York once, but leave before
• 56:03
  it makes you hot and live in Southern California once, but leave before it makes you soft. It's true
• 56:08
  in it. It's true. It comes back to the New York fucking you in the ass thing. Yeah. Like maybe that's
• 56:13
  part of, you was a great place to be in my 20s, man. Oh, that's great. I mean, you want to
• 56:18
  clean up with the fella. I got cleaned up with the fellas and listen to this accent. It sounds
• 56:22
  so exotic in here. Yes. You're cute. You got a good cheek. Thank you very much.
• 56:27
  Did Don the question of being fat and dying of COVID also when the monkey pox came.
• 56:33
  Gazing and they didn't say that. Nothing. Nothing. They wouldn't say it's gay. They just said,
• 56:39
  like, you know, vulnerable communities, vulnerable communities should take precautions and see
• 56:45
  their doctor. Well, I, even I as a card carrying member of your homosexual community. Yes.
• 56:51
  I thought that that vulnerable communities, because it was just after COVID, I thought, oh, that
• 56:56
  means old people and people with immune suppressed conditions, right? Yeah. I didn't realize, oh,
• 57:01
  it means the gays. Because you don't know who the vulnerable community is unless they name them
• 57:06
  and they didn't name them because they didn't want to make it sound like gays were dirty. Yeah.
• 57:10
  I think his AIDS got all that's right. It was super gait up. Yeah. So I guess they don't
• 57:14
  do that. But again, let a gay guy know. Now we can take precautions. Let a gay guy know.
• 57:18
  They might be always saying there might be one instance. We're just so worried about backlash and
• 57:22
  tweets and everything and being called a homophobic racist. That's a, that's the one biggest thing
• 57:28
  we worry about now more than anything. It is a fentanyl crisis in America. That's backburner compared
• 57:33
  to saying the wrong thing and having a black mermaid and all this shit. So we're so focused on
• 57:38
  people's feelings that we're actually hurting them in the long run. I like it. And no one's
• 57:43
  going to think that the health minister is a homophobic for saying that the virus is homophobic.
• 57:50
  The virus is the bigot. Good point. Put the virus on the on your in your
• 57:54
  sites. Yeah. Got your target. That's a t-shirt. The virus is the bigot. The virus is the bigot.
• 57:59
  Can I ask a gay question? Please. As an ignorant hetero. Of course. You don't have gay voice.
• 58:06
  You don't have like the gay. Oh, I don't have a gay voice. You know,
• 58:08
  the stereotypical thing isn't it? But I see a lot of guys doing that. I've always wondered
• 58:12
  I have gay friends who, you know, Tim Dylan. Tim Dylan. Yeah. Big, big homo. Yeah. He doesn't
• 58:19
  do the gay thing. He wouldn't know he was gay at first glance, mostly because he's so disheveled.
• 58:24
  But, you know, he's super gay, loves the, loves the dawn. Yeah. Why does some guys and my friend
• 58:31
  is an anesthesiologist. And he said when people come out of the gas, they tend to talk
• 58:37
  like they're real self. And then, you know, he'll say, gay guys come in very flamboyant. And then
• 58:42
  when they come out of the gas, they're like, where am I? And then 20, 20 minutes later, they're like,
• 58:48
  that was crazy or whatever. I don't want to do the voice. Isn't that fun? You should do the voice,
• 58:52
  but at the same time as you do the Al Jolson hands and a little bit of black face with your gay
• 58:58
  bashing for gays of jizz hands. It's not jazz hands. It's interesting. It's a really interesting
• 59:04
  question, but I mean, my hunch has always been that there are people who are, and this comes
• 59:10
  back to the trends and like sex and gender question as well, that I think there are probably a lot
• 59:18
  more people who would probably fool around with members of the same sex if there was no such thing
• 59:24
  as being gay. I mean, you look at like, you know, different societies where it's been a little bit
• 59:29
  more accepted and there's been more, but yeah, that's right. We know this, but I think that once there's
• 59:36
  there that like the people who are the most flaming who are like really don't like girls at all.
• 59:44
  Yeah. Maybe that maybe they have tended to be more effeminate and more on the kind of female side
• 59:52
  of the masculine sex. Yeah. And that all of those mannerisms are a part of that. It's almost like
• 59:59
  a form of high camp or something. It's like I'm an impersonation of a lady type. Oh, interesting.
• 1:00:04
  That's my assumption. And there's actually always been as many gay guys who don't speak or like
• 1:00:10
  guys who would like to be with guys who don't speak like that, but they just haven't felt the need
• 1:00:14
  to come out because maybe they're kind of more okay with, yeah, I could probably end up with a
• 1:00:20
  girl. Sure. I could probably, I mean, I wouldn't, it wouldn't kill me. I wouldn't love it,
• 1:00:23
  but it wouldn't kill me to be spent my life with a woman. Right. Maybe it's that kind of thing. And
• 1:00:28
  part of the concern of some people in the gay community about the increasing fashionability of
• 1:00:34
  the idea of gender and sex just being a spectrum is that maybe some of those younger people who do
• 1:00:40
  feel like they're not real men because they're so effeminate. Right. I'm going to
• 1:00:45
  assume that they must actually be trans girls instead of being guys. Yeah, I think that's
• 1:00:53
  happening. So you're going to lose some cohort of people who could have led happy lives as gay
• 1:00:58
  males. And they're instead going to think that they're actually trans girls. Yeah, yeah,
• 1:01:04
  possible. And that's just like it almost reinforces this idea of masculinity as being a very
• 1:01:10
  particular traditional old fashioned set of masculine stereotypes. Right. Well said. Who knows?
• 1:01:17
  I just, yeah, just curious about that. Here's another question, please. You talk about punching
• 1:01:21
  up at the big the grand scheme, whatever you call it, the Wizard of Oz behind the curtain,
• 1:01:25
  this guy. If you say the wrong thing, you're in trouble, whatever. Don't you hate this? I feel
• 1:01:31
  like this wasn't around 10 years ago. We could all just live our lives and get laid and write jokes
• 1:01:37
  and do make money. And now it's like, all we talk about every time I talk about it,
• 1:01:41
  people are like, oh, here we go. Too white guys talking about cancel, blah, blah. I'm like,
• 1:01:45
  I know I'm annoyed too, but like it's such a prevalent cloud looming over all of us that you
• 1:01:52
  have to like think about it. I'm writing less material now because there's so much.
• 1:01:56
  Okay. If I say this, then that means that I have to appease to this camp, but that can't be
• 1:02:02
  mad. So I'm like dodging laser beams as a comedian constantly where you should just be able to
• 1:02:06
  tell a joke. Can you not just not sense yourself at least for the when you're working out the material?
• 1:02:13
  I can, but I think the audience is sitting there analyzing going like, well, wait, is he a Biden guy?
• 1:02:17
  No, is he Trumpy? Is he right? Is he left? Is this guy home of what's going on? And you know,
• 1:02:22
  you're like, you're not even listening anymore. You're just picking a part in problematic moments,
• 1:02:26
  maybe. And it's, it's a bummer. It's just a bummer. This is a part of life. Yeah.
• 1:02:32
  We didn't talk about this shit 10 years ago. No. And then they go, hey, you fascist. And I'm like,
• 1:02:38
  well, you just said, if I don't agree with you, I'm a bad guy. So why am I the fascist? Yeah.
• 1:02:42
  I'm not making any laws or rules or canceling people. Yeah. I hear. I mean, I also think of the
• 1:02:50
  opportunity cost. As you say, this like, you know, we've just spent an hour talking about,
• 1:02:54
  exactly like the things that we could have been talking about, which I mean,
• 1:02:58
  your boyfriend. We can. Look, I don't even have a dog. I don't either.
• 1:03:02
  Damn partner doesn't want one really scratching a raw a raw wound here. Yeah. Sorry. I want to
• 1:03:10
  get myself a golden retrieval. That sounds nice. Can you get one and where are you in Brooklyn?
• 1:03:15
  Is there enough room? I wouldn't it feels almost like animal abuse. Right. And I don't want to
• 1:03:20
  wipe a cat. Right. Easy. Low maintenance. That's what I want to get to the cat as well.
• 1:03:26
  I got a couple of kids who want a cat. They're five years old. Are you got kids? Yeah. They're twins.
• 1:03:31
  How do you like that? I don't recommend the first few years. Oh, really? Are you on the kid
• 1:03:36
  path? Yeah. Maybe in like a year. Right. You just got married? Yeah. How was that? It's good.
• 1:03:41
  Good. Yeah. It's exactly the same. Basically. Exactly the same. Right. I will say I think she
• 1:03:46
  chilled out a little bit. Oh, that's nice. Because you know, she's like, when are we getting married?
• 1:03:49
  I'm getting older, kids, eggs, all that shit. So once you got married, she was chilled out,
• 1:03:54
  and that was nice. Right. Okay. You went back to New Orleans for it? Yeah. All the town.
• 1:03:58
  Great. Fun. Have you been? Oh, yeah. Fun town. Fun town. You know, it's an interesting town.
• 1:04:05
  Oh, it's the most so many different signs to it. Most unique American city, I'd say. Most
• 1:04:10
  not even American. It's like a different place. Completely. It feels European and great.
• 1:04:15
  Rimey and held Hades via. It's got everything. Yeah. With ghosts and gays. Yeah. You know,
• 1:04:22
  crawfish. I got, I was, I was due to go to New Orleans for the first time on the weekend that
• 1:04:29
  I hurricane. What was not saying? Katrina. Katrina. That was when I first went to New York for
• 1:04:35
  any prolonged period of time. And I was going to go that weekend. And instead I went maybe about a
• 1:04:41
  year later and rented a car and drove around some of the areas that had been devastated. And
• 1:04:48
  that was, I mean, honestly, after driving through it, I had pulled a rental car over and I burst
• 1:04:52
  in the tears. Really? It was, yeah, a gay. No, it was. But no, I agree. I did it too. It was like,
• 1:05:02
  I mean, it was beyond places in the developing world. Crazy. Like it was. And you could see the
• 1:05:09
  spray paint on the, on a house, like X or O or that means two dead bodies, a dead dog,
• 1:05:15
  a empty, you know, heavy stuff. Heavy. And it didn't seem to have been rehabilitated in any.
• 1:05:23
  Really? For way. Like there were people still living. Yeah. Well, people living in these
• 1:05:27
  shells of houses. And like I can see, just figures like, and it was, it felt incredibly
• 1:05:33
  dangerous. I don't know what the people are doing when they're living there. But it felt like a
• 1:05:38
  break down. It felt like it felt dystopian and like walking dead in a way that, you know, going
• 1:05:43
  through India when people have no money, right? It is that there's this lower ninth ward, which is
• 1:05:49
  right by the river. And it got hit the worst. But it was always poor, gang, scary. And
• 1:05:56
  they got less help. It's, it's fucked up. But the rich neighborhoods got more help.
• 1:06:01
  And when you, when you were talking about, you know, needing to be, to have some kind of
• 1:06:06
  suffering and like if you're a poor kid, you know, the lobster analogy and that would,
• 1:06:11
  when you said you grew up poor, was that rough? Oh, yeah. Well, it was rough for me because I was
• 1:06:17
  the white kid in the neighborhood. So everyone was, soon we had money because we were white. And we
• 1:06:21
  didn't. So we just got robbed as, as poor people. Right. It sucked. So you have a TV and that's gone.
• 1:06:27
  Yeah. You know, and then just the idea as a kid of being like, well, there's someone in my house.
• 1:06:32
  I'm upstairs in my room and all arm is going off. Shit. And you're just like, oh, there's a guy
• 1:06:36
  in the house rummaging around. It's a little, I think that's why I'm so skittish. Fuck me.
• 1:06:40
  Bucks you up a little. Then you go out in the neighborhood and you got the bike and you go,
• 1:06:43
  hey, white boy, give me that bike. You know, you're like, ah, you got the, you get the hell out of
• 1:06:47
  there. I got my bike stolen so many times. And it's, it's not good for the psyche. What was useful
• 1:06:55
  from that experience? Growing up poor. I think, uh, reality kicks in. You kind of learn what's,
• 1:07:01
  what's real and what's not. And, uh, the world isn't fair. And it's kind of almost this survival
• 1:07:06
  thing kicks in. And I think when a survival thing kicks in, you really enjoy the good times more
• 1:07:13
  because you have so many bad. Now good shit happens and people are mad about the good shit.
• 1:07:17
  Like it's not good enough. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and, uh, everybody's like, I need to be happy.
• 1:07:22
  I don't feel happy. And I'm like, you got it. So good. You don't realize it. Uh, the reason
• 1:07:26
  you're unhappy is because how much, how good you have it. You get a little struggle. You might be
• 1:07:29
  happier. Right. So that, that part was good. And then, uh, I, you know, I learned a lot. I made
• 1:07:35
  friends. I, I learned how to adapt and make it work. So I wouldn't change it. But at the time,
• 1:07:42
  I would have changed it. Yeah. Did I make you tough? I think so. Mentally, I got beat up a lot.
• 1:07:47
  I'm not a good fighter. But I think mentally, yeah, because you're in a tough industry. I mean,
• 1:07:52
  that's, yeah, as a committee chosen a life that way you constantly get beaten around the head.
• 1:07:58
  It's a, you got to be a sewer rat. I always say you got to just figure it out. Even during the
• 1:08:01
  pandemic, we're up on the roof. We're in a field telling jokes. You got to adapt. Hmm. You got
• 1:08:06
  audible, play it audible. Yeah. Well, I mean, there's, so there's the, there's the respect in which
• 1:08:12
  your actual career is incredibly stressful because of the ups and downs. And you never know,
• 1:08:17
  how you're going to feed yourself in six months time, depending on what you can write and whether
• 1:08:20
  you're not, you're still the hot shit. Yeah. But then there's also just the experience of standing
• 1:08:25
  in front of a whole lot of people who aren't laughing, which must happen sometimes as well.
• 1:08:29
  Still happens. Does it? Yeah. And it annoys the shit out of me when these young comics will
• 1:08:33
  DM me or, or message me and go, Hey, can I pick your brain over coffee? And I'm like,
• 1:08:38
  get the fuck out of here. You think talking to me is going to help you at all. Go out there and do it.
• 1:08:43
  Yeah. You know, it's the worst, the worst question. I think they think it's flattering in some
• 1:08:47
  way. And I'm like, also, I don't want to waste my day. That's another one. I'm getting a
• 1:08:51
  lunch with Jerry. So I'm going to get a lunch with you. Exactly. Yeah. And trust me, I'm aware of
• 1:08:56
  how grateful. I'm a grateful that I can have lunch with Jerry. Yeah. That's amazing as well.
• 1:09:02
  Did hero, you know, it's, it's, as he would say, it's amazing life is that long that you can watch
• 1:09:08
  him with your parents on NBC prime time sign felled must see TV. And then one day do all these
• 1:09:15
  open mics and travel the road and get married and blah, blah, and then have lunch with him.
• 1:09:19
  What would you have thought if you taught if I told you when you were a kid in New Orleans,
• 1:09:23
  who you're going to have lunch with Jerry. So I feel like you'd have his number in your phone.
• 1:09:26
  I wouldn't believe it. And I would, I would sit in my room and just think about it and jerk off.
• 1:09:31
  Furiously masturbate with the person next to you on the subway. Exactly. It doesn't exist in
• 1:09:36
  New Orleans. Yeah. I remember you, you're living the dream. You made it. I mean, the funny
• 1:09:43
  thing about life is when you're living the dream, you're always looking at the next dream.
• 1:09:46
  So true. You never, you know, it's, you never stopped to smell the roses. So true. I mean,
• 1:09:50
  I came here with a friend who wanted to meet you. He gave up his day. Just, I was like, I don't
• 1:09:55
  think you do the pot. He's like, I don't want to do the pot. I'm not an idiot. I just want to
• 1:09:58
  meet him. I'm a fan. So that's a pretty cool. This is the, he's doing your, just to explain the,
• 1:10:03
  the listener. He's, he's your support act. You're open. Yes. That's the word. And when I showed up
• 1:10:08
  at the studio here, there was just this stranger. Yeah. On the sidewalk. And he introduced himself
• 1:10:14
  to me. Lovely young gentleman. Cute. And Adelaide. And yeah, a fan. I mean, it's, it's funny,
• 1:10:21
  isn't it? Yeah. I mean, I remember even seeing Letterman, you know, my greatest hero talking about
• 1:10:26
  how he was just always obsessed with and paralyzed with self-loathing. And he hadn't succeeded.
• 1:10:31
  He properly. He didn't get the tonight show. You know, for a long time, Jay Leno beat him
• 1:10:35
  in the writings. Yeah. He was a failure. That fucked him up. I know. But he, he shaped so many
• 1:10:41
  comedians now. I go to comics house. There's Letterman stuff everywhere. Uh, yeah, we're just not
• 1:10:48
  happy. But Letterman said somebody that always stuck with me because he so rarely does interviews
• 1:10:52
  and stuff that he, I read, I think he did a Rolling Stone interview and he said, I don't think I can
• 1:10:56
  handle not being a celebrity because I'm so sensitive that I need that extra niceness. And I
• 1:11:02
  completely agree with that. I could relate to that. Right. Right. Another fun letterman thing.
• 1:11:07
  Remember when he got me, dude? He got a, you know, he fucked those interns. And then he talked
• 1:11:11
  about it on his show. And he got a pause. They got everybody loved it. Yeah. Well, I mean, he was
• 1:11:17
  being blackmailed. Oh, was he remembered that? Yeah. I guess I forgot about that. Letterman did,
• 1:11:23
  Letterman only came out about it because he was being blackmailed. What I was just going to say was
• 1:11:28
  Colbert said something about bombing, which is like the year after the, what, where in his life
• 1:11:32
  change was when he learned to love bombing. And like sort of treat it like almost a curiosity,
• 1:11:38
  like not feel threatened by it. But just sort of almost to go into, almost once it started
• 1:11:44
  happening to just go with the bomb. That is, that is a skill. I don't have that. No. I panic and
• 1:11:51
  frazzle and freak out. I unwind. Yeah. Completely. But he's a, he's a very talented guy. I don't love
• 1:11:59
  the political, you know, like I loved Letterman because it was a comedy show. He's throwing
• 1:12:03
  shit off the roof. Yeah. Yeah. He's fucking with Madonna. Yeah. But now it's just so political. I
• 1:12:09
  don't want left or right. Greg Godfeld or Colbert. Yeah. Yeah. To me, I'm like, can we just have fun?
• 1:12:14
  Well, also, I mean, I wouldn't mind it if it was smart, but a lot of it's not clever. Yeah.
• 1:12:19
  Which is weird. I mean, I haven't, I'm talking about, you know, from the early days of the Trump
• 1:12:24
  administration here, like I haven't seen, I don't watch these things anymore. But, you know, I,
• 1:12:29
  I was very interested in what Colbert would do with Dave's show. And, you know, for about a year,
• 1:12:34
  it was just coming out and doing Donald Trump is dumb. Right. Right. Like I think we've all got the
• 1:12:40
  memo on on that. Yeah. And that cliche. This is not a revelation to me that this man is not the,
• 1:12:46
  the highest IQ who had been in the White House. Huge ratings. Because I think people just,
• 1:12:51
  he was in office. People hated him so much. Yeah. It's such vitriol towards him that I think
• 1:12:56
  they're like, I need to, I just need a guy in power with a suit on saying how stupid he is. Yeah.
• 1:13:02
  Yeah. Yeah. It's true. But I mean, you think, I mean, what I hope Colbert can, and what was
• 1:13:06
  amazing about Colbert when he had his comedy central show and John Stuart, they were able to be
• 1:13:11
  political, but they were so smart and unexpected about how they were doing it. It was never the
• 1:13:14
  straight way they were never just coming at it straight. Yeah. I knew what they were going to be
• 1:13:17
  saying completely the same with Johnny Carson and Letterman. I mean, Letterman was, yeah, he wasn't
• 1:13:22
  political, but man, he was clever. Like, he was so pitching so high. Yeah. And you mentioned the
• 1:13:28
  Madonna and if you have you watched that in the past five years, it's been a while now. Go back and
• 1:13:33
  watch it. Okay. It's amazing. Really? So again, during the pandemic, I went back and watched it's
• 1:13:38
  on YouTube in two parts. All right. Where Madonna just comes out and the first words out of
• 1:13:42
  them out there, fuck you, Dave. No, it's been too long. It's incredible. And he just right,
• 1:13:47
  he and she won't leave. She won't leave. She's just sitting there. He was the best in those moments.
• 1:13:52
  He was so good. Yeah. He's got a, a smile inside of his face. It's all tugging cheek. Yeah. And
• 1:13:57
  she's like, why do I have to leave? Why do I have to put up with this bullshit? Why can't I just
• 1:14:00
  stay here forever? And he says, it feels like you have done it. Come on. So quick. So good. So
• 1:14:08
  where do you see what's your ultimate aspiration? What would you want to do? Where do you want to be
• 1:14:13
  that will not have you looking for that next thing? Well, you'll actually feel successful.
• 1:14:18
  Well, that's a tough question because I, I love this level. I like doing the Enmore theater three
• 1:14:24
  times. I can walk down the street. I get one guy going, hey, comedy. And that's it. I can go
• 1:14:29
  to a restaurant. I can eat. I can go on a trip, sell out a theater and then just live my life. So
• 1:14:35
  it's tough because I feel like I've hit the ceiling and I have a Netflix special coming out in
• 1:14:38
  two weeks or whatever. And I'm nervous about part of me is like, I hope it kind of just does okay.
• 1:14:44
  I don't want it to blow up. So, uh, fame is does not seem fun to me. Right. I like a nice niche level
• 1:14:53
  of weirdo who knows who I am. You hit me up while I'm happy to do a pod. But I don't want to be
• 1:14:59
  important or have people come to me for whatever or people get mad at me and paparazzi. All that
• 1:15:06
  shit is a nightmare. You wouldn't do it. You wouldn't have Jerry, Jerry Sonnenfeld's life. No.
• 1:15:11
  Too much. Too much. He likes it. I just think it's too much. For me, I mean, what's wrong enough?
• 1:15:18
  It'd be crazy. Yeah. But I guess once you, once you have the, the wealth and the assets to
• 1:15:24
  insulate yourself from it. True. Like it's one thing if your Prince Harry, who never chose it
• 1:15:30
  and frankly, you know, doesn't have, you know, has to keep generating money somehow.
• 1:15:35
  I know to insulate yourself from the, from the hysteria of the British tabloids.
• 1:15:40
  But I feel like if you're, if your cash and royalty checks from the biggest sitcom of all time,
• 1:15:46
  you're just like, well, I don't have to worry about people and airport security. It's noticing
• 1:15:50
  how I am because I don't use airport security because I have a private jet, which goes from
• 1:15:54
  a private terminal and it's just like my own little bubble. That makes sense. But I think the little
• 1:15:59
  things would bug me. Gwalking out, I, we went to lunch right when we left the restaurant,
• 1:16:03
  swarmed photos, picture, people were ready with pictures like sign that somehow they knew he was
• 1:16:08
  there. It's, but really? Yeah. It's next level fan shit. Yeah. I mean, he's an American icon. You
• 1:16:14
  know, so there's, so there's some blog where people are like, Oh, Jerry's at the brick Brooklyn
• 1:16:20
  Delhi. I guess so. I guess so. But they, they were on it. They had headshots of him ready.
• 1:16:25
  Really? Yeah. And I didn't leak it. You didn't leak it. He says, no, I didn't leak that.
• 1:16:31
  So someone, isn't that interesting? I want to, I want to know how that happens. Is there,
• 1:16:36
  is there a social media like account, which is like, where's Jerry or something? And someone in
• 1:16:42
  the restaurant texts somebody and someone tweets it. And then there are people, Kim Kardashian,
• 1:16:47
  they all have that, I think, where they mentioned that would be the pits. Oh, I fucking hate that.
• 1:16:51
  Nightmare. Yeah. And then you got kids. You try to go somewhere with your kids and your wife.
• 1:16:56
  It's a lot. Can't take them to the park. No. Can't just sit there. But here's the other thing.
• 1:17:01
  Every celebrity I've met who's at that level, they wouldn't change. They wouldn't do the other
• 1:17:06
  way. So as much as many pitfalls as there are, they're not losing that jet. No. But then maybe
• 1:17:12
  that's because they were the type of person who wanted it. And you don't get it by accident.
• 1:17:17
  Good point. So you've already weeded out the people like you and me. Right.
• 1:17:22
  Because we're not going to get it by accident. But look, I used to move furniture. I was a janitor.
• 1:17:26
  To me, this is, this is, this is light. I mean, that's so true. So I guess lastly then,
• 1:17:32
  do you have any practice or any like getting into you mentioned Sam Harris, right?
• 1:17:37
  You know, the thing that he does that is the most fulfilling to him and his followers is meditation.
• 1:17:42
  Yeah. His mindfulness and is just being present and is kind of trying to recognize that the monkey
• 1:17:48
  mind is not the same as us. Right. And our tendency with the machinery and our heads is to spend all
• 1:17:54
  our time regretting the past and rethinking things and worrying about the future and never
• 1:18:00
  actually being present. Yes. In the moment, do you dabble in any of that? And do you have a,
• 1:18:06
  like, if the, I guess if the, if the question is not like what do you want in the material world,
• 1:18:11
  maybe it is like, how do you develop the mental state? That's what I got to work on. That's
• 1:18:16
  a good answer. I'm doing everything I want career wise. So I need to be a better mindful,
• 1:18:22
  relaxed, more accepting, stable person. That would be nice. So a good hill to climb. Right.
• 1:18:30
  You're going to need that when you meet the natives in New Zealand.
• 1:18:33
  You limb from limb. Oh my god. I got one opening for me. So that gives me some points. That's
• 1:18:39
  right. Exactly. Great to talk to you. Thank you for being on the show. I know you have to go and
• 1:18:43
  especially doing it before the show. How do you do this before the show? Now you have to go and
• 1:18:46
  relax. This is better for me because I'm not thinking about the show. Great. The more you think
• 1:18:51
  about it, the more the anxiety and the evil thoughts kick in. What show? Exactly. There was no show.
• 1:18:56
  No show. There was no spoon. World's in. Yeah. Great thank you.