Latest / The Scene Projects / Shiny Shiny Black : Music, Podcasting, and Creative Journeys

Transcript

Shiny Shiny Black : Music, Podcasting, and Creative Journeys · The Scene Projects

• 0:02
  This program is part of the Scene Projects podcast network.
• 0:06
  Scene Project features interviews with independent musicians, comedians, and artists
• 0:11
  from across the Midwest.
• 0:14
  Become part of our community and support local art wherever you are.
• 0:27
  Welcome in to another exciting episode of the scene.
• 0:30
  I'm your host Bubba Starts, and with me today is rock band, Shiny Shiny Black.
• 0:35
  Welcome to the show, guys.
• 0:36
  Hey.
• 0:39
  Well, we had a chance to meet at the Josie's, albeit briefly on the red carpet.
• 0:44
  I'm so glad that you signed up for the interview today.
• 0:47
  Off the top of the show, I'd love to just kinda give you the floor here and let you give us a
• 0:51
  little bit of your backstory, and then we'll catch up about all the fun stuff you're up to
• 0:55
  now.
• 0:57
  Backstory for us is with I I started the band in 2012 and have been working at it.
• 1:08
  And then Amber joined in 2015, 2014, somewhere around in there.
• 1:14
  And and we've been just kinda working away at at making music that hopefully builds people up
• 1:23
  and gives them a place to gather.
• 1:27
  So, you know, that's that's the the quick and short of it.
• 1:31
  And, oh, and I should mention, we we just put out a Christmas record called What Stops Time
• 1:36
  that's on all the streaming platforms.
• 1:38
  So if you hear this and you wanna some some Christmas music for, the rest of the holiday
• 1:45
  season, there's, there's some Yeah.
• 1:48
  Well, I don't know that this episode's gonna make it out before Christmas.
• 1:51
  We're we're pretty stacked up.
• 1:52
  But we
• 1:53
  are Okay.
• 1:54
  My god.
• 1:54
  Gonna see
• 1:55
  a Christmas party on December 21.
• 1:58
  So you will be featured on there.
• 2:00
  I'm gonna have you send me some m p threes once we get done here.
• 2:03
  We'll play your songs on the show.
• 2:05
  If you guys would like to come in with us at that time, you'll be more than welcome.
• 2:08
  People listening to this in the future, they were awesome on the show.
• 2:11
  So Yeah.
• 2:14
  It's good, mate.
• 2:15
  Talk to our future speakers.
• 2:18
  Yeah.
• 2:18
  Well, it's the nature of podcasting.
• 2:20
  Right?
• 2:21
  I try to batch as many episodes as I can early because summer's hit and then I'm on tour.
• 2:26
  Right?
• 2:26
  I'm a musician myself.
• 2:28
  I've been, you know, a musician for decades before I was ever a podcaster.
• 2:33
  And I became a podcaster because I saw I saw this need.
• 2:37
  I saw the need for this.
• 2:38
  More conversations about music with independent artists especially, was very fortunate to win
• 2:43
  the content creator of the year award from the Midwest Country Music Organization, just
• 2:48
  earlier this year.
• 2:49
  But that was really from my work in 2024 where I just, I mean, I showed up to their award show
• 2:53
  being a brand new member and just started putting microphones in people's faces.
• 2:56
  Oh,
• 2:56
  you know?
• 2:57
  Yeah.
• 2:57
  I
• 2:58
  I come come here at a table at, jam night the night before.
• 3:02
  My wife and I were there.
• 3:03
  We don't know anyone.
• 3:04
  Right?
• 3:04
  We know, like, two members, but this is a brand new organization.
• 3:07
  I said, man, I'm gonna sit down and do what I've always done, and I'm gonna have
• 3:10
  conversations with people and get to know them.
• 3:12
  And instead of milling around the room, I just sat down in one spot and we kind of filed them
• 3:16
  in.
• 3:17
  So the red carpet at the Josie's was a very familiar situation for me, albeit, I mean,
• 3:23
  ninety second or less interviews.
• 3:24
  I don't you guys were more towards the end, I think.
• 3:27
  It was maybe like a hello.
• 3:28
  Sign my autograph.
• 3:29
  Give me your business card.
• 3:30
  We'll chat later.
• 3:31
  Have a great night.
• 3:32
  It's more like a Cameo moment.
• 3:35
  Yeah.
• 3:35
  Well but I wanted to make sure that everyone got that moment, right,
• 3:39
  to
• 3:39
  to at least be interviewed by someone to have that picture on the red carpet.
• 3:44
  We're still working through, you know, chopping up the footage and putting it out there.
• 3:47
  I might just put them out there as eighteen minute long, you know, podcast interviews where
• 3:51
  it's just like, here, just just watch.
• 3:53
  Do you see what my three hours looked like in shorter clips?
• 3:57
  But what an experience.
• 3:58
  Now was that your guys' first time nominated?
• 4:03
  It was my first time
• 4:04
  Yeah.
• 4:04
  In our band's first time.
• 4:06
  Nate's been nominated as a producer, for a few projects.
• 4:10
  So that was your second year Yeah.
• 4:12
  My second year.
• 4:13
  So
• 4:14
  Yeah.
• 4:15
  Well, you've been doing this for a long time.
• 4:16
  I mean, to have had a band for twelve years is a long time now.
• 4:20
  Like, the same I know, Amber, you joined in 2015, but for the last ten years, like, lineup
• 4:25
  and, playing with the same where are you guys from?
• 4:29
  So we're we're in Northern Indiana.
• 4:32
  Okay.
• 4:32
  I saw the area code matched, matched some friends of mine in Indiana, so I had a pretty
• 4:37
  good inclination.
• 4:37
  But,
• 4:38
  like, the
• 4:38
  coast Chicago land area or farther east?
• 4:41
  We're a little further east, like, East of South Bend.
• 4:46
  In Elkhart County, it's Yeah.
• 4:48
  It's kinda more medium for towns and stuff.
• 4:52
  But we have a great little music scene here in our town, and there's quite a lot of folks that
• 4:58
  really value the music and art and stuff.
• 5:01
  So that's been a big part of our story and, like, why we could keep doing what we're doing.
• 5:08
  So and we're married.
• 5:09
  We've been married over twenty years, actually.
• 5:12
  Yep.
• 5:12
  So music's always been a part.
• 5:15
  But, no, we haven't always had the same lineup besides ourselves.
• 5:19
  So we have different backing players at different times, but the last couple years have
• 5:24
  been more solid
• 5:26
  Yes.
• 5:27
  With the lineup, and that's who we made these records with that were nominated, the nominated
• 5:32
  work we did for G.
• 5:33
  Awesome.
• 5:34
  Yeah.
• 5:34
  And that's gotta feel good for everyone in the band to to be recognized for that and to share
• 5:39
  that.
• 5:39
  I I ask because my band starts and ends is pretty much like me and a rotating cast of
• 5:45
  characters by the which is it's been really fun because I get to play with a lot of talented
• 5:52
  musicians.
• 5:53
  A lot of these people are friends and just part of my network regardless, but I'm always very
• 5:56
  jealous of people that get to, you know, play with the same people and grow as a band.
• 6:01
  Right?
• 6:02
  I I think there's something to that.
• 6:03
  I think your sound changes, and then you get to have fun and make a Christmas album.
• 6:07
  Right?
• 6:08
  Right.
• 6:08
  Right.
• 6:08
  Yeah.
• 6:09
  Album, it it covers, or is it original Christmas music that you guys wrote?
• 6:14
  Little of both.
• 6:15
  We, you know, have yourself a very little Christmas as the album opener, but Amber wrote
• 6:20
  some really great tunes that are a little bit more along the lines of, you know, Christmas
• 6:25
  isn't great for everybody all the time.
• 6:27
  And the so there's a few songs for for folks who find themselves maybe dealing with some
• 6:33
  some winter blues or or, you know, mixed feelings about the holiday.
• 6:38
  Mhmm.
• 6:39
  And, so it's kind
• 6:40
  of a a little of both.
• 6:43
  I it's such a a great point.
• 6:45
  Right?
• 6:45
  That, you know, especially for ones that have recently lost the loved ones, you know, when we
• 6:51
  lose especially, I feel like matriarchs of the family.
• 6:53
  Right?
• 6:54
  When you you lose a a mother or a grandmother that was kind of the anchor of the family, and
• 6:59
  then you don't have that anymore that the holidays become very hard for a lot of people.
• 7:03
  Or if you you know, a birthday or an like, anything.
• 7:06
  Right?
• 7:07
  So but we often forget that.
• 7:09
  Right?
• 7:09
  And sometimes it's hard because the whole world is, you know, jolly and you're not.
• 7:16
  Not.
• 7:16
  I feel harder.
• 7:17
  Right?
• 7:18
  I feel out right now.
• 7:19
  You know?
• 7:20
  Yeah.
• 7:21
  Yeah.
• 7:22
  So I think that's awesome.
• 7:23
  And to really dig into that, and that's what we as especially as independent artists, we're not
• 7:28
  necessarily making music to, like, sell a million records.
• 7:32
  Right?
• 7:32
  Like, that's not our purpose.
• 7:33
  The purpose is to to tell a story.
• 7:35
  And, you know, whether it's a personal story to you or just something that you've observed,
• 7:41
  it's kinda it's our job, right, to bring that to the to the forefront and to put it out there
• 7:47
  as art to be enjoyed or to tell someone else's story.
• 7:52
  And I think the longer that I'm in, the music business, I guess, we'll say, the industry now,
• 7:58
  hanging out at award shows and meeting more and more artists, it becomes more apparent to me
• 8:04
  that, like, oh, no.
• 8:05
  This is what we do is important.
• 8:06
  That that story because not everyone has that ability, but they need it just as much.
• 8:13
  Right.
• 8:14
  I I personally find that, like, there's a there's a huge need.
• 8:18
  I mean, can you imagine going to a sporting event without music or a wedding without music
• 8:24
  or a funeral without music?
• 8:26
  I mean, those those are these huge touchstone things that that people experience throughout
• 8:31
  their lives.
• 8:32
  And it's it's obvious when you kinda go through those different different scenes that that
• 8:40
  music is a really important part of sort of gathering people together.
• 8:44
  It's also really important part of personal expression, a place maybe to put your feelings
• 8:50
  about the thing that you're at and, you know, telling stories of what happened in your town
• 8:58
  or what happened in the town two towns over or to this person you know.
• 9:02
  All of those things really matter and create connection points for humans.
• 9:06
  You know?
• 9:08
  So I I do view the work as very important for sure.
• 9:13
  I think it's easy to forget as musicians because we're just like and we're such a
• 9:19
  different experience than someone who's just a music lover that doesn't have, skin in the game
• 9:24
  per se
• 9:24
  Mhmm.
• 9:25
  That you forget how important it is to people.
• 9:29
  And, yeah, I was watching, Jelly Roll was just on Joe Rogan again, and and what a
• 9:34
  transformation that that man has been through these last few years.
• 9:37
  But, live on the air, they shared with him.
• 9:40
  Craig Morgan got on and invited him into the Opry as a full member.
• 9:45
  Right?
• 9:45
  Oh, wow.
• 9:46
  To watch Jelly Roll breakdown.
• 9:48
  The clips are all over the Internet.
• 9:49
  I highly suggest that you check it out.
• 9:51
  You're, like, immediately immediately ask Joe Rogan for a hug.
• 9:55
  Right?
• 9:55
  It's just like, I I get made to hug somebody with, like, such a pimple in his life and
• 10:01
  career.
• 10:01
  And he was a big inspiration for me to kind of restart restart my music career.
• 10:07
  Little backstory on me.
• 10:08
  In 2016, I was sentenced to to a few years in prison for selling marijuana.
• 10:13
  So, I thought it was over.
• 10:15
  I thought my music career and everything was done.
• 10:17
  You know, I had young children at the time.
• 10:20
  And, obviously, getting out, it was like selling drugs and playing music wasn't gonna
• 10:23
  work anymore.
• 10:24
  And I have I I guess, like, intrinsically, like, combine those two.
• 10:29
  Like, those two are always together.
• 10:30
  Those two world.
• 10:31
  And seeing Jelly Roll and hearing his kind of reclamation story and his redemption story was
• 10:37
  like, oh, that's that's someone's story too.
• 10:39
  It's not.
• 10:40
  And and, yes, mine is in music or media or whatever you wanna call it, but, like, that
• 10:44
  story of going through some hard shit and then coming out on the other side of it a better
• 10:50
  person and then building a better life, that's not singular to me or to Jelly or to anyone.
• 10:57
  And we we are the storytellers, And that's, you hit on some great points there as you were
• 11:02
  going through.
• 11:03
  I couldn't have said it better myself, so I won't even try.
• 11:05
  That's awesome.
• 11:08
  So what's next?
• 11:09
  I mean, obviously, you got the Christmas album, but you guys are now nominees.
• 11:13
  Now did you win any awards at there?
• 11:15
  I there was such a blur.
• 11:17
  Right.
• 11:17
  Right.
• 11:18
  So Abby Thomas, who I had worked with producing her her last couple projects, what did win.
• 11:29
  She won a couple of awards.
• 11:31
  Yeah.
• 11:31
  Won female vocalist of the year
• 11:34
  Yeah.
• 11:35
  Multi
• 11:35
  genre and multi genre album of the year.
• 11:37
  Right.
• 11:37
  A couple of big ones, man.
• 11:39
  Yeah.
• 11:39
  And, obviously, you're a
• 11:41
  you're a big part of that.
• 11:43
  Yeah.
• 11:43
  So and I played drums for her for a couple years and also produced.
• 11:49
  She actually met me by coming to my recording studio in a moment of desperation where the
• 11:55
  previous producer that she had been working with had lost all of her files or or some some
• 12:01
  version of that, and, she needed me to kinda rescue the project, with with no budget.
• 12:07
  And so, yeah, that was kinda how we we connected and then ended up working with her,
• 12:15
  and and that was great.
• 12:16
  And she actually kind of inspired me to reengage the awards side of this business.
• 12:26
  I've actually been doing doing music since I was 13, and I'm gonna turn 50 this year.
• 12:34
  So You don't
• 12:35
  look a day over 39, buds.
• 12:37
  Thank you.
• 12:40
  But, so I I had become pretty cynical about pursuing any any kind of awards.
• 12:49
  And Abby really encouraged me to to give it another go and and to to put my hat in the
• 12:56
  ring, so to speak, a little bit and just see what happened.
• 13:00
  And it's it's been a really kind of transformative thing for us, I think, in the
• 13:04
  last couple years.
• 13:06
  It's certainly gotten a lot easier to book shows.
• 13:10
  When you have some some new fresh awards in the bottom of your email, it seems to carry a
• 13:15
  little more weight.
• 13:16
  And so that was great.
• 13:19
  So we didn't we didn't win, but even the fact that out of however the insane amount of
• 13:24
  entries that they had this year
• 13:26
  thousand or something, I think they sound crazy.
• 13:28
  Right.
• 13:29
  The fact that we were even finalists in the categories we were in, to me, meant meant a big
• 13:35
  deal, and it is a big deal to be to be even in the room.
• 13:38
  You know?
• 13:39
  And and makes it inspiring to try again.
• 13:43
  You know?
• 13:44
  So
• 13:45
  No.
• 13:45
  And, honestly, I'd never even been nominated for a war.
• 13:49
  I would consider myself a bit of a cynic.
• 13:50
  That's not why I do it.
• 13:52
  But having seen and having won the content creator, the the war you know, award with the
• 13:58
  Midwest Country Music Organization that to watch the doors open for me.
• 14:03
  Because now my I don't have to sit there and, like, explain what I do.
• 14:06
  And especially with a podcast, we're out here in the Midwest.
• 14:09
  Most people still don't really know.
• 14:10
  Like, it's it's building, but it's a slow build to, like, still having to explain what a
• 14:15
  podcast is and kind of, you know, easy now.
• 14:18
  I'm just like, you know what TV and radio used to be?
• 14:21
  Yeah.
• 14:21
  Well, it's a part of it.
• 14:23
  Right? Kind
• 14:23
  Kind of that.
• 14:24
  No.
• 14:24
  Yeah.
• 14:25
  But just seeing what it's done for me.
• 14:27
  Hi.
• 14:27
  I'm Bubba Starts.
• 14:28
  I you know, I'm the content creator of the year, or have I have an award winning podcast.
• 14:32
  Like, everybody's listening all of a sudden, and it's just such a simple thing.
• 14:37
  So, yeah, not having not really been a part of any of that previously in my career to see what
• 14:43
  doors it's open for me and a lot of my friends, fellow Midwest CMO members, and to see what
• 14:49
  they've done with their awards or even just the nomination.
• 14:52
  Right?
• 14:52
  The Josie nominations are so massive that, you know, it matters.
• 14:57
  You know?
• 14:57
  You're being nominated for a Grammy.
• 14:59
  We had, I don't know if you're familiar with Cheryl b Inglehart.
• 15:02
  She has a Totally.
• 15:03
  Called In the Key of Success, two two time Grammy nominee now.
• 15:08
  She found me, and I saw her name pop on my calendar.
• 15:11
  It's the first time that I, like, fanboy.
• 15:13
  Well, man, like, my third interview was with Bill Payne, who's the founder of Little Feet.
• 15:17
  Right?
• 15:17
  Or or one of the Right.
• 15:18
  Wow.
• 15:19
  You're like, hi.
• 15:20
  Hi.
• 15:21
  Oh
• 15:21
  my god.
• 15:21
  It was my fourth interview on the show outside of, like, my close friend group.
• 15:25
  And, we had a forty five minute conversation just talking music and a guy that has worked
• 15:29
  with all your heroes, right, as a session musician working, you know, doing records with
• 15:34
  Barbara Streisand.
• 15:35
  He was like, yeah.
• 15:35
  I didn't even know I was on that record until I got the check.
• 15:38
  Right?
• 15:38
  Like, you know, like, the a royalty came in, and I was like, oh, cool.
• 15:42
  You know?
• 15:43
  But talk about, you know, people that just did it for the music, and they just recently got
• 15:47
  nominated for their first Grammy this year, which is crazy.
• 15:51
  You know, this band has been around since the early seventies and just now getting
• 15:55
  recognized.
• 15:56
  And a much different sound now that, you know, that's not Dixie Chicken anymore.
• 15:59
  They're really like a hardcore blues band now.
• 16:02
  Yeah.
• 16:02
  And, you know, was able to get my mom tickets to go see them at Red Rocks with the Avett
• 16:07
  Brothers and,
• 16:08
  No.
• 16:09
  Come on.
• 16:10
  That's awesome.
• 16:11
  From this silly podcast, right, that I decided to start because, you know, I I saw a need.
• 16:16
  I saw a need because I, as myself, went out.
• 16:18
  I was on the local news and radio, and it just wasn't enough.
• 16:22
  I barely had any time to tell my story and to get that out there.
• 16:26
  So it just became obvious that, like, okay.
• 16:28
  We're gonna do this.
• 16:28
  And then I I've probably taken it a few degrees left of center with a lot of things.
• 16:34
  Just bringing, you know, the songwriter showcases and filming everything.
• 16:39
  Bringing everything that MTV and VH one used to be when I was growing up in Rolling Stone and
• 16:44
  kinda like, okay.
• 16:45
  Well, now none of you guys are even doing that anymore, and you're only supporting this, like,
• 16:49
  tiny little sliver of artists at the top when there's more independent artists now than ever.
• 16:56
  And all of them need what we're doing.
• 16:58
  So, yeah, what a what a pleasure to get to do the Joe season, and what an experience.
• 17:03
  I mean, tell me about it.
• 17:04
  So we we've had a couple of nominees on and have interviewed a couple of winners, but
• 17:08
  what's the anticipation like as they're reading your name off up there and the butterflies in
• 17:13
  your stomach?
• 17:14
  And I know you didn't win this year.
• 17:15
  Obviously, excited when your friend Abby wins.
• 17:18
  I'm good friends with Jasmine Cain who won a couple of awards and performed that night.
• 17:22
  So I kind of know that experience.
• 17:24
  But tell us about, you know, is there a little bit of you know, is there any disappointment
• 17:30
  not winning, when, you know, you're kinda cynical about it anyway?
• 17:38
  No.
• 17:38
  I think, like, I'm just grateful to be in the room at this point.
• 17:43
  The fact that, like, we've been able to make a life that where we get to do music and talk to
• 17:49
  people at 10:00 in the morning about music is is great.
• 17:54
  You know?
• 17:54
  And I'm just I just you know, I I think because I have been cynical about it, I don't have a
• 18:02
  lot of expectations around it at this point.
• 18:06
  It's just more, like, fun to be a participant.
• 18:10
  I that's my experience.
• 18:11
  How do you feel
• 18:12
  about I I would say I am definitely still vulnerable to disappointment because, you know,
• 18:18
  you hope for the best.
• 18:19
  You know?
• 18:21
  But not in a sense of, like, oh, I'm gonna be stuck here forever in this feeling.
• 18:25
  You know?
• 18:26
  But, yeah, there's there's some disappointment when you feel like you've done good work, and
• 18:30
  it would help all the things.
• 18:32
  Like you're saying, you know, it just helps.
• 18:34
  I think going in, I was sharing with a friend, like, I'm trying the biggest thing is just to
• 18:41
  keep a bigger view in your mind.
• 18:43
  Like, you've done the work.
• 18:44
  You're here.
• 18:45
  You you don't have control over whether it's recognized or in what way, and and that's okay
• 18:50
  in, like, being good with that.
• 18:53
  So I think it is good to keep taking those swings because like Nate said, it's like, okay.
• 19:00
  For a bunch of years in the middle, we just didn't even submit to anything.
• 19:03
  You know?
• 19:04
  Because it's like, what's the point or whatever?
• 19:06
  So you might be surprised, you know, and the different things.
• 19:11
  We did we did win an award this year.
• 19:13
  We've gotten a a few nominations in different organizations.
• 19:18
  We won an Indiana award called the Naptones.
• 19:21
  And so that has been great to start typing in the booking emails.
• 19:24
  You know?
• 19:25
  Award winning.
• 19:25
  Award winning artists even though, you know, it's one of
• 19:29
  the more regional local ones or whatever, and that's fine.
• 19:32
  That's a good starting point.
• 19:33
  And
• 19:34
  Yeah.
• 19:34
  It doesn't it doesn't matter.
• 19:36
  I mean, because for us, like, with the Midwest CMO, the members vote on them.
• 19:42
  Well, I had had, like we're only 300 members strong, and I had had most of the artists that
• 19:47
  are in it on my show.
• 19:49
  So I gotta juice the voting box.
• 19:51
  Right?
• 19:51
  Not not that.
• 19:53
  You're like
• 19:53
  So they didn't even have the content creator award the year prior.
• 19:57
  It was a new award, but as soon as I saw it on the nomination list, I was like, oh, I'm I have
• 20:01
  a good chance of winning that.
• 20:02
  Right?
• 20:03
  Like, there's not a lot of people in our small org that are necessarily doing what I'm doing.
• 20:08
  And, you know, but I've seen a lot of other people since then getting into it.
• 20:14
  And I'm always encouraging everyone.
• 20:15
  Like, look.
• 20:16
  If you're a band, you should have a podcast.
• 20:17
  You guys got something to talk about.
• 20:19
  You can spend fifteen, twenty minutes putting out this weekly content.
• 20:22
  It's important.
• 20:23
  And then you should be trying to get on as many podcasts as you can.
• 20:26
  Because the way that AI works now and AI SEO, right, is that the more content you have out
• 20:34
  there, the better it's going to track.
• 20:36
  So when people go to search your name, it's not necessarily about your website or those things.
• 20:40
  It's about the micro content you have.
• 20:43
  So the more times your name is showing up and and doing those things is great.
• 20:47
  And then it's gonna build a profile off of you.
• 20:49
  So when people go into search and go, you know, who is Bubba Starts?
• 20:53
  There is a soliloquy in there now that's like, oh, man.
• 20:56
  You know?
• 20:57
  And and I I every once in a while, I go and type it into chat GPT and see if it's changed
• 21:03
  at all what the, you know, what the artificial intelligence thinks of who I am.
• 21:08
  And it doesn't go and dig up my criminal record.
• 21:10
  Right?
• 21:10
  Like, it's not going back and digging up all of the dirt.
• 21:13
  It's doing nothing but delivering on the awards and the nominations and the places you've been
• 21:18
  and the people you've been connected to.
• 21:20
  So that's why it's so important to do.
• 21:22
  And congratulations to you on your what what was the name of the award again?
• 21:28
  It's called the Naptones.
• 21:30
  It's based in Indianapolis, so they have that Naptones music awards.
• 21:35
  Yeah.
• 21:35
  Very cool.
• 21:36
  Well, I'm gonna put in for credentials for that one next year and
• 21:38
  kinda come out and
• 21:39
  see you guys.
• 21:40
  Is it, you know, obviously, it's gratifying to win, but is it is it motivating to have been
• 21:48
  nominated but then to not win?
• 21:50
  I mean, not that you're like, we always do our best.
• 21:52
  Right?
• 21:53
  But does it send you back to the drawing board that we're always going back to as artists?
• 21:59
  Does it send you back there with, like, well, maybe we could do that.
• 22:02
  Maybe the production could be a little better.
• 22:05
  Maybe the songwriting, you know, could be a little bit different, or is it not really in
• 22:09
  your mind at all?
• 22:13
  For me, it's kinda all wrapped up in, like, how does a song connect with our audience
• 22:18
  primarily?
• 22:20
  Like, and are people loving this or not?
• 22:22
  And the awards are kind of the upper layer.
• 22:24
  Like, yeah, they you know, it's always like, oh, what can we try next or whatever?
• 22:30
  You know?
• 22:30
  But it it I think, first of all, I think the more we know is a song doing its job, and if we
• 22:36
  can get better and better at that, that's, like, the most exciting part, I
• 22:39
  think.
• 22:40
  Mhmm.
• 22:41
  You
• 22:41
  know?
• 22:42
  Yeah.
• 22:42
  I I completely agree
• 22:43
  with that.
• 22:43
  Does feel like if you are doing your job, then, yeah, then that attention or the award should
• 22:48
  follow.
• 22:49
  That's it's kinda like a validation thing.
• 22:51
  But at the same time, as we know, lots of people are doing really good work, and maybe
• 22:56
  they get recognition, maybe they don't, or maybe they get it thirty years later like you
• 23:00
  were saying with the Grammys.
• 23:03
  I mean, the Grammys are like the holy grail.
• 23:05
  Right?
• 23:06
  It's a complicated process for the Grammys and all that.
• 23:12
  A I know you have the recording studio.
• 23:14
  You've been nominated.
• 23:15
  Now you're kind of included in Abby's win, and you've won awards with her.
• 23:19
  Is it a different feeling being a part of that project and having your own name and your own
• 23:25
  band up on the up on the screen behind the stage, especially at the Opry?
• 23:31
  Yeah.
• 23:32
  Speaking for myself, absolutely.
• 23:34
  I think partly because being being a record producer has been a really important part of my
• 23:40
  life for the last of almost thirty years.
• 23:44
  But, especially in the during the pandemic, I got really clear, because I had a lot of time
• 23:53
  to think, that I really wanna be an artist.
• 23:57
  I don't I don't want to you know, getting into audio engineering and and mixing was something
• 24:03
  that I did as a as a means to an end.
• 24:07
  It was a stopgap side hustle kind of a an attempt.
• 24:13
  And I really, really you know?
• 24:17
  So because of that, I don't have as much meaning attached to being the producer for
• 24:22
  Abby's project as I do now for my own work.
• 24:26
  And and so, yeah, it it definitely feels different to be not not just a part of the
• 24:34
  team, but kind of the the the reason the team exists in that sense.
• 24:40
  And, you know, and so and to be able to bring, my my guys, my band into that room for that
• 24:48
  reason felt really special, for sure.
• 24:52
  Yeah.
• 24:53
  No doubt.
• 24:53
  It's different for, like you said, a means to an end is perfect because I think there's a lot
• 24:59
  of people who are artists that get into the production side to, like, be the real job.
• 25:04
  Right?
• 25:05
  Like, to have an income because, you know, you're never gonna make a living playing music
• 25:09
  and what a load of hogwash that is anyway.
• 25:12
  Mhmm.
• 25:12
  Is it hard as hell?
• 25:13
  Yeah.
• 25:14
  It it's tough.
• 25:15
  Right?
• 25:15
  But you can you can do it, and, we try to dispel a lot of those myths on this show and
• 25:21
  with our organization, the Midwest Original Music Organization, which is really just about
• 25:26
  educating people.
• 25:27
  We get together on YouTube and invite everyone to kinda throw comments, and we have some
• 25:31
  industry experts I call and come on with us.
• 25:34
  I'd love to have you as a part of that show, Nate, and to have you come in and share some of
• 25:39
  the production tips with us maybe and a little bit of that background.
• 25:41
  I think that'd be really awesome.
• 25:43
  So make sure I get you a calendar link for that
• 25:45
  sometime.
• 25:46
  He may have entered it as a side hustle, but he's actually really terrific at Well,
• 25:52
  award winning producer.
• 25:55
  So I think you're kind of you know, your work speaks for itself in that realm, but it's
• 25:59
  different.
• 26:00
  It's different from, like, Rick Rubin was a producer, and that was all.
• 26:04
  He wasn't an artist.
• 26:06
  He was never trying to be an artist.
• 26:07
  That was never his role, and he was always off in the back, you know, kind of letting them be
• 26:12
  artists.
• 26:13
  I think it's different when you're playing that, you know, kind of dual role where, you
• 26:17
  know and I'm sure with with Abby that you have this as you're watching her.
• 26:21
  And, yes, you're a part of it, but there's the artist side of you inside of that that's like
• 26:26
  going well, man, that could be me too.
• 26:28
  Right?
• 26:28
  And now having the nominations is like, oh, this we are this close from winning that award
• 26:33
  and being recognized as the person, you know, behind the microphone instead of behind the
• 26:39
  board.
• 26:39
  So, yeah, interesting position.
• 26:42
  I I feel like
• 26:45
  the let's be really frank about this.
• 26:48
  The reason why we're in the room is the song and the way the song was delivered.
• 26:53
  And I think, you know, no matter how good of a job you do as a producer, you are not that.
• 27:01
  You know?
• 27:02
  You're not the person who wrote the song, and you're not the person who delivered it.
• 27:05
  And so there's always an aspect to which you're one step removed in that role in in my opinion.
• 27:15
  And and so to be to be, I guess, kind of in that space for, for us was really meaningful.
• 27:23
  How incredible.
• 27:24
  And I'm sure you produce all all of your own records.
• 27:27
  You still have the recording studio then?
• 27:29
  Yes.
• 27:30
  Like, about 10 feet that way.
• 27:33
  Awesome.
• 27:34
  That's awesome.
• 27:34
  So, yeah, making records for you guys is maybe a little bit easier than some other people that
• 27:39
  don't have the the capacity to do it.
• 27:41
  Like, I have all the equipment.
• 27:43
  Right?
• 27:43
  I got my seven b.
• 27:44
  I got like, I have all the pieces, but I'm, like, totally inept behind on board.
• 27:51
  Right?
• 27:51
  So I I work with some good friends of mine.
• 27:53
  You know, he went to school for it, but his studio's five hours away.
• 27:57
  And it's it's nice to be able to, you know, I can send him tracks, and he plays guitar and
• 28:02
  bass.
• 28:03
  He could build the whole song.
• 28:04
  Right?
• 28:04
  He can play all the instruments.
• 28:05
  He can play all of them better than most people.
• 28:08
  He plays drums in a rock band, but he's one of the most talented guitarists I know.
• 28:12
  He plays with a band called Kenny Fiddler and the Cowboy Killers who are touring all over
• 28:16
  millions of streams on Spotify right now and, you know, touring with the Josh Beloys and and
• 28:21
  a lot of, you know, major acts as their opening acts.
• 28:25
  And to have him as a part of that is great, but it's also like, I don't wanna just, like, send
• 28:30
  you a demo and you build the whole song and then I throw you a vocal track.
• 28:34
  Like, I wanna be in the studio.
• 28:36
  And I was very grateful to have that opportunity last December to jump in with him
• 28:41
  and a bass player, and he played drums and just hit record and and to make music.
• 28:46
  And to see I mean, it took us a whole year to kinda with dubs and everything to finally get
• 28:50
  it, but I finally released my first EP in over a decade this year.
• 28:55
  We did a couple of singles.
• 28:57
  But, yeah, I I would love to send it to you and to see what you think of some of the songs.
• 29:01
  And maybe in the future, we we can work on an album together.
• 29:05
  I can come out to Indiana.
• 29:06
  I got lots of friends in the Chicagoland area, lots of family yet that I wouldn't mind
• 29:11
  spending a a little bit of time with and Yeah.
• 29:14
  Come out for a few days and jump in the studio and just create.
• 29:18
  Like, that's I I'm getting back into that phase of my life, I feel like, you know, is that I
• 29:23
  have a lot of the recordings that I've done over the last few years have been, like, old
• 29:28
  songs.
• 29:28
  Right?
• 29:28
  Like, some of the songs on this new EP, wrote in 2010.
• 29:32
  Like, I'm a completely different person now
• 29:35
  than I was then, And
• 29:37
  I haven't necessarily been writing a bunch just because I haven't had that spark, but I feel
• 29:42
  like that's coming back.
• 29:44
  Obviously, having a, you know, now a business and as the podcast is growing in fame, it's
• 29:49
  actually starting to make a little bit of money now so I can call it a living.
• 29:54
  That it affords me to be able to create a little bit more and to do some fun stuff too.
• 30:01
  That's awesome.
• 30:02
  Well
• 30:04
  You should say about James.
• 30:06
  Yeah.
• 30:07
  James so you one of the things that excited me about your podcast is the the premise of
• 30:15
  community and and how how music can affect community.
• 30:21
  And we just wrapped up a a project here last night, actually, about 10:30, that was a a a
• 30:34
  gentleman from our community who retired, moved to this area after he retired, and has always
• 30:41
  had a dream of making a project.
• 30:45
  And I think, ultimately, he he wanted to record his songs, but he also wanted to meet people.
• 30:52
  He wanted he's never been in a band.
• 30:54
  He's never been a musician professionally or or even, you know, doing a cover band kind of
• 31:01
  thing for fun.
• 31:03
  And so for him, kind of always on the outside looking in, getting the opportunity to come to
• 31:07
  studio and not just record his songs, but get to meet some of the other sort of regional
• 31:13
  heroes playing on his record.
• 31:16
  I think that was very, rewarding and even emotional experience for him, and it was really
• 31:21
  fun to be able to facilitate that, that connection point.
• 31:25
  I I think you're right.
• 31:26
  The thing that you said about wanting to get in the studio with people, I don't think music is
• 31:32
  something that is really meant to be done in isolation.
• 31:36
  I know that for economic reasons, a lot of us end up doing, like, sort of the singer
• 31:40
  songwriter thing or the solo performer or or duo because you can't always afford to find a
• 31:47
  whole band and go out on the road.
• 31:50
  But I do think, ultimately, the experience of getting in a room either with your friends to
• 31:55
  just jam or getting into a room with a bunch of people to share your songs, it's it's an
• 32:00
  innately social art form.
• 32:04
  I think it's really unique in that way.
• 32:07
  And and, you know, back to this gentleman that was here, it's really rewarding to see him get
• 32:13
  to interact with these musicians that he's only paid tickets to see before, you know, and
• 32:18
  hasn't even met any of them personally, but he knows who they are and and, you know, sort of
• 32:23
  facilitate that happening.
• 32:24
  Was really fun.
• 32:25
  It was really rewarding.
• 32:28
  It's that exchange of energy, right, in the room, and I was very fortunate.
• 32:33
  So Love Noise is the name of our show on Wednesday nights.
• 32:36
  I kinda combined our Momo meetup Love Noise where I have an artist on, and we share some of
• 32:41
  their music as well, which you're gonna double as both when we bring you in, and we're gonna
• 32:45
  listen to some shiny shiny black.
• 32:47
  And we're gonna have you on as our music expert as well, but shout out to Jeff Jeff Suma and
• 32:52
  the roasters, jam band from Connecticut.
• 32:55
  And Mhmm.
• 32:55
  Every song he sent me was, like, nine minutes long.
• 32:58
  Right?
• 32:58
  All of
• 32:59
  our recordings are Classic.
• 33:00
  And and you can't make that, like, dubbing tracks.
• 33:03
  Right?
• 33:04
  Like, did they add the leads in later and stuff, but the grooves and the, you know, kinda
• 33:07
  funky and jammy.
• 33:08
  I'm a big Grateful Dead fan.
• 33:10
  He is as well.
• 33:11
  So, you know, he he was out on tour with the dead long time ago, and I it was just really
• 33:17
  I'm so jealous of that because and and, unfortunately, for me, like, I live in the
• 33:20
  middle of nowhere.
• 33:21
  Right?
• 33:21
  Like, I'm in a town of a thousand people in the middle of the cornfields in Eastern South
• 33:25
  Dakota.
• 33:26
  There's just not a lot of players, period.
• 33:28
  And then to find people that are into the same kind of music that you are or want to play
• 33:33
  your, you know, your songs, you know, I kinda have this whole catalog of original music that
• 33:39
  it's always like, well, here's my songs.
• 33:42
  And then I I felt I feel like, okay.
• 33:45
  Well, we're building this, and I'm the front of the band.
• 33:47
  Like, we have to learn the songs that I've already written before I'm ready to, like,
• 33:51
  write new material that we're all gonna write together.
• 33:54
  You know?
• 33:55
  So and it it could take years for people to learn all that and finding people that are as
• 34:00
  dedicated as we all are to our craft and to music.
• 34:05
  And, I mean, it's almost a it's a double edged sword out here because on the one hand, we make
• 34:10
  pretty decent money to go play live.
• 34:12
  You know, my band makes, you know, a thousand or more to go out and perform, which for people
• 34:16
  in larger cities are like, holy shit.
• 34:18
  What?
• 34:19
  Yeah.
• 34:20
  Well, you get paid to do that.
• 34:22
  You didn't have to pay to go in and perform and but then also you have a lot of guys that are,
• 34:28
  you know, I don't wanna say mediocre, but they're not they're weekend warriors or they're
• 34:35
  they're not practicing at home and working on the craft all the time and really taking it
• 34:39
  seriously because you can show up because there's a lack of competition.
• 34:43
  Can show You're make a couple $100
• 34:45
  a night.
• 34:45
  You're gonna get free drinks and have
• 34:47
  a great time.
• 34:48
  So there's not the dedication that a lot of us put into this.
• 34:52
  You know?
• 34:52
  Like, music is my life.
• 34:54
  And especially, you know, having left my welding job almost two years ago now, which
• 34:59
  seems totally crazy, that, like, my dedication to it and someone who is, you know, working
• 35:04
  fifty hours a week, might have a family and a wife and all those things, They only have a few
• 35:09
  hours to dedicate to it, and then they're not is, like, we're not in the same game.
• 35:16
  You know?
• 35:16
  Like It's true.
• 35:17
  It's true.
• 35:18
  It's very different.
• 35:19
  So, yeah, always appreciate appreciate you guys for just coming in and talking with me today.
• 35:26
  I wanna give you a chance to plug everything.
• 35:28
  Make sure you mention the studio websites, all that stuff.
• 35:31
  And any final thoughts before I let you go as well?
• 35:34
  Well, before before we plug anything, I just wanted to offer you and and, you know, your
• 35:40
  community a little bit of encouragement.
• 35:42
  One of the things that was really transformational around here and why why our
• 35:48
  town, which is, in the scheme of things, not a very big town.
• 35:51
  It's thirty thirty six thousand, 38,000, somewhere in that neighborhood, which is a
• 35:56
  small town to have a pretty significant major music scene.
• 36:02
  And but the iron irony to me of that is that it all started with a coffee shop in 1996 that was
• 36:10
  doing pay what you want folk concerts.
• 36:13
  And at the time, for me, I was just out of high school, and I couldn't afford to go to big
• 36:20
  ticketing concerts all the time.
• 36:22
  They weren't even around all the time.
• 36:24
  And but just and I wasn't old enough to go to a bar.
• 36:27
  Right?
• 36:28
  So what do you what do you do?
• 36:30
  And to be able to, like, have the opportunity to to meet actual musicians who were working
• 36:39
  and rub shoulders with them, and and it was a low low cost.
• 36:45
  I didn't have a lot of money.
• 36:46
  And so being able to to come in and throw a couple bucks in the hat, you know, created an
• 36:52
  opportunity for me to to meet people and see people.
• 36:55
  And that began a whole transformation of our downtown that led to really, a a reinvigoration
• 37:05
  of our whole, like, the foot traffic in our community.
• 37:09
  There's actual stores downtown.
• 37:11
  Everything was boarded up thirty years ago.
• 37:14
  And, you know, music did that, actually.
• 37:18
  And out of that, then some pretty significant people, I could rattle off a list, I'll spare
• 37:23
  you, but came out of that for the same reasons.
• 37:27
  They were kids in high school who could go suck at music in public and get that feedback.
• 37:34
  And and, and some of them kept at it and were like, hey.
• 37:38
  You're pretty good.
• 37:39
  Like you know?
• 37:40
  And so that motivated them to keep going.
• 37:42
  And and some of those people now are the people playing on the records that I'm producing.
• 37:47
  They're Abby Thomas' band.
• 37:49
  They're our band.
• 37:50
  You know?
• 37:51
  And and none of that would have existed without something really simple, putting people
• 37:57
  together in a room with hot drinks and some some occasionally good music and, and at a very
• 38:04
  low low cost.
• 38:05
  And and I think that's something that that can happen in almost any community.
• 38:11
  It doesn't nobody has to be good at the start.
• 38:14
  That's part of the point.
• 38:15
  Right?
• 38:16
  Is that that, you know, you can have an open mic and just let people come in and play, you
• 38:22
  know, just as I am on a harpsichord, and it's fine.
• 38:25
  That's or auto harp.
• 38:28
  That's what I meant.
• 38:29
  Auto harp.
• 38:30
  Harpsichord.
• 38:31
  Would be
• 38:31
  Auto yeah.
• 38:32
  That'd be a thing to drag into a coffee shop.
• 38:34
  But autoharp, you know, I because I've seen that.
• 38:38
  I've seen people do that or come in with their their one string, you know, canjo or whatever
• 38:43
  it is.
• 38:44
  And You guys have a pretty interesting music community in your little town.
• 38:50
  Yeah.
• 38:50
  It's amazing.
• 38:51
  It's truly amazing.
• 38:53
  So, anyways, I just wanted to throw that out because I think sometimes, like, downtowns will
• 38:58
  try to start a downtown association and get their first Fridays program going.
• 39:03
  And it's like but if you don't have those those relationships built already in your community,
• 39:09
  that doesn't really work very well.
• 39:12
  But if you can just get some people in the room and start hanging out with them, that's that's
• 39:17
  the thing that actually changes everything.
• 39:20
  So, anyways, Nimbleweb Productions is our our recording studio.
• 39:24
  Shiny shiny black is our band.
• 39:27
  And
• 39:27
  Just the main website's shinyshinyblack.com.
• 39:31
  Not hard.
• 39:31
  And we have, you know, a studio page on there that talks more about what we do on there and
• 39:37
  how you can get in touch with us.
• 39:39
  And, yeah, we love meeting new people.
• 39:43
  And
• 39:43
  Yeah.
• 39:44
  And thanks thanks for your show, man.
• 39:45
  Yeah.
• 39:45
  This is great.
• 39:46
  Thanks for inviting us on.
• 39:48
  Yeah.
• 39:48
  Well, we we've been I'm planning a national tour for March right now and getting out mostly
• 39:55
  into the South back to Nashville and then, you know, all the way around.
• 39:58
  Trying to hit south by Southwest and be in the zone, meeting more artists.
• 40:02
  That's really what my focus is for 2026, testing out more markets.
• 40:06
  I've seen what we do work.
• 40:09
  Our songwriter showcases, we come in with broadcast, you know, level quality cameras, and
• 40:14
  we do this with the music.
• 40:17
  And Love Noise is a little bit of that.
• 40:18
  I'm trying to recreate what we've done digitally in live settings and to bring as much
• 40:24
  community and connecting the scenes.
• 40:26
  Right?
• 40:27
  That's kinda why it's the scene projects is it's not just about one scene.
• 40:30
  It's about your scene and my scene and everyone's scene being connected because that's
• 40:36
  what's going to help us grow and to send everybody out on tour knowing that you have
• 40:41
  that, that coffee shop to land in in every town.
• 40:45
  Right?
• 40:45
  And to be that connection.
• 40:46
  So, I've been I've had people begging me to come through, you know, all the way out to
• 40:51
  Pennsylvania and Connecticut, and, Indiana would be right smack in the way of that.
• 40:56
  So, maybe I'll be planning a a summer tour to get out that way and, come come check you guys
• 41:03
  out and everything you
• 41:04
  got going on.
• 41:04
  Be sure to hit us up if as you're planning that because we we are big believers in trying to
• 41:09
  create those connections and create opportunities for for other people, to to come
• 41:14
  bring what they've got to to our community and, obviously, for us to go out.
• 41:19
  So we'd we'd love to help help make that happen.
• 41:22
  Awesome.
• 41:22
  Well, it's, it is written then, and and it shall be done.
• 41:26
  And, guys, thank yeah.
• 41:28
  Thank you so much for coming on the show, and thank you for being part of the scene.
• 41:33
  Absolutely.