Latest / Intentionally Blank / Sinners Review — Intentionally Blank Ep. 283

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Sinners Review — Intentionally Blank Ep. 283 · Intentionally Blank

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Dan! Hi! I get to see you again.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's been a long time.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: You were gone, then I was gone, then you were gone, then I was gone.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_02: No, we broke up.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_02: We were on a break.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_02: We were on a break.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_02: We were having our dalliances with other co-hosts.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: We did do that, didn't we?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no, and then we decided, no, you're the one.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was always you.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, I've missed you, Dan.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: I actually have missed you because I went and like watched a movie that you told me to watch.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then I haven't been able to talk to you about it, even though you've been at writing group multiple times.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have not let myself say a word because I got to save it for the podcast.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know, and we're gonna talk about it today.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Except you haven't been here for a while, and I haven't been here for a while.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: I am starved.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: Oh okay.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna love this one.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I'm excited already.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: A bunch of people sent this to me a while ago.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, and I've been saving it.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: When I did an episode with Donald, I was like, I'm not gonna do this one.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: You saved it for me.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: I saved it for you.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: Brandon special.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so it isn't gonna sound cool until I get to the key part.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, all right.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I will hold myself back.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: In Egypt, six guys stole 105 kilograms of chicken.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, from the back of a truck while it was speeding down the highway.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so an actual heist.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_02: An actual like fast and the furious heist.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: There is video of this.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to see?
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: Here.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely want to see.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_00: And they should be playing on screen now.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the fast uh the fast and the pharaohless.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: The fast and the pharaoh-ish.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a pharaoh needs his chicken.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh these guys are good, these guys get to go to food heist prison.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's the sad part of the story.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Three of them get to go to food heist prison.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: As you can guess by the fact that you just watched a video of them doing it, the police caught them real quick.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there was a shootout, and three of them died, which is very sad.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Don't bring guns on your food heist, it's not worth it.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they they caught up to them like at their hideout or something.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: That makes it too real.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Fast and the pharaoh-ish.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Fast and the pharaohish.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Did they get embalmed?
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_02: Did didn't.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: This is too real and too sad.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Also, did they pull any organs out from their noses?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's what you gotta do for a pharaoh, right?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did they build them a pyramid out of egg cartons?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_02: Too soon?
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, um I mean actual like speeding highway car chase in Cairo and and uh shootout.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: This is the most cinematic food heist we've ever had.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: So well, I mean, the one about the gin get got stolen from underneath a lake until we found out they just lost I've blocked that memory out.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: That didn't really happen.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: There was a there was a second food heist where somebody else sneaked a sphere full of gin into the lake.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think what we are gonna do for these guys is elevate them to food heist heaven.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Did any cops die?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: Not according to the article that I read.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Alright.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're cool with it then.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: They can go to food heist heaven.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Dang, I don't know how to follow up on that.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: But only if only if their spirits passed into the underworld, which means they needed to have a proper sepulchre and a proper, you know, they need to have that giant pyramid out of egg cartons that has false doors and things like you know.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: In order to confuse tomb raiders.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there you go.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: So the fast and the pharaohish.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: That's all it's yeah.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea where I was gonna go with that one, and uh it went to a wonderful, delightful place.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people, when they send me food heists, they s they send their own food puns.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, do they?
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's so great.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember any coming from this.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you this one specifically.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't know if anyone's beating fast in the the Pharaoh-ish, but yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's a challenge.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: Now they're going to.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're going to, and it's gonna be way better.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Were they gonna embalm those chickens?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is that that that's is that what a Pharaoh?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta take them to the afterlife with you, so you gotta embalm them.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then you can have a nice, tasty chicken on the other side.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's what they did with their cats, so they'd have their pet cats.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, but those were pet cats, not like chicken thugs.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the chicken is not gonna keep unless you embalm it so that on the other side, then it'll pop up like when the cat yeah, when the cat that's embalmed joins the pharaoh or royalty in the afterlife, it doesn't look like a mummified cat.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just the mummification turns it back into a regular cat.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_01: So, by that same logic, therefore, you're going to end up with live chickens on the other back.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_02: That raises the question.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if I had any ancient Egyptians around to ask, I don't know what condition the chickens were in.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_02: Were these whole chickens?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: Were these chicken thighs?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but they just drums and wings.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: The unimportant stuff anyway.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: When you when you're when you're I'm just wondering if you can mummify a chicken leg and get a whole chicken in the afterlife.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's a good question.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good question.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_02: You might be able to.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think they were gonna try.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: My bigger question is if the chicken's already been cooked, does it come back as a live chicken?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, theoretically, uh-huh, if your pharaoh dies to being cooked because it got too hot in this place where he was, where they Egypt, well not the you know, I don't know what the name of a of a of a pharaoh's palace is.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the pharaoh's palace suddenly got really hot.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, maybe there were some Hebrews slinging around curses.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Fire and brimstone.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: That Pharaoh still would get mummified and come go to the afterlife.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's the point.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like if the chicken were cooked, it wouldn't matter.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Might make the embalmer's job more difficult.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be clear to our audience that when we talk about Hebrews slinging curses, we are referring to the Moses story and the plagues in the Old Testament.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: One of which is fire and brimstones.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just making sure.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_02: We have a very politically charged climate right now.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good point.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, before we get ourselves canceled, let's move on.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_02: So the movie that you finally watched that we're gonna talk about is Sinners.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Indeed.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: I watched Sinners now two months ago or so.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: So you had said it was your favorite movie of the year last year.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think Begonia might be my favorite.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but it is extremely close and probably a tie.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_02: But yes.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly my favorite horror movie of the year.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I thought it was terrible.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, come on.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: No, it was fantastic.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't even buy it for a second, did you?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: You knew me too well.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, it was it was incredible.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: It was everything that I expected it to be, which is both good and bad, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because the the second half was sad and brutal and bloody.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people had told me beforehand, and we're gonna try to talk without too many spoilers.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Our typical movie reviews, we're gonna have a spoiler-free section.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I wouldn't call it super spoiler-free because I already said that there's gonna be like there's some violence in the second half.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think anyone watched the trailer knows that is coming.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of people had told me that it's got two distinct halves, and they thought I would like the first half the best.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: And they were right and they were wrong.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I would because the ending makes the whole movie so much stronger.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: That it's hard to not look at the specific scenes at the end and through the middle that make the movie.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: So my favorite scenes are not in the first half, but the first half I enjoyed more.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: Does that make sense?
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: That does make sense.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I would probably not be alone in that.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_02: But the first half of the movie, I would go even as far as the first 60 or 70% of the movie is a really interesting and compelling story about historical stuff, music and characters and sharecroppers in a very specific part of the South, and how they all get along with each other and the plans that they have.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: And it's two brothers named Smoke and Stack, both played by Michael B.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jordan B.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Jordan, coming back home after they've been gone for a long time.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: Eight years, I think.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and that, you know, some people are very happy to see them, some people are very angry to see them.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: Some things have changed, some things have stayed the same and whatnot.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so my review is obviously, I mean, it's a 10 out of 10.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: One of the best movies I have ever seen.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like uh clear standout.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: I give tens to a lot of things.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: This is one of those rare Lincoln-esque 11s for me, if that makes sense.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's weird though, because after I got done with it, I'm like, I really love this movie.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like it wasn't quite for me.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because a lot of the things that people I'm sure will love when we talk about the second half are things that I'm like, yeah, I didn't need that.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really need that.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not interested in that.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: But the rest of it, you know, and it's not like those are flaws in the movies, it's just not my kind of movie in some ways.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, I am so excited for a spoilery talk about this because I think there's so much depth to the movie.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I want to approach it from a storytelling aspect, right?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: And like why it works so well from a storyteller's aspect.
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: So should we just go straight into that?
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like everyone's it's been out for a year and a half, it's really good.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: Content warning.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's very gory.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It gets very gory, and there is not as much sexual content as I'd worried, but there is some.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you are.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Spoilers for sinners.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so let's get into it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what do you want to say first?
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh the first thing that I'll talk about is moral nuance and storytelling complexity on display so elegantly that they make it look easy, infuriatingly easy.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: And people say, how do you write a complex character, right?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's hard because writing a good character is itself hard.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: A good but not complex character will take you years and years and years of practice to merely get to where you can do an archetype well that people will enjoy it and you are not worried about complexity.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: The next step is adding extra hard.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're adding difficulty onto something that you already need to be a master to do already.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Two already in that sentence, but you know what I mean.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and this story has such complex characters and so much nuance to them.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Even to the point of, I mean, obviously, smoke and stack are very individual people.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: They each have their problems.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the old girlfriend and the old, I think it was a wife.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Wife.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: It doesn't say common law wife, if not wife.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: They have so many layers to them.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Even the bad guy.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the bad guy I would list as one of the most nuanced.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, right underneath.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I would rank them.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: So Stack is, I think, my favorite character in the whole thing.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_02: Smoke, obviously, next, but then now it's been months for me.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Stack is the one who makes it to the end of the movie.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Correct?
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_02: Stack is the one who, yes, makes it to the end of the movie.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So why I love Stack, and this is just how to kick off your movie well.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_01: Stack is the one.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: I could get this wrong at any point.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry if I get it wrong.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_01: They're both played by the same person.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: But Stack is the one who goes into town at the beginning and pays the little girl to watch his car, and you love him immediately because he says to the girl, no, no, negotiate for more.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: I can pay, you know.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he gets there to ask for more to teach her both to give her some, he's free with his money, but he's also like he stole this money.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: This we find out, this is money that they stole from the mob.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: They played both sides in Chicago, the Irish mob and the Italian mob.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: They've stolen from them both, and now they've run away after pulling a heist on the mob themselves.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: So he's audacious, but he's also goes into the shop and the girl's been paid to watch his car.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_01: And then the girl starts honking the horn, like you told her, and he comes back out, and some guys are robbing his car, as he, you know, thought that they might.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And he immediately shoots one the leg.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: You get a moment where he thinks about it, and then he shoots one the leg, and the other one backs away.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, Oh, we sorry, we didn't know it was you, Stack.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, Can't let people know that you can rob from me without it having a penalty.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: So he shoots the other one too.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: He shoots him in the legs, and then he goes in and he pays some guys quietly to go patch them up.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: And the complexity of I know I need to maintain my reputation as a badass, and I am a badass.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: You like, yeah.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I am fully convinced he also has a heart that is at least partially gold, right?
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but he robbed from the mob, but then through the course of the story, you also see that both of them are chasing a dream that they have to know they can't have.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is their plan if the KKK comes?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: To shoot them all with machine guns.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: What does that do?
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Next, like, this is the terrible situation they're in, the awful situation that a black person in that, like, yeah, you're gonna shoot them with Tommy Gums like it does in the end.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you're not dead, then you will be, and you're not gonna get your juke.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, they're short-sighted, but they're idealistic.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: And like Stack is a good businessman, but also a bad businessman, and they're moral, but corrupted.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so fascinating, all of those nuances.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: There, there's so much to them.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: And then Smoke, you know, who is the flashier one, and you get the sense that he's more of a troublemaker than his brother is.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the bad guy, is it Rennick or Remick?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: What's the vampire's name?
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I can find it real quick.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, talk about why he works so well.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because this is why I couldn't call the first half my favorite.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: Because when he comes on the scene, even though I yeah, the violent scenes are not my thing, but the creepy scenes where he's talking to them.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then even at the end where Tommy is that his name, Tommy starts saying the Lord's Prayer, and the vampire.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: It still brings me comfort.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so talk about why he works.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: And his name is Remek.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_02: Remek with an M.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Remick or two M's.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the reasons that he works so well is because Sinners is using vampirism as a metaphor that I don't think I've ever seen before.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, the villain is not vampires, the villain is not white people, the villain is Christianity and colonialism.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Christianity used as colonialism.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: As a colonial tool.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wouldn't even say it's Christianity, it's the idea of smothering another person's culture entirely with your own, and then making them part of your culture.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that's one of the things that Remick brings up, is that he is from Ireland.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we don't know how long ago Ireland, but we kind of get the impression that uh, you know, it may have been a very long time ago, and that he remembers when Christian missionaries showed up.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And which is like before the Book of the Kels.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Which is like 900 years.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hundreds of years ago.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and so he's got this little speech that he gives about how he is himself a Christian.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_02: But he hates that he is.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_02: And he is so angry at the people who came in and took away what he had and replaced it with their own thing.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And that is, you know, a lot of what's happening to the black community in the movie as well.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_02: And to their, you know, all of their dreams and their music.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the vampirism is such a perfect metaphor for that.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're still yourself, but not really.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: You're also me now.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Your blood is mine.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And my culture becomes your culture.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I take what I love best from you, I take and I make it mine.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the rest of you has to do what I do.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: Once they become vampires, they start singing Irish songs.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: They've got that really cool.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: They make Rocky Road to Dublin terrifying.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it's this idea of, you know, it happened to us, and now we're going to do it to you.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the brilliant twist.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's what turns it from like the metaphor was great already.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: But by adding the nuance of like this is a perpetual problem, turns it into something that's even somehow deeper.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: And like I am a Christian.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in Christianity.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Watching this was in some ways hard because Christianity has been used for awful purposes by people in the past and they're not wrong.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_01: And having Smoke's wife be voodoo, which voodoo is an amalgamation of traditional beliefs with Christianity, also, is really fascinating for that reason.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like they've retained some of their original culture, but it's also been partially and yeah.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: And this has been going on, you know, pretty much since Christ was here.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you see that happening, you know, over and over.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And the movie does such a good job of taking that cycle of cultural imperialism.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_02: And turning it into a horror story.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_02: And saying something.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of theme, it's very easy as a writer, I've done this many times, it's very easy to bring up an idea and mull it over.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that makes for great books.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Saying something about it without it just being a very trite metaphor is really hard.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And this is- I don't think this was a trite metaphor.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like it wasn't one before the vampires, and then or before we've learned about the Irish aspect of it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: And then it became even more nuanced.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then stapling on the last scene.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: The last scene just takes it another level because you learned right then that what he was saying about community and family, he meant.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_01: He was going to give them immortality.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: They were going to be able to live together.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: He was going to dominate it, but once they were freed from him, in a lot of ways, like Stack got what he wanted minus one thing, which is be with his brother.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: And you end up with this story where Well, it's smoke at the end, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, Stack.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember which one like a year.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: So everyone in the story gets some of what they want, but can't have everything, which is another great way to write a tragedy.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody losing everything.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Often it's fine, but you have to choose among the things.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: So smoke at the end, he gets to have family and his soul, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: But he doesn't get to live.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: He can go be with his wife and his child, and he kind of has to give up his identity a little bit too as smoke.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: She says, I don't want any of that smoke on me.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Put down the cigarette.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: The identity of smoke, because their original names aren't smoke and stack.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's their gangster names.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so he has to lay down being smoke.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: And he chooses family and things like that.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: Stack gives.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Life and he gets to be with the woman he loves, but he loses his soul and he can't be with family.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: He can't be with his brother anymore.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and then Tommy, Tommy gets to have his music and his soul, right?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: But he's alone.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: He loses his community.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's lost his family.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's lost his community.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: He cannot have that.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: None of them get to have everything that they want.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: You have to choose a few of them, and they each choose something different.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's brilliant.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_02: And it made the movie so bittersweet as well, because it's a horror movie, and almost everyone dies, and the people who live are scarred.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: They all kind of have happy endings.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Even though they all also have tragic endings.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the very final scene is Tommy in the present day or you know, the recent past, as a very old man still playing like acoustic blues, and the two vampires show up.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's famous, people love him.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And the two vampires show up and if you haven't watched the movie, which you should have watched, we don't know that Stack lived.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: We don't know that he made it.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: We thought that he was killed by oh yes, he's known about it.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he says, My brother, let me live if I promise to stay away from you.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I've kept that promise.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you learn that a vampire can, as long as he's freed from his master thrall, he gets to keep his love of music.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: He gets to keep his mind, but not his soul.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and even, you know, there were still hints at the end that you know he had been colonialized mentally and spiritually.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: That he he was still around, but he wasn't himself anymore, and he knew it, and he had just learned to live with it.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_02: Which was great.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_02: So I want to watch it again, actually.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_01: I will say again.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I had this weird complex emotion.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, and this happens when I watch a lot of really great movies that are not quite like for me is the wrong term.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is a movie for anyone who doesn't mind the level of violence.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why did I have this feeling coming out and saying, wow, that was amazing?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And that's partially the violence is just it's to levels that are right before over the top, which is for me the worst level.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: When you go to kill Bill level, then the violence is not violence.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's right.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: When you go below that, obviously, it's not to my threshold.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: This is over my threshold to the look away.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's a level of violence that instead of being funny or interesting makes me sick.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that's the case for most people watching this because I think the violence level is actually for most people would be like a seven if you like horror movies.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: As a horror guy, this was not anything special in terms of gore.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's over the line for me.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't the level of gore that I will choose to watch unless it is thematically powerful and part of a movie like this.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: The immorality presented, for me, I know they're sinners, but this part was not very nuanced.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like immorality is what everybody does.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe not smoke.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: We at least have him, but he's left her for eight years.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not imagining that there's any expectation.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like that part also, it's just not my favorite thing.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: Of the three romances, two of them are adulterous.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: And the one that isn't adulterous, you're not even sure if they're married.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_01: And not that they have to live by like in that society.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, marriage is part of the structure of the people who are like, you get to decide if you're married.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need the priest to come in and tell you, I accept you being married if you just say it.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: But just some of that, it was a bit much for me.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's fair.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: But those are not things I would change about the movie.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And that's we've talked about that on the show before.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: This idea of like, there are things you can be like, I don't like this, but I don't want the movie to change.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: And it's important to remember that you know, being uncomfortable watching something is not the same as thinking that it's wrong and should not be a part of art.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of really fantastic art that depicts behavior I don't agree with.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: I have written many books.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think every book I've ever written depicts behavior that I don't personally engage in.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just uh while we sorry, it's a bad panic day and words become difficult.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even remember what I'm trying to say.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_01: What I would say is, at least for me, the uh sexual content was not over the line.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like for me, just as content, but the messaging on it was not my favorite.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: I think what I'm trying to say is if someone is trying to censor art, if someone is trying to say, I don't like this and therefore nobody should see it, right?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: That crosses a line.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: Very different.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: But if somebody says I was uncomfortable watching this, I don't think it's right to call that person a prude or weak or anything just because their line is in a different place than your line.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate you stating it like that.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: I would agree with that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: We only have a few minutes left.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: We should bring up the best scene in the movie, which if we didn't bring up, the comments would be talking about, which is the juke.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: And the big musical scene goes into this just fantastic, almost a dream sequence, and the walls melt away.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, time hundreds, if not thousands of years worth of different cultural traditions show up, all playing their music together.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: And it works and it's beautiful, and it's just a really powerful scene.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's one of the best scenes in cinema.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I knew Emily would not like this movie at all.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Because where my lines are, her lines are several steps lower.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: But I told her about the movie, and then I showed her that scene.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because I'm like, you gotta see the scene.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: You won't be able to get the full context of it.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'll do my best to bring you up to speed.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm gonna show you this scene.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I just had to show it to her.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: So she saw that scene, and then I showed her several of the scenes of the vampire talking.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because those scenes are so good and interacting with the with smoke and stack in them.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: That guy, that actor whose name I can't remember.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's so good and he plays villains so well.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: When Donald and I talked about horror movies, I said that I enjoyed 28 years later more than I enjoyed Bone Temple.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that is mostly neither of which I have seen.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_02: Neither of which you've seen and probably wouldn't enjoy.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: The main thing that irked me about Bone Temple was the villains, the Jimmies.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: You don't know what this is.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: I assume they're some kind of zombies.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: They're not they're psycho people who are taking advantage of the collapse of society in order to carry out their worst impulses.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: Got it.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And they are led by the main Jimmy who's played by the same actor.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: And Jack O'Connell, John.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: Jack O'Connell.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: As much as I disliked the Jimmies in general, he's incredible.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_02: He got me to love that character, even though I hated everything about that character, you know?
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: And he does such a good job, you know, kind of showing the person inside the monster.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, this person is irredeemably evil, but also a I understand where he's coming from.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, even if I don't agree with it.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, fantastic performances all around.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: I read that Tommy was brand new, that he'd never been.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he's a blues singer, not an actor.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he was so good as like normally when you have the musician trying to act and you know Michael Jordan pulling off both of these roles, and I can't think of a time where I mistook the two characters.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: Me misremembering right now which one had which name, don't take that as a sign that you couldn't tell them apart.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_02: He could walk into the scene and without even speaking, you knew which one it was, even if their costume had changed since the last scene they were in.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_02: He did just an incredible job.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: I feel bad.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: We talked about the music scene in The Ju, but music itself is such a gorgeous fantastic theme and again a metaphor throughout the movie of what's going on.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: The way they chose to start the movie off with a flash forward to after everything had happened.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Where they're singing this little light of mine.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he shows up, and you know, the very first thing we see is he shows up to a church and his dad says, Okay, choose church or music, really lets you know what the movie is going to be about.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: And music was such a powerful thing and used so expertly throughout the movie.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: We could go on forever.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: We could.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: The scene where see who picks up Tommy?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's stack.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: See, so stack goes, he gets this.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Smoke is getting the food.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it must be Stack.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they don't know that Tommy can play.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: They'd heard.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: And in the car they're riding along and he starts playing, and I think it is Stack.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, it's got to be Smoke because Stack has the big car that's got the smoke.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is smoke.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: Whichever one it is, it's the one who picks up Delroy Lindo.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: It makes sense that it would be smoke because he's about family and this is their cousin.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: But anyway, he picks him up and he starts playing and looks over smoke if it is smoke and says, We're gonna earn so much money.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, This is actually gonna work.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: But he is looking to exploit the music for money too.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 32:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Which is the theme of the whole thing, right?
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone wants Tommy's music or wants him to do something with it.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's so good.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: Everything just plays into the thing, and the characters are so like, you know, this is our hero, but he's also kind of doing what the vampire's doing, just not quite as bad.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: Vampire wants Tommy to come and sing with him.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_02: And Smoke and Stack wants the same thing.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: I really loved Sinners.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everyone should watch it, except, you know, maybe cover your eyes in certain places.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's one that I wish it's difficult to recommend to our audience specifically because I think our audience is not in broad terms a horror audience.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I would.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_01: So if this, you know if an R-rated horror movie is not your thing, then it's not your thing.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe discussions like this of it are your way to experience the story.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: If nothing else, go watch that uh music scene on YouTube.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Do I need to watch Obsession?
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: Dan, will I like Obsession?
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: He wants me to watch it because it'll be good for the YouTube movie.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's also just so good.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: Obsession is my favorite movie of 26.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't think anything horror movies.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't think anything was gonna beat Project Hail Mary.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: I genuinely think that Obsession, not just as a personal preference as a horror fan, will I think I like Obsession more.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it is than Project Hail Mary.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_02: Than Project Hail Mary.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I expect Project Hail Mary to win all of the awards at the end of the year.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, Obsession is my favorite movie of the year.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think that it does incredible things.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Will Emily like Obsession?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: It isn't often gory, but when it decides to be, it's pretty gory.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_02: But it has the same level of complexity and nuance to the characters.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it's very easy to look at the online discourse and say, oh, there's a very clear good guy and there's a very clear bad guy.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: And yes, while that is true, there are so many layers to the bad guy that even though he does awful things, he is a very complex and interesting character.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because Sinners actually wasn't that hard a sell to me, right?
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because historical is something I love.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: Cool use of music is something I love.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Supernatural like element in a kind of fantasy monster is a thing that I usually like.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've watched a lot of vampire movies despite not liking horror movies.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: So obsession is a harder sell to me because Sinners was actually not that hard.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, Brandon, you got to brace yourself for it to be sad and gory.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because all these horror movie people like sad and gory.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't actually want to tell you that you have to watch Obsession.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: Because as good as I think it is, I don't actually know if you would enjoy it.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because it is relentlessly dark.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you guys much, Ben.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: How's that?