Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Jason Mountford - Personal Injury Financial Planning and transfering skills from Australia to the UK

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Jason Mountford - Personal Injury Financial Planning and transfering skills from Australia to the UK · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Hi, and welcome to the Financial Planner Life Podcast, where we talk to professionals at varying stages in their career about what it's like working in the wonderful world of financial planning and financial advice.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This podcast is proudly sponsored by Recruit UK, a recruitment consultancy specifically focused on the financial services.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: They have a niche specialism, recruiting, within the financial planning industry.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_02: So check out their website for the latest job opportunities, hints and tips, and blog articles.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: And today's guest is Jason Mankford.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_02: Jason is a financial planner for Erwin Mitchell.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_02: Jason's a great guy, came from Australia, so started his career over there.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: So we talk about what it's like over in Australia being a financial planner, came to the UK, had to leave his ego at the door because his qualifications, even though he was chartered, didn't mean a great deal in the UK.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he had to start at the bottom as a power planner.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: So we talk about that transition and how he overcame some of those struggles, really.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_02: And we also talk in great detail about what it's like to be a clinical negligent and personal injury financial planner.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's a niche specialism within the financial planning profession.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: Not many advisors do it, and it's so super rewarding and interesting.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's also a big fan of social media, and during lockdown, he's been investing a lot of his time and energy in creating videos and content and really putting himself out there.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_02: So he shares his journey around that and the benefits of doing so.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: I hope you enjoyed the podcast.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Jason, how are you doing, mate?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_02: You good?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm well, Sam.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: No problem at all.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very well, thank you.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm very well.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: As I was saying prior to the um prior to us pressing record, I've just done my my first day where I feel like my shoulder's okay.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've had a terrible injury on my neck and shoulder.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: I saw the osteopath yesterday, so she's worked her magic.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_02: So touch wood and fingers crossed, and I'm in a I'm in a good place.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think um that it's always it's always rotten when you do feel ill or you hurt yourself, but it's it's that nice reminder, isn't it, that health is is really is the most important thing.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_02: 100%.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's giving me time to focus, realign myself, got me thinking about how I deal with stress, etc.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because running and exercise is my go-to way of dealing with stress.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: So not being able to do that is a nightmare for me.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like a caged, caged animal.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: My wife's going mental, like you know, I'm a I'm a nightmare.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_02: But um, but it's taught me a lesson.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's learnt learning about how to sit with myself and be still.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: So um hasn't worked.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still a nightmare.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wife still.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's all a process, Sam.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's all a process.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_02: So, Jason, thanks so much for joining me today on the Financial Planner Life podcast.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just wanted to find out a little bit about your career, what you've been doing.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, really interested in someone coming from Australia into the UK, how the two markets compare.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and also a lot around what you're doing at the moment at Irwin Mitchell, um, because it's very, very interesting the sector and the niche that you've you've managed to get yourself into.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um so that's really interesting as well.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: So, Jason, so you obviously started your career off in Australia.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_02: Um give us an overview of how you got into the financial planning, financial advice industry in Australia, and how really you then came over to the UK.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: What made you do it?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sure thing.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um I guess going way back mine initially when I finished high school, um my university placement was in a journalism degree.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that was kind of what I was planning to do initially.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, it was one of those ones where I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of picked it because I got the best marks in English, that was my best subject.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I thought, well, all right, let's let's try journalism.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: But didn't have any burning desire to be doing that.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So um took a year off and uh did a bit of traveling and things as you do.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and my my deferred place to university came up, and I thought, it's just not for me.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's not uh I don't want to go spending all that money on something that I'm not uh not even sure that I'll I want to be doing.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um at the time my my parents actually owned a small financial planning firm, so a small IFA.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and they said, well, look, whilst you're kind of thinking about what it is you actually do want to do, why don't you just come along and then do some kind of admin work for us and help us out?
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: So uh did that, and um, you know, I think I think it's a common theme through a lot of the podcasts that I've listened to from myself is that a lot of people tend to kind of fall into the industry rather than seek it out.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that was definitely my my entry into it.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um but as I I got more involved in what was going on, moved more into a power planning role where I was doing a bit more, um, a bit more complex stuff, started to do some exams and things, and it's just kind of snowballed from there, really.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um once I'd been in the industry for a couple of years, it definitely was uh the advice kind of role that I wanted to be in.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't want to be the person at the computer all day banging out the reports.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to be talking to people and and chatting and and uh and that sort of thing.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always the plan to move into an advice role.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I did a number of years, as I say, power planning back office, and then managed to get my first role with the banks.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the industry in Australia has a lot of parallels to the way it's worked here in the UK.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we've gone through they've gone through an RDR equivalent uh called Future of Financial Advice Reforms.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, same thing, banks were providing a lot of financial advice, training a lot of financial planners, and then the regulators came in and thought, oh, geez, there's a lot of uh not so great stuff going on here.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I had a few really good years at the bank, um, but then basically they all started to get out of advice like that, like they are here.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I learned a lot, it was fantastic.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: I felt like I was still providing great advice.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't see any dodgy stuff going on, um, but obviously it was happening out there.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: So off the back of that, moved uh into a smaller IFA firm.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: So again, very typical, typical to what you see here.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was four advisors, um, you know, small business, um, but providing really, really tailored advice to the client base.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: All right, cool.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that sounds very similar setup to the UK, very similar in respect to what happened with RDR.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_02: So when you were working for the bank, how long were you working there as a financial advisor?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I was an advisor there for just under four years, I think.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I did uh and then a couple of years uh as an advisor in the in the IFA firm before we uh before we decided to move move to the UK.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: So what was the the market like in Australia in respects of clients and and and giving financial advice?
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Was you know, are the you know, the general public, the consumer, are they quite aware of financial planning?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_02: Do they um is is it is it financial planning or is it financial advice product sales?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, going through something similar to RDR, I assume it was very product sales and uh and commission based, and then financial planning may have followed on later, or has it always been there?
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Again, it's um it's actually quite amazing how closely the two countries have mirrored each other.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, again, historically, you know, financial planning was was born from insurance sales, you know, all the old financial planners were all insurance agents back in the day.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and as time goes has gone on, it's become just like here, less and less about product and more and more about advice.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think um it's a really interesting um question because uh the the availability of financial advice in Australia is much more widespread.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think here in the UK, um definitely my experience anyway is that your typical IFA client skews a lot wealthier than it does in Australia.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, that comes back to the way the pension system is is sort of set up.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens here in in the UK over the next 20, 30 years, because in Oz, there's a lot less um significantly fewer defined benefit uh pension funds out there.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: So what you've got instead is you've got a lot of clients who have just worked regular jobs, they're teachers, they're policemen, they're you know working at the supermarket.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have a final salary scheme, but they've got a really sizable pension pot.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think that's gonna be, I think financial advice is a lot more available because there's a lot more investable assets for your regular person in Australia.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I think we're probably going to see a similar thing here as time goes on.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: As in, more people have got bigger pension pots because they've set up personal pension plans as opposed to relying upon the state pension or no.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I I guess what I'm getting at with this.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say, so a couple of weeks ago is a good example.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: I uh I met with a client here who was um they're both teachers, right?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And they've both been teachers, they're in their early 50s, both been teachers for a really long time.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, husband is a is a head teacher now, so you know, earning pretty good money.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: They've got great final salary schemes.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think they're due to get around 45k between them once you add state pension onto that.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that they're they're quite quite well off.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: In Australia, that same couple wouldn't have a final salary scheme.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: They would have a an auto enrollment equivalent, and we've had auto enrollment in Australia since 1992.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: So that same couple would probably have half a million quid in an actual um company pension scheme.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the company pension scheme is run very similar to as a personal pension scheme would run here.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: So all of a sudden, you know, here in the UK, that client, there's not a lot as a financial planner that we can provide in terms of value.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a lot of investable assets there, even though that person's actually going to be pretty well off in retirement.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: In Australia, that same person is going to have to manage that half a million pounds through retirement.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously there's a lot of value then that we can add as financial planners.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot more um strategy you can put in place.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's just going to be an interesting shift because people like people who are now in their 30s, you know, they're not going to have final salary schemes for the in the vast majority of cases.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're going to have their company or their their own personal pensions or auto-enrollment schemes that are potentially going to be worth quite a lot of money when they when they get to their 60s.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, that's very interesting.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So you spent your time over in Australia, you worked yourself up as an IFA administrator, power planner, typical route.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_02: Actually, interestingly, from there you then moved into financial advice within a bank.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_02: The changes to the regulation happened over there, similar to RDR in the UK.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_02: Did you then leave the bank to come to the UK?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or so how did that work?
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: And what was the reason why you left Australia and came to the UK?
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because I get approached a lot by people who have come from Australia, you know, in Australia or perhaps in South Africa, experience, want to come to the UK, obviously struggle with visas and um struggled with finding employment.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they ask us, and we can't really help because clients of ours won't take anybody on outside of the UK for obvious reasons, things like like visas, um, but also qualifications and lack of experience of working within the UK market.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I definitely want to um talk a little bit about that transition.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: But how how did it come that you ended up moving to the UK?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um, like I say, I was working at as an IFA um and we my wife is from the UK originally.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd been working as an IFA for a couple of years, um, as in an you know, in an in a small independent firm.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and my son was born, and he actually had quite a lot of complex um medical medical issues.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So he's got cerebral palsy and epilepsy.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so as you can imagine, that kind of throws your world upside down.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have this image of uh having a healthy, healthy child, and my wife was a teacher, so she planned to go back to work.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then all of a sudden, all these plans kind of can't go ahead as as you'd expected.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, because my wife's from the UK originally, um, she's got a really uh big family, big supportive family unit here here in uh in Manchester.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we just decided that you know, on balance, it was going to be better for us to have that family support here, um, just to be able to assist with my son and just provide, yeah, provide that support, I suppose.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um how old's your son then?
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: He's five now, just turned five.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: So five, okay.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: So when you um so when you recognized he had cerebral palsy, epilepsy, and other health um problems, was it instant?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that straight away, or did you uh yeah, I mean, I can I can tell a whole story about that.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was a pretty traumatic kind of um situation, really.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was when he was three days old, uh I won't go into the the huge story, uh, but it basically he had um he had uh low blood sugar, his body didn't work the way it was supposed to be working, he didn't shift to using his fat stores.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we talk about the keto diet, you know, you've heard probably heard of that.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: So normally basically what that is is when your body gets a bit low on on blood glucose, if you don't have enough food in your in your body, you switch to ketones.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um Jack wasn't feeding very well when he was an infant, which a lot of kids don't, you know, often they lose a little bit of weight as they're learning how to feed and stuff like that, but it's fine because they switched to using fat stores.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um so that process didn't happen properly for Jack.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So basically he he suffered a brain injury as a result of that.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it was uh the first our first three weeks as new parents was was in the neonatal intensive care unit.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So it was kind of it wasn't expected, obviously, and it was uh yeah, it was it was awful.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: Croiki, yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's um going obviously.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a little I've got a little daughter myself, and um, I mean, going through anything like that must have been quite traumatic.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: So um I couldn't imagine actually.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_02: But so you decided then that UK, big family over here, wife's from the UK, looking for that balance, really, I guess.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're looking to be able to work, you're you're looking to be able to look after your your son in in the way that he needs to be looked after, and um having that larger family around would be a better move for you.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: So after you came to the UK, then be interesting to talk about that work-life balance actually and how you've managed that because you know, throughout my time of working in recruitment, um I've represented candidates that have um similar that have been in exactly similar situations, whether it's a child or a partner that's unwell and needs full-time care or part-time care.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the stories I've heard along the way, it's been really difficult for them to actually find employment with a firm that actually understand and give them the flexibility.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I think the the shift is changing massively, you know, even for like mums, you know, we look at like people turn their noses at hiring mums because they've got to go pick the kids up and all that, and it's just crazy.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the shift has changed, and I think um it's been brought forward even faster with COVID, you know, and people understand that you can be flexible and can work.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: So work-life balance is a is a biggie, you know, it's a biggie.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_02: So um be interesting to hear a little bit more about that.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um and thanks for sharing that.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um so okay, back.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: So you're in the UK.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you okay, so you've come to the UK.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: Now, how do you did you find a job before you came to the UK?
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_02: Did you reach out to recruitment consultants?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: What did you do to get yourself a job in the UK?
• 14:31
  SPEAKER_02: Because you must have been coming over here thinking, shit, I've got to find a job.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So um I think I guess the first thing was it's probably tough for somebody who doesn't have to have that kind of uh trigger to move like we did.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I think, you know, I I kind of realize after doing some research, I did reach out to a couple of recruitment agents just to get a bit of a lay of the land, I suppose, um, beforehand.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: And um I kind of realized that I was gonna have to put the ego at the door and and kind of take a step back in my career, which is tough, you know, especially with the kind of personalities that us advisors generally are, yeah.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It can be tough to say, okay, I'm gonna have to go back and take a step back in my career in order to take that step forward.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: So let's stop there.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: Let's stop there.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: The putting the you know, leaving that ego at the door, okay.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think you needed to say, do you do you now where you are now being a financial planner in the UK, do you think at the time you did need to put your ego at the door?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think you did need to start perhaps in a position that was lower than a financial planner?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think it was just a lack of understanding from employers?
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think um I think I could have made it work.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we're all we're all great at at working with the information we've got at the time.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I don't know how uh how good that would have been from a client's perspective.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I think I could have made it work, I don't think I would have been ready.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think I definitely underestimated that learning curve.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I think I think part of it is actually, you know, I've talked a lot about the similarities between the UK system and the way it works in Australia.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, when I started doing my research, I was looking at the way pension schemes work here, you know, some of the tax rules, and it all looks very similar.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you kind of look at that and say, yeah, that's fine, not a problem, I can deal with that.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: But I can I guess it it sounds obvious in hindsight, but what you forget is that when you're a financial planner sitting down with someone, you're not talking to them just about what the rules and regulations are today.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're talking to people who are 55 years old who have a scheme from back in 1987.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, over that time, the UK has gone through so many different iterations, especially with, you know, the contracting out and the way, you know, the way those changes have happened with state pensions.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's all that kind of stuff that I I honestly would have been really flailing if I tried to just jump straight in and start as a financial planner.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, as much as it is taking a step back, it's made me a much better planner now because I've had that kind of you know, it's accelerated because you've got you understand how investments work, you understand the financial planning process, but it's made me a much better financial planner now.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that's really good advice.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: So if anyone's sort of outside the UK that's thinking about coming into the UK, um, I suppose when your experience of coming in and then looking at trying to get employed as a financial planner, is is to leave your ego at the door.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_02: The reality is there is a lot of learning that you have to do before you can become a financial planner in the UK.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, the qualifications you held in Australia aren't transferable to the UK, are they?
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_02: No, it was so what about the qualifications?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: Did you have any UK ones before you before you left Australia?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_02: Could you use any of your Australia?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_02: Were they redundant, completely redundant?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um I guess to answer that in in combination with your other question.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: So we came and had a visit sort of uh, I think it was seven, eight months before we planned to actually move, just to kind of again suss out what the situation was.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I wanted to speak to a couple of um potential employers, um, look at what houses would cost us, all that sort of stuff.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: So um I managed to secure a role um at that point, a power planning role, without having had any qualifications or anything like that.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think like anything, it it probably would have even been even easier if you'd had a couple of units of your diploma under your belt.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you're you're exactly right, you know what?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: So in Australia, I was the equivalent of a chartered financial planner.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'd just completed a master's of applied finance, came over here, sent all that to the CII, and they said, Well, we'll give you 30 advanced credits.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay, great.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's eight years of study that just basically count for nothing.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's it's um and again in hindsight, I can actually understand where where they're coming from with that because you know, the content is a lot more different than it appears on on face value.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: Is it different is is the content different from the Australian?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_02: So you said you're the equivalent of chartered over in Australia, and you're working towards chartered at the moment, are you, aren't you, in the UK?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, how different is the qualification and the learning to the Australian markets?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Is it harder or is it easier or is it similar?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it depends on your learning style.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh in Australia, the the vast majority, again, it's it's the same.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you have your diploma level, which is your base standard that you need to be registered as a financial advisor.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but just like here, you know that's that's quickly becoming kind of the minimum standard, really, rather than the actual standard.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you have your advanced diploma, which gets you to that kind of chartered level equivalent.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess for me personally, as a learner, a lot of the the uh uh a lot of the uh study over there is is what's the word I'm looking for?
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not exam, it's uh coursework.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's coursework base.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I mean I hate exams, I'm not great in exams.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, that's a big shift because there's a lot more kind of pressure on getting everything um ready for that that three hours that you have to do here.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: So for me personally, I found it more difficult here just because of the way that the education is set up.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, but I think yeah, content-wise, it's probably not too far apart, not too far apart, but more so coursework based over in Australia, which suited you more in your learning style because you're not so much of an exam taker.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so what what route did you go down when you came to the UK and how did you make that decision?
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so in terms of education, so I got the role without having anything.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously I had a lot to sort of hang my hat on in terms of what Australian qualifications and that language kind of transfers.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: So when an employer is looking that you've got a diploma and an advanced diploma and a master's degree, they know what that means.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not completely foreign.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so you know, I they the company I work for, they did all their education through CII.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they're obviously um the behemoth in the industry, so I didn't see any, I didn't have any problems with that.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of the route I've gone down.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: So you went down the CII, which is quite heavily, which is quite heavily exam-based, isn't it?
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is, yeah, it is, unfortunately.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, because um I always have this sort of if I if I was to consider becoming a financial planner um and doing the qualifications, I think I would go down the L IBF route myself.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_02: I think Mike, I've just I've just put a guide together um purely based around sort of the C I S I, L I B F um and the CII.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I did a guide quite recently around the costings as well, the costings associated to all of them.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the L IBF comes out to me, it comes out cheaper, it's quicker to pass.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: And and there's no exams.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_02: So to me, it's like, well, that just makes total sense.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_02: I would do that.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what you said there is that when you're coming into the UK, the the sort of badge of honour that people say that you should have is the CII.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: They've got a bit of a stranglehold on qualifications and and and people saying that that's the right route to go down.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um I personally go down the L IBF, which is interesting because um I would struggle with the exams, I think.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I years ago they had like FPCs in the UK and I did FPC one.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember it was difficult at a time because I'm not a very exam driven individual individual.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:56
  unknown: Cool.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: So what do you think about uh just quickly, what do you think about C I S R?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Because I know because so they've got the CFP certification, which is it's like America in Australia in terms of the CFP is kind of like the gold standard.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um how do you uh what do you think about that?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: That that's new and kind of developing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's new and developing.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um what I've heard is they're not putting a great deal of energy and effort into the CFP, into the um CFP supporting advisors, um and getting it out there for that to be recognized as an industry standard up against the charters for CII.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think um I don't think I think people that have taken that route, I'm not saying that it's a bad route to go down, um, but from my perspective, looking out at the industry as a whole, it's not really something that a lot of financial advisors do.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: It tends to be CII.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that's that route.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, the the charter, you know, the CFP one, um, then what I'm hearing is is they're not putting a great deal of energy and effort into it and promoting it as a qualification, as an accreditation.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_02: So if an advisor does it, it's kind of like, well, what's that?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: But it's a funny one, qualifications, I think.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's again, it's like if you're level four qualified, if you're qualified to give financial advice and your job title says you're a financial advisor or a financial planner, I think ultimately it comes down to the client.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: So the client doesn't really sit there and go, oh, let's have a quick look at the you know, CISI qualification route, CII qualification, LIBF.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: They don't care, do they?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think they genuinely care.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my that's my point.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, well, do the qualification to get your level yourself level four.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, probably what's more important is the soft skills.
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's how you deliver yourself as a financial planner, it's it's how you question the client, it's how you, you know, it's how you get the best out of that relationship, it's the financial coaching aspect of it.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and there's people out there like the kinder industry, or you've got knowed I self academy, all these different um academies, Catherine Morgan, you know, doing life life coaching, all those types of things, I think uh they're the things that get you know recognized as a financial planner.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: The qualification is just you it's a tick boxer.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I I get shot for that.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I say that to some people who are charted and absolutely, you know, qualifications all the way.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: They just think, shut up, shut up, Sam, what are you talking about?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_02: But but as an as a profession that's trying to attract new people to the to to the you know to to come in and become financial planners, why put so many crazy barriers up to entry?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Make it you know, make it bloody easy for them to come in.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um I mean, I see that I've seen that with a number of ex-colleagues that um, you know, that they're paraplanning, they want to become an advisor, but they want to get chartered first.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, you know, I my my advice was, you know, yeah, work towards chartered, it's it's obviously good to have it, you know, it's important to get those qualifications, but that's not gonna make you a better financial planner.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, you know, you're gonna learn those things as you go on.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think sometimes when you talk about soft skills like you just mentioned, that kind of can be stigmatized a little bit that, like, oh, you want me to work on my sales skills, right?
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, that that's but I think it's looking at that the wrong way.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all that by improving your soft skills, it means you're gonna be able to get more from that client, you're gonna be understand be able to understand more what it is that they're trying to achieve.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna be able to get them to talk to you more, get them to open up more.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, that doesn't then flow through to you being more likely to make a sale, it flows through to you being able to provide better advice because you know that person better.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think um, yeah, you're exactly right.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think soft skills that can be vastly underrated.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, it's too heavy on the exams, you know.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's too yeah, it's too heavy on the exams and not enough on the actual person or the people you're talking to and the the psychology of what you're delivering and unearthing the problems and fixing problems.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I love all the the approach now to to financial planning, which is more coaching based.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I like that idea.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: I like, you know, I think we as consumers need things simplified.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need things simplified, and we need someone to listen to us and attach our emotions to it.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, I think there's a lot of fear that goes with money, you know, there's a lot of worry, anxiety, pride.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I find it very difficult to talk about money, you know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: But if I've got someone in front of me who understands that, then they can draw it out of me and make me feel less anxious than I'm probably going to share.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Because, you know, especially like being a business owner, for example.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a business owner, I've got, you know, hire 15 guys, I've been running a business for ages.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: Does that mean I'm amazing with money?
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, it doesn't, you know.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: So I kind of need someone that can draw that out of me.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, I'm just I'm an egotist.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: I can be an egotistical git as well and get all prideful of all sorts of stuff.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: So that have you done any have you done any financial coaching courses?
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: Have you have you sort of um had any uh uh external training outside of what you do on a daily basis?
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I've not, you know, and I have seen Catherine's um stuff stuff on social media, she's obviously pretty active as well.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, it's definitely uh I think it's one of those areas where you can you can never learn enough.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, at the moment, obviously with being three years into being in the UK, it's kind of like there's so much that I could be going at.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um it's all it's all added to the list, and it'll all be, it's all it is always a learning journey, I don't think, in financial planning and in a lot of professions, you could ever say, I'm done, I don't need to learn anything else.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's always going to be more areas you can improve on out there.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so you came into the UK, you started yourself as a as a power planner, okay.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: How long were you doing that for?
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_02: A couple of years.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: So a couple of years in power planning role.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: And were you, as a power planner in the UK, were were you um purely research-based, you know, behind the computer type of way, or were you getting yourself in front of clients as well and building upon those skills of um and other skills you already had, but you know, evidence and then building those the skills on a face-to-face basis?
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so uh the the way that worked where I worked at the time was um we would be in with all the meetings with with the advisor, um, with the client.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of client face time.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, I mentioned about leaving the ego at the door, and that I kind of had to do that for two years straight because I'd be sitting in a meeting, and especially as I started to get more comfortable with with how the system works here, you know, I'd be sitting there, the advisor would say something, and I think, well, I wouldn't, I wouldn't say like that.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, you can't you can't be piping up and uh and putting your two cents in, so to speak.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I I think if if nothing else, it was a great um uh a great learn for me in terms of the confidence side of things.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, sitting with actual advisors who are doing the job here, you get really get to see the kind of stuff they're talking about, the kind of things that they're doing.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again, you realize that actually, as much as the um nuts and bolts of a financial strategy are different between the countries, the process of dealing with people and the process of doing the financial coaching and the financial planning is the same.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people are the same all over the world, they all have the same aspirations, they've all got the same concerns, um, and taking them through that journey of being becoming more comfortable with money is very similar no matter where you are in the world, really.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: So, in you know, in financial planning, there's a route, isn't it?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_02: You can go in as a trainee, as a trainee financial advisor, and what you're seeing in the UK are these academies opening up, you know.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got Quilter, you've got St.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: James's Place, the Open Work Academy.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_02: And what they're saying is if you've got some of the qualifications, if you've got none of the qualifications, or if you want to change over from being uh, I don't know, uh IT salesperson and you want to move into financial planning, you can do that.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: So they're trying to kind of bridge that gap to get more people coming in into the in into the financial advice profession.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: But what they're doing is they're saying, come on in and then go straight into financial advice.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_02: And then you've got the other route, which is a more traditional route, which is the coming in as an IFA administrator, um, going down the power planner route and kind of earning your stripes and working your way up to financial advisor.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: What do you think about that?
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think that somebody can just walk straight into financial planning and become a financial planner straight away?
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: Or do you think it's uh wise and beneficial to go down the route of IFA administrator, power planner, then financial advisor?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: So personally, if I had my time again, I would still take the power planner route.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: I just think it allows you to have exposure to a lot of stuff that potentially you're not gonna get exposure to for many years if you go straight in as a financial planner.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um with that said, I think I think there's nothing wrong with going straight in as a financial advisor, but I think it would be really important, again, if it was me doing it, looking how that that process was run, how that academy was run, what your expectations would be.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think if you're gonna be kind of thrown into the lines then and expected to be writing business, big business right off the bat, I think that's a recipe for for burnout.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you're not necessarily going to be enjoying yourself.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: If on the other hand, it's gonna be sort of you know shattering other advisors, maybe working with them on bits of business that are maybe too small for them to be dealing with or straight risk clients or whatever.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I don't think there's anything wrong with that route.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I guess it would just come down to how that I think the important part for both both sides is that as long as there's that kind of stepped approach.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you can start with the more simple stuff and build your way up because I think that is really important.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_02: Simple stuff, build your way up.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, okay, great.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, cool.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you're working as a power planner and um you obviously left.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_02: Because you're now working for Irwin Mitchell, aren't you?
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: So you know, as I said, it was a it was a constant ego check for two two long years.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I, you know, itch itching, itching to get back in the advisor seat.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I joined Erwin Mitchell at the start of this year, so 6th of January.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously had a couple of months of of normal office life before uh before ending up here.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, it's been brilliant.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Been really, really enjoying being back in the driver's seat, so to speak.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Great stuff.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Because my understanding with Erwin Mitchell is that they do a lot of they're solicitors, aren't they?
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_02: Erwin Mitchell.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_02: They call it solicitor side, which is the bulk of their business, and then they built the financial planning side on the back of the solicitor business.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and uh when I was working with Erwin Mitchell, it was on the um clinical negligence um personal injury specialist side, so financial planners that were um giving advice to clients that have suffered clinical negligence or personal injury.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Is that the area you're currently working on at the moment?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so actually funnily enough, I've just remembered, I think it might have even been you guys that placed me in elementary note, Andrew Nicholson.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Andrew Nicholson, yes, it was us.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_02: Look at that recruit UK, anybody listening, come and see us because we place candidates and they end up on the podcast.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_02: I forget who we place, we place so many.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, so it's uh so yeah, you're exactly right.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was recruited to be the PI side of the business.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was funny actually because um Andrew was speaking to me about a number of different roles um that it didn't really sound like me, you know, they were kind of your typical IFA role.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time, you know, I was looking for something a little bit different within the industry.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think everything that I've gone through with my son, I really had that kind of feeling that I wanted to be really feeling like I was helping people.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I was kind of looking for something a little bit different than your typical IFA route, I suppose.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and Andrew actually mentioned this, the role that I've got now, and I I think they'd pretty much filled it, but it I guess it was funny because it happened to come up about my son, and obviously, you know, having a child with with um a disability, there's so much crossover than if you're dealing with clients who are in personal injury and medical negligence, because obviously a huge portion of that client base have disabilities, that's why they're getting those payouts.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so he ended up speaking to who's my now my boss now and uh got me in with an interview.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was on the Tuesday, um and in Sheffield.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I went across from Manchester over to Sheffield, uh, got me in for a second interview the the Thursday, and then on my drive home, I uh I got offered the job.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like it happened super quick.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, it it just really ticked a lot of boxes for me because of that personal injury side.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you're still getting to deal with some really big, big money, getting to do some really interesting stuff from a strategy perspective.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh, you know, my clients are people who really need financial advice.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're not they're not just looking to save a bit of inheritance tax or you know, uh work out how to pass their millions on to their kids um properly.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's people that if this money is not managed properly, they will run out and they need 200,000 pounds to pay for their care each year.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, so uh so that was that was what I came on the business to do.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: Still very much doing that.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Just kind of recently, the last few months, uh the Ewan Mitchell um financial planning division we've sort of expanded into private wealth.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, working more closely with the solicitors in the family team or tax trust and estates, people who are doing will, stuff like that.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of doing a hybrid role now where I've got a lot of ongoing clients in the PI side of the business and also sort of starting to build up the wealth side of the business as well.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, okay, brilliant.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: Let's kind of do delve a bit deeper on it then, because I think um within financial planning with the UK, there are different niches.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there are certain areas that you can work in.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: And this is one that people don't come up come across that often, which is clinical negligence and and personal injury.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_02: Now, for those that don't really understand what that actually is, it'll be great for you to give us a bit of an overview of what clinical negligence and personal injury, financial planning is there for.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Why is it there?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: How does it support the clients?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so the I guess the the really broad umbrella is personal injury.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: And within personal injury, you can have um you can have people who have been the victim of um of car accidents where somebody else was at fault.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can have medical negligence, you know, maybe uh a baby was delivered incorrectly and then that has caused them to have a brain injury, something like that.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, all sorts of operations that have gone wrong, sort of anything where there is potentially a party at fault, the solicitors will then seek to um seek damages for that.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that can be huge, huge amounts of money.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so let's use an example of a of a child where the birth hasn't gone correctly, they've suffered a brain injury, you know, that child may have very complex uh disability needs.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_00: They may need to have a two-to-one carer, so they may need two carers with them for the rest of their life.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Now, on top of things like wheelchairs and adapted housing and stuff like that, basically what the settlement will be looking to achieve is enough money to pay two full-time carers 24 hours a day for the rest of that child's life.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it doesn't take uh you're gonna need a calculator to work out how much money that that ends up being.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So some of these settlements can be really significant.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and obviously, like anybody with significant amounts of money, you need to make sure that that's managed properly.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: And for for someone with a disability, that that is incredibly important because if you've got a a um a client or a claimant who's got a life expectancy to age 55, and that money runs out when they're 47, you know, it's not like they can just start shopping at little instead of Tesco.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that care need doesn't change.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really, really important that the money is managed properly, the tax positions managed properly.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and often you're talking about, like, say, really serious sums of money.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: So there's it needs to get quite complex, especially around the tax planning.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And also you're dealing with a very highly sensitive situation, aren't you?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, quite emotional, probably.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, as you said, you know, um your experience with your boy being unwell at a very young age has probably helped you have that empathy and understanding of what someone might be going through emotionally, through the courts, for example, because it's not as simple as someone saying, okay, so there's been some negligence there.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: So what we're going to do is write you a check for a million quid.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: Here's that, stick it in your bank account, that's going to last you forever.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_02: So, from a clinical negligence and PI advice perspective, I assume you're working alongside a solicitor to say, look, you know, this is the financial plan.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: This is what we can do with that money to make sure that that individual is covered for the rest of their life.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I suppose it's like uh it's taking into consideration everything, isn't it?
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: So it's how many, you know, how many carers is that person going to need?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: How old is that person's parents now?
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, are they going to be around?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, inflation, um, cars, travel, food, absolutely everything because that individual's life has been turned upside down.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so you've got to be, it's such an important role, isn't it, to work out the financial need of that person?
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: You're almost playing a bit of a getting game as well, aren't you?
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously not getting, but you're making uh an informed decision as to how much money that person is going to need.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what happens there?
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: So you go in, do you do you sit in the court?
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_02: So you involve in the court proceedings.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_02: Um, do you have to present to the court why you think that person needs a specific sum of money?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_02: Are you then involved in the claim itself?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so um we definitely get involved pre-settlement.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's the period before the money's actually been paid or an agreement has been made.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um I don't do that personally, obviously I'm still quite new to the whole thing, but we have um what's called expert witnesses.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: So there's financial planners in our in our firm.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: We have one, um, my colleague Phil in Manchester, who's their expert witness.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: So um, in terms of quantum, which is the amount of money that's being sought, we don't really get involved in that.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Where we do get involved is um looking at what is going to be the best option for the client in terms of how that money is paid.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: So often a settlement can be made in one of two ways.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's what's called a periodical payment order, which is an amount that gets paid every year.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's 200 grand a year, for example, um, or lump sum.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now, obviously, there's gonna be different parts of that claim that where uh one or the other is gonna be more appropriate for it.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're talking about care, you know, probably a PPO, an annual payment is going to be a better option for that.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're talking about money to provide for um adapted housing, things like that, then lump sum is gonna be appropriate.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So we get involved with working out and providing reports on how we would recommend the split happens between ongoing income and lump sum payment.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: After the settlement's made, um, yeah, I mean it's it's a really interesting one because you don't just have a client sitting in front of you and you talk to them about their wishes.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sometimes the client might not be able, well, often the client's not able to speak for themselves.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: So you would have the parents if relevant, you would have um, if the client doesn't have capacity, they will have they'll be under the court of protection.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you'll have the solicitors from the court of protection.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if there's a personal injury trust, you might have additional trustees.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we can have an annual review where there's nine people in the room.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, um, you might have the client's case manager who is the person who kind of coordinates all of their care and coordinates their physio and stuff like that.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it there can be a lot of different dynamics at play, but it's just um it's it can be really heartwarming because you're sitting in this often you're sitting in the client's house, obviously pre-COVID.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're all sitting around the client's house, you've got the disabled party of the claimant in the room, and you've kind of got this big group of people, and we're all there to make sure that this person has the best life they can possibly have.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_00: So it is a really rewarding feeling.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds really rewarding, very different from your traditional financial planning, financial advice, going out there trying to make people money, trying to, you know, get them richer or whatever it might well be.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's the kind of view people tend to have of financial planners, isn't it?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas this is actually genuinely trying to make somebody's life better.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, obviously people are doing that within financial planning as well, but it is trying to make somebody's life better who's at a massive disadvantage to the average person out there in the UK.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you mentioned before about the specifics.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think again, you you get really specific.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if they need new windows, they're telling about the new windows.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_00: If the chair needs some new wheels, you're talking about, you know, how much that's all going to cost.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: So you you become a lot, you know, the solicitors are a big part of that as well, but you become a lot more you involve in that just basic money management type stuff, you know, budgeting for things that are going to come up over the next few few years.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: In this role then, have you learned things that you've never learned within a financial planning position previously?
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's huge.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's huge.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think the financial planning side is very much the same because at the end of all this, you have a lump sum of money you're investing for that client.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, in a lot of ways, that side of things is very similar to to an IFA.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but the legal world is is just uh is just a beast unto uh in and unto itself.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's so much jargon, um, there's so much kind of protocol and things that you've got you've got to sort of understand how it works.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: But um, yeah, it's a lot to learn, but it's all it's all incredibly interesting stuff.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think it's really great.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm the the the amount, you know, we've done a like I said, we've done a bit of work with um with with a number of different um companies that deal with the PI and clinical negligence space.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: And it was it was always very interesting, and it was always very interesting to talk to the financial planners who were in the business because it it did just feel so different.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: Now, there was a qualification, the step, I think it's step qualification, step accreditation, um, which um some advisors do within that space as well.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, is that something you're doing or thinking about doing, or did do you need to have the step qualification to do the role itself?
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, you don't.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think there's a lot of um a lot of uh education around trusts that you do through the sort of standard um the the chartered kind of route and that sort of thing.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's what I'm focusing on for the time being.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think um I think it's definitely the steps definitely something to be to consider for sure.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess the difference that we've got with maybe some of the other firms that are in are in the um in this space is that I work for the law firm.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, at the end, you know, I've all I have to do is jump on the online, the the company directory, and there's 500 solicitors that I can ask questions about trusts and things to.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, we've got some huge resources within the firm there to be making sure that any advice we're giving, we're not we don't tend to just be giving it ourselves.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we are giving it ourselves, but we bring a lot of those um other other members of the company into the process as well.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_02: So when when the money's actually paid out.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: So let you know, let's say I um, you know, I I've gone I've had an injury, I've gone through the courts um and the money's being paid.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you've established that Sam needs this much money.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: Can I sort of say, well, I don't want it paid that way?
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_02: I want to just I just want everything in a lump sum and I'm gonna walk away and spend all my just just do what I'm gonna manage my money myself.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Or do they have to engage with an expert financial planner and you know receive that income on a on a monthly, yearly basis?
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_02: Does that make sense?
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, can I as a client just do what do it myself?
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I I don't know about technically whether you can or not.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's like anything, it's like if you're if you're turning up to court for any kind of crime or any issue, you can represent yourself.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_00: Whether that's a good idea or not is is another question.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, but generally, you know, the the solicitors who are litigating these claims will sometimes have worked with the family and worked with the client for years, you know, five, ten years plus.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_00: So kind of over that that uh time frame, you can imagine the family becomes incredibly trusting of those solicitors.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's just a a long process that works out what is going to be best for that that disabled person.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think almost once you kind of get to the end of that that road, the question's been answered so many times through the various reports and things like that, that it's I've not really heard of any kind of uh conflict, I guess, between the claimant wanting something different than what is being recommended to them.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think the other thing as well to keep in mind is that for for kind of smaller value claims, you know, anything kind of under half a million quid really, you're probably not going to be looking at um PPOs as much.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it is more, it's more where there is going to be a really high level of care need.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: And often it's not like it's all, well, almost all of the ones that I've seen, it's never that you're getting paid only in income and no money.
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it might be that you're getting 100,000 as a as a periodical payment and then you're getting a five million pound settlement.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's not often that you're going to get 500,000 as an ongoing payment and nothing as a lump sum.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: That would be really, really unusual.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's normally a combination.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: God, it's so much that I just just baffles my mind because there's so much to take in to be a financial, you know, to to to predict really what that person's life was going to be like.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, to say that.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of the some of the reports we get done, um, and you know, we we do a big part of this as well, is just um is looking at those projected costs.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it's incredible the detail they get down to.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they get down to like holidays, what's your annual holidays going to be?
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, it's not just about providing for this person for the bare minimum, it's about the fact that they shouldn't be in this situation.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: How do we best replicate the life that they would have had anyway with with a financial uh with money, with with money, yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like so like if you or I wanted to go on a family holiday to to Portugal, you know, we go on booking.com, we'd find a hotel, boom, done, couple of gram, whatever.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: If this person wants to go on holiday, they're gonna need to take two carers with them.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: They're gonna need to um probably uh fly, if not, if not business first class, because they've got chairs and things they can't actually fit them and their equipment.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, once they're there, they're gonna have to probably have a suite or something, not because they just want to be ballers, but because they can't enter the the regular sort of room.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: So everything becomes a lot more expensive, and they really do get into that granular level of detail.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, two holidays per year will cost roughly X, project that out until age 60.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: That's an extra amount added to the to the settlement.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's important because, yeah.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_02: Does it also take into consideration?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: So let's say, for example, is a child, and the child hasn't had the ability to obviously raise a family and possibly have had that opportunity taken away from them.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_02: Does it take into consideration sort of life events that that individual might well miss out on as well?
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: That you can't really put a monetary figure on it because it's does it is there a way to take that into consideration?
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: So if I was four years old and I had a really bad injury and it wasn't my fault, I couldn't have children, for example, or even care for my children if I did have them.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: Does that is it taken to is it is it taken into consideration and how'd they do that?
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, as far as I'm aware, no, it's not really.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and actually it's quite unfortunate because you get some you get some circumstances where um like where the payout doesn't match the emotional distress that that family's gone through.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, sometimes it would be that um if there's no financial damages that can be attributed to that to that negligence, they can't they don't give you a money because they don't give you a a sum because it's an awful thing that's happened to you.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's really tough.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the ones that come through, and a one that comes up often is um mesothelioma claims, like asbestos-related claims.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that person could have been sick for a really long time and it's an awful way to go.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: But because they've only got two years worth of life expectancy left, the claim is only payable for two years worth of their costs.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: So actually the claim amounts are are small, and yet that family's lost their lost their parent or their grandparent or whatever.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be really tough because sometimes you look at it and you think that's just not fair, that, but unfortunately it it does come down to the to the pounds and pence at the end of the day.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_02: So it sounds to me like you've kind of landed in a role which is really quite interesting.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not just financial planning, but it's just such a an interesting side to it as well.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_02: And you mentioned that Erwin Mitchell also doing um moving into the space of like wealth management with existing clients under the solicitor side, so getting in with families and uh and and doing that type of thing.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_02: So is your job split between the two then?
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_02: Do you get involved in the the the clinical negligence PI side and also the wealth management of families underneath Erwin Mitchell?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's fairly recent.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's an area where um there's a huge potential within within the firm, obviously.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: And um, we're just just at the kind of the building relationship stage at the moment.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: So getting to know the family the solicitors in the family team, tax trust and estates, there's obviously so much advice you can be providing those sorts of people.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know I know a lot of IFAs deal with people going through divorces because often they are going to be receiving a lump sum, pension sharing orders, stuff like that.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of things that a lot of issues where uh us as financial planners can assist as well.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: And are you sort of typically dealing with quite large sums of money, or um do you tend to find that it's, you know, when you're at the bank, for example, it might be somebody with a 50 grand bond or in, you know, something like that.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_02: Erwin Mitchell, does it tend to be high net worth or ultra high net worth clients that you would be seeing?
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's a real mix, to be honest, on the wealth side of the business.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: There's obviously there's obviously a lot of people who I um who I see who are very wealthy individuals.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then again, even people who don't have a lot of money, if they're getting divorced, they need a solicitor a lot of the time.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a lot of people that come through the firm who are just who aren't necessarily financial planning clients.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm really lucky, I guess, in that I've got a lot of leeway from from the business to try and help those people as much as as we can.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, a lot of my day is spent speaking to people who aren't going to become clients of of um asset management, but you're just helping them out with, you know, should I put my money in S and I talking about financial um services compensation scheme, you know, just stuff like that, giving them a little bit of information to kind of help them out without knowing, without expecting them to actually be investing anything with us.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the gap that's kind of missing and it's starting to be starting to come to fruition now, which is this coaching side, isn't it?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got the financial, you've got the financial planning side, which is like I'm going to write a financial plan for you, cash flow forecast, you've got a nice lump sum of money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_02: But not everybody can really afford financial planning or are suitable for financial planning.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: Some just want to be given a bit of coaching, given a bit of advice around what to do without the actual full financial planning piece.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: Um so is that what so Urban Mitchell, you're they're sort of allowing you to sort of bridge that gap at the moment with some of the clients that they have that might not fit the wealth proposition.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's not a formal thing by any means, uh, and there's no kind of fees involved for it.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think really it comes from it comes from the DNA of the business of being in PI.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I mentioned before that sometimes a solicitor can be litting a claim for five, 10 years.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess in our kind of business is built in a lot of work where we might speak to a potential claimant when the child is four years old, right?
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe mum and dad are really struggling with the mortgage and they don't, they can't, they're not making ends meet.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we will we will happily sit down with them for as long as they need, just talk through their issues, kind of point them in the right direction, and we don't charge them anything for that.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just kind of a a um rapport-building piece.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then it might be six years later that that family then received their claim.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Because they've spoken to us for three, three, four, five, six times over the years, when they receive two million pounds for their child, the first person they're going to want to speak to is us.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there's a lot of a lot a lot of that built into the business, not expecting them to end up as clients, but knowing that if we're out there and we're providing a lot of value to people, that eventually there'll be a percentage that will end up coming back to us.
• 53:13
  SPEAKER_02: Very much that giving of service, that giving of content, that giving of help, and um in the hope that one day it might come back to you.
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_02: And more often than not, it tends to because people think, well, yeah, you know, Jason was really great, really great to me during that period.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um and interestingly, because obviously you joined Owen Mitchell during lockdown, which has been a bit of atrocious.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_02: So um you've had a lot of time on your hands.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: And what I've noticed and seen is that you've started to embrace social media, personal branding, um, and YouTube being one of those areas as well.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: And it's really great for me because I get to sit back and although I've got lots of connections and followers that I sit from Instagram and from LinkedIn through the years of of building a uh, you know, building a network, uh, it's great to see some of the financial planners start, you know, put their head up and sort of say, look, I'm here, you know.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it's amazing when it happens because it totally raises your profile.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, your profile was is certainly raised a lot higher than loads of financial planners, quite simply by investing in a bit of uh video content, pictures, posters, and all that type of stuff.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_02: So you've been given a bit of freedom by the looks of it to do that underneath Irwin Mitchell.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Just tell us about that.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_02: Why did you start making videos, putting them on YouTube, offering financial coaching and help to those who need it?
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so I guess the first thing that my compliance department will probably want to say that anything I'm putting up on social media is very much myself.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, you know, it's it was important to have that conversation.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: But um, as I'm sure anyone who works for any kind of larger company, if it was under the Irwin Mitchell branding, it would be everything would need to be checked by compliance.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously I'm really aware of the line, so I'm not ever concerned about that anything that I'm saying in any of my content is advice, but it is uh it's definitely coming from me personally.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think I think that actually is kind of what I want to be doing anyway, because it is like you mentioned the term personal brand.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think especially with where our industry has come from, you know, you see um you see a headshot on a glossy website, and you know, it it can be really hard to to know who that person is as an actual person.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and people by people at the end of the day.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, for me, I just uh, you know, you've got a bit more time around the house to be to than you would if you're doing commute commute every day and that sort of thing.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I just felt like it was going to be a really good uh way to get my face out there for clients who potentially are thinking of coming to see me, they get a bit of a snapshot of that beforehand.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: They kind of know who they're going to be talking to, they can either buy into me or not, but at least we kind of cover that.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: It gives them that little bit of insight, I suppose.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I think I think that's been growing in importance over the years anyway.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, you know, I think the whole COVID situation has obviously accelerated that.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I've just been really enjoying it.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think it's it's like you said, it's it's interesting how you start to, and it's early days for me, but I think you start to create these kind of real online networks.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the social network uh documentary, I don't know if you've said not social network, social dilemma um documentary has been on Netflix, and I think there's a lot of stigma about it.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the problem is that often when we're on social media, you just kind of you scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I found it really interesting to be on the other side where you're actually using it for something purposeful.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: You're thinking, what do people want to see?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_00: What could I put out there that will people will find useful?
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_00: You get that immediate feedback through the analytics and stuff like that.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, I've been really enjoying it.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: So okay, I've noticed that you've you've started to embrace YouTube and something that I'm looking at on the I'm sort of on the outside, I'm looking in, I'm I put my podcast on there.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't really do much around the keyword research, I just put it on there as another place where someone can watch it.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: So I haven't done a mut I haven't done much in in respect of yeah, the keyword research and making sure that it's being found.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_02: However, I've built a list of content ideas, I want to re I want to record videos and I want to put them on YouTube.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_02: Now I could do that.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: I put all those videos on YouTube and they won't get found.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: So how what are you doing to ensure that all that energy and effort that you put into your video uh is useful, it's it's worthwhile.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: What are you doing to to help you get your videos found?
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess uh they're not getting found too much yet, I guess is the first thing, first thing to say.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um well you had one last week that's got 799 views in a week, I think that's yeah, I suppose in the grand scheme of things, that's pretty small for our stuff.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: But I think I think um that's okay that and that's kind of part of it, and I think that's why it's important whenever you I you know I get quite obsessed with things when I'm when I'm going headfirst into them.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been doing a lot of research, watching a lot of YouTube videos, doing a lot of reading.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, a big part of what the the YouTube algorithm kind of rewards is consistency.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: So it's almost like you have to stick through these early stages where you're not getting a lot of views because you know you can understand it from their perspective, right?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, they want people staying on YouTube as much as possible.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: So if you drop a video today and then you don't do another one until February next year, that's not building an audience, that's not building a connection where people are going to spend a lot of time on YouTube.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it is early stages, and I guess where I'm at at the moment with it is is doing that keyword research.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm doing quite a bit of that.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: I use this tool called TubeBuddy, which kind of looks into the analytics of what people are looking for online.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it's really just about finding what people, the way people are asking questions, um, and finding where you can potentially fit into that.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, an example, my the the most recent video I put up is is just about ICES.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is an Icer?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_00: What are the different types of ICE, benefits, pros and cons, stuff like that.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I titled that video ICEs Explained, no one is ever going to find me because there is, you know, Martin Lewis, there's you know a load of much more famous people than me who are gonna rank higher.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: What I found was doing that research is if I titled that um uh which is the best ICE for me, that is a search term that people are searching for, but there's not as many um permeations of that title for the title of the video.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: So actually, if you type in which ICER is best for me, I come up number one on the list of your YouTube um search results.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just basically about finding the ways that people are asking their questions uh online, on you know, typing their questions and then trying to match your video to that.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_02: And so being competitive, yeah, so you know, looking at the competitors and say you can't win against Martin Lewis if you're picking the the the top question that's asked on Google, for example.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly right.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's about being smart with how you are how you it's because it's all about the title, isn't it?
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_02: On on YouTube.
• 59:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's all about the title, the the um the description and stuff is important as well.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: Basically, you for all of these social media platforms, I'm realizing you've just got to play their game.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they've they've all got they've all got certain things that they they want they want to do, they want you to do, and it all basically comes back to the fact they want people spending more time on their platform.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, again with YouTube, they prioritise in the search results um uh videos that are over 10 minutes.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're watching a two-minute video, you've got what you need, you're off, you're off YouTube.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you've got a 10-minute video, even if the person gets bored halfway through, they've still watched five minutes rather than two.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's about not waffling because people are going to leave then anyway, but it's about finding those things where you've got enough content that you can you can get into it in a reasonable level of detail.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_02: So YouTube can obviously then sell advertising space as well, can't they?
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_02: So the longer the more advertising space they can do.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um obviously uh you've got about 250 subscribers now, haven't you?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to hit a thousand, didn't you, before you can start monetizing it?
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a thousand, it's a thousand subscribers and four thousand watch hours as well.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: So the subscribers is one thing, but the 4,000 hour mat, that's 240,000 minutes, is a lot of a lot of uh a lot of time.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_02: What what what's your end game with it?
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_02: Are you planning you just doing it for a bit of fun as well?
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or are you just doing it to raise your profile or are you trying to do it to to monetize it?
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_02: What what's your sort of end game on it?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, the monetizing side of things is not uh definitely not the not the um um number one objective with it.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is just that profile raising.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, for me, I just want to I I would love it if I had a big enough profile where you've got people coming to me and asking questions.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_00: And again, it's this it's the same kind of thing, right?
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I would love to be able to have 20 conversations a week with different people that have found me via social media or found me via YouTube, provided a lot of value to all those people, being able to help them with those questions, and then on the hope that one or two of them might actually become financial planning clients of the firm.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, in a lot of ways, I see it as an extension of the old school networking, and I think it's this shift.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, advisors would join golf clubs, they'd join tennis clubs, they'd, you know, go to networking events, they'd join B and I um B and I, what's it called?
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_00: B club yeah, breakfast clubs, isn't it?
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, stuff like that.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we can't do that anymore, and I think that's becoming less popular anyway.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, this is just the same thing, it's just a really wide, wide uh net networking type of thing, really.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you make some videos, you cut them up, you use them on different platforms, you're quite you use your Instagram, you're using your Facebook, aren't you?
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_02: You're using Facebook or not?
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I got uh Instagram because it's owned by Facebook, you can have it so that anything you post on Instagram automatically feeds to Facebook.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm not not spending a lot of time on that just because I don't really use Facebook myself anyway.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um but it's interesting because the different the different platforms, um, like Instagram, for example, I could put out something like a video about pensions that I spend a lot of time on, you know, put the headings in, put the titles in, and like no one really gives a shit.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then I post a picture of like my son falling asleep as we're pulling into the car school car parking lot, and people absolutely go mental love, well, relatively speaking, you know, I get a lot more traction on that.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think again, that's kind of been reinforcement to me that yeah, putting the content uh around financial planning is important, but actually people care more about who you are.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they kind of expect that you know what you're doing when it comes to a pension, but they want to know can I sit down with this guy and have a chat with him for an hour and feel comfortable to talk about my money?
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think uh Instagram as well is about lifestyle, isn't it?
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_02: So Instagram is more lifestyle and quick digestion of information.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_02: So if someone wants to know how can I make some money out of an IC, they want to know that in 60 seconds.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_02: Um, LinkedIn's, you know, it's a funny one.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_02: You've got to pick your approach on different platforms.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I it's all about time, isn't it?
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like it takes time to create these videos, it takes time to create the videos, it takes time to research keywords and everything.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: Then you've got to repurpose it and repackage it for different platforms.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_02: It can be bloody exhausting managing your own social media, let alone what you're saying about the more you put it out there, the better you get, the more questions you get.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_02: Now, 95% of those questions are going to be really like annoying.
• 1:03:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like you'll get approached by lots of people who you can't do anything for to make money for yourself.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: Do you know what I mean?
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_02: If if you're doing it to try and make money, it's it's a it's a tough old gig trying to build a following because people want information for free.
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got to work out a way to to answer those questions and monetize it, which is why the advertising, et cetera, on YouTube is quite so good, because you can monetize those questions.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_02: So if people are asking you the same question over and over again, make a video of it.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully you can respond, you can point them in a direction of videos, and hopefully it helps other people with the same things.
• 1:04:30
  SPEAKER_02: But um, I found using like um I found using social media um really useful as a business.
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like we push it quite hard at Recruit UK, I always have done.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, in the bulk, we get a lot of business on an internal basis, you know, from sorry, not on an internal basis, in inward from inbound from putting ourselves out there on social media, you know.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: Yesterday I had three people contact me.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm looking for a job and two job opportunities.
• 1:04:55
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all I've done is put a video, and and I hadn't even put a video out that day, I don't think.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just and what I found with LinkedIn as well is when you put content out there, it stays out there.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's yeah, so I'm keep I keep getting likes and shares of stuff I've put out there that's been out there for weeks.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I've just fanced.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not I don't know if I'm sold on LinkedIn.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: I because I went through a phase where I was putting a lot out there, and I don't know if you know Gary Vanichark, Gary V, he's all about LinkedIn and he's always pumping it up.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, I don't know.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's um it's an interesting one because I think there's there's you get a lot more organic reach there, you know, a lot more people will see what you put out there, but um I'm not sure whether the the people there's less potential as a financial planner, anyway, there seems to be less interest in um a potential client relationship.
• 1:05:40
  SPEAKER_00: It tends to be because I think everybody's on there kind of to promote their own business, whereas if you go on something like Instagram or YouTube, people are there to learn about things that will help them personally.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I mean obviously working for a lot of people, but I'm not for me, I'm not sure.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_02: LinkedIn, you need to LinkedIn needs to be a combination of both.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_02: You need to build your front, what I would call your front um your front connections, so your first connections.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um you need to build that up.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're building any content that the relevant people are seeing it, you shouldn't be accepting everybody's LinkedIn request.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_02: You should really be in like super duper, super duper niche on your audience.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_02: So if my audience is financial planners, power planners, etc., I should really be building those audiences because the problem is if people start liking your stuff, which is outside of the market that you're looking to target, then it starts to get shifted into that, into their market and not the market that you put.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_02: So I put a video out recently, and you may have seen it, um, about the end-of-life planning guy.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: Now, I put it out there, and he's loads of his mates have liked it, but they're not in the financial planning space.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_02: When I look at the when I look at the analytics, it's very few financial planners have actually watched it.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_02: So you've got to be quite specific with it, but also it's about using the the messaging system as well.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_02: So again, financial planners are so not using LinkedIn properly.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_02: They see it as a as a as a I mean, like you know who your clients are on there, okay, what jobs they do, how much they're probably earning, where they live, everything about them.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_02: And it's you just you just I don't think financial planners are using it in the right way.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's a recruiter, we use it like we but I mean we pay for recruiter accounts.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_02: So messaging is really, really key and automating your messages as well, you know, sending out like or using an automated messaging service like LinkedIn helper or something along those lines is really useful, building first connections, but also engaging with those connections when you've actually brought them on board.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um definitely under utilized um LinkedIn by financial planners for new business generation.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've got a really there's a girl that I use called Paolo Um Forsberg.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_02: Um she she's ex um private banker, but she represents financial planners um and helps them build lead that generate leads, but through automated messaging systems.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: So really, really good, really useful.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: Um Jason, listen, I appreciate your time today.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's been lovely talking to you.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: Lovely to learn about um the clinical negligence and PI side there at Irwin Mitchell because I think it's a really interesting route for anybody getting into financial planning.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you there are different avenues you can go down, and clinical negligence PI is certainly one of them.
• 1:08:20
  SPEAKER_02: And Irwin Mitchell are certainly at the top of the tree when it comes to that type of business and that type of work.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_02: So thanks for telling us a little bit about your journey from Australia as well to the UK.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, I like the fact that you said sometimes you've got to leave your ego at the door, and I think it's something that we can all do.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, we think we should have it straight away, but you've got to kind of step back a little bit and play the game, and eventually it will come.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's not easy to get into the likes of Irwin Mitchell, Jason.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like with many a person we put across to them and um a failed interview.
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it's not an easy, an easy task.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_02: So um you're obviously doing the right things and have got the right experience.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_00: Manage manage to sneak through the door.
• 1:08:56
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:08:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's Andrew, that's because we were representing you.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: Jason, thanks so much for your time today, mate.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me, really appreciate it, Sam.