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The Keep · The Director's Chair Network

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  Thank you. 00:29 --> 00:48 Good day and welcome to another episode from the Director's Chair Network. I'm your host, Ryan, and this season we are covering Michael Mann films. And with me today, a very special guest, Doug from the Good Times Great Movies podcast. Welcome for the first time to this podcast, Doug. How are you doing? 00:48 --> 01:00 I'm doing great, Ryan. Thanks for having me. I am excited, question mark, to talk about this movie. I'm actually really looking forward to what this discussion actually is or maybe becomes. 01:01 --> 01:13 Yeah, we did discuss beforehand of what we thought of the movie. We're going to hear from each other for the first time with each other what we think of the movie. We do another podcast called The Worst of the Best Podcast. If you're listening to this, you can check out my other show. 01:13 --> 01:27 And Doug was kind enough to, a couple of years ago, do a guest spot on that episode where we covered horror films based on true stories. But Doug and I are both fans and you've been on the podcast of Who Are These Podcasts. 01:27 --> 01:47 I know you from guest spot in there and you cover movies on your podcast and that's why you're on this. It's a weirdly tied podcast universe, which I love for me personally. Podcasting has not given me money. It has not given me any kind of fame or any kind of notoriety. However, I've made a couple of little online friends and relationships, which has been the highlight for me. 01:47 --> 02:15 I feel the exact same way for there being, I'm going to say millions of podcasts out there. It is oddly a tight knit community where I've met a lot of, I hate the phrase like-minded individuals through podcasting, but live in a relatively small town. I don't really get to talk about movies with a lot of other people. Certainly not the movies that I watch. I have no interest in talking about Marvel movies or whatever. And that seems to be what everyone wants to talk about. 02:15 --> 02:44 No, this is this sort of podcasting endeavor, which I've been on for 10 years now, which is insane. It has been really good. And it's introduced me to a lot of really great people. My show is called Good Times Great Movies. 10 years, my co-host and I, we really understood what we were capable of, which is two episodes a month. And I feel like that really, that's the reason it's lasted. People do podcasts every week. I couldn't even imagine. We only cover movies from the eighties. 02:44 --> 02:51 Good, bad, indifferent, and we treat them all the same. We good natured ribbing, kick them around a little bit, whether we like it or we don't. 02:51 --> 03:11 Of course. That's the only way you can do it. Sometimes the quote unquote bad films are sometimes the most fun to talk about. I love the Godfather, but I don't know how much fun maybe I would have talking about the Godfather because it's such a great film. Sure. What hasn't been said about those films? And so what you're tackling on your show, which I like is that, yeah, you're tackling films that aren't maybe as well known. 03:11 --> 03:18 B film, C films, who knows what kind of films are called films. And so it adds a lot more fun discussion, I think, covering those types of films. 03:18 --> 03:26 Yeah. I don't even know that I'm doing this on purpose. I think I'm using the podcast as a reason to watch movies I've never seen before. 03:26 --> 03:42 Like we have not talked about Goonies or Gremlins or Breakfast Club. Nope. Never talked about that movie at all in 10 years. But I would have never, ever seen Rhinestone if it weren't for my podcast. And Rhinestone is an amazing film. 03:42 --> 03:43 It's a fantastic film. 03:43 --> 03:49 Yeah. I heard it was the worst thing ever. I watched it. I was like, this is a delight and everyone needs to see it. So. 03:49 --> 03:57 Great plug. Yeah. I love it. It's funny. I did a deep search on the list of episodes you've done and you have not covered a Michael Mann film from the 80s. 03:57 --> 04:12 No, no, we haven't. And I think I can say this without spoiling my thoughts on the movie. My co-host and I made a deal. If we go on other podcasts to talk about movies from the 80s, they are not going to be covered on our show. 04:13 --> 04:13 Really? 04:13 --> 04:14 Yes. 04:14 --> 04:15 And you're still able to cover that many films? 04:15 --> 04:33 Yes. And my co-host, I will speak for her. I'm sure she's quite delighted that I'm out here talking to you about this and she does not have to watch The Keep. I know what she likes. I know what she doesn't. There's no way. There's no way. I don't even know if she'd make it. 04:33 --> 04:33 Ironically. 04:33 --> 04:34 Through the film. 04:34 --> 04:36 You don't think she would ironically enjoy the film? 04:36 --> 04:37 No. 04:37 --> 04:38 Oh, wow. Okay. 04:38 --> 04:38 Nope. 04:38 --> 04:45 Fair enough. It's funny. When I reached out to you, I gave you a list. Of course, I told you I'm doing Michael Mann films this season. 04:45 --> 04:50 And I would like to have you take a pick of whatever. I did. I give you a list. What was available? I can't remember now. 04:51 --> 04:57 I don't even think you gave me a list at, you know what? You may have said I was thinking this or this. 04:57 --> 04:59 I had a few, I had a few left over. 04:59 --> 04:59 Yeah. 05:00 --> 05:13 Okay. And because they're being taken. I sent them out. I shouldn't do this, but I sent them out to four people at the same time. It depended on who responded first. I'd have to then tell the other three. Oh, oops. Those two are taken off now. So next time I'm going to do one at a time. 05:13 --> 05:24 I know. I think this is great. Especially if people that may be on the show are listening, there's this urgency. They shouldn't drag their feet. If they get a text from you or an email, they need to respond immediately. 05:24 --> 05:31 But you did. And you picked the keep right away. I don't think there was any hesitation. And what were the reasons for picking the keep? 05:32 --> 05:42 Okay. This is going to be a very unpopular opinion. I'm not a huge Michael Mann fan. And I don't. Yeah. I enjoy his filmmaking. 05:43 --> 06:00 The types of films that he is known for are just not films that I really enjoy. I have given heat so many chances and I see the artistry. I understand why people like it, but honestly, not a film that connects with me. 06:00 --> 06:14 Same with Miami Vice. And I do like thief. I really do. And the keep, I like it because I think it is a, it's a big swing. Like it is a big swing and it might be a miss, but I really appreciate it for that. 06:15 --> 06:35 And I was never a big fan of manhunter either. And I think it was because I saw it well after silence of the lambs and I just couldn't get those characters out of my head. I looked at Brian Cox and I was like, this doesn't seem right. This doesn't feel right to me. Yeah. I'm not a big fan of heist movies, gangster movies, and things like that. 06:36 --> 06:42 Yeah. He definitely deals with crime and that sort of thing. What did you think of the outlier? The last Mohicans. 06:42 --> 06:50 Oh, the last Mohicans. I really like, but the problem I have with that movie is it doesn't feel like a Michael Mann film. 06:50 --> 07:02 You're going to say that. I do. Yeah. Because the two films you like by Michael Mann are the key and the last Mohicans, the two most not Michael Mann ish type films. Sure. Yeah. 07:03 --> 07:12 Last Mohicans really is a great movie, but it doesn't feel right. It's like saying that your favorite David Lynch movie is Dune. Okay, fine. But boy, is that not a David? 07:12 --> 07:40 Lynch movie. Yeah. And that's what I love about starting this network that I've done for those who might be listening because you're on the show, which is very possible. So this network for the first time, my first season was Edward Zwick films and where I covered his filmography. And what I found with him is there was very little. His underlining directors. What do you, I don't know what to call it when they have a theme that they seem to run with. Okay. Quentin Tarantino might be feet. For example, John Woo's the doves. 07:40 --> 07:57 Just some sort of stylistic flourish. Yeah. Stylistic flourish. And Michael Mann, certainly when you watch thief and then you can right away, I hadn't seen thief until I covered it with Kaylee on the first episode. So when I saw thief, I saw right away, Oh, there's your blueprint for Miami vice and heat and man Hunter. 07:57 --> 08:02 so I like oh okay this is what Michael Mann does but Edward Zwick what was interesting about him 08:02 --> 08:07 he didn't really have that he had themes that he was drawn to which was like relationship themes 08:07 --> 08:11 that was his big thing it had to do with and didn't matter how big the cast was you knew every 08:11 --> 08:16 character every character felt important and he was really good about making that his theme is that 08:16 --> 08:21 because he did television before he did film with that were like relationship driven television 08:21 --> 08:26 drama so when he went to film he was able to really keep that a cohesive theme throughout his 08:26 --> 08:32 films it was about relationships so the reason why I chose Michael Mann for my next director to cover 08:32 --> 08:36 is because much like Zwick I just there was a couple films I liked when I was younger and I was like oh 08:36 --> 08:41 who is this guy what else has he done I do this network the same reason why you chose to do your 08:41 --> 08:47 podcast was I wanted to talk about films that I hadn't seen before by directors that I enjoy so it 08:47 --> 08:51 forced my hand if I'm going to do their filmography I'm going to have to watch some of the films with 08:51 --> 08:54 Ed Zwick there was like three to five films I hadn't seen of his even though I'm a fan of his 08:54 --> 08:58 films and Michael Mann's the same thing if someone to say to me three months ago do you like Michael 08:58 --> 09:02 Mann films oh yeah I like him I like him as a director if they say what's his first film I wouldn't have 09:02 --> 09:09 been able to answer thief okay yeah so by diving into their filmography I'm like oh he did this film and 09:09 --> 09:14 he did that's why I do this podcast too Doug is I wanted to tackle films and talk about films that 09:14 --> 09:20 aren't Marvel and let me get it as Star Wars even there's just tons of those out there and these are 09:20 --> 09:24 a little bit more niche I guess you could say I think your first two choices for directors are really 09:24 --> 09:29 great choices because thank you I think that you've probably with both of them seen enough to know that 09:29 --> 09:34 you're safe going into this it's not going to be I don't want to assume that you feel the same way I do 09:34 --> 09:39 it's not like a Kevin Smith situation where it's okay great you're off and running and then okay I 09:39 --> 09:47 gotta add him to my list right wait I have to sit through eight more what yeah he's an interesting 09:47 --> 09:51 one too isn't he that might be a tempting one to do but he's ah see that's the funny thing some of his 09:51 --> 09:56 films might really feel like a slog but more than not though was it red state was that the one red oh 09:56 --> 10:03 yeah red state yeah that was a great film again because it wasn't very Kevin Smith that's what I love 10:03 --> 10:07 about directors I think it's fascinating or even it's like when you have an artist or a band that you 10:07 --> 10:12 enjoy and maybe the singer goes solo or the band does a concept album that wasn't quite their thing and 10:12 --> 10:19 it could be fans really like that change of sound or the other way around fans hate that change so it just 10:19 --> 10:25 depends what you enjoy as far as flavors go yeah and I do appreciate directors stepping outside of I don't 10:25 --> 10:30 even know if their comfort zone but what they normally do to try something different even if it is a one-off 10:30 --> 10:35 great I love it yeah it is interesting the last one he comes and it really was done so well under the 10:35 --> 10:42 tutelage and direction and mentorship of Michael Mann that he didn't investigate another type of 10:42 --> 10:50 epic scale film like that I wonder why yeah I'm not sure I don't did well the box office it did well 10:50 --> 10:57 with awards it did well all around he didn't tackle another yeah like a western or some sort of another 10:57 --> 11:04 ah well maybe he didn't feel like he had the control that he wanted or something like that if the studio 11:04 --> 11:09 took over or something I don't know but you're right it was a huge success it's kind of surprising that he 11:09 --> 11:15 shifted away from that again you heard when I did the episode thief that I think I already talked about my next 11:15 --> 11:21 season it's going to be oh Terrence Malick texted you immediately I immediately told you I want to do 11:21 --> 11:27 this or this you right away text me listening to that and so I'm going to give it to you on the air 11:27 --> 11:33 which one do you want to cover I was really hoping you would make the decision let's go badlands let's go 11:33 --> 11:39 bad okay all right good good start okay all right so have you seen this movie before coming on the show 11:39 --> 11:47 yes I've seen this movie multiple times wow yeah this was a movie that when I was in it must have 11:47 --> 11:54 been high school it was a VHS tape that was going around like friends of mine and okay I was into horror 11:54 --> 12:01 I'm still a big horror dork love it and it was really pitched like this is a horror movie and I remember 12:01 --> 12:09 watching it I didn't understand it this was the moment in my life it still jumps out at me that I 12:09 --> 12:16 felt like I was watching art like for the first time I watched a movie and I was like oh no I'm not used 12:16 --> 12:22 to this I'm not comfortable with what I'm seeing it feels too weird I don't like what I'm seeing but I also 12:22 --> 12:29 I can't look away I want to watch this after that I forgot about it for a while I may have even gone 12:29 --> 12:34 through college without seeing it again and it popped up I thought about it I watched it again 12:34 --> 12:41 and then you would start to hear things about how okay there's like a three and a half hour cut out 12:41 --> 12:46 there this is not what he wanted a real true is that really true I don't know that's the thing like 12:46 --> 12:54 vinegar syndrome just put out this 4k box which I have and it's beautiful they did yeah oh yeah 12:54 --> 13:01 show it yeah let's see whoa that is a sweet looking cover that's a sweet cover there it's a nice it's a 13:01 --> 13:11 box you get a poster in here it's a 4k wow it's a blu-ray and 4k edition of the film I'm blown away 13:11 --> 13:16 what's the extras on there what are the extras see that's the thing I was expecting a three and a half 13:16 --> 13:21 hour cut like I really was when I say expecting it I read through what the extras were I knew it wasn't 13:21 --> 13:26 there but I assumed there would be something in there about it and there really isn't and when all 13:26 --> 13:32 this was going around and everything and I really started to research the film I found it was out it 13:32 --> 13:40 was based on a book yep and I read the book well you did yeah holy smokes I'm gonna sit back and just 13:40 --> 13:47 relax this is amazing I know I was for a brief period or little pockets of my life I was obsessed with this 13:47 --> 13:53 movie so I read the book and here's the thing and I'm just gonna lay it on the table I'm gonna basically 13:53 --> 14:00 say my thoughts of this movie please I think the first half of this movie is brilliant I really love 14:00 --> 14:09 it until we get this sort of until it gets too into the romance and the movie just becomes a bizarre 14:09 --> 14:16 romance between these two and three and a half hour long cut fine the book is the same way there's nothing 14:16 --> 14:25 in this movie that isn't in the book and vice versa those faithful adoption it's pretty faithful and the 14:25 --> 14:31 book has the same issues where you're watching a bunch of Nazis get killed by some sort of vampire 14:31 --> 14:38 golem monster and then suddenly it's a weird disjointed romance for a while and the book really 14:38 --> 14:44 slows down grinds to a halt and then we get an ending that does feel rushed the book is the same way it's 14:44 --> 14:51 very strange yes that is hilarious yeah I don't know if I mentioned on the thief episode maybe we did but 14:51 --> 14:56 we're two for two now with Michael Mann first two films where they're based on novels where he adapts 14:56 --> 15:03 where he does the screenplay from the novel yeah so I don't know what Michael Mann is so let's talk 15:03 --> 15:06 about that before we get too deep in the film so I'm wondering I'm trying to get in the head of Michael 15:06 --> 15:12 Mann my question I have for Michael Mann is when he did a movie like thief which we all agree it's a very 15:12 --> 15:19 great debut film it's well done the music the James Caan the direction the feel of it is a fantastic debut 15:19 --> 15:25 I'm watching the keep for the first time I've only seen it the one time I saw it this week just 15:25 --> 15:29 before I try to watch it within the week's time when I do an episode and I've seen it for the first 15:29 --> 15:40 time and I'm like it's it was a fun watch but I'm confused the story is confusing no but but I think 15:40 --> 15:47 what you're saying is the choice to go from thief to this this feels like something that once you are 15:47 --> 15:53 trusted once you got Hollywood behind you you make one for you and this is what you do and you're like 15:53 --> 15:58 yikes that didn't work out okay what is the one for him or is this the one for Hollywood I don't know 15:58 --> 16:05 I have no idea I'm not sure what's in his head why he did this I have a guess correct me if I'm wrong 16:05 --> 16:11 what came out in 82 Raiders yeah okay so the first thing I thought about when I saw this film 16:11 --> 16:17 this is a Raiders of the Lost Ark movie in that it just had that feeling and this is the time of 16:17 --> 16:24 in that area and I'm not getting all the years but this is Raiders Romance of the Stone Goonies all 16:24 --> 16:31 these kind of weirdly adventurous type films of just a bit of mystique or not fantasy is the right word 16:31 --> 16:37 because this is the real world but we have it's the real world but also it feels like a fairy tale 16:37 --> 16:44 at certain points there is something mystical about this movie but like you said with Raiders 16:44 --> 16:51 yeah it also doesn't it have a Raiders feel it does it feels like a very slow Raiders put this way 16:51 --> 16:55 this could have easily been an adventure of Indiana Jones you could tweak it just a little bit this 16:55 --> 16:59 could have been an adventure of Indy to go to this keep and figure out what kind of demons there 16:59 --> 17:06 I would take Harrison Ford every day over Scott Glenn you make that Harrison Ford strangely enough 17:06 --> 17:13 a guy who just mugs at the camera most of the time bringing more charisma to this role my theory is that 17:13 --> 17:19 was the flavor of Hollywood was these type of films amongst a lot of other films I think he took his 17:19 --> 17:27 stab at making his indie movie now I enjoyed watching this film objectively it didn't work yeah I 17:27 --> 17:34 understand why this film didn't work yeah watching in 2025 years and years later it's a fun nostalgic 17:34 --> 17:39 kind of watch to see a bomb of a film that's where cult followings come from because you can watch it 17:39 --> 17:45 with no pressure there's no expectations when I watched this it was more of a fascinating I can't 17:45 --> 17:50 believe Michael Mann the director of Last of the Mohicans and Heat did this it just seemed weird to me 17:50 --> 17:57 if you even wanted to put yourself in that time period if you had seen Thief and you were obsessed 17:57 --> 18:03 with that movie sure I know who the director was knew he was making something new I couldn't imagine 18:03 --> 18:08 how disappointed you'd be going to the theater and sitting down and watching this there had to be 18:08 --> 18:12 somebody in the theater that was just like there's some movie nerd who oh cool he's got a new film 18:12 --> 18:19 coming out oh and Tangerine Dreams doing the soundtrack again sign me up okay wait a second listen if that's 18:19 --> 18:24 all you're interested in is um is that Michael Mann's behind the camera and Tangerine Dreams doing the 18:24 --> 18:29 soundtrack you got them both here because I do think just like Thief I love the soundtrack I think 18:29 --> 18:35 it's a good soundtrack I think the soundtrack is great the opening like just the length of that opening 18:35 --> 18:42 scene with them rolling into this town and that score I think it's beautiful and this movie sets up 18:42 --> 18:49 a promise that is never delivered upon that's what I feel watching this it sets the table and it takes a long 18:49 --> 18:58 time to set the table for something that never really happens there never is that level of excitement there's 18:58 --> 19:05 not really that payoff you're hoping for at the end of the movie it's a nice looking movie it's the type 19:05 --> 19:13 of movie that you put on at a party if you have a giant television sure and people can look over at any 19:13 --> 19:19 point be like this looks incredible just don't pay attention to it just look at it it's great 19:19 --> 19:24 all right so let's talk now a little bit about the cast you brought up Scott Glenn but I want to talk 19:24 --> 19:31 about him last because he was first billed for whatever reason in this film so when I do talk about the 19:31 --> 19:36 cast I usually just start with the names of just who are the actors that I know today in 2025 that I don't 19:36 --> 19:43 have to look up and there's a lot that I didn't know who they were until fifth or sixth down the cast 19:43 --> 19:48 a big name pops up oh I should also say when I saw this movie I went in blind I didn't know a trailer I 19:48 --> 19:52 didn't know anything about it it's not like they do my movies I haven't seen great I don't want a fun way 19:52 --> 19:57 to do it yeah it's the best way to do it so when I saw the Nazi tanks a German Nazi I'm like okay this is 19:57 --> 20:02 where we are in the world cool sure so the thumbnail that the site had for the movie was the demon 20:02 --> 20:07 yeah so I knew there's something otherworldly about so when the movie started off with the 20:07 --> 20:11 German tanks I'm like what is going on here we got German tanks but we have this demon and then we 20:11 --> 20:16 have this place called the keep I should say if you're a first-time listener we will spoil we're 20:16 --> 20:20 not going to go out of our way to spoil but we're going to talk about things that happen in the movies 20:20 --> 20:27 all right so it's 1941 in Romania during World War II and a German I had to get phonetic I had to use AI 20:27 --> 20:32 to tell me the phonetic because old German names so I didn't want to sound like a total moron no this is 20:32 --> 20:40 great okay bear with me folks no I'm glad you're doing this and I'm okay so it's 1941 we're in 20:40 --> 20:49 Romania it's World War II and a German Wehrmacht unit led by Captain Klaus Vermin takes over a spooky 20:49 --> 20:59 abandoned citadel called the keep to control you new pass in in the Carpathian Mountains a strategic choke 20:59 --> 21:05 point vital for their military advance into Soviet territory so I had to look that up because I wasn't 21:05 --> 21:12 even sure in the film but I was a little confused why is the Nazi or German military even here why are 21:12 --> 21:19 they in this keep why are they setting up camp and staying here for a long time blink if you miss it 21:19 --> 21:24 that's why they're there but when you say you had to look it up again the book's like 400 some pages 21:24 --> 21:33 so the book gets into more details because this is 1941 when the Soviets and Germans were still working 21:33 --> 21:41 together and they basically set up camp here and took control of this just in case that relationship 21:41 --> 21:48 went south so this was just a way to get into the Soviet Union if they needed to or keep them from 21:48 --> 21:55 getting out what I'm confused about is this is the keep a tunnel is there a way to go through it to 21:55 --> 22:00 the other side why is this a choke point why is this village outside the keep is there through traffic 22:00 --> 22:07 yeah that's what they thought it was and it turned out not to be the case I think it was more that they 22:07 --> 22:15 received bad information okay fair enough okay now things do go south I think one of the first nights 22:15 --> 22:22 they're inside the keep when two soldiers free the spectral entity Radu Molassar and the reason why 22:22 --> 22:29 they do this folks is because I guess scattered throughout the keep are these glowing silver crucifixes 22:29 --> 22:33 that they said were made out of nickel but they also found ones that were made out of silver and they 22:33 --> 22:38 were trying to rob the silver crosses essentially and by dislodging the crosses they somehow broke the seal 22:38 --> 22:44 yes is that the idea you got it no you got it yeah it's no more complicated than that 22:44 --> 22:54 so this demon is being held inside this cage of sorts this magical cage and the way to get him out is 22:54 --> 23:00 just to pop off the silver crosses that's it I don't know if they let him lose or just made him mad 23:00 --> 23:06 that's what I'm a little bit confused about is okay because no one in this movie ever expressly 23:06 --> 23:14 explains to be redundant why what is happening that's the fun of the movie is you are just watching 23:14 --> 23:19 and trying to figure this out the same way that the characters that are in the movie as well but again 23:19 --> 23:24 once we get to Scott Glenn that doesn't make any sense throw all of that stuff out the window but 23:24 --> 23:29 that's why I love the first half of this movie where we're just watching nazis get killed and we 23:29 --> 23:33 don't really know what's going on there was a village just for our listeners who haven't seen the film 23:33 --> 23:39 the village sort of exists a very small little community exists outside the keep do the villagers 23:39 --> 23:44 know what's inside the keep are they keeping the keep are they in cahoots with the demon I don't know if 23:44 --> 23:50 they're in cahoots with the demon but they're aware of what's in there and they don't want any part of what 23:50 --> 23:56 the nazis are doing certainly so why don't they just tell the nazis hey just while you're in there 23:56 --> 24:01 don't take any of the crosses off that's bad news I don't listen okay I don't want to come on this 24:01 --> 24:08 podcast and say things like maybe we shouldn't help out nazis but let's not help them out that's the 24:08 --> 24:13 danger is that this demon could be unleashed onto the world that's the whole danger that's what the 24:13 --> 24:18 demon wants he wants out of the keep and I felt like by taking out the crosses was step one to get 24:18 --> 24:23 himself loose okay all right so I that's why I was wondering why the villagers are saying whoa 24:23 --> 24:29 we don't want him out either we're here to keep him side to keep yeah you're asking me questions that 24:29 --> 24:34 I cannot answer I apologize I should have even said I read the book I should have been like oh no I just 24:34 --> 24:38 saw this movie yesterday for the first time I watched it for the first time just like you Ryan I just 24:38 --> 24:42 happen to understand it a little bit better than you exactly you mentioned the village and I think the 24:42 --> 24:48 village is such an important part of this movie because I'm a big horror fan I'm a big fan of folk horror 24:48 --> 24:54 and stuff that's what the beginning of this movie feels like or foreigners that come into a town 24:54 --> 25:01 that like has a secret and everybody's creepy a little bit and it has such a wonderful tone to it 25:01 --> 25:11 the one thing I will say about the book is the monster in the book is like specifically a vampire like 25:11 --> 25:18 there's no bones about it yes yeah really so some of the things still does the thing like it is draining 25:18 --> 25:25 energy from people but it's also physically feeding on them in the book so it is a little bit different 25:25 --> 25:33 in the book uh in the movie this thing looks like a giant golem monster it's pretty cool yeah it's pretty 25:33 --> 25:39 cool the thing that there's just the dude in a suit is fun like at times it doesn't look great especially 25:39 --> 25:44 near the end when I'm like I don't know maybe we don't need wide shots of this thing but I appreciate 25:44 --> 25:50 practical effects and makeup and costumes and stuff like that I'm glad you read the book because if I had 25:50 --> 25:54 anyone else on it's kind of like when I asked Kaylee to come on she was a big fan of thief it's weird 25:54 --> 26:00 I'm two for two of my guests who have come in with not only a knowledge of the film that they've 26:00 --> 26:05 volunteered for but a fandom which yeah makes my job easier no that's great okay so what else happens 26:05 --> 26:12 here all right so an officer named Eric Kempfer shows up blaming partisans and executing villagers 26:12 --> 26:18 while a Jewish historian Theodore Cusa played by Ian McKellen is brought in to decode a strange message 26:18 --> 26:24 and he ends up indebted to Malsar the demon because he heals him of his ailment after he saves his 26:24 --> 26:29 daughter Eva that's very uncomfortable sexual assault he always smelled coming a mile away in the 80s oh here 26:29 --> 26:36 we go how far are we gonna go with the scene uh-huh whether it's the keep or revenge of the nerds like really 26:36 --> 26:42 yeah good old 80s had a lot of that didn't it they really did yeah couldn't get you would know with all 26:42 --> 26:49 the films you covered it's you should have done like an excel sheet of all the essays and 80 films the 80s get 26:49 --> 26:54 a lot of flack for that because a lot of very big movies from that time have that we actually haven't 26:54 --> 27:00 run into that a whole lot and oddly enough like we've covered movies that are like we just did 27:00 --> 27:07 American Gigolo which is at 1980 like right at the beginning oh yeah and it is wildly progressive like 27:07 --> 27:13 it's oh crazy with some of the movies that kind of slipped into the 80s it almost feels like it was an 27:13 --> 27:19 accident something from 2019 just made its way into the 80s just with the themes and how progressive they 27:19 --> 27:27 are but no there's plenty of awful shit in 80s movies that's hilarious okay we'll get to the cast 27:27 --> 27:33 now back to Ian McCown who does play Dr. Theodore Kusa who was in a wheelchair what was his condition 27:33 --> 27:38 again do you recall the condition his condition was being very old okay all right so of course this 27:38 --> 27:47 movie came out in 83 so that's 42 years ago logically i know ian mccown is probably close to 80 is he not now 27:47 --> 27:57 probably oh yeah okay 80 80 is in the rearview i believe yeah so i knew logically that he was not old 27:57 --> 28:10 like old like the way he is now in 1983 i'm not even joking i thought he just looked old then the way he does now i didn't realize it was makeup for the first half of the film 28:10 --> 28:36 i agree completely so when he gets healed i was like oh yeah because he gets healed in the film and the makeup comes off and just regular ian mckellen yeah still looking like a rough 42 year old but ian mckellen looking the youngest that i've ever seen him on film yeah and it's like oh there he is i got tricked by the makeup it's almost like they did an amazing job of being like this is exactly what you're gonna look like 30 years from now 28:36 --> 29:05 yeah because usually they overdo the future makeup or do the aging on people they nailed getting ian right 30 odd years later i was fooled so ian was 42 at this time okay oh my god wow so he played dr theodore kusa he was a jewish historian and the germans brought him in from a concentration camp because he got wind or word that he was able to decipher ancient languages 29:05 --> 29:34 yeah so when this being starts killing german soldiers writing starts appearing throughout the key start appearing i thought it was always there oh maybe that's the book either way oh yeah yeah in the book there really wasn't anything beforehand there certainly wasn't writing but as soldiers would disappear and were killed they would stumble upon areas where they were suddenly writing and yet they learned of this 29:34 --> 29:56 this jewish jewish scholar who could decipher these languages yeah so that's why they bring him in so he came in with his daughter because his daughter was basically pushing him in a wheelchair daughter was played by an actress's name alberta something oh i had it somewhere alberta watson i think it was okay alberta watson now that he was 42 he must have had her or wouldn't he i guess he probably had her when he was 20 that's fair 29:56 --> 30:03 sure i guess that's fair yeah so anyways we'll go back to ian now when he deciphered that language 30:03 --> 30:09 i've got the scene here for you the viewers what did it remind you of my brain went to gandalf 30:09 --> 30:15 one of his most famous roles ever i've created two videos that it's going to be a tough translation 30:15 --> 30:19 if you're watching or sorry just listening to this on your audio feed so i do apologize 30:19 --> 30:24 the first one is just the scene strictly as it is of ian mccann's character with the germans 30:24 --> 30:30 deciphering the language and then it's going to segue into the film from lord of the rings that 30:30 --> 30:35 remind me of the same scene played by ian mccann what does it mean can you understand it 30:35 --> 30:49 the form is in the imperative it says i will be free it is all slavonic but within the glycolytic 30:49 --> 30:58 alphabet your partisans are writing to you in a language that has been dead for 500 years 30:58 --> 31:06 now not only do the makeup look like modern day ian mccann from the lord of the rings films but 31:06 --> 31:13 he does his voice and this is a huge flaw with movies is for some reason a lot of actors feel like 31:13 --> 31:19 once they get the old man makeup caked on they have to do this old man voice that just sounds 31:19 --> 31:26 ridiculous but it's still him right he's not putting on some sort of act he's literally just 31:26 --> 31:32 being like oh this is probably what i'll sound like when i'm older and he nailed it he's like method acting 31:32 --> 31:37 to a t it's almost oh i did that scene back 40 years ago and now i'm in the lord of the rings films 31:37 --> 31:44 i better sound like i did as an old man because i am old now ian nailed his own old man voice yeah 31:44 --> 31:50 it's pretty crazy so here's the scene so the germans brought him in so now just pretend frodo is the 31:50 --> 31:58 german asking what the writing is that's what there were markings it's some form of elvish i can't read it 31:58 --> 32:05 there are a few who can the language is that of mordor which i will not utter here 32:05 --> 32:12 okay so obviously then he goes into the translate so it also reminded me of the scene of when they're 32:12 --> 32:16 at the mines of moriador when it says speak friend and enter and they're trying to figure out the 32:16 --> 32:21 writings on the wall so when i saw this in the film holy crap oh listen you put gandalf in a wheelchair 32:21 --> 32:26 and put a little blanket over his legs it's the same character it's crazy are you familiar with the 32:26 --> 32:32 lord of rings films am i like not really i saw them but it was in the theater not since okay there 32:32 --> 32:36 might be a few of our listeners watchers who are familiar with them so i'm hopefully i'm not boring 32:36 --> 32:43 you but i spent an hour doing this next clip so bear with me okay so it's too quick okay sorry okay okay 32:43 --> 32:48 so i literally spent an hour doing this so at the end of the film the doctor played by ian mckellen 32:48 --> 32:53 faces off against the demon they do face to face with each other and then when i'm watching this 32:53 --> 32:59 ian mckellen's acting and the scene it's almost like they ripped because this came out after that 32:59 --> 33:03 they were ripping off the pages of the lord of the rings books that had yet to be filmed 33:03 --> 33:05 but check it out here we go 33:05 --> 33:22 the keep is a prison to contain you and you have lied exploited deceived and you are the same evil as 33:22 --> 33:30 outside this place so you prove yourself to me you take it out of here do yourself 33:30 --> 33:35 take it 33:35 --> 33:59 so there you go come on you gotta put that up on youtube nerds would love that shit 33:59 --> 34:13 so there was that one and i actually meant i think that's the better of the two so for our listeners i had the doctor face off against the bellrog and now i have a scene of the demon from the movie faced off against gandalf here we go 34:13 --> 34:25 return to the disease state i found you in and i'll slay both of you i am certain to the secret fire 34:25 --> 34:36 the elder of the flame of honor flame of uldun go back to the shadow you shall not pass 34:36 --> 34:48 fly you fools there you go that did that's great that's really great it's fantastic no it's really 34:48 --> 34:55 good it's certainly nothing i thought about i hope ian mckellen thought about it i hope on the set 34:55 --> 35:00 of lord of the rings he saw something there you gotta admit the first clip like i said it's a 35:00 --> 35:03 little bit better because it's a little bit longer but with him yelling at the wall the balrog but that 35:03 --> 35:09 the demon when he was yelling the demon i was like holy smoke i'm reminded of how much gandalfian this 35:09 --> 35:16 character is i've seen other ian mckellen films this one was very much gandalf definitely yeah no i could 35:16 --> 35:20 see it yeah i certainly didn't notice it when i was watching this is nothing that i honestly would 35:20 --> 35:25 have thought about but it's pretty great and like i said put that up on youtube you got it 35:25 --> 35:30 so what are your overall thoughts on ian mckellen as an actor have you enjoyed him over the years do 35:30 --> 35:35 you seek him out or it's just good that he's in the film oh cool he's here yeah i think he's one of those 35:35 --> 35:41 faces where i'm like oh great he's in this i know he's going to be a wonderful presence he's a pro 35:41 --> 35:47 there are just those certain actors that when you see their name you realize okay good or bad 35:47 --> 35:55 he's going to be bringing it in this particular film he has a presence in the keep definitely i think 35:55 --> 36:03 gabriel byrne and the other nazi officer i enjoyed their interplay i think gabriel byrne is the 36:03 --> 36:09 one's a german and one's a nazi they're disagreeing different ways of i think he's the one that's 36:09 --> 36:15 constantly we have to get out of here we should get out or maybe i'm transposing the two but that's 36:15 --> 36:21 the part of the movie that i like the most is the interplay between these german and nazi officers 36:21 --> 36:28 and how they are approaching and trying to deal with this evil presence and the murder of their 36:28 --> 36:32 men in very different ways we're talking about gabriel byrne he's actually next going up the cast list 36:32 --> 36:37 that was the name i knew right away like i saw the name so it's names where if i see the name i'm like 36:37 --> 36:41 i know what they look like i could name some films around gabriel byrne's another actor where he's a good 36:41 --> 36:46 actor whatever he does he's going to do a good job he was a young 33 year old in this film and he 36:46 --> 36:53 played eric kempfer the bad german he was a real nazi yeah so he was the bad guy in this representing 36:53 --> 36:59 the real evil in the world not the mystical evil in the world what do you think of gabriel as an actor 36:59 --> 37:05 of course the usual suspects i loved oh god what was the name of the film where he was the devil against 37:05 --> 37:12 arnold schwarzenegger is end of days yes it is a wildly stupid movie but yes it is but it is so 37:12 --> 37:17 much fun he's a great devil in that movie he really is i wonder if he drew from his time on the keep he 37:17 --> 37:23 channeled the demon from that to play the character yeah maybe he's great i love seeing these actors early 37:23 --> 37:29 on in their career yeah that's the thing i went to this film cold so when these names popped up like ian 37:29 --> 37:34 back to you know this a little bit he had a lot of screen time for six on the casting role i feel like 37:34 --> 37:41 had they flipped it made ian second or first even yeah it would have been out of place ian had a lot 37:41 --> 37:48 of screen time compared to scott's screen and why is that that's what i'm unsure of because even though 37:48 --> 37:55 listen i'm doing a podcast in the 80s we honestly and maybe it's because we're not getting into british 37:55 --> 38:02 film or something like that like we haven't come across ian at all oh but even scott glenn he was never a 38:02 --> 38:07 leading man listen we're talking very early 80s and i don't even know what he was in before this but 38:07 --> 38:16 i don't quite understand why the cast is listed in the order they are i have an idea yeah because if 38:16 --> 38:21 you look at the actors we're going through it is officially i guess an american film and they're 38:21 --> 38:27 probably going to try to get the american audience to watch this film starring ian mckellen who starring 38:27 --> 38:38 jürgen prox now who i think they went with the american i think that is very fair but also and i 38:38 --> 38:45 don't know if michael man had a hand in this at all choose a different leading man okay fine if you're 38:45 --> 38:54 going for star power again you just came off of thief which was a huge success and well regarded 38:54 --> 39:00 i just don't know why scott glenn was the only one you could get look around hollywood you could 39:00 --> 39:06 probably find someone that would put butts in the seats oh i have another theory too i said i love your 39:06 --> 39:11 keep theories just go i love it i don't know what else do i have i have nothing but theories with this film 39:11 --> 39:17 was blowing my mind i don't even know why it exists why does it exist why did michael man do it and then 39:17 --> 39:21 why do they make it the demon not a vampire and why is scott glenn the starring man of the movie 39:21 --> 39:28 but i have a theory yeah he was in the movie just three months previous the right stuff which was a big 39:28 --> 39:37 hit oh yeah okay so the right stuff comes out huge commercial success big hit and they're like oh crap 39:37 --> 39:42 and the keep was released in december the same year so they would have had time to go 39:42 --> 39:50 switch up do you think they did that maybe because scott glenn's barely in the film yeah it wouldn't 39:50 --> 39:57 surprise me if they did that because of my podcast and because of the 80s one thing that i really 39:57 --> 40:02 appreciate all the way through every single movie we're talking about people look real people look like 40:02 --> 40:08 real people it's not like a bunch of abercrombie models that they had to memorize the script they 40:08 --> 40:14 look rough yeah and that's the thing about this movie everyone in it feels like a real person they 40:14 --> 40:23 look rough scott glenn is a character actor he is his face has character in it he should not be a 40:23 --> 40:31 leading man i am less ugly tom lee jones exact yeah less ugly i don't know which one would you rather 40:31 --> 40:39 marry would you rather marry a tom lee jones looking guy or scott glenn boy okay i'm trying to envision 40:39 --> 40:47 a 20s 30 year old tommy lee jones because i don't know what that looks like have you seen him 40:47 --> 40:55 google his high school picture he looks 45 yeah okay okay and i have to say i feel like that's a 40:55 --> 41:00 coin flip honestly i do not find one of them one has blonder hair one has darker hair they have that 41:00 --> 41:07 rugged has your face never not been in the sun look exactly lance henrickson has that same look they all 41:07 --> 41:13 feel like they were made in some sort of bizarre factory just to be like kind of background actors or 41:13 --> 41:19 coal miners that became actors it's the rugged look which i don't have i'm grateful i don't have it i'm not 41:19 --> 41:25 gonna lie because i don't want to look 50 when i'm 25 yeah but then when you're 80 people will be like you 41:25 --> 41:31 look amazing for 80 because you look the same when you look 80 30 years ago that's the ian mccallum thing 41:31 --> 41:37 like yes i wasn't too sure and so when they took off his makeup yeah he looked younger but he'd still look like 41:37 --> 41:43 a rough 42 year old imagine tommy lee jones in this sex scene let's say that okay yeah so yeah 41:43 --> 41:48 gabriel burn did a great job not much more to say to that he was the main bad guy nazi now we have 41:48 --> 41:54 two for two i saw the name come up and now i'm like hey i know this guy because i'm covering a thief i 41:54 --> 41:58 don't think i mentioned this movie i mentioned that robert proski was in something else i might 41:58 --> 42:02 even said that he was in the future michael manfield i can't remember now correction to my first episode 42:02 --> 42:08 robert proski is now two for two for michael manfilms he shows up as father michael fanescu 42:08 --> 42:13 yeah okay almost unrecognizable he was the main priest dude that was him from my thief all right 42:13 --> 42:19 i'm glad you said that because i was actually going to ask you if there was any crossover between the 42:19 --> 42:24 thief cast and this because i wasn't aware okay yeah he looks totally different too like he looked his 42:24 --> 42:31 uh every much his he was 50 in that film he ironically looked younger in this film than he did in thief 42:31 --> 42:37 yeah so while he didn't have glasses they darkened his hair they gave him a beard and so i guess he just 42:37 --> 42:43 looked a little bit younger that way now when alberta watson's character when she came in on the priest 42:43 --> 42:49 played by robert proski near the end of the finale there what was he doing in the church was he sacrificing 42:49 --> 42:55 something it was a weird scene that she bursts in the door yes then she leaves there's no conversation 42:55 --> 43:00 between was there some sort of ceremony going on or something i don't know i know the scene you're 43:00 --> 43:07 talking about it's one of those things that is not explained and while i appreciate that in movies i feel 43:07 --> 43:13 all the time like i do not need my hand held i find keep some stuff from me i love it but when you do 43:13 --> 43:19 that that seems bizarre and while i said that there's no reason for us ever to see a three and a half hour cut 43:19 --> 43:24 of this movie because i don't think you actually you would watch it though you i would watch it but 43:24 --> 43:28 maybe there'd be a little more information about that particular scene that's just it because she 43:28 --> 43:33 burst it what was she doing was she looking for somebody or something that i don't remember if she 43:33 --> 43:39 was looking was she looking for her father i don't remember something because she burst through the door 43:39 --> 43:44 like the action's been ramped up we're near the end of the film but the tension is rising so she burst 43:44 --> 43:48 through the door and robert prosky's character looks over his shoulder looks at her they look 43:48 --> 43:53 at each other and i was just so quick i'm like i could have paused and looked at it but he was that 43:53 --> 43:58 sit in front of a table or something yeah was he praying to the demon god that's why i was confused 43:58 --> 44:03 were these people like minions of the demon did they worship the demon that's where i thought it was 44:03 --> 44:08 going to go that they were going to be the cult of the demon so to speak yeah and i would have loved that 44:08 --> 44:15 reveal like give me yeah give me a wicker man reveal that's a great example that's right yes i 44:15 --> 44:21 would have loved it the town folk are in cahoots with this demon fantastic i had assumed that he was 44:21 --> 44:29 trying to perform some sort of ritual to keep the demon in the keep or something but again nothing is 44:29 --> 44:34 stated it's a real quick scene and sometimes you could do that sometimes in the shining you can have a 44:34 --> 44:40 guy in a bear suit given a butler a blowjob and it's great like you don't need to explain it but in 44:40 --> 44:45 this i need something somebody tell me what's happening and the book doesn't explain it if it 44:45 --> 44:51 does i don't remember right sure one of the things i really remember about the book is how many scenes 44:51 --> 44:58 there are of the scott glenn character sitting in a tree watching the woman just watching her like 44:58 --> 45:06 long lengthy scenes of him in his own head talking about how much he loves her and like even reading 45:06 --> 45:14 the book i'm like you're there to do a job dude there are chapters of this book wow so many sex scenes 45:14 --> 45:23 in this book oh really very detailed very graphic wow yeah holy smokes yeah you're reading a vampire 45:23 --> 45:29 movie and then it turns into an erotic novel for a little while it's interesting that you mentioned 45:29 --> 45:36 he's a vampire because it's funny how they took that motif of the vampire the crosses were that makes 45:36 --> 45:41 sense that's why they had the crosses and that's why they have the church and the priests in the town 45:41 --> 45:48 because those are religious things that usually vampire lore crosses crucifixes so that makes sense it's 45:48 --> 45:55 weird that they built everything for a vampire on the sets but they changed it into a golem demon yeah 45:55 --> 46:01 that's why i keep coming back to the golem thing is because we're leaning into judaism at times and 46:01 --> 46:09 things like that yeah i just don't understand the choice to if it is a vamp but it's not a vampire it's not 46:09 --> 46:16 a vampire like that's the thing is it does suck the life out of people yes we see that but yeah but 46:16 --> 46:22 yeah i guess fine we could call it a vampire because of that it doesn't kill anyone that we 46:22 --> 46:29 see on screen with actual no it seems to be actually no how did it kill those two germans that were essaying 46:29 --> 46:37 the daughter um again yeah i don't even know how it killed them because everything happens off screen 46:37 --> 46:44 yeah don't we see the one guy just get thrown out of the room it's speaking of off screen whatever 46:44 --> 46:50 the end scene where gabriel burns character before he gets killed by the demon he's walking through and 46:50 --> 46:56 sees all the soldiers and machinery destroyed burning great effect but you know why it was done that way 46:56 --> 47:05 no lack of budget oh and lack of special effects it's actually cool we see the destruction of the demon on 47:05 --> 47:11 the german army inside the keep but we don't see it we just see the results i think that actually adds to 47:11 --> 47:15 the because we're actually seeing it through the eyes of gabriel burns character seeing it for the first 47:15 --> 47:19 time he didn't see it happen he just sees the aftermath and as a viewer the film that's actually cool 47:19 --> 47:24 they wanted to film the fight the showdown the demon in the army but they didn't have the budget 47:24 --> 47:29 for because the special effects dude died after production so they weren't able to do it oh i had 47:29 --> 47:36 no idea oh my god okay wow all right but ironically the lack of budget and time made for a better sequence 47:36 --> 47:45 of just him discovering the aftermath yeah i agree with you to a certain degree but i think one of the more 47:45 --> 47:51 effective moments of the movie is when the two soldiers go through the wall or at least the one 47:51 --> 47:58 soldier goes through the wall i think that's pretty nice and we are spending time with the two of them 47:58 --> 48:04 we're not exactly sure what happened to the one guy but we are spending time with them and we're seeing 48:04 --> 48:09 everything through their eyes and i'm glad that we got that scene and it's not just gabriel burn like 48:09 --> 48:16 warning around being like okay he's dead right for a movie that just is kind of languid and kind of 48:16 --> 48:23 you're just hanging out just watching paint dry with a an amazing score i'm glad that we did get a few 48:23 --> 48:30 scenes of tension for 96 minute film there was a lot they still could have cut oh yes for a movie where 48:30 --> 48:34 people are yelling for a three and a half hour cut i'm like can we just get rid of more of this i don't 48:34 --> 48:39 know what people wanted to subject themselves to the rumor is there's more character development sure 48:39 --> 48:45 but the scene of scott glenn's character coming across the ocean that took forever yes there's a 48:45 --> 48:49 boat in the water yes you're traveling by boat nothing happens on the boat there's no interaction 48:49 --> 48:54 with any of the characters on the boat yeah you travel by boat no yeah we don't need to see him travel 48:54 --> 49:00 from where was he was he hot reese or something okay this character was played by an actor's name 49:00 --> 49:06 jürgen prock now when i saw the name on the credits when they were rolling i didn't recognize the name i admit 49:06 --> 49:11 but when i saw the face of the actor playing the quote-unquote good german the one with the conscious 49:11 --> 49:16 i did recognize his face oh i've seen that face somewhere before have you seen it before i know 49:16 --> 49:21 the name but i can't pinpoint i was really excited for you to tell me what else does boot das oh of 49:21 --> 49:27 course okay yeah he was the commander yeah no you're right yep and i think that might be one of the 49:27 --> 49:33 i've seen some of his other films he was in beverly hills cop 2 okay he was in judge dread with stallone 49:33 --> 49:39 he was in the english patient air force one okay killers so he's been a lot of films again he is 49:39 --> 49:45 like another guy with he's in the same school he's a totally jones scott glenn are you a burn victim 49:45 --> 49:51 type face listen that is just i'm smoking and drinking for most of my teens 20s and 30s that's 49:51 --> 49:57 what that look is he's a handsome man in his own right but that weathered face i don't understand it 49:57 --> 50:02 he's still with us today he's 83 now okay so he was in his 40s during this time but yeah das boot 50:02 --> 50:08 incredible film highly recommend that film oh yeah he's had a great acting career right up until 2019 50:08 --> 50:13 again he's 83 now so he's probably so yeah he's probably retired his last film was 2019 his last tv 50:13 --> 50:20 appearance was 2018 i would say you can rest now sir jerkin you can rest you've had a full life you are 83 50:20 --> 50:26 he was born in germany and he's been living in the states since 2004 yeah very nice yeah good for him 50:26 --> 50:31 i hope he's there legally because i don't know how that's working oh no what a tragedy to watch that on 50:31 --> 50:37 the news okay all right so that was him he did a great job for me i think he was the highlight actor 50:37 --> 50:42 in the film what do you think oh he's wonderful you could sympathize with him i could totally understand 50:42 --> 50:49 the struggle of his character and he strangely enough felt like the hero of the movie honestly 50:49 --> 50:55 so yeah this was the part of the movie that i liked like these were the characters i enjoyed spending 50:55 --> 51:01 time with yeah absolutely okay and then we have alberta watson who plays the daughter of ian mckellen's 51:01 --> 51:06 doctor she is actually from canada there you go she was born in ontario canada she died 51:06 --> 51:15 oh in 2015 at the age of 60 oh my all right that's that's complications of cancer yeah yeah that's too 51:15 --> 51:21 bad so there you go she was good and we'll talk about her love making with scott in fact yeah she 51:21 --> 51:27 was good but she was the loving daughter of the doctor serviceable not a distraction not really a 51:27 --> 51:35 highlight but her relationship with scott glenn's character and this was a very confusing part for me 51:35 --> 51:42 watching this film i didn't understand why they were hooking up so quickly and they had this weird 51:42 --> 51:47 montage that was supposed to indicate a lot of time but i think it was literally like a 24-hour period 51:47 --> 51:54 maybe 48-hour period and they're just like madly and deeply entrenched with each other which i it does 51:54 --> 51:58 happen in the world don't get me wrong people can show love and fall love hard but for the purpose of 51:58 --> 52:04 the storytelling what's going on here that's the thing you said it can happen yes it can happen it 52:04 --> 52:11 happens all the times but not in these circumstances there's a lot happening around you that should 52:11 --> 52:16 distract you from falling madly in love with a stranger you know is it the mystical hold i think 52:16 --> 52:22 that is what we're meant to believe now again what is scott glenn's character what is it is he human did 52:22 --> 52:27 he get possessed by something who was he before he woke up in his bed with the start at the beginning 52:27 --> 52:31 or halfway through he's first listed as credit in the film he doesn't show up till halfway through the film 52:31 --> 52:36 he jumps up out of bed did he get possessed by something did something enter his body and they 52:36 --> 52:44 became somebody else well he is he is connected to the keep is that human form connected or does 52:44 --> 52:50 something enter him he's not human like i do not believe that he is human if this thing is a demon 52:50 --> 52:59 he is an angel he imprisoned this there he built the keep that is what he's responsible for why he would 52:59 --> 53:05 leave that's what i don't understand but i think that seemed like he was awakened did it seem like 53:05 --> 53:11 was it the idea that he was awakened literally but it made it seem like he was just taking a nap or just 53:11 --> 53:17 asleep for the night it's not like he woke up in a tomb somewhere and had to dig his way out like he 53:17 --> 53:22 literally just woke up and was like all right now i have to go to the keep and take care of it wasn't 53:22 --> 53:27 there a scene where there's some sort of mystical force leaving the keep there was like a cloud that was oh 53:27 --> 53:33 yeah like a cloud ghost yeah yes a lot of 80s did the cloud stuff special effects in the 80s yeah 53:33 --> 53:39 something left to keep and entered that body now according to my good does that make sense oh that 53:39 --> 53:46 totally makes sense and now i'm really wondering if that is what happened in the book i'm trying to i'm 53:46 --> 53:55 trying to oh okay i don't know so like a spirit left and right control of a person but why go so far 53:55 --> 54:01 away why you just exactly yes that's the thing that doesn't make any sense why not just take control of 54:01 --> 54:10 the daughter great do it yeah why not that would be great if she's in the keep trying hard to defeat this 54:10 --> 54:16 demon great give her something to do but yeah it does seem odd that it would choose a guy who 54:16 --> 54:23 in the god damn it why do i know so much about this stupid book like in the book he is in portugal 54:23 --> 54:31 that's how far away he is why is he so far away from the one thing exactly yes i think in the movie he's in 54:31 --> 54:37 greece or something which is still far enough away why is he just hanging out the town why is he just 54:37 --> 54:44 if this is the one job this guy has is to keep this demon from it does seem like it is simply filled 54:44 --> 54:51 with the elderly it doesn't they don't seem able-bodied enough to fight a keep monster maybe 54:51 --> 54:57 he's not in the town because there's no one to bed he is just horny this thing he needs to go to other 54:57 --> 55:05 towns to like bed younger woman so i do like how a spirit responsible for defeating a demon is set loose 55:05 --> 55:10 and the first thing is it's like i need to get laid didn't they talk about why are they having sex 55:10 --> 55:14 wasn't that brought up i think the question was why are we doing this what did he say i want to 55:14 --> 55:21 experience this feeling or something yeah i yeah it's more of a i want to experience life like i want to 55:21 --> 55:31 know what this is like then why why did you come to me become my lover to touch as only mortal man can do 55:31 --> 55:37 so i think in that regard you're probably right where it's some ancient dead thing that just wants 55:37 --> 55:46 to live but also to get horny distracted is not a good idea so just so i'm understanding this as only 55:46 --> 55:55 a viewer of the film i'm piecing together a spiritual entity left the keep entered a body of sorts in greece 55:56 --> 56:02 travels back to the keep in said body we don't know if that body was living its own life it could 56:02 --> 56:08 have been on a business trip had a family back in america somewhere we don't know and then goes back 56:08 --> 56:16 to the town yes has coitus with the daughter just to feel what it's like to have coitus and then he's 56:16 --> 56:21 like i better go take care of that demon because he's breaking out that's a reading of the movie and 56:21 --> 56:28 i think my reading is very similar i thought that scott glenn was just a being that would live forever 56:28 --> 56:34 and has existed forever i never looked at him as though he was possessed by anything like he built the 56:34 --> 56:39 keep and hung around that town for i don't know 300 years it was finally like i'm gonna take a vacation 56:39 --> 56:46 to greece and the moment he left all the shit went down i just quickly googled sure who was glaken his 56:46 --> 56:53 name in the keep is it says here he was an immortal man calling himself ironically his name in the movie 56:53 --> 57:03 was glenn did you catch that okay it's terrible come on but it just so happens the character's name is glenn 57:03 --> 57:14 but his name the immortal creature is glaken tris mega tris megastus oh i can't pronounce that glaken 57:14 --> 57:18 is the first i love how these immortal creatures have a first and last name yeah you've got the wrong 57:18 --> 57:25 glaken you're looking for glaken tris megastus that's what you're looking for a first name in the 57:25 --> 57:33 phone book what are you doing according to google he is a reluctant champion of the ancient forces of light 57:33 --> 57:40 is there any of this ringing a bell no okay he becomes aware of rosslum's activity from across 57:40 --> 57:47 the world and then he travels to the keep he built the keep as a prison for rosslum out of the reluctance 57:47 --> 57:54 to kill him outright i do remember that he built the keep i do remember reading that in the book i don't 57:54 --> 58:01 remember the reluctance to kill him just make him a little house instead of kill him uh when i was doing 58:01 --> 58:07 this kind of type of research there was no wikipedia though that was the problem so according to the 58:07 --> 58:13 book plot this is the book yeah an immortal man calling himself glenn whose real name is glaken is 58:13 --> 58:17 a reluctant champion of the ancient forces of light the two beings are mystically linked in a way that 58:17 --> 58:23 binds their destinies together even though rosslum's growing mystical powers are vastly greater than glenn's 58:23 --> 58:31 to keep him from ever forgetting his mission the forces of light had taken away his reflection 58:31 --> 58:43 i don't remember that so like a vampire the entity responsible for the deaths calls itself molasar 58:43 --> 58:49 and it finds professor kuzo useful monster yeah wow did you know the book has a sequel 58:49 --> 59:00 there are six of these actually whoa yeah yes is it the ongoing adventures of glaken i never read 59:00 --> 59:06 any of the other ones it's called the adversary cycles a series of seven so there's six sequels to 59:06 --> 59:14 the keep jesus this rabbit hole is it's insane i don't think any other film and michael mann's 59:14 --> 59:19 filmography is going to make me do this can i ask you a question since you're on the wikipedia when was 59:19 --> 59:25 the keep written i think it was written the same year that it was filmed i was going to bring that up i 59:25 --> 59:31 didn't want to say that and be wrong but 81 so yeah it's like a year and a half before it was filmed and 59:31 --> 59:39 the book was a relatively well-known book like it sold pretty well people were into it had some stephen king 59:39 --> 59:45 ish type horror in it i'm just wondering honestly if this is just a book that michael mann really liked 59:45 --> 59:52 it's not like this book was written 20 years ago and this was an idea that had been like bandied about 59:52 --> 59:58 hollywood for a while or something like that i'm wondering if right after thief or while he was filming it or 59:58 --> 01:00:05 something he just read this book and was like i think i can do this he adapted into he produced the screenplay 01:00:05 --> 01:00:09 yeah there must be some sort of love of the book i can't imagine he would be willing to screenplay 01:00:09 --> 01:00:15 right and direct a film from a novel that he didn't want to do and like i said it is very early on in 01:00:15 --> 01:00:21 this conversation i said this is very faithful to the book which is bananas and that's michael mann's 01:00:21 --> 01:00:27 choice because he just screenplayed it yeah wow okay so the last part of scott glenn's character of 01:00:27 --> 01:00:33 glakin somebody please let us know i'm very confused why he was where he why not be around the very 01:00:33 --> 01:00:38 thing that you have to protect why the big journey right yeah why yes that's why what you said about 01:00:38 --> 01:00:44 a spirit getting out and taking over someone makes so much more sense i forget what the sequence was but 01:00:44 --> 01:00:50 what triggered it before i think it was just after the killing of the soldiers okay there's an energy of 01:00:50 --> 01:00:56 light cloud that leaves the keep and then we see scott glenn's character glakin perk up out of bed and 01:00:56 --> 01:01:01 he's got the glossy eyes robotic behavior throughout the film yeah it's almost like he's possessed yeah 01:01:01 --> 01:01:10 and then if the demon had then taken control of the woman to distract him with sex that might even make 01:01:10 --> 01:01:15 sense but that's not what's happening would this spirit if it went into the daughter's body would it just 01:01:15 --> 01:01:24 pleasure itself just to see what it yeah i'm trying to give a reason for him not to immediately go to the 01:01:24 --> 01:01:32 keep and take care of the problem or if he needed to experience that in order to get the strength 01:01:32 --> 01:01:40 to go and but none of this is said like none of this yeah he does get gunned down by the nazis and 01:01:40 --> 01:01:47 he has green blood apparently yeah it's not human it's it does really have an alien vibe which yeah you 01:01:47 --> 01:01:52 don't need to do that in this movie did a predator have green blood yes yeah like neon green blood 01:01:52 --> 01:01:59 don't make me think about aliens in the middle of this nazi demon movie this movie is bonkers and i 01:01:59 --> 01:02:03 think it's fair to say have we even spoiled anything like you could just watch you have to watch this 01:02:03 --> 01:02:09 film for as much as i understand that this film is not for everyone i would say that first of all if 01:02:09 --> 01:02:15 you can get through the first half which i think is the best part of this movie it's you only have 40 01:02:15 --> 01:02:20 minutes left it's fine just make it till the end it's a fun watch but i can see why it may have 01:02:20 --> 01:02:26 bombed in the days of writers of the lost ark those type of films that were or even et those type of high 01:02:26 --> 01:02:33 end high quality 80s films i can see why this people went to this is a historical drama is this an alien 01:02:33 --> 01:02:39 film or what's going on here i'm not saying that this is a good thing that this movie did but you don't 01:02:39 --> 01:02:43 have these types of questions with raiders of the lost ark you don't want to have these questions with 01:02:43 --> 01:02:50 et everything is right there it's spelled out it makes sense to anyone who's watching this this thing 01:02:50 --> 01:02:55 is really at times it just feels like like you're watching a meditation app or something i'm fine with 01:02:55 --> 01:03:03 it when they had sex i was like was that sex it looked like okay come on yeah it was like okay i've seen 01:03:03 --> 01:03:11 look i've seen yoga classes that are more sexy or seductive they were basically stretching their arms 01:03:11 --> 01:03:17 out and just she just sat on him there was no thrusting i don't know what it was there's actually 01:03:17 --> 01:03:22 a term for that that plug your ears folks there's a term for that it's called soaking there's a religious 01:03:22 --> 01:03:28 group i won't say which religion where they feel like if you just place your part in the woman's part 01:03:28 --> 01:03:35 and not thrust is actually not sex they may all be living basically in a single state is that i won't 01:03:35 --> 01:03:42 say i won't say i don't want any kind of emails or comments but i will say they they do you will say 01:03:42 --> 01:03:48 it looks like fun that's all you'll say it's not sex if you don't thrust that's not at all so was it a 01:03:48 --> 01:03:51 sex scene if there's no thrusting they were entwined and i think they were connected but there was 01:03:51 --> 01:03:59 nothing going on it was a weird yoga stretching it was great like i've enjoyed it like it oh you like 01:03:59 --> 01:04:06 that yeah it really felt like they were connecting connecting yes it was there was something emotional 01:04:06 --> 01:04:10 about it and i think a lot of it had to do with the music a lot of it had to do with the way that 01:04:10 --> 01:04:16 it's shot and the way that it's not gratuitous it's not gratuitous but it's kind of sexy oh there 01:04:16 --> 01:04:23 you go you heard it here folks yeah if you want to see yoga soaking sex come watch the keep yeah 01:04:23 --> 01:04:29 all right last thing about scott glenn before we close is he still alive i think the only person 01:04:29 --> 01:04:35 who's dead is robert prosky oh and alberta watson and i like doing the deaths i enjoy that i did notice 01:04:35 --> 01:04:39 that when i was listening to the yeah i'm always talking a lot about dead people the thing yeah there 01:04:39 --> 01:04:45 was a lot but the thing for me is i enjoy what are the actors ages especially as i get older i'm always 01:04:45 --> 01:04:50 enjoying what are the actors ages in these older films and are they alive now so yes ian's alive 01:04:50 --> 01:04:55 gabriel's alive robert prosky as we know is dead alberta watson is dead now here we go drumroll scott 01:04:55 --> 01:05:03 glenn's still alive yes he is he was born why is his year hidden what 01:05:03 --> 01:05:14 he's a very vain man his birth year is hidden in what imdb on wikipedia okay i love to think that 01:05:14 --> 01:05:19 he's constantly going on to wikipedia and deleting his birth year after someone else puts it in 01:05:19 --> 01:05:25 yeah it's weird it's not there he's 86 okay all right so he's probably retired from acting himself 01:05:25 --> 01:05:30 so good for him did you notice his neck in the film did it seem thick on do you ever watch star trek 01:05:30 --> 01:05:38 no the old star trek what's that no like i watched the original star trek i found it endearing if anyone's 01:05:38 --> 01:05:43 listening there's that are star trekies in deep space nine there was romulans i believe they were 01:05:43 --> 01:05:50 the rom not yeah not romulans sorry oh it was they have necks their necks come out like they have like 01:05:50 --> 01:05:55 their necks are triangle shaped okay his neck just looks like it was it had extra neck did you notice 01:05:55 --> 01:05:59 his neck is just extra neck that's what the demon looks like are you sure you're not confusing 01:05:59 --> 01:06:07 i might show still right now on youtube if you're watching at the end it looked like he had extra 01:06:07 --> 01:06:12 neck i don't know how to describe it it just looked very thick very big so maybe it's just scott glenn's 01:06:12 --> 01:06:17 neck maybe it's just working on his neck he's hitting the gym and doing all the neck exercises he can't 01:06:17 --> 01:06:23 shoulders neck exercises just to thicken that thing i guess that pretty much concludes our discussion 01:06:23 --> 01:06:27 regarding the keep i don't know if we did it just i don't know if you i don't know if justice could 01:06:27 --> 01:06:31 be given we definitely talked about it i was a little bit nervous tackling this and i'm really glad you 01:06:31 --> 01:06:37 came with like novel knowledge and you've seen the film many times because i was so confused by the film i 01:06:37 --> 01:06:40 was thinking to myself i'm gonna have a hard time talking about it because i don't know what's going on 01:06:40 --> 01:06:50 yeah it's not an easy film to dissect or analyze anything like that and it's a film that i keep 01:06:50 --> 01:06:57 watching because of these questions i keep looking for answers when there are no answers to be found 01:06:57 --> 01:07:04 listen first of all if anybody got this far in the episode without having watched it sorry you probably 01:07:04 --> 01:07:08 had no idea what was going on but i would recommend like you said i would recommend people check this 01:07:08 --> 01:07:13 out it is you still can watch it it's a weird anomaly and especially when you're talking about 01:07:13 --> 01:07:19 michael mann as a director like this is a weird blip in his filmography it is weird that makes no sense 01:07:19 --> 01:07:24 and we should say for the record i believe it was because of this flop that he created miami vice 01:07:24 --> 01:07:31 oh isn't that interesting so this didn't do well at the theater he took a little bit of a break 01:07:31 --> 01:07:38 and he took the aesthetics and feelings of thief and made the tv show miami vice so there you go i hope 01:07:38 --> 01:07:42 it was out of spite like i hope it was literally like him being like i know what you fucking assholes 01:07:42 --> 01:07:50 want here maybe miami vice is still one of the just the coolest shows ever oh no i just the idea of 01:07:50 --> 01:07:55 him being like i know what you shitheads like to eat do you here take more here you go he made 01:07:55 --> 01:08:00 himself a very rich man from doing that exactly so yeah good for michael mann it's interesting how 01:08:00 --> 01:08:04 failures would do that there's so many stories in hollywood where a failure will equal success james 01:08:04 --> 01:08:10 cameron was filming piranha 2 when he came up with the terminator character because he was so mad i 01:08:10 --> 01:08:15 figured what i was i think he was so mad at the production or people he's or something about his life 01:08:15 --> 01:08:20 that he created a killing creature a killing machine that killed everyone so that's how he came up with the 01:08:20 --> 01:08:25 idea that his anger because of piranha 2's production made him create the terminator character and 01:08:25 --> 01:08:33 justified if you've ever seen piranha 2 it's awful it's horrible the greatest james cameron movie ever 01:08:33 --> 01:08:38 made next episode speaking of which the next time you and i get together yeah for this director's chair 01:08:38 --> 01:08:44 network show will be terrence malick's badlands i think our discussion regarding badlands might be a 01:08:44 --> 01:08:49 little bit different wait a minute wait are they're not nazis in badlands no i don't 01:08:49 --> 01:08:55 no i don't think so i don't use any demons i must be thinking of a different movie that the badlands 01:08:55 --> 01:09:03 actually that's a good title for for nazi and vampire nazi infested badlands yeah oh somebody should 01:09:03 --> 01:09:11 remake the keep honestly like i really feel like it's not a bad idea there there are a lot of things you 01:09:11 --> 01:09:15 could take from this and make work and as you said there's a lot of stuff you can remove from here 01:09:15 --> 01:09:23 it's interesting there's seven books you could do a four to five episode season run of the show like 01:09:23 --> 01:09:29 on paramount or something oh book one season one book two season two wow all right okay this is a 01:09:29 --> 01:09:35 great idea yeah i love this good i thought you were gonna try and harry potter this thing which would 01:09:35 --> 01:09:41 be a disaster but no a limited series yeah i love it yeah limited series yeah yeah you could definitely 01:09:41 --> 01:09:46 yeah four to four whatever the book calls for if it's four episodes six stay true to the book it 01:09:46 --> 01:09:51 just give us this what's it called in the series the what's the name oh i don't even know that's funny 01:09:51 --> 01:09:57 i've already forgotten the name it's just it's part of it that's right the ad the adversary cycle yeah 01:09:57 --> 01:10:02 yeah maybe they need to workshop that name it was originally known as the night world cycle 01:10:02 --> 01:10:08 oh okay that's fine that seems like something amazon prime would put up the night world cycle 01:10:08 --> 01:10:17 i'm interested in this i'm gonna find your address somehow and just wait just boxes from ebay will 01:10:17 --> 01:10:22 just show up one book every year will just show up on your doorstep that's awesome i would love that 01:10:22 --> 01:10:28 all right let us know where people can find you oh of course i'm on all of the socials i am on there 01:10:28 --> 01:10:33 as my podcast good times great movies find me anywhere and wherever you're listening to this 01:10:33 --> 01:10:38 subscribe to the show and ryan thank you so much for having me on this was so much fun the pleasure 01:10:38 --> 01:10:44 was truly mine it was an honor to have you come on thank you being so willing and able and ready to 01:10:44 --> 01:10:49 come on the podcast so it's always nice when people take time out of their busy life but i do appreciate 01:10:49 --> 01:10:53 you coming on and i look forward to doing badlands with you it's going to be sooner than you think so 01:10:53 --> 01:10:56 stand by for that invite it'll be great thank you 01:10:56 --> 01:11:26 Thank you. 01:11:26 --> 01:11:41 Thank you.