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015: Heaven Part II · Walk Talk: Faith in Motion

• Randy: All right, and we're back. Pj: Back at it. Let's talk about it. Randy: Let's get into this again. All right. So I know ⁓ we had a lot to say on the last episode about heaven, especially me, because I had a lot to lay down in terms of, you know, the restoration of the kingdom of God, at least from the way that I see it and what I think the Bible hints at. But what we really didn't talk about too much was some of the descriptions of heaven as it's going to be once it's, you know, come to its full, yeah, renewed state here on earth. So Pj: Right. renewed. Right. Randy: I think you had a book that you wanted to get into, maybe talk a little bit about some of those more descriptive details. Pj: Yeah, man. you know, I along with my Bible, sometimes I use this this book that that I had found. It's called the Rose Handbook of Bible charts, maps and timelines. And it's just it's just a great like informational tool, like kind of breaks things down, gives me visuals, which is helps me learn. And anyways, in this book, you know, I looked in here and and I mean, you know, yesterday's conversation or the last episode's conversation was. was there's a lot there. And so I was just kind of looking at this and it brought up some cool things that I was just kind of as I was thumbing through, I was like, man, I didn't even realize that. ⁓ Randy: So this gets into the pearly gates and the yellow brick road and all that kind of stuff. Pj: Well, not not necessarily in that, but it does kind of talk about like, you know, the popular view of heaven, ⁓ you know what I mean, ⁓ which is basically what we get from like movies and stuff like that. And it does cite that here. ⁓ But, you know, it kind of gets basically down to the the biblical view of heaven. ⁓ says heaven is the final destination of believers and is not an Aetherial place like that. final destination of believers is the renewed heavens and earth anticipated in Revelations 21. A very physical concrete future awaits us when Christ comes back. so basically from what I got through kind of thumbing through this is the overlining theme is talking about just how this world is going to be renewed to its intended purpose whenever God created it and whenever he was like, this is good. This is good. So One of the things that struck me as the most interesting is some of the things that this cites according to scriptures that's going to stay the same. ⁓ So it has a, you know, kind of a compare and contrast thing here that says that, you know, our physical bodies will continue. ⁓ Our emotions and relationships will continue. Nature, daily cycles, weather, animals, and also many activities such as work, which is one thing I would not have thought, but, you know, ⁓ Genesis 215, me, is what it cites, learning, cited in 1 Corinthians 13, 12, science, art, and entertainment and things like that. And so I was like, well, that's, you know, kind of threw me off. But the crazy thing is, is, you know, what they reference is kind of how those things are related to worship, right? So, One of the things that, that it kind of does a good job of outlining is that, you know, whenever we, we have this idea of what, worshiping is, we think it's just, you know, ⁓ singing songs all day and stuff like that. ⁓ so it's a matter of fact, goes into this pretty deeply. says, will heaven be boring? And it says definitely not. ⁓ people may get the idea that heaven will be a boring place because we will worship God all day long in heaven. It says it's not true. We will worship. It is true. Excuse me. We will worship God nonstop, but let's revisit what we mean by worship. Worship is not just singing and praying ⁓ as a part of Christian church services. Everything we do can be worshiped from the moment we wake up, take our meals, relate to others, do our homework, play games and live life. Worship is not just an activity. It's primarily an attitude, which I thought was awesome. A good way to phrase that. ⁓ and says, worship is the attitude that arises when we recognize who God is and who we are. yeah, man, I mean, all in all, I would just recommend anybody who can kind of get there, get into this book. I mean, it's just it's got a lot of good things brought up, a lot of good things. One of the last things that I'll talk about that it it focuses on, which I thought was awesome because it does it. It also says in here kind of like we concluded on the last episode that it's like, you know, A lot of the stuff we can't know for sure, right? And it's left up to faith. But, you know, there are things that we can kind of get an idea of through scripture and, you know, a lot of those we cited. But anyways, the last thing that I was going say is that ⁓ what it makes clear is that ⁓ renewed creation is God's work since it comes from above. says it's large enough to fit all of God's people and more. The points of its beauty and splendor are the renewed creation. God dwells in its midst. And it's closest to the circle of paradise in the Garden of Eden in the Holy City, in the new heavens and the new earth. And it contrasts original creation when heaven was created in Genesis 1.1 and when ⁓ heavens and earth are renewed in Revelations 21.1. The sun was created in Genesis 1.16 and there's no need for sun according to Revelation 21.23. The night was established in Genesis 1.5, no night in Genesis 22.5. The seas were created in Genesis 1 10. There's no more seas according to Revelation 21 1. The curse entered the world in Genesis 3 verses 14 through 17. And there's no more courses curses according to Revelation 22 verse 3. Death entered the world Genesis 2 19. Death is no more. Revelation 21 4. Humanity is cast out of paradise. Genesis 3 24. Humanity is restored to paradise. Revelation 22 14. Sorrow and pain begin. Genesis 3, 17, sorrow, tears, and pain in Revelation 21, 4. So that was like one of the main things that stuck with me, man. Just a lot of good stuff in this book. I really enjoy kind of letting it paint these visual pictures and give me a better understanding of some stuff. Randy: Yeah, so, you know, I know we talked about in the last episode how, you know, the idea of heaven as a destination, a final destination didn't even exist till about 500 years before Christ. Sounds like this book, even though it's, you know, sounds like it was written pretty recently, is doubling down on that idea. And more or less, in my opinion, ignoring the fact that Jesus says that the Kingdom of God is here now and is already here with us. I mean, because every Pj: ⁓ no, it talks about that. Randy: Well, I mean, everything that I heard you say is referring to a future. It's, you know, as is referring to a future destination. I mean, even the very first sentence was, you know, the final destination of Christians. ⁓ Okay. ⁓ So I just. Pj: No, it does. It does talk about that. Do I I'm just saying so this is more more or less just the what I was focusing on is the parts that talk just about the renewal, right? Where we started from and what we're going to get back to now. does it does say that, you know, like you're saying that it starts now, right? It's again, more or less referenced in the way it's talking about how what worship really is like we can already start experiencing that through. through our understanding of worship and how we're relating to one another and experiencing those things here and now. Like it does talk about that. So ⁓ I mean it talks about a ton of stuff. I just kind of touched on some of the other things that I saw that I thought was cool as far as the dualities. ⁓ But yeah, so. Randy: Yeah, I mean the things that you mentioned no more sun because we won't need it no more sea No more tears all these different things like those are obviously things that don't apply right now today So it's it's you know, mostly most of what you read was talking about a future and honestly I think that's one of the greatest deceptions of Satan is for you know is getting Christians to focus on heaven as this future destination versus this earthly reality that we're intended to live in now because if we're Pj: Right, right, right. Randy: If we're always focusing on when I die, when I die, this is a return on reward, then we're less focused on how do we live out the kingdom right here and now, you know, with what we have left of our lives. And so I do think that, you know, it, I don't know, I'm not, I'm not trying to be critical of that book or anything. I haven't read it. So I don't really know everything that it talks about, but I do think that that idea that came about in the five hundreds shifted people, you know, away from you know, this thought of how do we live as if the kingdom is here now versus, as an eternal reward. Pj: Well, no. No, I mean, I think it's both, man. think that we I mean, the revelation is pretty clear about what's going to happen in the end. And we'll I'm sure we'll know whenever we get there. So, I mean, that's that's basically all that's that's part of it. Right. So in an agreement with what you're what you're saying, yeah, it's not saying, ⁓ well, this is this is way down the road. This is, you know, this is just part of it. Right. So there's the here and now what we are able to experience having the Holy Spirit in us. Randy: ⁓ yeah. Pj: And there's what is to come, what we're going to see according to what the Bible says that in is going to look like. So, I mean, I think that that that's kind of, you know, I'm not I'm not taken away from that either by by being in agreement with like you said, I think it can be deceiving in a way. But at the same time, I think that there's room for for both of those things, because I mean, the Bible does say, hey, these things are going to happen. So, you know, I believe that they will. Randy: Sure. Pj: But that's not to say that they that some things can't start happening the day you you're reborn. Randy: Yeah, and I know when Jesus talks about the kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven, when we talked about how those two are kind of interchangeable, he talked about it as here and now, we're already there. And when he looked at the thief on the cross, he says, tonight you'll be with me in paradise, right? In paradise, as if that's a whole different place, right? A whole different topic ⁓ versus the kingdom of heaven. Pj: ⁓ that's. Well, and see, that's one of those things, man. I actually love that because I believe that that's one of the best representations that we have of of the idea of context and how changing something as simple as a comma could could completely alter a statement like that. So I know that there's been a bunch of debate because, you know, Jesus tells the guy on the cross exactly that he's like, you know, ⁓ tonight, you know, you'll be with me in heaven. You know what mean? And they're like, well, Jesus didn't go straight to heaven this that the other and and so I mean it's funny be Paradise right right so let's let's actually pull that verse up if you if you don't mind you got it Randy: What version says heaven? Because I remember it saying paradise. No, I don't have it back to look it up. Pj: Yeah, let me, if you don't mind, and then let me know what version you're in. Randy: I'll be reading the New Living Translation. Pj: New Living Translation sounds good. Yeah, so no, and this is one one that I should know it off the top of my head, but man, I'm getting forgetful in my old age. ⁓ Randy: So Luke 23, 43 is what comes up. Let look that up. Pj: Okay, you don't mind, let's read it. Randy: me look it up, loop 2343. Pj: Matthew 27 38 44. Randy: Yeah, I'll look up Luke if you want to look at Matthew. Pj: Yeah, I got got Matthew King James version, let me see. Randy: Alright, so I got Luke pulled up here, ⁓ so I'll start with 42. It just says, he said, Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom. And Jesus replied, I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise. That's New Living Translation. Pj: Go ahead. All right, so say that again, I'm sorry, a little bit slower towards the end. That's what he said about ⁓ being in paradise. Randy: It just says, Jesus replied, assure you today you will be with me in paradise. Pj: Right, perfect. So this is the example that I've used. If you're going off the way that sentence is structured in the context, he's telling them, today you're going to be with me in paradise. But then people have argued the fact that Jesus didn't go directly to heaven. So how is he telling this thief on the cross, today you're going to be with me in paradise. And what I've seen is the translation is if you move that comma to the end of today instead of before today, Randy: Mm-hmm. Pj: Then basically Jesus is saying, this is what I'm telling you today. I'm letting you know today that you will be with me in paradise. He's not saying today you're coming with me to paradise. He said, this is what I would tell you today. You will be with me in paradise. So it changes the whole dynamic of that statement, right? Because a lot of people have argued this. I don't know if you've seen any of this before, but people have argued it because they're like, well, how can that be accurate? Because Jesus didn't go directly to heaven. He went here and there first and did all these things. Randy: Well, he never says it. never says he's going to heaven. He says he's going to paradise. Pj: Right, that's, I'm sure, ⁓ one of the, I don't know if they might all say paradise. Let me see what verse, is where. Randy: I mean, my answer to that would be totally different. My answer to that would be from the thief's perspective, like we talked about yesterday, it is going to be instantaneous that he's going to be with Jesus in paradise or, you know, at the final resurrection. Because like we talked about in the last episode, I really do believe that for the person who dies, they close their eyes in this world, they open their eyes in its resurrection. So from his perspective, from the thief's perspective, it would be, you know, the same day. Pj: And man, I... Randy: I mean, I don't think when you're hanging, dying on a cross is the time to get into like a deep, like, you know, theological discussion on time and space. But I think that, you know, the sentiment is the same. Pj: Yeah, yeah. Well, and I don't remember if it was ⁓ if it was in this book that while I was reading this thing, it's got a lot of information where it basically kind of talked about a waiting place that's not. I guess necessarily heaven where Jesus is present, but ⁓ but yeah, and I don't remember if that was because I also I remember I want to say Pastor Josh Howerton, ⁓ he preached on on. heaven and hell. And I heard it. It was a while back. So I don't remember if it was from him or from this. But yeah, man, it's just like I said again in the last episode, that's I guess why we're doing an episode two. There's just so much there and there's so so many little nuances that that that get thrown in there like this. Like I mean, like I said, this has been one that that I've heard because there is this debate. And it's not like you said. Yeah. For for context, just taking it what it is. It's like I'm like, you know what? the Bible. This if this is God's word, it's the Bible. I believe it. Like I don't need to argue the semantics over like, well, if Jesus said today, you're gonna be with me in heaven. He didn't go that day, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, listen, all I know is I bet you that guy's in heaven. That's all I could tell you because Jesus said he would be you know what mean? But those little those Randy: Well, and then there's there's a whole other conversation though around like, you know, because the, you know, the work of the cross wasn't finished yet, there could have still been this place called Abraham's bosom that the Jews talk about that might have been the equivalent of a paradise where the guy essentially went until he waited for the work to be done. And that could have been like a waiting place for him until, you know, the final until the resurrection, essentially. I mean, that that would make sense as well. Pj: Well, and what would make sense to as well to me since we're talking about it is, you know, once Jesus died, you know, and he was, you know, I believe he was omnipresent again. So he could have been, he could have been there with that guy. He could have been handling business and you know what I mean? So God, yeah. Randy: That's another good point. Yeah, he reverted back to being spirit. And at that point, yeah, he's I mean, that's I never thought about it that way, too. But that's another way it could make sense. I mean, I to me, I think it's such a small thing. I don't really get hung up on it. But I think you're right. Some people do get hung up on it. ⁓ And I think there's multiple ways you could answer it. But we really just ultimately don't really know. Pj: Whoa. Right. so, you know, but it's these little things like that, that get taken and ran with and become these big things like we've talked about and kind of alluded to in previous episodes, which I'm sure we're going to get into, but like the whole Lucifer and the whole thing, know, Hal-El and remember the... Randy: Sure, sure. Yeah. So, so let's, let's get into that because I know, you know, the last time we talked about the kingdom of heaven, you know, I mentioned, you know, my, my thought process on how really the kingdom is a restoration of what was originally there. And I do believe that the angels and not just angels, but possibly other spiritual entities that maybe are not necessarily angels were part of this kingdom. Pj: like daemons? Randy: ⁓ no, not just demons, but I think the Bible, I think there's more than just angels and demons in the spiritual realm. And so I. Pj: Well, and ⁓ I'm interested to hear in that because I mean, that's the common, right? Angels, demons, that's it, you know? Randy: Yeah. Well, I think, well, I think it's one of those things like, like the con like the conversation around Satan, like, you know, we hear of the serpent, we hear of the dragon, we hear of the adversary, we hear of Satan and they all kind of get mushed together as this one being the devil. Whereas maybe, maybe they're not necessarily, I think there's different entities that are mentioned in the Bible that people just assume are all different angels. And I don't necessarily make that assumption myself. And so going back to the description I gave last time of how I view the kingdom originally being set up with, I think it was in Deuteronomy where it talks about the division of the world based on the number of angels in the court or something like that. can't quite remember it now. ⁓ But basically that told me that God was delegating his authority to these spiritual beings to rule the earth on his behalf. Then later on we see in Psalms 82 where he's judging those same beings because they didn't rule justly essentially. And I do believe that some of those beings, we probably know them by name because they're known as demons today. But I don't necessarily think that a demon and unclean spirit is exactly the same thing or that they're essentially a fallen angel. So I did a little bit of research just on biblical beings in general. And here's what I came up with. So the word in Hebrew, it's like mal-ach, something like that, and it means angel or messenger. Then there's another word called cherub, which is basically guardian. It's a guardian being, cherub or cherubim. There's seraph or seraphim, which is like the fiery being. Then there's satan, which literally just means adversary or accuser. And it's used, I found this interesting, but there was actually times when an angel of God was described as as satan as adversary when it was fighting with balam i believe it was or ball or something and it was basically just saying he was the adversary of this false god Pj: Right. And let me just jump in right there because this is something that I do want to come back and touch on. That's one of my things, man. Like people, get these, these little things like that, like Satan meaning adversary thinking that it means as it's a person's name, but it's a title. I, you and I talked about this and I definitely want to come back because I think we need to clarify. Right. These are just right. Randy: Right, right. So these are all titles I'm going through. So the next one is Shadim, which translates to demons or destructive spirits. ⁓ There's Archangelos, which is the chief angel. There's Nephilim, which is fallen or giant ones. There's Elohim, which is applied to God or just to divine beings in general. There's Ruach Tameah. which means unclean or impure spirit. This is something that Jesus himself said. There's B'nai Elohim, which is translated as sons of God. And then there's principalities, powers, and rulers, which is talked about in the New Testament. And then I will throw in ⁓ Watchers, which is not found in the Bible, but is included in the book of Enoch. And I know we talked a little bit about the book of Enoch yesterday, our last episode. ⁓ Pj: Keep saying yesterday too. Randy: And I think that it's worth bringing that one up, even if it's not part of the Bible, because it is actually part of the Ethiopian Bible. They've always included Enoch, even though the Roman Catholic Council of Nicaea excluded it. ⁓ I don't know if it was ever included in the Orthodox Bible, but I think it was something they really wrestled over, but it was kept in the... ⁓ ⁓ Ethiopian Bible. So those are the different beings and yes I included Watchers which is technically not in the Bible but I count 10 different types of beings themselves and again these are not these are not necessarily names these are just like ⁓ types like Satan right Satan is not a name it's a it is a descriptor or some sort of type of being right and it's and I will say that Pj: Right, right, right. Randy: because of something like Satan being here, it's possible that there is overlap in some of these because yes, an angel could be described as a Satan if they are an adversary of something else that's being described. you know, like an angel could be described as Elohim because Elohim sometimes is used explicitly for God and sometimes it's used to mean divine beings. And so Elohim Pj: That one really throws me off because I've always only known Elohim as one of God's names. Randy: Well, and I kind of interpret Elohim as spirit because it's usually talking about a spiritual being. And so, you know, we have a spirit inside of us. God is a spirit. Angels are spirits. But God is the King of Kings, Lord of Lords, God of Gods, the great spirit of spirits. Right. And so it's like to me, I don't get hung up so much on the word Elohim itself because ⁓ I do see it in different contexts and I don't have the verses in front of me right now, but it does. It is used in other contexts like in Psalms 82. Pj: Right. Right. Randy: where it says that there's this council of Elohim and God is judging the Elohim and that's where Jesus tells the Pharisees, you're saying I'm blaspheming, but doesn't the law say you are God's and it's using that word in Psalm 82, Elohim, you are Elohim. But it's not saying that you are equivalent with God, it's saying that you are spiritual, divine beings, is what it's saying. So those are the different types of beings. Pj: That's interesting. Randy: that I came up with. And so I started looking for more specifics and here's where I kind of got stuck a little bit because in terms of some specifics, just said, hey, let's just see what angelic names, actual specific names of angels can we find? Yeah, so in the Bible, I only see two names, Michael and Gabriel. But if you look in the Roman Catholic Bible, the book of Tobit has Raphael, which is a deuterocanonical book. Pj: Yep, I'm glad you brought that up. Randy: ⁓ It includes Raphael if you if you include the book of Enoch you get a few more names you get Uriel Raguel Sariel Remiel and Fenuel Those are different names of angels that are included in the book of Enoch And I will just say that even though the book of Enoch is not included ⁓ in the canon Jude does refer to it and quoted verbatim the book of Jude and Jude actually says it is a prophetic book so Pj: the cannon. Randy: I don't know why it was not included. I'm not a scholar to be able to say why, but the fact that Jude is in the Bible and we're saying that Jude is inspired, is inspired by the of God and in that inspired Word of God it says that Enoch was a prophet and that this he quotes this book verbatim. It tells me we should at least you know consider it. Pj: Well, yeah, I mean, I 100 % believe that Enoch was a prophet. I do I think that, like I said, the book of Enoch wasn't written by him. So that's that's where it comes from. For me, it's Randy: Sure, And there are books, there's a book attributed to Paul that he blatantly says it was actually written by someone else because his eyesight was poor. There are ⁓ proverbs that weren't written by Solomon. There are Psalms that weren't written by David. Like we know that there are things that are, know, sometimes, you know, the story of someone who's written by someone else. Pj: Right. Right, right, right. Absolutely. my only thing is that, you know, it's a collection of people that wrote this one, the Book of Enoch, right? So it's like six different people. yeah. Yeah. It's either. Randy: I don't know about that. I don't know if that's the case or not for first Enoch. I know there's like three books of Enoch, so I'm not sure. Pj: So I want to say it's like five or six authors. And so anyways, it is, it is neither here nor there, but I'm glad you did bring that up because so at one point in time there was this crazy thing going around and, I'd heard it I'm like, what? So started doing this deep dive into it. And, ⁓ you know, whenever you, start looking at these names of these, these biblical figures, we definitely all know Michael, we know Gabriel. Well, what I found out was this having L at the, at the end of this name was like a, Randy: Right, right. Pj: like a distinction like from like God, like it's saying like, Hey, this is L that this is why you got Mike L right, right. Gabriel, blah, blah. And like the other, the other names that you mentioned, even in the book of Enoch follow that same suit. Well, then here comes Halal, right. And they're like, Lucifer's actual name is Halal, which fits in line with this. ⁓ well, if he's an angel, we all know that he was, you know, one of God's angels. He was in charge of music and stuff like that. I'm like, ⁓ okay. Randy: Right. It's that connection to God. Right. Pj: So this dude went on this whole tangent of like, know, hell, look on your food. It all says, hell, look on these labels. Hell, hell, hell, hell, blah, blah, blah, There's all these things. And then he, he, Randy: Is that why Superman's real name is Kal-El? Is it like a different, is it a version of Hal-El? It sounds very similar. Pj: I'm serious that so that is that. Well, no, I'm serious. So that that did get brought into that, like as a as just the way they throw these things into our entertainment, right. And and and and and the little the little nuances, right, of of Superman, you know, like anyways, I don't even want to get down that rabbit hole. Let me let me finish this one first. But so anyway, so this guy is is is, you know, throwing all these things out at you fast and and something. Randy: Interesting, interesting. But he's making a claim that how L is Satan's actual name. Pj: No, he was saying Halal is Lucifer's actual name. Lucifer. So he so I'm gonna show you why this is crazy because then he goes on to make this this correlation. So he shows you how like, look, this lines up with all these other biblical angels. We know that that he even called Satan one, the third archangel or whatever. Anyways, neither here nor there. So anyways, hello. He's like, the funny thing is, is hello means morning star in Hebrew. Randy: Okay, okay. Mm-hmm. Right. Pj: Right. So he's not wrong there. But what he says is he says, you know, who else is called the morning star? Jesus. He said, so boom, Jesus and Satan are the same person. You're all being deceived. And I was like, what the heck is going on? This is wild. This is wild. So, and like people were like, people were like, see, I knew it. Like it was just, it was blowing my mind. So I'm like, okay, I need to get in my Bible and start looking. So, ⁓ what that led me to was like looking at a Randy: ⁓ yeah, that is wild. Pj: Right? ⁓ How many times is Lucifer mentioned in the Bible? One time. One time in Isaiah 1412. And from that, what I've what I found was that ⁓ this whole thing started basically from an interpretation, a Latin interpretation of a Hebrew interpretation or excuse me, a Greek interpretation, I believe. So. ⁓ in this verse, actually in this Bible that I have, ⁓ it's actually titled The Fall of Lucifer, right? And so ⁓ the crazy thing is, in this Bible commentary that we've cited before, ⁓ referring to ⁓ Isaiah 14, ⁓ 12 through 17, it says, traditional interpretations have read, ⁓ excuse me, excuse me. I apologize. Traditional interpretations have read verses 12 through 15 as a reference to the fall of Satan as depicted by the fall of the king of Babylon. However, the name Lucifer is not used elsewhere in the Bible for Satan and is actually a Latin designation for the Morning Star. The Hebrew, halel, means the bright one. As the Morning Star speedily disappears at dawn before the rising, so the king of Babylon would quickly fall from power. So even in this even in this commentary, it's saying that that where it's saying Lucifer, that that's even wrong because what it was actually referencing in this verse was the actual King of Babylon. And so what I found out was Lucifer is a result of a mistranslation by early Christian scholars. It came from an English translation of a Latin translation of Hebrew. In Hebrew, the word halel means bright or shining one. This is where we get the idea that not only ⁓ is it actually seems to be the devil is halel, Randy: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Pj: but also it makes him synonymous with Morningstar, which also uses his reference to Jesus. The complete phrase in Hebrew is, helel bim shakor, or shak, I don't know, shak, shak, shak, ⁓ shakor, which means morningstar, sun up in the morning. I'm about to, I'm about to Rosetta Stone Hebrew. I mean, we're have to. ⁓ But yeah, man, so, so. Randy: We're eventually gonna have to learn, we're gonna eventually have to just learn Hebrew, I guess. Yeah. All right. So that aligns very closely with what my research was telling me too, but ⁓ I wanna go back to some of the names, because I read the names of the angels, and I have some of the names of the demons, and Hal-El does not show up as one of them, because like you said, it means, you know, morning star. It's not a name. What I thought was interesting was I... Pj: Mm-hmm. Right. Right. Randy: came up with 10 different names of demons, which you know, remember we only said there was three names of angels that shows up in the Bible, but I came up with 10 different names of demons and I... What's Pj: Give me one second. Let me just, before we move to that point, I just want to clarify that, that Lucifer and Morningstar do not line up. Jesus is the only one actually referred to as the Morningstar in the Bible. Randy: Okay, go ahead. What do you mean Lucifer and Morningstar don't line up? Pj: So, so Lucifer ⁓ is a mistranslation of English from Latin that was translated from Hebrew. So Lucifer being put into there is wrong. that, that, that, that the Hebrew Bible actually in that verse is talking, it says, ⁓ morning star son of the morning using it, we use it, word hello in Hebrew, right? Randy: So the research that I found said something a little different. It said that Lucifer was never a name. It was never a name. It's the English version of a Latin word that basically is the translation of hell. So they translated hell into Latin and it was something similar to Lucifer. And then Lucifer is the English translation, but it was never a name. It was basically just a description. Pj: Okay. Right, right. Well, well, basically what I get is in the Hebrew version of the Bible, Isaiah 1424, it says, Morning Star, son of the morning, right? And then that got translated into Latin. And then from from that. And so from what I'm saying, so originally Hebrew, it said Morning Star, son of the morning, and that got translated into Latin, Latin translated into English, and they took that and just said Lucifer. And so everybody made Randy: Yeah, yeah. So we'll come back to Isaiah because I got a lot to say about Isaiah. Right. Pj: Lucifer synonymous with the devil and the morning star, but that doesn't check Randy: Well, not everybody. was, there was one person in particular who popularized it. I'll get to that in a second. No, no. So, so, okay. So, so remember what I said earlier about how, you know, in the first episode about heaven, how I said, I thought, you know, God delegated his power. And I didn't mention this before, but I, I believed in my mind that when it said he divided up the earth in the peoples into different regions, I, in my mind, I thought 10. Pj: me. ⁓ I thought you meant who didn't buy into that. Okay, nevermind. Go ahead. Randy: I thought 10 and I don't know why I think that has something to do with what I read in Revelations or maybe it wasn't even Revelations. Maybe it was from the Left Behind series where I think ⁓ there's essentially 10 regions that the world gets broken up into. Interesting though, I thought it was interesting that I came up with 10 names of demons. So there's Baal, there's Maulik, Ashereth. ⁓ there's actually, so let me just, as I'm going through, Baal was the Canaanite storm god. Maulik is associated with child sacrifice. Ashereth is linked to fertility, Dagon which was the Philistine grain deity, Astarte, something like that, Astarte, goddess of fertility and war, Belial, symbol of wickedness. ⁓ Then there was Beelzebub which translates to Lord of the Flies which the note that I got says that is the one that's most linked to the devil or Satan so if he had a name that might be it. ⁓ Shamash which means God of Moab. Pj: Astra, Randy: Tammuz, which is the Mesopotamian fertility deity and then Abaddon in Hebrew or Polyon in Greek, which is the one that shows up in Revelations. So those are 10 names of like actual demonic entities that show up in the Bible, which I thought, you know, first of all, again, I thought it's interesting that there were 10. I thought it was interesting that there was more names of demons that show up than there were of angels in the Bible. And the Bible treats these not as like idols of stone or wood. It treats them as, no kidding, entities, spiritual entities, whether they were demons, whether they were principalities, powers, whatever they were, it treats them as real spiritual entities. Pj: Yes. And that's that's wild. ⁓ you know, ⁓ crazy thing is, is ⁓ of you know, my first time reading reading through the Bible, I was like, ⁓ devil like, okay, and whenever, ⁓ ⁓ clarity, whenever I reference the devil, like I'm talking about the specific, ⁓ know, the one, the one, but ⁓ not what that means either. But and we'll get into that. but like, ⁓ just remember like, I was like, before I the Bible, like I had all this knowledge of like the devil and what happened to him and where he came from and this that the other I knew all his names and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I'm like, Bible doesn't really mention none of this. And so I'm like, where'd all this information that I have of the devil come from? Because I was I kept waiting to get to that part of the Bible where it was going to explain and rightfully so. Thankfully, it didn't because it's like, no, the Bible is about Jesus. The Bible, the Bible is about Jesus, not about the devil. You know, he may be a cliff note because, know, of Randy: Right, right. Pj: of the roles that he played. anyways, it was just like, and I guess, again, it's one of those things where it's like, I think for us growing up in the 90s, in late 80s, early 90s, like, man, there was a ⁓ buzz in the culture, you know, obviously, this was before all the internet and all the different things. like, people had a general like knowledge of heaven and hell and the devil and God that were very very loosely translated but like everybody knew the same thing because it was all word of mouth there was no fact checking so if you said hey this is this then it's like ⁓ i guess that's what it is and you're just taking a run with it and tell everybody you know you know Randy: Right. Sure, sure. Right, right. Yeah. So one thing I do want to note is, know, all those different names, they could all be referred to as Satan because Satan just basically means adversary. And from what I read, even though adversary has been used in some cases, you know, like for angels, no kidding angels, not fallen angels, not demons, but for angels, it's been used to describe them against. Yeah, you're against, but, mostly it's used in the context of enemies. Pj: just anybody who's adversely on the other side. Randy: of the faith of Christians, of believers, of God's people, right? So if you think about it, any one of those demons, if they are demons, I don't know what kind of spiritual beings they are. they're classified as one of those other titles that we mentioned earlier, but I think they could easily all fit the bill of Satan, right? Because they're all adversaries of us as believers. They're all ⁓ evil, right? They're all evil and contrary to God. Pj: Right. Well. 100 % man. so the crazy thing is, ⁓ like, so again, Satan is a title, not a name, devil title, not a name. And you know, all these other things. Well, the thing that popped into my mind, right, was I was like, okay, well, what about like, what about in, in Luke 10, 18, whenever Jesus said, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven? Is he, because remember, it was the devil or whoever we're going to call him. ⁓ would just, I would just, this is my, my pain. do not think that we know the original enemy's name. I don't think, I don't think, and I, and I, Randy: It's very possible that we don't. mean, the research that I did said that the one name Bielzabub was the one that was most linked, but that doesn't necessarily mean that's not a separate entity. Pj: Well, and I'll get to that in a second because I found some information on that also. in my mind, I mean, I think about it because Jesus said, I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. So basically what he said is I saw and mind you, the original devil, whoever, and a third of the angels fell. Right. So he might have been saying, like, I saw basically I saw all the adversaries of heaven fall. All of them. Randy: adversaries. Yeah, I've the adversaries fall. Yep. Pj: I said all the, you know what mean? So it changes the context whenever you understand these things. Not that it's just like, it really changes a whole lot of the Bible, but it just gives you this different perspective and just this different way of kind of like finding these little nuggets in there. And I know that we'll never know all the things, but I wanna know as best as I can. I feel like God has given me the ability to think and to dive in and. Randy: ⁓ yeah. Right. Pj: and dig deep and seek him. I enjoy doing that. Yeah. Randy: Well, it's interesting stuff because I mean, like I know throughout my entire life, I've basically been taught that there's angels and there's fallen angels called demons. And then, and then we kind of just assume that some of these other things like cherubim and seraphim are just different types of angels. And it's like, that's a big assumption that doesn't necessarily, when the word angel actually means messenger, it's like, okay, well, how do we notice that at its own class of spiritual being that sin that delivers messages and they're Pj: Right, right. Randy: you know, cherubim, which are guardians and seraphims, which we see are on fire and in, and then I don't even have in this list, but there's also the, ⁓ the other ones that had multiple faces. They're like depicted in, in revelations as having multiple different faces. I forgot what they're called. They're called some sort of creature. Like what are those? Pj: ⁓ the ones with all the eyes and the wings and stuff like that, they make shirts of it, you know, like these descriptions. Randy: There's, yeah, there's different things that are not even on this list, but it's like, what are those things? And are we gonna just call everything an angel? Like, I wouldn't do that. Just like I wouldn't call everything a demon. I would say that like Nephilim, for example, when I read that, you know, the Nephilim are the product of the Bani Elohim, the sons of God and humans, I say that sounds different, like a different entity, you know, than a demon. That sounds more like a Goliath. to me than to a demon. ⁓ You know what saying? it's like, and what I say that that's all physical being or all spiritual being or maybe some sort of hybrid. Yeah, sure. It's probably something in between, but I think it's worth, you know, categorizing it as something different than angel, demon and human. Pj: Absolutely. And look, while we're on this subject of calling people the wrong things, this may just be a little cliffhanger for another episode, but I'm in the middle of looking into basically ⁓ the Jesus, not, you know, basically being kind of like a mistranslation name that we made up and that we should be saying Yeshua. yeah, right. So the reason why I'm looking into that is because Randy: Yeshua. Pj: we all know as believers that there's power in the name of Jesus or Yeshua. And how clever would it be is if the power is in the name Yeshua, which is the actual and somewhere along the line, the devil whispered into somebody's ear and like to start calling them Jesus that way. Whenever they say that name, there's not that power there that I'm afraid of because the power is actually in the name Yeshua and not Jesus. don't know. I'm listen, I'm looking into it. It's just something that I heard from a Hebrew guy and I thought it was pretty interesting. Randy: Yeah. Yeah. I that's another example very similar to Lucifer where it's like it's a Jewish translation that was translated into you know Greek or Latin and then it got you know translated into English so each time it kind of changed a little bit as it was you know but it means the same thing it's just a different language. Pj: ⁓ yeah. 100%. And well, and well, the thing is, though, this this Jewish guy, it's a Jewish guy that was kind of breaking it down. And he was very he was showing like how intentional and he was even talking about like we've referenced before why Hebrew is is referred to as the language of God, like how like these intentional like numbers and these words and stuff like that are. And anyway, it's just interesting. I'm still looking into it. Randy: Yeah. Pj: But I mean, like I said, it's it is one of those things. And the only reason why this one I was very much like, I don't care if his name is Lucifer, Satan or the devil. Like, as long as we know who we're talking about and we rebuke him, I'm good there. But. It is it is it is. Randy: But I think it's worth pointing out though, that there are, know, like for Satan, know, that Lucifer is not his name. I think that's worth people knowing because I think most people don't know that. Pj: Yeah, for Right, 100%. Right, right. For clarity sake. Yes, absolutely. I agree. But what I'm saying is for for our everyday walk, and knowing, like I said, that there's power in the name of our Savior, making sure that we call in on that power and not just, you know, it's like there's no power in the name Randy or PJ. So you know what mean? If they were like, Hey, just call him, just call Jesus or call him Hank. You know what I mean? And that's what gets Randy: Yeah. Pj: trickle down and you start calling the power of Hank and there's no power there. It's like no, there's power in the name Yeshua and that name, you know, demons tremble and they flee like so I don't know. It's just one of those things why I take that a little bit more seriously, I guess. Randy: Yeah, right. So I do want to go back to, you know, why people believe Jesus, I'm sorry, Satan's real name is Lucifer. I do want to go back to that because from the research that I found, it was actually St. Jerome who put together the Septuagint, which was basically what became the Catholic Bible. So the Septuagint started off as the Greek translation of the Jewish scriptures. And then from there, the New Testament was added to it, all the writings of the apostles, et cetera. And that became basically the Catholic Bible. And so when that was being translated or whatever, and people could correct me if I'm off here at all, ⁓ when St. Jerome was doing this translation, he actually saw the term, what was it? Hellel? ⁓ Pj: Hello? Randy: And then the translation into, know, whatever the Latin word was for Lucifer, it was not exactly Lucifer. He saw it as more of an imagery of Jesus than of Satan. Because, you know, Jesus is, you know, is the light that comes within you and, you know, enlightens your being and things like that. But it wasn't until later on where Pope Gregory saw that passage. in Isaiah and said there's no way this passage in Isaiah is referring to just some king. This has to be referring to this fallen being, this Satan. And he's the one who actually popularized the idea that, you know, first of all, that you know, passage is not just talking about a human person. It's actually talking about an angelic being named Satan who fell. when he saw that translation of Halal into Latin, he's the one who popularized the idea that that was his actual angelic name, that Satan's actual angelic name was Lucifer. So before Pope Gregory, there was no real connection to Lucifer being the name of Satan. It wasn't until after Pope Gregory popularized this idea through his translation of that Isaiah passage that we started seeing Satan and Lucifer as synonymous. So I think that's really worth knowing for people because you hear all this different stuff about Lucifer, Luciferian religions and people who worship Lucifer and things like that. And it's really, like, well, it means like enlightened one or, and even the way it's used in most cases, the actual translation of that Greek word, Pj: Yeah. Yeah. Randy: you know, before it was it was translated as Lucifer. And again, I don't have the exact word. It's very similar. It was a word they use for Venus, the planet Venus. It was the same word they were using for the planet Venus because Venus is the morning star that comes up before the sun. And so when the Bible talks about morning star, how you have fallen, blah, blah. And Isaiah, they're like, OK, well, we already have a word for morning star. It's the word we use for Venus. They just use the same word that was very close to Lucifer. So I think it's just worth people knowing that the original history of that word, Lucifer, is referring to a planet, first of all, Venus, and then second of all, it was only connected to this being, this satanic being, by a pope who lived much, later. Pj: Yep. And it was made popular in the New King, or excuse me, in the King James version of the Bible. And just again. Randy: Well, in the King James version of the Bible, there's actually a footnote. ⁓ I don't have a King James actual physical version, but there's actually a footnote in the King James version that describes this, that basically clarifies that, yeah, hey, this is translated as Lucifer, but it actually is referring to Venus. Pj: Well, and just again, while we're on this wave of clarity, you because you're mentioning the Catholic Church, ⁓ for those of you that don't know, while we're clarifying, just Catholic, the word Catholic means universal or all embracing. ⁓ So just just just think about that for for sake of context, you know, whenever you're thinking about ⁓ the the what was it? What's the first name of it? ⁓ yeah. Roman Catholic. So basically Roman universalism. ⁓ so one of those things, man, you, you, whenever you started looking into Constantine and where a lot of the concepts and of, of why you, why you end up with all these saints and these different things that very much mimic other religions that we've seen, it just gives me cause for pause and prayer for, for, ⁓ some of my, Catholic friends. ⁓ Randy: Okay. Well, I think that's good to note because there are other faith traditions that are just as old, if not older, than the Catholic Church. Because we know that Constantine made Christianity, the Church of Rome, in like the 300s. So 300 years of the Gospel being spread to Ethiopia, for example, and all over ⁓ Eastern, like the Middle East and Western Asia. you know, all that region. And so you have, you know, like the Orthodox Church and the Ethiopian churches, which, you know, probably claim to be just as old or if not older than the Roman Catholic Church. And so you have to just kind of like, you know, understand that, you know, from the very beginning, when you really look at, know, even when Jesus was here on earth, not the apostles didn't always understand what he was saying. They didn't understand, first of all, that he was actually going to die. They refused to believe it. Then after the resurrection, after the ascension, you had apostles disagreeing with each other, notably like James and, you know, disagreeing, I'm sorry, with Peter and Paul, right? So it's like, you know, sometimes they disagree with each other. So can you just imagine as they spread out and spread the gospel, you see in a lot of Paul's writings, he's addressing some, you know, false prophets, false teachers, people who are teaching contrary. And at the end of the day, he's like, as long as the gospel is being preached, you know, let the gospel be preached. So I say all that just to say that like, look, Pj: Peter and Paul. Randy: There's a lot of unknowns out there and there's a lot of traditions out there. And sometimes traditions are really, they're based on specific teachings of certain denominations or certain types of churches and they're not always biblical. And sometimes they're extra biblical, like they're pulling in things like the book of Enoch, or maybe there are certain assumptions that are just kind of underlying that are known in the culture. For example, Pj: 100%. Randy: In the last episode we talked a lot about the Kingdom of God. Do you know that there's never a time where Jesus actually describes what the Kingdom of God or the Kingdom of Heaven is? And there's never time when anyone asks Jesus, Jesus you keep talking about this. Jesus talked about the Kingdom of Heaven more than he talked about hell, more than he talked about faith, more than he talked about salvation. And yet no one ever asked him what is this thing that you're talking about? Because there was an assumption, there was something that was already known. People already knew about this. And so like we're sitting here having our conversation around what we think the kingdom of heaven is like, and in Jesus's they didn't even ask the question because they already had an understanding and understanding that I think we don't quite have today. And so there's all these different things that are like, you know, swaying what we're being taught and then how we're interpreting, you know, some of these passages or even what passages exist in our Bible for that matter. Pj: Probably not. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, there's just there's a lot of debate across the board on so many different things, man. And, know, for the most part, I mean, like I said before, I always just fall back to the word. mean, that's if nothing else, you know what mean? And and and I do my best even there because, you know, again, like we've mentioned before, just because I'm sharing my thoughts and my pains with you doesn't mean that I'm 100 % convinced and I'm right. And that's why we encourage the comments because if y'all have more knowledge on something that we're talking about, and y'all can share your heart and your knowledge with us. We're all about that we're not on here claiming to have it all figured out. But but according to me falling back to my Bible reading it and having this understanding that I've prayed about and interpreted, you know, or, what I've gotten from it, that's where I'm sitting at. And I'm always hoping to hear other people's points and maybe shed some light on some understanding like these things that I haven't found. But I know for myself that, you know, whenever I do run across these situations, and I know my brothers the same way, whenever we run across these situations, we have no problem deep diving into it because I mean, this is what we are passionate about our relationship, our walk, you know, and ultimately knowing and for the same I guess I could say the opposite reason of people like the Pope that you referenced, because I don't want to be the cause of spreading misinformation that just continues on for however long that may lead people down the wrong path. You know what mean? And I'm always trying to be cautious of that because that's definitely not my intent. Randy: Yeah. Well, yeah, and like we say every episode, you know, we're not pastors. We're not priests. We're just regular guys. So, you know, I gave I gave the different types of beings that I was able to find. There was I think 12 of them in total. If I include Enoch, if you guys, if I missed anything, if anybody out there says, hey, I think that, you know, two of these are the same or one of them's missing. Let us know if there's other angelic names besides the three that I mentioned that I, you know, that I missed. Let us know. You know, we're not scholars on this stuff. So there it's very possible that we're missing something Let us know what we're missing same thing with the demonic names as well. Let us know if there's another one that I missed Pj: Whoa. And that's, that's very interesting to me because I didn't, I didn't know that at all myself. I mean, so I'm sitting here learning with everybody else listening to that. And maybe some people knew maybe, but that is ⁓ a wild thing, right? That, I mean, there's, there's more demons than, than angels. And I think maybe it's because, you know, they, they, maybe demons do play a more prevalent part and, and Randy: mentioned. Pj: in our in our past and in our present. You know what mean? They're they're working all the time, you know, to try to get us to stray and fall away. What's that? Randy: Whoa. Well, and maybe it's because they were all good beings at one point. I don't want to just say they were angels because angels are messengers. But if you think about it, like I described last time, my view of the org chart where you got like God as the CEO and maybe Jesus is the executive assistant who basically acts on behalf of the CEO. then maybe these 10 demons or evil spirits, whatever they were, were once good and noble and ruling the earth with God's authority. And you didn't need a bunch of angels because the angels were just messengers just going between them all who were basically like carriers, letter carriers, right? They were delivering messages between them all. So maybe it makes more sense that, you know, there were more of these beings who turned into demons than angels. I don't know man, mean, it could very well be that that's the case or it could very well be that there's millions and millions and millions of angels and demons and they just don't list them all. I mean, it could be either way. Pj: Well, let me- Yeah, so I'm looking this up. What's the what's the meaning of an archangel then? Because we know that angel does mean messenger, but like Michael is the archangel, you know, so it says Archangel is a chief or a high ranking angel often entrusted with special authority or missions in religious traditions. So I'm just saying like I guess because I'm arc like if you're an archangel, so it's like you're a higher messenger. But like, no, this is like a Randy: Chief, Chief Angel. Yeah. Pj: That's cheap. Randy: I mean, again, it's like, if there's not a lot of description for some of these things, we see more, I think we get as much description from what we see them doing as, you know, we get in like an actual like, you know, definition, you know, in the Bible, I think we probably get more, you know, based on what we see them doing, honestly. Pj: Yeah. Randy: I mean, and even like heavenly hosts, like people assume that when Jesus says like, you know, he could call 10,000 heavenly hosts to come to his side and his aid if he wanted to, people are assuming that he's talking about an angel. Maybe not, maybe heavenly host is like those warriors that are up there just waiting for him to call them to come and do battle and they could be totally different. I think our minds are gonna be blown on the other side of the resurrection and on the other side of eternity when we actually see with our eyes Pj: Yeah. Randy: what these different beings look like, I think we're gonna be blown away because I think a lot of our assumptions are gonna just melt. Pj: Yeah. Yeah, man, I look forward to it because I really I do want to know all things I really do. ⁓ And, ⁓ you know, ⁓ you and I have discussed ⁓ before, like the idea, you know, of of kind of doing like a just an episode where we clarify like some some of these things that get thrown around in the Bible very loosely and, you know, often that that Randy: some of the churchy words things like that yeah Pj: Right. That people just kind of take and just like it would like this roll off like, oh, yeah, yeah. Like, you know what mean? And there is a lot of that stuff where it's just like it's just the lingo of the, you know, of the church or whatever. And so I think, you know, a lot of people just they hear everybody else just kind of accept it. So sometimes they're afraid to say, well, what does that actually mean? So they just kind of get a loose like idea in their head and never really fully understand. So we had talked about that before. But, yeah, there is there's so much there, you know, that I mean, I would say Randy: Right, right. Right, right. Pj: you know, you could you can be a scholar, you could be a theologian, you can be a pastor, any of those things. And and still, I think you would have to say there's far more that we don't know than than we do even at those levels, you know what mean? About what's really what you know? Randy: Yeah, there's still a lot we don't know. Where's a lot? There's a lot we know and there's probably, you know, exponentially more that we don't know. Yeah. So one thing we did say, we don't believe that Lucifer is actually the name of Satan, right? That there's actually a being, ⁓ but we don't necessarily know his name, right? We don't actually know his name. We do know the name of God though, right? We know that the tetrahedra gram, you know, is pronounced Pj: ⁓ 100%. I would have to say that's the case. Randy: something like Yahweh or it's you know the English version of it is Jehovah. ⁓ One interesting thing I heard about that recently it's been going around probably you you probably heard this as well but I actually heard that the actual pronunciation is more like breathing like it's like exhale and inhale like Yahweh and I thought that's super cool because it does sound very similar to that and if that's the case we're essentially saying God's name with every breath that we take it's the first word we say when we Pj: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. yeah. Randy: you know, are born and it's the last thing we say before we die, which I think is really cool. I also saw that that that the spelled out name could actually be broken into three different words that it's not just I am that I am, but it also translates as, know, always was always is always will be, which I thought was super cool. Just kind of referencing how like God's very name not only references the breath of life, but also references the fact that he's, you know, eternal, always existing. Pj: Yeah. Well, and see, 100 percent. And those kind of things are exactly what I was telling you. So I'm looking into because this Hebrew guy, whenever he's talking about the name of Jesus or Yah or Yeshua, like he shows like how like intricately like that God, like the language even in and of itself, like how these these there's not only symbols that represent other things like those things like, you know, forever was forever will be. But there's these numbers that have meaning also in these things. And so the way it's done is just Randy: Yeah. Right. Because all because all the Hebrew Hebrew characters had numerical values as well. Yeah. Pj: It's almost like it's almost Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. So and like the way it's done, it's like, again, it just shows the divinity of God. Like there's no other way. Like how does these things line up? And it's just it's just cool to see. So I'm still looking into it just for like I said, for the honestly, I'm 100 percent honest. What came to my mind first was I was like, man, if I'm praying for somebody, like if somebody I love is sick and I'm like, you know, I know that there's power in the name of Jesus. And I'm like, you know, please, know what? Jesus strives. And and and it's like, whoa. Randy: Yeah, yeah. Pj: Maybe it would have what if the difference between the power being there and that prayer is the right pronunciation or not. I don't know. It's just one of those things that stuck with me. I was like, I kind of. Well, no, I'm just saying I just just the name of, know, I just want to be calling him the right name either way. It's like imagine this. You and I are both married. Go call your wife the wrong name and see how she responds to that. It's like, ⁓ my bad. You know what I mean? But I don't know. I just I. Randy: ⁓ man, I wouldn't go there personally. That's the, would not go there, but. Pj: Ultimately, all jokes aside, mean, I really, I just, I want to know. I want to make sure that I'm, Randy: Want to know too. So if anybody does know if ⁓ Satan has an actual name, let us know Let us know that because I want to know that one, too Pj: No, no, no, not not. yeah. Yeah, yeah. ⁓ yeah, absolutely. If y'all got that information, share that with the class. Randy: But we already know the right pronunciation of Jesus is Yeshua. I mean, that's how they would have said it, you know, when he was alive, right? So we know that. Pj: Right, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so, I mean, listen, I'm going to tell you, I have started saying that in place of Jesus, but I just wanted to know, like, like, I don't know, just, you know, Randy: Yeah. You mean you stopped praying to a five pound, six ounce newborn baby Jesus and started praying to a Yeshua, Yeshua of Nazareth. Yeah. So the other thing I will say, and we're going to have to get into this in another episode is, know, there are all these spiritual beings that I don't personally necessarily believe are just as clean as angel and demon. And I also would say that I think a lot of what people see as aliens and UFOs and things flying around are Pj: Yes, sure. Yes, sure. Yeah, that's right. Randy: are in that same category of ⁓ either demons or one of these spiritual beings mentioned in the Bible. But we'll have to get into that in another episode. Pj: Whoa, hold up. Who, Wasn't it just the VP that just said something about angels or demons, aliens or demons? He recently did. Randy: He, he, he recently did say something about that, but there's been people saying they were demons for years. And I've tended, I've always tended to believe that that was the case until I started to look at the different types of spiritual beings that are listed. And I'm saying to myself, either they're demons or they're one of these other categories listed in the Bible. But I definitely don't think they're from outer space. I think they've been here. The Bible has been talking about them and that's a whole nother whole nother podcast. Pj: Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna say, man, I thought we were going down a rabbit hole. felt like we're like in Wonderland like Alice right now, because this is this is just like a scratch at the surface on on goodness. Wow. Wow. Randy: ⁓ yeah, yeah. Yeah, but we could talk about that on a whole nother day. Just getting into like, what are those things flying around that people are seeing every day and do they fit the description more of a cherubim or a seraphim or an archangel or, or, or a Shadim or what are they? Pj: Aye. All I can tell y'all is stay tuned because I think we're about done on this one, but we'll stay posted. We will be getting into these things. Randy: Yep, you have to watch the next one to get to see what we get into. So, but, but I think that does it for this episode of walk, talk brother. So, Hey, thank you all so much for listening. If you haven't already, please follow the show. And before you go, leave your thoughts in the comments below. God bless. Pj: That's right. God bless.