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A Christmas Carol (1999) · This Film is Lit

• 0:04
  Speaker A: This Film Is lit the podcast where we finally settle the score on one simple Is the book really better than the movie? I'm Brian and I have a film degree, so I watch the movie but don't read the book.
• 0:15
  Speaker B: And I'm Katie, I have an English degree, so I do things the right way and read the book before we watch the movie.
• 0:22
  Speaker A: So prepare to be wowed by our expertise and charm as we dissect all of your favorite film adaptations and decide if the silver screen the or the written word did it better. So turn it up, settle in and get ready for spoilers because this film is lit. If I could work my will, every idiot who goes about with Merry Christmas on his lips should be boiled with his own pudding and buried with a steak of holly through his heart. It's A Christmas Carol and this film is lit. Hello and welcome back to this Film Is lit. The pockets where we talk about movies that are based on books. It's our 2025 Christmas special. We're talking about A Christmas Carol, specifically the 1999 made for TV film starring Sir Patrick Stewart. If you have not read or watched A Christmas Carol recently, we're gonna give you a brief summary of the film right now. Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up. Moneylender Ebenezer Scrooge buries his friend and business partner Jacob Marley, before returning to work at his counting house seven years later, on Christmas Eve 1843, Scrooge's loyal but meek clerk, Bob Cratchit, is the target of Scrooge's cruelty and bitterness. Scrooge declines his nephew Fred Bowley's invitation to him for Christmas dinner, dismisses two gentlemen collecting charitable donations, and frightens away a carol singer by brandishing a ruler. Scrooge. Scrooge reluctantly gives Cratchit Christmas Day off, so long as he comes in early the next day. Returning home, Scrooge encounters the tortured ghost of Marley. Marley warns Scrooge that the suffering he causes others he will have to repay even in death, and says Scrooge must either repent his wickedness or suffer a worse punishment than his own. Marley says three spirits will visit Scrooge during that night before departing. At one o', clock, Scrooge is visited by the Ghost of Christmas Past, who takes him back in time to his lonely childhood and boarding school, where his friends go home for Christmas. But he is not wanted because his father turned against him after his mother died. Scrooge's sister Fran, Fred's late mother, says that their father has changed, agreeing that he could come home for Christmas. Scrooge is employed by the benevolent Albert Fezziwig. At a party, Scrooge was in love with Belle, a young woman, and they became engaged. However, Belle chose to leave him when Scrooge proved unable to commit to her over amassing his fortune. Distraught, Scrooge extinguishes the ghost and finds himself back in bed. Scrooge meets the ghost of Christmas Present who shows him the joys of Christmas Day. They visit Cratchit's house where Scrooge is astonished to find that Martha Cratchit is a hard working young girl. Cratchit has an ill son, Tiny Tim. The family is content with their small dinner. The ghost comments that Tiny Tim will likely not live unless something changes. The ghost then shows Scrooge Christmas being celebrated on a lighthouse, a ship and by miners. The ghost shows Fred's Christmas party where he defends his uncle from his guest's snide remarks. The ghost shows prisoners celebrating with carols before suddenly aging the ghost that is not the prisoners, telling Scrooge his life is ending and warning him to beware of ignorance and want who manifest themselves as two wretched. The ghost then vanishes. The Ghost of Christmas yet to Come arrives and takes Scrooge into the future. At the Stock exchange, Scrooge sees business colleagues discuss a man's death and how they must attend and how they just attend his funeral if. And how they would attend his funeral if lunch is provided. I'm editing on the fly because it's not what is written in from Wikipedia here does not make sense. In a den, Scrooge sees a charwoman, a laundress and an undertaker trading the man's stolen possessions. Scrooge has shown the dead man under a sheet, but is reluctant to see his face. He asks to see anyone showing emotion for the man and is shown a couple happy how his death has freed them from debt. When asked to see tenderness connected with the death, the ghost transports Scrooge to Cratchit's house where Tiny Tim has died and the Cratchits are in mourning. At a cemetery, the ghost reveals Scrooge's name carved on a gravestone. Scrooge vows to change his ways. Just as the ghost closes its eyes and lifts its head, the grave opens and Scrooge sees his corpse before falling into an abyss and waking up to find himself alive in his bed. Joyous Scrooge finds the ghost had visited him all in one night instead of three, and that it is Christmas Day. Scrooge anonymously sends Bob's family a large turkey for Christmas dinner and ventures out among London citizens to spread cheer, even singing carols in church. He reluctantly visits and reconciles with Fred, shares a Christmas dinner, and dances for the first time in years. The next day, Scrooge plays a prank on Bob, pretending to be about to scold him for lateness, but instead giving him a raise and offering to assist his family. Scrooge comes to treat everyone around him with kindness and compassion and becomes a second father to Tim, who does not die and recovers, embodying the Christmas spirit. All right, that was a summary of the film. I have a bunch of questions. Let's get into them. In.
• 5:17
  Speaker B: Was that in the book, Gaston? May I have my book, please?
• 5:21
  Speaker A: How can you read this?
• 5:22
  Speaker B: There's no pictures. Well, some people use their imagination, so.
• 5:26
  Speaker A: Some of our longtime listeners will know. We have actually covered A Christmas Carol before. Back very early in our run about seven, eight years ago, our first Christmas episode may have been. Yeah, very, very early in our run, we did A Christmas Carol. That makes sense that it would be our first. So we're revisiting it here. I am just gonna treat this like it's the first time, and I'm just gonna ask all of the questions, like, we haven't talked about this before and not try to, like, fig. I didn't go back to see, like, what questions I. The format of the show was slightly different. Things have changed over the years. So we're just gonna treat it, like I said, like it's the first time. So if you have not listened to that episode, hopefully your answers, your questions will be answered in this one. So my first question, the film opens up at Marley's funeral. We see his casket being taken to the graveyard, and then we briefly see his funeral. And then after the funeral, we see Scrooge kind of remembering him briefly in some office or something like that. And I wanted to know if the book started that way, because obviously. So my main experience with A Christmas Carol is the Muppet Christmas Carol. I've seen this one before, but I've only seen it once or twice a couple times years ago. And I remembered very little of it other than some of the character designs, really was the main thing. And then I think I've seen a couple other random ones here or there, and I know the general gist of the story, but I've never read it, and I've not watched a ton of them a bunch, so I don't know, like, the specifics. Of what's in there. So I didn't think it started at Marley's funeral. But I thought that was interesting that this one does and that Marley's funeral takes place. Initially, I was like, oh, is this like a year earlier? But then we find out that Marley actually died seven years prior, at least in this version. Seven years prior to the main story taking place. And so I wanted to know if that same time passage. And if we do see Marley's funeral in the book.
• 7:25
  Speaker B: No, we do not. The book does not open with Marley's funeral. It starts on the same Christmas that Scrooge meets all of the ghosts. We are told that Marley has been dead for seven years, though, so that's accurate.
• 7:38
  Speaker A: Okay. And the way the movie depicts that, which I thought was actually kind of fun, is that after that opening scene with Marley's funeral, he gets back to his office and the camera pans up to the sign. Or tilts up to the sign. I should say a pet peeve. Everybody just calls every camera move a pan when they're not. That's a specific camera move. It doesn't really. I say it's a pet peeve. It's not really. I actually don't care that much because I do it myself. But there is a difference. So the camera tilts up to May even pedestal up. I'm not sure. I would have to go back and watch. But it moves up to the sign that says Scrooge and Marley. And then we get, like, a passage of time and the sign rusts as the years passed. And I thought it was a nice little detail. I liked seeing that to show the passage of time. But then also, Marley's name gets kind of rusted over, which I thought was a fun little detail. And I wanted to know if that came from the book.
• 8:32
  Speaker B: That is not mentioned in the book. Although I also thought the rust was a fun way to show the passage of time. It is, however, lore accurate that Scrooge never took Marley's name off of the sign.
• 8:44
  Speaker A: Because when we cut to seven years later, inside, I think it's Cratchit says, like, are you ever gonna take Marley's name off the sign? Or something like that.
• 8:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Okay, interesting. So then we get. I'm gonna have a fair number of questions about lines from the book. Although some of them I didn't ask that. I just knew, I think, because also we discussed them in our last episode, the man who Invented Christmas. We kind of covered some of those things that would have been questions had we not just Done that. So if you wanted some more answers and information about A Christmas Carol, go listen to the man who Invented Christmas episode. But one of the lines that is early here that I wanted to know if it came from the book, is there, he's arguing with his nephew, shows up, and his nephew is kind of giving him a hard time about being an old Scrooge.
• 9:34
  Speaker B: A curmudgeon.
• 9:35
  Speaker A: A curmudgeon. And Scrooge retorts by saying, what right have you to be merry? You're poor. And Fred responds by saying, what right have you to be miserable? Then you're rich. And I wanted to know if that exchange came from the book.
• 9:50
  Speaker B: It does. The verbiage is not exactly the same, but it is very, very close. The line from the book is, what right have you to be merry? What reason have you to be merry? You're poor enough. And then Fred responds, come, then. What right have you to be dismal? What right have you to be morose? You're rich enough.
• 10:09
  Speaker A: Yes. So, yeah, a couple very minor tweaks to the wording, but basically identical. So then we see a scene that I did not recall from other versions, which is we see some carolers out singing on the street, and they're at the, like, building next door, the office next door to Scrooge's. And then one of the kids, though, is like, well, I'm gonna go next door. And the other kids are like, I wouldn't do that. But this kid's like, nah, I'm gonna do it. And he goes over there and starts caroling in front of Scrooge's office. And Scrooge comes out, and it's the COVID of this movie.
• 10:47
  Speaker B: Yeah. Where he's, like, brandishing.
• 10:49
  Speaker A: Brandishing his. I thought it was, like, a walking stick or something.
• 10:52
  Speaker B: So did I, but it's a ruler.
• 10:54
  Speaker A: Wikipedia says it's a ruler. Yeah, I really thought it was, like, a walking stick. But he brandishes at him and chases him off. And I wanted to know if that moment came from the book.
• 11:04
  Speaker B: Pretty close. There is a single caroler who sings at Scrooge's door. And Scrooge snatches up his ruler and, like, starts to get up from his desk, which causes the caroler to run off. I don't think he actually, like, opens the door, though. I did really enjoy the movie's edition of the other kids trying to stop him from going to Scrooge's.
• 11:24
  Speaker A: It was fun.
• 11:26
  Speaker B: And you had the question about not remembering that from the Muppet version. So I have A bonus. Was that in the book. Answer for you, that scene does happen in A Muppet Christmas Carol. The killer. The killer, the caroler is bean bunny and Scrooge, there's a wreath at him.
• 11:44
  Speaker A: So, reading that, I do remember that scene now.
• 11:46
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 11:47
  Speaker A: I think part of the issue I realized as I was watching this is that some of the scenes when they didn't. When they starred Muppets, my brain didn't, like, register them as the same scene because I had a similar moment later and I didn't include it as a question. But later, when we see the scene where they're selling his belongings.
• 12:07
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 12:07
  Speaker A: I was like, I don't remember this from the Muppet version. But then I thought about it more. I was like, oh, no, this definitely is in the Muppet version with the spider and the. Yeah, yeah. I was like, oh, actually, I do remember that now.
• 12:17
  Speaker B: Some, like, truly creepy Muppets.
• 12:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. As I thought about it more, but then I was like, oh. And I think that's what it was. Is that a lot of some of the scenes where it was like. I don't know, like, my brain didn't clock. I think part of it is that some of those, like, with the caroler and stuff, my brain interpreted them more as, like, Muppet gags and not, like, moments from the story necessarily, because there are some, like, meta, you know, like, Muppet gags throughout that. And I think. So I was. I don't know. That was interesting. So he then gets home that night after chasing off the charity people and all that stuff. And this is where the story begins in earnest. And it starts here a little earlier than it does in some of the other versions I've seen, where, as he arrives home, he actually sees Marley's ghost first appear in his door knocker as he's standing outside of his door. And I wanted to know if that came from the book, because I thought that was interesting. And also, it's a kind of an interesting, fun callback in this one to earlier, right after Marley's funeral, he's talking to, like, I don't know, somebody there post the funeral, and they're talking about Marley being dead as a doornail, and they have a whole conversation about, like, the phrase dead as a doornail and about why is a doornail the deadest thing? And in this movie, they have a little exchange where the guy says, you know, why isn't it dead as a doorknob or dead as a door knocker? And so I thought it was funny that, you know, one scene later we see Marley's ghost in a door knocker, which I thought was a fun little callback anyways. Does that come from the book?
• 13:52
  Speaker B: Scourge does see Marley in his door knocker in the book.
• 13:56
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 13:57
  Speaker B: Or the door knocker, like, transforms into his face.
• 14:02
  Speaker A: Right.
• 14:03
  Speaker B: He sees something and then he looks again, and it's just a normal door knocker. So he's not really sure what he saw.
• 14:10
  Speaker A: Right. Yes.
• 14:12
  Speaker B: I did think that the special effect was a little goofy.
• 14:16
  Speaker A: I mean, it's fine. I didn't think it was that bad. I thought overall, the special effects were fine. Especially considering it's a made for TV movie from 1999. It could have looked significantly worse than it did.
• 14:27
  Speaker B: But the detail of Marley having his glasses, like, propped up on his forehead when he appears in the door knocker is from the book.
• 14:36
  Speaker A: Okay. So then we get inside and we get a few more little moments of him seeing Marley. And, like, he sees it and he has these tiles over his fireplace that have, like, little paintings on him. And he sees Marley in those and stuff like that. Before finally, Marley just walks through the door, chains and all. And we see the full Marley. And then they have their conversation. And during this conversation, Marley, in order to talk more eloquently, pulls his chin bandage thing off. Which, I don't know, maybe you have this.
• 15:10
  Speaker B: I have some information on that. I do.
• 15:12
  Speaker A: He pulls his chin bandage thing off. I've realized, I was watching it this time, that this is the first version I've ever seen do this. And it's also. But I also realized I had the vision of Marley with the, like, yeah, jaw bandage thing. And never thought about, like, what it was or why or, like, what was going on there. But in this one, he pulls the bandage off and his jaw, like, falls open, like, comically large, insinuating that he's, like, had, like, a dislocated jaw or broken jaw or something. And so it's, like, hanging there. And then in this one, Patrick Stewart Scrooge helps him by shutting it for him, which I thought was funny. And I wanted to know if any of that came from the book.
• 15:55
  Speaker B: Most of this does come from the book. Yeah. So the quote from the book is. But how much greater was his horror when the phantom taking off the bandage round his head as if it were too warm to wear indoors, its lower jaw dropped down upon its breast.
• 16:12
  Speaker A: There you go.
• 16:13
  Speaker B: Scourge does not help him shut it.
• 16:15
  Speaker A: Okay.
• 16:15
  Speaker B: The book implies that he just doesn't look at the ghost the entire time. His Jaw is unhinged. When it had said these words, the specter took its wrapper from the table and bound it round its head as before. Scrooge knew this by the smart sound its teeth made when the jaws were brought together by the bandage. So he hears his teeth clack together and knows that the bandage is back on.
• 16:39
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:41
  Speaker B: So I did look this up and I found like a little bit of conflicting information about whether this was something that would have been done in Dickens time or if maybe it was something from like a little bit earlier.
• 16:57
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 16:57
  Speaker B: But it was a thing to wrap up a corpse's jaw like that so that their mouth didn't just like flop open.
• 17:07
  Speaker A: Interesting. Yeah, I had no idea. I thought maybe it was some related. Something specific related to his, like how he died or something.
• 17:16
  Speaker B: I don't think so. I think it was just a thing that they had to do, like.
• 17:20
  Speaker A: Yeah, I believe now they still do, but now I think it's just like a mouthpiece.
• 17:24
  Speaker B: Yeah. They have some way like more discreet.
• 17:26
  Speaker A: Basically like a mouth guard thing that you put in there that. That their teeth go into. That just keeps their mouth shut as opposed to like that. Yeah. Because they do a similar thing for your eyes.
• 17:36
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 17:36
  Speaker A: Which I know is. I'm sure people are aware, have seen the things that there's a similar. For embalming like thing to keep your eyelids shut or whatever. But anyways, interesting.
• 17:47
  Speaker B: That wide mouth effect though, did make me laugh because it reminded me of early aughts. Doctor who.
• 17:53
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. I thought it looked pretty good though. I thought Marley looked good in it again, especially for a 1999 made for TV movie. I thought it still held up pretty well, all things considered. So they have their whole conversation and Marley explains that he will be haunted by three spirits this night. And Scrooge asks him, is this the chant? Because earlier Marley had said like, you know, you'll have a chance to change your fortune or something like that.
• 18:20
  Speaker B: Right.
• 18:21
  Speaker A: And he says, you'll be haunted by three spirits. And. And Scrooge says, is this that chance you spoke of? And Marley says, yes, and Patrick Steer. Scrooge responds, in that case, I'd rather not. Which I thought was funny. And I wanted to know if that exchange came from the book.
• 18:37
  Speaker B: Again, this is very, very close. You will be haunted by three spirits. Is this the chance and hope that you mentioned, Jacob? It is. I think I'd rather not.
• 18:49
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, that's it. And then right after that, he follows that up by saying, asking Marley if instead of, you know, the three Spirits coming one after the other. If, quote, something along the lines of, can't we get them all done at once? And that was also a funny line that I wanted to know if it came from the book.
• 19:08
  Speaker B: Also. Very, very close. Couldn't I take them all at once and have it over? Jacob? All right.
• 19:15
  Speaker A: Just Dickens, guys. Funny, funny guy. Witty. Some would say you should consider writing more books. I don't know. We'll see then. A thing that I feel very confident I have not seen is not in the Muppet version, but I don't remember seeing in any other versions that I've seen. Marley takes him to the window and throws the shutters open and shows him. Lets him look out over. This is London, right? Yeah, yeah, look over London. And as he looks out, he sees this, like, river of ghostly spirits kind of flowing through the sky over the city. And I wanted to know if that description came from the book. He also sees one of the spirits, like, go down and, like, try to help some homeless woman or something like that. But that imagery of all of these thousands of spirits flying through the sky, I wanted to know if that came from the book. Cause that was kind of gnarly. And I was. Again, it was not something I thought I had seen in A Christmas Carol before.
• 20:13
  Speaker B: That does come from the book. The book doesn't describe them as being like a river, like the way that the movie kind of visualized it, but it does say that the air was filled with phantoms. So, like, close enough.
• 20:24
  Speaker A: Fair enough. Yeah, fair. That's one way to depict the air filled with phantoms.
• 20:28
  Speaker B: Absolutely. I was actually kind of delighted to see this included, because this is a random part of the book that I feel like nobody talks about. And it's like a weird, somehow even darker take on hell. To spend eternity constantly being confronted by the opportunity to repent, but not being able to.
• 20:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Cause that's the thing he says is when we see the specific person, he's like, you can't. You know, he has the desire to be better and, like, repent or whatever. But.
• 21:01
  Speaker B: But he literally can't.
• 21:02
  Speaker A: He literally can't because he's a non corporeal spirit or whatever who can't interact with the world, which. Yeah. So then we get the first, the Ghost of Christmas Past shows up looking like. I don't. It's not played by Doug Jones, but it kind of. The actor kind of looks like Doug Jones playing, you know, the Ghost of Christmas Past, which. Not a creepy little girl, like in the Muppet. That's right. That's the Muppet one, right. Where she's like, the little floating girl or whatever.
• 21:33
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 21:33
  Speaker A: This one's like a genderless, like, seemingly genderless kind of white, angelic spirit, which I thought was. I thought it was a fine design, takes him to the past. And we start seeing Scrooge's childhood. And one of the things we see, which I thought was interesting, and I'm still. Even after reading the Wikipedia description, I'm still a little confused at what transpired here, is that we see him being stuck at school.
• 21:56
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 21:57
  Speaker A: For. Because, like, his family doesn't want him back at home or whatever. But then we also see a scene where his sister Fran shows up and is like, hey, Father, come home for Christmas. Father has changed or something.
• 22:09
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 22:10
  Speaker A: And then I think he does, right?
• 22:11
  Speaker B: He does. Yeah.
• 22:12
  Speaker A: And I was. So does that come from the book? And do you have any additional. Like, it just felt kind of. I was a little confused at, like, when that was supposed to. Like, is there, like, is there an impetus for what changed? Is that discussed anymore? Like, how his father changed? Like what? I don't know. I just thought that was a little haphazardly, kind of. Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:33
  Speaker B: So it plays out pretty much the same in the book where we see Scrooge and he's at this boarding school, and we find out that he stays there over the holidays because his father doesn't want him at home. And then we see, like, another Christmas at that same boarding school where Fran shows up and she's like, I convinced Father to let you come home for the holidays. And he's a lot nicer now for some reason.
• 23:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:03
  Speaker B: It's never explained why, like, what happened there. There's a lot of.
• 23:10
  Speaker A: And is he genuinely. Do we think he would, like. Do we see any of him going home and, like, interacting with his family, or we just see that, like, what we saw in the movie, basically.
• 23:20
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 23:20
  Speaker A: Okay, sorry, continue.
• 23:21
  Speaker B: But I do. I do believe there's quite a bit of, like, kind of scholarly debate about what the situation is supposed to be there. Exactly.
• 23:32
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 23:32
  Speaker B: Like, if maybe the father in. In this is based on, like, Charles Dickens father, who he didn't have, like, particularly good relationship with, which we talked.
• 23:41
  Speaker A: About more, if you want to hear it in the man who Invented Christmas.
• 23:44
  Speaker B: Yeah. Or maybe if there's something else supposed to be going on here. And what's interesting, I have this in another section, but I'll go ahead and talk about it now. It's not really a better in the book or better in the movie. Kind of a thing, per se. But in the movie, Scrooge explicitly says that his father dislikes him because he blames him for his mother's death.
• 24:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 24:11
  Speaker B: Which is a storytelling shorthand way of letting us know that his mother died in childbirth.
• 24:17
  Speaker A: Usually.
• 24:18
  Speaker B: Usually, yeah.
• 24:19
  Speaker A: Unless something else. Yeah, but usually.
• 24:21
  Speaker B: But he still has a younger sister.
• 24:23
  Speaker A: Yeah. So it must be something else.
• 24:26
  Speaker B: But if that is the case, would imply that Fran then is either his half sister or his stepsister, which I think could add, like, a potentially interesting layer to his character, because I feel like adult Scrooge is the kind of person that I would expect to dismiss a relationship over not being, like, blood related. Yeah, I know I'm conjecturing a lot here, but that tiny little ad that the movie made kind of sent me down a rabbit hole. Yeah, that's interesting because the book never, like, discusses why his dad doesn't like him.
• 24:56
  Speaker A: That is shorthand for that. Usually. I think it's the third option of. There is that his mother died post having Fran for some other reason that his father blames for Charles for. No, I mean, I know they were out on a. They were out in a carriage together and the carriage crashed and his mom died, and he blames Charles, you know, Scrooge for some reason or something. You know, there. There are other options. But it does generally. Yes, generally that would imply that she died in childbirth. So, yeah, that. That is an interesting. So, you know, kind of conjecture. Other way to look at it is that if she is his half sister or stepsister or whatever. But yeah, I was also just kind of curious to know if, like, we saw any of. I guess my other question related to that was, like, what? Is it true? Like, does Scrooge in that scene go home to have a nice Christmas at home with his family, or did he get home and it sucked? You know what I mean?
• 25:55
  Speaker B: Like, yeah, I don't know. The book does not.
• 25:57
  Speaker A: Listen. That's what I was interested to see because it's. It's kind of. It's one of those scenes, like the scene where he's stuck at Christmas or where he's stuck at the boarding school every Christmas because his home life sucks or he doesn't want to go home or they don't want him or whatever. Perfectly informs his character later. Like, is one of the breadcrumbs that perfectly makes me understand why Scrooge becomes the person he is down the road later. But the little wrinkle of throwing in a scene where his sister shows up and goes, oh, no, Dad's better now. He wants you home for Christmas. Makes you go, okay, well, how does that play into.
• 26:34
  Speaker B: Right.
• 26:35
  Speaker A: And Scrooge becomes.
• 26:36
  Speaker B: And I think that that is meant less to inform, like, our perception of how he became the way that he is. And the purpose that it's serving is more to remind Scrooge that he did love his sister.
• 26:51
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 26:52
  Speaker B: And to make him feel bad about the way that he treats her only child.
• 26:56
  Speaker A: Right. And I think that makes sense. Yeah. So then we jump forward a little bit, and we get the classic scene where Scrooge gets broken up with by his girlfriend. Fiance. I don't know if they're engaged. I think they're engaged. Or if not, they're.
• 27:11
  Speaker B: Corey. Yeah. They have, like, an agreement to be married. I don't know what the standards.
• 27:17
  Speaker A: Formally engaged would have been, but Belle, who we saw introduced during the Fezziwig party scene, and she breaks up with them. And obviously, I remember a similar scene from the Muppet Christmas Carol, but in this one, one of the things I really liked was I really enjoyed Patrick Stewart's performance in this scene. As he's watching this, he is, like, desperately pleading with his younger self to say something to her and to stop her when she leaves and is just, like, kind of desperately pleading for him to make a different choice than he knows he made in that moment, which I thought was really compelling. And I wanted to know if any of that came from the book.
• 27:58
  Speaker B: It actually doesn't. And this, honestly might be my favorite thing that the movie changed. I think the implication that Scrooge still regrets losing Belle and has just been burying that for all of these years is really heartbreaking.
• 28:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. So that scene happens, but the scene.
• 28:16
  Speaker B: Happens, but he doesn't try to beg his younger self to.
• 28:20
  Speaker A: To go out to make a different decision. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, No, I. Like I said, I. That was. I thought. I was excited to see that you thought this was maybe your favorite change that it made, because I thought that was probably one of the more compelling parts of the movie of this version. And then a couple things that we'll get here a little bit later that I thought was interesting. But. So then we jump forward or we get to the end of the Ghost of Christmas Pastime, and Scrooge gets rid of him by pulling out a giant candle snuffer thing. And I think that's what it's supposed to be. That's what it looks like, but it's, like, gigantic. And he uses it to snuff out the Ghost of Christmas Past, who does give off his own light. So it's kind of fitting, like, because he's glows or whatever. And so, I don't know, maybe supposed to be, like, the embodiment of a light or a candle or something like that. But I wanted to know if that's because I didn't recall seeing that other places. Maybe I have. But if that came from the book. Scrooge snuffing out the Ghost of Christmas Past with a candle thing.
• 29:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, he does. It is set up initially that the Ghost of Christmas Past is carrying, like, a hat that looks like some kind of candle snuffer.
• 29:34
  Speaker A: Oh, okay.
• 29:35
  Speaker B: So then at the end of this.
• 29:36
  Speaker A: Scene, that matches with the line at the beginning when he first shows up, Patrick, like, Scrooge says, like, can you lower your hat or something? You're. You're blinding. You're, you know, you're too bright or whatever. But in the movie, he's not. He doesn't have a hat on. Or he might have, like, a little hat on, but he's not wearing a candle snuffer for sure. Right? Yeah, yeah.
• 29:59
  Speaker B: But then at the end of their time together, he turned upon the ghost, and seeing that it looked upon him with a face in which, some strange way there were fragments of all the faces it had shown him, wrestled with it. Leave me. Take me back. Haunt me no longer in the struggle, if it can be called a struggle, in which the ghost, with no visible resistance on its own part, was undisturbed by any effort of its adversary. Scrooge observed that its light was burning high and bright, and dimly connecting that with its influence over him. He seized the extinguisher cap and by sudden action pressed it down upon its head. The spirit dropped beneath it so that the extinguisher covered its whole form. But though Scrooge pressed it down with all his force, he could not hide the light which streamed from under it in an unbroken flood upon the ground.
• 30:51
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. That's what we see in the movie. That does not happen in the Muppet version. No, she just disappears. Right. Or something. I can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember exactly. He doesn't, like, snuffer out of existence or whatever. Okay. It would be a little different with a weird child doll than it would be in this. So then we get to the Ghost of Christmas Present, who shows up and takes him several places, but one of the first places he takes him is the Cratchits, and we watch the Cratchits eat. And I was interested to know if this came from the book if we spent so much time watching their Christmas meal in the book. Because in other versions of this I've seen, we don't normally. Like, normally you see that scene briefly and you know, like enough time for Scrooge or somebody remark about how there's not much food for how many children there are or whatever, and then you kind of move on. But we spend like a long time at the Cratchits in this movie, like 10 minutes or something, going through like all of their courses and everything. And I wanted to know if that came from the book because I thought that was really interesting and felt intentional and. Which also. Anyways, go ahead, answer and then we can discuss.
• 32:01
  Speaker B: But yeah, that is in the book. They watch the entire meal and dessert. And the line where one of the kids is worried that maybe somebody stole their pudding from the back porch is also from the book.
• 32:12
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah. I wonder if part of what. Because we talked about that during the man who Invented Christmas. And as the title, you know, implies that as the title implies, Dickens and this book were kind of responsible for rekindling or kindling the celebration of Christmas in England and the UK and thus, you know, the English speaking world beyond there. And I wonder if I would be interested to know how much of kind of the traditional Christmas dinner is because of this book versus prior to. Obviously a lot of it is just the Midwinter Feast and stuff and coming from other traditions, but like kind of our idea of a traditional Christmas feast. Because they do spend so much time kind of on that scene in this book. I wonder if it does. Whether or not it like I would imagine. I guess I'm interested to know if that like really helped or like brought up the popularity of like having a specific styled Christmas feast. Or maybe that was the one part that actually was celebrated kind of prior to this book.
• 33:23
  Speaker B: I do feel like I remember reading maybe in the man who Invented Christmas that like following this book's popularity, that turkey overtook goose as the bird of choice for Christmas dinner. Cause he sends them a turkey at the end. There is quite a bit of focus on food in this first part of the Ghost of Christmas Presents chapter. When he. When Scourge walks out of his bedroom and he sees the ghost and he's like giant, like takes up the whole room. He's described as being surrounded by this bountiful feast.
• 34:03
  Speaker A: Yeah, because he has like a cornucopia and stuff.
• 34:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, there's like, there's food everywhere. And then when they go out into the street, there's A lot of description of, like, what's being sold that morning. Like, all of the shopkeepers and, like, really lingering on descriptions of, like, all the different types of fruits that you can get and, like, the cakes and the different meats that are for sale. And then we go to the Cratchits and we see this kind of very meager meal that they're having.
• 34:36
  Speaker A: Yeah. To juxtapose that.
• 34:38
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker A: Yeah. Well, it's essential because we were. We just literally last night watched a couple of videos from YouTube channel the Townsends that we enjoy, which is. They cover primarily 18th century stuff. And they were doing 18th century, like, Christmas recipes. And they talked about how there wasn't really, like, in the cookbooks of that time period, there weren't really Christmas recipes. Like, that wasn't really a thing, like.
• 35:04
  Speaker B: Right. Because Christmas was not being celebrated.
• 35:06
  Speaker A: It was not celebrated the way that it is now. And so. I don't know. I was just. Yeah, it was interesting. But, like, the idea. Because, like, even like, a goose, like, is still. I know most people do turkeys and stuff nowadays, but a goose is not uncommon. Like, not wildly uncommon. Yeah, if you're gonna cook a goose these days, it's gonna be on Christmas. You know what I mean? Like, if somebody's gonna roast a goose these days, it's gonna be on Christmas. And I. Yeah. I just wonder how much, you know, the book's focus on the food and stuff kind of led to that.
• 35:38
  Speaker B: I don't know.
• 35:38
  Speaker A: But again, it is tough because obviously, like I said, Midwinter Holidays, being a feasting holiday is kind of. Every holiday tended to be a feast holiday back in the day, but. Or most of them, unless they were fasting holidays, they were either feasting or fasting holidays.
• 35:52
  Speaker B: Some of them were sex holidays, some.
• 35:54
  Speaker A: Of them were sex holidays, but you were usually fasting or feasting holidays, one of the two. So also, during the Ghost of Christmas Present sequence, he then takes them after the Cratchits, he takes them to a lighthouse and then a ship, like, in the ocean, and then a coal mine, and shows him all of these different people kind of in these harsh or extreme environments, all celebrating Christmas in keeping Christmas in their hearts. And I wanted to know if that little tour he takes him on came from the book, because that's not something you normally see. At least I say normally in the versions I have seen. That is not something I recall seeing before.
• 36:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, that is from the book. He takes him around and they see all of those different. Like, literally all of those different specific Places. I think it might be in a slightly different order in the book, but they do hit lighthouse, ship, mine.
• 36:47
  Speaker A: There you go. So then they finally, they. They let. They end up arriving at Scrooge's nephew Fred's, where they are playing games on Christmas Day. And one of the. Well, first they show up, and I think they're just. They might be eating or. I don't know what they're doing initially, but then goes to Christmas present is like, all right, time to go. And they start to leave, but as they're leaving, he hears them start to play games inside.
• 37:15
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:15
  Speaker A: And Scrooge is like, hey, actually, hey, they're about to play games. Can we go back and, like, watch them play these games? Which I thought was interesting. And I wanted to know of that little detail of Scrooge being the person, because in the Muppet version and the other versions, I recall, it's often, I think, just depicted. Like, that's one of. One of the scenes there while they're there, you see, is them, like, playing games or whatever. And famously, in the Scrooge or in the Muppet version, it's. They're playing, like, 20 questions, basically.
• 37:43
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 37:44
  Speaker A: And. But anyways, I wanted to know if that detail of Scrooge being the one that kind of instigates staying to watch more and, like, wanting to be in that environment came from the book. Because I really liked seeing one of the things. And you see this in other versions, but I really noticed it in this one, in this scene, in this moment specifically, was one of them seeing kind of the gradual softening and changing of Scrooge over the course of the events, as opposed to kind of just like being a humbug the whole time and then. And then at the end being like, all right, yeah. Whereas this, you could really feel, like, his inner desire to. To. To. To find connection and warmth and human. Yeah, human connection. Kind of fighting to escape his cold, hardened exterior. And I thought that was interesting, and I wanted to know if that came from the book.
• 38:41
  Speaker B: It does. Scrooge does bargain with the spirit to be allowed to stay longer at Fred's because he wants to keep watching them play games. They watch them play Blind Man's Bluff. And Scrooge is having such a good time watching them play this that they start another game and he's like, well, why can't we just stay another half an hour and watch them play this game? And then, unfortunately, the game that they play is the guessing game where the unflattering answer is him, although he doesn't seem, like super bothered by it in the book.
• 39:18
  Speaker A: In the book. Yeah, because. Yeah, that's the scene from.
• 39:22
  Speaker B: Yeah, that's the scene from Them up at Christmas Carol where Michael Caine looks devastated.
• 39:28
  Speaker A: Devastated to find out that he's the. The despicable ugly thing or whatever the. Yeah, all the little adjectives they use are.
• 39:37
  Speaker B: But, yeah, he doesn't. He's not particularly bothered by it in the book for whatever reason.
• 39:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 39:44
  Speaker B: But they did cut that scene entirely from this movie. And I'm wondering if maybe they wanted to just, like, keep Fred in our good graces.
• 39:53
  Speaker A: I think. I think that's probably it. I think they wanted to not even keep him in our good graces so much as just when we get to the end and Scrooge shows up and they reconcile to not have any lingering like. But does Fred secretly hate him or something? You know what I mean? Or does Fred actually, deep down, kind of despises him? I think the movie takes. This version takes it. It's like Fred is just an unabashedly nice person who keeps trying, despite his asshole uncle being a jerk and doesn't, like, talk shit behind his back. In fact, we see the opposite in this, where he defends his uncle.
• 40:31
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 40:32
  Speaker A: When some of the other people are talking shit on him, which I thought was. Yeah, it's just like, I. I love that scene in the Muppet version. I do think this version works, especially for the ending of this movie.
• 40:43
  Speaker B: No, I agree.
• 40:45
  Speaker A: So then we get to the end of the Ghost of Christmas Presents Time, and I don't recall this from the Muppet version and other versions I've seen, but all of a sudden, the Ghost of Christmas Present starts looking much older. And he explains to Scrooge that, oh, yeah, my lifespan is, like, tonight. And he's like, I'm gonna age rapidly and die when this night is over. And I wanted to know if that came from the book, because I thought that was interesting.
• 41:12
  Speaker B: So this is a really interesting detail that demonstrates the way that Christmas has changed since Dickens wrote this in 1843. In the book, Scrooge observes that the entire Christmas season appears to be, like, condensed into his journey with the spirit. And the spirit does age as they spend time together, but he vanishes on Twelfth night or epiphany, January 6th, which is the traditional end of the Christmas season. It's the 12th day of Christmas. Right.
• 41:46
  Speaker A: Does he say that or do we. Does he.
• 41:48
  Speaker B: We know that because the. Well, Scrooge observes that the whole Christmas season is passing. At one point, like, they're going. Like they're going through all of these different.
• 41:58
  Speaker A: Oh, so when they're seeing all these events, it's not all on Christmas Day.
• 42:02
  Speaker B: Correct. It's throughout the Christmas season.
• 42:04
  Speaker A: Throughout the Christmas season. Okay.
• 42:06
  Speaker B: And then right before the spirit, like, he observes that the spirit is aging. And then we get the conversation about, like, oh, my lifespan is only short. They've just left a Twelfth Night party. So we know that it is epiphany at that point. However, every adaptation I've ever seen has the ghost age and vanish at midnight on Christmas Day. Because that's how we understand Christmas now as being like, one day.
• 42:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yes. So then I skipped a lot here. But we get to the Ghost of Christmas Past. Or, sorry, Ghost of Christmas yet to Come.
• 42:41
  Speaker B: Yet to Come.
• 42:42
  Speaker A: The Grim Reaper ghost, the Ringwraith ghost. And he takes him, blah, blah, blah, around all that stuff. But then the main question I have is he gets him to the graveyard where Scrooge sees his grave with his name on it. And the reveal in this one's, eh, just. Okay. It's not as dramatic as in some of the other ones, but one of the things that happens in this one is after he sees his grave, the grave then splits open and reveals his corpse in the coffin in the grave. And then the ground crumbles away and Scrooge falls into the grave and lands on top of his own body and is like, face to face with his own corpse. And then the ground opens up and him and his corpse fall through a void space into the nether. And this is the final moment before he wakes back up in his bed. And I wanted to know if any of that, other than seeing the grave, came from the book.
• 43:35
  Speaker B: No, it doesn't. Okay. And I have to say that I was not a huge fan of this.
• 43:41
  Speaker A: I don't have strong feelings. I.
• 43:45
  Speaker B: Think it feels like overkill of the entire moment. And it also reminded me of Mickey's Christmas Carol, which terrified the snot out of me as a child.
• 43:57
  Speaker A: Fair. I don't. I've not seen. I don't know if I've seen Mickey's Christmas Carol.
• 43:59
  Speaker B: So this scene, this scene in Mickey's Christmas Carol, the ghost of Christmas yet to Come is played by Pete, who's like. And he's like, evil, and he's like, smoking a cigar. The cat guy. Goofy movie. He's in a goofy movie.
• 44:20
  Speaker A: Okay, I'll take. I'm realizing I don't know much about those characters, I guess.
• 44:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, he's a B tier Mickey Mouse character or whatever.
• 44:29
  Speaker A: Oh, I mean, I know that I recognize him. I don't think I ever. He's the fat, goofy character.
• 44:35
  Speaker B: Yes.
• 44:35
  Speaker A: I don't know if I would have.
• 44:36
  Speaker B: Known his name, but I think he's a cat.
• 44:40
  Speaker A: He is an anthropomorphic cat. And he is Mickey Mouse's arch nemesis, often called Peg Leg Pete or Black Pete.
• 44:48
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But he plays, like a villain a lot. So, anyway, in Mickey's Christmas Carol, he's the Ghost of Christmas Future and he's smoking a cigar, and he's basically the devil in this scene. And then, similar to this one, the grave splits open and Scrooge McDuck falls in. And then there's, like, the flames of hell are coming up out of the grave, and it's all, like, very religious.
• 45:17
  Speaker A: Interesting. Okay.
• 45:19
  Speaker B: Like, religious in a way that was upsetting to someone raised Catholic.
• 45:23
  Speaker A: Yeah. I don't disagree with it being overkill, necessarily. I don't think it's necessary. Like I said, I don't think you have to have it. I didn't mind it. I thought it worked fine. I liked the shot of the Patrick Stewart staring at his own face in the grave. I thought that was kind of fun. And then I thought it was an okay, kind of clever way when he falls into the void to get him back, to transition back to him waking up in bed. That kind of classic nightmare dream of, like, falling through space in the void.
• 45:51
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, that makes sense.
• 45:52
  Speaker A: You know, like, it kind of worked in that regard. But I agree that it's a little. The moment works just fine with him seeing the tombstone with his name on it, which this movie actually kind of shortchanges it, probably that moment specifically, probably because they had this other additional kind of moment happening. So he gets back home, he wakes up, he realizes, oh, my gosh, it's Christmas morning. I can change everything. And then he has the scene that I forgot was in this movie that I've seen clips of on the Internet. Have you ever seen this?
• 46:22
  Speaker B: No, I had never seen this before.
• 46:24
  Speaker A: This specific clip gets shared around on the Internet every now and then out of context, just because out of context, it's like, what is happening? But it is Scrooge remembering how to laugh. And he has this whole moment where he's, like, gagging and coughing and making these weird noises. And then all of a sudden, it turns into a laugh and he has this big bellowing laugh. And I was like, oh, my God, that's what this clip is from. Because I had forgotten. I've Seen that clip over the years. And I watched this years ago as a kid, but I just didn't remember. And I wanted to know if there's anything like, if that feels inspired by anything from the book, because I thought that was a very interesting choice.
• 47:05
  Speaker B: So this actually directly contradicts the text of the book. Scrooge does start laughing, but the text reads, really, for a man who had been out of practice for so many years, it was a splendid laugh, A most illustrious laugh.
• 47:22
  Speaker A: Okay, I think. I think the movie's trying to encapsulate that entire sentence in that moment.
• 47:32
  Speaker B: Right.
• 47:32
  Speaker A: Because he does have a splendid, illustrious laugh eventually, once he starts laughing. But I think the movie, there, the moment there, is trying to depict how out of practice he is like the first half of that sentence. But I agree that it does feel like what the book's implying there is that he just.
• 47:51
  Speaker B: He just laughs.
• 47:52
  Speaker A: He laughs like he's a great laugh. Yeah, it's a great laugh. Like he's been doing it forever.
• 47:56
  Speaker B: Yeah. And I understand what the movie was going for and I appreciate it. I personally did not love this movie.
• 48:05
  Speaker A: I entirely agree.
• 48:06
  Speaker B: Like you said, it makes no sense out of context. I didn't think it made sense in context. Once he starts laughing, it's like, oh, okay, he's laughing. But at first it just sounded like he was choking. And I was like, what's happening?
• 48:21
  Speaker A: I think that's kind of the point.
• 48:24
  Speaker B: Like, I understand that that's the point, but I don't think it lands.
• 48:27
  Speaker A: No, no, I'm saying even. I think so. Yes, I. Obviously, when you realize he's laughing, you're like, oh, he was like, trying to remember how to laugh. And like his body has not done it in so long that he physically can't. But I also think it's almost. Maybe what they're going for is almost this like, subversive, Subversive gag of like, when he initially starts choking, it's right after he's like, I can change my whole life. I can. I almost wonder if it's meant to be like, oh, shit, he's. Is he gonna choke to death in this? You know what I mean? Like, he's just had this big life.
• 49:01
  Speaker B: Changing revelation before he gets a chance.
• 49:03
  Speaker A: Yes, he's had this big life changing revelation and then, oh, my God, he starts choking to death. Like, I don't know if that's what they were going for. I agree. Either way. I agree. Even in context, it's a little silly. It's not. It's a lot Patrick Stewart's best acting choice that I've ever seen. It's just a lot. It feels. Yeah. It's just like, okay, like, I get what you're going for, but I don't think it necessarily works.
• 49:30
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 49:31
  Speaker A: Yeah. So then Scrooge gets to spend his Christmas day making up for lost time and doing all the wonderful Christmas things that he hasn't done his whole life. And one of those things we see is that after he's walking down the street greeting everybody is he decides to drop into a church because you hear some, you know, hymns or some singing inside the church, and he wants to go be part of that. And I love this. This little detail. He walks in the church and everybody's singing. And as he starts walking in, the guy, like, by the door looks at him, and Scrooge is wearing his hat still. And the guy, like, gestures to him, and he, like. He, like, gestures to his head, and Scrooge, like, oh. And, like, tips his cap to him. Like he's, like, acknowledging him. And then the guy's like, no. And he gestures again. He's like, oh. And he takes his hat off. And I really love the idea that Scrooge has, like, never been to church or hasn't been in forever and just has no idea what he's doing. And so he had to be reminded to take his hat off in church. I thought that was fun. And I want to know if it came from the book.
• 50:31
  Speaker B: The book mentions that he went to church, but there are no other details about that experience. This moment might be my second favorite thing that the movie did. I thought it was super cute.
• 50:42
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 50:43
  Speaker B: I also really liked when the man next to him shared his hymnal.
• 50:46
  Speaker A: Yeah. He goes up to sing, and then he's just standing there, and the guy.
• 50:49
  Speaker B: Just, like, gives, like, shows him his hymnal, and then he, like, remembers that he knows it or something.
• 50:54
  Speaker A: He's just kind of, like, mumbling along with the lyrics initially. And then the guy's like, oh, here he's. You go. Yeah, I thought that was really good. I thought that was a very fun scene.
• 51:04
  Speaker B: Also, I do want to know if that was actually Patrick Stewart singing, because it sounded pretty good.
• 51:09
  Speaker A: I think it was. Yeah, he sings and stuff. Like, he's. Yeah, he's not like, a singer, but he has a fine voice. Yeah, I've heard him sing in other stuff. He sings in Star Trek every now and then in some of the. Some of their more silly moments. So then after church, he decides to go visit his nephew Fred, which is A classic scene you see in most of the versions where he goes and hangs out with them that day or whatever, but in this one, and I don't remember seeing this in a lot of the versions, but he really. He skits. He arrives outside of Fred's apartment or house or whatever and spends a long time kind of contemplating whether or not he's gonna go in. He seems very nervous about it. And I thought that was, like a really fun, very character driven scene that felt very real of like, yeah, he's made these changes and he, you know, he's a different person, but.
• 51:59
  Speaker B: But, like, whether or not somebody else is gonna accept that different story.
• 52:04
  Speaker A: Well, and just even if he does accept that, still, just even if he's like, wants to be, you know, a different person ever, still, he's got to go and socialize with a bunch of people he barely knows. And it's just an awkward, you know, socially draining moment. So he's kind of, like, hyping himself up or whatever. And I wanted to know if that came from the book of that, like, hesitancy and kind of, like, unsure about what he's gonna do. But also, while that's all going on, they're inside singing. And the song they're singing in this scene in the movie, very fittingly, it's called, like, Shy. I don't know what the title is, but it's. The lyrics are about being shy and being awkward or something. I don't know. They're very thematically relevant.
• 52:42
  Speaker B: The music is about what's happening in.
• 52:44
  Speaker A: The scene, which I thought was very funny. And I wanted to know if that came from the book as well.
• 52:49
  Speaker B: So the part where he's anxious about going in is definitely from the book. The line is, he passed the door a dozen times before he had the courage to go up and knock, but he made a dash and did it. However, there is no mention of them singing a song about being shy.
• 53:06
  Speaker A: Okay. All right. Well, then he gets inside and I really liked, too, the kind of awkward way he, like, intrudes on their dinner. They're all sitting down, eating dinner, and he just kind of, like, squeezes in the door.
• 53:18
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 53:18
  Speaker A: And just, like, looks at Fred and they kind of share an awkward, brief conversation as he's, like, kind of sneaking in the door. And I wanted to know if that was how he awkwardly intruded on Christmas. And one of. Just. Overall, one thing I really liked about this version is how much time we spent on Christmas Day watching him enjoy it. And, like, you know, like, we see him go to dinner and we see him kind of reconnect with Fred and usually see that all in the other versions, but I feel like in the other versions, it's all very much an afterthought. At least, yeah, most of the versions I've seen. It's very much like we got to throw that in in the denouement, the last, like, five minutes, and then we get this thing over with, like. But this movie really kind of spends some time showing him go about his day and how he has changed and kind of the fun, awkward moments that arise because of that, which I thought was really fun anyways. His awkward intrusion on dinner kind of.
• 54:15
  Speaker B: He does awkwardly slide around the door like he does in the movie, but everyone isn't, like, in there seated for dinner. It's just Fred and his wife, like, looking over the table and making sure everything is in order when he comes in. We actually see a lot more of his time at Fred's house in the movie, which I agree is really fun and really nice. I love the end of A Muppet Christmas Carol. It ends in a big number. It's great. But I actually think that showing Scrooge spending the day with family at a party is a better way to show how drastically he's changed than going to Bob Cratchit's house.
• 54:57
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Which we still get in this at the end. Well, actually, he doesn't go to the house. They come to his house. But we still get that moment of him, like, with them in this one. It's the final shot of the movie. But, yeah, no, I agree. I like sending. Seeing him spend time with the family and stuff, and seeing him dance with them and everything, I just thought was a lot of fun. And then my final question is, we get to the next day after Christmas, and I don't think I've seen this in many versions because usually we're wrapping it up on the high note of Christmas or whatever. But we get to the next day and Cratch, it shows up late for work and kind of sneaks in and Scrooge decides to play a prank on him and. And gives him. He's gonna give him a raise because he realizes he's been underpaying him and everything. But as he initially starts out, like he's gonna scold Cratchit for being late, but then transit, he, like, bursts into this big smile and is like, ah, I'm giving you a raise. And he's, like, very boisterous and, like, happy. And Bob Cratchit like, freaks out and is, like, what the heck is happening? And he, like, stumbles away from him and grabs, like, a fire poker, I think, from the fire place, and is, like, going to defend himself from this imposter who has taken over Scrooge's body. And I wanted to know if that came from the book.
• 56:16
  Speaker B: A lot of this plays out the same way. And very similarly, Scrooge does wait until the next day to, like, play this prank on Bob Cratchit. And when he does, I guess he.
• 56:30
  Speaker A: Does do a similar thing in the Muppet version.
• 56:33
  Speaker B: He does. He just, like. He go. They have him go to their house and do it on Christmas.
• 56:37
  Speaker A: I do recall that now, where he, like, does kind of the prank. Prank thing.
• 56:40
  Speaker B: Yeah. Which straight to pranks is. Is wild, my guy. But there is a bit that's kind of close to the. The poker thing. In the movie, Bob trembled and got a little nearer to the ruler. He had a momentary idea of knocking Scrooge down with it, holding him and calling to the people in the court for help and a straight waistcoat.
• 57:06
  Speaker A: Okay. So, yeah, same idea of, like, him being like, there's something wrong with Scrooge. I need to defend myself. Yeah. All right, all right. Those are all my questions. I didn't have anything for Lost in Adaptation. I wasn't. You know, there wasn't anything. I was confused on here, really. But we are gonna find out what Katie thought was better in the book. You like to read?
• 57:27
  Speaker B: Oh, yes, I love to read.
• 57:29
  Speaker A: What do you like to read?
• 57:33
  Speaker B: Everything starting in media res at Marley's funeral is interesting, but not as good as the objectively banger opening line, marley was dead to begin with.
• 57:46
  Speaker A: It is one of the best opening.
• 57:49
  Speaker B: Lines in literature, truly. Also, the text very explicitly states that Scrooge was Marley's soul mourner and there were other people at that funeral in the movie. So you talked earlier about the exchange that he has with the guy at the funeral home or the priest or something, maybe about dead as a doornail.
• 58:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 58:11
  Speaker B: And I liked that the movie included that reframed as dialogue because it's actually a tangent that the narrator goes on. But I didn't like that they changed it to doorknob or doorknocker. Because in the book, it's coffin nail.
• 58:30
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah. Which makes sense.
• 58:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. The narrator. Yeah, the narrator conjectures that, if anything, the deadest nail is a coffin nail.
• 58:39
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 58:39
  Speaker B: Which is true.
• 58:41
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 58:42
  Speaker B: I also want to read. I want to read the initial description of the Ghost of Christmas Past.
• 58:49
  Speaker A: Okay. And that's the, like, light one.
• 58:51
  Speaker B: Yes. The one that. Yeah. He's kind of depicted as, like, candley Y. And I wanted to read this because I don't remember catching this the first time that we covered this, but he's like a biblically accurate ghost of Christmas past.
• 59:10
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 59:11
  Speaker B: There was. It was a strange figure, like a child, yet not so like a child as like an old man viewed through some supernatural medium, which gave him the appearance of having receded from the view and being diminished to a child's proportions. Its hair, which hung about its neck and down its back, was white, as if with age, and yet the face had not a wrinkle on it, and the tenderest bloom was on the skin. The arms were very long and muscular, the hands the same, as if its hold were of uncommon strength. Its legs and feet, most delicately formed, were, like those upper members, bare. It wore a tunic of the purest white and round. Its waist was bound a lustrous belt, the sheen of which was beautiful. It held a branch of fresh green holly in its hand, and in singular contradiction of that wintry emblem, had its dress trimmed with summer flowers. But the strangest thing about it was, from that crown of its head there sprung a bright, clear jet of light by which all of this was visible, and which was doubtless the occasions of its using in its duller moments, a great extinguisher for a cap, which it now held under its arm. Even this, though, when Scrooge looked at it with increasing steadiness, was not its strangest quality. For as its belt sparkled and glittered now in one part and now in another, and what was light one instant at another time was dark. So the figure itself fluctuated in its distinctness, being now a thing with one arm, now with one leg, now with 20 legs, now a pair of legs without a head, now a head without a body, of which dissolving parts, no outline would be visible in the dense gloom wherein they melted away. Okay, so it's almost like. It's like fractals or something.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's interesting.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker A: Huh. So the. The childlike part of that, though, is clearly what the Muppet version is pulling inspiration from. So.
• 1:01:18
  Speaker B: Yeah, but you. I mean, you said earlier also. I think you said, like, genderless.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:01:23
  Speaker B: Which is a pretty accurate description of the Ghost of Christmas Past, I feel like.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker A: Definitely feels like it's supposed to be kind of a genderless, like, barely human thing jumping forward.
• 1:01:36
  Speaker B: I didn't recall the book mentioning him traveling with the Ghost of Christmas Present by Snow Tornado.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker A: Yeah. When they go to the ship in the ocean.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker B: I thought that was a choice.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker A: That was fun.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker B: I also thought Tiny Tim lying in state at the Cratches house was kind of a weird choice.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker A: I was confused at what was going on there.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker B: Like, I feel like we can get that he died without having to see the body.
• 1:01:59
  Speaker A: Although maybe it's a thing that they felt like showing because maybe. Maybe they were like, well, we want to have this moment. But also, it wouldn't surprise me if historically something like that happened.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker B: I'm sure it did.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker A: And so. You know what I mean? They were like, well, this is actually a good opportunity to give us this, like, kind of dramatic moment where Cratchit, you know, is. Is with his dead child. But we can actually show that because this is a thing that actually happened. I don't know. I do wonder, because it. Yeah, like, it seems weird to modernize, but I do wonder if it's not maybe weird from the time.
• 1:02:35
  Speaker B: Yeah, I don't know. Maybe. I also think this movie completely skipped Scrooge at the end. Finding the guys who were collecting for charity.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker B: And promising them money.
• 1:02:47
  Speaker A: I don't think that happens.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. At least I don't recall, because that is something that. Something that happens in the book. We also see that in the Muppet version where he bumps into them again and he's like, oh, I forgot to tell you, I want to promise an absurd amount of money to your charity.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:03:04
  Speaker B: My last note here is more of, like, an overarching note, and I understand why a lot of adaptations wouldn't want to do this, but this story begs and yearns for its omniscient narrator.
• 1:03:22
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:03:23
  Speaker B: It is integral to the story. It's a load bearing, omniscient narrator. And it is, in my opinion, the number one reason why A Muppet Christmas Carol works so well. You need Charles Dickens.
• 1:03:38
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. No, I don't disagree. I think it would be improved with it. I think it works fine as is. Especially this version, I think works fine without it. I do think that that's helped by the cultural knowledge of the story and stuff like that. But I agree that, like, the versions where you get the narrator, I think are better. So I would have preferred to see a version with the narrator, but. All right, let's go ahead and find out what Katie thought was better in the movie. My life has taught me one lesson, Hugo, and not the one I thought it would. Happy endings only happen in the movies.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker B: I thought that having Marley die on Christmas Eve was Interesting. That's not something that's mentioned in the book because I feel like it implies some additional trauma. Assuming that Scrooge actually did care for Marley, which I think he does, and.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker A: The movie kind of shows that he sees it.
• 1:04:34
  Speaker B: I think it is implied in the text that Scrooge did care for Marley and consider him a friend.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:04:42
  Speaker B: I also liked seeing Scrooge saying a goodbye of sorts to Marley at the funeral.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker A: That's the scene I was alluding to. And I said, I think this movie does imply that he does care for him, at least a little bit. It's that scene.
• 1:04:57
  Speaker B: I liked the little moment where Bob Cratchit starts to say Merry Christmas to Scrooge as he's leaving from work and then like, catches himself and is like, I didn't say anything, man. I didn't say. I really liked the effect of how the wall, like, melted away when he first travels to the past with the first spirit.
• 1:05:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. And then the, like, leaves blow onto the floor and then, like, blow away.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker B: And then like, the furniture is still there and then the furniture kind of melts away.
• 1:05:27
  Speaker A: I thought it was. It was a very. It was a very well done kind of transition from his. His office or whatever to the woods.
• 1:05:36
  Speaker B: Jumping forward to the section with the Ghost of Christmas Present or. No, this is still Christmas Past. When they're at Fezziwigs.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker B: And he's watching them, his younger self, dance and it like pans down and he's tapping his toes. I thought that was cute.
• 1:05:51
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker B: Also really liked his seductive cloak removal moment with Belle.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker A: Oh, at the party.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Now we're jumping forward to Ghost of Christmas Present when they're at the Cratchits and their daughter Martha comes home because she is the oldest daughter. She's the oldest daughter and she is apprenticed at a milliner's shop. But she's home for Christmas and she tells her parents that she stayed late the day before so that she would be able to finish her work and come home for Christmas.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker B: And Scrooge says, she sounds like a very hard working young girl.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker B: And the spirit is like, she has to be. Yeah, man.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker A: Yeah. He says it very admirably. And the. The spirit is like, hey, man, fuck is wrong with you?
• 1:06:44
  Speaker B: They did not go and visit a prison in the book, but I thought that was a good addition.
• 1:06:48
  Speaker A: Yeah, that was fine. That was a fun little scene where they're singing carols in the prison. Yeah.
• 1:06:53
  Speaker B: I mean, like, especially given Scrooge's earlier lines about, like, are There no prisons? Are there no workhouses? I feel like it makes sense to. To make that one of the pit stops.
• 1:07:03
  Speaker A: Yeah. Also another scene that was lit beautifully. It was very good looking TV movie. I mentioned that it was nominated for best cinematography, which I totally get for. Especially for, you know, this was aired on TNT or whatever. It was a cable network or a cable made for TV movie. I thought they. The cinematographer did a great job and like, that prison scene is one of them where you have the, like the single window with the light streaming through and the like, candles and stuff. It's just very. It all feels very, like, dramatic and grim at times, but also very warm and festive at times. I just thought it very captured the season and the look of the story really well.
• 1:07:44
  Speaker B: Yeah, for sure. When he's with the Ghost of Christmas yet to Come and they first go and they hear, like, the businessmen talking about their colleague who died.
• 1:07:54
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:07:56
  Speaker B: Scrooge's line. Ah, the stock exchange. Now I feel at home.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:08:02
  Speaker B: And my last note here, I really liked at the end when Scrooge gets to Fred's house, that he goes over to Fred's wife specifically and, like, appeals to her because he likes.
• 1:08:17
  Speaker A: That's another great scene.
• 1:08:19
  Speaker B: He knows he needs to win her over.
• 1:08:21
  Speaker A: Well, it's not even that. It's not just appeals to her. I loved that he specifically apologizes to her. It's not just like, you know, trying to, like, win her. He, like, goes in and like, he doesn't just apologize to Fred and like, try to. He, like, goes to her and is like, hey, I'm sorry I was an asshole. Which I thought was really nice. Yeah.
• 1:08:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's a good scene.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker A: Yep. All right, let's go ahead and talk about some stuff. The movie nailed, As I expected.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker B: Practically perfect in every way. So obviously we already hit on a lot of things in your questions, but I have a few more things. Bob Cratchit's office being kind of like a separate little room at the front of the shop. The book calls it a tank.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker A: Interesting.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker B: I'm not really sure what exactly that implies. I don't know, but it. It looked accurate to, like, what I was imagining. Also.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker A: Maybe that's where Shark Tank comes from. Perhaps, like, in relation to, like, business. Yeah, Yeah. I don't know.
• 1:09:23
  Speaker B: I don't know. Also, Cratchit trying to warm his hands by his one little candle because Scrooge.
• 1:09:29
  Speaker A: Won'T put coal in the fire.
• 1:09:31
  Speaker B: Yeah. Cratchit applauds Fred's Christmas speech.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:36
  Speaker B: Scrooge just keeps shouting good afternoon at Fred as he's trying to get him to leave his.
• 1:09:42
  Speaker A: Good afternoon. Good afternoon.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker B: The exchange with the charity collectors is pretty spot on. Scrooge has gruel for dinner when he gets home.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker A: This pathetic little.
• 1:09:53
  Speaker B: Pathetic little meat bowl of gruel.
• 1:09:55
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:09:57
  Speaker B: Seeing Marley's face in the scenes on the tiles around the fireplace is from the book. Also, Marley's line, ask me who I was when he gets there. Marley then also explains that Scrooge's chains were actually just as bad as his are when he died. And now Scrooge has had an extra seven years to add to them. Yeah. Scrooge does get excited to see his childhood when they go back to the past.
• 1:10:25
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah, I remember all this. Yeah. He gets a little nostalgic.
• 1:10:30
  Speaker B: The Ghost of Christmas Past does very pointedly remind Scrooge that Fred is his beloved sister's only child.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:10:38
  Speaker B: The Ghost of Christmas Present does walk around anointing everyone, throwing his dust.
• 1:10:43
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker B: Mrs. Cratchit does go off on Scrooge when Mr. Cratchit toasts to the founder of the feast.
• 1:10:52
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker B: Ignorance and want.
• 1:10:55
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 1:10:57
  Speaker B: Pretty book accurate. And the ghost says to beware the boy who's ignorant most of all.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:11:03
  Speaker B: The reveal that one of the women who's, like, selling to the pawn shop guy literally took the clothes off of Scrooge's corpse.
• 1:11:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. His shirt or whatever. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:11:16
  Speaker B: And then we see the young couple who are happy that Scrooge died because they'll get more time to pay off their debt.
• 1:11:21
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:11:22
  Speaker B: Scrooge's line are these shadows of things that will be or things that may be only. And then, of course, the classic Tiny Tim. Who did not die.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker A: Who did not die. Which this movie puts very similar emphasis on.
• 1:11:36
  Speaker B: Yes, well, because that's accurate.
• 1:11:37
  Speaker A: No, I know, I know. Yeah, I know, I know. I remember that specifically. We discussed that from when we did it for a monthly Christmas Carol.
• 1:11:45
  Speaker B: Is that this 1840s typography, they've got Nott in small caps. Who did not die.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker A: Did not die. Yes. I was commenting on that. This movie kept that as well. Kept that specific emphasis on not die. Yeah.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker B: All right.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker A: We got a handful of odds and ends before the final verdict. Boy. From moment one in this movie, the hat game out of control.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker B: Truly.
• 1:12:19
  Speaker A: The top hats. And I love that they're. I think this must be maybe more period accurate. They're all, like, furry.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:12:25
  Speaker A: A lot of them are, like, for normally when you see top hats in modern media, especially even from this time period, they're what we consider where it's like more of like a felt like. Or like. But these. Some of these are, like, clearly like, what. What you may call it, like fur pelt. Like.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker A: Where they have, like, a textured fur on them, which I thought was really interesting. But everybody has.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker B: There's somebody with. There was a cowboy hat at one point somebody had on. And like, this is not until later, but I went ahead and moved my note about this up to your note about the hat.
• 1:12:59
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:13:00
  Speaker B: In the scene where Belle breaks up with Scrooge, she's wearing this brown velvet coat. And I was obsessed with the weird giant hood.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker B: It's this crazy hood that's like.
• 1:13:14
  Speaker A: It's got structure.
• 1:13:15
  Speaker B: Yeah. It was structured. It looked like it had, like, round wire framing in it and then, like, ruching in between these wires and then, like, more ruching in the back.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's very interesting.
• 1:13:25
  Speaker B: Very crazy looking. I want to try to make it.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker A: Yeah, I was like that. It is a very cool. Very cool hood.
• 1:13:30
  Speaker B: I thought the sets were pretty good.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker B: Like, obviously a stout. A soundstage.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 1:13:36
  Speaker B: But pretty. Look pretty good for a soundstage.
• 1:13:39
  Speaker A: And one of the first shots we see is like a crane shot coming down from the roofs. Very similar to the muppet Christmas Carol 1. And it's so similar, in fact, that I was like, is. Did they use the miniatures from A Muppet Christmas Carol in this? Because it looks like the exact same rooftops, which I thought was funny.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker B: I do, speaking of a Muppet Christmas Carol, regret to say that nephew Fred is not nearly as hot in this one as he is in A Muppet Christmas Carol.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker A: Played by Dominic west in this one, though, who people probably recognize from things. He's been in quite a bit of stuff over the years. The guy who plays Fred in this one, I can't. I can't think of anything specific, but he is. Oh, the Wire. He was in the Wire, but he's been in lots of stuff over the years. He was in Chicago.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker B: Interesting.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker A: Oh, he's also in 300, a bunch of other stuff. He's been in tons of stuff, but, yeah, the Crown. He plays Prince Charles in the Crown, but, yeah, he plays Fred in this one. I thought he was good, but, yeah, he's not as hot as Fred. Fred from that one.
• 1:14:43
  Speaker B: No. Also, the problem with.
• 1:14:49
  Speaker A: We talked about this in the prequel.
• 1:14:50
  Speaker B: Yeah. With Richard E. Grant as Bob Cratchit, is that he has villain face. He just looks kind of evil and like toady.
• 1:15:00
  Speaker A: I. I don't disagree. But I thought he, oh, he. Because I was interested. That was what I was interested to see when I saw Richard Grant was playing Bob Cratchit is because he, like, primarily plays villains and stuff because he looks like a villain.
• 1:15:13
  Speaker B: Like, and I acting was fine.
• 1:15:15
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 1:15:16
  Speaker B: Like, he does a fine job with it, but he just has a villain.
• 1:15:19
  Speaker A: Yeah. I didn't think it came across in this one as much to me, I think partially because of his performance, but he also, I think he just looked so pathetic that it worked. Like he didn't look as imposing or villainous as he normally does because of just the type of character and his mannerisms and everything.
• 1:15:35
  Speaker B: Like, he's got evil face. He doesn't necessarily look evil this entire movie, but you know what he was really giving to me was Mr. Collins from Pride and Prejudice.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker A: Oh, I could see that a little bit.
• 1:15:51
  Speaker B: He was giving Mr. Collins like, like a little, like he looked a little slimy.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker A: A little bit. Yeah, a little. I can see what you're saying. He definitely. I and I thought you had to know about later, but I thought he, he looked dirty, which I thought was like, a good choice. I don't know. I thought he worked mostly. I, I, I didn't. He was maybe not as something about his appearance was maybe not as sympathetic as some other depictions of Bob Cratchit that I seen, but I thought he did okay. And he definitely embodied kind of the, like, put upon ness of Bob Cratchit that I think is important. One of the random, like, cameos. It's not a cameo because he wasn't any. He was just a random young working actor at this point. But one of the, the charity collector guys, he shows up in the beginning, is played by Jeremy Swift, who I was like, I know this guy from something. And it's the only thing I've seen him in, I'm pretty sure, is that he plays Leslie, who is like Rebecca's assistant guy and I think eventually becomes like, the sporting director, maybe in Ted Lasso. And I was like, I know that guy. And yeah, if you envision him with glasses, he's not wearing glasses in this. But it's like, oh, yeah. And he's also significantly younger because it was like, 25 years ago. But maybe my favorite detail in this whole movie.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, we stopped the movie to discuss.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker A: This is that when we go up and we see Scrooge's little study or whatever that he's hanging out in, because.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker B: I don't think he's in his house.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker A: Yeah. In his house. The little room where he's in when Marley shows up. The room has a curved door.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:17:28
  Speaker A: It is so cool. It was one of those things. I was like, I literally don't think I've ever seen this before, and now I must have one of these one day. But his. His door in. Into his office, little study or whatever, is at the top of a staircase, and it's, like, on the corner, and it's rounded, and the door is curved with the corner. It's, it's. And it. It's so interesting. I've never seen that before, and I thought it was amazing. And I was like, I, I. That's so cool.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker B: A question for people who have seen more adaptations of A Christmas Carol than I have. Is making young Scrooge hot just, like, a thing? Probably because he's hot in A Muppet Christmas Carol and he's hot in this.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker A: It's. It's an actor. So, like, they're generally. Yeah, okay.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker B: I think that's part of it.
• 1:18:22
  Speaker A: Sure.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker B: But, like, I'm just saying, I'm two for two here.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker A: Yeah, I. I think. I think. I think. I think that is intentional. I think they want you to be like. Like, because, you know, usually seeing him as an. It's actually kind of problematic, I think, in a little bit of a way is that his. His evilness has corrupted his external visage.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker B: I mean, he's also.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker A: He's just old. No, no, I agree. I agree. But I think the. The movies are trading a little bit on the fact that, like, see, when he was younger and hotter, like, he was better. Like, he was. He wasn't evil yet. And then the version, you know, of Scrooge is the old, you know, like.
• 1:19:04
  Speaker B: Yeah, I guess.
• 1:19:05
  Speaker A: I don't know. I. I don't think it's, like, intentionally. I don't think it's like a. An explicit, like. I just think they are trading a little bit on kind of the idea of you want him to be sympathetic and you want to really like him, so just make him very attractive. Like, is, you know, kind of what they're doing there.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker B: It's effective. Speaking of kind of.
• 1:19:29
  Speaker A: Well, yeah, that's what I mentioned earlier.
• 1:19:31
  Speaker B: I thought it was really interesting that they gave all of the Cratchits historically accurate bad teeth.
• 1:19:37
  Speaker A: Yes. Yeah, they give them all. They, like, dirty them up.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:19:41
  Speaker A: Like, I don't know what those people's teeth. I think they're just their normal teeth or whatever. I think Richard Grant has pretty famously, like, those kind of teeth. But. But they definitely dirty them up and like make they like. They added some browns and stuff to make them a little more. Yeah, gross, for sure. A little detail that I thought was really cool is just the moment when the ghost of Christmas Present disappears and then the Ghost of Christmas yet to Come shows up. The shot of Scrooge in that scene is really cool. It's like a. I don't know what time of day it's supposed to be because everything, it's just kind of this blue like weird like dusky looking kind of lighting. But the shot of Scrooge, there's this big long like wall behind him that goes into the distance, but it's all these repeating archways.
• 1:20:37
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:20:38
  Speaker A: That like, it's very. It reminds me of like an MC Escher painting or something. Like. I don't know, I just thought that was a really cool. And it adds to kind of like the foreboding, like trippy nature of this whole interaction with the Ghost of Christmas. He had to come and all that sort of stuff. It just adds to the ominous nature of all of it. Kind of all of these dark repeating like infinite archways behind him. I just thought visually was very compelling. And I was wondering. I was also just curious. I'm like, I wonder where they shot that. That's a really interesting location because it looks like a real location. Like I don't think it's a set or anything. The size of it looked like it was actually they were filming it on location somewhere. So anyways, I thought that was cool.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker B: I thought the Ghost of Christmas yet to Come would have been scarier without the tiny pin prick eyes.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think it definitely would have been scarier. I think they just wanted to give him some level of like something to look at, something to gaze. And also he closes his eyes or his eyes go out at the end and that's like, oh, shoot, it's over or whatever. I guess is.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. How many people like in universe in this story, how many people on that Christmas Day do you think were like, oh my God, Scrooge has finally lost.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker A: Oh, all of them. Right? Every single one.
• 1:21:59
  Speaker B: Like how many women do you think saw their friends later that day and were like, martha, you will never believe who I saw drunk in the town square day.
• 1:22:09
  Speaker A: Every single one of them. Because obviously that's what will your reaction would be to the notorious town being like the nicest, like just over the top friendly person ever. You'd be like, what the is happening? That person is on drugs. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Before the final verdict we wanted to remind you you could do us a favor by heading over to Facebook, Instagram, Threads, Blue Sky, Goodreads, any of those places. Interact with us. We'd love to hear what you have to say about a Christmas Carol 1999. We will talk about that on our next prequel episode. You can also help us out by dropping us a five star rating and writing us a nice little review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever else you listen to our show. And finally, you can Support us@patreon.com thisfilmislit. Support us there for 2, 5 or 15 bucks a month. Get access to different things at each level, including bonus episodes starting at the $5 level, we just put out our special discussion on the Rankin Bass Christmas specials for December, so lots of good fun stuff there. Every month we put out a new bonus episode on whatever the heck we want to talk about, sometimes with input from our listeners like they voted on the rank and best specials this year, our patrons, that is. And at the $15 a month level you get access to priority recommendations where if there's something you would really like for us to talk about, you can recommend it if you support us at that level and we will add it into the queue as early as we can. Katie Time for the final verdict.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker B: Sentence passed.
• 1:23:39
  Speaker A: Verdict after.
• 1:23:41
  Speaker B: That's stupid. A Christmas Carol, presented by TNT is actually a really faithful adaptation. It makes a few small cuts and additions here and there, but for the most part it is just following the text, including a lot of really small and many would probably say unimportant details like Marley's glasses being propped up on his forehead. I did genuinely really like some of the changes that the movie made. I loved Scrooge begging his younger self to go after Belle. I loved his little moment with the hat in church. And I applaud the movie's decision to show us his Christmas Day spent with family after so many years alone. It's always a little difficult to make a call when a movie follows the source material so closely, because you end up with two texts that are just very similar. And I don't actually like doing ties or giving the title to the book just for being a book. But this is not one of those times. I'm giving this to the book because of three things that I actually did dislike about the movie. One the loss of the omniscient narrator is in fact a crime. Two going hand in hand with that, the loss of the objectively incredible opening line Marley was dead to begin with, and three Scrooge falling into his grave. That one's a little more personal. I just didn't like it. And for those reasons, I'm giving this one to the book. Merry Christmas and God bless us everyone.
• 1:25:14
  Speaker A: Oh goodness. Katie, what's next?
• 1:25:17
  Speaker B: We are taking our customary end of year week off so there will not be an episode out next week. We will be back in January and we will be kicking things off with Scott Pilgrim versus The World.
• 1:25:33
  Speaker A: Oh man.
• 1:25:34
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 1:25:35
  Speaker A: So excited. Finally get to talk about. I don't think we've done an Edgar Wright on this. I mean, we did bonus episodes. I don't think we. I don't think he's ever done a.
• 1:25:42
  Speaker B: I don't think so.
• 1:25:44
  Speaker A: So excited to talk about Scott Pilgrim versus The World Revisited. This will be my first time reading it. We are both reading it for this one. But yes, we will talk more about that on the next prequel episode. But kicking off 2026 with one of my favorite movies. It's been a while since I've seen it, but Scott Pilgrim versus The World is I think a masterpiece of modern action cinema. So that'll be in two weeks. Sorry, three weeks time we'll be talking about Scott Pilgrim versus The World. In two weeks time we'll be previewing Scott Pilgrim versus The World World and getting all of your feedback on A Christmas Carol presented by TNT starring Captain Jean Luc Picard. And in one week's time, we'll be celebrating Christmas and New Year's. So don't, don't be here in one week's time. Hope you all have a wonderful holidays. Until that time, guys, gals, non binary pals and everybody else, keep reading books, keep watching movies and keep being awesome. Sam.