Latest / Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood / 152. Kate Warne - America's First Female Detective

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152. Kate Warne - America's First Female Detective · Who Did What Now With Katie Charlwood

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Hello, delicious friends, and welcome to Who Did What Now?
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: The history podcast That's Not Your History Class with me
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: your host Katie charl with History Harlotte and reader of books.
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: First and foremost, I want to apologize for this week's
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: episode being like, it's completely my own fault. I got
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: bogged down dealing with so much other stuff that I
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: just didn't have this very in time, and I wasn't
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: going to put it with something that wasn't as good
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: or as well researched, you know. Effectively, I've kind of
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: started doing a series as a kind of I have
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: started doing a series on TikTok about concentration camps and
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: more specifically the Holocaust. Currently is the sort of area
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: that I'm in, and currently I think I'm on episode
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: I say episode, I'm on like video seven or eight
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: this point. And what I've done is I'm effectively just
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: giving overviews. So because of certain media platforms, I can
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: only make the video three minutes long, right, and so
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: I have to get each piece in there while providing
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: you know, as much information as possible is accurately and
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: as considerately and sensitively as possible, and so I'm trying
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: to cover all this stuff, and it's the elephant problem. Yeah,
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: So you can't eat an elephant in one sitting. You've
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: got to eat it piece by piece. So I'm trying
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: to provide this information and educating people in digestible chunks, right,
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: because all of this information that I'm trying to tell,
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: it's layers, right, it is layers of trauma in despair
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: and human cruelty, and it's just a terrible lasagna. Yeah,
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: it's a lasagna of trauma and despair. But you can
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: only eat one piece at a time. And so I'm
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: trying to share all this and there's a lot of
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: stuff that a lot of people don't know when I'm
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: effectively filling in the blanks, which I was kind of
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: aware of to begin with, but this really solidified it.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: And so I've been working on this and this I
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: started thanks to Laura High you can blame her right,
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: throwing her under the bus now, because we were chatting
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: about alligator Alcatraz and people were arguing about it, and
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I was like, well, well, actually, let me, you know,
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: put this into context and history doesn't repeat it rimes,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: And so I started making one video and then I
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: was like, oh, but this doesn't cover everything. And so
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: then I made a second video and then I was like, okay,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: but maybe I need to explain the system more. So
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: then I made a third video, which then led people
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: to ask more questions, and I was like, oh, okay, well,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: then this has to be a series because I'm not
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: going to cover all this in like a three minute video.
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: So between that, which involves me having to re research
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: and read dig into something I studied for seven years,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: and yet and yet here I am so not only
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: do I have that, but I've got a full time job,
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: I've got the book, I've got this, I've got two
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: medium sized children. I mean, my son has the same
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: height as Subrien, a carpenter, and he is very proud
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: of that at the age of ten. And so yeah,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: there's there's a lot. There is a lot happening, and
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: so I'm just trying to keep on top of everything.
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: And I just I just wasn't ready to have this done.
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: And because I'm dealing with such intense, dark topics and
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: the horrors of humanity, I'm trying to make sure that
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: i have like whimsy and levity in my life. So
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to do like lean into the joy a
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: little bit. And and I want to tell you but
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: my like one good deed that I did today, I'm
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: very happy about it. So I was walking home from
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: work and like, there's these trees with some swings in
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: it some kids put up and like these kids they
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: were trying to get this swing down because it got
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: caught in the branches and they're just like trying to
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: They're jumping and they're trying to do it, and they're
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: trying to work together as a team. So good for them.
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  Speaker 1: And I'm walking back and I'm holding my browlley, aren't
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: I strutting down the road like a merry fucking Poppins right?
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, Helloallo, what's on? Yell? Then? And I'll
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: it's stuck in the tree. And I was like, you
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: want to we hand? And so with my brawley, I
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: managed to unhook the rope of the swing from the
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: tree and get it down so they were able to
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: play on the swing again. And I was like, yeay,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: I helped the children, and I tottered on my way,
• 4:18
  Speaker 1: me and my wee brawley, and off I went. But
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking. You're thinking, Katie, it's been
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: almost five minutes. Quite your jabbil javel in fact me,
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  Speaker 1: in fact you, I will. But first we've got to
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  Speaker 1: get our source on. Our sources are The Pinks by
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  Speaker 1: Chris Ince, Kate Warren, First Female Detective by Catherine Ramsland,
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  Speaker 1: The Detective and the Somnibulist to the Murderer and the
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Fortune Teller by Allan Pinkerton, Lincoln and the Baltimore Plot
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one by Norma Barrett Cuthbert, The Spy of
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the Rebellion by Alan Pinkerton, Celebrate Women's History, America's first
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  Speaker 1: female PI by Erin Allen. At the Library of Congress Blogs,
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: we also have documents of newspapers like the Philadelphia Press,
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: and also our old favorites, History dot com and the
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: Smithsonian dot com. I also did comfortably good. Then let's begin.
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  Speaker 1: Kate Warren was the USA's first female detective. She was
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: a pioneer in her era, and she wopped so others
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  Speaker 1: could run. And I have been so excited to talk
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: about her, and I've wanted to talk about her for
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: so long, But a lot of the information on her
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: is spotty at best, and we're basically relying on other
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: people's accounts of her life, some newspaper articles, bits and pieces,
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: and we're just working from that. But she is in
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: like the list from my very first notebook when I
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: wrote down like people I wanted to talk about, and
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: she's in this dog eared page which is covered in
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: like tea and coffee stains and notes and scribbles, like
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: she's on that initial list and being like just this
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: amazing woman from history who has such little written about her,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: like really most of its fiction. And it's one of
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: those things where it would make a really really good
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: like TV shot or movie because you can just flesh
• 6:25
  Speaker 1: it out any way you want, and you can fill
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: those gaps with like historical like reasoning, like you can
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: just like join the dots and make the picture like
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: it's it's not that big of a deal as long
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: as you are consider it to the character of who
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: Kate Warren was. Now I heard a rumor, and by
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: that I mean I read an article that Join the
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: Rock Johnson like his production company was going to make
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: a movie about Kate warn starring Emily Blunt. Now all
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: of Emily Blunt, she's one of my favorite actresses. Oh
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: love us pieces. She wasn't very Bobbins. Also, she was
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: that really bitch in the Devil Wears product, and I
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: love that about her, Like I actually really like was
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: it the five year Engagement? She's good enough to be
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: Kate Warn, like you're not good enough, but she's not
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: appropriate to be Kate Warren. Because now I love Emily Blunt.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: She's a great actress, but I don't think she's right
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: for Kate Warn. So she's gonna be playing someone else
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: if this is actually happening, because like, no, I like
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: Emily Blunt. She's a great actress, but she's not right
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: for Kate Warren specifically, like when we first meet Kate Warren,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: she's twenty three ish and the majority of her escapades
• 7:41
  Speaker 1: happen when she's quite young, and so I think the
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: actress really needs to represent that. So I think someone
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: like mid to late twenties. They have to be pretty,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: there's a reason, but also like not stunning, right, Like
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: she has to be like good looking, but not like
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: but not like have Instagram face, you know, Like she
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: needs to look like she belongs in the time period
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: and preferably American. I think let's give them a chance
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: and also let them be good in accents like I think,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: I think that's closer to it, like if Annie Murphy
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: was a few years younger, like perfect Kate Warren, you
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, just perfect not I mean, she's
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Canadian and I love her. Okay, shut up. So anyway,
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: Kate warn was born sometime because she's a woman from
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: the past, and so we don't have a lot of
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: information about her. Now, we have one article from the
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: Philadelphia Press from the twenty first of March eighteen sixty eight. Right,
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: that's the background we have on Kate Warren's life. And
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: it says that she was born in eighteen thirty in
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  Speaker 1: Aeron Chumunk County in New York State, New York, to
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: Israel and Elizabeth Hobert, and that they were poor, like
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: her dad was a minister and she and her mum
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: was a homemaker and they were poor, and because her
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: family struggled financially, she had to go out and work
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: from a young age. Now it says that she got
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: married and was widowed quite young, right, And like every
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: other sore sort of revolves around this, like sometimes you know,
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: the dad's a minister or sometimes he's not. Sometimes the
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: mom's alive. Sometimes she's not. Sometimes there was a brother,
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: sometimes there isn't. Like it's very flaky, right, And this
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: is information that is gathered like in eighteen sixty right,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: So this is thirty years after her alleged birth. Now,
• 9:51
  Speaker 1: remember when I said that we don't actually know when
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: she was born, Like we don't know the month. We
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: actually don't know the year either, because she's the woman
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: from the past. What the fuck would we know this?
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: So yeah, we don't actually know, Like this source states
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: it is eighteen thirty and then there are a few
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: others that stayed at its eighteen thirty three, and most
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: of them, most of them lean towards eighteen thirty three
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  Speaker 1: as her actual year of birth. So let's just run
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: with that. We may as well what I mean, I mean,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: it's an air b question at this point, may as well.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: So in eighteen fifty six, kit warn is in Chicago
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: claiming she's a widow. Was she ever married, if she
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: had a husband, what did he do? We're on up,
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: We've got none of that information. Now, I will say
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: that given the context of the era in which she
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: is loving right as a woman, especially a younger woman,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: being a widow was a far more respectable position to
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: be in than if you were single, because she had
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: married and because there's like loads of social etiquette. There
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: was like a morning period and there's like respect for
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: the man who's longer, and you're like yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 11:06
  Speaker 1: So her being a widow not only granted her, you know,
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: a little bit more respectability, but it granted her with
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that freedom, so she had more movement to go around
• 11:19
  Speaker 1: without without being looked down upon by society. And so
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: in the summer of eighteen fifty six, Kate warn If
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: that was her real name, steps into the Pinkerton's National
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: Detective Agency on eighty Washington Street, Chicago, and she saunters
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: up to the desk of Alan Pinkleton himself and inquires
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: about a job. And he looks up and he sees
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: this pretty woman. He says that, you know, she's not
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: like super stunning, but she's very pretty and has an
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: honest face, and like she looks smart and like all
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: this stuff like near enough every description or depiction we
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: have of Kate warn Or men telling her that she's pretty,
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: They're like, oh, she's pretty, Like she's hot stuff. It's
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: like consistent, right, no matter where you go. That's what
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: they say, and it's like it's always pointed out as
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: if it's like, look like she's not a minga pao.
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: I was like, all right, well, thanks very much. And
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: so and so he sees this, you know, pretty young woman,
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: she's twenty three ish, and he's like, no, I'm not
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: looking for a cleaner or you know, a secretary. Like
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: I don't have any of those positions. See, he would
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: put out an ad in one of the Chicago papers
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: looking for detectives for his ever expanding detective agency. Basically
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: stuff like under the age of thirty five, must be honest,
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: mustn't be you know, one sandwich, sort of a picnic,
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: et cetera, et cetera. Now, Alan Pinkleton himself, he wasn't
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: born in the US. He was a Scottish immigrant. He
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: was a koopa, which he made barrels, right, that was
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: his job, He made barrels. And so he moved to
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: the US for a better life in the eighteen hundreds
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: and he went from making barrels to catching criminals. So
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: he's in this wee Illinois town and he's like, you know,
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: very locally doing his detective work and you know, catching
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: some crooks and so he works his way up to
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: be sheriff in Chicago, after which he opened his own
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: detective agency in By eighteen fifty three, it was arresting
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: criminals all over the USA, and because of that success,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: because it was doing so well and it was spread out,
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you know, across the US, that he just needed more detectives,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: and so he puts it an ad to get some in.
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  Speaker 1: And he's genuinely surprised when Kate tells him that she
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: wants to be a detective, and he's like, no, there
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: aren't lady detectives. That's not a thing, right, that's not
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: a thing. And she's like, well, because she plays to
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: her strengths here, like she's one smart cookie. She's like, well,
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: like I'm I'm of benefit to you, like I'm perfect,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: She literally says to him. Women would be most useful
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: in worming out secrets in many places which would be
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: impossible for a male detective. A women would be able
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: to befriend the wives and girlfriends have suspected criminals and
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: gain their confidence. Men become braggarts when they're around women
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: who encourage them to boast. Women have an eye for
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: detail and are excellent observers and now Alan Penguinton. He
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: begrudgingly agrees, but he's not entirely convinced. In fact, he
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: says it's not customed to hire woman detectives. But he's
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: still impressed with her like gumption that he's like, you
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: know what, sure, we'll give it a go. And so yeah,
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: he brings her in. And one of our first cases
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: actually is really interesting. It's all about the Adams Express.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: So the Adams Express was basically a courier company, and
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: so you had all of these railroads that had sprung
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: up like across the country, connecting one area to the next,
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: and the Adams Express Company would transport goods, money, mail.
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: It was actually one of the ways that anti slavery
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: literature made its way into the South because it was
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: reliable and it ensured that what you were sending was
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: going to get there. Like that was part of, you know,
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: the trust of the company, Like it was the job
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: it's supposed to do. Post it in the mail, the
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: mail gets there, that's how it's supposed to work. Okay,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: So they did that and that was supposed to go
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: that direction, and and yes, money was transported, it was
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: safely couriered from one location to the next location. And
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: some of these places that you would go to, depending
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: on the types of banknotes you had, you might have
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: to exchange the banknote of one state to a different
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: banknote of another one like it's it was very complicated.
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: But anyway, they were sending money down through down through
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: the tracks. Right now, in eighteen fifty four, ten thousand
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: dollars had been stolen from a locked case that was
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: in transit, right so Pingerton he looks into it and
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: he's like, this is an inside job. But the president
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: of the company was like, no, no, no, no, no.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: Everyone who works with me, you know, they none are
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: of ill repute, like they're all respectable men, Like, none
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: of the guys would do this. And he's like, yeah,
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: I don't think. So he's like this is suspicious. I'm
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: suspicious about this. And so anyway, it gets left. It
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: gets left alone for another two years. Then in eighteen
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: fifty six, the year that Kate Warren joins the Pinkerton
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: National the detective Agency, forty thousand dollars was stolen on
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: the same route. And so the vice president of the
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: company comes forward and he's like desperate, He's desperate, and
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: he's like I need you to do something. This is
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: forty thousand dollars, right, So this is then money. If
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: you stole forty thousand dollars today, like it would be
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a big deal, right, ten thousand dollars today still a
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: big deal, Like you would be noticed right back then
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: this is an equivalent of like maybe half a million
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: to a million dollars, Like it's it's a lot of money. Like,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: not to give criminals any ideas, right, Like I know,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: I know, I'm I can just hear Sahar in the
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: background and going kidding no, but yeah, it's yeah, not
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: to give criminals any ideas. But if you're gonna be
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: stealing money, you steal a little bit of money. You
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: don't steal a big bit of money. You steal a
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: little bit of money at a time, like you ciphon
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: it out. Like that's what all of those like clever
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: accountants do. They just slowly steal money so that you
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: don't notice you're stealing them. I think that was in
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: an episode of Scandal as well, like micro micro not
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: transgressions transactions when it was like oh, thirty cents in
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: like fifty two cents and there's like small nominal amounts
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: that you wouldn't notice and they would just kind of go,
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: and so that was part of it. But yes, no,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: this person steals fifty thousand dollars in total, which is
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: like just crazy money. It's crazy money. And so Alan
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Pinkerton himself, along with agent George Bangs, they traveled down
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: to Montgomery, Alabama to the Trained depot where this, like
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: the money had originated. And again the vice president is like,
• 19:37
  Speaker 1: this could not be an inside job because the office manager,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: Nathan Maroney, was watching the money carefully and would have
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: noticed if anything suspicious had occurred. And so Alan Pinkleton's like,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: that man stole the money. That's your man. And the
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: VP's like, no, it can't be that man. He is
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: beyond approach. And so they're like okay, okay, and so
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: they dig a little deeper into Maroney and turns it out,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: fun fact, he was a treasurer for a circus until
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: the circus went bankrupt. One would assume not the best
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: treasurer in the world, because don't they work for peanuts.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: A yeah, yeah, yeah, Listen, they're getting some classic comedy
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: in this. I've had a tough week. So Moroni is
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: suspected of embezzling the circus, but like he wasn't charged
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: or anything like that. So, yeah, the forty thousan dollars,
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: it goes missing in nineteen fifty six. We had another
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: ten thousand go missing in not nineteen fifty six, that's wrong,
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: that's a century later, eighteen fifty six. And then we
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: have the ten thousand that's missing in eighteen fifty four.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: Now now they don't really find much out until eighteen
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: fifty eight. Right, So Nathan Maroni he goes on holiday
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: travels along the East coast, and the pinkers and agents,
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the men who are following him, they're like, hey, he's
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: living away bit of the high life. Like he's spending
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: money as he's traveling, you know, along this way, which
• 21:29
  Speaker 1: money should not have because he's only like an office
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: manager here. He's staying in like flashy hotels, he's betting
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: on horse races. He's not winning all these bets for
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: horse races, and he's like buying some fancy clothes, right,
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And so the Pinkertins are like, this dude is super guilty, right,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: And and because they're like he's spending too much money,
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: they just have him arrested. They just get him arrested.
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: They're like, na, arrest this man for spending money, which
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: is not not really a lot of evidence or I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: feel like enough evidence to arrest someone. But there we go.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: I say, they got him arrested. They actually arrested him themselves, because,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: like the Pinkerton agents say, like it was held in
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: such high esteem, it was seen as a noble profession
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: of the time, and there wasn't really a huge like
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: police force necessarily, and so they're just like, we've arrested him,
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: and everyone's like cool. I guess Meanwhile, like back in Montgomery, Alabama,
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: people are like, what the heck, I can't believe you
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: arrested this guy. And so they raise enough money to
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: bail him out of jail, and the detectives like they're
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: well enough aware that they don't know they don't have
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: enough to like like like put him in the slammer,
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: and so they're rain a sting operation. They have him
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: arrested again and he gets placed in a jail cell
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: along with a Pinkerton agent, John White. Now John White's
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: lawyer in this little scenario is George bangs another Pinkerton agent.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So they're basically like being like undercover. They're like being
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: like spas and they're trying to gain information that way. Meanwhile,
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: Nathan's wife, Belle Maroney, she's staying in Philadelphia, so she's
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: staying there. She's like near family and round about this time,
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: this guy, mister DeForest, also a Pinkerton agent. He is
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: very handsome, he's very suave, and he just starts like
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: paying a lot of attention to her, and it's very
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: clear that he's paying a lot of attention to her.
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: And so while this is happening, she meets a whig
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: called missus ember missus Embert, So who is who is
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: Kate worn in disguise? She's shown up in Philadelphia. She's
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: a widow and she'd spent a lot of time in Montgomery, Alabama,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: just sort of getting information and finding out like what
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: she needs to know. And so she befriends in Philadelphia.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: She makes sure that she sees her right with big banknotes,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: like very large banknotes, having to like change them in
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: the bank and other places. Like she's just sort of
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: making herself known and so they become acquainted. Meanwhile, because
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: of all this, Nathan Maroni, he's like someone's trying to
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: get to my wife and the fellas are in the
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: jail with him white. He's like, oh, let me get
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: let me get my lawyer. He knows a guy. He
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: knows a guy. But you're gonna need some dough to
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: like deal with that. And so Maroney's like, Okay, great,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: I gotta call my wife. So he calls his wife
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: and he's like, I need to get my hands in
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: the money. And she's like, maybe, I guess maybe, so
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: Belle Maroney. She ends up confiding in her new lovely friend,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: Madam Imbell. I don't know why I called her missus earlier,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: but it's Madam Imbell. And she tells her that she
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: is married to a forger right and lives daily in
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: the misery of his waistro life. And she ends up
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: telling her dear new friend that all of the stolen
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: money was buried in her sister's basement just outside of Philadelphia,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: and so like she tells her exactly exactly where it is,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: and so a Pinkerton agent he is dispatched to go
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: and like find and collect the money. But but when
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: they send him, they have him followed, They have people
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: tell him to make sure he didn't steal like the
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: money for himself. He's like, we trust you, just not
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: that much. So they end up finding the money, like
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: there's a satchel full of money, and they get like
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: most of it back, like there's a decent amount there
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: that's still there. And so yeah, maroney, he goes to
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: jail like he's done. You know, he gets convicted of
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: ten years hard labor in Montgomery, Alabama. So like that's
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: that's not that's not the best outcome for him, But
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: tough luck, because you stole crazy amount of money, dude,
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: crazy amount of money. And whatever money was there was
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: returned to like the Adams Express, so that they could
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: put it where it needed to go to pass it
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: on to the person who was supposed to receive it.
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: So another thing I want to mention about about the
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: Adams Express is that it was such a trusted courier.
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: Like again, the abolitionists were using it to send like
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: anti slavery literature down, but unenslaved man posted himself like
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: he put himself in a crate and sent himself to
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: the Northern States where he was free, and just like
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: that like that was a fun one, Like that's some
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: good that's some good history there, and so that all happens,
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: and I think the Adams Express, it's like not it's
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: like not like a courier company anymore. But it's like
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: like one of those Fortune five hundreds. It's like it's
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: like it still exists, but not in the same in
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: the same vein like how I think it's like how
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: American Express is now like a credit card that many
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: countries struggle to take for some reason, but it is
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: what it is. I don't know your financial laws. I
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: barely know my financial laws. Okay, okay that and your
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: I'm doing my best. But my favorite part of this
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: story is that Madame m Bell and Belle for Maroney
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: and Belle's daughter Flora Moroney, they moved to Chicago together.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: They move in together in a house owned by Alan Pinkerton.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Tell me this movie doesn't ride itself. These women just
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: end up moving in together, like after the situation after
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: her husband's peaked away, like the wow, why what roommates?
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: Best friends? Perhaps perhaps perhaps between the lines those eyes
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: across those teeths. So what I'm saying, So what I'm
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: saying say, And with that, I think it's about time
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: for away book. Kate warn was renowned for being a
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: master of justies like Count Oloff, except better and actual disguises,
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: and like one of her other famous escapades was when
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: she goes undercover as a fortune teller. Now remember this
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: is the eighteen hundreds, the mid eighteen hundreds, if you will,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: so imagine, if you will, racism, Like it's very roma inspired.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: I'm not saying the G word. I'm not doing it. Okay,
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: unless that is someone's name, like their birth given name
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: or their stage name or whatever they call them. Yeah,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: not happening, Okay, not happening. So it's very much she's
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: there with like all of the ecouterments that one would
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: imagine that somebody from the mid eighteen hundreds would adorn
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: themselves in if they were pretending to be a fortune teller.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: And this is I realized earlier, this is my Audrey
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: Hubbind voice. I can't, I simply can't. Like she's such
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: a particular way of speaking. But that's because she was.
• 30:10
  Speaker 2: Have fun to have Belgian. She was born.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: Belgian, Like that is such a weird thing inside note.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: I'll probably cover Audrey Hepburn at some point, But like
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: people talk about how slim she was and how that
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: was like a goal but everyone seems to forget that
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: the reason that she was so slim throughout her life
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: was because she suffered from extreme malnutrition during the Second
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: World War, Okay, during the Nazi occupation, like she was starved.
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: But anyway back to Kate Warne. So she ends up
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: being sent to this building which is hired out by
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Alan Pinkleton for her to perform to present herself as
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: a fortune heller. And Kate she does her research right,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: she knows everything that she needs to know before she
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: goes in. But you may be asking why why is
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: Kate warn you know, pretending to be a fortune teller
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: when poor George his head is bashed in and the
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: culprit gets away with one hundred and thirty thousand dollars.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: Here's the thing. It's the eighteen hundreds, and everyone is
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: obsessed with the supernatural, like you see it all through
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: like Victorian all the way through to like Gilded Age America,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Like people were believing in the supernaturals, specifically like you
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: would have seances and arise in occultism and mediums were
• 32:17
  Speaker 1: like a big thing. And so this is just another
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: extension of that. And this is a period of time
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: where they genuinely had belief in an obsession with death,
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: and this belief with fortune tailors was this understanding of
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: the universe. Now I've said it before and I'll say
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: it again. What's classy of your witch but trashy of
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: your pah belief in the supernatural? Right, Like everyone at
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: this point is like obsessed with this. Right, you have
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: mediums and fortune tailors are plenty, and so kit Warn
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: she goes and studies how to be a fortune tailor,
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: and then she also does her research because she fucking
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: knows what she's doing, and also because people are more
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: likely to confide in a fortune tailler. It's that sort
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: of confidence trick that there's a type of bias where
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: someone says something and you sort of agree to it
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: and you add to it because you think they already
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: know the answer, so you're just like confirming it to
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: them as opposed to just like telling them. So there
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: is this plot, shall we say to poison a captain?
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: So Alan Pinkerton he writes out this like building so
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: that she can set up as a fortune taeller, right,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: and so as she's like posing as this really good
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: fortune tailor, she hosted the sister of Captain Sumner Anne there. Now,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: of course she did her fucking research. She knows what
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: she's talking about.
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: And so el el Lucier if fortune, teller of great Renown,
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: the seventh daughter of a seventh daughter, and the only
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: living descendant of Ermys the Egyptian to what travel through
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: all the known parts of the world, reading the full
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: tunes and homeskips of dignitaries, heads of states, and anyone
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: worthy of the time.
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: It's not like my Audry Hepburn voice. It's terrible, but.
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: It's like, oh, jeb, she was half bench have Dutch
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: and she was born Belgium, and that is why she talks.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: I can't. I simply can't. And I realized that that
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: voice was like taken from that and I was like,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: oh dear, it's like he's very hard in the throat.
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: But like sidebar. People are obsessed with Audrey Hepburn's slumness,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: and it's really difficult to have to remind people consistently
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: that the reason Audrey Hepburn was so slim throughout her
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: life was because she suffered malnutrition. During the Second World War.
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: Like her co she was invaded and she suffered from
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: alnutrition like she starved and her body never recovered. Like
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: that's not a goal one should have. And also I
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: think it shows a little to respect to what do
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: you hear from went anyway, el L Lucille.
• 35:19
  Speaker 2: I have given her this voice because I have decided
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: that it is a more respectful voice than the clearly
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: racist was she would have had when she showed up
• 35:28
  Speaker 2: at this Summer's.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: And so she shows up in Chicago and she is like,
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: there's marketing, there's like fan fare, It's like here she
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: is right because Captain J. M. Sumner he gets violently
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: ill and he's like, that's weird, that's suspicious, and he's
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: convinced his sister Annie has something to do with it.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: So Annie ends up spending her time with L. L. Lucille,
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: who again probably adorned in all of the like the
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: turbine and the show, and is doing one of those
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: weird voices and wiggling her fingers in a weird way.
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: And it's one of those confidence tricks right where I
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: think it's just like confirmation bias is part of it.
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: So basically instead of confirming, you're just like, you know,
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: agreeing to what is being said, you're just you know,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: agree with what's the being told, you're confirming and you're
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: adding to you know, you're just giving that extra information.
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: And so Annie there she becomes a big fan of
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: L L Lucile and missus Annie there, like she's a
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: widow and she's just like.
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: Really impressing Annie there because she did her research, like
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: she's no film, has learned everything. And so she goes
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: in there and she has answers to questions that Annie
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: didn't know she wanted to know, and she has all.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: This information and so eventually she confides to her to
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: the Great Divinator that her married lover, mister pat Moore,
• 37:21
  Speaker 4: Like it's very Agatha Christie, her married lover convinced her.
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: To end the life of his wife, right and also
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: kill her brother.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: Like and so when missus pat Moore died allegedly of dysentery, like,
• 37:45
  Speaker 1: mister pat Moore he's a hotelier, right, he has like
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: big money. He's from Ohio, like he's got cash, and
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: he promises Annie this big new life and they're gonna
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: get married. She's gonna teach his children and like become
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: his wife. Unfortunately he's still married. So when she shows
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: up and she's got like a massive like emerald engagement ring.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: It's like, oh, this is this is odd. And then Patmore,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: missus Patmore, she dies of dysentery like suddenly right, and
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: so she shows up there's the fortune titler Ela Lucille,
• 38:28
  Speaker 1: and she's got like all her hair is flowing down,
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: it's like reaching her waist. She's in like long skirts
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: and Embelli slees like she's she's dressed as one would
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: imagine she would. And people were paying like ten bucks
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a time to have their fortune told. Because here's here's
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: one of the things what's classy if you're rich, in
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: trashy if you're poor. An obsession with the supernatural. So
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: during this period of time from like the Victorian era
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: like through the Gilded Age, like depending on which side
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: of the Atlantic you're on, there is this like obsession
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: with death and this sort of even greater obsession with
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the supernatural. And I've covered this before in my talk
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: The Victorian rooined everything. But so this whole thing just
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: ends up coming to a head where like she knows everything,
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: she's amazing, and eventually Annie confides in her this whole
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: plot about, you know, the murder of missus pat Moore
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: and how he wanted her to kill her brother, and yeah, yeah,
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: el Ucier grat the guests wide open and mister Pat
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: Moore he is convicted of Missus Pat Moore's murder and
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: for the murder of his wife. He spends ten years
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: in prison. So Captain GM Summer survived another day. So
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Annie she had actually returned to her brother's farm and
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: she sort of head out there for a while, and
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: then her husband Henry there, who she thought like had
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: died at sea, had not. He'd gone missing, but he
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: came back and then the two of them ended up
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: moving to China after that. I don't know, but yeah,
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: this whole situation was like so like intense for Kate.
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: Warn that she was like never going to be a
• 40:19
  Speaker 1: fortune teller again, Like that just wasn't anything that she
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: wanted to do. Now, before we get to the big
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: case that you were all waiting for, for the thwarting
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: of the Baltimore plot, the assassination attempt at Abraham Lincoln,
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: the one that didn't take, I am going to tell
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: you about one more case regarding Kate Warren. So in Mississippi,
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: there was a terrible case, a case of murder and
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: also an additionally a bank robbery. So George Gordon, he's
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: a clerk at the city bank in Atkinson, Mississippi, and
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: usually at night he would lock up and this was
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: known like this is a known fact in this town.
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: He would just lock up the bank at night. And
• 41:05
  Speaker 1: while he was closing up one night, someone bashed his
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: head in and stole one hundred and thirty thousand dollars,
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: which is over five million dollars in today's money. It's
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: like five million, eighty nine thousand something something something because
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: I checked the inflation, Okay, I checked the numbers, and
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: it is it is a lot. So this guy he's there,
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: his body is there, and there's not a lot of
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: clues other than you know, corpse and missing money. Now,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: the scene is horrific. It is a very bloody scene.
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: Because the man no longer has a cranium. It's mainly
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: pudding based, okay, like that is what you're looking at
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: in this scenario. And so in his corpsey hand, I
• 42:01
  Speaker 1: feel like there was a better way to phrase that,
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: but in his curled up Rigor Morta's hand, there is
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: a one hundred dollars Bank of Georgia banknote, like it's
• 42:14
  Speaker 1: all bloodied and whatnot, but he's got a firm grip
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: on it. They also find something sort of smoldering in
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: the fireplace. Now there's like some charred buttons on it.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: But after that, like we're not not really sure about
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: what it is. Now there is like another twisted sort
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: of piece of paper which turns out to be a
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: bill sound by Alexander Drysdale. Now every time I see Drysdale,
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: I can't help but think of Dunesdale from Monty Python.
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: So like there's just this just this clerk, a giant
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: hedgehog coming in to deposit as catch at the end
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: of the day. So like this county clerk, Alexander Drysdale,
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: he's like, no one we're doing out of hours deposits,
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: like after hours, he deposits the money, and it's very
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: normal for him, very typical. But of course his name
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: is written on a paper at the crime scene and
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: as such, it's like it's like, it's not it's not
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: a mystery that Scooby Doo need to come in and solve,
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's fine, right, I feel like we
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: can follow this lead. And so that's what the Pinkletons do.
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: They send him one of their agents, Timothy Webster, and
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: he is playing this I say playing. He's posing as
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: this influential wealthy man from Baltimore. I don't know why
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: I gave him his voice. And so he shows up
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: at the Atkinson City Hotel and he goes under the
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: name John Andrews, like because it's a very non name,
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: you know. And so he shows up and he becomes friends,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: you know, with Alexandro Drysdale Drisdal. And after a while,
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: this man, this wealthy businessman, John Andrews, his daughter joins them,
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: Missus Potter, and who is miss Missus Potter. It's kid
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: want in disguise? Yeah she is. And so she shows
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: up and she becomes like acquainted with mister and Missus Drysdale.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: And so missus Drysdale she's like, oh, who is this
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: lovely young lady And she's like, I am the daughter
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: of this man. We are age appropriately separated, because like
• 44:39
  Speaker 1: she's in her twenties at this point, you know, she's
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: still quite young. And so she ends up gaining the
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: confidence of Missus Drysdale, who says that she's really worried
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: because mister Drysdale, like he's not sleeping, like he's like
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: on edge. She's kind of like morbid and melancholy, like
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: very melancholy, like Antonio in The Merchant of Venice, if
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: you know, you know, And so she's like, hey, he's
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: not doing great. Oh that's also that's kind of what happens,
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: like if you do something really bad, or if you
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: believe you've done something really bad, and there's gonna be consequences.
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: Lack of sleep is one of the one of the
• 45:24
  Speaker 1: consequences of that. And so she's like, oh, that's that's
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: not great. So Missus Drysdale like she's confiding in her,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: and so Kate Warren, she's hanging out as Missus Potter.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: She's hanging about and she prefers another lady nearby, Missus
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Franklin Rogers, and they decide to go racing their horse
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: across a country path and then, oh, in a crazy
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: random happenstance, Missus Potter falls from her horse right and
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: is late in juriled and you'll never guess what happens.
• 46:02
  Speaker 1: Who lived nearby but the Drysdales, And so she's brought
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: to the Drysdales abode and they're like this young lady
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: is injured. She needs to rest, and they're like, okay,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: let's bring her in. We know how she is. She
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: is that kind young daughter of mister Andrews. Forgot his
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: name for a second. Right, So, not long after Kate's
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: in the house, mister Drysdale starts seeing an apparition. Right,
• 46:33
  Speaker 1: he starts seeing ghosties. Right, He's seeing ghosties in his house.
• 46:37
  Speaker 1: They look like the corpse of the Duodoo is there,
• 46:40
  Speaker 1: and he's just like freaking out. Basically they're doing one
• 46:46
  Speaker 1: of those like Ama Dais machines to make him like
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: like a bit loope. And so there's this ghosties he's
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: seeing ghostis, right, and then what they also did is
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: like she'd come out night and just splatter like blood
• 47:04
  Speaker 1: or like pretend blood, like mysteriously there's blood. And so
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: mister Drysdale like it starts freaking him the fuck out,
• 47:17
  Speaker 1: and so he starts like sleepwalking. And so as he's sleepwalking,
• 47:24
  Speaker 1: and he's like just leaving the building, like Pinkerton's are
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: just following him like all around, and so like they're
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: checking out the creek on his property, and in this
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: creek they find a box. In this box are gold
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: coins and other sort of bits and pieces that have
• 47:46
  Speaker 1: been stolen from the bank. So like it's not it's
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: not enough to convict him of both, like the murder
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: and the theft. But it's like, yeah, they couldn't really
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: use it as evident because technically that's entrapment. So they
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: were like, oh, no, I guess what are we gonna do?
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: And so effectively they just kept like pressing him, like
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: until he managed to get like Pinkerton gets a warrant
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: for Drysdale's arrest, and so Pinkerton and the sheriff they
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: just start like interrogating him. Like, so they arrest him, right,
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: they're arresting him for the theft, right, but they tell
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: him that they are arresting him for the murder of
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: George Gordon, and so Drysdale he screams and faints, and
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: after he gets up, they take him to the bank
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: where the murder had been committed. And who is waiting
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: for him at the bank a ghost. There's a boaking
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: ghost there. They've made a little ghost it right, and
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: he ends up confessing to the crime. His darors were
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: like pressuring him for money. He was like broke and
• 49:14
  Speaker 1: needed it, and so he had withdrawn all of his
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: money from the bank and then requested a loan. And
• 49:20
  Speaker 1: so like George, she's you know, you know, kepting it
• 49:23
  Speaker 1: all the money. And as he's kepting all the money,
• 49:27
  Speaker 1: like mister Drysdale, he just like fucking whacks him in
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: the head. So he does that, steals the money, steals
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: the money from the vault, and it's just like this
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: big confession. And so like after he you know, tells
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: the truth, he's like asks the sheriff for like a
• 49:44
  Speaker 1: moment alone. He says he wants to write a note
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: to his wife because you know, if he's going to
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: go to prison, he just wants to read to her.
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: And so like as they're walking out and closing the
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: door and leaving him behind to write his note, Drysdale says,
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: tell my wife, I feel better for her having confessed.
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: And then as the door closes, they hear a baton.
• 50:06
  Speaker 1: So basically they left a gun and there with him,
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: and he just ended his life. I'm gonna go up
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: in a lamir and be like, that's not the most
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: ethical of things I've ever heard. I'm just gonna I'm
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: just gonna say it now. I'm just saying this would
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: work very well as like an episodic TV show, like
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: a mini series. Even you could just like throw in
• 50:33
  Speaker 1: another couple of like old timy cases and just have
• 50:36
  Speaker 1: Kate warning there, like just for fun, because like based
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: on a true story, doesn't need to be exactly a
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: true story, but like for the most part, or a
• 50:44
  Speaker 1: three part mini series or a four part minute like
• 50:47
  Speaker 1: this could have it. The Abraham Lincoln one could be
• 50:50
  Speaker 1: two episodes. It's all I'm saying. Anyway, President elect Abraham
• 50:56
  Speaker 1: Lincoln was supposed to be traveling through Baltimore to go
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: to his inauguration. There was like an eleven whistle stop
• 51:04
  Speaker 1: from like Springfield, Illinois all the way up to Baltimore,
• 51:08
  Speaker 1: and there were whispers, there were whispers of a Baltimore
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: plot of secessionists who want to assassinate Abraham Lincoln. Not
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: at the time, there was like loads of rumors that
• 51:22
  Speaker 1: you know, people were going to try and assassinate Lincoln
• 51:24
  Speaker 1: the president elected. It was all over the place, right,
• 51:27
  Speaker 1: But this was one that Pinkerton believed to be like
• 51:32
  Speaker 1: on the up and up. So when it comes to
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: Abraham Lincoln's election, right, the sixteenth president, the first Republican president,
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: so basically his victory was only because of supporting the
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: West and in the north, like in the fifteen Southern
• 51:50
  Speaker 1: slave states, no ballots at all were cast for him
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: in ten of them, and he won only two out
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: of nine hundred and ninety six counties in the Southern states. Right,
• 52:06
  Speaker 1: So his victory in electoral college basically one of the
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: votes he had one hundred and eighty votes and the
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: other three candidates had like between them, like split between them,
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty three votes. And so he's heading
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: from Springfield to Washington, not Baltimore. He has to go
• 52:24
  Speaker 1: through Baltimore, right, And so in order to find out
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: what's going on with this murder plot, like they're genuinely
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: worried and like his bodyguard like wants to give wants
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: to give Lincoln like a gun, like a pistol and
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: a boy knife. And Pinkerton's like, no, don't give the
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: president a gun and a boy knife, Like what are
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: you doing? And he said, He's like, let's find out
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: what's going on. And so Kate Warren is set under
• 52:58
  Speaker 1: cover to the South and so she shows up in
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: the Petty Barnum Hotel as a widow, a widow, a
• 53:08
  Speaker 1: wealthy widow who like somehow manages to float in and
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: out of Southern society like parties, which is no mean
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: feat because there are rules in etiquette to eighteenth century
• 53:20
  Speaker 1: life at the best of times, and this is a
• 53:24
  Speaker 1: hard crowd to break. And so she shows up and
• 53:27
  Speaker 1: she's either known as missus Barley. She puts on like
• 53:30
  Speaker 1: this southern accent, and she claims that she's from like
• 53:35
  Speaker 1: Alabama because she spent so much time there before that
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: she knows so much, like she really knows so much
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: about Alabama, and so she's like, I'm just a widow
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: from Alabama. I don't know if that's a good accent.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: She also went under the name of missus Cherry, which
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: just makes me think of my name's Cherry, Cherry maror
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: Cherry's Mama. And so she would show up with all
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: these parties and balls in the best of pons, wearing
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: a black and white cockade pinned to her gown. Now,
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: what is a cocade, you may be asking, Well, a
• 54:09
  Speaker 1: cocade is like, you know, one of those ribbons they
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: pin on to you when you weighing something, or it's
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: got your birthday on it, or my personal favorite, the
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: suffragettes had them, Like it was basically this little symbol
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: of of like support for like secessionists, Like it was
• 54:31
  Speaker 1: a way of showing that she was on like the
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: slave state side, because like she was openly wearing it,
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: and she was she would hang around and listen to stories.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Men would brag to her and she would just pay
• 54:45
  Speaker 1: a lot of attention. And so this is where she
• 54:48
  Speaker 1: finds out the plant to assassinate Lincoln. Right, So here's
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: here's the whole whole thing is that because the original story,
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: right was that the secessionists we're gonna attack the railroad
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: in Maryland because Alan Pinkerton in eighteen sixty one, he's
• 55:09
  Speaker 1: initially hired by Samuel H. Fielden, who's the president of Philadelphia,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: Wilmington and Baltimore Railroad, because he's like the secessionists, like
• 55:18
  Speaker 1: they keep saying they're gonna blow up the railroad. And
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: so after all of this like investigation, they realize it's
• 55:25
  Speaker 1: not just the railroad, it's an assassination plot. And so
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: missus m Balle is like hanging out with a secession
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: is showing up with these parties and she is founding
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: out the inflammation. So basically what the secessionists do is
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: they like have a draw and if you pick like
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: the right card, like you get the opportunity to assassinate Lincoln.
• 55:55
  Speaker 1: And so that's like the idea of it. And like
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: I think seven or people draw the card, and I
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: think that's partly for culpability, but partly because to give
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: more like chances. So Lincoln he hears about this, and
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: he's like, I'm not stopping. I'm not changing my plans.
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: Because here's the thing. All roads like or train tracks,
• 56:21
  Speaker 1: I should say, all of them lead to like through Baltimore,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: like they lead through like he had no option, like
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: he was going to Baltimore one way or the other,
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: which is like wild. And so the thing is there's
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: like thirty miles that she needs to go, like they
• 56:44
  Speaker 1: need to go in order to like get from one
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: train to the other. He had to go from Calvert
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: Street to Camden Yard Station and so that's like a
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: mile by horse drawn carriage, Like that's that's the distance.
• 56:57
  Speaker 1: And that's not entirely because that's where everyone thinks that
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: they're gonna get them. And because like the President Elect's
• 57:06
  Speaker 1: journey was like printed and people were expecting him to
• 57:09
  Speaker 1: go through at a certain time. The conspirators believed that
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: this would be the perfect opportunity in which to assassinate Lincoln.
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: And everyone was saying, like, you know, do this to
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: protect yourself or do that. They're like, you're gonna die. Effectively,
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: everyone was like, sorry, good luck being assassinated on the
• 57:28
  Speaker 1: way to your inauguration. Man. They're like, guess that's just
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: how it is. And so the plan is, like one
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: of these conspirators, an Italian barber, like he is from Italy,
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Cipriano Verandini. He's like, this is a great plan. We'll
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: create a diversion, like it's based on like one of
• 57:49
  Speaker 1: the revolutions in Italy. It's just a home mess actually,
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: but anyway, so he's like, we'll cause a diversion, we'll
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: start fires, and then we'll make like all this happened,
• 58:02
  Speaker 1: and then then we will like distract people from there.
• 58:09
  Speaker 1: Everyone will come to us, the police will come to us,
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: which will give the real like killers. It'll give them
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to go and shoot Lincoln, right blah ba
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: ba ba, Like that's the plan, right and so and
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: so they have to like come up with an idea
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: of how to make this work, like Lincoln doesn't even
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: believe the Baltimore plot until William Seward like the city,
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: like I think he's going to be secretary of State,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: Like he's going to be Lincoln's secretary of State, until
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: he goes up and tells him he's like there's a plot,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: like you're gonna die. And that's when Abraham Lincoln finally listens.
• 58:50
  Speaker 1: And so they end up like getting getting in this
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: plan and to get and the Pinkertons, and so they
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: decide the best way to get him through Baltimore is
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: with Kate by his side. So she is undercover as
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: MB Missus Balle and she buys four tickets in Philadelphia
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: for a sleeping berth. Right, So basically there's a sleeping
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: carriage in this train, and it's she basically bribes the guy,
• 59:24
  Speaker 1: the conductor, with like fifty cents, right, because like the
• 59:30
  Speaker 1: way these carriages work is like you pay for your
• 59:32
  Speaker 1: sleeper train, but like it's a first come, first serve,
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: like you don't preserve the actual carriage. And so she's like,
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: I need this carriage for like me and my invalid brother,
• 59:43
  Speaker 1: like he's so frail, her very tall, hunched over envalid brother, right,
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: So she ends up like securing it, and she keeps
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: this room for for and so herself Lincoln, like Ward
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Hill Layman and Alan Pinkerton, they get this this like
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 1: sleeper carriage, and like it is wild because everyone no
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: one would expect really for like this woman to be
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: his bodyguard. Like it's basically like she's the first secret
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: service because this is pre secret service. And so she is,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: you know, hunched over this hunched old man, like bringing
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: him on to the train, and so he is hunched over.
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 1: He's wearing an old coat, a soft hat, and a shawl.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Now he he's known specifically for wearing all those like
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: stove pipe hats, you know what I mean. And so
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: he's there looking very much not like he licks. And
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 1: so he's like on this sleeper carriage. Meanwhile, as he
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: rests through the night and he sleeps, not really fitting
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 1: on it because he's so bloody tall. Right. Kate Warn
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: stays up all night. She has a revolver on her
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: doesn't want to use it. I mean she will if
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: she has it, because of course she will. It's Kate Warn.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: But she's there and she stays up all night ensuring
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 1: that nothing happens to the president elect, and this like
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 1: a mile between the two stations. Whatever Kate Warren does, however,
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 1: she makes this work right. The sleeper carriage is unwinched
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 1: from the train, hooked onto a horse and cart and
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: driven through the streets and then attached to the other train.
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 1: So like one of the reasons this works is that
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 1: everyone was expecting, because of his itinerary, that Lincoln would
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 1: travel through on a later date, whereas he was traveling
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 1: like a day or day or two before, and so
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: people were expecting him to travel on a different day.
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: Plus he wasn't traveling in like like a big fancy
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 1: train like a presidential carriage. He was like on a
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: regular carriage with like Joe Bloggs, you know. And so
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 1: when he is delivered to Washington, like Pinkerton like sends
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: a telegraph and I shit you not it says Plums
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 1: has nuts, because that was his code name. It was plums.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: Plums has nuts. Now I don't know why, but I
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 1: have imagined a squirrel in a stove top hat plums
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: has nuts. And that is him, Like not the eagle
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: has landed, not none of that. But there he is,
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: like he's there, and so and so there that that happened,
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: that happened. She was there, and I feel like maybe
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: she should have been guarding him when he went to
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: the theater. It's all I'm saying. I feel like less
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: issues would have happened. And also because Kate Warren had
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 1: stayed up overnight, Like Alan Pinkerton said that, this is
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: the reason that the motto of the Pinkertons was we
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 1: never sleep right because of this event. And what's interesting
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: is like there's another like detective agency like in in town,
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: and they just start like bullshitting and saying that it
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: wasn't the Pinkertons who were at you know, protecting the president,
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 1: it was it was them. And so in retaliation to
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: like this pamphlet that goes out, Alan Pinkerton writes his
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: own stuff, right, and he's like, oh, well, you know
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: who else was there? Kate Warren? Right, the Kate Warren.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 1: Do you want to argue with that? Maybe you've heard
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 1: of her? And they were like no, no, it's fine,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 1: it's fine, it's fine, never mind where we are wrong.
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 1: And like Abraham Lincoln, like he says that you know that,
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: oh the sees something really nice things about Kate and
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 1: how she's like lovely and you know, surprising that she
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 1: was protecting him, but good for her. And Kate WARN's
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 1: like he's very homely and tootle for the sleeping beds,
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: which is like true. But also, Kate, you don't have
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: to kick a man when he's down. His name's Plumps. Okay,
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: we're good, and so over the years, Kate ends up
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: really like gaining the trust of Alan Pinkerton, and like
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: a lot of the time when they were going undercover,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: they'd go undercover as husband and wife because it's very believable,
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: you know, and it becomes like, but there's a theory
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: that they had like a romantic relationship going on. I
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: feel like it was more of a this chick actually
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: knows what she's doing scenario, because like I like to
• 1:04:54
  Speaker 1: think her and Bell have their own special, special connection. Okay,
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: she ends up gaining so much respect that she ends
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: up bringing on and becoming in charge of all of
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: these other like lady detectives, including they also hire like
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: they say, women of color. She was black, Okay, this
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: was a black woman they hired because she could find
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: information and go unnoticed in areas where men and white
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: women couldn't like that was you know, it's fairly progressive.
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: Like Alan Pinkerton, he was fairly progressive for the era.
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: It's only when he's like steps down and his sons
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: take over and they kind of like really soil the
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: Pinkerton name because like crossing the picket line when it
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: comes to like all this stuff. Like yeah, but anyway
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: back to this, and so then these like Lady Pinkerton
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: or the Pinks they were known, like, they just start
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 1: like becoming major players in the detective scene. And like
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: remember women could not be police officers at this point,
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: so like this was this was an option for them,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 1: and so Kate she ends up being promoted to the
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: supervisor for the female Detective Bureau. So then when the
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Civil War hits, like Pinkerton writes to President Lincoln like
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: offering the services of the Pingerton National Detective Agency. While
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: he was doing that, Major General George B. McClellan asks
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 1: Pinkerton to set up a military intelligence service like for
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: his command. And so before the end of like July
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: eighteen sixty one, Alan Pinkerton takes Timothy Webster, George Banks,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: and Kate Warn like up to set up headquarters in Cincinnati,
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: right basically to be part of McLellan's Ohio division, right,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: And so they are used as covert like spies, right,
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 1: they're spies for the Union, right. And so like Kate
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 1: Warren on Timothy Webster, like they would often pose his
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: husband and wife as well. And Timothy Webster he actually
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: gets killed, like he gets executed down in the South,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: like he gets caught. And this is the thing as well.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: So during this, like Kate, she would she would often
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: like pose then as Alan's wife. So depending on where
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: they were, she was just somebody's wife, right, And so
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 1: they would go and like find information, and like during
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 1: the Civil War, we don't actually know a lot of
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: what Kate got up to. This is one of those
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 1: things that I wish I had the paperwork for. It's
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: kind of like, in a little bit of a way,
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 1: like the amount of people that ask me about Christopher
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: Lee's military file, which is sealed. By the way it's sealed,
• 1:07:56
  Speaker 1: we don't know what he did. He's probably more James
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 1: Bond than James Bond, is right. Christopher Lee was an
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 1: actual spy, Like he was a proper killing machine. Right.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: We know he's stabbed at least one man, Okay, I
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: think he stabbed more than one man, though I think
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: he stabbed enough men to know exactly what he stabbed
• 1:08:16
  Speaker 1: man sounds like I love Christopher Lee, and I if
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: I had one file to unseal, it would be his.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: I would do it. But I would love to know
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 1: what happened to Kate Warn during the Civil War, like
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 1: a lot of espionage, a lot of subterfuge, a lot
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 1: of sneaky dikis. I'd love to know, like what she
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: did and just fell in that gap. Now her in Pinkerton,
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 1: they remained friends like they remained close over time, so
• 1:08:46
  Speaker 1: much so that when she passed away, Alan Pinkerton had
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: her buried and the Pinkerton family plot at Graceland Cemetery
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 1: in Chicago, Illinois. Even though her surname is like misspelled,
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: like there's no E on the end of Warren on it,
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: and we don't know much actually about the end of
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: her life. But on January twenty eighth, eighteen sixty eight,
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 1: Kate Warren passed away from pneumonia. They call it congestion
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 1: of the lungs, but it was pneumonia. It was just
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 1: a very normal way to die back then, and so
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 1: she passed away at the age of thirty five or
• 1:09:29
  Speaker 1: thirty eight, depending on the timeline. It's young, you know.
• 1:09:34
  Speaker 1: That's what I'm saying. Everything she did she did as
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: a relatively young woman, and I think we need to
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 1: take that into consideration because her life was cut short.
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: Like that's what happened. That was her life, and it
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 1: ended from what is now a curable disease for a
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 1: lot of people, not for everybody, but for a lot
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: of people that is survive and she didn't. And Kate
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 1: Warren is a woman who you know, ended slavery by association, right,
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 1: she was part of the reason that the Emancipation Proclamation
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: went through, even though I know Lincoln has his issues,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: and I know that he only voted or promoted, you know,
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 1: emancipation because that was what the majority of the public wanted,
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 1: and that's why he went with it. If they wanted
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 1: to keep slavery, he would have voted for that too,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: like he would have done that, right, But he did
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: what he did. He was assassinated, Civil war started, so
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 1: on and so forth, so like by proxy, by proxy,
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: Kate Warren was involved. Now thus ends our story of
• 1:10:49
  Speaker 1: Kate Warren, a woman whom I feel we should know
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: so much more about but like with many women in history,
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: we just don't. And so ends our story of Kate Warn,
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 1: a woman whose beginning was shrouded in mystery and spent
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: most of our life solving them. Oh that's good, though,
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: that's really good. If you liked my telling of this story,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: if feel afraid of write, interview five stars. If you
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 1: don't think it's worth five stars, you don't have to
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: see anything. You don't have to write at all. You
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 1: can just ignore it. It's fine. You can follow me
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: on all of the socials. I am either who did What?
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 2: No Poet?
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: Who did What? No PD, or Katie Charlwood. You can
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: just find my name and yeah, yeah, I think that's
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: that's over today. I don't think I'll get any other
• 1:11:42
  Speaker 1: news for you until next time. And I think it's
• 1:11:46
  Speaker 1: recommendation time for watching. I'm gonna go a lady detective.
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with the world. According to Lydia Poet,
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 1: it is not in English. You will have to watch
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: with subtitles you do not speak. I believe it is Spanish.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: And there's that Spanish guy who speaks perfect French. I
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: believe he was Leo in Leo, so like, that's that's
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: a really good show. For reading, I think you should
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 1: read the Number one Ladies Detective Agency, because I think
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: you should. And for listening, there's a podcast called She
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 1: Done It s H E. D U N and I
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: and I found the host. Her voice is so soothing
• 1:12:34
  Speaker 1: that when I first started listening to it, like when
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 1: my anxiety was really bad, I actually would fall asleep
• 1:12:40
  Speaker 1: because I found her so soothing, and it made me
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: really mad because I really wanted to know what she
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 1: was talking about. So basically she talks about like who
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 1: Done It? It's like modern mysteries and those written by
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 1: women specifically, and so I love them. She's amazing. Listen
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 1: to that if you like soft, soothing voices telling you
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: about old time make grim novels. I love it so much.
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 1: Okay with that, I am gonna oh before I go. Actually, no,
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 1: turns out I'm eligible for like the British Podcast Awards
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: listener vote like I'm in the thing, and I was like, oh,
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 1: that's interesting, and part of me like thinks it would
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: be so funny. Could you imagine if my like ars
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: got even close to winning, it would be such it
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: would be such a funny thing, and I'm so tempted
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 1: because you're like, you don't need to be in Britain
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 1: to like vote, you just have to be voting and
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 1: to validate it. How funny would like my little ragon
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 1: ars be? Anyway, if you're great, if you could vote
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 1: for me up at the link in the description, and
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: thank you for listening. I will see you next time.
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 1: Adios au revoir is there my friends? Bye bye