Latest / The Front / The Social Reckoning: Jeremy Strong steps into Mark Zuckerberg’s villain era

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The Social Reckoning: Jeremy Strong steps into Mark Zuckerberg’s villain era · The Front

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: From The Australian, this is the weekend edition of The Front.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: I'm Claire Harvey. Some of Silicon Valley's biggest hitters are
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  Speaker 1: getting the silver screen treatment this year. Elon Musk, Elizabeth Holmes,
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  Speaker 1: Sam Altman. Aaron Sorkin's The Social Reckoning, about Mark Zuckerberg
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  Speaker 1: and Facebook, opens the string of hotly anticipated features and
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  Speaker 1: hits cinemas on October 8 here in Australia. The Social
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  Speaker 1: Reckoning is a sequel to 2010's The Social Network, charting
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  Speaker 1: the events that transpired as Facebook exploded from 500 million
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  Speaker 1: users to 3 billion today, and how the platform found
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  Speaker 1: itself at the centre of fierce legal debates over free speech,
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  Speaker 1: misinformation and corporate accountability, all thanks to one whistleblower and
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  Speaker 1: the dogged reporting of a journalist.
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  Speaker 2: The heart, I promise you, is imminent.
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  Speaker 1: Enough!
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  Speaker 2: People around here understand that when I say no, that's
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  Speaker 2: the end of the debate. I'm not two years out
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  Speaker 2: of a dorm room anymore, Charlie.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Look around. Bianca Farmarcus is the Australian's content director of culture,
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  Speaker 1: and she's one of the few people in the world
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  Speaker 1: who have seen The Social Reckoning as kind of the
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  Speaker 1: sequel no one asked for, isn't it, Bianca? Yeah, definitely.
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  Speaker 3: And it also truly came out of nowhere because it
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  Speaker 3: was very much flirted with for years. I mean, there's
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  Speaker 3: so much that's happened around Facebook. There were never kind
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  Speaker 3: of an end to stories that it could have been
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  Speaker 3: based on.
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  Speaker 1: But this one.
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  Speaker 3: Has landed a bit like Suck Punch, like very minimal advertising,
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  Speaker 3: barely a word spoken about it. And now it's just
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  Speaker 3: here to remind us of kind of what happened.
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  Speaker 2: Relationship status. Interested in. This is what drives life in college.
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  Speaker 2: Are you having sex or aren't you? It's why people
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  Speaker 2: take certain classes and sit where they sit and do
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  Speaker 2: what they do when at some centre, you know, that's
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  Speaker 2: what the Facebook is going to be about. People are
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  Speaker 2: going to log on.
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  Speaker 1: It's a follow-up to The Social Network, the blockbuster movie
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  Speaker 1: about the origins of Facebook, the kind of garage to
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  Speaker 1: billionaire story of Mark Zuckerberg. But we've got a new
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  Speaker 1: Mark Zuckerberg this time round. Jesse Eisenberg didn't show up
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  Speaker 1: for the sequel. Did he not want to do it
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  Speaker 1: or did Aaron Sorkin, the director, just want to go
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  Speaker 1: in a different direction?
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  Speaker 3: Sorkin told me that he begged for three days for
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  Speaker 3: Jesse to come back and he felt quite uncomfortable and
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  Speaker 3: said he didn't want to be associated with the character anymore.
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  Speaker 3: The role that he played, which really launched him to
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  Speaker 3: quite a lot of success. sort of mutated in the
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  Speaker 3: public's eyes. And he gave me this anecdote that boys
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  Speaker 3: would always come up to him, young boys, and be like,
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  Speaker 3: present him, you know, the famous business card that read, like,
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  Speaker 3: I'm a CEO, bitch. And he was like, I don't
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  Speaker 3: want that. So naturally, he went to his second choice,
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  Speaker 3: which I think Jeremy Strong would not love to hear.
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  Speaker 1: Spell your name and state your current occupation for the record. M-A-R-K-Z-U-C-K-E-R-B-E-R-G.
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  Speaker 2: And your occupation? I'm a professional defendant.
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  Speaker 3: We've seen him in succession. We've seen him play kind
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  Speaker 3: of a callous billionaire several times before. And now he
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  Speaker 3: takes on the Zuck at kind of the height of
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  Speaker 3: his powers, but also with all the looming catastrophes surrounding him.
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  Speaker 1: It's about the moment Facebook nearly fell and nearly all
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  Speaker 1: came crumbling down when a whistleblower, Frances Haugen is her
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  Speaker 1: real name, started collaborating with a journalist at the Wall
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  Speaker 1: Street Journal, our sister paper in America. called Jeff Horwitz,
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  Speaker 1: for a series of incredible stories. I remember these breaking
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  Speaker 1: at the time, and she was really revealing not just
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  Speaker 1: that Facebook was harming its own users, but that it
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  Speaker 1: knew that it was, and that was a business strategy.
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  Speaker 2: Listen, before I go on, I want to make something clear.
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  Speaker 1: Okay. I have a hunch you're not a fan of Facebook,
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  Speaker 1: but I am. I am here to help Facebook, not hurt.
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  Speaker 3: It, okay?
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  Speaker 1: You send me a message. Who would you like to
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: talk about? Who plays Frances Haugen and Jeff Horwitz?
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  Speaker 3: She's played by Mikey Madison in her first role since
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  Speaker 3: she won the Oscar for Nora, so a completely different character.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, you know, to go from a sex worker
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  Speaker 3: to this mousy-mannered, you know, mid-tier engineer was just worlds
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  Speaker 3: apart and she's superb in it. And then Jeff Horwitz,
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  Speaker 3: who I wish all journalists looked like, is played by
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  Speaker 3: Jeremy Allen White.
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  Speaker 1: Who will play you in the movie of The Australian
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  Speaker 1: and our amazing culture?
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  Speaker 3: Oh, my God. Do you know what? I don't want
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  Speaker 3: to flatter myself too much, but I would like to
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  Speaker 3: think at a certain age, Penelope Cruz.
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  Speaker 1: I think I'm getting more into Helen Mirren territory nowadays.
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  Speaker 1: Jeremy Allen White, of course, from The Bear. I can't
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  Speaker 1: imagine him as a hard-hitting investigative journalist. Is he throwing
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  Speaker 1: notebooks and pens around the room or is he a
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  Speaker 1: different character altogether?
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  Speaker 3: He is so divine. Can't use a computer, can barely
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  Speaker 3: even set up his own Facebook account without assistance. But
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  Speaker 3: you can see the tenacity in him. It's just this
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  Speaker 3: like rigorous, compelling sort of drive. do want to get
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  Speaker 3: to the bottom of the story. But he's very gentle
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  Speaker 3: and he's very soft in his approach. And it's all
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  Speaker 3: basically about, I need to prove this. I need to
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  Speaker 3: prove this. I don't understand what you're telling me. And
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  Speaker 3: neither will the public, which I think is the really
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  Speaker 3: kind of important part of the social reckoning, is there's
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  Speaker 3: all the technical stuff. And then Sorkin's writing really brings
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  Speaker 3: out this kind of human element to it. So it's
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  Speaker 3: really grounded in not only the societal impacts, and you
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  Speaker 3: see it through several key scenes, but also... Jeremy Allen's,
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  Speaker 3: Wyatt's performance is us. It's people finding this out for
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  Speaker 3: the first time and being like, okay, I don't know
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  Speaker 3: what an MSI is. I don't know what, you know,
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  Speaker 3: data breaches are. But he's like, this is basically a
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  Speaker 3: story of David versus Goliath. And you have proof that
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  Speaker 3: Goliath actually did everything wrong and meant to. So it
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  Speaker 3: crystallizes it into this incredible, compelling tale of things that
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  Speaker 3: are not too distant from us. I mean, the events
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  Speaker 3: of this story only happened six or seven years ago.
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  Speaker 1: In July, the Federal Trade Commission fined Facebook for $ 5
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  Speaker 1: billion for violating users' privacy.
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  Speaker 4: Social media giant of intentionally designing a product that's addictive
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  Speaker 4: to children. Today, Meta agreed to pay $ 17 billion and
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  Speaker 4: add stronger child safety measures to its Facebook and Instagram.
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  Speaker 1: We've already heard quite a bit of evidence that the
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  Speaker 1: plaintiffs in this case were suggesting.
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  Speaker 2: that Meta knew that its platforms were addicted to children.
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  Speaker 2: They knew about that data.
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  Speaker 3: Facebook has agreed to settle the lawsuit involving their enabling
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  Speaker 3: of Cambridge Analytica to access private data belonging to millions
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  Speaker 3: of users.
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  Speaker 1: A court filing.
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  Speaker 3: Which does kind of make you think, is it just
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  Speaker 3: too close to home for now? It's something I really
• 6:45
  Speaker 3: struggle with with films when they bring up things like
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: COVID or things like January 6th is touched on in
• 6:51
  Speaker 3: this film. And I was a bit worried that that
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: would be a bit too fresh in the human consciousness.
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  Speaker 3: But it's done quite delicately and I would argue quite brilliantly.
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  Speaker 1: There's a new villain on the block now, though. Mark
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  Speaker 1: Zuckerberg seems kind of cute and cuddly compared to Sam
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  Speaker 1: Altman and Daria Amadei and the AI kind of titans.
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  Speaker 1: who are wanting, for example, Australia to rip up its
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  Speaker 1: copyright laws to get their way. It's an interesting idea
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  Speaker 1: to have the antagonist being the journalist, isn't it? Because
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  Speaker 1: it's Facebook that has destroyed the business model of traditional
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  Speaker 1: news outlets by massively undercutting our advertising models. It's impossible
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  Speaker 1: for us to compete now for the advertising that we
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  Speaker 1: used to get. It's ironically forced newspapers like The Australian
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  Speaker 1: and The Wall Street Journal into doing the kind of
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  Speaker 1: journalism that people will get out their credit cards for.
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  Speaker 1: behind a paywall, and that is investigative, deep, serious journalism,
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  Speaker 1: exactly like the Jeff Horwitz Facebook farts.
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  Speaker 3: It's a true love letter to journalism. It's like a
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  Speaker 3: modern All the President's Men, but it's slightly less chaotic,
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  Speaker 3: although arguably higher stakes.
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  Speaker 1: Coming up, what happens when a cautionary tale turns into inspiration?
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  Speaker 1: It's raining. I'm sorry?
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  Speaker 2: It just started raining.
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  Speaker 1: Mr. Zuckerberg, do I have your full attention? No.
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  Speaker 2: You have part of my attention. You have the minimum amount.
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  Speaker 2: The rest of my attention is back at the offices
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  Speaker 2: of Facebook, where my colleagues and I are doing things
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  Speaker 2: that no one in this room, including and especially your clients,
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  Speaker 2: are intellectually or creatively capable of doing.
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  Speaker 1: It's interesting that you raise that idea that young men
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  Speaker 1: saw the original Mark Zuckerberg in the social network as
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  Speaker 1: a bit of a hero. That's common in stories that
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  Speaker 1: are supposed to be cautionary tales in this kind of world.
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  Speaker 1: Like Michael Lewis, who wrote Liar's Poker, wanted that to
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  Speaker 1: be a cautionary tale about the disgraceful behaviour of investment
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  Speaker 1: bankers and kind of traders. In fact, it inspired a
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  Speaker 1: whole new generation and precipitated the kind of wild behaviour
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  Speaker 1: that probably led to the GFC. You know, it's not uncommon.
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  Speaker 4: What has happened to Wall Street since Liar's Poker came
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  Speaker 4: out is that it's become, its relationship with the rest
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  Speaker 4: of society has become much more problematic. It's become cagier.
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  Speaker 4: It's become more guarded, closed, afraid of how it seems.
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  Speaker 1: To the wider world. So has Aaron Sorkin kind of
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  Speaker 1: dealt with that in this new movie by making Mark
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  Speaker 1: Zuckerberg more of a villain? Or is it still possible
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  Speaker 1: to emerge from this movie with a sense of him
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  Speaker 1: as a relatable or likable character?
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely not, I would say, in terms of relatable or likable.
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  Speaker 3: He is just completely hollow and miles away from any
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  Speaker 3: realm of humanity, which was presented in this social network.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, you had sort of someone, a nerd that
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  Speaker 3: conquered all odds and created what was then perceived as
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  Speaker 3: an incredible product.
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  Speaker 4: And it is.
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  Speaker 3: A true success story. I think Aaron Sorkin has dealt
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  Speaker 3: with this very interestingly because he really likes to say
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  Speaker 3: that Mark Zuckerberg is an anti-hero. So someone whose intentions
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  Speaker 3: were good that has now created catastrophic harm for society.
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  Speaker 3: And I don't know if he really necessarily set out
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  Speaker 3: to make him seem more evil. I think he wrote
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  Speaker 3: the character in The Social Reckoning very much as how
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  Speaker 3: he's perceived and very much in this fishbowl. So with
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  Speaker 3: The Social Network, Mark Zuckerberg was the star. In The
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  Speaker 3: Social Reckoning, I would argue he's only in it for
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  Speaker 3: 20 to 25 minutes. He's not the focal point at all.
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  Speaker 3: And every sort of scene that you see him in,
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  Speaker 3: he is claustrophobic. Everyone is staring at him. He's either
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: being questioned in preparing for a massive judiciary committee, or
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: he's in the war room and then seeing the consequences
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  Speaker 3: of his product's actions at one of the most important
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  Speaker 3: seminal moments in recent times. And he's contained by the
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  Speaker 3: havoc that his platform has wreaked on the world. And
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  Speaker 3: I don't know if you actually get to a deeper
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  Speaker 3: level with him. And that's not a criticism on the performance.
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  Speaker 3: It's not a criticism on the writing. I think it's
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  Speaker 3: quite intentional to isolate him in that sense and say,
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  Speaker 3: this is someone that we all know about. Everyone knows
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  Speaker 3: who he is, and yet how much do we really
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  Speaker 3: know about him and how much do we see any
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: reconciliation for what he's crafted?
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  Speaker 1: I can't wait to see it. Thanks, Bianca.
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  Speaker 3: Thank you.
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  Speaker 1: Bianca Farmarcus is Content Director of Culture at The Australian.
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: You can read her work anytime at theaustralian.com.au slash culture.
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  Speaker 1: This episode of The Front was hosted by me, Claire Harvey,
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  Speaker 1: and produced by Jasper League. Our team also includes Kristen Ami,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: Leah Tamaglou, Tiffany Dimak and Joshua Burton.