Latest / Global Leadership Collaborative / #10: Let Them Lead: Nicky Chong, Asia-Pacific Area Director, Wycliffe Global Alliance
Transcript
- Woody McLendon: Hi, and welcome to the Global Leadership Collaborative Podcast. My name is Woody McLendon and I'm your host. The goal of this podcast is to encourage current and future leaders the Bible translation movement around the world. We do that through a series of conversations with current leaders who are willing to share their journey of following Jesus and serving in Bible translation. So today I'm thrilled to welcome a dear friend and gifted leader, Nicky Chong. Nicky is the Asia-Pacific Area Director for the Wycliffe Global Alliance. He's also served as the Wycliffe Singapore Director previously and in many other leadership and ministry roles. So Nicky, it's a delight to have you with me today. And thanks for connecting from Singapore. Nicky Chong: Well, Woody, it's a real joy and privilege to be here. Thank you again for inviting me to share about you know God's grace and His greatness in and through my life and of of course through many others also. And I'm I'm glad that I have been invited to share something of that with you and just pray that this is something that would be of help to our brothers and sisters serving the Lord. Woody McLendon: Thank you. Thank you. Well, I'm excited about this conversation and I'd like to dive right in I'd like you to think back to a time of crisis, of challenge early in your ministry, and take me back and explain what was unfolding and how God was working in you then that's impacted your leadership today. Nicky Chong: Well, thank you so much for that question. And as you said, this is f fairly early on, pretty early on in my ministry. And I was a pastor actually of a local church and and actually during one of this season the the church actually needed somebody to help them in the missions department. And because I I have two young children at the time and then my wife also had to be working and in order for us to be able to live and to serve, so I actually asked for a certain level of salary in order to be able to serve. And initially it did work out, in terms of the contract and everything. But when the contract was coming to a close and the church actually the leaders would actually like me to continue on further, and I I said that if that's to happen, then we need to maintain that level of salary. However, there were two leaders in the church who saw, and these two leaders, they just look at things differently. One didn't feel like the church should continue with this contract and this level of salary, and the other feels strongly that it should. Just to cut a long story short, the one who felt like no, we we cannot allow for this salary level to continue, he was able to influence others to to make a decision to stop giving me that level of salary, but you know, whatever else that the church decided on. And then I I said that if you don't do that, then I can't continue. And so as a result of that, I basically just let the contract finish. And that became a crisis point for me because it meant I was without a job and I have two young children. And also my wife at the time was only working part-time. So because of that, it meant that it was a time of pain, because you know, you don't have a job suddenly. But I felt like the decision was important for me to make because there was a principle involved and I felt like I need to stick to that principle. You know, some people might say that it was foolhardy of me at the time not to continue, because you know, it's better to continue with less than to have nothing. But at that point in time I felt like it was an important principle for me to uphold. But God in His grace, even though after that I actually never did have a a full time job for quite a long time, He provided for me in different ways. And of course it was a humbling time, it was a time to trust in the Lord. And a little bit of a background to that story is that because we were actually preparing to go to the mission field for training and all of that, so it was difficult for me to find a more permanent job. But through that year of waiting, God provided. And God taught me lessons of humility, of dependence. But also, I think the lesson is to hold your expectations lightly. Because it's not about you. It really is not about you. It's about God and what He wants to do in and through you. And so there are some of these expectations you have to hold lightly. And I think the second lesson I learned from it is that is not to take it personally. when leaders make decisions, whether it's a church, whether it's an organization, they have their reasons, and sometimes it's nothing to do with you. But you cannot take it personally. And I'm happy to say that even though that thing happened years later on, I continue to have good relationships with these people who are, you know, who are my leaders. In fact, one of them just recently went home to be with the Lord. Woody McLendon: Well, thank you. And it sounds like, learning to trust God through that season was an important part. And even just seeing His provision and also recognizing that in taking a principal decision, yeah, there was a cost. And and yet the Lord opened up further things for you from there. I would like to shift gears a little bit. We kind of jumped into the middle of your story before we go too much further, actually, I like to go back a bit to the beginning. So tell me a little Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: bit about where you were born and your family and your growing up years. Nicky Chong: So as you mentioned earlier, I'm in Singapore, so I'm born and bred Singaporean. And the interesting thing about God's grace in my in my story is that actually I was born out of wedlock and my mother actually wanted to abort me at the time. But my my father managed to convince her not to do so. My my father at the time was was already married and he already had other children. But by God's grace, my mom finally decided to keep me, to have me. and so I grew up sort of being single-parented by my mother because my dad, actually he actually goes around the world on ships, because he takes care of engines in ships. So I didn't see my father a lot growing up. So I do have six other half-siblings. I'm the only child from my my mother. And by God's grace, even though it was a you know, a very dysfunctional family, I still remember that my my mom actually stayed with one of my dad's relatives. You know, we lived with them. And in that household I have you know many cousins and my relatives actually had people over to gamble, to play mahjong and Woody McLendon: wow. Nicky Chong: growing up in the environment, actually there was a lot of arguments and quarrels by the people who came to to gamble and all of that. So and it was also a very dysfunctional family in that my aunt and uncle had a bad very bad relationship, and sometimes my uncle who became drunk would be waiting for my aunt to come home, who came home late from going out, and he'd be very angry with her, and he would sit there waiting for her with with a cleaver in his hand waiting for her to come home. So it was a very tension, Woody McLendon: no. my my. Nicky Chong: it was a very tension-filled home, you know. But I'm always amazed that God, even through all of that, right, God protected me. And I have always had a sense of the existence of God. Somehow God just placed it in my heart that there's an existence of God. And whenever there's this tension, whenever things like that happen, I would just pray. I would just pray to God, this God that I don't know. Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: And in fact I don't know whether we we want to go straight into talking a little bit about how I came to know the Lord. But one of the things that we kids we we live in an area that's quite near Chinatown in Singapore, and actually there is like an itinerant evangelist and she would come round our homes like once a week, she would rally us kids around and she would tell us Bible stories. And I think that was when I was first exposed to the gospel, because of the faithfulness of such itinerant evangelists who came around our home and just share the gospel with us doing Bible stories. So, but all this just to say that this this was the beginning of how God, you know, came into my life, and and because my father wasn't around much and and my mom, you know, had to work to take care of me and all of that, nobody really supervised me, if I can put it that way. So since Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: I was young, I've always been a very independent person. When I was less than 10 years old, I would actually go to a cinema and watch a movie on my own, even if my friends didn't want to go with me. Woody McLendon: That's quite a story. Now, many people would hear that and say that it sounds quite traumatic, and yet you you've come with a a sense of joy and laughter. How was that season for you in your life? obviously hard in many ways, but what Nicky Chong: Mm Woody McLendon: things do was God teaching you even in those difficulties? Nicky Chong: Actually that's an interesting question. I I I don't think I reflected a lot in terms of what He was what was taught me other than the fact that the circumstances caused me or or shaped me to be quite adaptable and flexible. But I think maybe in terms of relationships, in terms of relating to people, because there's there's like I mentioned, there's a lot of tension right in the home, and you see people fighting, quarreling. So you you begin to understand a little bit better about how to help people to be harmonious, how to keep the peace, how do you try to see what the issues are and then to try and address those things. And all this is very intuitive for me. You just pick it up, you just imbibe in it because your circumstances are are such that they do that. Woody McLendon: Fascinating. Nicky Chong: I think it has shaped me in terms of how I read a situation, how I read people, how I read like when when there is conflict and all of that right in especially in leadership. How do you try and maintain that relationship but at the same time you don't just gloss over the issue? But how do you deal with that in a way? So I think I think those were the years where God sort of just, you know, used all of that to make me who I am, which is actually very important in cross-cultural situations. We are in cross-cultural ministry, right? So you have to be able to I mean we call it nowadays we call it cross-cultural or cultural quotient, right? I I think even before that is became a buzzword, that is very much in me as a person. And I think that was how God shaped me over the years. So I feel very comfortable relating to people who are very different to me ethnically, and and all of that, whether Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. Nicky Chong: it whether they're Malays or Indians or Bangladeshis or whatever and I think it's got to do with how these growing up years have shaped me, Woody McLendon: Well, thank you for sharing that. And I appreciate the fact of your sensitivity to the presence of conflict, sometimes it's not quite obvious, and yet it's there. And in Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: leadership, particularly leadership in ministry, part of it is being able to prayfully and and directly bring attention to things that can that aren't healthy in order to bring resolution. So fascinating how God wove those challenges of your growing up to be part of fruitful ministry today. So you were hearing the the gospel from this itinerant evangelist that would come and share with the children. At what point in your life did you make a personal commitment to follow Jesus? Nicky Chong: Yeah, so I I mentioned about, this itinerant evangelist rallying us kids. So I've got good friends in the neighborhood and and one of them happened to know another friend who went to this church that currently that right now I'm part of. And so they invited me to go to this church camp for young people. it might sound fascinating to you, Woody, but you know, English is actually has become my first language, right? Because of the way our education system is. But at the time they would have this gospel camps that are in Cantonese, which is not really my mother tongue actually, but you know, I grew up sort of speaking it. So at this camp, it was all done in Cantonese, and I prayed to receive the Lord in Cantonese, at this gospel camp, Woody McLendon: Amen. Nicky Chong: and that was that was how it all started. And then of course later on the church had English services and Mandarin services and all of that, but that was the the starting point for me in terms of being a disciple of of Jesus, I just want to say at this point it is that my my church, I thank God for this church, because my church is a very mission-minded church and if not for I think I I think a large part of why I'm involved in missions and Bible ministry and all of that is because of my my church's missional focus. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. Well, tell me a bit about that because so you went to the camp. Well, about how old were you? And then what happened after that? Nicky Chong: Yeah. So I was about 13, 14 at the time when I came to know the Lord. And but you know, as as any new believer in Christ, you know there are ups and downs. So I backslided for one for a couple of years and then the Lord brought me back. And when I came back to the church at about age 16, 17, one of the things about my church is that we have been involved in missions and mission mobilization for over 50 years this year, 53 years in fact. And Woody McLendon: Wow Nicky Chong: during that time we had our annual missions convention. It was at one of those missions conventions that I sensed God's call to be open to full-time Christian ministry. I think I was around 17 or 18 years old at the time. In fact, come to think of it, the call actually went further back. It reached it was when I was 13 years old when I first believed in the Lord. And I think at that year, didn't fully understand anything. I raised my hand and stood up when the preacher asked who feels called to be considered for full-time Christian ministry. Woody, you're only 13, Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: 14 years old. What do you understand, right? But I just responded. And of course, then later Woody McLendon: God works. Nicky Chong: on, But God works. Later on, God reminded me again when I was 17, 18, and the call, you know, came back to me. And it was after this the the second time of being, you know, reminded by God that my sense of calling for missions became more real and focused in my life. And that was how my journey of intentionally knowing what it means to follow God in full-time Christian ministry was started. Again why I mentioned so much that my my church played a big part in this is because the senior pastor at the time, he really is a champion of missions, cross-cultural missions and overseas missions in particular. And the church, has been intentionally in terms of financial support, in terms of policies, in terms of mobilizing our church people to pray, to get involved, has been have played a really big part in my own journey as well as my wife's journey into Bible translation and missions. Woody McLendon: So what happened after you Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: responded to that call, you know, 17-ish, what were the next some of the next steps and Nicky Chong: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Woody McLendon: how did God unfold that chapter for you? Nicky Chong: So after I you know, in Singapore we have now military service, national service. So after I finished that, God led me to join OMF Singapore. I worked with them for a season of time and it was during that time that that I also met my wife, which I can talk about a little bit later, even though she wasn't with OMF. But it was during that time that God two things. First thing is I would call it the discipleship by testaments. At OMF at the time they would have people who come through for orientation and as well as the leaders there would share stories about God's Word and God's faithfulness. And it was through these testaments, I would call them, that I felt like I was being discipled by God through those stories, through His Word. So that's one and that has been quite an important part in shaping my view of God and and about missions. And secondly, is that at the time I was helping in communication at OMF for a little bit and I felt God calling me to get into full-time Christian ministry but not knowing what to do yet. But I I felt for sure that I wanted to do communication and theology. And in Singapore at the time there wasn't any seminary that offered that. So long story short, I've always wondered about studying at Moody Bible Institute in Chicago. And the Lord just opened the door for me, and I applied and I got accepted. And more than that, I had nary a dollar in my bank account Woody McLendon: Ha ha ha. Nicky Chong: that would support what I need to do for the next four years. And the Lord was so kind, the church committed to support me, and I've got like three or four other friends, they also committed to support me, to pay for my, you know, my living expenses studying at Moody for the next four years. And Woody McLendon: Well, praise God. Nicky Chong: praise God for that. And of course, along the way, my my wife joined me. You know, we got married and she joined me, and even though she was an addition, if you if I can put it that way, but the Lord continue to provide for us. And we were we we never lacked anything throughout that four years. Yeah, so Woody McLendon: Amen. Nicky Chong: we we praise the Lord for that. And it was during our time at Moody, that was when the calling for cross-cultural missions was actually made very clear to my wife and me. It was Primarily we yeah. So I went Woody McLendon: How was that how did that Yeah, how did that come about? Nicky Chong: I went there thinking that I'll just do communications and theology and she actually had already had her bachelor's in Singapore, but she joined me at to do some theological training and and in fact later on she d she did her masters at Moody Graduate School. But what happened was along the way, we had to take a missions course, right? So it was at the missions course that I met two influential, I would say they were very influential in our lives, and that's Ray Badgero and Ken Hanna. Both of them were missionaries to different places. One was to the former Yugoslavia and the other was to Central and South America. It was through these two professors and through a particular pilot missions program that my wife and I had the privilege to go to Mexico and Nicaragua. So we were there for six weeks, we had to memorize our testimonies into Spanish. I mean we never spoke a word of Spanish, we had to memorize it. And when anytime my professor says, Okay, Nicky or Soak Wan, it's your turn, you just stand up and you just share it, you know. But it was a very powerful experience for us to know what it means to communicate with people in their heart language. Woody McLendon: Amen. Nicky Chong: and so that God's Word can use that, God can use that to touch them. it was through that that God spoke to us and confirmed to us, through our peers there and through our professors who felt like we have the right, so to speak, make up for being involved in cross cultural missions. And so from then on, we began to pursue that. I double majored and did communications and missions. My wife finished her masters and then we graduated knowing that we want to go into cross-cultural missions. But we we felt like we need to go back to Asia because a lot of the needs are in Asia. And so without Woody McLendon: Mm-hmm. Nicky Chong: really knowing where, but we felt like we need to go back to Asia. And so we returned to Singapore and that was when we also felt like we need to reconnect with our church in order for them to know what God has called us to do and for us to get to know the church and then together as as a partnership to be sent out by the church. Woody McLendon: So when did you first learn about Bible translation in this journey? Nicky Chong: So interestingly, my wife has always my wife she has always been interested in Bible translation. She was in even before I did. In fact, before I met her, she had been praying and supporting Wycliffe Singapore a couple missionaries for for a couple of years on her own when she was working in a secular job and then later on she joined Navigators, the Singapore Navigators. So she had been supporting them and praying for them. And so when God called us to go into cross-cultural missions, it didn't start with Wycliffe. How it was started was that she and I were both drawn to go back to serve in Latin America, so either Mexico or Central America or South America. And in Singapore at the time there were very few in international agencies that have, they have worked in that part of the world. It was only SIM, maybe WEC and Wycliffe. And my church had been supporting some Wycliffe missionaries, both Singapore Singaporeans as well as those outside of Singapore. And it was so it was through our relationship with some of these members who were based in Singapore that we got to know about the work of Wycliffe and also we wanted to know if we could serve in Latin America and so that Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: was how how the Lord led us. And of course as somebody who's involved in theological studies and all of that we have always felt like the the Word of God in the people's language is key to evangelism, to discipleship, to theological contextualization for for these communities when the church is planted so that's how we we saw and how how we got involved in doing that. But at first we thought we would want to serve in Latin America but because of a medical condition that I have the Lord closed the door to serving in some in in these places that has openings in Latin America, and even in Africa. And and later on the Lord opened the door for us to serve in in Indonesia. But I'm getting ahead of myself here but just just to summarize that. Woody McLendon: Yeah, no, that's fascinating. Well, thank you. So connect the dots a little bit. You came back to Singapore after Moody and then you shared your opening story, was working for the missions department of at the church. Is this the same Nicky Chong: Yes. Woody McLendon: church that you came to as a young believer? And what happened in that process? Nicky Chong: Yeah. So you're right, it's the same church that I've been a part Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: of when I first mentioned we came back, I served as the pastor in that church. And then later on when there was a need in the missions department and then they asked me to help in the missions department and that was when that whole, incident happened there. So after I finished I had to and that contract finished and they didn't renew it because of my request, my demands if you will. We just stayed on for about another year or so in Singapore where I was unemployed and I was the homemaker. So I was the one who looked after my two young children at the time. My very young one was less than a year old and then the other was like three years old and then my wife worked part-time. And the Lord just provided for us in in different ways along the way. But we were in the process of preparing to we got to know about Wycliffe and then we were then preparing to go to Australia for our linguistics training in Kangaroo Ground, And like I mentioned because my church is very very supportive of our members going out so in terms of our financial support for going there as a family for the training, my my church actually fully supported our time there for a year. And then after our time there, as we were about to graduate we then got invited to serve with Kartidaya in Indonesia. And at the time there were like I mentioned we were actually praying about going to Latin America at first and then Africa and the doors were closed. And when we were presented with the option of serving Indonesia, then of course it dawned on us too, you know, Indonesia has the world's largest Muslim population. And it also Woody McLendon: Right. Nicky Chong: has a very large number of languages, language communities, at least at the time were still around seven to eight hundred communities. And how many of course needed translation? I think probably about four or five hundred at the time. Then of course it occurred to us that if we really want to see these unreached, and some of them are unengaged, people groups, for the gospel, then the Word of God is the best way to reach them when it is translated into their heart language. So that you know was a very compelling reason and vision for us to go and serve in Indonesia. So we were actually the first from Wycliffe Singapore to actually be assigned to another organization Wycliffe international organization if you will, but not an SIL entity. So my whole my whole career, if you will, with Wycliffe and all that never served under SIL. But and and Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: actually it it was very good for us because we have always believed that when we go to another country to serve, we should always come under national leadership and let them lead. And we are just there to support them and serve them in whatever roles that God has given to us. I mean I just want to say that they may be at various stages of their development. And sometimes things may not turn out the way you expect them to. But I go back to my earlier point about holding your expectations lightly. But trusting and humbling yourself and trusting in God to lead you to know how to serve, these people according to their terms and culture. So that's that's how we approached it. And there were many issues, but Woody McLendon: Yeah. Nicky Chong: I can tell you what the what the some of the funny and painful incidents but how do you call that? But you know, we had a blast. We had a wonderful time there as a family. It was just just wonderful to see how God used all of that despite our own inadequacies. Woody McLendon: Amen to that. Yeah, I I understand. Now, your your time in Indonesia, as I understand, wasn't as long as you maybe thought it would be. Tell Nicky Chong: Mm. Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: me a little bit about how God directed from there back to Singapore. Nicky Chong: Yeah, as as you mentioned, we only serve we only served two years, 2004 to 2006. You know, we were hoping, planning that we could serve at least two terms, like eight years, because one of the expectations was that we would go there and then we would be with with some experience we will be training our Indonesian colleagues in Kartidaya. My specialty so to speak was in cultural anthropology and ethnography and Soak Wan was going to help with language acquisition. But what happened was that the story about why we spent such a short time in Indonesia it actually even began before we graduated from our linguistic studies. It was Woody McLendon: Wow, okay. Nicky Chong: to it was towards the end of our training in in Australia, and just about a week before we had the exams and then school was done, I remember I was doing my quiet time, my devotional in the evening after the kids went to bed, and suddenly, one of the evenings, I heard a voice that says, you will be the next director of Wycliffe Singapore. I heard it twice, Woody McLendon: my. Nicky Chong: Woody. I actually heard, an to me it was an audible voice. Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: I'm like, now where did that come from? Didn't think too much about it. About well, maybe like two weeks after when when school is over and we were actually preparing to leave and go back to Singapore, Kenneth Kok, you might remember him, Kenneth was the Wycliffe Singapore director at the time. I think it was in 2003. So he actually happened to be in Australia for a holiday with his family. And then he came by because we we we needed his help to bring some of our luggage, our books back to Singapore. And as he was helping us packing casually, my wife was there, he said, you know, I was actually having a spiritual retreat about a week ago, and I asked the Lord who could take over, you know, from me as the national executive director. He said that your name came up. And I Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: when I heard it, I started to laugh. You know, now I didn't say this, I actually didn't tell my wife about the voice that I heard. I didn't say anything at Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: all. So my wife heard it. She said, Kenneth, you can keep your job. Woody McLendon: Ha. Nicky Chong: of course I kept quiet, I didn't say anything. And what happened is that when we went to Indonesia to serve, for a period of time that how do you call that? The the the voice that I heard, it sort of kept coming back to me and and I had no peace about it. And and I shared it with one of the Wycliffe Singapore members who who came and asked him to pray for me that if this is not from God, to just pray that you go away so that I won't get distracted in terms of learning to serve. But what happened was that about six months into our time in Indonesia, we had to leave Indonesia to go to Singapore for our visa, visa renewal or visa run. And and then we realized that my mother my mother had a medical condition. She didn't look well at all. And so when Woody McLendon: Mm-hmm. Nicky Chong: we realized that her medical condition didn't look well, we had to seriously pray about, whether we should be, coming back, and so after a time of prayer, my wife felt like, you know, maybe we should seriously think about being open to God to leading us back. So we informed the leadership of Wycliffe Singapore, including Kenneth Kok. Then the board met me, and then they felt like I was the right person. And then Kenneth Kok then shared with my church senior pastor. And you know what was surprising? The senior pastor, he actually was so positive he said to Kenneth Kok, I act I actually expected it. That was Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: such a big surprise to it and then he we brought it to the deacon's board and you there was unanimous support for for the Woody McLendon: Praise God. Nicky Chong: church. But we were so totally surprised by it. And by the way, I still at at the time I still haven't told my wife about the voice that I heard. I still haven't It was it was I only yes I only told her Woody McLendon: my goodness, what did you finally tell her? You have told her, right? Good. Nicky Chong: after the fact. Part Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: of the reason was that I didn't I didn't want it to influence the the decision by the leadership. The decision my that my wife had to make. And in any case, so when it became very clear that this was really from God, with the church totally behind it, Wycliffe Singapore board totally behind it, and then my my wife, well, after we made that decision, about six months later, when you know, we were actually we made the decision partly because of my mother, right? Well, six months later, my mom passed away. She went to be with the Lord. And then when we moved back to Singapore eventually in 2006, exactly two years since we moved there, then we began to realize that actually my in-laws, meaning to say my wife's parents, they were the ones who were not in a good state in terms of their health and situation. And so we realized that in God's sovereignty and in His wisdom, the decision for us to move back also was key to in terms of us being there to support her parents who needed help. So her parents sold their home, moved in with us. And so Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: we took care of them when they were back. And both of them, both my parents in law, they passed away within two months of each other about two years after we've moved back. So that's a very interesting story and Woody McLendon: The Lord worked all those pieces together in ways that you didn't understand at the time, but ended up Nicky Chong: Yeah. Correct. Woody McLendon: being part of his plan. Wow. Thank you for sharing that Nicky Chong: Yeah, yeah. Woody McLendon: and that reminder of how God, you know, when something doesn't quite make sense, and even when you Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: hear, you know, these these this voice, you're like, Okay, Lord, how He refines and clarifies is really beautiful. So as you're starting at Wycliffe Singapore, this is early in Nicky Chong: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: the Vision 2025 era, Nicky Chong: Yes, correct. Woody McLendon: what were you seeing as you entered as a young a new leader? And how were you growing as a leader at that point for for that role? Nicky Chong: Mm. So I think we were I would say that at least for myself and of you know what I've observed of Wycliffe Alliance organizations, we were inspired by Vision 2025. And and so as part of discerning what should we do, in order to respond to Vision 2025, and also in understanding what is the church context of Singapore, how missional are churches, what do they think of Bible translation and all of that. So that really was key in in helping us to if I can put it this way, to reposition Wycliffe Singapore. We for one, my own observation of that time is that Wycliffe Singapore had done very well in terms of for example in those early years we actually championed member care and we were one of the first to bring up the issue of member care and as a result many churches, started to focus on member care, they realized the importance of member care. We were, so to speak, the pioneers in in raising awareness. And then you have Kenneth Kok who with his IT background, who championed, kingdom technology at the time, using IT to serve God in Bible translation and mission, so he spent quite a lot of time engaging with young people, undergraduates, people who are IT professionals, to get involved in translation through IT. My own observation is that we have churches that support Bible translation, but largely because their own church members who are also members of Wycliffe Singapore are involved in Bible translation. I didn't get the sense that they have a vision about the importance of Bible translation for the transformation of of the language communities of the nations. So then we realized that we need to debunk certain myths about Bible Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: translation and involvement. So communication was a very large part of our strategy. So we we did a rebranding of Wycliffe Singapore, which means that we we needed to reshape our message, and the message was that, everybody and anybody who has a heart for God's mission through Bible translation, you can be involved. Because for a long time some of this myth that has been going around is that a person needs to be academically inclined, needs to be very good at languages or linguistics, and so on and so forth. So we needed to change the message that is it's not true, anyone can be involved in Bible translation and the Bible translation vision. And secondly, the tendency of churches' involvement is because of the members. So I felt like when people think of Wycliffe and Bible translation, it tends to be what we what I call member-centric. It focuses Woody McLendon: Mm-hmm. Nicky Chong: on the member. But actually it's not. it should be what I call transformation-centric, meaning to say, our vision, our our goal, and our message is that it's about these language communities that need God's Word in their language for their transformation. So so we shifted the messaging to transformation-centric vision and that's that's how we came up with this thing called Reaching 200 by 2025. Because as a team we actually spent some time praying, discerning, and out of the more than 3000 remaining languages at the time, we prayed and discerned that God to give us this vision to help to get involved in 200 new language translations by 2025. So it wasn't a hard goal. It wasn't it wasn't meant to be a hard goal but it was meant to be a focus that if God will give us the privilege to engage with the churches in Singapore to see 200 languages that still have no Bible translation started to get involved in that. So that was how we we launched it. And it actually turned out to be a very key strategy for, not for fundraising, even though we raised quite a lot of funds to it to support the project, but it was a key strategy to engaging the church, the churches in Bible translation. Because you know, Woody, you and I know, right? Translators can come and go. Members can come and go. But if a church has embraced the vision, even if they don't have any members anymore that are with us, right? But they embrace the vision. They will still continue to support financially, to be praying fervently, and to be sending even short-term teams from their own church to be in collaboration with the field and the churches in the field. And we have seen that happen in Singapore, in Wycliffe Singapore, where a number of churches since we started the vision, they have continued up to this point, even past Vision Tw even 2025, to be involved Woody McLendon: Wonderful. Nicky Chong: in in translation and they have moved from one cluster of translation to the next one and to the next one. So that was that was what we see. I I share all this not to say how great I I have been. No no no Woody McLendon: No Nicky Chong: but but just to to s to share with you the history of and and he it and it is continuing. Now so now we call it R200 without the the the time frame of 2025 because we've passed it but just R200 and God has continued to use it. Woody McLendon: That's wonderful. Well, thank you for sharing. I think it's so interesting. Each organization reaches a point, oftentimes, as a new leader comes in when it's time to reposition or or reflect on what's been Nicky Chong: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: accomplished and celebrate that, but also consider what God's doing to respond to in the world ahead. And and what a wonderful testimony of of how God positioned Wycliffe Singapore to really encourage churches to engage with Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: communities for transformation. I love that, that vision, and I'm glad it's it's continuing. We've had a great start of our conversation, I want to take a little bit of break just for a bit of fun questions. This is a bit of a a change of direction. Then I want to come back and ask a few more things a little bit more seriously Nicky Chong: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: as we wrap up our time. It's been a delight, Nicky. So just a few fun things. So tell me something, tell me what fun or silly tradition you have as a family that keeps you connected? Nicky Chong: One of the things that we do as a family annually on the first day of the year, usually around usually the first few days of the year, we have a tradition where we spend time together to reflect on how God has been with us. So each of us will take the time to write down and then to share the highlights, the lowlights, and then our expectations for the future. So that's something that we do, since my kids were able to intelligibly share, so we do that. So even though like my daughter is right now in Chicago, even when they're overseas, we would make sure because of, we thank God for technology, we would arrange for a FaceTime or a Zoom call where we do that every year. and now that we have a new addition to our family, my daughter just got married, we we Woody McLendon: Congratulations. Nicky Chong: ex we thank you. We ac we expect to include our son-in-law into this tradition about how God, and that's one of the things that that we we do. It's also a fun time because we tend to tease one another and and things like that. So that's yeah, so that that would be one of the things that we do as a family. Woody McLendon: That's beautiful. I what a wonder both fun and spiritually enriching and a point of connection for you as a family to share. Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: Thank you. That's that's a a a beautiful example. So you look around your work you work in your office, tell me something that you see that makes you smile when you look at it. Nicky Chong: ha well my my home is my office so Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: Well, I I know it can sound cliche-ish, but I just love to see my wife, and just smile at her, greet her, I love to see my son, I think I just enjoy being with my family members, they just bring a a big smile to me. Yeah, I think for me probably that's what gives me a lot of joy. And of course, my coffee maker. Woody McLendon: Okay, there you go. Nicky Chong: You probably know that I I drink coffee, and my preference is, I didn't know it at for a long time but only recently I found out what the difference is, but I actually prefer robusta beans. So Woody McLendon: okay. Nicky Chong: instead of arabica, I mean for various reasons, but mainly it's for the taste and the strength and the full-bodied strength of the coffee. So I make my own coffee, and I've got friends who know the type of coffee that I love and bless their heart they would almost every month or two they would bring me bags of coffee. And and I've got this neighbor also. He's just by the way, one of the things I should say that God has really blessed me and my family is is is that we have wonderful, wonderful neighbors. And one of them, and they are some of them are not Christians, but one of them in particular, he's a Christian, Christian family, just lives down the corner, and he has been he and his family has been such a great blessing to our family. And let's say when we have been away overseas for a long time and we are coming back and he would help like get my home ready for me. I still remember one time, I can't remember what context it was, but he actually bought us new pillows and Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: brought us, you know, this get get our bed ready and then I still remember one time when I believe my sister passed away and you know in Singapore some we we we have our funerals and wakes in public space. So we we used one that's down downstairs from our home and we have this tradition in Chinese actually where you have to stay up, hold vigil till the next morning, and I still remember I woke up and my neighbor came to me with a bag of McDonald's breakfast you know without me saying Woody McLendon: my, how nice. Nicky Chong: anything. So, God just looks after us, through my my neighbors, you know, Christian or non-Christian, and we are just very grateful. Yeah, but these are the things that really bring a smile to me, yeah. Woody McLendon: Those are all beautiful examples. I love them. Thank you for sharing. So when you like to relax, what do you typically like to do? Nicky Chong: I love to watch movies. I'm a Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: I'm well I'm a fan especially of murder mysteries. Not that I'm Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: morbid, but I I I love it because I I love those murder mysteries that are comedic in nature. And recently I've become I wouldn't say I've become a K drama fan, but recently my wife and I have been watching some very interesting Korean drama and a lot interesting there are quite a lot of I wouldn't want to say spiritual, but to some extent there's quite a lot of spiritual principles, truths that you can actually see and learn from some of them and and even cultural ones too, of course, and that's really what I do. And I'm I'm a history buff, so Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: I love to read history, especially historical biographies of well-known people. So I read a few I've read like Zhou En Lai, Deng Xiaoping, George Patton, and I read one recently about Richard Nixon and his recovery or redemption from his downfall. Very interesting. Yeah, so because I feel I learn a lot, especially from know, non-Christian sources, I feel like that's that's how I learn also about leadership. Woody McLendon: So another quick question, how many languages do you speak? Nicky Chong: Not very many. As I mentioned, English has basically become my first language and then but I grew up speaking Cantonese. I speak Mandarin. And very, very rudimentary Bahasa Indonesian. So I Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: guess four languages, yeah. Woody McLendon: Well, that's that's still great. So when you read the Bible or listen, which language do you prefer? Nicky Chong: Hmm. I usually read and listen in English, but if I have to preach, I will listen in Cantonese and listen in Mandarin because of my the way my church is, from time to time I have to preach in Mandarin or in Cantonese. Like this coming Sunday I have to preach in Cantonese. Woody McLendon: Wow well, praise God and good for you. That's encouraging. Well, thank you Nicky Chong: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: for those little updates. As we come back for the last couple of questions, I'd Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: as you finished in Wycliffe Singapore, you had a unique opportunity to engage with church leaders in a restricted context country in Asia and Nicky Chong: Mm, yes. Woody McLendon: to try to help get them mobilized. And I was wondering if you could share a bit of insight, things you learned from their example, how you saw their faithfulness. What what did God teach you as you had opportunity to help them understand the ministry of Bible translation more? Nicky Chong: So I I think first of all, I think it's very obvious, the Lord has been raising up a missions task a missions missionary force or missions force if you will, from you know, the churches in East Asia. It's been it's been a long time in doing that. And there was a season of time, I would say there was a period of time, there was quite a lot of openness, even though these are unregistered house churches, but there was an openness in the society as a whole, and they could do quite a lot of things. So there were discipleship movements, missions movements, and there was an integrated movement of reaching the unreached and unengaged people groups within the country. Woody McLendon: Wow. Nicky Chong: And they begin to also realize through the effort of our colleagues, our East Asian network colleagues, that were doing, know, language work in the country, as well as other international organizations that were there, and one of the things that happened over the years was there was a particular partnership platform that we created or started since since 2013 and this particular partnership meeting is where we gather or invite both expatriates as well as national and minority church and mission leaders to come together and share about what's happening in the country in relation to cross-cultural mission to these UUPGs and UPGs. And through these collaborative type of meetings that the need for Bible translation was made. And then they started to then send short-term teams to these places, they started to be trained to do language survey. And then they started to then think about how they can be involved in language work. They need to also be bivocational because of the way the country is, is restrictive and all of that. And so they did it for for quite a while. And because of the way that they are formed, they usually do not do it by themselves. They they do it as an association or as a as a network. And of course, they had to learn many things like why do you need to learn the language of the local people there? Why is oral translation so important, oral Bible story so important? And why do you need member care? And why do you need to mobilize and engage your church? So all these things were new learning points from there. And they all do it of course, under the radar, right, from official authorities and do that. So I praise God that for the six years that we were there, we were given this opportunity to engage with them, to mobilize, to teach, to train, to come alongside them, and to at their invitation, to mentor and to to guide them. Why I said at their invitation is that just just to make a theological point is that I I never assume that when when I go and serve in in in another country, in another context where God's church exists, right? That I have to go and tell them what they should do and should not do. God is constantly Woody McLendon: Amen. Nicky Chong: speaking. He's already prepared, and He's already speaking to His people, His church. So it is our role, is more about going there, coming alongside them, building relationship of trust, hearing together, together, listen together with them, what is God saying to the church there the churches there and how can we serve them to fulfill God's mission for them? That would be our role. And and even this whole idea of Bible translation, it has to be a vision that they themselves see that God is leading them to and it is up to them to take ownership and to embrace it and and then to ask what is our role in s helping them and in serving them. So I I mention all this is but because there's there was this season where there's a openness where they we were able to do all these things fairly openly if I can put it that way. But now with the political pressure on especially since 2017-2018 especially in 2018 many we we we call it the the the Great Purge in 2018 many left and actually the the churches there have been preparing for it. Woody McLendon: Mm-hmm. Nicky Chong: They have been the churches there have been telling their people there will come a time when it's not possible for us to meet together in such large groups. And so now many of them they are meeting in smaller groups. And they continue to be involved in missions, Woody. They continue through their own ways to pull their resources together and to support the work of translation, the work of missions, in limited ways, but they continue to do so. I think the lessons they will tell you is that firstly when they face pressure, such pressure, right, they see it as God's intention to purify the church. So they they don't they don't s necessarily see as a negative thing, but rather they s they see that, perhaps God is He needs to purify His church. And so s these restrictions that they see and all that will will basically weed out those who are maybe not really serious about the gospel. Or maybe there's too much pride in what's happening, and so the church needs to be humbled further. And then to learn also how to grow in unity and collaboration, especially during this time. You cannot do it things by yourself, you have to collaborate, and you have to continue to build on the trust that you already have during the more open years if I can put it this way. Secondly it's an opportunity for the church to be innovative. So Woody McLendon: Okay. Nicky Chong: so they see that i it looks to us like a a door is closed, things are more difficult. But for them it's another opportunity to to be innovative in carrying out God's mission. It's not impossible, it is still possible. so there is still partnership happening even though they no longer meet in big groups but in small groups. There is still the possibility of churches being able to send people out to do language survey, to get involved in oral translation, to help train their church planters and disciple makers in these skills and tools that are needed to do translation. So they will innovate. They will continue Woody McLendon: Amen. Nicky Chong: to be able to do God's work. It does not in any way dampen their passion and their zeal. But rather it actually motivates them to want to continue and more than anything, I think it motivates them to grow in unity, and to ask what are the what are really essential and what are really like things that you shouldn't even be quarreling over. So I think these are the two things that I see from them, that I learn from them. And of course last but not least they always ask that we pray for them. We continue to pray Woody McLendon: Amen. Nicky Chong: for them. Yeah. And pray for ourselves to also know how to serve them, not with our own agenda, but to serve them in accordance to what they think God may be saying to them at this point. And and our part is to listen alongside them and then ask ourselves what can we do to help deliver training? What can we do to help support them, guide them? So I think our role really is to be humble, to come alongside them, to pray with them, and then to maybe we need to make changes to to our own expectations and our own roles if we truly want to serve the church in East Asia. Yeah. Sorry for taking such a long time to Woody McLendon: No, no, no. It's beautiful. I appreciate those reflections. you've you've shared some important principles I want to think about more. That that hardship is about purification and purifying the church, I think, and several other points that I really appreciate. As we come to a close, and these are wonderful thoughts, I'd love to continue on, but we do need to wrap this up. I have one last question. Nicky Chong: Mm-hmm. Woody McLendon: As you see the needs and opportunities in Bible translation and around the world, and particularly in the Asian context, what Nicky Chong: Mm. Woody McLendon: would you encourage current leaders or those that God may be preparing to serve in leadership roles in the future in Bible translation? And what ways would you encourage them to prepare or commit their hearts to serve faithfully in this upcoming season? Nicky Chong: I I would say that have the humility to give up or disabuse yourself of any assumptions that you might have about missions and Bible translation missions. Now, why I say that is that we have entered into, I would say we have entered into an uncharted geopolitical and missional landscape. The conditions that we saw flowering, the flourishing, so to speak, the growing of missions and even Bible translation in missions in the last hundred years or or more, is I I mean not sure is right for me to say, but it's almost like it's an anomaly, because those conditions came about largely because of colonialism and globalization. But we have passed that and the changes in the geopolitical situation means that how we do missions, the type of people we send, the roles of these people, and and because now there is Global Christianity, meaning to say, you probably heard of the term Christian leaders, Christian missions from the majority world is rising. So we need to learn to know how to work with one another, respect one another, and I think the assumptions about sending somebody out there to do mission work and all that, that assumption needs to be re-examined. Because that usually has certain idea of about like we send somebody well-trained to go to another place, we financially support them, and they're there to help these other people, and we just have to somehow find a way for him to have a visa to do that, I think that no longer really works anymore. And we have to we have to rethink about re-examine all those assumptions and have the humility to say that some of our assumptions are wrong or it need they no longer work. So I think that that would be one thing. And I think the the second thing is to understand that the church, by the church churches where the language communities are as well as churches even in the home sending country, they are beginning more and more to realize that Bible translation it is a responsibility and it is actually an integral part of God's mission. Missions organizations like Alliance Organizations or even SIL need to I think spend the time to study and to deeply understand what does it mean for the church to lead in the Bible translation, whether it's the traditional resource sending Alliance Organizations or whether it's organizations that are in the field that have language communities, because of the different contexts, how the church owns and leads the Bible translation movement will be very different. And so I think we need to take the time to understand what God is doing right now, and then to ask, how can we build a relationship of trust, a relationship of collaboration, and to see each other as equals. You know, Woody, it's is it's very we always say yeah, we are all partnership of equals and all that. But the the the truth of the matter is that quite often that's not how we look at one another. And I think I especially those that have better resources need to understand that I may have more resources but it doesn't mean that I am more equal than the other person, than the other Woody McLendon: Right. Nicky Chong: entity that doesn't have those resources. I think it is really quite important for us to spend the time to understand the role of the church in leading Bible translation and and where we fit into that. so yeah. Just these two points Woody McLendon: Thank you. Nicky Chong: I can think of at this point. yeah. Woody McLendon: Wonderful. Well, Nicky, it's been an absolute delight to have this conversation. I'm really touched and grateful for the insights that you've shared, the fun stories, and just your background. Thank you so much for taking the time to join me for this conversation. And I'd like to say thanks to those of you who have listened or watched. Thank you for tuning in and paying attention and participating. And if anything about Nicky's conversation, our conversation together and Nicky's story was an encouragement, then I invite you to share a link to this to someone else who could benefit from hearing about Nicky's journey that would encourage them and their following the Lord in in ministry and in Bible translation. So Nicky, thank you again. Have a wonderful rest of your day and blessings to you. Nicky Chong: Well, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Woody McLendon: Well, my pleasure. God bless bless you and thank you. And until the next episode, thank you so much.