Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 222 - Frederic Sweeney - CEO VedaBio

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Episode 222 - Frederic Sweeney - CEO VedaBio · The BioHub - by Avetix

• 0:06
  So welcome back to another episode of the Bio Hub, the
• 0:09
  Avetics podcast. Today, we're delighted to
• 0:11
  welcome Frederick Sweeney, A seasoned leader at the
• 0:14
  intersection of biotech diagnostics and venture
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  creation. Frederick is the President and
• 0:19
  CEO of Veda Bio, who are a company pushing the boundaries
• 0:23
  of rapid amplification free molecular diagnostics
• 0:27
  technologies with the potential to redefine how we detect
• 0:30
  diseases. So Frederick, look, it's an
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  absolute pleasure to have you on.
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  How are you? Good, I'm really good.
• 0:37
  Thanks. Pleasure is mine.
• 0:38
  Always good to to chat. Yeah, for sure.
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  Let's just start off with a little bit about your journey
• 0:45
  through the field, how you got to where you are today.
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  So you've had a career that spans academic science, you've
• 0:50
  had operating roles in biotech companies and and venture as
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  well. Could you just talk us through
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  your journey through the field, What first part your interest in
• 1:00
  biology and genetics and how that early curiosity eventually
• 1:04
  LED you towards building and leading companies within the the
• 1:07
  diagnostic space? Yeah, I'd be happy to.
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  It's, I'd love to say that it was all planned, but you know
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  how it is like it's a bit of a potpourri of experiences that
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  kind of led me to where I am today.
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  But I think at the core of everything, that's a little bit,
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  you know, the superpower of startups is like you have to,
• 1:26
  you know, try to try to know a little bit about everything.
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  So if from a carrier perspective, I have a technical
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  background in my, my, my PhD in, in DNA repair.
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  So kind of related a little bit to, to what we do here at, at,
• 1:41
  at Veda on the CRISPR side, certainly not the technical
• 1:44
  expert in the company anymore. We have super smart people to do
• 1:48
  that right now, but always been kind of hovering around like 1
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  foot in the venture side, 1 foot on the small start up side.
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  This is my fifth start up here at, at Veda mostly if almost
• 2:02
  exclusively an infectious disease diagnostics.
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  So a bit of a bit of an expertise there, but not on a
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  technical role, mostly on corporate development.
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  I spend most of my care in corporate development for
• 2:13
  start-ups, sometimes as full time operator, sometimes as
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  entrepreneur in residence or venture partner at different
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  venture fund with different kind of layers of responsibilities.
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  And then my only for a not in small start up is working for
• 2:30
  for a great company view merrier, as I'm sure a lot of
• 2:34
  your listeners know, a large infectious disease diagnostic
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  company global based in Lyon, France.
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  And lots of, lots of links between my experience there, the
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  team now that we have Aveda and and some of the stuff that we're
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  trying to do here at at Veda Bio.
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  Amazing. And just to dive into Vida Bio a
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  little bit more and for people that might not be familiar or
• 3:03
  maybe have heard of the company before, can you just give like a
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  brief overview of of what Vida Bio is is building and what
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  problems in diagnostics your you guys are trying to solve as
• 3:13
  well? Yeah, of.
• 3:14
  Course, I mean, it's, this is where I spend a lot of time
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  thinking about South Vida Bio was a company creation from,
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  from a fund called OMX Ventures. OMX Ventures is quite, quite
• 3:27
  well known in the tools in, in the X space with investments as
• 3:30
  10X genomics, for instance, in Twist Biosciences and others, A
• 3:35
  great group and, and really the, the genesis of beta.
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  And I'll get a little bit into it.
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  And, and even though it's a, it's a genuine platform
• 3:45
  technology that the way the company was kind of founded was
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  really around a very specific product and a huge unmet need
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  that we knew that that that was that has been, you know,
• 3:56
  searched for, for many, many years.
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  And if there's one thing to remember about Beta BIOS or
• 4:02
  molecular diagnostic company, So we have a technology that
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  detects molecules of DNA and RNA.
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  But for the very first time we went what we went on this very
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  ambitious goal of being able to detect molecules of DNA and RNA
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  without the need for amplifying the target while still retaining
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  clinically clinical relevance, right.
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  And what does that mean that all of that means?
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  It means that if you think about it from almost from a holistic
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  perspective in the hospitals, now there's amazing tools,
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  whether you think about infectious disease, oncology,
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  etcetera, there's amazing tools to give you a lot of
• 4:38
  information. So have high medical value, as
• 4:41
  we call it. And but the challenge with those
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  is obviously to get clinically relevance, you have to kind of
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  amplify the targets because these, whether you look for
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  pathogens or, or, or circulating DNA, they're, they're in very
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  low abundance. So you have to amplify the DNA
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  using PCR or variation of PCR and then you detect so and it
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  works great in hospital setting because you have the time that
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  you need, you have the cost, the, the, the, the capital that
• 5:08
  you need to buy these instruments.
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  But then Veda BIOS philosophy almost was how do we take that
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  high medical value? What when it matters and you put
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  in the hands of folks who don't have access to it today.
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  And we really honed in on infectious disease.
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  This is the thing that we know very, very well.
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  So that the hypothesis behind, technically behind how to do
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  that take high medical value in the hands of people who don't
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  have access to it was the fact that the, the, the rate limiting
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  steps, so to speak, to build the right tools.
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  So if you decentralize things, obviously it has to be faster,
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  cheaper, easier to use. And if you want to stay
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  faithful, so to speak to the high medical value, how do you
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  cram all these features together?
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  And it kind of like falls apart if you need to amplify the, the
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  target, because then you have PCR, you have temperature
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  cycling, you have a complex instrument, etcetera.
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  So we went on this journey to try to find a way to detect
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  fields of DN and RNA without the need for amplification.
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  And this is some, some things that other folks have tried to
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  do. And, and, and with, you know,
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  relative degrees of successes, IE not a lot of success because
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  it's a very tough problem. And to cut to the chase, that's,
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  you know, if there's one thing to remember, what we do at Beta
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  is we detect pieces of DNA and RNA without the need for
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  amplification. We're using a CRISPR system,
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  which is something that we know extremely well here.
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  We have some great partners as well who helps us think through
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  that. And it removes the need for
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  amplifying the target. So also then what you can now
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  for the very first time think about is bringing these complex
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  tests in the hands of folks who don't have access to it with
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  very rapid Multiplex, low cost, easy to use type of test while
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  still conserving the, the, the multiplexity, so to speak of of
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  of of all the assays. Nice.
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  And you mentioned a little bit there about what the company
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  does. But like just to explain in
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  simple terms like the approach that you guys are using, what
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  what makes it different from traditional diagnostic methods
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  that are out there at the moment?
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  And what advantages do you think you guys could bring in terms of
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  speed, accuracy, accessibility? Like, yeah, just talk us
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  through, talk us through those points.
• 7:23
  Well, let's use a very specific example that that we do at the
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  company, right? So, so we're in the, the world
• 7:28
  of infectious disease diagnostic and, and we're firm believers.
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  And I think the, the, the, the medical community in the market
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  also believes that, you know, when you, if you think about
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  respiratory infection, for instance, you know, when you
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  show up to, you know, in the hospital or the urgent care, you
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  have a fever, you have a cough. Historically, when you think
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  about back in the days, it was really a trial and error game.
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  It was like, OK, what pathogen do you have?
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  I'm going to test for flu, I'm going to test for RSV.
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  Now you're going to test for COVID.
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  These tests are often used serially.
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  Some of them group them with two or three different pathogen in
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  urgent care. But one of the things that we've
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  experienced at the team here was very successful and in have
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  tremendous amount of respect for this company, company called
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  Biofire, which is now owned by BUA Merrier, which really coined
• 8:20
  the term syndromic testing. So syndromic testing is kind of
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  turning the problem on its head a little bit.
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  It's saying, OK, you show up to the hospital with a respiratory
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  infection and instead of doing this trial and error, what I
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  will do is I will take 1 swab and I will give you a multitude
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  of all the potential pathogens, almost all the potential
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  pathogens that you can have in a Multiplex way.
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  So it's one test and with about 45 minutes to an hour you'd get
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  the result that fundamentally changed patient care in
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  hospitals. And we're very fortunate that to
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  have the team around here that actually founded that company,
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  grew that company and set up that company to now what's a
• 8:58
  billion dollar plus business. So, So what we're trying to do
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  at beta here is we're trying to say, well, if you think about
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  this hospital workflow, the, the, the challenge and the
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  problems are exactly the same in the decentralized setting.
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  And when we do that decentralized, especially in the
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  US is urgent, the urgent Care World, right?
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  There's 15,000 urgent cares and, and that's where you go when
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  you're not not as sick enough to go to the ER, etcetera.
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  So, but the requirements, the requirements to have a product
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  that fits this workflow is very, very different than what's in
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  the hospital. It has to be much cheaper and
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  much, as much faster. But the, the, the problem is the
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  same. You show up to the urgent care
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  and you know, I have a, an 11 year old and an 8 year old.
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  I'm in the urgent care at least once a month with something,
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  right? You want to get in, you want to
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  know what you have, you want to get out.
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  If it's a respiratory infection, for instance, the only way to do
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  that know what you have is to do a comprehensive testing.
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  And today the tools available in the urgent care are very
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  limited. They'll test for 1/2, sometimes
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  three if you're lucky, pathogens.
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  The reality is there's dozens of different pathogens that are
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  that responsible. So what you're trying to answer,
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  to finally answer your question is what are we doing that's
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  different than other infectious disease diagnostic is how do you
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  take all that information? How do I test very, you know,
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  again, the platform could be applied to many different
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  things. We're very focused on infectious
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  disease here. How do you test for the 141517
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  different pathogens that's relevant in urgent care without
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  having to build an instrument that cost 10s of thousands of
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  dollars, that test that are hundreds of dollars and turn
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  around times that are close to an hour?
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  And at the core of the technology, the reason these
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  tests are so successful in the hospital is they give
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  comprehensive answers, but because they amplify the DNA,
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  because it's APCR, people now I'm sure are familiar with, you
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  know, COVID testing, you know what PCR is, etcetera.
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  That amplification in the, in the, in the instrument makes it
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  so that you have a lot of things that are happening that makes a
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  test last longer. It limits the, how many
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  pathogens you can test for and it limits the decentralization
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  of the system. What we're doing is we're, we,
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  we figure out a way to eliminate that amplification.
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  So, you know, you test for the packages fully automated and
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  then also then you can allow yourself to have tests that are
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  as comprehensive but much faster and cheaper than than what you
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  used to see in the hospital. And that comprehensiveness of
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  result, I cannot understand how important it is because it's not
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  what we're doing is not just about being a little faster than
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  the competitors or a little cheaper or it's, it's really
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  hard to bring all of these features together.
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  And the only way you can do that is by removing the need for the
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  amplification inside the system. Yeah, amazing sounds exciting.
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  And it like you mentioned then like who are some of those
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  companies that goes to sort of competing against And I never
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  like to use the word competing because ultimately I think what
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  you're doing is for the patients.
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  But if you look at the broader picture like who are the
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  companies that may be doing that similar sort of work to you guys
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  that maybe you are up against in the market?
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  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, I mean
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  infectious disease testing is a massive unmet need.
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  And there's a lot of, I mean, it's 15,000 urgent cares in the
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  US There's 124 million people showing up in an urgent care
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  every year with a sniffle and a cough.
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  So that's a lot of people. So there's, there's space for a
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  lot of different competitors and there's some good, good products
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  out there to test for one or two or three different pathogens.
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  But again, I think being able to bring that comprehensiveness in,
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  in one solution in a turn around time that short enough for the
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  physician to have a conversation with their patients.
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  Because remember, the way to think about the perfect product
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  in urgent care, because that's the world we live in is a it has
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  to be quick, right? Because you're in urgent care
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  about, you know, on average 30 to 45 minutes, if your test
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  takes an hour, you're gone by the time the result comes in.
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  So how do you allow the physician to have a
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  conversational patient? So very quick?
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  It has to be affordable because it's a very different
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  reimbursement and, and, and, and pair system and has to be very
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  easy to use because they use, you know, the Clio wave
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  settings. So there are a couple of,
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  there's a, there's a bunch of companies who are doing like
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  very good rapid single test, very cheap, easy to use single
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  test, some mini panels, etcetera.
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  But bringing that comprehensiveness to the urgent
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  care, kind of bringing that that syndromic testing, to our
• 13:48
  knowledge, there's really nobody who does that today.
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  And that's really what I think our philosophy here is to bring
• 13:55
  this medical sophistication to the urgent care.
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  Because frankly, if you have a sniffle and a cough, you don't
• 14:00
  need to go to the ER. And, and if you're familiar with
• 14:03
  it, with this, the healthcare system in the United States,
• 14:06
  it's very expensive for to go to the ER.
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  So there's a big push to decentralize #1 and #2 also it
• 14:13
  allows to bring that sophistication into rural
• 14:17
  environments, which you know, as you think about it, the best
• 14:21
  tests are done in hospital setting.
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  So it doesn't touch the people that need it probably the most
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  people in rural environment, people in lower income
• 14:30
  environment. So we're really trying to push
• 14:32
  that towards towards the the less fortunate basically.
• 14:39
  Yeah, for sure. Fine.
• 14:43
  You, you mentioned before, so the company was a spin out from
• 14:47
  OM expenses like when you I guess before you had even joined
• 14:53
  Veda Bio, what had initially impressed you about maybe the
• 14:56
  people behind Veda Bio and what qualities do you think make this
• 15:01
  team particularly well positioned to execute on the
• 15:04
  vision that you guys have set out to do as well?
• 15:07
  Yeah. I mean, it's, it's, it's an
• 15:10
  interesting question because it was set up so or there's nothing
• 15:14
  when we came in, right? It was basically an idea on a
• 15:17
  napkin. And that's really kind of Craig
• 15:19
  and and Dan, a superpower at omics is to find kind of like
• 15:25
  the, I would call it idea on a napkin.
• 15:28
  And then for me personally, from a, from a, what I, you know, one
• 15:31
  of my goals, like personal goals and stuff, I was always kind of,
• 15:35
  I've been involved in start-ups, like I said earlier, but
• 15:37
  creating something from scratch was always super interesting for
• 15:42
  me. So, and Craig and I, Craig Asher
• 15:44
  and I have been friends for, for a long time.
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  And, and basically Craig called me up as a diligence advisor
• 15:49
  because I've been, you know, in the world of infectious and
• 15:51
  diagnostic for a very long time. And I said, hey, look, there's
• 15:54
  this idea on the napkin spin up for University of Illinois in
• 15:59
  Urbana Champaign. Professor Rashid Bashir's lab
• 16:02
  was, was phenomenal. I said Dean of biomedical
• 16:05
  engineers over there. And, and actually, frankly, I
• 16:08
  was pretty skeptical at the time because we had spent so much
• 16:11
  time when I was running corporate development at the O
• 16:13
  merrier to look for this Holy Grail of amplification, free
• 16:17
  detection. I was super skeptical at times.
• 16:19
  Like, you know what, probably not going to work.
• 16:22
  I'm not sure, but we could like with the initial data, we
• 16:25
  convinced herself like that, hey, look, that has that has
• 16:29
  great potential to be what we've been looking for.
• 16:32
  But you know how it is you set up the company and then you put
• 16:35
  a little bit of money and then you get some data, you put in
• 16:37
  more money and then put some data.
• 16:38
  And then finally we close a $40 million Series A that we've
• 16:42
  announced in October 23. The company has been had been
• 16:46
  set up till the since the end of 21 and was stealth for that that
• 16:50
  amount of time. So, so really the, the, the
• 16:54
  superpower of any startup is the team, right, First and foremost.
• 16:58
  And you just, you just mentioned and we've basically built the
• 17:02
  team based on the product we wanted to.
• 17:04
  And it is personally for me, probably the most fun part was
• 17:08
  to go back to my former colleagues that you were used to
• 17:12
  work together, you and Mary, you're in bio fire and and say,
• 17:16
  hey, look, guys, I think we found it.
• 17:19
  Do you kind of want to get together again and and do it, do
• 17:22
  it and that the team here is just absolutely phenomenal And
• 17:26
  and it's it's the I cannot I will talk for you hours about
• 17:31
  the power of a good team, right? Because as where I'm sitting,
• 17:35
  there's nothing more reassuring that to know that I'm surrounded
• 17:37
  by a people that are much smarter than I am B extremely
• 17:42
  experienced in their areas of expertise.
• 17:44
  And it just makes, you know, the company grow.
• 17:48
  And, and of course there's, there's bumps in the roads and
• 17:51
  stuff, but we've kind of all worked together in the way shape
• 17:53
  or form too. So we're kind of used to it.
• 17:55
  It's kind of like, OK, there's a problem that happens, let's roll
• 17:57
  up our sleeve and solve it. So it's what impressed me at the
• 18:01
  beginning, Frankie was the opportunity to be frank, right?
• 18:04
  It was. And then having omics as as an
• 18:07
  investor, knowing that, you know, they have an amazing
• 18:11
  reputation. They're very kind of kind of
• 18:13
  founder friendly company creators.
• 18:15
  They understand the highs and lows of starting a company.
• 18:18
  We had the right initial team with the investors and, and, and
• 18:22
  some of the folks originally. And then as we grow, we made
• 18:25
  sure that we bring we bring the right people with the right
• 18:27
  expertise at the right time. Yeah, for sure.
• 18:33
  And I know you get, you mentioned then you guys have
• 18:36
  raised your Series A round a couple of years back and then
• 18:39
  now you're looking at raising a Series B round.
• 18:42
  Could you just talk us through like how that process is going?
• 18:45
  I know it's been incredibly difficult over the past few
• 18:47
  years to to raise funds, although there's definitely
• 18:50
  signs that it's getting better. But yeah, talk us through how
• 18:53
  the Series B raises coming along and like what, what and what
• 18:57
  will that money enable you to do for the next phase of the
• 19:00
  company as well? Yeah, No, I mean, that's what we
• 19:03
  do, right? You raise money and it's just
• 19:04
  like it's like I always say, like it's like driving a stunt
• 19:08
  plane and then like you raise more money and then and you're
• 19:12
  absolutely right. I mean a working backwards,
• 19:15
  right, I think. But number one, our data, I
• 19:19
  would say like the data will set you free, right.
• 19:21
  So the data looks absolutely phenomenal, which helps
• 19:25
  tremendously for us, but also the, the market needs to
• 19:28
  cooperate, right. And and the market today is, is
• 19:32
  a bit more favorable than it was.
• 19:33
  I mean last year was absolutely the last couple of years
• 19:36
  absolutely horrible. And we were kind of fortunate
• 19:38
  that we had closer Series A, we had raised enough capital, we
• 19:42
  were capital efficient. So that allowed us to kind of
• 19:45
  almost like fly through kind of the 2024 and in 2025.
• 19:52
  And I'm giving a bit a long story to lead to the Series B,
• 19:54
  but that that's kind of important because I think it's
• 19:57
  all part of the puzzle. In 2025, we had interest from a
• 20:03
  couple of strategic partners to, you know, to to partner in
• 20:08
  different ways, shape or form, right, whether it was equity
• 20:10
  investment, partnership, etcetera.
• 20:12
  So we run a bit of a process and and we partner with Siemens
• 20:15
  Health and years. That's, that's been announced, I
• 20:19
  think late, late summer, early early fall of, of last year.
• 20:23
  And they've been amazing, amazing partners for us, help us
• 20:25
  think through certain things. And, and that really also helps,
• 20:29
  right? Like raising money is a bit of
• 20:31
  a, you know, it's like you make a Stew and you have to have all
• 20:33
  the right ingredients. You have to have obviously the
• 20:37
  right team, the right investor base, strategic partner with
• 20:41
  high credibility also really helps you have the market that
• 20:44
  cooperates. So on the heels of that, then we
• 20:48
  have our series B coming through.
• 20:51
  I mean, it's, it's a typical series BI mean it's, it's the
• 20:53
  process is running, you know, really good, really well, much
• 20:57
  better, frankly, than it would have been last year because it
• 21:00
  feels like a normal fundraising process.
• 21:04
  And there's, there's always, I think our story is actually
• 21:08
  quite relatable, right? You know, if I can tell you that
• 21:12
  you go with your kid to the urgent care and for the very
• 21:14
  first time it can be in and out in 15 minutes and know what you
• 21:17
  have more than 80% of the time. Just people get it.
• 21:20
  Right. And that's like, oh, by the way,
• 21:21
  there's 125 million people who do that every year.
• 21:24
  I mean, it's that's number one. Number two is the team, right.
• 21:27
  So, so a lot of our team is the former bio Fire team like I say.
• 21:31
  And again, I'm humbled everyday working with these folks,
• 21:34
  whether it's Randy's on their board or Rachel's our Chief
• 21:37
  commercial officer or head of PMO or you know, it really
• 21:43
  creates an instant credibility that's fundraising that we raise
• 21:47
  will hopefully be enough to get us all the way to
• 21:49
  commercialization. And we've been pretty under the
• 21:52
  radar. I don't really necessarily
• 21:54
  broadcast like exactly where we are or how much money we've
• 21:59
  raised etcetera because we're just really focused on building
• 22:02
  a product. But the point is that
• 22:04
  fundraising is going to let us all the way to
• 22:05
  commercialization, early commercialization, obviously to
• 22:10
  raise along the way because you know, commercialization is
• 22:13
  getting to the to the finish line in terms of, of the
• 22:16
  clearance of commercializing is one thing.
• 22:17
  But then you have to build the capabilities to, you know,
• 22:20
  obviously, you know, as we're doing this manufacturing
• 22:25
  commercial team, etcetera. So we will also obviously raise
• 22:28
  another, another round down the road.
• 22:31
  But that's hopefully that's that will happen very soon and and
• 22:34
  that's going to allow us to just put our head down and and do
• 22:38
  what we do. Nice.
• 22:39
  That's exciting. And like, like you've obviously
• 22:42
  had a lot of experience in the diagnostic space, you know this
• 22:46
  space very, very well. How would you describe the
• 22:49
  current state of of the diagnostics industry and have
• 22:53
  there been any major shifts or trends that you think are
• 22:56
  shaping the field right now? Yeah.
• 22:59
  I mean, it's a great, it's a great question.
• 23:00
  And I think, I think that if you have to look historically a
• 23:03
  little bit where it's, so, I mean, obviously I cannot do a
• 23:13
  podcast without mentioning the COVID era, right?
• 23:16
  Because in, in, in our space. And that created a kind of a,
• 23:20
  again, a gold rush of, of things.
• 23:24
  The good news with the gold rush is there's a lot of capital
• 23:26
  being deployed. The bad news is there's a lot of
• 23:28
  capital, but they put the points in, in companies that are not
• 23:30
  really good, right? And, and there's always a
• 23:33
  hangover, right, you know, on, on that gold rush.
• 23:37
  So I think what we've seen is a on the positive with that gold
• 23:41
  rush, we saw a capital being deployed and fundamental
• 23:45
  technologies like CRISPR for instance, right?
• 23:47
  So, so allowing people to take risks on technologies that were
• 23:52
  at least for what we're doing, totally unproven and fail,
• 23:56
  right. So there's a couple of companies
• 23:57
  that fail and we get some learnings around that.
• 23:59
  And we're very fortunate that we've kind of learned a lot from
• 24:01
  that. And we kind of call it the
• 24:02
  second generation. So that's number one.
• 24:05
  I think #2 it educated the, the population, frankly, of the
• 24:09
  value of diagnostics, the value of rapid results, the, the, the
• 24:16
  difference between an antigen test and APCR molecular test.
• 24:20
  Like before COVID, no, nobody knew what the difference was,
• 24:23
  but it's very important. So that's like the positive.
• 24:26
  It really put diagnostic, the importance of diagnostic.
• 24:28
  The negative is, well, a lot of companies that probably didn't
• 24:31
  deserve as much money failed. So some people lost money along
• 24:34
  the way. So we saw a bit of a hangover
• 24:37
  and I would say like kind of in the 2223 time frame.
• 24:41
  And again, we were, but it's not by design really, but we were
• 24:46
  fortunate to have raised that money.
• 24:47
  So we can just put our heads down and do our work and kind of
• 24:50
  build data. And you know, what you're seeing
• 24:52
  now is, is a bit of an uptick actually, frankly in
• 24:55
  diagnostics, especially driving through the oncology space, you
• 24:59
  see a lot of value in oncology diagnostics, you see some really
• 25:01
  good transaction and that basically by osmosis really
• 25:04
  helps, helps the field. But at the end of the day, in
• 25:08
  the world we live in, in diagnostics, you have to build a
• 25:11
  product that solves a problem. And it sounds so cliche to say,
• 25:15
  but you'd be amazed, right? So people say, oh, I have this
• 25:19
  really good technology and, you know, I'll build something and
• 25:22
  someone's going to want to buy it at the end.
• 25:24
  That's really the opposite way of thinking about it.
• 25:27
  We have spent decades here. If you calculate the amount of
• 25:30
  experience, thinking about urgent care, thinking about
• 25:33
  what's the perfect product. And that's the story that we
• 25:36
  have. It happens that we have this
• 25:37
  amazing CRISPR platform that's amplification free.
• 25:40
  And yeah, that that platform can do much more than infectious
• 25:43
  disease diagnostic. But the only thing we think
• 25:46
  about here is to build that product and to build that
• 25:48
  cartridge and to build these tests.
• 25:51
  So the product focus also really, really helps because it
• 25:55
  allows you to justify that kind of rise from the crop, so to
• 25:59
  speak, which is all the other noise that you're seeing in in
• 26:02
  you're still seeing some noise frankly in diagnostic today.
• 26:05
  Yeah, for sure. And you mentioned so Om Om X
• 26:09
  Ventures funds that helped start the company early on.
• 26:15
  But in addition to Vita Bio, you were also involved with OMX
• 26:18
  Ventures as well. Could you just talk us through a
• 26:21
  little bit about your role there and how that works sort of
• 26:24
  complements your experience as a as a company operator having
• 26:28
  that experience on the venture side as well?
• 26:31
  Like I have to say, my copious spare time, you know, as, as you
• 26:36
  know, venture funds are really tight, tight partnerships.
• 26:39
  And it's very important that the partnerships are are, you know,
• 26:41
  work very well together. There's a trust with each other.
• 26:45
  And and I think what what Craig and the team has done extremely
• 26:49
  well is to almost like put pieces of the puzzle together.
• 26:53
  Like none of us kind of are are the same, but they're kind of
• 26:57
  complement each other both from AI think importantly from a
• 27:00
  technical expertise and operational expertise.
• 27:04
  So, so I kind of came through omics via this opportunity from
• 27:08
  like the very early beta bio. And then going forward as a
• 27:14
  venture partner as in I'm sure, I'm sure some of you obviously
• 27:17
  some some of you audience know there's almost like in venture,
• 27:19
  there's 2 tracks really in my mind, that's how I kind of
• 27:21
  codified. There's the investment track and
• 27:24
  this operating track where you have entrepreneur in residence
• 27:27
  and venture partners and operating partners where take a
• 27:29
  much more active role within Portfill companies.
• 27:32
  And that's, that's my that, that I would say that was, that was
• 27:35
  my role 'cause I was doing it much, much more before.
• 27:38
  But then in January of 24 when I took full time role as president
• 27:42
  CEO, it's, it's, it's, it's a full time job.
• 27:44
  It's really, really difficult, if not impossible to do more
• 27:48
  than at least for me to do more than one thing.
• 27:50
  Well. So I'm helping, I'm obviously
• 27:52
  helping Craig and the team with diligence and networking and
• 27:54
  deal flow and, and these things. But but 98% of my day-to-day is
• 27:59
  is focused on on beta bio today. Yeah, amazing.
• 28:03
  And just to move on. So I think like building any
• 28:08
  company from the ground up can be incredibly difficult,
• 28:10
  particularly anything in life sciences.
• 28:13
  You've obviously got science involved.
• 28:16
  It's very unpredictable on the regulation.
• 28:19
  The markets can shift at any point.
• 28:22
  What have you found to be some of the biggest challenges you've
• 28:25
  encountered when creating and scaling companies in this space
• 28:28
  and and from an earlier early stage as well?
• 28:32
  Since. You found?
• 28:34
  Yeah, Yeah. How much time do you have?
• 28:37
  There's a lot of. Time I think the way to think
• 28:40
  about it, I think the way I think about it in my mind is
• 28:42
  there's every stage of companies has its sweet is is is buffet of
• 28:51
  challenges, right And and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 28:55
  I think #1 is if you ignore them or if you pretend they don't
• 28:59
  exist, that's very, very difficult.
• 29:01
  That's very dangerous. Or if you align yourself with in
• 29:05
  either investors, board members who don't appreciate how
• 29:09
  difficult it is. Because at the end of the day,
• 29:12
  what you want is you want to create an environment at every
• 29:17
  stage where there's like, think about it, like from idea on a
• 29:20
  napkin to seed, from seed to Series A, from Series A to B and
• 29:25
  and etcetera. At every stage you want to have
• 29:29
  a supporting group of, you know, teammates, colleagues, board
• 29:34
  investor, and we have to talk about the problems, right?
• 29:38
  Because I always say my job is to, there's nothing I can be
• 29:41
  helpful. I tell the Pete, the team here,
• 29:44
  you can tell me a good news. There's nothing I can do about
• 29:47
  it apart from being happy. My job is to deal with the
• 29:49
  challenges, right? And to if we have a, a blind
• 29:52
  spot here, if we have a bad result there, how do we just
• 29:55
  roll up our sleeve and do it? How do I communicate this with
• 29:57
  our board and our investors? And that happens along the way.
• 30:00
  So I mean, to give you a precise, and I mean the
• 30:03
  obviously at the very, very early stage, I mean, it's the
• 30:07
  science, it's all about the science.
• 30:09
  You, you kind of know what product you want to build.
• 30:11
  This is how beta started. We know exactly what product we
• 30:13
  want to build, but then the science had to meet the
• 30:17
  requirements of the product. So that's, that's number one.
• 30:20
  And there's highs and lows and, and, you know, the board knows
• 30:23
  here we've been sent to some highs and lows and, and, but you
• 30:26
  come out of it, on the other hand, a often with a much better
• 30:29
  science, a better product and a tighter team.
• 30:32
  So that's kind of the CT Series A then, then I think that the
• 30:36
  big Series A thing is like the, the, the, the funding and how
• 30:39
  you start thinking about that's how we start having a little bit
• 30:42
  of processes. You don't want to overburden the
• 30:44
  processes, but at the same time, you don't want to process less
• 30:47
  because there's a bunch of people running around.
• 30:49
  And then in our world of diagnostic, which is a maybe a
• 30:52
  bit different than biotech, you have to think about.
• 30:56
  And you, you just mentioned it, right?
• 30:57
  It's not just it's, it goes beyond FDA for us getting FDA
• 31:03
  clearance. We're 20% of the way there, you
• 31:07
  know, to build a successful company and you have to make
• 31:09
  sure you have your reimbursement all figured out, your
• 31:12
  manufacturing, your scale, your supply, your commercial team,
• 31:17
  you know, etcetera, etcetera. So, so we're looking at it as a
• 31:22
  much longer horizon as well. But you have to think about
• 31:26
  these things like the way we think frankly about
• 31:29
  reimbursement for us, we start to think about it at feasibility
• 31:33
  because we have to build our test a certain way that make
• 31:36
  sure that it fits within the reimbursement.
• 31:38
  So that's where the experience comes in.
• 31:39
  So in other words, very long answer to your question, but
• 31:43
  every single challenge, the challenge that we are in here
• 31:45
  today, frankly for me is scale, right?
• 31:49
  And it's operational scale is the consequence, but the scaling
• 31:55
  of the people, right? Because we have such a precious
• 31:59
  amazing culture now in this company that continuing to build
• 32:05
  that in the way that it's kind of organic is a huge, it's, it's
• 32:09
  a huge challenge, right? So if you scale the company
• 32:13
  properly, then your operational scaling would be good.
• 32:15
  So that's, that's the big challenge that we're going to
• 32:17
  start thinking about now is like, how do we go from, you
• 32:20
  know, we're 20 people now to, I don't know, 4060 people in three
• 32:24
  years from now? And how do you do that in a way
• 32:27
  that you, you keep that gem of a culture that we have today?
• 32:32
  That's going to be a challenge. Yeah, amazing.
• 32:36
  And just to finish this off, and this is a question that we
• 32:39
  always ask with people that come on as well.
• 32:42
  But if you were to sit down and invite any three people from
• 32:46
  past or present for for a dinner, who would you pick and
• 32:50
  why? It doesn't necessarily need to
• 32:51
  be people from from the industry.
• 32:54
  It can be sports people, it can be business people, it could be
• 32:59
  whoever you like. Yeah, no, I I think you said
• 33:02
  that question before and I was, I was kind of noodling on it and
• 33:04
  thinking about it. And this is a very tough
• 33:06
  question because I don't want to be, you know, I being it's hard
• 33:14
  to to do start-ups, right? And, and, and, and I think
• 33:20
  what's very helpful and is learning from different mentors
• 33:26
  and, and, and not so much to feed from other people's
• 33:29
  miseries and mistakes, but to learn from them and saying, Hey,
• 33:32
  look, you know, I make mistakes all the time.
• 33:35
  And at the end of the day, it's kind of like, hey, look, it's
• 33:37
  part of the game, right? So, you know, sitting down with
• 33:41
  people that have done startups over and over again, this is
• 33:44
  something I always like to do and I learn and I ask questions
• 33:47
  etcetera to give you like, I mean, names, you know, I would,
• 33:53
  I would have loved to sit down with and this is not political
• 33:57
  at all, right. But you know, the way like a
• 34:03
  like an Obama, for instance, the way he speaks and poise and you
• 34:06
  know, because that's I think it's, you know, the challenges
• 34:10
  and and stuff. So that that's, that's one thing
• 34:12
  I'd be super curious. I I've been a huge fan of kind
• 34:17
  of leadership things. So so whether it's a sitting
• 34:20
  down with a Simon Sinek and see how he thinks about leadership
• 34:24
  and and in different organization and has you grow
• 34:27
  and you know, so that's that's another one.
• 34:33
  Yeah. But again, like it doesn't
• 34:34
  matter the the prestige of the person for me, it's really right
• 34:38
  in my mind. Like someone who's like went
• 34:40
  through the grits of doing a company starting making
• 34:46
  mistakes, kind of picking himself or herself up and doing
• 34:51
  it again. That's that's my best, that's my
• 34:54
  best dinners, honestly. And I can share some of my highs
• 34:59
  and lows as well. Then at the end of the day, we
• 35:00
  all feel better because we we fed from each other's
• 35:04
  experiences. So I don't know, it's not a
• 35:07
  super precise answer for you. I apologize, but yeah, I think
• 35:12
  just talking about building companies, it's it's very, very
• 35:17
  valuable for me. Yeah, amazing.
• 35:20
  Well, yeah, some great answers there.
• 35:21
  And thanks again for coming on and helping us out with this.
• 35:24
  It was a pleasure to hear a bit more about your journey, your
• 35:27
  thoughts on the diagnostics perspective, diagnostic space
• 35:31
  and ultimately on Vita bio, which sounds super exciting,
• 35:34
  what you guys are building. So, Fred, it was a pleasure.
• 35:37
  Thanks again for coming on and helping us out with this and
• 35:40
  look forward to keeping in touch.
• 35:42
  Thanks Tom, it was a pleasure talking to you anytime.