Latest / Typology / Learning to Reconnect: A Path to Self-Acceptance with Carlos Whittaker

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Learning to Reconnect: A Path to Self-Acceptance with Carlos Whittaker · Typology

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Hey, folks, and welcome to Typology, the
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show on which we explore the mystery of the human personality and
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the human adventure all through the lens of the Enneagram.
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My name is Anthony Skinner, producer and co-host.
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So happy to have you here, folks. We've got one of my favorite people
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on the show today. Long time friend. We actually connected
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forever ago in Nashville, writing
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a song together. That's right. We were booked. He didn't live in Nashville
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yet, and we were booked together to write a song that
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day. Spent the afternoon together. Been friends ever since. Talking
0:41
about Carlos Whittaker, Enneagram 3. If
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you remember last time Carlos came onto the show, he
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thought he was a 9. And we suggested, you may not
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be nine, and you might want to look at three. That's what we talk about today,
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as well as we talk about his brand new book, Reconnected,
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how seven screen-free weeks with monks
1:02
and Amish farmers helped me recover the lost art of
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being human. Talking to Carlos Whitaker, he's authored
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multiple books. You probably know him as Loswit, L-O-S-W-I-T,
1:15
on Instagram. He's got 300,000 followers there. He
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is an influencer, and the really exciting thing
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is, as a three, he shut everything down and
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went away and spent time with monks and
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Amish farmers, and more importantly, with himself, without
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any screens, without any distractions, and found
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something really beautiful about himself. And we talk about that today. Love,
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Carlos. Glad he's on the show. Glad you're here on the show. That's it
1:45
for me, Anthony Skinner. And now, here is the host of
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Hey, Typology Tribe, Ian Morgan Krohn here, host
2:01
of the show on which we explore the mystery of the human personality
2:06
and the human adventure all through the lens of the Enneagram
2:10
and scintillating conversation between myself, my
2:14
good friend, Anthony Skinner, and today, our guest,
2:19
Carlos Whitaker. Now, this is a story. This
2:22
is a story, people. All right. So
2:26
Carlos was on the show, I don't know, maybe a year ago, nine months ago, a
2:29
year ago? A little over a year ago, I think. Okay. Yeah,
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I'm losing track of time. And when
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he's on the show, he reports in as a nine. And
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we were like, OK. Now, sometimes people come
2:44
on the show. And again, I really do believe don't
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type other people as a rule. Like, don't do it, right? If
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the cat thinks he's a nine, well, maybe he's a nine. And I just wouldn't have
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guessed that. But I can't see your unconscious motivations. So
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regardless of how you might appear to me, I'm like,
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OK. Well, we get about 20 minutes into the conversation, and
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I'm like. The old antennae. And now I'm like,
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hmm. I don't know.
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So then we're like, gee, Carlos, dude,
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I'm not saying you're not a nine, but I wonder what it would be like for you to
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investigate another type, and particularly maybe checking out
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Enneagram 3, and then this has begun a bit of a
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So this is what happened. What happened is, I'll go ahead and let everyone know
3:35
that before I even, you know, I love Ian, I love Anthony,
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I love that, but I was not like in any of grammar. Like,
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I wasn't like, you know, really deeply studying who I was. People
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had just told me, Carlos, you're nine. People have been like, hey, Carlos,
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I mean, look at the way you're just keeping the peace, like you're just chill,
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like you're nine. So I just was like, you know. Okay,
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I'm a nine. And maybe I'd read a couple things about being a nine. So that's just
3:59
kind of if I'm ever at dinner conversation in Nashville, Tennessee, 99% of
4:03
the dinners you go to, people are gonna start talking about Enneagram. And so
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I just was like, sweet, this is kind of where it went. Well, then I have a
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conversation with you. both of you, and you
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just were questioning my 9-ness a little bit more than I thought I
4:17
was going to be questioned. And I was like, what's going on here? And
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then you're like, well, have you ever read anything about a 3? And
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to be fair, I had not. I had not really honestly
4:29
looked up any other number besides people would accuse me of being a
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7. I say accuse me of being a 7. They would just say I was because I
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guess whatever reasons they would have to do that. And
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I was like, no, I'm definitely not a 7. That wears me out. So what
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I did is I went and I just read your book.
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And I was like, okay, let me just do this. And I did the audio book. And honestly,
4:51
when I, when I, cause I think it actually, the book starts, starts
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with the nine, like the nine is before the three. You're explaining? Yeah.
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Yeah. It goes eight, nine, one. Yeah, yeah, and so
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it was like 8, 9, 1, yeah, and then so I just remember getting to the 9 first
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as I'm listening to the audiobook, and I was like,
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okay, I could see why I would say that
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I'm this. But then, Then when
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it got to the three, it was like somebody gave me an
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inhaler. If you're an asthmatic, and you'll understand this,
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it's like I was breathing at like 50% of knowledge of
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who I was as a nine. I was like, oh. But then when I read
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the chapter on three, it was like I took a hit of that inhaler. And
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suddenly I went from breathing at 50% to like 100%. And I was like, oh. Whoa.
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That's what it felt like. It literally felt like I didn't
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know I wasn't breathing, I guess was the play there. you
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know, reading through kind of what it
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was to be a nine verse a three, everything
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about the three, like I would say, and again, I don't really know
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how all the Enneagram stuff completely works, but I would say there's definitely
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things, nine things that I relate to, but it was like
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All right, so that actually beautifully describes how I think the journey is
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for a lot of people, right? So the fact is, Carlos, you
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are all nine types. You contain all nine types to
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some degree or another, right?
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Some percentage of each type to another, right? Yeah. But
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Yeah. And you have a particular connection to nine because- Yes,
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Mm. So when threes are
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under a lot of stress, they begin to
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act, think, and feel a lot like unhealthy nines. Really?
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Yeah. So it's not surprising at all that you would say, gosh, there's
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a lot of nine that I can see in myself. Yeah. Well, if you think about times
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when you're really stressed, you probably look, act, and feel a lot like a
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nine. You're a three, but you will begin to take on
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a lot of similarities to people
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in the nine space, right? Absolutely. So
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again, this is like a very typical thing. When people finally
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get to their type and they have this sort of epiphanic moment,
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you described it as like taking a hit off an inhaler, right? And suddenly you're,
7:23
Like, oh, right? And of course, you don't have to
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identify with 100% of what we say about threes, just
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Yeah, yeah. Well, and I think for me, a lot of it came
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on understanding even my behavior
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as an entrepreneur and as a kind
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of business mind. I'm just a lot, I think, a lot more go-getter,
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goal-driven than I was giving myself credit for
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when I was just kind of thinking about who I was. And I was like, well, wait a
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second, I actually When I make my mind up to do something, I
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actually do it. I'm a salesman, man. I will sell freaking
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ice to Eskimo or whatever. And then I just started
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seeing all of these things in three. And I was like, oh, wait
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a second. And that's when I started really chewing on
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the fact that the whole unhealthy version of me, because
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I can get lazy. I can get really lazy. And
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I think the unhealthy part of me gets into that lazy
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Yeah, usually when you're under pressure or stress, or when you feel like you don't have
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a goal, or you don't think the goal is worth charging
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after, or you're ready for a new goal or something, you
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can kind of sink into a kind of a, what I kind of sort of say,
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like this lazy river kind of vibe. But
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it also feels a little depressed. Yes. And
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goal lists. If you don't have enough goals, if you don't have enough metrics to
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determine whether or not you're meeting your goals, then you can
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fall into unhealthy nine kinds of patterns
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of thinking, feeling, and behaving. And that's where, you
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know, if you know the Enneagram, you can begin to say to yourself in
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those moments, ah, I now have self-awareness, and I see that I am getting depressed
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and listless, and I'm watching too much TV, and I'm eating too much. I'm
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not caring enough about my appearance. I'm withdrawing more
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from people instead of moving out toward people. What do
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I need to do to get into a healthier place? So those then
9:23
become flags where you're able to say, ah, I
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need to do something different. So, you have a new
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book, it's called Reconnected, and the subtitle is, How
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Seven Screen-Free Weeks with Monks and Amish Farmers Helped
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Me Recover the Art of Being Human. Now, this is a very interesting
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title for a three, so I want to dive more into threeness here
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with you, and I want to dive into the experience of what
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this experience was like for a
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three in particular. Now, just
9:55
by way of background, and you weigh in as we go, so
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threes, the achievers, sometimes called the performers, they
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have a need to succeed, to appear successful, and to avoid failure
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at all costs. They are more concerned in
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their average state with seeming than with
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being. In other words, it's as
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important to the three that they seem successful, interesting,
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charismatic, as actually being. Yeah.
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Right? Now you're really preaching to my soul. All
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Because in the eyes of others, the three wants to
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Admired. Yes. Yeah. Now, the big
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fear of the three is that they're worthless, that they have no
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value. And that is
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something they carry very sort of at the deepest level of their person.
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So let's just start there, because that elicited a response from
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I didn't necessarily know it was a fear for
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me until I signed off
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of Instagram before my seven weeks of
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not looking at a screen and I hit post. And the second I hit post,
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Yes, yes. So like I didn't, I gave up everything.
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I gave up social media. Not only social, I didn't look at
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a screen. I didn't consume anything from a screen. So when
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I signed off and said, hey guys, I'm disappearing for a few weeks. I don't know what's going on.
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And I hit post. Legitimately, I had
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like, I started sweating. My heart started palpitating. And I was like, what is happening?
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through therapy after this and a
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lot of things, I realized very quickly that my identity
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and my worth was based on my performance on
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socials. That so much of where
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I was finding my worth was based on other people's
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applause, whether that be through likes, whether that be through DMs, whether
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that be through reposts, whatever it is. And suddenly what I was doing was
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I was giving that performer piece
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up, not only was I giving it up, but then I was moving
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into a monastery and then from there to an
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Amish community where nobody could give a rat's ass about
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who I was. Nobody cared about anything. Nobody knew who
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I was. Nobody knew any of the things that I've succeeded in. So it
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was like a double whammy. Not only was I taking away my
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ability to rank my success on a daily basis, but I
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was entering into communities where
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they didn't care. So
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it was like two, it was like a left hook and a right hook all
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at one time. And so as a three, when I look back at
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this experiment that I did on myself, it was like
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going through withdrawals. I mean, like legitimately, like it was
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physical manifestations of anxiety going through my body for
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the first few days because I was coming off maybe the drug of
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performance. And here's the crazy thing, I've
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not talked about, I've not even looked at this book through the
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eyes of an Enneagram three or my experience, the
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seven screen for weeks this way. So anything I'm telling you right now is just vomit
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Yeah, so we call that narcissistic supply. Yeah,
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there we go. And everybody, by the way, so it's
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not saying you're a narcissist. It's just a term. Narcissistic supply
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has to do with your drug of
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choice is the admiration, the recognition
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of other people. And when that's cut off, it's
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Well, for example, depression, anxiety, but
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also for a three, a loss of identity. Yeah. Because
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the three does this thing called identification. And
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you had over-identified who you are with
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your public persona. Yes. Now listen, I'm just going
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to tell you, we could have a really deep conversation right now. Yeah. Let's
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have it. Yeah. Let's just have a rich conversation. Let's just have it. You,
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if you were to go deeper into the work, would
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realize, you probably already have after seven
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weeks with the Amish farmers, that a lot of your life
14:30
has been a shtick. It's been about a public
14:34
persona that actually isn't real. It's a
14:38
persona, so it's not real. It's not actually you. It's
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a projection of, it's an image that you project, but
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it's not real. And
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when the image comes down and you no longer get
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supplied with admiration that it gives you, and strokes
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and money and acclimation, whatever, then
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you start to spiral. Yeah. You're
15:04
nodding your head a lot. I don't want to talk too much, because you may be telling me you have
15:09
You're reading, you're literally just reading chapter two of my book, like
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without even reading it. Like you're expressing what
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I went through. You're legitimately chapter two
15:19
of my book. Or maybe, no, chapter one is called Identity, because
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that was the first thing that I lost. Like when I showed up at
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this monastery, it was gone. And
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it was four days, I
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would say, maybe three and a half days of complete and total agony,
15:38
terror. I'm using these words that people may think, OK,
15:42
Carlos, come on, really? But legitimately, when
15:46
I didn't have the ability to get
15:49
out of my own head with scrolling Instagram or TikTok or whatever, when I
15:52
was stuck in my own head, right? I'm just stuck there. Like I can't leave it because
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I don't have a device to remove me from my own head. And
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as I'm walking with, because I spent the first two weeks with the monks, right? And
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23 hours a day of silence. It was
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legitimately coming off of, I was crashing off
16:11
of the drug of notoriety, of me projecting
16:15
this character. I started talking about it in my book as, it
16:18
was just a character. Lois Witt is a character. That's what people call
16:22
me on Instagram. That's my tag. That's a character that I literally
16:25
am writing a script for every day and I get to create the story and
16:29
put it out there and then people cry or they laugh or whatever it is. It
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wasn't the true me. And suddenly I
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was face to face with the true me and
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everything began to crumble. I mean, you know, it was
16:43
a few days of It was really bad. It was
16:49
The feelings were, um, doom, like legit, like
16:53
doom was, was massive. Like, I just was like, everybody,
16:57
I realized very quickly, well, nobody cares that
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I'm not on Instagram anymore. Do you know how many other people are on there
17:04
filling their time? Nobody's scrolling through going, hmm, I wonder where Carlos is. No,
17:09
And I'll say this too, because I think this, this sort of does paint a picture, not
17:13
just the public, but the very first of this chapter
17:17
one, when I arrived at St. Andrews a few hours earlier, I'd FaceTime my
17:20
wife and kids one last time before Brian left with the phone. So you
17:27
No, I did not have a way to even communicate. Yeah,
17:32
Heather was at home with her best friend. My last communication with them showcased
17:37
them not really caring about my upcoming reality because they were
17:40
surrounded by their favorite people in an alternate reality. I love you
17:43
guys. Please pray. I said, we love you too, dad. The kids replied, you'll
17:47
be fine. Heather lovingly chimed in. Oh, the difference between their
17:52
Yeah, you know, and so I felt like
17:55
even my family had abandoned me, right? Like now I was just abandoned
17:59
with my thoughts and these monks, these monks that were all
18:02
walking around in their brown robes and their big leather belts, and
18:06
they were walking so slowly, and they were probably just talking to
18:09
God, I didn't know what they were doing. And I just felt like I was like,
18:12
this is the worst idea I've ever had. in my entire
18:16
life. Literally, I almost went back home 48 hours later. I
18:19
was like, okay, I get it. I need to be off my phone more. I can write a
18:22
book about it. Let me just go home. Luckily, my wife told me, nope, you're not allowed
18:25
to come home. And there I was. You
18:30
know, there was, I would say it took three, maybe three
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or four days until it felt like the elephant stepped off
18:37
my chest and I could stop performing. I wasn't even trying to perform
18:40
for the monks at lunch. Like suddenly I was like, well, this is my new, these
18:44
are my new people. So like, here I am like, hey, this is what I
18:47
do. And I was trying to, and they didn't care. I was
18:51
trying to give them all the highlights of who, and they
18:56
There's something that you said right there, too, that I want to highlight that,
19:00
to me, rings classic three. You
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said, OK, I get it. I need to be off my phone more. I can write a book,
19:07
as opposed to real transformation, like, oh, I get it a little bit. I
19:11
get a little piece of it. I can write a book now. as opposed to- Oh
19:15
As opposed to like, let this be for me, right? And
19:19
we can fast forward to, we can talk a lot, but
19:22
you know, fast forward to the end of the seven weeks. And I'll tell you, the
19:26
last person that wanted to turn on the phone was me. I was so at
19:30
peace. Like the version of who I was, there were tears in
19:33
my home for my kids and my wife when they knew I had to turn my phone back on because
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they're like, this version of you is who we've been, you're
19:40
more present, you're more, you're not
19:43
performing. I think they were just like, it's so nice to not
19:47
have a father or a husband that's just performing. There's something
19:51
in your book, I highlighted it. on
19:55
the road back to you where, oh yeah, it says right here that the deadly
19:58
sin of the performer is deceit. And
20:02
the quote that you have from Nathan Hawthorne after that
20:05
says, no man for any considerable period can wear one face
20:09
to himself and another to the multitude without finally
20:13
getting bewildered as to which may be true. That right
20:16
there, that quote right there was my experience at the monastery. When
20:21
I read that, it just felt like
20:26
that's what I've been doing. Literally, the multitude is my Instagram followers.
20:30
There's a multitude. And then what's the face that I have here? Well,
20:33
suddenly, I was able to just have one face. for
20:37
everybody, whether it was the Amish, whether it was the farmers, whether
20:41
it was the monks. And it was so refreshing to
20:44
not have to maybe live in the deceit that I didn't know I
20:48
was using, that I didn't know I was living in. And
20:52
deceit may feel like too strong of a word, but I
20:55
don't know. When you're portraying a caricature of who you are
20:59
for the world to see, I think that's deceitful. And so, I
21:04
Well, I think sometimes the three knows that they're doing
21:07
a shtick. If they're going on a sales call and they're like, okay, man,
21:11
I got to go turn on this version of myself. I'm
21:16
hanging out with bros right now, so I got to put my hat on. I got to turn my
21:19
hat around backwards or put my sunglasses on the
21:23
brim of my baseball cap and talk
21:26
about golf or talk about whatever the bros are talking about. You know what
21:30
I mean? It's a shtick. And it's
21:33
like to win over the crowd. It's to match the expectations of
21:37
the crowd. But you said something earlier,
21:41
and I think sometimes it's a conscious deceit, and I think most of the time it's
21:46
Yeah, and you're deceiving yourself because what you are actually believing,
21:50
the shtick, better more than anybody else. Right. Like in
21:53
the moment, it's like, I really think I am a brother. That's the dangerous part.
21:58
Yeah. That's the dangerous part. Now, here's the thing though,
22:01
Carlos, and I'm just going to be totally straight up with you, man. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like
22:04
you have an opportunity here and an opportunity easily
22:08
lost right now. Because you
22:12
said earlier, low sweat, that's your screen name again.
22:16
Yeah. is a character, but not the true
22:19
me. Now you are out selling a
22:23
new book about the new you, which
22:26
itself could become the most Enneagram 3 project
22:31
in history. I am going to talk about this
22:35
new persona You see? Like, oh,
22:39
now I'm the guy who found his true self. And now it's
22:42
like, oh, no, no, it's just the same game, different
22:46
approach. And everything about promoting a
22:49
book or a record or whatever our thing is, is
22:53
a season of getting out there and selling and
22:57
wanting people to buy the book and putting on our stick and
23:00
putting on the game, putting on the ritz, putting on the smile. And
23:04
it's like, I will say this, social media for threes is
23:07
like heroin. It is like the worst thing ever for threes. Because
23:12
the temptation to win the crowd is so intense,
23:17
the draw to it is so powerful, the
23:21
experience of feeling seen. But here's the deal. The
23:25
person you're showing them doesn't exist. Low
23:30
sweat is a character. That thing does not exist. Therefore,
23:34
you are not known by anybody. This is true. So
23:38
when you were away, you're writing this book, Reconnected, seven weeks with
23:42
monks and doing the thing with Amish farmers. Was
23:47
there a moment where you caught even a passing glimpse
23:56
Yeah. I mean, there were. many
24:00
moments, I think the
24:04
true me is more conflicted than
24:09
the portrayal of me that
24:13
I maybe put out there. Because a lot of times, I
24:17
am the one people are looking for for an answer or
24:21
to be definitive about something. And I
24:26
think I had more There was more moments
24:30
when I didn't have a screen, and I wasn't consuming, and
24:33
I wasn't performing, where I was like, I
24:37
think I said, I don't know, way more than I've ever
24:40
said it in my entire life. When I was talking to Father
24:44
Francis, Abbot Francis, and I'm like, well, This
24:48
whole Christian thing just feels like a big facade seven days into this monastery, because
24:52
this is crazy. If I start thinking about it, which I
24:55
never really let my brain go there, and here I am, 23 hours
24:59
a day of silence alone, and I'm at a monastery, and I'm like, what
25:02
is that? What's the meaning of life? Everything got really... I
25:07
don't know. And so when I was with the Amish, there
25:10
was a lot of, man, I just don't know anymore. For so
25:14
long, I have been the I know guy. This is how
25:17
you kill the spider. This is how you break an
25:21
agreement. This is how you dah, dah, dah. To where when
25:24
I finally got away from consumption off of screens, It
25:28
was really refreshing to be able to
25:32
say a whole lot to strangers I'd meet or my new Miller
25:36
family. I don't know. Well, Carlos, what do you think about this? I
25:39
don't know. I guess I tell you that, Ian, because I felt
25:43
more breath when I was able to say,
25:49
I think it's because- A lot of your persona was based on having the
25:53
My persona is, I know. A lot of my is
25:57
I know, and I feel like I'm trying to figure out
26:04
Yeah, but my question is, so you've had this glimpse, right? Well,
26:08
let me back up, because I want to just circle on one other thing, because
26:11
you still haven't answered this question I want to have an answer to. What
26:15
uncomfortable feelings, so doom was one, a sense of doom,
26:19
but what other uncomfortable feelings came up for you?
26:24
Loneliness. I was lonelier than
26:28
I've ever been. What's that like? It
26:31
was suffocating. It was a suffocating loneliness.
26:35
As funny as I actually wasn't lonely when I finally got lonely, I
26:38
wasn't lonely for Instagram. I
26:42
missed my wife, and my kids, and my friends more than I ever
26:46
have in my entire life. It was, and I'm
26:49
actually, let me also tell you this too, and I don't know if this is a three thing. I've
26:53
always been a really bad friend as far as like, I'm
26:58
not going to text you on your birthday. I'm not going to, you know, all these things. My
27:01
friends, when I got back from the seven weeks, And I would say, in
27:05
the last 18 months have said, you've been a better friend to me than
27:08
you ever were before this happened. And I think it's because I
27:12
realized the value of who really
27:15
made me feel like me, which were my friends. So loneliness,
27:19
I was lonely, made me feel suffocating. But
27:23
then I did, I would just say at the beginning of
27:26
this thing, after a week, It
27:30
was the most, just such peace. Peace
27:33
was like, I hate the word peace
27:37
even. I mean, I wonder if I can unpack a feeling a little bit better than peace or
27:41
explain it a little bit better. But I just, it's
27:44
like I could breathe. I wasn't trying to impress anybody anymore.
27:48
I was just working. I was just shearing sheep. I'd just wake up
27:51
in the morning and help Willis with the chores on the farm. I
27:56
was just being me. I was just living. We were just having conversations.
28:03
And it was such respite to not have to perform. I
28:08
was scared to turn my phone back on because I didn't want to have to
28:11
perform again. And this was before I knew about an
28:15
Enneagram 3 being a performer. I had no idea why that
28:19
was so exhausting to me. But I was exhausted from
28:22
that. And I started to kind of get filled back up, I think,
28:31
A lot of shame. A lot of shame in,
28:36
I think, I felt ashamed of maybe
28:40
some of the shtick that I
28:44
had carried for such a long time. I felt
28:48
ashamed that I'd even started, in the last
28:51
year before I went on this experiment, I'd
28:54
started to specifically even like craft
28:58
my shtick. Like I would even like in my head, like, hey, I'm
29:01
about to, you know, I'm getting booked to speak a lot more in the corporate space. I've
29:05
got to act legitimately. I'm like, I got to act a little bit more white.
29:09
I'm actually going to be Carl Witt is what I called myself instead
29:12
of Carlos Whitaker. I had like a persona in my head that was
29:15
like, oh, I'm going to be Carl Witt when I have to go. And so like, I was just like,
29:19
oh, what's going to make more money when I go speak to the corporate people? Like, and I legitimately,
29:23
you're talking about the bro conversation, but it was, I had those
29:27
conversation, you know? And so there was a lot
29:30
of shame around that when
29:35
I finally got free, when I finally got free of performing. What was
29:38
the other word, or the other feeling? Grief. Grief. The
29:42
grief that I felt actually happened after
29:46
I came back. There was Maybe
29:50
it was grief and shame together. When I went back online again,
29:54
when I went back on Instagram, I didn't know how
29:57
to be me again, like the version of me before. And
30:02
so I didn't know how to do it anymore. And there was
30:06
a lot of shame. There was a lot of embarrassment. There was a lot of, guys,
30:09
I don't know what I'm doing anymore. It doesn't look the same. I'm
30:13
not doing the same things I used to. I'm not on Instagram.
30:17
I'm legitimately on Instagram 70% less than I used to be. And
30:21
so I think even for my followers
30:25
or whatever it was, they even really didn't quite know what to do with me.
30:28
And I would say I'm 18 months in now since then. And
30:32
the conversations I'm having with people now is like, I
30:36
still don't know if I'm back to what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm a little lost.
30:41
And so it messed me up a little longer than I thought it
30:49
This is why I was so eager to have this conversation when I learned about the
30:52
title of the book and what you had done. Because you
30:57
unconsciously, and I don't even know what motivated this decision to
31:01
undertake this experiment, right? The
31:05
unconscious is a powerful thing, you know, incredibly powerful.
31:10
And maybe part of you realized that this
31:13
life you were leading was unworthy
31:18
of the fullness of your true self and
31:22
that you needed to do something. The danger is,
31:25
and I feel this, that you don't create
31:29
a new persona. Yes. around the
31:32
new version of you that now gets to
31:35
be, you see where I'm going? The deceit
31:40
in the three is really, really powerful. The
31:43
shame, I think, is a necessary passage
31:49
for twos, threes, and fours as they do their work. I
31:52
think sadness about what was
31:56
it about me? I grieve for the
31:59
real me, the true me that I have buried underneath these
32:04
images and projections for so long. Why
32:08
did I betray that person? by
32:13
hiding them, believing that who I was wasn't,
32:17
because two threes and fours, they have this one thing in common, Carlos. None
32:22
of them believe they can be loved for who they are, so they all create
32:25
false images and project them, images
32:29
that they hope will win them the love, appreciation, and
32:33
approval, and acceptance of
32:37
others. But you have to
32:40
hide your true self, actually even maybe even
32:44
disdain it. So who is your
32:48
true self? What have you learned about the true self that is
32:52
I've learned that the true self of who Carlos
32:56
is, I think, sits with
33:01
a lot more. Again, I've talked about this a
33:04
little bit. I don't feel comfortable
33:08
being the expert in a lot of areas that
33:11
I felt comfortable being the expert in before. And
33:15
I think that's okay. So I
33:18
ask myself, questions all the time. It's like, what
33:21
is my, like, right now, like, what's the assignment, I
33:25
think, that maybe I had wrong before? Like,
33:28
what was my assignment before? What's my assignment now? When I say assignment,
33:32
I'm not talking about something super spiritual. I'm just talking about what am
33:35
I supposed to be doing? Like, what am I doing? What am I supposed
33:39
to be doing? And, you know, I think looking back at
33:43
Some of the gifts that I have, I
33:47
do feel comfortable continuing to be somebody that is
33:51
inspirational in, not myself, but
33:54
in telling, like I'm a good storyteller, right? That
33:58
is a gift that I have. And so I love writing, I
34:02
love speaking, but I also, I think
34:06
one thing, oh, this is good, I haven't gotten here yet, even in the book when
34:09
I wrote it, I hadn't gotten here, but one thing that I, that maybe
34:13
was a part of my identity that I
34:17
maybe need to unpack a little bit more is, you know, I
34:20
was the person that people would watch so
34:24
that they could see. People would be like, I just follow
34:27
you because you're real. It's so funny after these conversations that I'm
34:31
having with you, Ian, it's just like, it's
34:35
almost like I was being able to perform this
34:40
realness, this authentic-ness. And I'm like,
34:43
well, maybe there's a lot less of me that I
34:47
need to be sharing in general, because Maybe
34:50
I was sharing more than I even needed to share in order for
34:53
people to be like, oh, Carlos is just, man, he's just so real. I can just relate
34:58
I call that vulnerability. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
35:01
yeah. It's a false vulnerability. It
35:06
looks like, oh, if I just say vulnerable things, but
35:10
that creates another persona, right? Sure.
35:16
How old are you? 50, just turn 50. Man, you do not look
35:19
50. Sweet. I'd have pegged you at
35:23
41 or two, so you're doing all right. But this is around the
35:26
time that a lot of times, like, you're actually really fortunate.
35:31
Lots of threes don't start to do this work until they have a big,
35:34
massive, they just take a, I won't use bad language, but you'll know what I'm
35:38
saying, when they take a massive crap publicly
35:42
in their lives, right? Like they just hit
35:45
a wall, They get busted for having an
35:49
affair or for having an addiction, they get a DUI, they're
35:53
a Christian, they're this thing, the next thing, right? And
35:57
suddenly the mask comes down, everybody sees through the shtick,
36:01
and the three is exposed, and in those moments,
36:05
threes tend to think, my life is over. And what I tell them is, hallelujah,
36:10
your life is about to begin. Yeah. Because now we
36:13
have blown up all of the images. Yep. And
36:17
now your true self has space to
36:20
now, like green shoots, start to come up out of the earth.
36:24
But it's going to take a minute. You can craft an image in
36:28
a second. Sure. But a true self is going to take a second
36:31
to reveal itself to you. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And as
36:35
it's been said, spiritual transformation is the slowest of
36:39
all human movements. So it
36:43
takes a second for us to have it. Now, the problem is
36:46
with our personality types is they are so embedded and so
36:50
reflexive that you are going to have
36:53
to burn a lot of calories and actually enlist
36:56
the help of some other people to help you not lose
37:00
the ground you've gained by going backwards and
37:05
just doing what you know. Remember,
37:08
there's a little kid inside of you that is saying, I
37:12
can't be loved apart from my accomplishments, my achievements, my
37:15
apparent success, my seeming success. Like
37:19
you actually said, you were struggling with the question, like, what am I supposed
37:22
to do? And I would add a question to that. And I'd actually, in
37:25
the hierarchy of things, place it above that question, which is like, what am
37:29
I supposed to be now? Not what am I supposed to do? Like,
37:33
what am I supposed to be now? if I'm not
37:37
going to be Los Whitaker on Instagram doing my
37:40
shtick and giving people simplistic answers to complicated life
37:43
problems that they, and all you're doing is giving a
37:47
mob what it wants. You're just throwing, I mean, honestly, I'm just being a little cynical
37:50
here, but what the hell, we're all together. When people
37:54
like you or I in the public space do that stuff, we're just throwing red
37:57
meat. That's all we're doing. We're just saying, hey, here's three
38:00
simple things you can do when you're having a problem. It's like, it's a little
38:04
bit more complicated than that. Right. And we
38:07
should be more humble and agnostic, meaning
38:11
not knowing about things that, because
38:15
we actually are misleading people to think that life has simple
38:19
answers. Right. When by 50, you are now realized,
38:22
right? I'm 63, right? But it's like, you're realizing, like, oh, guess
38:26
what? It's a hell of a lot more complicated than that. Yep.
38:32
Yeah. Can I ask a question for you? Yeah, go ahead. One
38:35
of the things I wanted to hit on, because you said lonely, and we sort
38:39
of passed over that. And lonely is
38:42
only gratified through intimacy. And
38:46
I was thinking about when you were talking about Instagram, and it's
38:51
a substitute for true connection. When you were
38:54
talking about putting this out there, and people were like, oh, he's so real, right? It's
38:57
an attempt to connect, which the
39:01
gift of loneliness is connection. I think sometimes it's extra
39:05
hard for the threes because you have all the masks. So how
39:08
do you push through the mask or bring down the mask so you
39:11
can connect? So what steps are
39:14
you taking now in your life to experience that
39:23
I think, you know, this is going to sound so
39:27
simplistic, but the greatest compliment I've
39:30
gotten since this whole thing has finished hasn't been for my friends, it's been
39:33
for my wife. She's just like, you're intentional in
39:37
wanting to ask me questions. You never asked me questions before. She
39:41
would always be the question asker where we'd go on a date and then the conversation started.
39:45
I feel like some of my cure for loneliness has been my intentionality
39:49
with the ones that actually cure my loneliness, which
39:53
are going to be my wife and kids. Now, one of my kids has gotten married since
39:57
this has happened. The other one's moved out and we're down to one in
40:00
the house. But I do feel like one
40:04
of the things also that it's not curing my loneliness is
40:08
social media anymore. I used to say all
40:12
the time, I love being alone. I
40:16
love traveling. When I travel, I love
40:20
just being on airplanes and not sitting next to people I know. Well, the
40:23
whole thing is I would say that, but I'd be on my phone with 300,000 people typing
40:27
back and forth. So was I truly alone ever? And I
40:31
got to experience true loneliness and also solitude,
40:35
which isn't loneliness, but it's something that I'd not had anymore.
40:39
So one of the other things is I purposely built
40:42
solitude back into my life. We're the first generation to
40:47
not have access to solitude. And so that's
40:50
something else that I learned that from the monks when I was with them. They
40:53
really helped me understand the beauty of solitude. Yeah, I'll
40:57
spend an entire day not listening to podcasts or
41:01
when I travel, not listening to whatever, just being in solitude, whatever
41:05
that is. I've implemented a couple of things, Anthony,
41:09
into my life, but mostly it's just been really with my wife. She's
41:19
So, you mentioned earlier that you're not a very good friend. And what
41:22
it reminded me of is that, you know, threes are
41:26
such doers. And they're always on the move. Relationships
41:31
are messy and they take time. And they're slow. They're
41:35
slow, right? So, what they are, what they represent to
41:38
the three is a big inefficiency. You
41:43
know, and you're so concerned with effectiveness,
41:47
hitting goals, nailing, you
41:51
know, getting through a to do list of things that you got to get done. The
41:54
other thing is threes have more feelings than probably any
41:57
other type. And they're the type that is most out of touch with their own feelings. Their
42:01
feelings are very repressed. Yeah. they
42:04
have trouble naming their feelings. And they're also, like I said, repressed.
42:08
And, you know, relationships are time-consuming, and
42:13
oftentimes a three is very utilitarian around relationships. So, in
42:16
other words, it's like, can this person help me get ahead? If it's a person who I
42:20
just like, but they can't help me get ahead or get more followers or
42:23
sell more books, then I don't have time for this conversation. You know what I mean?
42:27
This is an unhealthy three I'm describing, not you. I'm just saying an unhealthy, not
42:31
very self-aware three. So, do you have a plan
42:34
for doing the work, like you have cracked open something in
42:38
you, right, in the last 18 months. You
42:41
now have even more information based on Enneagram stuff, right? Yeah.
42:45
Do you have a plan for how
42:49
you are going to protect and deepen and
42:53
further and mostly protect the work that
42:57
has already been accomplished in you to avoid backsliding
43:02
into the game of the three, into the trance, because
43:05
it's a trance of the three, and
43:10
becoming more intimate, deeper, a person who
43:13
actually believes he can be loved for who he is, not for what he
43:20
I don't have one. I
43:24
did the work. I have my
43:28
things that I'm doing every day, the things that I'm applying in
43:32
my life from screen time, for instance, like Instagram
43:35
time, all the buffers that I've put in place that
43:39
have kept me here. But as I hear you say that, I'm like,
43:42
well, I mean, I don't know. You could,
43:46
in a year and a half, Ian scroll on Instagram and sees Carlos is selling a
43:50
course on- How to be your true self. How to be
43:54
your true self. I did not have a plan. The
44:01
more I'm deeper into this conversation, the more I think, okay,
44:05
I've muscled 18 months of staying pretty healthy here,
44:09
but if I'm not careful, this book's going to come out. The book's not out
44:13
yet. I don't know when this podcast is coming out, but the book's not out yet. When it comes out, already
44:17
publicity-wise, as far as this has been the most sought-after title
44:22
of anything I've released from as far as like the media and people want to talk about,
44:25
oh my gosh, this guy's with the Amish and with monks and he didn't look
44:28
at a screen and he got his brain scanned. There's just a lot more
44:33
eyeballs looking at this work than any of my other work. So
44:37
it's like, oh man, that's dangerous. Like, you know, if
44:40
I'm not careful, if I don't have a plan, then, you
44:43
know, I could very quickly slide back into unhealthy performer.
44:49
Yeah. Well, first of all, I think I'm really glad you said you don't have one,
44:55
But I will say you need one. Yeah. You have some practices right now,
45:02
Right. So you're in therapy, right? Yep. You
45:05
like your therapist? Love my therapist. OK. You shared all this
45:08
with your therapist? Oh, yeah. And
45:12
more. Okay, and more. Yeah, that's important. I
45:15
think you would do really well to not just read my book.
45:19
I can give you some titles of other books on the Enneagram, but learning about threes
45:23
as part of your self-discovery curriculum. I
45:28
would say you're in discovery mode. Still, yes. All
45:32
right, let's try and unearth what's really
45:35
going on with me. right? Let's
45:39
see what the challenges are. So that would be a first. We're in self-discovery
45:43
mode. You got a therapist. That's great. You're going to need some other people
45:46
in your life that are a
45:50
support team to help you as
45:53
you undergo a path of transformation
45:58
from the typical path of
46:01
the three to moving from deceit to
46:06
what Parker Palmer, who by the way is an Enneagram 3, you'll be
46:09
happy to know, is to authentic selfhood. Again,
46:13
a lot of the journey, Carlos, here is I can be loved for who I am. And
46:18
I don't need to keep creating images and projected characters
46:24
that I think are going to match the expectations and the demands of the
46:27
crowd. Because right now, they tyrannize you. You
46:32
are tyrannized by 300,000 people. And
46:36
all you can think about is, how do I keep them happy with me? How
46:40
do I keep them liking me? Which, by the way, will mean
46:43
that you'll never actually ever tell them the whole truth
46:47
out of fear that you might go down to 120,000 followers
46:51
in a week. You know what I mean? Like, what if you get canceled? That's like
46:54
the worst thing in the world that could possibly happen, right? Or whatever could
46:58
happen. So you need a plan. You
47:01
need a people to be around you to help you stay
47:04
the course of personal transformation. I would strongly
47:09
recommend even finding, and I can recommend one to
47:12
you offline, an Enneagram coach that
47:16
can come alongside you who is either a three or really understands threes
47:19
well. Because,
47:25
look, I meet so many threes on this podcast
47:29
because guess who writes books? Threes, sevens, and eights. A
47:34
ton of them write books, and they're really good at self-promotion. Self-sales
47:39
is their thing, and they make it look like it's not self-sale. Sometimes
47:42
it comes through, but they think they're doing a good job of
47:45
hiding it, but it's a lot of self-selling. Yeah. But it's
47:49
the selling of the persona that, you know, and how can I monetize this?
47:52
And how can I, how can I spin this in just the right way so
47:56
I look good? And, you know, you have an opportunity like
47:59
right now, I feel like this is what's on my heart as you're talking. Like, I'm
48:03
seeing like such low hanging ripe fruit on your tree right
48:07
now. Yeah. For personal growth and transformation, but
48:11
they will not stay there Like, the pull of
48:14
our old proclivities is so strong that unless you
48:18
get help and have a plan, you will
48:21
not remain on the journey of transformation. Or
48:26
you'll slow to a crawl on it, or you'll have too many detours, off,
48:29
back on, off, back on. And I think for threes,
48:33
the good news is, is that having a plan is super important. Like,
48:37
okay, well, what's my goal? What's my plan? That's what I want to go for. I want to become
48:41
like, I want to become the healthiest, truest expression of myself. Yeah.
48:44
And if that's the case, then for sure, glad you have a therapist. However,
48:48
can I ask you a really honest question? Yeah. Have you sticked the,
48:52
like, like, here's the thing. Yeah. Threes, threes walk in the therapist's
48:56
office all the time. Uh-huh. And by the end, the therapist
48:59
is so impressed they want to do therapy with the three. It's
49:03
like, because you've done such a good job of telling them what they want to
49:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I definitely have not sticked my
49:13
this therapist. Okay, good. I've sticked a therapist before. And
49:16
the reason why I know that, what you just said, I've had a therapist look
49:20
at me and go, I just love doing work with you because you're so good at
49:23
expressing yourself, you know, and I was like, Oh my gosh, look, I've sticked the
49:27
Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Like sometimes with
49:30
threes, it drives them crazy. Like I've had three coaching
49:34
clients, right. And, and stuff, patience too,
49:37
when I had to practice. And they would say stuff that I know that they were
49:41
saying specifically to win me over, and I just stared at
49:44
them. And I just blink. I don't smile.
49:48
I don't register anything on my face. They're looking. And
49:51
they look at me, and then after a second, it turns to panic. And
49:55
then it turns to rage. I've seen it turn
49:58
to rage too, where it's like, wait a minute. What are you staring at,
50:02
bro? No, it's more like, What? It's like all of a sudden,
50:06
they realized I was looking at the mask and not the person. And
50:14
Well, can I ask you a question? Yeah. How would you describe
50:18
a healthy three that
50:25
has the job that you and I have? Right? So,
50:28
so it's like, you know, I think
50:31
what, where I could, where my brain could go when we end this conversation
50:35
is, oh, crap. Like if I'm a three, I can't do what I'm doing. I've
50:38
got to go figure out some, another job to have, because this is, I'm
50:42
literally just going to be living in self-promotion in as
50:45
I do. But like, is there a way for a three to do what
50:52
Yes. And it's going to take a minute. Yeah. I
50:57
would say that a couple of growth things. Yeah. One
51:00
is, for threes, learning to connect with your emotions, particularly
51:05
the tender aspects of yourself. Releasing
51:09
your need for control. Threes can be very controlling. We
51:13
think of ones as being controlling or eights being controlling, but threes can be very controlling. What
51:17
they like to control is the narrative. Yeah. Let's control the narrative,
51:20
like make sure that the narrative is saying good things about me. Yeah.
51:25
Differentiating between your real feelings and your image-driven ones.
51:30
Learning to be more introspective and self-reflective. you've
51:34
got some practices, but learning just to be, not
51:37
doing, right? Like your first instinct might be to
51:40
go, you know, oh, I'm gonna go get John Mark Comer's new book and go
51:43
do a rule of life, which is a good thing, but maybe not the best thing for a three. It's
51:47
like, oh, it's just doing, it's more doing. So
51:51
practices like meditation would be huge for a three, like
51:54
learning just to sit and to be, like centering prayer. I
51:58
think checking your motives, Why am I
52:01
doing this? Am I doing this to win people's approval and appreciation or their respect
52:05
or their admiration? It's really more about admiration. It's
52:09
like the three wants people to go, damn, that guy is unbelievable. Like,
52:13
whoa, is he successful? Wow, I've never met anyone like,
52:17
right? But to really notice your motives, like,
52:21
why am I doing the things that I'm doing? Why am I saying this right now?
52:24
Am I coming from a place of authenticity, or
52:27
am I coming from a place where I'm just image
52:32
generation? I'm just generating image. I
52:35
think healthy sixes, for example,
52:40
they start to look a lot like Healthy sixes. Healthy
52:44
threes start to look like healthy sixes. Oh, really? Yeah. So
52:48
they become more community-minded. They
52:52
are less concerned about their own success and more concerned
52:55
about the success of helping others become successes. Here's
53:00
the thing you could do, just as a spiritual thing. Start to give away
53:03
money or time to things anonymously. Yeah.
53:07
Just start doing stuff anonymously. without wanting anything in return. What
53:12
you're doing is what Ignatius called the contrary Jerry, right?
53:15
Like a Jerry Contra. It's like, I'm just going to do the opposite of the things that I used
53:18
to do that really don't, really, to
53:23
unwind the momentum of the unhealthy behaviors of my
53:26
priors. Oh, that's good. Right. And then, um,
53:31
I would say, like, cause I remember when the, when the road, I never
53:34
told the story to anybody, but I remember when the road back to you
53:37
came out and started to take off. Right. So it had been out
53:40
for about a year and then it, it did well, but then
53:43
it really started to do well. Okay. I remember exactly
53:47
where I was. I was on Franklin road in Brentwood and
53:51
I called my friend Josh graves, you know, Josh, Josh. Okay.
53:55
So I called Josh. And I said, Josh, I have
53:58
a feeling that this book is about to take off.
54:01
You could just feel it in the air. And
54:05
I said, and I'm going to need some help, because I don't know
54:09
if I'm ready. I was uncertain if I was ready for that.
54:13
So having a spiritual director or someone that
54:17
is intimately acquainted with your journey of
54:23
learning and wanting to become the best
54:27
expression of who you are, the truest expression of
54:31
who you are. And by the way, I cannot guarantee that
54:35
it won't screw up your business life. Sure. So, and
54:38
that's true for any type, right? Yeah. And by the way, you're going
54:41
to have a lot of people, including all those people on Instagram who
54:45
are going to want you. Okay. So this is family systems. You
54:48
know what I'm, you know, I know you know what it is, but let me explain it to people out there
54:51
who don't. It's called a Calder mobile. So you know that
54:54
a Calder mobile is one of those art things from the fifties, mid century, it
54:58
hangs from the ceiling on a wire and it has little off things. And it,
55:02
you know, if it, if there's a breeze in the room, they all kind of move. You know
55:05
what I'm talking about? You can look it up. The way
55:08
that works is, if you touch one
55:12
of the tiles on the end of the wires, the whole system
55:15
jumps. The whole mobile jumps up and
55:18
down and starts to move around. The
55:25
forces of physics want to move that mobile toward homeostasis,
55:29
going back to stillness. And so all
55:32
the other tiles on the system will begin to
55:36
assert pressure on the one that moved and
55:40
changed the script in the system to go back
55:43
to what it was. Because we knew how to be
55:46
in the world when Los Whitaker was Los Whitaker. Now,
55:50
if you start to change, you're going to feel pressure in your social group,
55:53
in your platform, and elsewhere. What happened to the old you?
55:56
We liked the old you. Yeah. And
56:00
you're going to feel pressure to go back. It's not going to just come from inside
56:03
you. It's going to come from outside you too. People are going to want
56:07
you to go back to the way it was at
56:10
some level. There's going to be some unconscious resentment
56:14
that you're changing. This happens in family systems. It's
56:18
like when someone gets sober in a family, Yeah. Right?
56:21
In a family system, someone has a drinking problem, they get sober, they start to
56:24
change. Everybody's happy and also conflicted. Yeah. It's
56:30
Right. This is actually already happening. Tell
56:33
me how that's happening. This is happening on, you know, where
56:37
I was before this experiment,
56:41
I really was out there at the front of every single kind
56:46
of socio-political issue that came out, people came
56:49
straight to me to speak on it. And because I was like,
56:54
I could wordsmith together a very nuanced
56:57
way of making people feel like, oh my gosh, This
57:02
is exactly the words I was looking for, Carlos, thank you so much. And so like
57:05
every single thing, literally every single thing that would happen, I'd go on Twitter every day, and
57:08
I'd look for the trending topic. And I was like, oh, this is dividing people. Bam,
57:12
Carlos is going to come in and connect people. And so what happened?
57:16
Well, I came back from this thing, and I was like, suddenly I just didn't feel like I
57:20
wanted to do that anymore. And so
57:23
literally, one global conflict would happen. People
57:28
would wait maybe four days, and then my DMs would flip. Hey, man, when are you
57:31
going to say something? Well, I
57:35
don't know if I really have the capacity, this is what I would say, to
57:38
do that right now. Like, I'm sorry, maybe later. And then it
57:42
got louder and louder and louder to where people were like, you
57:45
just don't care anymore. What happened to you? You used to be the
57:49
guy that would come and that would speak to these things. And now you're
57:52
not speaking up for injustices anymore. And now you're not. And Ian, next
57:55
thing you know, people Like, bro, the
57:59
messages people would leave me before they would leave was just like, you're
58:03
not who you used to be. So I'm literally telling you that what
58:06
you're explaining is happening. And there's been
58:09
moments where I'm like, OK, and I'll write a big, long post about the next thing that came
58:14
Yeah, good. So good. But all I'm saying
58:17
is, I want you to know that that's a good sign. Yeah. If
58:21
I were your spiritual director, I would be like, that's going to feel like
58:25
shit, and it's a really good sign. Because
58:29
what it is indicating is that there's a shift happening in
58:32
you. The system is exerting pressure
58:36
on you. to go back to the way things were. And
58:40
since this is a journey toward authenticity and toward becoming
58:44
your true self, whatever that means, that's a very debated topic.
58:49
But that said, the fact that people are responding
58:52
to you differently, and this will happen in your family, it will happen elsewhere. When
58:57
you feel despair, just remember that's a good sign. Yeah,
59:02
okay. But that's why you need some other
59:05
people in your life and some other inputs in your life to
59:09
help you, because you're in a really, really great position.
59:15
And all I can feel in my heart is, bro, keep going. Don't lose
59:18
this. Whatever you do, don't lose these
59:22
gains. And capitalize them on and actually double
59:25
down on the journey. Yeah. Like of spiritual transformation
59:32
and intimacy with God and with others and
59:41
I mean, this has been like, I love this conversation, man. And I love,
59:45
I really do love where you are. Like, I'm like, Man, good
59:54
And it's been good for me, too, because I am
59:57
healthier because of what I did. I really am healthier than
1:00:01
I've been in a long, long time. But to look and especially
1:00:04
the whole plan part, because I'm like, you know, there really isn't
1:00:07
a plan besides like, man, look at me now. Like, I feel so
1:00:11
healthy. Everyone around me is like, Dad, you're so healthy. But
1:00:18
So when we're done, let's have a conversation. I
1:00:21
got a couple of names for you. And they're just resources. Whether
1:00:25
you reach out to them or not, that's up to you. But I can give you some resources of
1:00:30
people who can help you maybe put together a plan and
1:00:33
give you some thoughts about how not to do this
1:00:37
alone. Because actually, none of us can do this work alone.
1:00:40
Like as my friend Suzanne used to say, something she
1:00:44
says in the effect of, it's about doing the work we
1:00:47
do, we do alone, but we do it together alone. That's good.
1:00:53
That's good. I think there's some real truth in that. Hey, everybody. I'm talking to
1:00:56
our friend Carlos Whitaker about his new
1:00:59
book, but actually about his new life, for crying out loud. Yeah. Come on, man. It's
1:01:03
titled Reconnected, How Seven Screen-Free Weeks with Monks and
1:01:06
Amish Farmers Helped Me Recover the Art of Being Human. This
1:01:10
is available right now on Amazon for pre-order,
1:01:13
so we want you to go out and get it. I have a copy of it. I am only
1:01:17
about a quarter of the way through it, but I know the journey he's describing really,
1:01:21
really well as something really exciting for a
1:01:25
three and dangerous. This is like J.R.R.
1:01:29
Tolkien-level journey into the big
1:01:37
Obviously, people can learn about you more on all the socials at
1:01:40
Lowe's Whittaker, or Lowe's Whitt, I should say. Yeah. Anthony, could
1:01:46
I'm excited for you. For real. I feel bad for
1:01:49
our next interview in 45 minutes because
1:01:53
I got nothing left. I'm all tapped. That's
1:02:02
I know your address. We'll send a super bill.
1:02:06
Hey, everybody. Don't forget. May you have love. May you have
1:02:10
joy. May you have peace. May you have healing. And