Latest / Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast / The Murder of Julie Kibuishi

Transcript

The Murder of Julie Kibuishi · Wicked and Grim: A True Crime Podcast

• 0:07
  Speaker 1: If there is one thing every good investigator has to offer,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: it's followed the evidence. Making assumptions can be easy when
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: looking into how cases and events unfold. In the story
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: of the murder of Julie Kibuishi, it's very easy to
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: prematurely draw conclusions. So here are the facts as it
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: all played out on how she was murdered in cold blood.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: My name's Ben and.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked and Grim, a.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: True crime podcast. The following podcast, Maurial intended for a
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: mature audience. Listener discretion is advised. I think we got
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: the video figured out this time.
• 1:07
  Speaker 2: I figs cross.
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: I think we said it last time, but I think
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: this time, third time is a charm.
• 1:12
  Speaker 2: Third time is a charm.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: We're having some technical difficulties behind the scenes, and I
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: think we're trying to overcomplicate things with like a bunch
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: of camera and different angles, and in our tiny home,
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: just having multiple cameras doesn't work too well. Yeah, so
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I think we're gonna go with a main camera and
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: just kind of like crop and go back and forth.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: It'll still be four K it'll still be awesome, but
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: just not quite as elaborate, but it'll be done. It'll
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: be awesome. It'll be there, and.
• 1:35
  Speaker 2: We might get there right where we have more cameras.
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: But I mean sometimes it's just better to start simple.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Exactly like I say, over complicating it at the beginning.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: So we got it. It's rolling. It'll be on YouTube
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: in the days to follow of this release. Awesome link
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: is down below. If you want it, it's there.
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: If not, you can keep listening to us here.
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: There you go, or or or you can listen on Patreon.
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: That's true because the link is down there too, And
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: we have some awesome people who signed up this week.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: For example, we have Lane Page and Callum who both
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: signed up. Are getting that behind the scenes, the exclusive
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: episodes at the end of the month, all that good stuff. Yeah,
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: love it. What I don't love is that it's snowed
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: today or last night.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean overdue.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it caused me to like have a very
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: dramatic slip and fall in the driveway.
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I forgot about that. That was that was
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: something coffee was spilt, you know.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: Well I had my Yetti coffee mug and as I
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: was walking, I like slipped and then my back gave out,
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: and in that moment, I just accepted I'm not catching myself.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: I'm dropping. And I literally dropped my coffee and I
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: just prepared to catch myself and I hit the ground
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and I laid them for a good minute.
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you were just laying there and your coffee is
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: just like spilling onto the road. So I grabbed that,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: but I didn't really know if I should help you up.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: I just like you laid there. Was it was quite
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: a sight.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: Actually, I left a really good impression in the snow.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: When you're driving by, you're like, yeah, someone fell right there.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Yes, it was drinking a coffee.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, or tried to be, but instead it hit the
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: road instead.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: Anyways, are you ready for this case? Yeah, this one's
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: got a twist, a turn, a roller coaster kind of
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: aspect to it, so very much. So I want you
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: to consider the intro that we went over. Do not
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: come to conclusions, Okay, take the evidence into account because
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: evidence is everything, right.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, it's sometimes hard though to cut Like, people
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: just do come to conclusions and then they're so set
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: on that and it doesn't take much to convince them.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Otherwise, so this is good Okay, I'm going to just
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: look at the evidence.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: So if you're listening, I want you to play along
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: in that sort of game aspect. Don't get me wrong,
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: this is this is a murder. This isn't a game.
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: Someone lost their freaking life and it's tragic. But I
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: want you to try and put your shoes in the
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: investigator investigative side. Do not come to those conclusions. Try
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: and follow the clues and see what you can come
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: up with. Before we really give the the.
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: Answers were investigator, yes in a sense, in a sense yes, okay,
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: So this all starts off on a Monday.
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: It's May twenty first. In twenty twelve, Stephen and Raquel
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: Hare became a little concerned about their son. Now their
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: son Sam was supposed to go to his parents' house
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: in the weekend for a visit, whether it was dinner
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: or whatever, but he never showed up. His parents tried
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: to get a hold of him, but none of their
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: efforts were successful. His phone kept going straight to voicemail,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: which was rather unusual, especially for being on the weekend
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: when he was much more available. So they decided he
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: needed or they needed to check in on him something.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: I mean of course, could be wrong. Is he okay
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: or whatever? Right, So they went to check in on
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: their twenty six year old son Sam. When they arrived
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and knocked at his door, no one answered. From there,
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: they let themselves in and they took a look around
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: Sam's apartment. They had a spare key, so they opened
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: the door. Right, they were inside calling out to their son, Sam, Sam,
• 5:04
  Speaker 1: it's your parents, you home, you okay, Just making their
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: presence known sort of thing, right.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, so they don't startle him.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, what if he's just getting out of
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: the shower or something.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: No one wants to see their child like that. So
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, hey, I'm here. You know, presence being known
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: is important. But from there they continue looking around. Now,
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: i mean, mind you, his apartment is rather clean. It's
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: typical bachelor pad mind you as well, But there's like
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: the odd empty beer can here or there. Living room
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: had a sectional couse facing towards a nice big screen
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: TV and an acoustic guitar sitting next to it as well.
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: Nothing was out of the ordinary. It was relatively clean, nice,
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: just kind of bachelor patty, right, Okay, So they're looking
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: around and they managed to make their way over to
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the bedroom, and once they got to the bedroom, Steve
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: Hare opened the door and this is where he was
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: met with a very gruesome sight. He found a woman
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: dead in the room, leaning over the bed, and he
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: immediately called nine one one. Holy shit, Steve told the
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: operator on nine one one, quote, there's a body in
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: my son's apartment. Looks like there's been some sexual activity.
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: She's dead. There's blood from her head.
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Huh okay.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: So the unknown woman was found laying face down, lifeless,
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: with blood coming from a bullet wound from the back
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of her head. She wore a tiara on her head,
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: and her jeans appeared to be cut, ripped, or whatever
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: the case, but were pulled down around her knees. Someone
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: had appeared to also have written quote all yours and
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: fuck you across the back of her sweatshirt.
• 6:41
  Speaker 2: Huh okay. I would not have a clue what to think. No, no,
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: I mean okay, being that you're a parent, and like
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: I think you would think your your kid could could
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: do no wrong kind of thing. Most parents would think that, right, Okay, Yeah,
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: I would probably be worried for my son thinking that shit,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: like where is he? Is he safe? Or is he
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: did someone take him? Or is he killed or like
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: dead somewhere, you know, Like I think that's probably where
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: my head would go.
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: That's where your head would go. Yeah, okay. Well for police,
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: they of course immediately began working on the case and
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: scouring the apartment for clues. But it's no surprise for
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: them or for to say really that Sam to them
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: became suspect number one.
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I could see that too for sure.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: So Detective Jose Moreles and Lieutenant Ed Everett of the
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: Coosa Messa Police Department believed that Sam's familiarity with firearms
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: due to his military background, coupled with potential impact of
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: post traumatic stress disorder or PTSD from his service, may
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: have contributed to a moment of crisis or snapping. So
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: Sam pretty much left his parents wondering, Sam, what did
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: you do? Now? The only problem is they had no
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: idea where Sam had gone. They were left with the body,
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: and the search for Sam began.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: Well because also the other thing I'm just going to
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: bring up to that seemed confusing is the message on
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: the back or her hoodie. Definitely, because that to me
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: almost seems like she's being left there for Sam. In
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: a sense maybe maybe so.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about Sam for a minute. Let's go
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: into his background. Who he is. So, twenty six year
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: old Sam Hare was an Army veteran and a student
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: at Orange Coast College in Costa Messa, So this is
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: in California. Sam was previously deployed for duty in Afghanistan
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: and had eventually returned home to begin his studies at school.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: He was beginning a new career path and was making
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: a lot of new friends along the way. He has
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: a bit of a social butterfly, easily liked by people
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: and just really happy, go lucky guy making lots of friends. Right.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: One friend that he made was that of twenty three
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: year old Julie Kibawishi. Now, Julie described Sam to her
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: mom as a fun and responsible guy. The twenty six
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: year old veteran started college after returning home from this
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: Afghanistan fight, and he's known to all these fellow students,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: just like Julie as a fun and responsible guy. Julie,
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: in fact, even described Sam as a big teddy bear
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: who was also quote always nice to everybody.
• 9:11
  Speaker 2: Aw yeah, okay, that's like awesome descriptions.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: It is now the only problem is, though Julie was
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: soon identified as the deceased woman in Sam's apartment. Oh shit, Yeah,
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: so the quotes that I just offered came secondhand from
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: Julie's mother.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Dang.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, So Sam and Julie had been close for
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: a while. They were good friends with a pseudo brother
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: and sister type relationship given how close they were. Sam
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: even told his father at one point that Julie was
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: like his quote kid's sister when he was asked about
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: the relationship. So the Dad's all like, hey, you know
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: what's going on with you and Julie?
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: Right?
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: And Sam's just like, now, she's like my kid's sister, right,
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: there's nothing going on. We're just good friends, really close.
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: So and now Julie had actually even been tutoring and
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: helping Sam for an anthropology class at school. So not
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: only were they friends, not only were they pseudo brother
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: sister type relationship, but she was also a bit of
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: a mentor to him in certain aspects, helping tutor them. Right, Okay,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: So their relationship was all over the place in a
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: very well rounded wayah, which I think is really healthy
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: for a lot of people to have those sort of things.
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: Connections in various matters.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: So yeah, it's like your chosen family at a different
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: like in your adult life, you know.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: Definitely, definitely. Now, as investigators began digging into the relationship
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: between Julie and Sam, they began uncovering some intriguing details.
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: On the evening of May twenty first, twenty ten, Julie
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: was at a dinner date with her brother. While they
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: were enjoying their time, she began receiving some text messages
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: from Sam. Now, the text from Sam goes as this quote,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: can you come over tonight at midnight alone? Going out
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: for a bit? Very upset, need to talk Please no sex.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I need to talk to someone. Julie responded, lol you Sam,
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: were like bro and sis. No sex. The text messages
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: continue and Sam told Julie about how he was quote
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: hurting because some bad family crap and he didn't want
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: to be alone twich. Julie responded, quote, yeah that's fine, Sam,
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: I'm here for you like family, okay.
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: Nice.
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: So during the dinner with her brother, Julie received not
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: only these texts, but also a tiara as a gift
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: from her brother to be in her wedding party, to
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: be in his wedding party story. Yeah, so he's getting married,
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: and I'm not too sure what position she was asked
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: to be, whether it's like made of honor or a
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: bride'smaid or maybe on his side, whatever the case, but
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: she's getting this tiara in the term of asking to
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: be in the party. Right, Oh, that's adorable, to which
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: she clearly accepted because she donned the tiara quite quickly.
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: She wore it on top of her head and the
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: night continued. They finished their evening together and after Julie
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: went over to Sam's place, still wearing the tr on
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: top of her head. It would be the next morning
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: that Julie's mother woke up to find her daughter had
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: never returned home and contacted the police. The investigation unfolding,
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and the story slowly began to unravel itself. Authorities also
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: discovered an interesting detail about Sam. He may have been
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: a veteran, but he also had a criminal history. One
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: thing I realized that actually didn't mention yet is the
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: tiara that she was wearing. She was still wearing it
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: when her deceased remains were found.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you didn't mention it, I did, Okay, Yeah, gosh,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: which is sad.
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: It is so. At eighteen, Sam had faced allegations of
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: leading a man to a parking lot, where he was
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: brutally attacked and killed by a group of men in
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: what police deemed a gang related incident. Although some of
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: the accused were convicted and received life sentences for the event,
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Sam was declared not guilty, determined to turn his life around,
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: subsequently enlisted in the army.
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: Okay, one thing I just want to state that seems
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: kind of odd, is is that text message? The text
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: message in a sense, because I'm almost now wondering if
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: that was even Sam, because do you describe the relationship
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: as siblings. So the fact that he's inviting her over
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: and then like states no sex, it seems like odd
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: unless maybe they had previously have said things and it's
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: like a joke or something.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Yeah, did you want me to go back and read
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: those texts again so you can reevaluate? No, Okay, I.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Don't think so. No, Okay, I just now I'm just
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: it just popped in my head, the no sex thing.
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: It might be odd. It's considering that they are like
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: brother and sister potentially.
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, very good point. Yeah, I'm not giving you
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: any detail, No got a good point. Now. Locating Sam,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: of course posed a significant challenge. He was gone, his
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: apartment was empty, other than of course, his belongings and
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: Julie's remains, and for a while there was no trace
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: of him. He seemed to have just vanished, and his
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: vehicle was gone as well. Now, the breakthrough in the
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: case came unexpectedly, leading the police investigation in a surprising
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: new direction. The police had dug into Sam's bank history
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: to see if any of his cards had been used,
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: right this would provide them with a bit of a
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: map on where he might be if he's using them now.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: In doing so, they managed to discover Sam's bank card
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: had been used at a nearby ATM and later that
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: same day at a pizza parlor. They quickly approached the establishments,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: got the security camera footage, and when they reviewed it
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: they saw a person using his card. It was not Sam.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Oh shit, okay, shit, okay, that three funds. I was
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: just gonna say, I don't know I was on this
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: pizza thing, because I was like, that's so random if
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: you like murder someone and then like want some pizza.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: But then also I don't think that's totally abnormal. With
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: some of the cases we've covered, people do weird shit
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: and then go and eat food.
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there's cases where people have murdered their entire
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: family or whatever, and then they're just sitting there eating
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a pint of ice cream on the couch like.
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: Oh right, yeah, but I mean also food is comfort
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: in a sense too, I suppose.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, fair enough. Now, an employee at the pizza
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: place believed he recognized the person using the card as
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: a local teenager and provided the police with the address
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: of said teenager. Okay, so they took swift action, and
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: the police approached it and surrounded the address at a
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Long Beach residence they suspected Sam might be actually hiding
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: with assistance of someone else. To their surprise, they didn't
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: find Sam at all inside, though, but instead encountered Wesley Freelitch,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: the teenager from the surveillance video which was found at
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: the ATM, and then also the person they described at
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: the pizza parlor. So Wesley explained police that he had
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: been approached by his former theater mentor and that man
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: was Dan Wozniak. Now, Dan claimed to be working for
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: a bail bond agency and requested Wesley to withdraw money
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: using the ATM card. According to Dan, the card owner
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: had skipped out on bail, necessitating a financial transaction. So
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: he's like, hey, he skipped out on his bail. We
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: need money from his account. I you know, his bailbond
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: agent's officer, whatever the case. I'm working with the agency.
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Here's his card. Go get some money for me if
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: you wouldn't mind. And to quote Wesley exactly, quote, he
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: showed me paperwork. It looked legit. It looked like federal
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: police paperwork. So I assumed that he was good. He
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't lying to me, and I trusted him.
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: Did he also tell him to go and get use
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: the card for pizza?
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Maybe maybe he just did that on
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: his own. I'm not sure.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I feel like anyone that just randomly gave me a
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: card and asked me to go do that. I don't
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: think I would.
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a bit of a red flag.
• 16:54
  Speaker 2: Like even you, I'd be like, what the fuck did
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: you do?
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: But in this case, he had this paperwork that looked
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: very jit from a federal agency. So federal paperwork, right, Yeah,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: And so this is a person that he already had
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: a relationship with right, he already knew this guy previously,
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: So now everything about the situation changed the perspective of
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: police officers. It changed the idea of where Sam could
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: be because now they really had no idea where If
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: someone else has his card, that could change things a lot.
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: Why did this guy have his card? And who was
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Dan Wilsniak? So the police face the task of uncovering
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: how Dan, a well regarded actor in the local theater community,
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: had come into possession of Sam's bank card. Dan and
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: his fiance, Raquel Buffett, who was also an actress, resided
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: in the same apartment complex as Sam lo And Behold.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: Can I ask a stupid question? Was that paperwork fake?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: We'll get into anything away. The information I give away
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: is what I've got scripted. Here. We're gonna go over it.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: No fun, okay, Well, where's your head out?
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: It's okay, going What are you thinking?
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: What's your head at right now? Well?
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I was just curious if I'm assuming, like I thought.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: It was kind of a dumb question, But I'm assuming
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: that paperwork was fake, and but I just wanted confirmation.
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: But that's okay, Well, we'll touch on it. Okay, We're
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: almost there, okay, So what had happened was during the investigation.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: Because Dan lives in the same complex as Sam, the
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: police had already interviewed Sam as one of the neighbors
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: who might have heard something or seen something suspicious.
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: Right, Oh, interviewed Dan. Oh?
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: Sorry Dan, sorry? Yeah, in Sam's apartment complex, they interviewed
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Dan as a neighbor. My mistake. Sorry, So they actually
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: interviewed Dan and his fiance Raquel. Now, in their previous conversations,
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: both Dan and Raquel claimed to not have seen Sam
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: since Friday, when they observed him walking with another man
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: sporting a black hat. The police, determined to get answers,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: quickly went back and apprehended Dan and questioned him during
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: his bachelor party. Reportedly, as soon as police stormed in
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: to get him during his bachelor party, visibly the blood
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: drained from his face and he just went pale.
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: Hmm.
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: So Dan caved and confessed to police right away about
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: having Sam's bank card, saying that it was because the
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: two planned a small insurance scheme that they had together.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: He was going to drain Sam's bank account and Sam
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: was going to claim credit card theft. However, Sam apparently
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: in a drug induced state, revealed to him that he
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: had killed Julie before they could profit from any of it.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Okay, this is getting This is getting
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: hard to follow. Well, not hard to fall though, but
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: just like shit.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So this was a scheme that they were reportedly
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: running together. So yes, the paperwork was fake because they
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: were going to commit credit card fraud is what.
• 20:04
  Speaker 2: He is Yeah, and Dan didn't want to be the
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: one that was seen withdrawing the money, correct, So then
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: he asked this other dude.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: Correct, which he probably like, go by yourself a pizza
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: for drawing the money out or something like that is
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: probably how it went, right, Yeah, buy yourself some lunch
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: and withdraw this money for me.
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's funny because before this I was just like
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: I would never do that, but then I was like, oh,
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: if I get a pizza, maybe maybe I wouldn't.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: That changes the whole thing.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: It does, actually, which is so brutal.
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: Yep. So Dan now explained how Sam was now on
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: the run and how Sam had actually threatened Dan to
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: keeping his mouth shut about this murder. To quote Dan quote,
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: He's like, you wrap me out, I'm gonna fucking kill you.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: And better yet, I'm gonna start with your wife. So
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: Dan was arrested at his bachelor party. He's getting married
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: within like forty eight hours, so his wedding is like, come.
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: Shit, that's exactly what you need right before your wedding.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Right, So, Dan continued divulging details to investigators. Initially, he
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: said that he had left Sam at a shopping center
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: parking lot and disposed of Sam's car, maintaining he didn't
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: know anything about Sam's whereabouts. However, investigators decided something wasn't
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: quite right. They weren't getting all the information, so they
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: used a tactic about trying to devolve or to get
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: some more information divulged to them. They took a DNA
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: sample from Dan, okay, saying that we have DNA from you.
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: We're going to see if we can match it up
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: with crime scene DNA. Right right. As soon as that happened,
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: Dan altered his narrative a bit. He admitted to being
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: inside Sam's apartment, and he claimed to have seen Julie's
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: lifeless body, which could potentially be why his DNA might
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: be there. Yeah, but he persisted he didn't not know
• 22:00
  Speaker 1: where Sam was.
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay, I don't even know what to think
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: at this point.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: But okay, sorry, I'm just gonna like reveling in this here.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Well you are, because this is just I don't know.
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: I bet you anything too, especially what I think is
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: it's going to be like the opposite.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Okay, well what do you think? Oh my gosh, you
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: don't If you don't want it, that's fine, we can
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: just keep going.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: Right now. I feel like I'm thinking that Dan is
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: the bad guy, okay, and that like sam Is either
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: is in jeopardy or or I don't even know what
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: a word about. No, right now, I feel like sam
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: Is is not the bad guy, and Dan is Okay,
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: is where my head's at. But I'm still very much
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: so processed.
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: You're not sure in the details, but you're sure Dan
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: is bad. Sam is somewhere.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: Right now at this point in time.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yet O good well to officers. It seemed like Dan
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: might have been nervous about, of course, them finding his DNA,
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: which is why he confessed so easily when they did
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: take that sample, right Otherwise, why would he divulge this
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: new information. So suspicions regarding Dan obviously quickly rose, and
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: for good reason. Dan Rosnik was born in March twenty third,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: nineteen eighty four. Let's get into his history a bit.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: He was a thirty eight year old at the time
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: and had two older brothers who spent much of his time,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: and he spent much of his time sorry in his
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: younger years, with his grandparents after school. Now, Dan's parents
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: worked very hard, very long hours, which is why he
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: would go to his grandparents right and as a result,
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: their family had a very beautiful home and could afford
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: frequent and expensive vacations. They had some money. Growing up,
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: Dan was a good kid who got pretty good grades.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: He quickly found himself drawn to theater and arts. He
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: was very charismatic and soon paved his way into his
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: future career within the theater, now outside acting aspirations. Because
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: he wasn't making much money, if at all, at the theater,
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he couldn't really hold a job for long and he
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: bounced around a lot still no matter where he found himself,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: he kept his dream alive for acting, which brings him
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to where he was now at a community theater as
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: an actor. Dan was beginning to fall apart during his
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: interview with police. He was getting married within the next
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: forty eight hours, and he had a lot at stake
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: right now. He came to the point where he decided
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: he wasn't going to talk any longer. He said enough,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: he was done. But that's when police doubled down. They
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: threatened to arrest him for accessory to murder something. I'm
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: not sure if they had enough to do with his
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: confession or anything so far by even being in the
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: room of the body. I'm not certain they might have,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: but I'm going to assume this was a bluff. Whatever
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: the case, whether a bluff or not, it seemed to work.
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: Dan kept talking and police pushed more. They made another bluff.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: They said they found his DNA. They had a match now,
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: something that Dan didn't protest to. He did, though, make
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: a statement about standing over her body at one point
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: and mentioned two gunshot wounds to the back of her head.
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: This was a piece of information that wasn't known to
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: public or even police.
• 25:23
  Speaker 2: Oh boy.
• 25:24
  Speaker 1: In fact, it took an autopsy to figure out there
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: were two bullet wounds to the back of Julie's head.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: To the naked eye, it only looked like one.
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: Wholly shit, huh.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: Him having knowledge of this information meant he was present
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: at the murder. Yeah, whether he pulled the trigger or not,
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: he was at least there, he knew two shots were fired,
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: and police could now officially arrest him as an accomplice.
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: Well, also, I feel like prior to they could have
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: held him in a sense because he knew that this
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: murder had happened and there was like a dead body
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: somewhere and like didn't contact the police. Isn't that in
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: a sense, That's pretty bad, isn't it.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Well, I mean definitely, And I'm just saying, like when
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: I said it could have been a bluff, like I
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: was just assuming Well yeah, right.
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: But I'm just I'm just brainstorming. I feel like they
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: could have kept him anyway. But wow, that wedding ain't happening.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Don't think so. So Dan confessed to detectives and told
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: them all he knew about the murder of Julie Kibuwishi,
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: and he tried to frame Sam for it, and he
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: did so after he murdered Sam.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: So Sam is no longer No holy shit, Okay, this
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: is not good.
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: This all happened after he was behind bars for only
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: approximately fourteen hours before he started his full confession.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: So he's saying Sam murdered Julie, but then he murdered Sam.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Dan murdered Julie. Oh after murdering Sam, and he did
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: so he murdered Julie to try and frame Sam for it. Okay,
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: I'll explain here. Don't worry, don't.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know you will, but wow. Okay.
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: So authorities were meant to think Sam was on the
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: run and they were never going to find him. So
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: there was a murder of Sam. We'll get into why,
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: and then afterwards he killed Julie to try and pin
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: Julie's murder on Sam and explain why Sam is missing
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: because now he's on the run, maybe fled the country.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: We'll never find him because he's the murderer. Meanwhile, he's
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: not He's actually dead. So it was a red herring.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: Wow, jez Okay.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: So regarding it all in Dan's words quote, I'm crazy
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: and I did it. I killed Julie and I killed Sam.
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: Holy shit. It shouldn't take him very long though, Like
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: this is just like spiraling. But I did call that,
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: you did. I did.
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: It's a good job.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: Also on the text messages too, but we'll touch on
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: that shortly.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: EWW, I should probably be a detective.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: You probably should. So Sam was, as I mentioned earlier,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: a well liked guy, and he had, you know, a
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: lot of friends. He was a social butterfly, and he
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: had befriended Dan over time. At one point their conversation.
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: In their conversations, it had come up that Sam had
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: a good chunk of savings in his account, sixty two
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars in combat pay from his time in service
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: with the military. This got Dan's attention. He may have
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: been active at his local theater, but he certainly did
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: not have a job with no income. Dan had a
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: lot of financial trouble. He was getting deeper and deeper
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: into debt, facing eviction soon even, and he was getting
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: married in only a few days, which costs a lot,
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: plus an extrava again honeymoon all on top of it all,
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: in that moment, Dan saw a solution to his problems.
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: Wow, he was.
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: Going to kill Sam and take his money.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, that is brutal. Yeah, the only thing though
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: that had At one point I think you would said
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: Dan's family has money, correct, So that's why I was like, Okay,
• 29:22
  Speaker 2: well maybe it's not Dan because like his family's well
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: off or whatever. But that doesn't necessarily mean like the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: kid can have money.
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: But he's used to having money, growing up with money,
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: right and now he.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: Doesn't, Yeah, which is just god. Sam earned that money
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: like that's right brutal. And he thought they were friends.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: Like it makes you think twice kind of like who
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: you can totally trust?
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: Right, Well, just wait till you hear how exactly it
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: played out.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Oh gosh, okay.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: So Dan had lured Sam to the attic of the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: nearby theater by asking him to help move some stuff,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: one of which was a couch. Now, in his words quote,
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I said, you need to bend down and help me
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: lift this thing up. And when he bent down, I
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: grabbed the gun and I shot him. One shot wasn't
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: enough to kill Sam, though after he had pulled the trigger.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Sam was still alive, but Sam didn't know what happened. Again,
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: in Dan's words, he said, I need help. Something hit me.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: It felt like an electric shock. I reloaded and I
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: fired again.
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh.
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: So Dan shot him and Sam was calling out to
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: him for help and Dan shot him again.
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: Wow okay that and because he Sam could not comprehend
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: that Dan would hurt him. Yeah, Like there was no
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: question in his mind.
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: No question that Dan was the source of the pain.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Oh ohly shit, that doesn't mean my heart like drop.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: I could solve right now, but I'm gonna hole. I
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: want to try holding it together, but my eyes are watering.
• 31:02
  Speaker 2: Wow that is so sad. Fun holy shit.
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Dan's a piece of shit.
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: Wow wow.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: Okay, So he continued his story and told police how
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: he then disemboweled Sam's body and deep disposed of him
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: in El Dorado Park in Long Beach, California. With this
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: information from Dan, police began a search for his remains.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: Sam's decapitated head was discovered on what would have been
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: his twenty seventh birthday. It would be just two hours
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: after Dan performed in the musical nine on stage that
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: he would turn his attention to Julie Kibbuwishi. Using Sam's phone,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: Dan lured Julie to his apartment through text messages where
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: the very same ones that we read earlier. And yes,
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: you're right. I don't think Sam would have ever said
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: anything about sex, but Dan didn't know otherwise. So these
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: are Sam's words arding what happened. When she arrived quote,
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: Julie was wearing like a crown Tiara. She had just
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: come from her brothers, and I said, like, Sam just
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: called me and he's going through some stuff. She said, yeah,
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: me too. I said, well, I have a key, let's
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: go in. And then I said, oh, by the way,
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: did you see this on Sam's bed? Lean over? Look
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: at it right there. When she was leaned over, I
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: put two bullets in the back of her head.
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, this guy's a oh yeah, piece of work. Wow.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Now I was unable to find any comments from Dan
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: regarding why her jeans were removed.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Oh. Yeah, I was just gonna be asking this because
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: didn't the parents say it looked like sexual activity had happened.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, But according to prosecutors, Dan then quote desecrated her body,
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: pulling her pants down to make it look like Sam
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: had raped her. Now, the exact reasoning for the word
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: the use of the word desecration, I'm unaware of, but
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: there could be many assumptions on what played out in
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: that aspect. It would be on December sixteenth, twenty fifteen,
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: when a jury convicted Dan Wozniak of two counts of
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: first degree murder. Following this verdict, a California judge sends
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: him to death during a hearing in September of twenty sixteen,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: placing him on death row. At the sentencing hearing, the
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: parents of the victims were given the opportunity to confront him.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: One of the things Sam's dad said, Steve Hare quote,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: my only regret is this state won't let me kill
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: this coward myself.
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh. Yeah, I honestly don't blame that statement
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: from him whatsoever.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: Julie's mother, June Kibuwishi, said this, You took my daughter, beautiful, caring,
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: loving daughter's precious life to cover up your heinous and
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: planned crimes. Did I ever see any remorse? No, not
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: even once.
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: Oh boy, man, just that's like the spiral effect too,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: of the damage caused, right, yep, Like you take two
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: people's lives, but it's just affecting so many more people
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: and changing their lives and making them worse.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: And well, he killed Sam for sixty two thousand dollars,
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: and then he killed Julie to cover up Sam's death,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: so he placed a value of thirty one thousand dollars
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: on each life.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: Now, despite his sentencing in twenty nineteen, California Governor Gavin
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Newsoen Sorry, implemented a moratarium on the death penalty in
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: the state. As a result, over seven hundred inmates on
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: death row, including Dan Wozniak, are not currently facing execution.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: In November of twenty eighteen, a different jury found Raquel Buffett,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: Dan's girlfriender.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Fee I was gonna ask about her.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Guilty of being an accessory after the fact. She was
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: accused of lying to investigators to protect Dan. She was
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: subsequently sentenced to thirty two months in jail.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: Holy shit, So does she know about it or just
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: find out about it after?
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: I wonder, I don't know for sure.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, because if she found about it, found out about.
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: It after well, I mean, she was guilty of being
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: an accessory after the fact, So my assumption is she
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: found about out about it after.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: Gosh, could you imagine if you found out like this
• 35:44
  Speaker 2: man that you're about to marry is like cold blooded killer.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: I feel like I'd just be like, fuck you kidding,
• 35:51
  Speaker 2: I like dodged the bullet kind of here by I'm
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: not marrying you.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: Well, by the sounds of it, she's like you did
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: what wait, you got how much money?
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: Oh?
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Of what it seems like to me?
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Gross?
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: So I think they are two peas in a pod.
• 36:08
  Speaker 2: Yikes.
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: Okay, So that is the story of the death and
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: murder of Julie Kibawishi and Sam Hare And the title
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: of this episode is actually the it gonna be the
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: murder of Julie Kibawishi strictly to keep the story intact here,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: but it is certainly the two of them.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because that was something too during this that I
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: was almost like, well, you're just saying it was a
• 36:33
  Speaker 2: murder of Julie, So like that made me kind of
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: question Sam a little bit.
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: Too, But well, I didn't want to give the whole
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: story away.
• 36:41
  Speaker 2: It makes sense, yeah.
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: But yeah, because the whole idea is at the beginning,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: everyone right away Sam did some shit, right.
• 36:49
  Speaker 2: And I didn't think that though.
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: No, really, well, I mean that's what parents thought right away,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: like Sam, what did you do? That's what police thought.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: That's what seemingly everyone thought. Sam killed Julie and went
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: on the run. Now there's various reasons on why they
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: could think that, one of being potentially the PTSD for
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: his time and service.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he had a criminal history, so things weren't
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: looking good, especially considering like, okay, if a husband or
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: wife dies, it's the other person that's usually suspect number
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: one it is. Yeah, so she's found in Sam's apartment.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: It's like he's that role right then and there.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: Man. I mean, I don't like, neither of them needed
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: to die whatsoever, obviously, but for him to also go
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: about taking Julie's life seems that like next level? Really, yeah,
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: because I like he could have easily, he could have
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: gotten away with it without also needing to kill her.
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, he didn't get away with it either way.
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: But do you know what I mean?
• 37:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know what you mean. What you're basically saying
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: is he went above and beyond and why. Yeah, it
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: was unknown necessary. Both were unnecessary. But it's just okay,
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: you unnecessarily killed one and then you unnecessarily killed another. Yeah,
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: it's like how far are you going to just go
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: for a couple bucks?
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: And it seemed like both of these individuals are pieces
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: of shit? Well no, Sam and.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: Juli Okay, not that I was talking.
• 38:17
  Speaker 2: To amazing, wonderful people. Yeah, and now they're gone.
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because Dan was broke.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Because Dan is literally a disgusting piece of shit.
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, he's a douche canoe for sure. I don't think
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: I've said that word for a while. He's a douche canoe,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: a massive douche canoe.
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: Big time time was like one hundred.
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: No kidding, but yeah, that was the episode. Hopefully you
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: guys enjoyed it. I'm curious how you guys did on
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: trying to navigate and follow the actual evidence. Nicole did
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: really good. You right away picked up on those text
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: messages like that that doesn't sound like Sam. Yeah, so
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: good on you for.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: That, I know. But then I did say unless it
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: was like an inside joke that I didn't know about,
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: but that just seems so random. Yeah, be like, no sex,
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: but I need to talk to you, but we're actually friends,
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: Like it just is so random.
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: So wow, that story is kind of devastating.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Isn't it. It kind of broke my heart researching this one,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: no kidding. I felt really bad for Sam, especially because
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: like not only was yeah, he had a criminal, criminal history,
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: but then he went and he turned his life around
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: being deployed and servicing his country and then going out
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: and getting an education and making all these friends, and
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: then Dan just pins these horrible things on him. Yeah,
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: so it's like the last thing that could have thankfully
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: it's not. But the last thing that could have been
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: his legacy in his life was that he murdered Julie
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: when he was just trying to be a good person.
• 39:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, brutal.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: So thankfully Dan was found out for the piece of
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: shit he is and at least, at very least Sam's
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: name can be clean because he does serves that he
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: deserves so much more.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean he Dan's name was found out, and
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: like this was found out because he he couldn't hold
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: it in. Oh too, mostly like I mean, maybe investigators
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: would have come to this, but like he couldn't hold
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: it in.
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: No, no, he couldn't hold it in.
• 40:15
  Speaker 2: He just he's spilled, thankfully.
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyways, if you guys want to check out more
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: of our socials like Patreon where you can get more
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: of these episodes, they're all linked down below. If you
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: want to watch this the video version of this where
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: I'm doing hand gestures frantically to the camera right now,
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: it will be live on YouTube in a few days
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: following this. I'm not too sure exactly what day it
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: depends on how long editing will be, but in the
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: few coming times we'll try and get a schedule figured out,
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: but it will be on YouTube. We have two channels
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: down below. We have one Wicked Life, which is our vlog,
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: and Wicked and Grim which is where the podcast will
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: be posts. Both of those links are in the description.
• 40:53
  Speaker 2: Awesome, Yeah, good stuff.
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening, Thank you for being here. You
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: guys are amazing as always, and until next time.
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: Until next time, stay Wicked.