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Tree Planting Season is Almost Here: What You Need to Know · Talking Trees with Davey Tree

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Deby Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Doug Oester.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm joined this week by Eric Beneter.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: He is a district manager for the Debbie Tree Expert Company at the Toronto West Office in Canada.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Today we are talking about tree planting season is almost here.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Probably already there for you, Eric.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And what you need to know.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Eric.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, I'm doing good, thanks.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: I want to tell you a real quick uh tree story from Canada.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, my only tree story from Canada.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: I uh came to see the Rolling Stones about an hour and a half north of Toronto, and two Canadians who might have had a few too many Molsons were in a huge argument over what a spruce tree was.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: And so that was uh interesting to see.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one was sure it was a spruce, and the other one was sure it wasn't.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, if you only could have been there, Eric, to straighten them out.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, once you get those guys going, then uh it can be a tough conversation.
• 1:19
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh tell me about your tree planting season in Toronto.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, when is the prime time for your planting?
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, generally we have two seasons.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, spring and fall are the main ones.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, usually when the weather's a bit cooler, temperatures are a bit lower.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, summers can be pretty hot.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: So usually that's not really a great time to be planting.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: It's a bit, you know, stressful on the trees.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: When is your favorite time to plant a tree?
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Usually we recommend in the fall, um, October, I would say is is really the best time when the trees are uh yeah.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: And before we get started on the planting, tell me about your season this year.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: How was it?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been uh somewhat of a difficult season for the trees.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's been pretty hot weather, so we're noticing a lot of drought stress is coming up.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, usually those kinds of symptoms show up you know a little bit later on in the season, but we're starting to see that.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of insect damage, you know.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Spongy moth has been picking up for us this uh this season as well.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me about that pest.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know anything about it.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Spongy Moth used to be called Gypsy Moth.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if they changed the name everywhere who changed the name, but uh yeah, Spongy Moth, Gypsy Moth.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's currently called Spongy Moth now.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, targeting you know, oak trees, maples, things like that.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: So down where I'm at in the States in Pittsburgh, uh we had really bad gypsy moths probably 10 years ago, and nature created balance.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on up there?
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: Is this something new or is this just something that's been going on for forever?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's part of the same cycle.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: So usually it's you know a seven, eight-year cycle, um, six, seven, eight years.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, then you know, the the caterpillar takes off, and then um, then you know, the natural uh predators of it, you know, take over and then the cycle declines.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so now we're kind of on that upward swing, upward trajectory for the uh the caterpillar.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, like you, the there's nothing like it for me to be planting trees in the fall.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I feel so good about planting in the fall as opposed to spring when you got to keep watering them if we don't get rain.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and certainly you're gonna water in the fall if you don't get rain, but it's not as critical when you try and get that tree through July.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: But planting in the fall for me is is my favorite thing to do with trees.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: What is the biggest mistake you think homeowners make when they try and plant their own tree?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: I would say one of the biggest mistakes.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there you see a lot of mistakes, but one of the biggest mistakes is um leaving the leaving the stakes and tree ties on for too long.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's a common one that we see that the tree gets girdled.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and usually the problem with that is that the symptoms are, you know, the impact on the tree only shows up one or two years down the road.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then usually by that time it's a little bit too late to help the tree out once the tree does get girdled.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that that's a big problem that we see.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Another problem is either planting the tree too deep or planting the tree too shallow.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So getting that balance right, um, you know, planting where the root flare is, you know, slightly level or just above the soil level is another common uh challenge that homeowners have with planting trees.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So let's talk about that.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys plant a tree, uh, first off, do you prefer bald and burlapped or container or bare root?
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: What's your favorite way to get a tree, or does it depend on the size of the tree?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it depends on the size of the tree.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in the city of Toronto where I work, a lot of the trees that we plant are for um replacement trees.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like when we cut a tree down, then uh certain bylaws that uh we would need to replace a tree with a certain caliper size or diameter size.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, those trees are generally come in bald and burlapped.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: The those are usually heavy root balls, you know, one, two, three hundred-pound root balls, and then it's very difficult to plant.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um so usually I would prefer, or you know, it's easier to plant a smaller size root ball um with a smaller size tree.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: So for us as homeowners, most of it is usually in like a container, or would you say it could be either way, bald or burlap or in a container?
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: Generally in a container, um, the root ball sizes are a little smaller, more manageable.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's easier to buy it from the nursery in a container and bring it home and plant it yourself.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's a bit more manageable that way.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Those big bald and burlap trees, I gotta leave that to the pros.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's just too unwieldy to you know even get it in the truck and get it tied down and then put the flag on it, and then you know how many people is it gonna take to get it out of there.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just start with a container tree.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: How much bigger should the hole be around than the actual root ball?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely you would want the size of the hole that you're digging to be generally about two times the diameter of the root ball itself.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so say you have a one-foot diameter uh root ball, then the size of the hole should be you know uh proportionally bigger in size, because that'll give the the roots um you know enough loose soil to grow into and establish itself.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: It'll give the tree a better chance of success.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're doing it, how do you measure it?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how are you sure that it's the right depth?
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and we need to talk a little bit about that root flare and explain to people what that means when you want to keep that above grade.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, usually our crews have a measuring tape and we just measure out the root ball size.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, a good rule of thumb is if you just presumably you're digging with a spade or shovel, you can just use the handle and measure um on the spade itself the depth of the root ball, and then once you're digging your hole, measure out the size of the hole or the diet, you know, the depth or diameter of the hole, and that way you have a good sense of uh the size.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: So the root flares, I guess, pretty self-explanatory that it's just where the trunk meets the roots, right?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And it kind of is flared.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a good description?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you would notice um a curve in the stem.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: So the the main stem generally is pretty straight and vertical, and then there would be a gradual slope into the roots.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you would want that to be visible once you're planting um planting the tree.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: And when that's not visible, and when that's planted too deep, what happens?
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, isn't it?
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not good.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's not good for the long-term health of the tree.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's another one of those things that really shows up down the road.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the impact on the tree shows up um negatively, you know, three, four, or five years or more uh down the road.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So there's problems um like moisture buildup on the trunk, uh, speeds up decay on that main stem, because the wood of that stem is has different physical properties versus the roots uh that are you know have evolved to be living under the soil.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So when that main stem has soil piled up onto it, then um decays quicker and leads to problems.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_00: And when you're planting, are you watering right away?
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you would want to water um, you know, a good soaking uh once you plant the tree, and then after that, watering pretty frequently.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: It depends on how much rainfall you're getting, but generally once or twice a week, you'd want to have a give a tree a good soaking, um, help the tree out.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: Mulching?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_00: Mulching definitely would be recommended.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um usually you would want to put out, you know, maybe two, three inches of mulch around the base of the tree.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Again, not piled up against the main stem.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you'd want the mulch to be uh around the base of the tree, but not piled up directly touching on the stem.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: The most common thing between all these podcasts that I've done for Davy is volcano mulching and how bad it is.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I I swear we talk about it.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I we talk about it every every episode, but it's important.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you plant if you're planting a tree, you don't want all that mulch up against the base of the tree.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You want it to look more like a donut.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh, and I always ask this question, Eric: what's it like when I'm in the truck with you and you're driving by and you see one of these HOAs or one of these properties with all that volcano mulch?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: What am I gonna hear?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, it's a pretty common uh common sight that we see, and it's actually down the road from us as a landscaping supply store, and uh and all of their trees are uh volcano mulched, and every time I drive by, it just yeah, makes me uh scratch my head.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: One question about when we're planting a tree, as far as the native soil is concerned, when we're digging that that planting hole, is that what we planted in, or is there something you're adding in there to make it better, or would you prefer the native soil, or does it depend on the situation?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say it depends on what the condition of the soil is that you're putting the tree into.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if it's the typical residential house or property or you know, urban setting, um, because we work a lot in the city here, the soil quality is very poor, compacted, um, a lot of clay, heavy clay soil.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: So in those cases, usually what we do is backfill with just good quality um soil, like nothing, nothing fancy, but better soil than what is originally there, and that you know helps the tree out.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if you're planting in a spot that already has good soil, then generally that would be sufficient.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, the typical urban setting, you're starting off with poor quality soil, so you want to help the tree out.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly in some situations when you're replacing trees, you don't have an option to move it a little bit this way, a little bit that way.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: It goes in that spot, right?
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and definitely if um yeah, sometimes we're putting trees where there's old um old stumps or you know, um the spot isn't great for the tree, so adding in some extra good quality soil helps out.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And what about staking?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, staking is um can be somewhat of a a contentious topic.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um generally I trend away from staking.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I would say it mostly depends on the size of the tree and you know the size of the upper canopy in relation to the size of the root ball.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: If it's a very broad, large canopy and a small root size root ball, then staking for maybe one or two seasons would help stabilize the tree until the tree has a chance to put out some new new root growth.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um for small size trees, you know, less than five feet tall.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, staking is not really necessary.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is it better to plant a smaller root ball or a bigger root ball when it comes to to planting, or again, is it case by case?
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the larger the root ball, usually that means that the tree has more roots from the nursery, you know, because when the trees are grown at the nursery, they're dug up and transported um to you know either the retail nursery or to the to the home uh property.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Generally, the larger the size of the root ball, the larger the the more roots there are available to keep the tree healthy.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um problem with that is that it then becomes heavier and um you know more difficult to work with.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the larger, the more roots you have, is better for the tree.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: I would say it is also um generally you'd have better success with the tree um establishing itself when it's of a smaller size.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And um yeah, the tree is more, you know, the younger the tree is, the more able it is to withstand the stresses of tree planting.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I save money when I put the smaller tree in, right?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's it, yeah.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: It uh it's a lot cheaper and less expensive on the uh installation costs, and just you gotta wait a little longer to get a nice large tree.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh up there in Toronto area, how late can you plant trees?
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh usually for us, we can plant up until November.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, really, you can plant any time of year, just as long as the ground's not frozen.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um for us, usually that's end of November is a good time.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: When you find the right place for the right tree, what are a couple of your favorites that might not get planted as often as they should?
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, up here, some some of the more um native varieties that don't get planted all that often would be um like hickories or um some of those nut-producing ones, yeah, shagbark hickory.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um you see it here and there, but not too often.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And when you do see a large mature one, it's yeah, a standout tree.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: When homeowners are talking to you about planting, uh, is there anything else that is a little bit off the beaten path that if they're up for it and if the space is right for it, that you might try and talk them into, not talk them into, but just show them that it's available?
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of there are um uh different dogwoods, and I would say that there are um generally what I recommend to clients is that they talk to a nursery, um, because there are, as you say, like you know, a lot of different varieties of trees and shrubs, and people tend to lean towards, you know, the common blue spruce and uh red maple and you know the classics.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are a lot of good options like um red buds and service berries for smaller growing trees or you know, hackberries um for like some larger trees.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there are good options out there.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, you can't go wrong with a service berry.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that tree.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh native, pretty white flowers, and then the birds always get the berries before I do.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they're hard to beat off of the birds or the squirrels and raccoons.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but yeah, they do have a nice fall color as well.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: Certain varieties have uh really nice red leaves in the fall, so it's a good tree.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Anything I missed in asking you like about tree planting that you wanted to talk about, other mistakes maybe that that homeowners make uh before I let you go?
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, uh one thing would be picking the right tree for the right spot.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um a common mistake that we get called out for, um, or you know, situation to fix is really the wrong tree being planted in the wrong spot.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then 10 years down the road, you're suddenly having problems with um, you know, interferent branches close to the house or power lines.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so visualizing the location um and seeing, you know, down the road, because usually the tree is a long-term investment.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: So planting the right tree in the right spot is is really saves you a lot of headache down the road.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: So if you have a small space, then planting a smaller growing tree, or if you have a large space, then planting, you know, a good full-size broad canopy tree versus a small one in those cases would be good.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Well, as just like driving by that volcano mulch, when you drive by, especially for me, new developments, and you can just see right off the bat the trees are planted way too close to the house.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Drive you crazy, right?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: It looks nice when it's planted, but uh yeah, five, ten years down the road, it's it's gonna be uh a problem.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right, to finish up, uh I want to know a little bit about how you got into this and why the job's right for you.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I got into um I started at Davy Tree actually in Vancouver.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I had just finished off um a job tree planting actually uh in uh I don't know how big it is in the US, but in Canada, um like reforestation planting is um a common industry job for the summer times usually.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I had done that for a couple seasons and then needed a job for the winter.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: So I started in Vancouver as just as a groundsperson, um and then worked my way up from there, climbing, doing plant health care, then into sales and being manager now.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um what I like about the job is the interaction between you know nature and the urban environment, you know, the interactions between being outside every day, but you still you know get to use a chainsaw and um but it's all within the city.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's pretty uh a cool environment to work, you know, climbing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, for us here, we have jobs downtown Toronto with the Sea and Tower, and it's uh a good balance between being outside, but still, you know, within the city.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Vancouver one of the like best climates in the world for for plants?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I visited once and I never saw hydrangeas grow like that anywhere else.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: It just seemed like the perfect, perfect climate.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, Vancouver's a great spot for trees and shrubs.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, rhododendrons and big tall 50-foot cedar hedges.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh yeah, it's a good spot for trees.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Eric, good stuff.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for your time.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for schooling us on planting a tree, and uh I wish you the best up there.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I know it's been hot, but it'll cool off and it'll be planting time.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for being on the show, and we'll talk to you again soon.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me on.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_01: Appreciate it.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I hope this is the year I finally plant that black gum tree that I've wanted uh and one that the arborists talk about often for its wonderful fall color.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davy Tree Expert Company.
• 21:02
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• 21:10
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• 21:12
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• 21:16
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• 21:21
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• 21:25
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• 21:29
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• 21:30
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• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: Trees are the answer.