Latest / Beyond the Paycheck / Steven Slutsky Company, Head of Global Total Rewards
Transcript
- Steven Slutsky (00:42) Hi, so Courtney, I am Steven Slutsky and I am the Vice President of Total Rewards and HR Operations for Sophos', which is a cybersecurity company that is global in nature and we have people essentially in 30-odd countries around the globe. And I actually have what I like to call a varied background, but my colleagues have sometimes called a checkered past. because I started my career as a labor and employment and benefits attorney doing litigation around employee issues. And then I moved on to actually run a business unit for an international telecommunications group where I also stood up the HR and legal functions. At which point I then moved on to being a consultant. being hired by boards of directors and executives to talk about executive and board compensation and then broader compensation. And now the last few years I've been in corporate in the HR space running total rewards practices and engaging in lot of mergers and acquisitions activities. Courtney Cardin (01:57) Well, you are in good company, Stephen. I do am a recovering attorney with a brief sprint stint in antitrust as well. So we'll have to do a separate podcast on mergers, acquisitions, ⁓ and recovering from being a litigator. So I'd love to dive in and talk more about a different side of your personal background, your earliest money memory. ⁓ Do you? Steven Slutsky (02:13) Yes. Courtney Cardin (02:25) know what your earliest money memory was and how it shaped the way you currently see sort of security or freedom or responsibility. Steven Slutsky (02:36) Absolutely. So my father owned a number of retail pharmacies in his career. And this is back in the day before people use credit cards or some form of online transaction for everything. Everything was cash. And I remember sitting at the dining room table with my father coming in with large amounts of cash and then funneling them into different envelopes that were labeled for each thing. Some were for the business and some were for personal. So if we wanted to take a vacation, there was a vacation envelope in which money was funneled into. And what I learned, I learned from that pretty early on that you can't just spend. You have to understand how much you're spending and where it's going. And of course they had a savings envelope or multiple envelopes, which worked out well. So that's how I learned early on that There is a way to budget. This was the envelope system. Courtney Cardin (03:39) The envelope system is a analog and yet very tried and true system. So some of our favorite people who work in the financial wellness space advocate for that. You don't often hear about people using it. So it's great to hear that you had that exposure and you had the savings envelopes and the travel envelopes and the, you know, probably school preparation envelopes and the, you know, emergency savings envelopes and things like that. that's so interesting to hear you explain that. When it came to your first paycheck and your first job, do you remember what you did with that paycheck? you put it in your envelopes? Steven Slutsky (04:18) So, this isn't really my first paycheck, but the first payment I ever got, I ate because I used to work in my father's business and he wouldn't pay me, but he used to claim he should pay me because I out ate any salary I would get from him. But my first paycheck actually was when I worked at a flight school. I was in college and I had become a pilot and I remember that I got my paycheck, I turned it over, and I signed it back to the flight school to pay for all my flying. And that was a real epiphany for me about how my parents had it right. You got to figure out what you're spending and what you're bringing in. And that had a big impact on me because right after that paycheck, I said, I've got to do something different. And I take that to my conversations around how we treat our employees to this day. Courtney Cardin (05:22) Well, you're jumping ahead ⁓ in the things I want to ask you, so I'm very excited about it. It's so interesting that you were multitasking from that early stage. Not many people became a pilot in college. That's certainly not what I was doing in college. It's very impressive. So let's just jump into it. How does that money story influence how you're thinking about pay and benefit for your employees today? Steven Slutsky (05:51) So Courtney, it's really about a lot of different things. And people want to be valued. That's incredibly important. And if they do not feel valued, and that's why we have what everyone calls the employee value proposition, but which is routinely ignored by most managers because it's not their area of expertise and they just think it's all about money. Well, people do want to be valued in multiple ways and compensation and benefits are part of it. And it's not just about the actual dollars going in, which it is. And if there is some partner at home, it really is right about that. But and we have to pay them fairly. They want to be paid fairly, not just when they talk to their friends, but when they look in the newspaper. and see what people are getting. When they go online, they go to the glass store, wherever they go, and then when they talk to their peers. And we all know it's a different world. I have kids who are 28 and 32, and they tell me that every one of their friends knows what they earn and they know what their friends earn. And that goes everywhere, including to colleagues. So what I learned was it has to be about fairness, and putting aside people who overspend, we have to pay them not just for value, but something that is enough that they can live on that they can't want to stay. And there's a reason that the average tenure of new employee right now is three years. mean, part of it is paid because Courtney Cardin (07:35) Well. Steven Slutsky (07:39) How often do you hear a company bring on somebody at a higher compensation than the person who left? That is just ridiculous. And I focus on that a lot in setting pay and in setting my conversations with managers. And that's the pay side. Then there's the benefit side. again, people want to be valued. The fertility benefits discussion, which nobody pays. and now everyone feels they have to, not saying that's a bad thing, but even if no one ever uses it because it shows the commitment to the employees. And it's again an important piece that we are not just having them work and then they have no money left. Courtney Cardin (08:31) Absolutely, it sounds like not just the compensation, but the total rewards package is really designed around showing the individual employee the value that they are bringing to the company. So I want to double click on that. ⁓ Where are you seeing compensation and benefits most often breaking down for employees today, whether in pay equity, transparency, total rewards understanding? Why? Now that you're showing and you're giving them fertility benefits or some of these more quote unquote fringe wellness benefits, where's the breakdown in usage and sort of seeing that as the value for them? Steven Slutsky (09:16) It comes in a couple of different ways. Way number one is communication. We've got to communicate early, we have to communicate often, and I cannot tell you that a number of times I would hear when I joined a new organization from people, how do people even know about this? Well, it's on the internet, okay? I have never been in an organization or talked to an organization that likes its internet and thinks that people can find it. Or we sent out an email. That's great. When was the last one? Well, was at the beginning. Forget it. Nobody knows what's in their packages. I had a story of an individual who was on her spouse's health benefits and we had a health fair and she had no idea of all these great benefits that we offered and she was a recruiter and said, wow, now I can start talking benefits. Courtney Cardin (09:58) Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (10:15) Now that's not her fault. mean, maybe a little, right? But it's the fault of the rewards function not saying, do you understand what we have? Not just when I talk to my folks, they said, well, we sent an email out with attaching it. It's not good enough. And it's not good enough for employees. So that's the one big thing. People don't read. And I'm as guilty of it as anybody else. Emails come in, right, Courtney? I don't read it. Courtney Cardin (10:19) you Steven Slutsky (10:44) But if somebody makes an effort to engage with me, whether it's through a business partner or whether it's us doing reward, reward function, doing sessions, that's really important. And the second is the pay and pay fairness, perceived pay fairness is absolutely critical. There was a ⁓ large accounting firm that decided that they were going to have Courtney Cardin (10:47) Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (11:12) complete trade pay transparency and with their raises that year they were going to show people the ranges that they were in. Great idea. Okay, sort of. You cannot imagine Courtney the sheer number of people who had questions and complaints about them saying, wait, I'm the most experienced person here. Why am I below the midpoint of the range? And they said, Oh, we don't know. If you're going to do that, how can you not test that with everybody? And they wound up having to devote much greater budget because people had complaints for good reason. So it's about perceived fairness. And if you can make that perceived fairness work, everything is going to Courtney Cardin (12:04) That's such an interesting point around the perceived fairness as well. I'm wondering what have you or some of your colleagues in this space done to move from attracting talent to transforming lives? Steven Slutsky (12:22) done a number of different things, which I've done, some colleagues have done. And first of all, it is really taking a look at the pay structures and understanding that it's not just math, which is what it devolves to because people are too busy because they don't do pay ranges until they're ready for the annual pay planning process. And now they're inundated. If you can take it in a quieter period, you can actually look at them. It's not just the math. It is what goes behind that math. Does this make sense? Are we putting paying people equitably among similar people? And it's not about gender equality or this equality or that equality. It's about everyone's equality and not everyone's going to be paid equally. And are we comfortable with being able to say to somebody who complains, here is why. Most people don't want to be able to do that. They may say they're comfortable with it, but when you ask them why, you get vague answers. So it absolutely has to look at the structure you have and look at everybody in the structure. That may be a lot of people, but here's the great thing. AI is not going to answer that for you, but boy, is it good at pulling the math, the data out. Courtney Cardin (13:47) Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (13:47) and allowing you to look at the nuances and then make decisions based on it. That's what AI is fabulous for. That sort of item so you can look at the nuance. And to me, that's number one. Number two, take a look at your benefits plans for a number of reasons. One is every insurer out there has a lot of great data on your usage and usage of other organizations compared to yours. So take a look at it. See what others are doing, see what you're not, see what you're doing that no one's using. I mean, the easy one is student loans. Having a match to your 401k for the money you pay for your student loans. Ridiculous! Why would we do that? And people love it. And it's a great thing because my point about not having money when your paycheck is given to you and you're signing it over. Courtney Cardin (14:24) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (14:45) Well, if you're paying a lot for student loans, think of how good it makes you feel about your employer when they are empathetic to your situation and you can actually get that quote unquote free money paying off this debt that's hanging over your head like the sword of Damocles. It's fabulous. Courtney Cardin (15:07) It's great to have that. I love the way you put that, especially, you know, as I am working to pay off the debt from my past, my employer is rewarding me for that by investing in my future, by investing in my 401k. So that, I could see why that would also, you know, create a sense of loyalty and appreciation for the company. So that's a really interesting way of sort of also selling that. In addition to some of those innovative ideas around matching for student loan payments, what compensation or benefits trends do you believe will most shape the future of the employee experience in the next 12 to 24 months? Steven Slutsky (15:54) Yeah, so here's what I'm thinking. First of all, it's about consistency. Absolutely, we've talked about that. It is also about, and we've talked about it, the AI, right? Using AI to help you as a... The next mindset is a big mindset change. And people hate it, but it is. It's not about the top of the house. It is not just now got to take care of executives. No question they have a lot of stress on them and they're the ones making the big make big decisions. Gotta pay him. However, we have to recognize that paying somebody huge amounts of money and then not paying the rest of the organization because they're not as important doesn't work. that people want to feel valued and they feel valued by looking around as we said what others are getting and what the executives are getting is a piece and there is no better way to disenfranchise an employee than to tell them that we do not have money for raises. We're going to be below the market raise. Courtney Cardin (17:09) Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (17:15) and then seeing the proxy of it's a bubble company or hear about it because there are no secrets in companies, people getting 10, 15 % raises at the top of the house. The top house doesn't have to mean the senior executives, it's at every level. So fairness is very, very important. And I think that you're going to see a mindset shift around, well, I'm already working that and seeing it, that we have to be much better about what the rest of the get rather than just save all the money for the most senior people. Courtney Cardin (17:52) And we completely agree. are all about shifting money mindsets ⁓ at Laura. what you're saying totally aligns. Are there specific things that you're seeing, you're doing, you're seeing your colleagues do to put these sort of mindset shifts, guardrails, or governance in place, specifically around keeping pay both fair and empowering? Steven Slutsky (18:22) I am so it actually is starting with communication but this is communication up the line or across the line rather than down. This communication is getting people to buy into new philosophies around we need to do X because we have to keep our people and look what happens when we turn. We are trying to demonstrate the return on investment for paying people a little more, or a lot more is the case maybe, and the replacement costs. Now everybody knows, yes, there's a cost to replacement, and everyone knows there's a quantifiable number behind it. But we are really focusing on not only that, but the pain points that people are seeing, especially around whether it's the business, whether you're a business to business or business to consumer, the disruption Courtney Cardin (19:11) Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (19:20) to this from churn. And with the average tenure being around three years, churn has increased significantly, especially at the more junior levels of the organization. And we are demonstrating by partnering with the business, HR business partners and the managers who are on the front lines to show where we are just not achieving the KPIs or the OKRs or the goals, whatever you want to call them, for the organization because we're not getting them down here and we're not getting them here. We're beginning to get them here. And that is where it is. When you show a decision maker that they are not going to get paid or they're going to get yelled at or whatever it may be because they're not hitting their targets and here's why it helps make all the difference. So that's what a lot of my colleagues and I are working on. Courtney Cardin (20:21) That's so interesting. I know we're coming up on time, so I want to double click on one thing, because you mentioned AI, and I want to dive into the tools and innovation you're seeing in this space. I think there's a lot of interesting stuff coming out of the tech world. What tools, data, or automations are helping you measure and improve financial wellness and pay equity in your own company? And what would you like to see from those tools? What kind of information are you really looking to extract? Steven Slutsky (20:53) First thing I have to get in my soapbox for 10 seconds, AI should not be the end state. It's a tool to get you to the end state, and which is not to cut people, but to be a better company. So put that out there. What we're seeing, I will tell you that, know, Microsoft, Colt, have and They're some tools, a fabulous. for allowing people to self-service to find information they need. Remember I said, it's on the internet, no one can find it? Well, if you can type in, what's our parental leave, and it gives you the link to the policy and the FAQs around the policy, that's where we're seeing a lot of advantage because now HR coordinators can now focus on more strategic things, HR business partners are not. spending time just answering, know, here's where you find it. It's a, that is to me, the single biggest help. And then the second is around reporting and analytics. Courtney Cardin (22:03) Mm-hmm. Steven Slutsky (22:04) AI is great for pulling the numbers and assembling them into something that can be consumed, but don't let that give you the answer. You can get a starting point for the answer. You still got to do it yourself. So those are the two areas that I've been focusing on, a lot of people are, and then we will continue to iterate as it gets better. Courtney Cardin (22:30) That makes sense. It's a great closing message. I want to thank you so much for joining us. It sounds like some of the interesting things that you're really working on are making sure that you're leveraging AI to make your whole sector and your company more efficient and to support the human element of the people that are working in your company, not using it as a replacement, but also... being able to use it to communicate more effectively. So both as a pull for people who are knowing that they need to seek advice around fertility benefits and maybe bereavement leave or things like that. And also to be creative about how to push those messages to people who might not even know enough to ask. So I'm so inspired by the innovative things that you're doing. Thank you so much for joining us. Before we go, I'd love for you to share just where listeners can connect with you, whether... It's on LinkedIn or where can they find you? Steven Slutsky (23:28) They can find me on LinkedIn. It's easy enough to find me. Steven Slutsky, there are only a couple of us in the country, one of whom is an incredibly smart math statistician who created Slutsky's Law. That's not me. Steven Slutsky, the only other one I are only three others I know of, two are lawyers, practicing lawyers, and one is me, who was a former practicing lawyer, and now in HR. you can absolutely... Courtney Cardin (23:55) You never had a chance. You had to be a lawyer at some point. in the name. Steven Slutsky (23:58) And if you want to put it at the very end, it's Steven Slutsky, or one word, the Steven Slutsky HR guru. Courtney Cardin (24:06) That's great. Okay, thank you so much.