Latest / Mom Wars / Grande Conversations

Transcript

Grande Conversations · Mom Wars

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: From the front lines of the mom Wars.
• 0:03
  Speaker 2: Here's Bethany Mandel and Kara Kennedy.
• 0:08
  Speaker 3: Hello and welcome to another episode of your favorite podcast.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: I am your co host, Bethany Mandel. I miss Kara Kennedy.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: I know all of you do too. She is having
• 0:20
  Speaker 3: the worst trip of her life in England right now.
• 0:22
  Speaker 3: I can't wait to have her on next week to
• 0:24
  Speaker 3: talk about it, because Wow, it's amazing. But we are
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: joined by our friend. And when I say we, it's
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: like we the show are joined by our good friend. Madeline.
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: What is your like your stage name.
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Madeline Freischultz, but you can call me Maddie.
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know like yet some people go by
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: like professional names. We were just in a Okay, you're
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: the editor of the Daily Wire upstream. But the last
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: time I saw you in person, we were in a
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: delivery room with our mutual friend.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Yes, we should talk about this. I actually this is
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: one of the most magical nights of my life.
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not gonna lie, and I've just that you were
• 1:00
  Speaker 4: invited to my birth. If I have another child, you
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: absolutely can be there. Your presence is so calming and amazing.
• 1:07
  Speaker 4: But no, it was just such a really beautiful moment
• 1:09
  Speaker 4: because she went into labor and her husband was traveling
• 1:13
  Speaker 4: and like flew back from a trip that he was on,
• 1:16
  Speaker 4: but he wasn't there. So I came, her other friend came,
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: you came, and we were all just there kind of
• 1:21
  Speaker 4: hanging out with her and chatting, and I think it
• 1:23
  Speaker 4: hopefully was really calming for her, but it was just
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: so much fun because we were like talking about kid
• 1:27
  Speaker 4: stuff and other stuff and it was just one of
• 1:29
  Speaker 4: those like.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I love women.
• 1:31
  Speaker 4: This is just like when one of those moments, probably
• 1:33
  Speaker 4: the peak moment in your life where you need a
• 1:35
  Speaker 4: female presence, when you need other women in your life.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: And it was so lovely.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was. And it was a really stressful situation
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: because like there was medical stuff going on, and I
• 1:46
  Speaker 3: was thinking to myself, was like, why don't we hang
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: out outside of emergencies, Like this is so nice.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: We should do it again, except like at a coffee shop.
• 1:55
  Speaker 3: Yeah, not in a hospital room. But I also, I mean,
• 1:58
  Speaker 3: I think birth is magical and this was this was
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: like a difficult birth and I was so like it
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: was a it was an emergency C section. It was scary,
• 2:06
  Speaker 3: like there was elements of it, but it was so beautiful.
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: It was so I took incredible creepier creepy pictures of
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: husband and wife before and after. It's like my love
• 2:18
  Speaker 3: language is taking like quiet pictures of people in vulnerable
• 2:22
  Speaker 3: moments that are really beautiful, and there was a lot
• 2:24
  Speaker 3: of that. It was so beautiful to see their interactions.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: And I've never seen a baby that tiny in my life.
• 2:30
  Speaker 4: It was yeah, same, I mean except for obviously my own,
• 2:33
  Speaker 4: in your own, but no one, no one else's baby. No,
• 2:35
  Speaker 4: that baby, that's right now, because you're right, because she
• 2:37
  Speaker 4: was a PREMI you're right, I've never I've never seen
• 2:39
  Speaker 4: a baby that small.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: I was thinking new as an age. Yeah no, yeah, no,
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: she was so little.
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: And it's such a it's such a blessing and privilege
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: to see a person come out and I've only ever
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: experienced that myself, and you're not coherent while you're doing that,
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: and so to experience that was someone else was such
• 3:01
  Speaker 3: a like. I felt so honored to be there, even
• 3:04
  Speaker 3: though I invited myself.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: You know, it was amazing.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: You texted and you were like I texted you because
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I heard that things were going on, and I was like,
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: do you want me to come, and then I just,
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: you know, brought a bag of like chapstick and hair
• 3:18
  Speaker 3: ties and yeah, and.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: That was amazing. We all brought.
• 3:21
  Speaker 4: I brought snacks because I wanted her to be able
• 3:23
  Speaker 4: to eat, which of course she couldn't do before the
• 3:25
  Speaker 4: see sections, so that was all for later. But you
• 3:27
  Speaker 4: brought the stuff that she could use right away. Chapstick
• 3:29
  Speaker 4: is huge in the hospital because it's like the air
• 3:31
  Speaker 4: is really dry and stair all so your lips get
• 3:33
  Speaker 4: really dry. And like, I don't know what else you brought,
• 3:35
  Speaker 4: like fuzzy socks, just like all these really comforting, nice
• 3:38
  Speaker 4: things that are good to have in the hospital.
• 3:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's funny. I actually a million years ago
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: I wanted to start a business called My Bliss Birth Bag,
• 3:46
  Speaker 3: to the point where like I copyrighted the name, I
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: had a graphic designer create the bags. I like scoped
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: out my my suppliers, like I took photos. I took
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: like professional pictures of the bag and the contents. Like
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: I really went at it. And then like the writing
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: thing kind of took off and I gave up on it.
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: But I pulled up from ten years ago my list
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: of like all the things that I was putting in
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: my Bliss birth bag.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: That's amazing.
• 4:15
  Speaker 4: So it's just like an uncopyrighted version, a prototype if
• 4:18
  Speaker 4: you will.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think you should return to it. This is
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: a great idea.
• 4:21
  Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, I mean like the problem is, like I
• 4:23
  Speaker 3: think actual, real companies do it. And I was just
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: like a mom who was like, there should be a
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: bag that you can just order and it just exists
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: and you can bring it. And I it's funny, when
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: I had my third child in the front seat of
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: Seth's car, it would have been viral, amazing marketing if
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: I had been thinking about it. But I brought a
• 4:43
  Speaker 3: prototype bag and at my feet you can see the
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: logo on my bag and it's like my vice first bag.
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: That could have been the first viral thing.
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: Right, I know, I just wasn't thinking because I was like,
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: you know, so traumatized by having a baby in the
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: car that I wasn't Yeah.
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: Well that's understandable.
• 5:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, going viral on Instagram wasn't your first
• 5:04
  Speaker 4: thought after you had your baby in the car.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: So it's funny because I actually panicked about going viral
• 5:11
  Speaker 3: because I had made a couple jokes on like podcasts
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: and Twitter and everything about having a baby in the
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: car because my second was born really precipitously and had
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: I not already been in the hospital when my water broke,
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: he would have been born in the car. And so
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: I kept on tweeting I'm going to have this baby
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: in the car, and I was afraid when it happened
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: that people would think I did it on purpose for attention,
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: and I like really was freaked out about it because
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: the Internet is a dark and scary and horrible place,
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: and that's one hundred percent something that would happen where
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: someone takes I can.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: Totally say that. Yeah, yeah, I go back to your
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: old tweets.
• 5:45
  Speaker 4: They're like, see, she was going to make this happen.
• 5:47
  Speaker 4: This was part of her marketing campaign. And then here
• 5:49
  Speaker 4: she has with her bliss bag. She did this just
• 5:52
  Speaker 4: to sell bags.
• 5:53
  Speaker 3: Yeah, So I was really panicked after I had him
• 5:56
  Speaker 3: in the car that people would accuse me of having
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: orchestrated it. And so yeah, I was like very I
• 6:02
  Speaker 3: was very anxious. I'm a very anxious person after child birth.
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: For like the first couple of months.
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: I was gonna say, I think that's normal. I remember
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: feeling the same way.
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: I had a lot of intrusive thoughts that I'm not
• 6:12
  Speaker 4: randomly like that, but it's always like, oh what if
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: what if I was walking and I just tripped and
• 6:16
  Speaker 4: the baby just flew up in the air, Like why
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: do I just why am I thinking about this?
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: What the heck the time? I mean, it's I think
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: it's just evolutionary, like that's how we keep our baby safe.
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: As you catastrophize and you think of terrible things and
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: then you are more careful. But it makes you into
• 6:31
  Speaker 3: a little bit of a lunatic.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's scary.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I wrote there is actually a weird segue with this.
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: I wrote a piece for you at Upstream a week
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: ago about Ariana Grande, and in that piece, I referenced
• 6:48
  Speaker 3: when I went viral after my book came out about
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: like my brain wasn't working so much. Oh wait, this
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: was a different piece. There are two different pieces.
• 6:59
  Speaker 4: Yes, this was you were writing about mom brain. Oh
• 7:01
  Speaker 4: this was about getting back into reading. Yeah, so you've
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: you've written just so many pieces for.
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: Me, now, so fine.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, you wrote a piece about getting back into reading
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: and how book talk has been really helpful and how
• 7:13
  Speaker 4: it's good to read because it helps your brain work
• 7:16
  Speaker 4: better and your memory and all that stuff. And you
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: mentioned that the one time you were on TV and someone,
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: what was it, someone asked you something and then you
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: just froze or you misremembered about your book.
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: Deer in the Headlights froze. And I was like nine
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: weeks postpartum and was the most anxious I had ever
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: been after having a baby. And I was actually having
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: an anxiety attack in the moment. And now there's just
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: a video out there of me having an anxiety attack.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: That's terrifying. The fact that you were even on TV
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: is impressive. It was not wise.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: Carol took most of so I co wrote the book
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: with my friend Carol Markowitz, and Carol took the lion's
• 7:54
  Speaker 3: share of the media for our book because I was like,
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: I hadn't barely functioning. And then so I took the
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: friendly interviews that I felt like I could just you know,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: walk through very easily. Yeah, this was not a friendly interview.
• 8:09
  Speaker 3: I listened to her before they started rolling. I listened
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: to the host talking smack about me and motherhood in general.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: What was this on?
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: This was on the Hill Rising. So this anchor, her
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: name is Brianna Joy Gray eventually got fired for rolling
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: her eyes at the sister of an Israeli hostage who
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: was afraid that her sister was being raped. Narrator the
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: sister was being raped in captivity. She thank god got
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: out and has talked about it since. But this woman
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: is a monster. And so before we started taping the segment,
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: her mic was on and she was talking to Robbie Suave,
• 8:49
  Speaker 3: who was her co host, about how she hates parents
• 8:52
  Speaker 3: because they are all narcissists and that's why they had
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: children was because they want to see little versions of
• 8:59
  Speaker 3: themselves running round. And so she hates talking to parents
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: about parenting stuff because it's just an exercise in their narcissism.
• 9:09
  Speaker 4: So just most people for thousands and thousands of years
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: are all narcissists because they have big kids.
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: But she is more, her eyes are opened, she's more elevated.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I'm sure this hasn't related to anything about
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: her own parents and her relationship with them at all.
• 9:27
  Speaker 3: Always, always, I was talking to someone about actually was
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: my friend Melissa Brownstein. She wrote a piece for National
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: Review about she talked to like ten or fifteen ex
• 9:38
  Speaker 3: neo Nazis and she asked them, and this was brilliant,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: and I don't know why more Jewish organizations don't do
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: what she did in this piece. But she asked, like,
• 9:47
  Speaker 3: you were a neo Nazi and you're not anymore. Why
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: did you change? How did you change? And I was
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: talking to her piece. I was talking to her about
• 9:54
  Speaker 3: her piece today, and she said, universally, these people had
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: really messed up things in their life, and their hatred
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: of Jews was just a manifestation of their own sense
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: of like inadequacy, and so it was just the Jew's
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: fault that they were inadequate. It wasn't a reflection on them,
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: and it's it. I sometimes draw like Twitter trolls into
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: conversation for fun when I'm feeling bored.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: And that one does. Yeah.
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: And I had a conversation with a guy I will
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: never forget it. He was sending me like really disturbing,
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: misogynist things and I could tell he wasn't a bot,
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: like he was a real person who just would DM
• 10:37
  Speaker 3: me really misogynist, like scary things sometimes. And once he
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: sent something to me and I replied with a piece
• 10:45
  Speaker 3: of artwork that my kid did, I said, isn't this great?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: What do you think this is because I really can't tell,
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: and just trying to be funny and diffuse it and
• 10:53
  Speaker 3: not treat him with the seriousness that he demanded, and
• 10:57
  Speaker 3: it like completely broke the ice. And he started responding
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: to me like, I can tell you really care about
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: your children, and I was like, really, yes, I do
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: care about my children, because he had always accused me
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: of not and this was like part of his.
• 11:13
  Speaker 4: So you just pivoted and then he went with it. Yeah,
• 11:16
  Speaker 4: he was like, yeah, that drawing is really pretty.
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: That's cool.
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And so we started talking and over the course
• 11:22
  Speaker 3: of like months in DM, it comes out that he
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: was a gay romance writer and this was a burner
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: account that he had and he was very cruelly rejected
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: by his parents when he came out as gay, and
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: so he was coming at me as like, my conservative
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: mom rejected me, and I hate you. I hate everything
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: you stand for, you hate your children. You are evil.
• 11:50
  Speaker 3: And I can see, like I can see those wheels
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: turning in like how I too would think if that
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: were my experience, and who knows what actually happened, but
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: like this, you know, it's his lived reality. Mm hm,
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: I can see how you could go from like I'm
• 12:07
  Speaker 3: defending these poor children.
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: Wild. Yeah. I think that perspective is so helpful too, because,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: especially someone who has some sort of public presence, you
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: get a lot of these comments on Twitter, or you
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: get emails and dms from people comments on your articles,
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: and they can be really nasty. But if you think about,
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: I wonder where this person is coming from, and it's
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: probably not a good place, and they probably have some
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: sort of either trauma or just discomfort related to the
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: situation or related to what you're saying, and that's where
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: their comment is coming from, and so it's not really
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: directed at you. They're just deflecting something else.
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: Cat Timp posted something that like a really unhinged thing
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: that someone said to her. Cat has had like a
• 12:50
  Speaker 3: year from actual hell. She was diagnosed with breast cancer,
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: and then she had a baby, and then her beloved cat,
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: who was her companion for sixteen years, died, and then
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: six days later her dad dropped dead. Oh and her
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: mom is already dead. This was her year. M So
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: somebody sent her a really disturbing comment and I googled
• 13:12
  Speaker 3: the woman because she was commenting under her real name,
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: and it completely adds to this whole psycho like theory
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: that I have, and it's like psychoanalysis theory. The woman
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: there was a news article about her because she was
• 13:27
  Speaker 3: suing a doctor who did corrective eye surgery on her.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: What is it called lask Yeah, the doctor, according to
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: her whatever, her lawsuit messed up and she couldn't blink anymore,
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: and so she had to she couldn't sleep, and she
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: was putting eye drops in her eyes every fifteen minutes.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: And this I would probably go crazy too.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this news article was written like ten years ago.
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I'm like, so this basically this woman has not slept
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: in literally ten years.
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: I mean I would kill myself, I think.
• 14:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And so that doesn't excuse it, but it just
• 14:08
  Speaker 4: makes you think this person's going through a lot.
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna let them. I'm gonna let them have their
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: nasty comments. If that makes you feel better.
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: Go right.
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: This week, on Conservative Crossroads, should conservatives support tax increases
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: or in Casts says yes.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: There is no political path to achieving spending cuts without
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: any tax increase.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Groover Norquist says.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: No, we're winning and we're not going to raise taxes
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: because that would stop us from being in a position to.
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: Do anything conservatives backing tax increases coming up on conservative crossroads.
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: Ricochet, Yeah, join the conversation.
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: So, speaking of nasty comments on the internet, I have
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: struggled with And this is why my immediate thought was
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: Ariana Grande when I was thinking about what I had
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: written for you recently, because I also I wrote about
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: Ariana Grande for you about the fact that I wanted
• 15:20
  Speaker 3: to stop taking like glps because I don't like there
• 15:24
  Speaker 3: is a point where you stop and I don't want
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: to look like that. And you wrote about Ariana Grande too,
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: because the pictures that we're seeing from her tour are
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: so disturbing. Are you Are you a fan of Ariana
• 15:38
  Speaker 3: Grande like I never have been. Are you a fan
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: of her music?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like a casual fan.
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: She is sort of of my era of the singers
• 15:47
  Speaker 4: who were popular when I was growing up. I think
• 15:49
  Speaker 4: of her kind of alongside Demi Levado and Miley Cyrus.
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: She's just a few I think, maybe three years older
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: than I am. So I definitely listened to her music
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: in high school and at party and so I'm definitely
• 16:01
  Speaker 4: a casual listener. But I've been really disturbed to watch her.
• 16:05
  Speaker 4: I don't want to say weight loss journey because that
• 16:07
  Speaker 4: makes it sound like she's like going from being unhealthy
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: to being skinny. She's literally always been skinny the whole
• 16:12
  Speaker 4: time she's been in the public eye.
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: She started with this Nickelodeon show, Victorious.
• 16:16
  Speaker 4: This was fifteen years ago, I think when it came out,
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: so she was kind of a child star and then
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: was always in the spotlight. And I think it's definitely
• 16:25
  Speaker 4: gotten to her. And there are a lot of ways
• 16:27
  Speaker 4: in which this is totally fair, and we know how
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: the media treated women, especially in her late nineties or early
• 16:32
  Speaker 4: two thousands. We had Jessica Simpson who was Kirby and
• 16:36
  Speaker 4: people saying like, she is disgustingly grotesquely fat. She needs
• 16:40
  Speaker 4: to She was probably like a size eight and everyone's like,
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: she's gotta just lose so much weight.
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: This is insane. So we kind of went out of
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: that phase.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: Then we went to the body positivity of movement, where
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: we had Cosmopolitan running a front page magazine article that
• 16:56
  Speaker 4: has a morbidly obese woman and says this is healthy.
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: And no one is.
• 17:00
  Speaker 4: Allowed to criticize anybody's weight, because if you say that's
• 17:03
  Speaker 4: not healthy, that means that you're fat shaming or body shaming.
• 17:07
  Speaker 4: And now we're just in this weird limbic space where
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: everybody's on ozempic, everybody wants to lose weight, even people
• 17:15
  Speaker 4: who don't need to lose weight or have good reasons
• 17:18
  Speaker 4: for it. You see these sort of already skinny stars
• 17:22
  Speaker 4: like Ariana Grande becoming even skinnier to the extent where
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: if you look at photos of her now and she's
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: on tour, she must be exhausting herself. If you can
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: see her back, you can see all of her backbones.
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: You're at her front, you can see her entire ribcage.
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: She is just absolutely Her cheeks are shallow, her eyes
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: are sunken. She looks like a skeleton. And so this
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: is the thing this is driving the discourse. Is about
• 17:44
  Speaker 4: the discourse. Can we talk about Ariana Grande? Are we
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: allowed to criticize her body? Is this mean? Is this
• 17:49
  Speaker 4: body shaming? Or are we protecting people from looking up
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: to her? Because people are saying that images of her
• 17:56
  Speaker 4: right now are in these pro anorexia spaces online, and
• 18:00
  Speaker 4: there are girls who have eating disorders who are looking
• 18:03
  Speaker 4: at her right now and saying she looks beautiful. This
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: is what I want to look like and using her
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: as a model for what they're interested in. So I
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: think I've come down very strongly. That I think is
• 18:14
  Speaker 4: this is an instance where it is okay to talk
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: about how she looks and the impact that she's having. Obviously,
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: we are a society that loves to come in on
• 18:23
  Speaker 4: women's bodies, whether they're too big or too small.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: We love to make our own judgments, and Ariana is trying.
• 18:29
  Speaker 4: To create kind of place herself in this discourse and
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: criticize the feedback that she's hearing from people. So the
• 18:37
  Speaker 4: reason this all kind of came to a head and
• 18:38
  Speaker 4: we're talking about it right now, she is on her
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: album tour. She just released this new song called Pedal
• 18:44
  Speaker 4: or Pedals, and basically the music video for it, it
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: shows her going into this casting call with all of
• 18:50
  Speaker 4: these old men who are directors, and she comes in
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: and she does her thing, and then they write down
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: in a note she needs to lose a few pounds,
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: and then she leaves and she comes back and she
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: I know, I know why, why why this is such
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: an exactly like she's actually speaking up into this controversy
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: that's happening.
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: She's not. She's not just ignoring it. She is kind
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: of saying as all, almost as if she's blaming society
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: for criticizing her into becoming so skinny. So the music
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: video goes on. She comes back, she looks like Sandy
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: from Grease, she's dancing. They say, not enough sex appeal.
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: I think this time they're like all of these kind
• 19:29
  Speaker 4: of convoluted, and this is supposed to be a commentary
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: on like as a woman in the spotlight, you're either
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: too sexy, you're not sexy enough, or whatever the case
• 19:36
  Speaker 4: may be. Third time she comes in, she's got like
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: a fake boob job, and then they say, now she's
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: trying too hard. Basically you can't win.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: So then she gets so frustrated she gets a chainsaw
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: and then she cuts off the heads of all the
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: studio executives who are lined up at the table judging.
• 19:52
  Speaker 4: Her, and that's the end of the music video. So
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: basically what she's saying, yeah, yeah, I think therapy rather
• 20:03
  Speaker 4: than a music video as an outlet. But basically what
• 20:05
  Speaker 4: she's saying is people who criticize me and my body
• 20:09
  Speaker 4: need to shut the hell up or I'm going to
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: chop your heads off, like this is obviously it's like
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: it's a joke, it's artistic, but she's explicitly addressing the discourse, saying,
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: people are.
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: Commenting on my body.
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: Allegedly people have told her to get skinnier, I guess,
• 20:26
  Speaker 4: and now she's set up with it and she wants
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: everyone to shut up.
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: But we're you know, I don't. I don't think we
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: should because again, there are people who are looking at
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: her thinking, wow, she looks really great, but she actually
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: looks like she is like moments from a heart attack.
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah. No, And that's exactly when you were saying, like
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: she's working really hard on tour, I was saying, she's
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: gonna have a heart attack, Like that's it's such a
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: stress on your heart. I struggle with this stuff, and
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: it was it's funny because you know, I did zep bound,
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: I did a golp one and explaining to my kids
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: why mommy is injecting herself, Like my mom was amazing
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: at having these like weight conversations with me. I never
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: ever I think I'm like the only woman of my
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: generation besides like some of my very close friends who
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: didn't also have like an eating disorder or weight issues.
• 21:16
  Speaker 3: My mom was so so, so careful because her mom
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: gave all of her children eating disorders. My mom was
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: like the best off of the four of them. But
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: my grandmother was so good at talking about weight in
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: an unhealthy way that she even gave my uncle an
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: eating disorder.
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: Like, oh my gosh.
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: She had three daughters and a son, and all four
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: of them had eating disorders. And I was talking to
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: I've recently decided that I'm just I don't care about
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: talking about my family. I'm like, you know what, I'm just,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: I don't care anymore. So I was recently talking to
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: my kids about about like stomach acid. Like one of
• 21:56
  Speaker 3: my one of my sons, the younger son of my
• 21:59
  Speaker 3: older like I have four boys, and so my second son,
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: he's nine, is like super interested in science, and so
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: we were talking about stomach acid, and like we were
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: sitting on my front lawn on Shabbat last week with
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: a bodybook of like an encyclopedia, and we were talking
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: about every single thing you could possibly imagine. So we
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: were talking about stomach acid and I was saying to him,
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: it's so strong that if you throw up a lot,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: it can wear down the lining of your esophagus to
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: the point where, like your esophagus can collapse. And I
• 22:32
  Speaker 3: know that because my mom's sister was bollimic and threw
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: up so much that the lining of her esophagus thinned
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: to the point where as an adult, if she got
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: a food, you know, a bug of food poisoning whatever,
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: and was violently throwing up a few times, it could
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: have collapsed her esophagus. Like, she did so much damage.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: And so how having that conversation with my son about
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: this damage that my aunt has because of it, and
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: he was like, why was she throwing up so much?
• 23:06
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, that's a Pandora's bucks I don't
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: know how to open. And my daughter wasn't there, she
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: was already at camp. But having these like I'm very
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: I'm very careful about having these weight conversations around my daughter, especially,
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: but also you know, you can give way issues to
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: a boy too, as I know. But I think about
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: this ariana grande stuff, and I think about it as
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: a mom of an almost teenage daughter. My daughter is
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: turning thirteen in like two months, and like, what how
• 23:37
  Speaker 3: do we how do we met? Like I don't, I
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: don't know yet, She's not into she doesn't know who
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: Ariana Grande is, so it's not you know, keeping her
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: a little bit in a bubble is helpful on that front,
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: But what do you say, Like, I don't know, I
• 23:54
  Speaker 3: don't know how to talk about this stuff. I wish
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: this is the stuff I wish my mom was around for,
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: because my mom did.
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: It so well.
• 24:00
  Speaker 3: But I mean when I was a kid, there was
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: like Courtney Love running around, and you know there were
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: stars who were also terrifyingly her heroin chic. And it's
• 24:11
  Speaker 3: so difficult to message like healthy relationship with your weight.
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: And I try, like personally, like when I talked about
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: my weight loss decision, it was it was and it
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: was true. It was based in health. Like I like that,
• 24:27
  Speaker 3: I look harder, but I didn't want diabetes. I want
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: to be around for you guys. I don't want to
• 24:32
  Speaker 3: get heart disease. I don't want to get diabetes all
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: of those things. But you know, those conversations about eating
• 24:38
  Speaker 3: disorders are coming up more and more, and I just
• 24:40
  Speaker 3: like don't know how to do with them.
• 24:41
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's hard when you're talking to your kids about it,
• 24:44
  Speaker 4: especially and at at different ages, because you do want
• 24:46
  Speaker 4: to focus on the health aspect, but also there's nothing
• 24:48
  Speaker 4: wrong with wanting to look good, but there's a level
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: at which that is subjective if you want to be
• 24:54
  Speaker 4: slightly skinnier versus slightly heavier, like there's some there's some
• 24:58
  Speaker 4: leeway there that I think is just kind of personal preference.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: With Ariana Grande, obviously we've pushed way past that point
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: that she actually just needs to eat more food. But
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: with my kids, my oldest is four, so he's in
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: a phase very similar, very interested in like bodies and
• 25:13
  Speaker 4: how things work. And I actually am kind of dealing
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: with this a little bit because my husband's been going
• 25:19
  Speaker 4: to the gym a lot. I've been trying to get
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: back into a routine of going to the gym. So
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: we talk about working out and being strong, and I
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: don't want him to feel like we are we have
• 25:28
  Speaker 4: to work out or we you know, are doing it
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: because we need to look a certain way. I want
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: him to feel like we the food that we eat
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: is so that we can be healthy, and the workouts
• 25:37
  Speaker 4: that we do or so that we can be strong
• 25:38
  Speaker 4: so that we can live our lives well. And also
• 25:41
  Speaker 4: talking about when we eat dessert, because he's like, why can't.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: I have five cookies?
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: And it's like, okay, well, cookies are the thing that
• 25:47
  Speaker 4: we eat because they're fun, but we don't want to
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: have too many of them. And I'm not telling him.
• 25:52
  Speaker 4: It's like because I don't want you to get fat,
• 25:53
  Speaker 4: which honestly, it would be great if he would eat
• 25:55
  Speaker 4: five cookies because he's a very skinny little boy. That's
• 25:58
  Speaker 4: an all separate issue. But we don't want to have
• 26:01
  Speaker 4: too much sugar. And then we talk about, okay, what
• 26:03
  Speaker 4: is what is in sugar? It gives you energy, but
• 26:05
  Speaker 4: then it'll make you crash. And now he's like gotten
• 26:08
  Speaker 4: really into macros. So he started eating peas and he
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: was like, so, what are what's in here? And I'm
• 26:12
  Speaker 4: like googling it. I'm like, well, there's fiber. Actually there's protein.
• 26:14
  Speaker 4: And he's like, oh yeah, there's protein. Like he's such
• 26:17
  Speaker 4: a jim Bro.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: So I think it's hopefully we're doing a good job.
• 26:22
  Speaker 4: Starting early on just talking about food as something that
• 26:26
  Speaker 4: you enjoy, eating food as a tool that can give
• 26:29
  Speaker 4: you different energy, different vitamins and nutrients.
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: We're learning a lot.
• 26:32
  Speaker 4: I'm constantly googling stuff trying to figure out what's inside
• 26:35
  Speaker 4: foods and what they do and relearning how the human
• 26:38
  Speaker 4: body works, talking about stuff like stomach acid. But I
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: think it's harder as you get older, because they do
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: become more aware of how they look and how they're perceived,
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: and they're focusing on that then and how you know,
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: what weight are they going to be? And it is true,
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: and I want to I don't really want to give
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: Ariana Grande much credit because again, I think that she
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: needs a lot of help, and I I think she's
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: setting a really bad example for a lot of people.
• 27:03
  Speaker 4: But again, it's like, you know, people who are close
• 27:05
  Speaker 4: to her, people on her team, need to step in
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: and help her. She's clearly having the mental health issues
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: as well. But there is a truth to when people
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: when you're a famous woman, people are going to comment
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: on your weight. That is just true. But I think
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: this is the instance where there is an exception. There's
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: so much hand ringing right now in the media. I
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: don't know if you've seen a maybe the articles, but
• 27:29
  Speaker 4: the people are writing about it. In the New York Times,
• 27:31
  Speaker 4: Washington Posts. There was this CNN article. The headline was
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: just something like, people are talking about Ariana Grande's body again,
• 27:39
  Speaker 4: like no one wants to weigh in on either either.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: White people are really afraid because it feels like it
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: would be anti feminist to say something about how a
• 27:47
  Speaker 4: woman is living her life. But at the same time,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: this could be so dangerous for a lot of people,
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: and it's something that's clearly unhealthy. But it's kind of
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: just like the flip side of when we couldn't say, oh,
• 28:00
  Speaker 4: someone who's super overweight is clearly unhealthy, it would be
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: good for them to lose a few pounds. Now we
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: can't say you need to gain some weight, you need
• 28:07
  Speaker 4: to be eating more. Hi.
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: I'm Ben Sas and I'm Chris Steierwaldt. And this is
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: not dead yet. We're all dying, but some of us
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: have been brought face to face.
• 28:25
  Speaker 2: With that reality.
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: However long each of us have to do it though.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: We all want to live a good life, one with meaning,
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: love and joy, and our guests are here to help
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: us do exactly that.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Now available for download and streaming at ricochet dot com.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: Ricochet Yeah, join the conversation.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: I mean, it is so anti woman to not set
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: some like guardrails of this is this is safe, and
• 29:01
  Speaker 3: this is healthy. It's something that frustrates me a lot
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: about like the modern day feminist movement because so much
• 29:07
  Speaker 3: of what they do it hurts women. And so I'm
• 29:10
  Speaker 3: thinking about like all the trans stuff and like declaring
• 29:14
  Speaker 3: that you're a woman if no matter what your biology
• 29:18
  Speaker 3: or genetics say, it's just it's your feelings. Your feelings
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: make you a woman, and it's very feelings based. Also
• 29:24
  Speaker 3: here of like I feel like it's not nice. And
• 29:27
  Speaker 3: this is something that really bothers me about our gender
• 29:30
  Speaker 3: is that there's too much operation on feelings and vibes
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: and not enough about just like facts don't care about
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: your feelings. To quote Taylee wire Benchhapiro, like, facts don't
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: care about your feelings. She's going to have a heart
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: attack and die. And I think it's pro woman to
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: say that's bad.
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I totally agree, just say it. Yeah, I think.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: I think our feelings are our feelings, and our empathy
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: are our strength and our weakness. They help us be
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: attuned to people who are vulnerable, but they also sometimes
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: make us not want to say things that need to
• 30:04
  Speaker 4: be said because it could be perceived as mean. But
• 30:06
  Speaker 4: the thing that is craziest to me about this that
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: we're all everyone's kind of like, I don't know, like
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: can we talk about her body? And instead, to be safe,
• 30:14
  Speaker 4: we're going to make the discourse about people talking about
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: her body and just kind of do a meta.
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: Analysis and take a step back. There was I think
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: five years ago, maybe whenever Anti Hero came out Taylor
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: Swift's song in her music video, she was kind of
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: and she's like the queen of commenting on how she's
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: commenting on. She's always kind of criticizing the media and
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: the discourse surrounding her. And in this music video, she
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: has herself and then like this other version of herself
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: kind of like looking down at her and judging her,
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: and she in one scene is standing on a scale
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: and she looks down at the scale and it says fat,
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: and that caused such a firestorm that she took that
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: scene out of the music video. There was all of
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: this discourse saying I can't believe that Taylor Swift is
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: calling herself fat, or that Taylor Swift would make people
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: think that someone as skinny as her would be fat,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: which was obviously not the point. She has talked about
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: her own self image and body image issues before. She's
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: not saying that she is fat. She's saying that she
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: feels fat or feels is maybe told that she's fat,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: and yet people were so upset about this and saying
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: this is dangerous, this is fat bobic, this is insulting.
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: She doesn't know what it is like to live in
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: a fat body. These are things that people said to her.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: So she took it out. She removed it from her
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: music video because that was that's a day an appropriate
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: thing for her to do.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I feel sympathetic, Like when you're in the public eye
• 31:38
  Speaker 3: and you're in front of the camera, it's true, the
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: camera adds ten to fifteen pounds. It's really hard to
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: look at yourself and not pick apart. I was on
• 31:48
  Speaker 3: camera today. I was like on a stage in front
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: of a literally one thousand people, and I was sitting
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: in a way that like I was trying to have
• 31:57
  Speaker 3: better posture, but my dress kind of fell. I looked
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: kind of pregnant. And I always kind of look pregnant
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: because I have a pouch of skin left over, but
• 32:09
  Speaker 3: the way that it like pinched right above, like right
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: above where my stomach, it just it made like a
• 32:15
  Speaker 3: little and I was really like staring at the picture,
• 32:19
  Speaker 3: picking myself apart, thinking like God, I wish I had
• 32:21
  Speaker 3: like warn a different dress and da dah. But like
• 32:24
  Speaker 3: what I have liked how I looked, no matter what,
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: probably not so like I super sympathized with this experience
• 32:32
  Speaker 3: of like your pictures everywhere, it's taken from a millillion
• 32:35
  Speaker 3: angles and you're singing, and like, that must be so hard.
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: And I completely understand how you could have body dysmorphia
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: watching yourself that much. But I resented as a mom
• 32:47
  Speaker 3: of a girl that like, you gotta take care of
• 32:52
  Speaker 3: yourself please, like you're making my life so much harder.
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: And I wish that she had people around her who
• 33:00
  Speaker 3: just sincerely were like, you're beautiful, You're perfect. Let's go
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: have a.
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: Burger, yes, exactly three burgers and friends.
• 33:12
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, because you know there was Have you heard
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: of this porn star? What is her name?
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I don't even know Bonnie Blue? No, she she had
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: I made that. I just gave you a name that
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: I no.
• 33:25
  Speaker 3: I mean, she's famous, though. There's another one that she
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: like she slept with like a thousand guys in one day.
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: Oh it's the other one. There's like two of them
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: that are really a.
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: Blonde girl she's English and if I google her then
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: my algorithm is going to be creepy and weird. But yeah,
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: so she she slept with a thousand guys in one day,
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: and there was a documentary made about her, and it
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: was the saddest thing I've ever watched in my life,
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: kind of hearkening back to the beginning of our conversation,
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: because this girl was so troubled and I went into
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: it being like slut like, slut shaming is good. Let's
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: slut shame. I like slipheaming, It's good. And then I
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: watched this and I was in tears because she's being
• 34:08
  Speaker 3: managed by her mom as a porn star. Her dad
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: is in the picture. She starts crying at one point because.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: Is it Lily Phillips? Yes? Is that name's un right? Okay? Yes,
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: because I yes, I remember this. I saw. I saw
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: the video footage where she like did some stunt where
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: in a day she was going to sleep with the
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: hundred guys or something, and she was crying afterwards, and
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: she was it was like her body was recognizing what
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: her brain wouldn't let her recognize, because she was like,
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: I feel fine and I wanted to do this and
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: I did it and it's all good, but like, why
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: am I crying? And I just like feel really terrible
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: right now?
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: And she she dissociated and talked about how she dissociated
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: and how she didn't even remember lots of it because
• 34:47
  Speaker 3: her psyche was protecting her from the trauma and she
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: had not only that she had put herself through, but
• 34:54
  Speaker 3: that her team had put herself put her through because
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: there was a whole bunch of people around her that
• 35:01
  Speaker 3: saw a money opportunity, that saw this gimmick and saw
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: and they put her through it. And one of them
• 35:05
  Speaker 3: was her own mother. And I think her father too,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: but definitely her mother is involved as a manager.
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: I think you're right. I think both of her parents are.
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: At least she said they're supportive, which is just the
• 35:14
  Speaker 4: mom is. Obviously it's not child abuse because she's an adult.
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: But it's what I mean, it's it's horrifying. It's horrifying,
• 35:22
  Speaker 4: and it's disgusting. Can you imagine being supportive of your
• 35:26
  Speaker 4: your kids?
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: But can you imagine what that childhood must have been?
• 35:28
  Speaker 3: You don't magically turn that messed up when your kid
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: turns eighteen.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there must have been something because I think
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: I think her story is odd because she had this
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: kind of like seemingly clean, middle class childhood.
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: There was nothing where you think, oh, now I'm going
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: to be an only fans star and sleep with a
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: thousand people.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: And you know, however much time.
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: That's a girl who was trafficked and abused by her
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: parents before she turned eighteen, doesn't doesn't switch that way overnight.
• 35:57
  Speaker 3: But I think about like the Mari Granvi's of the world.
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: I mean, we live in Washington. The number of people
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: in this town who have jobs in the halls of
• 36:07
  Speaker 3: Congress who should not have jobs, and they're all all
• 36:11
  Speaker 3: their staff. Now what was her name that just died?
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: Kay Granger, Right, she ended up in a nursing home
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: and her staff like never said a word. She's still
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: a member of Congress. Like it's crazy. It's crazy people
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: around you. They have no sense of morals and they
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: just let it go on.
• 36:36
  Speaker 4: Very fair, especially in Hollywood when people feel like they
• 36:39
  Speaker 4: can make money, and they can make money from Mario
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: Grande's tour, they can make money from people talking about
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: her weight from this music video, which probably got way
• 36:47
  Speaker 4: more views, Like you know, I'm again a casual Ariana
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: Grande Fan. I wouldn't have watched it if it hadn't
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: been so provocative and something that people were talking about.
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: And I'm sure there are people in her life who
• 36:58
  Speaker 4: were thinking, yeah, she has anorexia and she's dangerously underweight.
• 37:03
  Speaker 4: But it's driving listeners yep, and it's driving interest, and
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: so we don't want it to stop.
• 37:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's so many of these stories where like
• 37:13
  Speaker 3: a celebrity dies and you're like, how did you get
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: the drugs? Where did Matthew Perry get all the ketamine?
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: And it's just like they're surrounded by people who are
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: not nice. So maybe that's the if I'm like thinking
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: out loud and like using this as a therapy session,
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: maybe that's like part of the messaging to my child
• 37:33
  Speaker 3: about this stuff is like surround yourself with good people.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: I think that really can't be overstated, whether we're talking
• 37:41
  Speaker 4: about this or whether we're talking about social media. If
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: you want to have a kid who's not super online,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: they need to have friends who aren't super online, because
• 37:48
  Speaker 4: you want to be doing what your friends are doing
• 37:51
  Speaker 4: and you want to kind of mimic their habits and
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: their interests. You need to find other people who are
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: normal about weight and health and who are normal about uh,
• 38:00
  Speaker 4: you know, social media and not being online all the time.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's something. So my daughter is at sleep
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: away camp now and like some of her friends' moms
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: listened to the show. And one of the things we
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: all love when we talk about our girls is like
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: every single girl comes home and like reports back like
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: it's a very healthy preteen situation in that bunk. There's
• 38:24
  Speaker 3: not really conversations about weight, because I've asked her like
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: very point blank, like you know, has was there a
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: conversation about that when like something came up about like
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: they're starving apparently because because the food isn't good sometimes.
• 38:39
  Speaker 3: And so this is a I had to send my
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: I sent my son today actually with refills of Ramen
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: noodles because she's run through what I thought was a
• 38:51
  Speaker 3: month's supply of Ramen noodles in two weeks. So she
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: needed a refill on the ramen right of course. And
• 38:58
  Speaker 3: so this is this was has happened in previous years,
• 39:01
  Speaker 3: And so I talked about, like, you know, has a
• 39:04
  Speaker 3: girl said like, oh, I don't mind not eating because
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: of X y Z, And She's like, no, we're all
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: freaking hungry, and I'm like, great that everyone is like,
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: because I sometimes make the joke, not in front of
• 39:16
  Speaker 3: my children, but sometimes when I have like a stomach
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: virus or something, I'll say to Seth, I'm like, oh, Lisa,
• 39:20
  Speaker 3: I lost a few pounds.
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: So the lettuce virus that's going around.
• 39:26
  Speaker 4: I think someone was saying, like, you can lose ten
• 39:28
  Speaker 4: pounds on it, and I was like, oh, guess I'll
• 39:30
  Speaker 4: need some salads.
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: Wouldn't be the worst thing, Which is funny to joke
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: about with.
• 39:34
  Speaker 4: Your friends when you know that it's not something that
• 39:37
  Speaker 4: you're like, you know, but that you do have to
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: be careful around your kids, especially you know only I
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: have sons. But again, like you said that this can happen,
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: boys can have body dysmorphia, and it's probably even more
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: concerning for them because they this isn't something that people
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: talk about when you boys have body image issues.
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: It's not really something we discuss.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think my dad did. My dad was
• 39:56
  Speaker 3: a bodybuilder. There's a lot of dysmorphia that in that.
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, I don't know. I never really I didn't get
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: to I didn't know my dad very well.
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: So I don't.
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: I'm not going to psychoanalyze my father if we've already
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: psychoanalyzed Ariana Grande today.
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, anyone else? Who else can we talk about?
• 40:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think that's it for today. I think
• 40:19
  Speaker 3: I think that's it. I I welcome our listener's advice
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: on how to talk about Ariana Grande and this this
• 40:28
  Speaker 3: because it's it's going to keep on popping up.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm.
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: Yeah. I mean we're going to see more and more
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: stars doing similar stuff.
• 40:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: I think it's probably because of her and yeah, yeah.
• 40:40
  Speaker 3: Very creepy. Thank you for popping in. Let's do this
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: much more often.
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Thank you for having me.
• 40:46
  Speaker 3: Can you tell Kara to come back please? I miss her?
• 40:48
  Speaker 1: Yes, I will.
• 40:49
  Speaker 4: I've been getting interminen updates about her trip from Hell,
• 40:52
  Speaker 4: so I'm oh my god, I'm very well.
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: Be tuning in week to hear.
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, everyone tune in next week to hear about this
• 40:58
  Speaker 3: horrifying trip. I've never or experience or anything like this,
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: and she had it on both directions.
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: So.
• 41:04
  Speaker 3: It's going to be an interesting story next week. Well,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: thanks for joining. I'm going to have you back because
• 41:10
  Speaker 3: of course, and I loved it.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having me.
• 41:13
  Speaker 3: It's until next time. Everybody hit subscribe, leave us a review,
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: and saddle up.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: Ricochet. Join the conversation.