Latest / Little House of Mahj / Little House of Mahj - Episode 3 - When to stop The Charleston, and ways to handle the discard pile

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Little House of Mahj - Episode 3 - When to stop The Charleston, and ways to handle the discard pile · Little House of Mahj

• 0:00
  On today's episode we are asking the age-old question to stop or
• 0:04
  not to stop the Charleston after the first round.
• 0:07
  I'm going to be honest, emotions are high today as we discussed
• 0:11
  during our Point Counterpoint segment.
• 0:13
  Also, we talk about the different ways people handle the
• 0:16
  discard pile. Are you team order or team
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  chaos? Buckle up and enjoy the episode.
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  We're four sisters. We're the new game.
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  We all love it. We hope.
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  You feel the. Same way.
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  So come on in and listen to our podcast because everyone is
• 0:35
  welcome in the little House of Maj.
• 0:38
  Hello everybody, Welcome to the Little House of Maj. podcast.
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  I'm Lisa. I'm Teresa.
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  I'm Amy. I'm Tina and.
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  We are here from the Little House, so we are going to
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  introduce a new segment called Point Counterpoint.
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  This is going to be lively, ladies.
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  We've got some topics, some would say controversial.
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  We'll see how it goes. We're going to jump right into
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  it, Tina, OK? OK, so for our very first point
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  counterpoint, and this is a topic near and dear to my heart
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  because it drives me insane, we're going to talk about the
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  Charleston specifically the second round.
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  To stop or not to stop? And and we've had some lively
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  conversations while playing. Oh my gosh.
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  OK, so as we all know, the Charleston is the part of the
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  game where we try to build our hand by getting rid of tiles we
• 1:32
  don't want and collecting tiles that will hopefully get us to
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  that coveted mahjong, right? So there's two rounds of the
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  Charleston, right over left and then left over, right.
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  So after that first left, all it takes is one person to say I'm
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  done with the Charleston. And I just wanted to kind of
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  touch on what I think is good strategy about when to stop the
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  Charleston or when to keep going.
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  Personally, I think it should be a rare occasion to stop the
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  Charleston. I think unless you are three or
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  four tiles away from actual mahjong, you should keep the
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  Charleston going because stopping that Charleston you're
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  losing the opportunity to see potentially 12 more tiles.
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  You need 14 tiles for mahjong. If you're sitting on a hand
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  where you still need 7 or 8 tiles to get mahjong, it's
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  nonsense and terrible strategy to stop the Charleston.
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  And seasoned players are going to be furious if you
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  consistently stop that Charleston because you're it
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  just. It makes me insane and I it's a
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  very and this is going to sound judgy, I know it is.
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  So I'm prepared for the hate. It's a very newbie move to stop
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  the Charleston. Previously, that is very judgy.
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  This is where I know we need to talk about this.
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  Because I if OK again, this is my my thoughts if you're
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  stopping it because you are in between 2 completely different
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  hands. Completely different hands and
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  you just want to keep them to keep your options open.
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  It's a whore. I'm just saying you can do it.
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  Obviously anyone can stop for any reason.
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  It's totally your prerogative. It's just terrible, terrible
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  strategy to be holding on to 2 completely different options.
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  I like to. Keep my options open
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  counterpoint. People are going to be salty
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  with. You, I'm not so much already.
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  I'm not too worried about it, how much other people, what
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  they're going to think. I'm worried about my hand, to be
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  completely honest. I'm being selfish about when I'd
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  want to exactly. However, here's my thing about
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  the Charleston, and I fully understand the strategy point of
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  if you have three or more that do not match what line you're
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  going for, yes, you still have the option to get more to do a
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  second Charleston. Here's my issue.
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  If I really have three that I want to, you know, use in the
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  Charleston, if I pick up one, if I'm doing the second Charleston
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  and I get a tile that I want, I only then have two tiles that I
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  want to get rid of. But now I've committed.
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  No, you're right. That I have to do 3 and I think
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  no. But then just do 4 like if you
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  have 4 tiles you. Can I'm just saying my counter
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  to that is sometimes I don't want to take the risk even if I
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  have. Well, that's different than
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  having 7 tiles. Because you're that's like a lot
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  of two different. I don't want to do the second
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  Charleston. Teresa, what's?
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  Well, I let's keep my. Options open, which admittedly
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  is a weakness in my playing style.
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  I have a hard time committing to a hand.
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  I'm getting better, you guys have to admit.
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  Yes, I'm getting a little bit better.
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  Doing 1 Charleston as well. It's not like you don't.
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  I'm not saying there's never. I'm not saying I'm stopping it
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  is always wrong. I'm saying always stopping it.
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  I don't always stop it. I mostly stop it, OK, But that's
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  usually because you're right, I have two different hands and I
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  can't decide. So I sort of maybe have one or
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  two that I'm willing to get rid of.
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  So I'm learning, I'm evolving. I'm sure if there's people out
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  there who can relate to me, but I agree I do need to make a
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  decision a little. Faster.
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  Amy, what do you Amy, what do you think about this?
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  I think that particularly with the National Mahjong League
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  card, not other cards, whether we like it or not, a lot of wins
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  and Dragons end up being categorized as junk tiles and
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  it's a game of pass the trash. Yes.
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  That's a good point. And I am impatient.
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  And when I see that occurring, right, I'm like, well, this is
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  I'm gonna, we're wasting our time because everybody's just
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  passing their trash with these winds and Dragons and let's move
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  on. Yeah.
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  Yeah, but. When you stop because of that
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  reason, the same old stuff, blah, blah, blah, I don't think
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  it's a strong case because even one helpful tile in that second
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  round is going to be helpful. And if you and because you're
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  going to end up, I mean it's going to end at some point
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  anyway. So you might as well get the
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  opportunity to see as many tiles.
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  As you can, yeah. But I agree with Amy, and again,
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  maybe this this is the way I think about it and I think a lot
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  of people think about it, even though technically it's not
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  right, is you want to get through to start the game.
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  Like the Charleston is a precursor to the game, when in
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  actuality it is a part of the game.
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  It's a really important, but sometimes you just want to get
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  going. And.
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  Horrible. If I'm, if I'm in that mood, I
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  will be like, no, I, I don't want to do it.
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  And I like, I really like. That's one thing about mahjong.
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  I like that one person gets to decide.
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  You don't need the majority. You don't need consensus.
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  One person gets to stop it and you're kind of showing your
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  hands in a way that you got a pretty darn good hand to begin
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  with if you're going to. Should that should be the case?
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  That should be the case. But just being, I'm just saying
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  it's such a good opportunity to build your hand.
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  I mean, you're trying to build the best hand you can, so just
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  arbitrarily stopping it because you're bored of it.
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  Never arbitrarily stop. I general genuinely think I only
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  have two, one or two tiles that I'm willing to let go of.
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  Yeah. I would say that I am precisely
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  calculating what is the likelihood of me getting a
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  better tile other than some stupid wind or dragon that I
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  don't need. But you don't, and I say it's
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  not worth it. But.
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  Oh God, yeah, I agree. That makes me insane.
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  Unless you are like 4 tiles away from mahjong, there is no
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  mathematical reason why you should stop the child.
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  That according to my calculations.
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  No what? If you have half of one hand and
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  half of another. One listeners, we have this same
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  conversation every single day we.
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  Have. To listen.
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  To this. It is fun to watch Tina.
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  And I would say this is probably the biggest influence of why
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  Tina started teaching mahjong, so she could get in front of
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  sharing her deep thoughts about the freaking.
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  Charleston. I do.
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  I teach. She's.
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  Cute when she's angry though. I'm not angry, I'm just
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  passionate about it now. One of the things we talked
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  about though about the Charleston, another reason why
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  you may not do the second Charleston is if you have a
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  house rule, which we sometimes do, which we have a house rule.
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  I have thoughts called the Watusi.
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  Now there might be different versions of this.
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  What that means is after in place of the courtesy pass, you
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  take 5 tiles from the wall, the wall every player gets to put up
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  to 5 tiles in. You smush them around you.
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  You pick however many you put in.
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  Sometimes you might pick up your own tile, but it's a quicker way
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  in my mind to offload some tiles you don't like.
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  There's a possibility that you get to have a joker.
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  Now I know everybody doesn't do that.
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  It's maybe you've never heard of it.
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  My point is, is that you might have a house rule that may be a
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  reason why you don't want to do the second Charleston that's.
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  Part of why the Watusi drives me crazy is because you people chop
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  off the Charleston well. That's not true though, because
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  again, if I have three or more tiles I will do a second
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  Charleston and then the Watusi and it's a super bonus.
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  That's true. Well, clearly we have different
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  thoughts. On this wait, we'll we'll keep
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  discussing. Is the juice worth the squeeze?
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  Oh my God, thank you. It.
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  Is always there's no downside to other away if you OK.
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  My mental health. This is my no.
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  This is my final thought because it's true if you are more than 4
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  tiles. If you need more than 4 tiles
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  for mahjong, there is no good reason to stop the frickin
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  Charleston. Disagree all.
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  Right, I think. I should Tina needs to take a
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  Tina take. Take deep breaths.
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  Let's do a little breathing exercise.
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  I need. To OK, great point.
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  Counterpoint first one we got ladies.
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  That was some good stuff. I love you all, even if you're
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  on each. Other even if we yell at you're
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  cursing us OK OK let's move on to some shenanigans yes Amy Amy
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  to get us to something we can agree on God this whole.
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  Podcast is shenanigans. Well, that's true.
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  Lord it Gideon. All right, so welcome to the
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  house shenanigans segment where we discuss stuff that people
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  make up. So people make up stuff and they
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  decide that's how they're going to play and everybody accept it,
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  accepts it so it. Makes it fun.
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  It does. So today we are gonna discuss
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  variations of the discard pile. There is no specific rule for
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  this, I believe. OK, so this is just your style
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  of your table. So we were taught when we.
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  Took our lessons. Took our lessons on discarding
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  it in a row. So we start a line of the
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  discards against one of the racks, and we go forward and
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  create nicely and orderly. We.
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  Call it a tapestry it makes. A.
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  It's also how if you play mahjong for friends online, it's
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  how the tiles are put out there. It's just.
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  In or in an order. Well, they're not.
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  In order. In order.
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  It's just in rows. It's not just.
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  You're tossing them Willy nilly. Yeah, on your mat.
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  Which you can do, some people do just toss them into the middle,
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  so. Yeah, so I was dismayed when I
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  did go out and play in the wild and recognize that not everybody
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  knows about the tapestry. Now everybody does this.
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  Most people don't do the tapestry.
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  Yes, but then how can you even see what's going on?
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  I. Have to pay attention.
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  Well, that's hard for me. Yes, so, so that's one extreme.
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  We actually, as we played as sisters, we did do some games
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  where we tried to take this tapestry to the next level and
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  we actually tried to organize the discard pile in order like
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  by suit and by sequence. And the goal of this was so that
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  we could easily peruse when we were looking for a tile, we
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  could quickly and easily find it.
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  But I think the general consensus was we didn't like it.
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  I think people didn't like managing.
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  It in the ass it was too. Much.
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  It took a lot of time to rearrange the tiles, to insert
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  you know what you needed to. And it was a distraction.
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  It was kind of a pain, yeah. And it didn't pay off in my
• 12:43
  opinion. I.
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  Agree, I think it's a little too much hand holding but then
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  that's Tina talking. Yeah, right.
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  Some of. Us like a little.
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  Bit so some. Of us.
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  Thank you. Yeah, some of us need a little
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  bit more mental capacity support than you.
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  Okay, yeah, so one other thought I had on this was that, thank
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  goodness some games like gin rummy actually have your discard
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  pile be face down. So Can you imagine if the
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  discard pile for mahjong was you actually have to place it face
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  down? Good.
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  Point wait, has anybody ever played that way?
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  I don't know, but I feel like that's taking it to the next
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  level. Well, no, because you have to
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  see what you're discarding so that you can call it.
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  What I mean? Well, it's.
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  Dead, yeah, but also you. I mean, you want to be able to
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  see what's been discarded so that you can make tactical
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  maneuvers and you're pivoting. Right.
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  I mean, that's just saying that would take.
• 13:33
  Away. Make it very well.
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  That would be nonsense. Well, I thought you liked to
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  challenge. Yeah, I.
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  Do like to challenge. I do like to challenge and
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  that's why I kind of prefer the Willy nilly discard.
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  The Willy nilly to me was so disconcerning to me.
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  I have a. Question.
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  We started with the tapestry. And it was.
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  Kind of nice push out a wall discarded tiles get in a way
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  it's just it's. So I have a question.
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  Is just discarding Willy nilly the same thing as what some
• 14:02
  people refer to as messy? No, no, it's completely
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  different. That's different.
• 14:07
  That's different. I think we we will cover that in
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  another that's a. Whole different.
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  It's not, so it's not synonymous.
• 14:11
  No, no, no, no, no, no. OK, that's a really good point,
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  but. Some people when they play, like
• 14:16
  to play so that they're not making it easier for the other
• 14:20
  people to win, which is why throwing it out just sort of
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  Willy nilly it it, it UPS the stakes.
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  What I, what I don't like about it is you can't tell.
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  It's not like looking back. Oh, it's, it's messy and I can't
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  focus on it. It's, it's hard to tell which
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  one was discarded. Like somebody could say it And
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  if I'm not paying attention, I forget and it's I can't find it.
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  If it's in kind of an order, I know where to look as far as
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  what it is. It is part of the game.
• 14:47
  Tina, we're fighting menopause here.
• 14:49
  Come on, we need a little help. I don't mind.
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  I don't mind the tapestry. I really don't.
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  So, so I will say this, our experience though is we
• 14:57
  typically use the tapestry. However, when we play with
• 15:01
  blanks, what we found with the tapestry is that the person who
• 15:07
  is like next to the tapestry has an advantage.
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  Because they. You can more sneakily.
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  You can't be as sneaky with the tapestry.
• 15:14
  So. We.
• 15:15
  Have made decisions in the past to say, hey, if we're playing
• 15:18
  with blanks we're going to do the random discard.
• 15:22
  Yeah, 'cause it was very it. And in fact, I think, I think
• 15:26
  that was the day I won March because it was in front of me
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  and it was much and I just happened to get quite a few
• 15:32
  blanks and it was much easier to be sneaky as opposed to you who
• 15:34
  was like climbing over the table trying to get it.
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  So that's an excellent. One get to swap out a discard
• 15:40
  though I still think blanks are. Wonderful.
• 15:43
  But there's no. I mean, I think it's interesting
• 15:45
  that there's no official right or wrong.
• 15:46
  Yeah, you're right. You would think there'd be a
• 15:48
  rule for that 'cause there's a rule for every elder.
• 15:50
  I just think the standard, I mean when you go out in the wild
• 15:54
  and you play, I think that just the random discard is what
• 15:57
  you'll see more. Yeah.
• 15:59
  So for. What it's worth?
• 16:01
  A question for everyone to reflect on, right?
• 16:03
  Is and yeah, go ahead. Do you want to adjust the game
• 16:07
  to make it easier or more difficult?
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  That's a decision we all have to make easier.
• 16:11
  Do you thrive in chaos or do you like a straight line?
• 16:16
  Yes, something for you and your table to decide.
• 16:18
  That's a good. How do you do it listeners?
• 16:21
  Is there another? Way to organize your discarded
• 16:25
  tiles to wear nothing. How could that be?
• 16:26
  Littlehouseofmaj@gmail.com People are creative.
• 16:29
  Because Maj. is fabulous no matter how you choose to play.
• 16:32
  That's right. And that's coming from Tina.
• 16:36
  OK, if you're out there listening, check us out on
• 16:38
  Instagram, Facebook, e-mail us at littlehouseofmaj@gmail.com.
• 16:43
  That's a wrap, ladies. And we'll see you next time on
• 16:46
  the. Little House of Maj. everyone.
• 16:49
  Is welcome in the little house.