Latest / Elon Musk Podcast / Elon Musk and Jack Ma Full A.I. Debate

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Elon Musk and Jack Ma Full A.I. Debate · Elon Musk Podcast

0:01
It isn't until my last but not least.
0:03
Let's welcome, mr. Allen Mass, the co-founder and
0:05
CEO at Tesla and Jack my the co-chair of the UN high-level
0:09
panel on digital cooperation, let's give them a very big
0:13
apart. Welcome go.
0:23
To have both of you here with us today.
0:25
The session is actually much awaited we've already posted
0:28
some of the keywords. Of the questions on the big
0:31
screen and later on, you can just click the word you're
0:34
interested in to talk about. Now the stage is yours.
0:42
True. What do you suppose a retreat?
0:44
And just things about AI perhaps.
0:47
Yeah okay let's see. Yeah.
0:52
Aii. Right.
0:53
You want to start owners AI? Yeah it is okay great.
0:58
Yeah. Actually I'm told it just say I
1:03
mean love it. Like it's not this like a name
1:06
may I it sort of sounds a bit like love.
1:08
Yeah Yeah II hate the word a I called artificial intelligence I
1:13
call it Ali. Baba intelligence.
1:15
Yeah might end up being true, you know.
1:22
I think generally people underestimate the the capability
1:28
of capability of AI. They sort of think like it's a
1:30
smart human, but it's it's really much.
1:35
It's going to be much more than that.
1:38
We much smarter than the smartest human.
1:41
Maybe it'd be like, you know, if like can it chimpanzee really
1:46
understand humans? Not really, you know, just we
1:51
just seemed like strange aliens. Well, they're mostly just care
1:55
about other chimpanzees and this will be how it is more or less
2:01
in relative into, in fact, if it's if the difference is only
2:04
that small, that would be amazing.
2:06
Probably it's much, much greater.
2:08
So, Like like the biggest mistake that I see, artificial
2:15
intelligence researchers making is assuming that they're
2:18
intelligent. Yeah, they're not compared to
2:21
Ai. And so like a lot of them
2:23
cannot, imagine something smarter than themselves, but a I
2:26
will be vastly smarter vastly. So what do you do with the
2:33
situation like that? What do you do in a situation
2:38
like that? I'm not sure, you know.
2:42
I hope they're nice. I mean, I have SLI some, you
2:46
know, I think in a situation where if you know, the old
2:49
saying, if you can't, if you can't beat them, join them.
2:52
You know, that's what neurolink is about is like, can we go be
2:58
along for the ride with AI? I mean, I really think that
3:03
there should be other companies like neural link essentially to
3:08
create a high bandwidth interface to the brain.
3:12
Because the right now, we are already a cyborg people's
3:17
realize. We are already a cyborg because
3:20
we are so well, integrated with our phones and our computers.
3:25
The phone is almost like an extension of yourself.
3:27
If you forget your phone, it's like a missing limb.
3:33
But the bandwidth, the communication bandwidth to the
3:36
phone is very low, especially input.
3:38
So in fact, input band was two computers as actually gone down
3:43
because of typing with two thumbs as opposed to 10 fingers
3:47
as a big reduction in bandwidth input bandwidth has gone up
3:52
because of video and and imagery.
3:56
So, input bandwidth is many orders of magnitude greater than
3:59
output bandwidth. But at a certain points, if
4:05
we'll, just even assuming assuming a benign scenario with
4:08
AI, we will just be too slow to something.
4:13
Let's say a computer that has like an exaflop of, you know,
4:18
many extra flaps of compute capability.
4:21
A millisecond is an eternity and to us.
4:23
It's nothing so You know, I think obviously like human
4:28
speech to a computer will sound like very slow tonal wheezing is
4:34
kind of like whale sounds. Yeah, you know because I what's
4:38
up, man with a few hundred vision about the technology.
4:41
I'm not a tech guy. I think I'm all about life.
4:45
I think AI is going to open a new chapter of the Society of
4:49
the world that people try to understand ourselves better
4:54
rather than the outside world. And it's so difficult to predict
5:00
the future. 99.99% of the predictions that human being had
5:07
in the history about the future all wrong, including that one.
5:11
Oh yeah. Only, you know, the 0.00% of the
5:17
prediction, on right there, right?
5:19
Because by accident. Yeah.
5:22
But it's also true that any person of Statistics or false?
5:24
Yeah, so my mania come on guys. So joke.
5:32
Buddies. I'm a happy about the artificial
5:35
intelligence or Ali. Baba intelligence, that's going
5:39
to understand a human, the inside of the human better.
5:42
So, when people worry a lot about artificial intelligence,
5:45
people should have more confidence in themselves,
5:48
because I think if the lot of solutions we don't have today
5:54
the but they will be Solutions tomorrow.
5:56
We don't have solutions for the young, people will have
5:59
Solutions, so I'm quite Optimistic.
6:03
And I don't think artificial intelligence is a threat.
6:08
I don't think a fish intelligence is something
6:12
terrible but human being a smart enough, to learn that.
6:15
And today, artificial intelligence is just like people
6:19
worry a lot about this today. At those people, I called them
6:23
called called College. Smartness, People Like Us
6:30
Street, Smart, We never scared of that.
6:33
We think it's a great fun and we want to change ourselves to
6:37
embrace it. I don't know man.
6:39
That's like famous. Last words is me tell you AI is,
6:44
I mean you look at sort of the rate of advancement it just in
6:49
general rate, of investment of computers is insane and like a
6:54
good example would be video games.
6:56
You know, if you have Back 40, 40 years ago, 50 years ago,
7:00
maybe you had Hong, that was just two rectangles on a square.
7:05
Now, you've got photo-realistic real-time simulations with
7:08
millions of people playing simultaneously if you assume any
7:11
rate of improvement at all the, I mean, these games will become
7:15
indistinguishable from reality. You will not be able to tell the
7:18
difference either that or civilization will end.
7:20
Those are the two options, but even if the rate of Technology
7:25
Improvement slowed down by 1000 then, okay, Advanced a thousand
7:28
years or 10,000 years. This is still a very tiny
7:35
civilization. Civilization has been around for
7:37
probably arguably, I think seven thousand years or something like
7:40
that. If you counted from the first
7:41
time, there was any any writing any recorded symbols besides
7:46
cave paintings. There's a very tiny amount of
7:50
time considering the universe is 13.8 billion years old.
7:55
I mean if civilization lasted for in the show is brought to
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backblaze.com, Ilan million years, we would only increment
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the third decimal point after 13.8 billion years if we lasted
10:18
for a million years so that seems like a long time given
10:26
that we've only been around for seven thousand years.
10:29
It's been pretty good to have been kind of a roller coaster.
10:31
Coaster on the civilization, front.
10:35
So, I mean, I'm not trying to be, I'm not naturally optimistic
10:39
person to be clear. I'm not saying, hey, Doom and
10:41
Gloom. I'm just saying, the, these,
10:45
this is the apparent pattern. The the rate of change of
10:50
technology is incredibly fast. It is outpacing.
10:55
Our ability to understand it. Well, I'm not sure.
10:59
Is that good or bad? I don't know.
11:02
It seems to me some time ago that you could sort of think of
11:05
humanity as a biological Bootloader for digital
11:08
superintelligence. If you're, if those are know
11:11
what a boot loader is, the very tiny piece of code without which
11:17
the computer cannot start. But it's sort of like the
11:21
minimal bit of code necessary for a computer to start.
11:24
Like, you couldn't evolved silicon circuits there needed to
11:28
be a biology to get there. Good.
11:34
Yeah. Well, let's talk about something
11:37
fun. I'm Adam.
11:38
I that you want to go on the Mars.
11:40
So we come to the Mars. Yeah, yeah.
11:44
So what will the life look like on Mars?
11:47
Are you both moving? What do you think about that?
11:51
Actually, I'm not interested in Mars.
11:54
I just came back from there, so I'm more interested on the
11:59
earth. The things.
12:00
What's going on happening here. So, what, why you're so curious
12:03
about the Mars? well, I think the thing about
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Mars is that I think it's important for us to take the set
12:14
of actions that are most likely to Continue Consciousness into
12:20
the future, what increases the probability of consciousness of
12:26
continuing into the future? I think we should not take it
12:28
for granted that Consciousness will continue because we have
12:32
not encountered. Any aliens?
12:34
Where are the aliens? This is the Fermi Paradox.
12:37
This is one of the most important questions.
12:40
How come, we've not found any aliens.
12:41
Those people out there. Think we found aliens, trust me.
12:43
I would know. We have not okay, people, let's
12:47
move. Area 51.
12:49
Okay please SpaceX actually has area 59 he's even better eight
12:55
better than 51. So I'm among the set of actions,
13:03
we can take that are likely to increase the scope and scale of
13:07
Consciousness such that we are better able to understand the
13:10
nature of the universe. One of those actions is to
13:13
become a multi-planet species or ensure that life is
13:17
multiplanetary. Not because I think something,
13:20
but it's not it, not from the standpoint of, it just being an
13:24
escape hatch or because I think that Earth is doomed, but there
13:27
was a certain probability that is Reducible that something may
13:32
happen to Earth despite our best intentions, despite everything
13:35
we try to do the, there's probability at a certain point
13:39
that some, either external force or some internal unforced error
13:46
causes civilization to be destroyed, or sufficiently
13:51
impaired such that, it can no longer extend to another planet.
13:57
It's hard to say I would like the like never put another way.
14:01
This is the first time in the four and a half billion year
14:04
history of Earth that it's been possible to extend life beyond
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Earth before this it was not possible.
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How long will this window be open?
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It may be open for a long time or it may be open for a short
14:18
time. I think we should it would be
14:20
wise to assume that it is open for a short time and and and
14:24
then let us secure the future. Secure the future of
14:28
Consciousness. Such that life of the light of
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Consciousness is not extinguished.
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And we should do try to do this as quickly as possible.
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That's my view, good. It's so difficult to secure the
14:43
future of the Earth, but we can secure the future of next, 100
14:47
years. I am not the person that I do,
14:51
my your courage for explore the Mars, but I admire a lot of
14:55
people spend efforts on improving the Earth.
14:59
It's great to send women and people to de Mars but we kept
15:03
the care about the seven point. Four billion people on the
15:05
Earth. How can we make the world's most
15:08
sustainable? And I'm not that fond of the
15:11
Mars, because I think it's easy to go to the Mars.
15:13
When you go on the top of the hills, of the of the building,
15:18
just the one step you go to Mars, we would never be able to
15:20
come back. Yeah, but that's my heavy heart
15:23
works though and also do it. I hate to go to the Himalayas
15:31
to. I mean, when you climb on the, I
15:33
think someday I would go there, when the elevator is ready.
15:36
I will go. They have a look.
15:38
But I think people spending more time on the earth, think about
15:44
it because no matter how long the civilization of the human
15:47
beings would be like 1 minute or two million or have many years.
15:51
But we only have 100 years. So we cannot solve all the
15:57
problems for future. But we have to be responsible
16:00
for the future but we should care more about how we can enjoy
16:04
better. My view is that by the
16:06
artificial intelligence or Or AI when human being understand
16:11
ourselves better. Then we can improve the water
16:14
better last 200 years. Human being try to understand
16:19
the other side were better understand the other people
16:22
better, but I think what I feel excited about, AI is AI, is to
16:27
understand people. The inside of the human beings.
16:32
The earth I heard you got a big Eternal in deep in the earth
16:36
which is amazing. I think anyhow every time when I
16:42
read the news about your interest in the outside space I
16:48
look at you with great respect. We need a Heroes like a you but
16:51
we need more Heroes like us working hard on the earth
16:56
improving things every day. That's what I want.
16:59
Sure. I mean, to be clear I'm very Pro
17:01
Earth. That sounds great to clear a
17:05
very Pro when I say, you know, us becoming a multi-planet
17:09
species or making life multi extending life, beyond earth,
17:15
expanding the scope, and scale of Consciousness from a resource
17:20
standpoint. I'm talking about less than 1%
17:22
of Earth's resources, should be dedicated to making life
17:26
multiplanetary or making Consciousness multiplanetary.
17:29
So you know, I think it should be like somewhere in between How
17:33
much we spend on lipstick? And how much we spend on Health
17:35
Care? Like, you know, things like for
17:38
the preservation of Consciousness, we should spend
17:41
maybe slightly more than we spend on on Cosmetics.
17:44
That's my, you know, and I'm Pro Cosmetics.
17:46
I like the great but but, you know, this probably worth
17:50
spending. I don't know.
17:52
Some like at least half a percent of births GDP on
17:56
extending life to be multiplanetary.
18:00
Maybe 1% I'd say seems like a good.
18:03
A good use of resources and but then 98, you know, you have like
18:08
two orders of magnitude more resources spent on Earth.
18:10
So it's not like it's you know, somehow going to fundamentally a
18:15
earth. If likes to just one percent of
18:17
Earth Resources on that order should be enough to make life.
18:21
Multiplanetary seems like a wise investment for the future and
18:26
obviously I spend a lot of my time on sustainable energy with
18:29
Tesla with electric cars. And solar and batteries and that
18:34
kind of thing. And I'm really excited to be
18:37
here in Shanghai for the Shanghai gigafactory.
18:41
Which is I think that Tesla China team has done an amazing
18:46
job. Really mind blowing like, I've
18:49
just astounded by how good the job is and how much progress has
18:54
been made. And I think it's a good story
18:57
for the world and to say like look look how much progress you
19:00
can make in China. This is extremely Impressive.
19:04
Like my hat is off, you know, you guys rock.
19:07
So I've never seen anything but so fast in my life before
19:12
brutally Frank, seen some crazy things.
19:15
So, you know, I think it's like I really think China is the
19:20
future. That's very impressive.
19:25
And is also some great progress on entrepreneurial rocket
19:30
companies in China as well. I Have to have made orbit and
19:34
it's very difficult, very hard to make orbit achieving orbit.
19:36
I have great respect, it was very hard.
19:42
Yeah. Pick up another topic for, yeah.
19:46
Jobs jobs jobs for Life jobs were straight thing.
19:51
Sure. So what new jobs will be created
19:56
to because of AI or has the change already started?
20:01
What do you think? I think why we needed that many
20:03
jobs, right? My view is that the jobs
20:09
actually, every technology Revolution, people start to
20:12
worry, right? Last 200 years, we worry about
20:15
The new technology going to take away all the jobs actually, we
20:19
made a lot of jobs, second because of the Industrial
20:22
Revolution job. Create a lot of jobs.
20:27
What I think is the next 20-30 years human being will live much
20:32
longer. The life science.
20:33
Technology is going to make people live, probably 100 120
20:36
years that may not be a good thing because you got a
20:40
grandfather's grandfather still working hard.
20:44
But the challenge is my question.
20:47
Why shouldn't we have a lot of jobs?
20:50
I think people should have work three days a week.
20:54
Four hours a day, when we have electricity, the power of
20:59
electricity is that we make people more time so you can go
21:04
to the color, okay? In the evening, you can go to
21:06
dancing party in the evening. So people because of electricity
21:10
people have more time I think because artificial intelligence
21:14
people will have more time, enjoy being human beings.
21:20
In your life in my life. I think I visit to problems, 300
21:25
cities in my life, my grand. My father visited through 30
21:28
cities. My grandfather will visit only
21:31
three cities so my grandchildren probably of it.
21:35
Probably. Will visit a three thousand
21:36
cities all his life? He's always on.
21:39
The Tesla is always on the robbers, always traveling
21:43
around. So I don't think we need a lot
21:45
of jobs. At that time, the jobs we need
21:49
is make people happier, make people experience the life,
21:53
enjoy the human beings, so I don't worry about the job jobs,
21:59
a lot first, we are going to have a lot of jobs.
22:02
Second, we don't need a lot of jobs, third.
22:06
There's a very interesting thing, bitch, because we will
22:09
probably talk about life. In the agriculture period.
22:15
Everage age is like a 30 35 years old in the industry
22:21
period. Technology Revolution people can
22:24
live 70 years. So in the artificial intelligent
22:28
period, people can live a hundred to the years that I
22:31
think. Now the problem comes when
22:34
people's life is getting better. People don't want to have
22:37
children. We're grand grandfather is
22:41
there. You don't want having children
22:43
at that time. We are going to have lot of jobs
22:46
with nobody want old, guys, for sure.
22:50
You would not be happy or you were happy because when your
22:55
grand grandfather said, oh, I need to work tomorrow than this
22:59
a disaster. So turn.
23:02
But we should be ready that we are going to enter into the area
23:07
that everybody can live 120 years and we have a pneumonia
23:12
problems that come up. So that's my view about jobs.
23:15
Don't worry about it. Will you will have jobs.
23:20
But yeah. I think so, if you're working on
23:28
something that involves people or engineering, it's probably a
23:34
good approach. You know, art, of course.
23:43
Yeah, like I said, I think we're going to have to figure out this
23:49
neurolink situation. Otherwise we will be left
23:53
behind. It's very important.
23:57
We do this quickly. Any time you don't have much
24:02
time. We don't have a much time of
24:07
what we don't have much time to solve the neural link.
24:11
Yeah, yeah, this is a thing of like technology like technology
24:18
and Technology awareness. There's like it's like if it was
24:20
like a topological map of Technology awareness, it's
24:25
mostly flat with a few short buildings and then some very
24:30
tall spires very tall spires and unless you are Not very tall
24:35
Spire, it's not obvious what the topology is.
24:40
Yeah, I never worry about the things that I cannot solve.
24:45
I let other people to solve it. If nobody can solve it, just let
24:49
it be. That's my life.
24:51
Oh you, let's talk about education.
24:53
I'm not quite an interesting about education.
24:56
And we yeah. So what knowledge or skills will
25:01
be useful to master the future. Do you have any advice for young
25:06
professionals who want to pursue a career in AI young
25:11
professionals? I don't think you will have
25:14
professionals on AI in the future.
25:17
Well I worry a lot about people worried about jobs but I worry
25:23
about education, all the education.
25:26
Items. The things we teach our kids,
25:29
the way we teach our kids are mainly designed for the
25:32
industrial period. And I'm sure the machine will be
25:37
much clever. The human beings in the future
25:42
How can a human being do? Better human being should be
25:46
smarter. Human being should be wiser.
25:49
So how can we be human beings to be more wiser smarter?
25:53
I think that we should change the way of Education, change the
25:57
things because in the in the past we focus a lot about, you
26:02
know, remember things. Computer can remember better
26:06
than you are. What a calculator faster
26:09
computer can rep can calculus faster.
26:12
We wander around faster computer can run much faster than you
26:16
are. So human beings should have
26:18
confidence by be more creative more constructive.
26:23
So how can we teach our kids to be more creative and
26:26
constructive? And I think this is the key of
26:31
the education and I want spending more time.
26:35
I'm on training kids art and painting on singing on Dancing.
26:42
You know all these are the creative things that make people
26:45
live like humans. Don't worry about machines, for
26:51
sure. We should understand one thing.
26:55
That man can never make another man.
27:01
Computer is a computer, computer is just a toy man cannot even
27:06
make a mosquito, so we should have a confidence computer.
27:10
Only have chips, men, have the heart.
27:14
It's the heart, where the wisdom comes from.
27:18
So I think in the next 10 or 20 years human beings or every
27:23
country, every government should focus on reform, the education
27:27
system, making sure our kids be able to find a jobs in the
27:34
future, be able to live in a life that only working three
27:38
days a week, four hours, a day. And that is very important.
27:44
If we do not change the education system that we are in,
27:47
we are all in going to be in trouble.
27:50
That's my view, and don't worry about it when we change it.
27:56
Yeah. Yeah, I would say try to learn
28:03
as much as much as possible that allows you to predict the future
28:08
or make the future. So the thing is the best way to
28:11
predict the future is to make it just and then assess, whether
28:17
what you are learning, is enabling you to predict the
28:21
future with less error. All your less wrong.
28:26
We are always wrong to some degree.
28:29
But can you reduce the error on your future predictions?
28:34
I think that's the way to look at education as well, of course.
28:40
But with both creative, create the future and predict the
28:42
future. So that includes art and all
28:45
those other things, but close the loop on being less wrong
28:50
about future. I would say that's the word,
28:53
right? Where you think about education.
28:57
I mean down the road with a neural link, you can just upload
29:00
any subject instantly. So we like the Matrix you want
29:04
to fly a helicopter? No problem.
29:06
Well helicopter will fly themselves but you know if you
29:09
wanted to do whatever any given skill, you just upload it
29:12
instantly on the way. Education Works right now, it's
29:16
extremely low. Bandwidth is extremely slow.
29:21
Lectures of the worst really is like, very slow.
29:25
Yeah, yeah, just try to predict the future with less error.
29:37
This is the hot. This is very hard as you were
29:40
saying. I'm not sure.
29:41
It's 99.9%, but it's not very good.
29:43
Generally, a prediction of the future but I think often people
29:45
don't try it. The first thing is try, if you
29:47
don't try okay, you know, got it.
29:51
You got it. To try and then and then adjust
29:54
based on the error of your flight Prime predictions.
29:58
Yeah I think just to try is very good.
30:01
We should always have the confidence to try the future and
30:05
I never worry about the errors and mistakes errors and mistakes
30:09
that at the best assets of human lives.
30:13
And humans I think that when people worry about that the
30:16
disasters that AI is going to Bringing.
30:18
I think it's not the disasters. It's the mistakes that cumin
30:22
beings make and Trust human beings will be able to correct
30:27
the mistake. And improve themselves and that
30:30
we need education. And this is what we think that
30:34
China. Today we have 1,800 new babies
30:41
born every year which which is not enough.
30:44
We need, we need to have like much more than that, but I think
30:48
the best resources of the human beings on the or the best
30:53
resources on the Earth are not the, cause not the oil.
30:57
Not the D. It's the human brains.
31:00
How can we make the human great brains more creative
31:03
constructive? How can we making sure that the
31:07
machines are always the toys and tools of humans rather than the
31:12
control? So I never in my life and
31:16
especially last two years. When people talk about it, a is
31:20
a human human being would be controlled by machines.
31:23
I never think about it. I think it's it's impossible.
31:28
Right? It's impossible because because
31:31
human beings they are different machines are invented by human
31:38
beings. And according to the size,
31:41
right? Humans can never create another
31:44
animal that is smart and humors especially where you have.
31:48
So many smart people. It's impossible to make another
31:51
smart people. I very much disagree with that,
31:54
okay? Yeah, that's good.
31:56
Yeah. But not with a I mean the first
31:59
thing is we should assume is that we are very down and we can
32:03
do, we can definitely make things smarter than ourselves.
32:05
I mean, the didn't used to be humans, right?
32:08
So then our earliest civilization was very primitive.
32:14
We don't have any technology, really?
32:16
We're just like, running around, you know, trying to not get
32:19
eaten or just want to survive a winter.
32:21
Now, we have like Heating and we grow food.
32:24
This is all new stuff. So you know, Things like what
32:28
was the gotten way more smarter than the past Wastewater?
32:31
So that's going to continue. We're not the last step in
32:34
evolution. So the most important thing,
32:38
like I said, the most important mistake, I see a smart people
32:41
making is assuming that they're smart.
32:44
So give me example what the animals or things that a human
32:49
being made, that is smarter than human beings.
32:53
What computers actually are already much smarter than people
32:56
on so many dimensions. We just keep moving the goal
32:58
posts. So we used to think, like, for
33:01
example, being good at chess was an example of a smart human and
33:05
then Kasparov was crushed by Deep Blue in 97.
33:09
That was a long time ago, 22 years.
33:14
I mean right now, your cell phone could crush the world
33:15
champion of Chess. Literally go used to be thought
33:21
of as something that humans were better at Than computers then
33:25
Lisa doll was beaten for was before 1 by Alpha 0.
33:29
Then a new version of alpha 0 also should say.
33:32
Alphago alphago beat least it all for one then there's Alpha 0
33:36
Alpha, 0 crushed, alphago, hundred 20.
33:40
Now it's just pointless because it just keeps playing itself.
33:43
Humans are trying to play a computer.
33:46
Go is like trying to fight Zeus. It's not going to work hopeless.
33:53
A hopeless, hopelessly inadequate in terms of
33:58
rendering. And basically there's just a
34:00
smaller and smaller corner of what of intellectual Pursuits
34:04
that humans are better than computers and that every year it
34:10
gets smaller and smaller. And and soon we will be far far
34:13
surpassed in every single way guaranteed.
34:18
Or civilization went? Those are the two possibilities.
34:21
Okay. Yeah, my view is that computer
34:25
may be clever by human being a much smarter.
34:30
Yeah, definitely not clever. Is very academic, is
34:33
knowledge-driven smarter is experience, driven computer is
34:40
not as clever, but it's human being.
34:43
We invented a computer where I never see a computer in.
34:47
Invented a human being. This is my first point.
34:51
Second point is that about a go play chairs.
34:57
It's stupid to compete with a computer on play goal just like
35:04
100 years ago. We're human being created cars.
35:08
So human being said, I can run faster than a car it's
35:12
impossible. It's only stupid people to
35:15
compete with a car who run faster go is designed for human
35:20
to play with human. Right.
35:23
The chest is designed for human to him.
35:25
Why should a human to fight against a computer?
35:31
So I never ever lie, play, chess or goal with computer.
35:38
I'll be happy to see two computers fight each other.
35:42
I'm not interested in playing golf with chess.
35:45
So I told those guys, they are very sets.
35:51
Computer would be smart. They're human beings because
35:53
computer can play chess better. I think you are stupid to
35:57
compete with that. Don't do that.
36:00
So this is what we always do. Things we are good at.
36:04
Sure. Okay, well, what would be an
36:06
example of something that humans are better than a computer at
36:09
and and then let's see if that happens.
36:13
Well, humans computer is only one of the clever tools that
36:20
human created and computers are so clever, but there will be
36:26
more tools that human beings will created.
36:30
Added much clever than computers.
36:33
That's my view. Okay.
36:37
Well, let me tell you like my video on the on AI is
36:40
essentially, the, you can view the advancement of AI as solving
36:45
things, with increasing numbers of degrees of with increasing
36:48
degrees of freedom. So, the thing that the thing
36:51
with the most most degrees of freedom is reality, but AI is
36:57
steadily Advanced solving things that have more and more degrees
37:00
of freedom. So obviously, it's something
37:03
like Checkers was very easy to solve that we could solve with
37:09
classical software classical Computing, not really well.
37:14
That challenging and in fact, there is a complete solution for
37:17
Checkers. Meaning it is literally
37:19
literally impossible, every, every version of checkers is
37:24
known. And then then this chest, which
37:30
is also which also had many many more degrees.
37:34
The freedom than Checkers, many orders of magnitude more than
37:37
Checkers. But still a really, I would say
37:40
hello order of magnitude lower degree of Freedom game.
37:45
Then there's go, which had many orders of magnitude more degrees
37:49
of freedom, than, than chess. So, it's really just stepping
37:54
through orders of magnitude of degrees of freedom.
37:56
This is the way to, I think view the advancement of intelligence.
38:01
Yeah. And Really get to the point
38:05
where it just can completely simulate a person in every way
38:08
possible. Like many people simultaneously.
38:11
In fact, I mean, obviously there's a there's a strong
38:13
argument, we're in a simulation right now.
38:17
So reminds you that joke of like you know, if life was a video
38:21
game what would be the review that's like?
38:25
Well, the graphics are incredible, as the plot is
38:29
confusing of the respawn takes a long time.
38:35
That's video game, that's life. If life for the video game
38:38
respawn, take it takes 20 years to spawn.
38:40
Human being and have them be fully conscious.
38:45
I'm worried about the birth rate which you alluded to earlier the
38:50
the contrary to like most people think we have like too many
38:53
people on the planet. But actually, this is this is an
38:57
outdated view. This is the assuming that AI is
39:01
fine or something that the AI is.
39:03
There's A future with a I I think the biggest problem, the
39:07
world will face in 20 years is population.
39:09
Collapse collapse. I want to emphasize this.
39:13
The biggest issue in 20 years. We'll be population collapse,
39:18
not explosion collapse. The it's very easy to see what
39:24
the world will look like in 20 years because humans have a
39:27
20-year boot sequence. So like you said, okay, well,
39:30
who is one last year, okay. Now, you know what the will look
39:32
like in 20 years, it's that easy, I absolutely agree with
39:35
that. The, the population problem is
39:38
going to be facing huge challenge, 1.4 billion, people
39:42
in Channel, sounds a lot, but I think next, 20 years will see,
39:46
this thing will bring big trouble to China and the
39:50
population decreasing of the hole.
39:53
The speed of population. Decreasing is going to speed up
39:57
and you've got a collapse. I agree.
39:59
Accelerating cholesteric class tolerating collapse.
40:02
And then, the carbonara bottle is like, well, what about
40:05
immigration like from where, you know, where you want to go to
40:10
spay? You know, the Mars and Mars
40:11
really magrib? Yeah, Marceline's here.
40:13
Papa like we're Mars. These people march.
40:16
Those people, you know, there's no zero people are right now.
40:18
So right now it's the machine planet is only some robots
40:20
there, this is something that We should pay special attention.
40:24
That's why the they 18 million new babies born in China, which
40:29
was less than I go. Only like one percent or
40:31
something. We should spend more time create
40:34
these people and treat life better but also I think about
40:38
the AI there is another thing which along I In my company, in
40:45
our company. A, I would call on Alibaba
40:48
intelligence because we think when things with order, we
40:52
things with logic machine can do always do better way.
40:56
I can do better, but if things result order without logic human
41:00
being can do better. For example, when you love
41:03
someone, there's no reason. Normally, I just love him or
41:06
just love her. I have no reason but when I hate
41:09
something body, when I want to do bad things on something.
41:14
There's a logic and with when there's a logic a I Can Do
41:18
Better, what we do on our end financing, we teach machine, all
41:24
the bad things that bad guys. Want to do machine can learn
41:28
quickly and arrest all the bad guys immediately.
41:32
But when you want to do good things, not necessarily AI means
41:36
love. That's absolutely right.
41:43
So, that is why the world, the a eyes, if the way I can bring
41:48
love, which I caught it in the past.
41:50
If you have your successful person, you have to be L EQ +
41:54
IQ, right? In the future.
41:56
If you want to survive in this world, you have to be the l, q,
42:00
the Q of love. That's important too.
42:05
Otherwise you cannot survive in artificial intelligence time.
42:09
Various love is the answer. Many songs about that.
42:12
You want to pick up the final one.
42:14
Another, another topic you'll excuse me, gentlemen, due to the
42:17
time is very limited, so we only have five minutes left.
42:20
So last question please we have a you want to pick up the last
42:27
Life or Killin beam machine. So you want to talk about your
42:30
cars ultimate? Tournament.
42:34
What do you want to talk? Let's build the skills.
42:37
Like one of those steps in a video game.
42:38
We've got like, pick a path. Just choice.
42:42
I choose life. Okay, life.
42:45
So how much longer do you think people can live for with the
42:50
help of a? I can, a I help with environment
42:53
sustainability. Can you?
43:00
I think, first of all, I think humans will solve environmental
43:02
sustainability. I do not mean to suggest
43:04
complacency, or that we just take it easy.
43:07
In fact, this is a self-fulfilling one.
43:10
Fulfilling prophecy. We must, we must take immediate
43:14
and dramatic action and we, you know, we can continue the
43:19
momentum towards environmental sustainability and trying to is
43:23
actually the world leader in this.
43:25
In fact, I'm not sure how well it is known outside of China.
43:28
Just how much China is a world leader in environmental
43:31
sustainability. It's extremely impressive.
43:33
I mean, I think half of all the electric cars in the world were
43:36
made in China last year, or something like that.
43:39
So, You know, I do. So I don't mean this is just
43:43
suggested complacency but I do think humans can and will solve
43:48
sustainability. If we can, if we can do the
43:53
neural lace, then I think, or the neural link, essentially,
43:57
the age will not matter that much, you can simply save your
44:04
state and restore your state. Like like a saved game.
44:10
Essentially something very close to that.
44:15
I do think we can we can solve a biological aging if we really
44:18
wanted to you'd have to make DNA changes but it's we're obviously
44:24
just on a on a clock oil all over the isms are.
44:29
I mean you can take a fruit fly for example and you could give
44:32
it yo to sort of have it to Daily Yoga and a very healthy
44:37
diet and is still going to live for three weeks, maybe four
44:40
weeks. So environmental factors are
44:44
relatively minor for extending life.
44:47
You have to change the DNA. And there's another question is
44:50
like, will people be okay with changing the DNA?
44:53
That's the thing about extending life, you know.
44:56
And probably people are a little bit reticent about that, but
45:00
that's essentially the thing that needs to occur to extend
45:02
life. You've got, you've got to stop
45:05
the DNA clock somehow. I know if we should work on this
45:09
or not, I think frankly, you know, it's it's probably a good
45:13
thing that we do eventually die. You know?
45:16
There's a saying like in physics like even physicists which are
45:21
generally quite objective is like the saying like, you know,
45:25
all the physicists don't change their mind, they just died.
45:29
So maybe you know, there's a it's good to have this life
45:32
cycle. Yeah, yeah.
45:36
Well I think I can definitely help the environment suspension
45:40
system ability and when human beings know themselves better
45:44
Puma being will be smarter and will be wiser.
45:47
The difference between clever people and smart people or wise
45:52
people. Smart people knows what he want
45:56
and how he can get it wise people know.
45:58
No, what he doesn't want. So when human beings using
46:03
artificial intelligence, they will understand themselves
46:05
better. And I think they will be a
46:07
menace of ways. People will live in a healthy
46:11
Earth and protect the health ears.
46:14
The reason why I want to stay in this earth, I want to work on
46:18
this Earth. I want to do anything.
46:19
I can to help this Earth to better because even in a go to
46:23
the space is great, but if we can spend resources, Just to
46:29
focus on help him pick up the garbage from the oceans.
46:33
That thing is more difficult than to go to the Mars.
46:36
But artificial intelligence can help us achieving that and solve
46:41
the problems and as a human being can live better can live
46:45
longer. But what we need is not only
46:47
lived longer, we want to live healthier.
46:50
How can we live? Healthier is to understand us
46:53
better, most of the disease caused by our Behavior.
46:59
So I think I'm 100% sure people will live longer people.
47:04
Will live healthier but may not necessarily live happier.
47:09
If you want to be happier, human beings are focusing on Valley
47:13
the vision and the vision and always have the dreams and I
47:17
don't want people love to tech knowledge and put them dreams on
47:22
the technology. I think technology should be
47:26
with dreams. It's the now Technologies.
47:29
Change of the world is the dreams behind the technology
47:33
that changed the world. So my my hope is that anything
47:38
we can do to improve this world to help in seven point four
47:44
billion, people live better and live healthier.
47:46
And this is all about our world and I think we will be working
47:51
very happily because I love your product Tesla, you know, making
47:55
word cleaner and no noise. And the Soul.
48:00
Such great technology. I'm happy.
48:02
You have a defect tree in China and I think we need to do more
48:06
things to improve this Earth improve this world and make sure
48:10
that people are happier. And people care about the
48:13
family. People care about the house.
48:14
That's all we should do and trust us trust a human beings
48:20
and just young people. Let's take responsibility for
48:25
today. Let's not take away all the
48:28
solutions. Tomorrow, it's great.
48:31
Human being make mistakes. It's great human.
48:35
Being learn from mistakes. It's Great To Die.
48:39
Ha ha. That's probably true.
48:41
Thank you. Yeah, you cannot live long.
48:44
It's like, yeah. Thank you fight for the light of
48:47
consciousness. Thank you, thank you.
48:54
Thank you so much for this very inspiring and futuristic very
48:58
informative dialogue. It seems is the typical dialogue
49:01
between the Earth.