Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #453 Jason Flom with Jennifer McMullan at the 2024 Innocence Conference

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#453 Jason Flom with Jennifer McMullan at the 2024 Innocence Conference · Wrongful Conviction

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Speaker 1: The following interview was recorded in person at the twenty
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Speaker 1: twenty four Innocent Network Conference in New Orleans. On March sixth,
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Speaker 1: two thousand and one, in McHenry, Illinois, two masked men,
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Speaker 1: one armed with a twenty two, attempted to rob a
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Speaker 1: Mexican takeout joint, but the owner grabbed a butcher knife
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Speaker 1: and his employee followed. As they chased the men out,
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Speaker 1: they caught one of the assailants and removed his mask.
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Speaker 1: The other assailant turned around, ripped off his mask and
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Speaker 1: opened fire, fatally shooting the owner and the surviving employee
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Speaker 1: ran back inside to call the police. The police canvass
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Speaker 1: the area and discovered four young people in a house
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Speaker 1: up the street, including a young woman named Jennifer McMullen. Eventually,
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Speaker 1: she and two of her friends confessed to a role
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Speaker 1: in the robbery homicide. But this is wrongful conviction. Wrongful
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Speaker 1: conviction has always given voice to innocent people in prison,
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Speaker 1: and now we're expanding that voice to you. Call us
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Speaker 1: at eight three, three, two oh seven four six sixty
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Speaker 1: six and tell us how these stories make you feel
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Speaker 1: and what you've done to help the cause, even if
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Speaker 1: it's something as simple as telling a friend or sharing
1:24
Speaker 1: on social media, and you might just hear yourself in
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Speaker 1: a future episode. Call us eight three three, two oh
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Speaker 1: seven four six sixty six. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction.
1:44
Speaker 1: Today's story is it's like something out of a Quentin
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Speaker 1: Tarantino movie, and the investigation, if you can call it, that,
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Speaker 1: is like something out of The Three Stooges or Keystone
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Speaker 1: Cops or something much more sinister. First of all, we
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Speaker 1: have I don't know why this is first time, but
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Speaker 1: for the first time, we have the co director of
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Speaker 1: the Illinois Innocence Project, Stephanie Cammell. She's been hiding out
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Speaker 1: from us while some of her colleagues have been on
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Speaker 1: the show multiple times. But it's overdue. But I'm really
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Speaker 1: honored to have you here.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having us and for profiling
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Speaker 2: Jennifer's case. We really appreciate it.
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Speaker 1: You go, don't embarrass you, but you're kind of a
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Speaker 1: legend in this space, so you know, it's really great
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Speaker 1: to have you here, and I'm very lucky and honored
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Speaker 1: to have the person here who lived through this ordeal,
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Speaker 1: Jennifer McMullin. Thanks for being here. Welcome to Ronful conviction.
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Speaker 3: Thank you so much.
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Speaker 1: And I always say I'm so happy you're here, but
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Speaker 1: I'm sorry you're here because you should have never been
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Speaker 1: on this show in the first place. This is this
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Speaker 1: case came with instructions. You were only nineteen when this
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Speaker 1: happened and the top of what your life was like
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Speaker 1: because you were a law abiding, sort of normal person.
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Speaker 1: You were born where.
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Speaker 3: Oh, Libertyville, Illinois.
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Speaker 1: Libertyville ALLNOI it sounds very all American, it is. Is
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Speaker 1: it like one traffic light like that kind of place.
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Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's a busy small town, but yeah,
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Speaker 4: it's an amazing place. I was born there and grew
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Speaker 4: up around Lake Beach with my stepfather and mother, only child,
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Speaker 4: three older siblings. The eldest is my brother, and then
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Speaker 4: the other two are sisters. There's ten years difference between
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Speaker 4: me and the next daughter. So they were all out
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Speaker 4: and getting married and having families, and I was the oops.
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Speaker 3: I came ten years later.
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Speaker 4: So growing up in my teens, I was the only
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Speaker 4: one in the house. But yeah, it was a great childhood.
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Speaker 4: Never in trouble, was always in sports, softball, soccer, competitive cheer,
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Speaker 4: and dance. Sports was definitely a passion for me.
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Speaker 1: Got it? Okay, so it sounds like a nice childhood.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I had an amazing childhood, amazing parents, siblings, family.
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Speaker 1: It was great and quite an athletic resume you have there,
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Speaker 1: as well as someone who didn't make the sports teams
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Speaker 1: in high school. I'm a little jealous, but you know,
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Speaker 1: I'm going to let that slide. That's why I played
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Speaker 1: the guitar and smoked pot instead. But that's a different podcast.
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Speaker 1: We're not going to talk about that now. But anyway, Okay,
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Speaker 1: so then let's go to this crime. Okay. This was
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Speaker 1: on March six of two thousand and one. Two masked
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Speaker 1: men attempted to rob a small restaurant in McHenry, Illinois,
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Speaker 1: right a Burrito express. The owner, welding a butcher knife,
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Speaker 1: and his employee chased the two men out of the restaurant,
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Speaker 1: and an ensuing chase, the owner was shot and killed. Jennifer,
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Speaker 1: you stumbled onto this scene right, so to speak. I mean,
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Speaker 1: you were talk about wrong place, wrong time. Absolutely tell
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Speaker 1: us how you came upon this chaotic and terrifying scene
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Speaker 1: and then how you eventually got implicated.
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Speaker 3: Definitely.
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Speaker 4: So that day, I remember I had got a call
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Speaker 4: from one of my friends who needed to find somebody
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Speaker 4: to borrow a laptop, so I called another friend who
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Speaker 4: I knew had one. So I went and grabbed my
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Speaker 4: three code defendants. We headed out to Twin Lakes, Wisconsin.
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Speaker 4: You know, just young listening to music and join a
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Speaker 4: car ride. Get to Twin Lakes. We end up finding
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Speaker 4: out that my friend wasn't allowed to loan out her laptop.
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Speaker 4: I think we say they are about fifty minutes, you know,
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Speaker 4: just chit chatting, and then we were on our way,
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Speaker 4: the four of us again and headed it out to mckenry, Illinois,
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Speaker 4: where one of my co defendants had a very close
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Speaker 4: family friend who lived out there.
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Speaker 1: Our listeners may remember mckenry, Illinois from the story of
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Speaker 1: Mario Kasharo, whose lead detective was a former failed hardware
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Speaker 1: store stock boy. Yeah. I know it sounds crazy, but
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Speaker 1: it's true. And it's the same prosecutorial team Combs and
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Speaker 1: Kanneely who prosecuted Mario three separate times while having more
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Speaker 1: evidence supporting an alternative narrative. And we're going to have
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Speaker 1: that incredible episode linked in the episode description because Jennifer's
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Speaker 1: case bears such a strong resemblance.
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Speaker 4: As we're going into mckenry, we heard like a lot
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Speaker 4: of commotion, ambulance squad cars. We ended up going to
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Speaker 4: a smoke shop dispensary type place. Only one code defendant
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Speaker 4: went in and the rest of us stayed in the car.
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Speaker 4: From there we went to another co defendant's friend's house,
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Speaker 4: which ended up being right in the vicinity of the
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Speaker 4: Brito Express.
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Speaker 1: Jennifer's friends and later co defendants Kenneth Smith, Justin Hoftling,
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Speaker 1: and David Collette. Their sole connection to the situation was
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Speaker 1: that they arrived at their friend's house near the Burrito
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Speaker 1: Express in the aftermath of this robbery turned homicide that
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Speaker 1: occurred around seven to twenty pm the same evening.
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Speaker 2: Two masked men came into the Brito Express. No one
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Speaker 2: was in there except the owner of all Presento and
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Speaker 2: his employee, at Wardo Pardo, and they were in the
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Speaker 2: back and the first mask man had a twenty two
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Speaker 2: caliber gun and they were attempting to rob the Brito Express.
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Speaker 2: Mister Briseno took the butcher knife and started chasing them,
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Speaker 2: with mister Pardo following right behind him. They chased them out.
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Speaker 2: Now this is March in northern Illinois. There's ice, it's cold,
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Speaker 2: and one of the perpetrators slips on the ice and falls,
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Speaker 2: and so mister Pardo grabs him, takes off his mask
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Speaker 2: so he gets a good look at him and starts
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Speaker 2: dragging him back to the restaurant. Mister Briseno, the owner,
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Speaker 2: has yelled at a passing car to call the police,
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Speaker 2: and the perpetrator starts yelling to his friend because he's
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Speaker 2: now been caught. The friend turns around and removes his
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Speaker 2: mask and starts shooting. He's trying to get him to
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Speaker 2: let his friend go, and mister Preseno and Pardo are
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Speaker 2: dragging him back to the Brito Express. At one point,
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Speaker 2: mister Presento gets hit, and so mister Pardo drops the
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Speaker 2: perpetrator and runs in and calls the police. By the
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Speaker 2: time he comes back out, the two men are gone
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Speaker 2: and mister Burzeno is on the ground and has been shot.
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Speaker 2: He died a little bit later. Within ten minutes of
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Speaker 2: everything starting. The police were there, and mister Pardo spent
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Speaker 2: a couple of hours that night with law enforcement, and
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Speaker 2: they got composite sketches of each of the suspects that night.
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Speaker 1: Pardo also said that the assailant heat caught was wearing
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Speaker 1: green leather jacket and police began to canvass the area
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Speaker 1: looking for suspects. Meanwhile, Jennifer and her friends were just
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Speaker 1: up the hill from the Burrito Express.
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Speaker 4: Throughout the evening, we were watching out the back window
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Speaker 4: of that house. We saw detectives putting you know, the
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Speaker 4: yellow markers on the ground for the different things that
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Speaker 4: they were finding. I ended up not driving home that
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Speaker 4: night because I was scared. I called my mother and
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Speaker 4: told her, you know, something was going on in this area.
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Speaker 4: I'm gonna go ahead and stay here for the night.
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Speaker 4: It was the four of us. The mother came home
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Speaker 4: from work, she worked at a gas station nearby the house.
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Speaker 4: There was a couple of younger kids there, you know,
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Speaker 4: and we were just in the house actually watching the
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Speaker 4: news of the scene of the crime in what was
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Speaker 4: going on. Of course you're interested, and it's you know,
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Speaker 4: happening right behind you. And then we all eventually went
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Speaker 4: to sleep. While we were sleeping, mc henry police were
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Speaker 4: doing canvassing of the neighborhood and when they had came
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Speaker 4: to the house, they asked for the people's IDs who
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Speaker 4: were in the house. I was sleeping and they were
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Speaker 4: given to my id out of my purse.
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Speaker 2: As she said, they canvassed the neighborhood and had all
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Speaker 2: the different identification and so Jennifer I think, was questioned
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Speaker 2: a couple of different times and obviously told them they
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Speaker 2: knew nothing about this. And what we've learned later is
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Speaker 2: they seemed to zero in on her friend, her co defendant,
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Speaker 2: Ken Smith, and I've heard that they thought he may
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Speaker 2: have gotten away with something else, another crime. He hadn't
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Speaker 2: really been in trouble before, and so I think it
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Speaker 2: just seemed like all of a sudden, they thought he's
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Speaker 2: right here behind the Burrito Express, must have done this.
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Speaker 1: It was later discovered that mister Pardo had viewed a
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Speaker 1: photo array that contained photos of Jennifer's co defendants, but
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Speaker 1: did not identify them. It's believed that he was deported
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Speaker 1: and Jennifer and her friends remained the focus of the investigation.
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Speaker 1: The police theory was that Jennifer and perhaps David Collette,
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Speaker 1: drove Ken Smith and Justin Hoftling to the Burrito Express
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Speaker 1: before the crime, and may or may not have known
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Speaker 1: what the assailants had planned, and they brought Jennifer in
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Speaker 1: on May eleventh, two thousand and one to take a polygraph.
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Speaker 3: I went in willingly.
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Speaker 4: It was to mckenry County Detectives, a round the beach
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Speaker 4: police officer who was actually a friend of the family
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Speaker 4: and family yes, and was accompanying me in the situation,
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Speaker 4: assuring my mother they just want to talk to her.
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Speaker 3: You know, you don't need a lawyer. Don't worry.
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Speaker 2: Her mother specifically asked if she needed to get her
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Speaker 2: a lawyer. Yes, you're told that if you have nothing
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Speaker 2: to hide, why would you need a lawyer, And that
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Speaker 2: is so incorrect. Make sure that you have representation as
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Speaker 2: you're trying to be helpful to the police.
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Speaker 1: But there was another factor at play here.
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Speaker 4: I was diagnosed with bipolar and manic depression, so I
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Speaker 4: was on medication. Before I went into the light detective test,
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Speaker 4: I was given a dose of one of my medications,
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Speaker 4: which was clanipin, So clanopin is a sleep aid.
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Speaker 2: After that or she had the light detector test, there
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Speaker 2: were only four questions asked. After that, they come out
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Speaker 2: and say a couple answers were highly suspicious, and so
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Speaker 2: then they start trying to what really happened? What really happened?
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Speaker 2: They didn't believe her. They didn't believe her.
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Speaker 1: By two thousand and one, polygraphs were no longer admissible
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Speaker 1: in court. And when law enforcement tells the subject that
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Speaker 1: they failed or their answers were suspicious, this serves to
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Speaker 1: arm interrogators with a pseudo scientific reason why their subjects
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Speaker 1: denials just cannot be believed.
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Speaker 4: We get back to mckenry County Police Department. They take
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Speaker 4: me into almost like a boardroom with long tables, big
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Speaker 4: screen TV. They pop in a VHS and it was
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Speaker 4: footage of the smoke shop, which was called Cloud nine.
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Speaker 3: And the footage did show.
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Speaker 4: One of my co defendants in their shopping around, which
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Speaker 4: did happen that night We did go to the smoke shop.
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Speaker 4: So they asked me to identify who was on the tape.
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Speaker 3: I did so.
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Speaker 1: It was David Collette on video at seven thirty eight pm. Importantly,
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Speaker 1: they were all still together at Jennifer's ordeal continued.
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Speaker 4: Another detective comes in that that I hadn't met that
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Speaker 4: day yet, So it becomes three detectives in myself in.
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Speaker 2: The room, multiple mail, law enforcement officers, no parent, no attorney, nothing, and.
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Speaker 4: He basically just started saying, this is what we want
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Speaker 4: you to say, tell us what we want to hear,
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Speaker 4: and you can go home. We know you didn't have
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Speaker 4: anything to do with it. Just give us this name
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Speaker 4: and all this can be done and over with. And
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Speaker 4: as I keep saying, we didn't commit this crime, I
12:38
Speaker 4: don't know you know what you want me to say.
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Speaker 4: I don't know what you're talking about, Like this isn't right,
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Speaker 4: you know. Sorry.
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Speaker 2: At any time, you know, an attorney could have said
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Speaker 2: this is not going to go on anymore. She kept
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Speaker 2: asking to go home and thought she was going to
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Speaker 2: go home, and they kept saying, oh, we will take
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Speaker 2: you home, you know, until it gets longer and longer again.
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Speaker 2: Social science study shows people's defenses start to break down
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Speaker 2: after about an hour and a half.
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Speaker 4: This went on for over fourteen hours, as they kept drilling,
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Speaker 4: starting and stopping recording. Just tell us what we want
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Speaker 4: to hear and you can go. I just remember being
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Speaker 4: in a daze from the medication, not understanding, just wanting
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Speaker 4: it to be over with.
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Speaker 2: Oftentimes people they'll say anything just to get out of
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Speaker 2: the situation, thinking well, we'll get out of the situation,
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Speaker 2: and then they'll find out the evidence and it'll show
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Speaker 2: that I didn't do it. You know, they'll go get
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Speaker 2: the actual perpetrators, right.
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Speaker 3: So eventually.
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Speaker 4: One of them sat with like a yellow legal pad
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Speaker 4: and he would write down descriptions of things that happened
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Speaker 4: in the crime. Even drew a picture of like the
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Speaker 4: gun that was used and kind of like a description
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Speaker 4: of it. And he said, if there's anything at you
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Speaker 4: mess up on, you can glance over here at this
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Speaker 4: legal tablet. And every time I didn't get something great,
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Speaker 4: you would shut off the camera recording and just start screaming.
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Speaker 3: And then I just couldn't take any more and told
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Speaker 3: them what they wanted to hear, just that we can
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Speaker 3: be over with. I just wanted to go home.
14:29
Speaker 1: You're listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen to this
14:32
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14:38
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. In a videotape statement that ended around
14:46
Speaker 1: ten ten pm, Jennifer said that she saw police activity
14:49
Speaker 1: in the area, then lent her card to her three friends.
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Speaker 1: Then they returned and admitted to the shooting. But why
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Speaker 1: would there be police activity before the alleged assailants even
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Speaker 1: left to commit the crime that makes absolutely no sense.
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Speaker 2: There are two different videotape interrogations. In the first one,
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Speaker 2: she starts breaking down and giving them information, but again
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Speaker 2: highly unreliable. They take a break and while they said
15:15
Speaker 2: they did not give her medication until after the second interrogation,
15:19
Speaker 2: the video stops recording, but on the audio you hear
15:23
Speaker 2: a man say, do you want coffee with your medication?
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Speaker 2: And then the false confession from that first videotape wasn't
15:30
Speaker 2: really accurate, So then they do another videotape and they
15:33
Speaker 2: get the confession that ends up being used at her trial,
15:38
Speaker 2: which is more accurate. But again none of the withheld
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Speaker 2: facts from the crime. Did she know, did her code
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Speaker 2: defendants know? Had no idea.
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Speaker 1: Often police will withhold information from the public in order
15:50
Speaker 1: to better assess the credibility of witnesses. In this case,
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Speaker 1: there were two details well, that mister Persseno had a
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Speaker 1: head injury that was consistent with being histol whipped, and
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Speaker 1: two that mister Persseno had yelled to a passing car
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Speaker 1: to call nine one one. Jennifer mentioned neither. Instead, she
16:08
Speaker 1: placed herself in the car, alleging that all three of
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Speaker 1: her co defendants had participated, and that only one wore
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Speaker 1: a mask, directly contradicting the known facts of the crime.
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Speaker 4: I remember falling asleep in the corner of the interrogation room.
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Speaker 4: I remember a blanket being thrown on me. The next morning,
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Speaker 4: I woke up in a holding cell. I woke up
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Speaker 4: to a detective throwing a bag of McDonald's breakfast at
16:31
Speaker 4: me and saying, you need to get up.
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Speaker 3: We're charging you with first degree murder.
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Speaker 1: Wow.
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Speaker 4: They shackled me, put me in a squad car, and
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Speaker 4: took me to mckenry County Jail.
16:41
Speaker 1: The following day, they arrested fifteen year old Justin Hoftling,
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Speaker 1: who informed the police that he was on hallucinogenic drugs,
16:48
Speaker 1: but they interrogated him anyway. The buck I'm sorry. He
16:57
Speaker 1: maintained his innocence, but changed his story when he was
17:01
Speaker 1: told a lie that all three of his friends, not
17:04
Speaker 1: just Jennifer, had made incriminating statements and that if he
17:07
Speaker 1: did too, he could make a deal. He said that
17:11
Speaker 1: Jennifer drove him and Smith to the Burrito Express and
17:14
Speaker 1: they committed the robbery homicide.
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Speaker 2: Her co defendant, who was fifteen, gave a very unreliable
17:20
Speaker 2: confession didn't have any of the facts correct. When they
17:23
Speaker 2: gave him choices of the gun, he chose an automatic,
17:26
Speaker 2: not a twenty deal.
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Speaker 5: Yes.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was under the influence of drugs too during
17:31
Speaker 2: his false confession.
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Speaker 1: Justin Hoftling was facing potentially sixty seven years in prison,
17:37
Speaker 1: and so he accepted a twenty year sentence. David Colette
17:40
Speaker 1: accepted five years to testify that Jennifer drove all three
17:43
Speaker 1: of them to the Burrito Express where he split from
17:46
Speaker 1: Ken and Justin and did not participate. But before anyone
17:50
Speaker 1: appeared in court, the mother of an alternate suspect came
17:55
Speaker 1: forward and pointed the finger at her own daughter.
18:00
Speaker 2: Was never disclosed to Jennifer's trial council was there was
18:04
Speaker 2: an alternate suspect group that had repeatedly confessed to family
18:08
Speaker 2: and friends of committing this crime. In November of two
18:12
Speaker 2: thousand and one, the mom called in to the police
18:15
Speaker 2: and she says, my daughter told me you have the
18:18
Speaker 2: wrong people. That her daughter was driving in the car
18:22
Speaker 2: and saw her friends run into the Brito Express and
18:25
Speaker 2: then saw them run out, and the owner yelled at
18:28
Speaker 2: her to call the police.
18:30
Speaker 1: Wow.
18:31
Speaker 2: She also said that her daughter saw the person that
18:35
Speaker 2: was doing the shooting come back and hit mister Bresento
18:39
Speaker 2: in the head with the butt of the gun to
18:41
Speaker 2: knock him over to let go of his friend. That's
18:44
Speaker 2: two pieces of information about the crime that they withheld
18:50
Speaker 2: from the public to corroborate confessions.
18:53
Speaker 1: The daughter's name is Suzanne de Chico and her friend's
18:56
Speaker 1: names are Russell Levon and Adam Hyland.
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Speaker 2: The alternate suspect was at her mom and stepdad's home,
19:02
Speaker 2: which was also close to the Brito Express And because
19:05
Speaker 2: it was a bloody struggle, the alternate suspect got cut
19:08
Speaker 2: up on his shins from the ice, but also his
19:11
Speaker 2: hand got a cut from the knife, and they end
19:13
Speaker 2: up burning their clothes because there's so much blood. And
19:15
Speaker 2: eight weeks to ten weeks later they took her card
19:18
Speaker 2: over the board in Wisconsin and torched the car because
19:21
Speaker 2: they couldn't get the blood out from the back seat
19:24
Speaker 2: of the car. Jennifer's car. In twenty twenty still, when
19:27
Speaker 2: we were going in for DNA testing, it was still
19:30
Speaker 2: impounded by the police. They had it in their custody,
19:33
Speaker 2: you know. Nineteen years later they never found anything in
19:36
Speaker 2: the car because it wasn't nothing was in there right.
19:39
Speaker 2: So you have this mother calling in. She identifies the
19:43
Speaker 2: two friends of her daughter's and her daughter her daughter
19:46
Speaker 2: has confessed to other.
19:47
Speaker 1: People, and the police didn't just ignore this tip.
19:50
Speaker 2: When this mother called in, she also said they stole
19:54
Speaker 2: my husband's gun. Then they tested that gun and found
19:57
Speaker 2: that the bullet that was taken from mister Zunno's body
20:00
Speaker 2: matched five of the six grooves, but they couldn't say
20:03
Speaker 2: it definitively matched, but it had a crack in the handle,
20:07
Speaker 2: which her daughter talked about him hitting mister Bresento in
20:11
Speaker 2: the forehead with the butt of the gun to get
20:13
Speaker 2: him to let go of his front.
20:15
Speaker 1: When it comes to ballistics testing, guns can only be
20:18
Speaker 1: definitively ruled out not matched, to the exclusion of all
20:23
Speaker 1: of the guns on the planet. But with the cracked
20:25
Speaker 1: handle and matching mother daughter confessions, it appears that this
20:30
Speaker 1: crime basically solved itself. Even still, police and prosecutors hid
20:35
Speaker 1: this information from the defense and put Justin Hoffling and
20:39
Speaker 1: David Collette on the stand of Jennifer's trial in March
20:41
Speaker 1: two thousand and two. But theirs and Jennifer's stories were
20:45
Speaker 1: inconsistent with each other, as well as inconsistent with reality,
20:49
Speaker 1: which naturally raised doubts.
20:52
Speaker 4: So it was last day of the trial, the jury
20:55
Speaker 4: was arguing they couldn't come to a decision. The judge
20:58
Speaker 4: I had Arnold stated to the jury that they had
21:03
Speaker 4: to hurry up and come up with the decision, and
21:06
Speaker 4: the jury was brought in and I was found guilty.
21:09
Speaker 2: You see on the sentencing documents stating that she did
21:12
Speaker 2: not participate in the planning or carrying out of this,
21:16
Speaker 2: that she wasn't a threat to society, that she'd never
21:19
Speaker 2: been in trouble with the law, but because she drove them,
21:22
Speaker 2: he sentenced her harshly to twenty seven years in prison.
21:27
Speaker 1: And the crazy irony is that the people that she
21:29
Speaker 1: drove also had nothing to do with it.
21:30
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, although of course law enforcement said her friends
21:35
Speaker 2: committed this crime.
21:36
Speaker 1: Even if that were true, that would mean that if
21:39
Speaker 1: you at home speaking to everybody who's listening for me,
21:44
Speaker 1: or you were just sitting in our car and a
21:45
Speaker 1: couple of friends come up and go, hey, can I
21:47
Speaker 1: get a ride down the block, and you give them
21:50
Speaker 1: a ride, not knowing that they may have done anything,
21:54
Speaker 1: you can now be convicted a sense to twenty seven
21:57
Speaker 1: years in prison.
21:58
Speaker 4: Twenty seven years, straight through, no good days, no credit
22:02
Speaker 4: for school, no contracts for good time, straight through.
22:06
Speaker 1: I hope it's making everybody else's angry as it makes me,
22:09
Speaker 1: because it's absurd. It's actually absurd. But the other thing
22:13
Speaker 1: about this that I got to go back to is
22:15
Speaker 1: the fact that they had to have known because of
22:19
Speaker 1: this conscientious mom. There should be so much credibility.
22:23
Speaker 5: In that phone call. Yes, and she had the accurate information, Yes,
22:28
Speaker 5: but Jennifer didn't right and her code events confession was
22:31
Speaker 5: wrong in different ways exactly.
22:33
Speaker 1: So the jury comes back and finds you guilty.
22:37
Speaker 4: Yes, as he read the verdict, I remember watching the
22:41
Speaker 4: judge like everything was in slow motion, and I turned
22:45
Speaker 4: around and looked at my mom, and I.
22:47
Speaker 3: Just saw fum and disbelief.
22:56
Speaker 4: And then they took me away. Being in prison and
23:11
Speaker 4: being innocent of the crime that you're convicted of. One
23:14
Speaker 4: time I told somebody, I've never felt so alone around
23:18
Speaker 4: so many people. When you go through something like this,
23:22
Speaker 4: it's like you go through stages like, Okay, I know
23:25
Speaker 4: I'm wrongfully convicted, but at nineteen, they're sending me to
23:29
Speaker 4: an adult max women's facility. I have to prepare myself
23:33
Speaker 4: for this. You finally get there and you're like, Okay,
23:37
Speaker 4: I'm here. I don't know what's going on. I know
23:39
Speaker 4: that I'm innocent. Now I have to take this next step,
23:42
Speaker 4: this next stage, and the stages you went through before that,
23:46
Speaker 4: you never heal from any of it because you're just
23:48
Speaker 4: facing the next one, facing the next.
23:50
Speaker 3: One, trying to get through every day, trying to get
23:52
Speaker 3: you know, and.
23:53
Speaker 4: It's all on you to figure out what you're going
23:56
Speaker 4: to do every day to help yourself get through it. Programs,
24:01
Speaker 4: different things that you can do to stay sane.
24:05
Speaker 1: While Jennifer was Brave in prison, the evidence about the
24:08
Speaker 1: alternate suspect was coming out during Ken Smith's first trial,
24:11
Speaker 1: and her appellate council used that evidence, albeit unsuccessfully.
24:16
Speaker 2: So Jennifer had been represented up to a point, and
24:19
Speaker 2: then her case was basically dormant, but all along, her
24:22
Speaker 2: co defendant, Ken Smith, who they alleged was the actual shooter,
24:27
Speaker 2: was tried by McHenry County three different times. As we
24:31
Speaker 2: go in and litigate cases, defense attorneys and prosecutors are
24:35
Speaker 2: making motions to bring stuff in, keep stuff out. His
24:38
Speaker 2: convictions kept getting overturned by the appellate court immediately because
24:43
Speaker 2: evidence kept being left out.
24:46
Speaker 1: Importantly, the ballistics testing for Suzanne to Chico's step father's
24:50
Speaker 1: twenty two caliber rifle came to light, as well as
24:52
Speaker 1: even more confessions from Suzanne to Chico.
24:55
Speaker 2: She was in trouble often with the law. They knew her.
24:59
Speaker 2: They were talking to her about something else, and she
25:02
Speaker 2: told two different police officers about this and they didn't
25:06
Speaker 2: take her seriously. They said she was bragging and trying
25:08
Speaker 2: to get street cred.
25:10
Speaker 1: And it appears that Justin Hoftling also had a guilty conscience.
25:14
Speaker 2: Yes, he wrote Jennifer four months later apologizing for lying
25:20
Speaker 2: he wouldn't testify against her co defendant Ken Smith in
25:22
Speaker 2: his first trial. That trial got overturned. They go to
25:26
Speaker 2: retry him again in the second trial. He gets on
25:29
Speaker 2: the stand and gives his false confession. On cross examination,
25:34
Speaker 2: he admits that he just lied, that Ken didn't do this.
25:37
Speaker 2: They didn't do this, but he had to stick with
25:39
Speaker 2: his false confession or they were going to revoke his
25:41
Speaker 2: FLEA deal. They then prosecute him for perjury and he
25:44
Speaker 2: gets five and a half more years.
25:46
Speaker 1: The judge also blocked any evidence implicating the alternate suspects,
25:51
Speaker 1: even though Adam Hyland had allegedly confessed to his roommate
25:55
Speaker 1: and to others.
25:56
Speaker 2: And the roommate said, you need to talk to an
25:58
Speaker 2: attorney and took him to see a defense attorney, and
26:01
Speaker 2: he told the defense attorney, with his roommate sitting there,
26:04
Speaker 2: me and my friend did this. We were trying to
26:06
Speaker 2: rob the Brito Express. And the defense attorney told him
26:09
Speaker 2: to be quiet, don't say anything. They already have other
26:12
Speaker 2: people for this crime.
26:14
Speaker 1: How do we know all that?
26:15
Speaker 2: Well, in her co defendant's third trial, the roommate got
26:20
Speaker 2: on the stand and under oath testified to that.
26:23
Speaker 1: However, at Smith's third trial in twenty twelve, once again
26:27
Speaker 1: amount of evidence corroborating the alternate suspects was not admitted.
26:30
Speaker 1: But even with that, it's still surprising that the jury
26:33
Speaker 1: once again convicted and sent Ken away for sixty seven years.
26:38
Speaker 1: When law enforcement just too kind to say they botch
26:41
Speaker 1: it when they really cover it up for the actual perpetrators.
26:46
Speaker 1: That means our tax dollars are paying these people to
26:49
Speaker 1: work in service of the actual people who committed these crimes.
26:54
Speaker 2: Yes, well, and we know in this case that these
26:58
Speaker 2: alternate suspects have gone on to commit multiple crimes. McHenry
27:01
Speaker 2: has prosecuted them over and over and in something out
27:05
Speaker 2: of a movie that you couldn't script. When we went
27:07
Speaker 2: into ru the DNA motion, the alternate suspect, who were
27:11
Speaker 2: pretty certain was the shooter, was being arraigned on drug
27:13
Speaker 2: induced homicide charges same day in the same court.
27:18
Speaker 1: And that homicide happened after that.
27:21
Speaker 2: Oh this was twenty twenty. We're in there, but they've
27:24
Speaker 2: prosecuted him over and over for multiple crimes. He's been
27:26
Speaker 2: in and out of prison, as has the other alternate suspect.
27:30
Speaker 1: Right, had they done even a fraction of their jobs,
27:33
Speaker 1: these other people who were harmed or killed by these
27:37
Speaker 1: two guys would have never met those fates. Right, And
27:40
Speaker 1: the PRESENTO family, the part of family, is deprived of
27:44
Speaker 1: justice as well.
27:45
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, they do not know all of the new evidence
27:49
Speaker 2: that we have, and so they only know what they're told.
27:52
Speaker 2: And the state's attorney and the prosecutors are certain that
27:56
Speaker 2: they still got the right people despite her co defendants exoneration,
28:00
Speaker 2: and so you know, they think that we're trying to
28:03
Speaker 2: just pin it on someone else. I mean, you know,
28:06
Speaker 2: they which is too bad. You know, the DNA testing
28:09
Speaker 2: that we did in twenty twenty one of the crime
28:11
Speaker 2: scene evidence, the knife, the clothing. Of course, we all
28:15
Speaker 2: know Jennifer's going to be excluded, but all three co
28:17
Speaker 2: defendants all excluded, and you know, there was that close
28:20
Speaker 2: tussle and they're dragging him the knife. But there's one
28:24
Speaker 2: unknown male DNA that is in there that has not
28:27
Speaker 2: been compared to the alternate suspect standards. They won't always see.
28:31
Speaker 1: That time and again. Yeah, so then how did you
28:34
Speaker 1: end up connecting with the Illinois ANISIS project.
28:38
Speaker 4: I found a paralegal out of Lincoln, Illinois by the
28:41
Speaker 4: name of Fonda Robbins, so I contacted her. I sent
28:44
Speaker 4: her paperwork copies of everything I had, which I had
28:47
Speaker 4: done multiple times, you know, to different pro bono lawyers,
28:50
Speaker 4: different states. I went through years and years of doing that,
28:54
Speaker 4: and finally Fonda Robbins contacted me and I got blessed
29:00
Speaker 4: with the contact information to mister John Hanlin.
29:03
Speaker 2: He was our executive director. He's still working with us
29:06
Speaker 2: on cases, but he retired from the executive director role.
29:09
Speaker 4: Some months had went by, and all of a sudden,
29:11
Speaker 4: I got a call to go up to the visiting
29:13
Speaker 4: room which was a surprise to me. My visits with
29:17
Speaker 4: family were always planned because they live so far away.
29:20
Speaker 4: So I get up there, go through the whole strip
29:22
Speaker 4: search situation, get in there, and this man comes around
29:27
Speaker 4: the corner and he says, Jennifer, my name is John Hanlin,
29:30
Speaker 4: and I worked with the Illinois Innocence Project. We then
29:33
Speaker 4: went into a private room and as I turned the corner,
29:36
Speaker 4: I want to say, there was about six or seven
29:39
Speaker 4: people there, including students, supporters, and other attorneys there just
29:45
Speaker 4: to listen and to help.
29:46
Speaker 2: Finally, John started on her case and I joined the
29:50
Speaker 2: project about a year and a half later, and he
29:52
Speaker 2: brought me on to Jennifer's case and turn it over
29:55
Speaker 2: to me. So I started in twenty nineteen on her case.
29:58
Speaker 1: I mean, you got busy.
30:00
Speaker 2: We did, and you know, interestingly, we filed that DNA
30:03
Speaker 2: motion and actually were in court same day with the
30:07
Speaker 2: alternate suspect argued it right the day before the courts
30:10
Speaker 2: shut down with COVID to get evidence shipped out for
30:14
Speaker 2: DNA testing. So we get the DNA results April twenty
30:17
Speaker 2: twenty one, and that's the point where the state comes
30:20
Speaker 2: and offers Jennifer a plea deal.
30:23
Speaker 1: What did that look like.
30:24
Speaker 2: We expected that she would be exonerated, that they would say, look,
30:28
Speaker 2: we got it wrong, she needs to be released, and
30:30
Speaker 2: they said, no, we got it right. With Ken three
30:33
Speaker 2: juries convicted him. It didn't matter that they kept not
30:35
Speaker 2: hearing all the evidence, and so they said, but she's
30:38
Speaker 2: already spent way too long in prison. Even if she's
30:41
Speaker 2: guilty for what you know she was convicted of, it's
30:44
Speaker 2: been way too long. It was a harsh sentence. So
30:47
Speaker 2: if she will plead guilty to armed violence, which again
30:51
Speaker 2: she never participated in the crime, we'll let her out
30:54
Speaker 2: for time served. But if she resumes her post conviction
30:58
Speaker 2: litigation to prove her innocence, we will revoke her plea
31:02
Speaker 2: deal and she will be returned to prison, even though
31:05
Speaker 2: they've said she's already spent way too long in prison,
31:08
Speaker 2: and so she had this hard decision. So we told her,
31:12
Speaker 2: you can either take this deal and get out immediately,
31:15
Speaker 2: but you're going to have this Class X felony of
31:17
Speaker 2: armed violence on your record, or we're going to keep
31:21
Speaker 2: representing you and will file your successive post conviction petition
31:25
Speaker 2: and litigate your innocence. But you're going to be sitting
31:28
Speaker 2: in prison for at least another few years.
31:30
Speaker 1: It's like a Sophie's choice. Yeah, right.
31:32
Speaker 4: So I lost my mom eight years into my incarceration.
31:35
Speaker 4: I was actually released on her birthday. A big part
31:37
Speaker 4: of me taking the plea was being home to help
31:40
Speaker 4: my family. I had already saw my mother in a
31:43
Speaker 4: casket shackled from head to toe. About six years ago,
31:46
Speaker 4: my father was diagnosed with Alzheimer's dementia, and I wanted
31:52
Speaker 4: to make it home and for him to see me
31:54
Speaker 4: home before he didn't know.
31:56
Speaker 1: Who it was.
31:58
Speaker 3: So it was so thankful for that.
32:00
Speaker 4: Going to court that day was it was a hard decision.
32:04
Speaker 1: You know.
32:04
Speaker 3: At first, when I gave my.
32:05
Speaker 4: False confession, people would say, well, why would you do
32:08
Speaker 4: that if you really didn't commit this crime. You don't
32:11
Speaker 4: know what it feels like until you're going through it.
32:14
Speaker 4: And even now they said, well, why would you plead
32:17
Speaker 4: guilty to that charge if you're innocent, if you didn't
32:20
Speaker 4: commit this crime. Again, you don't know what it feels like.
32:24
Speaker 4: But going to court that day was it was hard
32:27
Speaker 4: at having to be guilty to something I didn't do.
32:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, as they're reading.
32:33
Speaker 4: You know the description of the crime and what went on,
32:36
Speaker 4: and my soul called roll. I just stood there and cried,
32:40
Speaker 4: you know, standing next to my lawyers.
32:42
Speaker 1: You accept this play. It's a bittersweet, obviously, but you're
32:46
Speaker 1: calling home.
32:47
Speaker 4: When I left from mckenry County, I was nineteen years old,
32:50
Speaker 4: going to prison, coming back to mckenry to get released,
32:53
Speaker 4: I was almost forty, and as I walked into the
32:56
Speaker 4: bullpins and entering, you know, the county jail, I had
33:01
Speaker 4: officers who became sergeants and lieutenants throughout the years that
33:04
Speaker 4: I was, you know, incarcerated, and they said, finally the
33:09
Speaker 4: truth is coming out and you guys are going home.
33:11
Speaker 4: Everybody all these years has known the truth, and you know,
33:16
Speaker 4: has known that you guys, you didn't commit this crime.
33:18
Speaker 1: I mean, we obviously wanted to see the day when
33:21
Speaker 1: the full exoneration comes to pass.
33:24
Speaker 2: Our only option now is clemency, which we filed and
33:27
Speaker 2: presented a clemency petition to the Prisoner Review Board in
33:31
Speaker 2: January on her behalf. Because that's not a legal proceeding.
33:35
Speaker 2: That is Jennifer's only way to be exonerated.
33:38
Speaker 1: A pardon, yes, and you ritually deserve one. So can
33:42
Speaker 1: people write somewhere.
33:43
Speaker 2: Write to Governor Pritzker, because we have, as I said,
33:46
Speaker 2: presented her clemency petition to the Prisoner Review Board and
33:50
Speaker 2: they will be making a recommendation, but he's the one
33:53
Speaker 2: who ultimately will make that decision.
33:55
Speaker 1: So we'll have like a sample letter in the episode description.
34:00
Speaker 1: Will make it easy for you. I know it sounds
34:01
Speaker 1: like what do I write? What do I write? Too,
34:03
Speaker 1: We're going to make it easy. Go to the episode
34:05
Speaker 1: description and we'll have everything you need to write a letter.
34:08
Speaker 1: And with that, now we turn to my favorite part
34:11
Speaker 1: of the show, which is called closing arguments, and it
34:14
Speaker 1: works like this. First of all, I thank you both
34:17
Speaker 1: once again, and I now have the privilege of just
34:20
Speaker 1: listening to anything else you want to say.
34:23
Speaker 2: First of all, just I want to thank you so
34:25
Speaker 2: much Jason for asking us here and highlighting Jennifer's story.
34:29
Speaker 2: You know, it's a privilege for us to get to
34:31
Speaker 2: share her story. You know, one thing I'd like to
34:34
Speaker 2: say is when these wrongful convictions happen. You know, as
34:37
Speaker 2: we take on these cases, we're very cognizant of the
34:40
Speaker 2: fact that you have someone who is a victim of
34:43
Speaker 2: a crime. Before we take on a case, we do
34:46
Speaker 2: so much investigation and testing to make sure because what
34:50
Speaker 2: happens when someone's wrongfully convicted, You now have another victim
34:53
Speaker 2: of a crime, and the original victim never got true
34:56
Speaker 2: justice because the real perpetrators are still out there and
34:59
Speaker 2: often committing other crimes. And so it's really important that
35:03
Speaker 2: we represent these people that are wrongfully convicted, and I
35:07
Speaker 2: want victims of crimes to understand that's what we're doing.
35:11
Speaker 2: We are not trying to get perpetrators out of jail.
35:14
Speaker 5: She was a.
35:14
Speaker 2: Victim herself and we want justice, and real justice is
35:18
Speaker 2: getting the true perpetrators in crime and getting innocent people
35:21
Speaker 2: out of prison.
35:23
Speaker 4: Jennifer, it's an honor to be here. I want to
35:27
Speaker 4: thank everybody tremendously for the work that you do, all
35:30
Speaker 4: the innocence projects around the world, because if it wasn't.
35:34
Speaker 3: For you guys, we wouldn't be here. And all the
35:36
Speaker 3: hard work that you do.
35:37
Speaker 4: Been a long journey, good days, bad days, but I'm
35:41
Speaker 4: here taking it one day at a time, and I
35:44
Speaker 4: just appreciate life so much more. And if there was
35:46
Speaker 4: one thing that I could tell everybody's it can happen
35:50
Speaker 4: to anybody, and it happens more than people know I
35:53
Speaker 4: met people every day, you know, where different things went
35:56
Speaker 4: on in their case and they just didn't have the
35:58
Speaker 4: strength to fight, you know. But I knew that I
36:01
Speaker 4: had to keep on fighting. Another big thing is know
36:04
Speaker 4: your rights when it comes to interrogations. Lawyers, Miranda wrights, you.
36:10
Speaker 3: Know, get the knowledge behind it.
36:11
Speaker 4: I know that if I knew and I understood at
36:13
Speaker 4: a young age, I don't think that they would.
36:17
Speaker 1: Have went that far. Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction.
36:26
Speaker 1: You can listen to this and all the Lava for
36:28
Speaker 1: Good podcasts one week early by subscribing to Lava for
36:31
Speaker 1: Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. I want to thank our
36:34
Speaker 1: production team Connor Hall and Kathleen Fink, as well as
36:38
Speaker 1: my fellow executive producers Jeff Kempler, Kevin Wartis, and Jeff Cliburn.
36:42
Speaker 1: The music in this production was supplied by three time
36:44
Speaker 1: OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. Be sure to follow us
36:47
Speaker 1: across all social media platforms at Lava for Good and
36:50
Speaker 1: at Wrongful Conviction. You can also follow me on Instagram
36:54
Speaker 1: at It's Jason Flamm. Wrongful Conviction is a production of
36:57
Speaker 1: Lava for Good Podcasts and association with Signal company number
37:00
Speaker 1: one