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Transcript

Thick Skin & Soft Hearts · The Reformatory

0:00
[SPEAKER_04]: What do you got for me?
0:02
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do, but I don't know what to do
0:32
[SPEAKER_04]: As long as I'm not for me, we're going to have the benediction right there, that was so good.
0:36
[SPEAKER_02]: What's going on everyone and welcome to the Reformatory of the Podcast for the Luther Church and Bible of the Church?
0:42
[SPEAKER_02]: We are your local churchmen, my name is Josh and I'm here as always with the man that needeth no introduction, but we introduce him anyway.
0:52
[SPEAKER_02]: He is the captain.
0:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack Barry.
0:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, my friend, it is good to be with you.
0:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, we have one month of summer left.
1:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm almost there.
1:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm almost made it through.
1:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Dude, the Pacific Northwest, Pacific Northwest was teasing us so bad this morning.
1:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It was.
1:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It was it was down in Tacoma.
1:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It felt like it felt like an early fall day.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It was nice.
1:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It was it was about it was like kind of almost misty rainy Yep, my son got my son goes out and shorts and a t-shirt and like you need a sweatshirt on dude.
1:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it is not that Summary outside right now.
1:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Now it's like sweltering down here in comparison
1:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yep.
1:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's it's playing games with our emotions.
1:36
[SPEAKER_02]: It's what it's doing.
1:37
[SPEAKER_02]: But that's okay.
1:38
[SPEAKER_02]: That's okay.
1:38
[SPEAKER_02]: We're we're going to we're going to overcome and it's going to be great.
1:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack.
1:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I was in a golf tournament over the weekend.
1:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I was doing a charity event for police and firefighters down in Michael Tio and a business that that we do the we do service stuff with.
1:58
[SPEAKER_02]: In my day job, I was sponsored one of the holes and they needed a fourth guy for their best ball scramble and Called me up went down there.
2:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It was fun.
2:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It was long.
2:10
[SPEAKER_02]: I was I was on the course from about one to seven
2:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, it was, it was almost, it was almost like it was almost a full work day of golf.
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, great time, great time and a great, great cause, but yeah, it was, it was, it was a lot, but, but yeah, you know, it was fun.
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I got to figure out my slice, my slice is, it's an abomination.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: It's in a bomb and they're shankin' in and they're like, I got, well here's the worst part of my game.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: My short game in my pudding has been not bad.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I shot an 89 a week ago, which for me is crazy.
2:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That's pretty good.
2:50
[SPEAKER_02]: But I came home and immediately got on YouTube and I'm like, how to fix slice.
2:55
[SPEAKER_02]: So I've got like, whole bunch of new grip.
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I know it's, yeah, yeah.
2:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I know what I'm doing wrong.
3:00
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just figure out how to, how to make it right.
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: But,
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, a little announcement before we get into our Instagrams here.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Ladies and gentlemen, you know what, we've got coming up.
3:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the Pactum Conference.
3:12
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
3:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And yours truly, yours is truly.
3:19
[SPEAKER_02]: yours truly is is is is the plural I think are going to be there and you only to be there as well it's the first week of October and it is going to be a fantastic time the speaker line up is going to be great the sessions are going to be great but you know that's not why we go to conferences we go for the after party we go for the fellowship that is why we're here
3:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be honest, all right, no, in all honesty.
3:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be a great time.
3:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Reformatory is crashing the packed and party.
3:51
[SPEAKER_02]: And we want you to be there as well.
3:52
[SPEAKER_02]: We want you.
3:53
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to show up reformatory strong.
3:56
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to be in full, full regalia and full strength.
4:02
[SPEAKER_02]: at the Pactum Conference.
4:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And we can only do that if you guys show up to the cool thing about the Pactum Conference is that they are just like the reformatory and that they are local church focused.
4:13
[SPEAKER_02]: They're focused on equipping the individuals to be faithful church members.
4:18
[SPEAKER_02]: You see that reflected in the sessions.
4:21
[SPEAKER_02]: And you also see that reflected in the podcast as well.
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: And
4:28
[SPEAKER_02]: and Pactum has been really good to us at the reformatory.
4:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We consider them friends.
4:33
[SPEAKER_02]: And we hope that you are able to show up.
4:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And it do to super cheap.
4:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's, there's something really cool about the Pactum conference.
4:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the registration?
4:40
[SPEAKER_02]: It's the cheapest conference I've ever been.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you spend more out to dinner than you will, a ticket for the Pactum conference.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's not hyperbally.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: That is 100% true.
4:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I am not, that is not sarcasm.
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So make sure to get your tickets to the Pactum conference
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: October, Omaha, Nebraska, what more do you want?
5:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It's going to be, it's going to be amazing.
5:04
[SPEAKER_02]: My first time to, to Nebraska, never been got to get on a plane, which you know, I'm not looking forward to, but it's going to be worth it.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: And we want you guys to be there as well.
5:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So pack them conference, make sure to hit up the pack them and get registered.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to see our reformatory folks there and hang out with all of you guys because you know, we don't we don't really get to do that Because life is expensive, but here is a great opportunity and excuse to be able to actually make that happen.
5:34
[SPEAKER_02]: So
5:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Little plug for for the packed-em-conference looking forward to that greatly.
5:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, you know what time it is my friend at his time for everyone's favorite segment.
5:44
[SPEAKER_02]: Don't forget to eat here in St. Gramps.
6:03
[SPEAKER_02]: That says the Instagram.
6:05
[SPEAKER_02]: See and it's not heresy if you believe it hard enough That's how it works these days Jack and my friend boy howty.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got one.
6:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay I'm gonna let you choose.
6:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I've got one cringe and one pretty awesome Which one do you want first?
6:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got one that's gonna roll your eye to cringe first You okay, all right.
6:23
[SPEAKER_02]: We did a cringe out of the way Jack.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, this was actually one that you sent me And I found a video
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: covering this thing.
6:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I have to apologize to our listeners up front.
6:36
[SPEAKER_02]: This is not something that that we did.
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: This is the fault of the video.
6:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I apologize for the two CV.
6:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It is in the video.
6:43
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm giving us, I'm giving a content warning right now.
6:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but we absolutely had to share this with you all.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Christian energy drink guys.
6:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It's time for us to take back the energy drink sector This is the way that we're doing it guys.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: This is a way to take Jesus anywhere You're spreading the love of God through an energy drink.
6:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Look at that on the back it has if you declare with your mouth That Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart.
7:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I God raised him from the dead You will be saved.
7:05
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an excellent way to plant seeds in people guys that otherwise won't hear the gospel
7:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Grab a 12 pack put it in the fridge at work now everyone that opens up fridge it your job is gonna see these energy drinks guys That's planning a seed.
7:17
[SPEAKER_00]: This is an excellent way to plant seeds with people that you otherwise wouldn't be able to plant seeds guys
7:24
[SPEAKER_02]: If he says plant seeds one more time, I'm putting my fist or just alienate people for that matter.
7:33
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, exactly.
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So for our audio only listeners, which on this one, it's it's I wish I was an audio only listener for this one.
7:42
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a can.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an energy drink can a brightly colored energy drink can.
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the name of the energy drink is Yahweh.
7:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Yahweh.
7:53
[SPEAKER_02]: Yahweh.
7:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, and the tagline is take him anywhere.
8:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is a Christian Oriel Jesus with with a very yes with Kenny Rogers or Kenny logins Kenny logins Jesus Big and bold on the front yeah looking like that do you remember Mars Hill in Seattle when they had the big
8:19
[SPEAKER_02]: the big, uh, Jesus face right when you walked in to the atrium.
8:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you remember that?
8:24
[SPEAKER_01]: And he had the crown of thorns on and I don't know if I've ever seen that.
8:27
[SPEAKER_02]: I went to Mars Hill once to listen to Alistair, big preach and you walked through the doors and you were greeted out with like with with with the face of Jesus, like bleeding from the crown of this is what that reminds me of.
8:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just right.
8:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
8:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
8:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Dude, I don't want this, like, I don't want you to let out Jesus.
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, one, yeah, yeah.
8:50
[SPEAKER_02]: One, like, I just, I don't like the, let's take an inanimate soulless object and call it Christian for one.
8:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, energy drinks can't be dangerous.
9:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And two, and then take it.
9:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.
9:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And then thinking that,
9:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Somehow this is a seed that's going to plant.
9:07
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like guys.
9:08
[SPEAKER_01]: This is a can Nobody's taking.
9:11
[SPEAKER_02]: I have never been shoving down a Red Bull Britser and thought man.
9:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I wish I could do this as like for the Lord.
9:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Like I wish I wish this energy drink was Christian Yeah, no, this is this is this is horrible.
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: This is awful.
9:25
[SPEAKER_02]: This is what's weird about modern-day evangelicalism.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: We need to stop doing this so I am I will say
9:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm interested to know what they taste like.
9:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I do, like if I ever come across a can.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I might have to pick one up.
9:43
[SPEAKER_02]: The first thing that I'm doing is tearing the label right off.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: So I don't have to stare at Jared, Jared, let him.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Kenny Loggins, Jesus.
9:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Jesus.
9:51
[SPEAKER_02]: As I'm planting a seed in myself, apparently, of energy.
9:54
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
9:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So much wrong with that.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We need a pallet cleanser, literally from that, from that video, Jack.
10:02
[SPEAKER_02]: This came across my feed.
10:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I just had this guy has taken
10:09
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, you know, like prosperity preachers, right?
10:11
[SPEAKER_02]: When they really start going, right?
10:12
[SPEAKER_02]: They hit what the kids call the flow state.
10:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're just asking for money, asking for blessing, you know, they'll start shouting, they'll start repeating themselves, tongs get thrown out, right?
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: This guy has taken a list of the compilation of those.
10:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And he has, he films himself playing heavy metal guitar over them.
10:35
[SPEAKER_03]: Dude, okay.
10:36
[SPEAKER_03]: It's awesome.
10:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh my gosh.
10:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Check this.
10:39
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
11:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought that was the end, that guy, that guy needs to practice, it's kind of a little bit.
12:04
[SPEAKER_02]: It's sounding like my Lebanese, like, relatives over in the Middle East.
12:13
[SPEAKER_02]: But dude, is that opening riff?
12:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Not absolutely, yeah, that sounds like a nine inch swirls like corn or something.
12:18
[SPEAKER_03]: $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $100,000 to $
12:30
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so good.
12:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so good.
12:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I I had that.
12:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's awesome.
12:35
[SPEAKER_01]: Hollow White is so cringe.
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, she's just little kids are gonna be dying.
12:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, yes, if you don't get ready.
12:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Little kids, you hate children.
12:44
[SPEAKER_02]: If you do not give us money right now, you hate buck wild.
12:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, my gosh, Jack.
12:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Oh, so good.
12:56
[SPEAKER_02]: So good.
12:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Jack, what are we talking about today?
12:58
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about, oh, that's right.
12:59
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about the importance within the local church of having a tender heart, right?
13:08
[SPEAKER_02]: A kind heart, but also very thick skin, thick skin and a tender heart to the importance of having that especially if you are in local church leadership, because I don't know if you're aware of it listeners,
13:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I'm not going to say it's the hardest job.
13:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It'd be like here's thing.
13:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't like the pastors that come on be like Be like people don't understand How hard being a pastor and here's the thing.
13:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Here's the thing.
13:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna caveat this, right?
13:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I want there to be about yeah Is it the hardest job of the six exists?
13:40
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it's not is it easy?
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not right now.
13:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm I'm Right in the middle because I yeah definitely gone through some very very difficult things But there are you know, there are there are there are harder jobs, right?
13:53
[SPEAKER_02]: However
13:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I do think being a pastoral ministry is a very unique job.
13:59
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a very unique calling because of the things that the Lord calls you to be and to do in those things that the vast majority of other jobs you don't really have to deal with, right?
14:13
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't have the luxury within pastoral ministry of ignoring relational difficulty.
14:21
[SPEAKER_02]: because I know that that's going to affect my ability to past or somebody well.
14:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Whereas in the job, if I'm annoying with somebody, I don't like somebody.
14:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't really care.
14:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, like, I don't, I don't need to deal with them.
14:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm not going to bring it home.
14:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You bring everything home.
14:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, in in local church ministry.
14:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
14:43
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just how it is.
14:44
[SPEAKER_02]: So,
14:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And because of that, there is a great danger of becoming calist toward the people that you serve, right, and losing the tenderness, the kindness and the gentleness that I think
15:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But I think there is also on the other side a danger of
15:21
[SPEAKER_02]: allowing the difficulties to affect you in a negative way, allowing the relational strains that can often happen, the difficult things that are said about you more than often, not ever to your face, which is very ironic.
15:40
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a great danger of those things to use our,
15:46
[SPEAKER_02]: to use our instant gram analogy plant seeds that grow into I would say depression, grief, frustration, bitterness, bitterness, anger, all of the things.
16:04
[SPEAKER_02]: So there's a balance within ministry, whether you're a pastor or not, I think it's a good thing to have as deacons as members, but especially those that are in pastoral ministry, that you need a thick skin and you need a soft heart.
16:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think the balance between those two
16:35
[SPEAKER_02]: at first glance they are they are opposite of each other right is is you want you want you want really thick armor so that you're not going to be you know hurt or damaged but you also want to be very tender and kind to those that are in need of it and uh
16:52
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a it's a difficult balance to strike, but it is something that is I think very, very important, especially Jack and then I'll throw this over to you, especially if you want any amount of longevity in ministry.
17:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's something that I realized really early on, that if I was going to last in this calling, if I was going to last doing this thing, that I genuinely love.
17:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I love doing it's my favorite thing.
17:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I realized very quickly that my skin was way too thin, and my heart was not soft enough.
17:27
[SPEAKER_02]: that I had that equation backwards, that I allowed things to get to me that should not have gotten to me.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was not a sensitive to other things that I should have been.
17:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that comes with time and that comes with maturity.
17:44
[SPEAKER_02]: And sadly, I don't know about sadly, but I think the difficult truth is
17:52
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't really get thick skin and a soft heart without the Lord putting you in places and situations where that is cultivated in your life, right?
18:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
18:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, honestly, like we're kind of living in a moment where I think it's all bravado
18:16
[SPEAKER_01]: on the gas no breaks right now.
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you look at the amount of content that's coming out in like Christians, I would say more reformed-ish circles.
18:28
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like books like, Gosh, what is it?
18:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Like masculine or muscular Christianity.
18:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Must write.
18:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I did see that come across that I laughed at that.
18:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Muscular Christianity is just such a great title.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Or books like obscene Christianity.
18:47
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
18:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, offensive Christianity.
18:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, offensive Christianity or just like stuff that's like very much like upfront like and I think it's just I think this is just the pendulum swing that we're seeing where so many years I think that maybe evangelicalism has tilted in more of this very secret sensitive kind of
19:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Laurel Paris Jesus kind of come to him and be forgiven kind of stuff where it's it should be both like like repent and belief like there is a balance even in what we're talking about like repentance is like very much coming against your flesh belief okay there's a little bit more compassion and understanding there so I would say yeah there's even some of our culture right now
19:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Being vulgar, being out there, being just full court press all the time, you know, if you're constantly yelling in your sermons, I don't, I mean, you're gonna lose people.
20:03
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just gonna say that right now.
20:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Like if you're constantly yelling at them, there's a difference between excitement and yelling and treating people like people and treating people like kids.
20:15
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think there's you have to strike that balance sometimes and I would say over the years I have found it way more especially becoming a father.
20:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know, I just kind of have lost the whole, I don't know why it's desirable to just yell at people with sermon when it's like, I can hear you from here, man, like, you've got a mic on for crying out loud.
20:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you're just trying to drive the disobedience out of people or you're trying to get your point across more, but yeah, there's, you can tell a lot from preachers and pastors who are really,
20:51
[SPEAKER_01]: they want to be tough all the time 100% because I feel like they've gotten burnt out with the whole being kind and compassionate and tendered or towards people.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So, or it's just a whole stick like they're very tough in the pulpit and then they get out of it.
21:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like, well, the cameras learn on me anymore, so I can kind of act in a different way.
21:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but I think it's very important that you kind of have this balance.
21:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you see this balance all the time in Jesus.
21:23
[SPEAKER_01]: where he's very tough with the religious leaders, very confrontational with them.
21:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, let's be honest, those religious leaders were selling the people of Israel like terrible bills of goods.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, horrid teachings, terrible stuff that really didn't get the people anywhere closer to God, just a lot of law and no gospel, which we talk a lot about here as well, too.
21:51
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so, yeah, I think as a pastor, you need to balance that out too, like there needs to be law and gospel displayed in your life and what does that look like and some of it is not taking any guess when people act like jerks, but also understanding there's a time where you need to be kind and compassionate and,
22:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You need to talk to people in ways in which that shows.
22:21
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think there's a conflation, we're having orthopraxy-wise when it comes to that.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah.
22:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
22:34
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think you're right.
22:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it is a pendulum swing.
22:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I think our culture is obsessed with, you know, non-confrontation and being soft and being, you know, all of these things.
22:46
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think there's a lot of issues when it comes to, you know, masculinity in our, in our, in our context, yeah, legitimately being being, you know,
22:58
[SPEAKER_02]: you know, under attack and being changed in terms of his definitions, but I think it's I see a lot of immature reactions to that, like you've already said, is well, the, you know,
23:10
[SPEAKER_02]: The going narrative is I need to look this way and dress this way and believe these things.
23:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So I'm going to go the exact opposite and then then they'll know that I'm actually masculine.
23:19
[SPEAKER_02]: That's not what masculinity is, right?
23:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And when we're talking about having thick skin, that's not what we're talking about.
23:24
[SPEAKER_02]: The vast, like that's, you're going to have critiques come up against you either way, right?
23:34
[SPEAKER_02]: If you are in,
23:36
[SPEAKER_02]: If you're in any type of leadership within the local church, it's not a question of if but when.
23:43
[SPEAKER_02]: thick skin does not look like not caring what people think, you know, being loud and abrasive but, you know, behind the pulpit, giving a, you know, I don't give a, you know, horses rear end about the opinions and this, you know, I'm gonna, you know, make my own path be the captain of my own ship, all of these things.
24:05
[SPEAKER_02]: That's what the, that's a worldly
24:08
[SPEAKER_02]: misunderstanding of what masculinity is because that's the masculinity that's I think a lot of people kind of you know grew up seeing in the old westerns and things like that, which is, you know, where we take a lot of a lot of cues from as I think media and upbringing.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: What I have found is that the thing that creates both the thick skin and the soft heart that I think pastors need as well as members and decans need is being secure and who you're in Christ.
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that really is the root of it and that it's not all of these outward things that you do or that you don't do that make someone masculine or feminine or give someone thick
24:52
[SPEAKER_02]: understanding who Jesus is and it's understanding who Jesus has made you and what he has called you to do because you're going to run into times where you are critiqued, where you are maligned, where you are slandered by people in your own church and that has a very particular
25:19
[SPEAKER_02]: to, you know, seep its way into your heart and into your soul, or you can be confident in who Jesus is, who he has made you, and consider the source.
25:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a big thing that, you know, I will encourage guys to do too is, you know, they'll, I'll, I'll sit with the guys and, you know, they, and look, I've been on the receiving end of this.
25:41
[SPEAKER_02]: This is advice that I've been given, and I think it's really good advice.
25:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, so-and-so said this, and they said this, and they said this, and it's like, okay, all right.
25:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's not that we, it's not that we ever just disregard the things that are said.
25:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But part of how we evaluate is this something that has merit, right?
25:57
[SPEAKER_02]: One of the ways that we do that is that we consider the source.
26:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Who is the person that has said this?
26:03
[SPEAKER_02]: What is the character of that person?
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that person known to be a truth teller or is that person known to cause
26:13
[SPEAKER_02]: That needs to be part of the discussion, right?
26:18
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's where that thick skin comes in is when we face difficult times, we're not rattled, right, buy it, because we're secure in
26:30
[SPEAKER_02]: our identity in Christ.
26:32
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, and that's very fresh in my head right now.
26:34
[SPEAKER_02]: I just I did a pulpit fill up and billing him last week and I preached on having an identity in Christ.
26:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's amazing how applicable that truth is across like the spectrum of our lives is.
26:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you secure, not in your accomplishments, not in your personality, not in people's favor of you, but are you secure in who Jesus is and who he says you are?
27:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you are, that's the thickest armor that you can have because no amount of earthly opinions are going to be able to strip that armor off of you.
27:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And when you're able to be secure in Christ, not only will your skin be thick and you'll be able to take those difficult times.
27:22
[SPEAKER_02]: that that can match you, but you're also able to have a soft heart because you not you out of that identity come strength, but also compassion, just like you already said.
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think that is where a lot of the guys that I see that I think are going about trying to foster or show or, you know, display their their thick skin in very superficial ways.
27:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you lose the ability to be effective with people when they are in need of compassion.
27:56
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're gonna be very unapproachable.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you're gonna be, you're not gonna be able to be rattled because you're gonna be the loudest and quote unquote toughest person in the room.
28:06
[SPEAKER_02]: But when it comes to actually caring for people,
28:10
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be difficult because that soft heart isn't there and I really think that that's something that especially pastors
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's really good for us to have and I think it's really hard to get that because like I said at the top, it does require that you go through things that cultivate that in you and, you know, the Lord continues to put me in situations where I need to display a soft heart or I need to have a thick skin because the sad truth is some of the nastiest people.
28:50
[SPEAKER_02]: can be the ones that go to your church.
28:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And that's tough.
28:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That's really ugly, tough.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say, um, I have the spiritual discipline.
28:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I have been told of having a good poker face.
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, there you go.
29:03
[SPEAKER_03]: Um, spiritual discipline, a poker face.
29:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if you say discipline or we need a sure lesson or a gift.
29:12
[SPEAKER_02]: My spiritual gift is a poker face.
29:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, because my passers have been like, man, you really, you just don't show a lot of emotion.
29:21
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack.
29:23
[SPEAKER_01]: And, and sometimes, you know, that can be an advantage and sometimes that can be a disadvantage.
29:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's when to employ that, like letting your guard down a little bit.
29:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
29:35
[SPEAKER_01]: You need, you just need kind of like prayerful understanding of when you can do that and when you can't do that.
29:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Because when you can do that, it ministers to people and it helps them.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Right.
29:46
[SPEAKER_01]: When you, when you can't do that,
29:49
[SPEAKER_01]: It's I'm always joking and I always the person that's kind of buddy buddy with everybody and not going to be able to feel these really tough questions or even field a really difficult life stage and so yeah I think that that's important to like no I think
30:15
[SPEAKER_01]: I think a lot of people have just said, here's my, here's my tough, you know, my thick skin, that's going to be on all the time.
30:24
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure, versus there are times where you can turn that down, and there's times where you can turn that right back, turn that off and on again.
30:33
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I think it's just an important thing, I think there's people that say, well, my thick skin is just, I'm just not going to care what people think.
30:41
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think that's the correct definition.
30:45
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, I think it's good not to have an over-emphasis on carrying what people think.
30:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But just to completely disregard people's opinions about you or things that they say about you, just across the board, I don't think that's healthy.
30:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Because now you're just setting yourself up on island as the only authority and you're calling it, developing my thick skin.
31:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yeah, that's not I don't think that's very helpful.
31:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So, but yeah, I think that a lot of people like I said, there's that I think a lot of people who just pendulum swing from I think we've.
31:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Even I saw like a this is quite interesting, but I saw Jared Wilson talking about What he wishes they would teach you in seminary and he said just the just the pastoral qualifications of a pastor to be quite honest.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, because some of y'all I'm sorry, but It ain't any happened and it ain't gonna happen and some of you all
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: you're tougher on yourself.
31:55
[SPEAKER_01]: It's kind of like this massacistic kind of thing, or maybe you're not just telling people like what's on your mind and heart too.
32:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
32:05
[SPEAKER_01]: So like there's maybe you're wanting to preach more.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like then tell people about that.
32:11
[SPEAKER_01]: Tell them about like, hey, I'm really,
32:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm finding these difficult emotions within me of wanting to preach but not getting the reps to do it.
32:20
[SPEAKER_01]: How can I go about doing that?
32:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And then ask, start asking people about, like, how do you balance that out?
32:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, where there's maybe some possible ways that I can start preaching or maybe, but you also have to, like, look at the life stage that you're in and
32:42
[SPEAKER_01]: five, six times a year, maybe even 10 times a year.
32:47
[SPEAKER_01]: I would have to evaluate that.
32:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see myself preaching.
32:51
[SPEAKER_01]: I could see myself preaching a handful of times a year and that being okay.
32:56
[SPEAKER_01]: But to preach more than that, I think would be somewhat difficult in the family stages that I'm in right now with two kids under three years old.
33:08
[SPEAKER_01]: So, for sure.
33:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But, yeah, just, you gotta be, and let's be honest, I don't think that we've done
33:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think culture has done a better job of how men express themselves than the church has.
33:26
[SPEAKER_01]: Because if you look at this, this is something I thought about yesterday.
33:30
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
33:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Just look at Yacht Rock.
33:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm really, I'm using a really obscure example of what we're going with it.
33:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Y'all rock.
33:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Let me play this out.
33:41
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
33:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll hang with you.
33:44
[SPEAKER_01]: If you listen to any type of yacht rocks on, okay.
33:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's guys.
33:50
[SPEAKER_01]: It's guys talking about why they lost their girl, why they can't get her back, why my life sucks, like this is happening.
34:00
[SPEAKER_01]: All of that stuff is through a song, Josh.
34:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's true.
34:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's that happening?
34:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Where's that happening?
34:06
[SPEAKER_01]: How was that being communicated in your local church then to your leaders?
34:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Because I don't think it's happening.
34:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
34:13
[SPEAKER_01]: If you can't, if a song can do better ways of communicating your problems to culture, then you can to people in your local church or your pastors.
34:24
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's a huge issue right there.
34:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's why the yawster just the saddest places.
34:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're just the saddest places ever, but no, I do understand your point.
34:39
[SPEAKER_02]: I think we need to, like if we're going to cultivate, I think.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: a correct understanding of what having thick skin looks like what having a soft heart looks like we do need to be better at communicating we need to communicate the things that are like are actually hurtful or be able to communicate with one another you know you're letting that affect you a lot more than I think you should.
35:05
[SPEAKER_02]: uh... because either you know the person that said it it doesn't know you so don't yet hold in high regard the opinions of people that don't know you or you know what they said it's just blatantly false and and it's just that's just not who you are that's not who you know we know you to be um... so there there has to be room for both right but i think through that process either one of those
35:30
[SPEAKER_02]: The answer is not just some superficial understanding of what it means to be tough or what it means to have thick skin.
35:37
[SPEAKER_02]: It's be confident in who Jesus has made you to be.
35:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Be confident in the promises that he has made you.
35:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And the ways that he sustains you in the role that he has called you to do.
35:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you can have that, if you can have confidence knowing, I'm here because Christ has put me here and he is the one that sustains me and you're going to him for your identity and him for your strength, then yeah, like your armor will be impenetrable because it's glancing off not some superficial stronghold that you have built, but it's glancing off the promises of Christ.
36:16
[SPEAKER_02]: And then in turn that gives you the ability to be a great resource for those that truly need help, right?
36:24
[SPEAKER_02]: And you're able to discern, right?
36:27
[SPEAKER_02]: And then and and and and see, okay, this person that's saying this thing about me, you're able to discern whether that is a real, you know, it is you're able to
36:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Or like, yeah, no, actually they have a point like I did, I did say that or I did do that that that was wrong.
36:54
[SPEAKER_02]: That was insensitive of me.
36:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I shouldn't have responded in that way.
36:57
[SPEAKER_02]: And then you can have a soft heart, right?
36:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You can't have so, yeah, quote unquote, think of skin that you refuse to acknowledge the times where you were wrong.
37:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And the accusations, you know, or the things brought to you do have some merit.
37:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, that's where having that rooted in Christ gives us the ability to do both.
37:19
[SPEAKER_02]: So pastors, thick skin, soft hearts, it's rooted in Christ.
37:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in who Christ is.
37:25
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in the promises that he has made.
37:26
[SPEAKER_02]: It's in his sustaining of you.
37:29
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not some superficial bravado.
37:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Or some bleeding heart syndrome, you know, the way you just, you just want to be, you know, open up to, to everyone's problems and, you know, I'm a, you know, like, like, like, I want to empathize with everyone and everything and that's not healthy either, right?
37:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And you have to have, we have to have balance because one, you'll be hardheaded and a jerk and not easy to get along with.
37:53
[SPEAKER_02]: And the other one, you're just going to be this to stop here, push a pressed person, push over, right?
37:59
[SPEAKER_03]: And both make horrible pastures.
38:03
[SPEAKER_02]: You don't want to be either of us, so yeah, fixed skin softarts and the body is helped when passed and emulate both rooted in the personal place.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Jack anything else before you get us out of here.
38:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Nope.
38:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's all she wrote.
38:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So send it Ladies and gentlemen, if you appreciate Josh and I is focused on the local church How to not be a pushover.
38:34
[SPEAKER_01]: This is our book title Josh.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: How will not be a pushover?
38:39
[SPEAKER_01]: or a jerk by Josh and Jack as pastors as pastors as pastors we had to the bone bay and I'm sorry now
38:50
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39:02
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39:04
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39:17
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39:20
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39:21
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39:27
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39:34
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
39:34
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39:37
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40:09
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