Latest / The Overland Journal Podcast / Ron Moon on His Love for Australia, and Traveling the Globe

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Ron Moon on His Love for Australia, and Traveling the Globe · The Overland Journal Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I am here with an Australian legend,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Ron Moon. And Ron has an incredible history. Not only
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: did he have a full career in the Australian Army,
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: but then he retired and he started writing guide books
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: and he started working for the Australian full drive magazine industry.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: He's been an editor of several magazines in Australia. He's
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: also reduced countless books and guidebooks, had his own publishing
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: company works closely with Hima Maps. Not only that, but
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: his travel exploits are also very notable. So Ron and
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: his wife viv have traveled around the world. They've circumnavigated
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: the planet, They've been to multiple continents in their vehicles,
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about Ron's experience, his decades
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: of traveling around the world, things that he's learned. And Ron,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: thank you so much for being on the podcast today.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well thanks, it's great to be here.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, oh yeah, oh, it's such a pleasure. And
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: you've written for Overland Journal for well over a decade
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: as well, on and off, which we're so grateful for.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: So for those that are listening. You can find some
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: of Ron's adventure stories in the magazine as well. But
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: I'd love to start by asking you a few questions
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: of kind of how the beginning of your life started.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Where did you grow up in Australia, What did you
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: what first inspired you about the outback?
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I was born in the outback. I was
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: born in ten and Creek in the Northern Territory, Okay,
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: and we moved down to Corn and the Flinders Ranges,
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Okay early on, and that's where I grew up as
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: a young kid, going out rabbit trapping and then with
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: a single shot twenty two and all that sort of
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: stuff with my brothers and then yeah, yeah, that's where
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: the love of that is it country comes in and
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I think that still puts my soul.
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I would say that these I've not been to
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the Kimberly yet, but the Flinders is one of my
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: most favorite parts of Australia. There's just something about that
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: range where it's not been weathered quite as much as
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: the rest of the continent where it's endured. You know,
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: the hardness of those rocks and just some of those
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: canyons are absolutely Donning. So what a neat place to
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: grow up.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah it was, And yeah, can I get any argument
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: with me about there's comments and you probably won't get
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: an unbossed point of view from me about the Flinder's Ranges.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: But it's amazing how those places can just kind of
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: stick with you.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure, going in a couple of weeks time,
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I'll be back and I was the first place we'll
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: be camping is in the Flinder's Ranges. As we had
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: to do a trip through the desert country.
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: And as I remember, there is an outpost there. Is
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: that the Parentchilla Hotel?
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Is that the Parachuna Hotel? Feral food?
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, I went through there with my dad
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  Speaker 1: years ago, and you and I had been there before,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: and I remembered that you could get you know, crocodile
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: and and eat it, eat an emu and everything. So
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: it was just I remember taking my dad out to
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: dinner there and the plate comes out and it's got
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: a bunch of little flags stuck in the meat. You know,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: this is crocodile, and this is camel, and this is
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: emu and this is you know, kangaroo and everything.
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  Speaker 2: So the people who owned that property on one of
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: the number of the shape stations around the place. Okay, ranch,
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: they've made a real success out of that Childna hotel.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: They have, and it's a great little spot to stay.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: And you know, you've been on the dusty track for
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: days or weeks sometimes at a time. It's a neat,
• 3:12
  Speaker 1: neat spot to stay. But I can see why you
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: enjoyed the Flinders so much, because it really is amazing.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: And then what did you would you say were some
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: of the things as a kid that really inspired you
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  Speaker 1: to not only want to travel by vehicle, but to
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: travel at all.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think my dad was a bit of
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: a travelers of a dark side, which we only found
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: out a few years ago Infacted two thousand, thousand and
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: one and found we had two brothers in America. Okay,
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  Speaker 2: so yeah, so you know, a lot of the truth
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: came out. Then my dad died many years ago. But
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: he was a traveler, sure, and I just wanted to
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: settle down for a couple of years. Then he picked
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: mom up and off we'd go, Yes, sure, somewhere else.
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  Speaker 2: And I got that love of traveling and I can
• 3:52
  Speaker 2: always remember going out with him on the Wallackra Plains
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  Speaker 2: more than anything, just on the east side of the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Flinders Ranges and traveling with him through there and shooting
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: bunny rabbits and that they were the things that stuck
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: with me. Joined the Army when I was fifteen or
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: nearly sixteen.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: That's very young. Is that something that they allow? Is
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: it like a part of your education at that point
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: or how does that work?
• 4:14
  Speaker 2: It was? It was in those days as an army
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: apprentice when he's an army apprentice and became an electrician
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: working on gun control systems and stuff like that later
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: on in my army career. But so yeah, so you know,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: I started driving land rovers in about sixty seven and
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: got posted a woman they've guided weapons area and there's
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: a lot of Americans up there at the time, just
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: finishing off launching some of the misile systems, and of
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: course we ran around in land rovers all the time
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: and took every opportunity to go out find some crashed
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: aircraft or whatever it was.
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and you.
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  Speaker 2: End up doing cross country and that's where I really
• 4:50
  Speaker 2: fell in love with full driving and doing cross country
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: on a compass bearing and all that sort of stuff.
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  Speaker 1: No tracks in Australia is just praying for that. It's
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: so incredible. I'm not going to get too far from
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: that last comment that you made about having two brothers
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: in America, because it's fascinated. Have you met them? Have
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: you have you spent time with them?
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, in fact, both of them are fairly high
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: profile people, and one was in charge of the American
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: literally Board for Schools in America for a long time,
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: and the other became vice president of Northwest American Airlines
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: and then quit very early. Well, his real love of
• 5:22
  Speaker 2: looking for American mi I as World War two MIAs
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: around the world. Wow, and he was. His group was
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: called MIA Hunters and it was declared by the American
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: government's the most successful MIA group. Wow. I joined him
• 5:36
  Speaker 2: on a couple of expeditions. I've had a really big
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: one in New Guinea where he had a number in
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: New Guinea. I joined him for the last one, as
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: it turned out, and that was a month long expedition.
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: And for aircraft were you were you able to find
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: any of that?
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  Speaker 2: Well, he had a number of scouts working for him,
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: local scouts, and they would get the rough idea of
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: where the aircraft was. We would go in take photographs
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: and GPS at that sort of stuff, and we would
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: find a serial number on that aircraft.
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: Whether it was a machine gun or an engine, anything
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  Speaker 1: that helps pay it back.
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  Speaker 2: And then my brother had the contacts in the MIA
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: unit in y Wow, and he would bring them up
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  Speaker 2: and go, well, list, we've got this aircraft. This is
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: a serial number of a machine gun. What is it?
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  Speaker 2: And they would come back within twenty four hours and say, yes,
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: we know about that aircraft. They were all rescued or whatever. Sure,
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: and then the ones they didn't know about, we would
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: do a little bit more of a search, see if
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: we could get on tags like that, and we would
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  Speaker 2: record the site fairly thoroughly and then hand all that
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: information over to MIA unity WHI in that states. They
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: would have names and sure if seven people were missing
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  Speaker 2: all there were some incredible stories that came out of it.
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  Speaker 2: Because of my background. My brother hired we hired a
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  Speaker 2: couple of land cruisers up there, and I was designated
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  Speaker 2: the official driver. I got away with the easy thing.
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  Speaker 2: But the funny thing about that was the recovery gear.
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  Speaker 2: There's no recovery gear these venows. But everywhere you went
• 7:01
  Speaker 2: and come across a whole pile of locals. In fact,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: we will giving them lifts all the time. Yeah, have
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: twenty people on board the back of the year. You know,
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: we take them in the main road or whatever. We
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: got bogged, they just get out and all lifted up,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: push or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: Perfect.
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  Speaker 2: It was a fabulous experience.
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  Speaker 1: What was the what was the most meaningful outcome from
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  Speaker 1: that experience with your brother?
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  Speaker 2: He went into one village and the aides had been
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  Speaker 2: working for two years and the chief will not let
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: let anybody into this site. So he said he wants
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: to see the boss man Brian. So Brian went in
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: to see him, and course a couple of us along
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  Speaker 2: with it. The old chief he said, when I was
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  Speaker 2: a boy at seven, there was a dog fight going
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  Speaker 2: on above our and American aircraft got shot down. And
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  Speaker 2: he said, when I was sixteen, I wrote a letter
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  Speaker 2: to people who concerned lost your son, don't work after him?
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  Speaker 2: He said, I didn't know who decend it to hold
• 7:49
  Speaker 2: it out and send give it to you.
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  Speaker 1: Oh wow, it kept it that all that time. That's incredible.
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  Speaker 2: And so then he got his grandson to lead us
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  Speaker 2: in into the wrecked aircraft. Wow, still had the American
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: signature on the plane and all stuff. So yeah, so
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  Speaker 2: that was that was one of a number of exploits
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: and lines that we found.
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  Speaker 1: It just fabulous and what an incredible thing to do
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  Speaker 1: with your brother. Yeah, oh yeah, and you didn't even
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: know you had I mean, that's a fascinating story. That
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  Speaker 1: is just so cool.
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  Speaker 2: It was just unbelievable and it was so good that
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: it worked out so well.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sometimes you never know. Yeah, you never know absolutely.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, geez, that's incredible. And then so you were
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: at fifteen, you joined the army and did they ship
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: you off? I mean, were you gone?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you know, I joined the army and became an
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: electronics technician and then I became got sconda to the
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: British Army. This was during the height of the Vietnam
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: War and nearly every one of my classmates went to Vietnam.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I was one of one hundred and forty because I
• 8:48
  Speaker 2: was sconda to the secret British unit and doing weapons
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: testing up in Woman And like I said, that was
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: when we British Army had this thing called adventure training.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: She didn't have to carry a gun or a backpack
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: with you, but you are a vehicle and go out
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: camping things like this. They just wanted you to be
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: in the bush right and learning skills, learning those bush skills,
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: and I thought fantastic idea.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Signed me up. Yeah for sure.
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  Speaker 2: So I became a bit of an expert in that
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: over there all the rest of my career.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, You've done a lot of that sort of stuff.
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: And one of one of the best things was nineteen
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: seventy six he led an expedition out into remote country
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: in South Australia, that group of palaeontologists and biologists from
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: the Australian National and during that tread and cross country
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: remote salt lakes looking for dinosaur bones and all this
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff. I just loved it, no question. Yeah,
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: that was That was love.
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know, it's interesting the times that I've
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: been to Australia as a veteran myself interacting with the
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: Australian vets. I was in Melbourne Foranzact Day and I
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: walked down the street from the hotel to a small
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: memorial and that happened to be a World War Two memorial.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: But the number of veterans that were there and then
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: approached me and they asked if I was a veteran.
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: I said, I am, I said, but I'm from America,
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: and it really touched them that I was there. And
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: then to go to the memorial in Melbourne, the big one,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and to see I was walking because it's very there's
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: not a lot to it. Walls are filled with names
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: on the inside, and you're walking around, and you know,
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: you get to the bees and then you start to
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: go down the list and you see all the Brady's.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: There was a lot of them, and there was a
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: lot of your young men that died in those conflicts.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: The Commonwealth Nations really did take quite the impact at
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: that time.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: So interesting you brought that up because I was over
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: before your big die of Oorial die Sure with my brother,
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: and my brother was doing some looks and lectures on
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: what he does and he said, oh, I've I've got
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: my brother what he is. I mean, these two brothers
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: in Australia had sixty seven years of service between. We've
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: got a standing ivition. I bet it was incredible. People
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: were coming up on a graduate, well.
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: We appreciate your any years of service. And it sounds
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: like in some of the same ways that the military
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: inspired me. The vehicle based traveler did the same thing
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: for you, So you did it. You did a twenty
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: year career in the army. Were you ever sent overseas
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: or I was?
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: I was sent to Singapore with the British which is
• 11:10
  Speaker 2: British unit doing testing over there and all that sort
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: of stuff. But when I came back on that unit,
• 11:15
  Speaker 2: I was, I was seen as a guided weapons experts.
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: They weren't required. They weren't required in Vietnam, gotcha? So
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I never got to Vietnam.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was meant to be.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: One, meant to be go where the Army's engine, That's right.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean we got out of the Army
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: after twenty years and I said, I don't want to
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: do electronics enter sure, okay, well what are we going
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: to do? By that stage we founded a magazine called
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Action Outdoor Australia, which was into the backpacking sports, canoeing,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: wilderness stuff is what I love, you know, Willi's canoeing,
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: afning And I was never a good rock climber, and
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: neither am I. And then and then we'd gone to
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: Cape York in the early eighties in eighty four, we
• 11:53
  Speaker 2: thought because we got up there and I like motivating
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: people to go and see the country and this sort
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: of thing. We got up to Cape York and we've
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: been up there for three or four weeks and people
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: have gone across the Jarda and back in those days,
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: ferry drive across this very impressive river and they come
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: back and go, oh, there's nothing to see, and I'm going, oh,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: I've spent three or four weeks. They've got order anything.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: So that was the motivation to ride our first guide.
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: But that was in nineteen eighty four. And doesn't that
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: river still have PROCs And oh yeah, yeah. I mean
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: you hear every once in a while of like a
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: German tourist that goes missing. It's always ways, always the Germans.
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: I think maybe, yeah, they teas a little better to
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: the Crocs.
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And also the locals because familiarity breeds contemper. Yeah, for sure,
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: they swip across the river to get to the ferry
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: or something like that, or man crocodile. I remember when
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: we done one trip a group of friends who were
• 12:41
  Speaker 2: right into Golderness canoeing and we're backpacking with inflatable canoes
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: in their backpack and then walk down the river until
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: we could not paddle. Sure, and this is what we've
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: done on the Jarda first thing, first descents of any
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: from the source to the sea. And we took five
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: days and my brother vehicle back up for me and eat.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Talking to the Aboriginal ferry men, goes, has your brother
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: got a gun? And I says, it's a national park. Yeah,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: you're not allowed to carry gun, like old man Crocodile.
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: He don't know that.
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: That's so true. Crocs like I like this place. They
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: don't have guns.
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah. So they were great trips, you know,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: first the cents of rivers, and they were back in
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: the nineties and there were we had run ins with
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: big crocs every trip, and most people never came back.
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: You know. We'd go with six, four or five other
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: peoples and only me and me mate ever went back
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: for once. Everybody else did. Of those crocs are two
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: and now you know, twenty thirty years further wrong, crocs
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: have got bigger. Yeah, sure and even lesser Friday him.
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: And so sure they've had more mealap.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't be peddling those rivers, especially an inflatable.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Oh that's so true. So I mean Cape York is
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: a spot that fascinates a lot of people to travel,
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: you know, things like the Canning Stock. I mean, these
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: are all fantastic routes are kind of spoken of in
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: hush tones because they're so they're so meaningful to the overlander.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: And I haven't made it all the way to the
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: end of Cape York, Matt out Scarter, my co host,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: has several times. But I'll have you seen that changed
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: from the eighties when you first did the trip, and
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: now what are you seeing that's different?
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: The big thing is when we first went up there,
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: and I certainly wasn't the first full driver to go
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: up there, there was quite a few still going for me,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: there's a hell of a lot more people. Big thing
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: was that in those days, the big thing was to
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: get to the top, and that whole expedition to the time,
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: and that took you a couple of weeks from out
• 14:24
  Speaker 2: of Cairns, a lot of hard work and sure river
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: crossings and things like that, and of course the Jade
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: and as a fairly fast flowing river, it's one hundred
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: and forty five meters at one hundred and seventy yards
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: from bank to banks, and crocs in those days, if
• 14:36
  Speaker 2: a croc showed up. He wasn't there for very long,
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: somebody would get.
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Rid of it.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: But nowadays papers opened up, Aboriginal communities have opened up
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: their lands in a lot of places, so you can
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: go out to other aces. So the object isn't really
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: to get tiles what everybody goes to share it all
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: the most tip, but so many other things you can do.
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: So that's what people do. You know, they go up
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: there and go off off that major route to the
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: top and goshing it put or Portland Roads or whatever
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: it may be.
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: It was such a beautiful area. I made it maybe
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: three or four hours north of cans So along the
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: coast and or something like. That's what it was. It
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: was gorgeous, Yeah, beautiful, Yeah, I mean I was so
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: impressed by the tropical birds. The flora had changed so
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: much from what you experience even in Brisbane.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: So yeah, no, it's a fascinating area. And you know,
• 15:24
  Speaker 2: even after all this time, it's probably the most popular
• 15:27
  Speaker 2: full drive destination in Australia. Thousands get up. You don't
• 15:30
  Speaker 2: really want to be there in the school holidays in
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: August September, sure, but I was up there last year
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: with my son and he was running a tour up there,
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: and he'll be up there again in another few weeks.
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: I don't think I'll be able to make it this year,
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: but it is still a fantastic trip. How many trips
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: of me and V done They somewhere in excess of forty.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: Oh jeez, that's unbelievable.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: You haven't got to the top every time, probably fifteen
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: trips something like that at the top. But you get
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: up there and you get lost in some area Mape
• 15:57
  Speaker 2: trib or over on the western side, around the Gulf
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Country or whatever whatever I think was your fancy. You
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: go looking for old gold mines or crashed aircraft.
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: Or sure, and you've traveled across Australia many times. What
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: is your favorite lease in Australia? If you were at
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: a have to pack.
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I guess, I guess if you look at the
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: number of times I've been there, it's probably apuble. But
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: I think started traveling across the Bight, as in not
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: the nullible name the highway, but the bite around the coastline.
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: We started traveling that in about two thousand and eight,
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: done little bits off it. Back in my early days
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: when we spear fishing, and things like that. Never set
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: out to drive around the coast. I've got to say
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: that's probably the best coastal expedition drive for drive trip
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: you doing Australia. You go from Sojuna, South Australia to
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: Esperance in Western Australia. It's about fourteen hundred and fifty
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: nearly one thousand miles. It's only one fuel place you
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: can really get and that's right on the border at UCLA.
• 16:48
  Speaker 2: And I can we can do that now with only
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: about thirty mile a bit your blacktop. Sure, all the
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: rest is on either on the cliff tops, each is
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: in amongst the sanje.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Well, and I have you to thank for the trip
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: that I did across there because you had done that
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: trip with Brad and McCarthy I think, and so he
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: knew the way. So when I in twenty eighteen, when
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: I drove the bit, it was along the track that
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: you guys had kind of pioneered, and it was incredible
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: how remote that was. I mean that one there's one
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: remote kind of on a station where they do a
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: lot of bird studies and things like that.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: That was that wastory.
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: It was fascinating. And then there we also took the
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: little detour north, so north of the highway there was
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: this abandoned gas station and town. Those old cars and stuff. Unbelievable.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know exactly where you are.
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: That was fascinating.
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Hundreds of cars that broke down when the old nullable
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: was just a track. Sure, and we left it.
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: It was and the old and the old station and
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: the old homes and stuff like that. It was. It
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: was just that whole area fell area remote. I mean
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: the Canning Stock, no question, feels extremely remote because we
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: didn't encounter another vehicle the whole time. When we got
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: close to the top were some of the first cars
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: through that particular year. But we got close to the top,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: we did start to see some vehicles, but the rest
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: of it, there was just nobody there.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: It's a fabulous trip. He has done it even more
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: than me. That's funny stories.
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: But to pick one of your favorite funny stories, let's
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: hear that.
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: As editor of the magazine, I used to run trips
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: for readers and I would organized this trip up the
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: Canning Stock, would do some cleanups and all this sort
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: of sure, and then and and Rover came along and said, well,
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: we want you to go to ember there where it
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: wasn't or something, and I said to this trip, this
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: freebie trip to England and then driving new range Rover
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: or whatever it was. So how about you you taking
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: this trip? So you got the job of leading this
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: trip up the Canning Stock right in a Chevy suburban.
• 18:39
  Speaker 1: Wow.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Wow, he spent it with a dad, which was really great.
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: But that old Chevy suburban grade did the track all
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: the way.
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: I can imagine dragging the belly the whole way.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of vehicles have been nearly written
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: off along that track. Remember when Mercedes tried to do
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: like a demonstration of durability with the G class and
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: you have to respect that track and people they get
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: in a hurry. It's very long. It's not that technical,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: but it's abusive if you if you don't let those
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: shocks cool down and you don't check the bolts every day,
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: you're going to have stuff go wrong and they or
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: overload the vehicle for example. Yeah, so it's not a
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: g wagons were necessarily the problem. It was that the
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: people that were responsible for caring for them weren't doing
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: their job.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: And you know what Jedi is a lock, you know, Yeah,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: sure would be quicker than.
• 19:26
  Speaker 1: The normal exactly. Yeah, you know that's two thousand kilometers. Yeah,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it's a long way.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've seen a lot of vehicles. Shocks are the
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: big thing.
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they just smoke them.
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, shocks are the big thing then. And obviously any
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: any of those tracks out there just pounding the chassis
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: tykes for sure, brike and tybas brake and all that
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff.
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: It certainly does. As a magazine editor, and with all
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: this time that you've traveled in Australia, you've used about
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: every single vehicle that was available in your market. What
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: was your favorite was or what was your top two
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: or three?
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, land cruise has got to be in amongst
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: it some way, and we've had a number of land
• 20:00
  Speaker 2: cruises over the years. Just ordered a new one, hopefully
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: it'll be here by Christmas.
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: Where did you order? What model did you order?
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: Ah? Treb Okay serious troop car. So I've got a
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: seventy nine at home, which is out the sun of
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: the desert at the moment. Sure, But the vehicle it's
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: done the most with us is mister Patrol.
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: Gu Patrol and it was a famous.
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: Years old now and I've been around the world, done
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: four or five trips up the Canning I don't know
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: how many crossings of the Simpsons Desert. I don't know
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: how many on kpill It's got a lot of miles
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: up on them.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Does that have the four point two liters diesel? Yeah?
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Four points.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a famous motor. And the differentials on that
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: were so strong. I mean they were stronger than the
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: land cruisers.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah. The drive I mean, the patrol was
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: never as good in NVH as a cruiser, and the
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: engines were always a little bit lacking compared to a
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: cruiser engine. But the drive train was born.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Literally, you guys have done all you did, all
• 20:50
  Speaker 1: these trips to Australia. Had you literally just done it
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: all and then you wanted to go see the world.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: But what's inspired that transition from I'm traveling around Australia
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: to now I want to go see the rest of
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: the world.
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: Well, went to Africa just after I got out, Well,
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: when I got out of the army, we thought, okay,
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: we've got to make a name for ourselves. And at
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: that stage, Quanas was just starting to fly into Africa,
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: into Zimbabwe, they weren't flying into South Africa. So we
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: went to them and SAIDs is what we do. We
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: got a contract where we went and then that sort
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: of started this love affair with Africa. I can see
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: you never go to Africa once.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: It's incredible, So we started.
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Going to Africa and then going over there, I'd love
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: to go. Yeah. It just swirled from there, and then
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: of course we got to England two thousand and seven
• 21:35
  Speaker 2: whatever it was. When we got to England after driving
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: up through Africa, and I said to Viv, oh, yeah,
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: we've got to ship to the home. Let's drive across
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: Russia as you do.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: And what was your what was your route to make
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: it to Blady Asta.
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: We went up to shipped across or caught the ferry
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: across to Norway, up the coast of Norway to north beautiful,
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: beautiful country. Yeah, incredible, expensive fuel, food, all the important
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: ingredients of life. And then brought down Saint Petersburg, beautiful city.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: So you went, you went through Sweden and Finland and
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: then yeah, oh.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah we just missed. We just skirted along and then
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Saint Petersburg, beautiful city.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: It is beautiful.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And I say to people if you're going to
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: go to Russia, and if you want to go there,
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: there Moscow and Saint Petersburg. Go to Moscow first, in
• 22:21
  Speaker 2: Saint Petersburg, suause you do it the other way around,
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: you'll be really disappointed.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Well, because as I recall, there's ours. They they hired
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: all these Italian architects to help them build Saint Petersburg,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and it is really a stunning city. It's beautiful and
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of ardor whereas Moscow was, you know,
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: just open land that they developed a massive city of
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: concrete on top of. And it's not to say that
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: there aren't really charming pieces of Moscow, because there are,
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: but it is so different Saint Peter. Saint Petersburg feels
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: substantial old history and you can tell the difference. Like
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: you said, yeah, it's really good. It is so much
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: of it.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: Yes, in the Hermitage, I guess you look at World
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: War two and the Germans sacked Europe and got all
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: the treasure. The Russians make the Germans.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: And took all the trader to what happens and history
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: repeats itself. Yeah, for sure.
• 23:09
  Speaker 2: From there we dropped down through Russia, Zakistan. Yeah, I
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: had to go back into Russia because China wouldn't let
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: us cut across into Mongolia.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And what route did you take across Mongolia?
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Well, we started off in the northwest corner.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Sure, I'm familiar with that border. That is. I think
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: it's one of the longest. At the time, it was
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: one of the longest No man's lands on the planet.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 23:29
  Speaker 1: I think it's over twenty miles. You have to drive
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: between border posts, maybe even a little further than that,
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: and so you're just you're the whole time you're thinking
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: what happens if I break down? Like Fortunately it was
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: mostly downhill, I think, and I was in a little gymney,
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm just like I got to make it
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: to the border.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And yeah, you reminded me of that. I've forgotten about that.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: How wide it was man and of course that Mongolia
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: Fox Rally, Yeah, it was on at the same time.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: It was it we were helping all these people out
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: because yeah, they're they're so fun. Yeah, it always clapped out,
• 23:58
  Speaker 2: little cars popping and all this sort of thing. That
• 24:01
  Speaker 2: were repairing tires for them, getting them on the road again,
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: and then down into Ulabatar and then down to the
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: Gobi and then a big circle around the Goby. Of
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: course it rained down the Goby.
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Oh wow.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: We ended up opening some of the tour operators out
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: of there, getting out of the bogs, and then back
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: to Ulamatar and then up around the Chinese border like Pakal.
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: And that's in incredible too, just the size of that lake.
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: I think it has nearly the same amount of fresh
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: water as the Great Lakes in North America. Just that's
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: so hard to believe because it's so deep, you know,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: it's just it's it wasn't until I mean sometime in
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: the last century is when they finally found the depth
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: of it. But it was it was like maybe in
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: the sixties. I mean, it took them a while to
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: find the bottom of this lake.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it is unbelievable. We can't designed it. For a
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: couple of nights. The weather it's a it's a weather
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: factory of Siberia.
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: Basically interesting.
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: And then of course we just we basically follow the
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Chinese Russian an unbelievable trip. You know, the people couldn't
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: relate outside of the loud of Ostok and Saint Petersburg
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: and Oscow. They couldn't relate to travelers, really, why are
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: you here?
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: What are you doing? Why are you doing this?
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: You must be a Western spy. Of course you made
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: some nice.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: People, no question. What I found was most challenging is
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: the language barrier. Yeah, in most of Siberia, small villages,
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: it's very difficult to find in English speaking person, and
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the language is so different. You know, it's not a
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: Latin derived language. So you know, like if you're in
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Italy you can kind of make it work or whatever,
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: but in Russia it's so different. Yeah, you kind of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: you kind of hope you're going the right way. What
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: did you think of Ladi Bostock.
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: Well, we spent a week there, as you normally do
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: when you're trying to organize ship ship out, all that
• 25:36
  Speaker 2: sort of stuff. We stayed in some fancy hotel. I
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: have a look in the harbor and yeah, look you've
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: run into customs, running to sure shipping agents and things
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: like that, so you get a different point of view
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: about a city. I guess we certainly went. They saw
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: it saying and things like that, but I made it's
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: a magnificent harbor.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: Very pretty. Yeah, it's it's It's surprised me because we
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: drove into Magadan and we shipped a container to Lady Bostark.
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: So to see the difference between Maggodan and Blady Barstark
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: is obviously very starke. But I was so impressed with
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: how beautiful Lady of Barstok was.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: It was a magnificent harbor and they were doing some
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: drills and the airplanes were coming in just skimming the
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: surface of the harbor dropping a fire retardant on smoking
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: barges and it was very impressive the fly pick it
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: up water and then dropping it on these smoking barges. Yeah,
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: we were watching that from the hotel room. But yeah,
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: look back, everything changed with when the twin towers came down,
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: and once upon a time you could go into the
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: harbors and check your vehicle onto onto the ship DMD.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Now you get locked at the gate, somebody takes your
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: vehicle and you go, well, hope, I see that in
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: Australia again.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then where did you ship from Blady Bostock
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: to Australia. So you ship back, that's a challenge to
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: shipping anything back into Australia. Cleanliness requirements are very strict.
• 26:55
  Speaker 2: And oh man, a lot of people come undone doing that. Yeah,
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: We've helped a couple of people and every time we've
• 27:01
  Speaker 2: gone into Australia with their vehicles, taken two to three
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: weeks to get it out of customs and quarantine's right,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: And I know and I know people who've been in
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: ship vehicles into Australia in four weeks later, they're still
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: waiting for them. And of course that's not the real
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: real problem is your visus ticking away. You haven't got accommodation,
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: staying at a hotel, and it adds up and the
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: people are indspair by the time you know, three or
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: four weeks have gone by.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: It's true, and I think it's the it's the one
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: place in the world. And I think having a shipping
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: agent is almost a requirement because some of the shipping
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: agents they have agreements with the Australian government to be
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: able to certify the vehicle as being as meeting the
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: requirements for cleanliness. So a person that you're hiring is
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: now held responsible for the outcome. And it allows them
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: because as an individual, you go and you say, all right,
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: I'm going to have this custom this you know, ag
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: inspection of the vehicle. It fails. Now it's got to
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: be quarantined for another however many days, seven days, I
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: think at least, whereas this other company can just they
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: can just keep cleaning it in until it passes and
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: then and then you're off to the race. The cleaning bills, yeah,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: I seven hundred every time. It's very expensive. Yeah, but
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: it works.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: I mean.
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: And of course our vehicles were filthy from having done
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: the road of bones and everything like that. They were
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: absolutely filthy. We had them cleaned three times in uh
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: Russia and they actually did a pretty good job. It's
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: because I had some local folks that I knew well
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: so that like I had a relationship with them, and
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: they took the time to do it right. Then it
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: still had to be cleaned in Australia again, amazing it is.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: It's real real trap for young pliers going into that.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: I can't blame Australia for it though. You guys are
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: an island and you have these very sensitive ecosystems. If
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: somebody was to bring in some noxious weed or whatever
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: it could, it could really damage your beautiful country.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: We've got fire ants in Brisbane now really trying to
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: spend an awful lot of money trying to get him
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: under trap. Yeah, I met at some quarantine people up
• 28:48
  Speaker 2: in paper and we're in a national park. Three four
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: wheelers go by like sitting. Wow, that's what do they
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: doing that? Not just normal people? Yeah, that'll be something
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: going on. And they were quarantine. They were up there
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: shooting pigs and wild horses and doing blood tests and
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: see things like that. Because they told me. Then he
• 29:06
  Speaker 2: said the place it's more quarantine people and the rest
• 29:09
  Speaker 2: of any other port in Australia apart from Sydney. Oh wow,
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: because only one hundred kilometers from New Guinea through And
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: he said if off in Mouth or anything like that
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: comes into Australia, it's going to come through capible. Yeah,
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: that makes sense, and it's going to cost billions exports.
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and you're I mean the cattle industry is
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: really important in Australia. All right, So you ship back
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: into Australia. Now, as I recall, you guys had quite
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: the experience crossing Russia and you're starting to figure out
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: what are we going to do next. You've been traveling
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: in a patrol the roof tent. What were some things
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: that you learned from that first trip? What were the
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: things that you took away that hey, this worked great,
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: and then these are some things that I'd like to change.
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: Rooftop tents are more and more popular every year in
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: America as they are in Australia, and I think they
• 29:51
  Speaker 2: came out of Africa more than anywhere else for sure.
• 29:54
  Speaker 2: And people don't like sleeping on the ground in Africa, understandably.
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: We had a rooftop ten, Reallyustralian made one and it
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: was really good, and it was great for Africa. Do
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: you know you start to find the limitations of that
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: when you're in Siberia when we got to ship back
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: to Australia and we thought, well, Vince vid to continue
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: our journeys around the world, So did we take a
• 30:14
  Speaker 2: small camp of trailer And I think I think one
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: of the other things that is happening, especially in Australia.
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: I don't know whether it's happening in America so much,
• 30:20
  Speaker 2: but certainly in Australia there's there's a real thing about
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: GVM and how much weight you're allowed to carry and
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: insurance problems, you know, you have an accident and all
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: that stuff. So there's this move across to trailers vans.
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, then you have the grous combined vehicle. We're reading
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: between the truck and the trailer.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So there's that movement. And that's one of the big
• 30:39
  Speaker 2: things we were talking about Cape York and one of
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: the big changes a lot of time. When we went
• 30:42
  Speaker 2: to Cape York in the eighties, I had an old
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: trailer that I itself. I got it from Office miitary
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: trailer and a fight at sure Land Cruise and springs
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: and all that, and I was about one of the
• 30:52
  Speaker 2: very few people tiring a trailer. Now ninety five percent
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: of the vehicles airing trailers that think interesting and it's
• 30:59
  Speaker 2: all because of this thinking about light and all that
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: sort of get and also people want a hot system.
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, imagine just going into the bush with just a backpack.
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: I mean it's like, you know, it works fine too,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: you know, you can actually travel very late. But it
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: has definitely been a trend that we have seen as well.
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: So the trucks are getting bigger, of full sized vehicles
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: are now much more common than they ever have been,
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: and trailers are more common than they ever have been
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: big trailers yet. And so you do, you do gain
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of comfort, but there are it's important
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: for people to know, like those that are listening, that
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: is a there's a huge compromise. On the other side,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: there is you have a lot more expense, you're restricted
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: on where you can go, the vehicle gets very very heavy,
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: your fuel costs go up.
• 31:41
  Speaker 2: And the other thing we had my son and specializes
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: in taking groups with trailers and there's been this since COVID,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: especially a lot of people coming into the market who've
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: never gone full driving, never gone camping. And we've done
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: a trip last year across the desert lily, remote country,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: Gary Highway, gun Barrel and roads that are iconic in
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: australiaas Sure and get these people there and brand new
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: rigs Rand new Cruise of two hundred series crewis Rand
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: new camp a trailer and probably three hundred thousand dollars
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: combine sure expense and talking to and how much water
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: do you care bo one hundred and fifty two hundred
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: gallons it's almost half a ton, that's.
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, at eight point three three pounds per gallon,
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: that's heavy.
• 32:22
  Speaker 2: So vehicles and yeah yeah, oh yeah, that's got a
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: sixteen hundred kilo alt you hit a bump or one
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: hundred kilos of water on board sure things, Ben, we
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: ended up there was three vehicles ended up with trailers
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: with bent stub axles, and purely because they were carrying
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: too much water.
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: That's right, too much weak to get that down, you
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: really do. And I think that the trip actually improves.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: The more simple that we keep things, the more the
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: trip improves. Yeah, because then you're not you're not spending
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: so much energy on all the stuff you brought along.
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: And especially with electronics and true, man, yeah, you guys
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: don't have enough USB ports any.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: It's so true. Yeah, it's so true. So you decided
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: that you're going to try a different tact. South America
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: is next. So what did you guys decided to use
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: in South America? What was you set up?
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well we took at gu patrol and we tied
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: a small camper trailer and that allowed us to get
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: friends coming here. Sure, they were relegated to the rooftop tent. Sure,
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: and we stayed in the camper trailer. But it allowed
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: us that and so it sort of made the trip
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: a lot more enjoyable because I really enjoy it any
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: out there with friends and sharing the experience, and sure,
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: especially when I'm in Australia, where I know the country
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: so well and off in the history. Yeah, South Africa
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: was just fabulous and the people and in fact it's
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: stopping in one little national park in Argentina we hid
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: from people because they were bringing gifts to us to talk.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: They were very friendly. Oh yeah, and have you found
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, and this is just kind of a fun
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: question to ask, but it seems that Australians are kind
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: of universally loved around the world. There's just something so
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: d charming about you guys. Have you found that to
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: be true?
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, look, we haven't had any any huge problems
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: at all. Let's get accepted everywhere, and I think here
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: in America we really get accepted once they know you're
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: in Australian. You know. I've had people come up to
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: me and just say thanks, thanks for your support and
• 34:06
  Speaker 2: that sort of. So that's been really We just love
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: being and spent nine months traveling through South America, ended
• 34:13
  Speaker 2: up in North America, came into Mexico and then into
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: San Diego and La At the end of twenty eleven,
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: left their vehicle here, went home for a few months,
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: came back, drove up to Alaska in two thousand and well,
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: we've been coming back ever since. We couldn't leave our
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: vehicle here in a llowed to do that. So after
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: twelve months we shipped our vehicle back home and we
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: bought a Ram twenty five hundred, got a four wheel
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: camper on come back for three months every year.
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: So perfect. Yeah, it's just fabulous. What do you think
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: of the Ram and the four will camper?
• 34:40
  Speaker 2: Look, I'm really impressed. I think are underestimated here as
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: an overland vehicle in Australia. Whether it's my mate who
• 34:47
  Speaker 2: traveled around the world with he's got a two fifty
• 34:50
  Speaker 2: camper on the back and he's done everything across the Sahara,
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: done awful lot in Australia's done more in Australia than
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: as a trips and things like that. So I reckon
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: have been underestimated and I think we've grown bell Yeah,
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: sure added a little bit to his article on big rigs.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: That's right and my thoughts on that. Yeah, they can
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: carry the way easily. And the good thing about having
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: a vehicle like that in the Americas is spare parts
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: and knowledge on how to fix someone.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: Of that absolutely and then you do it. Get to
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: add a little bit more of that comfort. You get
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: that kind of way it place to sleep at the
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: end of the night. You know, you don't have dust
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: in your bed, and it doesn't make a big difference. So,
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: after having traveled around the world, and I mean decades
• 35:30
  Speaker 1: now have experienced for Viv and you, what do you
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: think are the things that you've learned most? Maybe about yourself? First?
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: What do you what do you kind of things have
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: changed about you after having spent so many years seeing that.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: I've spent most of them with Viv, so I've become
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: to depend on her in lots of ways. And you know,
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: it's all a compromise, is in equipment, how you relate
• 35:52
  Speaker 2: to other people and stuff like that. And people are
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: alway surprised that you live in that for three months
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: at a time sort of thing. And we've had people,
• 35:59
  Speaker 2: God be divorced if I tried to live with my
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: wife in that for three months and things like that.
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: How have you guys made that work? Then? What have
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: what have you guys learned together because you've seen the
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: world together, Well, what have you learned?
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: I've mellowed, I believe it or not. My wife is
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: killing herself laughing there, but yeah, yeah, I guess seeing
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: ex military, you sort of grow up, especially when you
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: join the army at fifteen sixteen. Sure you get older
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: in the military way. And I had to break that
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: a bit. I guess I ended up a Warren off
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: the Class one entry. So sure, killing people what to do, yeah,
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: doesn't work.
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when you start telling your family what to do,
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: yet it doesn't work.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: So I think the other thing with the eals equals
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: have become more reliable. The problem is when they do
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: break down, it's so complicated. And I remember we broke
• 36:44
  Speaker 2: down the Oldness and patrol. I've only had one electronic
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: box in it, and that's a security box to he start.
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: And I was really remote country northwest of Alice Springs
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: in some Aboriginal land and drove into photograph there's what
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: a whole photographs, jump back in the car, hit the start, started,
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: it turned over. It sounds fee go looking at it
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: up on the SAT phone to my mate and well,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: what's the case. There's an electronic box in there that
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: sends some codes to the sure. So then I rang
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: Viev and said, okay, this is where we are. And
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: that's the first time in forty odd years that I've
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: ever been recovered by somebody.
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: Ah, that's amazing.
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: So that electronic box when I got back to back
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: to civilization, ripped that box out and just put twelve bolts,
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: twelve vaults into.
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: That into that field exactly. Yeah, you want to turn
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: the key and hear things happen.
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: That's it. That's it.
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: That's that's interesting. You know. One of the things that
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: we always like to ask, and you've written many books yourself,
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: but one of the questions that we always like to ask,
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: or what are the books that you've read in your
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: life that you think have been the most impactful for
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: you as a person and for you as a traveler.
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: Well, in Australia, I think the books by Lenn Bedell
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: on those roads that he built out in the Western deserts,
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: which I'm going out to again in a couple of
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: weeks time. It's been out there taking people around. I mean,
• 37:56
  Speaker 2: those books just thing that sort of stuff to life.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: And it was a different time back then, and Aboriginal
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: people now have ownership over much of that landing, all
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: of it, but still the tracks are there and the
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: history is there and all that sort of stuff. So
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: that was a really good, really good and then look,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: I read an awful lot. I read a lot of
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: Australian history, and I come to America American history.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: Kit cars and yeah, sure, fascinating.
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we grew up with that in Australia as young
• 38:23
  Speaker 2: kids of cowboys and Indians and things like that. Lewis
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: and Clark. We enjoy the Lewis and Clark stories and
• 38:29
  Speaker 2: that prompts us to travel in America. And yeah, it's
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: a similar thing as in Australia. Burke and Wilson. Going
• 38:34
  Speaker 2: back to my great great grandfather, he went with Sturt
• 38:37
  Speaker 2: in the eighteen forty five expedition to Central Australia. So
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: I sort of relate to that. And my grandfather he
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: wrote Pony Express on the Central Australian Raw telegraph line
• 38:47
  Speaker 2: before the Wins were connected. You know, I've got a
• 38:50
  Speaker 2: bit of history going back into that. Yeah, sort of
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: provides me with the is to go and see that
• 38:54
  Speaker 2: traveling those footsteps, I guess I like following in the
• 38:58
  Speaker 2: footsteps of explorers. Is this tangible sense of history. And
• 39:01
  Speaker 2: you would know too from going to the Canning stock
• 39:03
  Speaker 2: you can touch history.
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: You can those wells and everything else is fascinating stuff. Yeah, absolutely, incredible,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: really beautiful. And then one of the other things that
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: we like to ask, if you were to sit down
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: to have lunch with someone that was getting ready to
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: go off and go into the world like you and
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: viv have and go ross Russia or to go up
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: Africa or whatever, what would be the top pieces of
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: advice you would give them, What would be the things
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: that you would want to make sure that they understood.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Well, I think I think one of the things and
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: I'm sure you would have seen the same too, is
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: you don't have to get carried away with the equipment,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: you know, just step back a bit. People say, oh,
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: what vehicle should I have, and I say, well, what
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: vehicle you got? I'll go with Gee Androv or someone
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: not just jump in that and go. I remember we
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: met two young couple in Argentina, little Toyota Corolla, roof
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: rack on top, loaded to the guntle and they were
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: setting off for Alaska, twenty year old vehicle. If it
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: broke down, it didn't really matter if they couldn't bear.
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: And I think I think you've got to have that
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: love of that, and it's not money that it's motivation
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: to get your started, to get you out, and then
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: I say to people, don't keep saying I'm going to
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: do that one day. Set a day. If it's a
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: weekend trip, so set it for two weeks time, with
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: three weeks time. If it's a month long trip, set
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: it for six months. If it's a trip around the world,
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: going to say I'm going to shill on the fifteenth
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: of June two two three, and then work towards that.
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: Get the cat sorted out, get the garden sorted out,
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: whatever it takes. Sure, don't keep saying I'm going to
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: do that, because you won't do it.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing how we'll continue to give up on
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: our dreams. Yeah, to satisfy whatever is interesting today, maybe
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: on social media or whatever, which if you can think
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: about the amount of time people spend on let's call
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: it Facebook, if you could get back all of that
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: time you would have, you'd have the vehicle built, your
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: route planned, You've probably made some more money because you've
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: had more time at work, and next thing you know,
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: you're off to go actually see the world instead of
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: seeing other people do it.
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very true. Yeah, that's yeah. I'll get out
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: there and do it. Pick up a mat and I mean,
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: Facebook and all that sort of stuff is great for
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: keeping in touch with people. Don't get too carried away.
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'd hate to be starting off as a
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: prospective and to die. Yeah, the forces of you've got
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: to have a multimedia presence and on Twitter and Facebook, sure,
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Instagram and all that sort of stuff. And we've got
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: we do a bit on Facebook, and we do a
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: bit on Instagram and living out of it. Yeah.
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: It's a tall order, isn't it.
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: Lots of people out there trying it. Yeah, and a
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: lot sell the alve to low us bid, Yeah, to
• 41:22
  Speaker 2: get as or.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: Just to just buy the tires.
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: Yet.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, Ron, thank you so much for being here in Prescott,
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: for taking some time out of your busy schedule. Thanks
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: to your wife Viv as well, for allowing this to
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: all happen, and for putting up with you going around
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: the world. I got a nod from her just now,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: a big nod. You've inspired generations and you should be
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: very proud of the things that you guys have done,
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: the quality of work that you've done. We're so grateful
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: that your content has been in Overland Journal and on
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: Expedition Portal and we've been able to share that with
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: our audience as well. How do people find out more
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: about you and Viv and what you're doing to they
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: they find you in the social world.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Our major website is Guidebooks guidebooks dot com dot au.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: Are you for Australia, And then we have dirt Ride
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Diaries dot com dot you, And then there's Facebook Ron
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: and then there's a Remote Australia Ron on Viv Moon's
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: Remote Australia Facebook age and that's really Australian stuff, okay.
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: And so about on Instagram? How do they find you
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: on I don't even know. I want to be like
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: Ron when I grow up.
• 42:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't remember.
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: That's okay, but they could probably search the.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I mean if you if you search Ron on Viv
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: Moon Australia hits and stuff like that. That's like I
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: said going back on the station. Yeah, like motivating people
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: go out and have a literally and down. There's no
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: better way of doing that on a motorbike all drive
• 42:47
  Speaker 2: and going out and.
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: Camp in Fleetable whatever. For sure, and you've done that.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: You've motivated so many people to see Australia and to
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: see the world. Ryn, So thank you so much for
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: spending the time with me today. We're grateful to have
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: you on the podcast and I look forward to hearing
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: what you're up to next. In fact, that is a question,
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: where are you guys going next?
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: We're back to Australia next Monday. I'll be heading out
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: in the desert country and running a trip from the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: sun across some of the bomb roads of Linberdellbille and
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: Coast to coast we call it. We go from the
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: southern coast to the northwest coast of Australia and that's
• 43:19
  Speaker 2: three weeks of remote country.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: Fantastic.
• 43:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fabulous, absolutely fat about eight hundred and nine
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: hundred miles between Aboriginal communities. Sure, you know what it's like. Fantastic, fantastic. Yeah,
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: that'll be the first trip. I'll come back. We were
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: spending some time with the parents while I'm out, and
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: then we'll head bush and go up to northwestern New
• 43:36
  Speaker 2: South Wales. It's had a lot of rain through their
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: ten year droughts broken, all the lakes are full, birds
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: have moved in.
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: Fantastic, it should be fan fantastic. Oh yeah, oh that's great. Well, Ron,
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: thank you so much again for being on the podcast.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Thanks for having us you bet, and we thank you
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: all for listening, and we'll talk to you next time.