Latest / The Parenting Podcast / When the Fruit Is Slow | Ep. 197

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When the Fruit Is Slow | Ep. 197 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:00
  Cheryl: I have given it all, I am giving it all, and I'm just not getting the feedback Right.
• 0:06
  Cheryl: That I thought I would get.
• 0:07
  Speaker: Sometimes parenting carries a quiet disappointment.
• 0:12
  Speaker: We don't always say out loud, you keep loving.
• 0:17
  Speaker: You keep showing up.
• 0:20
  Speaker: You wonder why the fruit feels so slow.
• 0:26
  Speaker: I'm Cheryl Lang and on the Parenting podcast today, Christie and I are sitting with that space, the seasons where you're discouraged, tired, and still trying to stay steady.
• 0:41
  Speaker: Without walking away from what matters most,
• 0:53
  I.
• 0:54
  Cheryl: You know, Christie, one of the things that we like to do at TPP is bring some hope and encouragement to our listening audience.
• 1:03
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:04
  Cheryl: You know, and I'm just gonna tell you, I have met recently with several different moms that were very discouraged, and when we talked about why are you discouraged, what is this hard?
• 1:20
  Cheryl: and I could identify with them, What it kind of turned out to be, is they said, I thought I would see more fruit.
• 1:29
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:30
  Cheryl: I'm, I have given it all, I am giving it all, and I'm just not getting the feedback Right.
• 1:36
  Cheryl: That I thought I would get.
• 1:38
  Cheryl: And I think historically it was hard, but I think particularly in this instantaneous digital, all you have to do is tap on your phone world.
• 1:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: That it's really discouraging that you don't have, um, 300,000 followers.
• 1:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 1:54
  Cheryl: And you're still doing all the work.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Right.
• 1:56
  Cheryl: Right.
• 1:57
  Christie: If that makes sense.
• 1:58
  Christie: Yeah.
• 1:58
  Christie: I think it, it does make sense when you think back to, um.
• 2:03
  Christie: You know, when our lives were centered around agricultural living and hard work had to be done.
• 2:10
  Christie: We didn't have microwaves or dishwashers or you know, it, we have grown more accustomed to quick fruit.
• 2:15
  Christie: Yes.
• 2:16
  Christie: That exactly right.
• 2:16
  Christie: And so it does.
• 2:17
  Christie: It definitely is increasing, but I, I, I mean, even parenting 20 years ago, I felt that I felt that need to, I, I think I would say it this way that I didn't expect so much tending to the garden to be required to produce the fruit.
• 2:35
  Christie: You see it?
• 2:35
  Christie: Yeah.
• 2:36
  Christie: Really is a good
• 2:36
  Cheryl: analogy, isn't it?
• 2:37
  Cheryl: Uhhuh, the agriculture one really is.
• 2:39
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:39
  Cheryl: For example.
• 2:43
  Cheryl: I have two different flower gardens and one of mine in the front yard.
• 2:46
  Cheryl: It's a pretty good size, and I call it the island, it has a cement.
• 2:51
  Cheryl: Thing around it and I use it as a wildflower garden.
• 2:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 2:54
  Cheryl: And so I was frustrated because I'm not getting the wildflowers that I had for a while.
• 3:01
  Cheryl: And so I was doing some research with it and, uh, talk to, chat about it.
• 3:06
  Cheryl: Uhhuh my gardening assistant.
• 3:08
  Cheryl: And then what's happening is the, uh.
• 3:13
  Cheryl: Daisies were taking over and the daisies are really cute, but they bloom and quit and then the plant is there.
• 3:20
  Cheryl: I see.
• 3:20
  Cheryl: And they were.
• 3:21
  Cheryl: Pushing everything out and nothing else could come up.
• 3:23
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:24
  Cheryl: And last year I cut'em all down.
• 3:26
  Cheryl: Well, they just came back.
• 3:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 3:28
  Cheryl: And they're invasive.
• 3:29
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:29
  Cheryl: And so what the gardener said, oh, you have to dig them all up.
• 3:34
  Cheryl: Wow.
• 3:36
  Cheryl: Oh, that's a, sure.
• 3:36
  Cheryl: So here's the hard work I wasn't getting what I wanted and I'd worked so hard.
• 3:42
  Cheryl: Oh, now I'm gonna have to go back and dig all those up.
• 3:46
  Cheryl: Right.
• 3:47
  Cheryl: But.
• 3:49
  Cheryl: It's just the same analogy.
• 3:50
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 3:51
  Cheryl: I've worked so hard and now my children are responding this way.
• 3:53
  Cheryl: And Christie, it's not just one age group.
• 3:57
  Cheryl: 'cause I hear a lot from parents in the releasing years mm-hmm.
• 4:01
  Cheryl: With young adults and they're thinking.
• 4:04
  Cheryl: Oh, I thought I would get, thank you, mom.
• 4:06
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:07
  Cheryl: It was wonderful.
• 4:08
  Cheryl: How can I help you?
• 4:09
  Cheryl: The ways you invested
• 4:10
  Christie: in my life.
• 4:11
  Christie: Oh, I appreci were such a blessing to me.
• 4:13
  Christie: Oh, I
• 4:13
  Cheryl: just saw you sacrifice all that Uhhuh.
• 4:15
  Cheryl: So there's a little frustration that, yeah.
• 4:17
  Cheryl: Because they kind of feel like maybe the plants are speaking back going, you, you didn't do this and you didn't do this.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:23
  Cheryl: You're still not doing this.
• 4:24
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:25
  Cheryl: But I've also heard it from young moms.
• 4:27
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:27
  Cheryl: And they're saying, I've worked so hard and they still don't do what I ask.
• 4:33
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 4:34
  Cheryl: Or I've done all these things and then we have a meltdown and we can't get outta the house, or I can't take them certain places'cause they don't do this.
• 4:42
  Cheryl: And I, I don't know what to do.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 4:44
  Cheryl: And I'm so frustrated.
• 4:46
  Cheryl: And then not
• 4:47
  Cheryl A: only are they discouraged, I think I would say they feel a little shame.
• 4:58
  Cheryl A: That they aren't willing to sacrifice more and they're feeling the shock and the disappointment.
• 5:04
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 5:05
  Cheryl A: When they thought I should be more mature and do this only for my children.
• 5:10
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 5:10
  Cheryl A: Instead of expecting to get back the fruit that I thought I would get.
• 5:13
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 5:14
  Cheryl A: Like if I plant wild flowers and I get, who knows, crab grass.
• 5:19
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 5:19
  Cheryl A: I'm gonna be really frustrated.
• 5:20
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 5:21
  Cheryl A: And I think they're having a little bit of shame.
• 5:24
  Cheryl A: Would be a word almost that I'd apply to it.
• 5:27
  Cheryl A: Sure.
• 5:27
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:28
  Christie: I, I mean, I think I have experienced that, those feelings.
• 5:32
  Christie: I think another set of emotions I walked through were, um.
• 5:37
  Christie: Just uncertainty.
• 5:39
  Christie: If I'm not seeing fruit, am I doing it wrong?
• 5:41
  Christie: Yes.
• 5:41
  Christie: Right.
• 5:42
  Christie: I would say that was the predominant feeling of, I already felt insecure about parenting.
• 5:46
  Christie: I already felt like I didn't know what to do.
• 5:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 5:48
  Christie: And so if I read all the books and ask all the mentors.
• 5:51
  Christie: Absolutely.
• 5:51
  Christie: And look at the other parents, what they're doing, and then I set out with my course of action and.
• 5:57
  Christie: The fruit's not there.
• 5:59
  Christie: It must have been me.
• 6:00
  Christie: I missed, I missed the instructions somewhere.
• 6:03
  Cheryl: I, I hear you.
• 6:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 6:05
  Cheryl: Again, it goes, let's go back to my wildflower garden because the seeds I planted, you should see what the gardening
• 6:12
  Cheryl A: website Online.
• 6:13
  Cheryl A: I research, they said it would look like this.
• 6:16
  Cheryl A: Oh.
• 6:16
  Cheryl A: And they showed the pictures and I did everything they said.
• 6:19
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 6:20
  Cheryl A: Uh, I just missed that one part about Oh, yeah.
• 6:22
  Cheryl A: And you have to go back and dig up those 200 daisies that are taking over.
• 6:26
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 6:27
  Cheryl A: The nice thing is, is, oh, these are just flowers, right?
• 6:31
  Cheryl A: So I just had to go dig'em up and now I'm hoping to get the harvest of beauty.
• 6:35
  Christie: Or you just decide
• 6:36
  Cheryl: you're not
• 6:36
  Christie: a gardener anymore.
• 6:37
  Cheryl: There we go.
• 6:37
  Cheryl: Quit burn it all down.
• 6:38
  Cheryl A: You Can't do it in parenting.
• 6:40
  Cheryl A: And the problem is that thing of thinking it's an event.
• 6:45
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 6:45
  Cheryl A: Or that they are a product, even though we wouldn't say those words.
• 6:49
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 6:49
  Cheryl A: We keep.
• 6:50
  Cheryl A: Treating it like they're products.
• 6:52
  Cheryl A: And if I put the, okay, I need to put this organic, um, compost down.
• 6:58
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 6:59
  Cheryl A: And if I dig up those, and if I do it just the right thing and I water it right, I should get the flowers I want.
• 7:06
  Cheryl A: And there just isn't that in parenting and certainly with digital media and social media and everything, it was bad enough when there were magazines and talk shows.
• 7:17
  Cheryl A: Well shows, even the
• 7:17
  Christie: family members that say things or friends that.
• 7:21
  Christie: You know, and, and even ourselves, our own viewpoints.
• 7:25
  Christie: I've, I've said it at times myself, like, I can't believe they let their kids act that way.
• 7:29
  Christie: Or, you know, somebody should teach them how to parent you.
• 7:32
  Christie: When you're having a judgmental moment, then those tapes play back at yourself.
• 7:38
  Christie: That's right.
• 7:38
  Cheryl: Because you're critical them uhhuh, so you figure everybody's critical and they're all watching me.
• 7:44
  Cheryl: You know, whatever the strength is.
• 7:46
  Cheryl: For example, if your strength is, um, a joyful family and everybody kind of has fun.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: And there's a real strength in that.
• 7:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 7:54
  Cheryl: And then you see the person who's all their children sit the way they're supposed to at the library and you know, go the comparison.
• 8:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 8:01
  Cheryl: And you go, wow.
• 8:02
  Cheryl: And you see their strengths without the shadow side.
• 8:04
  Cheryl: Right.
• 8:05
  Cheryl: And so we think, oh, how can I fix?
• 8:08
  Cheryl: So I get that right, and I get this and I get that.
• 8:12
  Christie: Or child to child, that's true.
• 8:14
  Christie: Say you have one or two children and that this, this was never an issue for them.
• 8:19
  Christie: And then you hit number three and this one doesn't sleep.
• 8:22
  Christie: Or this one, you know, throws temper tantrum.
• 8:24
  Christie: Well, I've never dealt with this before and I think that's where maybe some resentment towards the child can creep in or, um, lots of emotions that could come with that.
• 8:35
  Cheryl: And see what you just said.
• 8:36
  Cheryl: Resentment.
• 8:37
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 8:39
  Cheryl: I know
• 8:39
  Cheryl A: I had some sometimes.
• 8:41
  Cheryl A: And I know others.
• 8:42
  Cheryl A: Again, there's shame.
• 8:44
  Cheryl A: I shouldn't Yes.
• 8:46
  Cheryl A: Feel resentment.
• 8:47
  Cheryl A: Right?
• 8:47
  Cheryl A: I should have this unconditional love and acceptance mm-hmm.
• 8:52
  Cheryl A: Of everything that's going on and just plow right through it and keep the wind in my sails.
• 8:59
  Cheryl A: mm-hmm.
• 8:59
  Cheryl A: It's hard, Christie.
• 9:01
  Cheryl A: It is hard.
• 9:03
  Cheryl A: And I think we talked about some of the words discouragement and even resentment and shame.
• 9:10
  Cheryl A: I think then when you start kind of becoming more mature maybe in your parenting and more realistic, there could be some grief.
• 9:19
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 9:20
  Cheryl A: That you're never really going to get what you thought you were.
• 9:23
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 9:23
  Cheryl A: Okay.
• 9:24
  Cheryl A: Maybe you're a real, again, touchy feely, warm type person and.
• 9:31
  Cheryl A: Your family is more intellectual I mean, thinking based logic.
• 9:36
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 9:37
  Cheryl A: Instead of this ooey, gooey feedback, and you're just never gonna get them to run up and go, mom.
• 9:43
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 9:43
  Cheryl A: Grab you and pick you up and spin you around and go, tell me about your day.
• 9:48
  Cheryl A: You're just not gonna get that.
• 9:50
  Cheryl A: And if you're gonna let your flowers grow the way they're supposed to, there can be a.
• 9:57
  Cheryl A: Grief in that coming to terms mm-hmm.
• 10:00
  Cheryl A: With the reality of what your family really is, instead of that ideal that you thought you could create.
• 10:07
  Christie: Right.
• 10:07
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:08
  Christie: Either like you're saying the, the children you're given or the reality of who you are and your resources and capabilities, maybe you always dreamed of being the, you know, at home.
• 10:23
  Christie: Homeroom mom that volunteers.
• 10:25
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 10:26
  Christie: And you're now working, or maybe you always wanted to be a career mom.
• 10:31
  Christie: Yeah.
• 10:31
  Christie: And now you find yourself for some reason staying home or, and not just the circumstances, but you may have had expectations of what kind of parent you were gonna be in.
• 10:39
  Christie: Now you're facing the reality of, no, this, this is the reality of what I'm dealing with.
• 10:45
  Christie: And there is a grief involved in that.
• 10:48
  Cheryl: There we are.
• 10:48
  Cheryl: It's coming to terms with what reality is instead of this ideal.
• 10:53
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 10:54
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 10:54
  Cheryl: You know, we talk about that.
• 10:56
  Cheryl: What did you say the, um, we've
• 10:58
  Christie: called it the phantom
• 10:59
  Cheryl: mom.
• 11:00
  Cheryl: Phantom mom.
• 11:01
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:01
  Cheryl: Phantom family.
• 11:02
  Cheryl: Phantom children.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 11:03
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 11:04
  Cheryl: And I, you know, all we ever do is talk
• 11:06
  Cheryl A: about our struggles.
• 11:07
  Christie: Right.
• 11:08
  Christie: Because what else do we talk about?
• 11:09
  Christie: Right.
• 11:09
  Christie: Our mistakes.
• 11:10
  Christie: Okay.
• 11:11
  Christie: Guess what I expected in my home?
• 11:13
  Christie: I expected all of my children to be
• 11:16
  Cheryl A: a certain Kind of person, right?
• 11:19
  Cheryl A: And I just didn't get that.
• 11:20
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 11:20
  Cheryl A: I got different strengths, challenges Temperaments strains, different temperaments but I just didn't get what I had expected.
• 11:27
  Cheryl A: and it took me.
• 11:28
  Cheryl A: A long time to be mature enough to be willing to accept my children for who they were mm-hmm.
• 11:36
  Cheryl A: And their strengths and shadow sides, and not expect them to be, if I just love them well enough mm-hmm.
• 11:42
  Cheryl A: Then they'll be able to develop all the things I want'em to develop.
• 11:45
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 11:46
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 11:47
  Cheryl A: I've, I, for me, it was the flip.
• 11:50
  Cheryl A: Had expectations of who I would be as a parent.
• 11:53
  Cheryl A: Oh, I had collected this ideal circumstance that, yeah, well when I have kids of my own, I'm gonna do X, Y, Z, and, and then I realized that was an unattainable and that was disappointing for me.
• 12:06
  Cheryl A: And I know you and I have both known people who have very sweet, timid.
• 12:12
  Cheryl A: Quiet temperament.
• 12:13
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 12:13
  Cheryl A: And then they have a child that's this loud, boisterous, jump off the roof and blow something up kind of.
• 12:20
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 12:20
  Cheryl A: mentality you know, kind of a approach to life and explosive energy.
• 12:24
  Cheryl A: And you know what you said, accepting the reality is really key.
• 12:29
  Cheryl: So what would we bring into this?
• 12:30
  Cheryl: This is what I think is real.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 12:32
  Cheryl: And I think it's pervasive.
• 12:34
  Christie: Nobody's
• 12:35
  Cheryl: talking about
• 12:35
  Christie: it.
• 12:36
  Christie: Right.
• 12:36
  Christie: And I, you know, I'm, I'm sitting here remembering Cheryl, asking you when my kids were little for advice on something and you, you gave me some advice.
• 12:45
  Christie: Whenever you say this, always go and, and I'm holding my breath.
• 12:49
  Christie: Was it good
• 12:50
  Cheryl: because it's running we're being
• 12:51
  Christie: recorded,
• 12:51
  Cheryl: right?
• 12:53
  Christie: What was it?
• 12:53
  Christie: Well, it was good.
• 12:54
  Christie: It was a good conversation as most of ours have been.
• 12:57
  Christie: Um, and you giving me, you know, your.
• 13:00
  Christie: How you would handle the situation.
• 13:02
  Christie: And I asked you, well, does, did that work?
• 13:06
  Christie: Does that work?
• 13:07
  Christie: And what did I say?
• 13:08
  Christie: And you said, well, what do you mean?
• 13:10
  Christie: Does it work?
• 13:11
  Christie: Because what I meant by does it work?
• 13:14
  Christie: Was, does.
• 13:16
  Christie: What you just told me to do, make my child easy for me.
• 13:19
  Christie: Ah, do does.
• 13:20
  Christie: Will this remove the inconvenience in my life that I want to remove?
• 13:25
  Christie: Will it make them sing and dance their way to their bedroom to clean as they, you know, whistle while they work?
• 13:31
  Christie: So is this that fix?
• 13:33
  Christie: Yes.
• 13:33
  Christie: And what you responded with was, well, we're not after the fix.
• 13:39
  Christie: What we're after is an opportunity to.
• 13:43
  Christie: help our child grow and mature and strengthen, you know, them in the areas they need strengthen in.
• 13:49
  Christie: And I did not like that answer.
• 13:51
  Christie: I, I wanted you to give me the three steps to make my children sing and dance and do exactly what I wanted them to do.
• 13:57
  Cheryl: Well, and the reason I could say it to you is because I had spent decades of course finding out that didn't work.
• 14:03
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:03
  Cheryl: It didn't work.
• 14:04
  Cheryl: And the other wonderful thing that I found out, and it was interesting'cause I was talking to somebody.
• 14:10
  Cheryl: In their early twenties, and one of the questions they asked me is, did parenting change you?
• 14:16
  Cheryl: Hmm.
• 14:17
  Cheryl: That help that make you a different person?
• 14:18
  Cheryl: That's a good question.
• 14:19
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:20
  Cheryl: And I say, absolutely yes.
• 14:21
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 14:22
  Cheryl: And if I had been able just to get tweak.
• 14:25
  Cheryl: Like, like you do a recipe.
• 14:28
  Cheryl: Mm.
• 14:29
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:29
  Cheryl: Like I, you fix chili and it's too spicy or it's too mild.
• 14:33
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:33
  Cheryl: The next time you make it, you just tweak the recipe a little bit.
• 14:35
  Cheryl: Right.
• 14:36
  Cheryl: And you go, okay, this is perfect.
• 14:38
  Cheryl: I will keep this recipe.
• 14:39
  Cheryl: I'll always do it.
• 14:40
  Cheryl: It doesn't work in parenting?
• 14:41
  Cheryl: No.
• 14:42
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:42
  Cheryl: So what's wonderful is I have been transformed.
• 14:46
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:46
  Cheryl: I am a better person.
• 14:47
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:48
  Cheryl: I have, learned so much from trying to love my children well.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 14:53
  Cheryl: And growing, getting input like what I shared with you, someone sharing, uh, sometimes going, I never thought.
• 15:02
  Cheryl: Of that.
• 15:02
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:02
  Cheryl: I never saw it that way.
• 15:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 15:05
  Cheryl: Um, I remember the first time I heard someone say, I.
• 15:09
  Cheryl: Something and their child did something, they go, oh, that's a good choice.
• 15:13
  Cheryl A: And I thought Oh, I love that word.
• 15:15
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 15:15
  Cheryl A: That carries so much of what I want to do.
• 15:17
  Cheryl A: Rather than saying, good girl, bad girl, or good boy.
• 15:20
  Cheryl A: Yes, you're, oh, you're so smart.
• 15:22
  Cheryl A: Instead saying, what a good choice.
• 15:23
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 15:24
  Cheryl A: Make a good choice.
• 15:25
  Cheryl A: Just that kind of thing.
• 15:27
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 15:27
  Cheryl A: And just as a tiny example, listening to someone else who's been there and learning and it just helped me grow.
• 15:35
  Cheryl A: And this what we're talking about.
• 15:37
  Cheryl A: No, Christie, I don't have anything that just works.
• 15:40
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 15:40
  Cheryl A: Okay.
• 15:41
  Cheryl A: But so what I would suggest, what we're talking about here particularly is reframing what we think about fruit.
• 15:48
  Christie: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 15:50
  Cheryl: That what I want.
• 15:52
  Cheryl: Really and truly, if I'm gonna reframe it, take my time, sit down and write down what is the fruit I want, and then look at that and say, which of these is actually in my control?
• 16:04
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 16:05
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 16:05
  Cheryl: You know, we both happen to be.
• 16:08
  Cheryl: OKC Thunder fans.
• 16:09
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 16:09
  Cheryl: NBA.
• 16:10
  Cheryl: And if you listen to
• 16:11
  Cheryl A: what coach Mark Dagnault says, whether they win or lose, particularly when they lose.
• 16:16
  Cheryl A: Okay.
• 16:17
  Cheryl A: And that's not getting the fruit you want.
• 16:18
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 16:18
  Cheryl A: And there are hundreds of millions of dollars riding on it.
• 16:21
  Cheryl A: Right.
• 16:22
  Cheryl A: And what he says is, we have to control what we can control.
• 16:25
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 16:26
  Cheryl A: So that's where we're gonna focus.
• 16:28
  Cheryl A: And so that's what I would say is if you were that young mom coming to me, or to encourage someone listening.
• 16:35
  Cheryl A: Take some time, write down what is the fruit I want to see and see if I'd written it down.
• 16:40
  Cheryl A: It would've been so unrealistic, right.
• 16:42
  Cheryl A: Of what I wanted.
• 16:43
  Cheryl A: And then I used the Mark Dagnault parenting model to say, well, first....
• 16:49
  Cheryl A: what do I actually have control of?
• 16:52
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 16:52
  Cheryl A: And then cull Out so much,.
• 16:54
  Cheryl A: And then when I get my list down and then ask, is this realistic?
• 16:58
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 16:58
  Cheryl A: For example.
• 17:01
  Cheryl A: Uh, let's say I could control it.
• 17:02
  Cheryl A: I want all of'em to be Harvard grads.
• 17:05
  Cheryl A: Okay.
• 17:05
  Cheryl A: Is that realistic?
• 17:07
  Cheryl A: No, it's not.
• 17:08
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 17:08
  Cheryl A: We can't do that route, or someone doesn't have the gifting and that, whatever it is.
• 17:12
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 17:13
  Cheryl A: So then cull out everything that's unrealistic or, um, is.
• 17:17
  Cheryl A: Apply realism like you're saying.
• 17:19
  Cheryl A: Yeah.
• 17:19
  Cheryl A: What your actual home situation is, what your giftings are, right.
• 17:23
  Cheryl A: A single parent, whatever it is, and then now, okay, this is maybe realistic fruit.
• 17:29
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 17:29
  Cheryl A: Okay, so now I'm gonna reframe it that this is not my goal, but how can I work towards?
• 17:36
  Cheryl A: How can I love, towards?
• 17:38
  Cheryl A: what can I do in this conversation now, in this conversation with this child that's reacting that way With that choice?
• 17:45
  Cheryl A: See, you're using the word choice.
• 17:47
  Cheryl A: Mm-hmm.
• 17:47
  Cheryl A: With that choice, what can I do that might head us?
• 17:51
  Cheryl A: In the direction of this kind of fruit on down the line.
• 17:57
  Christie: I love that, Cheryl, because you're, you're focusing more on the process.
• 18:03
  Christie: There we go.
• 18:03
  Christie: And, and the walking through life with your child at.
• 18:07
  Christie: Any age.
• 18:08
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 18:09
  Christie: And that's, you know, it, it will look different for every age and it will also look different for every child to use.
• 18:15
  Christie: Your, your goal of Harvard graduate example, it may be that that goal or that that desire needs to shift to the fruit I'm after is my children doing their very best to learn from life in every way.
• 18:32
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:32
  Christie: That they have opportunity.
• 18:34
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:34
  Christie: And giving their most of who they are to their.
• 18:38
  Christie: Their experience in education.
• 18:40
  Christie: Yes.
• 18:40
  Christie: And that's gonna look different for every child.
• 18:42
  Christie: I think celebrating.
• 18:43
  Christie: Yeah.
• 18:44
  Christie: The small wins along the way can be part of the process too.
• 18:48
  Christie: That's a really good of like, this was a really hard thing for them in math, and they worked hard at it and they conquered it and now they've mastered the skill.
• 18:56
  Christie: Those kinds of things can encourage you along the way.
• 18:58
  Christie: It's not.
• 18:59
  Christie: That they've aced every math class through their whole Right.
• 19:02
  Christie: You know, school years.
• 19:04
  Christie: But that they've, they've been hard workers and they've pursued it with all they have.
• 19:09
  Christie: That's the win.
• 19:10
  Christie: You know, and I'm listening
• 19:11
  Cheryl: to you say that, and I'm thinking about, let's say whatever fourth grader.
• 19:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 19:17
  Cheryl: That's really struggling.
• 19:18
  Cheryl: I don't know what they do, multiplication or whatever it is.
• 19:21
  Cheryl: They just don't get it.
• 19:23
  Cheryl: And, if I, let's say me, I'm imposing this Harvard grad thing thinking, you've got to get this.
• 19:30
  Cheryl: This is my goal and I wanna superimpose this on you, instead of being that mom.
• 19:37
  Cheryl: That's putting her arm around and saying, wow, you work so hard.
• 19:43
  Cheryl: I'm so proud of that.
• 19:44
  Cheryl: Let's go get an ice cream cone.
• 19:46
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:47
  Cheryl: And that's really the fruit I want of what I would be doing in that child's heart.
• 19:51
  Cheryl: Right.
• 19:51
  Cheryl: Because really that's really what we want is their heart right to be the best it can be.
• 19:57
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 19:57
  Cheryl: And the rest is trappings, and they're nice trappings maybe.
• 20:00
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: But to build, um, a culture where we are.
• 20:05
  Cheryl: Pouring into the heart, and I'm thinking about the heart rather than the trappings.
• 20:11
  Cheryl: Right?
• 20:12
  Cheryl: But also, I can't allow you to do whatever you want to do because I care about your heart.
• 20:16
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 20:17
  Cheryl: And if I let your heart not go back and do the hard work, that's not what the fruit we want in your life either,
• 20:23
  Christie: right?
• 20:24
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:24
  Christie: I think, um, fruit has to look.
• 20:27
  Christie: Like you said at the heart, at their character, the bigger things in life than
• 20:31
  Christie (2): these
• 20:31
  Christie: things That you may be so fixated on.
• 20:34
  Christie: And I think also principles, like life principles.
• 20:38
  Christie: I was just having a conversation with one of my adult kids the other day about bosses.
• 20:42
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 20:43
  Christie: And authority.
• 20:43
  Christie: And she was reminding me something I probably got from you that I don't remember saying, but that's good you did.
• 20:50
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:50
  Christie: Yeah.
• 20:50
  Christie: Um, but she said we would talk to her about.
• 20:54
  Christie: You're, you're having to answer to mom and dad's authority, but someday it'll be a boss's authority or, you know, sometimes it's a teacher's authority over you and that it's the principle of falling into a role that you are to walk in and, and, you know, she's now an adult and remembering that.
• 21:11
  Christie: And I think, wow, if you can look at those things.
• 21:14
  Christie: Yeah.
• 21:14
  Christie: And, and that took.
• 21:15
  Christie: 20 years, you know?
• 21:17
  Christie: And so it wasn't fruit that I saw when I said that maybe when she was seven, she didn't say, oh yes, thank you mother.
• 21:22
  Christie: Now I will excel in every job that I have.
• 21:26
  Christie: Um, so that, I think that's another thing too, is the principles, the process, and we've got a lot of alliteration here, but, um, and, and patience.
• 21:34
  Christie: We'll just throw another P in there
• 21:36
  Cheryl: in parenting.
• 21:37
  Cheryl: There you go.
• 21:39
  Cheryl: That's excellent.
• 21:40
  Cheryl: And because that's really it.
• 21:42
  Cheryl: Most parents, if we slow down a second mm-hmm.
• 21:46
  Cheryl: Everybody would agree with us.
• 21:48
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 21:48
  Cheryl: This is really the fruit we really care about is their heart.
• 21:52
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 21:53
  Cheryl: And for them to succeed themselves in the way God created them to be.
• 21:58
  Cheryl: We just have to do all that stuff where it's not a, not about us.
• 22:02
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:03
  Cheryl: And not what we want.
• 22:05
  Cheryl: Do we have persevere in there?
• 22:07
  Cheryl: It needs to be Okay.
• 22:08
  Cheryl: We'll add it to the list.
• 22:09
  Cheryl: So that's what we do rather than immediate fruit.
• 22:12
  Cheryl: It's the persevering, yeah, for example.
• 22:15
  Cheryl: Go back to my flower garden.
• 22:16
  Cheryl: I'm so excited about what I may have this summer and the beauty that it can offer everybody who drives by.
• 22:23
  Cheryl: I live on a big curve, and so a lot of people drive by my house.
• 22:27
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:27
  Cheryl: And I want to have these beautiful flowers.
• 22:30
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 22:31
  Cheryl: I'm persevering, doing the work hoping to get that but in this case, to let our flowers bloom the way God made them.
• 22:38
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 22:38
  Cheryl: And like I am working it to death, but I'm having to do the garden the way the garden flourishes, not what Cheryl wants.
• 22:46
  Cheryl: Right.
• 22:47
  Cheryl: And so that's, that's just plants.
• 22:50
  Christie: Right.
• 22:51
  Christie: What about our children?
• 22:52
  Christie: But to add onto that, say you do all of these things and the summer, your garden's not beautiful.
• 23:00
  Christie: Say a hailstorm comes in.
• 23:02
  Christie: That's right.
• 23:03
  Christie: You have been changed in the process because you've put, in the time, you've done the work, you've gained knowledge.
• 23:10
  Christie: And next summer's garden might.
• 23:13
  Christie: You'll take all of that into that experience.
• 23:16
  Christie: And so even in the process of.
• 23:18
  Christie: Parenting our children.
• 23:20
  Christie: Yes.
• 23:20
  Christie: We are being changed also.
• 23:22
  Christie: Yes.
• 23:22
  Christie: That's the deal.
• 23:23
  Cheryl: Like going back to that young 20 something, I go absolutely.
• 23:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:27
  Cheryl: I can't even imagine what I would be like if I hadn't had children or I had children that were the cookie cutter thing.
• 23:37
  Cheryl: Right.
• 23:38
  Cheryl: And I was never challenged.
• 23:39
  Cheryl: Where would I develop perseverance?
• 23:41
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm.
• 23:41
  Cheryl: Where would I, all the Ps that we just talked about, and.
• 23:46
  Cheryl: Priority?
• 23:47
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 23:47
  Cheryl: I nobody said that, that the children are the priority and who they
• 23:51
  Christie: are.
• 23:51
  Christie: Mm-hmm.
• 23:52
  Christie: Not what I want.
• 23:53
  Christie: Right.
• 23:54
  Christie: And I think when we, when we give up control of what would like to see, um, the fruit is actually, it comes from the faithfulness over a long period of time.
• 24:06
  Christie: There we go.
• 24:06
  Christie: For our kids and for ourselves.
• 24:08
  Christie: I totally
• 24:09
  Cheryl: agree.
• 24:10
  Cheryl: Excellent.
• 24:11
  Cheryl: This is encouraging to me.
• 24:13
  Christie: Yeah, it encouraged me too.
• 24:16
  Cheryl: So parents, hang in there.
• 24:19
  Cheryl: Keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: Parenting includes stretches of loving and giving without much fruit showing up yet.
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: At least not in ways we can easily point to, but that's not a parenting failure.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: It is what love looks like when it lasts longer than the feedback.
• 24:49
  Speaker 2: Most of us thought it would feel more rewarding along the way.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: Instead, it often ask us to keep showing up without much to hold onto.
• 25:02
  Speaker 2: If that's where you are now, listen to me.
• 25:07
  Speaker 2: You are not doing something wrong.
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: You are doing something hard.
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: Keep it up.
• 25:19
  Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: If you'd like to reach out at contact@theparentingpodcast.com.
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: I am really glad you were here.