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Fraggle Talk: Back to the Rock - Ep. 210 "Fraggle Up" · Muppet Fan Podcasts with ToughPigs.com

• 0:09
  Hello and welcome to Fraggle Talk Back to the Rock, the
• 0:12
  unofficial Fraggle Rock podcast brought to you by toughpigs.com.
• 0:16
  This is the podcast where we cover Fraggle Rock Back to the
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  Rock episode by episode, along with the talented producers,
• 0:22
  performers, writers and builders who helped put it all together.
• 0:25
  I am your host, silly creature Johannes.
• 0:29
  Today we are talking about Season 2 Episode 10, Fraggle Up,
• 0:34
  in which we have no time for emotions, only action.
• 0:38
  This week we have two very special guests.
• 0:40
  First up back from last week, he performs the voice and face of
• 0:44
  everyone's favorite despot, Pennsylvania Gorg.
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  It's Frank Mescalite. Hello, Frank.
• 0:50
  Hey, guys. Thanks for having me, Joe.
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  So good to have you back here and our 2nd guest performs the
• 0:56
  voice in face of everyone's favorite despot in training,
• 0:59
  Junior Gorg. It's Dan Garza.
• 1:01
  Hello, Dan. What a despot in training.
• 1:05
  Oh, I mean, kinda right. Like he's the king of the
• 1:08
  universe. Yeah.
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  You think that's bad? I was.
• 1:11
  I was pretty sure Joe said Dustbot and I was going, yeah,
• 1:15
  that's also Dustbot. I mean, that kind of happens in
• 1:18
  this episode, right? Like there's a.
• 1:19
  Bit of a dust. But I don't know.
• 1:22
  I would categorize junior as more like a senior Gorg gardener
• 1:27
  of the of the grounds, but you know, despot and training to
• 1:30
  that I can work. With that, Yeah, yeah.
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  I mean, if, if this show follows the pattern of the original
• 1:35
  Fraggle Rock, then, you know, we might end this series with with
• 1:39
  Junior, you know, kind of graduating into being king of
• 1:41
  the universe as well, which means that somehow being the
• 1:45
  gardener is training for that role.
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  Question mark. Yeah, maybe not if it's a mash
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  up and he becomes the gardener of the universe.
• 1:54
  Oh. We could do that, No, but you
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  don't. Think.
• 1:57
  There is, there is something to that Joe, because, you know, the
• 2:02
  way, that, the way that Junior tends his garden is the way he
• 2:05
  lives his life. You know, he, it's, it's full
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  of, it's full of care and empathy and treating everything,
• 2:11
  you know, with, with the appropriate need, you know, the,
• 2:15
  the, the, the carrots different from the potatoes and the, the
• 2:18
  potatoes different from the, you know, strawberries and all that
• 2:21
  stuff. So it, it's, yeah, I, I think
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  it, I think they could work together like this perspective
• 2:26
  on gardening and life. I think that's the next book I'm
• 2:29
  writing, I guess. Well, especially because like
• 2:33
  paws, a strategy for for the garden is just pour gorgomax on
• 2:38
  it, which is also very pot like. Yeah.
• 2:40
  Don't change, double up. Right, exactly.
• 2:44
  Which I actually have Gorgomax here.
• 2:46
  I have some I I acquired some while on set and I have some
• 2:52
  Gorgomax here. When you say you have some
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  gorgomax you have like like a jar of dirt.
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  Like what is? It like Gorgon Max, it's it, it,
• 3:00
  it's all magical, you know, you see it on the show, but I got a
• 3:03
  little, a little bag of it and I have it here, Yeah.
• 3:07
  That's kind of nice. That's a good question.
• 3:09
  I, I probably, I probably should be asking everybody this as
• 3:12
  they're on this podcast, but what did you walk away from,
• 3:14
  with the, from the set? If you're, if you're able to
• 3:17
  tell? Frank, do you want to go first?
• 3:22
  How about a prevailing sense of pride for a wonderful show?
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  What was that? Oh yeah, that's an answer A.
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  Couple of puppets snuck in too, yeah.
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  That's a. Great non binding answer.
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  Yeah, I I don't think I took any any physical stuff.
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  I had some bits of the rock that had chipped off when they were
• 3:41
  breaking everything down. But you know, there's a point in
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  your life where you go. I got so much stuff, I don't
• 3:47
  know what to do with it and just bring in more stuff.
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  It seems like a poor idea. But Dan, I think you you besides
• 3:53
  that Gorgon Max, you probably have something else you took.
• 3:55
  I, I got a few things actually when they're, when they were
• 4:00
  tearing down the, the Gorg's castle for season 1.
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  I got a little chunk for me and a chunk for Benny.
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  And so I have that, which is a little bit of the magic.
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  I, I have some Gorgon mags. I was given some radishes by
• 4:16
  our, by our props team. Yeah.
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  And then people just like who found this, I thought you'd like
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  it. So I have a little like a little
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  shadow box that that I have here with, with various things that
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  yeah, I walked away with. So.
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  It's nice. That's nice.
• 4:30
  You guys deserve that and more for sure.
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  But yeah, maybe walking out with with puppets, that's a bit much.
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  And, and yeah, I took duplicates of all of the all of the
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  puppets. All of them, yeah.
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  Right, I actually I do I there is something I took.
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  There were beautiful posters on the wall and while everyone was
• 4:48
  busy I just went and hogged the best ones I could find.
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  Like real posters or props? Real they were.
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  They were show posters. There's one back here.
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  I don't think, I don't think you could see it 'cause I have to
• 5:00
  use my phone today. I have no Wi-Fi.
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  There it is. See that little?
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  There's a booty. Oh.
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  Yeah, yeah, you're pointing at a Boober poster.
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  Yeah, there's another one downstairs that just magically
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  made its way into my suitcase. We had those, we had the the
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  production team would put those all along the corridors.
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  So you'd walk in and it wasn't just some stale sound stage.
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  You would walk through the hallways and they had printed
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  out either either, you know, promotional posters or things
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  that we had shot earlier in the season.
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  And it was fantastic. You walk in and you just felt
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  there were, you know, big one of Jim and yeah, it was, it was
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  fantastic to to walk in and be welcomed by that and have a, it
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  felt like, it felt like you're walking into your home and not
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  just a, a workplace, you know. Well, especially for those of us
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  who our homes are already decorated by like big posters of
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  Jim Henson and Fraggles and stuff like that.
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  So the You 2 are two out of the Three Gorgs.
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  Speaking, of course, specifically about the you know
• 6:04
  most everything above the neck because there's other performers
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  for the bodies. I'd love to hear more about how
• 6:11
  the two of you work together and playoff each other when you're
• 6:14
  on set. OK, Well, I will say that
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  working with Dan was great because what we would do before
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  a scene was we would rehearse without the Gorgs heads on so
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  that they were just in the suit so they could see us and we
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  could see them. Usually Dan or I would go, oh,
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  you know, it'd be great for the theme.
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  Junior comes over and paw hits in the head and show or whatever
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  the bid is. We'd work something out quick
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  between us because one of us had inspiration.
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  And then we'd go and fill in our our folk in the suit, Andy
• 6:42
  Hayward in the case of of a paw. And then we'd walk it through in
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  the rehearsal and try and make that stick.
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  And because Dan and I would stand beside each other when we
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  were performing the voice in the face off camera, we could modify
• 6:56
  that last minute and we had a, a mic connection to an earpiece to
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  our suit performers. We could say, you know, Andy,
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  hold off until, until junior says, aw, shucks.
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  And then do that thing that we talked about.
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  So there's always that way to work to, to prove things and to
• 7:13
  find the funny in it up until the last minute.
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  And Dan's, Dan's great for that. I love working with Dan.
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  Yeah, likewise with with Frank and and, and Amy for, for that
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  matter, you know, it's, it's, it's a tremendous collaboration
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  between 66 consummate professionals.
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  I've included myself in that mix as as well you should.
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  Yes, thanks. I appreciate that.
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  My therapist says the same thing.
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  So that's, that's good encouragement.
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  But yeah, through the six of us making these, the this family
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  unit cohesive and, and, and feel completely real.
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  It's it's all collaborative. So Frank and I will be it will
• 8:00
  will be whispering at the same time that, you know, Andy,
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  Ingrid and and and Benny are are are are, you know, they're all
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  conspiring on their end. And then we come together and we
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  coalesce with this, with this thing that ends up being, you
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  know, living, breathing and, and quite natural.
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  And, and kudos to, to our suit performers for rolling with some
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  of the improvisational punches that we do like, you know, the,
• 8:27
  the occasional or the, the, and, and being able to like, Oh, it
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  just felt right in the moment. And having that bond with, with
• 8:38
  our, with, with our counterparts allows us to, to feel safe
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  enough to improvise things that just feel right in the scene,
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  like, you know, a reaction to something or, or, you know, a
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  little wiggle, a little dance, something like that.
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  And and working with Frank because he's not only a wealth
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  of, of fragile knowledge, having been in, in junior in the
• 9:02
  original series, but but also as a just a very intuitive and
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  technical performer. It's I've grown by leaps and
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  bounds just just by sheer osmosis.
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  Just by smelling me. Yeah, yeah.
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  You know, Frank has a wide range of smells.
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  Are you still going to bottle that?
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  You still going to bottle? That for well, we haven't found
• 9:27
  a glass material strong enough to contain all the odors, but we
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  are working on it. And hey, I just, I just didn't
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  interrupt. There was something we used to
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  say on set with the Gorg performers between the the guy
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  in the suit or the person in the suit, excuse me and the, and the
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  operator from outside was 2 brains, one straw.
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  So the notion is that that the body was driving the the
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  dialogue forward just as much as the voice in the animation on
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  the face was. And, and, and it's kind of like,
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  I've thought about this a lot since then too.
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  It's like you're pulling me, I'm pulling you, you're pulling me,
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  I'm pulling you. And when that happens, it's
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  indistinguishable that there are is one person operating the
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  voice and face in a separate entire human operating inside
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  the body. And you and I think we hit it
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  almost well, let's say, let's say quite often.
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  But when you look at it really technically like like I like,
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  I'm sure Dan's the same way. You can't help but go, oh, we
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  just missed that beat by a fraction of a second.
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  I doubt people watching it would.
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  But but it's really a critical component of making the suit
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  work. Is that what's the word like the
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  symbiotic relationship between the two people.
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  And when it's when it works, it's perfect and you don't even
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  notice it because it's just working.
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  SO2 brains, one straw. Yeah, you got a hat that says
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  that, don't you? Yeah.
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  No, I got you that hat, remember?
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  Oh, yeah, you did. Yeah, you did.
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  And I said that twice in exactly the same cadence.
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  I don't know why, but yeah, I do.
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  I have that hat. I do.
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  Thank you, Dan. It sounds kind of dirty if you
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  don't, if you don't. Like if I saw you on the street
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  and I didn't know what that meant. 2 brains one stride.
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  Might think that's all dirty, but.
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  Oh, well, yeah, Johnny's head says I, I see heads, guys.
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  And he's like, I, I can't wear this in public.
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  I without having to explain it to everyone.
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  Yeah, yeah, I had to. I had to mask and tape it out,
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  but it's still a nice hat. Great.
• 11:22
  So, but yeah, that's we also bring up a couple of good points
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  here with, you know, Frank, you as we've established, you played
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  the body of Junior Gorg in the 5th, the final season of the
• 11:32
  original Fragile Rock. Dan, do you have a like a
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  similar experience just to like know what it's like being that
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  kind of suit puppetry performer just so that you can to help you
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  get into like Ben Duurchet's head a little bit more?
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  Yeah, I mean, my, my other experience with because I played
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  the body of of of dunk on splash and bubbles.
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  So being being besties is is kind of a cool thing to to, to
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  bring into it. I did.
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  I did some suit performing in in my day.
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  So I have some some point of reference of how claustrophobic
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  it is and how you have to just roll with the punches and you
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  what you can see is what you can see and all of that.
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  I was determined to get into the suit season 2, which again
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  didn't happen, Frank. It was like one of those things
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  I was like, Oh yeah, now I can get in the suit and it just the
• 12:32
  stars just didn't align. So if we get season 3, I
• 12:35
  definitely want to get in and feel that 18 LB head on my on
• 12:40
  helmet on my head. As I recall, I took a bullet for
• 12:42
  you there, Dan, and I jumped in the suit so that you and Ben
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  could get a picture of animated Junior instead of a deflated
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  sack of Gorg. And when they, when they put the
• 12:52
  suit, you know, put the shoes and put the thing and put my
• 12:54
  arms in the hand. All right, this all feels good.
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  And then the head came on. I was like, that's a little
• 12:58
  heavier than I recall. And they started to close it.
• 13:01
  And on the last snap I was like, yeah, just leave that one open,
• 13:04
  OK. I just, I, I couldn't, I was
• 13:06
  getting really closed. I've done a ton of body suits,
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  but that was a lot of weight. Hats off to Ben, man.
• 13:12
  That was a lot of stuff to spin around on your head and up, you
• 13:14
  know, nod up and down. And curiously, though, when they
• 13:19
  switched the head on and I could hear the servos because they're
• 13:21
  right by your ears and all around your head and all you
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  hear is I totally calmed me out. It was like this Zen track.
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  I was like, oh, yeah, this, I get it.
• 13:30
  And and then I was OK. And we got some nice pictures of
• 13:33
  you and Ben and and Junior, so I can hear the ocean exactly.
• 13:40
  Gorge white noise there. Yeah.
• 13:42
  Yeah. Those servos in your ears.
• 13:45
  So, Dan, throughout this podcast, so we've been recording
• 13:48
  here, a lot of people have been crediting you with some of the
• 13:51
  more fun background gags. Like this is like, I'll point
• 13:54
  out, like, oh, there's someone doing something funny back
• 13:55
  there. And they'll be like, that was
• 13:57
  Dan Garza. Is there a secret to what you do
• 14:01
  to like, find that sort of fun without upstaging whatever's
• 14:04
  happening in the foreground? Absolutely.
• 14:07
  My intention is to upstage. I know I'm doing it.
• 14:12
  I, I know I've gotten to that line when, when I hear or, or
• 14:17
  someone approaches me because they normally don't like, hey,
• 14:20
  whatever's doing that crap in the backstop.
• 14:22
  And normally it'll be either one of one of our, one of our
• 14:27
  assistant directors or one of our captains comes up and like,
• 14:31
  Hey, can you just tone that down just a little bit?
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  And my, my whole focus is whatever's happening right now,
• 14:42
  right here and now with this background character is, is his
• 14:46
  entire or their entire world. That's, that's all they're
• 14:50
  doing. You know, whether it, if it's,
• 14:53
  if it's a, if it's an ink spot lounging on on a bed of rocks
• 14:59
  while young Uncle Matt is, is, you know, becoming the center of
• 15:05
  attention, or it's, it's a, you know, a critter that is, is
• 15:11
  falling asleep somewhere and has just had a really long day.
• 15:16
  You just got to find the little, the little bit of, of life and
• 15:20
  stick to it. And whatever else is happening
• 15:22
  may or may not affect this, this character's world.
• 15:26
  So it's it's just I like those those little, those little
• 15:29
  snapshots or vignettes of like, Oh yeah, that's, that's just
• 15:33
  normal life for that, for that critter.
• 15:36
  And then, you know, every once in a while I'll find the funny
• 15:38
  in it. But you know, I look back and I
• 15:41
  think, oh, shoot, I could have done this.
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  Or damn it, they didn't take that, that they didn't take that
• 15:45
  shot, you know, that that's, I worked so hard to, you know,
• 15:49
  thread that needle and you know, it got Oh yeah.
• 15:52
  And and you have to, you know, not everything is going to make
• 15:55
  it to scream. So you do as much as you can.
• 15:59
  We did there was there there was a prevailing attitude that that
• 16:03
  bled out of the original series as well, which was that this is
• 16:06
  it's not just the Fraggle 5 and a bunch of people zombie walking
• 16:09
  back and forth. It's a village.
• 16:11
  Everybody has a task. And so when we were working with
• 16:13
  the the great Calgary puppeteers who we had to delight of working
• 16:16
  with, I would say to look, no matter what the scene, your
• 16:19
  guy's got a goal, he's getting from A to B or he's thinking
• 16:22
  about what he's, you know, have a conscious effort.
• 16:25
  Make it make a conscious effort to have a task.
• 16:27
  If it's picking up apples, if you're tickling your friend with
• 16:29
  a feather or maybe you're just walking through frame, that can
• 16:32
  happen as well. But we used to work really hard
• 16:34
  when I was on the original series and I was playing deep
• 16:37
  background, similar to what Dan was saying.
• 16:40
  We'd make whole little stories. One guy's leaning on the shovel.
• 16:42
  The guy beside him is digging a hole.
• 16:44
  When the guy's done digging a hole, he walks away.
• 16:46
  The guy leaning on the shovel takes 2 steps forward and drops
• 16:48
  down the hole. And so there were all these bits
• 16:50
  of shtick that were going on in the background that I thought
• 16:53
  were absolutely delightful. And I think they fill out the
• 16:55
  the story 'cause you can watch back to the rock and you see
• 16:59
  stuff happening in the background.
• 17:00
  So did you just did he just. And it's great.
• 17:03
  And that's how life in the village works.
• 17:06
  Dan is notorious for finding the the best spot to park his ink
• 17:11
  spot and and milk it for some juicy comedy goodness.
• 17:17
  Yeah. And like, for me especially,
• 17:19
  we're like, this is maybe my third and 4th rewatch of each of
• 17:22
  these episodes. And, you know, I'm, I get to
• 17:25
  really spend more time looking at what's happening in the
• 17:26
  background. And like, it's such a joy for
• 17:28
  me. And it's so much more
• 17:29
  interesting than, you know, if the Fraggles were just, you
• 17:32
  know, peas and carrots, peas and carrots, watermelon, watermelon
• 17:35
  in the background and do well. Do either of you have any
• 17:39
  favorite moments that maybe even if they didn't make it into the
• 17:43
  final episode where you're like, oh, I came up with this really
• 17:46
  great story, or I came up with this really great thing that I
• 17:48
  could do with the puppet I. Got one.
• 17:50
  I got one. Just thinking about Dan and the
• 17:53
  Ink Spots. Forget the song, it's red song.
• 17:56
  She's running through the rock. It's a topsy, topsy turvy race,
• 18:00
  I think. Something like that.
• 18:02
  Topsy Tourney thumb. Thought that's it.
• 18:05
  So it's a big race, Red's gotta win cause Red's red and Red's
• 18:08
  way ahead. But everyone's kind of hot on
• 18:10
  her heels and large Marvin comes through frame and he's got his
• 18:14
  track pants on in his tracksuit. And he walks up to a ink spot
• 18:19
  was holding a glass of water. And he grabs the whole ink spot
• 18:22
  by the back of the neck and then drinks the water out of the, you
• 18:25
  know, out of the jug that the ink spot is holding and sets it
• 18:28
  back down. I think you were on that ink
• 18:29
  spot, Dan. I, I don't, I don't recall that
• 18:31
  it, it's possible, but I it and I won't take credit for it.
• 18:34
  No, no, I I refuse. But that was a, that was a fun
• 18:38
  bit. Yeah, it was a good bit.
• 18:41
  Yeah, one thing I there's that one ink spot that's like feather
• 18:46
  dusting and he's he's just the whole scene, he's just
• 18:50
  feathered. I don't remember what episode it
• 18:52
  is, but he's just feather dusting feather he's in the
• 18:54
  foreground. And Johnny was like go to town.
• 18:56
  And one thing that didn't make it was he's he's dusting, he's
• 19:00
  dusting, he's dusting. And when he finishes, he puts
• 19:03
  the the the feather duster under himself and he flies away like,
• 19:07
  like a like a witch's room. Witch's Room.
• 19:09
  Yeah, I don't think that made it.
• 19:12
  I didn't make it, but I was like, Oh yeah, that.
• 19:15
  Yeah. And I was like, maybe that's
• 19:17
  that's going a little too far, but.
• 19:19
  You know, he's playing Quidditch.
• 19:21
  Yeah, he's. Honestly, you know, there's
• 19:25
  magic all over Fregle Rock. Why not a Witch Ink spot?
• 19:29
  Yeah, I'm. I'm here for it.
• 19:30
  All right, so speaking, Speaking of Fraggle magic, let's talk
• 19:34
  about this episode. So we open in Doc's workshop.
• 19:39
  Doc is acting suspiciously nice to Sprocket because she's got
• 19:44
  news for him that he doesn't want to hear.
• 19:45
  Mrs. Shomolfini has jury duty and asks if they could watch her
• 19:49
  cat Fluff Anella. As many people know, Fluffanella
• 19:53
  is a character from the original series who appeared in three
• 19:56
  episodes of the old Fraggle Rock, starting with the episode
• 19:59
  Wembley and the Gorgs. Now, Fluffanella is kind of
• 20:03
  meant to not be seen, but have you ever seen a picture of the
• 20:06
  original Fluffanella puppet? Like it's horrifying.
• 20:09
  I I held the original Fluffanella because as Christie
• 20:13
  Holt was was rebuilding for, for the new season, I got to hold it
• 20:18
  and it actually, it felt like a taxidermied cat that had come
• 20:22
  back to life and then was yeah, yeah, it was frightening,
• 20:27
  frightening. And, like, put together wrong,
• 20:29
  you know, like the eyes don't look right and the mouth is too
• 20:32
  wide and, yeah, doesn't even look very Hensiny.
• 20:37
  But it's also appropriately terrifying.
• 20:40
  Yeah. And so that Fluffinella was
• 20:45
  performed by Karen Perel. Do you know who performs
• 20:47
  Fluffinella in this episode? Ingrid Hansen.
• 20:50
  Ingrid Hansen. She's good at her job with that
• 20:53
  Ingrid Hansen. She did a great job.
• 20:55
  Whatever you put Ingrid on, puppet wise, she is.
• 20:57
  She's alarmingly good, yeah. Yeah.
• 21:01
  And what we see here is Ingrid as Flunfenella is just kind of
• 21:05
  taking the tail and having like all we see is the tail walking
• 21:08
  into Doc's workshop, which. It's very Jaws ask.
• 21:12
  It is well, especially because like when Flunfenella eventually
• 21:16
  attacks Sprocket, each time she attacks Sprocket, it's it's
• 21:20
  horrifying. Like, it really is scary in that
• 21:23
  Jaws kind of way. You know, like there's the the
• 21:25
  one shot where Sprocket's behind the couch and, like, he thinks
• 21:30
  that vanilla. Yeah.
• 21:32
  Right before the shadow scene where like, he sees the tail,
• 21:34
  like kind of directly in front of him, and then the tail
• 21:36
  disappears and then he gets attacked.
• 21:40
  But before we get into all that stuff, one thing that I I have
• 21:44
  to give some props to here is whoever's costuming Sprocket in
• 21:48
  these scenes. Because first we see him wearing
• 21:51
  like, like aviator sunglasses and a denim vest, trying to look
• 21:54
  so cool. And then later with like a
• 21:57
  muscle shirt and a bandana, kind of this Hulk Hogan look.
• 22:01
  It's so cool. Like, so deliberately uncool,
• 22:04
  but cool. I love it.
• 22:08
  Thanks to our our Wranglers and and and our our folks in in
• 22:12
  wardrobe for making those things happen, you know?
• 22:16
  Yeah, channelling, channelling a little Fonzie at first.
• 22:20
  Here. Goes full WWF.
• 22:22
  That's right. And like learning new ways to, I
• 22:26
  don't know, find. I mean, the theme that we've got
• 22:29
  here in throughout this episode is, is toxic masculinity.
• 22:33
  And Sprocket is like trying to figure out like how to be a man
• 22:37
  and stand up to this cat. And you know, he's working out
• 22:39
  with the with the dog toys, like their weights.
• 22:42
  And then he puts on like this air of cool.
• 22:45
  And then, like, he still is freaked out, like he can't,
• 22:47
  can't tamper that down that fear.
• 22:52
  And yeah, as you said, like we'll kind of jump around with
• 22:55
  this this plot a little bit. But we see, you know, first
• 22:59
  Fluffanella attacks him and then later on in the episode,
• 23:01
  Fluffanella attacks again. And it's this great shadow
• 23:03
  puppet play where like the light's shining on them, which,
• 23:08
  you know, just to see any sort of Henson property tackling
• 23:13
  different types of puppetry is always satisfying because it's
• 23:17
  not just, you know, like Jim Henson style, you know, monitor
• 23:21
  puppets. I've I really appreciate that.
• 23:24
  And to show like, you know, something a little bit
• 23:27
  different, especially when we're not supposed to see Fluffinella.
• 23:30
  I feel like it's really, it's really effective for either of
• 23:34
  you on on any of this, this stock and sprocket stuff for
• 23:38
  this episode. I wasn't.
• 23:40
  I was I was helping out with Sprocket.
• 23:43
  It was mainly Johnny Tartaglia, or as I call him, Johnny
• 23:46
  Tarfraglia. Hello.
• 23:50
  And, and Jordan Lockhart and I think Karen Perrell was in there
• 23:53
  as well. Ingrid was on Fluffanella.
• 23:59
  I just want to point out there's a beautiful shot that sets this
• 24:02
  up where Fluffanella is kind of stalking Sprocket, and then
• 24:07
  Sprocket loses track of where Fluffanella is and then hears
• 24:10
  something. His ears go up and he looks up
• 24:12
  and there's a shot of Fluffanella flying into camera
• 24:15
  just before. I love that shot.
• 24:18
  She she lands on Sprite. It's a great shot.
• 24:19
  Sets the whole thing up. And then, of course, Doc has her
• 24:21
  headphones on, is listening to music and doesn't get that
• 24:24
  there's, you know, chaos, bedlam, cats and dogs fighting.
• 24:29
  And it's a that's a that's a terrific scene, though, the
• 24:31
  whole. Thing, Frank, do you know if if
• 24:32
  they shot that, if they shot that straight ahead or was it in
• 24:36
  reverse like Wizard of Oz? Yeah, I, I honestly, Dan, I, I
• 24:41
  wasn't there for that. That was a Fluffanella only
• 24:43
  shot. And I should have looked at it
• 24:44
  more closely because, because the, the feeling I had when I
• 24:47
  saw the shot, just when I watched the episode again this
• 24:49
  morning, was that there was a ceiling, which there wasn't.
• 24:52
  So I'm not quite sure if that was comped after or I'd have to
• 24:56
  look at it again. But it's very effective because
• 24:58
  you've got the feeling, feeling that this cat had literally
• 25:01
  clawed its way up the walls, hung up by its claws on the
• 25:03
  ceiling, and then just dropped down on top of Boris Brocket.
• 25:08
  And like, specifically to terrorize Sprocket.
• 25:11
  Like it's not like she's trying to get anything from him.
• 25:13
  Like she just wants to mess with him.
• 25:15
  It's so cruel. The reason that the reason that
• 25:18
  I ask is because it's so perfectly framed, like you can
• 25:21
  see everything. And, and it's kind of like that,
• 25:26
  that I brought up a Wizard of Oz when they dropped the house
• 25:30
  where they painted the, the floor of the sound stage and put
• 25:33
  the camera on the on the ceiling and then dropped the house And,
• 25:37
  and then they just did it in reverse.
• 25:39
  So when the house comes down, it's that.
• 25:41
  So I was wondering what maybe they did.
• 25:43
  Maybe they shot it in reverse because the framing is just
• 25:47
  perfect, unless they dropped it, just really got it after take
• 25:51
  after take, because it's, it's gorgeous.
• 25:53
  The framing is perfect. I mean, I can see them.
• 25:55
  I can see how easy it might be to string up the puppet because
• 25:59
  it's just an armature cat, You know, you don't need a hand in
• 26:02
  there and, you know, just put the camera straight up, drop it.
• 26:06
  You could drop it 20 times within a minute, you know, until
• 26:08
  you get it right. But also to your point, it'll be
• 26:11
  so much easier to just like put Fluffanella on there, hoist, and
• 26:14
  then, yeah, joink it later on. Doc and Sprocket have this big
• 26:19
  heart to heart. And there's we also get a great
• 26:21
  shot of Sprocket has been relegated to the the loft area
• 26:24
  and we get to see an armatured, I'm sorry, not an armatured
• 26:27
  radio controlled sprocket puppet in the what did you call it?
• 26:35
  I said sprocket. Yeah, it's just.
• 26:36
  Oh, you just said sprocket for some reason I thought you said
• 26:38
  some sort of like portmanteau name for sprocket, like the RC
• 26:43
  controlled sprocket. Like like that's the rocket
• 26:46
  sprocket, which is a totally different thing.
• 26:49
  But yeah, we see the the radio controlled sprockets, which
• 26:52
  again, like so many different puppetry styles.
• 26:54
  I love seeing all that in this episode.
• 26:56
  And they have a conversation about like, you know, you got to
• 26:58
  admit when you're afraid and etcetera, etcetera.
• 27:00
  And like also, you know, we'll get into this later with the
• 27:03
  Fraggles. But like, Sprocket is very much
• 27:05
  justified in being afraid because not only is he being
• 27:08
  attacked by this cat, but Doc at one point was not really much of
• 27:13
  A help because she had her headphones on.
• 27:15
  So he kind of feels like he's out relying on himself to be
• 27:19
  safe. We know that even if he goes up
• 27:20
  to the loft, that Fluffanella can get up there.
• 27:23
  She can climb on the ceiling like she's, she's a monster.
• 27:29
  And then, like, in the middle of this whole thing, while Doc is
• 27:32
  trying to explain this, you know, admitting your feelings to
• 27:35
  Sprocket, we get this amazing shot of Fluffanella smacking
• 27:39
  against the window from outside and then slowly sliding down.
• 27:44
  And it is chilling. Yes, I love it yeah, it's it's
• 27:49
  it's beautiful because the you can see that it's it's basically
• 27:52
  2 takes because when she first first hits that window, her
• 27:57
  mouth is closed and then when she's sliding down her mouth is
• 28:00
  is it reveals. So I love that slow build of
• 28:04
  like shunk. Look at my eyes, look at my eyes
• 28:07
  and now look at my teeth. Look at how I slide down this
• 28:10
  window. Oh.
• 28:10
  And then there's a nice bit of that window squeaking.
• 28:14
  Yeah. It goes down.
• 28:16
  Yeah, Yeah. That's great.
• 28:18
  So, yeah, so now we're all afraid of Fluffanella.
• 28:21
  I think if we're going to talk about our feelings here, I will
• 28:24
  admit that Fluffanella scares me.
• 28:26
  I don't like it. Yeah.
• 28:29
  Yeah, although I would watch the spin off series where there 1.
• 28:33
  A Fluffanella spin off. Fluffanella, back to the Rock.
• 28:38
  Whoa. Yeah.
• 28:41
  But we'll kind of explore what happens in the Shimelfinny
• 28:44
  household. Yeah.
• 28:46
  Yeah. And And because we never see
• 28:50
  Missus Shimelfinny and we barely see Fluffenella, it's just an
• 28:53
  empty set for 22 minutes. Nothing but feet.
• 28:57
  That's right. Feet and tail.
• 29:00
  People calling out from from off stage, It's like a Yule log.
• 29:05
  You know, all of a sudden, Halloween.
• 29:13
  So come over to the Fraggles in the Great Hall.
• 29:16
  Gobo was calling a very serious meeting to discuss the radish
• 29:19
  situation. It is heavy duty, tutti frutti,
• 29:22
  so he says. I love that all the Fraggles are
• 29:24
  there, including the Grizzard and Lanford and Gluey Rudy.
• 29:29
  Who? Frank?
• 29:30
  That's one of your characters, Gluey Rudy.
• 29:34
  Yeah. He's a.
• 29:35
  Silliest, funnest puppet to do 'cause it's just a little like a
• 29:39
  little rubber finger with a face and mouse, and there's so much
• 29:43
  to get out of it. Despite the simplicity of the
• 29:45
  operation. It's a single rod with a
• 29:47
  trigger, but you push up on the rod, the head goes up and you
• 29:49
  pull down, it kind of scrunches up and you move the rod side to
• 29:52
  side. It kind of it's like a like 1/2
• 29:54
  a worm. And then he's got these
• 29:55
  tentacles that are stuck on the rock.
• 29:57
  He's fun to do. I love that he's he's the kind
• 30:01
  of character, there's been a lot of characters we've noticed
• 30:03
  where like they've got like the the workshop is obviously built
• 30:06
  an entire puppet just to be seen on screen for a few seconds.
• 30:09
  And that could have been Gluey Rudy.
• 30:12
  But I love that he is making appearances throughout the
• 30:16
  season because he's just such a little guy.
• 30:18
  And he's rude. That's his whole thing.
• 30:21
  Yeah, just rude. And he's little when he when he.
• 30:23
  Shows up when he sticks on on Moki's tail when Moki comes
• 30:26
  running into her and Red's room and he's like this is all you
• 30:29
  got. Not much room for two, huh?
• 30:31
  He was just, you know, he's really like, he's.
• 30:35
  Not really. Impressed with the scale of
• 30:37
  their their dwelling, which is such a weird thing for a little
• 30:40
  2 inch worm to pick up on. Yeah.
• 30:43
  Especially when Yeah. Not much room.
• 30:44
  Like he's got all the room he needs.
• 30:46
  He's only this big. Yeah.
• 30:50
  So Buber introduces Cotterpin into the meeting to everybody.
• 30:53
  And this is such a great moment. This is this is definitely a
• 30:56
  series high for me. This is Moki is excited to see
• 31:00
  Kotterpin. And she's like, Kotterpin, How
• 31:03
  you living, girl? And Kotterpin's like, have we
• 31:05
  met? Yeah.
• 31:07
  Yeah, and just that little exchange of like, oh, we're.
• 31:09
  Very close and Kotterpin's like we are and Moki says, well we
• 31:14
  should be. And it's like, I love it.
• 31:18
  Makes so much sense for these two characters because Moki is
• 31:21
  so like, oh everyone loves everyone and Kotterpin's like
• 31:23
  business only. But also knowing they're both
• 31:26
  performed by Donna and the old show they were both performed by
• 31:28
  Karen. Excuse me, Kathy Mullen.
• 31:31
  Oh my God, Kathy. Mullen, thank you.
• 31:33
  Yeah, they're both performed by Kathy Mullen.
• 31:35
  And like, yes, they should be friends because there's all this
• 31:38
  back behind the scenes stuff, but we just got a little nod,
• 31:42
  that little little 4th wall pushing.
• 31:44
  I guess they inhabit the same brain.
• 31:46
  Space, Yeah, yes. Exactly.
• 31:49
  They're roomies. They're roomies.
• 31:52
  Oh, in the brain, yeah 2. Brains one straw, right?
• 31:55
  In a different way. 2 straws one brain, one of those.
• 32:01
  You're right. Yeah, sure.
• 32:03
  So Cotterpin introduces her idea of using these hydroponics that
• 32:06
  we we learned about in a recent episode to grow new radishes.
• 32:13
  And I love that Icy Joe is she's so excited to see that the
• 32:17
  Fraggles are the Fraggles and Doozers are working together.
• 32:19
  And she says, and to think, in my day, we ate them.
• 32:23
  I'm really. Surprised.
• 32:24
  That line stayed in. I really AM.
• 32:27
  And then she goes so retracted. Retracted.
• 32:30
  Yeah, yeah. Just kidding, everybody.
• 32:33
  Yeah. We're learning so much about
• 32:35
  what life was like in Icy Joe's time.
• 32:38
  Yeah, they were. They were omnivores.
• 32:39
  At the very least. That must be the pre.
• 32:42
  Radish days. I get the feeling the Fraggles
• 32:45
  are maybe the Fraggles are like scavengers and they just eat
• 32:47
  whatever's there and happens to be a bunch of radishes in in our
• 32:50
  epoch of Fraggle storytelling. But I see Joe, you know, that
• 32:54
  would be a biography I'd read the early days, you know?
• 32:57
  The the whole that statement like it.
• 33:00
  I went into this whole other world of well, are they, are
• 33:04
  they savory? Are they sweet?
• 33:05
  Are they, you know, are they gelatinous, you know,
• 33:09
  throughout? Is it like a like a doughnut or
• 33:11
  what? You know, yeah, just trying to.
• 33:13
  And what did you what solution? What did you come up with, Stan?
• 33:15
  Yeah. What does a Doozer taste?
• 33:16
  Like it depends on the doozer. I I honestly think it depends on
• 33:21
  the Doozer like the the ones that are more sedentary, like
• 33:25
  the ones that that work in, in the village are probably sweeter
• 33:30
  than the ones that are out in, in the, you know, in the
• 33:33
  construction sites. Yeah, more, more sinewy.
• 33:38
  And and all that, but yeah, I don't know.
• 33:41
  Yeah. I mean, look, we know.
• 33:43
  That like there's a hard shell that you have to get through,
• 33:45
  which is their helmets, you know, it's like a nut.
• 33:47
  Yeah. I like the idea that the, the
• 33:51
  madness. I like that you said that I
• 33:53
  could. I could see it being like like
• 33:54
  kind of like a Flon maybe like something really like you just
• 33:58
  take a bite and you go like this one's I just I imagine.
• 34:02
  Marshmallow. Yeah.
• 34:04
  You know, I kind of, I kind of love them.
• 34:06
  I don't want to think of them as sinewy foodstuffs.
• 34:09
  I would think of them as more sweet and yielding like.
• 34:12
  A like a Stay puff marshmallow? Yeah, maybe.
• 34:15
  One of the. Reasons.
• 34:16
  That they started using food materials to build was to be
• 34:21
  like, hey, hey, Fraggles, like, eat these constructions instead
• 34:24
  of us, right? Yeah, yeah, this is the thing.
• 34:27
  This is what you guys do? Yeah, Yeah.
• 34:30
  Oh, yeah. Yeah, it sounds sounds right.
• 34:35
  Welcome ladies, and. Gentlemen to another episode of
• 34:37
  Johannes cooking with Doozers. It's a.
• 34:43
  Cookbook. Oh OK, well, glad we got that
• 34:52
  out of our. System.
• 34:53
  Yeah, that was really. Important.
• 34:54
  This is what this podcast is all this is the main reason we have
• 34:57
  this podcast to ask these these difficult questions.
• 35:00
  So anyway, Cotterpin says that the radishes won't be ready for
• 35:02
  another 40 or 50 helmet months, which is appropriately, you
• 35:07
  know, a fuzzy amount of time so that we you guys could just
• 35:11
  decide whenever you want that to be and like, Yep, that was a
• 35:13
  helmet month. It's done.
• 35:16
  And so everyone's looking to gobo as their leader and so gobo
• 35:22
  to inspire everybody reads his Uncle Traveling Mat postcard.
• 35:26
  And I love that. Like, oh, first he starts to
• 35:29
  talk about how his uncle traveling Mat discovered
• 35:32
  radishes. And apparently it's a speech
• 35:33
  he's given many times because Red is perfectly lip syncing the
• 35:36
  whole thing, which is great, just absolutely great.
• 35:40
  And also the storytellers behind them.
• 35:42
  And she is eating this up. She loves hearing a mad story.
• 35:45
  She loves that guy. The Matt postcard, he's at a
• 35:49
  water park. And again, talking about
• 35:53
  puppetry styles. When he goes down the slide, you
• 35:56
  know, we've got him as the hand puppet.
• 35:58
  We've got it like as where they've armature to puppet and
• 36:00
  we just heated it down the slide.
• 36:03
  We've got a composite image from his perspective where you see
• 36:07
  his feet as they're going down the slide.
• 36:09
  And then we get another one where we see him from the side
• 36:14
  and someone's obviously got their hand in the puppet and,
• 36:16
  and they're puppeteering him as he's he's sliding down and it's
• 36:19
  so effective and like all these different things coming
• 36:21
  together. I love it.
• 36:22
  The magic of editing. Yeah, really.
• 36:26
  Did either of you get to work on any of these location shots for
• 36:29
  travelling mat? No, it was the all.
• 36:32
  All the location stuff with Matt was Kevin Clash and when when
• 36:36
  the except for I shot one on a ski hill, I think with Matt.
• 36:38
  And then when Matt came to the rock, I would do I would do Matt
• 36:42
  and Dave would post everything. Of course he'd post the audio.
• 36:45
  But it's funny because that that same story from this episode
• 36:47
  came up on the weekend at Dragon Con and Kevin was saying how
• 36:51
  he's not really a friend of the water and it was really daunting
• 36:54
  for him to get this puppet on and go down this water slide
• 36:57
  over and over and over. You know, just like 6 year old
• 36:59
  kids are like, come on Kevin, no problem.
• 37:01
  Get down there. Yeah, really.
• 37:03
  But he did a. Great job.
• 37:04
  And and the and post did a great job, as you said, collating
• 37:07
  those, those, all those different styles and it's very
• 37:10
  effective. My favorite is when he comes up
• 37:12
  on the edge pool, he's totally drenched, right.
• 37:14
  And then the next, yeah, they're they're pulling a stuffed,
• 37:17
  soaking wet traveling mat out of the pool.
• 37:19
  I think that's that's a nice bit of editing as well.
• 37:22
  But his face when his mustache, they're all hanging and all
• 37:24
  soaking. Beautiful.
• 37:25
  Did you ask? Did you ask?
• 37:26
  Kevin if he was it a a life vest or a pool floaty that he wore
• 37:33
  down that tube. Did he have like the the
• 37:37
  inflatable? Things on his arms.
• 37:39
  Oh yeah, maybe. Maybe just.
• 37:41
  Yeah, little Elmo. Water wings.
• 37:43
  Yeah, he probably. Had some on them.
• 37:45
  What the heck? Well, that.
• 37:47
  Also reminds me of the story from the original series where
• 37:51
  traveling Matt was on the roller coaster and Dave goals
• 37:54
  apparently hates roller coasters.
• 37:56
  And they had him on that roller coaster and that great shot of
• 38:00
  he's got like Matt sitting next to him.
• 38:03
  Like we see Dave full face Matt sitting next to him in a fake
• 38:07
  arm behind Matt. So it doesn't necessarily look
• 38:09
  like he's puppeteering the the the puppet.
• 38:12
  And just like, you know, it was basically, I think a practical
• 38:15
  joke from Jerry Jewell, who knew this about Dave and was like,
• 38:20
  well, I'm going to make you ride a roller coaster 30 times to get
• 38:24
  these shots. Yeah, Dave.
• 38:26
  Dave tells the story. I hope you don't mind if I hope
• 38:28
  he doesn't mind if I tell it about how every week they'd
• 38:31
  finish a mat segment and Dave would be like, oh, I hated that.
• 38:34
  That's a really awful, you know, it'll never get worse than that.
• 38:37
  And then the next week they'd be in a pigsty with like a, an 1800
• 38:41
  LB sow You have to lie in the mud or whatever, you know,
• 38:45
  whatever the case was, I agree. I think it looks like Jerry was
• 38:49
  just trying to see, well, what else would really bother Dave?
• 38:52
  Let's throw him out of an airplane or whatever it was.
• 38:54
  And Dave would do it because he's a great sport.
• 38:57
  And so the moral of story here. Is if you're performing,
• 38:59
  traveling, Matt, don't admit to the writers what you don't like
• 39:02
  because they will put that into a script.
• 39:04
  They will make you do that thing or admit, really.
• 39:07
  Really comfortable things like oh I hate Hawaii, Hawaii is
• 39:11
  terrible, Oh my God. Lying on pillows.
• 39:13
  Yeah, I hate when there's really good food in front of me and I
• 39:16
  have to eat it until I'm pleasantly full.
• 39:19
  Oh, I don't like. That at all Smart strategy.
• 39:26
  So Matt sends back a towel as his gift to the Fraggles and he
• 39:35
  is he thinks it's a Cape, but he so he has coined the term
• 39:38
  superhero. No one's ever used that word
• 39:40
  before, before Matt. He made that up.
• 39:43
  And in the postcard he says push down feelings, never show
• 39:46
  weakness and fraggle up, which Gobo takes to heart.
• 39:49
  What good advice to push down your feelings, never show
• 39:52
  weakness and fraggle up. That's going to come up a lot in
• 39:56
  this episode. Gobo puts on the Cape like a
• 40:00
  superhero Cape. And Wembley, I like this too.
• 40:03
  Wembley asks if he could be his helper, like the guy who stands
• 40:06
  to the side of the hero within kicking distance and his little
• 40:10
  leg goes up like a side foot. Wembley is good at naming.
• 40:16
  Things like he's great Shirt Yeah, I I got to say.
• 40:21
  Wembley, Wembley has a couple of buttons, a bunch of buttons in
• 40:24
  this episode that are just so perfect.
• 40:26
  That whole side eye thing when he goes to say the same thing as
• 40:30
  the as Gobo and it's always something else.
• 40:31
  And Gobo's like and now it's time to, you know, dig.
• 40:34
  And then Wembley goes dance. It's like, no, I dig.
• 40:36
  Yeah, I'm right with you. And he does, you know, he gets
• 40:38
  his eyes movement. That's just they're beautiful
• 40:40
  little bits of performance. And it's it's.
• 40:43
  Precise. That eye movement is so precise,
• 40:46
  it's spot on focus. It's great and there's a thing
• 40:49
  that he's doing. I can't really explain it and it
• 40:51
  may be just my imagination, but I I think it's just Jordan being
• 40:54
  a great puppets here is like Wembley will do this thing where
• 40:58
  the eyes will turn toward Gobo as he's saying, like dance and
• 41:03
  then dance right? And then it'll go away from Gobo
• 41:05
  to be like, of course, that's we're on the same page, of
• 41:08
  course. And then the eyes will go
• 41:10
  straight ahead and it doesn't look like they're just in the
• 41:12
  resting spot for some reason. To me, it looks like they're,
• 41:15
  they're like, like, like headlights, you know, like going
• 41:20
  straight ahead in an unnatural way where he's just like, Yep,
• 41:24
  the, you know, I, I, I don't know if I can explain that well
• 41:26
  at all, but yeah, yeah, he's just doing a great job with
• 41:31
  that, that iMac. Totally, totally.
• 41:34
  I love it. I love what he's.
• 41:35
  Doing with Wembley in this in this season, it's fun stuff.
• 41:39
  So, so yeah. So Gobo says we're going to
• 41:42
  fraggle up. No more meetings, just action.
• 41:46
  So let's go to the trash heap. And of course, like he should
• 41:49
  know if he's going to the trash heap, that will be another
• 41:52
  meeting. That's that's it is action to
• 41:53
  get there. But like no more meetings.
• 41:55
  Let's go have a meeting. Yeah.
• 41:58
  Good strategy, Real corporate guy.
• 41:59
  Corporate guy? Absolutely.
• 42:01
  This meeting could have been an. E-mail gobo.
• 42:04
  Let's have a meeting about having.
• 42:06
  No more meetings. Right in the Gorg's garden.
• 42:12
  Here's Pon Junior. That's you guys.
• 42:14
  And they're trying to figure out how to save their dying garden.
• 42:17
  Junior suggests that the Fraggles could help.
• 42:20
  And he still has those little clappy hands that Gobo gave him
• 42:23
  earlier in the season. And PA just shuts this whole
• 42:25
  thing down. He says our ancestors would not
• 42:27
  have it. The only clappy hands you need
• 42:29
  are these and puts his hands up for double high 5.
• 42:32
  And Junior is very susceptible. And he goes for the double high
• 42:36
  five. He throws away the clappy hands.
• 42:37
  He's all in with his dad. And it's interesting to see, you
• 42:43
  know, there's, there's this long overarching story throughout the
• 42:48
  season for both Pennsylvania and Junior where Pennsylvania is
• 42:52
  continually doing this toxic masculinity stuff that's really
• 42:56
  coming to a head in this episode.
• 42:57
  But Junior is really taking in so much of this generational
• 43:04
  abuse of, of like that's I've always listened to my, my
• 43:07
  Pennsylvania. So I'm going to listen to my
• 43:08
  Pennsylvania now and without, without questioning whether this
• 43:11
  is healthy or not. So I I imagine that's difficult
• 43:15
  for you guys, especially if you find yourself kind of filming
• 43:17
  out of order a little bit to kind of fit in those character
• 43:21
  beats for this very slow 13 episode arc.
• 43:25
  Is that accurate for you? 2 Yeah.
• 43:28
  As as a. As a, as an actor, my, I have to
• 43:33
  justify why things are happening, not just because it's
• 43:36
  in the script, but because it has to make sense to me.
• 43:39
  And why would and Frank and I had these conversations?
• 43:42
  Why would junior just go with it and discard such a such a thing
• 43:48
  that he's held his his pivot isn't, isn't just, you know,
• 43:54
  laissez faire. It's not just like, OK, whatever
• 43:57
  it it's there's something behind it.
• 43:59
  And the thing behind it is that he's he's been getting pause
• 44:05
  attention out of fear for forever.
• 44:09
  And when Paul makes this change to actually treat Junior as a
• 44:16
  son versus as a servant, Junior is all ears.
• 44:23
  And he he because it's something he's thirsty for.
• 44:25
  It's something that he he wants, he wants to, he wants to be
• 44:28
  accepted by his father. He wants all of these things so
• 44:31
  that the things that he's giving him are the things that that he
• 44:38
  desires. And it's not like some nefarious
• 44:40
  plan on paws end. It's just oh, I'm going to do
• 44:44
  this or whatever. Yeah, I don't know.
• 44:46
  I don't know how you do your your paw there, Frank.
• 44:49
  But but Junior is Oh, thanks. But Junior is more doing it
• 44:55
  because he's being accepted by his dad, not because not not
• 45:00
  because he's alienating Gobo, but because he's he's actually
• 45:04
  making physical contact with his father.
• 45:07
  Like hit the support of these are the only need the hands you
• 45:09
  need or whatever it is. And and then the, you know, the
• 45:12
  nose bump thing, which we decided.
• 45:15
  Oh yeah, Junior's aim is completely off because it's
• 45:18
  still the innocence of his enthusiasm.
• 45:21
  I think that's that's where it lies for me.
• 45:24
  Frank, what about you? Where where do you stand on
• 45:26
  this? I think you're.
• 45:27
  Right about Junior Dan for for pause, pause, pause.
• 45:32
  The classic bullying and as long as he's got someone to bully,
• 45:35
  that's his track. And we find out later in later
• 45:38
  episodes that he will keep that up until there is literally he's
• 45:42
  ruined it all. He's destroyed it and only then
• 45:45
  it's like, you know, when somebody's well, I'm thinking of
• 45:48
  a bad example, so I won't go into that.
• 45:50
  But you kind of got to hit bottom before you can get your
• 45:53
  traction and and crawl back out. So pause motivation to me seemed
• 45:57
  pretty consistent. Whatever ideas in his head,
• 46:00
  that's what we're doing some, you know, and right away.
• 46:02
  And he counts on Junior to be there with him because he has
• 46:05
  been all the time. Even when Ma says, I don't know,
• 46:08
  you know, Junior, you might want to think about that.
• 46:10
  He looks around and goes, you know, I'll go with Paul for now,
• 46:14
  for now. So Paul's pretty steady in his
• 46:18
  in his almost abusive relationship with his wife and
• 46:23
  his son. And as long as Junior goes along
• 46:26
  with it, there's no reason for paw to stop.
• 46:28
  Right, because 2 is more than one.
• 46:30
  Yeah, I agree. So it's pretty it's pretty cool.
• 46:31
  Later when he when he does do a gear change, it was, you know,
• 46:34
  especially right. You're the end of the series of
• 46:36
  season 2, not in the series end of season 2.
• 46:39
  It's it's it's really intriguing to me to see where they'll take
• 46:43
  Paw and Junior and Ma because something big happens as you
• 46:46
  know, it's that's going to rock their world and paws already on
• 46:50
  his butt because he's he lost it all.
• 46:53
  He ruined the garden. He jeopardized his his marriage.
• 46:57
  His relationship with junior has changed and he realizes that
• 47:00
  it's because of him that this has all happened.
• 47:04
  So where's his redemption? Let's find out.
• 47:07
  Season 3. You, you.
• 47:10
  Maybe think of something else too while you while you were
• 47:12
  explaining junior and Pa's relationship.
• 47:15
  Is that Pennsylvania, excuse me, a junior has this need for
• 47:20
  approval from his father, which I think a lot of us, especially,
• 47:24
  you know, especially men, young men feel is this weird.
• 47:30
  We need approvals from our from our dads.
• 47:32
  But he doesn't have that kind of relationship with Ma Gorg.
• 47:35
  And we actually don't see in in back to the rock, at least we
• 47:38
  don't see a lot of junior and Ma together.
• 47:40
  So I'm curious how that's going to change if we go to season 3.
• 47:45
  Is Ma continues to take a larger role within the family and, and
• 47:48
  within, you know, the Kingdom of the universe and to see if
• 47:53
  Junior and Ma can really share some of this and, and to see
• 47:56
  what their relationship is like when Pa's not around.
• 47:59
  I, I kind of, I kind of beg. To differ a little just because,
• 48:03
  you know, Ma's the one especially, you know, when when
• 48:07
  we get to the to to episodes a little farther into the, to the
• 48:10
  series, you know, Junior's birthday and all of that.
• 48:14
  Or, and where am I in the timeline here?
• 48:16
  I don't remember, but yeah, the Junior's birthday happened.
• 48:18
  Before this episode, yes, before this episode.
• 48:21
  So like like. Her acceptance of of junior and
• 48:24
  who he is and what he does. She just she, she loves her
• 48:27
  little man. She loves her her little boy and
• 48:31
  and she she encourages and she recognizes all of these things.
• 48:36
  The fact that they don't have a lot of like me time so much yet
• 48:42
  I think is is a great set up for season 3.
• 48:46
  But but she she supports him, she loves him and so he he
• 48:51
  doesn't have any of that where there's not a huge need for
• 48:57
  mommy because anytime something goes wrong, he's like mommy or,
• 49:01
  you know, it's time for your, you know, whatever gazpago.
• 49:04
  I love Gazpaggio and, and it it's, you know, she's always
• 49:08
  taking care of him. You know, the garlic pop, the
• 49:10
  the she's, she's always doing her thing.
• 49:13
  But he's never gotten that acceptance from Pennsylvania.
• 49:16
  True. But I think to your point,
• 49:19
  there's so much more to dig into what that relationship means
• 49:23
  that I, I mean, of course, like I'm so grateful that he doesn't
• 49:25
  have the same relationship to MA as he does to PA.
• 49:27
  He shouldn't, but to find out what that means to him, that
• 49:32
  he's always being babied or that he can always turn to his mom
• 49:35
  and what happens if he can't or what does she get out of the
• 49:40
  relationship? That's, you know, maybe as
• 49:42
  especially we're seeing a lot of in this episode and and through
• 49:44
  the next few that Ma wants more and she's going to stand up for
• 49:49
  what she wants. So I don't know.
• 49:50
  I mean, this is these are all season 3 questions.
• 49:52
  But like, I would very much like to see where the show could take
• 49:55
  that. Yeah.
• 49:56
  I think there's a lot of possibilities there.
• 49:59
  But in any case, Junior throws away those clappy hands, and of
• 50:02
  course, they land right in front of Gobo, who's passing through
• 50:04
  the cork's garden, which is so awkward it's like, like you
• 50:08
  overheard a conversation you really weren't supposed to hear.
• 50:11
  But Gobo swallows his feelings. He says he's fine.
• 50:15
  Wraggle up. We're going to keep moving.
• 50:17
  That seems healthy. They, they go to the trash heap
• 50:23
  and we get this cute scene with Philo and Gunge where they're
• 50:26
  they're sharing their feelings with this, this talking stick.
• 50:29
  And Philo is talking about how he was scared the time he got
• 50:32
  his head stuck in his shoe. And Gunge is saying that he was
• 50:35
  scared that time that Philo's head was stuck in his shoe.
• 50:38
  It's very cute. And they hug and all that.
• 50:40
  And so remind me, Dan, are you Philo or Gunge?
• 50:43
  I can never remember which one's which.
• 50:44
  I'm I'm Philo. And on that day, on that day,
• 50:49
  for some reason, I don't remember what it was, but Jordan
• 50:54
  jumped in to play Gunch. And so the passing of the, of
• 50:59
  the talking stick and all of that.
• 51:01
  I again, you know, we, I, I don't, I keep thinking, oh, why
• 51:06
  didn't they choose the, the scene where I'm actually looking
• 51:09
  at the stick and handing it over to him because it from, from my
• 51:13
  puppetry, the technique perspective, you know that
• 51:17
  that's and they got the one shot where he's not, he's looking
• 51:21
  away and he's handing it off because we were doing that live.
• 51:26
  Sure. And.
• 51:27
  So yeah. Every time I see it I'm like God
• 51:30
  Bless America, why? Why am I not frank and
• 51:35
  puppeteering better but and if it's.
• 51:38
  If it's any consolation, I was telling Joe last time we were
• 51:41
  doing this podcast that this show on to me.
• 51:44
  I've done a ton of stuff in 40 years.
• 51:47
  Every day, every day since we wrapped, I think about the show
• 51:50
  at least once, if not ten times. And most often it's that moment
• 51:53
  where I was like, pause, eyes should.
• 51:55
  Have been closed. There and I had a wide open what
• 51:56
  was I thinking you know imagining you know, like dear
• 52:00
  Fraggle producers in episode 2 O 7 I happen to know there pause
• 52:04
  eyes were wide open. I was so distraught I had to
• 52:08
  pause and watch it over and over.
• 52:09
  You know nobody does that except you and me, Dan, by the way, so
• 52:13
  I refuse to. Watch the show moving forward
• 52:15
  with this style of puppetry. Yeah, exactly.
• 52:20
  Well, also don't forget we don't know the things that are cut,
• 52:24
  you know, like like when you're like, oh, that was a better
• 52:26
  take. Well, I didn't know that.
• 52:28
  If I had known that, I mean, I would be, I'd be complaining
• 52:30
  with you Felt like it looked fine to me.
• 52:32
  I didn't, I I was busy. I also, I was busy looking at
• 52:35
  like the funny little dolls that were wiggling, you know, like I
• 52:37
  was looking at the you. Know position where the eyes
• 52:39
  that her hands are in. When they released.
• 52:42
  The Criterion Edition with the behind the scenes director's cut
• 52:45
  right. The 750 minute episodes of
• 52:48
  Fraggle Rock. Back to the Rock.
• 52:51
  And then you get. Here's the take.
• 52:52
  Where Dan's eye focus was 1° off.
• 52:55
  Let's all pause there. No, Dan, I don't think, I don't
• 52:57
  think anyone noticed but you, friend.
• 52:59
  Honestly, Yeah. We should hire Peter Mcdanovich
• 53:01
  to to. To do all of.
• 53:03
  This. Yeah, the.
• 53:05
  Zack Snyder cut. Yeah, that's right.
• 53:08
  So, well, here's a question. There's probably no answer to
• 53:13
  this. Is there a difference in in
• 53:15
  performance or or or back story between Philo and Gunge or is it
• 53:20
  just they're both two yes brains, one straw?
• 53:23
  No, no, no there. There is, there is a difference
• 53:27
  and I found this out while I was researching.
• 53:30
  I, I contacted Dave Golds and and he said, he said, well,
• 53:36
  First off, you're doing, you're doing a great job.
• 53:38
  Secondly, you're, you're, you're studying me, but you should be
• 53:42
  studying a gunge because as, as, as Philo, I was copying Richard
• 53:49
  Hunt. And so I started looking at, at
• 53:54
  it from that perspective. OK, I need to make a, a copy of
• 53:57
  a copy of his copy of the copy. And, and, and so it, it
• 54:02
  influenced me a little. But once you're and, and you
• 54:06
  internalize all of these things, but once you're standing next to
• 54:09
  next to Johnny or whoever else is, is puppeteering at that
• 54:13
  point that all kind of just becomes from, from a, from a
• 54:19
  performance perspective. I honestly believe that that
• 54:24
  Philo is, is more enamored with Marjorie than than Gunges.
• 54:30
  And he's willing to do more to, to, to satisfy that, that, that
• 54:35
  codependent love that he has for her.
• 54:39
  But yeah, I, but we, we bounce stuff off of each other.
• 54:43
  I have to always bring a thesaurus to set in the back of
• 54:47
  my head because whenever we start improvising, we'll say the
• 54:51
  same thing, but we'll just we'll go find synonyms for for each,
• 54:56
  each one of the exploratory, the things that we we go through and
• 55:01
  well, that's fun at the end. Of the day.
• 55:02
  We're just looking to make each other laugh, you know?
• 55:04
  It's what we're trying to do that comes.
• 55:05
  Across so well too is and I I said this on this podcast many
• 55:08
  times before but like when you guys are having fun we can see
• 55:11
  that on the screen and so as long as you're entertaining
• 55:13
  yourselves then like you're doing a great job.
• 55:15
  Don't worry about us. We'll, we'll catch up.
• 55:18
  Yeah. You, you should.
• 55:18
  Hear all the stuff that never makes it to to air.
• 55:21
  It's pretty fun again. For the Criterion Collection,
• 55:24
  let's let's get that stuff. Let's release that.
• 55:27
  Yeah, the the R rated version of Fraggle Rock.
• 55:31
  So Marjorie invites the Fraggles to join in on their feeling
• 55:35
  circle. But go was like, hey, no time
• 55:37
  for feelings. And like, she is taken aback by
• 55:39
  this. No time for feelings.
• 55:40
  It's always time for feelings. But here's here's my complaint
• 55:43
  that I will say once and then I'm going to, I'll leave it
• 55:45
  alone for the rest of the episode.
• 55:47
  Gobo's not exactly wrong. Like they're actually in crisis
• 55:50
  mode. And sometimes it is like when we
• 55:53
  kind of need to act, you know, Now, of course, it isn't like
• 55:58
  we, we've got a ticking clock. It's not like the bombs about to
• 56:00
  go off in 10 seconds, but but it does feel like that to them.
• 56:04
  And so at least I, I appreciate where Gobo's coming from, but of
• 56:08
  course he's also wrong. And I, I recognize that as well.
• 56:12
  Well, you'll. Also see there is kind of a a
• 56:14
  little ticking time bomb. The actions of the Gorgs moving
• 56:18
  forward in this episode are are it's going to affect the
• 56:21
  Fraggles once they, you know, dig down.
• 56:24
  That's true. Yeah, there is, yeah.
• 56:26
  A little a little bit of something there.
• 56:28
  Yeah. So yeah.
• 56:29
  He's right. Fraggle up, you're right too.
• 56:33
  Joe Marjorie's advice to him? Which is appropriately cryptic
• 56:38
  for the trash heap is go back to where it all began.
• 56:42
  Look beneath the surface. Bring down what's there into the
• 56:45
  light. Which, like Marjorie, what do
• 56:47
  you. You're not helping.
• 56:48
  You're just saying words. OK.
• 56:50
  She she goes down on the soil. She's gone.
• 56:53
  Yeah, she. She.
• 56:55
  Received a package of fortune cookies a long time ago and it's
• 56:59
  slowly digesting them. Yeah, that's true.
• 57:02
  Yeah. Or more like a magnet, poetry.
• 57:05
  It's just word word jumble, right?
• 57:11
  So Gobo translates this in his Fraggle brain as we have to go
• 57:16
  back to where it began, which is the Fraggle horn, because that's
• 57:19
  where travelling mat announced his radish discovery and look
• 57:23
  beneath the surface, bring down what's in light is that they
• 57:25
  should start digging. So he convinces everyone to to
• 57:31
  get little shovels and little helmets.
• 57:33
  And I love Wembley's got like a little headlight lamp on his and
• 57:40
  oh, and and Cotter pin also has this amazing like drill vehicle,
• 57:45
  two big drills on either side. Like they're they're prepared.
• 57:48
  They came prepared to really just mess up their whole Great
• 57:51
  Hall here with a giant pit. Yeah, that's a that's a real
• 57:55
  sci-fi Doozer dozer there. I love that all those toys.
• 57:59
  I mean, I just wanted to let when we're done, can I just play
• 58:01
  with those for a minute? Doozer Tonka toys, I think that
• 58:05
  they're so beautifully designed and, and and built and, and then
• 58:09
  they start moving and you're like, and then you have the
• 58:12
  lights on. Yeah.
• 58:14
  Well, and for that one. Specifically, I have to assume,
• 58:17
  and I'm saying this with having done no research on this, is
• 58:19
  that usually when we see like a Doozer vehicle or or tool that
• 58:24
  we've seen that we're only going to see once, that maybe it's
• 58:28
  modified from something else. But I don't know if we've ever
• 58:30
  seen a Doozer vehicle of this size.
• 58:33
  So obviously it was built for this episode and it's just
• 58:37
  really impressive and it's big enough.
• 58:39
  To hide Johnny puppeteering Gobo on top of it.
• 58:43
  So in the song, yeah. Yeah, that happens.
• 58:46
  In, in the song and, and him contorting his body in order to
• 58:51
  hide himself. You know, the, the, the machine
• 58:54
  is a little closer to camera. There's, there's a little bit
• 58:57
  of, of fudging that happens there.
• 59:00
  But what you see on the screen is what we saw in our monitors
• 59:03
  of Johnny hiding himself extremely well behind behind
• 59:09
  that that machine. The other thing is Johnny's body
• 59:14
  role in this as he's dancing, Gobo's body role that he does is
• 59:20
  exceptional. The you mean the spin?
• 59:22
  No. No, no, he does.
• 59:24
  A body role where his where he's like, first he starts with his
• 59:27
  head and then he goes with his chest and then Oh yes, yes, all
• 59:29
  this. Kind of an.
• 59:30
  Undulation. Yeah, that undulation like.
• 59:32
  He's doing the worm, but standing.
• 59:35
  Yeah, it's absolutely beautiful. His.
• 59:38
  His. His weight is still there.
• 59:40
  His center of gravity is still there.
• 59:42
  Yeah. It's just beautifully thought
• 59:45
  out, rehearsed and. And performed by by Johnny.
• 59:48
  I, I can't. Yeah, I can't say enough about
• 59:51
  that. Yeah.
• 59:53
  I. Mean it's no wonder that Johnny
• 59:54
  does most of the choreography in in the series because he is such
• 1:00:00
  a an amazing puppet dancer. I don't, I don't know how else
• 1:00:04
  to like as a performer, a puppeteer.
• 1:00:08
  Specifically for dancing. I don't know.
• 1:00:09
  I don't know what else to say that, but yeah, he's great.
• 1:00:12
  Yeah, he's got Limba joints. Limba Joints.
• 1:00:15
  I think. I think.
• 1:00:17
  He has dance training. Oh, sorry, Dan, I cut you off
• 1:00:19
  there. Oh yeah, No, go ahead.
• 1:00:20
  There was. There was, actually.
• 1:00:22
  Early days of Back to the Rock. It was a big choreography scene.
• 1:00:26
  I was in Buber and Johnny did this spin with Gobo in place and
• 1:00:30
  I was like, oh, that looked really cool.
• 1:00:31
  I'm going to do that. I didn't do that.
• 1:00:35
  I did. Something that looked like a
• 1:00:37
  stir stick wanking around in a glass.
• 1:00:39
  I would puppet was all over the place.
• 1:00:41
  And actually I stopped and I went, how the heck did he do
• 1:00:43
  that? I think I'm I'm all right as a
• 1:00:45
  puppeteer. I should I should be able to do
• 1:00:47
  No, I could not do that. How he made his arm rotate on
• 1:00:51
  the exact same axis as his spine while he did a spin on one foot.
• 1:00:55
  I just I had to let it go. It broke my heart.
• 1:00:57
  I couldn't keep up Johnny's. He's the Fang.
• 1:01:01
  It's almost like. He's been on Broadway or
• 1:01:03
  something, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:01:07
  One, one thing that I I have to talk about is the proper art of
• 1:01:14
  tucking in your clothes because they have a sidetrack here.
• 1:01:19
  Dan Fashion notes from Dan we dealt.
• 1:01:22
  With tons and tons of rubber dirt in this, in this scene and
• 1:01:29
  there, yeah, there is there are some effects, there's some
• 1:01:31
  effect dirt that that happens, but there's a lot of real dirt
• 1:01:35
  that's happening there and it's flying up and it's landing
• 1:01:39
  inside of my shirt and going down my pants and getting stuck
• 1:01:45
  all, all inside you and it's horrible.
• 1:01:48
  I, I think that's how, that's how rubber pearls are made over
• 1:01:53
  time with, with maker and all of that.
• 1:01:56
  You, you, we would, we would go get off set and we're shaking
• 1:02:00
  The same thing with, in with Glitterini.
• 1:02:03
  We were finding this stuff 4 weeks afterwards in my shoes, in
• 1:02:09
  my, how it got in my backpack, I have no idea.
• 1:02:13
  It wasn't even close to set. It was just rubber dirt
• 1:02:17
  everywhere. I think I put that.
• 1:02:19
  In your backpack, did you? Thank you, Frank.
• 1:02:21
  Appreciate it. I know you know.
• 1:02:23
  It's a souvenir. Something.
• 1:02:24
  Something to take home from set. Another thing.
• 1:02:26
  Dan took from set. The list grows, as does your
• 1:02:32
  prison sentence. Dad, actually.
• 1:02:37
  Talking, talking. About that dirt, I'm I'm a very
• 1:02:40
  technical puppeteer. I love when you give me a prop,
• 1:02:42
  give me a shovel, give me a stick or a cane or something.
• 1:02:44
  And it's like, oh, what can I do with this?
• 1:02:46
  I love doing that shoveling. But as Dan said, there was a
• 1:02:49
  group of fine folks in front of us just under camera, and we
• 1:02:53
  coordinated the shoveling to the beat of the song.
• 1:02:55
  And as the shovels raised, they would have small boxes and
• 1:02:59
  buckets of these, these rubber, black rubber pearls that they
• 1:03:03
  would whip into the air. So it looked like each shovel
• 1:03:05
  was throwing the appropriate quantity of stuff over their
• 1:03:08
  shoulders. And yeah, it it went everywhere.
• 1:03:10
  And there was chafing. Yeah, yes, yeah.
• 1:03:14
  If you're. Not chafing?
• 1:03:15
  Then you're not doing puppetry right.
• 1:03:17
  That's you're not trying hard what they say.
• 1:03:19
  Exactly. That's right.
• 1:03:19
  That's the. T-shirt.
• 1:03:23
  So there's also a scene in here I wanted to point out where
• 1:03:26
  Moki's feeling really overwhelmed and GO shuts her
• 1:03:28
  down pretty quickly because there's no time for feelings.
• 1:03:30
  As we've established and Red says, feelings are what Fraggles
• 1:03:34
  do best. That's what the F is for.
• 1:03:36
  Without them, we're just raggles.
• 1:03:38
  And it never occurred to me that Fraggle is an acronym.
• 1:03:44
  So what do we think the other letters stand for?
• 1:03:47
  What? What's what's the R?
• 1:03:49
  In in Fraggles stand for radish, radish, radish, yes, so we.
• 1:03:54
  Got feelings? Radishes.
• 1:03:55
  Yeah, A. Accolades.
• 1:04:00
  Yep, accolades. There's so many things.
• 1:04:02
  Is that a huge that's that's too?
• 1:04:03
  It's too big. Maybe it's too big a a word for
• 1:04:05
  the frags. No, we're going with it.
• 1:04:06
  Because this is we're making this up anyway, so who cares?
• 1:04:09
  How about the first G? Or or the double G do.
• 1:04:12
  We want to do Are there twins on Fraggle Rock?
• 1:04:17
  Good gatherings, good gatherings.
• 1:04:21
  Absolutely. How about the L?
• 1:04:23
  Well, the L, I'll do this one, the LS from Lanford because Moki
• 1:04:26
  made-up the acronym since she loves Lanford.
• 1:04:30
  And the the the E, what's the E stand for?
• 1:04:33
  He is. He is, maybe.
• 1:04:34
  Enjoy. Yeah, enjoy it.
• 1:04:36
  Enjoy those Fraggles, everybody. We did it.
• 1:04:38
  That's what Fraggles stands for. Now we know.
• 1:04:41
  Now we know. Put that on a T-shirt.
• 1:04:45
  So, so as we said, this is where we get our first song of the
• 1:04:48
  episode. The song is called Push it Down,
• 1:04:50
  Fraggle up. It's a fun song.
• 1:04:51
  I like this. It's it's, it's got a good beat.
• 1:04:53
  I found myself swaying and and bopping, bopping along to the
• 1:04:56
  whole thing. And there's a great moment in
• 1:05:00
  here that for me, the first time I saw it was Jaw on the floor,
• 1:05:04
  which is when we hit the bridge and everyone freezes in time.
• 1:05:10
  And Gobo steps into the spotlight and has this moment
• 1:05:14
  where he's wondering out loud if he shouldn't be ignoring his his
• 1:05:18
  emotions. And while he's singing, 4 ink
• 1:05:22
  spots come in and they all start to harmonize with him, which is
• 1:05:25
  beautiful and very ink spotty. And then he goes, Nah.
• 1:05:27
  Then he jumps back into the song and time starts up again.
• 1:05:31
  That's just wonderful. Visually and musically and
• 1:05:35
  thematically, everything about it is great.
• 1:05:37
  I love it. Yeah.
• 1:05:39
  It's a nice piece of theatre. It feels like it feels like a
• 1:05:41
  scene from a Broadway show. I just I thought too that that
• 1:05:44
  tone change, that gear change was was really well done.
• 1:05:47
  I beautifully. Dan, do you think that's.
• 1:05:49
  All that's largely John. John did the majority of our
• 1:05:52
  choreography, but I don't do. That I believe so.
• 1:05:54
  Don't recall if there were other but.
• 1:05:56
  There was someone else involved. Well, I'm I'm sure it.
• 1:05:58
  Came up in discussions, you know, wouldn't it be cool if
• 1:06:01
  blah, blah, blah. And, you know, everyone's like,
• 1:06:03
  Oh, yeah, I don't, I don't know exactly where it came from.
• 1:06:05
  But you know, if you, if you talk to Johnny, I'm sure he'd
• 1:06:08
  say most of what we do is, is collective.
• 1:06:11
  You know, it's part of a big, big bowl of of salad, a big bowl
• 1:06:16
  of brains. A bowl of brains Frank's got a
• 1:06:19
  thing for. Brains.
• 1:06:22
  I mean, we should probably. Give some props to John
• 1:06:25
  Rosenbaum who directed this episode because because the the
• 1:06:28
  whole spotlight thing seems like a directorial.
• 1:06:31
  John, John Rosenbaum, I actually made I, I did a, a, a dooser in,
• 1:06:37
  in Rosenbaum's voice at one point.
• 1:06:39
  I don't remember which one it was.
• 1:06:41
  I went over to him and I said, Hey, can you, can you say this
• 1:06:43
  line for me real quick? And he said it.
• 1:06:45
  And then I went back and I'm like John Rosenbaum.
• 1:06:49
  So he's in there somewhere. I don't, I don't know, John
• 1:06:51
  Rosenbaum. Is that what he he sounds like
• 1:06:52
  Ralph the dog. It sounds like he.
• 1:06:54
  Sounds like if Seth Rogen and Ralph the dog had a kid that's
• 1:06:59
  sort of and. And they were in Michigan for
• 1:07:02
  most of their lives. Great.
• 1:07:04
  Yeah. That's pretty.
• 1:07:05
  Specific, we thought. About this a lot, Dan.
• 1:07:07
  Oh yeah, no, I. I I it's my craft, man.
• 1:07:10
  It's my craft. What part of Michigan?
• 1:07:13
  No, we don't. Need to.
• 1:07:13
  We don't need to get on that the inside.
• 1:07:15
  The inside of. Michigan.
• 1:07:16
  Got it. Not hovering above.
• 1:07:18
  That's a totally different accent.
• 1:07:19
  Yeah, yeah, One thing about. Pausing a a a character or
• 1:07:23
  stopping a character is a lot of times I'll hold my breath for as
• 1:07:29
  long as I can because even even breathing affects your.
• 1:07:35
  And so you'll see a. Little bit of sympathetic
• 1:07:38
  movement in the tail or things like that because it's it's an
• 1:07:41
  extension of of the characters. But yeah, I try to, I try to if
• 1:07:45
  I can't lean on something, then it's it's holding my breath for
• 1:07:49
  as long as I can until we go back into into motion because it
• 1:07:53
  it happens a few times. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:07:55
  I mean, that's one of those. I don't know if you call it a
• 1:07:59
  pet peeve, but like one of those things where as Speaking of
• 1:08:01
  someone who watches too many movies and TV shows, you know,
• 1:08:05
  when there's something like someone's supposed to be frozen
• 1:08:07
  or someone's supposed to be like a like a character is dead.
• 1:08:10
  And like I can see the actor breathing.
• 1:08:13
  I watched the movie The other day where someone was supposed
• 1:08:15
  to be dead and they moved the body, but his eyes were open and
• 1:08:17
  so his eyes were like focusing on things like unintentionally.
• 1:08:21
  It's just like, I mean, I get it.
• 1:08:23
  He's it's a real person. You weren't going to use a
• 1:08:24
  corpse, but like I see it, it takes me out of it.
• 1:08:28
  Another strike. Against 8K, you know, just
• 1:08:30
  saying yeah, right. We we see too much.
• 1:08:33
  That's right. Fraggle Rock.
• 1:08:34
  Back to the Rocks should be released the way that that Jim
• 1:08:38
  Henson intended. Betamax on Betamax or streaming
• 1:08:42
  on or streaming like, like aired on like 1980s HBO that you're
• 1:08:46
  kind of like pirating from your neighbor.
• 1:08:51
  Yeah. Like we we want bad quality, we
• 1:08:53
  want static, we want bad tracking and just move the
• 1:08:56
  breathing moving forward. You know, I got to I got to be
• 1:09:01
  that that Fraggle that that turns the thing in the next
• 1:09:04
  episode, the little cyclorama or whatever the hell that is.
• 1:09:08
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think it should be released
• 1:09:10
  like that. We should re release it in just
• 1:09:12
  static images and voice over. Oh yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:16
  Do like, yeah, photos, Ligetae, Yeah, see that?
• 1:09:21
  Yeah, yes, exactly like when you change the theme.
• 1:09:23
  Change the theme song Fraggles. Meet the Fraggles.
• 1:09:28
  Stone slabs and. Those.
• 1:09:32
  Were the answers that that Icy Joe ate were the those old Stone
• 1:09:37
  Age Doozer? Yeah, Stone Age, everybody.
• 1:09:40
  'S chomping on a doozer. Yeah, but don't you have?
• 1:09:44
  A Doozer. I'm going to break the.
• 1:09:46
  Feed for for the next episode that you're going to talk about,
• 1:09:50
  bring up the fact that my arm got ripped off of my body while
• 1:09:55
  we're while we're doing the the little film strip thing.
• 1:09:58
  My goodness, just throw it out there.
• 1:09:59
  Yeah, yeah, I will. Whoever, whoever's going to be
• 1:10:01
  on there, I'm. I got no spoilers, but yeah, my
• 1:10:04
  arm got ripped out of my socket and that was that was a lot of
• 1:10:08
  fun. OK, think you're.
• 1:10:09
  Going back rather well. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:10:12
  Something to look forward to next.
• 1:10:13
  Week, everybody. One's slightly longer than the
• 1:10:20
  other. So back at the Gorg's garden,
• 1:10:22
  Pennsylvania says, oh, let's rake the soil.
• 1:10:25
  And Ma immediately was like, no, no, no, that's a terrible idea.
• 1:10:27
  You're going to make things 10 times worse.
• 1:10:30
  And this is, I feel like, such a turning point for Ma as a
• 1:10:33
  character. We've seen her kind of getting
• 1:10:36
  smarter throughout the season. Like we're building.
• 1:10:40
  We're definitely building up to a big change for her.
• 1:10:42
  But this is the point in which not only is she saying, hang on,
• 1:10:44
  I'm the smart one in the family, but she's the responsible one in
• 1:10:48
  the family. She says to Pennsylvania, don't
• 1:10:51
  do it. And he says, oh, we won't listen
• 1:10:54
  to you, which is such a Dick thing to say.
• 1:10:58
  Yeah. What a deliberate pause.
• 1:11:00
  Come on, Pennsylvania. Yeah, I think that episode.
• 1:11:04
  Just features Pennsylvania at his very worst, yeah.
• 1:11:08
  Yeah, well, because there are times where he's I would argue
• 1:11:11
  that he is a worse person, but because he's directing his worst
• 1:11:17
  attributes toward his only family, I feel like that makes
• 1:11:21
  him. This is absolutely, 100% the
• 1:11:22
  worst that Pennsylvania is. Like, we've we know that he
• 1:11:25
  doesn't like the Fraggles. He's going to be a jerk to them.
• 1:11:27
  But like, to your wife, come on to your only child.
• 1:11:31
  Come on. Yeah.
• 1:11:34
  I think there was there was some contention on set as to whether
• 1:11:37
  or not that line should should stick because it is it's it's
• 1:11:41
  pretty much a slap, right. And I I I can't recall another
• 1:11:45
  episode where he was that mean to Ma.
• 1:11:48
  Yeah. But but obviously and and I.
• 1:11:50
  Guess, I guess I'm sorry, just to finish that, I think it
• 1:11:53
  needed to be that for her to finally dig in and say, you know
• 1:11:56
  what, yes, that's exactly. What I was going to say, she
• 1:12:00
  needed that catalyst, that. Catalyst.
• 1:12:05
  That last straw on the camel's back that was going to say, you
• 1:12:08
  know what, going for a walk. And interesting, though, that
• 1:12:13
  he's like, what's a walk even? Like he's never walked before.
• 1:12:17
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah, well, there it is too.
• 1:12:19
  I mean, nor been in the kitchen. Yeah, that's true.
• 1:12:22
  The notion that trash heap is literally around the back of
• 1:12:25
  their of their castle and nobody's really gone there.
• 1:12:28
  You get the feeling they just throw all their stuff out the
• 1:12:30
  window. Cuz in the next scene, Ma meets
• 1:12:33
  Marjorie and he wouldn't have had that, that compulsion or
• 1:12:36
  that motivation if Paul hadn't been that mean to her.
• 1:12:39
  So I think, I think in, in hindsight, I look at it now and
• 1:12:41
  I go, no, that's, that's an appropriate amount of cruelty on
• 1:12:44
  Paul's part to motivate something to happen.
• 1:12:47
  That has never happened in the history of the Gorks, right?
• 1:12:50
  How upset. Is she that she would go to A to
• 1:12:53
  where they throw their trash? Like she could go anywhere but
• 1:12:57
  she ends up like, you know, she's literally in the dumps.
• 1:13:01
  Her heart is literally. In the dumps.
• 1:13:04
  Yeah. Wow.
• 1:13:06
  I mean, we could talk about that too, because it, it's such an, a
• 1:13:09
  fascinating moment when mom meets Marjorie.
• 1:13:13
  And like I, I remember seeing this for the first time and it
• 1:13:18
  felt like such a whoa moment. And then I had to stop and go.
• 1:13:21
  Have they met before? Like, how have we gone through
• 1:13:24
  five seasons of the original show and now over a season and a
• 1:13:27
  half of of Back to the Rock and they've never interacted before?
• 1:13:31
  And I mean, it's a long time coming.
• 1:13:35
  Obviously. Amy Garcia performs both of both
• 1:13:37
  of the voices, Right? Right.
• 1:13:39
  Yeah, Amy does. Both and it's Angie and and Kira
• 1:13:42
  Hall. Kira Hall.
• 1:13:44
  Right. So yeah, Ingrid.
• 1:13:45
  Hansen also is is performing is a performer of both and going
• 1:13:50
  back to the beginning of this episode when Moki and Cotterpin
• 1:13:53
  have their like, like, hey, girlfriend moment and it's like,
• 1:13:56
  oh, right, like they should know each other.
• 1:13:58
  Like, we're doing that again over here.
• 1:14:01
  And on top of that, this idea of Ma, who probably feels really
• 1:14:04
  lonely when she's sharing this castle with these two idiots and
• 1:14:08
  no one else and finding solace and friendship with another
• 1:14:14
  woman, You know, women helping women, which is important.
• 1:14:18
  And you know, someone who can kind of match her intellectually
• 1:14:23
  at this point. And it's like, it's not someone
• 1:14:26
  that she needs to like, talk down to because they don't quite
• 1:14:28
  understand why you shouldn't rake the Gorgomax soil.
• 1:14:32
  You know what I mean? She's literally.
• 1:14:35
  Talking down to the trash heap though, Like OK, physically.
• 1:14:38
  Down. Physically down, yes.
• 1:14:41
  But interestingly. Mom, Mom is at the, the, the
• 1:14:44
  peak of her despair because everything is falling apart and
• 1:14:46
  she can't, she can't stay around the front of the castle where
• 1:14:49
  she's been for however many 100 years because her husband is
• 1:14:52
  just too belligerent and mean. And Marjorie says something to
• 1:14:56
  the effect of a queen always recognizes another queen.
• 1:15:00
  And it's Ma's build up moment, right?
• 1:15:02
  Because obviously Marjorie is full of confidence.
• 1:15:04
  You know, despite her being kind of a static character made out
• 1:15:07
  of garbage, she's supremely present and confident and, and,
• 1:15:13
  and compassionate and everything you want in a, in a friend.
• 1:15:17
  And there she is, you know, reaching to Ma, saying you and I
• 1:15:20
  are the same. I I think it's, it's a, it's a
• 1:15:22
  great, it's a great hinge for Ma to begin her turn to whatever it
• 1:15:27
  is she's going to become in future seasons.
• 1:15:30
  Yeah. Absolutely agree.
• 1:15:32
  And then bouncing off of what you said a second ago, Dan,
• 1:15:35
  about her talking, literally talking down to Marjorie.
• 1:15:38
  Another thing I didn't think about is the size difference.
• 1:15:41
  Like of course there's a size difference, but like she looks
• 1:15:44
  so the, the Marjorie looks so tiny compared to Ma and like of
• 1:15:48
  course she does because we always see Marjorie with the
• 1:15:51
  Fraggles and of course the fraggles.
• 1:15:53
  The puppet size of the Fraggle does not equal the puppet size
• 1:15:55
  of the of the Gorgs. We've got to fake it a little
• 1:15:58
  bit, but that's a little jarring to be honest.
• 1:16:01
  Like again, more of a more of a trash.
• 1:16:03
  Hump. Yeah, if you want.
• 1:16:05
  Yeah, right. Trash Mound.
• 1:16:07
  A trash mound. A trash.
• 1:16:08
  Mound. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:11
  But it makes sense, right? Because the, yeah, the Fraggles
• 1:16:13
  are small, they're trashy, is large compared to the Fraggles,
• 1:16:16
  and the Gorges of course, are huge compared to the Fraggles.
• 1:16:19
  So I'm I'm sure someone sat down with a compass and a ruler and
• 1:16:21
  went, OK, Now the exact statistics are, well, Gorgs.
• 1:16:25
  Gorgs measure 18 feet tall. Like that's that's that's
• 1:16:29
  Junior's height. That's how big he is in if he
• 1:16:32
  were in real life. So you can imagine how how large
• 1:16:37
  the trash heap actually is. She's pretty massive, but not
• 1:16:41
  comparatively. Yeah, well, we'll see more.
• 1:16:45
  Of the two of these two talking soon and we'll definitely break
• 1:16:48
  that up a little bit more but a little bit the Gorg's garden and
• 1:16:54
  junior start to rake the the soil here and this is such a
• 1:16:59
  good shot of the wind blowing around the two of them and the
• 1:17:05
  soil like there's dirt in the air and like both of them you
• 1:17:09
  don't really get a sense of how long their fur is until until
• 1:17:12
  here where it's really just blowing around in their faces
• 1:17:15
  like it looks great on the screen yeah it's a nice shot
• 1:17:19
  there's. A lot of a lot of leaf blowers
• 1:17:21
  off camera and big fans like giant fans, yeah.
• 1:17:25
  Gigantic fans. Yeah, yeah, I have AI.
• 1:17:28
  Have a behind the scenes shot that I literally I just because
• 1:17:31
  I was watching the episode, I just sent that over to Tim
• 1:17:34
  O'Brien. So maybe you'll see it on on on
• 1:17:37
  social media, But it's it's a shot where Junior and
• 1:17:42
  Pennsylvania are raking and I'm screaming at the top of my
• 1:17:45
  lungs, you know, doing all the juniors lines.
• 1:17:49
  And then the the cherry on top, and this was all credit goes to
• 1:17:53
  Benny for this. At the end of it, it just yells
• 1:17:56
  out and Benny was like, you know, what would be really great
• 1:17:59
  if he just drops to his knees and sort of this, you know, this
• 1:18:04
  Willem Dafoe platoon esque sort of moment.
• 1:18:09
  And and it was absolutely spectacular being able to do
• 1:18:13
  that so much. That's great, is.
• 1:18:15
  There actually dirt in the air or something in the air?
• 1:18:17
  Is it just the wind? They post put all the the dirt
• 1:18:20
  in just the wind. Just the wind there was, I mean,
• 1:18:23
  there's a little bit of, you know, debris flying around, but
• 1:18:28
  but yeah, you can, you can see in the in the BTS stuff that
• 1:18:30
  it's it's mostly wind, a little bit of some, maybe some leaves
• 1:18:35
  and stuff like that. But the rest of it looks.
• 1:18:38
  Gorgeous. Yeah, a lot of Gorgon Max, but
• 1:18:40
  it looks gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous.
• 1:18:44
  Gorgeous. Back under Fraggle Rock,
• 1:18:48
  everyone is exhausted. They've now tunneled down like
• 1:18:50
  an Ant farm underneath Fraggle Rock and everyone's starting to
• 1:18:54
  worry that they're wasting their time.
• 1:18:57
  And now Pogi rushes in and they tell everyone that there's a
• 1:19:00
  dust storm up above from the Gorks gardens.
• 1:19:02
  Another all stuck underground. Things are just getting worse
• 1:19:04
  and worse and worse. Gobo wants to continue fraggling
• 1:19:09
  up and everyone pressures him to come up with a follow up, a
• 1:19:13
  plan. And this is the point where,
• 1:19:16
  like he's hit his limit and he throws down his Cape and he
• 1:19:18
  starts to bawl like a baby. Like he's just.
• 1:19:23
  And he admits that he's scared. He admits he's sad.
• 1:19:26
  He's worried about his relationship with with Junior
• 1:19:29
  Gorg. He's worried about, you know,
• 1:19:31
  all this, like he's trapped all his friends underground.
• 1:19:35
  And I know, I understand that this is really cathartic for
• 1:19:38
  Gobo, but it seemed like it was really cathartic for John
• 1:19:40
  Tartaglia as well. Like he's really pulling this
• 1:19:42
  from somewhere deep inside of himself.
• 1:19:47
  And then think of everything that he does in.
• 1:19:48
  This show think of absolutely everything that he does and it's
• 1:19:53
  it's not, you know, it's not lost on me that there's so many
• 1:19:57
  parallels between between Gobo and Johnny like this is he was
• 1:20:03
  born to be. Gobo in this, in this iteration
• 1:20:07
  of, of, of this series, these characters, because he, he does
• 1:20:11
  keep everything together. He he is like sparkly and shiny
• 1:20:15
  and bouncy and, you know, everybody comes to him to fix
• 1:20:19
  the problems and, and all that. And so it's all it's and you
• 1:20:23
  know, and he looks good in a in a hat.
• 1:20:26
  So it's all of those things are are are just really great
• 1:20:30
  meshes, right. I can.
• 1:20:32
  Imagine Gobo saying like I trapped everybody and junior
• 1:20:36
  hates me and I have to write and direct and perform puppets and
• 1:20:40
  do all the choreography and and someone has to come up to him
• 1:20:42
  and say like, no, no, no, like you're you're pulling this from
• 1:20:45
  the wrong part of your of your of your soul here.
• 1:20:47
  You got to get back to the lines.
• 1:20:50
  The great thing about Johnny? Is that that he does he He does,
• 1:20:55
  he does set those boundaries as well.
• 1:20:57
  And and he relies also on, I'm not speaking for him, but I can
• 1:21:02
  see it that he that he relies on other people's disciplines and,
• 1:21:06
  and experience to be able to pull this off because no one
• 1:21:10
  person can do it, you know, on their own.
• 1:21:12
  And he'd be the first one to tell you that he's not doing it
• 1:21:14
  on his own. It's real.
• 1:21:18
  Yeah. And that's a testament to to
• 1:21:20
  everyone involved that the show gets made.
• 1:21:22
  And so beautiful. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:21:26
  Kobo's outbreak is so cathartic, it's so expressive, that's all.
• 1:21:30
  The other spraggles start to cry as well.
• 1:21:32
  They get so upset that Red and Wembley both grow eyelids.
• 1:21:37
  Yeah. Which is rare.
• 1:21:38
  That's pretty. Upset.
• 1:21:40
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:21:42
  And everyone is sobbing and they're like, not just sobbing,
• 1:21:47
  they're like screaming, sobbing. And they all just kind of get
• 1:21:51
  out of their system. They they just kind of needed
• 1:21:54
  that. I think we all do once in a
• 1:21:55
  while. It's, it's an effective form of
• 1:21:57
  therapy, I suppose on on the. Day I was, I was sobbing as
• 1:22:01
  well, because because of Frank. Frank in his in his eternal
• 1:22:08
  wisdom, decided that it was a great opportunity since he was
• 1:22:12
  going to be boobering up front to hand off the heaviest of all
• 1:22:18
  of our puppets, barring, you know, Icy Joe and and and gave
• 1:22:25
  me large Marvin to to actually puppeteer through this, this
• 1:22:31
  these sequences. And he's a heavy.
• 1:22:35
  Heavy Boy, it's not just a name. Yeah, it's not just a name.
• 1:22:41
  He's he's, he's large and he's, he's gorgeous and I relished the
• 1:22:45
  opportunity to be able to puppeteer him and, and had
• 1:22:48
  studied Frank and, and the way that he had, he had puppeteered
• 1:22:53
  large Marvin during the cry. There's a really, if you'll look
• 1:22:57
  again, looking, looking at background stuff during the cry,
• 1:23:01
  there's a scene where because I love Ingi and and it's
• 1:23:05
  reciprocal. We have a really tremendous
• 1:23:08
  relationship. But she's Lanford and she puts
• 1:23:13
  her, her leaf around large Marvin and consoles him and he's
• 1:23:17
  consoling her at the same time. And it's just it's beautiful.
• 1:23:21
  There's also a little a little snoring sequence where they're
• 1:23:25
  they're falling asleep and he's back-to-back with another frag.
• 1:23:27
  I think it was maybe it was Dean that I was next to or I'm trying
• 1:23:31
  to remember. And he's he's just snoring in
• 1:23:37
  this this rhythmic sort of sense.
• 1:23:40
  And yeah, it was a lot of fun to explore.
• 1:23:42
  Marvin. That's great.
• 1:23:43
  Thank you, Frank. Thank you.
• 1:23:45
  It's part. Of the Stanislavski approach to
• 1:23:47
  puppeteering. Dan, if you've got a character
• 1:23:49
  who's big and heavy in in his in his social graces and his
• 1:23:52
  movements, you got to make a big and heavy for real.
• 1:23:55
  Yeah, yeah, Marvin's. Marvin's a bit of a tank, but
• 1:23:59
  he's fun, Fun character. He's so fun.
• 1:24:01
  He's. So great.
• 1:24:02
  Thank you for the privilege. I appreciate that.
• 1:24:04
  I should point out too that. In in that scene you were
• 1:24:06
  talking about red and Wembley growing eyelids.
• 1:24:09
  Buber did as well. They just weren't seeing.
• 1:24:12
  See what I did there? Yeah, what a what a waste of.
• 1:24:15
  Time that was for someone to build those eyelids and what an
• 1:24:19
  what an. Excellent opportunity to put
• 1:24:21
  eyes you know have have the eyes actually seen.
• 1:24:25
  Crying. And we don't be.
• 1:24:28
  Crying at home. This is where we get our second
• 1:24:34
  song of the episode. It's actually 2 songs.
• 1:24:36
  It makes you cry. Followed immediately by Sister
• 1:24:38
  and brother. We are part of each other.
• 1:24:40
  These are both from the original series episode River of Life,
• 1:24:44
  and I don't have many notes on this song except just to say
• 1:24:47
  that it's really lovely. I like that.
• 1:24:48
  I like a moment where puppets can just kind of stop the
• 1:24:51
  action, just have a nice little song without too much fanfare.
• 1:24:56
  So yeah, I like it. I don't know if you guys have
• 1:24:58
  any stories or any observations about it other than I like it.
• 1:25:02
  It was our We are the world. Moment, it was so good, all of
• 1:25:05
  us singing and swinging together and it I mean the way that it
• 1:25:10
  feels on screen is the way that it felt when we were there and
• 1:25:15
  when and when cameras are off too.
• 1:25:17
  It's just this this beautiful camaraderie and trust.
• 1:25:22
  Yeah, it's it's there's nothing like it.
• 1:25:24
  If this was your. Beer of the World, We are the
• 1:25:27
  world Moments. Who are you?
• 1:25:29
  Are you? Are you Harry Belafonte?
• 1:25:31
  Are you? Oh, definitely Bob Dylan.
• 1:25:33
  Bob Dylan. If I were there, I would have
• 1:25:39
  been the Dan Aykroyd. Like, why is he so Gobo looks
• 1:25:46
  over and he sees a rock with a cut out shape of a hand in it.
• 1:25:50
  And he puts his hand on it and a stone door opens into this huge
• 1:25:54
  cave. There are all these I, I, I
• 1:25:58
  think we find out next episode. They're statues.
• 1:26:00
  But when I first saw this, I thought that they were like
• 1:26:03
  frozen fraggles because they're just armatured, like Gray
• 1:26:07
  armatured fraggles, but they're statues.
• 1:26:10
  And there's these amazing stone chandeliers and these like hand
• 1:26:15
  drawn paintings or tapestries on the wall.
• 1:26:18
  And there's this music cue as they go in.
• 1:26:21
  And I don't know if this was deliberate, but it sounds like
• 1:26:24
  something we would have heard in The Dark Crystal and that would
• 1:26:27
  have been appropriate for somatically for what we're
• 1:26:30
  seeing. Also, the Henson connection,
• 1:26:32
  that would have been cool. Maybe if someone who worked on
• 1:26:35
  the music is listening to this, they can confirm or deny that,
• 1:26:37
  but that was the vibe that I got.
• 1:26:41
  And the Fraggle 5, Lanford, and Cotterpin all entered this
• 1:26:45
  mysterious cave. And while they look around, we
• 1:26:49
  see a cloaked figure secretly watching them.
• 1:26:53
  And to be continued, we're leaving this on a cliffhanger.
• 1:26:57
  You got to tune in next week or right away because it's
• 1:27:00
  streaming right now. Just watch the next episode.
• 1:27:04
  Let me give you a little. Here's a little behind the
• 1:27:06
  scenes knowledge hit. Me with it, the tapestries that.
• 1:27:10
  Are up on the wall. Those are old Karen Prell
• 1:27:13
  sketches. Whoa.
• 1:27:15
  Karen drew those like back in the day, back in the original
• 1:27:18
  series, back in the. Original series and they
• 1:27:21
  reproduce them and place those in in the museum where they
• 1:27:25
  where they damn well belong. Yes, Yeah, it's absolutely
• 1:27:29
  fantastic. Wow, that's great.
• 1:27:32
  I love hearing that. Like what a what a?
• 1:27:34
  Respect for Fraggle rock history you all have, which is, I mean,
• 1:27:40
  continually. Like there's so many things that
• 1:27:42
  you don't have to do and yet there's so much honoring of the
• 1:27:46
  past while still creating something new.
• 1:27:48
  I'm. I'm just blown away by it.
• 1:27:49
  Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:27:53
  So now that we've. Hit this the end of this
• 1:27:54
  episode. Where do you guys have any other
• 1:27:56
  memories or any other observations you want to share
• 1:27:58
  that we maybe skipped over? I got a note.
• 1:28:01
  That it occurred to me watching when they were all digging that
• 1:28:04
  tunnel, that kind of zigzag across the screen and they kind
• 1:28:07
  of used almost a stop motion effect where they're all digging
• 1:28:10
  and then the next shot they're all digging a channel going left
• 1:28:12
  to right. And then the next shot they're
• 1:28:14
  underneath that one digging right to left.
• 1:28:16
  Very effective, very, you know, Pink Panther E very, very
• 1:28:20
  cartoony in a way. And I thought that was a clever
• 1:28:23
  bit of, of a storytelling, visual storytelling that we
• 1:28:26
  hadn't. I don't think we've seen
• 1:28:27
  something like that before that, that skipping passages of time
• 1:28:31
  to indicate, you know, movement through through the underground.
• 1:28:34
  I thought that was cool. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:37
  And a cool way to show that they're moving without having to
• 1:28:40
  show us their legs. Yeah, exactly 'cause we would
• 1:28:43
  have. Had to see them like jumping.
• 1:28:44
  Around yeah, yeah, I can't remember where.
• 1:28:46
  This place is right now. Maybe you can remember, Dan,
• 1:28:48
  there's a beautiful overhead shot, isn't there?
• 1:28:50
  Where they're all around a hole or something?
• 1:28:52
  It just looks gorgeous. Yeah.
• 1:28:53
  We're we're all thinking loose big old hole.
• 1:28:56
  Yeah, yeah, that big old. Hole that was.
• 1:28:58
  That was a magnificent shot. So how did you so is, were you
• 1:29:03
  all standing in a circle and and they edited out the puppeteers
• 1:29:07
  or was everyone kind of filming that in in groups or, or
• 1:29:11
  individually? I think we all stood.
• 1:29:14
  In a circle and that we had a huge jib arm.
• 1:29:19
  Jib armor is a crane. What's the difference?
• 1:29:21
  Big, big old camera. Big old, big old camera.
• 1:29:26
  And so it had, you know, there was probably fully extended and
• 1:29:29
  way, way, way up enough to so that the shot could hold
• 1:29:32
  probably about 25 or or so fraggles.
• 1:29:36
  It's a beautiful shot. When they comped it in post with
• 1:29:38
  the yeah, with the hole, the actual hole that was added
• 1:29:41
  later, but that was another terrific shot.
• 1:29:44
  There's some there's some neat, really neat post in in this
• 1:29:47
  episode. It's a beast if you.
• 1:29:49
  Think about it, because you have to you have to basically edit
• 1:29:53
  out all of these people that are we weren't we weren't in blue.
• 1:29:56
  So I remember that it was we were just we were just us and
• 1:30:00
  and, you know, tried to stay clear of each other, tried to
• 1:30:05
  stay clear. You know, you you put your arm
• 1:30:07
  out as from what I recall, we tried to locate our our bodies
• 1:30:12
  as far away from the puppet so that it was easy to easier to
• 1:30:16
  pull us out of it for that shot. We didn't have anything to hide
• 1:30:21
  up against or underneath or behind because we're all just
• 1:30:25
  kind of there and feeder taught. Frank did.
• 1:30:29
  Did we have, did we have extensions on our feet or were
• 1:30:32
  we just or did they put them in laughter or I don't remember on
• 1:30:37
  that shot. I can't.
• 1:30:37
  I can't recall. Either I have to go and look at
• 1:30:39
  the shot again I because they look steady.
• 1:30:42
  The like, the feet look really firm, Yeah.
• 1:30:45
  Oh, you mean there's there's something?
• 1:30:46
  Attached to the fraggle feet, Yes, they don't swing.
• 1:30:49
  Around I think, I think they don't like their ostapen.
• 1:30:51
  So when you say. Extensions what?
• 1:30:54
  What does? What does that mean?
• 1:30:55
  Like if you're using extensions on on Fraggle puppet feet.
• 1:30:59
  Oh, you basically. Rig a rod to the to the feet and
• 1:31:02
  then you hold them tight so they don't they don't move as much.
• 1:31:06
  Oh, we do them on the on the full body characters anyway that
• 1:31:09
  they're they're kind of there's a place to to rig that.
• 1:31:13
  I don't. I don't.
• 1:31:13
  Recall that if we did. That on on that shot, I don't
• 1:31:16
  think we did. I mean, that's maybe just the
• 1:31:19
  magic of post production, right? Yeah, Yeah, I'm gonna.
• 1:31:22
  I'm gonna say there was a magic wand and somebody very people
• 1:31:26
  doing that. In the witchcraft dash of
• 1:31:29
  voodoo. And then it just magically
• 1:31:31
  happens. Yeah, that sounds.
• 1:31:32
  Appropriately fragly and years and.
• 1:31:35
  Years of, of, of VFX experience and, and skill that went behind
• 1:31:41
  it. Because though all of those
• 1:31:42
  people involved are just tremendously unsung heroes.
• 1:31:47
  The best shots are the ones that you can't tell are VFX shots.
• 1:31:52
  Absolutely. They, they just do an amazing
• 1:31:54
  job at what they do. And just yeah.
• 1:31:57
  Great job. Kudos to the post folks.
• 1:32:00
  Absolutely. So.
• 1:32:03
  As we come to the end of this episode, I have a question that
• 1:32:06
  we like to ask all of our guests who come here to Fraggle talk.
• 1:32:10
  Dan and Frank, how do you plan to make this world a little
• 1:32:14
  fragglier? You know what?
• 1:32:16
  I. I gave you an answer to that
• 1:32:17
  question last time and I'm going to change it for this for this
• 1:32:20
  asking. I think the idea of supporting
• 1:32:24
  your friends, even if their ideas are loony, is a is a good
• 1:32:28
  one and a valid 1 Because with social media, we spread
• 1:32:31
  ourselves so thin between so many quote friends online.
• 1:32:36
  You know, when you have a physical, a friend who you know
• 1:32:38
  and you can talk to and who you can have a coffee with and who
• 1:32:42
  you can tell your crazy ideas too, and they don't run
• 1:32:44
  screaming out of the room. You know, you owe that to your
• 1:32:48
  friends back. And everybody supported Gobo
• 1:32:50
  when he said no trash, he meant this.
• 1:32:53
  Let's all dig to the center of the earth.
• 1:32:56
  It's it's a loony idea. And they all just go, you know,
• 1:33:00
  all right, sounds as reasonable as anything.
• 1:33:01
  Let's let's stick with Gobo until we can't no more.
• 1:33:06
  And even Ma to a degree, you know, sticking with PA through
• 1:33:10
  all that, although I, I put that a deep 2nd place because I think
• 1:33:14
  Ma should give him his comeuppance.
• 1:33:16
  So, you know, maybe a few years earlier, but but that'll be,
• 1:33:21
  that'll be my take away. You know, if you have if you
• 1:33:23
  have friends, support them and not just through the good times,
• 1:33:26
  but support them through their troubles.
• 1:33:28
  Because it won't be forever till you're the one with troubles and
• 1:33:32
  you'll appreciate having a friend who's there to back you
• 1:33:34
  up. The the F is for.
• 1:33:36
  Friendship. That's it.
• 1:33:38
  The F should be. For friendship, Yeah, that's
• 1:33:40
  right. Dan, how would how do you plan
• 1:33:43
  to make the world a little fragglier, I guess?
• 1:33:46
  Anyone who's followed me on, on social media knows that I kind
• 1:33:51
  of put stuff out there, motivational things, things that
• 1:33:54
  I'm trying to preach to myself, encouraging this or or whatever.
• 1:34:01
  And a lot of it is, is self talk because, you know, these past,
• 1:34:09
  these past few years, I've gone through a lot of, a lot of
• 1:34:12
  changes, a lot of trials, a lot of like just, it's been really,
• 1:34:19
  it's been challenging to find, to find Dan and to, to love Dan
• 1:34:26
  and, and all of that and to fix Dan and just to be the better
• 1:34:32
  version of myself. And I wasn't always like that.
• 1:34:36
  And therapy is, is huge for me, talking to people and not just
• 1:34:43
  pushing those feelings down. This episode really resonated
• 1:34:47
  when I watched it again because I've, I've seen this episode
• 1:34:49
  probably, you know, 3 or 4 times since we were in contact like,
• 1:34:53
  hey, we want to do this. Oh yeah, yeah, sure.
• 1:34:56
  And, and every time I'm like, Oh yeah, that's right.
• 1:34:59
  I was there. Oh God.
• 1:35:02
  And, and so I think self help is the, is the only way to
• 1:35:08
  positively affect the world that surrounds us.
• 1:35:11
  And, and cutting myself some slack and, and not being so self
• 1:35:20
  reliant and, and not being so not living beside, behind a
• 1:35:23
  facade of, of who you know, who I'm supposed to be.
• 1:35:27
  I have to be me. And, and yeah, I've come a long
• 1:35:32
  way in that process. And yeah, I don't mean to turn
• 1:35:36
  this into a therapy session, but oh gosh, yeah.
• 1:35:40
  It's it's kind of that's the only way that I can affect
• 1:35:42
  proper change around me is, is by being the best version of
• 1:35:47
  myself right now. And tomorrow, hopefully, I'll be
• 1:35:51
  a better version of me from, you know, the day before and and
• 1:35:55
  passing on that love and empathy to to others.
• 1:35:59
  Well, Dan, you've been a great friend to us over the years.
• 1:36:03
  And you know, from my perspective, you're a great guy
• 1:36:06
  and I'm so grateful to have you here talking about the stuff
• 1:36:09
  with us and to have this little impromptu therapy session.
• 1:36:14
  We're all we're all learning a lot about you right now.
• 1:36:17
  But to make your invoice, that'd be.
• 1:36:19
  Great. You're right.
• 1:36:20
  Exactly. Dan Garza, Frank Mescalay, thank
• 1:36:22
  you both so much for being here. Thank you for all the work
• 1:36:25
  you've done on Back to the Rock. And we're going to keep our
• 1:36:28
  fingers crossed. We'll get to do this again next
• 1:36:30
  year for Season 3. And we'll have you back on the
• 1:36:32
  podcast. Yeah, let's do.
• 1:36:34
  Let's do six in a movie. How about that
• 1:36:46
  Fraggle talk the. Unofficial Fraggle Rock Podcast
• 1:36:48
  is brought to you by toughpigs.com.
• 1:36:50
  Produced, written and hosted by Joe Hennis, Fraggle Talk, art by
• 1:36:54
  Dave Holtzene, Junior Fraggle Rock mark and logo.
• 1:36:57
  Characters and elements are trademarks of Jim Henson
• 1:36:59
  Company. All rights reserved.
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  Transcripts provided by Caitlin Miller.
• 1:37:03
  Fraggle Rock theme song written by Philip Balsam and Dennis Lee
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  is used with permission. Special thanks to the Jim Henson
• 1:37:09
  Company, Apple TV Plus and the entire Fraggle Rock.
• 1:37:12
  Back to the Rock family. Be sure to follow Tough Pigs at
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  us on Patreon or by buying merchandise on T public.
• 1:37:26
  For more Fraggle podcast fun, listen to Fraggle Talk classic
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  on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening and we'll
• 1:37:33
  see you next time down at Fraggle Talk.