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An Inside Look at MKBHD's 18-Person Team · Gimbal Podcast

• 0:00
  A lot of the reason that we have so much stability and we're so fortunate is because
• 0:03
  How do you measure success? You need to be at 100%. What works and what doesn't?
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  I want to be in a place where other YouTubers want to copy us. Do you think that YouTube is sending
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  mixed signals? Do you think that they just don't know what they're doing? No, I'd like,
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  why do we want to be the new Hollywood? If you don't feel good about a video, don't upload it.
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  I'm Eric. I'm the creative lead for the studio at MKBHD and I make $150,000 a year.
• 0:27
  Today on gimbal, my guest is Eric Villa. He is the head of content strategy for the studio,
• 0:33
  which is a sister channel to the MKBHD Enterprise. The studio for those who have never watched
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  is all about the people who work behind the scenes at MKBHD. We talk about the creator economy,
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  tech adjacent stories, and what it's like to work in an environment where everybody's on camera
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  and everybody is obsessed with YouTube. Let's get into it. Is it like a requirement for everyone
• 0:56
  on your team to be okay with being filmed at any given moment? Yes. It's not a requirement.
• 1:09
  We don't have, we had an employee handbook for the first time like six months ago. This is a
• 1:14
  starter. You know what I mean? We're very scrappy and we're very lateral. Nobody is on top of another
• 1:20
  person. Nobody outranks another person. We all have our responsibilities and what you're assigned,
• 1:25
  you are the person that has to own that. And so in the case of like being on camera,
• 1:31
  the expectation is never you need to be on camera. It's always like this is a fun thing you could
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  be doing if you're bored, if you have time, if you're excited about this. And a lot of my job is
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  just like sitting and listening to people and being like, oh, you find this like specific color
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  really interesting. Let's do a short. Oh, you find this concept in physics really interesting
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  and how it relates to audio post processing. Let's find a short for it. And so it's just like
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  figuring out what people are passionate about. The audience can tell that Mark has is hiring
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  these like smart, nerdy, weird people. And I think that makes them excited. Okay, I want to zoom
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  out a little bit just to kind of like get my grounds on everything that you do and everything
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  that the studio is as well as like the whole MKBHD enterprise. So MKBHD has like that's a business
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  that has a bunch of different channels and one of which is the studio, which is the behind the scenes
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  of all the crazy and eventful things that take place in and around Marquez's life. Yes,
• 2:30
  you are the creative lead for the studio. Yes, so I'll give you sort of an overview for how
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  the entire sort of business is organized all of the different creative projects. So we've got
• 2:44
  MKBHD. Marquez Brownlee, been making videos since he was like 14 years old, just like reviewing
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  phones and he's really good at it. Most of the people on our team are in some way, shape or form
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  support for that channel. There are cinematographers, there's set designers, there's thumbnail designers,
• 3:01
  there's motion designers, a lot of design. So that's the majority of the people on our team.
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  Then we also... How many people just to get an idea? We have 18 people, 18 people.
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  That's a big team by YouTube standards. Yes, yes. Yeah, we're all in New Jersey except for
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  our motion designer who's in San Francisco and I asked him for vlog footage in San Francisco
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  all the time because it's so much cooler than New Jersey. But yeah, so we've got the main channel
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  and then we have autofocus, that's our car YouTube channel, it's instead of reviewing phones,
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  Marquez reviews, cars. So we have one producer for that, that job is a lot of
• 3:44
  politicking but it's also a test driving the cars. So he drives a new car every week, it's miles,
• 3:48
  miles is like my very close friends, I can tell you many stories about them. Yeah, I love that guy.
• 3:55
  That's a very appropriate name for a car channel. Autofocus, I know, right? Miles?
• 4:02
  Yeah, well his personal YouTube channel is called Cars with Miles, which is just like...
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  I love it. Yeah, I know. He was destined for this, there's literally...
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  We live in the US so we can say Miles, but like if he was somewhere in Europe he'd have to be
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  cars with kilometers, like it's just the same way. Doesn't Riff is nicely off the top.
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  Yeah, it doesn't, it doesn't. I keep talking with all the kilometers, but it's just not.
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  So that's autofocus, it's entirely shot on cars. So a lot of Miles' job is like
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  get the cars in, coordinate with the press fleets, like there's like a lot of coordination
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  that goes into getting like a new car delivered every week. And so he's like very logistics-oriented
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  relationship management with all those companies. That's kind of his main jam. He was originally
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  brought in as a cinematographer too, so he'll prove on like different shoots for studio or for
• 4:53
  main channel as needed as well. And then we have the Waveform podcast that features five different
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  people, Marquez, Andrew, who we call our studio dad. He was employee number one. And he's kind
• 5:05
  of just like the soul of the company. Like Andrew, Andrew is essentially our org builder. He sits
• 5:09
  at the tone for the culture, how people behave. We have David, who he was Marquez's writer researcher,
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  and now he's all in on the podcast. So he's like a producer with the pod. And then there's two
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  pod producers who are responsible for one for the audio post that's Ellis. He's also a big talent
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  for the studio. And then one who is responsible for the video post that's Adam. They come up with
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  the show ideas. They research all the trivia questions. And all of them are on camera. So if you
• 5:37
  ever listen to that podcast during like an intense like Newsweek, it's just like five people
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  reaming. And it's so much fun. And then there's the studio. And it's it's really weird because all
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  of those other channels, the main focus is Marquez. And the studio, the main focus is the ensemble.
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  So we have Marquez. But oftentimes Marquez will appear in studio videos for the first like minute
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  to establish the concept, establish trust, and then hand off to another member of our team
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  to tell the full story. So we've had videos where our studio manager teaches himself how to 3D
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  print over the course of a few months. And we show all of his 3D prints. We have other videos
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  where our audio producers like I want to build an entire set and then do an entire like a huge
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  game show with like a bunch of people and moving lights and like all all of this crazy production
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  stuff. And we're like, okay, let's do it. And so the focus of the studio is like how can we with
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  give or take like two hours of Marquez's time every month, create an entire property. And I
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  can inspire ensemble where anybody can appear. A lot of really weird strategic decisions that
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  have to go on there. But that's the purpose of the studio is just showcasing everything that
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  that we are. How did you decide we need this channel? I was not initially brought on for this
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  channel. I started building the studio about two years ago a year and a half ago. So I can give
• 7:04
  you the origin story for how I was brought into Marquez's universe. Yeah, where did that start?
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  So you were part of MKBHD first? Like the major? No, dude. The story is like long and winding
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  quite treacherous. Okay, so one day when I'm like 14, I really want to get a smartphone and I'm
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  determining events of my parents, which one I'm going to get. And so I watch every review and I come
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  across this guy making videos in his college dorm, who's been making them since he was my age at
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  at the time, you know, 13, 14. And I was like, this guy's awesome. So I start making my own tech
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  YouTube videos at 14. My first one to catch any traction was a YouTube video titled MKBHD
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  is Spider-Man, where I just need the dumb, like it's like I in a way I'm proud of it because it's
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  kind of like the OG creator video essay like pre-consumer, like pre like this whole industry. I was
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  just like, there's something weird culturally happening here. It's kind of proud of myself for
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  that. But my actual takes are like, Marquez is in Hoboken. That's next to New York, Spider-Man's in
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  New York. I wasn't especially smart. But anyway, so I tweet that I made this video in Marquez
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  comments on it. And he's just like, huh, nice. And video blows up. That's like 40,000 views for me
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  overnight. And I'm just like, I'm just going to be a YouTuber forever. So I'm on month like six
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  of making YouTube videos on on 14. And this kid slides into my DMs. He's like, hey, we're both kids
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  in this subreddit of Chicago. We're both making tech YouTube videos. We both love comic books.
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  We shouldn't meet up and make videos together. So we meet up. My mom is standing like a block
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  away with like binoculars making sure you don't get stolen. Yeah. And yeah, that guy was Miles
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  Somerville. I see. Okay. Miles and I go to film school together. He's the cinematographer for every
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  shoot that I produce. I shoot a bunch of his YouTube videos, car YouTube videos, phone reviews.
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  Those are the videos that Marquez notices. And so Marquez recruits Miles. And then about a year
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  and a half into miles. Marquez just organically noticed. Or is it have to do with being spotted?
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  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Have him on the team. Oh, cool. Okay. Yeah. And he didn't even bring
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  him on to do the car stuff. He brought Miles on because he's like, I just think this like this
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  person is talented and we'll find a place for him. And that's how almost everyone is brought on.
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  It's like, we're like, okay, we're betting on you as a talent, not necessarily you as a role.
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  And so there's a cinematographer. And then he invents the role of autofocus producer. And then
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  he's like, we need to invent the role of like a content strategy lead. Or like somebody who like can
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  do numbers and analytics and stuff. Since the studio's growth strategy can't entirely be based
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  around Marquez's celebrity. For he pitches me, I get an intro to Marquez. And I pitch my heart out
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  in that meeting. And now we're here. So all of this is thanks to one kid DMing me and my mother's
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  standing. You feed away and making sure I'm not kidnapped. Let me figure out the timeline for
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  a second because there was the MKBHD channel. I remember waveform launching. I remember autofocus
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  launching and the studio. But I don't remember the exact like timeline of events. So you're saying
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  that Miles joined the team. And then based on that, based on him joining and Marquez also
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  liking cars, they were like, okay, we have something here with autofocus. Let's launch that.
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  No. So Marquez just launches stuff. And then we find the team in time. So autofocus was already
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  rolling. And Miles was like, I want to pick it up another. Right. Okay. Okay. A lot of initiative.
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  Yeah. It's a lot of initiative. Like I think I think a lot of the reason that we're successful is
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  because everything can start scrappy. The audit, like the podcast was just like,
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  Marquez and Andrew were like, okay, we talk about tech every day. Let's just do microphone,
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  just do audio, no video, low expectations. And once they validated that the show format worked,
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  they doubled down on it in video and hired the team around it. Autofocus was Marquez is like, okay,
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  I'm getting some cars in. I'll say yes to the cars. I'll shoot the reviews on phones. If people
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  like the vibe of the phone will keep working with it. The studio was like, okay, we have people
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  here. Sometimes they have slack. Sometimes they have time. Let's just let anybody make a video and
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  just give them a channel to express their creativity. Because tech videos can, like, there's a lot of
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  pride in it. There's a lot of individualism like you want to be seen. You know what I mean? And
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  it's all because you also don't want to like see all these people behind the scenes in Marquez's
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  videos. That's distracting. And so it became a home for people to kind of express themselves. And
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  it became a big part of the culture to make sure that people felt like they had skin in the game.
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  And then again, it was like, okay, this is validated. Let's level up.
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  Gotcha. It just seems like everything that comes out of your camp always succeeds.
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  Like the studio is cool. Autofocus was cool from day one. Waveform made a lot of sense from day one.
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  But you're saying, oh no, we're quick and scrappy trying to figure out if things are going right or
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  things are going poorly. That's just interesting. I don't know. It seems like you got a really good
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  team over there. Yeah, I think like I think a lot of it comes down to the brand equity of Marquez.
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  Like I can't sit here and and deny that that's like a huge differentiator because even when he's
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  not in a video, the fact that you know, like, oh, Marquez trusts this person to work on his team.
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  I can trust them to be a domain expert in this. It instantly just lends to a solid performing
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  video. There's a very tight correlation between trust and retention on YouTube. That's just
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  and and the reality is trust is built with time and it's built with integrity and it's not easy
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  to initially quantify. But a lot of the reason that we have so much stability and we're so fortunate
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  is because we just try to regularly show up and we do our best so that every decision sort of feels
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  like you know that we have like your best intentions in mind and we're just very active about
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  communicating as much as possible so that like the audience knows they are our boss and that is
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  the reality like Marquez is not our boss. We are all at the behest of the audience that we trust.
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  Yeah, trust is a big one and the way that you describe it, it makes me think, oh yeah, if
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  anything comes out of your camp, there's a strong likelihood I'm going to give it a shot because I
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  trust you and your team in Marquez with so much like I trust them so much to to put something out
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  so maybe that's why I'm feeling like you guys can do no wrong. Interesting. How do you maintain
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  that kind of trust? Like do you ever have a video and you're like you look at it and you're like
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  I don't know. We're not delivering on our own expectations here and you can't it.
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  Yeah, I mean I'll tell you personally from the studio's perspective. There was one day we're like
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  we were working on this video and like we got like six products in and we were testing all of them
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  and we were going to make this whole video and like every time we use the products we're like
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  it's not that it's bad, it's just not that it's especially good. Like I don't have anything to say
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  here and our business guy pulls me aside and he's like if you don't feel good about a video,
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  don't upload it. So for the first year of the studio's channel you can look at our posting
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  frequency. We really wanted to do a video every other week and we ended up landing now on our
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  rhythm of a video a month and the goal is just for the videos to get longer and the reason that
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  we landed on that for the studio is because we want the ability to scrap videos and so the studio
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  there was a point where we were scrapping half of our videos last year. We just killed and we're
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  fortunate enough that we're in a business where we're insulated from a lot of the business
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  pressure to immediately post those wins and we're also in a business where the reality is like
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  the brand matters more than anything. So if you keep pumping out a bunch of stuff that you know
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  as mediocre, the audience will know it's mediocre and then that hurts the really most important
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  part of what we're doing. We're definitely quick to scrap until we start to find systems where we're
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  like okay I can with confidence in no or providing value here. What are like your parameters or
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  what does it take to green light a video? Would someone who loves tech watch this video
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  first and foremost like could somebody who watches a Marques video or listens to
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  waveform every week or watches an autofocus video also find some value here right? The instinct is
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  to do stuff that's just for creators and I was very quick to be like no no no no no like creators
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  is like too specific of a term like we want to talk to people who like appreciate craftsmanship
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  on like a very holistic level. So like can this be like value that we can provide to the audience we
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  already have is like definitely number one and then number two is can we build a format where
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  anybody in the studio can feel comfortable participating in it or multiple people in the studio
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  can feel comfortable participating in it. If you look at like the history of ensemble channels
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  you've got like Buzzfeed, Vox and Vice is like the top three. All three of those companies are really
• 15:54
  struggling on YouTube now because the top tier talents that became the reason that people watched
• 15:59
  ended up being like I used to do this on my own I'll just go in the audience follow them and so
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  these companies were in a really rough place and I was worried that something similar would happen
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  to the studio if we kept building out systems where like the same three people were always the face
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  and so for us it's like can we provide value and can we provide value in a format a format that is
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  unique to just the studio a format that is unique not because of any individual person but because
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  of the fact that we are in this ensemble and this sort of exceptional workplace and that has sort
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  of been at the center of the content strategy is asking like how can we get the audience to watch
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  for the studio and not to watch for MKBHD Jr and like look at these like for different talents
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  that they really love we have 18 people you're not going to know who all 18 people are so if my value
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  can of the video can be captured in a simple format that anybody can easily understand we can
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  platform anybody at the studio it makes logistics easier but I think it also just makes the brand
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  more valuable we have a firm like the thumbnails either the products or Marquez because those two
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  things are constant and so that way we can earn a click and then the other big thing is like we
• 17:08
  want to always make sure we're like making it clear like we are an ensemble and we trust each
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  other and so oftentimes like when somebody has that trust the key is not like suppress them it's
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  ask how can this person dovetail into platforming someone else someone else who's new someone
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  else who has a new concept a video I'm really proud of is our video about Teslas and like the EV
• 17:32
  market so we brought our car guy on on the studio and then we brought our business guy and like the
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  car guy the whole episode is just like the car guy takes the business guy into three different cars
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  and he's like ditch your car and get one of these cool ones and it was so fun because and the whole
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  premise was just like let's take this young guy Miles who everyone knows and let's take
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  one of the older guys in our office John who like has this kind of cult following because he
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  worked for another big tech youtuber and let's just put them together and it lets it like really
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  great chemistry and I'm really happy with it and apparently every time John gets his car wash
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  people are like oh senior video but like yeah a lot of what we think about when it comes to platforming
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  is like okay we've got traction with this one person how do we dovetail everything is about
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  like how do you make the handoff so that people the audience can authentically feel that like we
• 18:21
  trust each other therefore they can trust people that they don't know yeah what a unique position
• 18:26
  to be in running an ensemble channel like that there's not a lot of like ensemble channels they're
• 18:30
  at the size that you guys are at so it's interesting to see the problems in the way that you solve
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  those problems how much audience overlap is there between the channels yeah it's it's it's
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  it's the same people same people watching everything or yeah I mean you know like I'd say like
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  Marquez is the widest funnel and then like the funnels get lower and then autofocus is kind of
• 18:50
  in its own niche because it's in the car niche but we also crush with like EVs and very techy cars
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  so it's like very clear overlap with our universe as well are you taking Marquez's videos and
• 19:03
  promoting the studio I haven't seen that too much recently so it just kind of lies independently
• 19:08
  how do people land on you is it just because you come up with formats that are good and they kind
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  of hit their own level of virality we spend a lot of time on ideation to ask like what are
• 19:18
  concepts that people want to know about that Marquez is not the best person to talk about or that
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  the ensemble is better suited to talk about and if those two things pass then the studio is
• 19:30
  probably the right home for those topics it sounds like you're not necessarily chasing views it
• 19:35
  feels like views is an important thing to be considerate of but it sounds like maybe this is a
• 19:40
  depth play with your existing audience and trying to make them love the MKBHD brand even more
• 19:46
  than they already do yeah I can measure success it's a super super super good question so when I
• 19:54
  interviewed with Marquez I was like Marquez just so you know the other three properties you have are
• 19:59
  blank format but it's with Marquez Brown like it's it's a car review but now you got Marquez it's
• 20:05
  a phone review but it's with Marquez it's you know it's a podcast but Marquez is there and I'm like
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  this is a channel where we can't do blank but Marquez we've just got to come up with something
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  completely new and I was like what does success look like to you because like I can optimize
• 20:22
  reviews but I have a feeling that like you're not going to like me posting a short a day or you know
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  like whatever it is that's like going to run up these numbers he's just like I want to be in a
• 20:30
  place where other youtubers want to copy us not because it's like nefarious but just because
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  it's like we're setting the tone and I'm like we're figuring out what should be happening in this
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  space and so I think for me a lot of what I'm thinking is like what is the norm why is that the
• 20:47
  norm and how can I speak to that same value but do it in a way that only we can or that nobody has
• 20:53
  done before and a lot of ways I like to think of the studio is kind of like this maybe think tank
• 20:58
  or like this this place to play around with new tech new concepts new formats new talents where
• 21:03
  the larger audience might be like not into that they're just like just tell me what phone to buy
• 21:08
  but this audience is like along for the ride of that creative discovery and you've solved a problem
• 21:14
  that exists all across the creator economy which is such a high dependency on the number one
• 21:19
  like we have that on our team as well when we're working with Mark Manson like everything depends
• 21:23
  on him and it sounds like Marquez does play an integral role in the success of the studio but
• 21:29
  if you only need him for two hours a month that's that's pretty good and he can go and do his
• 21:34
  you know ultimate frisbee tournaments and he can go to kupertino and you know attend all these
• 21:38
  events and stuff like that and you can still kind of move the needle forward sure what's your
• 21:43
  recommendation for creators that probably have smaller audiences smaller teams and are struggling
• 21:49
  with that kind of thing like is it a good idea to build a side channel around their own staff or
• 21:55
  like how can you branch out in a way that reduces the load on the number one person
• 22:00
  yeah I think like when it comes to the question of creator scaling you have to like okay I have
• 22:05
  this phenomenon that I think about a lot a few years ago I tried to start a startup and at first
• 22:12
  it worked really well it was a creator talent marketplace where you could essentially hire
• 22:17
  kids to run up a tiktok page for your brand and so you could have like 50 different pages for
• 22:22
  your brand and you could just click click click click click and have 50 tiktok pages for you overnight
• 22:28
  and I discovered that there was this really interesting phenomenon you have a spectrum right
• 22:32
  and at one end of the spectrum you have these hundred percenters these are people who are good
• 22:36
  on camera they're smart they can come up with a content strategy they're well spoken they don't
• 22:39
  want to work for anyone they don't have to do anyone right that's the way that's the Johnny Harris
• 22:45
  right and then at the other end you've got the zeros who are like oh I can get paid to point a
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  camera and like they don't have any of the skills you need to be at 100 percent in order to to
• 22:56
  grow one of these brands and so you need to ask like what is the company doing to fill the gap
• 23:01
  for you what is the differentiator that you're giving people so that you can hire a 65 or a 70
• 23:07
  percenter and then the company gives you the 30 right I joined MKVHD my personal YouTube channel
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  never passed 7000 subscribers but I was good with data and we have plenty of data to work with
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  I was good at working with talent and like understanding what kind of stories they wanted to tell
• 23:22
  so we could kind of build a team around that and we hired a co-producer who was great with a camera
• 23:28
  because we knew we have red cameras and we have c70s and we have all this gear that Eric probably
• 23:33
  wasn't that good with but if we bring in a second producer who can shoot with it that's another
• 23:38
  added compounded differentiator and so when you put those three things together now we have a brand
• 23:43
  now me and my co-producer Rich we actually have differentiation whereas either of us alone
• 23:49
  maybe we couldn't run up a channel and so I think the question need to ask is like what differentiation
• 23:54
  is being with Mark's company or what differentiation are you getting at Mark's company that is
• 23:59
  genuinely making the content here better because if you guys are just a podcast and you don't have
• 24:06
  access to exceptional resource or exceptional talent or good research or whatever it is that
• 24:11
  further differentiates you this is a winner take all market and you know taking two people who
• 24:18
  don't have access to those resources you're only going to get so far you guys have
• 24:22
  not just a second channel but a third fourth and fourth fifth channel tell us about what works
• 24:28
  and what doesn't and like everything you've learned about adding more channels if you have a
• 24:34
  different value prop then you have a different audience if you have a different audience you need
• 24:38
  to have a different channel and being a different channel that's affiliated with a bigger one
• 24:43
  doesn't mean that channel will be bigger it needs to stand alone as its own independently very good
• 24:48
  product you made it sound so simple the counter argument is like well I've got a big main channel
• 24:54
  and like why don't I just start a podcast and put it on the main channel I've heard that argument
• 24:59
  I just like does your audience want that and like and like if if if the content that's on your
• 25:06
  main channel deserves to be these like longer form podcast conversations is there evidence that
• 25:13
  you're losing attention to podcasts that are entertaining people better also from a volume
• 25:19
  point of view and YouTube other than point of view if you're uploading an hour long video every
• 25:24
  single week and then one like 10 minute long essay you risk just sending poor signals and like
• 25:30
  tanking the average view duration of that content because you just have like a fundamentally yeah
• 25:35
  just because the algorithm is going to see that and be like oh the watch time on this video is
• 25:39
  exceptionally low so you know I think it depends on each individual channel but for the most part
• 25:46
  like if you have something that's working in an audience that you like you are already in like
• 25:52
  the top 4% of creators like don't mess with that make it better like the energy that you're putting
• 25:58
  into pivoting and starting a new thing that's that is like completely different you could be putting
• 26:03
  into just compounding and making the content on the main channel the best in your category
• 26:08
  and I think that that's almost always the right allocation of resource if you want to start a
• 26:13
  podcast that is a separate product and so I argue you need to treat it as such there is nuances
• 26:20
  there if you're good with communication if you're good with like telling the audience what they like
• 26:24
  frankly if you're not really in growth mode then it makes sense to go for a volume first strategy
• 26:29
  but if the priority is growth especially sub-growth making sure that each channel has a very clear
• 26:35
  codified simple value prop and a format that people can come back to over and over again is going
• 26:40
  to improve sub conversion and I think you're overall long-term flywheel and your ability to retain
• 26:46
  that audience so that that might come at like the compromise if you're planning to start a second
• 26:51
  if you're sorry if you want a podcast or a behind the scenes channel and you put it on the main
• 26:56
  channel you may get 10x the views in that very first video because then you would
• 27:01
  launching an independent channel but you're saying that it has negative repercussions down the line
• 27:05
  like it sends bad signals to the algorithm it creates this like mix of confusion between what
• 27:10
  the audience is actually subscribed for yeah there's just more decay right there's or the like
• 27:16
  there's just there's more decay with that concept and it could end up you know you just double the
• 27:21
  chances that people don't like some of the content right if you have if you have one format
• 27:27
  that people love and then you introduce them to another format that they don't you run the risk
• 27:31
  if people going well I like that other one but if 70% of the content on this channel is the one
• 27:35
  that I'm I could care less about maybe I don't watch the the marquee format and like there's
• 27:42
  nuance here because like browse features is such so good and like nobody watches their sub box
• 27:48
  that there are channels that just fully pump volume but go look at IGN sub growth it's like
• 27:55
  it's it's not doing anything and they they look like nine videos a day and so yeah I think like
• 28:00
  the more you up volume the more you prioritize profitability over growth that's not a bad thing like
• 28:08
  that happens in every business cycle but you making that decision consciously to say I'm trying to
• 28:13
  build a profitable media enterprise over an enterprise in growth mode or I'm going to find a
• 28:19
  different growth vehicle that is not YouTube's organic growth algorithm and this like can't pull
• 28:23
  content that's fair but I think you need to consciously go in understanding what those
• 28:28
  tradeoffs are and I don't know if a lot of creators do what do you think about the fact that YouTube
• 28:32
  says oh any given day any good video can pop off or the fact that YouTube has placed a podcast
• 28:40
  tab on every channel and it's it's encouraging people to post put the podcast on the main channel
• 28:46
  do you think that YouTube is sending mixed signals do you think that they just don't know what they're
• 28:49
  doing like no so I anytime so distribution shapes creative right the like the UX that you watch
• 28:56
  this video in is going to shape whether or not you like this video if you came across this podcast
• 29:02
  episode on Netflix or on 2b you'd be like this sucks you know if this is if this was on what's
• 29:08
  the streaming service I think it's 2b the one of her is like you just got to believe and then he
• 29:12
  finds a way to bend the bullet anyways great mean look it up guys like the distribution shapes
• 29:19
  creative right so if YouTube actively changes the UX so that it is easier to manage a podcast with
• 29:26
  a bunch of clipping in one shared universe then it that starts to influence whether or not I think
• 29:32
  it makes sense to do those spin-offs or to contain everything on one channel but for the time
• 29:39
  being I think the big thing is like and this is this is an analytics thing which means it can
• 29:44
  change and it's not a perfect science but generally I see a pretty tight correlation between
• 29:48
  subscribers and you having a very clear like one-of-one value prompt like the quote the core
• 29:54
  reason that people subscribe to the studio isn't the ensemble that's the reason people come back
• 29:58
  and engage but the core reason people come to the studios because they want to see multiple
• 30:02
  products featured in a video that fit into our daily lifestyles that's like that is our value
• 30:08
  and so if we want to retain the subscribers that we're gaining in each video and slowly build a
• 30:11
  flywheel where our our lows become higher and our highs become higher then we need to put ourselves
• 30:17
  in a position where we remain steady on that value prop and we just over execute and always treat
• 30:21
  people better and better to educate them on that value prop of how can I learn about a high density
• 30:27
  of interesting products that fit into our daily lives I've heard it called like shows right like
• 30:32
  think of your channel like a show like you wouldn't like you wouldn't watch an episode of the office
• 30:37
  and then the next episode is something that's completely different like a two-hour episode that
• 30:41
  feels more like a podcast than like the original episode of the of the office 100% but granted but
• 30:48
  then you have shows like Atlanta which inherently lean into a surrealist and they and they set the
• 30:53
  expectation from jump of like this is a surrealist crazy show and so when weird stuff happens you're
• 31:01
  like oh nice that's Atlanta right but that's baked into it exactly yeah same with community right
• 31:07
  like every episode is gonna be different but it's yeah I see what you're saying so so like and
• 31:12
  and but those are also those are great examples of shows that didn't do well on that or television
• 31:17
  they did well within the user experience of streaming television that UX actually impacted your
• 31:23
  ability to enjoy that creative those shows both struggled on that work well I mean Atlanta was a
• 31:28
  hit on network mostly because of awards but it was from what we understand most of your ship happened
• 31:33
  on Hulu right exact same concept is happening here in terms of content and so maybe you you're
• 31:38
  communicating like this is a variety show and sometimes you get a podcast and sometimes you get
• 31:42
  this and sometimes you get that but that needs to be like like the audience needs to understand how
• 31:46
  everything flows into from one and the other not like these things can't be optional Mark when
• 31:52
  Rick has talks about like what he wants to make a video on he oftentimes will cite like if
• 31:57
  somebody on his frisbee team is like you what what's happening with that triple folding phone you
• 32:03
  you know what I mean and he like he he understands that speaking to his audience is oftentimes like
• 32:08
  speaking to a few homies that you right right and so a lot of this like oh anticipate the algorithm
• 32:13
  figure out what your audience wants look at the analytics a lot of it is actually just asking yourself
• 32:18
  how can I feel like I know this person really deeply you know what I mean and like every video
• 32:23
  you give them is almost like you being able to just like be a good partner and get your partner like
• 32:27
  a good gift for the for their birthday or for an anniversary or something we're like you can just
• 32:32
  see it and you just know like hmm they're gonna like this like hmm I'm gonna get brownie points
• 32:37
  today it's the exact same concept for making a video like you're just learning about this person
• 32:42
  or these individuals and if you can imagine and have a relationship with that audience or you just
• 32:47
  know how to treat them really well you will be rewarded for it it is like the parasocial
• 32:53
  relationship goes both ways the audience doesn't just see Marquez there is a relationship that Marquez
• 32:59
  has to the audience and how he anticipates their needs their wants and how to over execute on
• 33:04
  their behalf completely agree are these things that you talk about all the time at work are you
• 33:09
  talking about you don't talk about them as much okay well I don't know we talk about like this
• 33:13
  state of YouTube a lot like Harper and I have like active debates about the whole like oh YouTube's
• 33:18
  the new Hollywood um okay you know that kind of thing um which seems true right now I mean YouTube
• 33:26
  is certainly saying it themselves ah you don't think so now I'm like why do we want to be the
• 33:32
  new Hollywood Hollywood is based off of like extorting a bunch of young people who come to this place
• 33:38
  and work for nothing for years so that a few people can get really rich and do nothing for
• 33:43
  years after that that is lame the creator economy is awesome okay I'm do you know I'd be doing
• 33:49
  it Hollywood right now nothing or I'd be making billions of dollars I am making an appropriate
• 33:55
  middle class income to live a good life and there's millions of people this is like I don't want
• 34:00
  this to change I don't want this to be Hollywood I want other people like creator economy I agree I
• 34:06
  agree I love it you're preaching to the choir right now yeah I'm into that for sure I don't
• 34:10
  think we need to like merge into what already exists we're kind of paving our own way and it's
• 34:15
  more about like Hollywood acknowledging the creator economy than the creator economy trying to be like
• 34:19
  Hollywood dude so much of this just feels like everyone with like mommy and daddy issues and you
• 34:24
  just like want your parents to tell you that like our work is valid yeah we don't need our parents
• 34:30
  okay we're just like we're good at what we do and millions of love it and like yeah it might not
• 34:39
  be your auntie my abuela literally has no idea what a studio of it is that's okay that's okay
• 34:46
  so I'm hearing you're not going to be one of those creators that are lobbying for an Emmy next year
• 34:51
  you're completely independent that you don't need that no hey man I love an Emmy I'm both okay
• 34:56
  is that mommy and daddy issues then what's going on oh my gosh how much is my copay for this podcast
• 35:02
  gonna be do you think that the creator economy is in a healthier position for behind the scenes
• 35:10
  employees from like a financial from a stability perspective then Hollywood is then Hollywood is
• 35:15
  long-term yes but the the outlier risk is still the fact that with there's no infrastructure for
• 35:20
  unionization and I don't know if unionization would work but I also know that there are a lot
• 35:27
  of people who do more work than I do who work on bigger channels than I do who might be struggling
• 35:33
  to make ends meet I do think that like the economic reality of our space is it's not spoken about
• 35:40
  because we we put creators themselves and these entrepreneurs on pedestals and the people behind
• 35:46
  the scenes might not have the platform to always articulate if they're struggling or the leverage
• 35:51
  to articulate or or find ways to provide more value so certainly there is like a little bit of
• 35:57
  exploitation in the space but that said this is not an industry that is inherently based on
• 36:04
  exploitation at least I don't believe in the same way that so much of the original DNA of traditional
• 36:09
  media is predicating on finding cheap labor right there's like there's tons of nuance there but
• 36:17
  I'm optimistic that like we are in a place where we can build more infrastructure treat people
• 36:21
  better and be the backbone for creative media where we don't just create competitive great work
• 36:28
  but we also treat people as well as the entertainment industry of yesterday who is someone in the
• 36:34
  creator economy that deserves a shout out that is killing it right now. Doddford is the best
• 36:40
  editor in the history of certainly editing on our platform but I think that like there he will
• 36:46
  be written about in editing textbooks about the style that he is creating I think that it it
• 36:52
  should go on to influence what is happening across mediums that transcend YouTube his essay on
• 36:58
  Christopher Nolan is so incredibly ambitious the fact that he cut it in multiple timelines like
• 37:03
  it was a Nolan movie yeah how can you be this frickin smart and talented I just think Doddford
• 37:10
  sets the tone for what the best of we of what YouTube can be he's literally invented a genre on YouTube
• 37:17
  and he's younger than me so I'm like extremely jealous and I'd never be able to
• 37:23
  oh yeah don't meet your heroes I hear yeah I think he knows do you think plastic work
• 37:27
  do you think he jumps into traditional and direct and cuts a film or does something like that
• 37:31
  or is he sticking his land I'm producing like a feature for my buddy and I'm definitely I'm
• 37:40
  going to approach Danny and be like you need to cut a sequence for this so yeah right I hope so
• 37:44
  but I hope he does it in a way that is authentic the values of our industry I want to make sure
• 37:50
  that people have ownership and they're well-comped and I just I think that we love Hollywood without
• 37:57
  reading the stories of how bad it has been especially economically the creative people and so
• 38:03
  hopefully that relationship Danny goes in with a lot of leverage and he can make not just great work
• 38:09
  but also preserve wealth for himself and his family in him ways that talents in the past especially
• 38:17
  when they were in nascent industries maybe couldn't have you were very well spoken I must admit
• 38:22
  and it's interesting to hear your perspective on not only your YouTube side of things but also
• 38:27
  in the traditional media side of things because some of the stuff you just said is like really
• 38:30
  fascinating stuff unionization that's a whole other topic that I don't even know what that might
• 38:35
  look like for the creator economy me either and I don't know yet but I do think like the studio
• 38:40
  my goal with the studio it I do have like an existential goal for it it's like
• 38:43
  want people to look at it and see the workplace of the future like a workplace where people have
• 38:48
  flexibility where people are encouraged to think long-term where people have come rotary with
• 38:52
  their co-workers I feel like so much of modern living is not knowing what that's like and like not
• 38:58
  knowing what it's like to be in a workplace where you can make long-term plays take risks work
• 39:03
  with people who support you in that and I think like we are exceptionally successful and that
• 39:09
  doesn't enable that thinking we are exceptionally successful because we think like that and if I can
• 39:15
  showcase that type of culture and that type of work culture maybe you can have a little print
• 39:21
  for not just other creators but for other modern workplaces to have the same
• 39:25
  you're moving the needle forward in a good direction you said you had a big video you wanted
• 39:30
  to shout out is this the time for it all I'll say is subscribe to the studio channel and at the
• 39:35
  beginning of next year you will learn a lot about what it means to work for one of the world's
• 39:42
  biggest creators you're talking a very high level which I suspect is from just being
• 39:54
  extremely knowledgeable yourself but just immersing yourself in person with a bunch of other people
• 39:58
  who are just obsessed with the creator economy and that's very very cool and then also being
• 40:04
  spearheaded by someone who is arguably the greatest one of the greatest creators in the history
• 40:09
  of YouTube's entire platform so there must be a lot of learning going on I agree
• 40:13
  Mark has brought me if you're watching this yeah I love you and my job
• 40:20
  Mark has his busy right now because if he's not with you he's out saving New York cities out swinging
• 40:24
  from skyscraper is doing his thing I love it I love it all right Eric thank you very much
• 40:31
  for your time and for being on the show thank you guys appreciate you