Latest / Beheaded / The Catherine Wheel | Catherine of Alexandria

Transcript

The Catherine Wheel | Catherine of Alexandria · Beheaded

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_02: Hello and welcome to Beheaded.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome to season six, episode nine.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm Megan Moore.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm Elizabeth Black.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: Are you serious right now?
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I'm thinking.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: You're so immature.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to episode six-nine.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ha ha ha, Megan.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: You're cute.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: I am immature.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm almost 36.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, okay.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I had a weird epiphany today.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of ages.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm 35.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: Currently.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: Currently.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna be 36.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: At the very end of the year.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: End September.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: You're closer to the whatever.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: But when I when I turn 36, I'm actually entering my 37th year.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's correct.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like I've already done 35 years of living.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_02: For sure.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: And now when I'm 36, I would have completed all 35 years.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like in my brain, when it's like I hate when people have this argument.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like they're always like, oh, like when you turn two, you're entering your third year.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, yeah, because you're two.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because you don't have a zero birthday.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: But like when you turn one, you've completed one.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't that obvious?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: It is obvious, but when you think about it, that I'm basically 37.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even know how old I am.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: You haven't even turned 36 yet.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but I feel 37.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you were exactly your age, right?
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like you're you're 35 plus six months.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like 35 plus six months.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So then I'll when I turn 30, I don't know.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: In my brain, it's just weird.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's just time.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: When I think about the calendar old times and how it works.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's weird to me.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: I saw some stupid thing online like a few months ago where a girl was like, Isn't it weird that if you subtract, I think it was like, yeah, like you're the current year and your age, it's the year you were born.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, that's literally that's literally how time works.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, my um my old laptop, my old lady laptop is like, is it it's like fanning a lot.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: So if you hear that, it's spacy.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, sorry, it's like really loud right now.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um give it a rent.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's just stupidity.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: But the concept of age is a weird.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not high.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just very much a high thought.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: What else would you like to discuss making?
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I've had no gummies.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: I've had no no no, it's just my brain.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just the wine.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, never mind.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: I thought that was a really good.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: Last time we talked about the the shape of state.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just gonna preface this whole episode by saying Megan's been very stressed out with work and her new job, and she likes it, but she's just it's a lot of work.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a week.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: I feel really bad.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think this was like one of the first podcasting days, because it's a Saturday afternoon right now.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Where, well, like, actually, it's not even afternoon, it's like almost five.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but when I was like, can we just do this and like watch a movie?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, this is one of the first times I'm like, okay, let's like get through this episode.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: I just like I just want to sit on the couch and veg out and do nothing.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: I got here, she's like, okay, you ready to go?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, oh, well, not yet.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like, let's do it, let's get done.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_02: You can stay all night, right?
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: I unfortunately I can't spend the night tonight because I do have to run 14 miles in the morning.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't, I can't like, you know, get super drunk and stay over, but I can drink with you and watch a movie.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's alright.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_02: So I will stay late.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'll take what I can.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: I will stay late and I'll be with you.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: 14 miles?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: It is what it is.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is the shitty part of training.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: Because I feel like your first half of training is just like, oh, you run, you know, eight miles on a Saturday, like it's not that big of a deal.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's casual for me too.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: I always just run eight miles on a Saturday.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_02: But you know, it's like it's doable because it's like in your mind, you're like, okay, I run a little over an hour and I'm done.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_02: Versus once you get into the 14, 16, 18 runs, you're like, I'm just gonna be out there for hours.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: How long will 14 miles take you?
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I like I'd like to think I'm like a 10-minute mile.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, to be honest, with like stopping at lights and everything, my Strava data will be like, oh, it's like 11 minute miles or whatever.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_02: But I usually like round to 10 minute miles, which means uh 14 miles would take me just like about two hours and 20 minutes to two and a half hours.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but not like oh well, like wow, you're slow, just oh wow, that's a lot of running.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a long time.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Do are you one of those people when you get to the stoplight?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do you run in circles?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I used to be.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I laugh at those people.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: I used to like not run in circles, but at least like jog in place.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm still running, like this still counts.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: And now I'm like, no, like this is dumb.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: I just stop like a human.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then I'll then I go.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I will say, because we just had a bunch of East Coast friends visit, I learned that a lot of my East Coast friends are like hacking their Strava data because, well, this is what they do.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: Like, say if you run in New York City, uh-huh, you run from light to light like really fast.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And then as soon as you hit a light, you like stop your Strava.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it doesn't count the time you're just waiting there.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of our friends look like they're super freaking quick.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: You why do you do that?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm not up here.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: At least the weather's nice.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Springtime right now in Arizona.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: It is, and I know I've given if you're a longtime listener, you know, you know, I hate the spring.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: Which is so weird.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's not weird.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: It's like the shitty holidays, and like I'm always training, it just sucks, right?
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: But this year, I will say, I'm like enjoying springtime.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: I've had a lot of pool days.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we're trying to get out to the pool every weekend.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's been it's like 80 degrees right now.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's been lovely weather in Arizona and spring training's going on right now.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: You did that, right?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's fine.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: I did spring training with my company.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Baseball for those who baseball thing.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: Baseball thing.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: So I just, yeah, I feel like this is the first time in a long time.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I also think because like my previous job when you and I worked at our old company together, like I was in charge of all of the events and the like employee engagement.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone like comes out of their holes in spring, so we all want to do stuff.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that and like, you know, I'm just I'm the one in charge of all the holiday shit.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: So like I'm sick of it.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so burnt out on holiday stuff.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, screw it, I don't want to celebrate these things.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, they're so annoying.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: And now, because I haven't done that in a while, like I still do enjoy it now.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, oh my god, I can like put up some shamrocks for you know St.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Patty's Day and like feel good about it.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: I could share with everyone because our Panther last time was so weak.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: I should share my near-death experience that I almost had.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, yeah, Megan actually almost died.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: I actually almost died.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was actually the scariest thing ever.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: This would have just been the Elizabeth Black show, and I'm so sorry.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: What would you do if I died?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would continue the show.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't mean about the show.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like, would you like would you plan my funeral?
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'd help, yes.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think I would be chief, like, you know, overseer.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: What would I want?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know, I think you would trust me with the planning of your funeral.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you know, I would do a good job.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'd be chic.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um I wouldn't be I wouldn't break the bank.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'd be very respectful of the floor.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of black, a lot of black everywhere.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'd want Charlotte, my pirate portrait.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'd make it look exactly like this room that we're in right now.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: I love the vibe.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: I would do a lot of jewel tones.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Dark, moody.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: Dark and moody, but not like cheesy.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Nice like your notebook.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like my notebook, yes.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_02: This would be the vibe of your funeral.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Aesthetic I want.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: The other week, I'm going down a normal street, and I noticed that there's a car that is meandering, and I I use the word meandering because it was honestly just kind of like slowly moving about, going the wrong way down the street, and I passed it going so we're going the same direction, but he's on the other side of the street.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, what an idiot.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I pull up to a red light and I'm making a red left turn.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's two lanes, two left turn lanes, and I'm in the one inside.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in like the inside lane.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: The furthest left.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: The furthest left.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking at this car thinking, why hasn't he figured out he's going the wrong way and has now gone into the right lane?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm watching, and then he sits there.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then this guy floors it full speed from like zero to as fast as he could get, going the wrong way, and ends up directly behind me going full speed.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I am just preparing for impact.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this person is going to slam into me right now, and I'm gonna get pushed into the intersection and probably die.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's literally in the few seconds I had, that's what is going through my mind.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_02: Was it like slow motion?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: He swerves a little and slams into the car next to me, like really bad.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, it's right, it's on my driver's side, it's right next to me.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Did it he did that person push that car into the intersection, like you were nervous about?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bigger SUV.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: And they got pushed a little bit, but not all the way into the intersection.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: And luckily, everyone in the SUV got out fine.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like no one seemed hurt.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone was safe.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: I never saw the driver, though, that did all of this.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: The one that it was very intentional.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was either I can't.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or they're on drugs early.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: I still don't know what happened.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_00: Either they were on drugs early in the morning, maybe it was like a dementia situation, maybe it was intentional.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't, I to this day, I do not know what happened.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, it's lucky that it hit a giant SUV.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_02: It hit a giant SUV.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: Much damage versus for you in a tiny mini case.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I would convertible fucking screwed.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: I get a pull over.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not, I'm not kidding.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was on hold with 911.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was on hold for like two minutes with 911.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, some people are on hold with them.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then they did callbacks.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they evidently 911 does callbacks if they don't get to you.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's doesn't seem very safe if you're in a situation.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: I talked to another guy and he's like, that woman's on the phone with 911.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I hear sirens, like, it's great.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, okay, we have help.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there were so many people there.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: There was so and I asked a few, I was like, you saw what happened, right?
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, yeah, that person just plowed and like full speed, going the wrong direction.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, that's my crazy story.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, that you you called me to tell me the story, and I was so nervous on the phone.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I knew at that point you were.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was fine.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know, I was fine.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: But the whole buildup to the story, I was like, oh my god.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_00: But anyways, yeah.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: So what'd you do in this?
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm thankful.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm just I'm very thankful you're here.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thankful you're safe.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm thankful your car is thinking about my funeral.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how beautiful it's it would have been.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: That being said, I'm your girl when it comes funeral time.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm writing for you.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Likewise.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_02: I actually, I don't know.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I didn't have a near-death experience, but I also have just been thinking of like, if I did die suddenly, like, I wouldn't trust anyone to throw a funeral for me except for probably you, because I feel like your mom are your dad are.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, because I mean, I love my mom, I love my family, I love it.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: It wouldn't be the Elizabeth Black.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_02: They don't understand the aesthetic I would want, or the pictures I would want, or the story I'd want to be told, because they'd be hysterical.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: They would just be like, she was amazing.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: I would make sure everybody has black veils to like they'll be waiting at the entrance, and as a female or whoever, you can put on a black veil to be extra dramatic.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: It has to be very classy.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's gonna be classy but dramatic.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: People need to wear like pearls and black gloves and like there's gonna be the person standing off in the distance under the umbrella, just staring at that type of thing.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted the Hobbit would be playing.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: Lonely Mountain would be playing.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: I already know, I get it.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: Girl, I got you.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: You get to do this.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's see what we're doing.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_02: We we might need to individually write funeral plans and just put them in like secret envelopes to each other.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: No, it's not morbid.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's smart because again, like, not that I'll care because I'll be dead, but you know.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to be buried or cremated?
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I don't really care.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I don't really have problems.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna be mummified.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's pretty good.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a place in Florida I've I've mentioned this, they do it.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: So put that in your file.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Just now.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Give that to me.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, anyway, but yeah, so I trust you with my life and my death.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, we went like way over we had nothing, and then we had everything to talk about.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Stop apologizing.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do like death.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Not like.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's a bad word.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: We are very intrigued by death.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Intrigued by death.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: We are intrigued by death, we are dark souls, and you also have a dark soul because you're listening to a podcast called Beheaded.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: So welcome.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about beheadings, yeah?
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do that.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_02: Specifically, Catherine of Alexandria.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: Woohoo.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_02: This is taking place, and I'll let you take early life, but um, this is taking place 287 AD.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: So that's old.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: This is Roman Empire.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: This is uh a couple years after, you know, Jesus was on the earth.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Um, a couple years after we, as we mentioned this season, John the Baptist.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's several Roman old.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: Old wait, what do you mean several Roman Empire?
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, we mean this season.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this season we've had um John the Baptist.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, we had Mannius Aquilius.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: He was Roman Empire.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now we've got another one.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's my favorite topic.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: Usually you get a little too drunk in these episodes.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I do.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: But we're gonna have I'm good right now because it's still early.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You got me on a good day.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we're gonna have you take early life.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Megan's doing early life.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Catherine of Alexandria, either with a C or a K.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: What's your preference?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like C personally.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I like K, like Catherine Heigel.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you mean just in general?
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean with her.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: For her, I like a C.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: In general, I like a K.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: Catherine of Aragon.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do C or K?
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think I usually do K for her.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: Catherine Parr?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: C.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: Catherine Howard?
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: K.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um okay.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: Catherine of Alexandria.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: She was daughter of Sabinella and Conscience.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: He was the governor of Alexandria, which we are Alexandria is in Egypt.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: Right, like North Egypt.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: North Egypt.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: At this time, it is part of the Roman Empire.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And she was technically Greek.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, she was living in Roman Empire, but had Greek origins.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so a lot of sources say that she was a princess.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how you get to being a princess from being the daughter of a governor.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I know.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: I don't, I feel like that's inaccurate, but also we've kind of talked about this in like Roman times.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_02: There's different stations and titles people have.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: So, right, like you're not really, there's no king of uh the Roman Empire.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: There's emperors, there are Caesars, there are generals.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like saying she's a princess is just kind of an interchangeable term of like she was essentially noble and the daughter of someone very important.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's very equivalent to those who believe Esmeralda of Hunchbacco Notre Dame is a princess.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_00: What the princess did that come from?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Some say she's like the princess of the gypsies.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, that seems very What?
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: I've never heard this theory.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: No?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, never mind.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_02: I won't get into it.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_02: I love your brain right now, though.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: I just I don't know what's are we almost done?
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to watch a movie and drink.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what's gonna come out of your mouth, so you just keep rolling, honey.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Editing is for.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: As a child, Catherine was really smart.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: She was the Hermione Granger of the Greek Roman girls.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: She was of the Greco-Roman female.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: She was very studious, she loved reading, she was very smart.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: They would say she always quote unquote had her nose in a book.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think that's quite impressive and says a lot about her character as she gets older.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: But she didn't want to be naive, she didn't want to be living under a rock.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but she also had visions, which is interesting because we've talked about other women who society didn't approve of, who also had visions.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she had visions of Mary and Jesus coming to her as a child.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, at the time, this is a pagan society.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: They don't they're polytheistic.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So they believe in obviously some of the old Greek gods who are now essentially the Roman gods, but it is, you know, the whole like you have you have Zeus and you have and again.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: Athena.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna yeah, I'm gonna use them interchangeably, whether it's Greek or Roman.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: But essentially, yeah, you have like yeah, Athena and you have Hades was the villain.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, you have Poseidon, like I think I'm saying only Greek ones now.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_02: I'm only saying the one from Hercules.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: Which are the Greek versions.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: I follow.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but but yeah, so that's like that's the uh accepted religion of the time.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yes, the Christian uh Christian like Christianity was blossoming because obviously this is a few hundred years after the birth and death of Christ.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: But remember, like, Christ was executed, you know what I mean?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like they were on the very nights, yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: Like John the Baptist was executed.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like they didn't look at Christianity kindly in this time.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_02: That was seen as more quote unquote like pagan or like you know, that was seen as the the bad religion.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: But because of these visions that Catherine was having and that supposedly Jesus himself came to her, right?
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: She proclaimed herself as a Christian very young.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like very much the black sheep, very much the like the trendsetter, let's say.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: She she declares herself as a Christian, and as she's getting older, the persecutions are getting really hard on Christians.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, mind you, this is 300 years after Jesus was executed.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the emperor at the time, Maxentius, we can call him Max if we want Emperor Max here.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: But Max Max Max Max Sentius, Emperor Max, he hated Christians.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he was really, really cruel.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: He was torturing, executing anybody who came out as being a Christian.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, Catherine was like pretty brave as a young woman.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: She's a teenager.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: Uh like even saying woman is hard.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_00: She was 16 at the time.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe 16, maybe 17.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: She confronted Emperor Max and she didn't like how cruel he was being.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: She didn't like these persecutions.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: She was very openly a Christian, but he didn't yeah, he didn't imprison her.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't, he kind of allowed her to have this platform.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think, and we we saw someone else mention this.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: I almost I want to get your perspective, but I almost think he was entertained by it.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: I think so.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: I think one uh kind of point of view that we saw was because she was obviously the daughter of like a nobleman or a governor or someone, you know, and she was well um she's well educated and potentially very beautiful, maybe that was kind of a rumor.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: As a young woman, like I'm sure she wasn't ugly.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like all of that combined, it's like obviously he even granted her an audience, right?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like in this era, 300 AD, like you're not just gonna entertain any woman who wants to speak to you about something.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, her her father had political power, but still.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: But in the end, he wasn't threatened by her exactly per se.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't, he didn't see her as somebody who was going to really cause a bunch of turbulence.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: He gave her a platform to speak versus he could have just executed her like he was executing everybody else.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone else.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Knowing that she was a Christian.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_02: It seems to me like he was just like, okay, sweet girl, like what do you have to say?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, that's adorable, like funny, you know.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, now go off.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Go, go milk something.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, go, go, go and like continue your pagan studies, you know.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: You don't need to concern yourself with this.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but he gave he went a step farther.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: He then says, Okay, you want to debate this?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do a proper debate.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: He brings in 50 pagan philosophers, right?
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's one one teenage girl up against 50 other men.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Not quite fair.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: To prove her point of why Christianity is the way to go and not pagan beliefs.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, how intimidating is that as any person, anyone, right?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_02: Regardless of what the topic is, regardless of male, female, age, like education level, the fact that you are speaking to 50 of the most like kind of quote unquote brilliant minds about the specific matter, and they're like, we're all here to just essentially tell you you're stupid and prove you wrong.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Hand selected by the emperor.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like we were asked, you know, for him to essentially defend our pagan gods, um, just so she could essentially backtrack on her own beliefs.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_02: But guess what happened?
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: She dug her heels in and she did really freaking well.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: She won.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: She won the debate, which that's always a funny thing to me, is it's so subjective.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: How do you win the debate?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: But but she was she did such a great job of proving her point.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_00: She actually converted several of the philosophers in.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: They then admitted, like, I guess I'm Christian.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I want to follow Christianity as well.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: They were sentenced to death, sadly.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: Any of them for that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that declared uh loyalty to Christianity at that point were put to death pretty immediately.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't win.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but but the fact that she was even able to do that is mind-blowing to me.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: They said that she just composed such a well constructed argument and was so eloquent and steadfast that like everyone was like, wow, like maybe she has a point and this is how strongly she believes in it.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe because of that belief, like you know, maybe the Holy Spirit is speaking through her.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like it was that powerful.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, so great for her, not great for people that.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: Immediately converted and then were killed.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not right away, but on the side, be like, hey, I'm actually on your side.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, maybe don't tell anyone.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, I get it.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the fact of being a Christian, you should proudly proclaim it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Of course, of course.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so at that point, the emperor is fed up with her and her antics.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: So he does imprison her at this point.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and not only does he imprison her, but he proceeds to go through essentially 12 days of like extreme torture for her.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: So she's being tortured kind of day and night through the through the next couple of weeks.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it is said that the only food she got, and this is where we get a little, you know, creative here in the storytelling.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Bear with us honestly.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: Bear with us, but it is said the only food she received was from a dove who came and gave her little bits of food.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: A dove from heaven.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: From heaven that came and fed her.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: Christ also visited her?
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: Jesus Christ.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, doves are well trained.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Someone, maybe someone was behind that.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: And Jesus often visits us in our moments of, you know, when you're a little and delirious.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: You get visions, right?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, because she was so wounded from all of the torture, angels also came and tended to her wounds.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, again, similar to like our Joan of Arc episode.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, like these are things she's saying that she's seeing and believing, and that is what sustained her through all the torture for the 12 days that she was imprisoned.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um you say 12 days, I'm like, and the 12 days of torture.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: We should make our own, a dove came with a I don't know, it's just in my head.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: With some cheeses, with some cheese.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: On the second day of torture.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we'll we'll make up our.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: This is a comedic podcast.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Don't take us so seriously.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's fine.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: Um thankful.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Sorry.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: But during her imprisonment, there was there was some good things that were happening.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: So, yes, she was being tortured, but she also received a lot of visitors as well.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: And among the visitors were um some of the imperial guards.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: There was also uh Maxentius's wife.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: So his wife, whose name was Valeria Maximilia, came and visited her as well to see how she was holding up.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like she knew she was going through a lot.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: And she again composed herself so well and spoke so kind of highly of Christianity that his own wife, Maxentius' own wife, was converted to Christianity.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Oh the lore.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: So a lot of the folks that were coming to see her again, uh, of the of the people that visited about 200 were actually 200.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, were actually all converted to Christianity.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_02: So that's saying something.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's like Dang, girl had a good way with words.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely was a pretty influential.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: So everything that McSentius was trying to do, right?
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: He was trying to throw her in prison, teach her a lesson, torture her to make her essentially backtrack on her Christian beliefs.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: This is all doing the exact opposite, where people are coming to her, checking on her, being converted themselves, you know, and there's just no swaying Catherine.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: Catherine is just the only one kind of holding it together and really influencing people in a, I suppose you want to say positive way, but of course some of these people, their lives ended because of the new alignment with Christianity.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but uh when Maxentius saw that he wasn't able to sway her through the torture, through the imprisonment, he then decides it's a great idea to propose marriage to her.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you didn't like me before, maybe you'll like me now.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, read the room, Maxentius, right?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who's been torturing you for 12 days is probably not gonna be my first prospect for a husband, but a little bit of Stockholm syndrome, right?
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you if you do So is that because sorry, is that because he executed his wife?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I didn't follow, right?
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: We did read one thing online that said um because his wife uh converted to Christianity, she was executed.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: When we looked more into her life, it said she didn't die until several years after all of this took place.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't know if he was allowed to take multiple wives or if his current wife had died, but he thought it was okay to just propose to Catherine and say, all right, you know what?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_02: How about this?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: How about like you marry me, you kind of have everything your heart desires, you know, gold and riches and titles and blah blah blah.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, just give up this whole Christianity thing.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Shut up.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_02: Just shut up.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can marry me and just be quiet.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it doesn't sound like a great deal, but I can see how it may be enticing.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, maybe she thought about it for a second.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: No, but Catherine obviously refused, and not only did she refuse, but she said, I'm married to Christ.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: So again, take that as you will, whether that means because of her vision, she thinks there was actually a relationship with Jesus in that way, or it simply means like she's saving herself for Christ.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like she is so attached to the idea of Christ that she didn't want to have any suitors or any men in her life.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I I interpreted it.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's more like someone who goes into like a nunnery.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: They say, you know, they they remain a virgin because they are devoted to Christ.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's more symbolic, but there were some versions we were we were getting into when we were studying up on this.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna say how there it was a little weird, how there was a but actual betrothal between her and Jesus in these visions, but we're not gonna go down that.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: It got a I don't I don't know.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like that route.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, it just it doesn't sit well with me because she was yeah, like a 14-year-old girl at the time when when the visions were happening, we're happening, we're happening, and Jesus is like a 33-year-old man.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he's Jesus.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And he's Jesus.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, don't get me wrong, if you're gonna go big, like Jesus is is seems like a great suitor.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like he seems like a nice guy.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: My favorite version of Jesus is the son of God, Jesus, hot Jesus, that actor from like Surface of 2014.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's the Jesus I like to envision.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: But that's nice.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting I'm crossing weird lines.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're continuous.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we're just gonna preface it with you know, Megan's been overwhelmed.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're still really hungry right now.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: We'll eat after this.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: Don't worry, Megan.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: We'll wrap this up so you can get to eat food.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um, no, but uh yeah, so so if you look up any of this content on your own, just know that you might find some weird interpretations like that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I also say weird because it's more like children's programming videos.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's like when you're teaching kids in Sunday school about Catherine of of Alexandria, it's like they have these weird storylines of like, oh, and then Jesus came and betrothed her and put a ring on her finger, and she still had a ring the next morning after the vision, proving that it was real.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm just like, yeah, but she was like a tween, and it's just weird.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And like, let's just not send kids down that path.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: My personal opinion, Jesus be Jesus.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't need to be betrothed or marrying.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: So apologies.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_00: Apologies, it's not a good thing.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: We're just we're just the repeater.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: We're just the messengers here.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't come up with a shit.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_02: We're telling you what we learned today.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, anyway, but uh so obviously again, she says no, she refuses the marriage.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: So then Mixentius finally has had it with her, and he says, Okay, I'm condemning you to death.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: And not only am I just going to, you know, make it a quick execution, we're going to kill you on a spiked breaking wheel.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I didn't know this, but the breaking wheel is also referred to as the Catherine wheel because of this specific situation.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: And we've talked about the breaking wheel twice in our at least twice.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: At least twice in our.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: It may have come up a few times.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the ones that we were talking about before we started recording was our season four, episode nine episode called uh End of the Bloodline, which was about the Tavera affair.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: What was that in Prague or I don't know if no, it's Portugal.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Portugal.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the whole family.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_00: But the entire family were put executed breaking wheels.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_02: It was almost like one big mass execution, like very public.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_00: Started with the mom as a beheading and yeah, went down the line.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Very creepy.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: That was a crazy episode.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go back and listen to that.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of forgot about it.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: No, we should have a night where we just like hey, I will sleep over.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back and listen to ourselves.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just what season was that?
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: That was season four, episode four.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, it's so long.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm simply saying, like, it wouldn't be funny to kind of revisit snippets of episodes and see if we remember like all the stories or you know, the specific things going on.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, there's some people that you're like, remember that one?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, no, I don't remember.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: We go we go through a lot of people.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of people.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, after six seasons.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's a lot.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and the second time, again, there might have been more, but the notable times we talked about the breaking wheel was our episode Breaking on the Bayou.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Which was John.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Who comes up with these?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: You do.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: I'm glad it still makes you laugh, Megan.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_02: Oh man.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that was season five, episode seven.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Breaking wheel on the bayou.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, Megan.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Dilious.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: Normally the way that we come up with like our episodes is as I'm editing, I'll reach out to Elizabeth and be like, name time, and we play this like name game until eventually we get to the title of the episode.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of morphs into it.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: We're like breaking this, breaking that, breaking, and then it'll turn into breaking on the buy on the bayou, and then we just whatever.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's we both we both usually know when it's the one.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: When it's the one, I'll just be like, that's that's it right there.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, those were breaking wheel episodes.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that one was uh took place in the American South, uh, kind of between the French that were in the area and the Native Americans.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: But really good episode.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: So revisit those if you want to.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: That one I forgot about too.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh my god.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, um, so though those are how we introduced the breaking wheel in the past.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: One thing we didn't know until this episode was a little bit more about the breaking wheel in terms of like again to revisit the what they do, they put your body on what looks like a regular kind of wagon wheel.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like a giant wheel, yeah, like a six-foot diameter wheel.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: And they essentially either spin you around or just kind of take a hammer and like intentionally break all of your limbs.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: And this is something new that we learned for this specific episode.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_02: But they would actually take your broken limp limbs and kind of wrap them around the spokes of the wheel.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: Oh god.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_02: So instead of just like letting it be okay, your limbs are broken enough, yeah.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: They're not just doing that, but once you are all kind of flimsy because you have no bones, that's when they like essentially tie your limbs around the spokes and wrap them around.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just picturing Harry Potter in the Chamber of Secrets when he loses his bones.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: I know you were.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Don't have bones.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it yeah, yeah, but there's no bones left.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: The breaking of the wheel was probably the most excruciating death.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was also really taxing on the executioner, too.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: And the that book I've referenced a few times, but The Executioner of Prague, about the biography of one of the most well-known executioners.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, not biography, no, it is a biography.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Is it fictional?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Alright, whatever.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_00: Anyways, I think it's nonfiction.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: I think it is non-fiction, yeah.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: He um there's a lot about like how he would dread a breaking on the wheel because it was just so much labor that went into it.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because so, yeah, like Elizabeth said, they would either hit the person to break their bones.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know this either.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: The number of times that they were going to be hit was actually based on their crime, like predetermined.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: Predetermined.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it was like, oh, you I don't know, stole a piece of bread.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: Seems hard.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: I know, but to see like one leg broken.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: To the point, like, oh, you murdered 15 people, you get 20 wax that breaks your whole body.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: 20 wax.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: They also might drop them.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: So what I mean by that is this is gonna be hard to like visually explain.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: So either they're going to be laid out on the wheel where they're tied their hands and their legs on the spokes, kind of like in a starfish-shaped position, or they could be tied around the perimeter on the outside of the wheel.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: And they kind of crush them.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they're kind of like curved around it, and then they drop it multiple times with them being smacked on their face or something.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: None of it's good.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: But all predetermined, like you said, the number of number of number of wax.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then they were threaded.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes there were spikes on the on the wheel just to add additional pain and torture to the experience.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: Which is what the one that Catherine did have spikes on on her wheel.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, sometimes after the hitting or the dropping, they would either put them on fire, maybe disembowel them.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's different it it all depends on what the sentence was and how how long they want to draw this out.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: Which is really gross.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: And like the point of any execution, it is so it is very um, I guess, theatrical.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: Spectacle.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_02: And very much a spectacle.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's very much a sign of to the rest of the population, like, hey, don't do these things.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: So they want it to be as public as possible.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think the wheel, in a way, makes it uh more visible because you are kind of displayed out on this wheel where you can see whether where no matter where you're sitting, you can kind of see the front and the back and understand what's going on.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_00: They put them up pretty high.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: They basically like put them up like a flagpole at the end.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you could see the aftermath, whether they were woven through the spokes or set on fire, whatever ended up happening.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like similar to odd concepts.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like similar to getting like crucified, right?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like if you got crucified, you were nailed to a cross, and then they would leave you up there for a few days.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: Same thing with the wheel.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like maybe the wheel itself is kind of, you know, it's obviously the executioner has to kill you on it.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it's down at like his level, but after it is done, like Megan said, run you up the little flagpole.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Hoist you up so everyone can see.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and some of the longest known executions of breaking on the wheel could be three to four days.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's because they could potentially break your bones, do all these terrible things, but you don't die right away.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: They just kind of leave you with your entire body mangled for a few days until you die.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Crows could come get you, like animals could come peck out your eyes, or whatever.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: This is what's wild.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this seems archaic, right?
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is like a medieval torture device, and it was primarily used, it kind of hit its peak between like the 13 and 1400s, maybe 1500s.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was outlawed 1813.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's like so recent.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: The last time it was used was in Prussia in 1841, which let's not talk about why that's after when it was legally outlawed, but it was Prussia.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's pretty wild.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: So that is, I mean, of Arizona was like existing.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't a state, but it was a territory.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was like, yeah, I just think of what was happening in 1813.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: That is not, I mean, yeah, it's old, but it's not like medieval, it's not archaic, it's not.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm always shocked anytime we hear of any torture device and its last known use, whether it's like, yeah, like the 1970s.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like it's insane because in our minds you just equate it with a very specific time frame.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_02: And to hear it was used after that, you're like, man, are we just freaking animals?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Like, are humans just like animals?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's what we're learning.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's what you got on this on with this podcast.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but getting back to Catherine, so that's kind of the history of the wheel.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know that either, though, that they called it the Catherine wheel because of the situation we're gonna explain of what happened.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, okay, now we're gonna get into the whole like mystical element of it.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: But it was said the very first like moment she saw the wheel, she goes up to it and she touches it lightly, and the entire wheel shatters because of her holy presence.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: So probably didn't happen.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Divine.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you know, I don't know if there was divine intervention.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or it was a really weak wheel and she just leaned on it wrong and it collapsed.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: I I just doubt that narrative very much, but that was the story of that like she was such a pure, innocent, holy person that as soon as she went up to the wheel, she she touched it and it could and like what it's it like the words are always shattered.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's not like oh it broke, it was always shattered, like into pieces.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: I want to know what actually happened.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: I really probably wanted that.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: But I am curious.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: But they took it as a sign, but not a sign that she shouldn't die.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, just a sign that she shouldn't be tortured and die on the breaking wheel.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, let's um so maybe just like let's get over, let's let's just do this and get it done quick.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_02: So, like Megan tonight trying to, you know, get the episode done and just let's just do this when you sit on the couch and so she can get on the couch and drink her wine and watch a movie.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: They instead are just like, you know what, just behead her.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's over, just behead.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that was her new sentence was to be beheaded.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Just right there, they decided.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's that same strange children's version that we watched said that Emperor Max was the one who beheaded her.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: I cannot believe that.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: But when we say things like what do we believe, what we don't believe, there's even critics saying, Did Catherine of Alexandria even exist?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because what happened after her execution?
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, immediately after they said that there was no blood at all.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_00: She was beheaded with no blood.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it said that there was a like milk-like substance that kind of came out of her body.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: From the doves feeding for her, from the beautiful food the doves have provided her.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, that was also a storyline of like there was no blood because she's again this pure innocent You know, the telephone game.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_00: I get it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: Over only unicorn blood came out.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_00: This the story has changed.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but but after that, there was really no record of like a body either.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_02: So apparently uh in the sixth century, her like there was a monastery that was created in Egypt.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I think it's was near um where the the burning bush was supposed to be, like Moses's burning bush.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, um, and it's near um, and I might I'm gonna say it wrong, Mount Sinai.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_02: Sinai Mount Sinai.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: Sinai, thank you.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like Cedar Sinai, the hospital in Los Angeles.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're welcome.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: You know that.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_02: So Mount Sinai, um, there is now this like St.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Catherine's monastery that was established, which is I think it's modern-day Egypt.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's where they found her body, supposed which how did they know it was her body?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_00: We're not gonna be able to do that.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: They said they yeah, they said they found it like four centuries later.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: So again, the monastery was created, then they found the body.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: But apparently, all of this, which was once a tribute to the to Moses's like burning bush, is now a tribute to Catherine, apparently.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: Interesting.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't actually know all that.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's news to me.
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it says that people have actually made pilgrimages there annually.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: We should go see it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's go.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just book our flights now.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Jay keeps wanting to go to Israel, and I'm like, maybe not right now.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, maybe not right now.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's like a strong advisory to not go.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna say.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: And he's just like, there's always gonna be conflict.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, yeah, okay, but like right now, like this is war, maybe right now.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: I would like to say, I would like to see Mount Sinai one day, though.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: We will, you know, in a more not right now.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Not right now.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: One day, one day we'll have our chance.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um but but people still go to be healed by Catherine for our monastery.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and there's a huge legacy with Catherine of Alexandria.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_00: She is a saint.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: Her feast day is on November 25th.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, if you want to partake.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I would love to.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very hungry.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: I would love to do that.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's me.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and there's um a school named after her in Cambridge.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_00: There's multiple churches named after Saint Catherine, which is of Alexandria for this reason.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: She's typically her saint, there's hundreds of portraits of her as a saint.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Typically her associated with the spoke wheel with that she shattered.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: Like her symbol is the same as a big thing.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Her symbol is the it's not just the wheel, too, it's the wheel with the spikes on it.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which I think that's like extra.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: I like the detail.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, oh, that's nice.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: That's kind of a nice little detail on there.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, and when, and again, this is much later, but in the 1400s, when Joan of Arc is coming onto the scene, it was said that because again, Joan of Arc was known to have heard voices of different religious figures encouraging her to go on this path for France.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was said that one of the voices was actually Catherine of Alexandria.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love that.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that it all kind of intertwines together.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, Joan of Arc is another episode.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, another what what season is that?
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was early.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: Season two, episode four.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: Dang, we were ambitious.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: We were like, let's knock out the big ones first.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's okay.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: We might always revisit, you never know.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, yeah, but uh I think you were gonna mention too a few of the like because you know, she's the patron saint of certain things.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: And it I think it's funny because it is like she's the patron patron saint of unwed women.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_02: Because she couldn't marry Jesus or what?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, in time like it's very specific.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um what it was like Miller's, uh it was random.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: It was a lot of weird lists.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um in France, not so much right now, but in the past.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, France would, if a woman was unmarried between the ages of 25 to 30, they called her a Catherineite.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_00: Catherineite.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of cute.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because of course, this 17-year-old girl who was unwed, even though she proclaimed being engaged to Jesus, um, that is what she was.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: What if you were over 30 and unwed?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_00: Then you are just a hag.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_00: An old maid?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: An old maid.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, I'm an old maid.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm not.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know anything.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: You were a young maid.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_02: I was.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was a little maiden.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're you're quite the maiden.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um but you know, I don't subscribe to the ideology of an old maid, okay?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: None of us do.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Nope.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, anyways, yeah, it's like the the part that's hard is I I won't stuttering.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting my words together.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's okay.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: I love the idea of her bravery, and it just it does seem very bizarre and strange that they allow this woman to go that far to influence so many people and to convert so many people into Christians.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want to believe she's a real person.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think she is.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of most historians, they're like, yeah, there's just a lot of record embellishment.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's so much embellishment that they are there's also the theory maybe she wasn't real, but also because there was no mention of her until 300 years after her death.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: All of a sudden then people were talking about her, so then it was like, well, where did that come from?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I I like to envision her as like a very strong-willed, very smart woman who didn't back down, was not scared.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely was not scared.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_00: Was not scared and just took it and was like, do it, and I'll have a feast day.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'll become a martyr and have a feast day.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: You can all call yourselves Catherine attack.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: And now 2000 and minus years later, we're still talking about her.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's crazy.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_02: Definitely a great symbol.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: And again, I mean, like, I love how the episodes that we do are becoming connected like that.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: I love that she influenced Joan of Arc in that way.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so it's again, whether this is a crazy embellished story or not, I think it's um, I think it's a great like tribute to to again women in the past who weren't afraid to stand up for their beliefs.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think we need more of that, you know, especially in present society.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it's Women's History Month.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Go us.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're great.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: As a strong woman.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thank you.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: A martyr who's about to run 14 miles tomorrow.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Any final words?
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Beast, some may say.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I'd say.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, there's like a really good grace that one of my family members says, and I can never remember the exact wording, but it was like good food, good meat, good God, let's eat.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's exactly it.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is that it?
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, it is.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: It is.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I just read your mind.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: We did.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's no literally.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_02: This was unplanned.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: We did not set this up.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's exactly what I was gonna say.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's what I was gonna say.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's why.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: Because I knew you were thinking it.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: Not that, but let's do pasta and flatbread, yeah?
• 46:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we're gonna go.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Any final words?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_02: Good food, good meat, good God, let's eat.