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Normally Podcast: The Signal Group Text Drama · Normally

0:02
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, we are back on. Normally the show with
0:05
Speaker 1: normalish takes, but when the nuts gets weird. I am
0:08
Speaker 1: Mary Catherine, him and I am Carol Markowitz.
0:11
Speaker 2: Show us your Dolly partner. Sure, Mary Cath's right here.
0:14
Speaker 2: She like it.
0:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's under a blazers.
0:18
Speaker 2: Look. That's exactly what Dolly would have liked.
0:21
Speaker 1: Right, This is business casual. I think that's what they
0:24
Speaker 1: call it.
0:24
Speaker 2: I said, would have like, she's not with us, she
0:26
Speaker 2: is with us. I'm just saying if she had seen it, she.
0:28
Speaker 1: Would have liked it. Should I ever have the privilege
0:31
Speaker 1: of running into her, which my daughters always say that
0:33
Speaker 1: the only time I would faint is if I ran
0:35
Speaker 1: into Dolly Parton, which is probably true.
0:37
Speaker 3: Right.
0:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, she's it. She's like one of the
0:40
Speaker 2: few that I'd be really excited to meet.
0:42
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's a genuine star sighting. She shows
0:45
Speaker 1: up at Dollywood sometimes, so she'll just be around at
0:49
Speaker 1: the park or at the hotels. So someday I think,
0:51
Speaker 1: some day.
0:52
Speaker 2: You know, double family trip to Dollywood.
0:54
Speaker 1: Let's do it. There we go, let's do it. That's
0:56
Speaker 1: on the agenda, But also on the agenda today, a
1:00
Speaker 1: very large news story in the Atlantic this week broke
1:06
Speaker 1: the story about how editor in chief of The Atlantic,
1:10
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Goldberg, who you will remember probably as the guy
1:14
Speaker 1: who wrote the Suckers and Losers story about what Trump
1:17
Speaker 1: allegedly said about troops. I have never bought that story
1:20
Speaker 1: because it had no named sources. Yep, we can get
1:23
Speaker 1: to the credibility of him in the near future. But
1:27
Speaker 1: that guy wrote a story revealing that on March eleventh,
1:32
Speaker 1: he was added to a signal group chat signals an
1:36
Speaker 1: encrypted message service, a group chat with all the heavy
1:41
Speaker 1: hitters of the Trump administration national security world, including Vice
1:45
Speaker 1: President J. D Vance, Innesa, Mike Waltz, Marco Rubio, Secretary
1:50
Speaker 1: of State Telsea Gabbard, d and I. The list goes on.
1:53
Speaker 1: I believe Ratcliffe was on there too, had a CIA,
1:57
Speaker 1: and to various extents, these people in this chat started chatting,
2:01
Speaker 1: and he started paying attention, wondering why am I on
2:05
Speaker 1: this group chat? And he pays attention enough that he thinks, Hmm,
2:10
Speaker 1: I'm not sure this is a hoax, Like this may
2:12
Speaker 1: be real. So they do some investigating about this, and
2:16
Speaker 1: it turns out that the way he verifies that it
2:18
Speaker 1: is real is that there are details about the most
2:23
Speaker 1: recent military conditions against the Houties in Yemen. And he decides, Hey, well,
2:30
Speaker 1: I guess if this timing that I'm getting in this
2:32
Speaker 1: group chat is correct, then I can run with this
2:34
Speaker 1: scoop and I'm not being tricked. And it turns out
2:38
Speaker 1: then indeed the attacks happened as the chat said they would. Oh,
2:43
Speaker 1: Pete Hegseth, Secretary of Defense is there as well, and
2:46
Speaker 1: so he writes this story, and I think, okay, So
2:50
Speaker 1: he writes the story. We'll get into the how he
2:52
Speaker 1: handled that as we go forward. The timeline from there
2:55
Speaker 1: goes that Trump is asked about it, says he hasn't
2:58
Speaker 1: heard about this, doesn't know about it. On the first day,
3:00
Speaker 1: the various deputies are called into a already scheduled house
3:04
Speaker 1: hearing on intel issues.
3:06
Speaker 2: Well, they might must have been so mad about that.
3:09
Speaker 1: So mad. The next day they are all grilled about it.
3:14
Speaker 1: And now they've been talking on TV and such, and
3:17
Speaker 1: we will deal with who's taking responsibility, who's not, how
3:20
Speaker 1: this is playing out. But that's the timeline of this.
3:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
3:24
Speaker 1: So, by the way, the strikes went extremely well. Nothing
3:27
Speaker 1: was disrupted, partly because of the way Goldberg reported this story,
3:31
Speaker 1: So that's great.
3:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. So also I should note that that story broke
3:35
Speaker 2: shortly after we recorded Tuesday's episode, because I knew immediately
3:40
Speaker 2: people would be like on Tuesday, like, how could you
3:42
Speaker 2: guys not mention the SignAll story? Yeah, you just don't
3:44
Speaker 2: want to talk about it. Although I was quiet a
3:48
Speaker 2: little bit on the X platform because I like a
3:52
Speaker 2: lot of these stories.
3:53
Speaker 1: I wanted to see where it went.
3:54
Speaker 2: I wanted to see how it played out. And Pete
3:56
Speaker 2: Deucy already made the joke that I immediately thought was
4:00
Speaker 2: you know, immediately about it was well, they did promise
4:03
Speaker 2: to be the most transparent White House ever. Yeah, So
4:08
Speaker 2: there are several issues at hand, So starting with should
4:11
Speaker 2: the administration officials be communicating via signal at all? And
4:17
Speaker 2: there's a lot of talk about whether signal is secure.
4:20
Speaker 2: I can tell you definitively that it's secure. When you
4:23
Speaker 2: don't add someone who shouldn't be in the group chat,
4:26
Speaker 2: that makes it more secure. Whether they're allowed to do
4:30
Speaker 2: that or not is a question. I believe we have
4:34
Speaker 2: a clip to that effect.
4:36
Speaker 4: Yes.
4:36
Speaker 1: John Rotcliffe, head of the CIA, talked about this in
4:38
Speaker 1: front of the House yesterday.
4:39
Speaker 3: So that we're clear. One of the first things that
4:41
Speaker 3: happened when I was confirmed as CIA director was signal
4:45
Speaker 3: was loaded onto my computer at the CIA, as it
4:49
Speaker 3: is for most CIA officers. One of the things that
4:53
Speaker 3: I was briefed on very early, Senator was by the
4:56
Speaker 3: CIA records management folks about the use of signal as
5:01
Speaker 3: a permissible work use. It is that is a practice
5:05
Speaker 3: that preceded the current administration to the Biden ministry, so that.
5:10
Speaker 1: Is an important mitigating factor that One thing I do
5:15
Speaker 1: not like about any Trump news cycle is that everyone
5:17
Speaker 1: acts as if everything is unprecedented, right, when in fact
5:21
Speaker 1: you find out shortly after that it's not. Yeah, that
5:24
Speaker 1: does not mean I think the use of signal is
5:25
Speaker 1: wise just because the Biden administration did it, and that
5:28
Speaker 1: should be part of the discussion. And also it doesn't
5:32
Speaker 1: mitigate the fact that a giant mistake was made, right.
5:36
Speaker 2: I think that, Yeah, that is where a lot of
5:39
Speaker 2: these stories should start, even on the right. I think
5:43
Speaker 2: that the people who are saying or trying to say
5:46
Speaker 2: this is not a big deal, it is absolutely a
5:48
Speaker 2: big deal. I don't have a problem with them communicating
5:51
Speaker 2: on signal, although I don't know the ins and outs
5:55
Speaker 2: of signal deletes the conversations. I don't think that they're
5:58
Speaker 2: allowed to do that. I don't know you know the
6:00
Speaker 2: rules around that. But the actual communicating with each other
6:04
Speaker 2: on signal is not my problem with it. It's that
6:07
Speaker 2: I would not say anything in a group chat where
6:10
Speaker 2: I did not know every single phone number in that
6:13
Speaker 2: group chat, and let me tell you, I would check.
6:16
Speaker 2: So that is a huge issue to me.
6:18
Speaker 1: Well, and some allege, okay, there's dirty tricks at hand here.
6:22
Speaker 1: Somehow he got into the chat, but Mike Waltz added
6:25
Speaker 1: him to the chat, so he had the number. He
6:29
Speaker 1: is a very important guy, a very smart, a guy
6:32
Speaker 1: I like, by the way.
6:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the others. We'll get to this in a bit.
6:34
Speaker 2: But yeah, the liking people is a side.
6:38
Speaker 1: Issue, you know. So I think he's a smart guy
6:42
Speaker 1: who's been an intel in military circles for a long time.
6:45
Speaker 1: He should have known better than to do this. He
6:48
Speaker 1: should have known better than creating the group and not
6:51
Speaker 1: triple checking.
6:52
Speaker 2: It sounds like it was a staffer.
6:53
Speaker 1: But although he did say when Laura Ingram asked him
6:57
Speaker 1: on TV, you know, was it a staffer? And he's
7:00
Speaker 1: he said I'm not blaming this on a staffer. I
7:02
Speaker 1: am taking responsibility for this, but it does.
7:04
Speaker 2: Sound like it was a staffer. I'm just saying it
7:06
Speaker 2: wasn't actually Mike Waltz who warmed.
7:08
Speaker 1: The group regardless, like somehow someone had this contact the
7:11
Speaker 1: row will gun in their big mistake and something that
7:15
Speaker 1: any more adversarial person or country would have made much
7:20
Speaker 1: more hay with, could have done much more damage with,
7:24
Speaker 1: and that the head of the CIA and all these
7:26
Speaker 1: other important people should be on the lookout for. There
7:30
Speaker 1: are tons of people who want to take you, guys,
7:34
Speaker 1: and Jeffrey Goldberg was actually the least of your worries
7:37
Speaker 1: on this occasion.
7:38
Speaker 2: Turns out he handled it actually quite maturely. So you know, Yeah,
7:44
Speaker 2: they don't have much room here to say. I get
7:47
Speaker 2: that they're attacking the press and that's going to be
7:50
Speaker 2: the defensive posture of the Trump administration. I don't blame
7:53
Speaker 2: them for a lot of that, but in this particular case,
7:57
Speaker 2: I don't see that Jeffrey Goldberg misplayed this other than
8:02
Speaker 2: is he allowed to release this information. That's also going
8:05
Speaker 2: to be another story. Well, it's happening as we're recording
8:09
Speaker 2: this episode. The conversation has become whether these were war plans,
8:14
Speaker 2: and he released the chats so people can see whether
8:17
Speaker 2: or not they are war plans.
8:18
Speaker 1: And the thing is, I agree with Hegseth on the
8:21
Speaker 1: point that Goldberg has dealt in all sorts of hoaxes before.
8:25
Speaker 1: As I said, I have never bought the suckers and
8:27
Speaker 1: loser story because it's never been substantiated by anyone named.
8:31
Speaker 1: And I thought he was really playing fast and loose
8:33
Speaker 1: with that one. But here's the thing, this one is verifiable,
8:38
Speaker 1: and an NSA spokesperson said as much before they started
8:42
Speaker 1: attacking Goldberg as their defense of this, And so what
8:46
Speaker 1: you've done actually is, in this case, he gets this
8:48
Speaker 1: golden goose scoop that he was handed on a silver platter,
8:53
Speaker 1: and his credibility has gone up skyward as a result.
8:57
Speaker 1: The Trump administration then basically dared him to really he's
9:01
Speaker 1: the rest of the text because he had withheld some
9:04
Speaker 1: saying like this was so detailed that I don't feel
9:06
Speaker 1: comfortable having it out there. They allege, hey, Goldberg could
9:10
Speaker 1: be mischaracterizing this, and then the Atlantic is like, well,
9:14
Speaker 1: if you guys say it's not classified and everything's fine,
9:18
Speaker 1: then here it is. So now we have the more
9:20
Speaker 1: detailed texts, and they're quite detailed.
9:24
Speaker 2: Right, So I'm going to read two tweets saying that
9:28
Speaker 2: these texts are not a big deal. The first one
9:30
Speaker 2: is from white Mike Waltz. He posts no locations, no
9:34
Speaker 2: sources and methods, no war plans. Foreign partners had already
9:38
Speaker 2: been notified that strikes for imminent. Bottom line, President Trump
9:41
Speaker 2: is protecting America.
9:42
Speaker 1: And our interests.
9:43
Speaker 2: And then my friend David Reeboy, who works in the
9:46
Speaker 2: foreign policy space, tweets, Okay, so the Atlantic released what
9:50
Speaker 2: they call the war plans. They're depending on people not
9:52
Speaker 2: knowing or caring what this is, but to refer to
9:55
Speaker 2: it that way as a stretch. There's nothing specific here
9:57
Speaker 2: other than times at which events will occur. This kind
10:00
Speaker 2: could alert the enemy, but doesn't tell them anything about
10:02
Speaker 2: what's coming where, or how to prepare for it. Nothing burger.
10:06
Speaker 2: I have to say, from a normy perspective, this still
10:09
Speaker 2: seems like a something burger.
10:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the thing is it was the details came
10:15
Speaker 1: right before the strike, so it wasn't as if disrupting
10:18
Speaker 1: the stress would have been very difficult. Yes, what I'm
10:21
Speaker 1: concerned about is that if you think this is a
10:25
Speaker 1: nothing burger and you're working with eminent war plans on
10:29
Speaker 1: a regular basis, I think I can't remember who said it,
10:32
Speaker 1: but this is like the one termite you see, and
10:35
Speaker 1: like behind the scenes, they may there may be a
10:37
Speaker 1: bunch more issues here with how people are communicating. So look,
10:43
Speaker 1: it's clear that no head is going to roll. Although
10:45
Speaker 1: I think it could be a thing that you could
10:47
Speaker 1: tender a resignation over again, even though I like the
10:50
Speaker 1: people involved, where you could go, I really messed this up.
10:53
Speaker 1: This is embarrassing to the administration. It could have been dangerous,
10:56
Speaker 1: Thank goodness it wasn't. And then the president can say, no,
10:59
Speaker 1: I trust you, I want to keep you on.
11:01
Speaker 4: Yeah.
11:01
Speaker 1: There's another level of that, though, where you can say, hey,
11:04
Speaker 1: we need to actually brush up on our digital security protocols.
11:09
Speaker 1: You can even throw a dig in at the A.
11:10
Speaker 1: Biden administration and be like, we shouldn't use what we inherited.
11:14
Speaker 1: Clearly this is not a good way of doing things.
11:16
Speaker 1: So here are the ways that we are going to
11:18
Speaker 1: fix this moving forward, And here are the ways that
11:20
Speaker 1: I'm taking responsibility for it and maybe even taking a
11:23
Speaker 1: little ding on my record in my file that a
11:27
Speaker 1: normally lower level intel person would get right, because I
11:31
Speaker 1: don't think that they should be held accountable. But higher
11:33
Speaker 1: ups are not right.
11:35
Speaker 2: They should be the grown ups in the room and
11:38
Speaker 2: say this happened. It's clearly a giant, giant mistake. We're
11:43
Speaker 2: going to get to the bottom of how this happened.
11:45
Speaker 2: We learn, we move on. You know, the story would
11:49
Speaker 2: probably be over by now had they done that, and
11:51
Speaker 2: they didn't, So then there's the next thing about this
11:56
Speaker 2: is how everyone came off in the actual conversation. Steve
12:01
Speaker 2: Hexeth came off as very decisive and strong. You know,
12:05
Speaker 2: this is what we have to do.
12:06
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
12:08
Speaker 2: I like JD Vince quite a bit. I didn't love
12:12
Speaker 2: his comments in this chat, like when he said that
12:14
Speaker 2: only three percent of American trade runs through the Suez Canal.
12:19
Speaker 2: I looked it up. In twenty twenty four, the United
12:21
Speaker 2: States had a total trade value of goods and services
12:24
Speaker 2: estimated around five point four trillion in total. Three percent
12:28
Speaker 2: of that. I'm not going to do the math, guys,
12:30
Speaker 2: but it's still pretty high. And so I don't think
12:33
Speaker 2: we should just let you know the hutis attack our ships. Yes,
12:38
Speaker 2: Europe he's complete JD's completely right that Europe, who has
12:41
Speaker 2: forty percent of their trade through the Suez, should obviously
12:44
Speaker 2: be doing more. And we've over the last you know,
12:48
Speaker 2: sixty years or so, have just let Europe skate on
12:52
Speaker 2: handling all of their problems for them. And yes, I
12:55
Speaker 2: get the frustration with Europe, absolutely, but I just generally
13:00
Speaker 2: didn't like his posture in those texts.
13:03
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is the thing is when I'm talking about
13:04
Speaker 1: somebody getting punished, I'm arguing against interests because it would
13:07
Speaker 1: be someone I agree with, exactly as opposed to Datie Vance,
13:12
Speaker 1: who I don't agree with. I think, to me, what
13:15
Speaker 1: the conversation illustrated. Obviously there are different forces in this
13:18
Speaker 1: administration that are going to be arguing with each other.
13:20
Speaker 1: They seem to be mature about the way they're arguing
13:22
Speaker 1: with each other. Vance to me, is very much Podcast
13:28
Speaker 1: Vance in the chat Right Podcast Vance is probably just
13:31
Speaker 1: Vance right, and he's he feels very free to say
13:36
Speaker 1: these are the ways that I don't think this is
13:38
Speaker 1: a good idea. I am a little surprised not that
13:42
Speaker 1: he's committed to his form of certainly more isolationist theory.
13:46
Speaker 1: I'm a fan of I'm not surprised he's committed. I
13:49
Speaker 1: am a little surprised that something like trade lit lanes
13:54
Speaker 1: being open and free would not fall in American interest
13:58
Speaker 1: for it.
13:58
Speaker 2: Completely agree with because that's it.
14:00
Speaker 1: We've been hit, We've been targeted. I think Rubio said
14:03
Speaker 1: the other day one hundred plus times during the Biden administration,
14:07
Speaker 1: Tim now.
14:07
Speaker 2: We can't keep taking that.
14:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, So that that surprised me. I agree.
14:13
Speaker 2: I also was surprised that he took kind of a
14:15
Speaker 2: shot at President Trump. He said that Trump was sending
14:20
Speaker 2: mixed messages to Europe and he didn't, you know, he
14:22
Speaker 2: didn't want to continue that in case with this strike.
14:26
Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's funny that actually that's not
14:29
Speaker 2: a story at all, because I know it's like people
14:33
Speaker 2: are trying to get a scalp and they know they're
14:35
Speaker 2: not going to get Vance's, so they just are letting
14:38
Speaker 2: him kind of skate on those comments.
14:40
Speaker 1: Well, and to that point, do you think Vance is
14:42
Speaker 1: speaking out of hubris in that chat or is he
14:46
Speaker 1: speaking out of utter confidence that Trump just likes him
14:49
Speaker 1: and that, by the way, that's the bottom line, and
14:51
Speaker 1: all these guys Trump likes all of them.
14:53
Speaker 2: That's right.
14:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:54
Speaker 2: I also didn't like in the chat how they focused
14:57
Speaker 2: on how things look and how they to message this.
15:01
Speaker 2: And I get that. Look, my background's in pr I
15:04
Speaker 2: understand that messaging has to be tight. I understand how
15:06
Speaker 2: important it is for the American people to understand the missions.
15:10
Speaker 2: But you do the right thing for the country that
15:12
Speaker 2: you think is the right thing for the country, and
15:14
Speaker 2: you'd be ready to take the shots if you're wrong.
15:17
Speaker 2: The focus on how this is going to look, I
15:20
Speaker 2: didn't love that either.
15:22
Speaker 1: Yeah. The other thing is I think often Vance might
15:26
Speaker 1: be more on the side of the American public than
15:28
Speaker 1: I am when it comes to how much we're going
15:31
Speaker 1: to do intervention in other places. I'm not as hawkish
15:33
Speaker 1: as I used to be, for sure, but I am
15:36
Speaker 1: more hawkish than he is. I think in this case,
15:39
Speaker 1: the American people don't really have an issue with occasional
15:43
Speaker 1: bombing runs that very specifically take out very specific targets
15:48
Speaker 1: and don't cost us a lot of blood and treasure.
15:51
Speaker 2: Right, We're not doing boots on the ground here. We're
15:54
Speaker 2: trying to reopen a ceiling. So yeah, And of course,
15:59
Speaker 2: obviously people are using this to take shots at people
16:03
Speaker 2: that they dislike. Personally that's been right away. There was
16:07
Speaker 2: some internal strife about Waltz, who you know, again with
16:12
Speaker 2: the isolationists, he maybe's on the opposite side, although I
16:16
Speaker 2: think these terms don't really make sense for this conflict,
16:18
Speaker 2: because you can be an isolationist but still want to
16:22
Speaker 2: have trade with places around the world and need to
16:25
Speaker 2: have those trade lanes open. So Waltz was immediately a
16:28
Speaker 2: target of that isolationist right. Of course, the left is
16:32
Speaker 2: having a field day. They might even be possibly overshooting
16:35
Speaker 2: all of this, people like Congressman Eric Swalwell saying that
16:40
Speaker 2: Hegsath should resign. Swalwell had a full on relationship with
16:45
Speaker 2: a Chinese spy and remains in Congress, so maybe he
16:49
Speaker 2: does not have room to lecture anyone on accountability.
16:52
Speaker 1: Well, and I think people have definitely have a point
16:55
Speaker 1: when they say, oh, nobody was mad about Oh, I
16:57
Speaker 1: don't know the hoodie's actually hitting us all of these times, right,
17:01
Speaker 1: And I was like that, yes, people should have been
17:04
Speaker 1: more mad about that. Or they'll say Mark Milly was
17:07
Speaker 1: you know, giving back channel to the CCP saying like
17:09
Speaker 1: if the president gets out of hand, I'll I'll deal
17:12
Speaker 1: with it, right and saying nobody got mad about that,
17:15
Speaker 1: both fair criticisms about what people were not mad about.
17:20
Speaker 1: I reserve the right to be mad that this giant,
17:23
Speaker 1: boneheaded mistake was made about national security.
17:26
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so, And it's good and normal to criticize
17:30
Speaker 2: your own side, and normal is the name of the
17:33
Speaker 2: game here.
17:34
Speaker 1: He also ran on holding people accountable, and like he
17:39
Speaker 1: has a Trump has a strange relationship with that because
17:42
Speaker 1: he is the you're fired guy, and then he's also
17:45
Speaker 1: very loyal. Yeah, he doesn't want to fire them. So
17:49
Speaker 1: the last administration, you had a bunch of dust ups
17:51
Speaker 1: and a bunch of people who got rid of for
17:54
Speaker 1: their that's kind of really redneck for the reason that
17:58
Speaker 1: he didn't really trust or know any of the those
18:00
Speaker 1: people to begin with. This time, the people he chose
18:04
Speaker 1: he mostly likes and knows and trust.
18:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:06
Speaker 1: So, I but I think it's a bad contrast with Biden,
18:09
Speaker 1: or it's bad not to contrast with yourself with Biden
18:12
Speaker 1: in this case, by going like someone has to be
18:14
Speaker 1: punished for this.
18:15
Speaker 2: Yeah, and still I hope that they don't, that none
18:19
Speaker 2: of these people get fired.
18:20
Speaker 3: Right.
18:20
Speaker 2: It's this whole, this real balance thing where it's only
18:25
Speaker 2: March they've only been in office three months. I like
18:27
Speaker 2: this team. I want to see what they.
18:28
Speaker 1: Do, so and tell me. But tell me how you're
18:30
Speaker 1: going to clean it up.
18:31
Speaker 2: Yeah, tell tell me how you're going to fix it
18:32
Speaker 2: and never let this happen again. Yeah, I mean, check
18:35
Speaker 2: the numbers and the text.
18:36
Speaker 1: Guys.
18:37
Speaker 2: It's kind of an easy.
18:38
Speaker 1: One also, just to just to put it out there
18:41
Speaker 1: because all the conspiracy theories have become true in the
18:44
Speaker 1: last five years. Waltz is like, I don't know Goldberg,
18:47
Speaker 1: I don't know why I had his number. We're looking
18:49
Speaker 1: into that right now. I always picking competence over malice
18:55
Speaker 1: in these situations.
18:56
Speaker 2: We're same sure.
18:57
Speaker 1: However, in the past five years often the malice has
19:00
Speaker 1: been the thing that's competence. So just I'm just putting
19:03
Speaker 1: it out there that that's what he said. Now, if
19:06
Speaker 1: there's no basis in that, then that's irresponsible for him
19:08
Speaker 1: to be putting it out there. Goldberg at one point
19:11
Speaker 1: said they had met in passing, but he was surprised
19:14
Speaker 1: that he would be on his contact.
19:16
Speaker 2: List, right, I mean, I have a lot of contact
19:19
Speaker 2: of people I don't like. Like, it's not that's not
19:22
Speaker 2: a crazy thing to do in our world, like, actually,
19:25
Speaker 2: you have their numbers so that you specifically don't text
19:27
Speaker 2: with them, Like, but it just red flag next to me,
19:31
Speaker 2: you know, not to answer their calls.
19:33
Speaker 3: Come on.
19:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. The theory, by the way, the working theory, which
19:35
Speaker 1: I think is correct, is that the person that was
19:37
Speaker 1: meant to be on the chat was Jamison Greer, us
19:40
Speaker 1: trade representative, who would naturally have been on a chat
19:44
Speaker 1: about trade lanes and the need to go to military
19:48
Speaker 1: operations to protect me. Jamison must have been like, why
19:51
Speaker 1: is nobody calling me? One thing I do think is
19:56
Speaker 1: problematic about this that sort of takes it another step
19:58
Speaker 1: for the administration. Everything disappears in three days anyway. But
20:02
Speaker 1: people understand being on the wrong thread or yeah, texting
20:05
Speaker 1: the wrong thread. And yesterday on nationwide country music syndicated
20:11
Speaker 1: morning show, they were doing a segment about when have
20:13
Speaker 1: you texted the wrong person in the past? For sure?
20:16
Speaker 2: Look who among us? And you know there's been stories
20:19
Speaker 2: in the past where people tried to DM somebody and
20:22
Speaker 2: they ended up posting it on X like again, who
20:24
Speaker 2: among us? We've all done it. I would say that
20:27
Speaker 2: my two normy world reactions that I've heard are from
20:31
Speaker 2: two different kinds of people. One who are saying, oh
20:34
Speaker 2: my god, absolutely this has happened to me. I totally
20:36
Speaker 2: get it. And then from the people who are like,
20:38
Speaker 2: I check, you know, when it's a bridesmaid's trip, I
20:42
Speaker 2: check every single number to make sure we have the
20:44
Speaker 2: right people on it. And I don't want to send
20:46
Speaker 2: it to a stranger.
20:46
Speaker 1: And you know, yeah, I am. I have done this.
20:49
Speaker 1: And also if I were a high level intel person
20:52
Speaker 1: with imminent war plans, I would be better at it. Yeah,
20:55
Speaker 1: you take a class from the bachelorette party girl. That's right,
20:58
Speaker 1: that's right.
20:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll be right back on. Normally, there was a
21:05
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal piece about how women are not getting married,
21:09
Speaker 2: and of course these pieces run so often. I cover
21:12
Speaker 2: them a lot on my other show, Carol Markowitz Show,
21:16
Speaker 2: And actually I had it in my monologue yesterday about
21:18
Speaker 2: this Wall Street Journal piece. But basically, the numbers are
21:23
Speaker 2: just collapsing. People are neither partnered nor married. Share of
21:29
Speaker 2: women age eighteen to forty who are single that is
21:32
Speaker 2: neither married nor cohabitating was fifty one percent in twenty
21:36
Speaker 2: twenty three. That number was forty one percent in two thousand,
21:42
Speaker 2: So that number is just getting higher and higher, and
21:45
Speaker 2: it's obviously a giant problem.
21:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think we have a civilizational problem
21:53
Speaker 1: if people don't know how to pair off and create families.
21:57
Speaker 1: The data simply says over and over and over again
22:00
Speaker 1: that two parent families raising children are the best for
22:03
Speaker 1: people's their stability, for economics, for the economic well being
22:09
Speaker 1: of the household, for future earnings, for happiness, like all
22:13
Speaker 1: these things, everything again arguing against interest. I was a
22:16
Speaker 1: single mom for several years. I think I did a
22:19
Speaker 1: very good job at it. But I cannot be a
22:22
Speaker 1: mother and a father at the same time, and so
22:23
Speaker 1: creating these families should be a priority, not just for
22:28
Speaker 1: the future of the civilization, which is like imperative people
22:31
Speaker 1: used to get that, but also for people's happiness. We're
22:35
Speaker 1: having a connection crisis and people are unable to figure
22:39
Speaker 1: out how not to be lonely, and that's very concerning
22:43
Speaker 1: to me.
22:44
Speaker 2: So I completely agree, and the fact that people can't
22:48
Speaker 2: figure out how not to be lonely is top of
22:51
Speaker 2: my priority list of what the kind of stuff that
22:53
Speaker 2: I like to talk about and write about. Recently had
22:56
Speaker 2: a column in The New York Post about how friendship
22:58
Speaker 2: is just you know, those numbers have also plummeted. People
23:02
Speaker 2: just don't have friends anymore. The number of people who
23:05
Speaker 2: say they have zero friends has skyrocketed. So it's not marriage,
23:10
Speaker 2: and it's not just you know, having kids, it's the
23:14
Speaker 2: whole thing. They don't date, they don't get married, I mean,
23:17
Speaker 2: they don't have friends. All of this is an ongoing problem.
23:21
Speaker 2: I think a lot of these articles and a lot
23:24
Speaker 2: of the studies focused on the financial side of it.
23:26
Speaker 2: I just don't think that tells the whole story. I've
23:30
Speaker 2: never met a woman and I'm talking ever who's like
23:33
Speaker 2: I am so career orientated that I don't want to
23:35
Speaker 2: meet a man. Every career orientated woman I know wants
23:38
Speaker 2: to meet someone. And what I end up arguing in
23:41
Speaker 2: you know, in Carol Marko would show is that I
23:44
Speaker 2: think that when women don't meet a partner, then yes,
23:48
Speaker 2: they lean more into their career. So it wasn't the
23:50
Speaker 2: career that stopped them in the first place. It's that
23:53
Speaker 2: they didn't find anyone and their career was what they
23:56
Speaker 2: turned to. Yeah.
23:58
Speaker 1: I noticed a couple of things in this story. One, uh,
24:01
Speaker 1: the only woman quoted who is pursuing a promising relationship
24:06
Speaker 1: got into that relationship or says she's in a promising
24:09
Speaker 1: relationship got into that relationship via a setup from friends.
24:13
Speaker 1: I think. I don't think that the apps don't work
24:15
Speaker 1: for anyone. I have plenty of friends who got married
24:18
Speaker 1: from the apps. However, it is an argument for a
24:21
Speaker 1: return and encouraging the traditional ways of meeting in uh,
24:27
Speaker 1: you know, affinity groups of friends where you're going to
24:30
Speaker 1: an actual bar or bowling alley for a party and
24:32
Speaker 1: you meet somebody there, the gym, your friends, a church.
24:38
Speaker 1: These things are really very good.
24:41
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love if you go up. I love setting
24:45
Speaker 2: people up. I you know, if anybody wants to be
24:48
Speaker 2: set up, you let me know.
24:50
Speaker 4: Yeah.
24:50
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm any good at it, but
24:52
Speaker 1: I need to make sure I'm there for my friends
24:55
Speaker 1: in this way, because I do think that's I was
24:56
Speaker 1: set up with my husband by a wonderful neighbor who
24:59
Speaker 1: quote assessed both of us, and I think rightly said
25:03
Speaker 1: I think you can handle him, and I think you
25:06
Speaker 1: can handle her. Yeah, that was her big pitch. The
25:10
Speaker 1: other thing I noticed here is that you know, there's
25:13
Speaker 1: one woman in this story in particular, who's just letting
25:17
Speaker 1: politics take over your life. Yeah, and be everything and
25:23
Speaker 1: therefore prevent you or cause you to catastrophize and prevent
25:28
Speaker 1: you from living life is really unhealthy. And I'm just
25:31
Speaker 1: going to read a little bit of this. Rachel, a
25:34
Speaker 1: thirty three year old real estate agent and Savannah Georgia,
25:36
Speaker 1: said she broke up with her boyfriend with whom she
25:38
Speaker 1: shares a five year old son, over a year ago
25:40
Speaker 1: because she was tired of doing most of the childcare,
25:42
Speaker 1: cooking scheduling while are also earning almost double of her
25:45
Speaker 1: boyfriend's cellary. That's a whole other issue, right. She has
25:48
Speaker 1: yet to date anyone else, in part because she worries
25:50
Speaker 1: about living in a red state with a six week
25:53
Speaker 1: abortion band. I have a child that I can't leave
25:57
Speaker 1: behind to drive to Virginia if I had a privatecy scare,
26:00
Speaker 1: and I definitely can't afford another child as a single mom.
26:03
Speaker 1: She said, this is I'm going to borrow a phrase
26:05
Speaker 1: from bethany single for a reason, Like does it that
26:11
Speaker 1: story made me very sad?
26:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is depressing, and it's like there are ways
26:15
Speaker 2: to not get pregnant, I've heard.
26:18
Speaker 1: And she's an independent, smart lady.
26:22
Speaker 2: Right, We're going to take a short break and come
26:24
Speaker 2: right back with Normally, March madness is going on, and
26:30
Speaker 2: that's apparently a college basketball tournament and I'm joking. I
26:34
Speaker 2: actually it's on in the background of my life all
26:37
Speaker 2: the time.
26:37
Speaker 1: And by the way, a good place to meet men. Yes,
26:41
Speaker 1: March madness.
26:41
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, Ladies, get out there well. Saint John's in
26:45
Speaker 2: New York lost a close game to Arkansas in the
26:48
Speaker 2: second round, and actually I was rooting for Saint John's
26:52
Speaker 2: because my other's forty girlfriend, Kirsten Fleming told me to
26:55
Speaker 2: you and you and Kirston are my my main, my
26:58
Speaker 2: main sports girls. So Saint john lose sadly, and their
27:02
Speaker 2: star player R J. Lewis Junior, he was Big East
27:05
Speaker 2: Player of the Year, did not have a good game
27:08
Speaker 2: and was benched toward the end. The abuse that he
27:12
Speaker 2: got after the game was so bad that he deactivated
27:16
Speaker 2: his Instagram account. And it seems like the NCAA knew
27:20
Speaker 2: this kind of thing goes on because they ran this ad.
27:23
Speaker 1: A few days before the game.
27:25
Speaker 2: Let's roll the clip.
27:27
Speaker 4: There's losing, but then there's being the loser. Game time
27:31
Speaker 4: comes with enough pressure. Way too often people are betting
27:34
Speaker 4: on sports losing and taking it out of the athletes.
27:39
Speaker 4: Only a loser would harass college athletes after losing a bet,
27:43
Speaker 4: but it happens almost every day. Root for your team,
27:47
Speaker 4: get crazy when the buzzer sounds, but don't harass anyone
27:51
Speaker 4: because you lost the bet. It's time we draw the
27:53
Speaker 4: line and put an end to the abuse brought to
27:55
Speaker 4: you by the NCAA.
27:57
Speaker 2: The fact that they need to say that.
28:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is a combo of more frequent
28:04
Speaker 1: and common ubiquitous really sports betting plus social media, because
28:09
Speaker 1: what happens with social media is like, look, if people
28:11
Speaker 1: have been complaining about the quarterback for years, by the way,
28:14
Speaker 1: I know that's football, not basketball, the point guard for years, Yes,
28:19
Speaker 1: but you couldn't always funnel that complaining straight to the guy.
28:24
Speaker 1: You could him. You had to call a sports radio
28:27
Speaker 1: talk show and like maybe he'd hear it in passing
28:30
Speaker 1: right right, And so now you can just go to
28:33
Speaker 1: the source. And that is not a healthy outcome or impulse.
28:37
Speaker 1: It just don't do it.
28:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, people have lost their minds in general. Our friend
28:41
Speaker 2: Kat Timp she had this great line that like I've
28:44
Speaker 2: never been watching TV and said, I have to go
28:47
Speaker 2: find this actor or personal TV and tell them that
28:50
Speaker 2: they're ugly.
28:53
Speaker 1: It has never happened to me. I have never had
28:55
Speaker 1: that sensation.
28:56
Speaker 2: I've I need to find this person and tell them
28:58
Speaker 2: they suck.
28:59
Speaker 1: A sports fan and also a real softy. So like
29:02
Speaker 1: when even when the opposing kicker I need him to
29:05
Speaker 1: miss a kick, I'm saying football because I'm a big
29:07
Speaker 1: football fan. Yeah, I was a big basketball fan, but
29:09
Speaker 1: now that I have four children, there's too many basketball
29:12
Speaker 1: games to watch. Yeah, So even when I need the
29:15
Speaker 1: kicker to miss, I'm sad for him. Yeah he missed.
29:19
Speaker 1: And I go the opposite direction when it comes to
29:21
Speaker 1: sports and famous people is if I think you were good,
29:25
Speaker 1: that's when I'll reach out and say, hey, I really
29:27
Speaker 1: enjoyed your work. Like, let's just turn it around, guys,
29:32
Speaker 1: let's turn it around a nice Southern lady Mary, I
29:37
Speaker 1: will say, I think now that the nil stuff is happening,
29:40
Speaker 1: the name, image and likeness, and a lot of these
29:42
Speaker 1: guys are getting paid like pro sports stars and people
29:46
Speaker 1: are a lot more money is at stake here. Yeah,
29:49
Speaker 1: that's where some of the stakes are higher, and so
29:52
Speaker 1: people are going to get madder. That's part of what's
29:55
Speaker 1: coming along with this.
29:56
Speaker 2: Right, and I get that, but I still just think,
29:59
Speaker 2: like a culture, this is so insane to me, and
30:03
Speaker 2: the whole thing of like just because someone's famous or
30:06
Speaker 2: just because someone's rich, you get to like say the
30:08
Speaker 2: worst possible things to them.
30:10
Speaker 1: I hate it.
30:11
Speaker 2: I think there should be pressure to stop people from
30:14
Speaker 2: doing it. I look, if somebody comments on my post
30:18
Speaker 2: and I don't, like, you know, really something vicious, like,
30:21
Speaker 2: I will go find them, like, I will find them,
30:23
Speaker 2: I will tweet their name, like, I think we need
30:26
Speaker 2: to stop this kind of thing.
30:27
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure we've both gotten it before, and I
30:29
Speaker 1: will amplify when something's particularly bad to just say like,
30:33
Speaker 1: this is the kind of stuff we get. And I'm
30:36
Speaker 1: just like very low wrung famous, like it's not even
30:41
Speaker 1: though it's the nerdiest level of famous niche, right, people
30:47
Speaker 1: still will be like, oh, I'm super mad at her.
30:50
Speaker 1: It's like, okay, my middle.
30:52
Speaker 2: Son calls it mildly famous. You are mildly famous.
30:58
Speaker 1: My children only think it's cool that I have a
31:00
Speaker 1: Wikipedia entry for some reason. That really gets them.
31:02
Speaker 2: Yeah I don't have one, and I love.
31:04
Speaker 1: That mine is a really outdated picture. That's how you
31:08
Speaker 1: know I'm not in charge of it.
31:09
Speaker 2: So thanks for joining us on normally. Normally airs Tuesdays
31:13
Speaker 2: and Thursdays, and you can subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts.
31:16
Speaker 2: Get in touch with us at normallythepod at gmail dot com.
31:19
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening, and when things get weird, act normally