Latest / New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast / Developing Your Intuition with Emmy Vadnais

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Developing Your Intuition with Emmy Vadnais · New Thinking Allowed Audio Podcast

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  I don't think that I'm special in this
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  regard. I think that anybody who's
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  interested could really train and
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  develop this. I just happen to be a
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  person like yourself who's folded into
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  my life path with serving others and
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  career, if you will, but helping others.
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  Keep watching to learn more.
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  >> New Thinking Allowed is presented by the
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  California Institute for Human Science,
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  a fully accredited university offering
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  distant learning graduate degrees that
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  focus on mind, body, and spirit. The
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  topics that we cover here, we are
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  particularly excited to announce new
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  degrees emphasizing parapsychology
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  and the paranormal. Visit their website
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  at cihs.edu.
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  For early access to our videos and live
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  stream events, sign up for our free
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  weekly newsletter at
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  newthinkingallowed.org.
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  >> Book four in the New Thinking Allowed
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  Dialogue Series Charles T. Tart, 70
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  Years of Exploring Consciousness and
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  Parapsychology,
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  now available on Amazon.
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  >> [music]
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  >> Thinking Allowed
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  Conversations on the leading edge of
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  knowledge and discovery with
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  psychologist Jeffrey Mishlove.
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  >> [music]
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  >> Hello and welcome. I'm Emmy Vadnais,
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  co-host with Jeffrey Mishlove. Today is
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  unusual because I will be interviewed by
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  Deborah Lynne Katz, who is a guest host
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  on New Thinking Allowed and author of
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  You Are Psychic, The Art of Clairvoyant
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  Reading and Healing. Today we'll be
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  focusing on the topic of developing your
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  intuition based on my experiences as an
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  intuitive healer, coach, holistic health
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  practitioner, and occupational
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  therapist, and what I wrote about in my
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  book, Intuitive Development: How to
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  Trust Your Inner Knowing for Guidance
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  with Relationships, Health, and
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  Spirituality.
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  We hope you enjoy this conversation as
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  much as we do. Now, I'll switch over to
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  the internet video.
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  >> Hi, Amy.
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  How are you doing today?
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  >> I am fantastic, and I'm so happy to be
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  with you, Debra. Thank you for inviting
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  me to have this conversation today.
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  >> Yeah, I know we both interview so many
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  experts in this field, and they have so
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  much knowledge and wisdom, but then
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  they're not always the one that are
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  really in the trenches with clients
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  doing this work throughout the week
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  every week year after year
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  in the way that you and I are as
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  professional intuitives.
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  And so, I thought it would be great to
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  come together, and we could talk about
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  some of the different psychic abilities
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  and ways that intuition operates through
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  the senses, and we could compare notes
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  and experiences both
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  within our client work, but also what
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  we've experienced throughout our lives,
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  and also maybe how provide more
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  definitions or clarity with these
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  different terms that we use in our
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  intuitive work. And then, there's always
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  challenges,
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  the highs, the lows, the joys, the
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  sorrows of doing this work. I thought we
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  could talk about that, because I know
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  there's a lot of people that watch and
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  say like, "Hey, if I develop my
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  abilities more, practice more, maybe I
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  could move into the professional arena.
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  So, what is that like? And then my third
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  motivation for really wanting us to have
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  this conversation is to compare notes
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  with some mysterious phenomenon that has
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  been happening that I've been noticing
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  with clients that I can't always make
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  total sense of. So, wanted to see if
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  you're having some of these same
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  experiences with clients or having
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  people come to you with the same things.
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  And some of these have to do with
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  telepathy,
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  clairaudience, and possibly the
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  intersection between mental illness and
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  and unusual exceptional experiences.
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  So, I was thinking maybe we could start
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  by finding out from you what do you find
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  to be the one psychic ability that the
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  general population exhibits most often
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  or comes to you and says, "I have this
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  going on."
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  I I have a suspicion of what you might
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  say, but I want to find out from you.
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  >> I would say the general public
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  I'm going to start with the general
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  public and then maybe go to actually
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  people who take time and schedule
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  appointments with me.
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  The general public
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  often will say that they have an inner
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  knowing or a gut feeling
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  or that they receive some type of
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  information in a dream,
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  which I believe there's research that
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  shows that a lot of
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  times or one of the most frequent ways I
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  think this is from James Jim McLennan's
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  work that people receive information is
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  through dreams, but in your everyday
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  vernacular people going about their
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  daily activities, it's usually a feeling
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  that they have, like a gut feeling. Was
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  that what you were going to
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  think that I was going to say? I mean, I
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  have more I can add to that, but that's
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  probably would take the cake, I would
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  say.
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  >> Well, yeah, that that's a good one, and
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  I always find that interesting because
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  I'm like, are they really feeling it in
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  their gut? Like, I don't feel things
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  there. I feel things in other parts of
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  my body, unless I'm about to encounter a
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  stressful situation, then I'll feel it
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  there. But, what do you think when
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  people are using that term gut feeling?
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  Are they really feeling it in their gut,
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  or are they really talking about some
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  other kind of feeling?
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  >> I think some people really are feeling
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  it there. There's more research going
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  coming out now about how we actually
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  have So, we'll talk about the gut being
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  the second brain. Of course, there's the
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  heart.
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  And you're right, there's also a term
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  called interoception, which basically
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  covers the whole kitten caboodle of
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  all the different sensory experiences we
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  can have, in addition to what we
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  consider the five {quote} normal senses.
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  And so, that would also explain that we
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  can get tingling up our spine, or that
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  we can have a
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  cold or a warm feeling, or a flash of
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  some type of a bolt of lightning
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  feeling, and those those kinds of
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  experiences.
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  And also, just to further answer your
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  question,
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  I think that inner sight or clairvoyance
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  is probably the other one that's that's
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  very popular for people, in addition to
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  that knowing piece of
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  what's
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  come to be more of a popular term,
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  empathic, being able to sense other
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  people's feelings. And that can get
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  murky as far as
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  And this is where discernment is can be
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  really important is
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  discerning what is somebody's own
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  thoughts and feelings versus somebody
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  else's, and at the same time,
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  we it seems that it's quite likely we're
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  in a
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  collective consciousness situation. So,
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  you know, really we can blend with each
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  other and uh
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  and then it depends on as as far as how
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  much information is seemingly coming
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  through.
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  There's many factors as in my opinion as
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  to why that happens or doesn't happen.
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  >> Yes, and actually the empath or empathic
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  or clear sentient
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  abilities, those seem to be the ones
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  that people come to me the most about,
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  like whether new students or I also talk
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  about these things in in my book You Are
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  a Psychic. So, I think people will read
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  that and then share their experiences,
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  but I do find with all the psychic
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  abilities that they people say they
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  already have is that clear sentient
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  empathic sense. So, like if they're
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  if they're feeling fine and they're
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  standing next to someone who's really
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  tired, they may all of the sudden feel
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  tired. Or if they're feeling happy, but
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  they're about to encounter someone who's
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  angry, they might suddenly get this rush
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  of anger and not understand why they're
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  just suddenly exploding. And have you
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  found that like within your own life? Do
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  you have much of that going on?
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  >> I do and I that's why I and probably not
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  in like yourself, why I have taken
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  over 20
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  years, 25 years of my life to really
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  deeply
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  experientially
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  study, practice this. And of course,
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  then at a certain point, I wanted to
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  share it with others cuz I I found how
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  it helped in my life and wanted to
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  support others. So, I
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  began teaching about 20 years ago. And
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  yes, it was
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  I had some precognitive dreams about a
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  one of my brother's wives being
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  pregnant, and I knew the child, I knew
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  what they looked like, I knew their
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  personality,
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  their sex, and I was consistent three
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  out of three with those children.
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  And actually another brother just had a
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  child, and I also had and that's that's
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  not an uncommon experience I'd learned
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  from our dear friend Jeffrey Mishlove,
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  they're called announcing dreams, and
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  that it's often or usually the mother,
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  father, or parent, or maybe close family
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  members such as myself in the situation,
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  where the the soul will come to that
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  individual in a in a dream. And uh so,
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  when I met them, it was like I was just
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  seeing them again, like it wasn't the
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  first time seeing them. So, I had that
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  experience, and it was just
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  undoubtedly accurate for me. And
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  of course, there's near-death
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  experiences where
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  people will
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  touch, taste, go into varying levels of
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  depth into the afterlife or the
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  continuation of our consciousness, and
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  then come back and report about it. And
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  this what These were pre-birth
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  experiences, which is different. And and
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  so,
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  or they're maybe the same on a similar
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  continuum, right?
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  And so, that really got my attention,
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  and then I started having I think I just
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  really opened up like in hindsight. I
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  think I was going through
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  an opening experience, or maybe some
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  might call it some form of
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  a spiritually transformative experience,
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  and it seems to continue for me. It I
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  don't I don't think it's I don't know
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  that it's ever done for any of us, or
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  maybe at some point, but
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  it's continuing on, and so I was able to
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  walk into a room, and I could sense what
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  people were thinking, what they were how
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  they were feeling.
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  And quite frankly, it was overwhelming
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  for me.
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  And so, I wanted to learn how to not
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  only develop that, but also to
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  manage, for lack of better term,
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  um I don't love the word control, but
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  have it a little bit more under my
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  volition
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  of how I could
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  utilize it. Like, well, why did I have
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  those dreams that were spontaneous?
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  Well, there's a deep soul connection
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  with me and my nieces and nephew who
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  came through, and now my new niece who
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  was just born a few months ago.
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  And so
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  maybe people can have more of those
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  experiences, or maybe it's there to
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  connect us with recognizing that we're
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  more than we generally take ourselves to
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  be, which is I believe what it did in my
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  case, and has really opened up a
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  beautiful world to me, and has really
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  helped me once I've cultivated that more
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  with uh all sorts of practical ways in
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  my life as well.
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  >> Do you remember the first time where you
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  had a sense that you were feeling
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  something from someone else, and you got
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  hardcore confirmation about that? Like
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  registering in your own body, but it
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  wasn't yours, it was more theirs.
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  >> I imagine that it probably goes back to
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  childhood, and
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  for me to be cog- cognizant and you're
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  cognitively aware of it occurring, it
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  yeah, it was probably around that time.
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  But when I look back on my life, it's
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  been happening throughout my life, and
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  I think it probably goes back to
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  the bond with my parents, and being able
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  to sense
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  how they were feeling, and so forth. Of
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  course, there's body language and
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  people's facial expressions and all of
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  that, which can give us clues, which
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  which I don't know about you, but I
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  think is also can be very important and
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  relevant for getting information to make
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  decisions, to
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  experience, understand our world and how
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  we interact with it. So, I don't I think
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  that those are can also be helpful.
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  Yeah, so I would say it's probably been
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  with me, but something really did open
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  around that time and and actually at
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  that moment in my life I was
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  freshly out of college and in my early
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  20s and I think it was me, my soul
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  saying, "Hey,
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  or probably that maybe the invisible
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  spirits and helpers saying, "Hey, I
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  mean, there's this other world. Go
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  explore it." And I did and I have and I
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  continue to and I'm so grateful for it.
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  >> I would say that I had a lot of early
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  childhood experiences cuz I have a an
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  identical twin sister and so we were
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  constantly
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  just finishing each other's sentences
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  and it really got to the point where I
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  almost felt like I couldn't speak fast
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  enough because she was going to say
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  whatever I was about to say. And I
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  couldn't tell at that age was had she
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  thought of it first and then I thought
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  of it or vice versa. But then I got some
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  really concrete
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  evidence when I was probably in my early
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  20s. Like I had an experience where I
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  was walking down the street with a
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  boyfriend and we were having really nice
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  walk. Everything was fine and suddenly I
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  got these waves of anxiety moving
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  through my body and I somehow knew like
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  something I was about to encounter
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  something. Like I just knew it. And we
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  turned the block and sure enough, there
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  was a house on fire and the family who
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  lived there was all standing outside the
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  house watching it burn down, you know,
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  crying hysterically.
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  And so it was things like that like
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  where, you know, I'd call that a pretty
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  hardcore confirmation.
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  Where I was like, "Wow, I just felt this
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  anxiety." Or a lot of times like my
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  sister who does naturally have higher
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  anxiety than I do, I don't typically
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  experience my own anxiety, but right
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  before she would call, I would have that
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  wave of anxiety. And I And to the point
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  where I was like, "Oh, she's going to
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  call." And then sure enough she did. So,
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  after I started to develop my psychic
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  abilities even more, I went to a school
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  like in the 1990s to learn how to just
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  understand all of this.
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  One thing they didn't say was going to
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  happen which really started to was it
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  was like my whole body became this
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  sensing system. And I was a federal
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  probation officer at the time. And I
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  would be sitting in my office just
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  working on a report and suddenly like I
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  would feel this sensation in my heart.
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  It would be almost like
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  um I don't I don't know what what you'd
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  call it like kind of
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  I'd call it lit up, but there was just
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  like this pressure or sensation. And I
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  might like suddenly feel like really
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  angry. And then the next thing I knew a
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  really angry person would walk in. Or I
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  would feel
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  really sad and then I would turn the
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  corner and someone would be bawling in
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  the hallway that I was going to now have
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  to encounter. And even like when I drove
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  I was driving one day and I felt all
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  this static-y stuff above my head and I
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  was like, "Oh my god, what the heck is
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  that?" And it almost kind of felt like
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  surveillance. And so I was like, "What
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  is going on here?" And sure enough I got
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  stopped by the police. So, pretty much
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  like whenever I'm like either, you know,
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  on the police radar, I'll feel it on top
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  of my head. So, I I I've kind of been
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  obsessed with this topic ever since.
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  Because it just makes me think, if if
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  I'm having those experiences, but I
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  started to realize like this is a
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  psychic thing, what about all the people
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  out there who are experiencing other
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  people's body sensations and emotions,
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  but they think it's all them? Have you
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  What What do you think about that?
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  >> I completely agree with you, and just
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  was when you were speaking, and maybe
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  it's because our
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  seemingly separate consciousness
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  abilities our consciousnesses are
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  merging, I was just thinking about how
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  I think everybody is doing this all the
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  time, but they're just not maybe as
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  aware, or there's like maybe a continuum
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  or a spectrum of awareness.
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  And when you were talking about some of
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  your experiences, because I've
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  provided so much patient care and
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  individual client sessions for
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  decades now, that
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  that I often will feel the client, or
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  sometimes receive
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  messages or information before I even
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  have the session with them. And it's
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  something that I've learned to listen
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  to, because you're right, sometimes I
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  will feel like like extreme few times or
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  several times I felt extreme fatigue
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  before
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  meeting with a client, and then they
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  come in and they just tell me how tired
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  they are, and I'm and I'm thinking, oh.
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  I mean, it could be me, but it also, you
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  know, that's where that discernment
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  comes in.
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  Or could be a mix. But that really
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  helped me to have a real lived
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  experience of what's happening for them.
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  And yes, I think you're you're right,
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  that whole piece of
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  discerning what's mine and what is
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  somebody else's, and then also
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  the next step can be, what am I to do
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  with this information, if anything?
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  Which as practitioners, it can inform us
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  and help us and really, it doesn't have
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  to be
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  just somebody who works in these
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  psychic, intuitive,
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  spiritual, consciousness fields. It can
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  be
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  the florist. It can be
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  anybody, a business person,
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  even somebody who maybe isn't currently
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  working and they maybe to our
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  grandparent that that we can receive
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  this information that can inform us. And
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  I really think that it shows the
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  interconnection that we all have. And as
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  I go on in my life,
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  I feel that there's a lot of course
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  there's turmoil in the world, but
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  there's a lot of beauty and love that we
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  can all connect with and that this is
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  these are indications and sometimes it's
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  so subtle that
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  we overthink or strive too hard to
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  recognize the information is there. Just
• 20:10
  trust it. And that's that's the biggest
• 20:12
  piece I think that I've come for myself
• 20:15
  developing this or
• 20:17
  honing this or getting
• 20:19
  more refined with these abilities is to
• 20:22
  to trust it and and then more
• 20:24
  information or more awareness will come
• 20:27
  to us.
• 20:29
  >> Yeah, and something you said, it's like
• 20:31
  knowing yourself, knowing your baseline,
• 20:35
  and being very aware of it, then that
• 20:37
  makes it easier to tell when something's
• 20:40
  changed and you might be picking up on
• 20:42
  something else. If you're already tired
• 20:45
  and you encounter someone else who's
• 20:47
  tired, you're you may not even know
• 20:50
  that. But if you're feeling fine one
• 20:52
  moment and you're aware of that and now
• 20:54
  suddenly you're so exhausted, you could
• 20:56
  barely stand up and you're about to
• 20:59
  encounter someone. Or I I had that years
• 21:03
  ago when I was in a workshop. It was
• 21:06
  actually a workshop on crop circles at
• 21:09
  like the Conscious Life Expo and I was
• 21:12
  sitting there and I was feeling fine and
• 21:15
  suddenly I felt so exhausted I thought I
• 21:17
  was going to pass out and I looked next
• 21:21
  to me and there was a guy standing there
• 21:23
  and I was like, "Oh, that's weird. I
• 21:25
  wonder if this could be him." And
• 21:27
  everyone else was sitting down, but he
• 21:30
  was standing up. So, I was like, "You
• 21:32
  know, I'm just going to move across the
• 21:34
  room and um uh maybe I'll feel better."
• 21:37
  And I was fine for a while and then
• 21:39
  about 30 minutes later I got that same
• 21:42
  feeling again. So, I'm thinking to
• 21:44
  myself, "Oh, I must have been wrong.
• 21:45
  Like maybe there really is something
• 21:47
  wrong with me." But then I looked up and
• 21:50
  the guy was standing behind me, but like
• 21:53
  really close again, the same guy. So, um
• 21:56
  and I've had it too where I was supposed
• 21:58
  to meet with a client in this one
• 22:00
  instance. He had just we had just
• 22:04
  emailed each other like 10 minutes
• 22:06
  before and so I expected him to be on
• 22:08
  time, but he wasn't and when it he
• 22:12
  didn't show up and so I was like, "What
• 22:14
  what could have happened to him?" And
• 22:16
  that's when the tiredness hit me like
• 22:18
  the total exhaustion to the point where
• 22:20
  I really thought I was going to pass
• 22:22
  out.
• 22:23
  And then I was like, "Oh, I bet he fell
• 22:26
  asleep. Like that's why I'm feeling this
• 22:28
  way." And then sure enough he called a
• 22:31
  few minutes later and was like, "Sorry,
• 22:33
  I fell asleep." So, uh one thing though
• 22:36
  that I was wondering if you found this.
• 22:38
  Like do you find that when you even ask
• 22:41
  the question like what's going on with
• 22:43
  me? Like is this mine or someone else's?
• 22:46
  That that will kind of break the spell
• 22:49
  and it may be like where you don't feel
• 22:51
  it anymore. Like sometimes either just
• 22:53
  asking that question or discovering what
• 22:56
  the source is. Like now it's just over
• 22:59
  with.
• 23:00
  >> That was something that was taught to me
• 23:02
  by my spiritual intuitive teacher and I
• 23:04
  found it incredibly helpful because it
• 23:06
  gives me the opportunity to recognize
• 23:10
  essentially because all of us are living
• 23:12
  our days with certain needs, wants,
• 23:15
  desires.
• 23:17
  What am I going to have for breakfast?
• 23:19
  Am I going to take a bath or a shower?
• 23:21
  Am what am what am I going to
• 23:23
  What is my schedule in my day? And so
• 23:26
  we're
• 23:28
  I think
• 23:30
  making a lot of decisions in the day.
• 23:33
  Whether we take action on something or
• 23:34
  not.
• 23:35
  So that was taught to me and I and I now
• 23:37
  teach it as well to my students as an
• 23:40
  opportunity to get more clarity on why
• 23:44
  am I sensing this? Why am I feeling
• 23:47
  this?
• 23:48
  If if it is something that's getting
• 23:50
  your attention. If it is like oh I've
• 23:51
  had a full day and I'm tired, you know,
• 23:53
  that's that's quite normal and natural.
• 23:56
  But like in your experience if all of a
• 23:58
  sudden that happens or if you feel
• 24:00
  something that's maybe
• 24:02
  uncharacteristic for that your typical
• 24:05
  mood
• 24:07
  is that I think that by
• 24:10
  having a little inquiry we can get more
• 24:12
  information and decide what we want to
• 24:15
  do with that or not.
• 24:18
  Now
• 24:19
  that was part of a training that I was
• 24:21
  in and part of a training I provide and
• 24:23
  so
• 24:24
  when I was training and when I work with
• 24:27
  people who are developing this, we're
• 24:29
  also doing other practices such as
• 24:32
  meditation or quieting the mind. And
• 24:36
  it's possible that that might
• 24:39
  distract somebody by doing that, but for
• 24:41
  me
• 24:43
  I have found it helpful and the people
• 24:44
  I've trained have said that they found
• 24:45
  it helpful.
• 24:47
  And particularly because
• 24:49
  we can also
• 24:52
  in meditation
• 24:54
  be visited by
• 24:57
  different experiences and images or
• 25:01
  past loved ones or beings and again
• 25:03
  that's an opportunity for us to be in
• 25:05
  that world and navigate it. That's
• 25:08
  probably a great word is to navigate.
• 25:10
  What am I doing with these experiences?
• 25:12
  Why am I having them?
• 25:15
  Do I Do I just need to like change the
• 25:16
  channel and go do something else or is
• 25:18
  there something here that I need to pay
• 25:20
  attention to?
• 25:21
  >> Meditation is it's so much quietening
• 25:25
  all the noise that you can now pick up
• 25:28
  on the subtle signals that weren't there
• 25:30
  before and I think that that may be what
• 25:33
  happened with me because at the time
• 25:36
  this was really happening in a major
• 25:38
  way. I had started meditating. I had
• 25:43
  meditated since I was really young, but
• 25:45
  I had never found a practice that really
• 25:47
  worked for me until I found one that was
• 25:51
  very active like with visualizations and
• 25:53
  running energy and paying attention to
• 25:55
  energy running through your body and I
• 25:57
  was doing this meditation one to two
• 25:59
  hours a day every single day and and so
• 26:04
  yeah, I think that that
• 26:06
  it just makes you so much quieter in
• 26:09
  your mind and in your whole space then
• 26:12
  you can be sensitive to all of this
• 26:15
  stuff going on and it may be too that
• 26:17
  when you start to put your attention on
• 26:20
  your energy body, you know, I when I was
• 26:23
  growing up, you know, in school they're
• 26:25
  not talking about an energy body. I had
• 26:27
  no idea what that was, but when you even
• 26:30
  and I can't say that, you know, I I
• 26:33
  totally understand it all now except
• 26:35
  that there is something here, you know,
• 26:38
  I call like the the metaphysical. It's
• 26:42
  It's our physical bodies, but there's
• 26:43
  something else happening in our physical
• 26:45
  bodies and and that's the what we start
• 26:49
  to become aware of when we're having
• 26:52
  these
• 26:53
  experiences with other people.
• 26:56
  >> I think that energy is a really great
• 26:58
  way
• 27:00
  at least for me
• 27:02
  to understand what we're talking about.
• 27:04
  So, when I started developing or
• 27:06
  understanding these abilities more, I
• 27:08
  actually did a training in medical
• 27:10
  Qigong where I learned how to work with
• 27:13
  the
• 27:14
  the aura, the heaven-earth energy, the
• 27:17
  aura, the meridians, and also I then
• 27:21
  developed an understood an understanding
• 27:23
  of the chakras. The There's debate on
• 27:26
  how many chakras there are and
• 27:29
  typically there are considered to be
• 27:31
  seven main ones, but there's different
• 27:32
  systems that say 9, 11, and of course
• 27:34
  when you get into the meridians of
• 27:35
  acupuncture, there's many vortices all
• 27:39
  all around the the human within and
• 27:41
  around the human, what we consider the
• 27:43
  the body.
• 27:44
  Just going back to our levels of
• 27:47
  awareness that we can see that through
• 27:49
  the energy centers, the chakras, which
• 27:52
  is sometimes translated as spinning
• 27:55
  wheel of light, and that that can be an
• 27:57
  understanding of our own level of
• 28:00
  consciousness, our level of awareness
• 28:02
  from
• 28:03
  the first chakra of being in a physical
• 28:07
  what we perceive as a physical body all
• 28:09
  the way up to the seventh of the
• 28:11
  of the more spiritual and connected to
• 28:13
  the all or the oneness, and that there's
• 28:15
  a a continuum or a spectrum
• 28:18
  of awareness
• 28:21
  that has really informed me when I'm for
• 28:24
  my own self personally, working with my
• 28:25
  own energy and consciousness, and
• 28:28
  personal development and so forth, and
• 28:30
  also when I'm assisting others as to how
• 28:35
  much those energy centers are
• 28:37
  functioning well, how open or closed
• 28:40
  they might be, which is also one could
• 28:42
  also
• 28:43
  suggest that that's metaphoric, but it
• 28:45
  is a
• 28:47
  it is a way of of
• 28:51
  getting a sense of how
• 28:53
  much a person is literally in tune with
• 28:55
  themselves. And when I say in tune, I
• 28:57
  think about how the chakras also
• 28:59
  correlate to the musical scale.
• 29:02
  And so it's a a very beautiful system
• 29:06
  that can deepen our our understanding
• 29:08
  and awareness of what we're talking
• 29:09
  about.
• 29:11
  >> Can you talk more about that? That's so
• 29:13
  interesting that you correlate the
• 29:15
  chakras with the musical scale.
• 29:18
  >> When I was growing up in school, I was
• 29:21
  in choir and did theater and that and
• 29:24
  loved singing and dancing. And
• 29:27
  over the years of study, that was taught
• 29:30
  to me that the first chakra is basically
• 29:33
  related to
• 29:35
  I believe a C note and then it it goes
• 29:38
  up the scale to the seventh chakra. And
• 29:40
  so we can think of that in terms of
• 29:42
  frequency or vibration, which is how
• 29:45
  people talk about energy, which then it
• 29:48
  begs the question, what what really is
• 29:50
  energy? And also our states of
• 29:53
  consciousness can be correlated to those
• 29:56
  levels of frequency. Some have suggested
• 29:58
  that love is the highest frequency and
• 30:01
  that fear
• 30:02
  Some also say hate, but fear if you
• 30:04
  really look at hate, behind it is
• 30:06
  probably fear. Would be would be a
• 30:08
  lower. Although sometimes fear
• 30:12
  can protect us and serve a serve a
• 30:13
  purpose in our lives.
• 30:16
  >> That's so interesting. I have a good
• 30:18
  friend Gail Johnson who does a practice
• 30:20
  called chakra dance. And she'll have
• 30:24
  different music and
• 30:26
  that corresponds with each chakra. And
• 30:30
  the first chakra, the music always has a
• 30:32
  lot of drums to it and is
• 30:35
  a very feeling that really puts you in
• 30:37
  your body and you're kind of stomping
• 30:39
  around and you know, you just feel
• 30:41
  really heavy. And by the time you get up
• 30:43
  to the crown chakra, you're it's the
• 30:46
  music is all bells and
• 30:50
  chimes and things like that and it just
• 30:53
  seems so natural. You know, probably if
• 30:56
  you asked anyone even if they're not too
• 30:59
  familiar with all of this like, oh,
• 31:01
  should the first chakra be
• 31:04
  bells or drums or the seventh
• 31:07
  probably respond in the same way. So,
• 31:09
  there is this
• 31:10
  lifting up and then the upper chakras.
• 31:13
  Do Do you find that when you're doing
• 31:16
  readings that you do go to the upper
• 31:18
  chakras?
• 31:21
  >> Yeah, I'll be happy to answer that that
• 31:23
  question. I also just want to add that
• 31:25
  another way to look at the chakras is a
• 31:27
  spectrum of light with the first chakra
• 31:30
  being the color red and then moving up
• 31:33
  red, orange, yellow,
• 31:35
  green, [clears throat] blue, indigo,
• 31:36
  violet which really does correlate with
• 31:39
  us being beings of light which
• 31:43
  seems just quite probable. I've read in
• 31:45
  something that we have both times in us.
• 31:49
  If I'm doing a form of like energy
• 31:50
  healing or just intuitively checking in
• 31:52
  with a person I typically will assess
• 31:55
  how well their
• 31:57
  earth energy which is really the yin
• 32:00
  of the yin yang because I was taught
• 32:02
  this is a Daoist and and Qigong and this
• 32:05
  is also seems to be true in many other
• 32:07
  wisdom traditions and mystery girl
• 32:09
  traditions that we have we have the one
• 32:13
  and then it goes to the two and then we
• 32:15
  have the yin and the yang and the yin
• 32:17
  being the feminine principle which can
• 32:20
  be gender but really more about
• 32:22
  qualities of like night and inward and
• 32:25
  soft receptive and then yang of course
• 32:27
  being outward active action oriented
• 32:30
  male and so forth.
• 32:33
  And I'd like to assess how
• 32:35
  that's functioning for a person. So,
• 32:37
  when I did my Qigong training, part of
• 32:39
  how my intuitive confidence, if you
• 32:42
  will, grew
• 32:43
  is because we were taught how to assess
• 32:46
  the heaven earth, how to assess the
• 32:48
  energetic meridians, which are the same
• 32:50
  pathways of acupuncture,
• 32:53
  but we did not use needles, we did not
• 32:54
  use we did not use physical touch. It
• 32:56
  was all
• 32:58
  sensing with our hands, our our body,
• 33:00
  our being is an instrument, our mind
• 33:02
  consciousness, our our heads to hearts
• 33:05
  and and um
• 33:08
  hands, heads, hearts, minds, all that
• 33:09
  good stuff.
• 33:11
  And
• 33:13
  we would people would fill out an intake
• 33:15
  form and sometimes they would forget to
• 33:17
  put information on there and I would
• 33:19
  pick up on it and I would say, "Oh, I'm
• 33:20
  sensing this in the kidney meridian that
• 33:22
  relates to this emotion and
• 33:24
  she was talking about fear, about water
• 33:26
  balance and so forth. And then somebody
• 33:28
  might say, "Oh, yeah, actually I've I
• 33:30
  have a history of kidney stones." And
• 33:33
  And so, over time it was just uncanny
• 33:37
  and highly accurate how I was able to
• 33:40
  receive that information. Now, again, I
• 33:42
  don't think that I'm special in this
• 33:44
  regard. I think that anybody who's
• 33:46
  interested could really train and
• 33:48
  develop this. I just happen to be a
• 33:50
  person like yourself who's folded into
• 33:53
  my life path with serving others and
• 33:55
  career, if you will, but helping others.
• 33:58
  And so,
• 33:59
  so once I get a sense of how the heaven
• 34:01
  and earth is functioning, then I do move
• 34:03
  to the chakras typically. And then
• 34:06
  there's something called the
• 34:07
  constitution, which I learned from
• 34:09
  Qigong, which is also part of
• 34:11
  traditional Chinese medicine, that we're
• 34:13
  all born with certain, we can call it
• 34:15
  personality or temperament. And some
• 34:19
  people are just naturally going to be
• 34:21
  more of a go-getter in life and maybe
• 34:23
  somebody who can really rev people up
• 34:26
  and is the life of the party and some
• 34:27
  people are going to more quietly sit in
• 34:29
  the corner and they're just happy to sit
• 34:31
  and observe or maybe they'll skip that
• 34:33
  party and they'll meet you at the next,
• 34:35
  you know, maybe a couple parties down
• 34:36
  the road cuz they'd prefer just to to be
• 34:38
  at home.
• 34:40
  And then, of course, then I was trained
• 34:42
  also to help balance that. Then I moved
• 34:45
  to the the chakras and one little thing
• 34:48
  I want to share is that I I was trained
• 34:50
  how to do this all systematically. So, I
• 34:52
  would do it like, you know, the steps
• 34:53
  one through just metaphorically one
• 34:56
  through 10.
• 34:58
  And then over time I've learned to go to
• 35:02
  where the greatest need is with the
• 35:03
  person. Like obviously listening to what
• 35:05
  they put on their intake, what we talk
• 35:08
  about when we first have a conversation
• 35:10
  about what they're hoping to achieve.
• 35:13
  And
• 35:14
  and then I've learned to really listen
• 35:16
  and how we were talking earlier, like I
• 35:18
  listen for telepathic messages.
• 35:21
  I
• 35:22
  When I first started doing this, I would
• 35:24
  mostly get more of those
• 35:27
  you mentioned the word clair sentience,
• 35:28
  which is also I would say probably
• 35:29
  synonymous with interoception. I would
• 35:31
  get feelings like hot, cold. And then
• 35:33
  over time I would start
• 35:36
  feeling more of the emotional piece when
• 35:38
  I was working with the person and I
• 35:39
  could get more of that direct
• 35:41
  correlation. Then I started seeing
• 35:43
  images and so forth and so more of my
• 35:45
  senses came online. So, when I'm first
• 35:48
  starting to work with a person
• 35:51
  my question is where do I need to go?
• 35:54
  What do you need? Tell me what you need.
• 35:56
  So, then I might go right to their heart
• 35:59
  chakra. Maybe they just went through a
• 36:01
  hard breakup or maybe they lost a loved
• 36:03
  one and they're really going through a
• 36:04
  lot of grief. Or maybe they don't
• 36:07
  realize it but they have unresolved
• 36:08
  grief and trauma from when they were a
• 36:10
  child that they haven't faced or they've
• 36:11
  been suppressing or repressing.
• 36:14
  Um but I just want to mention that
• 36:16
  because or you could I can you know, one
• 36:18
  can do this systematically but over the
• 36:21
  years I've learned to be more I one
• 36:22
  could say intuitive about it. And uh and
• 36:25
  then yes, I would go ahead and check
• 36:27
  each of the chakras and then there's
• 36:29
  different ways of working with those
• 36:31
  chakras. And for me personally,
• 36:34
  sometimes a person can just rest and
• 36:36
  receive and I'll just do my work. And
• 36:39
  other times, which is
• 36:41
  I would say more often than not, I'll
• 36:42
  dialogue with the person. I'll get their
• 36:44
  permission to make sure that I can
• 36:46
  communicate with them verbally when I'm
• 36:48
  doing this
• 36:49
  and letting them know what I'm seeing
• 36:51
  because I've come to find that
• 36:53
  consciousness is very It's absolutely
• 36:56
  fundamental and paramount for a person's
• 36:58
  health and well-being. And
• 37:02
  and I I want to be able to
• 37:05
  have them be involved in the process.
• 37:07
  So, it isn't just me
• 37:09
  doing to them. Now, I know that some
• 37:11
  psychic intuitives will just share
• 37:13
  information, but when we're talking
• 37:14
  about the chakras,
• 37:17
  my training was to also help balance and
• 37:19
  align those as well.
• 37:21
  >> I started off with a focus with
• 37:23
  clairvoyance.
• 37:25
  Um because I went through a clairvoyant
• 37:27
  program and we learned how to use simple
• 37:30
  visuals to get started with a person.
• 37:32
  So, like we would use a flower where you
• 37:36
  just visualize the flower, drop the
• 37:38
  person's name in the flower, have them
• 37:40
  say their name and imagine their energy
• 37:42
  is going into it, and then the flower
• 37:45
  will start to change. It might grow. It
• 37:47
  might tree. A petal might fall off.
• 37:51
  And actually, I recently read that
• 37:53
  that Mary Sin Clair, who was the wife of
• 37:56
  Upton Sinclair, who wrote mental radio,
• 37:59
  she actually used a similar technique,
• 38:01
  which I didn't know about. That was like
• 38:03
  in the 1940s. But this the school I went
• 38:06
  to was originally founded by Louis
• 38:08
  Bostwick, who taught taught this. So, we
• 38:12
  would look at the flower and see how it
• 38:13
  was transforming.
• 38:15
  And then after a little bit, then scenes
• 38:18
  from that person's life would start to
• 38:20
  pop up. Or, you know, there it might be
• 38:23
  like cartoon or it might be more
• 38:25
  realistic, but then we also would
• 38:27
  visualize the person and their field
• 38:30
  around them and
• 38:32
  you know, what this is probably similar
• 38:35
  to you, like when you're looking at an
• 38:36
  aura, it's not that you're seeing it
• 38:39
  with your physical eyes most of the
• 38:41
  time, right? It's just kind of like
• 38:43
  you're using your imagination to say
• 38:46
  like, oh, like if I had saw the aura,
• 38:48
  what would it look like? Or maybe you're
• 38:50
  just kind of visualizing them and then
• 38:53
  you'll see, oh, it looks wider on the
• 38:56
  right and it looks kind of green on top
• 38:58
  or I can see this side, but I can't see
• 39:01
  this side and now I'm feeling their
• 39:04
  heart center and when I look at their
• 39:05
  heart chakra, I'm seeing either like a
• 39:08
  dark color or maybe even like like this
• 39:10
  happened recently with a client where
• 39:12
  one side of their heart looked really
• 39:15
  big and strong and the other side looked
• 39:17
  weak. So, it's like just getting those
• 39:19
  initial impressions all over the place
• 39:23
  and then when you hone in on it, other
• 39:26
  things start to happen, like more and
• 39:27
  more information comes up. And it was
• 39:30
  similar with what you're describing
• 39:32
  where my the school I attended would
• 39:35
  have this whole procedure that you
• 39:37
  always had to follow, a structure, but
• 39:40
  the more you just do it on your own, you
• 39:42
  just kind of go with whatever is coming
• 39:45
  up. And then there's always the question
• 39:47
  like at the start of a session, do I
• 39:50
  just want to not have the client say
• 39:52
  anything and just go in totally, like,
• 39:55
  let me just see what shows up? Or do I
• 39:57
  want to have a conversation with the
• 39:59
  client first and see what their
• 40:01
  questions interests are and I I'd say
• 40:04
  like half the time clients just want me
• 40:06
  to just go in and see what shows up and
• 40:08
  then later at some point I'll stop and
• 40:11
  say, okay, is this making sense to you?
• 40:13
  Do you want me to keep going like this
• 40:15
  or do you want to start to direct me?
• 40:18
  So, it sounds like pretty similar with
• 40:21
  with how you're working where sometimes
• 40:23
  you're a little more structured,
• 40:25
  sometimes you may start off not knowing
• 40:27
  much of anything with the client, and
• 40:29
  other times you're you may already have
• 40:32
  background on them. Would you say that's
• 40:35
  pretty similar?
• 40:37
  >> I just want to mention that when I'm
• 40:39
  when I'm doing my intuitive work, it's a
• 40:41
  I would say it's quite a meditative
• 40:43
  process, so I usually have my eyes
• 40:44
  closed, and I'm would imagine that might
• 40:47
  be the same for you.
• 40:49
  Yes, I would say that's quite similar. I
• 40:51
  typically do ask people to complete an
• 40:53
  intake just because then it helps me
• 40:56
  it's probably from my health care
• 40:57
  background and also just to get clear on
• 41:02
  so that I know that they are focused on
• 41:04
  what they want and that that helps me
• 41:06
  get clear. I have over the years
• 41:08
  there's a few times actually when I
• 41:10
  worked at the hospital, I was an
• 41:11
  integrated medicine practitioner at
• 41:13
  Abbott Northwestern Hospital here in
• 41:15
  Minneapolis for a couple years, and I
• 41:18
  worked inpatient and outpatient
• 41:19
  providing energy healing and guiding
• 41:22
  people in meditation, massage, and so
• 41:24
  forth. And I'm certified in reflexology
• 41:28
  and also a nationally board certified in
• 41:30
  massage and body work, and so I was
• 41:33
  providing reflexology there as well.
• 41:35
  This woman came in and she wanted me to
• 41:37
  without knowing anything about her
• 41:40
  health background, she wanted me to read
• 41:43
  her feet and also just get give any
• 41:46
  intuitive impressions I had for her. And
• 41:48
  I just said, "Well, just so you know,
• 41:50
  this isn't diagnosing." which of course
• 41:51
  I say all the time because I'm not a
• 41:53
  medical doctor.
• 41:55
  However, I can provide information that
• 41:57
  people can utilize or because I am
• 42:01
  a licensed occupational therapist, I
• 42:03
  have a pretty good sense of if somebody
• 42:05
  needs a referral or to make sure that
• 42:07
  their, you know, primary's involved in
• 42:09
  in all of that.
• 42:11
  Anyway, she was totally cool with it and
• 42:14
  it was highly accurate and and it
• 42:15
  usually is and that's why I'm doing this
• 42:17
  and I would imagine you are too. And and
• 42:20
  I say that only because I wouldn't
• 42:21
  continue doing this and I wouldn't
• 42:23
  continue trying to support people in
• 42:25
  these ways
• 42:27
  if it hadn't blown my mind and and if it
• 42:29
  didn't continue to blow my mind over and
• 42:31
  over and over again. I mean, it really
• 42:33
  is very profound and beautiful.
• 42:36
  And
• 42:37
  when I shared the information with her,
• 42:39
  she said, "Yes, that's accurate. Yes,
• 42:40
  that's accurate. Yes, that's accurate."
• 42:43
  There have been times where people
• 42:44
  haven't given me information. And
• 42:46
  sometimes people will say, "I'm not
• 42:47
  really sure what I need, but I but I'm
• 42:49
  guided or my intuition tells me that you
• 42:51
  can help me." And so then I will just
• 42:54
  follow from that and and see what comes
• 42:56
  up.
• 42:58
  >> Yeah.
• 42:59
  Well, and do you ever find that people
• 43:01
  come to you and they're really wanting
• 43:04
  to test you first before either they'll
• 43:08
  trust you, maybe the whole reason
• 43:10
  they're coming is to trust you or
• 43:12
  or to test you and that's it. They don't
• 43:15
  really want to know that much about
• 43:16
  themselves or that they want to have
• 43:21
  proof first before they'll open up
• 43:24
  enough so you could then look at the
• 43:25
  rest of them. Have you encountered that
• 43:28
  very much?
• 43:30
  >> I haven't encountered it a lot and
• 43:31
  here's why I think because I have a
• 43:33
  pretty
• 43:36
  clear mission that I want to support
• 43:39
  people who really want to be helped and
• 43:41
  that there's
• 43:44
  for their own
• 43:46
  personal soul development, heart
• 43:48
  opening.
• 43:50
  The more I go on in life, I really think
• 43:51
  that more and more it seems to show it
• 43:54
  to me that
• 43:56
  growing and expanding in love and
• 43:58
  compassion, I think is
• 44:02
  quite possibly the most important reason
• 44:04
  we're all here.
• 44:06
  And so
• 44:07
  that's a big part of my mission is
• 44:09
  helping people to improve their lives,
• 44:13
  however that is, but also to have expand
• 44:17
  in their own hearts. Not only their
• 44:19
  minds and consciousness, but I think
• 44:20
  that the heart being involved with that
• 44:23
  is is really important. So actually I
• 44:25
  had somebody just in the past year who I
• 44:28
  could tell they wanted to test me. I had
• 44:30
  a sense that was what they were doing
• 44:31
  and I was fine with it. I'm like, all
• 44:32
  right, I'm up for it. And then also
• 44:34
  quite frankly if I'm not a right match
• 44:36
  for somebody and the information isn't
• 44:38
  going to come through, I'll just say,
• 44:40
  which hasn't happened, but if it does
• 44:41
  happen, then I will
• 44:43
  say, you know
• 44:46
  we don't need to have any exchange of
• 44:47
  energy with money and there might be
• 44:50
  somebody better who can serve you, but I
• 44:51
  haven't had that happen.
• 44:53
  And this person didn't want to really
• 44:56
  tell me anything about what was going
• 44:58
  on. Didn't tell me anything. And I was
• 45:00
  able to share that they were having
• 45:02
  conflict with a family member and that
• 45:04
  it involved another person
• 45:07
  and I was able to provide information
• 45:09
  that assisted
• 45:11
  this person who came to see me on how to
• 45:15
  interact with their loved one in a way
• 45:18
  that was
• 45:19
  caring, kind, compassionate
• 45:23
  and we you know it was more detail to
• 45:24
  that and so that they could
• 45:27
  have that
• 45:28
  dynamic in the relationship shift so
• 45:31
  that the other person involved
• 45:33
  things would kind of shake out so that
• 45:35
  their relationship could everybody's
• 45:36
  relationships could improve. And they
• 45:39
  didn't tell me anything and I and I was
• 45:40
  able to pick that up and then the person
• 45:43
  told me within I think a month how they
• 45:46
  told me that there was accurate during
• 45:48
  the session, but within a month they
• 45:49
  said how they
• 45:51
  it felt right for them to take the
• 45:52
  advice, which I always tell people, you
• 45:54
  know, use your intuition on what I share
• 45:56
  with you. Use your own discernment and
• 45:58
  if it feels right. And she went ahead
• 46:01
  and did it and she said that that
• 46:02
  relationship with that family member had
• 46:04
  completely changed
• 46:06
  to the point where they were
• 46:09
  they were just much closer, and they
• 46:11
  were both more happy, loving, and kind
• 46:13
  with each other. And that's really what
• 46:14
  she wanted. And I'm sure for you, too,
• 46:17
  it's the it's a whole leap of faith, and
• 46:18
  I I learned many years ago
• 46:21
  my teacher would say, "Trust what you're
• 46:23
  getting. Don't doubt it. You know, doubt
• 46:25
  will block what you're receiving."
• 46:28
  And so, I really learned to just go with
• 46:30
  the information I'm receiving and trust
• 46:32
  it. And
• 46:34
  beautiful things usually occur from
• 46:37
  there.
• 46:39
  >> Do you find that when you're looking at
• 46:41
  energy, even if in that moment you're
• 46:44
  not, say, consciously, I'm going to heal
• 46:48
  this right now. Like, you're not trying
• 46:50
  to transform it or do anything right at
• 46:52
  that moment, but just while you're
• 46:55
  looking at, say, their aura or their
• 46:57
  chakras, that sometimes it'll just start
• 47:00
  to move as you're talking. And so, it
• 47:03
  can't help but be a healing when you get
• 47:06
  into actually looking at it for them.
• 47:10
  >> Yes, thank you for bringing that up. I
• 47:12
  think that that speaks to the
• 47:17
  I believe that science has shown this to
• 47:19
  be true, that when something is observed
• 47:22
  it
• 47:23
  it can change. It'll change. And so,
• 47:26
  I've noticed that with energy healing
• 47:29
  that
• 47:30
  once I actually even start assessing
• 47:32
  what's happening for an individual, that
• 47:36
  the frequency starts to shift. And I
• 47:37
  think that that's also part of the
• 47:40
  intention of the person who's coming to
• 47:42
  see me, and also my intention to assist
• 47:45
  them to the best of my capabilities.
• 47:47
  Sometimes I'm actually assessing and
• 47:49
  providing
• 47:50
  that healing or transformation
• 47:52
  simultaneously. It doesn't You cuz it
• 47:54
  When I was doing my training, it was
• 47:55
  like, "Well, you assess first, and then
• 47:56
  you go back, and and provide the
• 47:58
  healing. And so, you're I you're exactly
• 48:00
  right. That's very much happened with me
• 48:01
  as well.
• 48:03
  >> That was how we were trained, too. Like,
• 48:04
  do the healing later, but then I started
• 48:07
  to be like, wait a second. I know I just
• 48:09
  said like this was here, but now this is
• 48:11
  already changed. And then the person
• 48:14
  would be like, yeah, as you were sitting
• 48:15
  there, like I felt this pain like build,
• 48:18
  and then it seemed to like release out
• 48:20
  of my ear or down out of my feet. And um
• 48:24
  and that was also how I became aware,
• 48:26
  like this isn't just me making this up.
• 48:30
  Like, I would
• 48:31
  I would be looking at their heart
• 48:33
  chakra. And in some cases, I would be
• 48:35
  doing some healing, like if something
• 48:37
  looked like, oh, there's it looks like a
• 48:39
  knife in their, you know, energy with
• 48:41
  that's just like really causing them
• 48:43
  problems. And if I did start to work on
• 48:46
  it without telling them, like they would
• 48:49
  like one time this woman was like, oh my
• 48:51
  god, I don't know what you're doing, but
• 48:53
  it's like I can feel hands in my throat.
• 48:55
  And that's what I was visualizing, like
• 48:57
  my hands pulling stuff
• 49:00
  out of her throat. And so, it was
• 49:02
  confirmation like that that really
• 49:04
  helped. But,
• 49:06
  back to the topic of that you could just
• 49:09
  be looking at it, and there's
• 49:11
  transformation.
• 49:12
  I've started to notice a pattern that
• 49:16
  when the energy seems to move, like it
• 49:18
  changes really fast, that seems to
• 49:21
  correlate with how well-versed the
• 49:25
  person is in healing themselves. So,
• 49:29
  when I see that happening really fast,
• 49:31
  when I'm done, I'll say to the person,
• 49:33
  have you been involved in energy healing
• 49:35
  or something? And it almost never fails
• 49:39
  that they say yes. So, it's like energy
• 49:42
  healers already know how to move energy
• 49:45
  out faster than the average person. It's
• 49:48
  just like all of this is just kind of a
• 49:52
  familiarity.
• 49:54
  But yeah, you know, the
• 49:57
  we're also talking about like people
• 50:00
  trying to play test the psychic. I used
• 50:02
  to get that a lot more when I first
• 50:04
  started out and didn't charge people and
• 50:07
  I was working out of a bookstore in
• 50:09
  Sedona, Arizona and a lot of tourists
• 50:12
  would come in there and sometimes
• 50:15
  friends would come in and one friend
• 50:17
  would be, you know, really into this
• 50:19
  stuff and really wanting help in their
• 50:21
  life and then another one would just be
• 50:23
  like, okay, I'll try this, but they
• 50:25
  didn't really want to be looked at and I
• 50:28
  would get that a lot more and now that
• 50:32
  my prices are up, I don't have that so
• 50:34
  much. But
• 50:36
  you know, I have found that sometimes
• 50:39
  that challenge helps. Like I had one
• 50:42
  woman who said to me,
• 50:46
  "Tell me what my boyfriend does for a
• 50:48
  living." And at first I was confused. I
• 50:50
  was like, wait, you don't know what your
• 50:52
  boyfriend does for a living? And then I
• 50:53
  realized like, oh, she wants me to see
• 50:56
  it and I almost said to her,
• 51:00
  "I'm I'm not feeling like playing test
• 51:02
  the psychic." But I was like, you know
• 51:03
  what? This is a way for me to see if I
• 51:06
  can do it and I got really nervous,
• 51:09
  but I just sat there, I cleared my mind,
• 51:12
  I told her this might take me a little
• 51:14
  while and you know, this is cutting into
• 51:16
  things we could look at that you don't
• 51:18
  know yet, but you know, just be patient
• 51:21
  with me. And I would say it took maybe
• 51:24
  like two to three minutes and I just sat
• 51:28
  there meditating and then suddenly it
• 51:30
  just like slammed into my head, brain
• 51:33
  surgeon. And so I said it and that's
• 51:36
  what he was, brain surgeon. So, you
• 51:39
  know, I think it's it you know, to be
• 51:42
  kept on our toes, but you know, that
• 51:44
  that it creates a lot of anxiety, you
• 51:47
  know, it's just so much nicer to work
• 51:49
  with people that already believe in all
• 51:51
  this. They They trust you to some extent
• 51:54
  and then, you know, and and then it's
• 51:56
  not like on you. It's on really it's all
• 52:00
  about them.
• 52:02
  >> That's amazing, Deborah. That's not the
• 52:04
  primary focus of how I'm helping people.
• 52:06
  It isn't just that I can give them
• 52:09
  information.
• 52:11
  It's more about
• 52:13
  how a person can grow in their own
• 52:18
  hearts and minds.
• 52:20
  I think that if a person's intention
• 52:24
  is
• 52:25
  more in alignment with their own
• 52:28
  personal development, that's what I'm
• 52:31
  more interested in versus if somebody's
• 52:33
  caught up in
• 52:35
  the ego or wanting to use information to
• 52:41
  gain advantage or some type of power.
• 52:45
  I'm not interested in helping people in
• 52:47
  that unless it's authentic and that it
• 52:50
  serve
• 52:51
  serve humanity as a whole.
• 52:53
  Or or their own individual world, but
• 52:56
  and but in a but in a way that is
• 52:59
  you know, that has good values to it.
• 53:01
  So,
• 53:03
  usually the people who come to me, it's
• 53:05
  it's usually about some type of personal
• 53:06
  need or development within themselves.
• 53:10
  >> Yeah, that's definitely the most fun
• 53:13
  type of readings I'd say. I I do get a
• 53:16
  lot of questions about the stock market
• 53:19
  and crypto and things like that.
• 53:22
  Which which are fun, but well, they're
• 53:27
  fun until the news isn't so good.
• 53:30
  And I had that happen this weekend with
• 53:34
  a couple that really really wanted to
• 53:37
  hear that their crypto investments were
• 53:40
  going to go way up over the next few
• 53:43
  months and they were desperate for that
• 53:45
  to happen and I just didn't see that
• 53:47
  happening and
• 53:49
  you know, they I could feel they were
• 53:51
  you know, both disappointed and you
• 53:53
  know, I'm sure I sure hope that I'm
• 53:56
  wrong. I don't think I am but um yeah,
• 54:00
  you know, just things like that. I on
• 54:02
  the one hand being a bearer of bad news
• 54:04
  but the thing is if they just sit for
• 54:06
  the next three or four months hoping for
• 54:09
  it to go up, they're going to they could
• 54:11
  lose everything you know, in in their
• 54:14
  lives because they're they've like that
• 54:17
  that's
• 54:18
  they've been
• 54:19
  basically like not really working just
• 54:22
  waiting for it to go up so they can cash
• 54:24
  out and get a new place to live and
• 54:26
  everything. So, you know, they may not
• 54:29
  be happy now but I think after what we
• 54:32
  talked about they're going to like take
• 54:33
  a different approach to their money
• 54:35
  management. So, in the long run
• 54:38
  hopefully it all helps. So, yeah, I I
• 54:41
  it's way more fun just to look at when
• 54:44
  someone comes and says, you know, I want
• 54:45
  to be a better person or I want to show
• 54:47
  up for people more, you know, can you
• 54:50
  look and see what I need to do within
• 54:53
  myself?
• 54:55
  >> Most people don't come to me and say I
• 54:56
  want to be a better person but that's
• 54:57
  usually what's behind it is that they're
• 55:00
  wanting to improve something in their
• 55:01
  lives and finance, you know, money is a
• 55:02
  part of
• 55:04
  how we function in society and so
• 55:06
  absolutely I've helped people with with
• 55:09
  that [snorts] component and real estate
• 55:11
  and there are ways to get information on
• 55:13
  making decisions. Again, it's just a
• 55:15
  matter of
• 55:17
  how balanced a person is in those
• 55:19
  endeavors so that they're going forward
• 55:22
  in a way that again, I'm a my background
• 55:25
  is in healthcare so I think about what
• 55:27
  is
• 55:27
  for their
• 55:29
  their own wellness or well-being.
• 55:33
  >> So, what is your favorite
• 55:36
  clear to to use your clairovoyance,
• 55:39
  clairsentience, claircognizance?
• 55:43
  Do you have one?
• 55:45
  >> If I have a favorite, I think for me at
• 55:47
  this point, I just tend to open and just
• 55:49
  receive or get as much as
• 55:51
  information as possible and I would say
• 55:54
  that
• 55:55
  they're all being utilized.
• 55:57
  The one that
• 55:59
  I don't know if I have a favorite. I
• 56:01
  would just say that the one that can
• 56:03
  also give me
• 56:05
  more information would also would of
• 56:07
  course be clairvoyance, seeing imagery.
• 56:12
  Because there's so much information you
• 56:14
  can gain, which of course which I know
• 56:16
  you're a professional remote viewer and
• 56:17
  that's the foundation of remote viewing.
• 56:20
  Of course, it's not the correct me if
• 56:22
  I'm wrong, it's not just about inner
• 56:23
  sight or seeing.
• 56:25
  But I know that that's that's a big big
• 56:28
  part of of that field as well. Do you
• 56:31
  have a favorite?
• 56:32
  >> Yeah, I would say definitely
• 56:35
  clairvoyance and
• 56:38
  probably more because when you're
• 56:40
  reading someone with the symbols that
• 56:42
  come up, like the symbols could be so
• 56:44
  fun and so interesting. You know, it
• 56:47
  never gets tiring. Like, oh, I see a
• 56:51
  person with the window and they're one
• 56:54
  person might be looking out the window
• 56:56
  and another person might be trying to
• 56:58
  fix the window. Another person might
• 57:00
  have already gone out it or another
• 57:02
  person might be turned away from it. So,
• 57:05
  there's like these repetitive symbols
• 57:07
  that will come up, but they show up
• 57:09
  different for each person and you never
• 57:12
  know how they're going to show up and
• 57:13
  you don't always know, you know, maybe
• 57:15
  if the same thing has come up time and
• 57:18
  again, you like if I see someone they're
• 57:22
  they're looking through a window, but
• 57:23
  it's all cloudy and they can't see
• 57:25
  through it. You know, that's a little
• 57:27
  more self-explanatory. Like, okay,
• 57:29
  they're having trouble seeing like
• 57:31
  what's next um as opposed to someone who
• 57:34
  is already on the other side of it. It's
• 57:36
  like, oh, you recently went through a
• 57:38
  big change and finally ended up where
• 57:40
  you wanted to be. So, like, sometimes
• 57:43
  these come with interpretations, but
• 57:44
  other times not. And then having to like
• 57:48
  probe it more to And then maybe your
• 57:51
  knowing might come in to give you
• 57:54
  insight along with the visual, but
• 57:56
  sometimes not. So, it's It's kind of
• 57:58
  like step-by-step
• 58:00
  exploration or mystery. And at this to
• 58:04
  to have things like that happen that are
• 58:06
  totally bypassing your conscious mind as
• 58:09
  to why they're there, but it is like
• 58:11
  watching little movies. So, I think I I
• 58:14
  really enjoyed that the most. And then
• 58:17
  also, you know, when people come, like
• 58:20
  my students who will say, well, I don't
• 58:23
  really see things, I just feel things.
• 58:26
  And then to what I'll usually say to
• 58:29
  them is, well, if you're with a client
• 58:32
  and let's say you're feeling sadness or
• 58:35
  something is happening in your heart,
• 58:38
  then just like go and visualize their
• 58:41
  heart chakra. And and ask like what like
• 58:44
  just assume it's about them cuz you
• 58:47
  weren't feeling it before, but now
• 58:49
  change your focus to like see a screen
• 58:52
  in front of you, see the person on the
• 58:53
  screen, and then put your focus on their
• 58:57
  heart. Or if you feel like, you know,
• 59:00
  pain go through your head, put your
• 59:02
  focus on their head and say, okay, show
• 59:04
  me the energy that's creating this pain.
• 59:08
  And that's like a way to move from one
• 59:10
  sensory to the other. So, I'll Do you
• 59:15
  ever do stuff like that? Or have you
• 59:18
  found
• 59:19
  >> With imagery,
• 59:20
  visions that we see in our mind's eye,
• 59:24
  if you will,
• 59:25
  that sometimes they can be actual direct
• 59:30
  information and sometimes they can be
• 59:31
  symbols that need to be interpreted. So,
• 59:33
  when you said that word interpretation,
• 59:35
  I just wanted to take a moment and pause
• 59:37
  on that because that also is a bit of an
• 59:39
  art form in this realm is interpreting
• 59:43
  the information as it comes forward and
• 59:45
  what is what is the meaning? And of
• 59:46
  course, there's books written on that
• 59:48
  and
• 59:49
  the internet's full of interpreting and
• 59:51
  but I think first and foremost is using
• 59:53
  your own intuition. At least that's how
• 59:55
  I teach of what of what is
• 59:57
  is coming up and then I just wanted to
• 59:59
  add that clairaudient that I often hear
• 1:00:02
  messages and I often am guided
• 1:00:04
  auditorially and that can give me a lot
• 1:00:08
  of information
• 1:00:10
  and on what a person needs or where to
• 1:00:14
  focus and and so forth.
• 1:00:16
  And getting clarity, you know, as we go
• 1:00:18
  and so forth. Mhm.
• 1:00:20
  >> Yeah, do you find that those messages
• 1:00:24
  are coming from the person themselves or
• 1:00:27
  do you feel they're coming from an
• 1:00:29
  external source like a spirit
• 1:00:32
  or entity?
• 1:00:34
  >> Over time, if we take the
• 1:00:38
  paradigm or viewpoint that everything is
• 1:00:40
  interconnected,
• 1:00:41
  then it just is. It's like in the
• 1:00:45
  quantum or unified field. You know, when
• 1:00:47
  you're talking earlier about your
• 1:00:50
  beautiful twin sister, which I know
• 1:00:52
  you've had
• 1:00:53
  a great conversation
• 1:00:56
  on New Thinking Allowed with
• 1:00:58
  that you can you would know when she was
• 1:00:59
  going to call.
• 1:01:01
  And I have
• 1:01:03
  siblings myself. I have four brothers
• 1:01:06
  and just in the last couple weeks, a
• 1:01:09
  couple of them called me. I was just
• 1:01:10
  about to call them, which is also a
• 1:01:12
  common occurrence.
• 1:01:13
  And one just happened a couple days ago
• 1:01:15
  and I said, "Oh, I was just about to
• 1:01:16
  call you, but you beat me to it." And
• 1:01:18
  then it begs the question,
• 1:01:20
  who was thinking of whom first?
• 1:01:23
  Or did it sort of simultane-
• 1:01:25
  simultaneously arise in our own
• 1:01:27
  consciousness? In practice, there are
• 1:01:30
  times where it seems that the
• 1:01:33
  information is more coming from the
• 1:01:35
  person, and then there are times that I
• 1:01:37
  am getting information from whom? Is it
• 1:01:40
  my higher self? Is it some Is it Is it
• 1:01:44
  my guardian angel? Is it an NHI, a
• 1:01:48
  non-human intelligence?
• 1:01:50
  Which of course, you know, there's
• 1:01:51
  different permutations of all of that.
• 1:01:54
  And in a given moment, it would probably
• 1:01:56
  just be What do I sense? Where do I
• 1:01:59
  sense that's coming from? As I go on
• 1:02:01
  also in life and in this
• 1:02:03
  this field, this arena, if you will,
• 1:02:07
  that I really do think it is all
• 1:02:08
  interconnected. It's just we're we're
• 1:02:10
  different lenses or different facets of
• 1:02:13
  the diamond.
• 1:02:15
  What do you think?
• 1:02:16
  >> I feel like it's all different sources,
• 1:02:20
  and certainly there's lots of times
• 1:02:22
  where if you ask me in that moment, I
• 1:02:24
  would say I have no idea where it's
• 1:02:26
  coming from.
• 1:02:27
  >> Yeah, but sometimes you just don't
• 1:02:28
  You're just like, it's coming to me, and
• 1:02:29
  it feels accurate. Yeah.
• 1:02:31
  >> Yeah, definitely times like that, as
• 1:02:34
  well as like with the images not always
• 1:02:36
  being sure is this a literal picture? Is
• 1:02:39
  this symbolic? I think the That's
• 1:02:41
  challenges that many clairvoyants have.
• 1:02:44
  But there are definitely times where I
• 1:02:46
  am very
• 1:02:48
  confident in saying this is a spirit.
• 1:02:52
  Because it'll have a certain voice,
• 1:02:55
  it'll speak in a certain way that seems
• 1:02:58
  very different from my client, and very
• 1:03:01
  different than how my thinking comes in.
• 1:03:04
  It might come with sensations, you know,
• 1:03:07
  like waves of energy or little shocks,
• 1:03:09
  or a change of temperature.
• 1:03:13
  Sometimes I will like get pictures of
• 1:03:16
  somebody of, you know, just like a face
• 1:03:18
  as someone was talking or just you know
• 1:03:21
  a real strong smell of like you know oh
• 1:03:24
  there's a old guy here smoking a pipe
• 1:03:27
  with like blue eyes and you know then
• 1:03:29
  they'll be able to confirm that that is
• 1:03:33
  like their grandfather who seems to show
• 1:03:35
  up in all their readings or things like
• 1:03:37
  that. You must get that quite a bit all
• 1:03:40
  right.
• 1:03:41
  >> Yeah just when you were speaking and
• 1:03:42
  again we're on the same wavelength I was
• 1:03:45
  just thinking about how
• 1:03:47
  my mediumship abilities just naturally
• 1:03:50
  started unfolding where I was starting
• 1:03:52
  to sense
• 1:03:53
  past pets loved ones and I would hear
• 1:03:56
  messages and I
• 1:03:59
  would ask people if I were to receive a
• 1:04:02
  message from this is before I was fully
• 1:04:05
  calling myself an intuitive
• 1:04:07
  if I were to receive messages from a
• 1:04:10
  past loved one or are you comfortable if
• 1:04:12
  I were to share that with you and again
• 1:04:15
  it was uncanny how I was how accurate it
• 1:04:18
  would be as far as who I was sensing who
• 1:04:20
  actually had already passed in their
• 1:04:21
  life what their personality was like and
• 1:04:23
  sometimes
• 1:04:25
  I would be shown what they looked like
• 1:04:26
  in the their human form and that would
• 1:04:30
  you know that brings so much comfort to
• 1:04:31
  people and I just interviewed
• 1:04:34
  or just edited an interview with Lauren
• 1:04:36
  Robertson who's a fabulous psychic
• 1:04:38
  medium and we had a whole conversation
• 1:04:41
  about how that can assist people with
• 1:04:43
  their grief of course people have to go
• 1:04:45
  through their own grieving
• 1:04:46
  and also Janice Miner Holden who is last
• 1:04:51
  I knew was the president of the
• 1:04:52
  International Association for Near Death
• 1:04:54
  Studies how she's done research that
• 1:04:56
  when people are able to
• 1:04:59
  communicate or participate in a process
• 1:05:01
  of after death communication induced
• 1:05:04
  after death communication that their
• 1:05:07
  grief actually decreases more than
• 1:05:10
  traditional talk therapy or counseling.
• 1:05:13
  Typically, I mean, you know, of course
• 1:05:15
  there's maybe not 100% everybody.
• 1:05:18
  So, yes, that absolutely happens and and
• 1:05:21
  it's a beau- it's a beautiful process
• 1:05:23
  because again
• 1:05:26
  it just can bring so much comfort to
• 1:05:27
  people and for them to realize
• 1:05:30
  for us as humans, some people it's just
• 1:05:32
  very normal and natural, but for many
• 1:05:34
  humans it's like we have to remember our
• 1:05:36
  spiritual selves and that's the way for
• 1:05:40
  people to get that validation if you
• 1:05:42
  will.
• 1:05:44
  >> Yeah. And that does seem to be the case
• 1:05:46
  with so many
• 1:05:49
  intuitives that I know and a lot of my
• 1:05:51
  students and me included where we didn't
• 1:05:54
  start off intentionally to be mediums.
• 1:05:58
  You know, certainly there's a lot of
• 1:06:00
  people that do, but maybe we were just
• 1:06:02
  kind of nervous about it or that just
• 1:06:04
  wasn't like our main focus.
• 1:06:06
  But after reading so many people on
• 1:06:10
  their energy field, you can't not have
• 1:06:14
  that happen. They show up, you know,
• 1:06:15
  there there's this whole spirit world
• 1:06:18
  around people and whether or not you
• 1:06:20
  want to believe they're there, you know,
• 1:06:22
  I do know sometimes
• 1:06:24
  people will misinterpret the spirits for
• 1:06:27
  other things, you know, especially if
• 1:06:29
  they come from a world view like, oh,
• 1:06:31
  there's not I I don't want to deal with
• 1:06:33
  spirits, but you know, here's something
• 1:06:36
  that looks like a cat or here's
• 1:06:38
  something that looks like you know, an
• 1:06:40
  an old man and I'm just going to like,
• 1:06:43
  you know, take a Youngian
• 1:06:45
  um
• 1:06:46
  approach to this and, you know, come up
• 1:06:48
  with what this might mean for the
• 1:06:49
  person, but like after a little bit of
• 1:06:52
  time you just or a long time you can't
• 1:06:55
  ignore it. They're there and if they
• 1:06:57
  wanted make themselves known, they're
• 1:06:59
  going to make themselves known
• 1:07:01
  regardless of if the intuitive wants
• 1:07:04
  that to happen.
• 1:07:06
  >> Yes, they will elbow their way into the
• 1:07:08
  room. No, and well, and just sometimes,
• 1:07:10
  yeah, you you sense it. And it is a
• 1:07:12
  beautiful unfolding with this
• 1:07:13
  development of intuition or psychic
• 1:07:16
  abilities are are sometimes a misnomer
• 1:07:19
  to say a development because it's also a
• 1:07:22
  natural ability uncovering it, but we do
• 1:07:25
  we can we can refine it. It's fun for me
• 1:07:27
  to recollect how when I was first
• 1:07:29
  starting out, of course, I had
• 1:07:30
  experiences, but when I was in in my
• 1:07:32
  training and being a student,
• 1:07:35
  how it was very basic, rudimentary as
• 1:07:37
  far as how I could receive information,
• 1:07:38
  but then how it just over the years just
• 1:07:41
  continues to open and open and open.
• 1:07:43
  Then all sudden, the spirits start
• 1:07:45
  showing up or we maybe it's said I we
• 1:07:47
  become more aware of them. And also, it
• 1:07:49
  might also be part of
• 1:07:52
  what that person needs in front of us.
• 1:07:56
  >> Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:07:58
  Well,
• 1:08:00
  I had this experience
• 1:08:02
  a few years ago where I was reading a
• 1:08:06
  client and she had some career questions
• 1:08:09
  and we were just going in over the
• 1:08:11
  career and then suddenly something
• 1:08:14
  happened. Now, I had my eyes closed, she
• 1:08:17
  was on Zoom and I don't have cameras on
• 1:08:20
  when I'm doing my readings, so I just
• 1:08:22
  hear their voice. So, I I can and she
• 1:08:25
  wasn't speaking, I was talking the most
• 1:08:27
  most of the time and something happened.
• 1:08:30
  It was like
• 1:08:32
  a crashing in, like I just it was like I
• 1:08:35
  felt a crashing, almost like someone
• 1:08:37
  came in through the ceiling, but but and
• 1:08:40
  it just like shook me and I got all
• 1:08:43
  discombobulated and I could barely speak
• 1:08:46
  and I was like, I don't know what's
• 1:08:47
  happening right now, but something just
• 1:08:49
  happened. Like give me a minute to
• 1:08:51
  compose myself. I was just like, what is
• 1:08:54
  going on? And then I heard this name,
• 1:08:58
  like a name ring out and I think it was
• 1:09:01
  Carolyn. Can't really remember but it I
• 1:09:04
  I said the name and then I got this
• 1:09:08
  picture of this little girl standing
• 1:09:10
  there waving and I just started to get
• 1:09:13
  like waves from her and information and
• 1:09:19
  and I described this girl and she was
• 1:09:21
  like, "Oh, well, I don't know who the
• 1:09:22
  girl is but um
• 1:09:25
  she said, "I had I was in an orphanage
• 1:09:30
  and there was a
• 1:09:33
  girl that I was friends with." And this
• 1:09:36
  took her a while to figure out and then
• 1:09:39
  then she remembered. So, she said she
• 1:09:42
  was in an orphanage.
• 1:09:45
  She was best friends with this little
• 1:09:47
  girl and they were both like around 9
• 1:09:50
  years old or so and they were best
• 1:09:52
  friends for a few years and then they
• 1:09:54
  got split up.
• 1:09:56
  The girl went to another orphanage and
• 1:09:59
  she never heard from her again. But, she
• 1:10:01
  made such an impact on her that she
• 1:10:03
  named her daughter after her and the
• 1:10:06
  daughter's name was the same name. So, I
• 1:10:10
  thought that was really cool and that
• 1:10:13
  that was so interesting to me cuz I knew
• 1:10:15
  that like like she had come into the
• 1:10:17
  scene, you know, and it was so weird
• 1:10:20
  that it was like this crashing
• 1:10:21
  sensation. So, after that, that's really
• 1:10:25
  when
• 1:10:26
  I found like more and more spirits were
• 1:10:29
  coming through at that time.
• 1:10:31
  Um but, yeah, sometimes it is really
• 1:10:34
  when it's not that strong, it can be
• 1:10:37
  really subtle and there's a lot of times
• 1:10:39
  where
• 1:10:40
  you know, if if I'm not sure it's a
• 1:10:43
  spirit, I don't want to say it's a
• 1:10:45
  spirit, you know, what? And I know some
• 1:10:48
  readers will constantly say like, "Oh,
• 1:10:50
  it's spirit is telling me this or spirit
• 1:10:53
  is telling me that." But, I only I to
• 1:10:55
  use that terminology if I really have a
• 1:10:59
  reason to be confident that it's
• 1:11:01
  actually spirit as opposed to like the
• 1:11:04
  telepathy from that person being read.
• 1:11:08
  Do you Do you ever have a sense that it
• 1:11:10
  really is like them, like a part of
• 1:11:12
  their mind or heart that's talking to
• 1:11:15
  you directly?
• 1:11:17
  >> Oh, absolutely.
• 1:11:19
  Particularly if I'm doing
• 1:11:22
  like an energy assessment. Well, in
• 1:11:24
  general, I do check That's what I check
• 1:11:26
  in with first and foremost is the the
• 1:11:28
  client, the person, you know, tell me
• 1:11:30
  what I need to know. Where do you want
• 1:11:32
  me to go? What do we need to do? That's
• 1:11:33
  what I'm saying in my mind after I get
• 1:11:35
  centered and open and I do all the
• 1:11:37
  things I do to be able to receive and
• 1:11:39
  assist them.
• 1:11:41
  Usually, most often it is from them, but
• 1:11:43
  other times there's other guidance
• 1:11:45
  coming from other places. And sometimes
• 1:11:48
  I think it is also my higher self that's
• 1:11:51
  just picking up on, you know,
• 1:11:53
  that's, you know, the
• 1:11:55
  gazillion-dollar question is where does
• 1:11:57
  it come from?
• 1:11:58
  >> [laughter]
• 1:11:58
  >> Where does that Where does that come
• 1:12:00
  from? And I also just want to add that
• 1:12:03
  we're talking about psychic and an an
• 1:12:05
  intuition. I think that they can be used
• 1:12:07
  interchangeably, but they can also be on
• 1:12:08
  their own continuum as well because I
• 1:12:10
  think that intuition
• 1:12:13
  is a natural part of our own
• 1:12:15
  consciousness or psychology, if you
• 1:12:17
  will, that's not typically encouraged,
• 1:12:20
  although like I had a father who
• 1:12:22
  encouraged it and I'm grateful for that.
• 1:12:25
  And maybe you did in your life as well,
• 1:12:27
  which is maybe why you're in in this
• 1:12:29
  field. So, there's your own inner
• 1:12:32
  compass, if you will, your own north
• 1:12:33
  node that you have within you. And then
• 1:12:37
  there also can be where you can receive
• 1:12:39
  information beyond space and time and
• 1:12:42
  more of that psychic, but, you know,
• 1:12:43
  again, these are just terms.
• 1:12:46
  I also just want to add that
• 1:12:49
  while sometimes these things can happen
• 1:12:50
  spontaneously, We can
• 1:12:53
  learn to get information.
• 1:12:55
  I think I think developing a person's
• 1:12:58
  intuition, and this is why I wrote my
• 1:13:00
  book and why I'm so grateful to talk
• 1:13:01
  with you, is something that is an
• 1:13:03
  underutilized superpower that we all
• 1:13:06
  have, that if people took the time to
• 1:13:10
  maybe even just meditate once a week or
• 1:13:13
  do a training with
• 1:13:15
  somebody who is credible,
• 1:13:17
  that your life will likely improve by
• 1:13:19
  doing that.
• 1:13:21
  But, I also want to add that
• 1:13:23
  based on a person who's listening their
• 1:13:26
  own belief or their own karma, if you
• 1:13:28
  will, that we also need to be in the
• 1:13:31
  earth world and live our lives.
• 1:13:34
  And and it isn't an either/or, one or
• 1:13:37
  the other, but if a person is
• 1:13:41
  it's like, why does a person want to
• 1:13:43
  develop their intuitive or psychic
• 1:13:45
  abilities? What is the What is the
• 1:13:47
  purpose or intention or the end goal for
• 1:13:49
  that? And to also live your life because
• 1:13:53
  life is also a great teacher, and
• 1:13:54
  sometimes these
• 1:13:57
  these uh experiences do happen
• 1:13:59
  spontaneously.
• 1:14:01
  And at the same time, I think the more
• 1:14:03
  that we have that and
• 1:14:06
  utilize it in our own earthly realm, if
• 1:14:09
  you will, that
• 1:14:11
  we can feel that sense of awe and wonder
• 1:14:15
  in our daily lives, and I think that
• 1:14:17
  that's really what a lot of people are
• 1:14:19
  looking for. There was a psychologist,
• 1:14:22
  sociologist, Howard Howard Kleinbell, I
• 1:14:24
  believe it was his name, was he talks
• 1:14:26
  about seven spiritual hungers that
• 1:14:28
  humans have. And one of them is for awe
• 1:14:31
  and transcendence.
• 1:14:32
  And I think that what we're talking
• 1:14:33
  about,
• 1:14:35
  I don't know, I would curious what you
• 1:14:36
  have to say, but
• 1:14:38
  I'm in awe every day because I get to be
• 1:14:41
  in this realm that continually shows
• 1:14:44
  itself over and over in the most
• 1:14:46
  beautiful ways and
• 1:14:49
  and I am so grateful to talk with you
• 1:14:51
  because hopefully our words, our
• 1:14:53
  presence, our conversation today will
• 1:14:55
  inspire others to embrace that in
• 1:14:58
  meaningful ways so that so that they can
• 1:15:01
  feel more joy, peace, and love in their
• 1:15:04
  lives as well.
• 1:15:06
  >> Yeah, definitely. I always feel so
• 1:15:09
  grateful to be doing this work because,
• 1:15:12
  you know, it's so easy to get dragged
• 1:15:15
  down by other things, especially you
• 1:15:17
  know, you watch TV and I am an avid news
• 1:15:22
  watcher. Like I love politics. I watch
• 1:15:26
  C-SPAN and the Senate hearings all the
• 1:15:28
  time, which are
• 1:15:29
  constantly frustrating. But and then,
• 1:15:32
  you know, having political debates with
• 1:15:35
  people.
• 1:15:36
  But [laughter] I find it really
• 1:15:37
  interesting. But then to so and it
• 1:15:40
  definitely, you know, I know the moment
• 1:15:42
  my vibration goes down, which is
• 1:15:44
  probably, you know, 5 minutes after
• 1:15:47
  turning on the TV, I can feel it. But
• 1:15:49
  then to be able to meditate for a little
• 1:15:53
  bit and then go into an intuitive
• 1:15:55
  session where all of that goes out the
• 1:15:57
  window and, you know, we're not always
• 1:16:00
  dealing with easy things with people in
• 1:16:03
  their lives. But for one, it's just so
• 1:16:05
  fun, you know, again like all the
• 1:16:07
  imagery that's coming up. It's like
• 1:16:10
  watching movies and cartoons and being
• 1:16:14
  on an adventure with the person and then
• 1:16:17
  getting to experience what they're
• 1:16:19
  experiencing and getting to see the
• 1:16:22
  transformation with people. You know,
• 1:16:24
  that's the other thing doing this long
• 1:16:26
  term. Like I've got clients where, you
• 1:16:29
  know, they started off like they didn't
• 1:16:31
  know where they wanted to
• 1:16:34
  go to school and they ended up becoming
• 1:16:36
  medical doctors or, you know, attorneys
• 1:16:39
  or all kinds of things and, you know,
• 1:16:41
  where they met a guy the last week and
• 1:16:43
  they wanted a reading on them and now
• 1:16:45
  like 10 years later they're married and
• 1:16:48
  another 15 years later they're having
• 1:16:50
  babies and you know, so it's like
• 1:16:52
  getting to just experience other
• 1:16:54
  people's lives and then also just like
• 1:16:57
  being in that vibration, you know,
• 1:16:59
  regardless of whatever the content is to
• 1:17:02
  I always feel so different after reading
• 1:17:06
  and most of the time uplifted. I didn't
• 1:17:08
  feel uplifted with the couple where I
• 1:17:11
  was like looking at their crypto
• 1:17:13
  tanking.
• 1:17:14
  I I didn't I didn't I felt kind of sad
• 1:17:18
  for them and like, oh, I wanted to give
• 1:17:19
  them good news. But most of the time I
• 1:17:23
  it's like getting into this vibration
• 1:17:25
  and zone and I come out of it and I just
• 1:17:28
  feel I I feel like almost manic, like
• 1:17:31
  excited and happy and so just knowing
• 1:17:35
  how to go in and out of
• 1:17:38
  vibrations or states and doing this
• 1:17:41
  client work can really help in some
• 1:17:44
  ways. I mean meditation totally does
• 1:17:47
  too. It's just like a different way and
• 1:17:49
  I feel so grateful. I I think when
• 1:17:52
  you're doing um this work
• 1:17:54
  professionally, like even if you kind of
• 1:17:56
  wake up and you're like, oh, I don't
• 1:17:58
  really feel like doing a reading today.
• 1:18:00
  It's it's like taking your vitamins, you
• 1:18:03
  know, you might not feel like swallowing
• 1:18:05
  them, but it has such an amazing impact.
• 1:18:08
  So
• 1:18:09
  yeah, I feel very blessed to be able to
• 1:18:11
  do that and I think when you know how to
• 1:18:14
  change states, then you can go into the
• 1:18:18
  lower vibrations, you know, cuz you
• 1:18:20
  know, I'm not going to get stuck there.
• 1:18:22
  I can pull myself up. Whereas for some
• 1:18:25
  people it's like, no, you definitely do
• 1:18:27
  not want to turn your TV on today or
• 1:18:30
  this week, you know, if if you can't
• 1:18:32
  pull yourself out so easily.
• 1:18:35
  >> Yeah, thank you for that, Deborah, and I
• 1:18:36
  don't want to sound Pollyanna-ish. I'm I
• 1:18:40
  I've been providing
• 1:18:44
  patient care since I was a teenager. I
• 1:18:46
  worked in hospitals, skilled nursing
• 1:18:47
  facilities.
• 1:18:50
  I've seen all sorts of health conditions
• 1:18:53
  and what and even in my own practice.
• 1:18:56
  It's not uncommon for people who are
• 1:18:57
  dealing with
• 1:18:59
  new diagnoses or not that that's my main
• 1:19:04
  focus is is just health, but
• 1:19:08
  meaning that I know that people are
• 1:19:10
  dealing with real-world issues in their
• 1:19:12
  lives and that's why they take time out
• 1:19:14
  of their schedule to book sessions, to
• 1:19:17
  pay money to meet with somebody such as
• 1:19:20
  our ourselves. And for me when I'm
• 1:19:24
  working with somebody
• 1:19:26
  if they are
• 1:19:28
  receiving something that is not
• 1:19:31
  necessarily what they want to hear. It's
• 1:19:33
  a matter of or something going on for
• 1:19:36
  them that's challenging.
• 1:19:39
  It's what can we how can we help them
• 1:19:40
  through that process? And I would
• 1:19:42
  imagine maybe with your folks you did
• 1:19:43
  the same thing. And doing reconnaissance
• 1:19:46
  like, you know, with the your crypto
• 1:19:48
  people, you know, what's going on with
• 1:19:50
  them? How did they make those decisions?
• 1:19:52
  And and it's true. Sometimes even
• 1:19:55
  despite our best efforts, we can have
• 1:19:56
  still have challenging situations. And
• 1:19:59
  again, that's something to really
• 1:20:01
  contemplate for us all of us
• 1:20:03
  individually and I I think people do
• 1:20:05
  their lives, you know, like, why did
• 1:20:06
  this quote bad thing happen or
• 1:20:09
  I tried this, but I didn't get into this
• 1:20:11
  or I thought that that was the person I
• 1:20:13
  was going to marry, but it completely
• 1:20:15
  went south and
• 1:20:17
  I know in my life hindsight has really
• 1:20:19
  helped a lot in that arena. And I have
• 1:20:22
  worked with people where they're
• 1:20:24
  literally
• 1:20:26
  going to die. There's
• 1:20:29
  their treatments have run out. They've
• 1:20:31
  done all the traditional and
• 1:20:32
  non-traditional treatments, and that is
• 1:20:34
  it.
• 1:20:35
  And they're really looking in that case
• 1:20:37
  usually for comfort and peace and some
• 1:20:39
  type of connection to the spirit world
• 1:20:42
  to know that we do continue after this.
• 1:20:44
  And it's a it's an incredible honor and
• 1:20:47
  privilege for me to work with
• 1:20:49
  each and every person who seeks my
• 1:20:51
  support because it is a very personal
• 1:20:54
  and intimate experience to do that,
• 1:20:58
  but also
• 1:20:59
  very rewarding.
• 1:21:02
  >> Yeah, and that's such a good point that
• 1:21:05
  well, for one, we're all going to die at
• 1:21:07
  some point, you know, and and this is
• 1:21:09
  the paradox for
• 1:21:11
  all healers. I think especially energy
• 1:21:14
  healers. Cuz you know, on the one hand,
• 1:21:16
  it's like you want to keep an open mind
• 1:21:19
  that all healing is possible, but if if
• 1:21:23
  healing is, you know, about the
• 1:21:25
  physical, well, you're not always going
• 1:21:28
  to
• 1:21:28
  you're there's a lot of times you're not
• 1:21:30
  going to be successful because
• 1:21:31
  everyone's going to die at some point.
• 1:21:33
  So then, you know, what what is the
• 1:21:35
  healing doing? It's may very well be
• 1:21:39
  helping with that transition. You know,
• 1:21:41
  there I've definitely had readings where
• 1:21:45
  I I entered it thinking the goal is to
• 1:21:48
  keep them alive, but actually the goal
• 1:21:51
  was to help them transition, and they
• 1:21:53
  died the very next day.
• 1:21:55
  So,
• 1:21:56
  so yeah, that's a challenge, but also we
• 1:21:59
  never do want to
• 1:22:01
  leave people with just bad news. And
• 1:22:04
  that doesn't mean like, oh, I'm just
• 1:22:06
  going to now make up something that's
• 1:22:08
  good. It's like, no. If this if this
• 1:22:10
  goal isn't going to work out, then why
• 1:22:14
  isn't it working?
• 1:22:16
  What what are their next steps? What's
• 1:22:18
  going to help them cope with all of
• 1:22:21
  this? That's essential. You don't want
• 1:22:23
  to just say, you know, no, sorry, he's
• 1:22:26
  he's dumping you. You're not going to
• 1:22:28
  hear from him again and you know, see
• 1:22:30
  you later.
• 1:22:31
  >> Your life is ruined and that's that. No,
• 1:22:34
  you of course Yeah. Hearts not. Yeah.
• 1:22:36
  >> But yeah, helping people deal with
• 1:22:39
  disappointments and you know, so often
• 1:22:42
  times whatever they're disappointed
• 1:22:45
  with, it's like they are they had
• 1:22:47
  limited information. You know, like it
• 1:22:49
  may not even be that they so much wanted
• 1:22:52
  to be with the person who's not
• 1:22:54
  reciprocating. Well, that person wasn't
• 1:22:57
  right for them to begin with, you know,
• 1:23:00
  I mean maybe most of the time maybe they
• 1:23:03
  could have been good if that person had
• 1:23:04
  been available, but there's so many
• 1:23:07
  unknowns and people build these stories
• 1:23:09
  about what they think they have to have
• 1:23:11
  or how it has to turn out and I mean
• 1:23:14
  even with that the couple that I was
• 1:23:17
  talking about where if they didn't get
• 1:23:19
  their crypto, they were going to lose
• 1:23:21
  this huge deposit on their house and
• 1:23:23
  they weren't going to be able to buy the
• 1:23:25
  house they wanted, but really when we we
• 1:23:28
  looked into it, the house was an
• 1:23:30
  $800,000 house and they were like in
• 1:23:34
  their late 70s, early 80s. Did Did they
• 1:23:38
  really want to have the taxes on a
• 1:23:40
  $800,000 house if they have like, you
• 1:23:43
  know, no money in their bank account?
• 1:23:45
  So, you know, it might in the moment be
• 1:23:47
  devastating that they're not going to be
• 1:23:49
  able to buy this house they wanted, but
• 1:23:52
  that might have like placed such a
• 1:23:54
  burden if it did work out. So, you know,
• 1:23:57
  there's just sometimes these things are
• 1:23:59
  blessing in disguises and looking deeper
• 1:24:02
  into it, you know, can also be helpful.
• 1:24:06
  But this is where it's like we do get to
• 1:24:08
  like
• 1:24:09
  have an intimate first view into
• 1:24:13
  people's lives and I think for those of
• 1:24:16
  us that are interested in people, you
• 1:24:18
  know, it is like getting to see the
• 1:24:20
  movies of their lives and and it is such
• 1:24:23
  a blessing.
• 1:24:24
  >> I have great compassion
• 1:24:27
  for people when they don't get what they
• 1:24:29
  want or they think they want.
• 1:24:32
  Absolutely. I I've been in that boat.
• 1:24:35
  I'll probably be in that boat again. And
• 1:24:38
  also when you're talking about
• 1:24:39
  relationships,
• 1:24:41
  there's a saying is somebody a reason, a
• 1:24:43
  season, or a lifetime. And maybe there
• 1:24:46
  was some
• 1:24:48
  exploration, learning, development
• 1:24:51
  >> that happened for those individuals in
• 1:24:53
  that relationship. I've talked with Rob
• 1:24:55
  Schwartz who's talks about has assisted
• 1:24:58
  people with
• 1:25:00
  soul regressions and he talks about how
• 1:25:04
  we choose certain virtues we want to
• 1:25:07
  grow and develop in our lives and that
• 1:25:09
  maybe there's there's a a reason for
• 1:25:12
  some of that.
• 1:25:14
  And so I just wanted to acknowledge
• 1:25:16
  that piece.
• 1:25:18
  >> That made me think of uh
• 1:25:20
  famous psychologist Fritz Perls.
• 1:25:24
  I read an article where he was talking
• 1:25:26
  about imagination
• 1:25:28
  and he was saying that when people
• 1:25:31
  imagine things including
• 1:25:35
  either what they would really like to
• 1:25:37
  have in life but doesn't work out or
• 1:25:41
  maybe when they're imagining their fears
• 1:25:44
  and anxieties coming true, they're
• 1:25:47
  running through all these different
• 1:25:49
  scenarios
• 1:25:51
  and maybe because they spent some time
• 1:25:54
  engaging with that imaginary story, they
• 1:25:59
  don't have to now manifest it in life.
• 1:26:03
  And yeah, and I think about that a lot
• 1:26:08
  where okay, like I'm having this fantasy
• 1:26:11
  about being with this person and you
• 1:26:13
  know,
• 1:26:14
  regardless whether it's a great one or a
• 1:26:17
  scary one.
• 1:26:19
  Okay, now been there done that and I
• 1:26:21
  don't need to now like manifest this
• 1:26:24
  whole relationship around that. And so
• 1:26:27
  he was saying imagination can be like
• 1:26:29
  really useful. It's like you you can
• 1:26:32
  maybe just have a couple of
• 1:26:34
  relationships instead of 10
• 1:26:36
  relationships.
• 1:26:38
  >> Depending on a person's belief, I'm I'm
• 1:26:40
  in this camp. I think that we all do
• 1:26:42
  have karma and dharma and of course we
• 1:26:46
  are always creating that. So we we are
• 1:26:48
  in the driver's seat and that some
• 1:26:52
  things maybe are meant to come to pass
• 1:26:54
  in our lives or or not depending on our
• 1:26:56
  own intentions or or why we're here. And
• 1:26:59
  it was interesting with you talking
• 1:27:00
  about your crypto couple.
• 1:27:03
  Were you doing like a like a future
• 1:27:06
  forecast for them or Okay, yeah. And
• 1:27:08
  that's something we haven't touched on
• 1:27:10
  in this conversation, but that's also
• 1:27:12
  another component in this realm is
• 1:27:15
  likely outcomes.
• 1:27:17
  Which I don't know if you want to touch
• 1:27:18
  on or not, but that's that's a whole
• 1:27:19
  other a whole other piece. You you
• 1:27:21
  probably do more of that than than I do
• 1:27:23
  although that also has its own set of
• 1:27:26
  variables. So
• 1:27:28
  as far as what the likely outcome might
• 1:27:29
  be. Mhm.
• 1:27:31
  >> What are your thoughts on that? I'm sure
• 1:27:33
  you get the question all the time if you
• 1:27:36
  see an outcome for someone is it for
• 1:27:40
  sure? Is it stable or reliable or could
• 1:27:44
  it change?
• 1:27:46
  >> If it's something that's in the near
• 1:27:48
  future, it's usually
• 1:27:50
  it's usually accurate as to what will
• 1:27:53
  occur.
• 1:27:54
  There's often different variables
• 1:27:56
  involved on how a person would actions
• 1:27:59
  they take and so forth.
• 1:28:01
  How I was taught is that it's really
• 1:28:03
  what's happening in this moment in time
• 1:28:05
  and that things can change. And I know
• 1:28:08
  you're friends with and work
• 1:28:11
  professionally with Daz Smith, a
• 1:28:13
  fabulous remote viewer, and he's talked
• 1:28:15
  about his accuracy with remote viewing
• 1:28:17
  is 80 plus percent. But when we get into
• 1:28:20
  doing future forecasting, then it goes
• 1:28:23
  down to like in the 60 percentile.
• 1:28:26
  If if I recall those numbers correctly,
• 1:28:28
  I may be slightly off on that. And he I
• 1:28:31
  think says the same thing is that
• 1:28:33
  there's so many variables, and and
• 1:28:36
  things can change essentially. And at
• 1:28:38
  the same time, I've had the pleasure of
• 1:28:42
  being on a live stream with Jeffrey
• 1:28:43
  Mishlove and Russell Targ, and Russell
• 1:28:45
  Targ indicates that we maybe don't have
• 1:28:48
  as much control over our
• 1:28:51
  destiny, if you will, or I'm not exactly
• 1:28:53
  sure how he said that.
• 1:28:55
  Then we think we do.
• 1:28:57
  Meaning that Meaning that there's things
• 1:28:59
  that are sort of already mapped out for
• 1:29:00
  us. So, yeah, that's a that's a big one.
• 1:29:04
  >> Yeah. Well, when I do readings for
• 1:29:07
  people,
• 1:29:09
  it seems like some people really have
• 1:29:11
  their future set, and it's easy to read
• 1:29:15
  what's about to happen, and then
• 1:29:18
  and then I'll get confirmation on it. Uh
• 1:29:22
  like I got this woman, she was going to
• 1:29:25
  be meeting her future husband, and had
• 1:29:29
  such a strong description of him, but he
• 1:29:32
  was unusual looking. Like he had bright
• 1:29:34
  red hair and a bright
• 1:29:36
  bright red
• 1:29:38
  beard and piercing blue eyes. And this
• 1:29:41
  came in so strongly, and she wrote to me
• 1:29:44
  like less than a week later saying she
• 1:29:46
  had met the guy like 3 days after we
• 1:29:49
  met, and they ended up getting married.
• 1:29:51
  And that was so clear. But then I'll
• 1:29:55
  look at other people's futures, and
• 1:29:58
  sometimes I will get like just this
• 1:30:01
  blank slate, and I'll get like imagery
• 1:30:04
  like Yeah, like it hasn't even been
• 1:30:07
  created yet. Like they need to put more
• 1:30:09
  time. This really gets into manifesting.
• 1:30:11
  Like they haven't put their goals out
• 1:30:14
  and it's it's blank. Like there's
• 1:30:16
  nothing there. And I've found over the
• 1:30:18
  years that when I get that,
• 1:30:21
  that does seem to correlate with their
• 1:30:24
  perception of themselves where they'll
• 1:30:26
  be like, "Yeah, I have no idea what I
• 1:30:28
  want to do in the future. I don't know
• 1:30:30
  what I should be doing. I don't know
• 1:30:32
  what I want to be doing." That blank
• 1:30:35
  slate will correspond with where they're
• 1:30:37
  at even when I didn't know that's where
• 1:30:40
  they're at. Whereas like people that do
• 1:30:43
  have more of
• 1:30:45
  more
• 1:30:46
  well-defined goals or they've really
• 1:30:48
  spent time with it, like it does seem to
• 1:30:50
  be like there's more there. But still
• 1:30:53
  like where you said that if it's
• 1:30:55
  something that's going to happen very
• 1:30:57
  soon, it just seems to be more
• 1:30:59
  solidified
• 1:31:01
  a lot of times. And I think that both
• 1:31:05
  I talked to a lot of psychics who read
• 1:31:07
  people and then also remote viewers. You
• 1:31:09
  know, there there's different remote
• 1:31:11
  viewing researchers that are really
• 1:31:14
  trying to to do tests on that. And while
• 1:31:17
  there's not hard data on it, there's
• 1:31:20
  anecdotal that if an event is going to
• 1:31:24
  happen soon or if it's going to be
• 1:31:26
  really definitive, like a football game
• 1:31:30
  where one team is going to really win
• 1:31:34
  big, they're going to have a lot more
• 1:31:35
  points than the other team, then and
• 1:31:38
  that's very clear like from the start of
• 1:31:40
  the game, that tends to be easier to
• 1:31:43
  predict than if the teams are much
• 1:31:46
  closer or maybe they were in a tie up
• 1:31:49
  until the very end, then that seems
• 1:31:51
  harder to predict. So, that's
• 1:31:53
  interesting that you've noticed
• 1:31:57
  some of that yourself.
• 1:31:59
  >> I have interviewed a gentleman Christian
• 1:32:03
  Sundberg who recalls his pre-birth
• 1:32:05
  memories and he talks about how he
• 1:32:08
  recalls being fitted for the veil that
• 1:32:11
  like the the veil between seemingly this
• 1:32:13
  world and the other world that can
• 1:32:14
  impact our awareness of that world or
• 1:32:17
  memories.
• 1:32:19
  And he said he was shown a probability
• 1:32:21
  tree of if you take this make this
• 1:32:23
  decision or this path
• 1:32:25
  then this is likely to happen and if you
• 1:32:27
  do this this this is likely to happen
• 1:32:29
  and it was all these different
• 1:32:30
  possibilities.
• 1:32:32
  And
• 1:32:34
  at this point I look at intuition as
• 1:32:38
  possibly
• 1:32:41
  the best path for that individual and
• 1:32:44
  that the more that we can connect with
• 1:32:46
  our own souls or inner guidance or inner
• 1:32:49
  knowing that
• 1:32:51
  we're going to
• 1:32:54
  I don't know always have an easier time
• 1:32:56
  but have more meaning and purpose and
• 1:32:57
  joy and love in our lives and maybe
• 1:33:00
  connect more. I'm also a fan of
• 1:33:02
  astrology connect more with our uh core
• 1:33:06
  meaning and purpose and also our mission
• 1:33:08
  in life. And and so I I think that
• 1:33:12
  that's a nice way to look at how we can
• 1:33:15
  receive information or connect with
• 1:33:16
  ourselves to have
• 1:33:19
  hopefully a smoother ride in life.
• 1:33:22
  >> That's really cool.
• 1:33:24
  Well, have you ever had a sense that
• 1:33:26
  something was going to happen in your
• 1:33:28
  life
• 1:33:30
  but maybe it wasn't a positive thing and
• 1:33:33
  you tried to prevent it but couldn't.
• 1:33:37
  Have you ever had that happen?
• 1:33:40
  >> Well, uh people dying in my life.
• 1:33:43
  >> [laughter]
• 1:33:44
  >> Um
• 1:33:46
  yes, that would probably take the cake.
• 1:33:48
  Yeah.
• 1:33:50
  Not ready to let a loved one go.
• 1:33:54
  >> But but you just intuitively
• 1:33:56
  knew that they were going to
• 1:33:59
  >> Well, sometimes there's signs depending
• 1:34:01
  on a person's health or age.
• 1:34:05
  But just like I think about
• 1:34:07
  some close loved ones where
• 1:34:11
  maybe they had they definitely had some
• 1:34:12
  health
• 1:34:14
  issues going on, but I could sense when
• 1:34:16
  things were turning and that it was
• 1:34:18
  imminent.
• 1:34:20
  Also, with working in the hospital, I
• 1:34:23
  worked in all the units and ICUs and I
• 1:34:26
  could go in and I got a sense of
• 1:34:30
  how likely a person was to stay
• 1:34:33
  in this earthly realm or if they were on
• 1:34:34
  the fence, kind of trying to decide if
• 1:34:36
  they were going to stay or go or
• 1:34:38
  transition.
• 1:34:39
  So, I suppose other people making
• 1:34:41
  decisions that that maybe aren't always
• 1:34:43
  the best for them, but again, that's
• 1:34:46
  that's their choice.
• 1:34:48
  >> Yeah, I've I've had several times
• 1:34:52
  where I knew something was going to
• 1:34:54
  happen and I tried to stop it, but
• 1:34:57
  couldn't.
• 1:34:58
  Like the first time I was in a
• 1:35:00
  relationship with this guy Michael years
• 1:35:03
  ago. It was his birthday and we had a
• 1:35:06
  beautiful day planned, I thought.
• 1:35:10
  I thought everything was going to be
• 1:35:11
  fine and then out of nowhere, I had this
• 1:35:13
  knowingness that there was going to be
• 1:35:15
  like some kind of big blow up and and he
• 1:35:19
  was going to get really mad. And this
• 1:35:21
  made no sense because, you know, we woke
• 1:35:24
  up really happy and everything just
• 1:35:27
  seemed fine and like I was kind of on
• 1:35:29
  edge, but I was being extra careful to,
• 1:35:32
  you know, be nice and not have any
• 1:35:35
  arguments or anything. But then, it
• 1:35:38
  turned out like I guess I didn't plan
• 1:35:42
  enough for his birthday. Like I thought
• 1:35:44
  we go bowling and have fun, but he had
• 1:35:47
  like spent a lot of money on my birthday
• 1:35:49
  and I didn't like do that for his. And
• 1:35:52
  so like about 6 hours later he just like
• 1:35:55
  exploded,
• 1:35:56
  and it was like this horrible blow up
• 1:35:58
  and we broke up like soon after. And so
• 1:36:02
  that but I remember like I I just knew
• 1:36:06
  this was going to happen, and so I tried
• 1:36:08
  to prevent it but couldn't. And another
• 1:36:10
  time I woke up one morning, this was
• 1:36:13
  several years ago, and I heard this
• 1:36:16
  voice in my head that said
• 1:36:20
  April 5th. It was either April 5th or
• 1:36:23
  May 5th, but like I I heard I knew it at
• 1:36:25
  the time. And so it was like April 5th.
• 1:36:28
  And and then there were some other
• 1:36:30
  things that came in with it that made me
• 1:36:33
  Oh, I saw like trees falling down and
• 1:36:37
  like it seemed like something really bad
• 1:36:38
  was going to happen. And as it turned
• 1:36:42
  out
• 1:36:43
  well, two things. I As the day This was
• 1:36:46
  like a month before the day approached
• 1:36:48
  and like every single day I was trying
• 1:36:51
  to get more information and getting
• 1:36:53
  really nervous about it. And as
• 1:36:56
  the day approached I
• 1:36:59
  said to my son and partner, I was like,
• 1:37:03
  "You guys like I don't want you to go
• 1:37:05
  anywhere today. Like I I just get this
• 1:37:08
  sense that like I'm going to somehow
• 1:37:10
  lose someone like really close to me and
• 1:37:13
  you guys aren't allowed to go anywhere
• 1:37:15
  today. Something really bad is going to
• 1:37:17
  happen." But we woke up and it was a
• 1:37:19
  beautiful day and they didn't listen to
• 1:37:21
  me like they drove to the beach. And as
• 1:37:24
  it turned out there were terrible
• 1:37:27
  tornadoes
• 1:37:29
  in another part of the country with like
• 1:37:31
  massive devastation in other places. So
• 1:37:35
  that the trees blowing down and stuff,
• 1:37:37
  that didn't happen to us. It happened
• 1:37:39
  somewhere else though. But what did
• 1:37:42
  happen to us was while they were out, I
• 1:37:45
  was like so caught up in like oh my
• 1:37:48
  gosh, what's going to be happening today
• 1:37:50
  that um I lost track of our dog. We had
• 1:37:54
  a Siberian Husky and she got out and I
• 1:37:58
  wasn't even thinking about her cuz I was
• 1:37:59
  all wrapped up in this. And as it turned
• 1:38:02
  out, she went missing and she was gone
• 1:38:05
  for 3 months after that. Now, we did
• 1:38:08
  eventually get her back. That's like a
• 1:38:10
  whole other story cuz
• 1:38:12
  myself and all these people had to use
• 1:38:14
  our psychic abilities to try to see
• 1:38:16
  where she was and who she was with. And
• 1:38:18
  it turned out she got out. A woman found
• 1:38:21
  her, kept her for herself for 3 months
• 1:38:24
  until I got like the call that she was
• 1:38:27
  ready to give her back. And it turned
• 1:38:29
  out like she had horses in this big
• 1:38:31
  property where where um my dog Artemis
• 1:38:34
  would run with the horses and we had
• 1:38:36
  seen all that. We just There were too
• 1:38:38
  many other properties with horses
• 1:38:40
  though, so we couldn't like find the
• 1:38:43
  exact one. But we got all these details
• 1:38:45
  correct. But anyway, going back to this
• 1:38:48
  whole big saga with me being afraid I
• 1:38:51
  was going to lose a family member that
• 1:38:53
  day, I did lose one, but it wasn't who I
• 1:38:56
  thought it was. And the gist of this not
• 1:38:59
  so um happy story is that I couldn't
• 1:39:03
  stop it. You know, so that's I I I like
• 1:39:07
  to take a realistic approach with
• 1:39:10
  you know, the topic of like seeing into
• 1:39:12
  the future. Like yes, there's some
• 1:39:15
  things we could do to emotionally
• 1:39:16
  prepare ourselves, but it seems like we
• 1:39:19
  can't always stop it. And also sometimes
• 1:39:22
  we misinterpret it, you know, cuz just
• 1:39:24
  like any psychic information, we'll get
• 1:39:27
  bits and pieces, but we're not always
• 1:39:29
  getting the whole story.
• 1:39:32
  What What are your thoughts on that?
• 1:39:34
  >> Yeah, I I know you have shared that
• 1:39:36
  story with me privately and I'm so glad
• 1:39:39
  that you were able to get your dog back
• 1:39:41
  and how that was just so
• 1:39:45
  horrible and sad what happened with that
• 1:39:47
  situation and and I I wonder if there
• 1:39:51
  was more insight you had about
• 1:39:54
  um
• 1:39:56
  all that occurred after which I imagine
• 1:39:58
  you do.
• 1:39:59
  When you first asked the question, I my
• 1:40:01
  first response was sharing about loved
• 1:40:03
  ones. I just want to briefly share that
• 1:40:06
  I recall having a dream about a horrible
• 1:40:08
  flood and
• 1:40:11
  there was trees and people and it was a
• 1:40:14
  tsunami that happened about 20 years ago
• 1:40:18
  and
• 1:40:19
  it happened just a couple days after I'd
• 1:40:20
  had my dream, but I remember waking up
• 1:40:22
  and thinking, why am I having this
• 1:40:23
  dream? Then I remember thinking, well,
• 1:40:25
  what am I to do with this? And I know
• 1:40:27
  that that's happened to countless
• 1:40:29
  people. I know it happened with 9/11 and
• 1:40:31
  many other events where people have
• 1:40:33
  precognitive information
• 1:40:36
  and
• 1:40:37
  maybe it's a warning system.
• 1:40:40
  I suppose if I'd meditated more, I was
• 1:40:42
  just newly developing my intuition at
• 1:40:44
  that time, maybe I would have gotten
• 1:40:45
  more information.
• 1:40:47
  Not that I could have stopped it, but
• 1:40:49
  there was something there maybe.
• 1:40:52
  >> Well, that's such a good question. Why
• 1:40:54
  are we getting this information? And
• 1:40:59
  we're reading too much into it and
• 1:41:01
  definitely
• 1:41:03
  there's a lot of people who really
• 1:41:05
  struggle with the sense of
• 1:41:06
  responsibility, especially kids. I know
• 1:41:09
  that it's very traumatizing for little
• 1:41:11
  kids because they don't know the
• 1:41:13
  difference between
• 1:41:16
  causality and perception. So, they have
• 1:41:20
  a dream of someone dying and they think
• 1:41:22
  they were responsible. Like that's on
• 1:41:24
  the extreme end of things, but then the
• 1:41:26
  next step is is oh, I'm having this
• 1:41:30
  information. What do I do with it? And
• 1:41:33
  you know, me in some cases like Pam
• 1:41:35
  Coronado, I interviewed her for New
• 1:41:38
  Thinking Allowed and that was how she
• 1:41:40
  first got into all of these topics and
• 1:41:43
  she did have a dream about a murder in
• 1:41:48
  her neighborhood and she did act on it
• 1:41:51
  and got in touch with law enforcement
• 1:41:54
  and that was useful to the case. So, you
• 1:41:57
  know, sometimes it is very useful, but
• 1:41:59
  then if information is just like
• 1:42:02
  non-local and it just kind of flows back
• 1:42:05
  and forth in time, it may have no other
• 1:42:09
  meaning that we're dreaming about it or
• 1:42:12
  having a flash of it than it does if you
• 1:42:15
  happen to walk by your TV set and you're
• 1:42:17
  seeing some kind of news. You know, just
• 1:42:20
  because I turn on the news and see
• 1:42:23
  a topic that doesn't mean I'm
• 1:42:24
  responsible for it or I have to now take
• 1:42:27
  any action and same thing if I see news
• 1:42:30
  in my head that hasn't happened yet. You
• 1:42:33
  know, there there's always like I think
• 1:42:35
  people do put too much meaning on it a
• 1:42:38
  lot of times and it's just know we're
• 1:42:40
  picking up signals. You know, I know for
• 1:42:43
  a fact that we pick up on
• 1:42:46
  we pick up on things telepathically, you
• 1:42:49
  know, and sometimes we're hearing our
• 1:42:52
  spouse's thoughts as he's lying asleep
• 1:42:55
  next to us. Sometimes it's our friend
• 1:42:57
  across the world or sometimes it's just
• 1:42:59
  like random chatter and if a person goes
• 1:43:04
  and takes any little piece of random
• 1:43:06
  chatter or any flash as you know,
• 1:43:10
  having special meaning for them, I think
• 1:43:13
  they're going to be really misguided.
• 1:43:16
  Sometimes it is special, a special
• 1:43:18
  message for them, but a lot of times
• 1:43:20
  it's just random noise or sometimes it
• 1:43:23
  might even be from some entity out there
• 1:43:26
  that doesn't isn't really very well
• 1:43:28
  meaning and that was
• 1:43:30
  one thing I wanted to talk to you about
• 1:43:32
  is you know, have you encountered that
• 1:43:34
  where there's just like information
• 1:43:37
  coming through the airwaves and it may
• 1:43:39
  be abusive, it may be negative or nasty
• 1:43:43
  and it's it's not a special message for
• 1:43:46
  someone, it's just we happen to like
• 1:43:48
  almost tune into a channel of people who
• 1:43:51
  are not speaking all that nicely to each
• 1:43:55
  other or to us and not everything we
• 1:43:58
  hear is like a message from God or our
• 1:44:01
  guides. Like we have to be discerning
• 1:44:03
  and then how how do we know, you know,
• 1:44:07
  how to handle it? What are your thoughts
• 1:44:09
  on that?
• 1:44:11
  >> Well, I just think it goes back to the
• 1:44:12
  beginning of the conversation where I
• 1:44:13
  was sharing about how I was trained and
• 1:44:15
  I teach
• 1:44:17
  discernment like you mentioned when we
• 1:44:19
  receive information
• 1:44:21
  if we're not working professionally or
• 1:44:23
  even if we are, but if we're going about
• 1:44:25
  our daily activities and we see or hear
• 1:44:27
  something that doesn't seem to be from
• 1:44:29
  us or we're not sure, is to tune into is
• 1:44:32
  this mine? Is this somebody else's? Why
• 1:44:34
  am I receiving this information? Is
• 1:44:36
  there anything I'm to do with this
• 1:44:38
  information?
• 1:44:39
  >> Almost like we witness tests and we
• 1:44:42
  having discernment and yes, all of that
• 1:44:44
  is out there.
• 1:44:46
  It's all out there and absolutely I have
• 1:44:49
  worked with people where they it's rare
• 1:44:51
  in my experience where they have some
• 1:44:53
  type of uh
• 1:44:56
  sometimes it's benevolent, sometimes
• 1:44:57
  malevolent entity attachments or thought
• 1:45:01
  forms that are really serving them very
• 1:45:03
  poorly in their lives and usually like
• 1:45:06
  Robert Falconer who's been a guest on
• 1:45:08
  New Thinking Allowed
• 1:45:10
  who's a I believe a lead internal family
• 1:45:13
  systems trainer
• 1:45:15
  talks about how
• 1:45:18
  if our
• 1:45:20
  own thoughts and emotions
• 1:45:23
  are troubled, we're more likely to
• 1:45:25
  perceive things as troubling or to
• 1:45:29
  seemingly attract troubling other
• 1:45:34
  energies if you will. And that the best
• 1:45:37
  line of defense is really to
• 1:45:41
  be a more loving kind person and how do
• 1:45:43
  you do that if you have unresolved
• 1:45:45
  grief, trauma, or
• 1:45:48
  you are angry with somebody and you're
• 1:45:50
  holding
• 1:45:51
  resentment to to get support or
• 1:45:55
  professional help or do what you
• 1:45:57
  what is necessary for you to heal from
• 1:45:59
  that and then you're less likely to
• 1:46:05
  attract or be in those realms that are
• 1:46:08
  unpleasant. Now, I understand that
• 1:46:11
  there's many people in the world making
• 1:46:12
  choices that we don't have a lot of sway
• 1:46:15
  over, but we can
• 1:46:18
  show up as our best selves and
• 1:46:22
  and work within our own consciousness
• 1:46:23
  because collectively the more that we do
• 1:46:25
  that, we're going to serve
• 1:46:28
  the collective
• 1:46:30
  being that we we all really seem to be.
• 1:46:34
  >> See, recently I've been having more and
• 1:46:37
  more clients come who
• 1:46:40
  feel like they are being stalked and
• 1:46:43
  that they're being tormented by
• 1:46:46
  different voices, different
• 1:46:50
  what they believe to be entities. And
• 1:46:53
  when somebody approaches me with
• 1:46:55
  something like that, you know, I'm
• 1:46:58
  always like, "Okay, we don't know what's
• 1:47:00
  going on. It could be
• 1:47:02
  it could be hallucinating, it could be a
• 1:47:04
  mental health issue, or it could be an
• 1:47:07
  entity, or something in or could be
• 1:47:10
  telepathy from someone in their house
• 1:47:12
  who has negative thoughts. So, we don't
• 1:47:16
  know until we go in or until I go in and
• 1:47:19
  take a look. And on occasion, well,
• 1:47:24
  occasionally I didn't know they were
• 1:47:25
  struggling with any of this and it came
• 1:47:27
  out during the reading because I heard
• 1:47:29
  the same things that they were hearing
• 1:47:32
  and felt the same things. At other times
• 1:47:34
  I wasn't sure, but by the end of the
• 1:47:37
  reading
• 1:47:38
  some like maybe, you know, halfway
• 1:47:41
  through suddenly I'm hearing someone
• 1:47:44
  saying very specific things that are,
• 1:47:47
  you know, very unpleasant or I'm seeing
• 1:47:49
  images that the person then is like,
• 1:47:52
  that is exactly what they have been
• 1:47:54
  telling me or that's exactly what they
• 1:47:57
  look like. And then even I have
• 1:48:01
  a friend who she's actually now worked
• 1:48:04
  through a lot of this and she's writing
• 1:48:06
  a book on it, but
• 1:48:09
  we'll sometimes travel together with
• 1:48:12
  other clairvoyant friends. And so this
• 1:48:15
  one friend who well, she she was a
• 1:48:18
  client and then a student and now our
• 1:48:19
  friend. So she was experiencing a lot of
• 1:48:22
  this and she was confused because
• 1:48:24
  sometimes the entities were saying nasty
• 1:48:27
  things to her, but at other times they
• 1:48:29
  were giving her information about the
• 1:48:30
  future that was very correct. She was in
• 1:48:33
  my remote viewing class and one day she
• 1:48:36
  came to class and she said, "Yeah, I I
• 1:48:40
  didn't get enough sleep last night so I
• 1:48:43
  didn't do the homework.
• 1:48:45
  But I had this dream and I drew a
• 1:48:47
  picture for my dream and she showed me
• 1:48:50
  the dream picture and it was identical
• 1:48:53
  to the target picture except it was
• 1:48:56
  upside down. So like the target was a
• 1:48:59
  ship and she drew this
• 1:49:02
  very incredibly detailed picture of the
• 1:49:05
  ship, but it was upside down and the one
• 1:49:08
  of the entities had given it to her. So
• 1:49:10
  she was really struggling with like does
• 1:49:13
  this is this entity helpful or is it
• 1:49:16
  not? And when I first worked with her,
• 1:49:20
  she was one of the people where as I was
• 1:49:22
  reading her, I started getting these
• 1:49:24
  waves of like energy through my body and
• 1:49:27
  these intensive vibrations that she said
• 1:49:30
  she would feel like when they were
• 1:49:32
  communicating with her. Well, anyway, we
• 1:49:35
  fast-forward a couple years, we're at
• 1:49:37
  this Airbnb with um a couple other
• 1:49:40
  friends. And as I'm waking up, she's in
• 1:49:43
  the room next to me. As I'm waking up, I
• 1:49:45
  see an image in a mirror of a guy like
• 1:49:48
  he was a very muscular guy, but he
• 1:49:52
  didn't have any clothes on his upper
• 1:49:54
  body and his back was turned to me. And
• 1:49:58
  then I could just see his face a little
• 1:49:59
  bit, his eyes in the mirror and they
• 1:50:01
  look very creepy. Well, my our mutual
• 1:50:05
  friend comes out of her room
• 1:50:07
  a little bit later and she tells me that
• 1:50:11
  she kept all all night long seeing an
• 1:50:14
  image of a half-naked guy with his back
• 1:50:17
  towards her looking into a mirror. And
• 1:50:19
  it turns out that that's a frequent
• 1:50:22
  image that our friend who has these
• 1:50:24
  entities sees as well. So, three of us
• 1:50:28
  were confirming the same exact images.
• 1:50:31
  So, I've been having this where
• 1:50:34
  clients come to me and so there's this
• 1:50:38
  confirmation that I'm getting as well
• 1:50:40
  that, you know, yeah, something's going
• 1:50:42
  on here. And there's some
• 1:50:44
  characteristics like the the telepathy,
• 1:50:48
  the what they're hearing in their head
• 1:50:50
  is so loud. And the same thing with me,
• 1:50:52
  like when I've heard these entities,
• 1:50:54
  it's so loud. It's so clear.
• 1:50:58
  They show very clear images and there's
• 1:51:00
  also sensations and feelings that come
• 1:51:03
  with it. And the other thing that I'll
• 1:51:06
  say and then I want to hear what you
• 1:51:08
  think of this. After I I with these
• 1:51:10
  people, I'll have hitchhiker effects for
• 1:51:13
  the next couple days, but what I do is
• 1:51:16
  when I'm hearing them on my own, I will
• 1:51:20
  just say to them, I'm not going to
• 1:51:22
  engage. Like I refuse to engage. You
• 1:51:25
  guys have to get out of here. I don't
• 1:51:27
  care who you are. I'm not going to
• 1:51:29
  explore this any further. If I keep
• 1:51:31
  trying to explore it, then then they
• 1:51:34
  stick around. But if I just say, okay,
• 1:51:37
  like I am not going to engage, you got
• 1:51:39
  to get out of here and I picture a door
• 1:51:41
  and see them leaving, then then we're
• 1:51:44
  okay. And for my clients who are able to
• 1:51:47
  do that and just say, you know, even if
• 1:51:49
  you're giving me some helpful psychic
• 1:51:51
  information, I'm not engaging with you.
• 1:51:53
  I'm not going to listen. Like once these
• 1:51:56
  entities know you're not going to listen
• 1:51:58
  to them, they seem to back off. But
• 1:52:00
  sometimes clients have a hard time doing
• 1:52:02
  that because they're also excited that
• 1:52:05
  they're getting like this psychic
• 1:52:07
  information. So, what are your thoughts
• 1:52:10
  on all that and have you experienced
• 1:52:12
  similar things?
• 1:52:14
  >> There is a whole
• 1:52:17
  taxonomy of
• 1:52:20
  entities or perceptions out there.
• 1:52:23
  Um I honestly think it could be a whole
• 1:52:26
  other conversation. I think it's a a
• 1:52:28
  very um
• 1:52:30
  deep topic and I I know we've been
• 1:52:33
  talking for a while.
• 1:52:35
  I
• 1:52:36
  I think it's in the realm could be in
• 1:52:38
  the realm of something called spirit
• 1:52:40
  release meant therapy
• 1:52:42
  that
• 1:52:43
  people have written books on. It's
• 1:52:45
  something that that like I said, I've
• 1:52:47
  I've definitely come
• 1:52:49
  in contact with myself and I think that
• 1:52:52
  there are certain ways that people can
• 1:52:55
  interact with it.
• 1:52:56
  And
• 1:52:58
  and again, I go back to that discernment
• 1:53:01
  piece of
• 1:53:02
  who are you? What is this information?
• 1:53:04
  Why are you here? What do you want? Am I
• 1:53:06
  to do anything with this?
• 1:53:09
  In my experience, I'll just briefly
• 1:53:10
  share one one story with a client where
• 1:53:13
  they thought they had an entity
• 1:53:14
  attachment
• 1:53:16
  that was harmful.
• 1:53:18
  And when we interacted with it, it was
• 1:53:22
  actually a loving presence that was
• 1:53:25
  trying to get their attention and bring
• 1:53:26
  them information.
• 1:53:28
  So, I think that sometimes I go back to
• 1:53:30
  Robert Falconer. I think
• 1:53:32
  I think it really is a discernment of of
• 1:53:36
  what is this being?
• 1:53:38
  Am I seeing it clearly?
• 1:53:41
  Do I have a filter of my own psychology
• 1:53:43
  that's overlaying with what's happening
• 1:53:45
  here that's impacting what I'm
• 1:53:47
  perceiving? Maybe, maybe not.
• 1:53:49
  And why am I Why is this coming to me?
• 1:53:53
  And in this case with this person, there
• 1:53:55
  was information that was helpful for
• 1:53:57
  them.
• 1:53:59
  I'm trained to work with love and light.
• 1:54:02
  And so, I have found that if
• 1:54:07
  if I am in a place of fear with a
• 1:54:11
  particular entity, that it just
• 1:54:14
  actually, like you were talking about,
• 1:54:16
  if you give it attention, it just stays
• 1:54:17
  there or it grows or expands if it's
• 1:54:20
  malevolent or seemingly malevolent. And
• 1:54:24
  if we are neutral or curious,
• 1:54:28
  detached observers, and are And that's
• 1:54:31
  the That's actually one of the
• 1:54:32
  fundamental ways that we can work with
• 1:54:34
  and cultivate our intuition is in
• 1:54:36
  addition to quieting the mind, is
• 1:54:38
  becoming a neutral observer so that you
• 1:54:40
  can really discern on on what you're
• 1:54:42
  experiencing.
• 1:54:45
  Then we're going to see more clearly,
• 1:54:47
  which is what the claires mean. Claire
• 1:54:49
  audience, claire sentience, it means
• 1:54:51
  clear seeing. It's not just visual, but
• 1:54:53
  clear perception. We're clear channels.
• 1:54:55
  We're using ourselves, our bodies,
• 1:54:57
  minds, hearts, souls as an instrument of
• 1:55:01
  clarity.
• 1:55:02
  And then we can choose what what to do
• 1:55:04
  with that. And in my experience, the few
• 1:55:08
  times that there have been, some people
• 1:55:10
  say dark forces,
• 1:55:12
  I I feel I've been quite confident with
• 1:55:15
  it and been able to release it with love
• 1:55:17
  and light. And in my experience, now
• 1:55:19
  people might have different experiences,
• 1:55:21
  but in my experience,
• 1:55:23
  the entity is always looking for love.
• 1:55:25
  That has been my experience.
• 1:55:28
  Some can say, "Oh, they're wanting to
• 1:55:30
  harm me. They're
• 1:55:32
  But then I go back to Well, how is your
• 1:55:35
  psychology? How is your mind? How are
• 1:55:37
  your emotions?" And for some people,
• 1:55:41
  it's also
• 1:55:43
  um I can think of several stories, and
• 1:55:45
  again, I think this is deserves more
• 1:55:47
  time,
• 1:55:48
  that that they had something happening
• 1:55:50
  in their bedroom at night. Well, for
• 1:55:52
  them, it was an opportunity for them to
• 1:55:55
  develop their spiritual intuitive gifts
• 1:55:59
  in that case. Cuz intuition, you know,
• 1:56:00
  depending on a person's belief, can
• 1:56:02
  certainly just be part of psychology. It
• 1:56:04
  can also be
• 1:56:05
  in the in the spiritual, if you will,
• 1:56:08
  depending on how a person frames that.
• 1:56:11
  And they were able to engage in some
• 1:56:12
  practices and develop some abilities,
• 1:56:15
  and then that stopped occurring.
• 1:56:17
  >> Yeah.
• 1:56:18
  >> Look, there's a lot more to it because,
• 1:56:20
  you know, we talk we can there's haunt,
• 1:56:21
  you know, people talk about hauntings.
• 1:56:23
  There's
• 1:56:24
  There's a whole world there. And And
• 1:56:27
  again, it's a case-by-case situation. I
• 1:56:29
  don't want to just put a blanket over
• 1:56:31
  any of this.
• 1:56:33
  >> Yeah, that's such a good point because I
• 1:56:36
  always tell my students, you know, if
• 1:56:39
  your very best friend, who you love so
• 1:56:42
  much, unexpectedly showed up in your
• 1:56:45
  room at night and was tickling your feet
• 1:56:48
  or something, you would be
• 1:56:50
  really freaked out. You know, it's not
• 1:56:52
  that they're someone bad that's trying
• 1:56:55
  to hurt you, but anything shows up when
• 1:56:57
  you don't expect it and
• 1:56:59
  don't know what you're encountering
• 1:57:02
  can seem scarier or shocking.
• 1:57:06
  But through meditation and then also
• 1:57:08
  doing the intuitive work we do where we
• 1:57:10
  were talking about that the other day
• 1:57:12
  with Geoff even like when we're
• 1:57:13
  interviewing someone or when we're
• 1:57:15
  playing music or when we're doing
• 1:57:17
  readings, we have to be really really
• 1:57:19
  focused and we're learning how to hold
• 1:57:22
  some thoughts in our minds and to not
• 1:57:25
  let other thoughts in. We're being very
• 1:57:27
  focused. And a lot of people, that's
• 1:57:30
  something they're
• 1:57:31
  maybe none of us are born with. I think
• 1:57:33
  some people maybe just may have you
• 1:57:36
  know, if they just grew up with quiet
• 1:57:38
  parents or in a quiet place, maybe they
• 1:57:42
  have less chatter than other people. But
• 1:57:45
  people are bombarded with chatter all
• 1:57:48
  the time and you're not going to be able
• 1:57:50
  to tell the difference between your own
• 1:57:52
  thoughts and other thoughts. You know,
• 1:57:55
  if you tend to have negative self-talk,
• 1:57:58
  self-criticisms,
• 1:58:00
  how would you know if there's another
• 1:58:02
  party coming in? May maybe those
• 1:58:05
  criticisms are just the voices of the
• 1:58:07
  people you grew up with or in your
• 1:58:09
  household, but until you get to a
• 1:58:12
  baseline of clarity, you're not going to
• 1:58:14
  be able to tell what's going on. So
• 1:58:17
  that's the the very first start. And
• 1:58:20
  then if you suddenly get an intrusive
• 1:58:22
  thought or even with your mood, you
• 1:58:25
  know, if you tend to be pretty even keel
• 1:58:27
  and then suddenly you just have this
• 1:58:30
  feeling like, "Oh my god, I'm so
• 1:58:31
  depressed. I want to kill myself." It's
• 1:58:34
  like, "Okay, where did that come from?"
• 1:58:36
  You know, that's pretty intense. That's
• 1:58:39
  different than you know, someone who's
• 1:58:41
  always having those thoughts. So getting
• 1:58:43
  to that baseline with all these
• 1:58:45
  wonderful practices that we have and you
• 1:58:48
  know, so many people talk about on New
• 1:58:50
  Thinking Allowed,
• 1:58:52
  that's going to, you know, help people
• 1:58:53
  get to the right state of mind to then
• 1:58:56
  be able to discern these things.
• 1:59:00
  Well, thank you so much. I know this has
• 1:59:03
  been a long conversation.
• 1:59:06
  >> It's been my pleasure, Deborah.
• 1:59:08
  >> And there's so much more we could talk
• 1:59:10
  about, so maybe we could come back and
• 1:59:13
  see what comments people have who
• 1:59:16
  watched the interview and find out what
• 1:59:19
  else people would like to know about
• 1:59:21
  with these topics and then maybe we can
• 1:59:23
  address some of those in another
• 1:59:25
  interview down the line.
• 1:59:28
  >> I would be very happy to do that.
• 1:59:32
  >> [music]
• 1:59:39
  [music]
• 1:59:52
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