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Transcript

Great Leaders Collaborate Rather Than Command · Business for Humans

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Welcome to Business for Humans. I'm Jamie Gennaro, business coach,
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consultant, and founder of Practica Consulting.
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Today, I dive into leadership transformation. I talk through how collaboration,
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trust, and transparency can create stronger, more motivated teams and better
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workplace outcomes. Enjoy.
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Music.
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Leaders today i'm talking to leaders and more specifically those of you who
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really want to hone in your leadership skills there are some leaders who would
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never listen to this podcast who would never sign up for a leadership training.
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And it's unfortunate because there are a lot of people out there who are in
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management positions who are not committed to elevating or developing,
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quite frankly, those skills.
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So they just do all the things required in their job description,
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but they don't develop that key thing that's so important as a manager,
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which is the way you work with your team and the way you sort of harness their
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potential and help them elevate.
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So that work doesn't get done for a lot of traditional leaders.
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And it, quite frankly, just never will.
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So those of you that are interested in developing those skills,
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we need to get you into those positions.
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We need to get the old dudes out and we need to get you in there to start to
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shape and shift the way we lead,
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the way we lead teams, because there are just some people who are too far gone
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and they will not be receptive to change.
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I was working with a client recently doing executive coaching and I started
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coaching other members of her team and I suggested,
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well, maybe now is an opportunity for us to pitch in to your level,
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like the supervisors above your team so we could do some training because obviously
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everybody's sort of struggling with the same issues and I can help support you all,
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but maybe we need to make some impact higher up the food chain.
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And she just started laughing.
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She was like, it's all old white stuff.
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Europeans. Let's just say that. And she's like, they have zero interest in developing
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leadership skills. That is not their priority.
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Their priority is making money, period.
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So that's just where we're at. So we need to do the work and we need to get
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those people out so that we can start reshaping the workplace.
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So don't feel hopeless.
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Feel inspired because we need to get you in there and I'll help you get there.
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So I want to give you two examples of leadership styles and you're going to
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hear my bias as I describe them.
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So there's a style of leadership and I'm going to use the metaphor of a client
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when you're in a services or creative industry.
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So there are two types of clients and that's the metaphor for two types of leaders.
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I think it's just easy to explain it this way because it removes you from that
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leadership perspective.
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So you have a client and they are collaborative.
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They trust you and your team to provide the service that you've contracted to provide.
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They trust your team.
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They trust your expertise. They ask a lot of questions and they don't get involved
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in the part that doesn't involve them.
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So they stay involved until they know it's time for you to basically like take
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the ball and implement on the work.
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So early on in the project, they want to collaborate and brainstorm and help
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develop the strategy together so that you can take that work and implement it
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and that it's sort of a clean transition.
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And then they stay out of your way and they're interested and they're supportive
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and they sort of like check in at periodic times and they still ask questions,
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but they really trust you and they trust your expertise.
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When they ask those questions, they're coming from this place of,
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I'd like your specific input because I trust you and your experience and your
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knowledge and I want your specific perspective on this problem that we're trying to solve.
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But the nice thing about those projects are the fact that you get to sort of
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dream up the solutions in collaboration with them.
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The other type of client in services industries is the kind of client who just
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comes to you with the idea baked.
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They're like, we don't care if it's the best idea.
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We just need to get it out there. It should have launched yesterday.
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We don't have any time to mess around. you need to
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just take this idea and implement it whether you
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like it or not this is the direction we're moving in we
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need to go go go faster faster faster do the work get it done it's not fast
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enough and and they're judging every step of the way and they're micromanaging
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every step of the way so they want to be a part of the entire process and some
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clients even want to do some of the work,
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which is extremely awkward.
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And there's no trust established there.
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They're not ready to let go and let you do the work. They want to stay super,
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super, super hands-on and super involved.
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So you can see those two styles of leadership.
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So whether it's you working with a client and saying, oh, I love working with
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those types of clients and feeling really exhilarated by the work that comes
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from those types of clients.
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So if you're listening to this and you're an entrepreneur, those are the types
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of clients where you're going to do your best work.
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Right. Like it's just a very clear collaboration and respect and mutual trust.
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I trust you, client, to give me the reins and let me take it from here.
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And you trust me to do my best work based on my experience. But that initial
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phase is a very clear collaboration.
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And I think what leaders forget, because leaders are typically the ones kind
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of landing these clients, right?
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They might be the owner of the company landing the work.
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So are they bringing in the kind of clients that they love to work with?
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Or are they bringing in work because they're desperate?
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I think the outcome is going to be really different. But I think if we're using
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that metaphor and flipping it into leadership, like let's remember leaders,
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that if you like working that way with clients, your team likes working that way too.
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So if you are forcing an idea and telling your team you just need to implement
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on this idea without any collaboration,
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without any opportunity for them to give feedback on the solution or the approach
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or how you're planning to do the work,
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it's going to be really hard for them to motivate to implement on an idea that
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they may or may not agree with.
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So some leaders get really frustrated in that phase where they're like, I'm the boss.
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I don't feel heard. Nobody's listening to me.
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This is the best idea. We just need to go forward with it. Everybody just needs
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to line up and do what I say.
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And it just doesn't work. And what happens is these leaders just keep doing
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it that way over and over and over.
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And what I see, and what's really hard for me as an outsider who can't jump
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in and body block, which I used that metaphor yesterday,
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sometimes I just really want to get in there and body block the leader from
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the team. You're doing it wrong.
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But I think what's really hard about that is that you're not trusting your team.
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You're not leveraging their creativity.
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You're not putting them in a position where you have trust in them.
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So always, always, always the approach I recommend, and to me it feels so simple,
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but some leaders really have a hard time because I'll explain why afterwards.
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But this other approach of bring people in early in the process.
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Listen, right? Let all the ideas percolate and marinate.
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Don't feel committed to your idea. And I would say this is true for anyone coming
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to a brainstorm meeting.
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Don't come in going, I'm going to push my idea through at whatever cost.
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Come in with the idea that my idea is going to mix with all the ideas in the
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room and the idea we come out with collectively is going to be stronger than
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any one of our ideas, which is a truth.
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So bringing the team, if you are a leader trying to figure this out,
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always bring the team in sooner.
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Make it a collaborative problem-solving exercise.
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And I think it's true for everything. Like you have some business problem that you're trying to solve.
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Don't be so worried about holding it so close to the chest because you don't
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want to reveal things that should be secret things behind the curtain.
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I don't think that ever makes the company stronger or better.
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I think when you're transparent and open and honest about what's going on,
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it's a different kind of motivation for your team.
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I hear a lot of leaders say, I'm worried about morale.
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If they talk about this thing, it's going to deplete morale and people are going to get frustrated.
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And I feel the exact opposite.
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And from my experience, what I've seen is the more open I am,
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the more transparent, people aren't making up their own stories then.
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Then they're not like alluding to, oh, well, maybe this is happening and maybe
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this is happening, but we don't know.
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So we're going to make up ideas about what the thing could be.
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When you're open and honest with them, then they know exactly where they stand.
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They know where the business stands and they feel like they're a part of it.
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You're inviting them in to say, I trust you. I want your expertise.
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I want your brain on this.
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Maybe it's not the best thing in the world. Maybe revenue is down or we lost
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a client, but we can solve this together.
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That is a different kind of morale boost, honestly, than not saying anything
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and then people just wondering and making up stories or the opposite of just
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like, okay, there's a problem. I've solved it.
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And I just need you guys to go and implement.
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And I'm trying to rack my brain like, is there a time when that kind of leadership is effective?
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And I have to be honest, no. I don't think that you need to be 100% democratic all the time.
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I think if you go into a collaboration and you come out as the person with the
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most experience and you haven't seen the cracking of the code yet,
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that doesn't mean that you just take it from the team and then take the ball
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and you run with it and you solve it on your own.
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But I think what you do is you push, right?
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You push the team, you challenge them to think bigger, to think differently,
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to try some other things on.
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You're there to sort of push the envelope and push the boundaries on what's possible.
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Reignite, re-inspire. Don't just accept the first round of ideas if you don't
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think they're quite there, but also don't just take it and then solve it yourself.
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That's not the way forward.
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So this is like the number one thing if you're looking at elevating as a leader,
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the number one thing you can do. Bring the team in sooner.
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Be transparent about what all the problems are that need to be solved. Solve it as a team.
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And then work out how you're going to implement on that solve as a team.
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Put that plan together as a team.
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So that everybody's clear from the beginning of what the responsibilities are
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of everyone, who the owner is, roles and responsibilities.
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Just do all that setup up front. I always like to say measure twice and cut once.
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Put much more emphasis on the pre-work, the pre-production, the planning stage,
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getting everything ready. This is how I cook too.
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I hate cooking, but I figured out a method where if I just like do all the measurements
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and chop everything and get everything
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set up instead of like starting to cook and doing it on the fly,
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if I just like pre-prep all my stuff, I'm just way less stressed out about getting
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to the like final plated final product.
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I just get all that pre-work done so I don't have to improvise somewhere along the way where,
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oh, maybe I miscalculated or mismeasured or didn't get the stuff right from
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the beginning because I am a recipe follower all the way.
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I mean, I'm not when I'm just whipping something up because I believe in recycling
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and using leftovers and all of that.
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But so this is one of the most fundamental pieces of leadership because you are at the helm of,
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And you are ultimately responsible, but that doesn't mean you need to take it
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and that like you are the best person to solve the problem.
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You're not. I'm sorry, but like
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one person is never the best solution when you have a team to leverage.
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It's never the best case scenario to have one person solving a problem in silo.
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So even me as a slowpreneur, I would revel, like I really try to put myself in silo.
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Situations where I have a group, groupthink.
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I created a community with my clients where we can troubleshoot and brainstorm
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problems together because it's always better. It's always better.
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So bring the team in earlier, be transparent about what the problem is,
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even if that's a business problem, be transparent about it, and then work together
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to come up with a solution.
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And I will use an example that's not project-level, HR-level problems.
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So if there is a very tricky human resources issue, I want you to be transparent
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about it so you can talk with HR openly because legally you can talk with HR openly.
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That's still two brains rather than one. You might not be able to be 100% transparent
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with everyone, but I think it's still better to, let's say it's an issue with a staff member,
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who's maybe a more junior staff member, but you have a senior leadership team,
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rather than you going, oh, somehow it's my fault and I need to solve for this
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and I need to figure it out and it's just a one-on-one with HR,
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you can be vague with your leadership team and you can say, listen,
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there's, you know, you can be vague about the details, but like,
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I need your brains on something, right? We have this problem to solve.
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And in this case, it's a human resources issue, but we have a problem to solve.
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And of course, legally, you don't want to get into specifics when it's about
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a person, but I still think that being open and honest and transparent,
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like, Like, you know, I've been in a lot of positions where I was the mid-level manager for a team.
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And then I was reporting to the owner of the company. This has happened in multiple workplaces.
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And so what always happens is that that team is like frustrated with leadership.
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And so they bring those frustrations to me.
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And as a leader, you have to sort of take everything with a grain of salt.
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And as a coach I hear everything as a story like okay I'm hearing your story
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doesn't mean it's a fact I'm just listening to your story.
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But I think it's great to work with that person who has this problem in a way
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of like, I'd like to leverage your brain.
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We have a problem to solve here. Let's collaborate.
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Rather than like, I need to take this problem they've brought to me and I need to solve it.
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Or there's this problem they've brought to me, I believe every single word that they're saying.
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And then I need to just like go and fight the good fight towards the person
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who is the problem, quote unquote, right?
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Like we're not opening up that option of collaboration and problem solving as a group.
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So I don't want to get into the specifics of every single possible thing that
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could come up and how to address it.
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But I think with HR issues, it's always best to empower the person who's having
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the struggle to say, what's yours?
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What are you bringing to the table? And then let's collaborate openly about
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what are some ways that we can problem solve.
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And sometimes it makes sense to bring that other person in.
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So we're taking a problem that some people might sweep under the rug or hide
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from or put their head down and just try to ignore it.
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We're now making it a group think, a group effort to collaborate.
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And so the position of a leader is to encourage that collaboration.
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Not to feel the responsibility that like, oh, it's my company or it's my team.
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I need to solve for everything.
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That's my job. I need to solve, solve, solve. That's what people are expecting me to do.
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No, people are expecting you to lead.
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To find a workaround with them, right?
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For you to be like, hey guys, this is a perfect opportunity for us to get together,
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put our heads together and solve for this.
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So leading is taking action, but finding a way to bring the team back in,
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not to push them away or isolate yourself.
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With the problem or, you know, trying to solve the problem for them.
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I think parenting is a good example too, right?
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It's like, hey, there's an issue as a group, like as the parents and the kid,
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can we solve for this together?
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Like, do you have any ideas, kid?
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Like, you know, I don't, I'm not going to solve this for you.
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Like, we're in this together.
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Let's figure out a way to problem solve this. It's not like,
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I'm the parent. I need to fix it.
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I need to find all the solutions. That's my job. No.
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Let's bring the whole family in on it. This is a problem to solve.
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Let's get more heads on it.
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I trust you guys. I don't care how old you are. I trust you to be creative and
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come up with creative solutions for this problem.
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It's just so much more open-ended, and there's so much less guilt and shame and worry.
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It's like, hey, I'm a business owner. We're down revenue.
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It's my problem to solve. I'm stressed out. I'm staying up all night.
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It's like, hey, no, you have a whole team. Well, not in all cases.
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I don't have a whole team. I would love to have a whole team.
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But if you do, take advantage of the fact that you have these amazing brains
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at your disposal to help problem solve. This is the beauty.
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So to recap, early in the project, stay open, open communication,
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transparency, and collaborative problem solving.
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It's just going to keep your team so much more motivated and focused.
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So very briefly, I want to touch on why leaders lean on the other style,
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on the style of, it's my job, it's my responsibility, I need to fix it,
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I shouldn't bring anyone else into this, they expect me to fix it.
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You probably know where this is going.
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That's all insecurity. Because there's this part of people who are fundamentally
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insecure, they're like, if I bring the solution forward, I get to own that solution.
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And if the solution works, I get my security back.
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I get that recognition. I get people seeing my effort and my abilities.
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And I need that pat on the back to feel secure.
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When you don't have any issues with confidence and security,
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you're not tied to the idea being yours.
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And even if you bring the idea, I mean, this happens to me all the time.
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Even if you bring the idea and you're the first seed of that idea and you plant
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it in the team brain and that's the idea that goes forward, I am never tied
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to taking credit for that idea.
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I could freaking care less because that's not where I get my confidence and security.
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My confidence and security comes from, did I effectively create a container
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and a space for this team to brainstorm and come to a solution?
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Did I effectively create spaces for them? Did I get out of their way?
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Did I encourage and support? And am I seeing them elevate?
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That's where I get my juice. You know, like, I get more confident as I see other
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people thriving because of my support.
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That's what fuels me, not I need to take credit for things or I need to solve
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everything and I need to make it mine.
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And what's interesting is, like, I don't have a team, but I have you all.
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And so sometimes I, like, work out some of my stuff, like the ideas and the
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things that I'm trying to work through here.
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So even this question about leadership with a team, I'm working through some
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leadership issues, and I'm starting to see some patterns in the feedback that
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people are bringing back to the leadership.
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And so here I'm trying to articulate, like, what are these two leadership styles I'm seeing?
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And how can I articulate to this leadership team that this collaborative approach
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is the way to go? Well, part of the way I do that is like articulating it here.
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You're my team, right? Like I'm trying to be like collaborative here.
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I mean, obviously you're listening to it because you're like,
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I like your ideas, Jamie, and I want to like implement on those ideas.
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So I guess here I'm taking a little bit of credit for the ideas,
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but I'm also trying to like, it's such a funny thing to say,
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but like work it out in this space.
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Because even though I can't see you, I know you're there.
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And I know that it is kind of a little bit collaborative because I'm trying
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to imagine like, are you one of my clients? Are you a leader that's struggling?
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Are you an employee that's struggling? And so I'm like working it out of like,
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I want to speak to you. I want this to feel...
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Resonant, right? And I need this argument to feel resonant with my client that
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I'm going to be talking to in a few days.
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So it's really helpful to bring it to this space and collaborate with you in
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the ether around this issue so that I can better articulate it.
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But it's not because I want to own this idea and I want recognition for these ideas.
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I'm putting these ideas out here because I feel like if I can figure it out,
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then I can share it with you and then you can implement it and it's going to help you.
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And it's all from that place of like, I want you to elevate.
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I want you to thrive. I want you to be living and working in your full potential.
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That's always my goal. Right?
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So that is where I want this leadership energy to be kind of focused is this
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idea that it's not my idea.
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It doesn't have to be my idea. I'm not tied to this idea. I don't need pats on the back.
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And if you're realizing that you are a leader in the other style.
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Then this is what I say to all of my clients, all those insecurities and the
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confidence, that's what you work on with a coach.
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That is all stuff. That's the coaching gap, right?
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The knowledge gap and the experience gap and the ability to do the job,
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I'm not worried about that.
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You've been doing this work for a long time. I'm not worried about you not being
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able to do the work itself.
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I'm worried about your approach.
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If you're already in a leadership role, you don't need to worry about your experience
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level and your knowledge base and what you're going to contribute to a project.
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What you need to do is learn how to get out of other people's way and not need
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a pat on the back and not need to own the idea.
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That's the insecurity that you can work on with a therapist or a coach.
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Let's work on that so that you can be in the team mind and leading the team
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mind and helping push a team and challenge them and let them elevate and push the boundaries.
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If you're not hearing those ideas, push, push, push, push, but in the best way.
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Push in a graceful, supportive way, not like, we've got a deadline.
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Hurry, hurry, hurry. But we're not there yet, guys.
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What else can we be thinking about? Let's think outside the box.
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Everybody go and do some research.
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Get some inspiration from somewhere. Bring it back. Let's keep pushing on it.
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That's where morale builds when they're like, whoa, you respect me?
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You like my ideas? You want me to bring my ideas forward?
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Okay, I'm going to keep bringing ideas forward.
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But if every time you're like, it's my idea, my idea is going forward, my idea, my idea.
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People are like, I'm going to stop bringing ideas forward.
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You don't get any more ideas. I brought ideas forward. You didn't want them.
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Now I lean out. I mean, that's the only option employees have in that leadership style is to lean out.
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Music.
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Do I think it's the best work? Do I even think the work is good?
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No, but I don't want to fight you on it. So fine.
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You can, you know, nobody's going to pat you on the back though,
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right? Like that's what you're looking for, but no one's going to pat you on
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the back because they're going to be pissed.
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So if you're waiting for a pat on the back because you've been a martyr and
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you've taken everything on and you realized you needed to solve it yourself
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and you need to move that idea forward and you're waiting for someone to pat
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you on the back, it's probably never going to come?
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Because people leaned out so far, they can't even reach your back.
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So it's not how you're going to get people thriving or creative ideas thriving
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or better problem solving.
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It's just not a way that works, quite frankly.
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And like I said earlier, I'm trying to rack my brain like, is there a time when that works?
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And the answer is no. It just doesn't work in any capacity.
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It It doesn't work in relationships and it doesn't work with teams.
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It just doesn't work. Team effort. If you think about sports,
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if you think about team sports, and if there's ever been one individual who shined,
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who like took the ball and took it for themselves, ultimately people stop respecting that person.
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And I know like there are people in sports and we all know them.
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We're like, oh, there's this person, that person, this person,
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they're the shining stars.
28:43
But their team cannot stand it when they hog the ball and they try to be the
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shining star. That's not teamwork.
28:51
Teamwork is about collaboration and getting to that finish line together.
28:55
The group is always better than the individual.
28:59
So remember that when you're building a business or moving a business objective
29:05
forward or a project forward, it's a team effort.
29:08
It's just like playing a team sport. You need to pass. You need to pass.
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If you are a ball hog, people are not going to like you.
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Everybody wants to play and you are
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going to get the ball up the field a lot faster if
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you're moving it between people in a strategic
29:29
way rather than just trying to bulldoze your
29:32
way through a group of people it just doesn't work like if you watch any sport
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it just doesn't work like that it's the passing that makes it like makes all
29:43
those moves so much more rewarding too When you see a really solid pass, you're like, yes.
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When you see someone just hog the ball and try to push it forward, they don't get very far.
29:56
So I hope you are someone who sees themselves as moving into a leadership position.
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Because if you're listening and if it's resonating, there are two things you
30:06
can do with this if you're not a leader yet.
30:09
Two things you can do with this information. You can digest it and figure out
30:15
how to share it with your management team and remind them that this is a great way of working.
30:21
So you can try to influence the team above you to work in this more collaborative
30:27
way and offer some process improvements to get them here.
30:33
And or you can start vying for senior leadership positions that maybe you have
30:40
insecurities about going after.
30:42
Maybe you don't feel like you have the confidence to go after it.
30:45
If you're here and you're listening and it's resonating with you and you're
30:48
shaking your head like, yeah, I want to be this kind of leader,
30:51
please, from the bottom of my heart, do not shy away from applying for those
30:57
senior leadership positions.
30:58
We need you there. We need you there.
31:01
We need you changing the shape of work environments so that they're more collaborative and less painful.
31:07
So please go after those jobs and the insecurities and the confidence.
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That's what you work on with a coach. That's what you work on with a therapist.
31:18
Get over that stuff on the side so that you can show up as a leader who's more collaborative,
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who's listening, who's getting the team thriving, who's helping people see their
31:28
potential, and then having that beautiful, reflective, rewarding celebration
31:35
at the end of a group project where you're winning.
31:39
It's the best. It is the best when you're like, we figured it out, guys, as a team.
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And we took it across the finish line as a team. And now we're going to celebrate as a team.
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And it's just like when you feel like you're in that zone with people,
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it's not about you getting credit.
31:57
It's about everybody celebrating together the accomplishment of the team. And it is beautiful.
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It is beautiful.
32:08
I want that for you. All right. I'm going to leave with that guys.
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And I will talk to you next week.
32:15
2025 is upon us everyone.
32:18
And if in 2025, you're looking for support with executive coaching,
32:24
business transformation, or launching your own business, it's time to get in touch.
32:29
I am here to support your growth.
32:31
I want to help you elevate to the next level in your life and your career.
32:36
Schedule a consult call with me. We'll do 20 minutes of coaching.
32:40
I'll talk you through the programs.
32:42
If you've been thinking about doing this for a while, now is the time.
32:46
I am looking so forward to helping you get to your goals.
32:52
Music.