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Sheena Yap Chan: Taking Bold Action Toward Your Best Self · The Bold Lounge

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Lee Burgess and I will be your host.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: If you're anything like me, you love hearing inspiring stories of people who have gone on bold journeys and made a positive impact in the world.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This podcast is all about those kinds of stories.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: Every week we'll hear from someone who has taken the lead or embarked on an extraordinary journey.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: In addition to hearing their stories, we'll also learn about their bold growth mindset that they use to make things happen.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: Whether they faced challenges or doubts along the way, they persisted and ultimately achieved their goals.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: These impactful stories will leave you feeling motivated and inspired to pursue your own bold journey.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: I believe everyone has a bold story waiting to be free.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Tune in and get ready to be inspired.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Today I have Sheena Yap Chan.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: She is a Wall Street Journal best-selling author, public speaker, and podcaster on building self-confidence and leadership.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Bold Lounge.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me, Late.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Such an honor to be here to just have a chat with you about the book and just everything else.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: All the good stuff that's happening.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So in general, obviously you're an author, you're a speaker, you're a podcaster.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: What else are you?
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else on the list that we don't know about that you want to add?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I like K-dramas.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: I like to work out, I like to hang out with my family.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's very I'm really passionate about elevating women's voices, especially Asian women, uh, just because when it comes to representation, we still have one of the lowest in the US and Canada.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I really want Asian women to realize what they're capable of, to move forward, to forge their own path, to be the person that they're meant to be.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: We'll jump right in.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you've you've been making some bold moves that a lot of people have seen with your book being published and the things that you've been doing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: Would love to understand what your definition of bold is.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I think being bold is just to take action even if you're scared.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm always scared every time I do something.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I get nervous, I have anxiety, but I go ahead and push myself because I know it's not just about me.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's showing others what's possible.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's showing them even if you're scared, I'm gonna go and do it anyway because it's gonna create an a ripple effect, an impact.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes it just takes one person to forge that path, to break that barrier, to show our community what's possible.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that to me is what bold is.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, you know, confidence is not always being like the most confident.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's just being scared and pushing through anyway.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, you know, for me, the the definition of fearless is feeling that fear and doing it anyway, because we all fear something.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Even the most successful people in the world, even the people you see on social media, the celebrities, they all fear something, but they push through it to give their best performance to show others what's possible.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, fear makes us human, honestly.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that fear comes from wanting to protect yourself or wanting to not get hurt or all of the above, uh, and start kind of what that feeling could be, but it's very natural.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree with you.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think there someone that said the other day of, like, oh, I can't believe you're so fearless.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm scared all the time.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I just like do it anyway.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I love that the definition that you have.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: When was the first time you remember being bold based on your definition?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think the first time I was really bold was I think asking for a little more of a raise than I was supposed to.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's a funny story.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like back when I had a job, I was getting a salary review and you know, I went from 50,000 to 54,000, right?
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I asked my boss, is it okay if you add a a thousand more?
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Because in Chinese culture, anything that ends in a four is a bad omen.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you say it out loud, it also means death.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: So if you see um Chinese people's houses, there's no number four.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_00: If you see go to a Chinese condo building or Chinese buildings, nothing ends in a four.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, he laughed about it because he thought it sounded ridiculous, but to us, we take it very seriously.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: And well, he gave it to me.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I had an extra thousand dollars just by asking.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes as women, we're so afraid to ask what we're worth because we're afraid of being rejected.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, there's that possibility, but if you don't ask, the answer is no.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: So if I didn't go out there and just simply ask, like, is it okay if you can add a thousand more?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I would, I wouldn't have that money, right?
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: That extra cash.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, you know, culturally, we'll we're told not to make any trouble, not to bring yourself, you know, bring attention to you, not to ask any questions.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so for me, that was probably one of the first times I was just pulled to like ask, is it okay if you could do this?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like I was being adamant, it was just a request, right?
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a reason behind it because culturally it's bad luck.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think that might be the first time.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and that's not advocating for ourselves in in many situations, whether it's salary or role or even in our personal lives, it is hard to do it.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: The more you do it, the better you get at it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think even, you know, just from a humility standpoint and a humbleness standpoint and a respect standpoint.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think I'm always like a little, oh, I don't want them to think I think I'm this or that, but it's like, okay, well, I have worth and there's meaning behind my ask.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's, you know, yours had a really extensive meaning.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's a great example of being bold for sure.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it probably leads to like the next time you do it and the next time you do it.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it does have a ripple effect potentially too of the next time you'll you'll do it and do more of it.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree with that?
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like it kind of starts the I can do that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because especially when you get a good result, you're gonna be like, oh, if I can do that, what can I do next?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And it just becomes a ripple effect.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you learn from the no's too.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'm always like when people say no, I'm like, well, thank you for that, because it's helpful for me to understand kind of it's a no, we're not dragging things along and we don't have to figure it out.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes I'll ask why and why can't, or why not?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm a big question asker too.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: So so if you know, for the listeners that don't know, uh you have written an incredible book, The Tao of Self-Confidence, a guide to moving beyond trauma and awakening the leader within.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: How did this book come about?
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: Where did you where did it come from?
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like when did you say I'm gonna write a book?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's so funny because I wasn't expecting to write a book, to be honest.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I already had a book called Asian Women Who Boss Up, which highlights the stories of 18 Asian women who are able to forge their own path, overcome obstacles, and thrive.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, I was content with having a book that really represented Asian women because if you look at the publishing industry, 75% is still represented by Caucasian, mostly Caucasian male, right?
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I just wanted to have more diversity, you know, true diversity, sharing our authentic stories, sharing a stories of how we're able to forge our own path, overcome obstacles, and thrive.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm huge on reaching out to people.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: I believe that we have as women, we have to learn to make the first move to create the opportunities that we wanted.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I actually reached out to a lady from the publisher to, you know, just buy a book, right?
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it led to other things, you know, they asked me to speak for for the publisher's company for Asian Heritage Month.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then one of the higher people at the publisher asked me back if I wanted to work with them as an author.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I was like, is this for real?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then I had to go through the whole process of, you know, writing a proposal, what this topic was gonna be.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_00: And at first I actually wasn't even sure if I wanted to take this because I was like, who's gonna want to read this book?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Like, who am I to write a book about leadership, especially for Asian women?
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_00: I don't, I don't think I'm good enough yet.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I know as women, you know, we tend to have imposter syndrome, right?
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: We always feel like we're not good enough, we can't make a difference in the world.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: But I realized this wasn't just about me.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: This was for all the other women, especially Asian women out there who still still feel like they're not good enough.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I decided to say yes, made it happen.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I started writing this book last summer, you know, in July of last year, had less than three months to do this so we can launch it in the month of May for Asian Heritage Month.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: And here we are today.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's kind of taken off, you know, from people understanding and learning, you know, and being educated.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the things you talk about in your book is the model minority myth and how it affects us.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to, if you could, if you don't mind, like defining what that is so the listeners understand what it is and understand the effect that it has.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, the model minority myth, you know, it's this notion thinking that all Asians are successful, that we don't need any help, and that we're fine on our own.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes, you know, it was it was written by, you know, I psych, I think a psychologist.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: He basically said that we're the model citizen, which pits us against other cultures, right?
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because they think, oh, look, they've been through hell, but they never complain.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: They're successful, they don't need any help.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so if we go out and ask for help, or if we go get a loan at the bank, it's it's different because they're like, well, I thought you guys are successful, you don't need our help.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it really, really affects us, right?
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_00: We're always seen as a top of everything, uh, we have everything figured out, but there's a huge income disparity within Asian cultures.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: Not every Asian person is successful, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Not everyone has a high income like any other culture, right?
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like any other culture.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's, you know, there's people who have in higher class, there's other people in the lower class.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's important to step away from that model minority myth and see us as human beings rather than this notion that all Asian people are successful, don't need help, and we are at the top of the class, and we have to be perfect and things like that.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it also connects to our confidence, you know, our confidence in what we can do, how we lead, how we connect with others.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also probably an assumption that all, you know, Asians are confident and they know what they're doing and they can lead, and you know, but I think anyone can probably you relate to not feeling confident in certain situations.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the big premises of the book is really around, you know, building that self-confidence.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: But you have to do some work.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yes.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I think sometimes as I work with people or talk to people, they don't want to maybe they don't recognize it or they they recognize it and just know it's like it's something they have to unpack.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: And unpacking it can be challenging.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things we talked about just briefly before we started taping was that you know, one of the titles of the chapters is how to unlock our traumas.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I think maybe people don't understand everyone has one.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Would you agree with that?
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: And what does that look like as people start to try to unpack that a little bit?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: We all go through trauma, myself included, right?
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone's trauma is different because there's different kinds of trauma.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: It could be through our childhood, it could be through our adult life.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: People don't realize we're carrying the burden of our parents' trauma, our grandparents' trauma, and so on if they haven't worked on it.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So many different even cultural traumas, money trauma.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: There's so there's so many things, and sometimes we're not even aware about the traumas we go through.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as I was writing this book, I realized there's a lot of leadership books out there, but nobody talks about the reason as to why we're not moving forward.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: What's holding us back in order to show up as our best self?
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so we have to do the work, right?
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I think sometimes people are always looking for that secret or that magic thing that can get us to the next step.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: But in real reality, we have to just go through the ugly moments in our life.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: Healing isn't pretty, it's ugly, it's it's it's bad, it's you know, it's uncomfortable.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: But we have to get uncomfortable, talk about the taboos in our cultures, talk about the the difficult conversations so that we can find ways to heal from it and really move forward as our best self.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because if we don't, we're really going to be stuck in the same cycle over and over again.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as Asian women, for centuries, you know, we've always been seeing second class to men.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of traditions that that really hinder us, right?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, in China, you know, back in the day, men can have multiple wives and concubines.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Same thing in Japan and Korea, so many different things.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Even, you know, a couple of months ago, I just found out that my great-grandmother had her feet binded.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was prevalent back in the day because it was a status symbol.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: It was a symbol of prestige and beauty and knowing that, you know, you've been married off.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, if you think about it, binding your feet is painful.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um, it's it's crazy.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: And even till this day, if in China, if you're 25 and over and still single, you're considered, you're literally called a leftover.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: And people don't realize that is that is offensive, right?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Even though they have great jobs, great education, have their, you know, have really great careers.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's like if you're not married, you're an outcast.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's so unfortunate that till this day that still happens.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, things have been changing, and we have to like stop labeling these things, right?
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing wrong with you if you're still single.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, every everyone's timing is different, everyone's life and path is different.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's so crazy the things that we go through that people don't realize.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: Even the negative stereotypes we go through, we're seen as quiet, submissive, and obedient, or we're seen as not having emotions and we're robots.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: And because of that, we become targets of anti-Asian hate, of sexual crime.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is why it's so important to create better representation, to speak up, to share what you're feeling.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's not easy.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, I mean, of course it's difficult, right?
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: If it were easy, everyone would be doing this and we wouldn't have this conversation.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes we really got to go out there and showcase what's possible, share what we're going through, being able to build that confidence, being able to heal through our traumas so that we can move forward as our best self.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's so many women out there still hurting, still afraid to share what they went through because especially for us, we're always, we're always the blame for everything.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't understand why.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: And women get vilified every single day when something scandalous happens, right?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody ever thinks that we are affected by that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we are very affected by that.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Every single day we get vilified for something.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it's it's crazy to till this day.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: We still do, right?
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: If we say something, we get labeled as something else, if we do something, you know, it's like, oh, how could you do that?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: But why, you know, we're constantly getting double standards.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: And nobody talks about this stuff because, you know, as women, we just don't bring it up or, you know, we're still just getting flagged for it.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: And unfortunately, sometimes it's other women that shame us into this, unfortunately.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I know this is like a taboo topic to talk about, but as women, we have to work together to in order to eliminate the big problems we still have because men don't do that.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: But women, we're we still do that, unfortunately, until today.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: I think I've actually in my career and I've shared this, have had more challenges with women actually supporting and guiding or helping, you know, like everyone doesn't have it all figured out.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone isn't, I'm I'm not perfect.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm you know, but I'm trying and I'm dedicated and trying to get stuff done.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think, you know, from the perspective that we're we're all part of the solution.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: So like we need to figure out how to truly, and when it comes to working with Asian women, I think folks don't understand not only the things that you just talked about, right?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, stereotypes or how they can, we know women just in gender-wise can be judged, but at an Asian women, it's another level, like you said, and there's just a that's a lot of weight, right?
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, how do people feel about you speaking out about it?
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, do you get any flack from kind of being out there and being the bold voice that leads to a ripple, probably of other people being able to share?
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, that's a great question.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we can't please everyone, right?
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what we have to remember.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: You'll always get haters, and that's just part of it.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's just part of your journey.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: Even, even the most, you know, biggest celebrities in the world get flack every single day, right?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've been called a racist for empowering my own community, which doesn't make any sense, but you know, that's what those are some of the things that's happened.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: To be honest, I haven't gotten that much flack, but it does happen from time to time, right?
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: It does happen, and we have to learn to let it go.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: We focus on the positive impact that we're creating for other women, uh, for our community, for people beyond our community, because, you know, especially now this world is so chaotic, right?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: Especially after the pandemic, we're all going through some mental health crisis, myself included.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: And the most important part of all this is we need to learn to heal from them.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: We need to find ways to heal from our mental health issues so that we can show up as our best self.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad that one thing that was great out of the pandemic was, you know, having mental health be normalized more.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's still a lot of work to do, but at least we are comfortable enough to seek a therapist, look for resources, talk to other people about how we're feeling, be part of a community who understands what you go through, especially when you're forging your own path.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's not easy.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: We always feel like we're alone, not realizing, you know, we're all going through similar things.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes when we can just learn we're not the only ones going through those things, we feel a lot better and we realize it's just all part of the process and we find ways to keep moving forward.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when someone shares it too, I think knowing that you don't have to fix it if someone shares it with you, you don't have to have the answers.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they just want to share, like, today's been a day, or today and yesterday and day before that, like I've been in a bad place.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you may give them guidance, but you don't sometimes there's just power in really listening and just being there and someone feeling safe enough in that safe space to talk to you about it.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things in your book you talk about is healing and self-love.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know if you know this.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: I recently made an album with a band in Nashville, not me singing, but of just different life tracks.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a line in one of the songs that's I'm going to fall in love with myself.
• 17:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's about like accepting myself, really realizing I'm okay, you know, I'm an original, but that's great, you know, and I love who I am.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that is something that I don't know, it took a little bit of time, you know, because I think as we grow up, I think we start off like fully in ourselves, at least I did.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: 20s, 30s, like, yeah, everyone's gonna see me, gonna hear my opinion.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And somewhere in the 40s, like I started to start to mute myself because I was in a system of like, don't do it too much.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: That we like that you're, you know, a go-getter, and we like that you have an opinion, but make sure you don't share it here and make sure you mute it here, and don't stand up over there.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a lot of rules, and it got kind of confusing for me, and definitely missteps along the way, and probably even though I did really well in my career very fast, I probably could have done even faster if I wouldn't have had some of those missteps.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I started to like maybe mute myself or start to form myself into the system I was in.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, how can people kind of start to either find or step back into actually realizing who they are and then loving who they are?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, for me, we have to find ways that works for us, right?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we're all different, we all have different, you know, issues that we're working on, we all have different ways of learning.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it's really important to seek help.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the most important part because as women, we feel like we have to do everything ourselves.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't help that we're labeled as a superwoman and we have to do everything everything ourselves, which is not right because that's how we get burnt out, not feeling good enough, feeling like we always have to keep on taking it to the next level when we don't really have to.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to do this alone, right?
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: You can seek help.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can, you know, talk to a therapist, hire a coach, connect with a community, listen to podcasts and books, you know, read other people's stories.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the most important part, right?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Just seeking help, find ways that works for you.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then, yeah, practice self-love and self-care because that is something that nobody teaches us, not even in school.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I wish, I wish schools taught that because those are real life lessons that we actually need when we get out there, right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: After college, after university.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's great to learn about math and science and geography.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: What about life skills?
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: We need life skills too, to live life, right?
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Especially coming out from college and university, it's really scary, right?
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're like, what's my next step?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: What do I do?
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do I become confident in landing my interview?
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Things like that.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's really important to talk about these things because as women, we're always told to serve everybody else and we forget to serve the most important person in the world, which is ourself.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if we're constantly constantly pleasing other people, we're gonna get exhausted.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: We're our energy is gonna be drained and we're gonna feel like, you know, we're gonna, then that's when everything starts happening.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: The mental health issues, the the low confidence, not feeling good enough.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: That all stems from that, right?
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really important to talk about these things, really find ways to heal from it, being able to ask help because asking for help is not a sign of weakness, it's actually a strength and really helps us feel faster and build our confidence faster.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does it mean to boss up?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_00: Just take action, right?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, knowing that you are capable and you can do it.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I know taking action is really nerve-wracking.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've been there.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's days where I still get anxious or scared or nervous when I take, when I go out there and, you know, be interviewed on TV or do a speaking gig.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I it's I still go through that.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: But I realize that, you know, I just want to be able to help someone out.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's just a sign that sometimes that fear and nervousness is just means like you just want to make sure that you want to help a person out.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: You want to make sure that you can make a difference.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so when I see it that way, it's like I just go out there and do it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do I fumble?
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, of course.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Who doesn't?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're all human.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: But the more practice, you know, you have, the better you get.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So where'd you get that?
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're you have a spunk and a spirit, and uh I can do it, and I can fail and I can succeed.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, have you always been like that?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_01: Did your parents help you with that?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something you grew into?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I definitely was not, I definitely was not confident.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think a lot of it also came from my podcast because when I first started my podcast, I was really trying to find support systems that really catered to Asian women's confidence because I had none.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: My confidence was very low, and so I wanted To find resources that really catered to Asian women, but I couldn't find any.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I really wanted to create better representation.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I started the podcast.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: And being able to interview over 700 Asian women from around the world made me realize I wasn't the only one dealing with what I was dealing with.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: And so I realized that I wasn't alone in this journey.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, a lot of us go through these things.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so that inspired me to just keep going, right?
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_00: Having a community of other women who are in similar situations, that's also helped me a lot.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I have a community of female entrepreneurs, especially our women who boss up movement.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's helped me a lot because I see them taking action.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know what they're going through.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: I know what they're feeling, but yet they do it anyway.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so that pumps me up as well.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we don't have to do everything ourselves, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: We can get inspiration from each other.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: We can learn to help each other out instead of tearing each other down so that we can go out there and show the world what's possible.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think as women, we tend to forget that we're not alone in this journey.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: We can, it's okay to ask for help.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay not to be okay, it's okay to have a bad day, you know, but we have the tools and resources to pick ourselves back up.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: So when you think about the guidance you would give someone to, you know, it's like the Nike, just do it, take this step.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's really hard for some people to take that first step because they they had they get in their head, you know, oh, all the things that could happen, all the negative that could happen.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: They really think about sometimes the positive that could happen.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: We we tend to like draw ourselves towards, oh, this this could happen and it might be negative.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: What would be your guidance to someone who's trying to build their confidence?
• 23:32
  SPEAKER_01: Not everyone can go zero to 60.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the initial things they can start to do?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, when it comes to building confidence, you don't have to take big leaps, right?
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes taking the big leap is actually doesn't really help you, right?
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: Because you take a big leap and then it doesn't work, then you feel like, oh, I'm the biggest loser in the world, right?
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I say take it one step at a time.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: So let's say you want to run a marathon and you've never ran a day in your life.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not gonna do 40 kilometers or how many miles?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's like 20, 20 something miles.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're not gonna do it the first time around, right?
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've never ran a day in your life.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you'll start with you know, 15 minutes of running and then you slowly increase that.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I've been able to do 15 minutes.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe tomorrow I can do 20 minutes, and then so on and so on.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then a year from now, you could probably run that, right?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_00: So take taking small actionable steps every single day to yield the big results.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say you want to write a book.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of people want to write a book, but they feel like it's this daunting task.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Start just writing one page a day, do it for a whole year straight.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: If you wrote one page a day for a whole year straight, you have a full book.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, you can even split that into two books.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: So just taking it one step at a time.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Rome wasn't built in a day, so don't expect yourself to do the same thing.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that's, you know, I talk about with my clients goal chunking.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: So like taking your big goal, putting it into these small manual steps, and then measuring it along the way and knowing how to recalibrate on a regular basis, not waiting for six months to pass or nine months to pass.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm big on like, did I do what I needed to do today to work towards my goal?
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is my action actually aligned with what I'm trying to achieve?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so when you think about the marathon or you think about your goals or writing a book, these are all things that are very good to have, but there are ways to like work in manageable steps.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_01: When it comes to your confidence, it could be going out, it could be going to that event, it could be I'm going to talk or start to talk to my manager or director about what are the other opportunities, or I'm gonna talk about some situations that aren't aligned with how I expect to be treated, or I'm gonna I'm gonna like do this with someone else who's experienced it at the same time.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like you said, you always don't have to do those things alone.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: But taking that first step really is important because it just leads to the next one or next one in each one that you learn.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So just encouraging folks to like if there's something that is not feeling right or feeling like they need to kind of move into, like to really think about who you could partner with or who can help you even kind of prepare for what you want to do.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that also helps to boost your confidence.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you so much for being on the bold lounge.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: We have all the information about the book and connecting with Sheena in the episode notes.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Keep on being bold, Sheena.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see your journey and as it moves forward, even being bolder.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much, and I'm so grateful to be here today.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for listening to the Bold Lounge Podcast.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Through the continuum of bold stories, vulnerability to taking the leap.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: You will meet more extraordinary people making a positive impact for others through their unique and important story.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: By highlighting these stories, we hope to inspire others and share the journey of those with a bold mindset.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you've enjoyed this podcast and look forward to sharing the next bold journey with you.