Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Forest of the Dead (2/2)

Transcript

Talks to Toby Hadoke about his choice of Forest of the Dead (2/2) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:33
  I'm so drunk. Hello, my name is Toby, hajduk
• 0:43
  lingering in the podcast Universe like a bad smell but
• 0:47
  hopefully it will dissipate. As I say that this is a hamster
• 0:51
  with a blunt, penknife the Doctor Who episode commentary
• 0:56
  podcast. Okay, I can die happy now.
• 1:04
  So yeah, we are here to talk about Forest of the Dead.
• 1:09
  We've all had a lot of fun talking about silence in the
• 1:11
  library. Yeah, there's a lot of surprises
• 1:16
  in this one, isn't there? So it will change in tone which
• 1:18
  is interesting. And you know, my fat worry about
• 1:26
  using the word Trope but I'm gonna I'm not fat.
• 1:30
  Is MM, shall we say which Is, you know, wrong footing as a
• 1:34
  viewer and there's nothing wrong to be with being wrong foot it
• 1:39
  and it kind of and it's strangely works but it comes a
• 1:43
  different thing. Although there's plenty of as we
• 1:46
  saw from the next time trailer. There's still plenty of charging
• 1:49
  about being scared in a library. But I certainly thought there
• 1:51
  would be more of that and less Donna being happily married, and
• 1:56
  strange things happening in some cook sort of Netherworld.
• 2:00
  There's, there's so many guys want some.
• 2:02
  Big moments in his heaven doesn't like lots of emotional
• 2:05
  moments and there's big twist and I.
• 2:07
  But in amongst all of that, what I really love is like some of
• 2:11
  the clever commentary the the way that Moffat talks about how
• 2:17
  time in it so donors or where, but it's the next morning at the
• 2:21
  point where you do the narrative needs to continue, she goes
• 2:25
  well, wasn't I? Just is so clever or the very
• 2:29
  simple way that their fellow that she's having the
• 2:32
  relationship. Relationship with has a stammer.
• 2:35
  And then the payoff for that at the end is a, it's just this so
• 2:40
  clever. Yes.
• 2:42
  And I always, he's one of the sort of lost Heroes of Doctor
• 2:45
  Who really that guy, but he sort of go hot cop, got me, find him
• 2:49
  and make sure that he's happy that movement.
• 2:53
  I remember, I wrote a play for radio 3 about Spike Milligan and
• 2:58
  it had to be set at this fantasy world and it was a sort of quest
• 3:01
  for him to After his childhood and I got really bogged down in
• 3:06
  there. But how does he get from here to
• 3:08
  here? And the sort of practical nature
• 3:09
  of it until one day, you know, I think the producer just went,
• 3:13
  but you've constructed a fantasy.
• 3:15
  So just make a boat a, you know, just have them learn.
• 3:18
  I denied. It did remind me a bit of of
• 3:20
  this where you suddenly go. Well I need to get from there to
• 3:23
  there. Just get from there to there and
• 3:24
  go. Oh, I've landed on a boat.
• 3:27
  And that, that then sort of Highlights the strangeness and
• 3:32
  fractured nature of the thing that you've created.
• 3:36
  But also means you could cut out all that, sort of boring, a to
• 3:39
  be stuff that is, is mechanically quite awkward.
• 3:43
  But you've got a long time to get there.
• 3:45
  The way he tells sort of Donna, getting married, but you're
• 3:49
  pregnant having children and it just reminds you of the artifice
• 3:53
  of all listen, soap, operas and things like that, how visible
• 3:55
  condensed down and I'm doing pleasure, and yet, Then very
• 4:00
  cleverly, even though it's all artificial, makes her absolutely
• 4:06
  tragic when it's all taken away from that big even though it's
• 4:09
  all the construct. Yeah, it's where my, well, yeah,
• 4:13
  there we will get there. I'll see what you entered.
• 4:17
  I'll count as in this time. Okay.
• 4:20
  Yeah, in five, four, three, two, one off.
• 4:25
  We go back to the library. Yeah, I was.
• 4:28
  So I was so sort of list. Into girls County and I thought,
• 4:31
  oh no, I've got a press play. I got there just in time, tens
• 4:36
  moment. It's a, it's a oh sure.
• 4:41
  Can I make a confession? It seems to started playing
• 4:43
  silence in the library again. Oh, okay.
• 4:47
  Okay. Absolutely.
• 4:48
  Get him. I need to go too far east of the
• 4:50
  dead. Right.
• 4:51
  Okay, let me go but it's the same shot to open.
• 4:53
  I'm so sorry. Did you know?
• 4:55
  I don't I don't edit these things either.
• 4:57
  So I love this because it's just goes to show.
• 4:59
  It's real gorilla. Pod casting?
• 5:01
  Absolutely. Yeah, that was my fault.
• 5:03
  Everybody laughs and I laughed, you know, I've heard you fight
• 5:06
  with your remote. You control a few times and you
• 5:10
  have to because it's that's in real time.
• 5:12
  You know, I can't. Okay, you ready?
• 5:16
  Yeah, 5, 4, 3, 2 1. Off.
• 5:22
  We go since exactly the same shot.
• 5:23
  I was allowed to me. I was allowed to be mistaken,
• 5:27
  who wants clearing a minute. You've got a little girl
• 5:30
  watching Doctor Who on TV. Yes, but just that use of the
• 5:36
  word saved Donna Noble has been saved and you go.
• 5:41
  Oh, it's saved. It's brilliant.
• 5:45
  Absolutely brilliant. And yet we still until it's
• 5:50
  spell out later. And it where, what is actually
• 5:53
  happening and what that means? Yeah, and then it that it almost
• 5:58
  the best, the best jokes when I watch a comedian, do something.
• 6:02
  Where I go, I think that, but I hadn't thought to say it.
• 6:08
  Saved is a bit. I thought you go.
• 6:09
  Well, that makes absolute sense to me.
• 6:11
  Except it didn't occur to me. Yeah.
• 6:14
  And that's really sort of got. So I knew that except I didn't
• 6:18
  know it and that's that's really satisfying as a viewer because
• 6:23
  you understand it immediately. Yeah.
• 6:26
  It's like it's like you're very pleasantly duped.
• 6:29
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 6:30
  Or maybe you're going along with you.
• 6:32
  I'm glad you said that when we were taught watching our way
• 6:34
  ghostly, you knew the doll. It was coming out of that thing.
• 6:38
  Darla came out of that thing. You had at least for a reaction.
• 6:41
  Personally, absolutely. Oh boy these titles, I love it.
• 6:46
  I love those filings to put it. I like this style of this theme.
• 6:54
  I watched I watched them because the theme started changing quite
• 6:58
  often, didn't it? I watched Cold War.
• 7:00
  Recent is a tribute to David Warner and I've written it
• 7:06
  starts snowing. I don't actually remember.
• 7:08
  This this this theme because it's ages since I watched one of
• 7:11
  those Series 7. Yeah, Michael sequence.
• 7:16
  It's a little bit distracting. Alex.
• 7:19
  Kingston knows exactly how to be in Doctor Who mmm.
• 7:22
  She's absolutely. Tone perfect, but Dexter he
• 7:28
  turned up in them right now. I remember it is B in spiteful.
• 7:33
  Oh okay. Who is his wife?
• 7:36
  When she's when she travels back in time to the the inventors
• 7:39
  Fair? Yes, of course.
• 7:43
  Yeah. It's one of those axes that
• 7:44
  stunner done a couple of new who's rumors, brother and red
• 7:48
  dwarf as well episode. He's a good actor.
• 7:54
  So here we've got the little girl.
• 7:56
  Watching The Adventures of Donna.
• 7:58
  Now yeah, this is really weird because You don't, you don't
• 8:04
  expect this. You don't know where this is
• 8:06
  coming from at all, and it makes no concession stand trying to
• 8:11
  jarring as well. The weight cuts from from place
• 8:16
  to place from moment to moment, but it's got just enough not to
• 8:20
  because it's because it's obviously a slow pace and you've
• 8:22
  got the Jeopardy or anything. But it's got enough with the
• 8:26
  cutting of the time and the presence of dr.
• 8:28
  Moon I think on it salmon is and what is a lovely, lovely.
• 8:32
  A Somebody I told someone he was actually offered to the doctor
• 8:38
  but the iPhone as well. Yeah.
• 8:41
  So then I was quite surprised when he was in this and it's not
• 8:46
  as showing you part, you need a good and memorable actor but as
• 8:50
  an actor that had you know, been in a position where he could
• 8:53
  say, I don't want to do the doctor, which is an amazing part
• 8:56
  or or maybe he just didn't audition for, I did it.
• 8:58
  I don't know the details and I love the way does you know?
• 9:02
  And then You. And then you remember, then you
• 9:04
  forgot all of that is lovely, but I expected him to.
• 9:08
  Maybe be either somebody desperately heroic or a
• 9:11
  scenery-chewing villain and he is neither of those things.
• 9:14
  He's this slightly strange comforting and yet unsettling
• 9:19
  president Sinister. Yeah, but without without play
• 9:23
  and I love, I love lovely. Husband to be.
• 9:29
  I think with, I think this is a really sweet be done.
• 9:32
  Relationship. Yeah.
• 9:34
  About three minutes screen time together.
• 9:36
  I totally believe totally buy it.
• 9:39
  You totally buy it. What were you saying about
• 9:42
  Donna? Actually, she looks very hot
• 9:44
  there. I'm telling you dust.
• 9:48
  When she says here, now, is that gorgeous and card speaker.
• 9:51
  Word the person. Yes, it is.
• 9:58
  I have to, in fact, II have to have one eye on my wife at the
• 10:04
  time who's quite sort of strongly aware of sort of issues
• 10:12
  of the way that women are portrayed on television and
• 10:16
  women are treated by Society. um, How did struggle a bit with
• 10:22
  more fat sometimes? She, I think she felt that the
• 10:26
  dolphin is she she sort of described.
• 10:29
  I think, River Song us your tits with quips.
• 10:31
  I think she sort of said that, you know, she felt that there
• 10:34
  was a sort of idealized version of what a woman should be is
• 10:38
  sexy and funny. And she coming from where she
• 10:43
  came from, was was nonplussed by that, which I thought was an
• 10:47
  interesting perspective. We start Be speaker really?
• 10:50
  But I throw that in with my throw that into the mix.
• 10:53
  As an observation, what was Julia?
• 10:55
  Sawalha has character called him press gang.
• 10:57
  Yeah, I can't remember now. Oh I've heard a rumor that are
• 11:02
  getting old Mafia has written since then is essentially trying
• 11:06
  to capture what he got. So perfect there.
• 11:10
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 11:13
  Squareness that was swearing. This gun in empty child doctor
• 11:16
  dances. Yeah.
• 11:17
  Okay, yeah, Captain Jack's got one has a name.
• 11:20
  Sorry, I'm eating a biscuit. That's how I had my supper gosh.
• 11:26
  That's short for the window but I love River song.
• 11:29
  I love Alex, Kingston. I remember being in a pub where
• 11:34
  we watched The 11th hour. I think Jeremy Bentham at
• 11:38
  organized it. And then the loads and loads of
• 11:40
  us watch and they have the what's coming up trailer for
• 11:45
  future episodes. And when when River Song
• 11:49
  appeared on the screen, there was a spontaneous Round of
• 11:51
  Applause and you went, oh wow, she's really established herself
• 11:55
  already and I thinking, when I think she is a great character,
• 12:00
  but I know I know some people who don't like care at all.
• 12:04
  And again for the same reason is So, I think, I think one of the
• 12:07
  things people misjudge about Steven Moffat, because he's
• 12:10
  clever and funny. And because he comes across as
• 12:13
  actually quite self-assured on Talking Heads documentaries
• 12:16
  here, is that there's a misreading that he's a bit smug
• 12:18
  and full of himself and if you ever met it, he's actually quite
• 12:21
  shy and quite quite old, your gaze and is, and is very
• 12:26
  self-effacing. And I think people sometimes
• 12:29
  read smugness where there's actually defensive wit, you
• 12:33
  know, I read a lot of his humors, Is that lets bread from
• 12:37
  survival in the playground, you know, I've been guilty of that.
• 12:40
  I'd say there's a smugness to his dialogue and I kind of
• 12:44
  selfish eridanus and a knowingness and it's not really
• 12:48
  a tone I enjoy. So I did struggle a bit in those
• 12:54
  years. This is because a couple of
• 12:55
  people that have occasionally guns, for me on the internet
• 12:58
  accused me of being accused me of being knowing and it's odd
• 13:02
  because it's obviously, if I'm telling a joke, I do know that.
• 13:06
  And I'll sometimes and I do a sort of sideways that's but I
• 13:09
  think they mistake that for confidence and it's a difficult
• 13:13
  thing you do. When you're, when you're a comic
• 13:15
  playwright is that you have to be quite bold because you have
• 13:19
  to win the audience over, but that's not necessarily a sign of
• 13:23
  confidence. I think people mistake it for
• 13:25
  arrogance and dislike it because nobody likes arrogant.
• 13:28
  But actually most people who are trying to be funny try to be
• 13:33
  funny. Hope they are rather.
• 13:35
  The thick, they are. Otherwise they need to try and
• 13:37
  prove it on a nightly basis to strangers.
• 13:40
  So it's, I think Steven Moffat has written some of the
• 13:44
  smartest, the most quotable, the wittiest dialogue we've ever
• 13:48
  had. He's a, he's a brilliant writer
• 13:51
  of sharp comedy. He's a sharp, sharp comic mind
• 13:56
  and there, but then does this sort of stuff that knocks the
• 13:58
  wind out of you. That that really simple, thing
• 14:02
  of what the hell is, she said to it, and we find out later You
• 14:05
  knew my name and you go, oh my God.
• 14:08
  And it's one of the beautiful doctors things a bit.
• 14:10
  Like the love affair with rose because it's unconsummated this
• 14:16
  you can have it as being a really important thing.
• 14:19
  Without it would be ruined if she, then said, your name is
• 14:22
  Trevor. It's the fact that it's a threat
• 14:26
  to the mystery of the doctor because it's so important, but
• 14:30
  actually, you can have your cake and eat it because will will
• 14:32
  never have that thing where we where she does say.
• 14:35
  His name is because that would actually ruin the mystery
• 14:38
  because actually if you tell too much backstory, it's not it's
• 14:43
  not terribly helpful. I would say in terms of the
• 14:46
  Allure of the character, I thought with some trepidation
• 14:50
  that we were going to find out what his name was in the name of
• 14:54
  the doctor. And I thought that was so
• 14:57
  cleverly done, where no? This episode is.
• 14:59
  Yeah. Doing things in the name of the
• 15:02
  doctor. I thought that was so it's a
• 15:04
  great way of taking advantage of the mystery at the core of the
• 15:07
  character you invoke it but you don't actually dilute it.
• 15:11
  He's a nosy man like that. Like we got to a point now where
• 15:14
  I don't who's been on for a couple of years and they'll stop
• 15:17
  playing about with what people are expecting.
• 15:20
  I think I think Steven Moffat was expert at suggesting arcs
• 15:25
  sometimes with little details that just came to nothing.
• 15:27
  They were just like you know, I love this actress Jessica.
• 15:34
  I can't remember her name. Just and one of the joys of
• 15:38
  watching, you know, a lot of anti-prior cast doctor.
• 15:41
  Whose is that you see a star of the future and you go, oh, they
• 15:45
  went on to do great things, this lady has not gone on to do a
• 15:50
  massive amount. It just goes to show or nothing
• 15:53
  that I particular noses and and it just goes to show that you
• 15:57
  know being picked up early getting a nice decent part in.
• 16:00
  In a premier German the acting profession is such a parlous one
• 16:04
  and such an unforgiving one that the can sometimes be no reason
• 16:08
  why you know she may be just didn't get a couple of key
• 16:12
  auditions, I didn't go but not everybody is going to do the
• 16:14
  Andrew Garfield, carry buddy. I think we assume because we've
• 16:17
  had such a high hit rate but you know, everybody has gone on to
• 16:21
  have, you know, fabulous, great success.
• 16:24
  But I've actually not seen Arrow.
• 16:26
  Do do anything. Since I know she has done some
• 16:28
  stuff but but she's not. She's not had the Carey
• 16:32
  Mulligan, Andrew Garfield Felicity Jones, something, or
• 16:35
  even OT, Greg medlen and Airy Pika.
• 16:38
  You will see no Karen Gillan when she played essentially a
• 16:41
  bit part in the fires. Yeah.
• 16:42
  Hey, that she would be one of Hollywood's Darlings.
• 16:46
  Well Joshua, Dallas, who's one of the notes in the first
• 16:49
  episode as doing big stuff in Hollywood's at his own series
• 16:53
  and stuff like that? So, you know, even hit, but she,
• 16:57
  she's not and I think she's great in this and I think the
• 17:00
  The, you know, the bombs that the doctor has with her when
• 17:03
  he's leading her, and you can't see her and, and the genuine
• 17:06
  fear and the emotion of that, you know, that it's that it's
• 17:11
  quite Brave. I think sometimes show people
• 17:13
  being scared without the biggest with gibbering scared, but with
• 17:17
  a being a bit sad, but that they think they're about to die
• 17:19
  itself. Both moment of death moments
• 17:21
  really. Well, do you remember in flesh
• 17:24
  and stone with the cleric? Yeah Mouse be getting.
• 17:29
  It's a I think you You'll be at my best.
• 17:31
  I think your new mirror best. I think is a gorgeous line.
• 17:36
  So, for all the time, he whiny jigsaw puzzle, story telling,
• 17:41
  jokes sassy female characters. We There is a heart to my facts,
• 17:47
  right in. He gets people in a way that I
• 17:49
  think he's sometimes not given given credit for.
• 17:52
  I tell you what, I don't think I don't buy into this thing but
• 17:55
  there was no emotion in the classic series.
• 17:57
  I think there's plenty of emotion the classic series and
• 17:59
  there were moments moments of really moved me, but it was the
• 18:02
  thing that surprised me most with the new series was how
• 18:07
  often I was taught that. I think in every rostova that
• 18:10
  there's even the most was I don't like new Earth.
• 18:13
  I'm not that Keen on the last thing in new I think.
• 18:17
  Yeah yeah II we put quite a lot slots and I don't think there's
• 18:24
  a I love that it allows me to do that.
• 18:27
  I think anything that the exercise You're sort of
• 18:31
  emotional glands is is healthy, there's nothing worse than
• 18:34
  repressed and motive, you know, if you if you don't exercise
• 18:37
  your physical muscles, your muscles, atrophy in, you're not
• 18:40
  very strong. If you don't, if your emotions,
• 18:42
  don't get an outlet, either through laughter, or through
• 18:44
  tears, I think you're a less healthy.
• 18:48
  There's a cathode as a catharsis to laughter.
• 18:51
  A, that's why we put ourselves into two, dramas and noise.
• 18:56
  They have way better themselves in them.
• 18:58
  Yeah, absolutely. Safe Way.
• 19:00
  Oh, absolutely of draining the lacrimosa T or or tickling the
• 19:05
  tickling, the funny bone. You know, I've never heard of
• 19:08
  who described quite that way before, but I don't know if
• 19:11
  there's even such a word as lacrimosa.
• 19:13
  Nothing unique. This moment of anyway she pulls
• 19:16
  off the veil fabulous. It's I really kind of screw if
• 19:21
  yeah. Yeah, exactly.
• 19:23
  And again it's like the sort of picks.
• 19:25
  It's almost like a pixelated, you know, recovered file or
• 19:29
  whatever. It's a such a Her idea that and
• 19:32
  a very of the time idea, the idea of something being backed
• 19:35
  up to a disk or, you know, saved in memory.
• 19:38
  I say this, I'm in the room where I'm surrounded by external
• 19:44
  hard drives where I, every now and again, I have a moment of
• 19:47
  paranoia and I dump everything on to this external hard drive.
• 19:51
  So, if something goes wrong way, I haven't lost it.
• 19:53
  I don't actually have a sister. I could do with the library, I
• 19:56
  probably backed up some files 100 times and some of any got
• 19:59
  one, Sample up and I have to look really hard for it.
• 20:03
  I'd rather save something three times than not, not at all II.
• 20:08
  Can't say this enough that cityscape.
• 20:10
  It's amazing. I never forget in gridlock at
• 20:14
  the end where the camera swooped up and showed the city of
• 20:19
  Newark. Yeah, yeah.
• 20:21
  Well I just couldn't believe, this was Doctor Who I was
• 20:24
  watching and it's seamless as well.
• 20:26
  It's seamless, that's the beauty of it, it's all really
• 20:29
  beautiful. It's great together.
• 20:31
  There's a sequence here is a where David Tennant it when the
• 20:33
  doctor is hanging. Yeah, down from one of the
• 20:36
  cheese with the whole city scape around its yeah TK's that's
• 20:40
  fabulous. Oh, now there's this, is this
• 20:44
  the bit where he says the Vashta Nerada, you know, before you
• 20:50
  start on me? My perhaps you should look me up
• 20:52
  at all of these books and then is that hero?
• 20:55
  Is that a bit later? Where I think that's a bit later
• 20:57
  when he's well, he's threatening them.
• 20:59
  But as I am not of all of those, you know, I have the doctor from
• 21:03
  Gallifrey in the constellation of kasterborous.
• 21:05
  All those big puffy speeches that David, I think that's one
• 21:08
  of the best ones. You know, I think it is.
• 21:11
  It's beautiful. Is very well written and what a
• 21:14
  threat. I'm the doctor look me up and
• 21:16
  that pup. But can I confess something to
• 21:18
  you? Go on.
• 21:20
  It's just between us and it sounds like I'm took, these are
• 21:23
  two of my favorite episodes, but we are, we want to talk about
• 21:26
  all of the things that that interest us with Doctor, Who I
• 21:32
  prefer my doctor to be an accidental hero rather than a
• 21:39
  lofty. God, I And I'm talking and I
• 21:43
  think we create the doctor in our own image.
• 21:45
  So you know, I'm delighted to see shooting at Wahoo, I've not
• 21:49
  seen anything and I think looks like he's got the Charisma and
• 21:53
  the charm and obviously the acting chops to play the doctor.
• 21:57
  There's part of me, that's a bit sad that he's buff because
• 22:02
  everybody on television is buff. I'm somebody that struggled back
• 22:05
  and forth with with with keeping in trim because I don't smoke
• 22:09
  anymore, don't drink anymore. So I used my body.
• 22:12
  Food and I know a lot of people who are a normal body shaper,
• 22:15
  when you were watching Doctor Who back in the day.
• 22:18
  So the friend of mine is just watching something on be before
• 22:20
  thing with Michael Bryant and l.a.
• 22:21
  Marin and Colin Baker. And he said, oh it's so nice to
• 22:23
  see. Michael Bryan has a normal body
• 22:25
  shape because actors in those days didn't have to have a
• 22:28
  six-pack and Doctor Who to me was always there that you could
• 22:34
  aspire to be if you weren't good at the things that traditional
• 22:39
  confident people were good at the sporty.
• 22:42
  You kids were buff and they were sporty and they were confident
• 22:45
  because sport was a language that kids speak very fluently
• 22:48
  and if you can't, you need somebody.
• 22:51
  Who's your hero who doesn't do those things.
• 22:53
  Romance was a language that the alpha kids and the good-looking
• 22:56
  kids spoke well and negotiated, well, because they were
• 23:01
  confident or or you know, excited Enough by the prospect
• 23:05
  of it that they could put themselves to it and social
• 23:07
  enough that they could do. So if you didn't have that, you
• 23:09
  needed a hero who didn't do the romantics things.
• 23:11
  So I'm very You know, painting a picture of my own childhood, not
• 23:14
  sporty very shy with girls a book reading.
• 23:20
  You know, it's like wimpy, you know, it's a bookish bookish
• 23:27
  type and it seemed to me that who wasn't violent, you know, it
• 23:31
  seems to me that that's what Doctor Who did.
• 23:33
  So when Doctor Who is hugely confident, it makes me take a
• 23:39
  step back. Now, that's not to say that Tom
• 23:41
  Baker and all the others. Old doctors don't have their
• 23:43
  moments of being confident and lofty, but I didn't I chose to
• 23:47
  ignore those or I do for whatever reason but so I just
• 23:51
  find those speeches a little bit.
• 23:53
  That's fantastic. And that all the kids being the
• 23:56
  same in the playground is fantastic.
• 23:58
  But I've just, I just have a slight caveat with that.
• 24:01
  It's almost like the Nerds are reclaiming, the space by don't
• 24:05
  actually wear amazing. But actually, what when you are
• 24:08
  a nerd, when you are feeling a bit left out, That that, that
• 24:13
  message doesn't make me that that message makes me lose my
• 24:17
  identification because I don't feel that confident.
• 24:20
  And I don't feel that brave or, no, don't feel all of those
• 24:23
  things because he's using weapons.
• 24:25
  I don't have if you see what I mean.
• 24:27
  Why do you think the series leads into that?
• 24:30
  Then so much in the and there are a lot of those speeches.
• 24:33
  Everyone gets their hero moment, don't they now because I'm just
• 24:37
  being a hero and doing incredible things because I
• 24:40
  think it is almost Most Revenge of the Nerds, you know?
• 24:44
  It's the doctor The doctor Doctor Who came back and was
• 24:51
  hugely successful and proved that you could have this kind of
• 24:54
  hero and this kind of intelligent imaginative
• 24:58
  television. So why wouldn't you go and isn't
• 25:01
  this amazing? But actually, one of the many
• 25:03
  since it's amazing, it's because I love, you know, Tom Baker's
• 25:07
  I've saved planets mostly, you know, and it's sort of almost
• 25:10
  accidental knockabout way of doing it, and I know that
• 25:13
  there's some cognitive dissonance going on here because
• 25:15
  I'm ignoring B in the classic series.
• 25:19
  That don't fit that Narrative of mine but I'm just trying to
• 25:22
  explain why I slightly step back from that element of the doctors
• 25:27
  characterization. Even though I find the way that
• 25:29
  it shot the way that it's scripted and the brilliant way
• 25:32
  the David Tennant does life that I Am the Doctor, utterly
• 25:35
  compelling, it's when I go away and think about it.
• 25:38
  So I'm not saying it takes me out the story.
• 25:40
  I didn't you know I think it's wrong or bad.
• 25:43
  I'm just talking about my own personal.
• 25:45
  I'm reaction to the Keratin like I love with the second doctor
• 25:48
  that he Dresses, like a tramp and talk into the scene and
• 25:52
  yeah, absolutely. This is running those scenes,
• 25:55
  you know, yesterday and it's that the doctor is, I think as
• 26:00
  is their most interesting when everybody around them
• 26:04
  underestimates them, it's the Colombo thing.
• 26:06
  It's when, you know, I think Todd maker is glorious in
• 26:10
  Androids of Tyra, for example in it and I think it was a
• 26:12
  discontinuity guide or somebody, you know, row tab.
• 26:15
  It's the ultimate where kids breeziness and it says, Fun is
• 26:20
  is hiding. You know the calculating the
• 26:22
  agenda and it's that the fact that the doctor walks into the
• 26:25
  room like a fool but is actually the cleverest person in the room
• 26:29
  but will never show it and that's what makes the baddies
• 26:32
  underestimate the daughter. You know if same season I love
• 26:35
  the scenes in the Rebus operation where Ramona comes in
• 26:39
  and she's like your Star Trek out.
• 26:40
  She's beautiful. She's the smartest person in the
• 26:43
  room. She's very capable.
• 26:45
  He's there again dressed a bit like a tramp.
• 26:47
  It was terrible at school. He's petulant, he's childish.
• 26:51
  Yeah, he absolutely. You know, he's brilliant, he's a
• 26:55
  genius. Yeah, yeah.
• 26:59
  But you know, we were, I think we are all influenced by, you
• 27:03
  know, because the soap such a vast history of dr.
• 27:06
  We can all cherry pick any of it to fit our own.
• 27:08
  I was thinking of writing a podcast called Doctor Who made
• 27:11
  me right wing. Now I'm not remotely right wing
• 27:14
  but I think you could make that argument.
• 27:16
  I'll expel my coffee then. I'm not on the typical and you
• 27:21
  know, it wouldn't surprise you if my carpet wasn't made of the
• 27:24
  Guardian newspaper and stuff down with almost, you know.
• 27:27
  But but I think there's a I think there's a podcast.
• 27:31
  There's that there's a thesis to be written and I don't think
• 27:34
  that I've got, you know, I've had discussions with people and
• 27:39
  I can who are conservative, who the Doctor, Who is the doctor,
• 27:43
  who gives they take a conservative message from it and
• 27:46
  I can see that, but it's something.
• 27:48
  I'll Delta Phi, what is wrong and evil?
• 27:50
  And I'll blow it up. Did you go up?
• 27:51
  Get you know and the only reason I wouldn't do that is because I
• 27:56
  know some people wouldn't wouldn't listen to it long
• 27:58
  enough for me to do the U-turn before they take it to Twitter
• 28:01
  of coffee every day. But the sun because you because
• 28:04
  you can't you can't do something that doesn't give an immediate
• 28:07
  answer these days and but I think I think you could you
• 28:11
  could as convincingly say Doctor Who is a program about the you
• 28:16
  know, sort of conservative I did individual righting wrongs as I
• 28:21
  see it as about a very, you know, a liberal person trying
• 28:27
  to, you know, a benign alien who tries to make the universe, a
• 28:31
  better place with creativity and wit, and intelligence and
• 28:34
  empathy, and understanding that is your way of doing this
• 28:37
  popcorn for, you know, because I've had so many different
• 28:39
  people on that approach Doctor Who in so many different
• 28:42
  directions. Everyone's got a different
• 28:45
  reading on it. Yeah, and what I find sad and
• 28:49
  disquieting about the modern discourse.
• 28:51
  Is that the refusal to see that somebody else is view that you
• 28:58
  disagree with is a difference of opinion, rather than an
• 29:04
  exhibition of faceted factors or whatever.
• 29:07
  And of course there are some things where it's not a
• 29:09
  difference of opinion. If somebody does something
• 29:11
  awfully racist, that's not that I have a difference of opinion
• 29:14
  with somebody who just sees the world in a different way and and
• 29:17
  and, you know, I understand the need to call Racism for
• 29:19
  whatever. But but when when somebody sees,
• 29:22
  somebody's appreciation of a particular aspect of Doctor Who
• 29:26
  as a sign of a personality flaw or a wrongness of, there's that
• 29:30
  eats calling out. I think we think we need to dial
• 29:32
  it down a little bit and I think it's a shame.
• 29:36
  That's why I will always point out information of the dinosaurs
• 29:39
  randomly. As I love that story because
• 29:43
  you've got a very left-wing writer critiquing.
• 29:47
  The left absolutely In a very, very clever way.
• 29:51
  Yeah, it really is and it's but he's bold in doing that malka
• 29:55
  Vulcan going this. This is where my ideology goes
• 29:58
  wrong. If people aren't careful with it
• 30:00
  which is, which is smart writing.
• 30:02
  Here is Big, sums are brilliantly, goes with it.
• 30:05
  Right. Wingers, you know, they'll
• 30:06
  they'll tell you what's right and wrong but they're pretty
• 30:09
  open about it. The left-wingers, I'll tell you
• 30:11
  what's wrong. I'm wrong but it's for your own
• 30:13
  good. Yes.
• 30:14
  Now, he thinks. Yeah, that's that's very, very
• 30:17
  true identity. Yeah.
• 30:19
  That's been, that's a very tricky about it.
• 30:21
  A brilliant man, I'll play. So I can't believe people like
• 30:24
  him are gone, you know. So they'd live forever.
• 30:28
  I never let him. You know, I really love truly
• 30:30
  wish I had. Oh, he was an amazing fellow.
• 30:35
  Oh, Dopey. See ya, much missed.
• 30:39
  And, and, again, so easy to take for granted because he was the
• 30:42
  name on the spines of. So many book covers was talking
• 30:45
  to a friend today about the horror of fang, Rocky together.
• 30:47
  So many brilliant lines in that we forget your because we know
• 30:50
  that funny Robert Holmes isn't have funny, Steven Moffat is but
• 30:53
  actually Terrance dicks was not averse to a fantastic line here
• 30:57
  and there and a very pithy bit of characterization know.
• 31:00
  I think even in those that saw him come went away from forest
• 31:03
  and the dead now. But who cares?
• 31:05
  I think in those latter Tom Baker that are fairly lambasted,
• 31:09
  aren't they? Those Target novels that he
• 31:11
  wrote whereas kind of like the script with a bit of prose.
• 31:15
  Yeah he sets a scene like vividly.
• 31:19
  In a paragraph. Yeah, that is no small skill and
• 31:22
  he also irons that some kicks as well.
• 31:25
  You can get a soda, I'm going to sort this.
• 31:27
  I'm gonna sort this one out. You don't remember the a Droid
• 31:29
  Invasion the last page where he literally wrote a paragraph was
• 31:32
  like what they're going to sort this out and then yeah the a
• 31:35
  Droid Invasion was over in forest of the date.
• 31:43
  Well this is the opened up there so we're Going to learn about
• 31:52
  what's happening at the heart of it.
• 31:54
  Don't we? Oh, and what and what's
• 31:56
  happening with Donna that we were talking to it.
• 31:58
  Yeah. Miss Evangelista with the
• 31:59
  monster face and all of the kit and then Lighting on this.
• 32:02
  Look at the red Lighting on this.
• 32:03
  Absolutely gorgeous. But that that seen an all the
• 32:06
  kids being the same two kids in the playground.
• 32:08
  I've interviewed the young lad by the way, really?
• 32:11
  Yeah, he was his mum's. Absolutely lovely.
• 32:16
  And knows, Andrew Smith in wrote full circle.
• 32:19
  She was a mama, his kids school or something.
• 32:22
  But anyway, they've got chatting and he said, I don't suppose he
• 32:24
  do it. Intimate was when I was doing my
• 32:25
  who's trapped podcast, he's and he sort of jumping.
• 32:28
  I said, Jordan interview one of the kids and she said, look, you
• 32:30
  won't be able to. Yeah it was he's still a kid
• 32:33
  when I interviewed him. He was still a kid but we did a
• 32:35
  sort of 10-15 minute chat and his mum was so happy that he'd
• 32:39
  done it and and and yeah so I guess I've interviewed this lad
• 32:46
  and I isn't it It don't think that there is a pair of the card
• 32:53
  buy into what they're doing here, which is the threat to the
• 32:56
  home and then the threats of the children and then the children
• 32:59
  being gone. This see now?
• 33:02
  I mean, yeah, it's again, it's he's very good at hitting on
• 33:07
  Primal fears and there's no more pressure, you know that.
• 33:12
  Yeah. The dust in the light that crack
• 33:14
  in the wall that right over. But losing a chuckle, losing
• 33:18
  your child. Let your child children being
• 33:20
  snapped for you and she is amazing.
• 33:22
  She retired priming sugar. Yeah, she's in Doctor Who this
• 33:27
  isn't this the show that gave us that happiness?
• 33:30
  Patroller the Android infection and Celestial toymaker.
• 33:34
  This is, you know, this is going.
• 33:36
  Think anybody expected that rawness from her?
• 33:38
  Oh but and and the emotion is there but it never makes you
• 33:44
  think I'm not watching the same show or the right show you know.
• 33:49
  I don't fit, I don't like more ksh drama.
• 33:52
  And I think sometimes, you know, Star Trek for example, I think
• 33:56
  can sometimes descend into sentimentality a bit, but I
• 33:59
  think that's different from raw, human emotion and this dust.
• 34:03
  Brilliant, be fear. I think the new series can be
• 34:06
  guilty of being more, ksh on the occasion.
• 34:09
  Tell me where, tell me what you're probably, all right, I'm
• 34:11
  sure, I think some of the doctor, the Widow and the
• 34:15
  Wardrobe is a me Like the end of Night.
• 34:19
  Terrors also have conquers all ending.
• 34:23
  Yeah, it's a bit too much of this.
• 34:26
  By the way, is where Steve Pemberton.
• 34:28
  I think really comes into himself.
• 34:30
  I think he's excellent in this scene and I find this
• 34:35
  incredibly. I've been incredibly moving idea
• 34:39
  that the idea of a Dying child that you've decided to save or
• 34:45
  to keep alive by backing up on the computer.
• 34:48
  I fine unbearably moving because it's it's a sort of Act of
• 34:53
  humanity and kindness, but that also is a compromised, because
• 34:58
  because it's not the same as life, but they've done it.
• 35:02
  They've done it. And I think that, I think, the
• 35:06
  way it does that line is excellent, the ideal and the
• 35:09
  real emotion that you shows here, I think is really, really
• 35:12
  good. It's a really good piece of
• 35:13
  acting and, and it's a really fantastic scene.
• 35:17
  And you think The secrets that have been kept in this story,
• 35:20
  all the Mysteries at the heart of it is a is a sort of
• 35:24
  beautiful but very sad. Act bread from tragedy that is
• 35:29
  glorious. One of my favorite Cafe Kinks
• 35:33
  off shakings. When I'm watching TV is a
• 35:37
  narrative which introduces a lot of elements and then everything
• 35:42
  slots into place perfectly in One Moment Like This.
• 35:46
  Yeah. And I don't think Doctor Who Who
• 35:48
  does that very often? Let's see, your death is a great
• 35:51
  example, where in the latter episode solve, all of those all
• 35:56
  that stuff, you don't know what's going on and then he
• 35:59
  comes walking in the room. And goes, it's no longer in the
• 36:01
  Louvre, a hundred million dollars.
• 36:05
  We're going to make the equipment, we're going to go
• 36:06
  back in, tighten it all just slots perfectly into place and
• 36:10
  this does it as well. It's one of the hard to hard
• 36:14
  things about writing a doctor who is you know, explaining the
• 36:18
  mystery Without everybody just sitting down and telling it to
• 36:22
  each other. Well there's or excitement but
• 36:25
  but the thing is all this explanation here is backed up by
• 36:29
  the emotion of the concept. So it's not just info dumping
• 36:34
  because it's telling a sad story.
• 36:35
  So if you're getting your Exposition out with something
• 36:38
  that has emotional consequences then it's suddenly not
• 36:41
  Exposition, you're getting the explanation, you having all of
• 36:44
  the mystery solved which is interesting, but it could be
• 36:47
  quite boring if it's just a little Lecture, but this is not
• 36:50
  a lecture because all that information comes in with this
• 36:52
  very sad family story background and that is very very clever
• 36:57
  because you're doing a necessary evil well but you're making a
• 37:01
  virtue of it. And and again that that's not
• 37:04
  easy to do that is that is Premier League rating.
• 37:09
  And boy are we lucky that we have prairie early writers?
• 37:12
  Absolutely. Absolutely.
• 37:14
  They see a show. Yeah.
• 37:16
  And this bit so awful because and this reveal is brilliant.
• 37:22
  As he's already designated. Yeah, she's yeah.
• 37:24
  She's gone. And and he and he And he does
• 37:30
  that brilliant leaders tenant, but but yeah, again, he sort of
• 37:34
  explaining the plot but then there's a sucker punch because
• 37:38
  he's explaining the plot because he's actually not having a
• 37:41
  conversation with who we think he's having a conversation with
• 37:44
  excellent about as well, of just twisting it.
• 37:47
  Like I do remember an empty child and where it's like he's
• 37:51
  talking and he goes all the tape ended a little while ago.
• 37:53
  Yeah, you know. Yeah.
• 37:56
  But I remember my other half at that time was He was not
• 38:00
  particularly sympathetic to Doctor Who but she would she
• 38:02
  would watch it. And I remember that her gripping
• 38:05
  my arm and I was go, this is good.
• 38:08
  If she likes this this if she is it that this is good.
• 38:11
  My ex-husband, the best moment of this I could think of in a
• 38:14
  mafia script was you're not looking at the Statue anymore,
• 38:18
  me free you. But yeah, yeah, he's he's so
• 38:24
  good at that. He's so good at the monster
• 38:26
  under the bed stuff and it Because dr.
• 38:30
  At the end of the day Doctor Who has to be suitable for has to be
• 38:34
  suitable for children. It's not a children's show as We
• 38:38
  Know Drama Department, bloody bloody bloody about but the
• 38:40
  minute it loses sight of children children.
• 38:43
  The children it's lost because doctor who gets you when you're
• 38:45
  a kid and some people outgrow it and some people don't but our
• 38:49
  enjoyment of it is I still think tied in a lot of the time and
• 38:53
  obviously I'm now going to exclude, anybody that came to
• 38:55
  the show late and I again this is all filtered through my own.
• 38:59
  But I think for a lot of people, it's that memory of childhood a
• 39:03
  childhood, which is scary. But then, as an adult, you
• 39:06
  realize actually it's the safest to affect forbidden away
• 39:09
  protected from from some of the horrible rigors of the outside
• 39:12
  world. And again, that's not to
• 39:14
  exclude, the experience of people that had dangerous
• 39:16
  childhoods or whatever. But, but I'm talking in the sort
• 39:19
  of one sort of metaphorical sense of where you are as a kid
• 39:23
  and I love. I'm a sucker for a self
• 39:26
  sacrifice anything where somebody Like Road, get in the
• 39:29
  Ark in space. Anyone that knock somebody out
• 39:32
  in order to then sacrifice themselves?
• 39:34
  I love it. In fact, it's how I want to die.
• 39:38
  I want to die on a spaceship, that's about to crash into a
• 39:41
  planet and I want to I want to be more clear injured.
• 39:45
  I don't want to get everybody else off the spaceship.
• 39:47
  Say, don't waste your time on me.
• 39:49
  Yeah, that's how I want to go. I will try my best but wait,
• 39:56
  yeah, has to be done well. Because, yeah, the
• 40:00
  self-sacrifice and it do you remember Co shammes in the
• 40:03
  Timeless children? Random character just popped in
• 40:06
  at the end of? He'll go.
• 40:07
  Why don't you go? I'll do what you mean.
• 40:08
  The one that spent the whole two parts going?
• 40:10
  I'm so old now it would be okay if I die.
• 40:14
  Yeah, I mean that's precisely how not to do it.
• 40:16
  I'm afraid here they set up the decreases entire history between
• 40:20
  these Hebrew just because it's don't remember, it's still
• 40:22
  there. This is a death that has some
• 40:24
  meaning and absolutely has more meaning The more we go into the
• 40:29
  series now? Well, I mean, what's so clever
• 40:32
  about it is that We've only just met her and yet we absolutely
• 40:40
  feel this loss to cracking actors.
• 40:43
  But the way that it is written and the way that this uses the
• 40:46
  time-travel stuff element element really cleverly.
• 40:49
  So I you know again I'm going slightly back on some of my
• 40:54
  criticisms of how Moffat employs time traveling in this regards,
• 40:58
  this idea of something that is so that has gone on a so of such
• 41:04
  great importance. We do not see.
• 41:07
  But that is totally communicated to us, is so moving and and it's
• 41:13
  parallel with Donna's story where that we've sort of seen
• 41:16
  their life but in edited highlights.
• 41:18
  And now, it's kind of not going to happen and not real and did
• 41:22
  the way this is 0. Come on, I'll give you a holler
• 41:39
  at. You know what, my my other half
• 41:42
  is it does not really watch Doctor Who with me ice, I'm
• 41:48
  watching this. I sort of want to go.
• 41:50
  I want to watch this with her and go.
• 41:51
  You just watched this, you'll love this.
• 41:54
  This is it though. This is extraordinary.
• 41:57
  You know, I've embarked on the the strangeness of thing, you
• 42:00
  know, in the last six months, I am now in a relationship with
• 42:02
  another Doctor Who fan oh Gods no terabit, honestly A
• 42:07
  conversation could be the end of this relationship.
• 42:09
  Absolutely. Do you know what?
• 42:11
  I find deeply moving out is when we cut back to David Tennant.
• 42:15
  Looking at River and it's completely sign.
• 42:17
  It's all in tenants face. Yeah, we need to see, we know
• 42:21
  they're this. Oh Pierce, such a good actor.
• 42:25
  He's my old moving, he's not moving.
• 42:27
  Well that's you know that's the value of silence and Stillness.
• 42:32
  That is that only, you know, really, really good actors.
• 42:35
  I think understand. Sometimes because the Temptation
• 42:38
  is to go and I show it all, you know, but of course, the reality
• 42:42
  is, that is totally empty there. You know?
• 42:44
  And again like we really haven't spoken about your asleep.
• 42:49
  Terrific, but, you know, he's gauging every single.
• 42:52
  See ya perfectly here. Remember with this manjistha
• 42:55
  died and the cameras lot of pulled up.
• 42:57
  It made it, didn't it. Absolutely was a nice slow, pull
• 43:01
  back. This is the signals talking
• 43:04
  about. I love the way these to talk to
• 43:06
  each other. She goes.
• 43:07
  Are you okay? He's like yeah I'm all right.
• 43:10
  She goes is that time those talk for?
• 43:12
  You're not. All right at all.
• 43:13
  It's so great. Yeah.
• 43:18
  We've managed to win. So as well yeah they've got it.
• 43:25
  They have a great day, have a great back and forth day and
• 43:30
  they've been pulled apart for like a whole episode here.
• 43:32
  Yeah, in fact, they're about to 42 more on.
• 43:34
  They midnight and turn. Yeah, but I love the way it's
• 43:37
  played where they're just sort of, you know, they're saying it
• 43:41
  without needing to over, say it. I'm all right, too.
• 43:45
  I never remember the moment, of course you do, where she chooses
• 43:50
  to make the choice with him and puts her hands on his.
• 43:52
  Yeah, that was the moment that man, this relationship is gold.
• 43:58
  Oh, here we go, us. Yeah.
• 44:04
  And there's a, there's a moment here where he goes down to the
• 44:08
  diary and he gives her at like a manic look.
• 44:13
  And it's the most doctorate look.
• 44:15
  I can think of look at the close up on his face and a minute
• 44:17
  where he's saying, should we look inside?
• 44:19
  He sort of playing with his tongue.
• 44:21
  It's it's terrific. And of course, you think the
• 44:26
  story's over here? Mmm, in fact that they directors
• 44:30
  in on it because he put, he closes in on the book.
• 44:33
  There's a narration from River song.
• 44:36
  Yeah. And it all fit and they're
• 44:38
  walking away. It's a brilliant.
• 44:40
  Brilliant. Sleight of hand.
• 44:43
  Yeah, it's a great. It's the doctor literally saying
• 44:48
  I will not let the story ends here, you know?
• 44:50
  Yeah, yeah. Heroic.
• 44:52
  But that, I'm not happy with how this has ended.
• 44:54
  I'm gonna check And it makes absolutely perfect sense.
• 45:00
  Now, I'm not sure how happy I am with the idea that life being
• 45:06
  saved in a computer program is, is life.
• 45:09
  But is that is that the essential tragedy at the heart
• 45:12
  of it that it is a compromised saving, you know, which is,
• 45:16
  which is it but they all look happy enough in there.
• 45:19
  But they've all got a taste for beige and white to suddenly in
• 45:21
  the afterlife. You're all very, very orangey.
• 45:25
  Comfort. But they're perfect.
• 45:28
  Hot name is. Yeah, me some spare and
• 45:30
  everyone's you know, it's ironed out everybody's flaws.
• 45:33
  But it's a it's such a great idea and actually That would be
• 45:40
  a great closing shot, wouldn't it?
• 45:41
  Yeah. And I like Doctor Who when it's
• 45:44
  dark and when it's tragic and when it has a pessimistic
• 45:48
  ending, but actually really, I like dr.
• 45:52
  Who, when there's life? There's hope, you know, I like
• 45:56
  to show whether the lead character, never actually dies,
• 45:59
  but transforms ultimately Doctor Who's very optimistic.
• 46:04
  But anyway, something like I don't know episode 12 of the
• 46:07
  darling master plan here. Because it's so dark.
• 46:11
  Yeah, but because that's a, that's a, it's a bit like the
• 46:17
  violence of Season 22, which I love that time.
• 46:20
  I was talking to a friend about it.
• 46:21
  Today, we go. But actually, when it starts
• 46:23
  when it's so when it's not the exception.
• 46:26
  Yeah. Well, it's the normal becomes a
• 46:27
  bit of a problem. It's the fact that you can have
• 46:30
  the odd story. That's a bit darker or a bit
• 46:32
  violent, but when you go, shall we do that all of the time?
• 46:35
  You then lose sight of what it is that you were doing a
• 46:38
  contrast. To and it is there no longer a
• 46:40
  contrast but I think this is good and it's a wonderful hero
• 46:45
  moment for the doctor and look at his face when he smiles a cow
• 46:50
  now I just can't think of a more dr.
• 46:53
  Ish look so sweet. Look at that.
• 46:57
  And she's good. The girl, I don't think it's
• 47:00
  done anything else Place Cal and she's excellent.
• 47:06
  She should have never went to play the younger version of
• 47:08
  clari, you know. Looks very large Stars actually
• 47:10
  yeah. But yes, I didn't watch it is
• 47:13
  about the computer world where they all are for all their
• 47:18
  friends, where all their friends were white.
• 47:21
  You sort of like a shorthand for heaven.
• 47:24
  Like yeah, absolutely, yeah. But they're obviously not going
• 47:29
  to be playing any contact Sports in that Garden because that
• 47:36
  Cardigans gonna stain immediately.
• 47:39
  All right guys, let's play around the rugby.
• 47:41
  Let's go. But it is very sweet and I
• 47:45
  really feel like you've got to know these people and there's a
• 47:48
  warmth to this to this Ensemble. That is very, very sweet.
• 47:52
  Even though, you know, they're characters that between the
• 47:56
  don't have an awful lot of lines or things to do, but I think it
• 47:59
  that they've created A really lovely Ensemble with these guys,
• 48:02
  I heard the criticism that you know are going into everybody
• 48:05
  lives again is only happened once before.
• 48:09
  And I actually, I think it's quite brave because death is
• 48:13
  often a sort of shorthand for drama in Doctor.
• 48:17
  Who let's, let's throw in a death here and I could think of
• 48:20
  a couple of examples, you know, recently converted but that's
• 48:23
  actually I feel, sorry, I'm satisfied by that because you've
• 48:27
  obviously just done it because you needed a dramatic moment and
• 48:30
  I think that cheapens it a little bit and I think it's
• 48:33
  quite Brave of more fat actually to not give us that money shot
• 48:37
  of the moment of self-sacrifice tore.
• 48:39
  The moment of that or the fact that we're sad because that nice
• 48:42
  character died and to actually go, I'm going to have to rely on
• 48:45
  telling the story without falling back, on the death of
• 48:49
  the loss of supporting characters, who are, you know,
• 48:51
  easily sort of probable for For the in a story and it makes it
• 48:58
  slightly unusual. And I'm okay with that, I like
• 49:01
  here, where he does a sort of a unique spin on that line with
• 49:04
  the Weeping Angels where you kill them with kindness you just
• 49:07
  send them back in time when they're still live a life.
• 49:09
  So and the point where they were sent back in time, they could be
• 49:11
  dead. Yeah.
• 49:12
  Yeah. That's very yeah.
• 49:16
  Beautiful ending as well. Where she turns the light out
• 49:18
  and says good night. Yeah, it is very sweet.
• 49:25
  And yes, and that was the last. We have a sort of River Song
• 49:30
  became of her in my foolish, misreading of which, as I say,
• 49:35
  why should never never quite be trusted.
• 49:38
  Oh, he's probably. Oh my God, it's a good story.
• 49:45
  The Run from unicorn and the WASP through to the stolen
• 49:48
  Earth. It was an extraordinary time to
• 49:52
  be a doctor who fan. And you know what, at this time
• 49:56
  I was also touring moths ate, my Doctor Who scarf.
• 50:00
  In fact, I had to miss midnight because my show was on at the
• 50:02
  same time, but bless Chris Cassell into some of this CGI on
• 50:07
  the on the DVD Ze. He brought me it on disk so I
• 50:13
  could watch it that night. But so Not only was Doctor Who
• 50:17
  at its peak. I was too.
• 50:19
  A show about Doctor Who and having an absent.
• 50:23
  So professionally was having a wonderful, but Doctor Who
• 50:26
  related time either. I don't think my life's never
• 50:29
  been better, your professional and your entertainment was ice,
• 50:36
  please. But all and all to do with this
• 50:39
  series, you know. So, you know, the series was on
• 50:42
  and riding high and I was doing a show about the series.
• 50:46
  You know, when I went to that, when I went to the west end with
• 50:48
  the show, David Lieutenant recorded a voiceover for it, so
• 50:51
  it's see. It just my timing is, then my
• 50:55
  timing seemed to be absolutely spot-on as seem to time doing
• 50:58
  that show with a time when when Doctor Who was you're gonna was
• 51:01
  on everybody's lips. So yeah, I've felt a sort of
• 51:06
  weird sense of belonging and and that things are going right that
• 51:10
  I've never quite felt before us it.
• 51:12
  There we go. I had a moment at one moment
• 51:14
  Joe. Okay, just remember with each
• 51:17
  successive episode I was like, well, it's never gonna As good
• 51:20
  as that next week, every week. I was like, what is going on?
• 51:24
  I know it's my turn left, which I think is still my all-time
• 51:29
  favorite new series episode really I've absolutely loved him
• 51:33
  there for a million reasons. I did that one with Johnny
• 51:37
  Morris, such a smart reading of that that has one of my favorite
• 51:44
  scenes in doctor of all time, can you guess which one it is?
• 51:48
  It's not will doing the solute that scene, is it?
• 51:51
  It's the same. Yeah, we're Rocco goes right,
• 51:53
  and the two men are putting on a brave face and and it's Joseph
• 51:59
  long as well when he sort of nods but it could hands as if to
• 52:01
  say I know and you know that I'm stuffed, but we can't let on and
• 52:08
  that moment of connection between the two men I think is
• 52:13
  phenomenal. You know, I think it's Ken's.
• 52:15
  Not I need, it's a performance. It's that so still and yet is
• 52:20
  the bit where Donna comes in and Sylvia's broken and the cameras
• 52:25
  on her? Yeah.
• 52:26
  And she goes, I'll probably disappoint you.
• 52:28
  And she all she says is. Yeah, oh God, yeah, so good.
• 52:35
  If we can attempt of that with was coming up from Rusty Davis.
• 52:38
  I'm happy, although, I gotta say, I don't think I've ever had
• 52:43
  a more sort of got reaction of excitement.
• 52:47
  Than the Sullen Earth. Yes, yes.
• 52:51
  Oh, where they were Brigid when it was like, Sara that it was
• 52:55
  Jack and that it was awesome. I can't handle this anymore.
• 52:58
  Oh, anything where the opening titles also going with and
• 53:03
  Elisabeth sladen. You know what?
• 53:06
  This is. Oh, oh, oh yeah.
• 53:10
  The what a time to be a doctor who fan?
• 53:14
  Well, I'm gonna have to ask you to do what we do at the end.
• 53:17
  Days. And that is to give me three
• 53:19
  reasons why you would recommend silence in the library and
• 53:22
  Forrester that you could probably give me 15 will do
• 53:26
  three apiece. You then meet you.
• 53:28
  There me, well, I the Miss Evangelista ghosting seen, just
• 53:36
  because I think it has everything in it from a very
• 53:42
  intelligent, a well-thought-out science fiction idea, emotion
• 53:47
  Brilliant acting sadness and then the bathos of the fact that
• 53:51
  if that last thought is ice cream so it's got that sort of
• 53:53
  mordant wit to it as well and and the lighting in that scene
• 53:57
  as well in the music, it's a compliment to everything that
• 54:00
  Doctor Who at its best does extremely.
• 54:02
  Well, I'm going to be throwing a little broader and that is just
• 54:06
  the collection of fantastic and creative ideas that are in this,
• 54:11
  you know, the ghosting. The Vashta, Nerada the Instead
• 54:18
  of plot, I just think nothing is a he's probably the best ideas
• 54:22
  man we've ever had. And here, he's just knocking out
• 54:26
  one after another and they all work and it all comes together
• 54:31
  as a very beautiful sort of jigsaw puzzle that lie.
• 54:34
  I just think it's marvelous. So essentially what you've done
• 54:37
  there Joe is, you got so totally I've chosen everything to you.
• 54:47
  But you can also just use a moment as well.
• 54:50
  Yeah, I think I think that, that Moffat thing of Primal Fear
• 54:58
  Shadows dust in the light, the piranha nurse of the, of the, of
• 55:04
  the, of the stripping of the chicken bone skeleton in a suit.
• 55:08
  It's so many of those things that tap into and we talked
• 55:13
  about the skeleton, the suit being a parody of human form.
• 55:15
  And that's the similar thing with dr.
• 55:16
  The faces in the In the nodes, those things that I think get to
• 55:21
  the very core of what doctor who does well, is it Taps into our
• 55:25
  Primal fears, and then attacks them with wit and a sense of
• 55:30
  adventure. But I think more fat is
• 55:32
  particularly good at choosing the, the sort of number of his
• 55:36
  threat is usually housed in something lurking in our
• 55:42
  Collective. Memories often from childhood
• 55:45
  and good ear. I'm Gonna Go Far Or less brought
• 55:48
  this time then and say Donna Noble, bringing the screen back
• 55:52
  to Doctor Who she must because on first transmission, it
• 55:57
  chilled my bucket idea had no clue what was going on, and
• 56:00
  that's green, just ran through me.
• 56:03
  But just that moment in itself, that's my second.
• 56:09
  I think I 6 the brilliant idea. And let's divorce it from from
• 56:18
  from what was to come. Because a time of watching the
• 56:20
  first time, we didn't know, I think it's a brilliant idea.
• 56:24
  Considering I spent some of this criticizing my fat suit of time
• 56:28
  travel. It is that brilliant idea of
• 56:31
  going, he's a time traveler. So he meets somebody for the
• 56:37
  first time who for them. It's the last time.
• 56:42
  And and and to tell that story in the way That I do in this and
• 56:48
  to absolutely earn that ending that they get wet, David
• 56:51
  Tennant, and Alex, Kingston are both absolutely brilliant and
• 56:55
  it's heartbreaking. And you have to remind yourself.
• 56:58
  We only met her last week and half, but you feel that, and you
• 57:03
  feel that even though it's not lying, it's he has only just met
• 57:07
  her. He met her when we did and yet
• 57:09
  you feel the absolute way to that.
• 57:12
  And part of that is to do with With those missing pieces, it's
• 57:17
  to do with the bits. You can only come and jerk
• 57:21
  through her description and her emotion.
• 57:23
  And so it's the fact that it's the noises off that are so
• 57:28
  compelling because it's often what you can't see.
• 57:31
  And don't say that really makes your imaginary forces get to
• 57:35
  work and I think that is a brilliant idea and it's a very
• 57:38
  clever use of Doctor Who's format to produce a dramatic and
• 57:43
  emotional storyline, which I It does very well and I am going to
• 57:49
  I feel as if I'm skipping over much more worthy of things to
• 57:52
  point out two lines and I'm choosing them because I think it
• 57:57
  exemplifies the confidence in moffatt's writing that he will
• 58:00
  hit with a fantastic joke in the middle of a tense moment without
• 58:06
  dispelling, the drama of the scene.
• 58:09
  My first is when the doctor and Donna are being like the Shadows
• 58:13
  are chasing them through and he's trying to her.
• 58:15
  Open the door and Donna just goes so it doesn't do words.
• 58:20
  Yes. She's cracking at those lines.
• 58:25
  That's troubled by the seeded emphasis in forest of the Dead
• 58:29
  where dollars inside the VR talking to visualizer and she
• 58:33
  just goes, well, I'd been diet in which it's just a brilliant
• 58:44
  piece of work. Really is old.
• 58:47
  It really is. It's a wonderful story.
• 58:49
  I'm glad we, I'm glad we chose it.
• 58:51
  How did we light up on it? Did you just did you give me a
• 58:54
  list or did I let you choose? Yeah, you choose to actually.
• 58:58
  And that gives me a perfect opportunity to say where we're
• 59:01
  going next. And I think you're very bold for
• 59:03
  your second choice, you forgot. I can see on your face.
• 59:06
  No, I've got a feeling, it's, I mean seeing as this is one of
• 59:11
  the rare two-parters of you who, so I've given 'Well, you know,
• 59:17
  I've had to think of double the amount of things to say, I I
• 59:20
  think I've ever over reached myself even more, haven't I was
• 59:25
  that what you're going to say next?
• 59:27
  You chose a seven-part, what the rescue?
• 59:36
  Yes, it's not for who and the silurians, which I think is an
• 59:41
  underrated story. I think it's amazing.
• 59:44
  I think You know, my favorite from That season is the
• 59:49
  ambassador's of death. I am a card-carrying
• 59:51
  ambassador's fan even though now many years later after my first
• 59:55
  one to go I probably have to be honest.
• 59:58
  And say I suspect I overlook some of its shortcomings in
• 1:00:02
  order to perhaps, beef it up a little bit more because I think
• 1:00:06
  it's more underrated than everything that surrounds it.
• 1:00:12
  And I think the more I've watched it, there are some folks
• 1:00:14
  that now become a parent No, but because when I was a time taught
• 1:00:18
  ambassador's was one of the few stories that it was okay to be
• 1:00:21
  critical about, you know. Because but that was largely
• 1:00:24
  because the production team have found it a bit of a nightmare.
• 1:00:26
  So it's like it's that rare thing stopped to story where
• 1:00:29
  some of the pop points are contradicted in later, episodes
• 1:00:31
  you go. It's actually no got no more of
• 1:00:33
  that than any other story. I think it's just the script
• 1:00:35
  development was so bad but it's such a good production.
• 1:00:38
  I remember when I first saw it expecting it to be this
• 1:00:41
  compromise thing and it's amazing.
• 1:00:44
  I love ambassador's of death. Well, I will kill anyone who
• 1:00:47
  disagrees, I would normally have the arrogance to do this, but
• 1:00:50
  I'm actually releasing the ambassador's of death in the
• 1:00:54
  coming weeks, my friend phrases the commentary of that and it
• 1:00:57
  was a Zinger where it's excellent.
• 1:00:59
  We both love it. Good, I think it was episode 5,
• 1:01:04
  it was a half an hour conversation about who killed
• 1:01:07
  Lennox. I mean excellent heading to when
• 1:01:14
  Lee more. Some point in the future.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah, I look forward to it. I'm very pleased to say as well.
• 1:01:19
  I some point going to be featuring on Happy Times and
• 1:01:23
  places. Yes, yes.
• 1:01:25
  What 20's? I chose Sharda?
• 1:01:29
  Yeah, 17. And I don't know, I just I felt
• 1:01:35
  as if initially, I felt as if the Jodie Whittaker was
• 1:01:38
  underrepresented but unrepresented, it is
• 1:01:43
  unrepresented soba. I've Want to do this week that
• 1:01:48
  Stephen szpakowski has nominated.
• 1:01:52
  And Stephen is marvelous. I've also taught in Korea has
• 1:01:55
  also chosen, Jodie Whittaker, but the one you've chosen is the
• 1:02:02
  most recent episode to have been chosen for happy times and
• 1:02:05
  places. So nobody's chosen anything more
• 1:02:09
  recent than your choice. So I need to I need to buckle
• 1:02:13
  down and do some work to get back.
• 1:02:15
  Just No Marco Polo. It's just under seven episodes
• 1:02:17
  of Rico so that's but that's that's in the distant future.
• 1:02:25
  That's that's that's on my patreon page.
• 1:02:27
  I think as we record this curse of peled on with Paul Cornell
• 1:02:31
  it's going out. So I lived through it today
• 1:02:33
  where you started that one by saying, you know, I like this a
• 1:02:36
  lot but it's not been one of my favorites are perfectly
• 1:02:38
  convinced by the end of the episode one.
• 1:02:40
  It was one of your favorites. Juno Juno, I depart mirror.
• 1:02:44
  I have a really odd. Relationship with I found it
• 1:02:46
  largely disappointing when I first watched them on video
• 1:02:49
  because I most of my doctor experience was to read the
• 1:02:52
  target books. First and then be slightly
• 1:02:54
  disappointed that the TV Persians were the say.
• 1:02:57
  But that's why I very much like to season seven, because those
• 1:03:00
  ones were the ones that I thought thought that with a more
• 1:03:03
  robust and gritty Productions that perhaps fitted tonally,
• 1:03:07
  perhaps a bit more with what? I imagined from the target
• 1:03:09
  books. So the sort of Barry Letts
• 1:03:12
  Pertwee era, I always found a slightly.
• 1:03:15
  Lee, a slightly compromised version of what I imagined was a
• 1:03:19
  far grittier thing, but I thought Mike Yates would be a
• 1:03:23
  tough guy and not Richard Frank. Ruggiero.
• 1:03:25
  I had them all together. A bit of a, I thought it was
• 1:03:28
  altogether a bit less sort of cozy at a bigger.
• 1:03:30
  So the Pertwee era I've always had a really odd relationship
• 1:03:34
  with and actually doing it for running through corridors first,
• 1:03:38
  but then doing it for this podcast, I've just done the sea
• 1:03:41
  Devils recently with Steve Hatcher and again, to see that
• 1:03:45
  was It's fine. It's fine.
• 1:03:47
  I adored it. And so, what's lovely is at the
• 1:03:52
  age of 48, having seen all these stories known to do two times is
• 1:03:55
  to come back to them. A lot of them, I haven't seen
• 1:03:58
  really sits Doctor Who came back, because where you're
• 1:04:01
  getting you, who, why would you want to look at all to?
• 1:04:04
  I did it with running through corridors but, you know, and to
• 1:04:08
  just find, I could come back to a story or come back to an Era
• 1:04:12
  and so almost get over myself. Because as I say you bring a lot
• 1:04:16
  of baggage when you when you're looking at something that you
• 1:04:19
  love and what expectations that you have and I'm and my
• 1:04:23
  interaction with the propria really suffered from that the
• 1:04:27
  problem of the time is near the huge expectations on.
• 1:04:30
  Yeah and then after you've seen it, you go back with far less
• 1:04:34
  expectation and find far more to enjoy and to treat it for what
• 1:04:38
  it is, not rather than what you're not be disappointed.
• 1:04:41
  But for an imprisoned for something you imposed upon it.
• 1:04:45
  And I do feel that which is why I'm always a bit reluctant to
• 1:04:48
  criticize any current iteration of Doctor Who, because I know
• 1:04:52
  that my viewing of Doctor Who Comes In the shadow of the
• 1:04:55
  captain of the Hiatus in the 1980s, where something doctor
• 1:04:58
  was taken away. And my life was awful, is that
• 1:05:02
  I've always had an eye on, oh God, what will the general
• 1:05:03
  public think? Oh God, what is this?
• 1:05:05
  Is the end of Doctor Who? And I almost, it's almost like
• 1:05:09
  I've got an eye on things that might be perceived by others, as
• 1:05:12
  a fault or an eye on things. That that might be a
• 1:05:16
  vulnerability. That means my thing is taken
• 1:05:18
  away from me, and then the thing is not allowed to be the thing
• 1:05:21
  that it is. So I will always go.
• 1:05:25
  Well, I need to that, sometimes give a show a period of time to
• 1:05:29
  percolate. I mean, I love the Russell T
• 1:05:30
  Davies here at but I did have my issues with with some of it and
• 1:05:34
  I've ever be quite Furious about a couple of things.
• 1:05:37
  That then, I went back to a few years later ago, I was a furious
• 1:05:40
  about that. And then during the pandemic,
• 1:05:42
  when we were watching the Russell, T Davies here, And we
• 1:05:45
  had a friend staying with us, who was shielding, and we could
• 1:05:49
  help her because she disable them suffer.
• 1:05:51
  And so, so we were all sort of a unit together who never seen
• 1:05:53
  Doctor, Who before and with her watching it and go and seeing
• 1:05:59
  this non who person watching this stuff and being bowled over
• 1:06:04
  by it. And suddenly go, oh my God, and
• 1:06:06
  I don't have a separate, always loved the Russell, T Davies
• 1:06:08
  here, but to watch it with that fresh perspective with a bit of
• 1:06:10
  time and bothered to watch any recently because life has moved
• 1:06:14
  out of light. And suddenly to go by God, we
• 1:06:16
  don't know how lucky we won't. That's amazing.
• 1:06:19
  And the constant Joy of every few years rediscovering, an
• 1:06:23
  element of the show. It's why I will always be a fan
• 1:06:25
  of this program and friend of mine calls it, cancellation,
• 1:06:28
  anxiety, obey, not the moment. There is a lot of cancellation
• 1:06:33
  anxiety in or there was until you know, we knew what was
• 1:06:36
  coming. After this era.
• 1:06:38
  You think for all the flaws in his era, some of it will be
• 1:06:42
  re-evaluated later on. I think I 6 Euro, I think you're
• 1:06:45
  right, and I also think Cat station.
• 1:06:50
  Anxiety is brilliant. Who coined that made him.
• 1:06:53
  Both only from flight for entirety Mason.
• 1:06:55
  It's a smart. Listen, I'm I'm in or of that.
• 1:07:01
  Yeah. That's that's very, very nice,
• 1:07:04
  cancellation anxiety. I'm afraid I am still beset by
• 1:07:09
  and that's something that was lodged in My DNA since nineteen
• 1:07:15
  what 1985 1986. So that's been a god, it's been
• 1:07:18
  there for All of my all of my adult life which is gonna shake
• 1:07:23
  it it by now. God, I think we're in safe hands
• 1:07:27
  for the immediate future. Anyway, I'm very excited in me.
• 1:07:31
  I'm very exciting the idea that he would come back.
• 1:07:38
  It's Unimaginable baffling, exciting.
• 1:07:42
  You know, it's not me. Can't do the same thing again.
• 1:07:44
  He's done that. So what's it going to do?
• 1:07:46
  So it's some sort of comforted by the fact that we know, he can
• 1:07:50
  do it. But then, you know, that that's
• 1:07:51
  not going to be. Why would he come back to do
• 1:07:53
  that again? And it's hugely risky.
• 1:07:55
  He went out on such a high, massive, viewing figures.
• 1:07:59
  If resurrected a show, that was a bit of a national joke, he not
• 1:08:03
  only made it successfully made it more successful than anybody
• 1:08:06
  could have imagined. You'd also made it acceptable to
• 1:08:08
  fans and Australian more sort of continuity in like subtle Grace
• 1:08:12
  notes than we could have ever hoped for whilst making of Mass
• 1:08:15
  Appeal, went to cast the second. You know, after the disaster of
• 1:08:20
  the first doctor leaving, under whatever circumstances over,
• 1:08:23
  then managed to get somebody who was more successful than that.
• 1:08:26
  And and, and became the sort of definitive doctor for a
• 1:08:30
  generation or two. And, and he left on such a high
• 1:08:33
  Christmas Day. New Year's Day, Bob Edwards on
• 1:08:36
  everybody's lips. Bah, bah, bah, blah.
• 1:08:38
  When you can, when you've got you You can't do better than
• 1:08:40
  that. So why would you ever come back?
• 1:08:44
  So my, I don't think we'll ever know the answers that question.
• 1:08:48
  I mean, if you don't help me, I know a couple of years back, the
• 1:08:51
  odds are Rusty. Davis, coming back to show, run
• 1:08:53
  the show and then Factor, then David Tennant and then fax it in
• 1:08:58
  Catherine's a well any odds for that.
• 1:09:04
  That's what we just watched. Yeah, you know.
• 1:09:13
  And I wonder if perversity we can.
• 1:09:15
  We blame covid of not blame covid.
• 1:09:17
  We give covid the credit and actually a lovely person who I
• 1:09:22
  adore and I think the future is bright if she is in it in terms
• 1:09:25
  of dr. Emily cook.
• 1:09:26
  We did that wonderful thing of doing those Tweeter lungs and
• 1:09:29
  that's why we started as a household when we had our
• 1:09:33
  friend, I talked about before watching dr.
• 1:09:34
  Again, is because we did the rose tweet along and it was the
• 1:09:38
  first time this friend of ours a day.
• 1:09:39
  I've seen Doctor Who and if I think if Emily hadn't done that
• 1:09:44
  and Russell and David and Catherine, Tate and taking part
• 1:09:49
  in those tweet along some maybe that reignited the flames in a
• 1:09:53
  way. If that was, if that if I don't
• 1:09:55
  know this but if that was the Genesis of everybody going,
• 1:09:59
  should we do it? Should we do it again as a
• 1:10:02
  result of that one? You know, out of everything.
• 1:10:05
  Evil must, some could become something good, you know, for
• 1:10:08
  all the problems that come. It did to the was a beauty in
• 1:10:12
  the solidarity. That was exhibited particularly
• 1:10:15
  by creative Enterprises and podcasting and all of that sort
• 1:10:19
  of thing. And and read them.
• 1:10:19
  What I talked about in the last episode about the comedy club
• 1:10:22
  and and the sort of community feel that I hadn't anticipated
• 1:10:25
  would be a thing that we could do.
• 1:10:27
  When all locked up and many people alone, that could reach
• 1:10:31
  out through different mediums to connect us.
• 1:10:34
  All you're the one that moved me.
• 1:10:35
  The most in there was I thought there was some fantastic
• 1:10:37
  creative gifts in that time. I'm like their last Sarah Jane
• 1:10:42
  episode. Yeah which still makes me cry
• 1:10:45
  every time. Let's be honest.
• 1:10:46
  But one that really moved me was when Emily cook arranged for all
• 1:10:51
  the fans to sing the long song from the rings of akhaten.
• 1:10:54
  Yeah. And it was just a perfect visual
• 1:10:57
  example of that Community all coming together and identify.
• 1:11:01
  Yeah. In something very beautiful.
• 1:11:03
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:11:07
  Yeah. And out of something.
• 1:11:09
  Terrible. The so so I wonder if I wonder
• 1:11:11
  if you know history will tell us.
• 1:11:13
  Well that was that was what reignite.
• 1:11:15
  That's what made them all think. Well, we could actually could
• 1:11:18
  actually do it again because I had no idea idea who was going
• 1:11:21
  to take over. And I talked to I talked to
• 1:11:24
  Johnny Morris about it. I think a couple of days before
• 1:11:27
  the announcement and we were going through names ago, they
• 1:11:31
  never do. Or I said, I think they've asked
• 1:11:32
  them and they said no, we had no idea but it never once crossed
• 1:11:38
  our minds to go. To do Russell, come back in and
• 1:11:41
  yeah. I think we've been sitting on it
• 1:11:43
  for years. Yeah.
• 1:11:44
  Room for a little while. Yeah.
• 1:11:47
  Talk about a poker face. Yeah, well, he's, he's he's as
• 1:11:51
  very smooth. Operator, he's not just good
• 1:11:53
  what's on the screen, he's very good.
• 1:11:55
  Even his red carpet interviews. I like a mini trailer, he's such
• 1:12:00
  a natural Storyteller. He makes all of that stuff.
• 1:12:04
  Just his little box pops, make you enthused They do and
• 1:12:10
  honestly the speech he gave recently look just like his
• 1:12:15
  doctor who he goes. He can make a political point or
• 1:12:18
  two as well. Plus he can Carly.
• 1:12:20
  I mean that takes guts part, but all that was very bright.
• 1:12:24
  But he also knows he's one of the few people that can probably
• 1:12:27
  get away with, you know, And that passion that righteous
• 1:12:32
  passion I love. I'm, you know, I'm there's no,
• 1:12:37
  you know, I am, I'm afraid, I am a, an acolyte at the Temple of
• 1:12:44
  Russell, T Davies. I think he's such a Force for
• 1:12:49
  good. Well, I'll tell you whatever.
• 1:12:51
  I might twist your arm there when they, when these episodes
• 1:12:54
  have aired, I might twist your arm to do a comedy show.
• 1:12:56
  One of these, you know, if I can, I'll try and charm you What
• 1:13:00
  if? Which the the forthcoming once?
• 1:13:02
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:13:02
  Oh yeah, right. Yeah, go on.
• 1:13:05
  This is this is that's an oral contract yet.
• 1:13:09
  God, I hope they better be good. Now, I can't imagine that they
• 1:13:12
  won't be no. Patrick Harris is going to be
• 1:13:14
  brilliant, nail. Patrick Harris beat beat the
• 1:13:16
  MEAP but what is he? The celestial toymaker?
• 1:13:22
  This is something I was its body Lankford back.
• 1:13:26
  Let's hope so. Oh Yeah, every great.
• 1:13:32
  But you know what, it would actually be lovely to sit
• 1:13:34
  because I was amongst the chorus of people angry at the casting,
• 1:13:38
  of Bonnie Langford, because of what she represented, and all
• 1:13:42
  that sort of thing. And, you know, and, and that's
• 1:13:46
  typical of this bloody country actually, is that somebody who's
• 1:13:49
  really talented multi, talented performer could survive it was
• 1:13:53
  treated with such mistrust because she had the audacity to
• 1:13:56
  be enthusiastic and key. And I do And obviously that
• 1:14:00
  place and time and doctors history, it is a bit of an odd
• 1:14:02
  call and, and stylistically, I guess I can understand the
• 1:14:05
  issue, but bottom line for this a national bloody treasure her
• 1:14:08
  performance in EastEnders. I think was absolutely
• 1:14:11
  fantastic. She was so good in that, and
• 1:14:13
  she's really nice and I, it would give my heart.
• 1:14:17
  Great joy. If, if there were, if they
• 1:14:21
  could, if they did a little bit of, actually, guys that you've
• 1:14:26
  misunderstood this, this, that, that, this, this, Asshole, this
• 1:14:32
  this whole act or this, the whole presence of Bonnie
• 1:14:35
  Langford in our, in our national culture, because she's a, she's
• 1:14:39
  a National Treasure, I have heard her in many, a big finish
• 1:14:42
  and I'll tell you what with the right material.
• 1:14:45
  Sure astonishing. And I'm sorry, they bring back
• 1:14:50
  Catherine, Tate and body language in the same story and
• 1:14:53
  don't make the joke about having to Ginger companion.
• 1:14:57
  I'll be very surprised. Yeah, no good.
• 1:15:00
  I understand she was quite unhappy when she was doing it.
• 1:15:03
  She felt a little bit so that out on a limb and I are you feel
• 1:15:06
  a bit? Sorry.
• 1:15:06
  For again, as it's the way that we sort of judge people because
• 1:15:09
  she's such a professional and seems like everything was going
• 1:15:12
  for such an easy target SoCal, bloody body language, you know.
• 1:15:15
  And actually she was this slightly.
• 1:15:17
  So the only person who was a little bit lost and not getting
• 1:15:19
  enough Direction, and feeling that she'd, maybe we made the
• 1:15:21
  wrong choice and that that makes me feel very sad that somebody
• 1:15:24
  doing something that, you know, is a dream in, from it, for
• 1:15:28
  many, an actor to be a A regular in a show especially one that's
• 1:15:31
  a National Institution but it wasn't all that.
• 1:15:33
  She hoped it could be but because of the Doctor Who will
• 1:15:36
  live forever, it gives us that opportunity to right those
• 1:15:40
  wrongs, which is actually quite Steven Moffat, e.
• 1:15:43
  It's in a way is that we get, we get the timelines and we iron
• 1:15:47
  The Kinks out of them. So, that all is right in the
• 1:15:50
  end. I think that's a lovely
• 1:15:52
  sentiment to learn this on Juno it.
• 1:15:57
  What just leaves me to thank you very much for your time.
• 1:15:59
  Once again, thank you for asking me to do it.
• 1:16:02
  Joe. It's always a pleasure to talk
• 1:16:03
  to you and I apologize to the listeners for me banging on,
• 1:16:08
  never do that. Honestly, the highest rated
• 1:16:10
  ones. I put out there, not a choice.
• 1:16:13
  But next time we are heading to when we more than just these me
• 1:16:18
  to say. And till next time, bless your
• 1:16:21
  mate.