Latest / Pod Therapy / #405: Therapist's Only Fans, Grieving a Pet, Hugging a Client

Transcript

#405: Therapist's Only Fans, Grieving a Pet, Hugging a Client · Pod Therapy

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You're using two hands though it's worthy. You're coming yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: I know you're You're feelding a lot of effort in
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: the back of that burrito, and just like in a
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: waving motion, you have to tickle tickle the back of
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: the burrito. Problem fives, Las Vegas, no mata. This is
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: pod therapy, real people, real problems, and real therapists. You
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: can submit your questions and mountainous say a pot therapy
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: dot net or email us at pot there because at
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Broadcasting from the s J and the
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Ruckus Hoy Pond Studio. That's Jim, That's Whinney. I'm Nick
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: signed for some pots. Your gold standard is Jack Jacob.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Your gold standard is Chipotle? Nick, what's your gold standard? Golfers?
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: But you've got to pick something in Las Vegas. You
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: can't say something outside of the city or the state. Honestly,
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: I don't hate on Burger King all day. I'll get
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: a whopper in an original chicken sandwich.
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: CHI can say which is used to be good. I
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: used to love Burger King's fries because they had like.
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: That. They would do their fries in before they would
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: you in the washing potatoes thing. Man a weird hill
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: to Dian. I'm gonna be honest, this is a different thing.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: It's very pigeon whole stance to take.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: No, this is an egg wash. Oh, they're just dumping
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: it in some egg before they fry. That's all I'm
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: saying there.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: It's a nice taste. You know a lot about the
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: way they prepare for You're gonna hate me, but I'm
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: gonna say, sub.
• 1:23
  Speaker 3: Boy, I will go to subway road trips. That is
• 1:27
  Speaker 3: my like road.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: That's a solid road tripping. I mean, you have always
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: been very fond of children. Yeah, I've always considered you
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: the Jared of this podcast. You're doing great, I think,
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Carl Jr. I'll stick with that. It's a solid fine
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: with that. Patreon dot com slash therapy if you want
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: to hear whatever the fuck led to this conversation. Speaking
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: of Patreon dot com, some fun stuff happened. Yeah, I
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: have some notes on this too. I'm interested in what
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: you're gonna say. I have no idea what you're going
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: to happen. I was going to point out that tell
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: O tex scoop Port, who Whitney told a story about
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: last week that she won five or this this person
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: one five dollars off. Whitney became a therapod to give
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: the money back to Whitney is now patroning the show
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: to get the five dollars back in. Yeah, it was
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: in a weird way. Whitney is finally contributing to the show. Finally,
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: what were you going to say? I was going to ask,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: And maybe Jacob knows this too is probably percussion meeting stuff.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: But is there a way in Patreon where you can
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: do like a one time purchase option. Yes, that's how
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: we did the horse thing where you name the horse.
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: I can create an option where there's a thing you
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: can name the studio. Oh, you want to do a
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: name the studio store, yep, I can do that absolutely,
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: So we're putting it in so patroon dot com slash therapy.
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: There is now an option in the store as of
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: this recording, when you're hearing it, where you can purchase
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: naming rights to the studio. Every sale gets you the
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: next available show episode. We're gonna limit this because if
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I just allow infinite, it's gonna get weird fast. Also,
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: it has to be we can say on radio that's
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: pretty much anything. Yeah, it's pretty wide we've said some
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: ship on this show.
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: I guarantee on this Oh, here we go, I will
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: guarantee that I will either say your studio name or
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: it can be a reasonable substitution that I guarantee you
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: will be still.
• 3:23
  Speaker 1: Still, It'll be decent what you wrote. You'll be able
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to figure out what was a regal. I'll give you
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: the spirit, if not the letter. It's gonna be real close.
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: Patroon dot com slash therapy. I can I can back
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: that up. Yeah, I can make that happen. And speaking
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: of which, before we jump into the real show, I
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: got a lovely message the other day on our episode
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: that was in the main show. It's titled I don't
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: remember Something Something Charlie Kirk. You know, because we talked
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: about what is like as podcasters and content creators to
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: reflect and I really hope that was the actual name.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Something something something Charlie YadA YadA, Yeah, and the community
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: really appreciate it. But I got a really sweet message.
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: I wanted to read it. Oh, this meant the world
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: to me. It said, Hi, Jim, the latest episode about
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk hit a lot of big things and I
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: really appreciate, Uh, the space that pod therapy has carved
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: out for all of us. Thank you, thank you. I'm
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: really thankful for the podcast, and I've learned a ton.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Eight years is a long time, and the show still
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: feels fresh and fun. It's a perfect balance of silly, respectful,
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: boundary pushing compared to other mental health media, I engage
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: with and loving.
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: We're good at that.
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: I think we're good at that. It's clear that there
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: is warmth and love for the whole person who asks
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: a question. I'm still pretty new to the discord, but
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: it's full of very lovely, smart and kind people. You
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: folks created something that has drawn them all together. Keep
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: on trucking and doing what you folks do. It's very
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: very good. So and Jim that you want to say
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: back to that person has been there, know in case
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: you were wondering, Okay, Jim, joke like a very very
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: poor taste, Jim. Yeah. Well you know what, because I'm
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: a bad boy, I'm get some fucking nick drops. Christ
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: you eight years? You what you want? I get it.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of nick ship in there in my mouth.
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: God damn, I no, I get it. I get it.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: You know wants what it wants in my mouth said,
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: it's fine, Jim, you can you can have in my mouth.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: You can have any time you want. She's a hot supple.
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: Nineteen years Oh fuck me. I still need to figure
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: out where the funk that came from. I have no
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: memory left into the mic Whenny we've practiced this, she's
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: just crying. One day, I'm may not be here for recordings.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: She doesn't. Matt, that's always here, and I'm always they
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: have enough content at this point. Yeah, yeah you did quit.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: We could still, you can still. I we just have
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: eight we have eight years of data. Yeah, it'll find
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: the hidden gem of the pod Therapy discord. The hidden
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: gem of the pod Therapy discord is the out of
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: context channel where they just quoted it's just so fucking good.
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: That's the place to find really weird ship that we
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: have said without any kind.
• 6:24
  Speaker 3: That's weird at the time.
• 6:25
  Speaker 4: Right at the time, I feel like it made sense,
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: especially the nineteen year old.
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like it did. I don't know, I'm
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: sure it did.
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: My memory of that is none of us were saying
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: anything about anyone's ages.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: You jumped in with like a hot it was a
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: hot supple. Whiskey of some kind. I'm sure that's a wine.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: It was a nineteen year old wine kind of wine.
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: Full drive, stop it, Whitney, I know you're baiting me.
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: What you're doing right now, I know what you're up to.
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna fall al this whiskey there is. This
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: is a beautiful areola. I love this whiskey when it's
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: looking in my eyes. Oh have you seen the taint
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: on this whiskey? Gorgeous? Oh, I can't believe it's a
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: therapy show. Eight years long, we've still been going. We
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: got some great questions for today's show, and the first
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: question does not disappoint. It is titled I found and
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: subscribed to my therapists only fans shit because I'm a
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: bad boy there it is. So it's my only fans exactly.
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: I knew it so full disclaimer. Sometimes people write into
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: the show and instead of actually writing their own question,
• 7:37
  Speaker 1: they'll say, look, I've seen this question online. It's on
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: Reddit or elsewhere. I need you guys to speak to this,
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: and so they'll send it in. So I think this
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: one does come from Reddit. But therapist hasn't only fans
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: any advice background. This is my third therapist and she
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: is the first one I've liked. The therapeutic connection is
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: I'll pet you too. Therapia connection is phenomenal and I
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: can clearly see progress when I couldn't see it with
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: the others. I've been with her for two years as
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: I work on being open and authentic with my autism
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: my problem. I found out last week that she also
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: does only fans and yes, I engaged with the material.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: It's gonna say concient in the one session that we
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: have had since I found out, I didn't perceive the
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: therapeutic relationship differently. I have no personal or moral objections
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: toward it. However, I found that I was genuinely distracted
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: by the fact that she didn't know that I knew,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: as opposed to being distracted bi sexual feelings toward her.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: My main goal, I don't want to be referred to
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: someone else. I like this therapist. I don't want to
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: start from scratch again, and my insurance makes finding another
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: provider to be a difficult process. Questions can you build
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: insurance for the only fans fee? I mean, honestly, very therapist,
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and I feel like that should count. Questions should I
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: mention to her that I know just so that I
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: can be able to focus in therapy. My goal is
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: to make a therapeutic disclosure, not to try to pry
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: into her personal life. If I don't say anything, I'm
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: sure that this will be less distracting over time. Should
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: I mention that I engage with her material. My goal
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: is to be honest and not to harass her. I
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: don't have any issues with her as my therapist, and
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: I can separate her as a therapist and as a
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: content creator. She might have issues with me as a client.
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Her OnlyFans isn't explicitly banned by the State Board. However,
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: it might constitute a quote dual relationship disclaimer. Yes, I
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: understand that engaging with her material was likely appropriate inappropriate.
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: It only happened once, and I have made a conscious
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: decision to avoid her stuff since then. Thanks Anonymous. Wow,
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: I like it clarifying question. And I know you guys
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: are gonna give me shit for this and not believe me.
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: But I really don't know much about only what you're
• 9:59
  Speaker 1: using name. Yeah. Yeah, but but it's not only like
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: sexual explicit cont It doesn't have to be. There's actually
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: podcasters that just pay wall, so it's it's it's Patreon.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: It's essentially just Patreon. It's just a Patreon that is
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: way more associated with sex content than anything else. There
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: have been a few, a few tries over the years.
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: I think they even talked to us over at ice
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Cream Social requiring us to to start using only fans
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: as a platform several years ago, because they tried to
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: make a push to do like stand up comedy on
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: their diversify yeah, and I don't think it. I think
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: it worked as well as twitches push, yeah, to diversify
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: out from just video game content, which is like it
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: opened up a little bit and there were a few
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: things here and there.
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: You have anche games, they're mainly video games.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: Fans are mainly uh, you know, amateur pornography or I
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: guess not even amateur, semi pro exactly or sometimes very
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: pro triple aprography, triple A gold standard. But yeah, I
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: do you guys know anyone that has only fans of.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: People, non clients? Oh Whitney, do you still did you
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: close that one? I haven't got any and I still subscribe,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: which I'm kind of fucking pissed about, Like Jesus card
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: every month. It's weird. There's no fucking up.
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: Let me.
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: I'm just you know, in good faith, I'm just waiting. No,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: Any like civilians. I have several friends that have only fans. Okay,
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: I know I know quite a few people that have them.
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: Would you engage with their mater?
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Does it feel too intimate? Does it feel like different
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: than a burlesque friend? It's like attending their show? Exactly?
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I have never Uh, I'm actually with Nick on this one.
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: I've never I've never done the whole only fans thing.
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: Weird high ground.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Why, I'll tell you exactly why, Because I have, uh, like,
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: our friend has sent me their only fans page and
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: then like what do you what do you think of this?
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: Because they were trying to do like content creation everything,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: and it's pictures of me on there and I'm naked
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: and whatever. You've seen me naked before, here's here's this stuff.
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: And when I tried to look at her page, like
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: with her passwords stuff, I wasn't able to figure out
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: how to log into it, and have never gone back.
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: And I kind of ran into a roadblock one time
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: and then never went back and checked again. As it
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: turns out, if you want to see naked people online
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: and here out.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, there are options, kind of options, a lot of options,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: expensive options every more than stop it. They're not just
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: giving that away, come on, But yeah, it would I
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: think it would be odd.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I suppose a bit odd. I think I would feel
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: odd if I were looking at my friends only fans pages.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: It feels if they're if they're on stage, like and
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: I realized, we're Vegas is weird compared to a lot
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: of other cities. In Vegas, we have a lot of
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: friends that just dance bur lesque, and like, yep, they
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: are up there, they are stripping down. They are funny
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: and sexy, and that's part of the shtick. And like
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: you're you're expected as a friend to like hoot and
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: holler and make noise and it's fun. And you're sitting
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: right next to their spouse the whole time. Like it's
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: great fun. Everybody's cool with it because it's not intimate.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: It's not meant for you. It's meant for everybody, and
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: this is their performance art, whereas only fans. In one sense,
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: it's like meant for everybody. It's a broadcast that's like
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: you know, broad but at the same time, like I
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: don't know. It feels more dialed in, it feels more intimate,
• 13:47
  Speaker 1: like it's supposed to be a little anonymous, right, it's
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: it's not something taking out of it, right, feels like
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: you're doing it wrong a little bit. Yeah to me. Yeah,
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: there's no set rule on this.
• 14:00
  Speaker 5: Jim as a therapist with an only fan. So someone
• 14:02
  Speaker 5: came in and admitted, Hey, I've been engaging with your
• 14:08
  Speaker 5: not your question.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: I thought you were gonna ask Jim. Yeah, I thought
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: you were gonna ask Jim. So Jim as a therapist
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: with patients who have only fans. Yeah, also relevant.
• 14:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I went the truth route, the legit route.
• 14:21
  Speaker 5: No, Like, I don't know, would you want a client
• 14:24
  Speaker 5: to tell you that, like, hey, I saw you, I
• 14:26
  Speaker 5: saw your dick pics.
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: So the closest thing I have to that is pot therapy, right,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: And and like over the years, that has been one
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: of the greatest like causes of my anxiety in life
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: is all patients that tell me, like BT dubs on
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: this show, you are emotionally naked. Yes, yeah, that that's
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: a great point. And also hung, I feel like emotionally hung,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: you know, like, and the stamina is really strong because
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: I'm a bad boy there. It is emotionally longer than
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: eight nine inches. I mean just like emotionally you know,
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: like whatever that is metaphorically hung like a moose. No,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: but like that's that is one of the scariest things ever, right,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: And Like one of the things that I've had to
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: do in life is when a patient has told me like, hey,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I listen to the show, or they find me through
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: the show, like they start off as a patron, but
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: then they happen to live in Nevada and they're like, hey,
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: you are a practitioner here, I'm looking for help. Right now,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: I clearly already know who you are. I enjoy your
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: professional work. Let's why I listen to your show. I
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: choose you as my therapist, then I should have that autonomy, right,
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, no, absolutely, that's fine. But immediately as
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: soon as I'm aware, yeah, I very quickly like lay
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: down a lot of rules where I'm like, first off,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: you are allowed and encouraged to stop subscribing to the show.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: You are disallowed from increasing your giving, Like I can't
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: allow that. Like I would be very uncomfortable with that
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: because then I would feel somehow that I'm exploiting you,
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So please do not. But if you choose to back out,
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: I hope you do, and I would encourage you while
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: we're working on like really important stuff that's about you
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: that you really just discontinue, you know, the show, Like
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: I think that'd be for the best because I don't
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: want anything I say on the show to accidentally be
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: misinterpreted as if I was thinking of you when I
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: said that answer. I wasn't. I am thinking of the
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: thousands and thousands of people who write another show, Like
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: I promise you, I'm not thinking of you. Yeah, and
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: so's it's way too complex. So I don't As a
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: content creator, I don't like that. And in my informed consents,
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: I have layers and layers of language. That's like Jim
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: has an Internet personality. I am on TV, sometimes I'm
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: on radio. Sometimes I have a lot of content I create.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: You're if you're really seeking me as a healthcare professional,
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: please understand it is strongly discouraged that you participate in
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: anything that I create is not meant for you. You
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: agree not to do that, right, and if you do,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: you assume all risk. So, like my answer is, and
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: I'm not even like showing my butthole, you know, not
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: not for free. There's a Patreon level. There are partners
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: get that. You know, they don't ask for it, but
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: it's in the package.
• 16:53
  Speaker 3: I don't ask for it.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so we send it to them. I would say,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: you'd name the studio for an episode and see Jim's butthole.
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: There's a number. Yeah, there's absolutely a number door. Yeah, yeah,
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: it's both. Yeah. Also, everybody that tried to name the
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: horse for five bucks also got a picture of my botole.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: So I'm trying to make sure it's sweeping the deal.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: Here, but it really is.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: But yeah, no, super super uncomfortable and like really protective
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: because I worry about the patient, right and I feel
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: like if I was the therapist in the situation, it's
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: but also I feel less, like, Okay, I worry all
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the time about pod therapy, but I can justify it
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: in my mind because you're meeting therapist Jim in pod therapy.
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: You're not meeting Jim who is interesting for any other reason.
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: You're meeting a like the most care free version of
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: therapist Jim. But I'm answering three real questions from a
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: therapist's brain every single show and then you're also getting
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: to listen to me hanging out with my friends. That's
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: the majority of it. Only fans is a very different
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: version of the therapist. There's nothing about that that is
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: the professional version of you. Yeah, and to me, that
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: is a very different form of content to create. And
• 18:03
  Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe I'm caveman about that, but like
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: what therapist is just doing a full on Freudian study
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: they're always pretending to. She just asks you to describe
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: your mom and then she impersonates your mom at the end,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: she did right before she cuts off the camera.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: She's like, sometimes a cigar isn't just a cigar.
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: That called sextra? What are your thoughts on this? I mean, obviously,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: as a female therapist who's dealt with men, no shortage
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: of female therapists have have had the story where and
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: in all therapists I think have had the story where
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: there's transference and there's an issue with that. But female
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: therapists a lot, you know, because a lot of men
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: are not used to feeling cared for, and like, you
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: get this very nurturing feminine relationship that meets a lot
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: of your needs and you're confiding this person it's very
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: easy to already sexualize that, and a lot of female
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: therapists share with me that, like they have to intentionally
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: make sure that they leave no clues towards that they
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: steer away from that. How do you feel about a colleague,
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: a female therapist out there creating OnlyFans content? Do you
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: feel like she's naive to do that?
• 19:08
  Speaker 5: I know my first reaction, like, honestly, was I don't
• 19:14
  Speaker 5: know that that's a great idea. I feel like you're
• 19:16
  Speaker 5: really you're starting to blur some ethical lines there, and
• 19:20
  Speaker 5: hate I hate that I think that way because deep
• 19:22
  Speaker 5: down I'm like, well, no, she should be able to
• 19:26
  Speaker 5: do whatever she wants, like she's a human outside of therapy,
• 19:31
  Speaker 5: and so I like that, But I don't know if
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: there's a world where, like, what's the goal with only fans?
• 19:42
  Speaker 5: The goal with only fans, I imagine is Okay, maybe
• 19:46
  Speaker 5: I'm wrong here, Maybe she just loves the like feeling
• 19:48
  Speaker 5: she gets from like that experience. Okay, But I imagine
• 19:52
  Speaker 5: most people start only fans for like maybe monetary reasons
• 19:56
  Speaker 5: or like they're wanting to gain something from it. You
• 20:00
  Speaker 5: bring up a good point, Jim, like, if this person
• 20:02
  Speaker 5: is giving money to me for something else I'm doing,
• 20:07
  Speaker 5: and then they're coming into session and like feeling that
• 20:11
  Speaker 5: they want to now.
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: Get in my good.
• 20:14
  Speaker 5: Graces or like it becomes like a weird thing, a
• 20:18
  Speaker 5: different dynamic.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a lot wrong with that.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: You can't really have a great therapeutic relationship. Then what
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: the writer is saying, which I think is really interesting,
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: is I hear them saying I do feel like I
• 20:30
  Speaker 5: can separate that. Maybe it's the neurodivergence I think.
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe they say they're autistic.
• 20:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah, like I think there's a different way your brain
• 20:41
  Speaker 5: works there, So maybe that's something you can easily separate.
• 20:44
  Speaker 5: So for this writer, maybe that's fine. Do you tell
• 20:48
  Speaker 5: the therapist, Oh that's an interesting question. My instinct says no,
• 20:53
  Speaker 5: just don't tell them.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Just leave it out.
• 20:55
  Speaker 3: Just leave it out.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: If you're actually cutting off, yes, watching it exactlygally doesn't
• 21:00
  Speaker 1: matter to you.
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: If it doesn't, you're cutting it off, and you're right, writer,
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: it will probably dissipate that weird like kind of anxiety
• 21:07
  Speaker 5: or feeling like, oh, I know this secret and I'm
• 21:09
  Speaker 5: not telling my therapist because part of therapy is being
• 21:11
  Speaker 5: open and vulnerable with your therapist.
• 21:12
  Speaker 3: But you're keeping something from them, then.
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: Most of your life is not told to your therapist, agreed, Like,
• 21:19
  Speaker 2: even if you're being completely open and honest, you know,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: you're just not going to get around to telling your therapist.
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: About most things. And that's just like, so this is
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: just something on that list.
• 21:26
  Speaker 5: Something you got off to one time, and it happened
• 21:28
  Speaker 5: to be your therapist. If you're really able to to
• 21:31
  Speaker 5: not go back, not engage and say all right, that
• 21:34
  Speaker 5: was like not okay, maybe for the moment, I'm going
• 21:37
  Speaker 5: to put that aside and just continue this rapport with
• 21:40
  Speaker 5: my therapist, my clinician. I think that's important, especially if
• 21:43
  Speaker 5: it's difficult for you to find a new person. You
• 21:46
  Speaker 5: said that insurance makes it tough where you live, and
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: just the connection can be tough to find somebody really connect.
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: With as uh as that therapist.
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I think it's a good point because like if it
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: doesn't if you the patient are saying it doesn't matter,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Like I've had who I've worked with for a really
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: long time and then eventually they've told me, hey man,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: I've never told you this, but I've always known about
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: your podcast, like I've always listened to your podcast. In fact,
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: that's how I found you. I am always outside of
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: your home right, and I've listened to enough that I
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: even knew that you probably would be distracted if I
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: told you, and I've always been listening, and like, to me,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it's not a big deal. I choose you as my therapist,
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: and I can separate these different realities of you, and like, okay,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: like as a therapist, I'm good with that. I prefer
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: you keep that to yourself, right, That works better for me.
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: It's also that's a harder ask on your end, though,
• 22:41
  Speaker 2: if you're if you're having that conversation with with a
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: patient at the beginning of your relationship. It's the easy
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: way and probably the correct way is what you is,
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: what you already said. You know you if you want
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: to drop your support, your patriot support, I prefer I
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: would love it if you dropped that support while we're while.
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: We're engaged here.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: You know, if if you want to stop listening, I'd
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: be all for that as well. You know, all of
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: the stuff you already said. The harder one is, please
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: make sure to keep these things separate in your own.
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: Mind, which is why I.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: Don't want to be later on, and it says like, hey,
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: here's what I did, right, I kept them separate in
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: my in my mind, and it worked out well. Right,
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: you go like, okay, we won. Then we've forgot We
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: got the result we wanted, and that's good. But boy,
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: I'm glad I didn't know about this earlier. Well, and
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of therapists that have side hustles. The
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: only fans one is a logical extreme, right, we're taking
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: that pretty far, but like so this ones are the
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: same thing with like elementary school teachers having only fans. Yeah,
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: that's something that pops up every so often.
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: It comes up, and there there's an interesting reality, like
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: you'll have therapists that are a therapists there there, you'll
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: have therapists that are also real estate agents. You'll have
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: therapists that are also personal trainers. You'll you'll have therapists
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: that have other roles in the world. And I think
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: the Ethical Guides just strongly discouraged this, as the letter
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: referenced against dual relationships. Pick a lane, stay in that lane.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: But the problem is in the internet age, like as
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: a real estate agent, you could call me and be like, oh, Jim,
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: by the way, I'm about to sell my house. I'd
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: like to work with you. I want that money to
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: go through your family, and I would decline, right, I'd
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: be like, oh, you know what, I yes, I also
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: do real estate or my spouse's real estate. We absolutely
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: ethically cannot accept your business. I'll recommend you to a friend.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Whereas when you create internet content, you don't get.
• 24:23
  Speaker 3: To there's no control on that.
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't get to gatekeep and be like I
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: get to choose who access is this? They all can Yeah,
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: And that's really a fascinating reality. I mean, I've you know,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I can say this, I think at this point because
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I've been to so many I have been to a
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: scoop fest where a patient of mine is present, right,
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: and like they've you know, you could chicken or egg.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Did they find me through that or did I find
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: Did they find me? And then eventually come to that
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: because they found the pod and get involved. But that's
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: a very interesting dilemma for me because now I'm silly
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: Internet Jim who's up here doing trivia, and it has
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: a very different assignment in this role, like I am
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: one of the hosts of this event. My my friends
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: run this event. I am part of the talent people
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: that are supposed to be here to entertain, and I'm
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: and I try to right, I'm up here dancing with
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: the glowstick, you know, at the fucking uh you know,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: band performance to get the blood pumping right, Like that's
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: part of the job. Like I want this to be
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: fun for everybody. And yet at the same time, I'm
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: aware that there's a patient somewhere in this building that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: sees me, and then I might talk to them next
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: week about their suicidal ideation or whatever. It is a
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: fascinating challenge to be in. I cannot imagine how much
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: harder that would be if, like they were watching videos
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: of me jerking off, you know, like that that is
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: which you can patroon dot com slash therapy. There's there's
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: a number for that. So Nick, you're oddly silent about this,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: and I just think.
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: It's like I'm uncomfortable waiting to figure.
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: Out which way the wind's blowing on this is, like
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: so are we For well, as you've been talking, I've
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: been doing a little research and checking the people in
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: this room to see how many out of three of
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you have only fans. And it's not zero, it's not zero.
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: It's it's not zero. We'll leave it there, but it's
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: not zero. No, I agree with Whitney. I think a no,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: you do not tell your therapist this, and if it's
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: not a problem, then it's not a problem. Your therapist
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: does not need to know this, and you should definitely
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: stay away from it. Uh, definitely don't go back. But
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: here's the follow up question though, is when does it
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: become problematic?
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: Yes, so that's was my only follow up.
• 26:22
  Speaker 5: Like, if you find over time it's not dissipating, like
• 26:26
  Speaker 5: some kind of weird feeling you're having your thinking about
• 26:28
  Speaker 5: it in session every time, that's a little bit of
• 26:30
  Speaker 5: a different compare.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: To say that when you start seeing your therapist as
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: a sexual object that maybe then that's probably time.
• 26:39
  Speaker 5: I think the client's are already probably doing that, So what
• 26:42
  Speaker 5: does it matter if.
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: They actually like.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: What's going on, but not like all of the guys
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: at Chick on our podcast, like I don't know whatever.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: So at what point does therapy become ineffective for the writer?
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah?
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: You know, like if it really starts impacting your ability
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: to when you walk into that room to just focus
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: on yourself and not be focused on your therapist, that's
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: a good distraction question.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I think the question to should you tell
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: your therapist can be answered with if there is another
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: reason other than to just get that information out there?
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I don't see it.
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: So then we can have that conversation about whether you
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: need whether you should tell With the reasoning that you've provided,
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like the instances is that.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: You should tell them.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: So if it's just like I feel a little squeamish
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: that I've seen this and want to tell you about it,
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: that's that's probably not the perfect reason to do so.
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: But if it is getting in the way of your case,
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: if it's getting in the way, that's a different thing. Yeah,
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: if you feel you need to talk about it because
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: it's become an obstacle to care, then unfortunately, and I
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: know you didn't intend for this, writer, but like you've
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: created a situation that we do need to question whether
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: this is the right relationship for you. And there's a
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: lot of like podcasting is one. Like recently I recorded
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: a YouTube video in response to Charlie Kirk that was
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: like just a breakdown of an FBI report that was
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: like a letter to therapist, Hey, therapist, here's what the
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: FBI taught us about how to catch political assassins and
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: redirect them to help. Great. It was very dishwater, very bland,
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: that accidentally blew up, and so it went out to
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: a therapist friend of mine who I guess runs in
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: right hand circles, and Nick, you know this guy, he's
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: very very alt right, and so he text me and
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: he goes, hey, man, I tweeted this and tagged like
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk people like people in the that that organization.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: They fucking grabbed it and they ran with it. So
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: heads up, you're about to get a shitload of views
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: on this video. And that obviously was not your intention,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: like you wrote it for therapists, but like it just
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: got sucked into the alt right, like you know, vortex,
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: and so then all of.
• 28:51
  Speaker 2: A sudden it got sucked in. It's not I put
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: it in. It got sucked in.
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: Writing it.
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: He didn't into like tag Charlie Kirk.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: I was just going for a walk laptop, and so
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: like he got sucked into that vortex, and I got
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: tons of comments and like all of a sudden, the
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: right was very much celebrating me, and they were like,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: this is what we're talking about this is a good therapist.
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: It's a good guy. You know, he gets it. And
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I'm thinking, like, oh boy, I hope you guys never
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: listen to the podcast, like that would be terrible. But like,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: I can't see when you're a content creator and there's
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: a lot of therapists out there that are very political,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: and they're they're like out there fighting some kind of
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: you know, important battle about ideas. I can see where
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: a patient goes and finds that and then realizes, hey,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: that was super distasteful. I disliked that I discovered where
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: you stand on this issue. This now interferes my ability
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: to listen to as my therapist and to work together.
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: And I think if that happens, that's unfortunate. There's a
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: part of me that wants you to talk about it
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: with your therapist, But there's a part of me that says, no,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you've you've gone into their life. You've found another part
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: of your therapist that they can they don't have to
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: excuse or they don't have to apologize for. You've realized
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: that's now incongruent with where you stand. That is your distraction.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: It's time for you to do the hard work of
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: going and finding another therapist and next time be happy
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: with the therapeutically, think it has to jump to that,
• 30:10
  Speaker 1: though dude did not find this, only fans by accident.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: They were out there. I agree with that. I agree
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: I'm saying I don't think it has to jump to
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: you must then find another therapy.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: If it's enough of a distraction that you feel like
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: you need to bring it up in therapy because it's therapeutic.
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: At that point, I kind of look at it and go,
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: you know, what do.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: You think bring Do you think find another therapist before
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: talking to the therapist about it.
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: I think try really hard to just focus on therapy. Sure,
• 30:34
  Speaker 1: and if that can't happen because you are so distracted
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: that you've seen my butthole, you went and found that,
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: and I'm sorry that you did. There's a lot of
• 30:42
  Speaker 1: good questions about whether I should be posting a butthole.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: That's fine, but you did go out and find that.
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: That's a distraction to you. I don't know that we
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: need to bring it in here. I think its time
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: for you to go find somebody else.
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: But I think you do bring it up. If you're
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: going to choose to leave those then you do tell
• 30:54
  Speaker 3: the therapist You're like.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Well, actually, it's a good point, yeah, because I would
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: like to know, like if all of my patie that
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: I think are getting better and they discontinue therapy and
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: I don't hear from them because I think they're doing better,
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: if they all to a person kept finding pod therapy
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: and they're like, that was so disheartening. That's not who
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: I thought you were. I'm so discouraged I couldn't see
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: you anymore. Yeah, as a therapist, I definitely want to
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: know that, because I didn't sign up for this career
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: to do harm.
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: By the way, if you ever want to just get
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: Jim out of his career, if you get all of
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: his patients together and just have him leave his service
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: and say it's because of pod therapy, he will stop
• 31:27
  Speaker 2: everything tomorrow.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, they don't want that.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: Just pot therapy suspiciously will occur if those actions were
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: taken suspiciously. I have and this is what's weird. Over
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: eight years, I have never had a patient tell me
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: I did I just I did not like pod therapy.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: There was something you said in there that was hurtful,
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: and that's become a barrier. Would quote the show in
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: ways that I wish they would not, but they were
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: laughing about it. Like I had one that was like,
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: my my therapist the other day was telling me that
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: he tried to deep throat a bag yet and like
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, no, I did say that. That was
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: Oh my god, are you okay? And they're like no,
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: I think it's fucking hilarious and we're great, Like that's
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: I I know what I signed up for. Jim, like,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: I'm good with this. There's plenty of therapists that have
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: no sense of humor. I could go find them if
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I wanted. I like, what this is? Right? But I've
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: over eight years really never had anybody say that they
• 32:21
  Speaker 1: left because of that. But that still terrifies me because
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: I think that somebody did.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: But the overall arching idea is your therapy is supposed
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: to be about you.
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: It's about me. Yeah, but knowing who I am obviously
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: plays a role in that. Like there's people like we
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: write our bios on our websites because it's like, hey,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: your background does matter to me, Like knowing you'd relate
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: to my humanity is important to me. Something that differentious robots.
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: So Nick, you're on team yes, OnlyFans. No, I think,
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: he said, I'm still thinking about culvers. But I feel
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: like we ruined you by explaining what only fans is.
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: I feel like we may have just jeopardized your relationship.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Is in his computer now for like five solid minutes
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: saying a word and like like butters, discovering that oh.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: My god, my po By next week, one of Nick's
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: arms is gonna be super muscular.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: I'm broke. The down payment on this house fell through, guys, No,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: I think, I think definitely do not tell your therapist.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: H If it becomes problematic and it keeps you from progress,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: go ahead and tell your therapist and then be prepared
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: to find a new therapist, because that's why it's gonna happen.
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: And if you're a therapist, I do not encourage you
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: to create that kind of content. Like, the only way
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I can justify high Internet presence is that this is
• 33:39
  Speaker 1: adjacent to the entire profession that I do, and I
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: consider it within the long history of you know, very
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: prominent psychologists who were doing public demonstrations of therapy, which
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: all the great you know writers and theorists did and
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: even recorded it and demonstrated their skills and like, I
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: consider it adjacent to my work, and I take some
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: creative licenses comedic risk, but I still consider it within
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: the ballpark of what I do. But if I was
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: out there just showing up my buttthole and there was
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: no therapeutic value to that, but okay, therapeutic butthole showing,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: I feel like there's value to that. So as long
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: as I could justify it, well, that's called starfish treatment.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, and when we come back,
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: we're talking about grieving a pet. You're listening to pod therapy.
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: Today's episode is brought to you by Judie Schneider, Beon
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: Caroylyn Albert, Sammy Scoop, Sarah Smith, My Count, Darren Cunningham,
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Cody the Delran, Guy Bilch, Max the Ginger, Scoop and
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: eli Odare. If you like, sponsor the show, become a
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: therapy Patreon dot com slash therapy. All right, I'll be honest.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: I didn't have a whole lot of time for trivia.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: So what is the U r L for my favorite
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: nants content?
• 34:47
  Speaker 5: Creator's just list your favorite content.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna name a country. Uh, then we'll go and
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: order first one that names a country that does not
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: border this country. God damn, it is out of the game.
• 35:03
  Speaker 1: Jim gets two guesses, thank you, all right, thanks, and
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: hints right sure. Thanks.
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: The great part about this thing is that Nick is
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: actually pretty good at geography, so he loves asking geography
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: questions because Nick or Jim is terrible at geography.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: Whitney and I, I think you are the national average
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: of people who just know.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Where are Yeah, I know a general area where.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: Most of the weird gap between you and I on
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: skill of geography it is. It is broad other thing.
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: Howlet you were closer on golf knowledge than we are.
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: We are are fewer golf rules than there are countries.
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, there's ways I can get this right.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: All right, Whitney, We're gonna start with you. Austria, just
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: the name anything that borders it, yes, ship Now we're
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: like in World War two because that changed. Now? Oh fuck,
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: good question, that's relevant. Thank you. I'll give you a
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: point for that. All right, here we go. Let's go.
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: Borders Austria.
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: Ah, so people that speak Australian.
• 36:17
  Speaker 3: No, that's right.
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: Switzerland yes, wow, Oh I have to go to Jacob.
• 36:27
  Speaker 1: We did Germany's aid Germany. Oh ship? Was that right? Also?
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: Oh ship, here's your here's your Your hint is this
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is not Australia. That's important? Actually, thank you. Okay, it's
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: on the board. Germany's off the board. Uh, Australia. Germany.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: There was like a big war, so France can be France.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: It's probably on the other side. Strike one. You get
• 36:55
  Speaker 1: a point for that one. I get to that's right,
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: I get to. Okay, Yeah, so no France World War two? Jim,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: come on, So Germany goes through Austria to Britain.
• 37:06
  Speaker 5: No, Jim, what were the other boarding? Because I had
• 37:10
  Speaker 5: another guess?
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: But I know we're still going, so there's more. Should
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: I think I only have one more guests? I hope
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: we needed to take it off the board. No, say
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: what you say? That was my guess. That's a solid guest.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: Here we go. Let's see Austria. I know one.
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: Give Jim this please is hungry?
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: That I was going to say was taken. That's a validation. Good,
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: good for you, bud. Do I get to keep going
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: or we out of countries? Now we're there's more. There's more,
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: but he won because you you both lost.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, you had already lost.
• 38:01
  Speaker 3: Should we keep going?
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: Aren't really excited about that hungry thing? Though? Good job?
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: Is that the only one for the rounder? Yeah? Okay, yeah,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: let's just move on, Let's leave it. I recognized the
• 38:16
  Speaker 1: quality of this bit. Hello, pod Therapy, I wanted to
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: get your input about what you recommend for clients who
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: are grieving for lost pets. Today, my wife and I
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: said goodbye to our precious baby cat, Minky, after a
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: battle with a difficult illness that had about a coin
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: flip chance of going into remission. It was a hard
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: decision to stop trying to treat his illness, but we
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: know we did the right thing after we gave the
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: available treatment options a fair shot. He was only seven,
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: so we were unprepared for losing him at such a
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: young age. We don't have children, so our pets get
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of our emotional energy. It's been a really
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: hard week of letting Minky go at the end of
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: a pretty hard couple of months trying to care for
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: him and hope he could respond to treatment. We're both
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: very upset. I feel better this afternoon than I did
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: this morning or yesterday while we were waiting for his
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: last appointment, but I still well up with tears at
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: random things that make me think of him. This is
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: probably the worst emotional thing that I've ever gone through.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: I've not lost any close family before, and while my
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: family has lost pets before, that was when I was
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: younger and did not have a connection with the pets
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: like I had with Minky. Of our two cats, Minky
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: was my precious baby cat that was bonded especially to me.
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: We adopted Minky right after I finished college. Minky was
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: the first cat I picked out without any help choosing.
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: He and our other cat were both the first pets
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: that my wife and I were solely responsible for. When
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: we adopted our cats, I knew we would say goodbye
• 39:48
  Speaker 1: one day, but I always thought it would be when
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: they're like fifteen to twenty years old after a long life.
• 39:55
  Speaker 1: Minky wasn't even middle aged for a cat. I also
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: thought that I would feel sad, but not as deeply
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: sad as I do now. Because he was just a
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: little cat. I underestimated how much I would come to
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: love this cat and the big impact he would make
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: on me. I loved Minky so much and now he's gone.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: What would you recommend to a client who's grieving, particularly
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: a pet. I typed out some of my feelings yesterday
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: and today we printed a silly amount of photos and
• 40:24
  Speaker 1: made a scrap book for him. I wrote about how
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: we adopted him and what we loved about him in
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: the book so we would always remember his story. We
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: texted with some close friends and family members about what
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: was happening and looked at photos together. I don't know
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: what else I can do. Is it a time thing?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: I bet it's a time thing. If it's just the
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: time thing, how do we people? How do people cope
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: with waiting for it to get better? Also? Do you
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: have any ideas on anything? Do you have any Do
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: you have anything on uncoupling? Calendar dates? We had to
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: let Minky go today October second, and our wedding anniversary
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: is tomorrow. Am I always going to think, all right, wife,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: let's be romantic today the day after the anniversary of
• 41:09
  Speaker 1: Minky's passing. I expect tomorrow isn't going to be exactly
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: joyous and care free, but will every year be that way?
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't use that phrasing when you're trying to seduce
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: your wife on your edge, trying not to say that
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: in the card. Yeah, yeah, let's get romantic the day after.
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: I'll see what you're getting at. But I'd use a
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: different phrase. That's an internal thing. I've been sending photos
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: of my baby cat to people today to talk about him,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: so I attached some photos so that you can meet
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Minky too. I've never met a cat with as much
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: personality as Minky. I was lucky enough to save a
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: video of him meowing. He loved giving me a daily
• 41:44
  Speaker 1: report about what he saw out the window. He knew
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: how to meow in response to his name or us
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: talking to him. He was a beautiful, brave, strong, intelligent
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: little man who knew all the fastest ways to push
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: our buttons. He was a loving troublemaker. We love and
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: miss him so much. For listeners, Minky was a black
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: cat with a with black everything lips, nose, topads, whiskers,
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: et cetera. Even his claws were dark. His coat was
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: always shimmery and sleek. He had piercing, knowing green eyes
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: that could look yellow depending on the light. We adopted
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: him as a shelter mutt, but I suspect that one
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: of his parents was an American Bombay or something really close.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: He matched most of the average physical markers and personality
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: traits for a Pombey, as well as my amateur googling
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: could tell. Sincerely Matt from Arlington's Yeah, sorry for your loss.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: I had. I had to make that same decision a
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: few months ago with my mother. Yeah, yeah, put her down.
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Yeah she she broke a leg and wasn't able to
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: run anymore. Yeah, you could tell.
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: You can tell that the joy yeah left and so yeah,
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: I had to had old yellow hair.
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: Ironically, also also an American bombay yea yeah, yes, yes, yeah,
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: I don't know if it's ironic but coincidence. And also
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: completely black, which is interesting. We don't talk about it
• 43:11
  Speaker 1: all those things, those green eyes. Yeah, so I hope
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: that helps. Yeah, thanks a lot. Writer, No, I mean,
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: in all seriousness, writer, I mean we've we actually had
• 43:22
  Speaker 1: an episode of the show recently where somebody's writing in
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: about their spouse having cancer and their cat or their
• 43:27
  Speaker 1: dog actually having cancer and just how serious that is.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: And I think we we were very quick to validate
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: that human you know, and what they're going through and
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: and how serious these relationships are. And you know, like
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: obviously in the past couple of years, I had to
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: put down my long time pet, and yeah, we got it.
• 43:44
  Speaker 1: Just yeah, that's right. Yeah, thank you for correcting me
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: as I wrote it in my book Dad Vice, which
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: did reference having to versus getting two with that dog.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: But no, it is. It is just a devastating reality.
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: And you know I can tell from your letter obviously
• 43:58
  Speaker 1: you loved your cat deeply. I mean, you everything you
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: possibly could. And it's just so tough because, like I think,
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: and this is I think a broader question just putting
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: a pet down, but like the anniversaries of tragedies being
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: located against the anniversaries of other important things, and like
• 44:15
  Speaker 1: how long that endures? And I think the writer's sort
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: of saying, like I sort of anticipate time is going
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: to be a part of this. There's a half life
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: to pain. But I think that that's like a really
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: important pot yea as well. I think over time, those
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: you know, October second becomes a different date than October third, right,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: you know, I I those will become separate over time.
• 44:37
  Speaker 1: But the other thing, too is to not always in
• 44:40
  Speaker 1: your mind put them together, like stop reinforcing the connection, right, yeah,
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: as best you can. Sometimes that's difficult to do. But
• 44:48
  Speaker 1: like you know, I September eleventh for me is always
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: like when September tenth happened or comes around, it's like, oh,
• 44:57
  Speaker 1: tomorrow is the anniversary of you know, just because it
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: was such a huge thing. Yeah, this thing happened. It's yeah, yeah,
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: irrelevant with those comedians going to do that festival. Yeah, okay, yeah,
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: I hope you have a lot of money. But I
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: think it's like over time, I think those are just separate.
• 45:20
  Speaker 1: Your your anniversary is still going to be special to right.
• 45:24
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think that. I don't know.
• 45:28
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I guess this is something that I feel like
• 45:31
  Speaker 5: most people have a harder time doing. But in my life,
• 45:35
  Speaker 5: I don't necessarily feel super tied to celebrating or memorializing
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: things like on the date. Okay, so for example, like anniversary, like, well,
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: you already know how I feel like.
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: When Peter Yeah yeah, you already know how I feel
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: about Peter.
• 45:52
  Speaker 5: But but when we have to celebrate the anniversary.
• 45:55
  Speaker 1: When he reminds me.
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: That weeks in advance, sure, I remember.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: I just go to this nice restaurant and I'm like,
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: this is so nice your dress up, I got a gift,
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: The day is as strong a persona, as Whitney puts
• 46:10
  Speaker 2: on with this, the day that she has to put
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: Peter down is going.
• 46:13
  Speaker 4: To be is not doing well anymore.
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: I mean that the joy of that has left him.
• 46:21
  Speaker 1: I don't want to see her Google search results as
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: I just I know what's in there. Jesus. That's usually.
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: He's using the bathroom everywhere.
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: Jesus Christ everywhere. Oh my god. I mean, honestly, that's
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: a strong argument.
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
• 46:43
  Speaker 1: You were saying about memorializing dates.
• 46:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and in full transparency, I don't feel like I've
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: had a whole lot of loss in my life, which
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: I'm thankful for, but I think it puts me at
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: a disadvantage when trying to, like comment on how to
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: memorialize certain days. But for the celebrate celebratory ones, I'm
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: the type I'm like, well, you know, I I want
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: to do a Christmas trip. Why does it have to
• 47:09
  Speaker 5: be on Christmas when everything's expensive? Can we go like,
• 47:12
  Speaker 5: you know, January fifth? Yeahodox Christmas great, or like two
• 47:18
  Speaker 5: weeks earlier, Like I just I don't care about being
• 47:22
  Speaker 5: on the date, and I realize over time, I think
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: I am more alone on that than most people I
• 47:27
  Speaker 5: think a lot of people like to you know, they are, yes.
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: I think the thing that where time makes a difference
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: or why that's impactful. And we've used this analogy before
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: and it's not ours. We've stolen it from actually a comic,
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: but like grief being represented as this large ball inside
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: this small room, right and I'm sorry that there's a
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: button on the wall, which is like you're feeling. So
• 47:55
  Speaker 1: when the ball presses up against this button, that's when
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: you feel that grief. Over time, the ball gets smaller
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: and smaller, but still every once in a while it's
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: going to hit that button. Yeah, And so you just
• 48:05
  Speaker 1: have to anticipate that. Right now, everything is going to
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: remind you of your cat, and that's going to be
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: very difficult. But then over time it's not. It's gonna
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: you know, you're going to be able to heal and
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: move on. But I do like some of the things
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: that you're already doing, like you're you know, kind of
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: creating something to memorialize or kind of have some sort
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: of ritual or memorial or something. I found that that
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: was helpful for me. Like I I so, my my
• 48:32
  Speaker 1: chihuahua was Pumpkin and we had pumpkin, my son's entire life,
• 48:37
  Speaker 1: and our dog passed away like thirteen years in which
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: is still relatively young Forchuala, they can go a lot longer.
• 48:46
  Speaker 1: But she had a lot of illnesses and it was
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: really you know, difficult, and we watched her decline for
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: years and we did all the healthcare and kind of,
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: like the writer that was, that was gratifying, you know,
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: because like early in my process, the doctors were like, hey,
• 49:00
  Speaker 1: do you do you want to explore the options you
• 49:03
  Speaker 1: know where we kind of bring her to a gentle end,
• 49:06
  Speaker 1: and you know, I was for me personally, I wouldn't
• 49:08
  Speaker 1: judge anybody who chose differently, but for me personally, I
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: was like, well, no, like I'm I'm comfortable using finances
• 49:16
  Speaker 1: to get as many good days as I can with her,
• 49:19
  Speaker 1: and when we've gotten to our last good days, then
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: I will not selfishly keep her, you know, like at
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: that point, I don't want to watch her suffer. I
• 49:26
  Speaker 1: don't want her to suffer, but let's get as many
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: good days as we can, you know, as a family.
• 49:30
  Speaker 1: And so we kept her alive with healthcare treatment for
• 49:35
  Speaker 1: probably about a year and a half, you know, longer
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: because of that option, and like we memorialized her in
• 49:41
  Speaker 1: some ways, and we had a really special service where
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: they came and they did the whole procedure at our home,
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: which is very meaningful. They let us choose something to
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: read and so we wrote what we wanted to say.
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: The kids got to say goodbye. They did a paw
• 49:54
  Speaker 1: print into like a clay mold, and that was really
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: special for us because like that was you know, which
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: is your dog? It was it was my paw, Yeah,
• 50:02
  Speaker 1: and I just I just wanted to have a little
• 50:03
  Speaker 1: hand for it. Made a turkey out of it. It
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: was really nice. That was also very soothing. Yeah, they
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: could definitely tell that that's what I needed. No, but
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: like we saved some of these like paw prints, and
• 50:14
  Speaker 1: like we saved her favorite toy, and you know, like
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: I still have those things. I have the mommy bookshelf
• 50:19
  Speaker 1: at home, and you know, from time to time I
• 50:22
  Speaker 1: re visit them. It's been several years now, writer, and
• 50:25
  Speaker 1: it does get better with time. And you know, like
• 50:27
  Speaker 1: even though my dog was like a child to me,
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: it mattered to me so much. I'm reminded that there
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: are people that lose spouses. You know, there are people
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: that lose the closest people in their life, as people
• 50:37
  Speaker 1: lose parents, and it's never easy. But with time they
• 50:43
  Speaker 1: do heal and and they do go through the grieving process,
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: and over time, I'm sure they never forget the anniversary,
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: but the emotional power of that moment is not what
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: it once was. And then that's true for me now
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: about the grieving of my pet, Like, I'm very aware
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: of when this happened, but it's not the thing I
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: think about it anymore in that month. And I don't
• 51:02
  Speaker 1: like using the phrase moved on. I like to just
• 51:06
  Speaker 1: reflect that we have we have grieved, and we have healed,
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: and that's it, you.
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: Know, like it's just a new changing part, that's it.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I don't. I don't like the language of
• 51:16
  Speaker 1: moving on. I just I don't. I think that used
• 51:18
  Speaker 1: to care and now you don't. Okay, Yeah, that's how
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: I like to phrase out.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: I feel like that.
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: Why is there a cat toy in my house?
• 51:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, so no, But like writer, I guess my
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: encouragement to you is that honoring the pain now, you know,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: but in twelve months, when you get back to October again,
• 51:37
  Speaker 1: I'll bet you feel like you remember, there will be
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: an anniversary power to it. But I also think that
• 51:44
  Speaker 1: the sting will not be as powerful. The units of
• 51:46
  Speaker 1: subjective suffering will be less, and you'll be very mindful
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: of your anniversary, and I think that'll be very much
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: on your mind. Yeah, you know, that'll be more on
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: your mind. And then the next I agree with you.
• 51:55
  Speaker 5: I think what Nick said where the days will feel
• 51:57
  Speaker 5: more separate over time. Right now they're so close together,
• 52:00
  Speaker 5: but I think with time they'll feel a little more
• 52:03
  Speaker 5: like this is the second and this is the third.
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: I honestly don't remember the day that we put my
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: dog down, but even care, not at all. No, but
• 52:14
  Speaker 1: I remember my dog's birthdays just like to celebrate that.
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't.
• 52:20
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't celebrate or really remember, you know,
• 52:25
  Speaker 1: days like yeah, putting down the dog.
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: That's suppressing your emotions.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: And it's working. So you didn't write about this, writer,
• 52:35
  Speaker 1: but like for us, like there was a big debate
• 52:37
  Speaker 1: about when to have another pet.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: Oh, this is what I always wonder. I haven't been
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: through the loss of my pet, and I'm like, how
• 52:45
  Speaker 5: do people decide? Or sometimes I feel like you don't
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: even decide.
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: It's like like I mean should Peter be officially dead,
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: like I mean declared dead before I.
• 52:55
  Speaker 4: Talk like one six months?
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: Is the coroner free? Is he available? He seems really nice,
• 53:02
  Speaker 1: you know the er doctor pronounces it. You know, what
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: do we do?
• 53:05
  Speaker 3: Do I have to wait?
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: Right?
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah? What's the mill waiting period? Oh? Hello? How
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: long do you have to wait? So people don't judge
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: me yet?
• 53:14
  Speaker 4: Now, you know, Whitney.
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Dressing sluttie to the wake is just d This is
• 53:28
  Speaker 1: my uber driver, that's right. It's just like really like
• 53:33
  Speaker 1: small spaniard dude, Like, what the fuck? It's just my
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: Uber drivers. His name is Stebon and it's what Peter
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: would have wanted. He doesn't want to be driving myself
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: to the wake? Are you kidding me? He told me
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: Visa this. It took us a while to decide, like
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: when are we ready to like adopt again? But you know,
• 53:56
  Speaker 1: you have a lot of love to give, and I
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: think that, like, you know, that's a big part of
• 54:00
  Speaker 1: it too, is realizing there's a lot of hurting puppies
• 54:02
  Speaker 1: and kiddies out there that like need families, and if
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: you're the kind of family that you know, can offer
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: a lot of love and takes it seriously, why deprive
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: you know, another living thing of that love and bringing
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: them into your family. And so for us, we waited
• 54:15
  Speaker 1: a while, but then we did get to a place.
• 54:18
  Speaker 1: It wasn't you know, it wasn't years like I mean
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: with a pet, you know, like we waited.
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: There is a void that like kind of I feel like.
• 54:24
  Speaker 1: I am so used to having a pet, and when
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: you don't have your pet, it is just agony.
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: To get past that stage. I like when when we
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: put our last dog down, I I kind of just said,
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: I was like, I don't think we should get another
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: pet for a while.
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, like let's let's hold out for a while.
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: And know eventually found the dogs that we have now,
• 54:47
  Speaker 2: but we got those.
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: Maybe not quite a year later, it was it was
• 54:52
  Speaker 1: around there. Yeah, that's a good amount of time. I
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: mean that's longer than we were able to wait. We
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: waited until we like, yes, found these two dogs that
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: had been I.
• 55:01
  Speaker 3: Was going to say, sometimes it's not a choice.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: It's like they got put up for adoption. Their owner
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: died and so they were at a foster thing and
• 55:10
  Speaker 2: through I think the follows and so she found them, like,
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: oh this this seems like it'd be nice.
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: That's how we found ours too, Like we subscribed to
• 55:19
  Speaker 1: age other dogs and that's when we got them.
• 55:22
  Speaker 2: But we didn't get them. There was enough to comfort
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: us immediately after the last.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: In our case, we had little kids, you know, so
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: like for us as like, hey, our little kid, you know,
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: needed to have a pet. You know, I just thought
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: about it. Yeah, that was part of it. Yeah, you
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: had had reasons for it. And in Whitney's case, she
• 55:35
  Speaker 1: subscribes to Stebond's only fans, you know, so like she
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: wasn't planning on this the whole time. It's just oh,
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: by the way, oh.
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: My god, for a while.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Now we know each other, Yeah, I feel like we're
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: very close. I just know you, especially your butthole. So anyway,
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: he lives at the house. Yeah, it's right, he's already
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: you know, been doing a lot of extra bet. Yes
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: it's mine, but it's it's extra.
• 55:57
  Speaker 3: There's a lot in there.
• 55:58
  Speaker 1: I've been pushing Peter into the garage and then pusing
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: in the Jesus Christ, you can't do stairs upstairs, Jesus,
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: you know upstairs. I saw the Halloween decords by Gates
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: set up on the staircase so you won't come up there,
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: go towards the light. Toward the light anyway, rider. You know,
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: we empathize with you. I'm sorry that you lost Minky,
• 56:27
  Speaker 1: but you know it does get better over time. I mean,
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: your love I think is valid, and I think that
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: grief is valid. As Nick said, our expectation is therapist
• 56:35
  Speaker 1: is that you know, every it's gonna go away over time,
• 56:37
  Speaker 1: It's gonna shrink in the sense of how often this happens.
• 56:40
  Speaker 1: But then occasionally that button gets pressed and your heart
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: just sinks. And that happens to me still to this day.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: But there's still a lot of joy in the future.
• 56:48
  Speaker 1: And you know, don't be afraid to move forward when
• 56:49
  Speaker 1: you're ready and grieve appropriately, and then one day, yes,
• 56:53
  Speaker 1: it does get less and then you're able to kind
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: of let go and the calendar isn't as strong, though
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: it's still there, and you know, but like tragedy, and
• 57:01
  Speaker 1: you know that grief eventually dissipate. So just trust the process.
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: My friend. I'm sorry for your loss, but thank you
• 57:08
  Speaker 1: for sharing your story with us. I hope that eventually
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: you're able to find you know, another pet, another you know,
• 57:13
  Speaker 1: kind of fur baby to welcome into your home, and
• 57:15
  Speaker 1: I hope that you just continue to pass that love
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: forward and not not, you know, just give up on it,
• 57:19
  Speaker 1: because I think it's an important value that you have,
• 57:21
  Speaker 1: and I hope that's part of your life. We're's a
• 57:24
  Speaker 1: quick break in. When we come back, we're talking about
• 57:26
  Speaker 1: physical touch in therapy. Whitney, you're listening to pod. Today's
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: episode is brought to you by Judy Schneier, Leon Kasab,
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: Carolyn Albert Scoop, Sarah Smith, My Count, Darren Cuttingham, Tody
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: the Doloran Guy, Breaking malay Check, Max the Ginger, Scoop,
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: and Kelly o' dare. Would you like to sponsor the show?
• 57:46
  Speaker 1: Become a therapeucer picture dot Com. Sorry to Jacob barely
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: at the lead, but like I got a point. I
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: remember you have a point. I was told you know
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: what for bringing that up. I'll give you another one. Yeah,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: all right, here we go. We're gonna with Jacob backwards.
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: Now it goes to me, no, you'll be last. Yes,
• 58:04
  Speaker 1: since you get two bikes today, Apple, all right, Uh,
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: here we go. Jacob Saudi Arabia, Oh fuck oh ship
• 58:12
  Speaker 1: oil a stand uh.
• 58:16
  Speaker 2: Saudi Arabia, Babylon oh Jordan, Yes, okay, okay.
• 58:26
  Speaker 1: Iran, it's a it's a it's a it's a water border.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: It's across from the Persian Gone. Does that count? I
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: think I'll allow it. I think, yeah, that's a a.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Why not? Yeah? Wait that I think I think England
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: should have counted for the last one. Still wouldn't count,
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: Still wouldn't. All right, so Jordan's out that Iran as
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: a what's the country again? Saudi Arabia? All right, come on, Jim,
• 58:56
  Speaker 1: you can do this. So I feel like Babylon isn't
• 58:59
  Speaker 1: a thing anymore, and I feel like Sue Meyer changed
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: its name. So yeah, I feel like these are all
• 59:08
  Speaker 1: still there. Oh Egypt, Yeah, yes, good. You didn't have
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: to use this free square.
• 59:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah damn, Joe.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: Oh shit, I just had one in mind. Where did
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: it go? Oh is Rayel? Is you a? Yes? That's
• 59:28
  Speaker 1: not the same place United Arab Emirates. I kind of
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: assumed it's two names for the same place. That's where
• 59:34
  Speaker 1: like Russia, like the Soviet unions, the same place Russia
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: was in the Soviet Yeah. Not technically, Yeah, we're saying
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: the same thing. I don't think you are.
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: Ship. Let's see Saudi Arabia. Can I get a hunt?
• 59:54
  Speaker 1: Uh?
• 59:55
  Speaker 4: It's hot, there's very warm.
• 59:57
  Speaker 1: There are lots of dead dinosaurs. Uh.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: Oh no, I don't like.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 5: I have like a bunch of countries in mind, but
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 5: I can't picture where they're at.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: You got this, Let's go with hot places. Dubai Is
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: that a country? I don't know. I only know it
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: from Sex and the City.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna go with, uh, Jordan, Egypt, I don't know.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 5: I'm gonna go basic bitch because I don't know. I'm
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 5: gonna go with Iraq.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: Oh ship, yes, damn, that was my next move. All right.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: I remember George W. H. W. Bush fought a war
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: over Kuwait, and I feel like that's relevant because they
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: also have oil. I think that's why Bush is fight wars.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: So let me go with Kuwait.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, let's go George.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 1: Let's go. Uh there's more, Yes, dude, there are more. Yes?
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: There are how many more, Jesus.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 1: Let's say one, two, three, at least three more? Three?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 5: More?
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 1: Oh my god? Well maritime four five? Oh. I'm not
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 1: all about this maritime bullshit.
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 5: I think I will take it because it keeps me
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 5: a lot except about I'm gonna get you said three more?
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 5: That border Jesus Kazakhstan.
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: No, he's out me. Oh ship it's like spelling be rules.
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: The US wasn't goddamn game. I don't know, James. It
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: wasn't paying attention to the first time. Ah fuck we
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 1: I don't know very many countries in that region because
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 1: I used Egypt and then I used the one from Uh.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 3: They don't get it right? Can I have one more
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: guests for funzies?
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 1: And sure rans out Iracks out Syria?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 3: No, Jim, I'll be mad.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: Is do I have to go again? No? He's got
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: he had to throw away one gets this ones isis?
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: Oh he gets the He didn't just get two guesses,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 1: he gets miss one. He gets to miss one because
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: he's already had several guesses. I'm sorry. Did you say
• 1:02:26
  Speaker 1: your guest was isis?
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 3: No?
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 1: Right? That's a bad idea? Nope, I sure didn't mean that,
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: And I don't mean al Qaeda. That would be silly
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 1: to write al Qaeda is a bad idea? Is Afghanistan
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 1: next to it?
• 1:02:40
  Speaker 5: Though?
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Is that your guests? I feel like it's too far. No,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: because I feel like kazak Stan. Once you get to
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: the stands over there, and you had to stay away
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: from the stands. Give me ship, give me Israel. Fuck it,
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: let's go. She is reel does not have a direct border,
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 1: have a water border. It does not. John and Egypt
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: kind of pinch it off. Does that mean I want again? No,
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: you still have to spelling be rule you have to
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: get I went first of the round. He did go first,
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: and technically we didn't do spelling be.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 3: Do you have another guest for funds?
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 1: I do go for it all right, just ab. I
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 1: don't remember if it's a country or a city. Okay, okay, Qatar.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: Qatar is a country. Yeah, and it does border.
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 3: Job Jacob.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Statement about being mediocre at geography.
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: I feel like it's a bad guest now.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Uh no, Cypress, Chris Ball Rain.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 5: That's what when I thought of there's a friend of
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 5: mine who from college. She lives her husband's and oil.
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 5: She lives over there, and she went to Bahrain over
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 5: the border from Saudi Arabia. But I could not remember
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 5: the name all I could think of.
• 1:04:03
  Speaker 3: But it doesn't matter.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: So Johnson and John O places. That's what count what?
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: Okay?
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 1: Go on Oman and then uh maritime border with Sudan
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 1: and Eritrea. Geez.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 2: We just talked about that Lordita was a character in
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 2: the Never Ending Story, right, yeah, yes, his horse.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 1: Got stuck in the swamp and that's what it was.
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: That was flying dogs. I believe that's how that worked.
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 1: You know that dog was in Dumb and Dumber. Oh
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: is that right? That was a different dog?
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 4: Okay, yeah, dog vam.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: Physical touch in therapy. Haygang just had a random question
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 1: that I don't think I've heard you talk about. And
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 1: if you have, or it's too basic to warrant a
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 1: segment on the show, no harm in skipping this one. Nope. Obviously,
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: keeping an amounts of distance between yourself and a client
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: is not just smart but ethically and legally something to
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 1: get in mind. But also when someone is going through something,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: physical touch is sometimes comforting. Personally, if I'm feeling bad,
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: physically knowing someone is there does help me feel better.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: As therapists are there hard and fast rules that you
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 1: have to follow as an outsider slash not therapist. It
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 1: seems like hugging a client is probably frowned upon. But
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: if a client is crying, is it acceptable to put
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 1: a hand on their shoulder? Is it a case by
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: case basis, clearly anything that is unwanted or sexual is
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 1: not okay. But I'm curious about things like comforting someone
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 1: feeling bad or saying goodbye to a client that you've
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 1: maybe known for a while and have rapport with. As
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 1: someone who's a big hugger in general, I just wondered
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: if as professionals there's never any room for more than
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: a handshake, or if there's a place for a comforting
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: pat on the back while someone is going through something rough.
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 1: Thanks Stuart to Scoopfests and still no scoop mag I
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: feel like, culturally, this is an interesting question because women,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: I feel there's a I don't know what the rules
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 1: are on this, and so I'm really eager to hear
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: what Whitney thinks. I feel like there's an etiquette among women,
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 1: like I'll even notice at Scoopfest, like women will come
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 1: to Whitney be like, oh my god, Whitney, I'm so
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: and so you're great, and it's immediately cool for them
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 1: to hug.
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: Yes, hug everyone.
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 1: You'll hug everyone. And I don't think that's just a
• 1:06:25
  Speaker 1: Whitney thing. I feel like that's a feminine thing. It's
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 1: very normal whereas I think in masculine etiquette you don't
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: as often, but it is normal to hug Hello to
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: a female who says hi to you, is like, oh hello,
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: it's so good to see, Like you're kind of like
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: reading the situation to know like what you should or
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: should sweeten you Me and Jacob as much as I
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: would like, yeah say that. Yeah, And I've texted about
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: this a lot of people. Oh wow, I mean correct.
• 1:06:57
  Speaker 3: Jacob and I hug all the time.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, you guys are sitting next to each other,
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: snuggled up on a couch.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: I hug a lot of people at scoop Fest, very warm.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: There was a lot of hugging going on at Scoopfest.
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: That's fair. It feels like a fam union. Clinical world, though,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: is as a therapist, which.
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 3: I've never hugged a client.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 1: Shut up, yes you have. You don't hug Maybe.
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 5: Maybe a thirteen year old girl that I worked with,
• 1:07:20
  Speaker 5: But I don't even know that.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: I'm thinking, I don't know that.
• 1:07:22
  Speaker 1: I am shocked. I would just think that, like, are
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: you sure she was thirteen with me? Yeah, she was
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 1: a hot supple nineteen Oh no, she was older. Okay, yeah,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 1: you know Jim.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 3: A lot of my work with the juvenile sex offenders,
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: there wasn't.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: A lot of not a lot of hugging. Weird. It
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 1: turns out in private practice though messages right, it turns
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: out that was a bad idea. Okay, fine, not hugging
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 1: the teenage sex offender. Fine, but like your clients love languages, butts,
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: that's right? Now? What if you just want to communicate affirmation?
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: But that chapter was buried deep in the book. It
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 1: is deep between the pages and the crevass, is what
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: I might say. Those are the pages that were stuck together.
• 1:07:58
  Speaker 3: I had a client when I first dig that.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Book out from under my coffee table.
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 5: When I first started, I had a client who would
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 5: choke to session and he would look like we'd be
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 5: at a table across from each other because it was
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 5: just we had to meet in the group home and
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 5: it was not great anyway. He would look to the
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 5: side during our session, and so I would have to
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 5: like kind of confront the like, hey, what's going on?
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 5: Aren't we focused on sessionalists. At some point he would
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 5: look opposite. He would like have his back facing me.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 5: I was like, what the hell is going on? I've
• 1:08:30
  Speaker 5: never experienced this. This is something they teach you about
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 5: in your master's program. And so finally I and we
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 5: had pretty good rapport before that. When he started doing
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 5: this and finally came out, he's like, oh, basically told
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 5: me he had like maybe a dream about me and
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 5: was feeling a certain type of wayscribed.
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the only fans got out.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 5: No, they don't have internet access, so they can't they
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 5: can't find it or as far as I know.
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 1: And yeah, the cell phones get into prisons but not
• 1:08:59
  Speaker 1: at the home.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, no, no, but he received your mailer.
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 1: I'm sure.
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 5: It wasn't the poster behind me, but yeah, he basically
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 5: was like, I don't want to look at you because
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 5: I feel searchedble Bay was like, oh okay. It was
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 5: like cool, as long as you finish your treatment whatever, Like,
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 5: so I let him look wherever the fuck you wanted to.
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 5: But yeah, I think with hugging, Like I have thought
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 5: about this a couple times in session, when there's a
• 1:09:26
  Speaker 5: client who's very upset, you know, woman, female or male,
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 5: like it doesn't matter, and the urge to comfort is
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 5: there as a human, Like if I saw this human
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 5: on the street who was like upset and tearful and whatever.
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 5: I probably haven't urged it even just put an arm
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 5: around them or just like yeah, hand on their shoulder,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 5: anything that's just like.
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 3: A physical comfort.
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 5: I was waiting for Jacob's commentary, like, where is this
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 5: Giddings aod job? But I never have because that feels
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 5: like a line that once it's crossed.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, But in in Jim's I have, that's going
• 1:10:13
  Speaker 1: to happen. Yeah, on the way here, I hug him.
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 1: I feel like, hey, where are you going? That's not
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 1: how we end ourselves. Open mouthed eye contact, doing crazy
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 1: eye contact like we practice this is part of therapy
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 1: in girl culture, though, isn't it very No? Really? I
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 1: mean in girl culture, I feel like it's your next book. Yeah.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 1: Like I remember when you met my wife. That was
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 1: the first time you'd ever met her. We were at
• 1:10:40
  Speaker 1: S Jay's show. It was for Spice Girls girls, and
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 1: you'd never met her in your life, and it was
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 1: like hi, and you gave her.
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: A hot I don't even remember that.
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 1: And it just it just seems like in feminine culture
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: that almost is expected a little bit. And I don't know,
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: maybe I'm overthinking, but it just there's a dynamic here
• 1:10:58
  Speaker 1: that right, Like there's a dynamic among women and that's
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: like great, hello, Like there's some kind of message that's
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 1: being sent with hugging that maybe you wouldn't do in
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: other situation. Definite, you know that we just have to
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: press their tits together, because that's what I've seen on
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 1: the internet doesn't and that seems like.
• 1:11:14
  Speaker 3: I have to be careful of that though.
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 5: I'm thinking now, like from scoot Fest, like not knowing
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 5: these people, I don't care. I will hug, I don't care,
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 5: but I have to be more cognizant of like people
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 5: that maybe aren't as comfortable hugging and they aren't gonna
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 5: tell me no.
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 1: Are you know we initiate a hug. I consider you
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: a predatory hugger. It's something I've thought a lot.
• 1:11:33
  Speaker 5: That's my scoop name predatory predatory hugger. Oh yes, I
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 5: like this now, but no, because I actually one of
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 5: my really good friends now when we first met, I
• 1:11:43
  Speaker 5: had met her one time before, and then she got
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 5: me the job at the insurance company. So day one
• 1:11:47
  Speaker 5: I show up at the insurance company and I'm like, hey,
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 5: she meets me out fronts. You know, you need the
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 5: key card to get behind the doors. So she comes
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: out from like, hey, like we've met before, and she
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 5: had come to my house for this this thing I had,
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 5: and so I like go to give her a hug,
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 5: and I find out, like probably a week or two
• 1:12:03
  Speaker 5: later's like, oh, yeah.
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 3: I'm not really a hugger.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 5: And I was like, oh, I totally hugged you like
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 5: the first day, and she's like yeah. I was like, oh,
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 5: I'm so sorry. We're like really good friends now. But
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 5: it was just so funny because I was like default,
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: and feminine culture is like, would I need to be
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: maybe more careful and ask for those and I'll be
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 5: so predatory, you know.
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 1: So when you when you meet a new client or
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 1: you're welcoming a new client, it's a woman in person,
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 1: there's there's no handshake. You'll just do the hand.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: If it's the very first like nice to me in
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 5: person handshake and welcome, come on back, and.
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah there is. I don't ever touch my clients, even
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 3: really handshaking.
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 1: I don't even handshake, Okay, now I can see that. Yeah,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 1: hands and pocket. I think I feel like one stern
• 1:12:49
  Speaker 1: bow that hat nick curtsy, what you mean I have?
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 1: I have hugged clients. Yeah, I've never initiated. If they
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 1: go in for a hug, then I will, okay. And
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 1: that's I think mostly because in you know, substance use treatment,
• 1:13:06
  Speaker 1: in residential treatment settings, they're there twenty four hours a day. Ye,
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: that's it's very different. And that's and then they get
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: they get very hair down, and they get they get
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: very close to each other. Yes, and so they're always
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 1: hugging each other. They're very close in that sense. And
• 1:13:26
  Speaker 1: I think sometimes yeah, they just like you know, they're
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 1: they're they've successfully complete a treatment, they're doing great. They
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: hug all of their peers and then they go to me. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 1: So it's just part of your You're part of the group,
• 1:13:39
  Speaker 1: which is honestly very flattering because it's so benign. It
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: seemed as like, no, you're just we're all part of
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 1: this family or this is organization. But if client, if
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 1: if somebody is in my office and they're breaking down,
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 1: I don't go and touch them. I'll never go. And yeah,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: what's interesting about the question is it sort of presumes
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 1: like in an extreme scenario where a person's very emotional,
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 1: wouldn't you reach out in touch them and ironically, I
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 1: agree with both of you. I think most therapists the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 1: public will be surprised to find like, no, that's the
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 1: least likely time I'm going to touch you because you're
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: doing work, we're working. I don't want to disrupt this. Yeah, exactly,
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 1: I don't want to disrupt this. I don't want to
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: put a hand on you and comfort you because I
• 1:14:16
  Speaker 1: don't want to pull you out of it. And that's
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 1: what that physical motion can communicate is like that's enough,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 1: button it up and be comforted and right, feel better.
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 2: Now, stop stop dealing with this trauma, stop dealing with whatever.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 1: Putting a hand on you can communicate falsely that I'm
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 1: at the point where I need you to wrap this
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: up or you should feel better, and so we will
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 1: offer silence. That's one of the first things we're taught
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 1: in grad school is the difficulty of being in the
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: presence of somebody who is emoting and hurting and resisting
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: the urge to comfort them because this is important and
• 1:14:52
  Speaker 1: you want them to fully experience it and go through
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 1: this without pulling them out, Whereas the average human is
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 1: going to be uncomfortable and they're going to seek to
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: repair them and Nick You've talked in the past about tissues,
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: about being very mindful about Kleenex and like people offering
• 1:15:07
  Speaker 1: a hurting person the tissue box, and you've kind of
• 1:15:10
  Speaker 1: even had rules where you've said, hey, that's that's not okay,
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 1: even though you mean well, because you're you're doing exactly this. Yeah,
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: that's right. Yeah. Yeah, So we would just make sure
• 1:15:19
  Speaker 1: that it's easily accessible to anybody who wants it can
• 1:15:22
  Speaker 1: nowhere it wants.
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 2: So that somebody wouldn't have to stand up and go
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 2: get it and be disruptive.
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 1: Because what would happen is if I got a group
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 1: of ten people and somebody gets really emotional starts crying,
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: eight of them have stopped listening. Yes, they're no longer
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 1: paying attention. Now they're looking like, oh shit, oh shit,
• 1:15:38
  Speaker 1: this is we gotta we gotta stop this somehow. And
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 1: it's more about them feeling uncomfortable since somebody else cry,
• 1:15:43
  Speaker 1: than it is about that gives them and getting the
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: tissue box gives them a project, ye, gives them something
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 1: to do. Yeah, And again it can stifle the person
• 1:15:50
  Speaker 1: who's in the middle of a very important working moment therapeutically.
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: So I think that the public is usually surprised to
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 1: discover that, Like as this question presumes, it'd be like, well,
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: I know you guys general don't touch them, but in
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: this extraordinary circumstance would you. And it's like, actually, that
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 1: is a moment that we would least likely playcate a
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 1: person with touch because they're doing some very important work
• 1:16:11
  Speaker 1: and we want a therapeutically posture to like support them
• 1:16:14
  Speaker 1: in that and monitor them where I will be very
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 1: like comfortable making contact with people, Like you said, in
• 1:16:21
  Speaker 1: inpatient substance abuse settings, when you grow up in that
• 1:16:23
  Speaker 1: and you're trained in that, the rooms are very much
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 1: like this, Like substance abuse treatment is very much like
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: shoulder to shoulder. You just are used to being in
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 1: proximity to people you're you're sharing meals together. It's just
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 1: a very different vibe. And so there it's called for,
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 1: like it's meant to be a little bit more like Nope,
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 1: I'm not gonna otherize myself and be the special clinician
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: person who descends you know, like, Nope, I want to
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: be in the melu. And so I'll play Madden with you,
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: and I'll goof off with you and we'll talk sports
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: and I'll backslap you a little bit and we'll shake hands.
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: When I see you and some people pull you in
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: for the bro hug and yep, that's great. Not gonna
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: hesitate on that. So for me, I think that's my
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 1: like go to is like I'll do the bro hug
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: thing and like for me, like I'm very comfortable with that.
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: Like whenever you first meet with people, you always like
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 1: I'll give people the bro hug as a hello, and
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 1: so it doesn't freak me out like with men, like
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: that's a very comfortable move to shake down.
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: I really rarely initiate if some if I see somebody
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: coming in for a hug, then I'll hug.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 1: That's not true. I feel like I've had to chase you.
• 1:17:21
  Speaker 1: I feel like I've had to like speed walk towards you.
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: Usually go the other directions case by case and the
• 1:17:26
  Speaker 3: question yeah.
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 1: Right, okay, yeah. I feel like when I've texted you
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 1: and said, hey, heads up, I'm I really liked to
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 1: hug today, you like you didn't see it. You know.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: So there was that one time that I told Nick
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 1: to hug you. Yeah, okay, yeah, so that was you, Okay,
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 1: So I didn't know that, like I just I just
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 1: noticed he was waiting for me. Yeah, that's when I
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 1: hugged him. Okay, at that point there it is hugged
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Jim Job with that that Atlantic accent. See also for
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 1: the listeners, Nick has a previous engagement. He had to leave.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 1: That's right, and so now Jacob by, I guess there's
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 1: no more trivia. We're gonna take a quick break, and
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 1: when we come back, we're wrapping up the show. You're
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: listening to pod therapy something something this has brought to you.
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 1: I don't know what.
• 1:18:11
  Speaker 2: Patreons out there, everybody who supports the show on Patreon,
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 1:18:16
  Speaker 1: There it is. It means the world there it is.
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: Get out there, Patreon dot com slash therapy. Yeah, you
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 2: can go over there right now, throw a few picks
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: in the hat. You get all this stuff on Discord,
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 2: you get all this extended show stuff.
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 1: It's all really great. And also there's a brand new
• 1:18:30
  Speaker 1: thing on there, the studio to be named after you
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 1: for a single episode. Go over there, Patreon dot com
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 1: slash therapy, which I'll probably forget about. Okay, last trivia
• 1:18:40
  Speaker 1: name places adjacent to the place I'm about to.
• 1:18:44
  Speaker 4: Say, Ready, Ready, Australia, New Zealand.
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know, is that is that right? Is it? Like?
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's next to it. It's a bare
• 1:18:56
  Speaker 1: gonna go with the majority vote. I mean, if we're
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 1: doing America, what is the minimum Japan? Yes, you guys
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 1: are those things on both sides of water kills? Right?
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 5: Like?
• 1:19:20
  Speaker 1: Once you allow for maritime borders, it's all.
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: I'm anti maritime borders, everybody, all the listeners out there,
• 1:19:26
  Speaker 2: I need you to get on the discord.
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 1: Yes, and I need to rail against all.
• 1:19:32
  Speaker 2: Of the maritime borders in the Trivia's okay, The maritime
• 1:19:36
  Speaker 2: borders should not be allowed.
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 1: And I need for this to be a big deal. Okay, yeah,
• 1:19:41
  Speaker 1: this is the hell we should die on. As a
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 1: wrap up the show, I want to remind you can
• 1:19:44
  Speaker 1: go to patron dot com. That's right. You can get
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: our extended show ad free a day earlier, as well
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 1: as enjoy our live chat discord community and our weekly
• 1:19:52
  Speaker 1: or sporadic deep dives, interviews, skill shares, research roundups and rants.
• 1:19:57
  Speaker 1: We've got some new friends to the therap party at
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 1: Patreon slash therapy. Do you have a script? Whatney do
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 1: you want to say?
• 1:20:02
  Speaker 3: Who they are Kaylee Sorell is a new therapath.
• 1:20:06
  Speaker 1: Kayla, Kaylee or Kaylee? However the fuck you pronounce it
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: is a friend of Sammy Scoop.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 2: Did you just correct someone?
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 1: Fuck them? Yeah? Yeah, read it. It's Kaylee. It can
• 1:20:19
  Speaker 1: I think it's Kayla.
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 2: I'm going to assume it's Kaylee, and if it's Kayla,
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: I will be pleasantly surprised.
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: Let's go get it in kay Yes.
• 1:20:28
  Speaker 1: So this is a really funny story where Sammy Scoop
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: shared a screenshot of a text conversation she's having with
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 1: her coworker, who is Kaylee Okay, and it was something
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: I saw pot therapy or something like that, or Kaylee
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: heard an episode in which Sammy Scoop is referenced and
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, they referenced you on the show.
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 1: And then Nick and I jumped in on the discord
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 1: and basically just talked shit to this person who he
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 1: knew couldn't see it. Yeah, and then she joined and
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 1: then Sammy was like, hey, they're talking about you in
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: the discord and she was like fuck that. I'll put
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 1: a dollar in the hat to find out what's what's
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 1: going on? People just yep, boys, just neg girls and
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 1: eventually they will come hang out with you. They'll give
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: you a dollar.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 3: That's to Mike Lush welcome, yep.
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: And that's the one who we just won money from bet.
• 1:21:16
  Speaker 1: That's the one where gave money back to Whitney after
• 1:21:20
  Speaker 1: losing a bet. So we're doing really good with just
• 1:21:22
  Speaker 1: like directly roping people into the Skeivinity gambling. Yep. That's
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: it's working for us. We'd also, of course like to
• 1:21:28
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• 1:21:32
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• 1:21:50
  Speaker 1: who's getting his ass beat by Jim this week in
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• 1:22:22
  Speaker 1: Crimes and l e O Dare And if you'd like
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• 1:22:33
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• 1:22:36
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• 1:22:45
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• 1:22:47
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• 1:23:02
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• 1:23:11
  Speaker 3: I'm Jim, I'm Whitney.
• 1:23:13
  Speaker 1: And I'm Jim. Thanks and we'll see for your appointment
• 1:23:16
  Speaker 1: next week. To Jim, why did you introduce yourself twice?
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 1: Because I'm both gyms. That's rare that you're introducer fries.
• 1:23:22
  Speaker 1: Jeff is a weird Jim. What are you talk about?
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: I'm right here. I'm also here from Iowa Atlantic Prohibition era.
• 1:23:35
  Speaker 1: Like the penguin, I'll bet you I can name one
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 1: state that borders Iowa is part of that. That cook
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 1: guy that this boots is uh, Louisiana.
• 1:23:43
  Speaker 3: What are you saying?
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 1: You don't you know the guy in the map that
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 1: looks like a man with a chef hat. Oh oh,
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Is he part of that? He might
• 1:23:51
  Speaker 1: be Fuck say bye.