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Catching our Breath with some FAQs · The Grammar of Classical Education

0:07
SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome to the Grammar of Classical Education, a podcast that covers the foundations as well as the philosophical and theoretical ideas of classical learning in a user-friendly and, may I even say, interesting way.
0:29
SPEAKER_00: I'm your host, Dr. Darlene Gomes from Leading to Wonder, and I'm so glad that you could join me today.
0:39
SPEAKER_00: 15 weeks of studying the seven laws of teaching and the lost tools of learning, I thought in honor of Christopher Perrin's Eight Essentials of Classical Pedagogy, we needed to take a breather week.
0:56
SPEAKER_00: A week of multum non multa, much, not many.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: And the festina lente, the making haste slowly.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: as well as skole learning, that learning from rest and leisure, the passion behind what we do.
1:20
SPEAKER_00: So this week, what we're going to do is kind of coast to a pause and just answer a few of the questions that I have received over the past 15 weeks.
1:34
SPEAKER_00: The first question is, well, classical schools are really just pretty much like traditional Christian schools, right?
1:43
SPEAKER_00: Well, straight off, the answer is no, not really.
1:50
SPEAKER_00: Now, let me tell you, first of all,
1:53
SPEAKER_00: Please remember, I am coming from a classical mindset, hence the name of the podcast, The Grammar of Classical Education.
2:04
SPEAKER_00: I will say, very often, the mindset of the Christian values are going to be the same.
2:15
SPEAKER_00: But there are some distinct differences, more so as Christian education in the traditional Christian school has really become more popular.
2:29
SPEAKER_00: progressive.
2:31
SPEAKER_00: It has stayed a step, a cautious step behind what progressive schools are doing, but it still has moved more toward that mindset.
2:47
SPEAKER_00: than what you've seen covered in the Lost Tools of Learning and even in the Seven Laws of Teaching.
2:55
SPEAKER_00: So basically, to look at it, I want you to consider there's classical education and then progressive education, realizing that I'm not using the term traditional in there.
3:11
SPEAKER_00: Because traditional education has shifted from where it was, we'll say, 50, 70 years ago.
3:21
SPEAKER_00: It has made a shift.
3:24
SPEAKER_00: So I want you to go in with the mindset that classical education, as opposed to progressive education, and realizing that traditional Christian schools are
3:38
SPEAKER_00: can be anywhere in between those two.
3:43
SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, we've seen a little bit more of a shift toward the progressive side.
3:49
SPEAKER_00: To help you out understanding that, let's take a quick look at the comparison of those two.
3:58
SPEAKER_00: According to Classical Academic Press, they said classical education
4:04
SPEAKER_00: emphasizes the seeking after truth, goodness, and beauty, and the study of the liberal arts and the great books.
4:15
SPEAKER_00: All of that having been placed under the virtues and the understanding of the fact that we are not just classical education, but we are Christian classical education.
4:32
SPEAKER_00: In a classical school,
4:34
SPEAKER_00: Facts are taught to students.
4:38
SPEAKER_00: Knowledge is gained from the past.
4:41
SPEAKER_00: And as they progress through the educational system, they are thinking about those facts that they have solidly been given and then taught how to logically think them through.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Before communicating them that we covered in the last tools of learning with the grammar rhetoric and the logic level fitting between the two of those contrast that.
5:15
SPEAKER_00: with progressive education.
5:18
SPEAKER_00: And I can give you the list of resources where I pulled this information from, but I want you to know it's coming from everything between what the progressive educators have said themselves and even some research journals about progressive education.
5:38
SPEAKER_00: Basically, you can sum it up as progressive education is based on the principles espoused by John Dewey and others.
5:48
SPEAKER_00: that education must prepare students for active participation in a democratic global society.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: It is inquiry and project-based.
6:01
SPEAKER_00: It is child-centered.
6:03
SPEAKER_00: They learn by doing.
6:06
SPEAKER_00: Knowledge is gained from experience and knowledge is discovered rather than taught.
6:15
SPEAKER_00: So with that right there being our framework, can you see the decided difference between classical education and progressive education?
6:29
SPEAKER_00: And understanding that what we would call traditional Christian education is
6:36
SPEAKER_00: has made more of a shift toward progressive philosophy than it has toward classical philosophy.
6:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that it is only classical education is the only way.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: If you're not doing it that way, then you're wrong.
6:54
SPEAKER_00: But again, please understand the mindset that I am approaching this in my podcast, The Grammar of Classical Education.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: is coming from the classical model.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: Just to sum this up and to help kind of bring it all home, classical education and specifically Christian classical education is helping to create a free man.
7:24
SPEAKER_00: under the jurisdiction of Christ, but creating a free man, progressive education is creating a man fit for society.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: If you think about it in other terms, classical education is teaching students how to think to be free men.
7:50
SPEAKER_00: And the progressive education is how to do to be fitting to society.
7:57
SPEAKER_00: With that being said, a free man who can think can benefit society probably more than a man who has been told what to think and how to do a job.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: So if you are looking at traditional Christian education, you have to say, what is it doing as far as what it's teaching?
8:28
SPEAKER_00: Is it more along the inquiry-based, project-based, child-centered, learn by doing?
8:36
SPEAKER_00: That is moving toward progressive education as opposed to the didactic teaching.
8:42
SPEAKER_00: Students are taught facts.
8:45
SPEAKER_00: Knowledge comes from the past.
8:48
SPEAKER_00: Knowledge is learned from facts, not discovered from my experience.
8:55
SPEAKER_00: Which brings up the question, what is truth?
8:59
SPEAKER_00: And how are students taught truth?
9:02
SPEAKER_00: Classical education is of the mindset truth is found in the word of God with definitive right and wrong.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Progressive education says truth is discovered and is based on my experiences.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: So.
9:21
SPEAKER_00: Are they different, classical Christian education and traditional Christian education?
9:27
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but it kind of depends upon where that traditional Christian school sets on the spectrum between classical and progressive education.
9:40
SPEAKER_00: So that was a rather lengthy answer, but that really is the foundation.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: And yet I do want to put in here the fact that the principles that we have looked at in the Seven Laws and the Lost Tools
9:57
SPEAKER_00: are mainly best practices of how to teach.
10:03
SPEAKER_00: It's going to bash a little bit with that progressive when you do have teaching taking place, but understand that the foundation is different between the two.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: Realizing I'm coming from a classical mindset of
10:21
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully that does help to clarify the similarities and differences between classical and traditional learning.
10:30
SPEAKER_00: Another question I have received is, is it possible to be a good classical teacher and still have a life outside of the classroom?
10:43
SPEAKER_00: This question I personally have had.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: I've heard it from teachers in classical schools and traditional Christian schools and public schools.
10:54
SPEAKER_00: It is an overarching question for teachers in general.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: And I wish the answer was an easy one.
11:04
SPEAKER_00: Well, I should say the answer is easy, but the practical application of it is challenging.
11:12
SPEAKER_00: Is it possible to have a good teacher with a life outside of the classroom?
11:19
SPEAKER_00: Yes, but it is going to take work.
11:25
SPEAKER_00: Now, I don't like the term work-life balance.
11:30
SPEAKER_00: It's just a personal thing.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: I don't like the philosophical baggage that comes with that.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: I prefer to think of it as plate spinning.
11:40
SPEAKER_00: We as teachers have many plates that we need to keep spinning all at the same time.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: We have our teacher plate and everything that is involved with being a teacher, but we also have our spouse plate.
11:58
SPEAKER_00: We have children plates if we have multiple children, multiple plates.
12:04
SPEAKER_00: We have hopefully a church plate that we keep spinning.
12:10
SPEAKER_00: We have just a life plate of kind of a catch-all of everything else that comes in that we need to keep moving to.
12:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, if you've ever watched a plate spinner, they are able to maintain all plates moving at the same time.
12:33
SPEAKER_00: Are they able to do it by standing still and just thinking about all of their plates?
12:38
SPEAKER_00: No, they actually have to.
12:41
SPEAKER_00: to be there and keep those plates moving, which, by the way, is a whole way cool, interesting background on scientifically what helps keep plates spinning.
12:55
SPEAKER_00: But enough to say that
12:58
SPEAKER_00: The Guinness Book of World Records for plate spinning is 108 plates spinning at the same time by one guy who did have an assistant.
13:10
SPEAKER_00: We have our handful of plates that we need to keep spinning, and it is a job to do so.
13:18
SPEAKER_00: First thing I want to recognize is that overarching above all of these plates is
13:26
SPEAKER_00: is first off our relationship with the Lord.
13:30
SPEAKER_00: If that gets out of whack, then we're going to have a hard time keeping those other ones going with any kind of ability, with any kind of sanity, with any kind of joyful heart.
13:44
SPEAKER_00: So not considered a plate, but an overarching over it all is our relationship with the Lord.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: Now to keeping those plates spinning, the key is being able to be wise in your choices and efficient in your time.
14:05
SPEAKER_00: I say this as preaching to the choir because this has never been one of my strong suits.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: I honestly admit that.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: It is something that I am still a work in progress on.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: But what I want to do is take just a look at the teaching plate and give you some hopefully...
14:28
SPEAKER_00: helpful suggestions that I found because really this is just my view on how in the 34 years of teaching I have seen it done well, how I've not done it well, what I've learned from my own mistakes.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: Just looking at that teacher plate and realizing it is one of many that you have to keep moving.
14:53
SPEAKER_00: First of all, you have to be wise and efficient with your use of time.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Using time in school for in-school projects.
15:02
SPEAKER_00: i tended to always say oh i can just grade it at home and i'll socialize now not saying don't ever socialize that is a really crucial element of teaching but being able to say as i have seen some of my fellow teachers say oh yeah i can't really chat right now i've got to get these papers graded that's okay that's wise that allows you the time later to spin other plates
15:30
SPEAKER_00: So being efficient with your use of time, being wise in your assessment of your students.
15:38
SPEAKER_00: We should never be giving out just homework for homework's sake to keep them busy, to give them stuff to do.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: Anything we assign should have a purpose and should be graded, checked, returned to the students for feedback as soon as possible.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: I say this because this was always a challenge for me.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Do you realize that when you have students do work and you don't give them the feedback of their work, it has done them very little good?
16:18
SPEAKER_00: It did give them a little review, but it doesn't tell them how they're doing.
16:23
SPEAKER_00: You have to be wise with your use of time, wise in your assessment.
16:29
SPEAKER_00: You have to be creative with that assessment and returning that assessment in efficient manners.
16:39
SPEAKER_00: That may mean
16:40
SPEAKER_00: that you grade papers together.
16:43
SPEAKER_00: This is mainly when you get to that fourth grade and up.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: An example is math assignments.
16:52
SPEAKER_00: I would take the time to grade them in class because that allowed for quick and efficient feedback.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: My rules are when we grade together, pencils are hidden away, red pens are out.
17:07
SPEAKER_00: My job as a teacher to make sure Satan's job as the tempter to cheat is really, really hard.
17:15
SPEAKER_00: So pencils are hidden away.
17:17
SPEAKER_00: Red pens are out.
17:19
SPEAKER_00: Here are the answers to 1, 2, 3, 4, 5.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: Do we have any questions?
17:24
SPEAKER_00: If I've seen them doing a lot of marking wrong and I'm looking across to my students and I see a lot of red marks, I am definitely going to stop and say, okay, does anyone have any questions?
17:38
SPEAKER_00: If I'm not getting any questions, my next statement is, well, I'll wait for three questions before we move on.
17:45
SPEAKER_00: They're going to ask the questions eventually.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: especially if you are teaching them and encouraging them to understand that mistakes and wrong answers are not a bad thing.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: They mean you're learning.
18:01
SPEAKER_00: You're learning how not to do it so you don't do it the same way next time.
18:06
SPEAKER_00: That mindset is going to make it so they are freer to be able to ask those questions.
18:14
SPEAKER_00: So efficiently grading them and returning them, that can be done by grading them in class, having creative methods and ways of assessing them.
18:26
SPEAKER_00: For example, on a history worksheet, they had to do their answers in complete sentences.
18:34
SPEAKER_00: I would go through
18:35
SPEAKER_00: check of correct answers, and then at the same time, do an assessment on their writing of a sentence.
18:42
SPEAKER_00: Did they have a capital letter and an end mark?
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SPEAKER_00: Grab my highlighter, just check, capital letter, end mark, highlight those.
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SPEAKER_00: They know that I have then graded for two separate things.
18:54
SPEAKER_00: I have efficiently used my time.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: Another example, grading writing assignments.
19:01
SPEAKER_00: If your students are doing a lot of writing, which they should be as they're getting older, don't feel that you have to grade every single element of every single writing assignment.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: My personal opinion is take a focus or two, grade those.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: Now, there are going to be some papers where every element needs to be graded.
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SPEAKER_00: And that's okay.
19:27
SPEAKER_00: You should do that to get an overview.
19:30
SPEAKER_00: But there are times where you can focus in on what you're grading.
19:37
SPEAKER_00: Back to that teacher plate spinning.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: You need to be efficient with your use of time.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: You need to be wise with your assessment.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: You need to grade and return in a timely manner.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: You need to be able to say, what I am doing, I am doing to the best of my ability.
20:01
SPEAKER_00: If you're not, there's a couple things that you can do to help that plate stay spinning.
20:08
SPEAKER_00: You can assess what am I expecting of my students?
20:14
SPEAKER_00: Is it enough to assess?
20:16
SPEAKER_00: And am I doing a good job of assessing their abilities?
20:22
SPEAKER_00: That is going to be what is needed in your classroom.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: If there comes a time where you are doing everything you can and you're still not able to keep that plate spinning, my one suggestion is reach out.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Whether you talk to an administrator, whether you get advice from somebody who you've seen that is good at that, reach out, get some help,
20:52
SPEAKER_00: to figure out how to make your plates spinning more effective.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: I genuinely wish there was an easier answer to that question, but there isn't.
21:06
SPEAKER_00: It really is spinning plates and you are going to feel like you are just running from place to place.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: It's not always going to be like that.
21:19
SPEAKER_00: you will get into eventually a rhythm, even if it takes a while.
21:25
SPEAKER_00: But realize, first and foremost, you must protect your relationship with the Lord, making that a priority.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: And then seeking out
21:36
SPEAKER_00: fellow educators who are good in the areas where you are weaker, or even the ones who are better in general at catching all of their plates, they will no doubt be more than happy to share their tidbits of information.
21:57
SPEAKER_00: I have gleaned so much over the years from just getting information.
22:04
SPEAKER_00: the insight of my fellow educators.
22:07
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's jump into our very last question, which honestly, I will tell you, could be a podcast in and of itself.
22:19
SPEAKER_00: We are not going to go that deep into the subject.
22:23
SPEAKER_00: But the question is, what is Skolay teaching and how can we have it?
22:32
SPEAKER_00: Well, let's start out backtracking just a little bit for those of you who may not be as familiar or have even heard of Skolay teaching.
22:44
SPEAKER_00: Let me give you a running start with Merriam-Webster's definition.
22:49
SPEAKER_00: Skolay, to the Greeks,
22:51
SPEAKER_00: Leisure allowed a man to spend time thinking and finding out about things.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: Hence the connection between leisure and the pursuit of knowledge and eventually to a place of learning.
23:08
SPEAKER_00: Skolay is learning in or learning at leisure.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: Skolay is the root of our word school.
23:20
SPEAKER_00: So Skolay learning is truly learning from and at leisure.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: If you're anything like me,
23:31
SPEAKER_00: Your first thought is there is no way you can connect school and leisure at all.
23:38
SPEAKER_00: But in actuality, that is the base of it.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Now, I need you to realize also we're not talking the leisure layout on a beach somewhere, not doing any work at all.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: No, it is back to that definition where the leisure allows us the time to invest in learning and that passion that comes from following our desire to learn.
24:09
SPEAKER_00: And that is actually what we are to be doing today.
24:15
SPEAKER_00: in classical education, creating the environment of true scolay learning.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: I did find this little tiny tidbit from an article by Harvest Homeschool Academy, a co-op in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
24:35
SPEAKER_00: And I just loved how they really concisely put it, what is scolay learning?
24:42
SPEAKER_00: And
24:42
SPEAKER_00: It is characterized by a vigorous energy of wonder instead of a severe, dry atmosphere of rigor.
24:53
SPEAKER_00: Now, today, rigor is one of those educational catchphrases of the moment.
24:59
SPEAKER_00: We are to be increasing rigor.
25:01
SPEAKER_00: Well...
25:03
SPEAKER_00: We are not to be increasing work for the sake of work.
25:07
SPEAKER_00: We are not to be increasing hard labor for the sake of hard labor.
25:12
SPEAKER_00: But we are to be encouraging the rigor, the hard work
25:20
SPEAKER_00: out of a vigorous energy and enthusiasm to learn, not, as this little statement said, a severe, dry atmosphere of rigor.
25:35
SPEAKER_00: It should be a passionate, exciting experience of learning.
25:42
SPEAKER_00: Now, the hard part with this is it is encouraging and moving toward that deep contemplation, that chance to think deeply about the things we're learning, not skimming surfaces.
26:05
SPEAKER_00: This is most clearly seen, I think, when you look at
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Things like Dorothy Sayers and the Lost Tools of Learning.
26:14
SPEAKER_00: She talked about combining the subjects.
26:18
SPEAKER_00: We tend to say we learn history in history class.
26:23
SPEAKER_00: We learn reading in reading class.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: We learn grammar in grammar class.
26:27
SPEAKER_00: We learn Bible in Bible class.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: But Skolay learning is coming more from the unification and the deep thinking
26:39
SPEAKER_00: of all of those subjects together.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: That again, we referenced the term omnibus in our Lost Tools of Learning podcast, where you learn biblical principles in the context of a historical time period with
26:58
SPEAKER_00: reading selections from that time period and you're getting the writing in with that as well.
27:07
SPEAKER_00: It's combining everything together, allowing our students to focus deeply instead of just a checklist of here's the things that we discussed this year.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: The question then becomes, how do we have Skolay learning?
27:26
SPEAKER_00: Well, it's not just we learn in joy and pleasure and fun, rainbows and unicorn and sunshine and flowers.
27:37
SPEAKER_00: That is not true scolay learning.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: Scolay learning is hard work, but think of it this way.
27:44
SPEAKER_00: It is more of a mindset than a timestamp.
27:50
SPEAKER_00: It's the idea of creating that place, that space,
27:57
SPEAKER_00: for deep thinking, for contemplation, for joy and excitement, and leading our students to wonder.
28:09
SPEAKER_00: That's what our goal is with classical education.
28:13
SPEAKER_00: Now it is not done.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: I love how Christopher Perrin has addressed this in several of his articles online, like he did in a 2018 Inside Classical Education article entitled Piling It On.
28:33
SPEAKER_00: Why Classical Schools Have Too Many Periods and Teach Too Many Subjects.
28:39
SPEAKER_00: He addresses the fact that the reason we and classical schools have just the what appears to be the bare bones basics is
28:52
SPEAKER_00: is allowing our students that space to enjoy and dig in to what they are learning.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: It can be amazing when they're given the time on various levels, obviously in various ways, to really play with the knowledge that they are learning.
29:18
SPEAKER_00: So when I was asked, how on earth can we have Skolay learning when there's so much that we have to teach?
29:27
SPEAKER_00: Like I said, think about it as a mindset more than a timestamp.
29:34
SPEAKER_00: It is creating that place and that space for enthusiastic joy and passion and wonder, not a timestamp of, okay, we have this, we have to cover and we have this and we have this and we have this and I've got to make sure this and this.
29:53
SPEAKER_00: It will require rigor and hard work.
29:57
SPEAKER_00: but not just for the sake of rigor and hard work.
30:03
SPEAKER_00: It is going to require a little more flexibility, but yet maintaining that ability to say, here is what we need to do.
30:15
SPEAKER_00: Now,
30:16
SPEAKER_00: Personally, I think this can open up a lot more discussion on the grammar school level of what does it really look like on the grammar school level?
30:29
SPEAKER_00: Is it different than on the logic and rhetoric level?
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Because the grammar school really is, again, laying that grammar foundation of all subjects, the building blocks.
30:42
SPEAKER_00: So again, if we think about it as being a mindset of creating that joyful learning, we can make every day skole learning coming from skole teaching, coming from our joy and our passion and moving out toward our students.
31:10
SPEAKER_00: I hope this little breather break has been a relaxing, restful pause before we jump into our next book, which I am so excited to go through with you.
31:24
SPEAKER_00: It is The Liberal Arts Tradition, A Philosophy of Christian Classical Education by Kevin Clark and Ravi Scott Jane.
31:35
SPEAKER_00: I had the opportunity to be in an in-service training with Ravi Jain.
31:42
SPEAKER_00: And I have to tell you, his passion for classical education was so inspiring.
31:51
SPEAKER_00: And I hope that as we look through this book together, you'll have a better understanding of the solid foundation upon which classical education is built.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: and also some practical ways to put it to use in your everyday classroom.
32:10
SPEAKER_00: So whether you are all in with classical ed, or you're just kind of curious, or even you just want to be a better teacher, I hope you'll stick around and join us for this next podcast.
32:33
SPEAKER_00: To get the latest episode, as well as a fun little teacher's newsletter, complete with a couple of classroom freebies, please sign up for the Leading to Wonder newsletter.
32:50
SPEAKER_00: Or you can subscribe to the podcast directly on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: To learn more about me and Leading to Wonder, you can visit my website at leadingtowonder.com.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: No spaces.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: And finally, to reach out to me directly with questions or comments or even for information regarding in-house or virtual teacher training workshops.
33:31
SPEAKER_00: feel free to email me at Darlene at leading to wonder.com.
33:39
SPEAKER_00: Have an amazing week.
33:42
SPEAKER_00: And remember, as E.B.
33:44
SPEAKER_00: White said, always be on the lookout for the presence of wonder.