Latest / The Vault: The Epstein Files / Mega Edition: An NYPD Detective Gives Testimony To The Maxwell Grand Jury In 2021 (Part 1-4) (9/18/26)

Transcript

Mega Edition: An NYPD Detective Gives Testimony To The Maxwell Grand Jury In 2021 (Part 1-4) (9/18/26) · The Vault: The Epstein Files

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Epstein Chronicles. About a week ago or so, we took
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: a look at some grand jury documents from the SDNY
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: that had to do with Glenn Maxwell. Well, in this episode,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: we're going to begin taking a look at more grand
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: jury documents, this time from a different special agent that
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: was involved in the investigation into Glenn Maxwell. And as
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: we go over this document, the format will be the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: same format that we use all the time. I'll say question,
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: and that will mean the person asking the question is speaking, obviously,
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: and then answer is from the witness. And unfortunately, there
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: aren't any names here. Everything seems to be redacted when
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: it comes to information. So, with that said, let's get started. Redacted,
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: called as a witness, having been duly sworn by the
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: foreperson of the grand jury, was examined and testified as
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: follows by Ms. Redacted. Question, good morning. Answer, good morning. Question,
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: would you please state your name for the record? Answer,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: Detective Redacted. Question, Detective Redacted, where do you work? Answer,
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: New York City Police Department. Question, I'm going to ask
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you to please keep your voice up and speak as
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: slowly as you can. Redacted, and can you pull the
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: microphone towards you so that everyone in this big room
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: can hear you? Thank you. Where do you work? Answer,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: New York City Police Department. Question, and what is your
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: title there? Answer, detective. Question, how long have you been
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: with the NYPD? Answer, about 15 years. Question, are you
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: currently part of a federal task force? Answer, yes. Question,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: what task force? Answer, the Child Exploitation and Human Trafficking
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: Task Force with the FBI. Question, what is your title
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: on the task force? Answer, task force officer. Question, how
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: long have you been a task force officer with the FBI? Answer.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: Since about 2017. Question. Generally, what are your duties and
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: responsibilities on the task force? Answer. We address cases of
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: child sex trafficking, adult sex trafficking, child pornography, and child enticement. Question.
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: Over the last approximately three years, have you been involved
• 2:11
  Speaker 1: in an investigation into Jeffrey Epstein and his associates, including
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: an individual named Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer. Yes. Question. During your investigation,
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: have you spoken with other people, including other law enforcement officers? Answer, yes. Question,
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others and
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: transcripts of testimony in other court and grand jury proceedings? Answer, yes. Question,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: will your testimony be based in part on those conversations
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: and documents that you have reviewed? Answer, yes. Question, ladies
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: and gentlemen, some of the testimony you're going to hear
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: from Detective Redacted will include hearsay. That means he is
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: not going to testify only from his own personal observation.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: He will also be testifying about what other people have
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: told him and what he has read in documents. Hearsay evidence,
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: as you know, is admissible and proper in these proceedings,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: and you are permitted to rely on it in determining
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: whether there is probable cause to indict the defendant. But
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: if you want to hear testimony from other witnesses or
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: see particular documents, please let me know, and I will
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: make my best effort to bring those before you. Misredacted. Question. Detective.
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Over the course of your investigation as another member of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: the FBI task force you're a part of testified before
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: a different grand jury about the facts of this case? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I'd like to ask you to please pick up what
• 3:38
  Speaker 1: should be in front of you and marked as grand
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: jury exhibit three. Do you recognize that? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: Is this a document of fair and accurate transcript of
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: testimony given? by special agent redacted before a different grand
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: jury on June 29th, 2020. And that was the grand
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: jury documents we looked at previously, just so everybody's up
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: to date. Answer, yes. Question, I'd like to read back
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: to you a portion of this transcript. We will start
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: at page two, line 18. I will read the questions.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: You read the answers. Question, where do you currently work? Answer,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Question, what is your title? Answer,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: special agent. Question, How long have you worked as a
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: special agent? Answer, about three years now. Question, where are
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: you currently assigned? Answer, I work on the Violent Crimes
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: Against Children Squad. Question, what are your duties and responsibilities
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: as a special agent on the squad? Answer, we investigate
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: crimes that have to do with children, sexual abuse materials, extortion, exploitation,
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: and enticement of minors, sex trafficking. Ms. Redacted, you can
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: stop there. I'll now jump to page four, line 13. Question,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: have you participated in an investigation of Glenn Maxwell? Answer, yes,
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: I have. Question, have you spoken to other people, including
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: other law enforcement officers, about this investigation? Answer, yes. Question,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: have you reviewed reports and documents prepared by others regarding
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: the case? Answer, yes. Question, is your testimony today, based
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: in part on those conversations with other law enforcement officers,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: and documents that you have reviewed? Answer, yes. Question. Ms. Redacted,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: stepping out of the readback, at this point the AUSA
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: provided the same hearsay instruction to the grand jury at
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: that time as I just provided to you all. So
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: that instruction applies with respect to Redacted's testimony the same
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: way it applies to Detective Redacted's testimony. We can now
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: go down to page 15, line 17 by Ms. Redacted. Question. Redacted,
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: we've placed on the desk in front of you a
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: PowerPoint that is a grand jury exhibit too, which we're
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: entering into the record. Do you recognize this? Answer, yes. Question,
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: what is it? Answer, it's a PowerPoint presentation to assist
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: in testifying today. Question, did you participate in preparing this
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: exhibit in connection with your testimony today? Answer, yes, I did. Question,
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: if you could please turn to the first slide. Who
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: are the individuals depicted in the first slide? Answer. The
• 6:13
  Speaker 1: picture on the left is Glenn Maxwell. And the picture
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: on the right is Jeffrey Epstein with Glenn Maxwell. Question.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: Based on your participation in this investigation and your review
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: of public source material, have Maxwell and Epstein been photographed
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: together many times over the years? Answer. Yes. Question. Based
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: on your participation in this investigation and your review of
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: public material, where is Maxwell from? Answer. Maxwell was born
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: in France. She grew up in the United Kingdom. and
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: was educated in Oxford, and is from a very wealthy family. Question,
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: is she a citizen of France, the United Kingdom, and
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: the United States? Answer, yes. Question, how old is she currently? Answer, 58. Question,
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: has the FBI investigated Maxwell and Epstein's conduct with minors
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: during the 90s? Answer, yes. Question, generally speaking, what have
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: you learned about the relationship between Maxwell and Epstein during
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: the 90s? Answer, Epstein and Maxwell had a romantic relationship,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: and she also worked for him, managing his homes, hiring
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: and firing individuals. Question, during that time period, was she
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: one of his closest associates? Answer, yes. Question, during the
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: course of the investigation, have you learned where Epstein maintained
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: properties in the 90s? Answer, yes. Question, where did he
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: maintain his properties? Answer, New York, Palm Beach, and New Mexico.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: Turning to the next slide, did he maintain an address
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: in Manhattan located at 9 East 71st Street? Answer, yes. Question,
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: does the slide fairly and accurately depict the residence? Answer, yes. Question,
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: can you please describe that property for the grand jury? Answer,
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: it's a seven-story home, it's located near Central Park, and
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: it's reportedly the largest residence in Manhattan. Question, Based on
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: your participation in this investigation, did that house include a
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: room that was used as a massage room? Answer, yes
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: it did. Question, alright, we'll talk more about that later.
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: But for now, moving on to the other properties. Did
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: he maintain an address in Palm Beach, Florida located at
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: 358 El Brío Way? Answer, yes. Question, turning to the
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: next slide. Does this slide fairly and accurately depict the residence? Answer,
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: yes it does. Question, yes. Could you please describe the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: property for the grand jury? Answer. It's a waterfront estate.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: It has an in-ground pool and a detached dwelling or
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: pool house on the property as well. Question. Aside from
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: your participation in the investigation, your review of other material,
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: did that house include a room that was used as
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: a massage room? Answer. Yes. Question. Turning to the next property.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: Did Epstein also own a ranch in New Mexico? Answer. Yes,
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: he did. Question. And turning to the next slide. Where
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: was the property located at 49 Zorro Ranch in Stanley,
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: New Mexico? Answer, yes. Question. Looking at the photograph on
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: this slide, does it accurately depict that property? Answer, yes
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: it does. Question. And we've been talking about the properties
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: that Epstein owned during this time period. Did he also
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: own a private jet? Answer, yes. Question. Is it fair
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: to say that he was a multi-millionaire during this time period? Answer, yes. Question.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: During the 1990s, did Epstein have an employee redacted who
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: ran his house in Palm Beach? Answer. Yes, he did. Question.
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: What was his job? Answer. His job was making sure
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: that everything in that house ran smoothly. He referred, he described,
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: that Epstein liked to have his house run like a
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: five-star hotel and that everything had to be in its
• 9:44
  Speaker 1: proper place. So he was responsible for managing that. Question.
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: Have you interviewed or redacted? Answer. Yes. Question. How many times? Answer. Twice. Question.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: And is the information you're about to provide based on
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: your interviews with redacted answers? yes. Question, did Redacted begin
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: working for Epstein in the early 90s? Answer, yes, he did. Question,
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: at that time, Redacted came to work for Epstein in
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach. Was Epstein dating Glenn Maxwell at that point? Answer, no,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: not at that time. Question, was it a few years
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: before Epstein began dating Maxwell after Redacted started working there? Answer, yes. Question, Ms. Redacted,
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I'm going to step out of the readback. It sounds
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: like the grand jurors are having difficulty hearing or are
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: having difficulty hearing me, the witness or both. Grand juror,
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: the witness, Ms. Redacted, so detective, I'm going to ask
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: you To please keep your voice up. Try to shout
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: into the microphone. Can you pull the microphone towards you?
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Lift it up and pull it all the way up
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: to you? Thank you. We left off reading at page 10.
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: Line 12. By Miss Redacted. Question. From what Redacted told you.
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: How did Redacted work? Change once Maxwell arrived on the scene? Answer.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Redacted described Epstein as being of more pleasant to work
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: with prior to Maxwell coming into the picture. Once she
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: came into the picture, he said things became more secretive.
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: He wasn't allowed to be in the room with guests,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: wasn't allowed to talk to them, associate with them. It
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: became a different environment. Misredacted. Detective, I'm going to ask
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: you to take the microphone and try to put it
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: right under where your mouth would be when you're reading
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: because you're looking down. You're moving your mouth away from
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: the microphone. Thank you. Picking back up at page 10,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: line 20. Question, you talked about some of the rules
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: that were placed changing. Were there any rules changes about
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: the eye contact once Maxwell began staying at the Palm
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: Beach house? Answer, yes. Redacted wasn't allowed to make eye
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: contact with Epstein and others. Misredacted, we're going to jump
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: now to page 11, line 6. Misredacted, shifting gears. I
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: want to talk to you about someone else that you
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: interviewed during this investigation. During the course of this investigation,
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: have you participated in interviews with an individual named Redacted? Answer, yes. Question.
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: So for these purposes, I'm going to refer to her
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: as redacted. Is that okay? Answer. Yes. Question. How many
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: times have you interviewed redacted? Answer. Approximately five times. Question.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: If you could please just page through the next two
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: slides in front of you. Are these photographs of redacted? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 12:24
  Speaker 1: Is it your understanding that these photographs depict redacted from
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: approximately age of 13 to approximately 17? Answer. Yes, it does. Question. Okay,
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: let's take a look at some of those photographs. I'm
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: going to publish the next slide. Is Redacted's date of
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: birth Redacted? Answer. Yes. Question. Are these two photographs of Redacted? Answer. Yes,
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: they are. Question. If you could turn to the second
• 12:47
  Speaker 1: slide of photographs, are these also photographs of Redacted? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Based on your participation in this investigation and your interviews
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: with Redacted, where was she living when she was approximately
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: 14 years old? Answer. Yes. She was living in Palm Beach, Florida. Question.
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: Who was she living with when she was 14? Answer.
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: Her mother and siblings. Question. What was her whole life
• 13:11
  Speaker 1: like at that point? Answer. At the time, her father
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: had passed away the year prior, so the family was
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: struggling financially and having some difficulties. Question. What did her
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: father do before he passed away? What was his profession? Answer.
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: He was involved in redacted and redacted. Question. Was redacted
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: involved in redacted? Answer. Yes, she was. Question. Were her siblings? Answer, yes. Question,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: what kind of redacted were they involved in? Answer, singing,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: she was a singer. Question, like, what kind of singer? Answer, opera.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: All right, folks, we're going to wrap up the first
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: episode right here, and in the next episode, we're going
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off. All of the
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: information that goes with this episode can be found in
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: the description box. What's up, everyone, and welcome to another
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: to pick up where we left off, With the NYPD
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: detective and the Glenn Maxwell grand jury testimony. Question. In
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: the summer of 1994, how old was Redacted? Answer. She
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: was 13 going on 14. Question. You testified earlier that
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: her birthday was in Redacted. So did she turn 14
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: in Redacted? Answer. Yes. Question. What did she do that summer? Answer.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: She attended an arts camp at Interlochen Center for the Arts. Question.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: And is Interlochen Summer Arts Program located in Michigan? Answer, yes. Question,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: did Redacted meet Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell that summer? Answer, yes,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: she did. Question, did she meet them at the summer camp? Answer, yes. Question,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: what did she tell you about that? Answer, she said
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: that she was sitting at a picnic table with friends
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: when Epstein and Maxwell walked by. They stopped to talk
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: to her, engage her in conversation, asked her if she
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: liked her classes, her teacher's. During that conversation, she found
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: out that she was also from Palm Beach and that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: he said he gives scholarships to students. Question, how did
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: they leave the conversation? Was there any contact information exchanged? Answer,
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: they asked for a redacted's phone number. Question, as part
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: of your investigation, have you attempted to gather records to
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: corroborate that redacted, Maxwell, and Epstein were all at the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: summer camp that summer? Answer, yes. Question, if you could
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: turn to the next slide, please. Have you obtained records
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: from Interlochen for the summer of 1994? Answer, yes. Question,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: and what are we looking at on this slide? Answer,
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: this shows who some of the individuals that were there
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: were present for that camp in 94. On here is redacted, redacted,
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: and redacted. Question, and have you investigated whether Maxwell and
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Epstein were located also at Interlochen that summer of 94
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: as redacted described? Answer, yes. Question, based on your review
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: of records from Interlochen? What is your understanding of Epstein's
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: relationship with Interlochen? Answer, my understanding was that he was
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: a donor to the school. Question, did he make any
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: substantial donations? Answer, yes he did. Question, did he donate
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: a lodge to the camp in the summer of 94? Answer,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: yes he did. Question, did he have a long-standing relationship
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: as a donor to Interlochen? Answer, yes. Question, turning to
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: the next slide, is this an excerpt of a letter
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: from From Interlochen to Epstein? Answer, yes it is. And
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: does this letter thank Epstein for donating a scholarship lodge? Answer, yes. Question,
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: does it invite Epstein to visit in August of 94? Answer, yes. Question,
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: in 1994, did Jeffrey Epstein have a private jet? Answer,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: yes he did. Question, have you obtained the flight logs
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: for that jet? Answer, yes. Question, do those logs include
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: passenger lists? And the airport code for the airports the
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: plane flew into and out of? Answer, yes. Question, turning
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: to the next slide, is this a page of the
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: flight logs that you reviewed? Answer, yes. Question, and on
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: this excerpt of the flight logs, where the red arrow is,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: is that a log entry showing an August 18, 1994
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: flight to an airport with the airport code TBC? Answer, yes. Question,
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: is TBC the airport code for Cherry Capital Airport in
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: Traverse City, Michigan? Answer, yes it is. Question, about how
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: far is it from the airport to Interlochen by car? Answer,
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: about 25 minutes, give or take. Question, and who are
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: listed passengers on this flight? Answer, Jeffrey Epstein, redacted, PH,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: and redacted, PH. Question, turning to the next slide, is
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: it the same excerpt with just a different arrow? Answer, yes. Question, okay,
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: so a few lines down, is there a flight out
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: of Traverse City just two days later, on August 20th, 1994. Answer, yes. Question,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: and do the passengers listed in the flight out of
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: Traverse City include the initials GM? Answer, yes, they do. Question,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: are those Glenn Maxwell's initials? Answer, yes. Question, have you
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: obtained any records from Interlochen to indicate that Maxwell was
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: at Interlochen in 94? Answer, yes. Question, if we could
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: turn to the next slide, can you explain for the
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: grand jury what we're looking at on this slide? Answer.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: This was a letter from Interlochen explaining, addressed to Maxwell,
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: telling her that they had found an envelope in the
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: lodge that they had been staying. Question. All right. We
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: were talking a few minutes ago about how Redacted described
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: meeting Maxwell and Epstein at the summer camp, and you
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: testified that she provided them with her phone number. Did
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: Redacted explain to you whether or not she had any
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: contact with Epstein or Maxwell after she returned home to
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach? Answer. Yes. Question. When was the next time
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: that happened? Answer, shortly after. Answer, she was invited to
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: his house, so her and her mother went to visit
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: Epstein's house. Question, what did Redacted tell you about that
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: visit to Epstein's house with her mother? Answer, she said
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: it was, wait, can you rephrase that? Answer, of course.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Did Redacted go to the house by herself or with
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: her mother? Answer, with her mother. Question, okay. When they
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: went to the house, what did they do there? Answer,
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: they had tea. Question, Who was there when they had
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: tea at the house? Answer, Epstein and Maxwell. Question, what
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: did they discuss as they had tea? Question, they just
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: talked about her life and, you know, what she wanted
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: to do. Question, did Epstein make any offers? Answer, he
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: said that he gives scholarships. He likes to mentor people. Question,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: how did Redacted's mother react when Epstein said this? Answer,
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: she was happy for her daughter and oftentimes referred to
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: Epstein as Redacted's godfather. Question, after that occasion... When she
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: went over to the house thereafter, did Redacted subsequently begin
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: regularly spending time with Maxwell and Epstein at Epstein's house
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: in Palm Beach? Answer. Yes. Question. Did that start when
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: she was approximately age 14? Answer. Yes. Question. Did it
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: continue until she was about age 17? Answer. Yes, it did. Question,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and during those years, does she regularly go over to
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: Epstein's house in Palm Beach and spend time with Maxwell
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: and Epstein? Answer, yes. Question, what happened in the summer
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: of 97 when Redacted was 17, about to turn 18? Answer,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: she moved to New York City. Answer, and why did
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: she move to New York City? Answer, she wanted to
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: pursue a career in acting and modeling. Question, we'll talk
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: about that in a moment, but for now, I want
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: to focus on the years you talked about, in Palm Beach,
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: from the age of 14 to 17, when Redacted would
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: regularly go to Epstein's house. In the beginning, in the
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: first few months, when she went there, what kind of
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: things did she do when she would visit the house
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: when Maxwell and Epstein were there? Answer, they'd hang out
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: by the pool. He, they, would take her to the movies,
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: take her shopping. She described that behavior as grooming. Question,
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: when you say grooming, did she explain what she meant
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: by that? Answer, she meant that they were building a
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: relationship with her, giving her things, taking her places, and
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: then usually when the grooming happens, an offender will, once
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: they gain the trust, they will make their relationship turn sexual. Question,
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: now you testified just a moment ago that described to
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: you that you felt at this time period they were
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: grooming her, is that right? Answer, yes. Question, is that
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: something that she realized at the time when she was
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: 14 or 15? Or is that something that she's described
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: to you now? Answer, something she's described now. She didn't
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: realize it at the time. Question, so we'll talk a
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: little bit more about grooming in a moment. But just
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: to give context, are you familiar with the term grooming
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: based on your experience investigating crimes involving sexual exploitation of minors? Answer, yes. Question,
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: generally speaking, you were touching on this a moment ago,
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: but if you could just explain it in full. What
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: is grooming? Answer, grooming is when someone builds a relationship
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: with a child. They will find a vulnerability or a
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: need and then work on gaining that child's trust, and
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: then oftentimes gaining a parent's trust. Once they have that trust,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: they show it in ways that they care about them,
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: like giving them gifts and promises, and then once that's established,
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: they then turn the relationship sexual, oftentimes making sexual comments
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: and normalizing behavior. Question, now during these visits that you've
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: been describing that Redacted told you about, did Redacted say
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: whether Epstein ever gave her anything? Answer, yes she did. Question,
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: what did he give her? Answer, he gave her cash.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Sometimes he'd tell her to give her cash to her
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: mom because he knew they needed it. He paid for
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: her voice lessons as well. Question, now you are describing
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: how Redacted has characterized these visits now, but based on
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: your conversations with her at the time, did she feel
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: that these visits were strange at all? Answer, she thought
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: they were strange, but Maxwell normalized it for her. She
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: was like a cool older sister and made comments like
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: this is what grownups do. Question, you use the phrase cool,
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: older sister. Is that the phrase that redacted used to
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: describe how she felt about Maxwell at the time and
• 23:11
  Speaker 1: that Maxwell was like? Answer, yes, those are her words. Question,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: did there come a time, these visits, when redacted saw
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: Maxwell topless by the pool? Answer, yes. Question, what did
• 23:24
  Speaker 1: she tell you about that? Answer, she was a little
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: taken aback, but Maxwell just acted normal. Question, did redacted
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: tell you about an incident several months into the arrangement,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: when she was alone with Epstein in the pool house? Answer, yes. Question,
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: and when they were alone together, did Epstein ask Redacted
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: what she wanted to do with her life? Answer, he did. Question,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: what did she say? Answer, she said she wanted to
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: be an actress and a model. Question, how did Epstein respond? Answer,
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: he told her that he was best friends with the
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: owner of Victoria's Secret. Told her that she would have
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: to have photographs taken. and that she had to be
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: comfortable in her underwear and not to be a prude.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: And she was asked what she meant by that. He
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: pulled her into his lap and masturbated. Question, what was
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: her reaction? Answer, she felt paralyzed. She froze. Question, after
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: this incident, did Redacted's encounters with Epstein begin to include
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: sexual contact? Answer, yes. Question, over time, did the sexual
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: abuse escalate? Answer, it did. Question, from what she's described
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: to you, did the abuse include Epstein digitally penetrating Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: did it include Epstein using a vibrator on her? Answer, yes. Question,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: did she describe to you that there were times when
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: Epstein would direct Redacted to massage him while he masturbated? Answer, yes. Question,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: did Redacted explain to you what her memories are like
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: of the abuse? Answer, yes. Question, what did she say
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: about that? Answer, she said that it happens so often
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: that it all kind of, it all runs together for her,
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: that it's hard to separate out some of the different
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: instances of abuse. All right, we're going to wrap up
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: right here. And in the next episode, we're going to
• 25:08
  Speaker 1: pick up where we left off. All of the information
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: that goes with this episode can be found in the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: description box. What's up, everyone? And welcome to another episode
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to
• 25:20
  Speaker 1: pick up where we left off with the NYPD detective,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: giving testimony to the grand jury about Ghislaine Maxwell. Question.
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: You were describing how Redacted explained to you that the
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: abuse began. Did that occur based on what Redacted told
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: you within the first year after she met Epstein and Maxwell? Answer. Yes. Question. Now,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: did Redacted also describe to you think that once the
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: abuse started, Epstein would also bring her into his massage
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: room in his house? Answer. Yes. Question. And were there
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: times Where he did this, where there were other women present,
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: including Maxwell? Answer, yes. Question, was redacted abused during those episodes? Answer, yes,
• 26:04
  Speaker 1: she was. And you notice they say other women besides
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: Maxwell and including Maxwell? Well, that's interesting. How about arresting
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: some of those women too? Question, during these group encounters,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: what were redacted and the adult women wearing? Answer, they
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: were usually just wearing their underwear. Question, Once they were
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: all in the massage room, how would these episodes generally start? Answer,
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: they would generally start with one of the girls massaging Epstein.
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: Redacted was usually massaging his feet. Maxwell was kind of
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: teasing the other girls. She'd grab the girl's breasts and
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: she would direct the girls on what to do. Question,
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: when these episodes would start in general, was Epstein generally
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: lying face down on the massage table? Answer, yes. Question,
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: what would happen as things progressed generally speaking? from what
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: she described to you? Answer. When Epstein would decide he
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: was kind of done with the regular massage, he would
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: turn over on his back and he'd grab whichever girl
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: he wanted to either touch him or whatever girl he
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: wanted to touch. Question. Did these episodes include sex acts
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: that over time in various instances included Epstein masturbating, Epstein
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: receiving oral sex, and Epstein engaging in intercourse? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: You are describing for a moment What redacted told you
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: about Maxwell's role during these group encounters? Would Maxwell sometimes
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: guide the women and give instructions about what to do? Answer, yes,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: she would. Question, what would a redacted typically do during
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: these episodes? Answer, she would try not to look at
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: Maxwell because she gave off that sister vibe, so it
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: felt weird for her. She would try to be invisible
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: in the room so they would ignore her as much
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: as possible. Question, in the beginning, when redacted's approximately 14
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: or 15, Would she generally begin by just massaging Epstein's feet? Answer, yes. Question,
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: is that something that she was told to do? Answer, yes. Question,
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: did she, you mentioned that she tried to be invisible.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Was I believe that was your testimony? Answer, yes. Question,
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: and over time, has she described to you that over
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: time she believed she became more involved in the sexual
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: activity which varied in each encounter? Answer, yes. Question, were
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: there times? Let me rephrase that. You touched on this
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: for a moment, but just to be clear, had it
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: redacted described Maxwell's attitude during these incidents? Answer, it was
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: very casual. She acted like this was normal. She gave
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: off that vibe to her, and yeah. Question, did that
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: make her feel more comfortable with what was happening? Answer,
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: it did. Question, was redacted sometimes fully nude during the episodes? Answer, yes. Question,
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: And during these episodes, did the abuse include Epstein touching
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: Redacted's breasts? Answer, yes. Question, did it include directing Redacted
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: to touch Epstein's genitals? Answer, yes. Question, beginning when Redacted's
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: approximately 14, does she begin to travel with Epstein and
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: Maxwell to New York City on occasion? Answer, yes, she did. Question,
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: was that to the property you testified about earlier, the
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: townhouse on the Upper East Side? Answer, yes. Question, when
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Redacted traveled to the New York City, did she stay
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: in Epstein's townhouse in New York City? Answer, yes, she did. Question,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: did she recall that Maxwell and Epstein took her shopping
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: on one of her early trips to New York City? Answer, yes.
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: Did she remember them buying her anything? Answer, she recalled
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: them buying her white cotton underwear. Her description was that
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: they were like little girls' underwear. Question, from ages 14
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: to 17, did Epstein ask redacted to periodically fly to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: New York for a weekend or weekends at the townhouse
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: in New York? Answer, I'm sorry, say that again. Question,
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: you testified that she began traveling to New York City
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: at age 14. Did she then periodically travel to New
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: York City in a similar manner? From ages 14 to 17? Answer, yes. Question,
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: were there times when she traveled on those trips when
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: she flew on Epstein's private jet? Answer, yes. Question, did
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: she also fly sometimes commercially? Answer, yes, she did. Question,
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: was Maxwell sometimes present on the trips to New York? Answer, yes. Question,
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: you testified earlier that Redacted was sexually abused in Palm Beach.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: Did she describe to you that she was also sexually
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: abused on the trips to New York? Answer. Yes, she did. Question.
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: Did Maxwell encourage redacted to go on these trips? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: What is redacted? What did redacted tell you about her
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: memory of how these trips were arranged? Answer. She recalled
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: that Maxwell was usually the one to schedule her flights.
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: If she was flying commercially, she would schedule the flight,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: sometimes calling her mother to do the scheduling. Question. Was
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: that the general impression of how they were arranged? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: In addition to the trips to New York City you
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: just described, did Redacted also remember traveling at least once
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: in Epstein's ranch in New Mexico? Answer, yes she did. Question,
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: does she remember whether or not she was sexually abused
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: in New Mexico? Answer, she couldn't recall. Question in general,
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: how would Redacted get to the airport in Florida when
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: she would fly on Epstein's jet? What did she describe
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to you? Answer, usually a driver. One of Epstein's drivers
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: would pick her up from her house. And take her
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: to the airport. Question. Now, you testified earlier that you
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: reviewed flight records from Epstein's private jet. Is that correct? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: And have you reviewed records from the 90s to see
• 31:42
  Speaker 1: whether there's a person name redacted on the records? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: Turning to the next slide. Is this an excerpt from
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: those records? Answer. Yes, it is. Question. And does the
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: red arrow point to November 11th, 1996 flight? Answer, yes,
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: it does. Question, and does this say, does this flight
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: log reflect that it was a flight from Palm Beach
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: to Teterboro, New Jersey? Answer, yes. Question, is there a
• 32:09
  Speaker 1: private airfield in Teterboro, New Jersey? Answer, yes, there is. Question,
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: what's it called? Answer, Teterboro Airport. Question, are the passengers
• 32:18
  Speaker 1: listed on this entry jet? Answer, yes. Question, do the
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: entries also include redacted plus friend Jeff Shamps? PH, family, redacted, redacted, redacted,
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: and redacted? Answer, yes. Question, was redacted based on your
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: awareness of redacted's date of birth and the date of
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: this flight was redacted 16? The date of this flight? Answer, yes,
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: she was. Question, turning to the next slide. You testified
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: earlier about Teterboro Airport. What are we looking at on
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: this slide? Answer, this is direction from Teterboro Airport to
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: Epstein's residence here in Manhattan. Question, so based on your
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: review of this map, if someone were to fly into
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: Teterboro and travel to New York City, would the most
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: natural route to be travel to Teterboro Airport and crossing
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: into New York through Manhattan? Answer, yes. Question, turning to
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: the next slide. This is also an excerpt from the
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: flight records that you reviewed. Answer, yes, it is. Question,
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: and does this show a May 9th, 1997 flight from
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: Teterboro to Santa Fe, New Mexico? Answer, yes it does. Question,
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: and are the passengers listed on this flight? J-E-G-M and redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: based on your knowledge of redacted's birth date and the
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: date of this flight, would redacted have been 16 on
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: the date of this flight? Answer, yes she would have been. Question,
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: turning to the next flight slide, is this also an
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: excerpt from the flight records? Answer, yes. Question, and does
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: the red arrow point to a flight entry? On May 3rd, 1998. Answer. Yes,
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: it does. Question. Based on the airport codes, did this
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: reflect that there is a flight on that date from
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach, Florida to Teterboro, New Jersey? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: And are the passengers listed on this log? J-E-G-M-E-T. Redacted. Glenn. Redacted. Redacted. Manny. Redacted. Answer. Yes. Question.
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: Based on your knowledge of Redacted's birthday... and the date
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: of this flight would have been 17 on this date? Answer, yes. Question,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: am I correct that you testified earlier that in addition
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: to sometimes flying on Epstein's private jet, she also traveled
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: on commercial airlines? Is that right? Answer, yes, it is. Question,
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: based on your review of these flight logs, does every
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: flight entry list the name of every single passenger, or
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: are there some times when a passenger is noted female? Answer,
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: there's times where passengers are just noted female. Question, I'm
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: going to talk to you about two examples of that.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: Turning ahead two slides, looking at slide 18, does this
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: reflect a January 3rd, 1995 flight where the flight log
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: says JE, two females? Answer, yes it does. Question, and
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: do the two entries below also just list females next
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: to the initials JE? Answer, yes they do. Question, Turning
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: to the next slide, slide 19. Is this another example
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: of an entry like that, focusing on the entry on
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: February 12th, 1995? Answer, yes. Question, does that entry also
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: say female? Answer, yes it does. Question, now you testified
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: that Redacted sometimes flew on commercial airlines, and that the
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: arrangements for her travel were made for her to fly
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: commercially for these trips, is that right? Answer, yes. Question,
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: have you been able to obtain commercial flight records? Answer,
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: we tried. We were not able to obtain those records. Question,
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: why is that? The airlines don't keep records past a
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: certain year. Question, does Redacted recall group sexualized messages involving
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: Epstein and Maxwell in both the New York and Florida residence?
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: During the time period we've been talking about? Answer, yes. Question,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: you testified earlier about the time that Maxwell and Epstein
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: would spend together and the activities that they were involved in.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: During this time period, did Redacted have occasions to talk
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: with Maxwell? Answer, I'm sorry, can you ask the question again? Question,
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: during the beginning when she was 14, when she was
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: spending time with Epstein and Maxwell, and through the years,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: did Redacted often have conversations with Maxwell about her life? Answer, yes. Question,
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: did they talk about that often? Answer, they did. Question,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: did Maxwell ask about her family, her classes, and other
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: aspects of her life? Answer, yes, she did. Question, did
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: she go to school there in New York City her
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: senior year? Answer, yes, she did. Question, what school did
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: she go to? She went to Redacted. Question, what is
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: the Redacted? Answer, they cater to individuals who want to
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: pursue a career in the arts. Question, have you reviewed
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: records from the Redacted? Answer, yes. All right, we're going
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: to wrap up right here. And in the next episode,
• 37:12
  Speaker 1: we're going to pick up where we left off. All
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: of the information that goes with this episode can be found...
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: in the description box. What's up everyone and welcome to
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: another episode of the Epstein Chronicles. In this episode we're
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: going to pick up where we left off with the
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: testimony given by the NYPD detective to the Maxwell Grand
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: Jury in New York. And when it comes to the
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: Grand Jury testimony, a lot of it's going to sound
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: repetitive and that's the whole entire point. And that's why
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: people were warning that the Grand Jury material wasn't going
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: to really reveal the all that much. But I think
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: it's important that the record is complete. So let's dive
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: back in. Question. From what Redacted told you, did Maxwell
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: encourage Redacted to accept Epstein's financial help? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: When Redacted moved to New York City, who was she
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: living with? Answer. She lived with her mother and her
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: brother in Redacted's apartment. Question. Did Epstein help pay for
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: her rent? Answer. Yes, he did. Question. During that year,
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: her senior year in high school, When she was in
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: New York City, did Redacted remain in contact with Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 38:20
  Speaker 1: what was the nature of their contact like during that
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: time period? Answer, during this time, he was still sexually
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: abusing her. Question, did that continue to occur at his
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: townhouse in Manhattan that year? Answer, yes it did. Question,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: what happened at the end of her senior year of
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: high school? Answer, she moved to Los Angeles to pursue
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: a career in acting. Question, did she get a job
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: as an actress when she turned 18? Answer, she did. Answer,
• 38:47
  Speaker 1: or question, has Redacted lived in LA and worked as
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: an actress on television ever since then? Answer, yes. Question,
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: after she moved to Los Angeles, did she continue being
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: in touch with Epstein? Answer, for a short period of time. Question,
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: did she ultimately break contact with him? Answer, yes she did. Question,
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: is Redacted currently pursuing a civil lawsuit? Against Maxwell and
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: Epstein's estate? Answer, yes. Question, have you talked with Redacted
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: about whether, when she was a teenage girl, and all
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: of this stuff was happening, whether she told anyone that
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: she was being sexually abused? Answer, yes. She said she
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: didn't tell anyone. She felt like she couldn't. She, the,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: nothing was. was talked about outside of that room, so
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: it made it so that she couldn't talk about it.
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: And then she also, her mother, is a Middle Easterner,
• 39:38
  Speaker 1: and her mother raised that woman, are supposed to do
• 39:40
  Speaker 1: as they're told, even if someone's beating you. When she
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: was 13 and her father passed, she went to a
• 39:46
  Speaker 1: guidance counselor at school to talk about it, and her
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: mother found out about it and smacked her. She felt
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: like she couldn't talk about it to anyone. Question. Did
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: Redacted's mother encourage her to accept Epstein's financial assistance? Answer. Yes,
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: she did. Question. Have you become aware that in 2005,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: police officers from Palm Beach Police Department executed a search
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: warrant at Epstein's house at El Brío Way address in
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Palm Beach? Answer. Yes. Question. Have you reviewed some of
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: the materials seized during the search? Answer. Yes. Question. Did
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: they find massage tables and sex toys? Answer. Yes, they did. Question.
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: Did they find any photographs of Redacted? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: Was one of the photographs signed by Redacted? Answer. Yes,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: it was. Question. Did it say Redacted? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: During your interview with Redacted, did Redacted tell you how
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: she felt about Epstein and Maxwell in the 90s when
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: she was a young girl? Answer. She did. She expressed
• 40:44
  Speaker 1: that she felt like they loved her. She felt like
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: they were her family, that they supported her, and that
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: they felt like she was made to feel like that
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: she was needed to be grateful to them. Question, okay,
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: did she tell you that she felt like they were
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: trying to help her? Answer, yes. Question, have you talked
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: with Redacted about how she feels about this now? Answer, yes. Question,
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: what was Redacted's demeanor like when she described to you
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: what Epstein and Maxwell had done to her? Answer, she
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: was upset. She recognized that now. It's affected her life
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: to a great degree. She's struggled in relationships with opening
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: up to people and trusting people, both personal and professional relationships.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: Did she tell you that she struggled to tell anyone
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: about what happened to her for most of her adulthood? Answer, yes. Question,
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: when was the first time that you interviewed Redacted? Answer,
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: last fall. Question, was that the first time that she
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: ever reported this to law enforcement? Answer, yes it was. Question,
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: now you testified earlier about your interview with Redacted, who
• 41:50
  Speaker 1: worked at Epstein's Palm Beach house. Did he remember a
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: girl named Redacted coming to the house during that time? Answer,
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: yes he did. Question, did he recall Redacted, Maxwell, and
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: Epstein meeting in the Palm Beach house together? Answer, yes. Question,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: what was his understanding of why Redacted was there? Answer,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: he thought that Epstein was helping her. That's what Epstein
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: had told him. And Redacted had told him that Epstein
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: was helping her. Question, did he ever observe Epstein interacting
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: with her physically? Answer, yes. Question, what did he see? Answer,
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: he saw Epstein kiss Redacted's cheek and pat her on
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: the bottom. Question, did he have any knowledge about what
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: was happening with Epstein or Maxwell when he wasn't present? Answer,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: he didn't. Question, did Redacted ever recall picking up Redacted
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: from the house? Answer, yes. Question, and when he would
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: pick her up from her house, would he then bring
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: her back to the Palm Beach house? Answer, yes. Question,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: Did he remember who, in general, would tell him to
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: pick her up from the house? Answer. Maxwell would be
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: the one to tell him to pick her up. Question.
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: Did he recall ever driving redacted to the movies? Answer. Yes. Question.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: What did he tell you about that? Answer. That would
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: usually be Epstein, Maxwell, and redacted. They would go to
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: the movies and it would usually be late at night. Question.
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: Did he tell you about what his memory was? About
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: how old redacted was? Answer. He said she was young.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: and that he knew that because he picked her up
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: from school, and that he knew she was too young
• 43:19
  Speaker 1: to drive. Question, switching gears. I want to talk to
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: you about a different aspect of your interview with Redacted
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: based on what he told about his job duties. Were
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: there ever times where he would have to clean Epstein's
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: massage room? Answer, yes. Question, what did he tell you
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: about that? Answer, he said that he found sex toys
• 43:39
  Speaker 1: in the massage room, and that he had to wash
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: them afterwards. Question, aside from those experiences, was he aware
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: if there was any sex toys in the house? Answer, yes.
• 43:50
  Speaker 1: There was a basket of sex toys that were kept
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: in Maxwell's closet. Question, did Redacted stop working for Epstein
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: in approximately 2002? Answer, yes. Question, was he told he
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: was being replaced? Answer, yes. Question, and was he generally
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: aware that the person replaced him with was much younger? Answer, yes. Question,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: Did Redacted tell you that a few months after he
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: left working for Epstein, he became suicidal because of the
• 44:17
  Speaker 1: issues in his marriage? Answer, yes. Question, did he tell
• 44:21
  Speaker 1: you that he went to Epstein's house and tried to
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: take Epstein's gun? Answer, yes, he did. Question, did he
• 44:26
  Speaker 1: tell you that it's worth several thousand dollars? Answer, yes. Question,
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: did Epstein discover this and confront him about it? Answer, yes,
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: he did. Question, did Redacted admit to Epstein and the
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: police what he had done? Answer, yes. Question, did Epstein
• 44:42
  Speaker 1: also tell the police his gun was missing? Answer, yes. Question,
• 44:46
  Speaker 1: were there any charges filed? Answer, no. Question, was he
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: ever arrested? Answer, I don't believe so. Question, and did
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: Epstein pursue any charges about the incident? Answer, no, he
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: didn't pursue anything. Question, have you interviewed one of Epstein's
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: former pilots? Answer, yes. Question, is that pilot named David Rogers? Answer, yes. Question,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: was he one of the pilots for Epstein's private jet?
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: In the 1990s? Answer, yes. Question, did he remember a
• 45:14
  Speaker 1: redacted traveling on the jet in the 90s? Answer, he
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: remembered her traveling, but he didn't remember specifics. Question, so
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: just to be clear, is your testimony that he didn't
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: remember the specific dates of the flights, but he remembered
• 45:28
  Speaker 1: her traveling on the jet during the 90s? Answer, yes. Question,
• 45:33
  Speaker 1: And did he remember redacted specifically as a person who traveled? Answer, yes. Question,
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: did you discuss with him the flight records that we
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: talked about earlier that lists a person name redacted as
• 45:44
  Speaker 1: a passenger? Answer, yes. Question, did he have a specific
• 45:48
  Speaker 1: memory of those exact flights? Answer, no. Question, but he
• 45:52
  Speaker 1: was aware of any other redacted flying on the jet
• 45:56
  Speaker 1: besides redacted in the 90s? Answer, no. No other redacted
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: at that time. Question, earlier when we were looking at
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Interlochen attendance records for the summer of 94, you noted
• 46:07
  Speaker 1: that Redacted was one of the names on the record.
• 46:09
  Speaker 1: Is that right? Answer, yes. Question, is that Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 46:15
  Speaker 1: have you interviewed Redacted? Answer, yes, I have. Question, did
• 46:19
  Speaker 1: he tell you that he remembered Redacted talking that summer
• 46:24
  Speaker 1: at the camp about having met Jeffrey Epstein? Answer, yes. Question,
• 46:27
  Speaker 1: did he tell you that he remembered Redacted going over
• 46:30
  Speaker 1: to Epstein's house in Palm Beach when they were in
• 46:32
  Speaker 1: high school? Answer, yes. Question, did he remember that Redacted
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: would often talk about spending time with Maxwell and Epstein
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: during this time? Answer, yes. Question, did he remember Redacted
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: telling him, they, when, they were in high school, about
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: at least one trip to New York City that she
• 46:50
  Speaker 1: took with Epstein? Answer, yes. Question, did he remember Redacted
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: describing Epstein's townhouse in Manhattan? Answer, yes. Question, And does
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: he remember Redacted talking often about Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer, yes. Question,
• 47:05
  Speaker 1: now based on your interview with Redacted, did he tell
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: you whether he knew back then, when they were in
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: high school, whether Redacted was being sexually abused by Epstein? Answer,
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: he didn't know back then. Question, did Redacted ever meet
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: Ghislaine Maxwell? Answer, yes he did. Question, what did he
• 47:22
  Speaker 1: remember about that? Answer, he remembered Epstein, Maxwell, and Redacted
• 47:26
  Speaker 1: being near a movie theater. and he was approximately 16
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: at the time, and Redacted would have been 15 and
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: just a little bit of the interaction they had. And
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: then after that, Redacted had told him that Maxwell had
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: said something to the effect of, I could teach Redacted
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: a thing or two. Question, is that something that he
• 47:44
  Speaker 1: remembers Redacted telling him back then that Maxwell had said? Answer, yes. Question,
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: during the course of this investigation, have you participated in
• 47:53
  Speaker 1: any interview with an individual named Redacted? Answer, yes. Question,
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: so for today's purposes, I'm just going to refer to
• 48:01
  Speaker 1: her as redacted. How many times have you referred to
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: verbatim redacted? Answer, approximately twice. Ms. Redacted, excuse me? Question,
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: how many times have you interviewed redacted? Answer, approximately twice. Question,
• 48:16
  Speaker 1: now does redacted know redacted? Have they ever met before
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: as far as you know? Answer, as far as I know, no. Question,
• 48:23
  Speaker 1: turning to the next slide. Are these photographs of redacted
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: when she was in high school? Answer, yes. Question, and
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: is her birth date redacted? Answer, yes. Question, when redacted
• 48:34
  Speaker 1: was approximately 16 and a junior in high school, where
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: was she living? Answer, she was living in redacted with
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: her mother. Question, does she have any siblings? Answer, an
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: older sister. Question, what does her sister do? Answer, her
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: older sister lived, worked for Epstein. Question, where did she
• 48:52
  Speaker 1: work for Epstein? Answer, here in New York. Question, did
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: there come a time in approximately December 1995 when Redacted
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: had a phone conversation with her sister about traveling to
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: New York City? Answer, yes. Question, what did they discuss? Answer,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: they discussed her coming to New York and meeting Epstein. Question,
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: what did her sister tell her about why she should
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: meet Epstein? Answer, she said that she could help with
• 49:17
  Speaker 1: her college. Question, and did she say, does the sister say,
• 49:22
  Speaker 1: whether the sister wanted her to meet Epstein, or did
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: she say whether Epstein wanted to meet the sister? Answer,
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Epstein wanted to meet the sister. Now, let me pause here.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: You testified that this happened in approximately December of 95.
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: Just for context, the years that we're talking about with
• 49:39
  Speaker 1: Redacted was that 94 through 97? Answer, yes. Question, so
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: is this approximately the same time period while what you
• 49:49
  Speaker 1: described Redacted telling you what happened? Answer, yes. All right, folks,
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: we're going to wrap up right here. And in the
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: next episode, dealing with the topic we're going to pick
• 49:57
  Speaker 1: up where we left off. All of the information that
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: goes with this episode can be found in the description box.