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What Should I Buy? - Your first Classic or Collector Vehicle · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Our panel of brake fixed petrolheads are back for another
• 0:03
  rousing what should I buy debate.
• 0:05
  Using unique shopping criteria, they are challenged to find our first time
• 0:08
  collector the best vehicle that will make their friends go, Where'd you get that?
• 0:13
  Or what the hell is wrong with you?
• 0:15
  At the next Cars and Coffee.
• 0:19
  We get ideas and suggestions for show topics all the time.
• 0:22
  And recently someone asked us to revisit the idea of purchasing your first
• 0:26
  classic car, never looking to turn down an opportunity for a hearty debate.
• 0:30
  We said challenge accepted.
• 0:32
  And you know what that means, listeners.
• 0:34
  It's time for another fan favorite What Should I Buy episode.
• 0:37
  That's right, Brad.
• 0:38
  And as our listeners know, all What Should I Buys have shopping criteria.
• 0:43
  But in this case, it unravels very quickly when you take into
• 0:46
  consideration all the different genres and eras of collector cars.
• 0:51
  Are we talking pre war, post war, muscle car, the malaise
• 0:54
  era, or something more modern?
• 0:56
  So this begs the question, what exactly is a collector card?
• 1:00
  And with the help of our esteemed panel of guests tonight, we think
• 1:04
  we can solve this puzzle and come up with some great suggestions for
• 1:07
  the first time collector car buyer.
• 1:09
  All of our guests tonight have been on the show before and have
• 1:12
  experience in the classic car prospecting and investor car markets.
• 1:16
  So please join me in welcoming back to break fix our panel
• 1:19
  of petrolhead juggernauts.
• 1:20
  Mark Schenk from the 90s What Should I Buy episode, Don Wieberg from
• 1:24
  Garage Style Magazine, Rob Parr from Collector Car Guide, and Chris
• 1:28
  Bright from Collector Part Exchange.
• 1:30
  Hey guys, welcome back to the show.
• 1:33
  Thanks, we're honored that you all even won a comeback.
• 1:39
  Well, as everybody knows, the what should I buys are a fan favorite.
• 1:43
  They're a little bit more of a happy hour style, a little bit more casual.
• 1:46
  So tonight's big debate is the first time classic car buyer.
• 1:50
  So who wants to take a stab at defining what a classic car is now in the intro,
• 1:56
  we said classic car and collector car.
• 1:58
  Are we using these terms interchangeably?
• 2:01
  Because they're different.
• 2:02
  Are they?
• 2:03
  If you read Jalopnik, they come out with articles all the time.
• 2:06
  These are the next future collector's cars.
• 2:08
  Just because it's a classic car doesn't make it a collector car.
• 2:11
  And just because it's a collector car doesn't make it a classic.
• 2:13
  My business is named Collector Part Exchange.
• 2:16
  We didn't name it Classic Part Exchange because we wanted to keep
• 2:19
  the door open for modern classics.
• 2:22
  People like are talking about modern Ferraris or whatever, you know, we
• 2:27
  wanted to have that be open to them.
• 2:29
  But I think technically classic car is 1989 and before is what I, I believe it's.
• 2:35
  Sounds like a middle aged man definition.
• 2:37
  Exactly.
• 2:37
  I'm mansplaining right now.
• 2:41
  Would you please shut up, Mark?
• 2:43
  Do classic cars go along the way of classic rock?
• 2:47
  Like if we listen to a classic rock station, now we hear Nirvana.
• 2:50
  Does that mean anything from the nineties is considered a classic?
• 2:53
  Hell yeah.
• 2:54
  I mean, in Maryland, it's a 20 years and you get a, you can get a classic car tag.
• 2:58
  Yeah.
• 2:59
  Is that the standard across the, across the US?
• 3:01
  So, so Brad, actually, let me flip this around on you and say,
• 3:04
  I'll give you the exception for the future classic near term.
• 3:08
  What's a car that's 20 years or older.
• 3:11
  That's a collector car.
• 3:12
  That isn't a classic.
• 3:13
  All right.
• 3:14
  Is it, is a Gremlin a classic?
• 3:17
  Right up there with the HHR and the PT Cruiser, but let's let Don weigh in.
• 3:22
  Yeah, I I'm listening to all of you and and I all of you
• 3:25
  are hugely well qualified.
• 3:27
  And you know, I'm just an old fart who has an idea here.
• 3:31
  You know, one thing that has always upset me when you look at magazines, you look
• 3:35
  at podcasts, you look at television shows.
• 3:37
  And all of a sudden, let's talk about Oh my god, the instant collector,
• 3:41
  the Aston Martin something.
• 3:42
  Oh my god, the instant collector, the Ferrari something or other.
• 3:45
  Well, what year is that Ferrari something?
• 3:47
  Oh, it's a 2022.
• 3:49
  But it's an instant collector.
• 3:50
  Wait a minute.
• 3:52
  You know, it's like saying the Viper.
• 3:53
  I remember reading about that years ago, the Viper.
• 3:55
  Oh, this is an instant collector's item.
• 3:57
  Well, yeah, it's going to be limited production.
• 4:00
  It's going to be high performance.
• 4:01
  It's going to be very expensive.
• 4:03
  Nobody's going to be able to have this car, but what makes a
• 4:05
  five liter GT a collector car?
• 4:07
  Oh, nothing.
• 4:08
  Nothing.
• 4:08
  That's not a collector car until today.
• 4:11
  You ask anybody, Hey, I got a 93 GT triple black chrome ponies five
• 4:16
  speed in the garage, 25, 000 miles.
• 4:19
  Oh my God, I gotta have that car.
• 4:21
  Well, wait, wait, wait.
• 4:22
  You were the same guy that when the car was new and I bought it, you said
• 4:26
  this would not be a collector car.
• 4:28
  You know, Eric, you and I talked last time about DeLorean pretty extensively.
• 4:31
  And I think I told you, I've got a stack of magazines Each one with articles
• 4:37
  from the day with DeLorean in it.
• 4:40
  One of my favorite stories is in one of them, a young writer talks about
• 4:44
  what a piece of garbage, the DeLorean is that it'll never be worth anything.
• 4:48
  It's going to fall apart before it's worth anything.
• 4:50
  Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah.
• 4:52
  Fast forward 30 years.
• 4:54
  I have another magazine.
• 4:55
  Where the writers gushing over DeLorean and how different they were
• 4:59
  and stainless steel and gullwing doors and the plastic underbelly
• 5:03
  and all this other wonderful stuff.
• 5:04
  And it's such a great car.
• 5:06
  It's an absolute collector car.
• 5:07
  You should buy it now while they're priced right.
• 5:10
  That was written by the same guy.
• 5:14
  Don't you think there's this like, cars are new and then they
• 5:17
  go into the valley of death.
• 5:18
  Even if we look back, there's even lots of Porsche 911s, like when they
• 5:23
  weren't that valuable, then all of a sudden they became like 250, 000 cars.
• 5:27
  Now they've come back down to earth, but it's like something goes away
• 5:31
  and then it starts becoming like Ferrari Tessarossas like five years
• 5:35
  ago, you'd get one for 40, 000.
• 5:37
  50, 000.
• 5:37
  They were not expensive cars.
• 5:38
  Now, they're expensive to own, but now they're back up over in 120, 140 range.
• 5:43
  And look at your Kuntosh's.
• 5:45
  Those cars have gone completely nuts.
• 5:47
  The 800, 000.
• 5:48
  It'll be a couple of years.
• 5:49
  That'd be a million dollar car, right?
• 5:51
  The residual value of the cocaine you'll find in a test for us.
• 5:56
  Just worth more than 40 grand.
• 5:58
  That's true.
• 5:58
  And they were all brought to you by DeLorean, the dealer of the year for 1982.
• 6:03
  You know, Mark, I had a little bit of time to actually think about your question.
• 6:06
  I had to do some mental math because you said 20 years older.
• 6:09
  That's 2002.
• 6:10
  How about the Ford Tempo, the Ford Escort, the Ford Taurus?
• 6:13
  Are those classics?
• 6:14
  Oh God, no.
• 6:16
  The Chevy Impala?
• 6:18
  yes.
• 6:18
  The Tempo, no.
• 6:19
  So, so, so, okay, so it's got a particular model.
• 6:21
  Uh, the Escort, if you actually got the, like the good one.
• 6:25
  You're talking about a particular model, the Ford Probe.
• 6:28
  I'm, I'm ragging on Ford a lot here because it's just popped into my head.
• 6:31
  Ford Probe is just great.
• 6:32
  The Volkswagen Passat is not a classic that's I'm sorry, the 2001 Volkswagen
• 6:37
  Passat is yeah, of course, it's a good okay, but it's a collector car.
• 6:41
  So wait, the 2000, it's not a collector car either you but that was that was my
• 6:44
  question was anything that's 20 years old that classic give me a car that's
• 6:50
  not a classic that is 20 years old.
• 6:52
  You didn't tell me these guys were married.
• 6:54
  And it's very undefined.
• 6:55
  But anything that's desirable is the collector car.
• 6:57
  I mean, if you want to Probe GT or something.
• 7:01
  V6 to the, whoever wants the car.
• 7:03
  That's a collector car.
• 7:04
  Right.
• 7:05
  I mean, that same guy has six of them because, you know, he needs the parts.
• 7:10
  Like the guy on this panel that I'm not going to name who has
• 7:13
  about 200 Mark fours and parts.
• 7:16
  It's going to be a collector car.
• 7:17
  One of these days.
• 7:18
  That's all I know.
• 7:19
  Yeah.
• 7:19
  Cause you're at least five collector cars now.
• 7:23
  Wait, wait, wait.
• 7:23
  Mark four.
• 7:24
  Volkswagen.
• 7:25
  the German Mark 4 or from Dearborn?
• 7:27
  No, not your Lincoln.
• 7:28
  We're talking about Volkswagen.
• 7:30
  Yeah.
• 7:30
  Okay.
• 7:30
  Not the Toyota Mark 4 either.
• 7:32
  So let me do Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 7:33
  The Toyota.
• 7:34
  Good.
• 7:34
  Very good.
• 7:35
  Building on what you were saying about the Tempo and the Probe, etc.
• 7:38
  I have a 79 Chevy Caprice.
• 7:40
  I inherited it back in 2002.
• 7:43
  Nobody gave a crap.
• 7:45
  I was the only one who cared about that car.
• 7:46
  It was mint condition, 40, 000 miles, two tone brown.
• 7:50
  My wife hates it.
• 7:51
  She still hates it to this day.
• 7:52
  Thanks.
• 7:53
  But here we are now 2022.
• 7:56
  And I got to tell you that car gets attention just as easily as the
• 7:59
  DeLorean, as the Mustang, as any of the others, it really commands a lot
• 8:03
  of attention and a lot of respect.
• 8:05
  Even though again, years ago, nobody gave that car anyway.
• 8:08
  It was like driving Rodney Dangerfield around.
• 8:10
  It was horrible.
• 8:11
  You look like a man that would have that car on 22 inch rims.
• 8:14
  Am I right?
• 8:15
  No, God, no, no, no, no.
• 8:19
  I think that was like the biggest burn I've ever heard.
• 8:22
  Let me do this.
• 8:25
  Let's wrap up this thought.
• 8:27
  I think it's very challenging to define what a classic or a collector car is.
• 8:32
  However, there is one staple guideline that we can fall back to, which is the
• 8:38
  official list of approved full classics.
• 8:42
  Thanks.
• 8:42
  from the Classic Car Club of America, which I happened to work
• 8:46
  with over the last couple of years.
• 8:47
  And I'll read it to you so we can separate a couple of hairs here.
• 8:50
  The Classic Car Club of America defines a full classic as a fine or distinctive
• 8:56
  automobile, American or foreign built produced between the years 1915 and 1948.
• 9:03
  Many factors come into play, but a classic was a high price.
• 9:07
  Top end vehicle when new and was built in limited quantities.
• 9:12
  That is their definition of a classic, which now we can say is
• 9:16
  distinctly different than something that would be a collector vehicle.
• 9:19
  I call bullshit on that.
• 9:21
  That's just
• 9:24
  who the hell is a member of the classic club of America?
• 9:27
  Gunther's not on here, is he?
• 9:31
  No, he was supposed to be, you know, again, Eric.
• 9:35
  Going off to your definition, when you think about what you just read, oh,
• 9:39
  the Testarossa, instant collector item.
• 9:41
  Oh, the Viper, instant collector item.
• 9:43
  Oh, the Porsche, blah, blah, blah, instant collector item.
• 9:45
  Yeah, because nobody can afford them.
• 9:47
  They're limited production.
• 9:48
  It's exactly what they were talking about.
• 9:50
  I like those types of cars that are Like I own an Alfa Romeo Giulia Super.
• 9:55
  So it's a boxy four door sedan, but it's really cool.
• 9:59
  That car gets so much attention, but it was a mass market car.
• 10:04
  It was well designed.
• 10:05
  It had a race pedigree, but there were.
• 10:07
  Tens of thousands of them made, but most of them were left to rot.
• 10:11
  So then they became rare again.
• 10:13
  It's like Fiat five hundreds.
• 10:14
  They're really cute.
• 10:16
  They're cool, but they were a mass market car.
• 10:18
  A lot of them rotted on the vine and now they're pretty extraordinary
• 10:22
  and rare, even though they weren't really valuable to begin with.
• 10:25
  I mean, not that I'm trying to insult you or anything.
• 10:28
  But your Alpha and my Caprice, they've got a lot in common.
• 10:31
  They really do.
• 10:31
  They're little boxy cars.
• 10:33
  At least pair up your Fiat 124 with his Alpha.
• 10:36
  I mean, come on.
• 10:36
  No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 10:37
  We're talking about boxy sedans.
• 10:39
  Oh, okay.
• 10:41
  Not Minnietti Morelli sponsored vehicles.
• 10:43
  Yeah, I got you.
• 10:44
  It's all good.
• 10:44
  No, no, no.
• 10:45
  AC Delco, baby.
• 10:46
  AC Delco.
• 10:47
  Especially if it's an Impala SS.
• 10:52
  Oh, those are the best, aren't they?
• 10:54
  Oh yeah.
• 10:54
  Oh, the nineties ones.
• 10:55
  Yes.
• 10:56
  Fantastic.
• 10:56
  Yeah.
• 10:57
  My neighbor has one.
• 10:58
  I salivate every time I see that thing.
• 11:00
  LC one engine.
• 11:01
  So for our first time collector car buyer, let's call them that or classic car buyer.
• 11:06
  I think we need to now split this into different genres, which is why we actually
• 11:11
  have all of you on this show, because you represent the different genres
• 11:15
  that these cars can be dissected into.
• 11:17
  Unfortunately.
• 11:18
  Gunther couldn't make it.
• 11:20
  He was on an earlier episode of Break Fix in season one, where he came on
• 11:23
  and talked about Packards and actual classics from the classic car of America.
• 11:27
  So we call those pre war classics.
• 11:29
  Some of those are post war up to 1948, just after the Second World War.
• 11:34
  Then you have the post war cars, much like what Chris has with that Alfa Romeo
• 11:38
  being in the 50s and early 60s, right?
• 11:40
  That heyday, the Dolce Vita times.
• 11:43
  Then you've got these pre gas crisis, the muscle cars.
• 11:46
  This is where Rob and Don come into play.
• 11:49
  And then you've also got the malaise era, which Don is very familiar with.
• 11:53
  It's one of his favorites.
• 11:54
  Then there's Mark coming at this from.
• 11:57
  The last 20 years and older in the nineties with those
• 11:59
  are those collector cars now.
• 12:01
  So now let's kind of go around the horn a little bit here and talk
• 12:05
  about maybe some suggestions for the first time collector buyer for a car.
• 12:10
  That's let's say in today's market with adjusted for inflation, 50, 000 or less.
• 12:16
  So who wants to take on the challenge of a suggestion for our first time car buyer?
• 12:20
  Square body Chevrolet.
• 12:24
  Square body Silverado, but I will say from Gunther's episode, one thing he
• 12:30
  did recommend a lot of people like to go out and buy the rarest car they
• 12:34
  can find is like, Oh, it's an instant classic Gunther's philosophy was exactly
• 12:38
  the opposite of that, especially with the cars that he was dealing with.
• 12:40
  You want something that was more mass produced, something
• 12:43
  that a lot of people have.
• 12:44
  Because then it's a lot cheaper and a lot easier to get replacement parts.
• 12:48
  And when you're dealing with cars from pre 1948 or whatever, he said,
• 12:52
  you know, they're all rare at that.
• 12:54
  That is extremely important to be able to find parts to keep the car running.
• 12:59
  And that's our ultimate goal was to have a car that we can keep running.
• 13:02
  I know where you can find parts.
• 13:03
  That's a whole other conversation.
• 13:05
  And I think I'm putting myself, I was out at a cars and coffee last weekend
• 13:10
  and there were some, you know, kind of 18 to 20 year old kids and they
• 13:14
  were driving some interesting stuff.
• 13:16
  And we all forget the whole hot rod culture was basically built
• 13:20
  out of taking mass produced cars and making them your own.
• 13:23
  Right.
• 13:23
  And now we revere that.
• 13:25
  When people kind of shit on kids who are doing things with Subarus.
• 13:29
  It's like, it really makes me angry because here are these kids.
• 13:32
  It's like, they don't have a lot of money.
• 13:33
  They're probably working in a, you know, a Starbucks job or something like that.
• 13:37
  And this kid had, did any of y'all know what an Alfa Romeo Milano or a 75 is?
• 13:43
  It's kind of like a family car, but it's got a V6 Busso engine that when
• 13:49
  you tune it up, right, sounds like a formula one car and a transaxle.
• 13:54
  Drives like a dream.
• 13:56
  They race them back in the day.
• 13:57
  So it's got some pedigree and you can get one of those for like seven or eight
• 14:01
  grand, what a cool car for a kid to have.
• 14:04
  It's unusual.
• 14:05
  It's different.
• 14:06
  They get to learn about the history of a different mark that
• 14:08
  they may not have been part of.
• 14:10
  I don't care what you're into.
• 14:12
  If you're into cars.
• 14:13
  We're all down for it.
• 14:15
  And that's what I love about cars and coffee is like guys rolling
• 14:18
  up in 250, 000 supercars parking right next to these kids that I'm
• 14:21
  talking about that have 5, 000 cars.
• 14:24
  Like I talked to a kid who he was 15 and he had with his dad's help,
• 14:28
  he had helped him rebuild a Corvair.
• 14:30
  And, uh, you know, it's like, I want to give you a hug.
• 14:34
  I, I wish I at 15, this is getting out free hugs.
• 14:37
  Now, can you believe it?
• 14:40
  It's the, it's that drink.
• 14:41
  It's that adult drink.
• 14:42
  He's got, I
• 14:49
  really wanted to be a kid.
• 14:50
  Cars and coffee.
• 14:51
  Just don't do it.
• 14:53
  See, your cars and coffee are very different than ours.
• 14:56
  Cause ours are full of new age Mustangs and Camaros.
• 14:59
  Like I, you know, I don't get it.
• 15:01
  There definitely is a car culture in Portland around, you know, that
• 15:07
  they'd like to bring the oddities out.
• 15:09
  You can find, you know, early seventies, two door BMWs and other really kind
• 15:13
  of interesting stuff out there.
• 15:15
  It's kind of cool.
• 15:15
  The last time I visited Portland, I was shocked by the number of VW Type 2,
• 15:19
  squarebacks, 411s, all that kind of stuff.
• 15:22
  You know, station wagon culture for sure and in vans.
• 15:25
  And I'm like, wow, this is awesome.
• 15:27
  But I also have to remember West Coast.
• 15:28
  They don't rock like they do here on the East Coast.
• 15:31
  So for us, they're like unicorns.
• 15:33
  But out there, it's like, wow, amazing.
• 15:35
  Still on the road.
• 15:36
  To go back to Brad's point about what Gunther was saying,
• 15:39
  he's 100 percent right.
• 15:40
  And I will not.
• 15:41
  Try to imitate his German accent.
• 15:43
  Uh, so if you're listening, I'm not going to do it, but one of the things
• 15:49
  he did say, if you're looking pre war specifically, let's start there.
• 15:53
  He said, model a Ford is a great place to begin your journey in that.
• 15:59
  Genre of classic or collector car, because to Brad's point, they're
• 16:03
  mass produced parts are everywhere and you won't break the bank.
• 16:06
  It's when you get into the Packards and some of the Duesenbergs
• 16:09
  and all that stuff, you have to build your way up to that.
• 16:11
  You can't just walk in and say, ah, yeah, I'll take that studs over there.
• 16:14
  Have a nice day.
• 16:15
  I mean, maybe you can, but the pre war cars, they're getting tougher
• 16:18
  and tougher, you know, to deal with, but they're still really cool.
• 16:21
  I've driven some of those cars.
• 16:22
  They're as fun as something modern, but in a different way.
• 16:26
  Right.
• 16:26
  So it really depends on what gets you excited.
• 16:28
  So why don't we move to the heyday and go back to Chris for a moment
• 16:32
  and talk about the 50s and 60s.
• 16:34
  What have you got?
• 16:35
  What's a, what's a suggestion outside?
• 16:37
  The Milano is really modern, right?
• 16:38
  That's a late, late 80s, 90s car.
• 16:41
  Yeah.
• 16:41
  80s generally, you know, if you're looking for something earlier and I'm
• 16:46
  going to focus more on the European side, like 60s, that's affordable.
• 16:51
  That window is narrowing pretty quickly, especially if you're
• 16:54
  kind of to the, uh, Below 50 K.
• 16:58
  But from my standpoint, I like smaller cars, kind of
• 17:02
  underpowered cars in many ways.
• 17:04
  Like my Julie is a 1.
• 17:06
  3 liter and I took it out on tour and I like everybody else was having
• 17:09
  a good time, but I was working, I was driving the same speed as they
• 17:12
  were, but I had to work to keep that.
• 17:14
  80 horsepower kind of up with traffic.
• 17:16
  Right.
• 17:17
  That's what I kind of skew towards.
• 17:18
  So there's like a really cool kind of a little bit off the radar called an a bar
• 17:23
  record Monza, really cool little car.
• 17:26
  They're a little bit higher in there right around the late fifties, early
• 17:29
  sixties, and they come in at around 80 K.
• 17:32
  They're really cute and unusual.
• 17:34
  They're fun.
• 17:35
  They've got a race pedigree, but they aren't like overpowered either.
• 17:38
  They're.
• 17:39
  Four cylinder, but they rip tuned up.
• 17:42
  They've got hot cams.
• 17:43
  They've got really tight suspensions, pretty nice looking cars.
• 17:46
  So, you know, if you're looking like in the fifties, I would look at that or maybe
• 17:50
  like an Austin Keely 3000, something in those ranges, but you're still talking
• 17:54
  like around 50 K and I, I want to offer.
• 17:58
  People who are listening to this, like kind of like a, a lower level.
• 18:00
  And I think if I was really pointing to something European, I really dig Triumph
• 18:05
  TR4s, those are cool convertibles, great proportions, fun to drive, beautiful,
• 18:13
  not common, but not expensive either.
• 18:15
  You can probably get one for 20, 25 K.
• 18:18
  You know, I'm an Alfa Romeo guys, you've all deduced.
• 18:21
  And I really am a fan of.
• 18:24
  The earlier alphas from the 50s are really cool and iconic.
• 18:27
  But again, their prices are going up out of the reach of what someone might
• 18:31
  want to do for their first classic car.
• 18:33
  And 50s cars can be a lot if you aren't really up for that.
• 18:36
  So I kind of steer people into the 60s and 70s range of alphas,
• 18:41
  which are all the 105, 115 years.
• 18:43
  They all have common drivetrains.
• 18:46
  So There's three models.
• 18:48
  There's the belina or the the four-door sedan, the two-door coops,
• 18:52
  and then the the open top spiders.
• 18:54
  So you have three different distinct looking cars, but they're
• 18:57
  all on a common drivetrain.
• 18:59
  So parts are inexpensive and available.
• 19:01
  They're easy to repair.
• 19:03
  You can.
• 19:04
  Literally disassemble the engine with some wrenches and some Allen keys and
• 19:08
  you can tear down the entire engine.
• 19:10
  They're bulletproof engines, four cylinder chain drive, double
• 19:13
  overhead cams, lots of fun to drive, plentiful, unique, and available.
• 19:19
  Assuming they don't have Spica fuel injection.
• 19:21
  No, I recommend Spica.
• 19:22
  I disagree.
• 19:23
  Very cool.
• 19:24
  Well, then you can't say it's easy.
• 19:25
  Then you can't say it's an easy repair.
• 19:28
  You said about the dining room.
• 19:29
  One or the other.
• 19:30
  You got to pick one.
• 19:31
  Once you get them tuned, they just, they're pretty bulletproof.
• 19:36
  They're really good.
• 19:37
  But you know, I'm, I'm a fan of carburetors, carbureted engines and stuff.
• 19:41
  Like my car has a Delorto.
• 19:42
  It's got a single Delorto, but most people have put a couple of
• 19:45
  Webers on there and they're rippers.
• 19:48
  They're fine.
• 19:48
  And they're really great cars to drive super well balanced, but not overpowered.
• 19:53
  Chris, since you speak a little Italian, do you know what
• 19:56
  Delorto translates to in English?
• 19:58
  I believe of the, of the forest or of the garden garden, which is a slight
• 20:03
  reference to being agricultural.
• 20:08
  Lamborghini was a tractor company.
• 20:09
  Come on.
• 20:09
  I know.
• 20:10
  Right.
• 20:11
  But I was thinking it meant being environmentally friendly, a car, a
• 20:15
  car motor, environmentally friendly.
• 20:18
  Before I pass the baton, I do want to play off something you said about the barth.
• 20:21
  I am a big fan of the Fiat 850.
• 20:23
  That's a cheaper version of a similar car.
• 20:26
  They came in a ton of different variants.
• 20:27
  You can get into coupe and all this kind of stuff.
• 20:29
  I think they're again, quirky.
• 20:31
  The one really neat thing about that car, people don't realize it's
• 20:34
  rear mounted, just like a nine 11.
• 20:36
  So you can have some really fun trailing throttle oversteer in those cars, but
• 20:40
  it technically doesn't have enough.
• 20:42
  Horsepower to get out of its own way, but still it'll put a smile on your
• 20:45
  face, you know, day in and day out.
• 20:47
  No, I think that's a great suggestion.
• 20:49
  Another great car.
• 20:50
  I mean, there, there are different cars.
• 20:51
  I mean, some of them have just gotten so valuable that I wouldn't steer
• 20:55
  someone that for their first car.
• 20:57
  Right.
• 20:58
  You know, and like Porsche three 56 is they're kind of fun, but since you
• 21:02
  brought that up, I'll put it to our other resident Porsche guy on the list here.
• 21:06
  What about the beetle?
• 21:08
  He makes a grimace when I say beetle.
• 21:11
  I've had friends that are huge beetle fans.
• 21:14
  It's almost a subculture in and of itself.
• 21:16
  It's like beetles, Jeeps, they are their own culture.
• 21:20
  And it's like, at that point, what year do you buy?
• 21:22
  You just buy one made in the nineties in Mexico.
• 21:25
  That's.
• 21:26
  Just a more recent copy of the 1960s or 70s version.
• 21:31
  Like, uh, everybody wants a split window.
• 21:33
  We all know this, right?
• 21:34
  They're only a hundred grand.
• 21:35
  I mean, come on.
• 21:36
  But I think the Beatle is an entry level Collector car in a way.
• 21:44
  I mean, it is mass produced, but you can do really, to your point, you do
• 21:46
  really cool stuff with Beatles, right?
• 21:48
  I mean, I'm not saying turn it into a Myers Manx overnight or something
• 21:51
  extreme, but you can have a lot of fun with the bug for not a lot of money.
• 21:54
  So I think it fits maybe in that same category as the Fiat 850, or
• 21:57
  even the early one 20 fours, which are more in the seventies, but we'll
• 22:01
  talk about that in a little bit.
• 22:03
  I want to give Rob an opportunity.
• 22:04
  You got anything from the domestic side of the house in the fifties that would
• 22:07
  be under 50 K that would be good starter.
• 22:10
  You're having a little bit of a challenge on that.
• 22:12
  Because those cars are going, most of them are going over 50, they're decent ones.
• 22:16
  Your Fords are cheaper, overall.
• 22:18
  Fords are less expensive, although their prices are coming up higher.
• 22:21
  I've seen these crazy auction prices, and Thunderbirds used to be less
• 22:25
  than 50, now they're going over 50.
• 22:27
  Depends on condition, all about condition.
• 22:29
  What's in the car and who built the car and all that good stuff.
• 22:32
  But I, I, you could probably get under 50 and a Thunderbird.
• 22:35
  I agree with what he was saying.
• 22:38
  The Thunderbirds are a great way to go, especially, uh, you know, the 57s, 55, 56.
• 22:43
  Those are always a little, but I think if you get a square bird, which is a 58.
• 22:47
  To, uh, 60, those, you can always get a real nice bargain on, you can
• 22:51
  even get the 61 to the 60, uh, 66.
• 22:55
  Those are pretty nice too.
• 22:56
  The, the, to me, they look like a switchblade, but, uh,
• 22:58
  those are pretty nice too.
• 22:59
  You can always get a nice bargain.
• 23:01
  And I guess I'm a sucker for this, but what is it that you like?
• 23:04
  You know, if you like the 57 Thunderbird, we can find you one for under 50.
• 23:08
  It's going to be over 20, I'm sure, but you know, we can still find you one.
• 23:12
  It just depends on I had a friend back in the day, he had a 70 Charger.
• 23:17
  I remember thinking to myself, that to me is the ugliest of
• 23:20
  the three, the 68, 69, and 70.
• 23:22
  I prefer the 68, but I never liked that big lip mouth that the 70s had.
• 23:27
  I just thought those were kind of ugly.
• 23:29
  But I remember thinking to myself, why did you buy that one?
• 23:31
  Why don't you hold on to the 68 but I got to thinking
• 23:34
  they're basically the same car.
• 23:35
  Just go enjoy yourself.
• 23:36
  Have a good time.
• 23:37
  Don't get stuck on stupid little details.
• 23:40
  And.
• 23:40
  You know, not enjoy the car, the 50 60s are getting harder and harder
• 23:44
  because the cars are going up.
• 23:46
  What is it that makes a, uh, a fair lane more collectible than a falcon?
• 23:51
  Does it go back to what you were saying about the ACA where it has
• 23:54
  to be rarer, it has to be more expensive, it has to be more powerful.
• 23:58
  Okay, well, that would be a fair lane over a falcon for sure.
• 24:01
  But I've seen a lot of falcons out there that are just exquisite.
• 24:05
  They're, they're crazy.
• 24:06
  And you think to yourself, why would you put all this money into a Falcon?
• 24:08
  Oh, because I like it.
• 24:09
  Ah, there it is.
• 24:10
  Your recommendations for the fifties or sixties.
• 24:12
  I, I, God, there are so many different cars out there.
• 24:16
  Even if you go off the big three and start looking at other cars from
• 24:19
  Hudson, look at the car from Willis.
• 24:22
  There's all these different off the beaten path manufacturers that really were
• 24:26
  results from coming out of World War II.
• 24:29
  Everybody wanted a car, and there was this flurry of manufacturers
• 24:32
  popping up left, right, center.
• 24:34
  I'll tell you one that I think is off the grid, that two of them that
• 24:37
  always pop to mind, is Mercury.
• 24:40
  And Oldsmobile collection cars, always Ford, Chevy, bam, there they are.
• 24:43
  Then there's Cadillac Lincoln, you know, and then somewhere there's
• 24:46
  this Imperial guy off to the side.
• 24:48
  When you get down to it, it's always Ford, Chevy, Ford, Chevy, Ford, Chevy.
• 24:51
  Then there's the Imperial guy.
• 24:52
  Then there's a Chrysler guy, the Cadillac guy, that Lincoln guy.
• 24:54
  You rarely hear about the old mobile guys or the Mercury guys.
• 24:57
  Cause there are none because of that.
• 24:59
  There's a glut of cars out there that cannot find buyers because
• 25:03
  people don't think about them.
• 25:04
  You know, one of the cars I look at every now and then is a, it's
• 25:07
  a 69 Mercury Marquis convertible.
• 25:09
  It's a great car.
• 25:10
  It's basically the same thing as a Ford XL.
• 25:12
  You've got the 429, you've got the four barrel, the, the C6.
• 25:16
  You got all the stuff to make it go, but it's thousands less than the Ford.
• 25:21
  It's a knee jerk reaction.
• 25:22
  Get a Ford, get a Ford, get a Ford, get a Ford, or get a Chevy, get a Chevy.
• 25:25
  Well, wait a minute.
• 25:25
  Why don't we slow down?
• 25:27
  Let's go up a scale.
• 25:28
  What about a Mercury?
• 25:29
  What about an Oldsmobile?
• 25:31
  You're getting more car for the money, and it's less money, usually.
• 25:34
  I encourage people to look outside of the neighborhood and
• 25:38
  see what you can find that way.
• 25:39
  Also add to Don's suggestion, Buick.
• 25:42
  And possibly Pontiac and also go with the cars that are not the high end models now.
• 25:48
  So like a Pontiac T37, for example, that's like 1970.
• 25:52
  But if you go back to like the Buick Skylarks, the Pontiac Lomanzas,
• 25:56
  the Oldsmobile, not the 442 necessarily, but the, um, Cutlass.
• 26:00
  The Cutlass.
• 26:01
  Yeah.
• 26:01
  You can get those almost at a bargain rate.
• 26:04
  Actually, Chris did a swap meet with me.
• 26:06
  It was a 1965 Buick Skylark convertible.
• 26:09
  A guy was selling for 12, 000.
• 26:11
  Decent shape.
• 26:12
  Probably could have got it for 10, 000.
• 26:14
  I mean, it could probably work more money.
• 26:16
  I think that's where to go now.
• 26:18
  And the parts, you can still get the parts.
• 26:20
  I'd like to throw in a quick plug since we're talking about GM's dead relatives.
• 26:24
  They made some cool supercharged Oldsmobiles in the 90s.
• 26:27
  Yes, they did.
• 26:28
  They were kind of badass.
• 26:30
  Yes, they did.
• 26:30
  No, you're absolutely right.
• 26:31
  And don't forget the quad four.
• 26:33
  Yeah.
• 26:33
  That was a tough little guy.
• 26:34
  It really was.
• 26:35
  I was going to ask, was that Buick Skylark mint green convertible and
• 26:39
  was it coming out of the sack of suds?
• 26:44
  To their point, I'm on Hemings right now and you can get a 68
• 26:47
  Oldsmobile 442 for 40 grand.
• 26:49
  That's really good.
• 26:50
  That's really good.
• 26:51
  Yeah.
• 26:51
  Don's right.
• 26:52
  Everybody sleeps on the other bastard children of the GM and Ford.
• 26:56
  No Mopar love here though.
• 26:57
  I don't, I don't, you know, it's funny.
• 27:00
  I love, I do.
• 27:01
  I love those old Chrysler, but my God, are they outrageously expensive?
• 27:05
  If they have a fin, forget about it.
• 27:06
  Yeah.
• 27:07
  I need leather and Ricardo Montalbán.
• 27:10
  Okay.
• 27:11
  And don't forget in 1981, they reintroduced the Imperial.
• 27:15
  And they had to go a step above Ricardo.
• 27:17
  They got Frank Sinatra to introduce that.
• 27:19
  They went all the way out, baby, all the way up, you know, get your three
• 27:23
  martinis, let's go have some dolls.
• 27:24
  You know, I mean, I love what you said earlier, Don, you know, the,
• 27:27
  you find a car that somebody spent an irrational amount of money on.
• 27:30
  I learned that lesson on my father's knee with his.
• 27:33
  72 dots in two 40 that you couldn't hold together.
• 27:37
  The thing just instantly rusted and fell apart.
• 27:40
  Like every time you put a new thing on it, it just turned to dust.
• 27:44
  Like Thanos snapped his fingers or something, but he loved that car.
• 27:48
  He put the money into it and he sold it for a small, small fraction of what he
• 27:53
  put into it because when he sold it, it wasn't cool yet in the early nineties
• 27:57
  or whatever, for actually giving car buying advice, instead of kind of.
• 28:00
  Taking the piss with each other.
• 28:01
  If I'm buying my first classic car, I would look for a car that somebody
• 28:05
  spent money on, like they were going to give it to their kid and this
• 28:08
  was going to stay in their family for the next several generations.
• 28:11
  Yeah.
• 28:11
  I think that's a good idea.
• 28:12
  And I think that applies to any car you're going to get.
• 28:15
  I mean, really try to buy the best of the best of the best that you can.
• 28:18
  Cheaper to buy a car already restored or highly worked on versus
• 28:22
  buying a pile of junk, so to speak.
• 28:24
  But there's a lot of people to buy, buy piles of junk for VIN numbers.
• 28:27
  They spend hundreds of thousands of dollars because it could be a
• 28:31
  sentimental reason they're buying it, not because it's a practical reason.
• 28:34
  So what you guys are saying is the adage from racing, how to make a
• 28:38
  fortune in racing is to start with a large one is this is very much the
• 28:42
  same in collector car world, right?
• 28:45
  That being said, it sounds like we ushered ourselves into the late sixties and early
• 28:50
  seventies without even really trying.
• 28:52
  So I got a couple of cars to throw out there that, you
• 28:54
  know, for you guys to chew on.
• 28:56
  One of them personal favorite of mine and I kind of rediscovered it when the Clint
• 29:00
  Eastwood movie came out called Gran Torino and specifically the Gran Torino sport.
• 29:06
  I personally think it's the only good looking one because the
• 29:09
  Starsky and Hutch one is terrible.
• 29:11
  Many people will argue with me.
• 29:12
  Don's making a face.
• 29:16
  I'm a big fan of square lines and round headlights.
• 29:19
  You know, that's why I like M3s and other things like that.
• 29:22
  But that car has a really nice shape to it.
• 29:25
  It has nice hips.
• 29:25
  It has nice curves.
• 29:27
  I don't know what they go for, but that would be on my list to target if
• 29:31
  I was looking for a car from that era.
• 29:32
  I have just a story to add to that.
• 29:35
  When I was A little, little boy.
• 29:37
  The first car that my parents bought new was a grand Torino.
• 29:41
  They kept it long enough where I got to learn to drive
• 29:44
  three on the tree in that car.
• 29:46
  It wasn't one of the nice, but it was a, it was a six cylinder,
• 29:49
  but, uh, still great car.
• 29:51
  Super fond of it.
• 29:52
  I mean, that's like having a six cylinder challenger.
• 29:56
  I'd still be okay with it.
• 29:57
  You know what I mean?
• 29:58
  Which brings me to another car that is out of the realm of possibility,
• 30:02
  but it's always been on my collector car list for that early muscle car
• 30:06
  era, or it's right in the muscle car era really is a 70 challenger.
• 30:10
  Like you saw in vanishing point, like I fell in love with that car.
• 30:13
  It's nothing really to write home about in those days.
• 30:17
  But you're just like, Oh, it's so cool, you know?
• 30:19
  And so if they were below 50 grand, I'd be all over it.
• 30:22
  But for less than 50 grand, you could buy a Viper two years
• 30:25
  ago, and it's a way better car.
• 30:27
  But I do have one other one, and it's right on the edge of when things
• 30:31
  started to turn and the EPA got involved and safety started to change.
• 30:35
  And then after the highway, Whatever you say next, prepare.
• 30:39
  I will stop at 1973.
• 30:43
  Say the MGB, because that's before they got the ugly bumpers.
• 30:48
  , we could say that about the portion.
• 30:49
  Nine 14, also a hundred percent true.
• 30:53
  14.
• 30:53
  Fix the bumpers.
• 30:54
  That's not hard.
• 30:55
  That was one of my recommendations as a nine 14.
• 30:58
  I'd love nine 14, and I go along Eric.
• 31:01
  Product placement.
• 31:02
  Product placement.
• 31:03
  Venmo me.
• 31:04
  Uh, I was just hanging out with this guy who is like the Porsche 914 King
• 31:10
  down in Redwood city, California.
• 31:12
  He raced them and his whole business was he started road racing them and
• 31:17
  he'd go out and kick everybody's ass.
• 31:18
  And then all of them would come in and they would.
• 31:21
  Pay him to tune up their cars and then he would kind of keep that going.
• 31:26
  So I owned a Porsche 9 28, which we'll get to in a little bit.
• 31:29
  Oh, oh, I'm right there with you on that.
• 31:30
  So, so we'll that come because it's, we're not in that era yet, but any
• 31:35
  Porsche that isn't a rear engine Porsche, I love, they two exceptions, the 9
• 31:41
  24 and the 9 68, those are garbage.
• 31:43
  But uh, the 9 28.
• 31:46
  Don's face is priceless.
• 31:50
  I could like you.
• 31:51
  I did.
• 31:51
  Like I had a Cayman, you know, it was mid engine, but I think that's a very
• 32:00
  rich scene because they're undervalued.
• 32:02
  Like the nine 11 rear engine, especially air cooled, but now even water cooled.
• 32:06
  They're the top performers and the ones that people splash cash on, but.
• 32:10
  Go get a 944.
• 32:11
  Go get a 928.
• 32:13
  I promise you, you will, if you get one, that's good.
• 32:16
  And if you like the 944, what's wrong with the 968?
• 32:20
  They're just ugly.
• 32:21
  Oh, I don't know.
• 32:23
  You have blasphemed.
• 32:28
  You have to give a better reason than aesthetics.
• 32:30
  Aesthetics is relative.
• 32:32
  The 968 is a good car.
• 32:33
  I think it looks good.
• 32:34
  The 968 is a perfect car.
• 32:35
  And the 924 is a great car, too.
• 32:38
  No, no, no, no, no.
• 32:39
  I love those cars.
• 32:40
  It just looks like someone, there was a little baby playing with cars, and
• 32:45
  they took a 944, and they were going, nyeh, nyeh, nyeh, and they matched
• 32:49
  it with a 928, and it's just like That's 100 percent what they did.
• 32:53
  it is.
• 32:54
  Don't you remember the ad?
• 32:55
  Don't you remember the magazine ad and it shows the cars that are staggered and the
• 33:01
  ad said simply it has his father's eyes.
• 33:05
  Remember that?
• 33:05
  100%.
• 33:06
  And that was the 9 68.
• 33:08
  It just doesn't work for me.
• 33:10
  So, so let's, let's backpedal on this a little bit, right?
• 33:12
  Because you're, you're on to something and we're going to get to this a little bit
• 33:15
  later on to the 9 14 is in the lineage.
• 33:19
  Of Porsche that is one of the true roadsters.
• 33:22
  So that is defined as a proper two seater, no backseat.
• 33:26
  So none of these nine 11s with their jump seats or speedsters,
• 33:29
  they're not roadsters, right?
• 33:31
  So it follows the lineage of the five 50 and some of these other vehicles.
• 33:35
  And there's another episode that you can nerd out on where Lee Raskin talks all
• 33:38
  about that along with James Dean and his whole history, but what I'm getting at
• 33:42
  is the nine 14 has been underappreciated for so long that it is a good buy.
• 33:46
  If you can find one.
• 33:48
  Now you're not going to buy.
• 33:50
  A last year to leader.
• 33:52
  Good luck on a 9 14 6.
• 33:53
  That's out of the equation.
• 33:55
  Those are six figure cars.
• 33:56
  So you're gonna get stuck with a 74 with the ugly rubber bumpers
• 34:01
  because of the ones that nobody wants because the early cars are either
• 34:03
  to somebody's point a race car.
• 34:05
  Or completely unaffordable.
• 34:07
  That said, recently we reviewed an article from Forbes where they nominated the 914
• 34:13
  as an up and comer in the collector world.
• 34:15
  But I wouldn't vote for that on this list.
• 34:17
  I'm with Don.
• 34:18
  I want to go for the weird one.
• 34:19
  I want to go for the oddball.
• 34:21
  I want to go for the 912.
• 34:23
  Which gives me the 911 styling with the 914 powerplant.
• 34:26
  Nobody wants a 912.
• 34:29
  For good reason.
• 34:30
  You know, I think, I think your conversation is getting very,
• 34:33
  very interesting here because I'm a huge fan of Ferrari 308.
• 34:36
  I, I really am.
• 34:37
  It's the Magnum PI upbringing, I guess, but I've always loved that car.
• 34:41
  And I watched them just.
• 34:43
  Skyrocket in value in the last few years.
• 34:45
  Well, why is that?
• 34:46
  If you start to look around all the Ferraris, especially those V12s and
• 34:50
  Chris, correct me if I'm wrong, you're kind of the resident Italian guy here,
• 34:53
  but the V12s, the flat 12s, they've all been going absolutely psychotic.
• 34:59
  Well, I want a Ferrari.
• 35:00
  I want a Ferrari.
• 35:00
  Well, I'm going to go get a 308.
• 35:01
  That's what I'm going to get.
• 35:02
  Cause I can afford a 308.
• 35:03
  I can go get a 308.
• 35:04
  Now taking this back over to Porsche, 914s, chrome bumper, 914s, 6.
• 35:10
  Unobtainium.
• 35:11
  So we go get the next best thing, which is the rubber bumper.
• 35:15
  Everybody wants to call it ugly, but whatever here nor there,
• 35:18
  but it's what I can afford.
• 35:20
  You see what I'm saying?
• 35:20
  So people get into the mode and that's what's going to drive up
• 35:24
  the price of the 914 rubber bumper.
• 35:27
  Is everybody wanting it?
• 35:28
  What happened to the 308?
• 35:30
  Uh, the stories I could tell you about 308s, I could have had, but
• 35:34
  everybody told me, Oh, don't buy that.
• 35:36
  That's a shit car.
• 35:36
  You don't want that car.
• 35:37
  It's a terrible car.
• 35:38
  You don't want that car.
• 35:39
  They built too many of them.
• 35:40
  Never be worth anything.
• 35:41
  Bah, bah, bah, bah, bah.
• 35:42
  We'll look at them now.
• 35:43
  First rule of car buying.
• 35:44
  If Jeremy Clarkson says, don't buy it, buy it.
• 35:47
  Yeah.
• 35:50
  Why do you want a Ferrari?
• 35:51
  Can I interest you in a Mondial?
• 35:51
  The Mondial and the 968 in a room and like, Birthed, uh,
• 36:02
  The . I mean, do do's having an aneurysm?
• 36:05
  Don's gonna have a heart attack.
• 36:07
  'cause every car we say is ugly.
• 36:08
  I'm just gonna leave ugly.
• 36:08
  He's, I, I'm just gonna leave.
• 36:10
  I'm gonna go hug my caprice and I'm gonna leave, you know, . But what's
• 36:15
  interesting about the 3 0 8, I want to go back to that for a moment, right?
• 36:18
  That like the 9 44 was the every man's Ferrari, right?
• 36:21
  Mm-Hmm.
• 36:21
  . And the 9 44 was the every man's Porsche.
• 36:23
  It was affordable back then.
• 36:25
  They're still sort of affordable today.
• 36:28
  But the thing that is actually really obtainable, if you love the body
• 36:32
  style of the three Oh eight, and now because of gray market laws and things
• 36:36
  like that, you can get them, they weren't sold here, but there was a
• 36:39
  two Oh eight, which was a two liter turbo VA that was available in Europe.
• 36:44
  And it's looks exactly the same, but nobody knows the difference.
• 36:46
  I'm sure Chris is too.
• 36:48
  I'm on some of these Italian car marketplaces and I see them all the time.
• 36:52
  And it's like, Oh, 12, 000 euros and you can have a 308 and nobody
• 36:56
  knows the difference, right?
• 36:57
  So I think they're kind of cool.
• 36:59
  I think they're cool, but they were so unloved that it's hard to
• 37:02
  find one that's even worth saving.
• 37:04
  That's the challenge when you get into some of these oddball cars, those cars
• 37:08
  in particular, if they've been sitting around, it's going to cost you five times
• 37:13
  what you paid for it to get it back on the road and kind of be operational.
• 37:16
  So if you're doing it and you have a good one and someone who's loved it
• 37:20
  and driven it often, that's great.
• 37:22
  If it's been under a tarp in the back of a garage, run away, run fast and far.
• 37:29
  This, this could bring you business.
• 37:30
  You should be encouraging people in the business, buddy.
• 37:34
  Come on.
• 37:35
  Sometimes I don't always think of my own best interests, but, you know,
• 37:38
  just to pick up the thread of this.
• 37:39
  So I own a Ferrari 348, which is often referred to as one of the
• 37:43
  most unloved Ferraris of all time.
• 37:46
  I love them.
• 37:46
  Thank you very much.
• 37:48
  It is though.
• 37:49
  I'm not saying that's right.
• 37:50
  I'm just saying, yeah, it's true.
• 37:52
  Those things that I had portion 9 28 which was unloved and I had now
• 37:56
  a Ferrari 3 48 and it's unloved.
• 37:58
  I got it for 33, 000 and it was very well maintained and very well loved.
• 38:03
  Oh my God.
• 38:04
  What a bargain.
• 38:05
  It's got a rip in the, a last analog Ferrari, no power steering.
• 38:12
  It's got renowned for its steering and drivability.
• 38:15
  It's a phenomenal car.
• 38:17
  It will be available on bring a trailer by the time this episode comes out.
• 38:20
  But, uh, I think one of the best parts about the three 48 though,
• 38:27
  aside from the price is if you're not in the know, it's one of those cars.
• 38:32
  Kind of like the 968 that you didn't know what it was when it was coming or going.
• 38:37
  Because if you look at it from the back, if you're not a Ferrari person,
• 38:39
  you say, Oh, look at that Tessa Rosa.
• 38:41
  Cause it has those, those greats over the lights.
• 38:43
  It's really wide.
• 38:44
  And from the front, you think it's a 512 TR because of those fog
• 38:48
  lights and the grill at the way that it's scooped in the front.
• 38:51
  So you're like, you kind of don't know what it is.
• 38:53
  They're super cool because they are understated and they're pretty cheap.
• 38:57
  Now, granted engine out is the service position to do any maintenance.
• 39:02
  That's the whole Ferrari scam.
• 39:03
  Right.
• 39:04
  And I kind of warn people off of buying Ferraris in general, just because they
• 39:08
  have these incredibly expensive by design.
• 39:11
  It was part of the business plan to have these engine out services to keep the
• 39:15
  service departments at the dealerships.
• 39:17
  Operational and keeping the money coming in, but the three 48, we've kind of jumped
• 39:22
  out of the era that we were talking about.
• 39:24
  I bring it up only because it was in the, the, the nine 14, but that
• 39:30
  particular car it's less related to a Tessa Rosa or even a three 28.
• 39:35
  It's actual big brother is the F 40.
• 39:39
  It's got the longitudinal engine.
• 39:41
  It's like an un, Turboed F40.
• 39:43
  Now it's got a little bit lesser parts, but it's got the same
• 39:46
  layout and a lot of the same drivability and a lot of the same.
• 39:49
  There's a lot of common parts between them.
• 39:51
  And the fact that 328s are cool, but one of the problems is they
• 39:56
  aren't cool in a literal way because the radiators are right in
• 40:00
  front of the driver's compartment.
• 40:01
  And in the summer day, you just get heat bombed out of them.
• 40:05
  So in the 348, they moved them back.
• 40:08
  That's why the, the, the streaks are on the side.
• 40:10
  Great car, really fun to drive.
• 40:12
  And, and I think that's a philosophy that I have is like, go for the little
• 40:17
  oddball, like you guys were talking about where it's like a little off
• 40:20
  the mark, cause you get like 98 or 99 percent of the car for probably
• 40:25
  sometimes a third or a quarter of the price of the one that everybody aims at.
• 40:30
  So I'll throw a couple others.
• 40:31
  So now we're in 1968 to 1974, right?
• 40:34
  We're sitting in that era.
• 40:36
  The pre Malaysia era, which Don will define for us here shortly.
• 40:40
  The other cars that we've overlooked are entries from BMW, like the
• 40:44
  2002s, but also the Audi 100s.
• 40:46
  They also get overlooked, right?
• 40:48
  They had some Audi 100 coupes back then, you know, Pre dating
• 40:51
  the famous UR Quattros and all that, and those are out there.
• 40:54
  I've seen some popping up on Instagram lately, and also
• 40:57
  you mentioned the 308 and 328.
• 40:59
  We're going to go back to that again.
• 41:00
  They're the big brothers of the Fiat X1 9.
• 41:03
  So that's another underappreciated car.
• 41:05
  It's not.
• 41:06
  Fast by any stretch of the imagination.
• 41:08
  But if you want an affordable version of that with plentiful backing,
• 41:13
  because they were raced forever and there's a big subculture for X one
• 41:16
  nines, that's another car to look at.
• 41:18
  Piggyback on that, which is the launch of full via rally car with a, it's
• 41:22
  really interesting if you guys ever seen one or been around them, the
• 41:25
  engine is all cockeyed and rotated over to lower the center of mass.
• 41:29
  And they're incredibly good cars.
• 41:31
  And they're very unappreciated because lunch yet.
• 41:33
  Especially in the U S was never that big of a deal or very well known.
• 41:37
  So I'll just throw that one in there as a, another one, one of my
• 41:40
  favorite cars in that era, the BMW E9 before bringing trail, I got ruined.
• 41:44
  I used to look at those things and they were, most of them were in Portland.
• 41:48
  And I mean, I haven't priced one in a while.
• 41:51
  I hope they're still under 50 grand, but they were pretty damn reasonable.
• 41:55
  Beautiful cars too.
• 41:57
  Yeah.
• 41:57
  And gorgeous.
• 41:58
  Like the proportions are great.
• 42:00
  No, they're not fast.
• 42:01
  At all.
• 42:02
  Well, everybody wants the CSL or the quote unquote Batmobile and that version of
• 42:06
  it, but why not just have the regular 6, 3, 5 or whatever the equivalent is, 800?
• 42:11
  Yeah.
• 42:11
  You can do an engine swap and then you don't feel guilty if you do
• 42:14
  something interesting with it.
• 42:15
  Like, what the hell?
• 42:16
  I mean, I, I guess if I'm, if I'm giving legitimate advice,
• 42:19
  don't feel bad about being basic.
• 42:21
  Ford.
• 42:21
  So everybody aspires to buy a rental car.
• 42:23
  I've said it many times.
• 42:24
  If you like us, if you like a 69 Mustang or Camaro, then
• 42:28
  get a 69 Mustang or Camaro.
• 42:30
  Like there's a million things you can do with that platform.
• 42:33
  You can fix any problem you don't like.
• 42:35
  You don't like the interior.
• 42:36
  There's a ton of options.
• 42:38
  You don't like the, the axle.
• 42:39
  You can put an IRS kit in the back.
• 42:41
  You can do anything you want with those platforms.
• 42:43
  As far as you want to take them.
• 42:45
  You know, we've talked about everything that's from the stock point of view.
• 42:47
  Really haven't talked about modified because today people are modifying
• 42:51
  pretty much almost everything.
• 42:53
  I mean, you got your purists out there, but now we got a new generation coming
• 42:57
  in here and, and even the guys in our older age range with everything.
• 43:00
  Well, how do I want to drive this car and what comfort level do I have?
• 43:04
  Do I want to add air to it?
• 43:05
  Well, I'd rather ship versus an automatic one.
• 43:07
  I was just like, change my transmission, put a five speed in one way.
• 43:11
  They only have four speeds and then I could drive on the
• 43:13
  highway or 80 miles an hour.
• 43:14
  Crazy rear ratios like 411s can't drive those things unless
• 43:18
  you have a, an overdrive, right?
• 43:20
  Yeah.
• 43:21
  On the highway, it begs to mention that, you know, we might want to
• 43:23
  look at consider that as well.
• 43:25
  And that's going to probably will affect the value.
• 43:27
  Obviously nowadays they, you see these crazy cars going with
• 43:30
  auction or higher than stock value when they're highly modified.
• 43:33
  You got five or two cubic inches, probably with the supercharger, you got six gears
• 43:38
  or they're using two 56s in them now.
• 43:40
  You know, anything's possible, but I would go back again like
• 43:43
  we were talking about before.
• 43:45
  If you don't have to get a Camaro, get a Firebird.
• 43:47
  I am a Firebird junkie.
• 43:49
  I don't mind Camaro.
• 43:49
  I think they're okay.
• 43:50
  But Firebird and Trans Am have always just, you know, again,
• 43:54
  it's that white trash, smoky in the bandit upbringing, I guess.
• 43:58
  But if you're going to get a, if you're going to get a malaise muscle
• 44:00
  car, you might as well get a Firebird.
• 44:02
  Like, are we moving in?
• 44:03
  Are we moving into the late 70s now?
• 44:05
  Are we going there?
• 44:06
  You don't have to, you don't have to, you know, it was funny.
• 44:10
  We were talking about your challenger earlier.
• 44:12
  You're talking about your challenger in 1970.
• 44:14
  And it's really funny because in the back of my mind, I'm thinking
• 44:16
  to myself, give me a Trans Am any day of the week, twice on Sunday.
• 44:20
  I don't care what the challenger pack and give me a Trans Am.
• 44:24
  Again, it's personal preference.
• 44:25
  It really is.
• 44:26
  I've had a few Mopars they're interesting.
• 44:28
  They're unique.
• 44:29
  I've never had a Trans Am, just always wanted one, but you know,
• 44:32
  the Trans Am first started 1969 with the first body style, first
• 44:37
  generation, but it was very limited.
• 44:39
  So that goes right in your hand of what's a collector car.
• 44:42
  Anybody who knows GM muscle cars, anybody who knows muscle cars,
• 44:46
  I'll tell you right off the bat.
• 44:47
  The original 69 Trans Am is one of the absolute crown jewels, especially
• 44:53
  If it's one of the seven or eight convertibles that were built and it's
• 44:56
  seven or eight because nobody can agree.
• 44:58
  Was it seven?
• 44:58
  Was it eight?
• 44:59
  Nobody really knows.
• 45:00
  It was one or the other.
• 45:02
  Obviously, if you have a car of one of seven or eight built, you
• 45:05
  know, you kind of won the bet.
• 45:06
  Why not a Tempest?
• 45:07
  Not a GTO.
• 45:08
  You can make a Tempest into a GTO.
• 45:11
  And I know everybody wants the Judge, right?
• 45:13
  And all that stuff.
• 45:14
  And here's kind of the funny thing.
• 45:15
  When you're talking about Pontiac, when it, when you go to Tempest, before
• 45:18
  John DeLorean snuck the GTO into the back door, GM wanted to kill, they
• 45:24
  thought, nah, we're never going to be able to sell enough of these things.
• 45:26
  Get rid of this stupid GTO.
• 45:28
  I don't want to hear about it.
• 45:28
  We're going to get a lawsuit from Ferrari.
• 45:30
  It's just not worth it.
• 45:32
  And DeLorean made it.
• 45:33
  What an options package for the Tempest.
• 45:36
  Well, I don't know exactly how it went down, but there was the Tempest
• 45:40
  3 26 HO and not many people know about these cars, and they were literally, it
• 45:45
  was a high output, 3 26 4 barrel, the whole nine yards heavy duty suspension.
• 45:50
  Basically, it's a baby GTO.
• 45:53
  But I wanna say 1964, they built 3,800 of those cars, or 4,200
• 45:57
  of those cars versus 33,000 GTO.
• 46:03
  Equipped Tempest.
• 46:04
  But the question is, where do you find them?
• 46:06
  A lot of people that have Tempest, they don't even know that they
• 46:09
  have the HO or the, the lamont.
• 46:10
  They don't even know that they have that HO package.
• 46:13
  They just know that they have a really cool old car that looks like a GTO.
• 46:17
  They have no idea what they've got.
• 46:18
  You know, that's one of those funky cars that if you really start
• 46:21
  to look again, we're going back.
• 46:22
  Who, Hey, buy a Mercury, buy an Oldsmobile.
• 46:25
  Okay, fine.
• 46:25
  Buy a Pontiac, the Bonneville's.
• 46:27
  Holy cow.
• 46:28
  I mean those, that's like buying a Cadillac.
• 46:30
  Those things are or Grand Prix, right?
• 46:31
  Oh, the Grand Prix are nuts.
• 46:33
  Yeah, those are absolutely not.
• 46:34
  And, and it wasn't long ago, I wanna say it was a 72.
• 46:37
  It was a Firebird and it was white.
• 46:39
  White with a 4 55 and an automatic, but it was a Firebird.
• 46:43
  It was not a Trans Am, but it was a 455.
• 46:46
  And I thought, I didn't think that they built that.
• 46:49
  I really didn't.
• 46:50
  So I started looking it up and now they did.
• 46:52
  You could have had it.
• 46:53
  They built something like 1200 of them.
• 46:55
  We're talking the Rockford Files Firebird, the entry level Firebird.
• 46:59
  It was white, white, crazy color combination.
• 47:03
  You know, you don't see cars like this, but I think you
• 47:05
  guys are on the right path.
• 47:06
  When you're trying to tell somebody, what kind of collector car should we buy?
• 47:10
  Chris, we can talk Ferrari all day long, but you're right.
• 47:13
  Trying to get one of these things serviced, it's going
• 47:15
  to put you in the poor house.
• 47:16
  Just the tires alone can put you in the poor house.
• 47:19
  You got to be really careful.
• 47:20
  You know, the Ferrari, I'm looking at the 456, 90s new millennium kind of car.
• 47:24
  So it's out of this conversation for the moment.
• 47:26
  But my God, are they a bargain?
• 47:28
  They're a V12 front engine.
• 47:30
  And if you can find a stick shift, I like the stick shift.
• 47:33
  The price goes up quite a bit, but even the automatic, why not get the automatic?
• 47:38
  I come from L.
• 47:39
  A.
• 47:39
  Back there.
• 47:40
  It was all automatic.
• 47:41
  You wanted an automatic because you don't want to be in traffic
• 47:44
  working that clutch all the time.
• 47:46
  But the 4 56 is just under the radar.
• 47:48
  It has little inherent problems, but they're all fixable.
• 47:52
  They're all very, very fixable.
• 47:54
  And once you fix them.
• 47:55
  From what I understand, you've got a pretty bulletproof car.
• 47:58
  And in terms of being part of the Ferrari family, they're super, super cheap.
• 48:01
  There's your odd ball for Ferrari.
• 48:03
  I guess you have a three 48 is kind of an odd ball too.
• 48:06
  That I think slips away from even the three 55.
• 48:09
  It's almost like the three 48 is kind of the forgotten little V8 child.
• 48:13
  The four 56 is kind of the same thing.
• 48:15
  Now going back.
• 48:17
  To the Pontiac, the Overbills, etc.
• 48:19
  Where's that 326 HO?
• 48:21
  What, what, what is that?
• 48:22
  You mean the GTO?
• 48:23
  No, no, no, no, no, no.
• 48:25
  It was the Tempest 326 HO.
• 48:27
  Nobody knows what this is.
• 48:29
  But you know, when you look closely, good old GM.
• 48:32
  It's going to have a brother and that brother is going to
• 48:34
  be something from Chevrolet.
• 48:36
  Oh, could it be a Malibu?
• 48:39
  Could it be a Chevelle?
• 48:40
  A Malibu with a big butt?
• 48:41
  We don't know.
• 48:42
  You just really have to start digging if you're not going to go pay the high
• 48:44
  dollar for a Trans Am or the high dollar for a Camaro Z28, something like that.
• 48:50
  Maybe I'm wrong because I've been watching the Trans Am, the prices
• 48:54
  are going up, but I think they're still in the shadow of Camaro.
• 48:57
  I think you're still getting a bargain for what you get with
• 49:00
  the Trans Am with the Firebird.
• 49:01
  And you think about it out of the gate, they were marketed
• 49:04
  to a more upscale crowd.
• 49:07
  So they had a few more amenities.
• 49:09
  They had a few more little niceties to them that made them just a
• 49:12
  little nicer than the Camaros.
• 49:15
  That makes any sense whatsoever.
• 49:16
  So, as we've said before on this show, as the music changes, so do the cars.
• 49:21
  Music changed in the mid 70s into the height of disco, so came the malaise era.
• 49:26
  Don, would you like to briefly define for folks that might be hearing this term for
• 49:30
  the first time what exactly that means?
• 49:32
  You know, honestly, I have trouble defining it.
• 49:34
  I really do, because I own all of them.
• 49:36
  To me, they're mainstream cars, man.
• 49:38
  I knock him.
• 49:39
  I drive him every day.
• 49:39
  I thought it was French for shit.
• 49:41
  Isn't that ? Am I did, did I read that wrong?
• 49:44
  Uh, you're probably correct.
• 49:45
  You're probably correct.
• 49:46
  It's resume.
• 49:47
  That's what resume.
• 49:48
  It's French for, shit.
• 49:49
  resume.
• 49:50
  Yeah.
• 49:51
  That being said, it covers the period between, what is it, 76 and like 82 or 83.
• 49:57
  Right.
• 49:58
  Let me just 70, 73 for American Cars.
• 50:01
  Let me just bring it around the corner to you.
• 50:04
  Anything.
• 50:05
  Built in the era of Corinthian leather.
• 50:07
  Oh, nice.
• 50:08
  The Mala Cup,
• 50:12
  , speaking, which I, I really think the Cordoba is the one that kicked that off.
• 50:15
  I, I really do.
• 50:16
  And when you start talking Cordoba, it's like, okay, that's it.
• 50:19
  We're going out for cheap drinks and cheap, what do they call polyester suits?
• 50:23
  You know?
• 50:24
  I mean that's, that's what it's all about.
• 50:25
  My family, my leisure suit is legit.
• 50:28
  There's so much blah.
• 50:30
  But so much kind of awesome during this period, because these are the,
• 50:35
  I think the most unloved cars on the planet, like across every brand, like
• 50:40
  everybody went through this period of just like, it's like the dark ages.
• 50:44
  The most important thing on the Malaysia is going to be what state you
• 50:48
  live in and what emissions regulation control framework do you live under?
• 50:52
  Because if you can just rip all the reverse vacuum crap out and get away with
• 50:57
  that, then you can have some really cool.
• 51:00
  Really awesome cars.
• 51:01
  Like if you're in California, like skip ahead in the podcast,
• 51:05
  just go like forward 10 minutes.
• 51:07
  That applies to all vehicles except for the Mustang too.
• 51:10
  I just want to highlight that.
• 51:14
  That is not good anywhere.
• 51:16
  Some good ones, not all.
• 51:17
  Oh, man, two men.
• 51:20
  I just say anything that's good enough for Farrah Fawcett is good enough for me.
• 51:25
  Okay.
• 51:25
  That's all including Vietnamese anti aircraft guns.
• 51:30
  This is also the era where these unloved cars also picked up
• 51:34
  notoriety and fame through Hollywood.
• 51:37
  If you think about it, there's more cars from this era that are showcased
• 51:41
  in TV and film than probably any other.
• 51:44
  If you remember, if you go back to I Dream of Jeannie, which is 60s.
• 51:48
  They all had Pontiacs in that show.
• 51:49
  If you watch Bewitched, it was all Chevrolet.
• 51:52
  You know, it's all about product placement.
• 51:54
  And yeah, that kind of had its beginnings right there in the 60s.
• 51:58
  But yeah, in the 70s, they hit it hard.
• 52:00
  They really had to, you know, to Mark's point, if you lived in
• 52:03
  California, just skip over and go, because they had so many restrictions.
• 52:07
  New York, I think, was the same way.
• 52:09
  You know, one reason I love these cars, a lot of people ask me about the Caprice.
• 52:13
  In fact, one of my wife's friends asked me straight up at dinner one night.
• 52:17
  So, your Caprice.
• 52:19
  Yeah.
• 52:20
  Why do you have that car?
• 52:21
  You know, I mean, it was, it was just a ban, you know, there
• 52:24
  was no sugar coating at all.
• 52:25
  And for me, it was out of your dirty mouth lady.
• 52:32
  And on that note, come on, it was a Will Smith reference.
• 52:36
  Come on.
• 52:38
  One cocktail, one cocktail, one half of the groaning guy, man.
• 52:42
  And just so you know, I'm drinking coffee.
• 52:44
  So if I start talking more and more fast, you can just, Do this and I'll understand.
• 52:48
  Okay.
• 52:49
  But now one reason I love those cars.
• 52:51
  And this, this sounds like some sort of cop out, I guess.
• 52:53
  And I don't mean it to, I really, really do admire these cars from this era.
• 52:57
  We went from four 55, four 26, four 27, all these wonderful engines having
• 53:03
  billions of horsepower to the four 55 was reduced to 230 horsepower.
• 53:09
  I mean, it was just pathetic, but.
• 53:13
  Remember, they had to adjust the way they were taking their horsepower figures,
• 53:17
  they could no longer rate it from the flywheel, they had to rate it from the
• 53:22
  wheels, so that lowered everything.
• 53:24
  Then, you had the lower compression, then you had the gas, then you had this.
• 53:28
  Those cars to me are like the lab rats, you know, to me, they're like the heroes
• 53:32
  of the animal kingdom, because these are the ones who, you know, we don't
• 53:36
  have horsepower, we can't go fast.
• 53:38
  Yeah.
• 53:38
  Smoking a bandit is hysterical to me because he's doing burnouts and
• 53:42
  he's doing this and he's doing that.
• 53:44
  That car does not move like a Lamborghini.
• 53:46
  I'm sorry, it just does not.
• 53:48
  And if you've driven one, you know, the first time I drove and it was beautiful.
• 53:51
  It was a 78.
• 53:52
  It was a full bandit package car.
• 53:55
  Eric, you know, my Fiat, the guy wanted to trade for my Fiat.
• 53:58
  That was his thought plus cash.
• 54:01
  And I, you know, I'm thinking, oh my God, this is my shot to get a Trans
• 54:04
  Am, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
• 54:05
  I drove it and I remember thinking, okay, so it's a little bit quicker than my Fiat.
• 54:09
  And I'm gonna get a lot worse gas mileage.
• 54:12
  I gotta tell you too, and I hate admitting this because I do love Trans Ams.
• 54:16
  You close the door, it sounds like a busboy lost his tray.
• 54:19
  The T Tops, the guy admitted to me, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, don't bring
• 54:22
  it out in the range of the T Tops, they're gonna leak like a sim.
• 54:25
  Oh, my Fiat is a full convertible, it doesn't leak.
• 54:27
  Seriously, it doesn't leak.
• 54:29
  And no, my Fiat does not leak oil, but his leak that where the engine and the
• 54:33
  transmission come together, there's a main rear main seal, rear main seal.
• 54:37
  So I was going to have to fix that at some point.
• 54:38
  I'm thinking, Holy cow, this poor car is just a beast, you know?
• 54:42
  So needless to say, the Fiat is still with me.
• 54:45
  My point is this is where we started going from substance to style, big screaming
• 54:50
  chicken, and let's take your Torino.
• 54:53
  You know, you like the muscle one.
• 54:54
  You're like the one in Clint Eastwood's movie.
• 54:56
  And I love that car too, but that car can lay it down pretty authoritatively.
• 55:00
  Starsky and Hutch was another funny show because there's no way
• 55:04
  that Torino could have done half the stuff that it wanted to do.
• 55:07
  It had a lot of stuff.
• 55:09
  You had the wood grain dashboard.
• 55:11
  You had the beautiful grain of the vinyl seats.
• 55:16
  You had a vinyl top.
• 55:17
  You had all these wonderful things.
• 55:18
  Why?
• 55:19
  Because we can't give you a horsepower, so we're gonna give you not only the malaise.
• 55:23
  You know, it's funny, whenever I write about these cars, I love
• 55:26
  calling them the Baroque period.
• 55:28
  , because you have so much baroque going on.
• 55:32
  It's a thickness, it's a heaviness.
• 55:34
  It, you know, it's like you're, you're in some sort of a Frank Cannon TV show
• 55:38
  and everybody's dressed in these drapes.
• 55:40
  It, it just broke.
• 55:41
  I'll shut up.
• 55:42
  Did say broke.
• 55:42
  I know that's what you guys want me to do.
• 55:44
  Broke for sure.
• 55:45
  Brad broke for.
• 55:46
  broke.
• 55:47
  He actually started.
• 55:48
  The direction was going to luxury.
• 55:51
  Luxury was where they were emphasizing.
• 55:53
  Look at the Corvettes in the late seventies.
• 55:54
  There were dogs, but they're becoming more collectible.
• 55:57
  There's a certain thing about them.
• 55:58
  You're saying there's a certain feel you get about him that I guess
• 56:02
  that it's a charming thing about it.
• 56:03
  I got to learn how to talk more succinctly like him.
• 56:06
  But I have to agree with Rob because I have grown a newfound
• 56:12
  appreciation for the C3 Corvettes.
• 56:15
  It has to do with something he said earlier, which is
• 56:18
  people modifying the cars.
• 56:19
  And in stock trim, I'm not a big fan of the C3.
• 56:22
  I think it's plain, especially the long with the long butt
• 56:25
  versus the Bob tail 427s.
• 56:27
  Those were cool.
• 56:28
  So you look at the long tail cars, And I've grown more attracted to them because
• 56:33
  people are doing things like removing the Chrome or lowering them or using modern
• 56:38
  wheels and adding modern touches to them.
• 56:41
  And now it's like, that's a cool car.
• 56:43
  Like that's really neat.
• 56:45
  Yes.
• 56:45
  It's still 6.
• 56:46
  6 liters of 200 horsepower of awesome.
• 56:49
  Not, but, but you can fix that with modern technology.
• 56:53
  You know, you put a sniper on there from Holly and suddenly
• 56:57
  you wake that thing up, right.
• 56:58
  Or, or whatever cams and exhaust, and you're making 500 horsepower
• 57:02
  out of a motor that made 180.
• 57:04
  You said, you know, it was like this and that, and the animal kingdom
• 57:07
  and everything between, I hate to say these cars were neutered.
• 57:10
  That's really the term is they were.
• 57:12
  So it's unfortunate.
• 57:14
  Everybody did it.
• 57:15
  But the problem is, Your big four barrel 6.
• 57:18
  6 liter Trans Am going down the highway got roasted by the 1100 cc Honda CVCC
• 57:25
  precursor to the Civic or a GTI or all these hot hatchbacks that were suddenly
• 57:30
  showing up in the later part of that era.
• 57:33
  So.
• 57:33
  Now it's like apples and chainsaws when we're talking about the
• 57:36
  malaise period, because there's, there's so much to choose from.
• 57:39
  What's considered a collector during this period, right?
• 57:42
  A lot of, a lot of it's junk.
• 57:44
  And the car that wasn't the malaise car, the nine 30 turbo, which you
• 57:48
  used to be able to get 70s, nine 30.
• 57:51
  For under 50 grand, no problem.
• 57:52
  I feel horrible.
• 57:53
  I had my friend's dad try to sell me his 1977 930 turbo for 25 grand like
• 57:59
  10 years ago and I feel like a complete moron that I didn't just buy it.
• 58:05
  But you know what ruined the 930 but also helped the 930 at the same time because
• 58:09
  you saw a drastic price increase in those cars even when they were available
• 58:13
  was the introduction of the slant nose.
• 58:15
  Because suddenly everybody wanted one because the slant nose was
• 58:18
  the coolest thing on the block.
• 58:20
  Nobody had ever seen anything like that before.
• 58:22
  Yeah.
• 58:22
  I mean, yes.
• 58:23
  If you looked at that within the context of the timeline, but like, I mean, you
• 58:26
  can look at the nine 30 turbo prices.
• 58:28
  I'm bringing trailer the price history that goes back.
• 58:30
  Some of the best ones depends on your definition.
• 58:32
  Best.
• 58:32
  You could absolutely pick up a set of malaise era, late seventies,
• 58:36
  mid late seventies, nine 30, that had a slant nose kid on it.
• 58:40
  And somebody had just coped out in the eighties or nineties.
• 58:44
  But then obviously precipitously dropped in value.
• 58:47
  You can see price transactions in just two years ago in 2020, 2019 of those things
• 58:54
  going for 46 for, you know, 48, 000.
• 58:57
  But the market recently is really controlled.
• 59:00
  I mean, it's, it's, it's 80 grand.
• 59:02
  I mean, there's some amazing cars from that era.
• 59:06
  If you look in Europe and other places, and I was talking about
• 59:10
  you leave Detroit, you'll be okay.
• 59:12
  Yeah, yeah.
• 59:14
  . So you know, and I was talking about nine 20 eights.
• 59:16
  I bought a 9, 19 85, 9 28, and I drove it 175,000 miles and it was my daily driver.
• 59:23
  Its cost of operation was less than a Honda Civic.
• 59:26
  I actually costed it out and that is.
• 59:29
  It's a hand built supercar.
• 59:32
  It had a Mercedes.
• 59:33
  That was the first year of the 32 valves in America?
• 59:36
  Yes.
• 59:37
  Yes.
• 59:37
  Yeah.
• 59:38
  Very good.
• 59:38
  Well done.
• 59:39
  Five liter.
• 59:40
  And, um.
• 59:41
  Yeah.
• 59:41
  They didn't get that in Europe for a few years.
• 59:42
  Yeah.
• 59:43
  I had an automatic, so it was a transaxle.
• 59:46
  It was a Mercedes Benz unit in the back.
• 59:48
  I could fit two bicycles in the back, make Costco runs.
• 59:51
  Leather seating, powerful, made all the right noises, drove like a
• 59:56
  dream and I recently had a chance, uh, I'm friends with Keith Martin.
• 1:00:00
  He bought one down it and I flew down and picked it up and drove it up the coast
• 1:00:04
  and fell in love with it all over again.
• 1:00:07
  It's, you can get one of those for 20 grand.
• 1:00:10
  And Get a good one.
• 1:00:12
  Make sure you've got someone that you can take it to who really knows what
• 1:00:15
  they're talking about with those.
• 1:00:17
  And they are bulletproof because they were built to replace the 911.
• 1:00:21
  They were horribly over engineered.
• 1:00:23
  Their oil changes.
• 1:00:24
  The recommended service was every 6, 000 miles, every 10, 000 kilometers.
• 1:00:28
  They over engineered this thing.
• 1:00:30
  So it really lasts.
• 1:00:31
  It's a solid car.
• 1:00:33
  You know, I can't emphasize enough.
• 1:00:34
  It was completely hand built in a supercar.
• 1:00:36
  And I remember seeing him on the cover of road and track.
• 1:00:38
  And when I picked one up for 13, 000, I couldn't believe my luck and amazing.
• 1:00:45
  The thing about that lineage, right?
• 1:00:47
  Because everybody, you know, nowadays likes to say, well,
• 1:00:50
  the nine 24 is a Porsche.
• 1:00:51
  Sure.
• 1:00:52
  Cause it's got a badge in the hood, but it was supposed to be a Volkswagen
• 1:00:55
  and then politics got in the way.
• 1:00:57
  And then it evolved 28, and so on.
• 1:01:00
  The thing about it is The 9.
• 1:01:02
  28 came way before any of those, by the way.
• 1:01:04
  It was in the early 70s, yeah.
• 1:01:06
  Yeah, the bastard metamorphosis of the pacer, right?
• 1:01:09
  Let's say where the 9.
• 1:01:11
  28 got its inspiration from.
• 1:01:12
  That aside That aside That aside, what I'm getting at here is They
• 1:01:20
  share a lot of parts with Volkswagens.
• 1:01:23
  So the people that had 944s, as an example, that kept them affordable,
• 1:01:28
  that didn't become the mechanic's dream, and you were paying their
• 1:01:30
  mortgage through every week you needed to take them to shop, you started
• 1:01:33
  to realize, well, hey, this part can be cross matched on a Scirocco.
• 1:01:36
  Which is the same part on a rabbit.
• 1:01:39
  And it's this and that, or, Oh, this one's off a dasher, like all this weird
• 1:01:42
  stuff, because they grabbed from the same parts bin, like I know they try to play
• 1:01:46
  off today, the common platform and all this stuff between VW Porsche and Audi
• 1:01:50
  that's been going on for a very long time.
• 1:01:53
  So to your point, the nine 28 can be really affordable when you
• 1:01:57
  understand that part of that motor is derived from a Volkswagen, right.
• 1:02:01
  And all these other parts come from different places.
• 1:02:03
  There are things that are used.
• 1:02:04
  It's true.
• 1:02:04
  It's right.
• 1:02:06
  You're exactly correct on 948 is a kind of its own beast, but it
• 1:02:12
  isn't as expensive to maintain.
• 1:02:14
  I think that's the real point.
• 1:02:16
  And the parts are pretty plentiful.
• 1:02:18
  There's a lot of great suppliers.
• 1:02:19
  They sold a lot of them.
• 1:02:20
  I mean, it was supposed to be the next big GT car, right?
• 1:02:23
  It was supposed to be.
• 1:02:24
  Like I said, replace them.
• 1:02:24
  20 years.
• 1:02:26
  It's been stolen for almost 20 years, 77 to 94 or something.
• 1:02:30
  I mean, it's a long time.
• 1:02:31
  Well, you got to think too, as a marketing standpoint, the 928 suddenly lured people
• 1:02:37
  who might have gone to Mercedes or BMW.
• 1:02:39
  All of a sudden, they're going to a Porsche because they have a proper GT car.
• 1:02:44
  This is a car you can take to the country club.
• 1:02:46
  This is a car you can take to the boss's party and not look like you're some
• 1:02:50
  sort of rebel rouser The 928 really opened up a whole new door for Porsche.
• 1:02:56
  Frankly, I thought it was the best Porsche that was ever made.
• 1:02:58
  I really did kind of going back a little bit by naming off the 930,
• 1:03:04
  the 928, and even the little 944, 924, let's take that Malaise era.
• 1:03:09
  You've got some bright spots.
• 1:03:11
  Take my little Baroque cars, like your Cordobas, like your Caprices, whatever.
• 1:03:16
  Those are okay.
• 1:03:17
  They are what define the Malaise era.
• 1:03:20
  But then you have these bright spots that were born, like your 928,
• 1:03:23
  like your 944, like your 930 Turbo.
• 1:03:26
  These were cars that came out and blew people's minds.
• 1:03:29
  They were, whoa, wait, wait, wait.
• 1:03:30
  You got a Porsche that does 0 to 60 in five.
• 1:03:33
  Come on, who does 0 to 60 in 5?
• 1:03:35
  My Trans Am takes 10 seconds.
• 1:03:37
  Well, yeah, that's because it is what it is, you know, where the bright spots
• 1:03:41
  in the Malaysia era and going back to the main point, if you're buying a first
• 1:03:44
  collector car, we can't really in good conscience say, Oh, yeah, yeah, go ahead.
• 1:03:47
  Go go buy a 930.
• 1:03:49
  Oh, yeah, you know, pop out 100 grand, 200 grand, whatever they're going for.
• 1:03:52
  Now, the 928, I think is a great place to go.
• 1:03:56
  Because again, bias, I love that car.
• 1:03:59
  But it is one of those bright spots.
• 1:04:00
  You know, this is going way to the extreme.
• 1:04:03
  Kuntosh was born right at the beginning of the Mali's era.
• 1:04:07
  Look at them now.
• 1:04:08
  One of my other recommendations, like for the, what should I buy
• 1:04:12
  is a Lotus Esprit, a Lotus Esprit.
• 1:04:17
  The early ones are.
• 1:04:18
  Pretty cheap still.
• 1:04:19
  They're like 25 K and they look, they have Kuntosh S looks.
• 1:04:24
  I mean, I think they're all that box.
• 1:04:26
  They're like a baby Kuntosh James Bond one.
• 1:04:28
  And the other one that I really love out of this era, that is really affordable
• 1:04:32
  and probably one of my top picks for people who are looking for like
• 1:04:36
  something to have an experience of a collector and classic car is a gen one.
• 1:04:41
  RX seven, they came out in the late seventies.
• 1:04:44
  Those were.
• 1:04:46
  Cool cars.
• 1:04:46
  I think it's still a great design today.
• 1:04:49
  The rotary engine, they're really weird, but man, they rip, they are cool.
• 1:04:54
  They sound cool.
• 1:04:56
  They are fun.
• 1:04:57
  Get a good one and you can get a good one for under 10 K.
• 1:05:00
  You will get the full experience and you'll show up at cars and coffee and
• 1:05:05
  you'll have lots of people talking to you.
• 1:05:07
  Absolutely.
• 1:05:08
  Seek out the bright spots.
• 1:05:09
  You know, I can talk about Cordova all day long, but what were the bright spots?
• 1:05:13
  What were those little glimmering, you know, moments of, you
• 1:05:16
  know, you brought up the RX 7.
• 1:05:17
  Holy cow, what a car that was.
• 1:05:19
  I mean, that was just bam.
• 1:05:21
  There's style, there's flash, there's power.
• 1:05:24
  What a great car.
• 1:05:25
  It's a little cheating.
• 1:05:26
  It's a little cheating in the sense that we're like when we're doing 90s
• 1:05:29
  cars, realizing that some of the best.
• 1:05:32
  90s cars were made in 2000, 2001, 2002.
• 1:05:36
  And some of the best eighties cars were made in 79.
• 1:05:39
  It's like, you can pull in the sob turbo.
• 1:05:41
  You can pull in the RX seven.
• 1:05:43
  You, I mean, but those are eighties car spiritually.
• 1:05:46
  I agree with that.
• 1:05:47
  I have a hard time counting a first gen RX seven as a malaise car.
• 1:05:52
  It's 77, man, like 1977.
• 1:05:55
  That's the high.
• 1:05:55
  Yeah, but there's this 79, 79.
• 1:05:59
  It's the bright spots.
• 1:06:00
  Look for the bright spots on being positive.
• 1:06:03
  I want to argue.
• 1:06:06
  Two men enter 75, 79.
• 1:06:09
  Buick is when they came out with the regal turbo.
• 1:06:12
  Which eventually ran, became the Grand National.
• 1:06:17
  And that was the fastest car, fastest in the Corvette in 1986.
• 1:06:20
  And that builds perfectly, Mark, on what you were saying.
• 1:06:23
  Some of the cars from the 80s came from the 70s.
• 1:06:25
  Some of the cars from the 90s came from the 80s.
• 1:06:28
  There's that Buick that popped up.
• 1:06:29
  Yeah, all of a sudden it became an 80s icon with the Grand
• 1:06:32
  National and of course the GNX.
• 1:06:34
  You know, everyone knee jerk reacts to Grand National, and that's fine.
• 1:06:38
  Then there's the T Type, the little brother.
• 1:06:40
  Nobody even knows about the LeSabre T Type.
• 1:06:43
  And it's a turbocharged T Type.
• 1:06:45
  It had the little Grand National logo on it.
• 1:06:48
  It was all blacked out.
• 1:06:49
  It was just a bigger, more luxurious car.
• 1:06:52
  But this is a car that could still hustle from zero to 60 and right
• 1:06:56
  around six and a half seconds.
• 1:06:58
  Now, I don't care who you're talking to six and a half seconds in the early,
• 1:07:01
  mid eighties, damn, that's moving.
• 1:07:04
  And you're talking about a big grandpa Buick.
• 1:07:06
  Don, I thought you were going to go at one.
• 1:07:08
  Point, you know, it's the height of the malaise era.
• 1:07:10
  Maybe mention cars like the Stutz Bearcat.
• 1:07:13
  I mean, you can't get classier than that.
• 1:07:16
  , who doesn't even love those cars?
• 1:07:18
  Those are the best.
• 1:07:19
  And I'll tell you something, the la not that anybody cares.
• 1:07:21
  I know.
• 1:07:21
  Here I go again.
• 1:07:22
  Me and my Elvis crap.
• 1:07:23
  But.
• 1:07:24
  The last photograph taken of Elvis Presley was him driving into his
• 1:07:27
  estate in his black Stutz Bearcat.
• 1:07:30
  I mean, there's something to be said about that.
• 1:07:32
  They were the height of the Malays, you're right.
• 1:07:34
  They were the absolute gaudiest, most baroque car you could possibly have.
• 1:07:39
  The gauges were gold for crying out loud, you know.
• 1:07:42
  The trunk, Was fully lined in shag carpeting that matched your interior.
• 1:07:48
  I mean, it went on and on and on with these cars.
• 1:07:50
  Were they fast?
• 1:07:51
  Were they quick?
• 1:07:52
  No, they were typical GM body Monte Carlo's.
• 1:07:56
  I mean, they weren't anything special.
• 1:07:57
  They were wheezing their way to 30 miles an hour and you felt good when
• 1:08:00
  you got there and yet today people still like to make fun of them, but
• 1:08:04
  they're slowly coming into their own.
• 1:08:06
  And what I think is funny about that.
• 1:08:07
  The people I see who are most interested in them are in their
• 1:08:10
  late twenties, early thirties.
• 1:08:12
  I'm blown away by that.
• 1:08:13
  It's not guys my age.
• 1:08:14
  I would love to have one, but I'm weird, but everybody I see who's
• 1:08:18
  really interested in those cars, late twenties, early thirties,
• 1:08:21
  or maybe up to the mid thirties.
• 1:08:23
  And that blows me away when you ask them, what is it about that car that you like?
• 1:08:27
  And it's just what you said, Eric.
• 1:08:29
  Oh, it epitomizes that era.
• 1:08:32
  They're buying them.
• 1:08:33
  Ironically.
• 1:08:34
  I think they are.
• 1:08:36
  I think you're right.
• 1:08:37
  Chris, I aspire to be a pimp.
• 1:08:40
  So, I don't know if you know this, but pimping ain't easy.
• 1:08:45
  I actually got to see one in person at the Peterson on a recent
• 1:08:49
  visit and it's down in the vault.
• 1:08:50
  And you know, I've always had a visit, a urinal,
• 1:08:55
  but I will say this, it is gaudy in picture.
• 1:08:59
  And it's ostentatious in person.
• 1:09:01
  You're just like, wow, this thing is ridiculous.
• 1:09:04
  And when you consider that car, I mean, pick a year that it would bill.
• 1:09:08
  Let's just grab 1976, 70, 000, 70, 000 in 1976.
• 1:09:16
  Yeah.
• 1:09:16
  You had to be Elvis Presley to afford this thing.
• 1:09:18
  You were the only one who could afford it.
• 1:09:20
  Yeah.
• 1:09:20
  I mean, it's astonishing the money that those cars commanded.
• 1:09:24
  And isn't it funny that if I'm not mistaken, you know, Those cars were
• 1:09:27
  assembled in much of the way the Cadillac Elantra was put together.
• 1:09:31
  They were assembled here, sent over there, assembled over there, then
• 1:09:35
  sent back here and they were sold.
• 1:09:36
  I mean, that's a lot of money to be flying those cars back and forth.
• 1:09:40
  Now the Stutz is something else.
• 1:09:41
  It really is.
• 1:09:42
  That car was something else and it was, you're right, it was the height
• 1:09:44
  of the And they're cheap, you know, when you really think about it,
• 1:09:49
  they're not all that much money.
• 1:09:50
  I have one where I can add no sales on brain trailer.
• 1:09:54
  There's only one Italian car from this era that sticks out.
• 1:09:57
  Well, actually two, I will take that back.
• 1:09:59
  One is the super plain Jane.
• 1:10:02
  It's the Fiat one 31 and not the rally version of the Abarth.
• 1:10:06
  It's the plain Jane one.
• 1:10:07
  If you dress that thing up, it's actually really cool.
• 1:10:10
  Cool.
• 1:10:11
  People, ironically, to Chris's point, would probably think it's a Lada
• 1:10:14
  because it's the other way around, you know, they copied the Fiat's.
• 1:10:18
  But the other one that's understated was sold in United States and people
• 1:10:23
  might remember from the Herbie Goes to Monte Carlo movie is the launch
• 1:10:28
  of Beta Monte Carlo from 1978.
• 1:10:30
  I personally love that car.
• 1:10:32
  It's that just miniature Ferrari, right?
• 1:10:34
  It's more affordable.
• 1:10:36
  It is more obscure.
• 1:10:37
  It has a pretty decent following.
• 1:10:39
  I'm sure Chris can probably back me up on that, but it's a looker and
• 1:10:42
  it has that almost DeLorean kind of front end with the panda bear two tone
• 1:10:47
  grill and body work thing going on.
• 1:10:49
  I think they're neat.
• 1:10:50
  They don't appeal to me.
• 1:10:51
  I like the other launches, like the launch of Delta that
• 1:10:54
  comes along a little bit later.
• 1:10:56
  Which we can get to, it's on my list, but.
• 1:10:58
  Absolutely.
• 1:10:59
  So we might as well dive head first into the 80s, right?
• 1:11:01
  Let's do it.
• 1:11:02
  The music changed yet again.
• 1:11:03
  I'm there for it.
• 1:11:04
  What era is the 80s?
• 1:11:06
  We're, we're the digital era now.
• 1:11:07
  That's where we are, at the beginnings of the digital era.
• 1:11:10
  When I look at the 80s, and again, I'm kind of going to focus more on the
• 1:11:13
  foreign, but I would say the C4 Corvette.
• 1:11:17
  Yes.
• 1:11:19
  I'm a big fan.
• 1:11:19
  That's my favorite Corvette bodies.
• 1:11:21
  I just, I really think that's a, It's a little plainer, but you know the
• 1:11:25
  things that I like out of the, and these are still reasonably affordable.
• 1:11:30
  It's like the Acura NSX.
• 1:11:32
  What a car!
• 1:11:33
  Came out in the 80s.
• 1:11:35
  Formula One heritage.
• 1:11:36
  That's when Honda was kicking ass in Formula One.
• 1:11:40
  Really complex and interesting engines.
• 1:11:43
  I think they look great.
• 1:11:45
  They're creeping up around 40 now, but that's a lot of car for $40,000.
• 1:11:50
  I mean, a lot of car and I, I'd get one of those any day of the week, like
• 1:11:55
  a notch down from that is the lunch.
• 1:11:57
  Uh, Delta Intergra, which is a hot hatch, one of the early hot hatches.
• 1:12:02
  Really cool rally cars.
• 1:12:04
  Very cool engine.
• 1:12:06
  You don't have to buy the HF Integrale.
• 1:12:08
  You can buy the eight valve or some of the other ones like Chris Harris just
• 1:12:11
  bought one as a daily driver and you don't need all the extra bluff and bluster.
• 1:12:16
  You can buy a plain Jane one like we've been talking about
• 1:12:18
  and they're just as fun.
• 1:12:19
  I think he said he spent like 8000 euros for it.
• 1:12:22
  I mean, what a car for that kind of money, that's a very cool and very special car.
• 1:12:28
  So I'm all over that type of thinking, you know, getting those,
• 1:12:32
  uh, those 8, 000 cars in it.
• 1:12:33
  And I mentioned it kind of at the top of the show, but look at those
• 1:12:36
  Alfa Romeos from that era, the GTV six, the Milano's and the 75s.
• 1:12:41
  I mean, They might not be as beautiful in terms of their design or aesthetic.
• 1:12:47
  Like they may not like totally catch your eye, but there's a lot of car under there.
• 1:12:50
  And if you want to spruce them up, you can put some kits on there to
• 1:12:55
  make them look like rally cars or some of the touring car series.
• 1:12:58
  Like they ate that series up.
• 1:13:00
  They were some of the hottest cars back then.
• 1:13:02
  So they've got a cool racing lineage.
• 1:13:04
  So, you know, the NSX though, I think out of this two, You're from
• 1:13:08
  an affordability entry way into like a really, those are exotic cars.
• 1:13:13
  I thought we were doing eighties.
• 1:13:14
  And it was sold in America in 1990.
• 1:13:17
  That's true.
• 1:13:17
  It did come out in the 90s.
• 1:13:19
  I thought they came out in Japan.
• 1:13:21
  In Japan first.
• 1:13:23
  All right.
• 1:13:23
  Well, I'm up.
• 1:13:25
  I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm just going to give you a hard time.
• 1:13:27
  Your RX 7?
• 1:13:29
  Not good enough.
• 1:13:31
  Not good enough.
• 1:13:32
  I hate you.
• 1:13:33
  I'm going home.
• 1:13:36
  Eric, I think you've got to give Chris and Mark a show.
• 1:13:39
  Yeah, he got a good Chris and Marcus show because that's right there.
• 1:13:42
  People would pay to see that one behind the scenes on Patreon for sure.
• 1:13:46
  But I'll say this, there are a couple of cars that springboard me into the eighties
• 1:13:50
  and they're not what you're thinking.
• 1:13:51
  And I'll just throw these out there and look for some church nods as collector
• 1:13:55
  cars, the Ford Capri and the Opel Manta.
• 1:13:59
  Also kind of forgotten cars because they're European cars sold here, you
• 1:14:03
  know, Ford people go forward, Ford, it's not the same Ford UK versus for
• 1:14:06
  Germany versus the U S I think those are cool cars, but we are getting into
• 1:14:10
  the boxy cars with round headlights era, which are starting to catch on.
• 1:14:14
  And I have to pose this question, the Mark one GTI, is it a classic
• 1:14:18
  or is it still just a shit box?
• 1:14:20
  Classic.
• 1:14:21
  It has to be a classic.
• 1:14:22
  You know how much a Mark 1 GTI goes for now?
• 1:14:26
  It's insane these days.
• 1:14:27
  Too much.
• 1:14:28
  I mean, I'm not going to buy one.
• 1:14:30
  You know how much they were going for?
• 1:14:31
  You know how much it costs to buy a decent one now?
• 1:14:34
  But when you, I know, and I've seen them on Bring a Trailer, but here's
• 1:14:37
  the thing being VW, Porsche, Audi family, I get into an original GTI
• 1:14:43
  and it does put a smile on my face.
• 1:14:44
  And I walk away from it going, it's still the same shit box.
• 1:14:47
  It was 30 years ago.
• 1:14:49
  It didn't get better with age.
• 1:14:51
  There are better GTIs later.
• 1:14:53
  The Mark II is a thousand times better a car than the Mark I, but
• 1:14:58
  this nostalgia thing is driving the price up of the Mark I's.
• 1:15:02
  I would say the Scirocco is more of a collector car than the GTI is.
• 1:15:06
  I was just going to throw that one out there, man.
• 1:15:08
  That I love those Shiroccos.
• 1:15:10
  I think those are cool cars and they're the same chassis.
• 1:15:14
  I just got to throw it out there.
• 1:15:15
  I had one of the Shiroccos were incredible.
• 1:15:18
  I had a second gen, but the second gens were awesome, but they were still
• 1:15:21
  carry over chassis, unless you had a 16 valve and that's a whole nother story.
• 1:15:25
  A
• 1:15:27
  car that we've kind of overlooked here that I mean, they're
• 1:15:30
  kissing cousins visually.
• 1:15:32
  Uh, I know where you're going.
• 1:15:34
  Oh, where am I going?
• 1:15:35
  I know where you're going.
• 1:15:36
  The Audi coup gt Actually, no, but yes, you're correct.
• 1:15:40
  You're correct.
• 1:15:41
  Yeah.
• 1:15:41
  I, you know, wasn't trying to be nice to you guys.
• 1:15:43
  I'm trying to be nice.
• 1:15:44
  I'm letting you handle what are the time, the Audi VW stuff, you know?
• 1:15:48
  I figure I'll let Chris handle the Italian stuff, you know?
• 1:15:51
  No, where I was gonna go was the Isuzu Impulse, another two Jaro car.
• 1:15:55
  Yep.
• 1:15:56
  Yep.
• 1:15:56
  Yeah, which little, little known fact that was supposed to be the third gen Scirocco
• 1:16:01
  and it was rejected design for Volkswagen.
• 1:16:05
  Mistake, mistake.
• 1:16:07
  I don't know.
• 1:16:07
  The Corrado is a way better car.
• 1:16:09
  Corrado's is the nineties car.
• 1:16:10
  And it was totally one of my nineties recommendations.
• 1:16:14
  Believe me, it came out in 1989 with the G 60, but you know, what?
• 1:16:17
  It was counting.
• 1:16:18
  Don was going to talk about the Shelby GHS.
• 1:16:24
  The, the Chrysler, the Omni, the little Dodge Omni Shelby.
• 1:16:30
  Yeah.
• 1:16:30
  Well, and don't forget, they didn't just do it to the Omni, they also
• 1:16:33
  did it to the little charger.
• 1:16:34
  They had that little fast charger back then.
• 1:16:36
  Yeah.
• 1:16:36
  Yeah.
• 1:16:37
  And then they have the, they have the GLH and then the G-L-H-S-G-L-H
• 1:16:42
  stood for goes like hell.
• 1:16:44
  Right.
• 1:16:45
  The S was goes like hell some more.
• 1:16:47
  So those were the ones that were really modified by Shelby.
• 1:16:49
  What they built.
• 1:16:50
  God, you talk about rare.
• 1:16:51
  They built what?
• 1:16:52
  500 of them?
• 1:16:54
  1500.
• 1:16:55
  You don't see any, you don't see them anymore.
• 1:16:57
  But to your point, there's a lot of cars like that that are sleepers
• 1:17:01
  during this era because the GLHS packed a punch in a small package.
• 1:17:04
  I mean, granted, The base motor was a rabbit engine.
• 1:17:07
  They were collaborating with Volkswagen at that time.
• 1:17:10
  There's a lot of similarities.
• 1:17:12
  There's also cars that people salivate over from that time period that they
• 1:17:16
  don't realize are super rare either.
• 1:17:18
  To your point, 500 GLHS is let's look at the UR Quattro.
• 1:17:22
  Right.
• 1:17:22
  You were talking about the launch of Delta before I owned one of these cars.
• 1:17:26
  We actually had two of them over the years, and they only brought
• 1:17:29
  627 of those to the United States.
• 1:17:32
  So they are ultra rare.
• 1:17:34
  And that was within a three year span.
• 1:17:36
  But you want to original quattro, go get a 4, 000.
• 1:17:39
  They made a billion of those, but if you want something
• 1:17:42
  super cool, go get a quantum.
• 1:17:45
  Synchro station wagon.
• 1:17:48
  That is awesome.
• 1:17:49
  That's a collector car that nobody even thinks about.
• 1:17:52
  And that's an Audi underneath.
• 1:17:53
  Mark is holding his head in his hands going, oh my god.
• 1:17:57
  Is that car really Volkswagen though?
• 1:17:59
  The Quantum was bodied by Carmen and VW like all of them were,
• 1:18:03
  but it's a 4000 underneath.
• 1:18:04
  It's the same power plant, drivetrain, everything.
• 1:18:07
  Okay.
• 1:18:07
  Yeah.
• 1:18:08
  Okay.
• 1:18:08
  Interesting.
• 1:18:09
  And the quantum became the facade.
• 1:18:10
  I don't know why that whole period, the rabbit and the quantum, they
• 1:18:13
  made all these weird names up.
• 1:18:15
  I kind of wish quantum had stuck around, but maybe, maybe the EV
• 1:18:18
  versions we'll, we'll get it.
• 1:18:19
  Shifting, you know, shifting gears here.
• 1:18:21
  And again, one car I really did want to bring up that is just starting again,
• 1:18:26
  as the younger people who are interested in them, the Lincoln mark seven, I know.
• 1:18:30
  Eric, here I go with the Lincolns, but I am a Lincoln junkie.
• 1:18:34
  I love these cars.
• 1:18:35
  The Mark VII was really, really something in this day.
• 1:18:38
  It was introduced late, late 83 for the 1984 market.
• 1:18:41
  If you look at it, it has the flush headlamps.
• 1:18:44
  No other car had the flush headlamps in 1984.
• 1:18:46
  They were not available.
• 1:18:48
  Chrysler will tell you they were the first one to have it.
• 1:18:50
  It's not true.
• 1:18:51
  It was actually Lincoln.
• 1:18:53
  The doors, they were cut into the roof, kind of like a 63 Stingray.
• 1:18:57
  There were all kinds of advancements that.
• 1:19:00
  Mark seven brought to the program, they had a console, they had true bucket seats,
• 1:19:04
  they had a floor shift, you know, this for an American luxury car was really,
• 1:19:08
  really, I mean, frankly put, it was just mind blowing, because here you had
• 1:19:13
  everything people loved about the European car, the bucket seats, the floor shifts,
• 1:19:17
  the doors in the in the roof, the flush headlamps, all these things added up.
• 1:19:22
  Damn, I mean, Lincoln really knocked it out of the park.
• 1:19:24
  And yet, yeah.
• 1:19:25
  Not many people really noticed you were a Lincoln guy or a Ford guy.
• 1:19:28
  You looked at it and said, wow, this is the wave of the future.
• 1:19:32
  And sure enough, if you watch Ford's history, if you watch all American
• 1:19:36
  car history, they followed the Lincoln mark seven and nobody wants
• 1:19:39
  to give that car credit, but that is one hell of a robust car, really
• 1:19:44
  a robust car, five liter engine.
• 1:19:47
  Yeah, they had the five liter, the three Oh two, but for 1984 only, they also
• 1:19:52
  offered a diesel, which was built by BMW.
• 1:19:56
  And that was to meet the cafe standards here.
• 1:19:59
  We're talking about the GLHS as one of 500 or one of 1, 500.
• 1:20:03
  I forget how many they built, but it's the odd ball of the odd ball family.
• 1:20:07
  That BMW diesel six cylinder in the mark seven is always the oddball of the family.
• 1:20:14
  I want to say they did import something like 1500 and it was literally
• 1:20:18
  just to meet whatever the federal government required for cafe standards.
• 1:20:22
  And that was the whole reason they did that.
• 1:20:24
  And the funny thing is they're not worth any more.
• 1:20:27
  In fact, people prefer the 302 because they're more familiar with it.
• 1:20:30
  They can get parts for the five liter.
• 1:20:32
  They don't know what a BMW diesel is.
• 1:20:34
  They're not comfortable with that.
• 1:20:36
  So even though it's much, much more rare.
• 1:20:39
  People don't care could potentially be a collector item, strange and
• 1:20:42
  rare, sometimes equal that person going, well, that's really cool.
• 1:20:45
  And I want to have 12 of those, right?
• 1:20:47
  I think that's something to do with collectibles to as collectors.
• 1:20:51
  One little, uh, trait collectors have is they all want that
• 1:20:55
  something nobody else has.
• 1:20:56
  And that's where these cars start to become popular, like the Lincoln
• 1:21:00
  with the BMW diesel, that Audi, they only imported 532 of them, whatever.
• 1:21:05
  Unless you're an Audi guy, you're not going to know about this thing.
• 1:21:08
  You know, it's just one of those off the radar cars.
• 1:21:10
  And yet, because it's off the radar, you can probably buy one pretty cheaply.
• 1:21:14
  Your Quattro is not so much anymore.
• 1:21:16
  Those have gone.
• 1:21:17
  Way through the roof and see, and that's the funny thing.
• 1:21:21
  The Mark sevens are doing the same thing.
• 1:21:22
  I'm looking at these Mark sevens and they're maybe not like that quattro, but
• 1:21:26
  they are really starting to climb up.
• 1:21:27
  But anyway, I think that is a pretty important car.
• 1:21:30
  And that is a car that actually, when I do meet some younger people
• 1:21:33
  who are interested in buying some sort of a collective car, but
• 1:21:36
  granted I have weird tastes, I'm not into going 500 miles an hour.
• 1:21:39
  I'm not into, you know, I like a car that I can get in, just enjoy.
• 1:21:43
  You know, you, you want to cruise to the beach.
• 1:21:44
  You want to cruise to the mountains.
• 1:21:46
  You want to cruise to your local resort to the car.
• 1:21:48
  You can do it in, um, you know, if I want to have a site, I'll go find an
• 1:21:52
  in law somewhere, you know, So what else is sitting in the eighties that
• 1:21:55
  isn't already considered a collector, things like the UR Quattro, we
• 1:21:58
  already talked about the DeLorean.
• 1:21:59
  It's already really a collector car.
• 1:22:01
  What are some of these wolves and sheep's clothing that are still sitting out?
• 1:22:05
  There that a first time collector could be interested in?
• 1:22:09
  Is there something we're overlooking?
• 1:22:10
  I mean, I, I gave Chris a hard time earlier, but I go back to the 85 9 28
• 1:22:15
  just because it is a really great early example of relatively modern technology
• 1:22:21
  with the 32 valve, five liter V eight.
• 1:22:24
  They are underappreciated, undervalued.
• 1:22:26
  During this time, I wanted to mention to you also that.
• 1:22:29
  Joint ventures started off like Callaway with the Corvette.
• 1:22:32
  There were certain models that were done aftermarket that they brought on.
• 1:22:36
  I think it was a Chrysler had a relationship with Maserati.
• 1:22:39
  They had a, I can't remember the name of the car, but the TC, there you go.
• 1:22:42
  Thank you.
• 1:22:43
  And they didn't use Corinthian leather.
• 1:22:45
  I want to drive one of those.
• 1:22:47
  I've looked at them and those are another underappreciated car, right?
• 1:22:50
  Motor by Maserati, drivetrain by then designed sort of by pinning Farina.
• 1:22:55
  And then Chrysler had their magic in there.
• 1:22:56
  Thanks.
• 1:22:57
  And they came as a manual.
• 1:22:58
  So I'm like, I want to be careful of that though.
• 1:23:01
  Be careful of that.
• 1:23:02
  Cause some of them had, it was the head by Maserati, but the actual engine,
• 1:23:06
  everything else was Chrysler Mitsubishi.
• 1:23:08
  So you want to be careful.
• 1:23:09
  You've got to get the actual one with the head by Maserati.
• 1:23:12
  And the five speed manual transmission.
• 1:23:14
  If you want to go that route building on that one, the Cadillac Elante, that's
• 1:23:19
  kind of coming into its own, but one car that a lot of people forget about the
• 1:23:22
  Buick Riata, the little kind of bathtub thing, I think that's one of those
• 1:23:28
  people are going to wake up and realize, Oh my God, what a cool car this is.
• 1:23:33
  I don't know if it's going to go through the roof and price, but
• 1:23:35
  it is something that's overlooked.
• 1:23:37
  You know, it's in the shadow of the Elante.
• 1:23:39
  It's in the shadow of the TC.
• 1:23:41
  And I don't think Buick people really got into them that much, because it
• 1:23:44
  was kind of out of the Buick scope.
• 1:23:46
  It wasn't what your traditional Buick buyer would go look for in a showroom.
• 1:23:50
  Oh, I'm going to go buy a 2 seater, you know, coupe or a 2 seater convertible.
• 1:23:53
  That's not your traditional Buick buyer.
• 1:23:56
  But I think that's another one.
• 1:23:57
  I would agree.
• 1:23:58
  I would also say the Pontiac Fiero.
• 1:24:00
  Yes.
• 1:24:01
  Brad's favorite car.
• 1:24:03
  And we should have had a Deadpool on how long it took for the Fiero to come up.
• 1:24:07
  Of course, of course.
• 1:24:09
  . Well, I, I, I've got one that's Fiero adjacent but is actually a good car.
• 1:24:14
  And that's the to Toyota MR two.
• 1:24:16
  Yes.
• 1:24:17
  Um, yes.
• 1:24:17
  First gen is, is a great little car.
• 1:24:20
  Cool car, great car.
• 1:24:21
  I mean, if you want a reliable X one nine, that's the thing to buy is a M two.
• 1:24:25
  Yeah.
• 1:24:27
  And you could get it with a factory supercharger as well.
• 1:24:30
  I think that's a great car, but I don't want to crap on the Fiero.
• 1:24:33
  It's like a DeLorean in that I feel like that was a really ambitious and
• 1:24:37
  important car, but not well executed.
• 1:24:40
  The running gear just wasn't as good as it should have been for
• 1:24:43
  what they were trying to do.
• 1:24:44
  I mean, the last couple of years of the Fiero, they really sorted it out.
• 1:24:47
  In the 90s, they got it right.
• 1:24:49
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:24:50
  Well, and let's remember one thing about the Fiero, like I think Mark was
• 1:24:54
  just saying, The last couple of years of Fiero, they were getting it right.
• 1:24:58
  They were getting it so right, in fact, that Chevrolet essentially told
• 1:25:02
  General Motors, you know, this is not the kind of club room we can have
• 1:25:06
  two seater sport cars now, is it?
• 1:25:08
  So Fiero was getting so good that Corvette was starting to
• 1:25:12
  get a little paranoid about it.
• 1:25:13
  You know, it was cheaper, it was fun, it was something everybody could afford.
• 1:25:18
  No, it wasn't going to move like a Corvette yet.
• 1:25:20
  Give it time.
• 1:25:22
  They were working on turbocharging.
• 1:25:23
  They were working on all wheel drive.
• 1:25:25
  So this was going to become an animal of a car.
• 1:25:29
  We're going to get rid of it because sales aren't that good.
• 1:25:31
  Oh yeah, right.
• 1:25:31
  Sure.
• 1:25:32
  Sales aren't that good.
• 1:25:33
  Mind you, it's outselling Corvette like three to one.
• 1:25:35
  There's a lot going on in the eighties, right?
• 1:25:39
  And to the point of the episode we did with Mark, we discovered that
• 1:25:42
  a lot of really great nineties cars Came from the 80s, right?
• 1:25:46
  They were born in the 80s and they made their way like
• 1:25:49
  the Fiero, same kind of deal.
• 1:25:50
  So matured the, exactly.
• 1:25:52
  They matured like fine wines, but one thing we've kind of overlooked,
• 1:25:56
  we talked a lot about Italian cars, talking a lot about domestic cars,
• 1:25:59
  German cars, you know, in there, we, we focus a lot on VW, Porsche.
• 1:26:02
  Porsche, Audi, not a ton of BMW because a lot of BMWs have
• 1:26:05
  already become collector cars.
• 1:26:07
  What we haven't touched on except for that RX 7 and the NSX are Japanese cars.
• 1:26:12
  They were late to blossom.
• 1:26:14
  They were late to the game, right?
• 1:26:15
  It took them a while to get ahead of steam in the eighties.
• 1:26:18
  I think there's some really neat cars in there, but they.
• 1:26:20
  fall into the hot hatch category, like the starlet and the FX 16 and other cars
• 1:26:27
  like that where they're kind of obscure.
• 1:26:29
  And when you see one, you get excited.
• 1:26:31
  You're like, wait, is that a Fiesta?
• 1:26:32
  No.
• 1:26:32
  Oh wait, no, it's not.
• 1:26:33
  It's it's a Corolla.
• 1:26:34
  Right.
• 1:26:35
  But I think they were still coming into their own at that time period,
• 1:26:39
  unless there's something that really jumps out during the eighties.
• 1:26:42
  Other than the 80, 86, I mean, but that's already a collector car.
• 1:26:45
  Well, I, I think one thing we could all say, I, I think we can agree on, you
• 1:26:48
  know, let's face it, BMW, the Ultimate Performance Machine, Dotson Nissan came
• 1:26:53
  out with the Maxima and they started marketing it as the four-door sports car.
• 1:26:57
  And it had the 300 ZDNA, it had the engine, it had a lot
• 1:27:01
  of the chassis components.
• 1:27:03
  It, and if you ever drove a Maxima, any of them.
• 1:27:06
  They really were something else.
• 1:27:08
  They were absolutely amazing cars.
• 1:27:10
  When you pit them against the more expensive BMWs, it was pretty amazing
• 1:27:14
  what a bargain you were getting.
• 1:27:15
  Yeah, I'd like to throw the Maxima out there.
• 1:27:18
  I love Maximas.
• 1:27:19
  I grew up learning to drive on my friend's Ford DST, the little label
• 1:27:23
  they put on the side of all the Maximas.
• 1:27:26
  But front wheel drive, rear wheel drive, it's a little apples
• 1:27:29
  and oranges from a platform perspective, in my humble opinion.
• 1:27:32
  No, you're wrong.
• 1:27:35
  Fair enough, fair enough.
• 1:27:37
  So much good fruit, right?
• 1:27:38
  We've talked about the first gen RX7, you know, I think that
• 1:27:41
  really matured in the eighties.
• 1:27:42
  Obviously, we're going to see the sales volume where you're going to be
• 1:27:44
  able to buy one of those, the Celica.
• 1:27:47
  If you're up for that kind of challenge, I think it could be a lot of fun.
• 1:27:50
  There's one more, and I don't know that it's super desirable yet.
• 1:27:55
  But sort of is part of the reason people shy away from them is because they're
• 1:27:59
  a little strange compared to their cousins, the civic and that's the CRX.
• 1:28:04
  So even though they're very similar vehicles, their DNA
• 1:28:08
  internally is different.
• 1:28:09
  Like some things people don't know their early CRX is the motor spins
• 1:28:12
  backwards and the civic spins the way we all traditionally do it.
• 1:28:15
  There's all these oddities with the CRX and people go after the later
• 1:28:19
  ones, the Gen twos and obviously Their early roach looking civics
• 1:28:23
  that came out in the nineties.
• 1:28:25
  Those are more desirable for autocross and track and things like that.
• 1:28:28
  But those first gen CRXs, they're really kind of awesome cars.
• 1:28:32
  I had the privilege of driving one that was modified for pro solo.
• 1:28:35
  It was a fantastic vehicle and they get forgotten.
• 1:28:38
  Oh yeah.
• 1:28:39
  The CRX forgot about that car goes back to the point of the Japanese
• 1:28:42
  at that time, I think we're still coming into their own and didn't come
• 1:28:45
  into their own until the nineties.
• 1:28:47
  So maybe we need to cross that threshold and now kind of quickly discuss some
• 1:28:51
  of the cars, maybe we didn't talk about during your episode, Mark in the nineties.
• 1:28:55
  Sure.
• 1:28:56
  If I'm giving, you know, legitimate advice, someone getting into this.
• 1:29:00
  Ridiculous hobby.
• 1:29:01
  You do have to kind of think a little bit about goals.
• 1:29:04
  You know, what are your goals to yourself?
• 1:29:05
  Are you getting into this to enjoy a car, but like you ultimately have
• 1:29:09
  some longer term goals, so you want something that is either going to at
• 1:29:13
  the very least hold its value, if not growing value so that you can turn this
• 1:29:18
  around over time and grow the amount of money you're investing in cars.
• 1:29:22
  I personally did that.
• 1:29:24
  You know, I buy a car that either appreciated it or didn't,
• 1:29:26
  at least didn't depreciate.
• 1:29:28
  I paid off.
• 1:29:29
  I take that, I roll it into the next car.
• 1:29:31
  And now I could buy a car that was twice as expensive, you know, from that
• 1:29:34
  perspective, you do have to maybe factor in some of these other considerations.
• 1:29:39
  This is your first car and you have some other kind of more aspirational goals.
• 1:29:44
  Then you do have to think about kind of where the market is
• 1:29:46
  in what's becoming popular.
• 1:29:48
  Then once you get into the nineties.
• 1:29:50
  It's a really interesting market because the nineties teenagers are starting to
• 1:29:55
  come into their peak earning potential from a macroeconomic perspective.
• 1:30:00
  Right.
• 1:30:01
  And so the values of cars traditionally kind of track relative to the earning
• 1:30:05
  potential of the age that that person was 18 years old or whatever.
• 1:30:09
  And so that's why you, you see cars peak and then start to trail off.
• 1:30:13
  You're just starting to get into that.
• 1:30:16
  We've talked about good options.
• 1:30:18
  I kind of personally disagree on, on the nine six eight perspective.
• 1:30:22
  I'd like that car.
• 1:30:24
  I see it as like a really, the most mature nine 44, if you're
• 1:30:27
  not going the turbo route.
• 1:30:29
  So you have to think about how much the car market has changed
• 1:30:32
  in the last couple of years.
• 1:30:33
  You used to be able to pick up that three 48 for below 50 K that four 56.
• 1:30:38
  I think that Don was talking about earlier.
• 1:30:41
  Although any ones that would have been in your 50k range
• 1:30:44
  were automatic 456s, so meh.
• 1:30:47
  If I had to land on a recommendation, your first car collector.
• 1:30:51
  We've talked about it a little bit already.
• 1:30:52
  I really like the Corrado.
• 1:30:54
  It's a very 90s look.
• 1:30:56
  It really is the epitome of the 90s.
• 1:30:59
  You can put some turbo twist wheels on it.
• 1:31:01
  The bolt pattern fits.
• 1:31:05
  It's a cool car.
• 1:31:06
  I'm a little actually personally impartial towards the supercharged four cylinder.
• 1:31:11
  The VR six is more valuable in the market.
• 1:31:14
  Even today in this kind of crazy market.
• 1:31:16
  If you look at bringing trailer prices, which are always kind of
• 1:31:19
  inflated, you can find a better deal than bringing a trailer.
• 1:31:21
  If you're willing to work your market and work your area, take
• 1:31:24
  your time and shop for something.
• 1:31:26
  They've been selling Corrado's.
• 1:31:27
  You know, they have, I think, three transactions this year
• 1:31:31
  that are all like sub 20 grand.
• 1:31:33
  And those are VR sixes and some other things.
• 1:31:35
  And so I'm going way below the 50 K target.
• 1:31:38
  You know, I'm thinking about myself when I was 27 years old and I was
• 1:31:42
  first buying my first collector car.
• 1:31:45
  I went with an 80s car.
• 1:31:46
  I got it in a really nice 85 Carrera 911, but that was back
• 1:31:50
  when everybody hated the 80s 911s.
• 1:31:53
  I got it for 20 grand and it was an amazing car and amazing condition.
• 1:31:57
  And the guy had a ton of money into it.
• 1:31:59
  You'll find a very passionate Corrado owners that spent an irrational amount
• 1:32:03
  of money on their car in the 90s.
• 1:32:05
  If I had to pick one, that's, that's probably one that I, that I could lean on.
• 1:32:08
  There are a ton of others.
• 1:32:10
  As I said earlier, don't be afraid of being basic.
• 1:32:12
  Don't be afraid of a Fox body Mustang.
• 1:32:14
  If that's what you like, you can find somebody that somebody dropped
• 1:32:17
  the fortune in, you know, you'll still get beat by Tesla at the
• 1:32:20
  drag strip, but it's really cool.
• 1:32:22
  And a lot of fun.
• 1:32:23
  There's a lot of, a lot of different options out there.
• 1:32:25
  Oh, I already gave you the NSF early your best eighties car.
• 1:32:30
  I got time shame by time.
• 1:32:32
  Cop mark.
• 1:32:34
  I'm cop.
• 1:32:34
  I have that great game, Eric.
• 1:32:36
  I'm, I'm telling you, Eric, you've got a fortune in Mark and Chris.
• 1:32:40
  You have a fortune, give them a show on a goldmine.
• 1:32:47
  Oh my God, I can promote the heck out of this thing.
• 1:32:50
  Are you kidding me?
• 1:32:51
  This is going to be brilliant.
• 1:32:54
  I mean, Mark is even drinking over there.
• 1:32:55
  He can't believe some of the crap that Chris is coming up with.
• 1:32:58
  He's just drinking.
• 1:32:59
  He's like, I can't take any more of this crap.
• 1:33:01
  I'm going to give him a spit take now.
• 1:33:02
  So start drinking.
• 1:33:04
  I have two in the very, very, very different cars that keep
• 1:33:07
  my attention from the nineties.
• 1:33:09
  Do you remember the Ford Thunderbird SC, the supercharge?
• 1:33:13
  That was on my list.
• 1:33:14
  Yes.
• 1:33:14
  Sorry, I ripped.
• 1:33:16
  Uncle had one of those.
• 1:33:17
  The thunder chicken.
• 1:33:18
  The thunder chicken.
• 1:33:19
  My brother had one and he never let me drove it, the jerk.
• 1:33:23
  But what a car.
• 1:33:24
  What?
• 1:33:25
  Remember, remember that car had a sister, the Cougar XR7.
• 1:33:29
  Again, if you're seeking Ford, you're going to pay a little more money.
• 1:33:33
  But if you know what to look for in a Mercury, you can get the same car.
• 1:33:37
  They made a five liter version of that, which you can find for like 5
• 1:33:40
  in a McDonald's burger these days.
• 1:33:43
  Yeah.
• 1:33:43
  No, just go rip the engine out and put it in something like
• 1:33:47
  drop it into something else.
• 1:33:48
  And it'll like blow your mind.
• 1:33:49
  Great, great, great car.
• 1:33:51
  He also had a Pontiac, like he had some sported up Grand Prix.
• 1:33:56
  And I can't remember what the bottle number was for that.
• 1:33:58
  Hold on.
• 1:33:58
  If you're in the nineties, supercharger, the SSE.
• 1:34:02
  The Grand Prix also had a really special car from McLaren.
• 1:34:06
  It was the McLaren ASD Grand Prix, and it was a turbocharged.
• 1:34:10
  It was essentially a much more handsome, much more comfortable version of
• 1:34:13
  what a Grand National might've been.
• 1:34:16
  Very rare.
• 1:34:16
  Very few people even know what they are.
• 1:34:18
  Yeah, they've got flared out hips over the wheels.
• 1:34:21
  They're a little bit bigger looking, a little chunkier.
• 1:34:24
  I wonder, Chris, could that have been it?
• 1:34:25
  Or did you have the Supercharged?
• 1:34:27
  It wasn't a McLaren, but it was the, someone said it.
• 1:34:30
  I heard it.
• 1:34:30
  I just forgot the name.
• 1:34:32
  Robin.
• 1:34:32
  SSEI?
• 1:34:32
  The Supercharged SSE?
• 1:34:34
  Great car.
• 1:34:35
  Really great car.
• 1:34:36
  GXP model as well, wasn't there during that time period?
• 1:34:39
  I think so.
• 1:34:40
  The GXP, I'm sorry, yeah.
• 1:34:41
  The SSE was the Bonneville.
• 1:34:42
  The GXP was the, yeah.
• 1:34:44
  Right.
• 1:34:45
  Actually, the one that I would really point people towards
• 1:34:47
  is a Gen 1 Lotus Elise.
• 1:34:49
  Yes.
• 1:34:50
  Generally think that's one of the all time greats.
• 1:34:51
  But they didn't sell those here.
• 1:34:53
  You have to import those.
• 1:34:54
  And a lot of people, you and I know what they look like, but they're not the ones.
• 1:34:58
  Because the time is, the clock has run out.
• 1:35:00
  You can bring them in without penalty.
• 1:35:03
  A guy brought one in from England.
• 1:35:05
  He was a Holy crud.
• 1:35:08
  I'll never forget that car.
• 1:35:09
  The handling, you know, it's got a Toyota engine.
• 1:35:13
  I just think it's a beautiful, beautiful car.
• 1:35:15
  And also it was the prototype for the Tesla roadster, you
• 1:35:18
  know, they kind of built.
• 1:35:19
  Right.
• 1:35:21
  See, but I would, I would take a step back.
• 1:35:23
  And if I'm going pure nineties Lotus, I would look for the last.
• 1:35:27
  of the line before the Elise came out, the Elan, which is
• 1:35:31
  what they kind of spun off of.
• 1:35:33
  And the Elans are kind of wedgy and have that 80s shape to them, but
• 1:35:37
  they're also really kind of cool.
• 1:35:39
  And there were some NGs and Opals that were very similar as well.
• 1:35:43
  And if you remember, there was a commercial in the early days of the line.
• 1:35:46
  Kind of the internet.
• 1:35:47
  There was this guy and he would, you know, spin the car into the parking spot.
• 1:35:50
  And it was in this little Opel convertible.
• 1:35:52
  And I'm not talking about like the Vauxhall VXR and the Opel that
• 1:35:55
  became the solstice and all that precursors to those cars in the
• 1:35:59
  generation of the late Elans and stuff.
• 1:36:01
  Those are pretty neat cars that could be really collectible and very
• 1:36:05
  forgotten if you're looking British.
• 1:36:07
  Yeah, I think that's great.
• 1:36:10
  I'm pushing back a little bit on what you were saying.
• 1:36:12
  Like they'd lost their way a little bit and like the, at least just
• 1:36:15
  like brought them right back to what Colin, what it should have been.
• 1:36:18
  Yeah, exactly.
• 1:36:20
  You're lightweight, low power, but unbelievable handling.
• 1:36:25
  That was a really cool car.
• 1:36:26
  And I'll throw in last mark can call me on this.
• 1:36:31
  It was the, I certainly will.
• 1:36:33
  What year was the Meco or whatever they call that?
• 1:36:36
  Oh, the Ford Sierra Cosworth.
• 1:36:37
  The Meco XR four ti.
• 1:36:39
  Yeah, that was the eighties, the late eighties.
• 1:36:42
  That wasn't it.
• 1:36:43
  Okay.
• 1:36:43
  That was a cool car though.
• 1:36:44
  That's another underappreciated car.
• 1:36:46
  Very underappreciated.
• 1:36:48
  Extremely.
• 1:36:49
  That's my nineties list, so I have one for the nineties that I think gets forgotten.
• 1:36:54
  Because it was eclipsed very quickly.
• 1:36:56
  And I recently got to ride in one for an extended period of time.
• 1:36:59
  And it reinvigorated the passion for one of these.
• 1:37:03
  And it's the first gen two and a half liter Boxster.
• 1:37:07
  Oh yeah.
• 1:37:08
  Makes 200 horse weighs 2, 700 pounds.
• 1:37:11
  It's everything you need out of a two seat roadster convertible and they're cheap.
• 1:37:16
  They're very, very cheap.
• 1:37:18
  Good one.
• 1:37:18
  You have to bring it the first gen ZR1 Corvette right now.
• 1:37:24
  Good bargain, right?
• 1:37:25
  Are they still cheap?
• 1:37:26
  They were relatively cheap for a long time.
• 1:37:27
  Yeah, they're still cheap.
• 1:37:28
  You know why they're overlooked because people look at the C fives and sixes,
• 1:37:32
  but you know, it's a collectible item.
• 1:37:34
  And it was very expensive back in 1990 to buy a ZR1, it was double
• 1:37:37
  the price of a regular Corvette.
• 1:37:38
  375 horsepower had a turnkey.
• 1:37:40
  So your kid couldn't get more power of like 200 normally.
• 1:37:43
  And then it goes with the 375 or 405, depending on the year.
• 1:37:47
  Remember when that, when that car hit the 405, that was the moment
• 1:37:51
  when Corvette absolutely went fender to fender with Testarossa and
• 1:37:56
  Countach and the, and the 930 Turbo.
• 1:37:59
  They were fender to fender with our cars all the way.
• 1:38:01
  And yet they were so much cheaper.
• 1:38:04
  I heard a good one, uh, back in the day, I'm going to go
• 1:38:07
  buy myself a Walmart Ferrari.
• 1:38:10
  You know, and they were referencing a Corvette, you know, you can't
• 1:38:13
  go wrong with one of those cars.
• 1:38:14
  You really can't.
• 1:38:15
  The only caution I've got with the ZR1 from that era is don't break that engine
• 1:38:20
  because there are no parts anymore.
• 1:38:22
  Those engines are, you know, unobtainium.
• 1:38:25
  Yeah, you do run into this situation very often where, you know, the aspirational,
• 1:38:30
  less expensive platform, and I'm not going to say American or whatever.
• 1:38:33
  This is a true cross country where they go up against the end of the older platforms.
• 1:38:39
  And they kicked their butts.
• 1:38:40
  It's kind of really a shame in the zero one.
• 1:38:42
  You just, the internal politics around GM kind of killing that car,
• 1:38:47
  totally badass and underappreciated.
• 1:38:48
  Great one, you know, kind of building on that way off base here.
• 1:38:52
  I'm going to say this and you guys are either going to wonder
• 1:38:53
  what it is, or you're going to say, you've got to be kidding me.
• 1:38:56
  Especially Mark over there with his anti front wheel drive thing.
• 1:38:59
  But the Dodge Daytona IROC RT of 1992, that was a bear of a car.
• 1:39:06
  And it was a little 2.
• 1:39:07
  2 liter or cylinder with a, with a turbo and an intercooler.
• 1:39:11
  The damn thing put out 222 horsepower and Mark, forgive me that front wheel
• 1:39:16
  drive because of it, good God almighty.
• 1:39:19
  You, you could scare the bejesus out of Trans Ams,
• 1:39:22
  Corvettes, Mustangs all day long.
• 1:39:25
  And especially in the curves, when that front wheel drive is just pulling
• 1:39:28
  you through, they were brilliant cars, they were very few of them produced.
• 1:39:32
  And yet again, there are none out there.
• 1:39:34
  And a lot of guys don't even know what they are.
• 1:39:36
  And if you go back to the 80s, just like you're saying,
• 1:39:38
  Mark, build on that platform.
• 1:39:40
  I mean, it was just a K car with a turbocharger body.
• 1:39:44
  That charger you mentioned earlier, the GLH charger, it's basically
• 1:39:48
  a derivative of that, right?
• 1:39:49
  It is the father of the Daytona.
• 1:39:51
  They shared the showroom for one year.
• 1:39:53
  I think then no more charger with Daytona city.
• 1:39:57
  So another one that was on my list coming from the VAG world yet again, nowadays,
• 1:40:01
  you're starting to see the resurgence of.
• 1:40:03
  First gen quattros and second gen quattro coupes.
• 1:40:06
  And a lot of people second gen quattro coupes are like, what is that?
• 1:40:09
  And you can go look them up 1990, 91, they brought 1, 500 of them.
• 1:40:13
  Some say 1, 600 to the United States.
• 1:40:15
  We had three of them.
• 1:40:16
  So I can account for those.
• 1:40:17
  We still have one.
• 1:40:18
  They're kind of the epitome of the nineties, right?
• 1:40:21
  A big old, just blob of metal on wheels, you know, like any.
• 1:40:25
  Ford tourists or contour, you know, all that same shape, the 90s,
• 1:40:29
  everything was a marshmallow, right?
• 1:40:31
  The bubble design cars, right?
• 1:40:32
  Cab forward, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:40:34
  And the reason I bring up the Intrepid is the first car with cab forward.
• 1:40:36
  Granted, the Chrysler Intrepid is not going to be a collector vehicle.
• 1:40:40
  It's not going to make this list.
• 1:40:40
  I just said it for fun.
• 1:40:42
  Now going back to Audi, the car you should buy is not a second gen quattro coupe.
• 1:40:47
  You'll be disappointed with the whopping 175 horsepower that that
• 1:40:51
  20 valve five cylinder puts out.
• 1:40:53
  Save your pennies.
• 1:40:55
  You only need about a hundred more and go buy yourself a 1994 Audi 90 quattro CS.
• 1:41:03
  There's a 2.
• 1:41:04
  8 liter V6.
• 1:41:05
  It's a more modern suspension.
• 1:41:08
  They came automatic and manual.
• 1:41:09
  It's a better gearbox.
• 1:41:10
  A lot of other stuff that was just improved upon the same platform.
• 1:41:14
  Those chassis are great.
• 1:41:15
  Adding the V six and putting the wishbone suspension, all the other
• 1:41:19
  stuff that you take and put on a second gen Quattro is all there for you.
• 1:41:23
  And it's not that much more expensive.
• 1:41:24
  And the best part is it's a sedan, right?
• 1:41:27
  You're not dealing with trying to get into the back and the vault
• 1:41:29
  doors, like a Chevy Beretta.
• 1:41:31
  It's That, you know, the second gen coupes had all that kind of stuff.
• 1:41:33
  So that would be my recommendation for a saloon car from that era.
• 1:41:39
  That's interesting.
• 1:41:39
  You know, the Audi guy recommending you go from the classic inline five to the V6.
• 1:41:45
  Heck yeah.
• 1:41:47
  The other reason is.
• 1:41:50
  the four valve heads on there from the later six is you can do a lot
• 1:41:53
  of stuff with the six cylinder.
• 1:41:54
  There was an all aluminum three liter that you could drop in there.
• 1:41:57
  There's a lot of things you could do more modern fuel injection in 1994 versus 1990
• 1:42:03
  right in the beginning they had Motronic and then the later stuff came out.
• 1:42:07
  So it's just a better car waiting four years later for something way more modern.
• 1:42:12
  Now, if you really want to go extreme, the cabriolet is what I
• 1:42:16
  would get if I was cruising around.
• 1:42:18
  Same body style, all the stuff I just talked about.
• 1:42:21
  Only difference is they came in automatic only, but that's really easy to swap out.
• 1:42:26
  Let me throw one else out at you guys.
• 1:42:28
  The Taurus SHO Yamaha engine.
• 1:42:31
  He's shaking his head.
• 1:42:32
  Yes.
• 1:42:33
  They were cool.
• 1:42:34
  Yeah, definitely.
• 1:42:35
  It was affordable.
• 1:42:36
  It was the poor man's Audi 5, 000.
• 1:42:38
  I mean, right.
• 1:42:38
  You know, It really was, you know, the SHL again, Yamaha power, 220 horsepower
• 1:42:44
  out of the box, five speed manual is it went into the nineties, you have
• 1:42:48
  the same package, but the availability of an automatic and a sharper body.
• 1:42:53
  Uh, no, the SHL was a fantastic car and building on that and going into
• 1:42:57
  the Mopar camp again, you had the Dodge spirit RT, which was basically
• 1:43:03
  let's take that Daytona is 2.
• 1:43:05
  2 turbo and put it into a sedan body.
• 1:43:08
  And again, nobody knew.
• 1:43:10
  Nobody had any idea what this car was.
• 1:43:12
  It was a killer car.
• 1:43:14
  It really was.
• 1:43:15
  Now going back to Japan, if I could kind of compliment you guys, Mitsubishi had
• 1:43:20
  the, um, Galant, but it was a VR4 package.
• 1:43:23
  So you had the three liter V6 with the twin turbo, with the intercooler, with
• 1:43:28
  the five speed manual transmission.
• 1:43:30
  I mean, for the most part, it was a fairly conservative looking car.
• 1:43:33
  I think the SHO and the Spirit looked a lot more aggressive
• 1:43:37
  than the VR4 Mitsubishi sedan.
• 1:43:40
  The Spirit was the one that was also offered as the Shadow and the Duster
• 1:43:44
  and like a million other names, right?
• 1:43:46
  It was the Plymouth Shadow and it was the Dodge Spirit.
• 1:43:49
  The Duster was a sub package.
• 1:43:52
  To the Plymouth Shadow.
• 1:43:54
  So you would recommend that over the Neon?
• 1:43:56
  Not that I'm saying the Neon is suddenly becoming a collector car,
• 1:43:59
  because it's not, but I'm just asking.
• 1:44:01
  Chris's face is amazing.
• 1:44:04
  I would.
• 1:44:04
  I think he opened some Gorgonzola over there.
• 1:44:09
  I think the Neon is a little car, but when you're just talking, you know,
• 1:44:13
  sheer drivability, sheer torque.
• 1:44:15
  The neon cannot touch the spirit RT.
• 1:44:18
  There's just no way it's just not going to do it.
• 1:44:20
  And it sure as hell not going to touch the VR for another reason.
• 1:44:23
  I like that spirit.
• 1:44:24
  It's a 2.
• 1:44:25
  2 liter four cylinder with a turbo and an intercooler.
• 1:44:29
  The other cars are V sixes.
• 1:44:31
  The Mitsubishi is the bully of the group.
• 1:44:33
  That thing's got a V six with two turbos and an intercooler.
• 1:44:36
  The SHL is a three liter V six.
• 1:44:38
  That's really, really well tuned up.
• 1:44:40
  Those two are bullies compared to that Dodge.
• 1:44:43
  That Dodge is a little four cylinder, but it.
• 1:44:45
  Kicks butt.
• 1:44:46
  So I'll see your spirit and I will raise you.
• 1:44:49
  And I think it was 1992 ish when they went out in 93, the last year of the
• 1:44:55
  first gen minivan came as an RT with color match bumpers and all this stuff.
• 1:45:02
  Mm-Hmm.
• 1:45:02
  . Those are cool.
• 1:45:03
  And I think that's a collector car if you're into vans and station wagons.
• 1:45:07
  But I wanna throw a, a wrench in here.
• 1:45:08
  'cause we did bring up minivans.
• 1:45:10
  Got to bring up the SVT lightning truck.
• 1:45:12
  It's a very sought after truck now.
• 1:45:14
  Very collectible.
• 1:45:15
  The very first one.
• 1:45:16
  Yeah, you're right.
• 1:45:16
  You're right.
• 1:45:17
  I like those a lot too.
• 1:45:18
  They're, they're a lot of fun.
• 1:45:20
  I know a guy tunes them and lowers them and those things are incredible.
• 1:45:23
  Yeah, that's a great car that had the Windsor in it.
• 1:45:26
  If I remember correctly or the Cleveland, one of those two motors, right?
• 1:45:29
  It's, it's nothing fancy and base trim, but when they lightening it
• 1:45:33
  up, it was a hell of an engine.
• 1:45:35
  They are.
• 1:45:35
  And if you want to go that route, here I go with my Oldsmobile again,
• 1:45:38
  the Oldsmobile silhouette, which was a dust buster looking van.
• 1:45:43
  I mean, they weren't performance oriented at all, but if you want to talk about
• 1:45:46
  cool minivans, now, I don't know if we're going to go recommend to some
• 1:45:49
  guy, Hey, for your first collector car, you should go get a minivan.
• 1:45:52
  I think you guys have been smoking a little too much.
• 1:45:54
  So let's get back on track that we're starting to talk about minivans.
• 1:46:00
  I think we've just lost.
• 1:46:02
  Chris, I can pretty well assure you that Mark is writing all this down and
• 1:46:06
  he's going to bomb us very soon here.
• 1:46:09
  No, it's Brad.
• 1:46:10
  We haven't heard from Brad for like 90 minutes.
• 1:46:13
  I know Brad has just been sitting over there.
• 1:46:15
  I'm like, what does he do, you know?
• 1:46:17
  Uh, no, thank you, Alex.
• 1:46:19
  I'm okay.
• 1:46:19
  Uh, the nine 28 was definitely one, although I'm a nine, six, eight guy,
• 1:46:23
  like Mark, the nine, six, eight, just a phenomenal car ever since we started
• 1:46:28
  auto crossing together 20 years ago, I was drooling over the couple of the
• 1:46:32
  nine, six, eights that were there.
• 1:46:33
  So that car for me, but the nine 20 is a good distance second for that.
• 1:46:38
  I'm disappointed that nobody said anything.
• 1:46:42
  Truck wise, other than the SVT lightning, when we were talking about the sixties,
• 1:46:46
  I was thinking like suburbans and stuff like that, but that's just because I'm
• 1:46:50
  a bigger guy and I like bigger vehicles than late nineties BMW seven series.
• 1:46:56
  Those are beautiful.
• 1:46:57
  Like the transporter.
• 1:46:58
  Yeah, those are really 7 40.
• 1:46:59
  Yeah, that's the 7 40 aisles and the, you can get a 7 40 I sport.
• 1:47:03
  I looked for one for a long time and they just was very hard to find.
• 1:47:08
  So that's why I bought the S8 when I did, but yeah, those
• 1:47:10
  cars are phenomenal as well.
• 1:47:12
  Okay, but look guys, I really, I hate to cut in again.
• 1:47:15
  I know I'm like the Jay Leno here, but I, I kind of got to get going.
• 1:47:19
  I want to throw out a few that I, I wrote down here for 90s cars that I
• 1:47:23
  think are Worth looking into laugh at me.
• 1:47:26
  Don't laugh at me.
• 1:47:27
  Whatever.
• 1:47:28
  I'll start with the Honda Del Sol, which is basically a nine 14 or an X
• 1:47:32
  one nine or a Viper, if you look at it, it kind of looks like a baby Viper,
• 1:47:35
  the Lexus SC 300 or SC 400 coupe, the other one, which is kind of a weird one.
• 1:47:41
  You might actually have to look it up very early, the infinity
• 1:47:44
  and the 30 coupe or convertible.
• 1:47:46
  Then there, here I go with the old mobiles.
• 1:47:48
  Again, the old mobile Calais quad four.
• 1:47:50
  I wanna see your facial reaction.
• 1:47:53
  I want your opinion on this, Don, 2002 to 2004 Thunderbird.
• 1:47:58
  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:48:00
  They're a great car.
• 1:48:01
  I mean, if you just want to cruise and, and chill.
• 1:48:04
  Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think those have the supercharger
• 1:48:07
  option at that point, did they?
• 1:48:08
  No, four point, they were just the 4.6 and then the uh, the three
• 1:48:11
  point, it's so Lincoln Mark X, it's a Jag X type or whatever underneath.
• 1:48:15
  So yeah, those could be collector cards.
• 1:48:17
  They're really cheap.
• 1:48:18
  And they're very retro and they're in that at the end of the retro period, really.
• 1:48:23
  So I think those are something people could look out for.
• 1:48:26
  And actually that specific generation, which was the last of the classic bird, if
• 1:48:30
  you will, before the retro bird came out.
• 1:48:32
  If you look at the interior of those, they had a stunning interior.
• 1:48:36
  They really had a very, very nice interior.
• 1:48:38
  And again, you can get the Mercury brother, which had a kind of a
• 1:48:42
  blunted rear roof, uh, different, different style altogether.
• 1:48:46
  But, you know, building on that car, it shared the chassis with the Lincoln
• 1:48:49
  Mark 8 and the Mark 8 was a beast of a car, very technologically advanced.
• 1:48:55
  It had the 4.
• 1:48:55
  6 liter, but you had 32 valves, four overhead cams.
• 1:48:59
  Essentially it was a ZR1.
• 1:49:01
  It had the same formulas as the ZR1.
• 1:49:04
  Slippery, slippery body.
• 1:49:05
  One of those was recorded at, it was either El Mirage or the Salt
• 1:49:08
  Flats, I can't remember which, but one of those, very modified,
• 1:49:12
  went over 200 miles an hour.
• 1:49:14
  It was still just running.
• 1:49:15
  When I say modified, it wasn't the engine.
• 1:49:17
  It was the body and the interior and lowering it so it's even
• 1:49:21
  slipperier through the wind.
• 1:49:22
  But it went, it went something like 207 miles per hour with a factory engine.
• 1:49:27
  Yeah, building on your Thunderbird idea, you know, take it a step further.
• 1:49:31
  And if you want to talk sedan again, here I go with the Lincolns, the
• 1:49:34
  Continental of that same basic era also used engine, 32 valve, four overhead
• 1:49:41
  cams, but it was a front wheel drive.
• 1:49:42
  I'm sorry, Mark, but it was a front wheel drive platform, but it was a sedan.
• 1:49:47
  Very luxurious, very nice car, but next he'll try to sell us on something
• 1:49:50
  with a North star in it, like the XLR, but I'm going to leave that.
• 1:49:55
  I got you.
• 1:49:55
  Yeah.
• 1:49:57
  Yeah.
• 1:49:57
  I, you know, I liked the North star, but you know, what's funny about
• 1:50:01
  the North star, it is a good engine.
• 1:50:03
  If you repair everything, Cadillac did.
• 1:50:05
  If you go through and fix everything Cadillac did, you're going to be fine.
• 1:50:08
  But if you really want a solid Cadillac engine, look at the 4.
• 1:50:12
  9 liter.
• 1:50:13
  Anything with that 4.
• 1:50:13
  9 liter is going to, going to get you around.
• 1:50:16
  The nineties go without talking about the Mitsubishi Eclipse.
• 1:50:20
  Yeah, that's a great one.
• 1:50:22
  I mean, it's such an iconic.
• 1:50:24
  I agree.
• 1:50:25
  It's such an iconic nineties car.
• 1:50:26
  If only because of the fast and the furious, which, but isn't it
• 1:50:30
  already a collector car though?
• 1:50:32
  It's not, no, no.
• 1:50:34
  Look at printer trailer.
• 1:50:35
  They haven't sold one in five years.
• 1:50:37
  I'm not kidding.
• 1:50:38
  Type Mitsubishi Eclipse in there and an actual second gen Eclipse.
• 1:50:43
  And they haven't sold one since like 2019 or something.
• 1:50:46
  And you can't find them.
• 1:50:48
  I have looked, there's two on eBay motors right now.
• 1:50:51
  And that's about it.
• 1:50:53
  I like where you're going, but I would say the collector card for
• 1:50:56
  me would be anything with an eagle badge on it from that time period.
• 1:51:00
  Not the Mitsubishi.
• 1:51:01
  It's the same car.
• 1:51:02
  You're just being difficult.
• 1:51:03
  You're just being difficult.
• 1:51:05
  I've got like a cult classic that I have a super soft spot in my heart from
• 1:51:10
  the 90s, which is the Saab 900S Turbo.
• 1:51:13
  Oh, that's the, that's kind of the end of the line, right?
• 1:51:16
  Yeah, it's like a, it's that last of the wedgie boxy.
• 1:51:21
  Yeah, ULAR sob and then the nine, the 9,000 came out, which was unlike
• 1:51:26
  anything else they had at that time.
• 1:51:27
  Yeah, the The 900 Turbo, it's not gonna win any beat anybody off the
• 1:51:32
  line, but it's just funky and weird.
• 1:51:35
  It's a sob.
• 1:51:36
  I mean, what do you expect?
• 1:51:38
  Yeah.
• 1:51:39
  And we forget about sobs 'cause they're gone now.
• 1:51:41
  Right.
• 1:51:42
  Anytime I saw one of those cars, I thought it was just a weird looking 9 11.
• 1:51:46
  I can say that.
• 1:51:47
  That's very true.
• 1:51:47
  Because of how the windshield.
• 1:51:49
  You're a weird looking 9 11.
• 1:51:51
  I would be a very weird looking 9 11 if I was a 9 11.
• 1:51:55
  So I don't think we can go too much further into the 2000s.
• 1:51:58
  Like you guys said at the beginning, 2002 is really the cutoff, right?
• 1:52:02
  The last 20 years.
• 1:52:03
  We still have yet to determine what's going to be considered
• 1:52:07
  a classic, but I'll pose this.
• 1:52:08
  Unless it's the Porsche, everything they made is a classic just buy them all.
• 1:52:12
  Yeah.
• 1:52:13
  So I'll leave this as kind of the last lightning round question.
• 1:52:18
  As we look at the last 20 years, is there something right now that
• 1:52:22
  stands out that you guys are going?
• 1:52:25
  I think that's going to be a classic.
• 1:52:27
  Tons of like high end cars that you could pick off.
• 1:52:30
  I find that less interesting because they're designed to be
• 1:52:33
  instant classics or whatever, like there's this whole marketing thing.
• 1:52:37
  I don't know the one that I would pick out.
• 1:52:39
  And I already alluded to it because I think it's an important car.
• 1:52:42
  And I think it's a cool car is the Tesla roadster electric sports
• 1:52:45
  car, kind of groundbreaking first of the Tesla lineage, which.
• 1:52:50
  I think we can all predict is going to be a huge thing.
• 1:52:53
  So it's going to be like the little kernel of car that kind of like
• 1:52:56
  started the whole EV car revolution.
• 1:52:59
  And you know, that's a controversial thing for all of us old timers.
• 1:53:03
  But when you look at a car, that's going to be looked back upon
• 1:53:06
  is important and pretty rare.
• 1:53:09
  Already it's that I totally agree.
• 1:53:12
  I mean, I don't like the car, but I totally agree in the sense that, you
• 1:53:15
  know, it's, it's, it's certainly was the beginning of an era in, in that way.
• 1:53:20
  It's going to be a seminal car for the, you know, the next generation of
• 1:53:24
  technology and a hundred percent be collectible is basically a paperweight.
• 1:53:28
  As it sits today, but, uh, you know, I mean, given the cost of the batteries
• 1:53:34
  and, and the unavailability of software updates and all the other things, like
• 1:53:38
  I'm confident that there will be an open source community that eventually
• 1:53:42
  is able to get that thing running.
• 1:53:44
  And you'll be able to buy some aftermarket batteries and be able
• 1:53:47
  to make a modern vehicle out of it.
• 1:53:49
  I think we fall into this trap very often.
• 1:53:51
  You said earlier in the class, there's so many auto manufacturers today are
• 1:53:55
  kind of playing on the trope of the, you know, this is the last hurrah
• 1:53:59
  of the ice platform and whether it's Shelby Cobras or, or whatever, you know,
• 1:54:06
  The thing is, is like, who knows when that last hurrah really will be right?
• 1:54:10
  Like there was, there will absolutely be a market for 5, 000 or 10, 000 cars for
• 1:54:17
  150 grand that make a bunch of horsepower and runoff internal combustion engines.
• 1:54:22
  They're going to be making those through 2035 or 2040 or what?
• 1:54:25
  Like it's not now it's really not as much as anybody says now for your mainstream
• 1:54:31
  cars, certainly, but your Shelby GT 500 is not the last one of those cars.
• 1:54:38
  It just isn't.
• 1:54:39
  You know, people tend to fall into those traps or they fall into
• 1:54:42
  the manual transmission trap on Porsche or whatever it's like, Oh
• 1:54:46
  my God, they put a manual in it.
• 1:54:47
  I'm one of those people, I own one, but I like it.
• 1:54:50
  That's, that's why, that's why I have it.
• 1:54:53
  That's what I wanted.
• 1:54:54
  The values and the things that had happened to them as a result.
• 1:54:56
  You know, it's easy to point out like a Viper ACR or something, but the values of
• 1:55:01
  those have already gone through the roof.
• 1:55:03
  They couldn't move them off the damn lot for 145 grand.
• 1:55:07
  When they were making them now they're 300, 000 if I had to pick a classic
• 1:55:14
  car that wasn't like an obvious bid at a classic, maybe it's a little basic,
• 1:55:20
  but I go back to like a C7 ZR1 or Z06.
• 1:55:25
  You know, it was the last front engine Corvette.
• 1:55:27
  It was last year, it was the last of a, of a generation and they
• 1:55:30
  had a hard time moving those.
• 1:55:32
  They were selling, especially the zero sixes with like huge discounts
• 1:55:35
  to get those things off the lots just to move them and you know, the market
• 1:55:39
  had kind of fallen out from them.
• 1:55:41
  And I think that's generally kind of indicative of a classic car.
• 1:55:45
  This is the best version of this platform, but it's when the platform
• 1:55:50
  is a little too long in the tooth for the contemporary market.
• 1:55:54
  But the classic car buyer doesn't care 20 years from now.
• 1:55:56
  They don't care 20 years from now that that car was three or four
• 1:56:00
  years too late for the market.
• 1:56:02
  That's the best version of that platform.
• 1:56:04
  That's the best version of that car.
• 1:56:06
  And I think, you know, that's, that's a future classic.
• 1:56:08
  So I think you guys And the audience included has probably already guessed
• 1:56:12
  what my vote will be in this category.
• 1:56:14
  And this car has yet to be sold on the dealership lots.
• 1:56:17
  And that's the new Z400.
• 1:56:19
  I mean, if you think about it, it checks all the boxes.
• 1:56:23
  If we talk about the end of the ice era and all this kind of
• 1:56:25
  thing, a two door sports car.
• 1:56:27
  Proper sports coupe with a manual transmission, making decent
• 1:56:30
  horsepower, all that kind of stuff.
• 1:56:32
  I think that's going to be the car you buy today and in 20 years is
• 1:56:36
  worth a mint because it really is the end of the line in a lot of ways
• 1:56:40
  when you look at all those boxes.
• 1:56:41
  But you know, Brad's been stewing on all this stuff throughout this episode.
• 1:56:46
  So after taking all this in, what do you think, Brad, what would you buy?
• 1:56:50
  2016 Dodge Dart.
• 1:56:55
  HHR, BT Cruiser, all those.
• 1:56:56
  You can get a brand new 2016 Dodge Dart on dealer lots right now.
• 1:57:02
  People do it every day.
• 1:57:04
  At least one a month.
• 1:57:06
  Um, no, I, I'm going to say the F Type Jag.
• 1:57:10
  Well, that's a good choice too.
• 1:57:11
  But I'm not going to say like the SVR or the big V8 one.
• 1:57:15
  I'm going to say the only one you can get with a manual, there's
• 1:57:18
  like the standard V6 because they just didn't make very many of them.
• 1:57:22
  I like the supercharged six as well.
• 1:57:24
  If I was talking about a car nowadays.
• 1:57:27
  That's not a Dodge chart.
• 1:57:28
  If I can fire a shot too, and I think this is hugely important.
• 1:57:32
  The thing I tell everybody who asked me anything about this, it's just buy
• 1:57:35
  what you like, because then even if you're stuck with a total dud in terms
• 1:57:40
  of value, at least you like your car.
• 1:57:42
  You know, and you can have fun with it still, you might not be having
• 1:57:45
  some sort of Porsche, but you've got something that you enjoy.
• 1:57:48
  You know, there's a kid back in California, a real nice kid.
• 1:57:52
  He bought himself a, uh, Mitsubishi Eclipse convertible, real nice car,
• 1:57:56
  five speed car, real, real nice car.
• 1:57:58
  He was just having a ball with that thing.
• 1:58:00
  But behind his back, I hate to say it, but people were kind of making fun of him.
• 1:58:04
  And I said, why are you making fun of him?
• 1:58:05
  You know, and they all have these goofy, all is a mass
• 1:58:08
  produced Mitsubishi, who cares?
• 1:58:10
  I said, yes.
• 1:58:11
  You ever heard of the 3000 GT VR4?
• 1:58:13
  Have you ever heard of the stealth?
• 1:58:14
  Those are the big brothers of the Eclipse.
• 1:58:17
  And guess what?
• 1:58:18
  People are starting to clamor for those cars.
• 1:58:21
  I guarantee that Eclipse is going to be exactly the same way.
• 1:58:25
  Sorry to all of you out there who are kids.
• 1:58:27
  I know I'm the old fart of the group here, but he's a kid who's really
• 1:58:31
  getting into it, and the Mitsubishi is his gateway car, so to say.
• 1:58:34
  He's really enjoying the Mitsubishi.
• 1:58:36
  I'm hoping that later on he'll get into other cars.
• 1:58:39
  He seems to have a thing for the Japanese, but the bottom line, even if
• 1:58:42
  he can't sell that car for more than a dollar down the line, you know what?
• 1:58:46
  He had a ball.
• 1:58:47
  He had fun.
• 1:58:47
  Who cares?
• 1:58:48
  Let it go.
• 1:58:48
  And I think that goes back to a very important point that you
• 1:58:51
  talked about on your episode, Don, which is not dissuading people from
• 1:58:56
  the cars that they like, right?
• 1:58:57
  If they're attracted to it, even if it's not the most popular thing
• 1:59:00
  or not the smartest investment, foster that enthusiasm, get people
• 1:59:05
  interested in the automotive world.
• 1:59:07
  So like all good, what should I buy episodes?
• 1:59:11
  We never really come to a conclusion, but we give you plenty of food for thought.
• 1:59:16
  So hopefully if you're listening to this, you had a good time.
• 1:59:19
  We sure did.
• 1:59:20
  And maybe we gave you some things to think about that you weren't considering before.
• 1:59:23
  So to learn more about each of our guests, you can revisit their
• 1:59:27
  episodes on break fix or continue this conversation over at garage riot.
• 1:59:32
  com, the social media platform for vehicle enthusiasts.
• 1:59:35
  And bring your garage or collection to the next level.
• 1:59:38
  Don over at garage style magazine.
• 1:59:41
  com.
• 1:59:41
  Get all the latest information on events, clubs, forums, and recommended vendors
• 1:59:46
  over with Rob at collector car guide.
• 1:59:47
  net.
• 1:59:48
  And if you want to clear out your garage shop or shed, list your
• 1:59:51
  parts today with Chris over at www.
• 1:59:53
  collectorcarguide.
• 1:59:54
  net.
• 1:59:56
  Well, gentlemen, I can't thank you enough for coming back on
• 2:00:00
  break fix and putting up with the shenanigans that is what should I buy?
• 2:00:04
  We look forward to seeing you all again soon on another episode.
• 2:00:07
  We can't agree on what cars you should buy, but I think we can all
• 2:00:11
  agree on what car you should not buy.
• 2:00:13
  You know what car didn't make this list?
• 2:00:16
  The Pontiac Aztec.
• 2:00:17
  A hundred percent.
• 2:00:19
  I'm going to get one just to be cool.
• 2:00:21
  Yeah, it's going to be a collector breaking the ad.
• 2:00:24
  I think change the profile of that car.
• 2:00:27
  Not enough.
• 2:00:29
  It was great talking to all of you.
• 2:00:30
  Great to meet you.
• 2:00:32
  And, uh, I'll look forward to our next conversation.
• 2:00:34
  Good to see you, Don.
• 2:00:35
  Good to meet you.
• 2:00:36
  I'm sure.
• 2:00:36
  Thanks.
• 2:00:37
  Thanks for having me.
• 2:00:38
  Thanks.
• 2:00:38
  Thanks for hanging out.
• 2:00:39
  It was, uh, it was a real blast.
• 2:00:41
  Signing off.
• 2:00:42
  Later.
• 2:00:43
  Thanks guys.
• 2:00:44
  No worries.
• 2:00:44
  Thanks.
• 2:00:45
  Bye.
• 2:00:50
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM,
• 2:00:52
  be sure to check us out on www.
• 2:00:56
  gtmotorsports.
• 2:00:56
  org.
• 2:00:57
  You can also find us on Instagram at GrandTouringMotorsports.
• 2:01:00
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows,
• 2:01:04
  be You can call or text us at 202 630 1770 or send us an email gtmotorsports.
• 2:01:12
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• 2:01:12
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 2:01:14
  Hey everybody, Crew Chief Eric here.
• 2:01:17
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 2:01:20
  to remind you that GTM remains a no annual fees organization.
• 2:01:25
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