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TABLE TALK: Doug Glanville Discusses The Changing MLB Landscape · The Philadelphia Sports Table | Philly Sports News & Views

0:29
Speaker 1: Welcome to Table Talk here at the Philadelphia Sports Table
0:31
Speaker 1: podcast show, the longest running weekly Philly sports podcast show
0:35
Speaker 1: in the world, well over thirteen years strong. And we've
0:38
Speaker 1: got a great guest this week. We heard him on
0:41
Speaker 1: the Philadelphia Sports Table podcast Show earlier this year when
0:44
Speaker 1: we were at the Redding Hot Stover's annual banquet.
0:47
Speaker 2: We have with us. Boy, I gotta tell you it's
0:49
Speaker 2: a real treat. It really is.
0:50
Speaker 1: Former Major League Baseball outfielder, an Emmy Award winning journalist,
0:55
Speaker 1: ESPN baseball analyst, an author, an educator who's word explores
1:00
Speaker 1: baseball as a lens for understanding culture, identity, and community.
1:04
Speaker 2: And I mean, I could keep.
1:05
Speaker 1: Going on and on, but I do want a promo
1:07
Speaker 1: his book as well, his book A Gay Up Sorry,
1:10
Speaker 1: The Game from Where I Stand, A ballplayers Inside View.
1:15
Speaker 1: We've got the one and only Doug Glanville, my friend.
1:18
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time to join
1:19
Speaker 1: us here.
1:21
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jeff, it's been a pleasure to get to know
1:23
Speaker 3: you from the Hot Stove.
1:25
Speaker 2: Yeah.
1:25
Speaker 3: So yeah, that was a great experience. And yeah, it's
1:28
Speaker 3: awesome to reconnect. I know we've been in touch, So yeah,
1:31
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to kicking and around with you.
1:34
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And look, I want to start, if you don't mind, Doug,
1:37
Speaker 1: the conversation with the Redding Hot Stovers. It's an organization
1:40
Speaker 1: that you know, I've been been affiliated with in some way,
1:44
Speaker 1: shape or form from an outside perspective for a while.
1:47
Speaker 1: One of my good friends is on their board, and
1:49
Speaker 1: they do such good work within the Eastern Pennsylvanian, specifically
1:53
Speaker 1: the Berks County community. And when we were speaking at
1:57
Speaker 1: the Redding Hot Stover's annual banquet earlier this year, you
2:00
Speaker 1: got to know the organization a little bit better. And
2:03
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, what is it about the Redding Hot Stovers
2:07
Speaker 1: and their mission that really resonates with you? And what
2:10
Speaker 1: has impressed you most about the way that they support
2:13
Speaker 1: the community through their scholarship program.
2:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I love this organization because I just
2:19
Speaker 3: think it's you know, I grew up under educators, right,
2:23
Speaker 3: So my mom taught in middle school and I guess
2:26
Speaker 3: we call it junior high then, and when I graduated
2:29
Speaker 3: in the high school, she followed me.
2:30
Speaker 4: She was a math teacher.
2:32
Speaker 3: So my father, who ultimately was a psychiatrist, was an
2:37
Speaker 3: educator in Trinidad and Tobago before he came to the
2:39
Speaker 3: United States. So I think I start there, and I
2:42
Speaker 3: always think of the foundation of a community and really
2:45
Speaker 3: to create a connectivity between generations. So much of it
2:50
Speaker 3: flows through education, yes, and of course when I see
2:53
Speaker 3: that connected through sport and particularly baseball, that's something I
2:57
Speaker 3: automatically feel a connection. And I think the Reading Hot
3:00
Speaker 3: stovers you talk about legacy and time, this is an
3:05
Speaker 3: organization that has a long history. Oh yes, that is
3:08
Speaker 3: consistently really elevated the importance of the power of education,
3:13
Speaker 3: giving back, paying it forward, and really celebrating people who
3:19
Speaker 3: have committed to combine this really challenging needle. You have
3:23
Speaker 3: the thread between athletics and academics. So I you know,
3:28
Speaker 3: I just have nothing but good things to say about like, well,
3:31
Speaker 3: outside of just my experience in being part of the event,
3:35
Speaker 3: there was so much that the work that continues and
3:37
Speaker 3: I know everybody who works so hard behind the scenes
3:40
Speaker 3: to make these connections. So yeah, I just and I
3:44
Speaker 3: hope I know the communities behind it. I encourage people
3:47
Speaker 3: to continue to support the Uppart because it just goes
3:50
Speaker 3: to a good cause.
3:50
Speaker 1: Absolutely real quick plug folks, search out the Redding Hot Stovers.
3:54
Speaker 1: They do such fantastic work in the community. As Doug
3:57
Speaker 1: was just talking about, and as we're moving forward with
4:01
Speaker 1: the conversation here, Doug, I wanted to bring things kind
4:04
Speaker 1: of back to something we were talking about on this
4:07
Speaker 1: podcast platform this past week in terms of Major League
4:10
Speaker 1: Baseball and where major League Baseball is going, not only
4:13
Speaker 1: with the game, but really from a tech standpoint, because
4:16
Speaker 1: there's always been this kind of underlying feeling and we
4:20
Speaker 1: get this here with one of my co hosts, who's
4:22
Speaker 1: very much a traditionalist when it comes to baseball. Myself,
4:25
Speaker 1: I'm more along the lines of, Okay, let's modernize the game,
4:28
Speaker 1: modernize the sport. But you know, sometimes sometimes I think
4:32
Speaker 1: things can maybe go a little too far in sport. So,
4:34
Speaker 1: like I said recently on the podcast, we were having
4:37
Speaker 1: a discussion where we're talking about Major League Baseball is
4:39
Speaker 1: now banned AI in the dugout, and my co host
4:44
Speaker 1: and I both thought, you know, this is a good move,
4:46
Speaker 1: since AI really could mess with the integrity of the
4:49
Speaker 1: game while it's actually being played on the field here.
4:52
Speaker 1: So I'm wondering, what are your specific thoughts about Major
4:56
Speaker 1: League Baseball's decision to do this good not good, maybe
4:59
Speaker 1: some in between. What are your thoughts here?
5:02
Speaker 5: Well, for starters, you have to make the deliberate effort
5:07
Speaker 5: to try to define how you want technology to weave
5:12
Speaker 5: into your culture, because if you don't, it will define you.
5:16
Speaker 3: I mean it's because the speed of this information. We
5:19
Speaker 3: don't even need to look at baseball to understand in
5:21
Speaker 3: our daily lives. If you're not saying you know to
5:24
Speaker 3: your kids, or you're trying to say, like, here's how
5:27
Speaker 3: we incorporate the technology. Yes, I understand it's part of
5:30
Speaker 3: it and maybe it makes things easier maybe, but we
5:33
Speaker 3: don't want it to write your whole paper. For example,
5:36
Speaker 3: we wanted to be a supplement. It's just the regulatority
5:40
Speaker 3: components to it. Yeah, and sport, there's something cultural you're
5:44
Speaker 3: trying to preserve. You know, it's not a science. It's
5:47
Speaker 3: not something that you could say, oh, yeah, you need
5:49
Speaker 3: to have you know, this many innings, or you have
5:52
Speaker 3: to have something always measurable. You just know that you're
5:55
Speaker 3: trying to preserve something that you want to maintain as
6:00
Speaker 3: part of the cultural center of the sport. And that's
6:02
Speaker 3: something you have to be very intentional about. And technology
6:05
Speaker 3: is coming. It's coming. And you know, it's like because
6:08
Speaker 3: eventually you could decide, like we want a video game,
6:11
Speaker 3: we just want to play a video game, and that
6:13
Speaker 3: may be the direction you go in. But if you
6:17
Speaker 3: want to have the humanity at the center, it's sort
6:19
Speaker 3: of like with umpires, right, if you you could have
6:21
Speaker 3: a robots all over the field and just have and
6:24
Speaker 3: to say, if that's what you decide, but then you
6:27
Speaker 3: have to understand what you're losing. And nothing is clearer
6:30
Speaker 3: than like abs.
6:31
Speaker 4: Right.
6:32
Speaker 3: They first started with a strike zone that was three
6:34
Speaker 3: dimensional and the ball, the curve ball is hitting the
6:37
Speaker 3: top of the back of the plate. That doesn't look right.
6:40
Speaker 3: And it was all like, it doesn't look right, it
6:41
Speaker 3: doesn't feel right. Okay, So then they made a two
6:44
Speaker 3: dimensional plane and they moved it forward. They said, the
6:47
Speaker 3: curve ball is hitting in the front of the zone
6:49
Speaker 3: and dropping in the dirt. That's not right. So they
6:51
Speaker 3: moved it right. But it was a construct. It wasn't perfection.
6:54
Speaker 3: It was just something agreed upon and the cultural aspect
6:58
Speaker 3: of it drove it. So I look, I'm an engineer,
7:01
Speaker 3: and you know that's what I studied in college. I
7:03
Speaker 3: have a great appreciation of innovation and I think it's important,
7:08
Speaker 3: but I think it's equally important to make sure how
7:10
Speaker 3: you wanted to fuse into the culture of the sport.
7:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
7:15
Speaker 1: Absolutely, the integrity of the game, I think is really important,
7:18
Speaker 1: and there's a balance, absolutely, And I think that's what
7:20
Speaker 1: you're talking about, that balance and making sure that you know,
7:25
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, there's not that much
7:27
Speaker 1: more of maybe an edge for one particular team or
7:31
Speaker 1: or a sport, you know, what have you? And I
7:34
Speaker 1: think to follow up on that as well. Doug Ai
7:37
Speaker 1: is obviously being used by front offices to evaluate talent
7:41
Speaker 1: at various levels. And I'm wondering if you think the
7:46
Speaker 1: analytics world that baseball is really living in has actually
7:50
Speaker 1: maybe gone a little bit too far in terms of
7:53
Speaker 1: how much stake front offices really put into analytics, or
7:58
Speaker 1: maybe should the analytics data go further in your opinion
8:01
Speaker 1: in terms of baseball analysis here?
8:04
Speaker 2: What are your thoughts here?
8:06
Speaker 3: Well, when I prepare for games, for example, it's a tool. Yeah,
8:10
Speaker 3: it's technology, I'm researching. I understand that, But then part
8:14
Speaker 3: of my preparation is data driven.
8:16
Speaker 4: Right.
8:16
Speaker 3: I look and I okay, he's his swing, raid, his tempo,
8:20
Speaker 3: all these things. But then I spend as much time
8:23
Speaker 3: talking to the managers, sitting at the batting cage and
8:26
Speaker 3: talking to the players, asking him all these things about
8:29
Speaker 3: how they feel about this, and and then I kind
8:31
Speaker 3: of understand that I need to synthesize those to really
8:34
Speaker 3: create a effective broadcast. So but if I just sat
8:38
Speaker 3: in on my phone and just research, I have very
8:42
Speaker 3: much one side of opinion if I had no conversations
8:44
Speaker 3: with anybody. So you know, if you don't intentionally put
8:49
Speaker 3: humanity at the center, it will not be in the center.
8:53
Speaker 3: And I understand, like if you're you're evaluating talent, and
8:56
Speaker 3: you you get information quicker because like you know, when
9:00
Speaker 3: I taught my courses, for example, in college, I wanted
9:03
Speaker 3: them to write the papers because it was a writing class.
9:06
Speaker 3: Right now, because if I wanted just AI to spit
9:08
Speaker 3: it out to me, then I would have asked for that,
9:10
Speaker 3: and then it would have been a very different course.
9:12
Speaker 4: Right.
9:12
Speaker 3: So I understood that when they were looking up the
9:16
Speaker 3: history of sports and society in seventeenth century Italy, maybe
9:20
Speaker 3: they used AI to get an effective search to get
9:24
Speaker 3: a quote off of something that they couldn't find easily. Okay,
9:27
Speaker 3: I understand that it's different than saying, let me take
9:30
Speaker 3: this and write the whole thing. So I think in baseball,
9:34
Speaker 3: you know you have to continue to look for that equilibrium,
9:38
Speaker 3: and the more you know, you have to and accept
9:41
Speaker 3: the trade off. So if I'm going to go all
9:43
Speaker 3: in this direction knowing that you're going to be losing something, right,
9:47
Speaker 3: and you're.
9:47
Speaker 1: Talking about balance, like like I was saying, like the
9:50
Speaker 1: balance with all this, yeah.
9:52
Speaker 3: And so yeah, you can evaluate I understand, you evaluate talent,
9:54
Speaker 3: and you make decisions on things that you could get
9:58
Speaker 3: information quicker or more efficiently. Yeah, but then like the
10:01
Speaker 3: model that you create to assess those things has its
10:04
Speaker 3: own bias because you're generating the algorithms behind the scene
10:09
Speaker 3: come from humanity, comes from some assumptions, comes from and
10:13
Speaker 3: you can't escape that. And so you have to know
10:15
Speaker 3: like where the fail states are because the outcomes it
10:18
Speaker 3: has to be more than just about the outcome. I
10:20
Speaker 3: think that's but that's that's the challenge a time, because
10:24
Speaker 3: you can become so outcome driven that you forget how
10:27
Speaker 3: important it is to how you drove there in the
10:28
Speaker 3: first place.
10:29
Speaker 1: It's a great way to look at it, fantastic way
10:31
Speaker 1: to look at it. Again, folks, we're talking to Doug Glanville.
10:34
Speaker 1: Head on over to Doug Glanville dot com. My friend,
10:38
Speaker 1: I know you're on You're on substack correct as well?
10:41
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, you are definitely on substack. I think
10:43
Speaker 1: it's a Doug Glanville dot substack dot com if folks
10:46
Speaker 1: want to head over there and see what Doug is
10:49
Speaker 1: posting every now and again.
10:51
Speaker 2: But we are going to take a.
10:53
Speaker 1: Quick break, and when we get back, I want to
10:55
Speaker 1: get into, uh, you know, your career a bit and
10:58
Speaker 1: talk about something stories as well.
11:02
Speaker 2: Folks. We're gonna take a break. We'll be back in
11:04
Speaker 2: just a bit.
11:07
Speaker 1: All right, We are back with Doug glan villain as
11:08
Speaker 1: we are moving along with the conversation here, Doug, you know,
11:12
Speaker 1: I know in terms of talking with you earlier this
11:15
Speaker 1: year again reading Hot Stover's annual banquet and thinking about
11:20
Speaker 1: our discussion here as we are in the summer of
11:23
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six, and thinking about your career. Man, you
11:26
Speaker 1: played one of the most demanding positions in baseball, centerfield,
11:31
Speaker 1: and before stat cast and advanced positioning came into the fray.
11:38
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't imagine what game preparation was really like,
11:41
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I wonder how much of
11:44
Speaker 1: playing centerfield was really instinct versus preparation, because you didn't
11:50
Speaker 1: have digital tablets that would display heat maps and spray
11:53
Speaker 1: charts things that players are using these days to help
11:57
Speaker 1: their game along. So how back of the day, how
12:00
Speaker 1: would you prepare for hitters when you were playing in
12:03
Speaker 1: the big leagues.
12:05
Speaker 3: Well, a lot of it was, you know, I guess
12:08
Speaker 3: my my iPad was like John Vukovich, right, So we
12:13
Speaker 3: had spray charts and so we had a lot of
12:16
Speaker 3: like handwritten data we looked at and it would literally
12:19
Speaker 3: be a chart of a field and show you where
12:21
Speaker 3: the hitter had hit the ball, different kind of pitches.
12:23
Speaker 4: So you got a lot of information from that.
12:26
Speaker 3: You had coaches that you know, you can make adjustments
12:28
Speaker 3: in game that would help you, and then you just
12:31
Speaker 3: watched the game unfold. You know, I started saying, Okay,
12:35
Speaker 3: you know Randy Wolfe's pitching, he's not quite as sharp
12:38
Speaker 3: on his change up away, so when the catcher sets
12:41
Speaker 3: up the way, I got to be mindful that he
12:42
Speaker 3: might leak it over the plate, or you know, Kurt
12:44
Speaker 3: Schilling is doing exit his fastball that would inform you
12:48
Speaker 3: on how much to shift or how much to move,
12:51
Speaker 3: and anticipation. So I learned under Jimmy Pearsall was a
12:54
Speaker 3: great coach, and Jimmy was all about moving as a
12:58
Speaker 3: pitch entered the zone. You were always in motion, you
13:01
Speaker 3: were anticipating, and it was informed motion. So I think
13:05
Speaker 3: that is where I came from. So we had the
13:08
Speaker 3: same ability, but a lot i'd say, to have information
13:12
Speaker 3: in a different form.
13:14
Speaker 4: But we also had a lot of power.
13:16
Speaker 3: I felt as the center field, I had a lot
13:18
Speaker 3: of power to be like, oh, we're moving all right,
13:20
Speaker 3: Bobby move in, Yeah, Pat Burrell, let's go.
13:23
Speaker 4: You know.
13:24
Speaker 3: I could tell people based on things that I would
13:26
Speaker 3: see and uh, you know, and I understood the spacing
13:30
Speaker 3: of it.
13:30
Speaker 4: So that was that was really cool.
13:32
Speaker 3: I think one great summation of this is one year
13:36
Speaker 3: I was working for Marquees Sports Network interviewing Albert Almore
13:40
Speaker 3: junior and he was a first round pick with the Cubs,
13:43
Speaker 3: really good defender, and so I was and it was
13:46
Speaker 3: an active interview. I literally had a ball and I
13:48
Speaker 3: was throwing on baseballs and he was going back and
13:50
Speaker 3: I was talking me through it. And at one point
13:53
Speaker 3: I explained Jimmy pearsall and how I used to get jumps,
13:56
Speaker 3: and I say, okay, the ball's on his own. I
13:58
Speaker 3: demonstrated it, and I finally finished my three minute speel
14:02
Speaker 3: about this, and then I asked them to rust directly,
14:05
Speaker 3: Well how do you do how do you get your jumps?
14:07
Speaker 4: Like? What do you do?
14:08
Speaker 3: He's like, you know what, I don't know if I
14:11
Speaker 3: do all that because from the data, I'm already where
14:15
Speaker 3: I'm supposed to be.
14:17
Speaker 4: So if I do all my running around, I'm.
14:19
Speaker 3: Actually running away from the most likely spot where the
14:22
Speaker 3: balls get Yeah. So I was like, okay, you know,
14:26
Speaker 3: so I think that sums up like what the data
14:29
Speaker 3: can do. Like he didn't need to do all this stuff,
14:32
Speaker 3: so he thought, because the data said this is where
14:36
Speaker 3: the ball is most likely to land. H So you're
14:39
Speaker 3: you're already there, yeah, And so it took away a
14:41
Speaker 3: lot of the anticipation and leaned into the data. So
14:45
Speaker 3: I think that's just something that kind of sums up
14:47
Speaker 3: the generations of how that data is implemented.
14:50
Speaker 2: Do you wish you had that back in the back
14:51
Speaker 2: when you were playing? Do you know what I mean?
14:53
Speaker 2: Do you kind of wish you had that a little bit.
14:55
Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, I would have enjoyed it.
14:57
Speaker 3: I like the information, but I never would have gotten
15:01
Speaker 3: fully away from Okay, yeah, that's great in a perfect vacuum. Yeah,
15:05
Speaker 3: but the game isn't a perfect vacuum, right, Like Kurt
15:08
Speaker 3: Schilling is missing his fastball today by three inches and
15:12
Speaker 3: he's forced into the zone and Gary Schuffield pulls the
15:15
Speaker 3: ball all the time.
15:16
Speaker 4: You know, you'd have to just your eyes are part
15:19
Speaker 4: of it.
15:19
Speaker 3: And I know we have our own biases, but the
15:22
Speaker 3: game does dictate a lot, and I think you need that.
15:25
Speaker 3: So it's information, right, You take it and you use it,
15:29
Speaker 3: and you create a plan, and then the game happens
15:31
Speaker 3: and then you have to adjust absolutely.
15:33
Speaker 1: Oh man, Well, as we're moving along here, I wanted
15:37
Speaker 1: to talk about a certain era of baseball that you
15:41
Speaker 1: played through, and you played through the steroid era of baseball.
15:45
Speaker 1: And I'm certainly not going to get into any specific
15:47
Speaker 1: players or anything like that with this particular topic here.
15:50
Speaker 1: But what I have found interesting in terms of reflecting
15:54
Speaker 1: on this particular era of Major League baseball is I'm
15:58
Speaker 1: wondering when baseball players really began to realize that baseball
16:04
Speaker 1: was changing physically changing physically to the point where they
16:08
Speaker 1: needed to do something else from a more competitive standpoint,
16:13
Speaker 1: And looking back, I wonder if there were any maybe
16:16
Speaker 1: misconceptions about that era of baseball that perhaps get lost
16:21
Speaker 1: because of how the human body evolves, especially when you're
16:26
Speaker 1: a professional sports athlete. Again, when players realizing that baseball
16:32
Speaker 1: was really changing physically, here can you kind of get
16:35
Speaker 1: into that? And again, were there any misconceptions about that
16:38
Speaker 1: era of baseball that perhaps maybe get lost every now
16:41
Speaker 1: and again.
16:43
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, I think it's yeah, it was kind
16:47
Speaker 3: of a terrible time in some ways, and I know
16:49
Speaker 3: that there was a lot of fun because I think
16:52
Speaker 3: the indicators like when Sosa Maguire had their home run race,
16:57
Speaker 3: the world was paying attention.
16:58
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and that was magnetic for baseball.
17:01
Speaker 3: But at the same time, there was kind of a
17:04
Speaker 3: dishonesty underneath it, right, that we were kind of in
17:07
Speaker 3: denial about on some level or we weren't sure, and
17:11
Speaker 3: then we were trying to marry that with legality, ethics, principle,
17:16
Speaker 3: fairness and all these things.
17:17
Speaker 4: You know.
17:18
Speaker 3: I think that made it something that we had the
17:20
Speaker 3: flesh out further to understand. Once again to the point
17:24
Speaker 3: about well, what kind of sport do you want to have.
17:27
Speaker 3: I mean you could, you could have WWE or whatever,
17:29
Speaker 3: and if that's what you want, you know that's entertaining
17:32
Speaker 3: and people pay for that and their icons. But then
17:35
Speaker 3: you're trying to be transparent about like, okay, well everybody,
17:38
Speaker 3: just take whatever you want, but that's not what Baseball
17:42
Speaker 3: defined and outside of just the legal questions, and so
17:46
Speaker 3: you know, we had a problem, and I think we're
17:50
Speaker 3: still really dealing with it, right. I don't think that's
17:52
Speaker 3: the consequence of it, because you just don't know that
17:56
Speaker 3: it became some way of not trusting the numbers. You
18:00
Speaker 3: didn't trust the numbers, and you didn't trust your opponents.
18:03
Speaker 3: You didn't trust your teammates on a certain level about
18:06
Speaker 3: like what they were doing or not doing. Just keep
18:08
Speaker 3: in mind, like it, yeah, you're in the same dugout
18:10
Speaker 3: and you have a family and a brotherhood with your teammates.
18:14
Speaker 3: But at the same time, there's various times in your
18:16
Speaker 3: career you're fighting for the same job with somebody, right,
18:20
Speaker 3: and maybe you lose and you end up being.
18:21
Speaker 4: The fourth outfielder.
18:22
Speaker 3: But maybe you lose and you don't make the team, right,
18:25
Speaker 3: So the consequences are real and you want everybody to
18:29
Speaker 3: at least have some semblance of level playing field in
18:32
Speaker 3: that approach. So so yeah, I mean, I think it
18:36
Speaker 3: colored the expectation of what power hitters look like and
18:42
Speaker 3: what positions it used to be, you know, second basement
18:44
Speaker 3: or they don't hit them run.
18:46
Speaker 4: Oh no, that changed, centerfielder, that change.
18:49
Speaker 3: And of course, if you're a player like I was,
18:52
Speaker 3: I'm not hitting forty home runs, you know, And so
18:55
Speaker 3: all of a sudden it became oh, well, you just
18:58
Speaker 3: need your glove in the ninth inning or the thing.
19:00
Speaker 3: We don't need you, We'll get someone hit home runs
19:03
Speaker 3: for the first five And it started to change. So
19:07
Speaker 3: you know, it's very it was very consequential. So and
19:11
Speaker 3: I hear all the debates, and every year the Hall
19:13
Speaker 3: of Fame election comes and people debate, and I do
19:16
Speaker 3: worry that we're going to eventually have amnesia, you know,
19:20
Speaker 3: because time.
19:21
Speaker 4: Goes by and you're just like, well, it wasn't that bad, right.
19:25
Speaker 3: And then you know, each generation who's trying to define
19:28
Speaker 3: their future will have a new vote, and I certainly
19:31
Speaker 3: welcome that, which is why you have to keep reminding
19:34
Speaker 3: people that this had a real impact and it was
19:38
Speaker 3: not fair, and and just because there's a lot of
19:43
Speaker 3: what happened in Vegas stays in Vegas, and players are
19:45
Speaker 3: kind of afraid to talk about it because you don't
19:47
Speaker 3: want to sell anybody out. Isn't a reason to not really,
19:50
Speaker 3: you know, be like conscious of how you understand it.
19:54
Speaker 3: And and I've been spoke out quite a bit about it,
19:57
Speaker 3: and I just I look, I'm I'm torn at different
20:00
Speaker 3: times because there's guys I played with against that I
20:03
Speaker 3: you know, really had a brotherhood with that I appreciate,
20:06
Speaker 3: and you know, they did it and they didn't do it,
20:08
Speaker 3: and I still understand what we went through and it's
20:11
Speaker 3: not but at the same time, you know, you also
20:14
Speaker 3: want to call it out. And I think the players
20:16
Speaker 3: that were the greatest players of my generation, which by
20:19
Speaker 3: the way, so many were implicated in this.
20:21
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, it is a little hard to accept.
20:24
Speaker 3: People say, well, this guy like I was drafted one
20:28
Speaker 3: pick in front of many Ramirez and I hear about
20:30
Speaker 3: that all the time, right, right, I was like, well,
20:32
Speaker 3: I made a little different choices than he did, right,
20:34
Speaker 3: So you know, so it's like, you know, is it
20:37
Speaker 3: apples and apples not really, you know, And and and
20:41
Speaker 3: that's just documented, that's evidence. So yeah, so I do
20:46
Speaker 3: struggle with that at times because I want the game,
20:51
Speaker 3: you know, to just be fair.
20:52
Speaker 1: Basically, I appreciate your honesty about it, because, like you said,
20:56
Speaker 1: I think we're still and I don't think, I know,
20:58
Speaker 1: we are still feeling the effects that era to this day,
21:02
Speaker 1: and I would venture to say that even in the
21:05
Speaker 1: decade to come, we are still going to be reckoning
21:07
Speaker 1: with it and with that particular era and how people
21:12
Speaker 1: view baseball in general. So I appreciate your honesty with it.
21:15
Speaker 1: And before I let you go, Doug, and to close
21:18
Speaker 1: this out here, you know, I'm hoping you could actually
21:21
Speaker 1: share some of your memories if you don't mind from
21:22
Speaker 1: the batter's box, wondering first which pictures really made you
21:28
Speaker 1: uncomfortable every time you stepped into the batter's box, if
21:32
Speaker 1: you don't mind maybe going there and was there a
21:35
Speaker 1: picture whose stuff looked even better in the batter's box
21:37
Speaker 1: than on television? If you can give some thoughts here,
21:40
Speaker 1: that'd be great.
21:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, It's well, I always think of this in two ways,
21:46
Speaker 3: like one is comfort is one yeah, and then there's
21:49
Speaker 3: others like it's like a results driven thing.
21:52
Speaker 2: Okay, So all right.
21:54
Speaker 3: For example, Randy Johnson not a comfortable at bat, but
21:59
Speaker 3: I hit him pretty well, you know, I hit him
22:00
Speaker 3: pretty well. And because with all of a sudden done,
22:05
Speaker 3: there's all these pictures that are incredible to face, but
22:10
Speaker 3: you really do love it, like that's the challenge, Like, yeah,
22:13
Speaker 3: I want to knock down Goliath.
22:16
Speaker 4: That's the point, right, So I.
22:18
Speaker 3: Just I, you know, and it's not saying that you
22:20
Speaker 3: didn't wake up with sweaty palms in the middle of
22:22
Speaker 3: the night, but you you welcomed this at a certain point.
22:27
Speaker 3: And I knew at a certain point for me or
22:30
Speaker 3: any player goes through this that if you get a
22:33
Speaker 3: hit off this guy, you're kind of immortalized. Like that's
22:36
Speaker 3: where it starts. And I remember my first time I
22:39
Speaker 3: faced Randy Johnson when he was recovered from his back
22:42
Speaker 3: in surgery or injury, and we were playing in Spring
22:45
Speaker 3: trend as Cubs Mariners and Ran Johnson was pitching, and
22:48
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe I was in the lineup. Yeah, and
22:52
Speaker 3: some like rookie trying to make the team, right, But
22:56
Speaker 3: I figured, if I'm supposed to strike out against this guy,
23:00
Speaker 3: if I don't, I might be I'm doing something amazing
23:04
Speaker 3: and I ended up hitting a triple off him, and
23:06
Speaker 3: it was like, oh, okay, that's just that moment of like
23:10
Speaker 3: I've a arrived, you know.
23:12
Speaker 4: So I think he was really uncomfortable because he threw
23:15
Speaker 4: so hard, he was.
23:16
Speaker 3: Unafraid to come in, and I don't think he got
23:20
Speaker 3: enough credit, how much, how good his command became as
23:22
Speaker 3: he got older, so I think. But then there's guys
23:26
Speaker 3: like Kirk Ruder. You know, I can't pronounce his name
23:29
Speaker 3: right after time. It's because reader Ruder. You know this dude,
23:32
Speaker 3: I ground ball to short ground ball to short ground
23:35
Speaker 3: bled a second, grandmother second or Greg Maddox. Not uncomfortable
23:39
Speaker 3: at all, not uncomfortable except you were over four every time.
23:42
Speaker 3: That's so. So there's stuffy, there's like Armando Benitez stuff,
23:50
Speaker 3: and then there's guys at Tom Glavin that you just
23:53
Speaker 3: twist up in a pretzel and can't figure out how
23:56
Speaker 3: you haven't got a hit in a week.
23:57
Speaker 4: You know. That's what was fun about it.
24:00
Speaker 1: What a great conversation, folks. Again, he is Doug Glanville.
24:04
Speaker 1: Head on over to his substack Doug Lanville dot substack
24:08
Speaker 1: dot com, and also head on over to his website
24:11
Speaker 1: Doug Glanville dot com. You can follow him on Twitter
24:14
Speaker 1: slash x Doug Lanville. Also over on Facebook at Doug
24:19
Speaker 1: Glanville nine. Also he's on Blue Sky. You're all over
24:23
Speaker 1: the place. Just search out Doug over there as well
24:26
Speaker 1: Instagram as well. Doug dot Glanville, my friend, seriously, thank
24:31
Speaker 1: you so much for taking the time here to jump
24:33
Speaker 1: on our Table Talk interview.
24:34
Speaker 2: Show this week. It was a pleasure.
24:36
Speaker 1: At some point down the road, I'd love to bring
24:38
Speaker 1: it back on Talk more Major League Baseball where the
24:40
Speaker 1: game is going.
24:41
Speaker 2: I'd love to do that down the road.
24:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Jeff sounds great anytime.
24:46
Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for us here on Table Talk
24:48
Speaker 1: this week. Please share our podcast with your friends and
24:51
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24:54
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25:02
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25:05
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25:17
Speaker 1: care and we'll catch you next time