Transcript

Sharri | 30 September · Sharri

0:06
Speaker 1: Good evening.
0:07
Speaker 2: Major breaking news tonight.
0:09
Speaker 1: Officials suspect a pilot tried to hijack a plane to Israel,
0:14
Speaker 1: stabbing his co-pilot. Passengers came to the rescue as the
0:18
Speaker 1: flight plunged 4,000 metres.
0:21
Speaker 2: We'll get the latest on this unfolding story.
0:24
Speaker 1: Also on the show, New South Wales Premier Chris Minns
0:26
Speaker 1: and former RBA Governor Philip Lowe call on the Albanese
0:30
Speaker 1: government to cut spending as rates rise to a 15-year high.
0:35
Speaker 2: And One Nation's New.
0:36
Speaker 1: South Wales leader, the man tipped to become Premier, will
0:39
Speaker 1: join us live on the show. But let's start tonight
0:43
Speaker 1: with this dramatic story, the breaking news from the Middle East.
0:46
Speaker 1: A fly Dubai flight carrying over 100 Israelis bound for
0:51
Speaker 1: Tel Aviv has reportedly been hijacked by one of the
0:54
Speaker 1: pilots who tried to crash it to the ground.
0:58
Speaker 2: This is still unfolding.
1:00
Speaker 1: The news still breaking as we go to air. But
1:02
Speaker 1: the Jerusalem Post has reported an Israeli official who said
1:06
Speaker 1: a major disaster was narrowly avoided.
1:11
Speaker 2: Here's what we know so far.
1:13
Speaker 1: Flight FZ1073 departed Dubai at 7.05 local time. During the flight,
1:20
Speaker 1: the aircraft suddenly transmitted what's known as a squawk code
1:25
Speaker 1: that indicated a general emergency was taking place on board
1:29
Speaker 1: before switching to one which signalled unlawful interference. like a
1:34
Speaker 1: hijacking or takeover of the cockpit. The plane reportedly dropped
1:38
Speaker 1: 15,000 feet in under a minute. You can imagine what
1:42
Speaker 1: that would have been like on board for the passengers.
1:45
Speaker 1: Before climbing back to almost 22,000 feet and then dropping
1:50
Speaker 1: again suddenly to under 14,000 feet. Details are still emerging,
1:56
Speaker 1: but it's understood one of the pilots attempted to crash
2:00
Speaker 1: the plane in a murder-suicide attempt. He's thought to have
2:04
Speaker 1: been prevented by other crew members and by passengers.
2:09
Speaker 2: Images are emerging on social.
2:11
Speaker 1: Media which claim to be of a passenger, you can
2:14
Speaker 1: see it there, with blood on his shirt, with some
2:18
Speaker 1: reports suggesting one pilot tried to stab the other pilot.
2:24
Speaker 1: This entire ordeal on a flight that many Australians catch
2:29
Speaker 1: from Dubai to Tel Aviv, this is terrifying. Israeli fighter
2:34
Speaker 1: jets were scrambling to follow the plane. The jet then
2:38
Speaker 1: subsequently landed safely, thank goodness, in Saudi Arabia. And there's
2:44
Speaker 1: images showing the applause on board when the flight did
2:48
Speaker 1: finally land safely.
2:51
Speaker 2: This is a developing story. We'll keep you up across it.
2:54
Speaker 1: We're going to keep updating you throughout the hour with
2:57
Speaker 1: the latest from passengers, information emerging as we speak. So
3:03
Speaker 1: we'll get across it throughout the hour. We're going to
3:05
Speaker 1: be joined by Dave Sharma, the former Australian ambassador to Israel,
3:09
Speaker 1: a bit later as well. Let's turn now to today's
3:17
Speaker 1: economic news. Philip Lowe spent 43 years at the Reserve Bank.
3:22
Speaker 2: He was governor for seven of them.
3:24
Speaker 1: And now he's blasting the Albanese government for its high
3:28
Speaker 1: spending that's putting pressure on inflation and leading to a
3:31
Speaker 1: higher cash rate. There's been 16 rate rises under the
3:35
Speaker 1: Albanese government for this year alone, adding around $ 30, 000 to
3:39
Speaker 1: the average mortgage.
3:43
Speaker 2: And Philip Lowe says.
3:44
Speaker 1: Directly and bluntly what his successor, Michelle Bullock, only implies,
3:50
Speaker 1: that record government spending is a major part of the problem.
3:54
Speaker 1: Here's Philip Lowe speaking with economist Adam Crichton, who's standing
3:58
Speaker 1: by to join us.
4:00
Speaker 3: Government spending contributes to inflation, because inflation comes when demand
4:05
Speaker 3: is greater than supply. It's, you know, first year, you
4:08
Speaker 3: learn this in high school, prices are determined by the
4:11
Speaker 3: balance of supply and demand. If demand is growing stronger
4:14
Speaker 3: than supply, then prices go up. Government spending has been
4:19
Speaker 3: adding to demand progressively over time and that's putting up
4:22
Speaker 3: with pressure on inflation.
4:24
Speaker 1: Look, he seemed to give the government a first-year economics
4:27
Speaker 1: lesson as he spoke about what you learn in a
4:30
Speaker 1: university economics course. The New South Wales Premier, Chris Minns,
4:35
Speaker 1: also today suggested the government should stop its spending.
4:40
Speaker 4: I think every government has a responsibility to do what
4:43
Speaker 4: it can to take demand out of the economy. We've
4:47
Speaker 4: said many times, the Treasurer, New South Wales Treasurer and
4:49
Speaker 4: myself have said many times that we have heard the
4:52
Speaker 4: advice from the RBA over the last two years that
4:57
Speaker 4: we need to be careful with public funds.
5:00
Speaker 1: Lowe is also revealing in this interview with Adam Crichton
5:04
Speaker 1: what his relationship was like with successive governments when he
5:07
Speaker 1: was at the RBA. He was deputy governor and then governor.
5:11
Speaker 1: He said he had a particularly close relationship with the
5:14
Speaker 1: Morrison government during the COVID pandemic years. He says he
5:18
Speaker 1: also worked very closely with the Rudd government as well.
5:22
Speaker 1: But then have a listen to what he had to
5:23
Speaker 1: say about the current Albanese government.
5:28
Speaker 3: The relationship with the current government has been more strained.
5:31
Speaker 3: They came to power just after the first interest rate
5:34
Speaker 3: increase after COVID and then every subsequent board meeting for
5:40
Speaker 3: the next dozen interest rates went up again. So for them,
5:43
Speaker 3: that was a challenging environment and the relationship between the
5:47
Speaker 3: bank and the government wasn't as strong as it had
5:50
Speaker 3: been in the past, let's put it that way.
5:53
Speaker 1: Wasn't as strong as it had been in the past,
5:55
Speaker 1: he says. He says, let's put it that way. It
5:57
Speaker 1: sounds like he really has a lot more to say
5:59
Speaker 1: on that front, but he's trying to be restrained. And
6:03
Speaker 1: those tensions are likely to be even more strained after
6:06
Speaker 1: this apparent rift between the RBA Governor Michelle Bullock and
6:10
Speaker 1: the Treasurer, after they each had a different view on
6:13
Speaker 1: what's causing inflation and and pushing up rate rises. Of course,
6:18
Speaker 1: Chalmers put the focus on the Iran war, while Bullock
6:22
Speaker 1: said domestic pressures.
6:23
Speaker 2: Were to blame, with the war only adding to them.
6:27
Speaker 1: The Prime Minister was asked about this difference of opinion today.
6:31
Speaker 5: Michelle Bullock is saying the main driver is domestic capacity pressures.
6:37
Speaker 5: Your Treasurer yesterday seems to be suggesting it's all to
6:41
Speaker 5: do with international issues and Who do you agree with?
6:44
Speaker 6: I agree with both of them because they are not
6:47
Speaker 6: saying contradictory things at all. And the Treasurer has been
6:51
Speaker 6: very consistent, speaking about the inflationary pressures which are there
6:55
Speaker 6: in the economy. They were there when we were elected.
6:58
Speaker 6: They've continued to be there. We've continued to take action
7:02
Speaker 6: on it.
7:02
Speaker 1: I mean, Albanese can spin this however he likes, but
7:07
Speaker 1: he can't hide from the reality of Australia's dire economic situation.
7:12
Speaker 1: CPI figures out today showed headline inflation went up to 4%
7:17
Speaker 1: in August from 3.5%. The trimmed or core inflation annual
7:22
Speaker 1: figure watched closely by the RBA was steady at 3.6%
7:26
Speaker 1: in the 12 months to August. But that's, of course,
7:29
Speaker 1: well above the bank's target of 2% to 3%. Under Labor,
7:34
Speaker 1: clearly inflation is out of control and it is still rising.
7:38
Speaker 1: Philip Lowe doesn't limit his critique of the Albanese government
7:42
Speaker 1: only to inflation. He shares his view with Adam Crichton
7:46
Speaker 1: on the broader economy, and he accuses Labor of wealth redistribution,
7:52
Speaker 1: running deficits where there should be surpluses, mismanaging energy and migration,
7:57
Speaker 1: and falling short of its own housing targets. Now, we're
8:01
Speaker 1: going to go through some of these now. Starting with this,
8:05
Speaker 1: Lowe says that Chalmers' budget should have sizable surpluses, and
8:10
Speaker 1: he explains right now why.
8:14
Speaker 3: So now we find ourselves running sizable budget deficits at
8:18
Speaker 3: a time where we're at full employment and commodity prices
8:21
Speaker 3: are very high. We should be running sizable surpluses. So
8:26
Speaker 3: We don't have a framework and we're not solving the
8:28
Speaker 3: intertemporal problem. So what we're doing now is spending today
8:32
Speaker 3: and leaving the debt for our kids. So the kids
8:36
Speaker 3: are going to have to pay the debt and the interest.
8:38
Speaker 3: And unless we change the stagnation, then they're not going
8:41
Speaker 3: to have a bigger pie to pay it back from.
8:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty sharp remarks. The Treasurer was asked about this today. He,
8:49
Speaker 1: of course, rejected the criticism. He argued commodity prices had
8:53
Speaker 1: come down slightly. But we know that the Albanese government
8:57
Speaker 1: has been engaging in classic wealth redistribution, where middle-income earners
9:02
Speaker 1: shoulder the burden of the tax system and are paying
9:05
Speaker 1: for an ever-growing welfare state.
9:08
Speaker 2: And Philip Lowe confirms this.
9:12
Speaker 3: Public policy is no longer focused on expanding the size
9:15
Speaker 3: of the pie. It's more about the distribution of income
9:19
Speaker 3: and wealth.
9:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, look, it's interesting because we never hear the RBA
9:24
Speaker 1: governor speak about government policy. They're famously independent and diplomatic.
9:29
Speaker 1: So it's fascinating to hear these sort of insights from
9:32
Speaker 1: Philip Lowe, and particularly when he then speaks about housing
9:36
Speaker 1: and immigration and personal income tax rates. And here he
9:40
Speaker 1: is on immigration and how it links to housing supply.
9:43
Speaker 3: Over recent years, the growth in the population has far
9:49
Speaker 3: outstripped growth in the capital stock. This is kind of
9:52
Speaker 3: the amount of physical capital there is for production and
9:54
Speaker 3: stuff in the country. And that is that's a problem
9:56
Speaker 3: and that's making us um making things more difficult the
9:59
Speaker 3: housing examples the one that people understand you know population
10:03
Speaker 3: goes up two percent but the stock of housing goes
10:05
Speaker 3: up one percent what happens prices go up and everyone
10:07
Speaker 3: gets something but that story is being replayed right through
10:11
Speaker 3: the country on different type of assets and infrastructure, business capital,
10:17
Speaker 3: right across the country, then we have to accept lower
10:19
Speaker 3: rates of population and that will have to come through
10:23
Speaker 3: lower immigration. I think we'll end up being poorer as
10:26
Speaker 3: a result of that, but that's the choice we face.
10:30
Speaker 1: Yeah, very clearly arguing there that we do need lower population.
10:35
Speaker 1: And Lowe says that the government has fallen woefully short
10:38
Speaker 1: of its housing targets and has no prospect of of
10:42
Speaker 1: meeting them. I mean, even that is an extraordinary statement
10:45
Speaker 1: that would be a front page story on any given day.
10:49
Speaker 1: Philip Lowe's criticism in a variety of areas is pointed
10:52
Speaker 1: but still respectful. Others are less polite. Economist Judith Sloan
10:58
Speaker 1: accuses the Treasurer of acting like a schoolboy who's been
11:02
Speaker 1: ticked off by the teacher. She writes in The Australian,
11:06
Speaker 1: the saddest part of this story is that Chalmers really
11:08
Speaker 1: doesn't understand economics and he has not been helped by
11:11
Speaker 1: the Treasury. Indeed, part of this saga is the rapid
11:15
Speaker 1: decline in the quality and increasing politicisation of the advice
11:21
Speaker 1: offered by Treasury officials. And then have a look at
11:25
Speaker 1: this front page. The Herald Sun blasted the Treasurer today
11:28
Speaker 1: with editor Sam Weir declaring on the front page, you're
11:32
Speaker 1: full of bull, Jim. Now, you can understand the anger,
11:38
Speaker 1: the criticism when families across the country are feeling the
11:41
Speaker 1: pain from rate rises. There was only one interest rate
11:46
Speaker 1: rise in the entire Abbott, Turnbull, Morrison government.
11:50
Speaker 2: And when it happened... You'll remember.
11:53
Speaker 1: Albanese said this was all Scott Morrison's fault.
11:58
Speaker 6: What we know is that under Scott Morrison, cost of
12:02
Speaker 6: living is in crisis. We know that the price of
12:06
Speaker 6: everything is going up, but people's wages aren't. And today, potentially,
12:10
Speaker 6: we face the triple whammy. Lower wages, rising inflation and
12:17
Speaker 6: rising interest rates. Scott Morrison, of course, is happy to
12:21
Speaker 6: always take credit credit for anything that goes right. But
12:26
Speaker 6: he always says it's not my job, it's someone else's fault,
12:29
Speaker 6: it's nothing to do with me when things aren't going
12:32
Speaker 6: so well.
12:34
Speaker 1: He literally could be speaking about himself right now. Of course,
12:39
Speaker 1: it's a different story now. It's not their fault. It's
12:41
Speaker 1: the Iran war. Yet, as I told you last night,
12:45
Speaker 1: our inflation rate in Australia is the highest out of
12:49
Speaker 1: all the major economies in the developed world.
12:52
Speaker 2: And they've all been dealing with the Iran war.
12:55
Speaker 1: Governor Michelle Bullock has been very clear that this is
12:58
Speaker 1: a homegrown issue, a domestic inflation problem that began before
13:04
Speaker 1: the war. And no matter how government ministers spin this
13:08
Speaker 1: or how carefully they script their press conference talking points,
13:12
Speaker 1: voters know the truth because they see it in their
13:14
Speaker 1: bank accounts. Mortgage payments are not a talking point. They're
13:19
Speaker 1: a financial reality. And no amount of spin can soften
13:23
Speaker 1: the pain of 16 rate rises. For more on this,
13:32
Speaker 1: I'm joined now by the Institute of Public Affairs Chief
13:34
Speaker 1: Economist Adam Crichton, who of course had that big exclusive interview. Adam,
13:38
Speaker 1: good to see you again and congratulations on the scoop
13:41
Speaker 1: that made news on every single media outlet today. Were
13:45
Speaker 1: you surprised at just how frank Philip Lowe was when
13:49
Speaker 1: it came to criticism of the Albanese government's mishandling.
13:54
Speaker 2: Of the economy?
13:57
Speaker 7: Yes, I certainly was.
13:58
Speaker 8: That's probably the longest interview a former Reserve Bank governor
14:01
Speaker 8: has ever given by a factor of five. And the
14:03
Speaker 8: comments he made were in that context fairly extreme. He
14:06
Speaker 8: was rather scathing of economic management pretty much on every front,
14:10
Speaker 8: as you outlined it. And when I saw the, you know,
14:12
Speaker 8: when I saw the transcript, I thought as a former journalist, gosh,
14:15
Speaker 8: there's so many splashes here, but the journalist had to
14:18
Speaker 8: keep it all in the one article. So Yeah, as
14:20
Speaker 8: you pointed out, whether it was tax or immigration or
14:22
Speaker 8: energy or deficit spending, inflation, you know, it was scathing.
14:26
Speaker 8: But I think the central point that most of the
14:28
Speaker 8: papers wrote about was the deficit spending and the inflationary
14:31
Speaker 8: impact of that. I mean, Chalmers is out there saying
14:34
Speaker 8: that the underlying cash balance is slightly improved.
14:37
Speaker 7: And, you know, it has by a few billion dollars.
14:39
Speaker 8: But the bigger picture is that the headline balance is
14:42
Speaker 8: about minus $ 60 billion this year. And that is a
14:45
Speaker 8: huge injection of new money into the economy. And of course,
14:47
Speaker 8: that is inflationary. And that's why we have, as you
14:50
Speaker 8: just said, we have the highest underlying inflation rate pretty
14:52
Speaker 8: much in every country in the world that is developed.
14:55
Speaker 8: I mean, in the Eurozone, in the US, in the UK,
14:58
Speaker 8: in New Zealand and Canada, those figures all have a
15:01
Speaker 8: two in front of them. So, you know, ours has
15:03
Speaker 8: a three and it's almost four. So it is rather embarrassing.
15:06
Speaker 1: He also made some fascinating remarks about energy because I
15:10
Speaker 1: read the transcript, of course, today. You know, he was
15:15
Speaker 1: open to nuclear, but very critical of the cost of
15:19
Speaker 1: energy as well.
15:20
Speaker 2: Tell us what he said.
15:24
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, yes, that's right.
15:25
Speaker 8: I mean, he did say that the nuclear ban was
15:27
Speaker 8: a priori rather silly, which it obviously is. I don't
15:30
Speaker 8: think there's any other country in the G20 that bans
15:32
Speaker 8: nuclear energy outright, especially one that orders nuclear submarines.
15:37
Speaker 7: So that was obviously a very good point.
15:38
Speaker 8: But yes, he was also critical of the unreliability of
15:41
Speaker 8: Australia's energy system.
15:42
Speaker 7: And I thought that was very interesting.
15:44
Speaker 8: And of course, the cost, too, he said it's both
15:45
Speaker 8: becoming increasingly unreliable and also more expensive.
15:48
Speaker 7: And of course, that has a huge inflationary effect.
15:51
Speaker 8: Throughout the economy, certainly a much bigger effect than the
15:53
Speaker 8: Iran war does on our inflation. That's certainly true. So, yes, look,
15:57
Speaker 8: I think he was, you know, I tried to get
15:58
Speaker 8: him to criticise, you know, solar and wind power, as
16:02
Speaker 8: certainly I would do if I was being interviewed, but
16:05
Speaker 8: he wouldn't go that far.
16:05
Speaker 7: But nevertheless, very, very far, you know, for a former
16:09
Speaker 7: RBA governor.
16:10
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
16:11
Speaker 1: Immigration levels as well. We heard some of those remarks there.
16:14
Speaker 1: But he said, look, the population needs to come down.
16:18
Speaker 1: We don't have the infrastructure to support it.
16:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
16:22
Speaker 7: Yes, that's exactly right.
16:23
Speaker 8: He basically said, look, if you're not going to fix
16:25
Speaker 8: the tax system, if you're not going to make the
16:27
Speaker 8: supply side of the economy more productive and more flexible,
16:30
Speaker 8: then you have to reduce immigration.
16:32
Speaker 7: So he was basically saying, you know, what One Nation
16:35
Speaker 7: is proposing. I don't know.
16:35
Speaker 8: I mean, he certainly didn't endorse the One Nation policy,
16:38
Speaker 8: but the broad thrust of the comment was certainly that
16:40
Speaker 8: we do significantly need to reduce immigration if we do
16:44
Speaker 8: not reform the industrial relations system, the energy system, the
16:47
Speaker 8: tax system, all these things. And as you well know,
16:49
Speaker 8: none of those things have been reformed, certainly not in
16:52
Speaker 8: a positive way, for quite some time.
16:55
Speaker 1: And just on the tax system, he was saying that
16:57
Speaker 1: our personal income tax rates are too high, was he not?
17:03
Speaker 7: Yes, he certainly was.
17:04
Speaker 8: I mean, as you well know, our top rate is 47%.
17:07
Speaker 8: It cuts it at $ 190, 000, which is only $ 10, 000.
17:10
Speaker 7: More than in 2008.
17:11
Speaker 8: If it had been indexed to inflation, it would be $ 287, 000,
17:15
Speaker 8: which is where the top rates are in many other countries.
17:17
Speaker 8: And so he's quite right to say that that is
17:19
Speaker 8: a massive ball and chain around the Australian economy. It
17:22
Speaker 8: basically creates this huge industry of tax avoidance, which we
17:26
Speaker 8: have one of the largest tax avoidance industries in the world.
17:29
Speaker 8: And of course, that is a drag on productivity too,
17:31
Speaker 8: which he was also very concerned about.
17:34
Speaker 9: Yeah.
17:34
Speaker 1: Well, clearly, you got under the treasurer's skin today. I
17:38
Speaker 1: heard him mention the podcast when he was asked about it,
17:40
Speaker 1: the press conference. But look, clearly, Philip Lowe has.
17:43
Speaker 7: Of course, you didn't mention me, though, unfortunately. That was disappointing.
17:46
Speaker 1: Philip Lowe obviously has a high degree of respect for you, Adam,
17:50
Speaker 1: to give you that long interview. So well done again.
17:52
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for your time. OK, let's
17:56
Speaker 1: return to the breaking story about the attempted plane hijacking
18:00
Speaker 1: of the Fly Dubai flight. And joining me now to
18:02
Speaker 1: discuss former Victorian Liberal Party President Michael Kroger and News24
18:07
Speaker 1: host Joe Hildebrand.
18:08
Speaker 2: Great to see you both.
18:09
Speaker 4: Great to be here.
18:10
Speaker 1: Joe, you've just been getting across the latest developments. What
18:13
Speaker 1: can you tell us that's new?
18:14
Speaker 10: Yeah, look, we're starting to get our first reports actually
18:17
Speaker 10: from onboard the plane itself, which has now safely landed
18:20
Speaker 10: in Saudi Arabia, as you said. This is indirect, though,
18:23
Speaker 10: of course, so... At Ben Gurion Airport in Tel Aviv,
18:27
Speaker 10: which was expecting the flight before it was redirected, Yasmin
18:31
Speaker 10: Aboukassis was waiting for the arrival of her daughter. Her
18:35
Speaker 10: daughter was on the plane. She has spoken to her
18:37
Speaker 10: daughter on the phone and has now spoken to journalists
18:42
Speaker 10: from the Associated Press and Reuters.
18:44
Speaker 7: At Ben Gurion Airport.
18:45
Speaker 10: She says that there was a huge amount of screaming
18:49
Speaker 10: on the plane. Basically, there was a call coming from
18:53
Speaker 10: a pilot to the rest of the cabin for help.
18:58
Speaker 10: So a general call went out to the entire fuselage,
19:02
Speaker 10: if you like, for help, and then.
19:07
Speaker 10: Israeli passengers on board the plane, or passengers on board
19:10
Speaker 10: the plane, which were Israeli, rushed towards the cockpit. There
19:15
Speaker 10: they managed to disarm or run towards or confront a
19:19
Speaker 10: man who had a knife. We think it was a pilot.
19:23
Speaker 10: And then two other pilots, according to this report, were
19:26
Speaker 10: then able to take control of the plane.
19:28
Speaker 7: So this suggests that there.
19:29
Speaker 10: Was perhaps a pilot and a co-pilot Maybe one in
19:33
Speaker 10: reserve as sometimes you have or someone who is a
19:35
Speaker 10: navigator as well.
19:36
Speaker 9: I don't know.
19:36
Speaker 10: That's just speculation. But that would explain why if one
19:41
Speaker 10: pilot had stabbed another pilot and the pilot who's stabbing
19:44
Speaker 10: wants to crash the plane and the pilot who's been
19:47
Speaker 10: stabbed is potentially incapacitated, that explains that. presence of a
19:50
Speaker 10: third pilot, if that is true from this sort of
19:52
Speaker 10: secondhand report, would explain how the plane was, thank God,
19:57
Speaker 10: able to safely land in Saudi Arabia.
20:00
Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like such a close call, Michael.
20:03
Speaker 1: Extremely lucky passengers stepped in to help. I mean, you
20:07
Speaker 1: every Israeli has to serve in the defence force. So
20:11
Speaker 1: in a situation like this, you'd be incredibly grateful for that,
20:15
Speaker 1: for the fact that there'd be so many who know
20:17
Speaker 1: how to confront a terrorist.
20:21
Speaker 7: You would.
20:22
Speaker 11: And to add to Joe's reports, one of the reports
20:25
Speaker 11: I've just read say that the pilot with the knife
20:29
Speaker 11: was an Omani and the Victim of the attack came
20:32
Speaker 11: from the UAE itself, and those reports are still being determined.
20:35
Speaker 11: But it does look like a serious incident's taken place,
20:40
Speaker 11: probably an act of terrorism, where the intention was to
20:43
Speaker 11: either crash the plane or crash the plane at Ben Gurion.
20:47
Speaker 12: Who would know?
20:48
Speaker 11: It's obviously going to put this fly-to-buy airline under a
20:51
Speaker 11: huge amount of focus. I've flown them many times, as
20:57
Speaker 11: have others, no doubt, watching this program.
20:59
Speaker 12: So....
21:00
Speaker 11: But, yeah, thank goodness there are some highly trained Israelis
21:04
Speaker 11: on board that plane who were able to take the
21:08
Speaker 11: appropriate measures. You know, there are many people in the
21:13
Speaker 11: Middle East these days, not just Israelis, Shari, but there's
21:16
Speaker 11: many people in the Middle East, particularly Lebanon and other countries,
21:19
Speaker 11: who watch Fowder. So they're fully trained. It's one of
21:23
Speaker 11: the top-rating shows in the UAE and Lebanon, so they're
21:28
Speaker 11: well acquainted with dealing with Palestinian terrorists.
21:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I've just watched it myself as well.
21:33
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean I'd be any better equipped to deal
21:35
Speaker 1: with them, of course, as you say, Michael, but I
21:37
Speaker 1: did love the show. I just want to bring up
21:38
Speaker 1: that footage we were just playing again, and if we
21:41
Speaker 1: can listen to the volume as well. This is when,
21:45
Speaker 1: we'll just show the vision, this is when the plane
21:47
Speaker 1: landed in Saudi Arabia. We don't have the volume, I'm told,
21:51
Speaker 1: but You can see the applause, passengers clapping, just the
21:55
Speaker 1: relief that the plane had landed safely on the ground
21:58
Speaker 1: and And they were all singing.
22:00
Speaker 2: I mean, Joe, it's a reminder.
22:02
Speaker 1: And I do feel at the moment like, you know,
22:04
Speaker 1: particularly in Australia, ASIO Director General Mike Burgess has warned
22:08
Speaker 1: that the terror threat level is high, higher really than
22:12
Speaker 1: the probable. But there's not another category for it. He's
22:14
Speaker 1: doing or there is a review of whether the category
22:17
Speaker 1: should change. But it's just a reminder of the security
22:21
Speaker 1: environment we're all living in now. Like I said, many
22:24
Speaker 1: Australians catch that fly, Dubai flight.
22:27
Speaker 2: I have a couple of times.
22:28
Speaker 10: Yeah, it is obviously terrifying. I mean, we went through
22:31
Speaker 10: that horrendous period in 2013-14 with the rise of ISIS. Previously,
22:35
Speaker 10: al-Qaeda was the most active. And now we could be
22:39
Speaker 10: seeing the dawn of a new kind of wave of terror.
22:42
Speaker 10: We've already had our worst ever terror attack on Australian
22:46
Speaker 10: soil that was specifically targeting Jews. We are now having,
22:51
Speaker 10: you know, again, an attempted hijacking, it seems, of a
22:55
Speaker 10: civilian aircraft, the majority of whose passengers were Jews and
23:00
Speaker 10: which was bound for Israel. I mean, I don't know
23:04
Speaker 10: how much clearer it has to get. And again, before
23:07
Speaker 10: people jump up and down and say, but what about
23:09
Speaker 10: the Israeli government?
23:10
Speaker 7: What about Netanyahu?
23:12
Speaker 10: There is a clear difference both for anyone with any
23:16
Speaker 10: moral clarity and also in the eyes of the law
23:21
Speaker 10: between deliberately targeting civilians, deliberately targeting unarmed, helpless people and
23:30
Speaker 10: conducting a war in which there are civilian casualties as
23:35
Speaker 10: part of, to use that terrible term, collateral damage. And again,
23:39
Speaker 10: that's the difference between October 7th and what has happened,
23:44
Speaker 10: it seems, in the last few hours.
23:46
Speaker 12: Yeah.
23:46
Speaker 1: And I might just report this. The Jerusalem Post is
23:50
Speaker 1: reporting that an Israeli official said it remains unclear what
23:55
Speaker 1: the pilot was attempting to do, whether he intended to
23:57
Speaker 1: hijack the plane to Israel.
23:59
Speaker 2: Crash it to the.
24:00
Speaker 1: Ground or carry out a September 11 style attack.
24:04
Speaker 2: That's the Jerusalem Post reporting.
24:06
Speaker 1: Those are the options that Israeli authorities are examining. But
24:10
Speaker 1: what is clear, the official said, is that he wanted
24:12
Speaker 1: to hijack the aircraft. I mean, this is a very
24:16
Speaker 1: serious situation. And they're reporting, the Post, is that the
24:19
Speaker 1: growing assessment among the Israeli security establishment, Michael, including the
24:23
Speaker 1: IDF Mossad and the Shin Bet, which is the Israel's
24:26
Speaker 1: security agency, is that the incident was intended as an
24:30
Speaker 1: act of terror.
24:31
Speaker 3: Michael?
24:32
Speaker 11: Yeah, well, it certainly looks that way. Question number one,
24:36
Speaker 11: how did he get a knife on board the plane
24:39
Speaker 11: when they would normally be screened? But, Shari, maybe this
24:44
Speaker 11: man was acting as a martyr, potential martyr. We don't
24:48
Speaker 11: know whether he's been killed or not. There's no reports
24:51
Speaker 11: of him being killed, but... Maybe there should be a
24:55
Speaker 11: celebration of this man as a potential martyr in a
24:59
Speaker 11: few weeks' time in Australia where we celebrate and commemorate
25:04
Speaker 11: all of those martyrs who were involved in the slaughter
25:08
Speaker 11: of innocent Jews and people from other nationalities. So this
25:13
Speaker 11: is just another thing the worldwide Jewish community has to
25:17
Speaker 11: put up with. And to all of those people, Shari,
25:21
Speaker 11: that want to commemorate or acknowledge October 7 in Sydney
25:28
Speaker 11: in a few days after or, in one case, on
25:30
Speaker 11: the day of, can I just remind them all that
25:33
Speaker 11: the 1,200 people who were slaughtered by... They weren't slaughtered
25:37
Speaker 11: by Hamas. They were slaughtered by Palestinian men, right? Let's
25:42
Speaker 11: cut out... This is not a company, you know, a company.
25:44
Speaker 1: We're Palestinian terrorists.
25:47
Speaker 11: Men, men, Palestinian men, right? Palestinian men. You say terrorists, yes.
25:51
Speaker 11: They were Palestinian terrorists who were men. They were Palestinian
25:57
Speaker 11: people across the border and killed innocent Jews and people
26:00
Speaker 11: from 52 other countries. So the media keeps talking about
26:04
Speaker 11: Hamas as if it's sort of a $ 2 company that
26:06
Speaker 11: doesn't have any personal, physical embodiment. Now, these were men,
26:11
Speaker 11: many Hamas members, many from other terrorist organisations and many
26:15
Speaker 11: who I understand were not part of any organisation. They
26:17
Speaker 11: just joined in the euphoria of the day, as you
26:19
Speaker 11: would as a normal Palestinian man on that day. So
26:23
Speaker 11: let's be very frank about what happened on that day
26:25
Speaker 11: and who is to blame. Yes, Hamas, yes, Islamic Jihad,
26:28
Speaker 11: et cetera, et cetera, the martyrs' brigade, but these atrocities
26:33
Speaker 11: were committed by Palestinian men on October 7th.
26:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, exactly.
26:39
Speaker 1: And I think the authorities should not allow this pro-Palestinian
26:43
Speaker 1: march on October 7 from Town Hall in Sydney. You know,
26:47
Speaker 1: they've all come out and condemned the rally that happened
26:50
Speaker 1: in 2023, so they should make sure that this one
26:53
Speaker 1: doesn't happen this time.
26:55
Speaker 2: We're out of time.
26:56
Speaker 1: Joe Hildebrand, Michael Kroger, thank you both very much for
26:59
Speaker 1: the live updates. All right, still to come, we'll stay
27:01
Speaker 1: across this hijacked flight. Also, after the break, the man
27:05
Speaker 1: who could be the next Premier of New South Wales,
27:08
Speaker 1: One Nation's Mike Newman, he'll be here live.
27:16
Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning in.
27:17
Speaker 1: Well, this week I've been speaking about the stunning research
27:20
Speaker 1: that shows One Nation is genuinely a contender to form
27:24
Speaker 1: government at the New South Wales election in March. Well,
27:27
Speaker 1: tonight I can exclusively tell you that Labor polling and
27:31
Speaker 1: research also suggests One Nation will either be the opposition
27:36
Speaker 1: or the government after the election, which is just six
27:39
Speaker 1: months away. And this is why Labor is focusing on
27:42
Speaker 1: One Nation in parliamentary question time and why they're all
27:45
Speaker 1: but ignoring Liberal leader Kelly Sloan. So if this research
27:49
Speaker 1: is right, Mike Newman will either be the Premier or
27:52
Speaker 1: Opposition leader come March.
27:54
Speaker 2: And he joins me now. Mike, good to see you.
27:57
Speaker 1: And I've got to congratulate you first on your new
27:59
Speaker 1: baby boy, Max.
28:00
Speaker 2: Thank you. Just five days old.
28:01
Speaker 5: Yeah, he is.
28:02
Speaker 12: Got him home today? Yeah, he's good.
28:05
Speaker 2: Are you awake?
28:05
Speaker 12: I've got an exit pass. I don't sleep much anyway,
28:08
Speaker 12: so it's not really.
28:09
Speaker 7: Much of a change.
28:09
Speaker 1: Are you getting up in the night or leaving it
28:11
Speaker 1: all to your wife?
28:12
Speaker 4: Both.
28:14
Speaker 12: I'm on burping duty.
28:15
Speaker 2: OK, that's good to hear.
28:17
Speaker 1: Look, does this research surprise you? Do you think there's
28:20
Speaker 1: any possibility you could be Premier?
28:22
Speaker 7: Well, look, I mean, the.
28:23
Speaker 12: Polls are saying that. We still have six months to
28:25
Speaker 12: campaign and put forward an agenda which will all be
28:28
Speaker 12: driven by something that is not seen with the incumbent parties,
28:32
Speaker 12: and that is we want to be a party of
28:33
Speaker 12: less government, lower taxes, and people from the private sector
28:37
Speaker 12: running government. We're often criticised for the fact that, you know,
28:40
Speaker 12: we've not run government before, but I would argue that
28:43
Speaker 12: the incumbent governments have not been running business very well,
28:45
Speaker 12: so we think that the reverse.
28:47
Speaker 1: So you're saying lower taxes, private sector and.
28:50
Speaker 12: Well, basically getting out of... your life, getting government to
28:54
Speaker 12: be as minimal as possible.
28:56
Speaker 1: So if this is right and you become premier, what
28:59
Speaker 1: are the first three things you do?
29:00
Speaker 12: Well, first of all, payroll tax. We want to halve
29:04
Speaker 12: it in the metros and abolish it pretty much, or
29:07
Speaker 12: at least cut it to zero in the regions. Obviously
29:09
Speaker 12: there will be thresholds, but the idea is to stimulate
29:11
Speaker 12: business and get those companies who are bumping up against
29:14
Speaker 12: that payroll threshold and allowing them to go through. So
29:17
Speaker 12: to do that, we also want to be very hard
29:19
Speaker 12: on crime. especially around youth crime. We've had a lot
29:22
Speaker 12: of issues around that. And energy is probably one of
29:25
Speaker 12: the highest things where we want to prioritise coal, coal-fired power,
29:28
Speaker 12: also lift the bans on uranium and nuclear power.
29:31
Speaker 4: Yeah.
29:32
Speaker 1: You've said that you're inspired by Javier Millet. He has,
29:38
Speaker 1: just in terms of his attitude to the public, service,
29:40
Speaker 1: getting the public service down, how many.
29:43
Speaker 2: Workers would you sack?
29:44
Speaker 7: Oh, look, no.
29:45
Speaker 12: I think Millet was dealing with an Argentine. It was
29:48
Speaker 12: an absolute basket case. We're heading in that direction if
29:50
Speaker 12: we keep going the way we are. We're not looking
29:52
Speaker 12: at wholesale cuts. We actually want to beef up emergency
29:55
Speaker 12: services on the front line. But we want to be
29:58
Speaker 12: streamlining a lot of the duplication that's going on within
30:00
Speaker 12: the public service. So, yes, Harvey MLA comes from the
30:03
Speaker 12: private sector and putting private sector metrics into making the
30:06
Speaker 12: public service more efficient. That's what we want.
30:08
Speaker 2: So how much would you bring it down by?
30:10
Speaker 12: Look, there's going to be a lot of natural attrition,
30:12
Speaker 12: which is sort of between 5% and 8% per year.
30:14
Speaker 12: So some of those roles just won't be replaced.
30:17
Speaker 1: So you'd be cutting the public service by about 8%?
30:19
Speaker 12: No, no, no. What we need to look at here
30:22
Speaker 12: is which parts where there is duplication.
30:26
Speaker 2: Which parts would you cut?
30:28
Speaker 12: Well, if I look at things like EnergyCo and also
30:32
Speaker 12: the Department of Climate Change, there is so much duplication
30:34
Speaker 12: in that organisation and we want to abolish a lot
30:37
Speaker 12: of that department because we think it's not fit for
30:39
Speaker 12: purpose and it's clearly showing in the results that energy
30:42
Speaker 12: is going the wrong way.
30:44
Speaker 1: You're running in Cessnock a safe Labor seat. You've been
30:48
Speaker 1: critical of the health services there. Would you be open
30:51
Speaker 1: to using the private sector to help improve delivery of
30:54
Speaker 1: health to people?
30:55
Speaker 12: But we'll look at anything that makes sense, right? I mean,
30:58
Speaker 12: we look at a cost performance basis. At the moment,
31:00
Speaker 12: Cessnock Hospital doesn't have doctors and the nursing is putting
31:04
Speaker 12: a lot of pressure on people going to John Hunter
31:06
Speaker 12: in Newcastle. So we're seeing a lot of those regional hospitals,
31:09
Speaker 12: people just giving up, going to Hunter, and if the
31:11
Speaker 12: Hunter queues are too long, they'll just end up coming
31:13
Speaker 12: to Sydney. So we want to fix that and put...
31:16
Speaker 12: We really want to speak to the rank and file
31:17
Speaker 12: to understand where the bottlenecks are.
31:19
Speaker 2: So bringing in private doctors and nurses to help with that?
31:21
Speaker 12: Well, if that's what makes sense, right? That's not a
31:24
Speaker 12: policy at this stage, but we will look at what
31:26
Speaker 12: makes sense to get health services to the public quicker
31:30
Speaker 12: at the most affordable cost.
31:32
Speaker 1: It's well known that Angus Taylor and Pauline Hanson don't have.
31:36
Speaker 2: a good relationship.
31:37
Speaker 1: I reported this week that, you know, by contrast, you
31:40
Speaker 1: and Kelly Sloan do have a respectful personal relationship.
31:44
Speaker 2: Do you speak? Do you text?
31:46
Speaker 12: Well, we've had a few chats together. But look, I mean,
31:48
Speaker 12: this is there's no animus, put it that way. I mean,
31:50
Speaker 12: to be honest, I've been focused on child rearing at
31:53
Speaker 12: the moment.
31:53
Speaker 2: But, you know, and really getting five days.
31:55
Speaker 12: Yes, that's true. But leading up to that, of course,
31:57
Speaker 12: but also getting our party ready. Obviously, we're going to
32:00
Speaker 12: get candidates announced in short order. And that's obviously where
32:03
Speaker 12: the focus is at the moment because we really want
32:05
Speaker 12: to put some very high-calibre candidates forward.
32:07
Speaker 1: But you do have a personal relationship with Kelly Sloan?
32:10
Speaker 12: Yeah, we'll work on that for sure.
32:12
Speaker 1: And if you were in a position where you couldn't
32:16
Speaker 1: quite form government, would you be open to forming a
32:19
Speaker 1: governing alliance with her, with the Coalition?
32:22
Speaker 12: Well, look, we would certainly be wanting to work with
32:24
Speaker 12: any party that wants to get rid of this Labor government.
32:27
Speaker 12: That goes without saying. We think that, at the moment,
32:30
Speaker 12: if we keep going down this current trajectory... New South
32:34
Speaker 12: Wales and Australia more broadly will be going into very
32:37
Speaker 12: dangerous territory. That's why I want to bring business acumen
32:40
Speaker 12: straight forward into... But if you.
32:42
Speaker 1: Can't form government outright, would you be looking at forming
32:45
Speaker 1: an alliance with the Coalition?
32:46
Speaker 12: We would certainly consider it.
32:48
Speaker 1: Have you started having any of those conversations?
32:50
Speaker 12: Not into that depth as yet. I think that, you know,
32:53
Speaker 12: we need to see how the election is playing out
32:56
Speaker 12: in terms of campaigning. But certainly we would have those conversations.
32:58
Speaker 2: You would like to have those conversations.
32:59
Speaker 12: Well, hopefully if we can win outright, we won't need
33:02
Speaker 12: that need.
33:03
Speaker 2: Have you done research and polling?
33:06
Speaker 12: We're doing our own internal polling.
33:07
Speaker 1: And how strong does.
33:09
Speaker 2: It say you go?
33:09
Speaker 12: Pretty much what you're seeing there is pretty close to
33:13
Speaker 12: what the numbers we're receiving.
33:14
Speaker 1: You're saying you could win?
33:16
Speaker 12: Look, we're not quite at those numbers, but certainly more
33:20
Speaker 12: up-to-date polling may certainly suggest it's going that way.
33:23
Speaker 1: And you're expecting to win Cessnock, the safe labour seat?
33:26
Speaker 7: Well, I've got to work hard to do that.
33:27
Speaker 1: Is it true you're in your low 40s, your primary's
33:29
Speaker 1: in the low 40s?
33:30
Speaker 12: Could be even higher.
33:31
Speaker 2: Wow, amazing.
33:32
Speaker 1: Mike Newman, I'll have to get you back on again
33:34
Speaker 1: because we're just crunched for time tonight with this breaking
33:37
Speaker 1: news of the hijacked flight. But thank you so much
33:39
Speaker 1: for being here and again. Congratulations on Little Max. Good
33:42
Speaker 1: to hear you're getting up at night to help your wife.
33:44
Speaker 12: Thank you.
33:44
Speaker 4: Thanks.
33:46
Speaker 1: All right, still to come, the daughter of a Bondi
33:48
Speaker 1: hero joins me live with her new special miracle. A
33:52
Speaker 1: lot of babies tonight. And Dave Sharma with the latest
33:55
Speaker 1: on this flight out of Israel.
33:57
Speaker 2: That's next. Welcome back.
34:02
Speaker 1: Well, let's start with the latest on the hijacked fly
34:05
Speaker 1: Dubai flight to Israel that landed in Saudi Arabia after
34:08
Speaker 1: reports that One of the pilots attempted to hijack the plane,
34:12
Speaker 1: stabbing his co-pilot. We're learning now, thanks to the Times
34:16
Speaker 1: of Israel, that a passenger moments after a fight on
34:19
Speaker 1: the plane said, and I quote, there was a hijacking,
34:23
Speaker 1: we've subdued the terrorists, we need help.
34:26
Speaker 2: And there's a.
34:27
Speaker 1: Video reportedly taken with a passenger with blood on his face.
34:31
Speaker 1: He tells the camera in Hebrew, we're here during the
34:34
Speaker 1: hijacking of an airplane. At this point, we've subdued the terrorist.
34:37
Speaker 1: We're approaching landing. Whoever is hearing me, we need help.
34:41
Speaker 1: They're saying they're landing in an unknown area. Everyone is
34:44
Speaker 1: safe other than the pilot. Another passenger on the plane
34:48
Speaker 1: said a terrorist crew member tried to crash the plane.
34:51
Speaker 1: He was speaking to Israel's Channel 12. And she says
34:55
Speaker 1: her husband helped to neutralise the terrorist on board the flight.
35:00
Speaker 1: She said someone was shouting, stabbing, and her husband immediately
35:05
Speaker 1: understood what was happening and rushed to the front of
35:07
Speaker 1: the plane. Along with other Israelis, they neutralised the terrorists.
35:11
Speaker 1: There were stabbings and a lot of blood, Maytal says.
35:14
Speaker 1: We're very emotional and under terrible stress. And joining me
35:18
Speaker 1: now is former Australian Ambassador to Israel and Shadow Minister
35:23
Speaker 1: Dave Sharma. Dave, good to see you. What's your reaction
35:27
Speaker 1: to this news that's emerging?
35:29
Speaker 13: Look, it's terrifying for the passengers. If you've seen some
35:32
Speaker 13: of the footage from inside the plane or the eyewitness
35:35
Speaker 13: accounts afterwards, it's obviously a suspected terror incident, a terrorist attack,
35:41
Speaker 13: which Israeli authorities have confirmed as much and being investigated
35:44
Speaker 13: as such. At this stage, it's unclear whether the intent
35:47
Speaker 13: was to crash the plane, to use the plane as
35:50
Speaker 13: a missile or a weapon, like a September the 11th
35:52
Speaker 13: style attack. But many people who travel to Israel, including
35:56
Speaker 13: many Australians and myself included, have been on that flight
35:59
Speaker 13: or similar, been on a flight to Dubai between Dubai
36:01
Speaker 13: and Tel Aviv. And I think, you know, this feels
36:05
Speaker 13: like the 1970s again when these sorts of terrorist attacks
36:08
Speaker 13: took place far too often on passenger aircraft.
36:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it comes just days after, you know, that
36:15
Speaker 1: reportedly attempted terror plot with explosives, the white vans in
36:19
Speaker 1: the UK near the Air Force base. Now this, just
36:23
Speaker 1: a few days apart.
36:25
Speaker 2: And, you know, it is.
36:27
Speaker 1: As you say, we don't know the motivation, but for
36:29
Speaker 1: anyone who's caught that flight, the security seems to be
36:32
Speaker 1: really strong. They check everyone's bags.
36:35
Speaker 7: They do.
36:36
Speaker 13: And, look, obviously it seems like it was one of
36:39
Speaker 13: the pilots who's the person of interest here. They obviously
36:43
Speaker 13: are subject to somewhat different security and screening arrangements, but
36:46
Speaker 13: you'd think that their backstory vetting should be much stronger
36:49
Speaker 13: than for any passenger. And, obviously, Israeli security authorities are
36:53
Speaker 13: present at Dubai Airport as well as in Tel Aviv.
36:56
Speaker 13: they're involved in the vetting, the security, the scanning of
36:59
Speaker 13: bags and whatnot. So if this pilot has indeed attempted
37:03
Speaker 13: a terrorist attack, it's a security failure.
37:05
Speaker 1: Incredible, the stories that are emerging of one of the pilots,
37:08
Speaker 1: you know, broadcasting the message to the rest of the
37:11
Speaker 1: plane that he needs help and the Israeli passengers, you know,
37:15
Speaker 1: just running in there to help him.
37:17
Speaker 4: It is.
37:17
Speaker 13: I mean, it sounds like there was some heroics on board.
37:19
Speaker 13: It reminds me a little of one of the 9-11
37:22
Speaker 13: hijacked planes that was heading, I think, crashed outside Washington
37:25
Speaker 13: where the passengers subdued the pilot and prevented a worse
37:29
Speaker 13: disaster but lost their lives in the process. But it
37:31
Speaker 13: sounds like there's been some incredible heroics from the passengers
37:34
Speaker 13: on board the plane, It sounds like it's averted what
37:37
Speaker 13: would have been a terrible disaster.
37:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm sure we'll hear more about those stories
37:41
Speaker 1: in the coming hours and days. I just want to
37:43
Speaker 1: get your reaction to inflation today. Obviously, you jumped to 4%
37:48
Speaker 1: this after the 16th rate rise under the Albanese government yesterday.
37:53
Speaker 1: Albanese blamed Scott Morrison when there was just one rate rise,
37:55
Speaker 1: but now they're saying it's the Iran war.
37:59
Speaker 13: Their arguments simply do not stack up. I mean, why
38:02
Speaker 13: does inflation in Australia have a four in front of
38:04
Speaker 13: it in no other advanced economy? Why has the Reserve
38:07
Speaker 13: Bank been forced to increase interest rates four times already
38:10
Speaker 13: this year and every other central bank has only had
38:12
Speaker 13: to do it once? Why is the budget not in
38:14
Speaker 13: surplus when every mainstream economist says commodity prices and the
38:18
Speaker 13: point we're at in the economic cycle means we should
38:21
Speaker 13: be in surplus? And why does the Reserve Bank governor
38:23
Speaker 13: keep making the obvious point that... demand, public sector demand,
38:28
Speaker 13: government spending is fuelling this inflation and inflation is a
38:31
Speaker 13: homegrown problem. I don't think it's credible for Jim Chalmers
38:34
Speaker 13: and Anthony Albanese to blame external factors or the state
38:38
Speaker 13: of Hormuz or anything else because no other advanced economy
38:40
Speaker 13: is dealing with the pain that Australians are.
38:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, our inflation is the highest by far.
38:47
Speaker 1: But both Jim Chalmers and, you know, the Albanese government, sorry,
38:52
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister tried to say both he was right
38:54
Speaker 1: and Michelle Bullock was right, but They can't both be right.
38:57
Speaker 1: You know, the Treasurer is saying the Iran war is
38:59
Speaker 1: the main factor for the high inflation, but Michelle Bullock's
39:03
Speaker 1: saying these are domestic pressures that were there before the
39:06
Speaker 1: war started.
39:07
Speaker 2: And the war is contributing to that.
39:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
39:10
Speaker 13: I mean, Jim Chalmers is trying to make excuses here
39:14
Speaker 13: and trying to blame external factors. He was critical of
39:17
Speaker 13: the previous government saying they didn't take responsibility when interest
39:20
Speaker 13: rates went up once. Well, they've gone up 16 times
39:22
Speaker 13: under his watch.
39:23
Speaker 9: Mm.
39:25
Speaker 13: Every mainstream economist from the RBA to former RBA governors
39:28
Speaker 13: to former secretaries of the Treasury Department, Ken Henry, Martin Parkinson,
39:32
Speaker 13: are all saying it's excessive government spending and no productivity.
39:36
Speaker 13: Those are both failings of this Labor government.
39:40
Speaker 1: Dave, I just want to quickly play you comments that
39:42
Speaker 1: the Foreign Minister, Penny Wong, made at the United Nations
39:45
Speaker 1: last week.
39:46
Speaker 2: Have a look at this.
39:48
Speaker 3: In the West Bank, the situation is worsening.
39:50
Speaker 13: In the first six months of this year alone, settler
39:52
Speaker 13: violence has driven more than 15,000 children from their homes.
39:57
Speaker 1: So Penny Wong's saying that violence in the West Bank
40:02
Speaker 1: meant that 15,000 children were displaced from their homes. Dave,
40:05
Speaker 1: the United Nations figure is 1,000. Israel's foreign ministry has
40:11
Speaker 1: called this a blatant lie.
40:13
Speaker 2: Should she correct the record?
40:14
Speaker 13: Absolutely, she should. And I'm surprised that she hasn't done so.
40:17
Speaker 13: I mean, if If she has evidence or statistics to
40:20
Speaker 13: back up the figure she cited, she should put that
40:22
Speaker 13: out publicly. If not, she should apologise and she should
40:26
Speaker 13: withdraw that remark. I mean, I see she's got spokespeople
40:29
Speaker 13: out in the media saying, offering some explanations. She needs
40:33
Speaker 13: to publicly front up and own this because that is
40:35
Speaker 13: an outrageous thing to get wrong, accusing another nation of this.
40:38
Speaker 13: Israel's foreign ministry has obviously asked for an explanation. To date,
40:42
Speaker 13: she has not given one. And that's a very dangerous
40:44
Speaker 13: thing to be misleading people about.
40:46
Speaker 1: Well, and I put in questions to her yesterday as well,
40:49
Speaker 1: and she would not on the record say where the
40:52
Speaker 1: source of the figures or correct the record or explain
40:55
Speaker 1: where she got them from. And I sent back to
40:57
Speaker 1: her office the United Nations figures showing it was only
41:00
Speaker 1: 1,000 children. And as you know, those are likely inflated figures.
41:03
Speaker 1: But there's also the point 51,000 Israeli children have been
41:07
Speaker 1: displaced from the north and the south.
41:10
Speaker 2: And she doesn't mention that.
41:12
Speaker 13: No, absolutely right. And look, we will be pursuing this
41:14
Speaker 13: when the Senate is in estimates. Next time around because
41:17
Speaker 13: I want to know where she got this figure from.
41:18
Speaker 9: Oh, good.
41:19
Speaker 2: I'm glad to hear that.
41:19
Speaker 1: I look forward to it. Dave, thank you so much
41:21
Speaker 1: for your time.
41:22
Speaker 4: Thank you.
41:24
Speaker 1: Well, Shana Gutnick's courageous father, Reuven Morrison, was gunned down
41:27
Speaker 1: at Bondi and he'll be remembered for heroically running toward
41:31
Speaker 1: the gunfire and hurling a bottle or canister.
41:35
Speaker 2: At Sajid Akram during the massacre. It cost him his life.
41:39
Speaker 1: Now, not long after this, Shaina had some news that
41:43
Speaker 1: she was pregnant and she joins me now from Melbourne
41:45
Speaker 1: with her beautiful new baby girl, Shaina. So wonderful to
41:49
Speaker 1: see you again and congratulations, Mazel Tov. Tell us what
41:52
Speaker 1: you've named your baby and the significance of the name
41:55
Speaker 1: you've chosen.
41:56
Speaker 14: Thanks, Shari. Such a pleasure to be here. So we
42:01
Speaker 14: did find out that we were expecting quite soon after Bondi,
42:04
Speaker 14: which was a lot to deal with at the time.
42:07
Speaker 14: but she's been such an incredible blessing and choosing a
42:10
Speaker 14: name was really difficult. We really wanted to sort of
42:13
Speaker 14: honor my dad, help her feel joy and pride in
42:17
Speaker 14: who she is. And ultimately we landed on Ariella Yehudis.
42:22
Speaker 14: So literal translation.
42:24
Speaker 2: Yeah, the little translation.
42:25
Speaker 1: Maybe if we can move the strap so we can
42:26
Speaker 1: see Ariella's beautiful face, if we can move the.
42:29
Speaker 2: Oh, sure. No, no, that's not you. I'm talking to
42:31
Speaker 2: my producers.
42:32
Speaker 1: If we can move the strap so we can see... Yeah,
42:35
Speaker 1: there we go.
42:35
Speaker 7: Oh, she's beautiful.
42:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
42:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, so Ariella means... You were saying the translation?
42:41
Speaker 14: The literal translation is a lioness of God. And we
42:46
Speaker 14: feel that really embodies who her grandfather was his whole life.
42:49
Speaker 14: He was a protector and a fighter for those that
42:52
Speaker 14: he loved. And in the last 10 minutes of his life,
42:55
Speaker 14: the world really got to see that part of him
42:57
Speaker 14: as well. And Yehudas literally means as well a Jewish woman.
43:01
Speaker 14: But she was also the heroine in the Hanukkah story
43:05
Speaker 14: who risked her own life to save the Jewish nation.
43:09
Speaker 14: and helped the Jews ultimately win the war during the
43:13
Speaker 14: story of Hanukkah. So we felt that we could give
43:16
Speaker 14: her that pride in her identity. She's literally a Jewish woman.
43:20
Speaker 14: We wanted to feel ultimate joy in that and honor
43:24
Speaker 14: my dad, her grandfather, who were really broken that he
43:28
Speaker 14: won't be able to hold her physically, but we really,
43:31
Speaker 14: really feel that he sent her down to us and
43:34
Speaker 14: we know they spent some nice time up there together
43:36
Speaker 14: and he had obviously given him one of his big,
43:39
Speaker 14: beautiful hugs before she came down.
43:41
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so beautiful.
43:42
Speaker 1: And he's obviously, he was such a wonderful grandfather. Shaina,
43:46
Speaker 1: one of the lines in our book that I love
43:49
Speaker 1: so much and that so many people have remarked to
43:51
Speaker 1: us on is when your husband says that the same
43:54
Speaker 1: DNA running through your dad's veins, you know, that courage
43:59
Speaker 1: runs through yours, which is why you stood up so
44:02
Speaker 1: strongly fighting with the government to.
44:04
Speaker 2: Hold the Royal Commission. And now, no doubt.
44:07
Speaker 1: that strength will be passed on to your daughter.
44:11
Speaker 14: God willing, absolutely.
44:12
Speaker 9: Yeah.
44:14
Speaker 14: But there's not too much pressure with the name.
44:16
Speaker 2: No, no, no doubt. Well, she's absolutely beautiful.
44:20
Speaker 1: And thank you so much for tuning in amid all
44:22
Speaker 1: the sleepless nights and the mayhem and the breastfeeding and Shaina.
44:27
Speaker 7: We forget about that.
44:28
Speaker 2: We do. It goes so quickly though. Enjoy it.
44:31
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see you in Melbourne and and
44:33
Speaker 1: give your beautiful baby a cuddle. Thank you so much
44:36
Speaker 1: for tuning in with us tonight.
44:39
Speaker 4: Likewise.
44:39
Speaker 14: Thanks for having us.
44:40
Speaker 2: Thanks. All right.
44:43
Speaker 1: After the break, President Trump's major AI announcement.
44:46
Speaker 2: That's next. Welcome back.
44:53
Speaker 1: We're over to the US, where President Donald Trump and
44:55
Speaker 1: top tech executives have signed an accord, which will see
44:59
Speaker 1: them self-regulate artificial intelligence. The president was assured that the
45:04
Speaker 1: companies could be trusted to self-police.
45:07
Speaker 9: Well, there's a belief that there should be tremendous self-regulation,
45:11
Speaker 9: and we automatically have regulation with the Department of Justice,
45:15
Speaker 9: the FBI, all of that. And they're going to work
45:17
Speaker 9: with local communities for the data centres in particular, and
45:21
Speaker 9: they're going to work to make the community happy.
45:25
Speaker 1: And to discuss joining me now is Pangana Capital Chief
45:28
Speaker 1: Executive Russell Pillimer. Russell, thanks for your time again. Is
45:32
Speaker 1: this a good announcement and how will it work?
45:34
Speaker 15: So, Shari, Donald Trump's sole aim here is to beat
45:38
Speaker 15: China when it comes to AI, to develop AI systems
45:42
Speaker 15: faster than China is. And he realises that if the
45:46
Speaker 15: bureaucracy is involved and the government is involved, it will
45:50
Speaker 15: slow things down. They won't understand what they're doing and
45:53
Speaker 15: they'll get in the way. So he's put the full
45:56
Speaker 15: onus back on the industry to regulate themselves. And I
46:00
Speaker 15: think it will work in this instance because these owners
46:04
Speaker 15: of the AI businesses are very keen to be regulated,
46:08
Speaker 15: number one. Number two, they also realise that if they
46:10
Speaker 15: don't regulate properly, then everything will come down on them.
46:14
Speaker 15: They could be sued. The government could take action, et cetera.
46:17
Speaker 15: So I think this actually is quite a workable solution.
46:20
Speaker 1: And as you say, they have been the ones calling
46:22
Speaker 1: for regulation. So instead of Trump trying to sort that out,
46:26
Speaker 1: he's saying you do this. And they've set up a
46:29
Speaker 1: body of sorts, haven't they?
46:30
Speaker 2: A governing body?
46:31
Speaker 15: Yeah, there'll be a governing body and it will be audited.
46:35
Speaker 15: So there'll be lots of structure around it, but you
46:38
Speaker 15: won't have the government sitting on top of it telling
46:40
Speaker 15: them what to do. So I think that's the big difference.
46:44
Speaker 1: It's interesting that this flies in the face of everything
46:47
Speaker 1: Anthony Albanese, our Prime Minister, was trying to do when
46:50
Speaker 1: he was in the States last week.
46:53
Speaker 15: Yeah, so there was a lot of talk and a
46:56
Speaker 15: lot of public statements that were made. I think it's
46:59
Speaker 15: a silly idea to talk about global regulation of AI.
47:04
Speaker 15: We know it's not going to happen. The Chinese don't
47:07
Speaker 15: want it to happen. The Americans don't want it to happen.
47:10
Speaker 15: And it doesn't actually make sense. So I think that
47:12
Speaker 15: rather than hop on that bandwagon together with some other
47:15
Speaker 15: countries for political gain, we're much better off trying to
47:18
Speaker 15: align ourselves with the Americans and trying to operate alongside
47:23
Speaker 15: open AI and anthropic, et cetera. The complaints about open
47:29
Speaker 15: AI accessing government systems.
47:32
Speaker 2: Like Medicare.
47:33
Speaker 15: Like Medicare.
47:34
Speaker 1: Yeah.
47:35
Speaker 15: That's not the game. That's not really what we should
47:37
Speaker 15: be talking about. What we should be talking about is
47:40
Speaker 15: how we actually should be asking open AI to come
47:43
Speaker 15: in and attack our systems to find the holes in
47:46
Speaker 15: our systems.
47:46
Speaker 14: Oh, right.
47:47
Speaker 2: As a defence.
47:48
Speaker 13: Yeah.
47:49
Speaker 10: Because.
47:51
Speaker 15: The AI that's been developed by the best AI businesses,
47:56
Speaker 15: what we call the frontier labs, they only maybe a
47:59
Speaker 15: year or a year and a half ahead of the
48:01
Speaker 15: other AI systems.
48:03
Speaker 1: From hostile nations like China.
48:05
Speaker 7: Absolutely.
48:07
Speaker 15: And by anyone.
48:08
Speaker 2: Russia.
48:09
Speaker 15: So there's these open systems that can be used by anyone.
48:12
Speaker 15: And they're not far behind. So what you need to
48:14
Speaker 15: do is get ahead of them and find out where
48:17
Speaker 15: the holes are and then plug the holes. So you
48:21
Speaker 15: insulate yourself against those rogue agents. That is the game.
48:24
Speaker 2: That's so interesting. That's really interesting. Look, I have no confidence.
48:29
Speaker 1: I don't think the cyber security of any Australian government
48:32
Speaker 1: website is particularly strong to begin with, and that was
48:35
Speaker 1: before AI, so there is a.
48:37
Speaker 2: Lot to improve there.
48:39
Speaker 1: Russell, I want to get your view on how dire
48:42
Speaker 1: Australia's economic outlook is. Of course, we have the CPI
48:45
Speaker 1: data today. Inflation's gone up to 4%, plus the rate
48:49
Speaker 1: rise yesterday, probably one or two more to come this year.
48:54
Speaker 12: Yes, so, look.
48:56
Speaker 15: This is quite infuriating, I must say. I think it's
48:59
Speaker 15: very unfair because what's happened here is that the government
49:03
Speaker 15: has put the full onus on mortgage holders in order
49:07
Speaker 15: to correct the inflation problem. So if you have a mortgage,
49:11
Speaker 15: you've got a problem. You've got to help solve the problem.
49:14
Speaker 15: If you don't have a mortgage, you're insulated. You're not suffering.
49:20
Speaker 15: Or if you have cash in the bank, you're actually
49:22
Speaker 15: doing quite well. You're getting paid extra interest. So it's
49:26
Speaker 15: directed against a very specific group of people. And those
49:29
Speaker 15: people can't afford it. Those people having good faith, gone
49:32
Speaker 15: out and bought houses and taken out mortgages. And now
49:35
Speaker 15: they're the ones who have been forced to suffer. because
49:38
Speaker 15: the government is not taking action, both in terms of
49:41
Speaker 15: productivity and in terms of reducing government expenditure. It's still
49:46
Speaker 15: not too late, by the way. The government should be
49:49
Speaker 15: putting in place some emergency actions in order to try
49:52
Speaker 15: and rectify things. They should be, you know, they should be.
49:56
Speaker 2: Like what?
49:56
Speaker 15: Well, things like, you know, slash red tape that will
49:59
Speaker 15: help with productivity.
50:01
Speaker 12: Stop hiring.
50:02
Speaker 15: Put a hiring freeze on. Don't hire any more people
50:05
Speaker 15: into the bureaucracy. Defer expenditure where you can. You know,
50:10
Speaker 15: if you're a household and you have a holiday that's
50:12
Speaker 15: planned for next month. Well, you're not taking it. You
50:16
Speaker 15: defer it for next year. The government should be doing
50:18
Speaker 15: the exact same thing. Stop the expenditure where you can.
50:21
Speaker 15: Really tighten your belts. Because the government doesn't seem to
50:25
Speaker 15: recognise that there is a problem, so they're not taking action.
50:28
Speaker 15: And so first recognise it and then take immediate action.
50:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's a good point because this isn't
50:33
Speaker 1: just about political spin when the Treasurer talks about the
50:37
Speaker 1: Iran war. It's also actually acknowledging, as you say, that
50:40
Speaker 1: they have a responsibility and not to.
50:42
Speaker 2: Just put the total burden... on mortgage holders?
50:45
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
50:46
Speaker 15: It starts with recognition of the issue. And they shouldn't
50:50
Speaker 15: feel that there's weakness. I think that because for so
50:54
Speaker 15: long they've resisted recognition, so they feel they can't recognise
50:59
Speaker 15: it now. They can't admit that their spending's a problem. Yeah,
51:02
Speaker 15: and so what they're saying is, yeah, at the moment
51:04
Speaker 15: that is an issue, but in a year or two
51:07
Speaker 15: it will all be OK. Well, a lot of people
51:09
Speaker 15: haven't got a year or two to wait. and to
51:11
Speaker 15: pay higher mortgage rates.
51:12
Speaker 2: It's true.
51:13
Speaker 1: There's a lot of financial pain. Russell Pillimer, great to
51:16
Speaker 1: have you on the show, as always, on a Wednesday.
51:18
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
51:18
Speaker 4: Thanks.
51:20
Speaker 1: And thanks, everyone, for your company this week.
51:22
Speaker 2: Here's the great Paul Murray.