Latest / Legally Brunette / Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Regina Rowe-Hicks’ Decades Long Cold Case

Transcript

Legally Brunette Presents: ‘Til Death Do Us Part - Regina Rowe-Hicks’ Decades Long Cold Case · Legally Brunette

0:01
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Welcome to an episode of Till Death Do
0:04
Speaker 1: Us Part. I'll be your host, Emily Simpson with Shane Shane.
0:09
Speaker 1: All right, Shane, today, we're just going to do a
0:11
Speaker 1: little update before we get into the case that we're
0:14
Speaker 1: going to talk about. And the case that we're going
0:16
Speaker 1: to talk about is a woman named Regina Rowe Hicks
0:19
Speaker 1: and it's an older case that was just recently solved,
0:22
Speaker 1: so it's really interesting. But before we get into that,
0:25
Speaker 1: let's do an update on David and the Celeste Rivus Hernandez. So, prosecutors,
0:31
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen this is the singer
0:33
Speaker 1: David that remember they found his tesla and then they
0:36
Speaker 1: body in the back and it was a long time.
0:38
Speaker 1: It was in the front that's right, the front front,
0:42
Speaker 1: the fronk. Is that what it's called front trunk, the
0:46
Speaker 1: front trunk, the fronk. And then there was a long
0:50
Speaker 1: period of time between when the body was found and
0:52
Speaker 1: then actually arresting him. But now that he's been arrested,
0:55
Speaker 1: there's a lot more information that has been coming out,
0:58
Speaker 1: which is is.
0:58
Speaker 2: He still in custody? Is he dislike detained this whole time?
1:01
Speaker 1: So prosecutors alleged that David Burke oh I also did
1:05
Speaker 1: read that his music label dropped him, so yeah, yeah,
1:08
Speaker 1: really yeah. David Burke arranged for Celeste to be transported
1:13
Speaker 1: to his Hollywood Hills home on April twenty third, twenty
1:16
Speaker 1: twenty five, and stabbed her to silence her, claiming that
1:21
Speaker 1: she was threatening to expose their relationship, which would have
1:24
Speaker 1: damaged his music career.
1:25
Speaker 2: Murder would damage your your career also.
1:28
Speaker 1: But instead of just you know, trying to do the
1:32
Speaker 1: right thing and break up and take accountability for it,
1:35
Speaker 1: he decides that.
1:36
Speaker 2: He should put her in the front.
1:38
Speaker 1: Well, he has to stab her first, so he has
1:41
Speaker 1: her come over to his home on April twenty third. Allegedly,
1:44
Speaker 1: Burke also bought two chainsaws online and he used the
1:48
Speaker 1: chainsaws to dismember Celeste's body what in an inflatable pool.
1:53
Speaker 1: He also ordered the pool one of those plastics like
1:57
Speaker 1: bard kit. Yeah, her DNA was found in his garage.
2:03
Speaker 1: He used someone else's name to purchase the chainsaws and
2:08
Speaker 1: the inflatable pool, but the but they were delivered to
2:11
Speaker 1: his home. So that's like as far as he went.
2:14
Speaker 1: And this like mastermind of like getting rid of this body.
2:17
Speaker 1: Is I'll just use someone else's name to purchase it,
2:20
Speaker 1: and then it just gets delivered to my home address.
2:23
Speaker 2: And why do you want two chainsaws?
2:25
Speaker 1: I guess he thought maybe if the first one broke,
2:27
Speaker 1: he had a backup. I don't know, but he ordered
2:29
Speaker 1: two chainsaws and one of those little plastic kitty inflatable pools.
2:33
Speaker 2: And that was so heasy, have any kids, No, but he.
2:36
Speaker 1: Put the He clearly put her body into the pool
2:40
Speaker 1: and then dismembered her inside of this plastic pool in
2:44
Speaker 1: order to keep you know, all the blood and everything
2:47
Speaker 1: you know, within this plastic pool. Her DNA was found
2:51
Speaker 1: in his garage. The court filing claims that Burke amputated
2:54
Speaker 1: her left ring and pinky fingers because her ring finger
2:57
Speaker 1: contained a tattoo of his name. Her fingers have not
3:01
Speaker 1: been recovered. They say that Celeste was killed with two
3:05
Speaker 1: penetrating torso wounds consistent with sharp force injuries, per the
3:09
Speaker 1: autopsy report that was unsealed on April twenty second of
3:12
Speaker 1: twenty twenty six. Prosecutors have also alleged that David Burke
3:18
Speaker 1: did a radio interview the morning after the killing. A
3:22
Speaker 1: widely recirculated clip shows him previously explaining a foul smell
3:27
Speaker 1: in his home. I saw that clip on Instagram. It
3:30
Speaker 1: was him with some friends at his house and he
3:33
Speaker 1: was like joking around making reference to like just ignore
3:36
Speaker 1: that smell, like he claimed it was because he just
3:39
Speaker 1: went to the bathroom or something. But I believe that
3:41
Speaker 1: clearly he was like indicating.
3:43
Speaker 2: That this video of him saying that.
3:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, that it was around the same time that she
3:47
Speaker 1: is his cari.
3:47
Speaker 2: Why does it keep her in the car until he
3:50
Speaker 2: sells it or what.
3:51
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't understand. I don't understand how.
3:54
Speaker 2: Like the kid that hides the underwear in the drawer
3:56
Speaker 2: and I think no one's going to see it, but
3:58
Speaker 2: it's like eventually you gotta do something, right.
4:00
Speaker 1: I mean, his plan was nothing other than she's going
4:02
Speaker 1: to expose me for an inappropriate relationship, which is going
4:05
Speaker 1: to ruin my music career. So let me have her
4:08
Speaker 1: come over to my house. I'm going to murder her
4:10
Speaker 1: and then I'm going to dismember her in my garage
4:12
Speaker 1: and then I'm gonna take the remains. I'm gonna put
4:14
Speaker 1: him in my tesla, and then I'm just gonna leave
4:16
Speaker 1: my tesla. Parks on the side of the road, Like
4:18
Speaker 1: that's as far as he got, first of all, to
4:21
Speaker 1: be able to dismember a body that takes a special
4:24
Speaker 1: kind of psychopath I'll never understand that. I can't even
4:30
Speaker 1: I can't even like when my nail breaks and I
4:33
Speaker 1: have to like and it breaks up high and you
4:35
Speaker 1: have to like rip it off like that just is disturbing.
4:39
Speaker 1: That's to me, that's.
4:40
Speaker 2: Not entirely accurate. You watch all those surgery videos and
4:44
Speaker 2: nasty stuff like that, and I got no problem saying,
4:48
Speaker 2: someone get cut up. What you when you watch the
4:50
Speaker 2: surgery video.
4:51
Speaker 1: It is completely different to watch up last.
4:55
Speaker 2: I can't watch that stuff.
4:57
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I know that the person's gonna look better
4:59
Speaker 1: in the end and be happy, and they're gonna be
5:02
Speaker 1: hot with their new breasts. Not that they're being dismembered.
5:07
Speaker 1: That's vile.
5:08
Speaker 2: Well, clearly one's violent and one's not. But they're both
5:11
Speaker 2: cutting someone up and you have blood and guts everywhere.
5:16
Speaker 2: Fair statement.
5:17
Speaker 1: No, surgery is very controlled, it's very precise.
5:21
Speaker 2: This is it's a science.
5:22
Speaker 1: This is a chainsaw. They're not the same, all right.
5:27
Speaker 1: Digital evidence. At an April twenty third hearing, prosecutors disclose
5:30
Speaker 1: that investigators found a significant amount of child abuse material
5:35
Speaker 1: on David Burke's phone. Investigators believe that David Burke met
5:41
Speaker 1: Celeste when she was just eleven years old. This is
5:45
Speaker 1: what the court filing says. So anyway, that's where we're
5:48
Speaker 1: at with that. We'll continue to follow that case and
5:50
Speaker 1: give updates on it. That is insane, the case of
6:02
Speaker 1: Regina row Hicks. And this actually takes place in Ohio.
6:06
Speaker 1: A lot of cases in Ohio, A lot of things
6:08
Speaker 1: happen in Ohio. I don't know why we've even talked
6:10
Speaker 1: about this before when you talk about forensic files.
6:11
Speaker 2: For somethingause you're from Ohio.
6:13
Speaker 1: I'm from Ohio. But for some reason, I don't know
6:16
Speaker 1: if anyone else out there is obsessed with forensic files
6:18
Speaker 1: like I am. Now, you will notice if you go
6:21
Speaker 1: back and watch it. It's on Hulu, all the old episodes.
6:24
Speaker 1: If you go back and watch it, nine times out
6:26
Speaker 1: of ten, okay, eight times out of ten, if you
6:30
Speaker 1: watch an episode, it'll start out in Ohio. I don't
6:33
Speaker 1: know why. All right, So let's get to this case.
6:36
Speaker 1: So in October of two thousand and one, we're going
6:38
Speaker 1: to go back in time to two thousand and one,
6:40
Speaker 1: twenty five year old Regina Roe Hicks was reported missing
6:44
Speaker 1: in Huron County, Ohio, after failing to pick up her
6:47
Speaker 1: four year old son from her estranged husband, Paul Hicks.
6:51
Speaker 1: Four days later, her car was found submerged in a
6:54
Speaker 1: pond in Willard, Ohio, with her body in the passenger seat.
6:58
Speaker 1: The case went cold for nearly twenty four years. Suspicion
7:03
Speaker 1: had long centered around her husband or ex husband, Paul,
7:07
Speaker 1: but no formal charges were ever placed against him. A
7:11
Speaker 1: key breakthrough and this case came when Paul was arrested
7:14
Speaker 1: for a separate arson incident that occurred in twenty fifteen.
7:19
Speaker 1: Regina's case was reopened shortly after, and investigators were finally
7:23
Speaker 1: able to solve the cold case after two decades. This
7:28
Speaker 1: was also I watched this. It was an twenty twenty
7:31
Speaker 1: episode that aired recently. Yeah, it aired on May first.
7:36
Speaker 1: It's a twenty twenty episode. It's titled The Secret in
7:39
Speaker 1: the Water. It aired on May first of twenty twenty six.
7:43
Speaker 1: All right, so let's go back in time a little
7:45
Speaker 1: bit before two thousand and one, talk about the marriage
7:48
Speaker 1: and separation of Regina Rowe and Paul Hicks. So they
7:51
Speaker 1: were high school sweethearts, and they were married and they
7:55
Speaker 1: had a son together in nineteen ninety seven named Montana.
7:59
Speaker 1: Two thousand and one, the marriage had deteriorated and Regina
8:03
Speaker 1: was estranged from Paul. Their son was four years old
8:07
Speaker 1: at this time. Then in October eighteenth of two thousand
8:11
Speaker 1: and one, this is when she disappears. Regina dropped her
8:14
Speaker 1: four year old son, Montana, off at the home of
8:17
Speaker 1: Steve Gates. Steve Gates is very important, so we need
8:19
Speaker 1: to remember his name because he come up later. But
8:22
Speaker 1: he was Paul's best friend. His name is Steve Gates
8:25
Speaker 1: and he lived in Huron County, Ohio. Regina was supposed
8:29
Speaker 1: to return around eight pm to pick up her son, Montana.
8:33
Speaker 1: He's at Steve gates house the way I understand. I
8:36
Speaker 1: don't know if they clarified this or not, but I
8:38
Speaker 1: assume because they're divorce or custody and everything that was
8:41
Speaker 1: going on was so contentious that Steve Gates was probably
8:44
Speaker 1: his home was probably the drop off pickup place for
8:51
Speaker 1: custody exchanges. Regina was then supposed to return around eight
8:56
Speaker 1: pm to pick up her son, but Paul and Steve
8:59
Speaker 1: claimed that she never showed up. All right. So then
9:03
Speaker 1: on October twenty second, in two thousand and one, so
9:06
Speaker 1: that's four days after she went missing, Regina's Camaro was
9:10
Speaker 1: found submerged in a pond in Willard, Ohio. Her body
9:13
Speaker 1: was found inside in the passenger seat, and she was
9:15
Speaker 1: covered in mud.
9:19
Speaker 2: I was maybe I'll get into it, but how was
9:22
Speaker 2: the body? Was it drowned? Was it a result of drowning?
9:25
Speaker 1: Yeah, the cause of death was drowning, but she had
9:27
Speaker 1: also suffered three head injuries before going into the water,
9:31
Speaker 1: which were enough to knock her out but were not deadly.
9:34
Speaker 1: There was no DNA evidence present at the scene. So
9:38
Speaker 1: between two thousand and one in twenty seventeen, the case
9:41
Speaker 1: goes cold, despite a lot of suspicion falling on her
9:45
Speaker 1: ex husband Paul.
9:47
Speaker 2: That wait, sorry, that's interesting. So she's in the passenger seat.
9:49
Speaker 2: It's clearly murder, right, foul play, right, And yet they
9:54
Speaker 2: had and you'd think they'd have something. You think there'd
9:57
Speaker 2: be a lot of some evidence on the car where
9:59
Speaker 2: a about something and there was nothing.
10:02
Speaker 1: Nothing, No, And again when she was supposed to pick
10:07
Speaker 1: up the sun from Steve gates house. Steve Gates always
10:11
Speaker 1: claimed that she never showed up that night, So basically
10:15
Speaker 1: they don't have any indication as to where she was
10:20
Speaker 1: from that during that time period. So despite suspicion falling
10:26
Speaker 1: on Paul, her husband early on, investigators lacked the evidence
10:29
Speaker 1: to charge him, and the case sat cold for over
10:32
Speaker 1: a decade and a half. Paul moved on, eventually relocating
10:36
Speaker 1: to Claremont County in southern Ohio. All right, so he's
10:41
Speaker 1: just living his life now.
10:43
Speaker 2: He's like, that was easy. Yeah, so he's going to
10:45
Speaker 2: have to use my own car.
10:46
Speaker 1: So then we get to June of twenty fifteen. This
10:49
Speaker 1: is where he messed up. This man would have never
10:52
Speaker 1: gotten caught if he would not have tried this scheme
10:55
Speaker 1: that he tries right now, So June of twenty fifteen,
10:58
Speaker 1: he oh.
10:59
Speaker 2: Wait, wait, wait before you get for that, I want
11:00
Speaker 2: to get the basic time. So this is an one murder,
11:04
Speaker 2: yes right right? It goes cold right like they don't
11:07
Speaker 2: have anything, right.
11:08
Speaker 1: Right, nothing, And then he goes on and is living
11:11
Speaker 1: his best room and they even know what day she
11:13
Speaker 1: How long until they found her in the pond? Four
11:15
Speaker 1: days okay, so really soon after and then it goes
11:18
Speaker 1: cold and then what year are we in now? So
11:20
Speaker 1: then in June of twenty fifteen, Okay.
11:22
Speaker 2: So fifteen basically fourteen fifteen years later, right, So.
11:25
Speaker 1: He's just been living a normal life, doing his own thing. Right,
11:29
Speaker 1: So he has I think it's an investment property because
11:33
Speaker 1: it says that he bought a property, but it's I
11:36
Speaker 1: think it's supposed to be an investment property. But a
11:38
Speaker 1: fire breaks out at this property he owns in Claremont County.
11:42
Speaker 1: Now this is the catalyst for him getting charged. So
11:46
Speaker 1: I was saying, if he would not have tried to
11:49
Speaker 1: defraud the insurance company, then he would have never gotten caught.
11:54
Speaker 1: So there's a fire that breaks out on his property
11:56
Speaker 1: owned by him, and Paul immediately blames a former girlfriend,
12:00
Speaker 1: claiming that she had set the fire. They actually, so
12:03
Speaker 1: there's a fire there. The fire department shows up. It's
12:07
Speaker 1: a it's an explosive fire. Then they bring Paul in
12:12
Speaker 1: because they're like, you know, your house is on fire
12:15
Speaker 1: and it looks like arson because immediately I think when
12:17
Speaker 1: they're walking around, well, yeah, it was immediately known that
12:23
Speaker 1: it was arson because there were gas cans laying around.
12:26
Speaker 1: Then Paul says, oh, I have security footage, and so
12:30
Speaker 1: they pull up security footage at the inside. It shows
12:34
Speaker 1: two people walking around the.
12:36
Speaker 2: House, asks or anything.
12:38
Speaker 1: It's so interesting that you ask about a mask, because
12:41
Speaker 1: this is the most interesting thing I think I've ever
12:43
Speaker 1: seen in any story or any true crime. This literally
12:47
Speaker 1: blew my mind when I was watching this. So he says, hey,
12:50
Speaker 1: I've got security video. Let's pull it up. So they
12:53
Speaker 1: pull up security footage and they see two people, a
12:55
Speaker 1: man and a woman, enter the house with gas cans
12:57
Speaker 1: and they're just pouring gas everywhere and they're just gonna
13:01
Speaker 1: light this house on fire. They have I forget what
13:04
Speaker 1: they called the suits, but they had the suits on,
13:06
Speaker 1: you know, they called it something else, but yeah, something
13:11
Speaker 1: like that where they're fully covered. Now, the man you
13:14
Speaker 1: can't tell who he is, right, but the woman has
13:18
Speaker 1: curly blonde hair that is very evident. She did pull
13:23
Speaker 1: the curly blonde hair that's like hanging down out of
13:27
Speaker 1: them out of her you know.
13:29
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but if you're gonna be disguised, you would
13:32
Speaker 2: hide your hair, right, you would put in a ponytail
13:34
Speaker 2: or put it back right. No, this hair is she's
13:36
Speaker 2: showing it. What you're saying. She's wearing this beekeeper suit
13:38
Speaker 2: and she's still showing her hair, right.
13:40
Speaker 1: And she also has she also looks at the camera
13:44
Speaker 1: with her face and her face is not covered, so
13:46
Speaker 1: it's it's very Yeah, she's probably I'm surprised they didn't
13:50
Speaker 1: take her license and throw it down on the table.
13:53
Speaker 1: But she also looks into the security camera to make
13:56
Speaker 1: sure that her face shows up on the camera, and
14:00
Speaker 1: it does. Yeah. So then Paul is like, that's my
14:06
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend who he has a child with, by the way,
14:10
Speaker 1: and he's like blaming her. That's her, that's what she
14:12
Speaker 1: looks like. You know, that's her face, that's her hair. So,
14:14
Speaker 1: according to investigators, Paul had constructed an elaborate scheme to
14:18
Speaker 1: frame her, allegedly motivated by a desire to gain custody
14:22
Speaker 1: of the child he shared with her and to collect
14:24
Speaker 1: insurance money. My goodness, So this scheme was not only
14:27
Speaker 1: to make her end up arrested right for arson, but
14:32
Speaker 1: then to have custody of the child that he doesn't
14:34
Speaker 1: have to pay child sport. He gets insurance money and
14:37
Speaker 1: he and she goes to jail. So this scheme is like,
14:40
Speaker 1: I mean, he's a mastermind, right. He wants her to
14:43
Speaker 1: go to prison, he wants custody of the child and
14:45
Speaker 1: he's going to get insurance money out of all this scheme.
14:49
Speaker 1: So investigators, this is my favorite part. Investigators discovered that
14:53
Speaker 1: he had purchased a custom made wearable silicone mask and
14:59
Speaker 1: wig does to look like his ex girlfriend.
15:03
Speaker 2: They have record of him buying this.
15:04
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a company I want to find. I need
15:06
Speaker 1: to find the name of this company. I don't remember
15:08
Speaker 1: what it was called. It's like, I don't know, some
15:10
Speaker 1: face mask company where you can upload photos of a
15:14
Speaker 1: face and then they make a custom mask to look
15:17
Speaker 1: exactly like that face. So he ordered a.
15:20
Speaker 2: Good Housewives episode, right, Yeah, I know he can wear
15:24
Speaker 2: each other's mask, right, and then you'd go visit Shannon
15:27
Speaker 2: and say your Gina.
15:30
Speaker 1: Gina.
15:31
Speaker 2: Right.
15:31
Speaker 1: So he orders this custom mask to look like his
15:35
Speaker 1: ex girlfriend and then has I don't know who was
15:38
Speaker 1: wearing it, probably some friend or him. I don't know,
15:41
Speaker 1: because I think he's the other. I think he's the man.
15:43
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, but it was. And the man has a
15:46
Speaker 2: mask or regular mask on to cover his face.
15:48
Speaker 1: No, the man, it is covered. You can't tell.
15:51
Speaker 2: How is his face I disguised?
15:54
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I think he's just you can't or
15:56
Speaker 1: he never looks at the security camera. You just can't
15:58
Speaker 1: tell who that man is.
16:00
Speaker 2: I didn't have his flashy hair, no.
16:02
Speaker 1: But the woman that's dressed up like his ex girlfriend
16:04
Speaker 1: clearly had instructions to not cover her face and to
16:07
Speaker 1: look directly into the security camera. Right. So you know,
16:11
Speaker 1: the investigators end up questioning the ex wife and she
16:14
Speaker 1: she was cooperative or she wasn't an ex wife, she's
16:17
Speaker 1: a girlfriend that he had a child with. But she's cooperative, cooperative.
16:22
Speaker 1: She there's no digital evidence on her phone that you know, she's.
16:26
Speaker 2: There's nothing else that leads her to this.
16:28
Speaker 1: Crust, right, And she's has an alibi, I believe. And
16:31
Speaker 1: also the investigators are like, if you're going to go
16:34
Speaker 1: set a house on fire, why would you not cover
16:37
Speaker 1: your hair and your face and why are you looking
16:39
Speaker 1: directly into the camera. Right, So then they find you know,
16:43
Speaker 1: obviously this digital.
16:44
Speaker 2: Foot thread that forensic file is. Remember where it was.
16:47
Speaker 2: It was like female had died and it was violent.
16:52
Speaker 2: So she's on the floor, bloody and stuff, and in
16:55
Speaker 2: the on the wall was written like the initials or
16:59
Speaker 2: the name of her ex boyfriend.
17:00
Speaker 1: Oh, it was in the kitchen on the cabinet.
17:03
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And and and her finger was pointing to
17:06
Speaker 2: it as well that she yeah, you know, unfortunate was deceased.
17:09
Speaker 2: And then it turned out she's left handed, not right handed,
17:12
Speaker 2: and and the blood and everything was used with the
17:14
Speaker 2: right hand, right, because you had blood in the rain. Right,
17:17
Speaker 2: So what was this case of oh the mask?
17:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, the mask?
17:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you're you're throwing them off the investigation.
17:26
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that was his attempt. And they also found
17:28
Speaker 1: on his phone so they could see they they sent
17:31
Speaker 1: a subpoena to this company to get the order, and
17:34
Speaker 1: the the.
17:35
Speaker 2: Investigator mask company's name, So.
17:37
Speaker 1: I think the company is called something like that's my face.
17:39
Speaker 1: So I don't know. You can try and google it,
17:41
Speaker 1: but dot com, Oh you found it, that's my face
17:46
Speaker 1: dot com. So anyway, on his phone, investigators found all
17:50
Speaker 1: of the photos of his ex girlfriend that he used
17:54
Speaker 1: to upload to order this mask. So you know, everything's
17:57
Speaker 1: being corroborated. Right then into twenty seventeen, this is Regina's
18:02
Speaker 1: cold case reopens because investigators now know that he's you know,
18:07
Speaker 1: he burned down his own house to try to blame
18:11
Speaker 1: her and to try to send her creepy yeah, and
18:15
Speaker 1: then to try to get the insurance money. So what
18:18
Speaker 1: happens is they end up reopening the cold case with
18:21
Speaker 1: Regina and her murder, so the Ohio Bureau of Criminal
18:26
Speaker 1: Investigation takes over Regina's case. The Arson case helped reframe
18:30
Speaker 1: Paul as someone capable of constructing elaborate criminal plots and
18:35
Speaker 1: lying to investigators. All right, Then on January sixteenth of
18:39
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, Paul is indicted for Arson. Paul surrendered to
18:45
Speaker 1: authorities and was indicted on two counts of aggravated Arson
18:48
Speaker 1: insurance fraud and three counts of perjury, and the perjury
18:52
Speaker 1: was related to the lies that he told during the
18:55
Speaker 1: Arson investigation. Are you looking up the mask company? Did
19:01
Speaker 1: you find it?
19:02
Speaker 2: Yeah? I bet there's a lot more to it than
19:06
Speaker 2: looking it up and stuff.
19:07
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you have to upload a lot of photos.
19:09
Speaker 2: Well yeah, no, I mean it's pretty it's pretty high
19:12
Speaker 2: tech stuff.
19:13
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:13
Speaker 2: I don't know what the market is for that though.
19:15
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I'd believe he paid like three
19:17
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty dollars or something for the mask.
19:19
Speaker 2: I just wonder what the I could have gone down
19:22
Speaker 2: a rabbit hole I had to get. Yeah, but I'm
19:24
Speaker 2: wondering what the market is for that?
19:26
Speaker 1: Like, why someone would want a mask of someone else's face? Yeah,
19:31
Speaker 1: I don't know.
19:32
Speaker 2: I mean I want one now, I want to try it.
19:39
Speaker 2: All right, Well I want to get you a mask.
19:41
Speaker 1: Okay, well maybe for another if you.
19:43
Speaker 2: Smiling, so I'll just put it on you all the time.
19:45
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
19:48
Speaker 2: They Oh, mom's happy today.
19:49
Speaker 1: Yay. So I should get up every morning and just
19:51
Speaker 1: put my smiling mask on.
19:52
Speaker 2: Yes. So.
20:01
Speaker 1: Then in twenty twenty two, Paul pleaded guilty to a
20:04
Speaker 1: single misdemeanor count of insurance fraud. The aggravated arson and
20:07
Speaker 1: perjury charges were dropped, and he was sentenced to probation.
20:11
Speaker 1: Regina's family voiced their disappointment for this lenient outcome, as
20:14
Speaker 1: most of them believe Paul was also responsible for Regina's
20:17
Speaker 1: death and wanted to see him punished. All right, then
20:20
Speaker 1: we're going. Three years later, we get to April of
20:23
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five, when he finally gets indicted for murder.
20:26
Speaker 1: A hero On County grand jury indicted Paul Hicks on
20:29
Speaker 1: three counts of murder and one count of kidnapping in
20:33
Speaker 1: Regina Rowe Hicks death, and he pleaded not guilty. I'll
20:37
Speaker 1: tell you I believe from watching the twenty twenty episode,
20:41
Speaker 1: they there was a podcaster who did true crime and
20:45
Speaker 1: she became very obsessed with this case with Regina, and
20:48
Speaker 1: she went back and she dug through the case. She
20:51
Speaker 1: did multiple episodes on it, and she was talking about
20:53
Speaker 1: the case. Then she starts naming the longtime friend, Steve
20:58
Speaker 1: Gates in her podcast, calling him out. So I believe
21:03
Speaker 1: my takeaway.
21:04
Speaker 2: Was that as an accomplished to all this, yes.
21:06
Speaker 1: That he was lying that he really knows what happened,
21:09
Speaker 1: like he's the key to solving this case, and she's
21:12
Speaker 1: doing this on a podcast and she's naming him, and
21:16
Speaker 1: I think the pressure got to him because that was
21:19
Speaker 1: really the catalysts as to why they now had sufficient
21:24
Speaker 1: evidence to be able to indict Paul Hicks on murder surface.
21:30
Speaker 1: So Steve Gates, Paul's longtime friend, was the centerpiece of
21:34
Speaker 1: the state's case. He was testifying under a grant of immunity,
21:38
Speaker 1: and Gates said that Regina did come to his house
21:40
Speaker 1: to pick up Montana. So I think the catalyst was
21:43
Speaker 1: his podcast calling him out. And I think maybe people
21:46
Speaker 1: it had been many years were talking, you know, twenty
21:49
Speaker 1: years later or whatever. So I think he had a
21:51
Speaker 1: change of heart. He finally decides to come clean, so
21:54
Speaker 1: he is the prosecution's key witness. He came forward and
21:57
Speaker 1: said that he was there and he knows what happened
21:59
Speaker 1: that night. Because remember, originally he was saying that Regina
22:02
Speaker 1: never showed up at his house.
22:04
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's right, right.
22:05
Speaker 1: Because he's the friend where Montana, the son and a
22:08
Speaker 1: four year old son.
22:09
Speaker 2: No, it's not just he's staying at home and she's
22:11
Speaker 2: not showing up like he was a part of it.
22:13
Speaker 1: He's saying, she did show up, and I know what happened.
22:17
Speaker 1: So that's the evidence that they have now. So Steve
22:21
Speaker 1: gates his new story. He now claims that he saw
22:24
Speaker 1: Paul and Regina arguing outside her camaro, so he briefly
22:28
Speaker 1: stepped inside to his garage. He said also that they
22:31
Speaker 1: argued all the time, that the relationship was always volatile.
22:34
Speaker 1: So he steps into the garage, then he returned. He
22:37
Speaker 1: leaves the garage to find Regina crumpled up in the
22:40
Speaker 1: front passenger seat.
22:42
Speaker 2: So he's saying he stepped away from the argument, and
22:45
Speaker 2: then when he came back, she's now in the.
22:47
Speaker 1: Passenger seat, right, And if you recall based upon the
22:49
Speaker 1: medical examiner, she had three kind of like blunt force
22:53
Speaker 1: trauma injuries on top of her head, but not enough
22:57
Speaker 1: to kill her, but enough to capacitate. Yeah, Crystal Hicks.
23:03
Speaker 1: Paul's sister testified against him in court that that evening
23:07
Speaker 1: she saw muddy clothes in her bathtub after Regina's disappearance,
23:11
Speaker 1: and a former girlfriend of Paul's testified about conversations in
23:15
Speaker 1: which he discussed manipulating polygraph tests and a scheme to.
23:19
Speaker 2: Play does everyone come up with this stuff now I know?
23:22
Speaker 1: And also that he had spoken about a scheme to
23:26
Speaker 1: plant drugs and Regina's car in order to gain leverage
23:29
Speaker 1: in their custody dispute. So the sister, yeah, you know.
23:33
Speaker 1: The sister comes forward twenty years later and says, hey,
23:35
Speaker 1: the night after Regina disappeared, I came home. She said
23:38
Speaker 1: she came home from work early, so he wasn't expecting
23:41
Speaker 1: her to come home at that time, and that the
23:43
Speaker 1: bathroom bathtub was filled with muddy clothes and that he
23:47
Speaker 1: was trying to clean up stuff. I mean, how suspicious
23:50
Speaker 1: is that when they know that Regina disappeared and a Camaro.
23:53
Speaker 2: And came home and I had muddy shoes or whatever
23:57
Speaker 2: it was in a bathtub and a bathtub, what would
23:59
Speaker 2: be your.
24:00
Speaker 1: First thought would be like, what the hell were you doing?
24:02
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, yeah, well do you see how angry Emily gets.
24:06
Speaker 2: All you have to do is say what were you
24:07
Speaker 2: doing today? Instead you act mad?
24:10
Speaker 1: Well, if you if you had muddy boots and clothes,
24:14
Speaker 1: why why do you have mighty clothes? Yes?
24:16
Speaker 2: Well no, normal spouses would say why do you have
24:20
Speaker 2: mighty clothes? You say, what was it?
24:22
Speaker 1: What the hell are you doing?
24:24
Speaker 2: Yeah?
24:24
Speaker 1: Exactly, Well, because you're not You're not a muddy guy.
24:27
Speaker 1: I've been married to you for seventeen years and you've
24:29
Speaker 1: never come home with mud on.
24:31
Speaker 2: Right, It's not like I fish every weekend, so it's like,
24:33
Speaker 2: oh he went fishing those there's gloshes. No, you would
24:35
Speaker 2: be like, what.
24:36
Speaker 1: Do you say galoshes?
24:37
Speaker 2: Is that what they're called? Galoshes?
24:39
Speaker 1: Yeah? This is funny to hear you say goloshes.
24:41
Speaker 2: Because I because I don't normally use it in my vocabulary.
24:44
Speaker 1: I've never heard you say galoshes before.
24:46
Speaker 2: Have you ever heard me say fishing before?
24:48
Speaker 1: Well?
24:48
Speaker 2: Probably mighty boots in a bathtub. Yeah, So anyway, thanks
24:53
Speaker 2: for make me lose my train of thought.
24:55
Speaker 1: Oh, you're welcome, all right. So the defense is strategy.
24:58
Speaker 1: What's the defense strategy to be. You've got Steve Gates.
25:01
Speaker 1: First of all, again, let's just reiterate, there is no
25:03
Speaker 1: DNA evidence. They still had the car in the exact
25:07
Speaker 1: same condition as it was when they pulled it out
25:09
Speaker 1: of that pond back in two thousand, because.
25:11
Speaker 2: Do you know how long you're supposed to preserve the
25:13
Speaker 2: evidence of a murder case? How long forever?
25:15
Speaker 1: Right, So the car is still preserved, it's not it's
25:19
Speaker 1: still as muddy as it was when it came out.
25:22
Speaker 1: No DNAT, you know, but they found for this murder
25:27
Speaker 1: trial against him, there's no DNA, no forensics, no hair, no.
25:32
Speaker 2: There's nothing. There's nothing linking him. So the only evidence
25:39
Speaker 2: that they have against him in this trial is Steve
25:42
Speaker 2: gatesimony testimony. That's evidence, it is.
25:46
Speaker 1: But what's the defense going to do. They're going to say,
25:49
Speaker 1: why did he He lied in the beginning, so what
25:52
Speaker 1: why would the jury believe him? Now? Right, that's the
25:55
Speaker 1: that's the whole defense strategy. He's a known liar. He
25:58
Speaker 1: lied before, he lied to prosecutors, he to the police,
26:01
Speaker 1: he lied to everyone, why should we believe him now?
26:04
Speaker 1: So the defense attacked the credibility of Steve Gates, who
26:07
Speaker 1: had been granted immunity, raising obvious bias questions, right because
26:11
Speaker 1: he's now granted immunity from having anything to do with this,
26:15
Speaker 1: and pointed to the absence of forensic evidence. They also
26:18
Speaker 1: floated the idea that someone else could have been responsible.
26:22
Speaker 1: So that's the defense, right. They just want to plant
26:25
Speaker 1: reasonable doubt in the jury's minds. They want to say,
26:29
Speaker 1: why are you guys going to believe him? He lied
26:31
Speaker 1: all the time? What makes you think that he's not
26:33
Speaker 1: lying now? Also, they did not show Paul Gates testimony.
26:39
Speaker 1: So in Ohio you can record trials and you can
26:44
Speaker 1: publicly disseminate them. Okay, However, if you do not want,
26:48
Speaker 1: if you testify and you do not want your image
26:51
Speaker 1: out there, you can request that your image not be shown.
26:54
Speaker 2: So the default is it's public. It's public, but you
26:58
Speaker 2: can make a request.
26:58
Speaker 1: But you can make a request.
27:00
Speaker 2: So who so who made the Requestates.
27:02
Speaker 1: The star witness who was testifying, now changing his story
27:05
Speaker 1: and saying that he does know what happened. He requested
27:08
Speaker 1: that his image and his testimony not be shown. So
27:11
Speaker 1: they So in this episode of twenty twenty, they show
27:15
Speaker 1: his sister testifying against him, they show an ex girlfriend
27:17
Speaker 1: testifying against him, but you do not see Steve gates
27:21
Speaker 1: testimony or his new image at all. I don't know.
27:25
Speaker 1: He probably, I don't know. I think he wanted to
27:28
Speaker 1: do the right thing, but he probably doesn't want to.
27:31
Speaker 2: Maybe the reason why he lied from the beginning, he
27:34
Speaker 2: just wants to stay out of it.
27:35
Speaker 1: Probably. Okay, So Paul's trial lasted approximately two weeks and
27:39
Speaker 1: then he was found guilty of murder and kidnapping. Okay, Okay,
27:44
Speaker 1: this is.
27:44
Speaker 2: Like twenty years later then, right, Yeah.
27:47
Speaker 1: So January ninth of twenty twenty six, so this was
27:49
Speaker 1: actually fairly recent. Paul Hicks was sentenced to twenty five
27:54
Speaker 1: years to life in prison, which the way I understood
27:57
Speaker 1: it and the way they explained it was he has
27:59
Speaker 1: to spend a minimum of twenty five years in prison
28:02
Speaker 1: before he's eligible for parole. Yeah, he will, no, but
28:05
Speaker 1: he will be eligible for parole after twenty five years.
28:09
Speaker 2: I don't think this guy twenty five to life is
28:12
Speaker 2: it means twenty well, it means twenty five years minimum
28:15
Speaker 2: and up to life, right, but.
28:17
Speaker 1: At twenty five years he will then be without parole.
28:20
Speaker 2: Is just what we think of as life.
28:22
Speaker 1: I know, I guess I just wanted to clarify that
28:24
Speaker 1: in twenty five years this man is eligible for parole,
28:28
Speaker 1: which I don't think is enough time considering not only.
28:31
Speaker 2: Do I already had twenty years out in the public
28:33
Speaker 2: and he was free.
28:34
Speaker 1: Right, But he's also also the killer. Right. But he's
28:39
Speaker 1: also just even with the arson and the insurance fraud
28:43
Speaker 1: and you know, trying to frame the ex girlfriend.
28:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just killing his baby's mama and keeping that
28:50
Speaker 2: child from having a mother. It's horrible. Would you ever
28:53
Speaker 2: have thought you could go online and order a mask
28:55
Speaker 2: to look like me?
28:57
Speaker 1: No?
28:57
Speaker 2: But he did, now I know, I know he did. Yeah,
29:00
Speaker 2: I mean that guy is Did you see that video?
29:02
Speaker 1: Yeah? It shows that you want.
29:04
Speaker 2: Does she look like a female, like her mannerisms and stuff?
29:07
Speaker 1: Yeah?
29:07
Speaker 2: It could be him?
29:08
Speaker 1: No, I know it's no, it's I mean this this
29:10
Speaker 1: woman is shortened. Oh it's not him and kind of bigger. Yeah,
29:14
Speaker 1: so it's not him. No, there's a man that's tall
29:16
Speaker 1: and thin, and then there is a short Does it
29:18
Speaker 1: look like her?
29:20
Speaker 2: The X the face mask?
29:22
Speaker 1: Does it it's hard to tell because the security video
29:25
Speaker 1: is black and white.
29:26
Speaker 2: So but is that enough to kind of think it
29:27
Speaker 2: could be?
29:28
Speaker 1: Well, I think yeah if. But it's also again you're
29:32
Speaker 1: watching it, going, why does this woman have like all
29:33
Speaker 1: her hair down and out and her face uncovered? I mean,
29:37
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of ridiculous when you watch it.
29:39
Speaker 2: Isn't she has a necklace with her initials on it.
29:41
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it's yeah exactly, it's it's kind of
29:44
Speaker 1: ridiculous looking at it. But I mean you should watch
29:46
Speaker 1: it just because.
29:47
Speaker 2: It's now I want a mask.
29:50
Speaker 1: Now that you know that the woman's wearing a mask
29:53
Speaker 1: to look like his ex girlfriend in order to frame her.
29:56
Speaker 1: You watch it and you're like, this is these two
29:57
Speaker 1: are It's just ridiculous.
30:00
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'd love to see like like the uh,
30:05
Speaker 2: like the behind the scenes footage of them like prepping
30:08
Speaker 2: for this crime, right, like yeah that looks good.
30:11
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, put your hair forward so they can see it.
30:15
Speaker 2: Now, make which photos did they upload of her, you know,
30:18
Speaker 2: to get the mask?
30:19
Speaker 1: And they show the photos, they show the order form.
30:21
Speaker 2: Oh that's right because they have it. It's all digital,
30:23
Speaker 2: because they said.
30:26
Speaker 1: The prosecutor said that in like all of his existence
30:30
Speaker 1: of prosecuting, he never had someone fully comply with a
30:35
Speaker 1: subpoena like that, because they subpoena the company.
30:38
Speaker 2: And then probably have a whole department where they handle
30:40
Speaker 2: subpoenas for all the homicide investigations.
30:44
Speaker 1: So then he was like they the information he got
30:46
Speaker 1: back from the subpoena, He's like, they got the order,
30:48
Speaker 1: they got the photos, they got the everything.
30:51
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's not their first rodeo.
30:53
Speaker 1: No, he's just like, you know, I mean, can you imagine, though,
30:56
Speaker 1: that's a win when you're a prosecutor and you're you're
30:58
Speaker 1: prosecuting someone and you're trying to build a case against them,
31:02
Speaker 1: and you send a subpoena, and you know, when you
31:04
Speaker 1: send a subpoena.
31:05
Speaker 2: Nine times out of test they.
31:07
Speaker 1: Toss them out, they block them, they do everything, proact everything,
31:10
Speaker 1: they don't reply, they do everything possible to not comply
31:14
Speaker 1: with a subpoena. So the fact that this prosecutor sends
31:17
Speaker 1: a subpoena and then he just gets back, you know,
31:20
Speaker 1: the order, the photos that were used, Paul Hicks's you know,
31:24
Speaker 1: email address or like whatever he used to order, and
31:28
Speaker 1: the amount and probably his credit.
31:30
Speaker 2: Card and also signed a form or agreed to some
31:33
Speaker 2: terms that he wouldn't use it to commit crimes.
31:35
Speaker 1: Probably, So I mean that was that was pretty interesting anyway,
31:40
Speaker 1: all right, So he sent us to twenty five years
31:41
Speaker 1: to life. I guess we'll follow this case if we're
31:44
Speaker 1: alive in twenty five years to see if he's pearoled.
31:48
Speaker 1: So hopefully not. He someone like that deserves to spend
31:51
Speaker 1: the rest of their life in prison, So that's my thought. Oh, also,
31:55
Speaker 1: one last thought on this. They did they never showed
31:58
Speaker 1: the sun Montana, who was four at the time but
32:00
Speaker 1: now he's obviously an adult in his late twenties. It
32:05
Speaker 1: did show a statement. He wrote a statement that they
32:07
Speaker 1: read in court. He did not go to court. He
32:10
Speaker 1: did not appear in the documentary or in this episode
32:13
Speaker 1: of twenty twenty at all. And I don't know how
32:17
Speaker 1: I felt about what he wrote. I did feel badly
32:19
Speaker 1: for him, but he wrote something to the effect of, like,
32:23
Speaker 1: you know, he'd lost his mom, but he also he
32:25
Speaker 1: did not believe that his dad had anything to do
32:28
Speaker 1: with it, and now he lost his father too, so
32:29
Speaker 1: he has no parents, which is sad for him. But
32:33
Speaker 1: I just felt like it was also sad that it
32:35
Speaker 1: seemed like he wasn't fully grasping like his dad's involvement.
32:40
Speaker 1: I don't think he was on board with believing that
32:43
Speaker 1: and believing that.
32:44
Speaker 2: I imagine it's different if you grow up and you
32:48
Speaker 2: have parents and you're of an age where you maybe
32:51
Speaker 2: have a good memory, like you're in your teens or something,
32:54
Speaker 2: where you have a lot of experiences with your parents
32:56
Speaker 2: and memories, and then you come to learn, maybe even
33:00
Speaker 2: in real time, that you know one parent killed the other. Yeah,
33:04
Speaker 2: But then when you know, at age four, he's gonna
33:06
Speaker 2: have very little memories of his mother, just maybe some images,
33:10
Speaker 2: right and in whatever he was told after he was
33:14
Speaker 2: four about her. So then he grows up never really
33:17
Speaker 2: knowing her, sadly, and then come to learn that like, oh,
33:21
Speaker 2: this person that was never my wife my life, they
33:23
Speaker 2: say my father killed and he's telling me, no, you're
33:26
Speaker 2: just probably not as invested in it. I mean, you
33:29
Speaker 2: could be, but it could be in a situation like
33:31
Speaker 2: this where he's not emotionally investing in because it wasn't
33:34
Speaker 2: in real time. It was a long time ago. He
33:36
Speaker 2: never got to know his mother to be sad that
33:38
Speaker 2: she's dead. Other than this the fact that he doesn't
33:40
Speaker 2: have a mother, so that might have kind of set
33:43
Speaker 2: him back a little bit not been so emotionally well
33:46
Speaker 2: I acted.
33:47
Speaker 1: I also wish in this.
33:48
Speaker 2: Oh if that made sense, but a little but made
33:51
Speaker 2: a lot of sense.
33:52
Speaker 1: Okay. So this was called ABC's twenty twenty episode. It's
33:56
Speaker 1: called The Secret in the Water. If you're interested in
33:58
Speaker 1: watching it. Also, if you have any thoughts or information
34:01
Speaker 1: or more information on this case, I love to hear it,
34:04
Speaker 1: so make sure you dm me on Instagram. Also, please
34:07
Speaker 1: be sure to follow legally Brunette. All of our episodes
34:11
Speaker 1: go into the legally Brunette feeds, so if you're listening
34:14
Speaker 1: to us on two t's that's great, but not every
34:17
Speaker 1: episode goes in there, so make sure you follow us
34:19
Speaker 1: on legally Brunette. Also, please be sure to tell your
34:21
Speaker 1: friends and family to listen. And again, thank you so
34:25
Speaker 1: much for your recommendations and for listening. We appreciate you.
34:29
Speaker 2: And then you're you always forget you got to tell people,
34:32
Speaker 2: advise them. Oh, go ahead, divorce before.
34:36
Speaker 1: Murder, death, divorce before death. That is our PSA until death,
34:40
Speaker 1: do us part. I don't care what your religion is
34:43
Speaker 1: or I don't care how bad you're gonna look, or
34:45
Speaker 1: I don't care what your custody arrangement is.
34:47
Speaker 2: Murder is always always bad.
34:50
Speaker 1: That is the bad choice, all right, So make good
34:52
Speaker 1: choices people.
34:53
Speaker 2: Yeah, honesty is the best policy, right.
34:55
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening.
34:57
Speaker 2: So is not murder?
34:58
Speaker 1: Okay, you have to stop talking. I can try to
34:59
Speaker 1: end this episode. You just keep adding things at the end.
35:03
Speaker 1: Thank you.