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Distant water fishing fleets are stripping the ocean bare and the new high seas treaty may be our last chance · How To Protect The Ocean

• 0:00
  Today we peel back what's happening on the far edge of Argentina's
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  waters in a stretch of the South Atlantic called Mile 201.
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  Here, hundreds of large fishing vessels converge each year
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  plundering squid stocks that are vital to the ocean ecosystems
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  and global food webs all with almost no regulation or oversight.
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  We're gonna talk about why that's so important on this episode of the
• 0:21
  How to Protect the ocean Podcast.
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  Let's start the show.
• 0:26
  Hey everybody.
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  Welcome back to another exciting episode of the How to Protect the ocean Podcast.
• 0:29
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin, Marine biologist and science communicator
• 0:33
  here to tell you what's happening with the ocean, how you can speak up
• 0:35
  for the ocean, and what you can do to live for a better ocean by taking
• 0:39
  action.
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  Today we're gonna be talking about squid fishing in a section in the
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  South Atlantic called Mile 201.
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  You're probably wondering what's that 201?
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  Stay tuned.
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  We're gonna talk about why that's such an important number.
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  Before we do though, I'm gonna talk to you a little bit about
• 0:52
  what I'm doing this year.
• 0:53
  I'm trying to build a network of independent podcasts all around
• 0:58
  ocean conservation and wildlife.
• 1:00
  And so to do this, I need your help and I would love to your support and people have
• 1:04
  actually reached out to me before that have actually inspired me to start this.
• 1:08
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• 1:11
  support me just to support what I'm trying to do with the podcast network.
• 1:14
  Or you can support specific podcasts.
• 1:16
  If you go to speak up for blue.com/patreon, you can
• 1:20
  help me be independent.
• 1:21
  Stay independent.
• 1:22
  And what I like about being independent is that I don't have to talk about one
• 1:25
  particular organization over another, or what they're doing over another.
• 1:28
  I can just stay independent, non-biased, and just focus on the
• 1:31
  science, the policy, the economics.
• 1:34
  And just what you need to know just to become a better person around the ocean.
• 1:38
  That's really what it comes is, is be more aware, speak up for the
• 1:42
  ocean, and live for a better ocean.
• 1:44
  That's really what it comes down to.
• 1:45
  I say it every episode as you've probably already heard me.
• 1:48
  So if you go speak up for blue.com/patreon, the link
• 1:51
  will be in the show notes.
• 1:52
  I would be really appreciative if you can support me.
• 1:54
  If you can't, no worries.
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  Follow, subscribe however you want on whichever platform you
• 2:01
  listen or watch these episodes on.
• 2:02
  So I really do appreciate it.
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  So what is Mile 201 and why does it matter?
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  So Mile 201 refers to an area on the High Seas, just beyond Argentina's Exclusive
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  Economic Zone, the EEZ, which is roughly 200 nautical miles from the coast.
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  Every country has a 200 nautical mile, kind of radius, I guess, or
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  distance from its coast that is theirs.
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  They basically manage what's ever in there.
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  So you have the High Seas outside that 200 nautical mile, and you have, inside the
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  200 nautical mile the Exclusive Economic Zone, basically exclusive to that country.
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  In this case, Argentina.
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  Canada has it as well.
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  United States has it.
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  The interesting thing I found out on another podcast, Polar Bears and Flip
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  Flops that I co-host with Angelo Villagomez, is we found out that
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  in the Mediterranean, the people don't recognize the states in there
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  because there's so many states.
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  I think it's like 23 or something like that.
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  They don't recognize the 200 nautical miles zone because they all overlap.
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  And so it'd be very difficult to do that.
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  So it's all international waters, which is an interesting fact.
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  So if you do get one thing out of this, you know that fact is there.
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  But essentially like once a squid school migrates out of the Exclusive Economic
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  Zone for Argentina, it enters in a largely unregulated area known as the High Seas,
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  where no single nation could controls the fishing activity there until recently.
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  But anyway, we will talk about that at the end of this episode.
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  But satellite imagery shows that these fleets that come out from the High
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  Seas, so distance fleets or anywhere else, they're so large that when they
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  converge along this line that their lights are visible from space at night.
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  That's how big it is.
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  It's like a small city that converges on that line.
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  So because the squid has a one year lifecycle, so short lifecycle,
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  heavy fishing pressure during the migration seasons that take 'em
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  outside of that 200 nautical mile zone and into the 201 mile zone can
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  quickly deplete local populations.
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  So if you think about it, you have a one year life cycle of this squid.
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  The squid goes out past the 200 nautical mile boundary to 201.
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  It gets scooped up as many as possible.
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  There's no regulations, there's no quotas.
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  There's no nothing.
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  Once it gets outside of that zone.
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  And let's be honest, that line is not like drawn into the water.
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  So.
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  There are things that happen where some of these ships can go over the border
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  and whatnot if it's not enforced.
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  And so you have this short lifecycle species that gets
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  taken as much as possible.
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  It's really difficult for that species to reproduce.
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  So if you take out, say 60 to 75% of that species, then it only has like 40%
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  of that species to go and reproduce.
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  You'll get a smaller and smaller population every single time.
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  So unregulated fishing in global High Seas is a huge growing challenge.
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  Globally, many squid fisheries lack strong international management or
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  monitoring systems, meaning that, mining of this resource often goes
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  unaccounted for and unrestrained.
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  And we could lose a lot of shrimp
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  at any point in time, we just never know, depending on these fisheries and
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  these fleets and how much squid they can carry, which is a lot, let's be honest.
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  So who is fishing these areas and how the effort has changed over time is
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  a really big interesting factor here.
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  So the vast majority of the vessels that are operating belong to the
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  distance water fleets featuring
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  China, with significant participation from Taiwan and South Korea.
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  So a lot of Asian countries that are
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  along these lines.
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  In the Pacific, it makes sense.
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  The China has probably one of the largest distance fishing
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  fleets, so that'll be big.
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  Between 2019 and 2024, total fishing activity in the
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  region increased by about 65%.
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  Remember when I told you about that I was probably in that number, driven largely
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  by 85% surge in Chinese fishing effort.
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  Many of the vessels turn off their tracking systems when fishing
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  outside of national limits, a tactic known as going dark, which makes
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  monitoring even more difficult.
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  So think about this, like everybody has a tracking system.
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  They're supposed to have a tracking system AIS, right?
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  And so you're able to see where these vessels operate.
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  There was a study that came out that like 75% of the fishing fleets around the
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  world do not put these on on a regular basis, or they may not even have it.
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  So we have no idea where people are fishing, how they're fishing, where
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  they're supposed to be, where they're not supposed to be, because it's
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  very difficult to track with each GPS units because they know that if they
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  turn it off or they don't use it,
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  then it's really easy to kind of sneak in.
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  Canada had this problem a number of years ago with the COD stocks
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  like 30 years ago, where I remember seeing on the news when I was a kid.
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  I remember seeing like the Coast Guard going out and even
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  military navy ships were going out
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  by that 200 nautical miles zone to make sure that there, I think it was
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  Portuguese and Spanish fleets weren't coming in, taking and going over our
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  border and taking our cod stocks.
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  That's a big thing is you're, going into national waters exclusive
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  economic zones and you're fishing.
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  That is a big no-no from an international relationship standpoint.
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  So with China that operates the world's largest distance water fleet, fishing
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  fleet, active in oceans, worldwide.
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  These fleets supply seafood to markets in Europe, to North America, to Asia, and
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  the lack of regulation in these areas like Mile 201 creates incentives for
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  fishing to expand into the legal gaps.
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  You have to be careful with that.
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  We don't want that to happen.
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  But it's hard to enforce that.
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  It's hard to have ships out there at all times to make sure that they're there.
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  Now, if there's a seasonal one, you have some ships and you have
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  some planes flying over to make sure that they're not in that area,
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  certain countries like Indonesia have taken a much more aggressive approach by
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  actually sinking a lot of those ships, sending a hard message for a lot of the
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  ships that if you come in and fish within our waters, we will sink your boat and
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  we will take everything that's on it.
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  Obviously we don't wanna see that happen.
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  I don't wanna see anybody get hurt on the High Seas, but Indonesia did
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  take that route a number of years ago.
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  I don't think they're still doing that.
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  I haven't heard reports of that.
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  But if anybody knows, let me know in the comments below.
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  I'd love to hear about that because that's obviously dangerous and
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  we don't wanna see that happen.
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  Let's talk about squid and what would happen if it's collapsed.
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  So, Argentine shortfin squid, which is what we're talking about here,
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  are not just a fishery resource.
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  They are a keystone species in the southwest Atlantic.
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  That means they're serving as a critical prey item for whales,
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  dolphins, seals, seabirds, and commercially valuable fish like tuna
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  and hake.
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  Experts warn that removing this prey base could trigger cascading effects throughout
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  the Marine food web impacting species at multiple levels of the food web.
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  We call it trophic levels, multiple trophic levels of the food web.
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  So squid are both predator and prey.
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  The linking nutrient and energy flow along the food web, this
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  makes them essential for sustaining ecosystem health and resilient food
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  web because they play both roles.
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  Without the adequate management stocks to regenerate yearly are
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  vulnerable to overfishing and collapse.
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  This is a big problem.
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  It's kind of funny 'cause every time we talk about fish, we worry about
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  if they're sort of a long lived species, where they, it takes multiple
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  years to reach sexual maturity.
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  So sometimes 10, 13, sometimes a lot less.
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  We worry about those species because they're slow growers And so if you
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  start taking them out at the highest level when they're at the adult level,
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  older, they're at the biggest level.
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  You know, producers will reproduce a lot of fish, but if you start taking
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  those out, then you have smaller and smaller ones and eventually have
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  ones that They're at the size where they're not reaching or time where
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  they're not reaching sexual maturity.
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  And so that's why they have a lot of size restrictions on specific fish.
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  But when we talk about quick growing species, these are too quick.
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  So if you take out a generation, that generation may not come back afterwards,
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  and that could be a big problem.
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  We should also talk about, you know, looking at human rights and animal
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  welfare concerns when it comes to this.
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  So investigations have documented widespread animal cruelty, including
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  the deliberate killing of seals in significant numbers on deck.
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  So they bring 'em on the deck.
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  If they're in their, nets and they'll start to kill 'em on the deck.
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  These are seals and sea lions that are just trying to feed
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  on the natural population.
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  It is part of their lifecycle.
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  It is part of nature.
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  But what people don't like are seals taking their fish, and you can see that
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  in almost every fishery around the world.
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  They're like, Hey, we have too many seals here.
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  They keep taking our fish, and they'll try and shoot them.
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  They'll try and kill them in very harmful and cruel ways.
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  There are some pretty crazy scary people out there.
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  And not everybody obviously, but there's a few that will
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  treat these animals horribly.
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  We don't wanna see that happen on any front, in any part of the world.
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  And also like we have to look out for the crew members too.
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  ' cause on some vessels they report this serious labor abuses such as long hours
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  with little rest, physical intimidation, debt bondage, and wage withholding.
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  So basically fishery slaves.
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  They can come in all different forms or they can come in all of those forms and
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  it's something we have to stamp out fast.
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  But when you have distance fleets and you're out at sea for like six months
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  at a time, you're not coming home.
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  This is not an easy job to do.
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  It's very dangerous.
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  Very dangerous.
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  Sometimes you're in eight and 10 foot Seas, you're still trying to fish.
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  You can go overboard very easily.
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  You can get crushed by something very easily.
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  Being on a working ship is not something that is like what we
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  think of as being on a yacht.
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  The ocean especially the Pacific ocean and the Southwest Atlantic
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  ocean, it can be very scary.
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  It could be very, very scary.
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  It could be very dangerous.
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  So that's something that we don't wanna see.
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  And of course, many of the squid that are caught into these conditions end up in
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  markets in the EU, the UK, North America.
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  Meaning consumers may unknowingly support this harmful practices.
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  We don't know if we're actually supporting these practices.
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  Whether it's for squid or for anything else,
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  we don't know.
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  Like the calamari you had at your family restaurant.
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  Maybe part of that fishery.
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  We have no clue.
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  There's no way to track it.
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  It's not a very well tracked fishery.
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  That needs to be increased and get better.
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  So reports from fisheries around the world show that High Seas
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  fishing can be a vector of labor abuses when oversight is weak.
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  This connects ocean conservation directly with human rights issues.
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  So that's something that we have to be careful.
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  And of course, the animal rights as well.
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  Now there are regulations and there is need for transparency.
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  But the fact is that there are currently no international, I'm gonna say this
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  lightly because it's gonna change in after January 16th or January 20th.
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  Agreed cash limits for squid in the high Seas office, Argentina
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  leaving a regulatory vacuum that distant water fleets exploit.
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  So because there's no regulation that once those squid go over that border.
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  Whether they're coming over the border or not, once they
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  go over that border, it's over.
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  They can get caught.
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  They can catch as many as they want, and there's nothing that anybody can do.
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  Argentina, the Fishers, there's nothing that they can do about it.
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  Argentina's Coast Guard can monitor but has no enforcement power once the vessels
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  move beyond their exclusive economic zone.
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  So once they move to Mile 201, they can't do anything.
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  If they come in on their exclusive economic zone, they can do something.
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  Other than that, they can't do anything.
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  Environmental groups are calling for binding international rules,
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  better transparency through vessel tracking and import bans on seafood
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  tied to illegal or abusive practices.
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  So international treaties such as the port state measures
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  agreement exist to prevent illegal catches from entering a trait.
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  So almost like CITES which is also international.
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  The Port state measures agreement also does this where it says you
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  can't import specific fish, but their catch reach is limited without
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  widespread adoption and enforcement.
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  So consumer awareness and pressure on import regulations help
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  compliment management efforts.
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  Now here's the thing though.
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  We have a new binding agreement that's starting January 17th, not 16th
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  is coming into force January 17th.
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  It is called the BBNJ Agreement, also known as the High Seas Treaty.
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  This is something that is unprecedented, is part of the UN Convention of the Law
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  of the Sea, UNCLOS, and is designed to enhance conservation, sustainable use
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  of Marine biodiversity in international waters beyond the nation's jurisdiction,
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  which is the Exclusive Economic Zone.
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  It reached the required ratification numbers of 60 in 2025, and will
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  enter in force January 17th.
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  Probably by the time you listen to this episode or right around the
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  time this episode is published.
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  Now what can be done?
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  Marine protective areas can be put into place.
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  There's environmental impact assessments, legislation in
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  there or policies in there.
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  There's cooperation and monitoring policies in there, and of course
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  there's capacity building and technology sharing among the
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  countries of signatory countries.
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  Not a lot of people.
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  Even though there's 60 nations, not a lot of people are on this.
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  Not a lot of the nations are on this, but this will grow as we continue to do this.
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  It's been ratified, so that's always great.
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  The US hasn't ratified to it for all my American friends.
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  I don't even know if Canada's ratified.
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  They've agreed to it, but they haven't ratified it yet as of
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  this recording that I know of.
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  But regardless, this provides at least some international reflection.
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  They could put a Marine protected area just on the Mile 201 or beyond
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  that to say, Hey, internationally, you're not allowed to fish here.
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  I don't know what the enforcement is.
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  I don't know what the repercussions is.
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  The High Seas Treaty is still in its infancy and probably still
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  needs to be better reinforced
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  in the long term, but at least we can put in and designate Marine protected areas.
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  It could be paper parks right at the beginning, but at least
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  we know there's something there.
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  And sometimes when you look at these international treaties from a
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  policy perspective, sometimes being embarrassed and being called out for
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  violating like a Marine protected area.
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  These countries don't wanna be called out like that.
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  So maybe that would be the initial thing.
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  I know it's like a slap on the wrist and people don't like it.
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  But it's something that's big because a lot of countries take pride in
• 14:18
  that, especially countries like China.
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  They don't want to be part of it.
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  They wanted to be part of the Port State Measures Agreement.
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  That's something that's very important to them.
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  And so they have to change the way they manage their distance
• 14:28
  fishing fleet to do that.
• 14:29
  So hopefully a High Seas Treaty will also allow countries that are, many countries
• 14:34
  do that are fishing in international waters to ensure that they are following
• 14:37
  the rules of the High Seas Treaty.
• 14:39
  So it's still in its infancy.
• 14:41
  It still has to be done.
• 14:42
  It still has to be put into force, but this could be something that
• 14:45
  could be in the long term of it.
• 14:46
  Hopefully the fishery lasts that long.
• 14:49
  But the squid at Mile 201 are a powerful example of why the ocean governance
• 14:53
  needs to be stronger, more transparent and linked to human rights protections.
• 14:58
  Every consumer policy maker and coastal community has a role in
• 15:01
  demanding sustainable management.
• 15:02
  Before we lose, not just squid, but the rich and interconnected life
• 15:06
  that depends on them in the ocean.
• 15:08
  And I think that's something that's extremely important when we look at
• 15:12
  how we manage our oceans in the future.
• 15:13
  We have the tools and they're still coming and they're getting better
• 15:16
  and better, but we need to make sure that they're enacted and we need to
• 15:18
  make sure that countries follow them and the fishing fleets follow them.
• 15:21
  That's it for today's episode.
• 15:23
  I'd love to hear what you think of this new study that was put in.
• 15:26
  I'll put the link of the study in the show notes so you can get the whole paper.
• 15:29
  But I find like these types of new research papers that are
• 15:32
  coming out informative, I'd love to hear what you think.
• 15:35
  So let me know in the comments below if you're watching this on YouTube.
• 15:37
  And if you're watching this or listening to this
• 15:39
  on your favorite podcast app or if you're listening to a clip on social media, you
• 15:43
  can go to speak up for blue.com/feedback.
• 15:46
  Let me know what you think there.
• 15:48
  We'll have a conversation.
• 15:49
  You can delete a voicemail or write it down, like type it in.
• 15:52
  That'd be great too.
• 15:53
  So any type of way of engaging because this is the start of a conversation that
• 15:57
  I would like to continue with you, so let me know what you think on any of
• 16:00
  these different platforms that we are on.
• 16:03
  Thank you so much for joining me on this episode of the How
• 16:05
  to Protect the ocean Podcast.
• 16:06
  I'm your host, Andrew Lewin from the True Nord Strong and free here in Canada.
• 16:10
  Thank you so much for joining me.
• 16:11
  Have a great day.
• 16:12
  We'll talk to you next time and happy conservation.