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ADHD and Emotional Labor: Sharing the Work at Home · ADHDtime On Air

• Daniella karidi, PhD: Hi everyone. Thank you so much for joining me today at ADHDTime on Air. We're going to be talking with Dr. Regina Lark, founder of Clear Path, Professional Organizer in Los Angeles, and someone I've met several times in the ADHD world because she does amazing work bridging topics that I love. Organizing, executive function, ADHD, women. And today we're going to be talking about emotional labor. Regina Lark: Ha ha ha. Daniella karidi, PhD: Hi. Regina Lark: This is gonna be fun. Daniella karidi, PhD: It is, it is. thank you so much for joining me today. And I really want to Regina Lark: Thank you. Daniella karidi, PhD: want to start by saying you wrote a bunch of books, and we're gonna try to stay on topic and talk about one of them today, specially. We're gonna be trying to talk about the emotional labor and why women's work is never done and what to do about it. So start with telling me what made you write that book, and I mean, I loved it, but what made you write it? Regina Lark: well first thank you for letting me talk with you today. I always Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Regina Lark: I always have good conversations with you, Danielle. Well, okay, so my background, my my professional background is a PhD in women's history. And then when I was 50 years old, I was laid off from my job at UCLA, and two months after that, I started organizing because I needed a job. A girl has to eat. And just before my layoff, a month just before my layoff, I went to visit a good friend of mine in the old city of Jerusalem. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: And while I was there, I said, Nadhara, I don't want to be a tourist. How about if I do your kitchen? And she says, Habibti, what does that mean? And I said, Nadara, your girls are in their 20s and you got sippy cups in the cupboard. Just let me do what I do. So I decluttered and organized her kitchen. Good result. Come back to my desk at UCLA. And my unit is dismantled, my position eliminated, and I don't have a job. So two months after that layoff, I told my roommate, I'm gonna organize until something better comes along. And nothing has. And that was eighteen years ago tomorrow. I my company is eighteen years old tomorrow, October first. So In those first two to three years of being an organizer, decluttering and organizing, and I'm in mostly the homes, I'm mostly in the homes of women. It's mostly women calling women. To help them figure out what I call household management, but what is is traditionally called women's work. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: As if you need a particular body part to vacuum, is what I'm saying. Okay, Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Regina Lark: so I I have this huge body of knowledge in my head about women's history. And I am now on the floor with my clients sorting and organizing and having conversations with them. And and several things were happening in those first couple of years. One was I had a very keen interest in the kind of clutter I was observing, and it was a lot. And my clients weren't good at doing homework. And Which surprised me because I'm good at homework, you know. When you have a PhD, you know you're good at homework. You will get it done. All right. So we know that. And so when a client didn't do homework, regardless if she had a PhD, I was just curious about that because again, I would have done homework. And I know not to think of things of how Regina would do it. I've I've learned so much, of course, in 18 years. But the point is this. one client didn't do homework and and she asked for it and she didn't do the homework. And there were just more piles that she didn't sort. And another client, it was as if she was asking me permission to help her decide about letting go of something that was her mom's, which to me Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: was a very benign eyeglass case. But to her, it was her mom's. And so hearing this sense of get asking permission, what should I do with this? Should I let this go? Is what she said. And then seeing the homework part. I started asking my colleagues, like where do you find more information about how people think about their stuff? And I was Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Regina Lark: directed to the Institute for Challenging Disorganization. And I I I took several years of coursework and study where I learned to work with people with brain-based conditions. So I learned a lot about executive functions. And I learned a lot about walking into a room and seeing. Miles a piles and eight tracks and cables. And I think this person probably doesn't have a good relationship with time or sequencing. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: Because in order to get those eight tracks donated, they have to come off the shelf. It has to be on the calendar to take it off the shelf, to put it into a bag, to put it into the car, to take it to the donation center. And those I have learned can be real challenges. So so now I am in this world of learning about executive function. I'm talk talking to clients about this, but I keep talking. Women keep hiring me. And one day I was on the floor, on the on the living room floor with Sylvia, and Sylvia's like, you know, I'm so bad at this housekeeping thing. I'm like, Well, why? Because I knew Sylvia to to be married. There was another adult in the house, there was, you know, teenage, you know, grown kids. And I said, Well, why are you doing all of this? She asked seriously, very innocently, because I'm a liberated feminist lesbian, you know, and I I I I can't imagine not sharing in the workload. You know what I mean? It was like, Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Regina Lark: because it's so much work. So she said, Well, what do you mean? She goes, This is, you know, this is my job. And I said, But it you're not good at it. You know? Why are you why are you putting yourself into this box to do something you're not good at? And I swear, Daniela, boom, the light bulb went up over her head. She goes, Well, How is it going to get done? And I said, well, it's a lot of work. And so we talked about that. And the more, the more I'm hearing how women are talking about their lives at home. And then so that day I told, I gave Sylvia, I said, here's why, here's why you may think it's your work. And we sat down and we did women's history one one. And I went into the separation of the spheres, the the the the Sphere of the household and the sphere of commerce and industry, and and how women were told to go out to the factories during World War Two, but as soon as war was over, told to come back into the home because the home is where the heart is. We hear labor of love and the the emphasis is always on the love, never on the labor. So it was like just being able to create To help her see a different narrative that it didn't Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Regina Lark: have to be this way. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yep. And I I b very much appreciate that. It definitely doesn't Regina Lark: Or Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: need to be that way. Regina Lark: It doesn't need to be that way. But you have to, I think what's gonna be important for a lot of your listeners is learning what it is that you need to name. in order to ship that narrative of what you've named. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: Because so much of the work, which is why this is so hard for folks with executive function challenges, so much of the work of household management is invisible. Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Right. Yep. Regina Lark: And what does that mean, right? Out of sight, out of mind. That's why there's so much stuff out. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Yes. A hundred Regina Lark: Mm-hmm. Daniella karidi, PhD: percent. And as someone that specializes in memory and memory challenges, I I find it even like even more how like, we we think that we we are we forgetful. So if I keep this object, maybe it will help me remember. Regina Lark: Sure. Daniella karidi, PhD: And that adds to the clutter. And now I have twelve objects that are supposed to help me to remember, but none of them really work because I have so many of them. Regina Lark: Well, and then you know, you can you can go even deeper and go, why do I expect myself to remember so much Daniella karidi, PhD: Yep. Regina Lark: instead of trusting that when comes the time I have to remember, I can probably retrace a couple of steps, but I don't have to have that object here. And I get that that's a lot to ask of ourselves too. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Can you give ex some examples for people that are listening about ways to make this emotional labor that's invisible visible? Regina Lark: Well, the way this this conversation actually started was I was at I I was I was thinking about doing something about emotional labor. And I I was I was starting to come up with some ideas for this book and and I was at a a lunch, a network lunch with two guys in their forties, and I think of them as good good good family men. They're smart. They're smart. They have small children. They're very much involved in family life. They feel that they they participate in in all family activity. And I was telling them about my idea for this book. And I said, Will you do me a favor? Will you go home, tell your wife about this conversation? Because I was telling them everything I'm telling you. I said, and then go into separate rooms and write down everything that you believe you do for the family and for the household. Just write it down. No filters, just write it down. He called me the next morning. He goes, my gosh, Regina. He goes, I had no idea that Shelly. She goes, pages. And what she was writing was not only the physical chores. They have they have chores divided, but there's chores and there's chores and there's chores because every time every time it's Friday, the new chores are to transition to the weekend, and after the weekend the new chores to transition to a school day. So everything had physical tasks related to them. And a lot of her tasks that she wrote were tasks that she was anticipating. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: Anticipation is one of the invisible components of emotional labor. Thinking about, thinking about what's coming up, knowing that tomorrow is October first, which means the holidays are less than 90 days away. In fact, We might as well say the holidays are already here. So it's that it's it's the understanding this this whole weight of invisible labor. That is happening at the same time that you are physically tasking the everyday physical labor, and each part of physical labor has several components. So laundry, there's no such thing as laundry. There's sort, there's there's sort, wash, dry, fold, put away. In that order, Daniella karidi, PhD: you forgot buy detergent and pay the electric bill, right? All of those Regina Lark: okay, right, right. But yes, yes, all of the things, yes. So every single task is laden with the invisible ones. Because if you say you're going out, you're gonna you're gonna start the laundry, the invisible task of buying detergent has already been the physical, the thought about buying detergent and the physical task of buying detergent, that's already been accomplished. So It's the th there's a joke in a family that I know and it's w the it was in the book. There's a great cartoon in the book and the family is sitting down, they're having hamburgers and the husband's taking care of dinner, all taken care of. And one of the kids goes, we're at a catch-up, and everybody looks to to the mom and they're like, Why are we at a ketchup? And she's like, I don't even use the ketchup. Why? Why am I responsible for the catch-up? So it's again, it's that it's that assumption of need. I mean, what emotional labor is, as as there's a many ways we can we can look at it, but when we're engaged in the process of emotional labor, we're we're thinking about what's coming up. We're we're there to manage the feelings of the person around us. While we're con while we're constructing the shopping list in our head, it's it's and we're we're putting the shopping list together because we want those we live with to feel that they're listened to and that their food needs are taken care of and you know what they love, and that you're aware of of how many more how many more sippy drinks are in the cupboard. I mean it's it's and you have that awareness because you want your kids to have. You know, it's it's so interwoven. All of the all of the visible and invisible tasks of household management. I I think of this term that people throw around without even thinking, stay-at-home mom, as if. As if she's just staying at home. How about Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Regina Lark: full-time mom? Stay at home mom. The list of tasks that she's engaged in is is is non-stop. And that and there's errands, you know, so she's so Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Yes. Yes. there's a a social media person that I follow that her tag is what do you think I did all day? and and she and and Regina Lark: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. What did you do all day? Daniella karidi, PhD: and she she started it because that question came up when she was on maternity leave. Someone was like, So like you're on vacation, you're on leave. Regina Lark: Yeah, Daniella karidi, PhD: what did you do, Dolly? Regina Lark: yeah. What are you doing all day? Daniella karidi, PhD: So she started keeping a journal and and put it on social media, and this was years ago. And I think now she's like now I think her kid is in college. She started this when she was on maternity leave. Regina Lark: Ha ha ha ha. Daniella karidi, PhD: and it literally like is like in the beginning it was just lists of things she did that day. Like that's how it started. Regina Lark: Yeah, yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: And people were like shocked, like, what do you mean you got all that done today in Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: this this maternity leave, like this like Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: vacation period. Regina Lark: And it could be that her house was also a mess because Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Regina Lark: a lot of those lists include the management of the household. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yep. Regina Lark: Bill paying, list making, all of it. I love that. I love that. Daniella karidi, PhD: My mom used to call it ch my mom used to say that she's ch chief operator and list maker of the household. and I think that's Regina Lark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: that's one question that I I hear sometimes from my clients is what do they do if both people in the relationship are really bad at this? So what happens in those relationships where both of them might have ADHD or some neurodiversity, or both of them are just really bad at at this specific thing of house management. Regina Lark: Yeah. Well You think of what had to happen in that household for them to realize they both can't do it. So there's that. And I I there's gonna Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Regina Lark: be a lot to unpack for them. So once they get to the point that lovingly and kindly they have come to realize that this is not this is not their skill set. And again, getting to that point means you have to understand that the work of household management requires a particular cognitive skill set. It's a higher cognitive skill. Noticing and anticipating are high cognitive skills. So It's not just women, you know, I I I it's so once you can understand that that's really what's going on, then what I would do is look at your budget and see what you can start outsourcing. Absolutely. Laundry, get the laundry done first. Fluff and fold for a lot of families doesn't necessarily have to break the budget, but look around for an inexpensive fluff and fluff and fold and get out of perfect and get to good enough. Become okay Daniella karidi, PhD: Love that. Regina Lark: with good enough. If you're going to outsource anything, some of the outsourcing, there's a term in the book we call radical delegation. And if you're both not good at something, you figure out how to outsource it, or somebody does it to good enough, just get her done. Okay? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Regina Lark: You really want to come to that kind of, you know, just let's get it done. What? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Regina Lark: And and if one person is good at it, I don't think that's the person that should be doing it because they're probably good at a lot of other things and you're gonna start tipping that scale. So so exactly, exactly. Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: That's also a good point. That not being good at it doesn't mean that you have to do it. You might be good at it but still not enjoy it. Yeah. Regina Lark: so if so that's that's one of the first things I would do. If you're both if you both just don't have the ability to plan and process and sequence and and do things in in a time in a in a in a way that is timely for you, then I would then I would look at a budget and see what we can start offloading. if once your kids are of an age that they understand what's hap have an a sense of what's happening in You know, the day-to-day, getting ready for school, getting lunches done, you know, all of those day-to-day assigned tasks, assigned ownership. You know, I think the death knell in any relationship is when one person keeps asking, how can I help? How can I help? How can I help? Now, when I say noticing is a high cognitive skill, and someone is saying, How can I help? That tells me that they're not looking around and noticing what needs to be done. As one woman said, we eat dinner every night at six. The table always gets set. So, what do you mean? What can I do? How can I help? Because now you're saying. That everything about dinner is on me. And you're gonna help me set the table. You know, so it's really to parse out what it is that's really happening. You're here to help the household. You know, the right now the house needs a good scrubbing, not I need help in doing the floors. The house needs, so it's reframing what's really happening. Daniella karidi, PhD: I love that reframe. I love that reframe. I I think that's also th you said before labeling and I think also reframing and making things visible could also help people kind of see where they're because y saying I'm just not good of all of it also always surprised me because you could be not good at washing the floors, but you might be really good at calling the cleaning person and keeping track on paying her. So I think that's that Regina Lark: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: just just saying, I'm not good at this and and and without defining what this exactly is in this relationship, in this situation because when the kids are smaller, this in the house is very different than when the kids Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: are out at in college. Regina Lark: And that and and that's the and you hit the nail on the head because it's not it's never I o I always think of everything as a project. And it even the mic the today's project was to make sure that I looked presentable for our our two o'clock call. I mean that the project it wasn't that I'm just gonna be on a call and I open up the screen. It's it's the planning. And the preparing. It's the it's the sequencing that I did that I chose to do to get to 2 p.m. And so it's not just well, we're gonna clean the house. Somebody's got to do the research to find the cleaner, and someone's got to make sure that they understand how that person's gonna be paid. And and so looking at each task in a much more holistic way to parse it out, there's a great I don't know if you've come across fair play. Daniella karidi, PhD: read about it in your book. Regina Lark: So here's a show and tell. So fair play. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah, yeah, I always love a I love a good show and tell. Regina Lark: Who doesn't? Fair play was written by a thought leader and an attorney named Eve Rodsky. And one day, as the story goes, she made a spreadsheet for her husband. And and she's grown a queendom since then. But it's really about how to how to how to recognize the current narrative And what it means for the family to disrupt that narrative. And what does the disruptive narrative look like? Well, it looks like that there's still a lot of work that has to be done. Now it's it's divided by get her done. So one of the, so she's got this great book, and it's on audio too. But then she has these cool playing cards. And the deck that I have, they're just a little bit. Bigger than a tarot, they're a little bit smaller than a tarot deck. But it's there's a hundred cards for every category under the sun, from caregiving to things that have to happen at home when we go out. And going out is birthday kids, birthday celebrations for the children. You know, put the cards on the table of what's coming up that week or that month. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Regina Lark: And let everybody see. You know, this is a way to make the invisible visible. Because you know that October 14th, there's gonna be a birthday party. That's the plate. That plate goes up in the air. Birthday party, 10-year-old birthday party. What does that mean? That means a gift, that means you know, clean outfit, that means carpool, whatever that means, you keep throwing these invisible tasks up on the plate. Now you got a card, and the whole family talks about what does this mean and who's gonna own it. So that's another way. For families to get a handle on. How to create more equity. Because Daniella karidi, PhD: Not that. Regina Lark: then you're not going to be as so freaking tired. So there's that. Daniella karidi, PhD: that's a win. I I I we were living in Chicago and I started a full time job working for services for students with disabilities at Loyola. And now changed the name to accessibility, but but the before we started, me and my husband, I took one of those poster boards that you write on the wall like and put them all over the wall and Regina Lark: Yeah, yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: I wrote everything I did. As I was doing it the whole week before, like the few weeks before I took the full time position. And I said, okay, if I'm gonna take this job, what are we delegating out of and you can't take more on your plate? Let's assume you can't take more on your plate because he was traveling a lot. So what can we take off here to other people? How do we delegate these things? Like what are we choosing? Because I can't take another thing on my plate before we get rid of some things off off I really wish I took pictures of those because I don't have it, but Regina Lark: I love that. You're really you that you were you were really ahead of your time in this because you knew you knew what was coming up. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Yes. Yeah, I couldn't Regina Lark: Yeah, you knew what was coming up. Daniella karidi, PhD: yeah, I couldn't put anything more on those w plates or those balls in the air. I couldn't add anything. Regina Lark: Yeah, yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: So I had something to come off. So I think for me one of those things that I used is I delegated things like I outsourced some of the grocery shopping, like Instacart. I did things that Regina Lark: Yes. Daniella karidi, PhD: in that's and this was when Instacart was very small, new in Chicago, like people was like and was a lot more expensive. I did that as a strategy to like one more thing off my plate. but I didn't think of the invisible load of putting the things in the grocery, even though I didn't have to go to the store. I still had to put them in that grocery cart. Regina Lark: Yeah. Right. Daniella karidi, PhD: One of the first things I dedicated to my teenagers when they were old enough was that. I'm like, you guys can virtually grocery shop. That's it. I don't have to do that. That's now on you. so I I love the idea of. using the card game to do that. It's a great way. I love the idea that we can have it as a family conversation, that this doesn't stay behind the scenes, that we make it as visual as possible. I Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: I do appreciate also just having these conversations and I'd love to think about what other ways do we have to support change in this area. what else people can do? Regina Lark: I'm so glad you asked because not everybody has a partner at home. Daniella karidi, PhD: True. Regina Lark: So I really also think about solo women Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: or s the solo parent. The solo women with kids, especially if the kids are K through eight, when you're more likely to spend time with other parents, right? So if your Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Regina Lark: child is K through eight and you're a solo single parent, my best recommendation is to seek out the other solo single parents. And Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: and create a pod. Who's gonna do the one person? Only one of us is gonna go Costco shopping. Here's the silly thing about Costco: most people don't have the room to store, you know, 24 packs. So if one person does the Costco, each person, each family can get the six things that they actually need. So there's a way to divide and conquer the co Costco list. you know, how look at the task because you're all doing the same tasks. The same tasks have to happen in every single home. So how can, you know, what can you do to partner with each other? carpooling is one way. a collective on grocery shopping is another way. clothing swaps once a month is another thing, you know, just to bring bring community into your life. You don't have to feel like you're doing it all alone. because really you're all repeating very, very similar tasks. Helping each other come up with homework strategies, going in together to pay for a tutor. There's just a lot that I think solo single parents, you know, it's a heavy lift to get vulnerable and Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Regina Lark: ask for help and setting it up, but I also think that it could be very beneficial. Daniella karidi, PhD: A hundred percent. That's that's great. I I I will admit it's not something I automatically think about and I should think a a little bit about families that are built in d different structure than what I'm used to. Regina Lark: Yeah. And and and then say you are the solo single, you're the solo adult daughter without children and your parents are aging. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: And and it's as if your parents gave birth for you to take care of them in old age. Although I'm sure nobody nobody does that, right? But but again, and so that there's a lot of adult women without children, without young adults in their life that are being called upon to You know, work with their parents. Again, how do you create a collective or a pod or a village around that, sharing resources, caregivers, you know, information about meals on wheels, whatever. It's it's so we don't have to do these heavy lifts of emotional labor all by ourselves. Daniella karidi, PhD: Well, I appreciate that insight. I think it's really important that whatever stage in the life transition you're in, if it's for caring Regina Lark: Go ahead. Daniella karidi, PhD: to little ones or caring for older ones, not shouldering it alone is part of the number one strategies, I think, for coping Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: with with the with the emotional labor and the labor f the physical labor with both sides. Regina Lark: Yeah. the a woman in her fifties will is likely by the time she's in her fifties, she's likely to be managing three households. She's starting to poke into what's happening with her el aging parents. She's got a twenty-something year old that has just launched or Is still away at college or you know, and her own household. So her eye, you know, her her her her her near adult child has left the nest. Her eye is not completely on them, but there's the heavy lifting, there's the mental load of emotional labor. Are they eating? You know, what does the roommate think of the how the how messy they are? I mean, all of that. You're always thinking about what's coming up for that person. You're thinking about Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Regina Lark: what's coming up. For your older mom, because your dad now was just diagnosed with emphysema, you know what I mean? And and all of that. So this the the the emotional labor book, the second edition has a lot more we do a deeper dive into what it's called the the emotional labor life cycle. Daniella karidi, PhD: Hmm. Regina Lark: You know, and then you know, you can do a home study. You can look at, you know. The life cycle of emotional labor at home and how it's showing up for you. And you know, how do you it's I I would love to see families look ahead to what's coming up and then and then preemptively radically delegate it. Whoo, who's gonna fill out the camp forms? You know, your sister's Daniella karidi, PhD: still. Regina Lark: not doing anything. Let her help. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah, all this nightmare camp forms. I I I one of the things I appreciated in the book is you're pointing out, I wrote I saw it in Kindle, so it was page 188, but it could be somewhere else if you're holding the hard copy. but use you this is the quote: disorganization compounds emotional labor. And I felt as if you were calling out me and every other ADHD or I know. by with that statement. So I'm gonna repeat Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: it. Disorganization compounds emotional labor. Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: Tell me more about like why that really felt like you're hitting the nail, the head on the nail. Regina Lark: Well Chronically disorganized folks have shared with me over many years pretty disheartening stories of shame and anxiety and frustration and not and not getting something paid in time. And and this idea of the clutter adds that that nut. Another layer of not good enough. You know, you know, one of the reasons why folks will procrastinate is because they know if they start working on it, it's not going to be perfect because they don't have that next thing that'll really finish it off. They're not okay with good enough. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm. Regina Lark: Don't like good enough. Think for a lot of people, good enough sounds to them like mediocre. And I'm like, it's good enough. Let it fly. So when when we see a lot of clutter, we go right into that. I'm not even good enough to take care of this. And and I because we tend to folks tend to look at clutter as a reflection on who they are. not as a reflection on something that's going on in their brain. They take it, it's like a it, it's like they take it personally. I think a lot of people are relieved when they learn about executive functions. I I tell the story of Maya, the cavewoman. And 100,000 years ago, Maya did not have executive function. She had an amygdala. And our flight or fight brain was intact 100,000 years ago when Maya woke up one morning and rubbed the sleep out of her eyes and walked out of the cave and saw a beautiful, soothing body of water, and she has now their, she has now their cognition. Or speech, but she knows intuitively that that water is good to go into. And the next morning she wakes up and she walks out of the cave and there's this big beast, and she has neither language or cognition. Be like, get the hell out of here, run away. That part of Maya's brain is still here. But what developed over a hundred thousand years is our prefrontal cortex. But every now and again, Maya's brain grabs it. Brings it back here. And that's how we lose track of time. So those ways in which we think about ourselves, the labeling, the judging. So I think that's why it just compounds. Cause because now we can't do anything right. Look at this mess. Daniella karidi, PhD: Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. Regina Lark: So mental load. Daniella karidi, PhD: 100%. A hundred percent. so I like to ask every guest that comes on my podcast, now that they know all these things they learned, like Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: collected and what would they go back and tell young self? What would you go back and tell young Regina? Regina Lark: what would I tell young Regina? Well, I would I I I I could I would like to whisper in her ear, you were gonna have an awesome freaking life. You're gonna have so much fun. Really, I I'm I am so grateful that I found this, that the what I'm what I'm into today. I loved working on my PhD. I mean, every I heard a quote the other day, I've always been happy where my feet are. You know, and I feel that. I I I do feel that. I I love that quote. And and where I'm at today. It's just really, I I'm just very happy. I, you know, you're I don't know how big your reach is for your podcast, but on I and I want to make sure I told you about this. On October 5th, next Monday, I'm st I'm having the first Zoom with a bunch of women to talk about my idea for a conference next year. And Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Regina Lark: I wanna have a conference that's going to help help attendees. really get the current narrative for why they're so tired and exhausted and all of that. And that narrative includes a documentary by a woman named Reshma Sojani. It's called No Country from Others. Daniella karidi, PhD: Wow. Regina Lark: And no country for mothers is it shows the ways in which federal government and other entities and ensured that we wouldn't have free child care or health care or you know that that there's that care giving is not part of the gross domestic product. Do you know what I mean? There's it there's Codified ways to show why we don't have what other developed nations have in terms of uplifting the family. Okay. Daniella karidi, PhD: Right. Regina Lark: emotional labor book shows how all of that external to our our family life, what it looks like at home. Because when you don't have that support, this is what it looks like at home. So I want to explore that narrative, to show the external and the internal current narrative. And then what do we need to do to disrupt that as a collective, as a community, and start a different conversation about this in Los Angeles? That's what I'm going for, girl. Daniella karidi, PhD: Wow, that sounds there you go. There you go. well you're gonna have to keep us updated when Regina Lark: I will. Daniella karidi, PhD: and where and all the the gritty details, because it sounds very interesting. Regina Lark: It could be. It has potential. I say that. Daniella karidi, PhD: I I I also like to ask what would you wanna tell future self? Regina Lark: My future self? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yeah. Regina Lark: My future self? Daniella karidi, PhD: Yes. Regina Lark: Great job. I great job. Somebody told me a long time ago that I they planted this seed in my head about getting ready for the old lady down the road. Daniella karidi, PhD: Yep. Regina Lark: And I will be sixty eight next Wednesday. And I haven't met Daniella karidi, PhD: congratulation. Regina Lark: I haven't met the old lady yet. But my future self is that old lady, and right now she's very excited that I'm preparing for her. Daniella karidi, PhD: I love it. I love it. One of my favorite books, like which the title is the part of like the best. It's a book called How to Prepare Be Hit by a Bus. and it's the whole idea of like preparing your future self, like, you know, having your your stuff in order in case the disaster will happen. and I I really love that. Like, yeah, preparing for your your future self is a really important goal. We can have another Zoom talk about that in another another opportunity. but Regina Lark: Yeah, I'm always thinking about future Regina. I mean that's why I always back my car into the in a parking lot. I back my car in because future Regina just wants to get out. I I make my coffee the night before every single night. 'Cause future Regina wants a cup as soon as she w opens her eyes. Daniella karidi, PhD: I love that. I love that that that Regina Lark: Yeah. Daniella karidi, PhD: preparation for the future and and even the small term and long term thoughts about it. I very Regina Lark: Yeah, for sure. Daniella karidi, PhD: much appreciate it. Can you tell my listeners where they can find you? Where they can find the book, where they can find everything about your company. Regina Lark: the books are on Amazon. So I have Emotional Labor, Why Woman's Work and Is Never Done and What to Do About It, Second Edition. And I also have on there, I wrote what's called Psychic Debris, Crowded Closets, The Relationship Between the Stuff in Your Head and What's Under Your Bed, Third Edition. Each edition came out after I learned a whole bunch of stuff about executive function, actually. And then my website for clutter. is a clearpath dot com and my website for speaking about emotional labor is reginalark.com. Daniella karidi, PhD: Perfect. I hope people find all those resources. I will put the links also Regina Lark: Thank you. Daniella karidi, PhD: in the show notes. And as usual, it's a pleasure talking with you. We can continue for hours, but we have listeners with ADHD and they're gonna lose their attention span. So yes, we did. I'm very proud of us. Thank you so much for joining me. Regina Lark: was I know. But we stayed on course. We stayed on track. We did. All right, Daniela. Thank you. Take care.