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Building an ABA Practice Without Losing Your Soul · ABA Business Leaders

• speaker-0: All the mistakes, but we got to the top. speaker-1: We're also already going through by square root at this time, we also didn't really know that that point you were just selling handbooks. So you had no idea where this was going to get. I don't think you thought you were going to have like almost 2000 customers across the United States. That transition was really hard to find out. speaker-0: all of our energy on getting up the mountain. mean, selling your company can be worse than building your company. speaker-1: Hello everyone, welcome to ABA Business Leaders podcast brought to you by 3pi Squared. I'm April. Hello, hello everybody. You just have, is everything okay? speaker-0: I'm Stephen. Just got like a little coffee grinds in my coffee. speaker-1: ⁓ it just makes it more caffeinated. A little fiber. Yeah. You know, we're supposed to increase our fiber, so coffee grounds are nice. Today you got me and Stephen. No special guests today. Although I could say that Stephen's our special guest. We will be highlighting Stephen today. ⁓ So if you don't already know what we are kind of talking about here is Stephen has written a book and speaker-0: There you go. that right? speaker-1: pre-release is April 14th. By the time this podcast airs, ⁓ should be out for like the pre-release should be outgoing. you should be able to link everything that you need to know in the show notes. So you can go and click on the link and purchase it. So yeah, so Steven, you wrote a speaker-0: So I self-published the book. You can still get it in Apple iBooks, but I don't know anybody that actually uses Apple iBooks. But that is a possibility. it's like, ⁓ it was kind of like a for dummies kind of setup, you know, like, and it was like step-by-step on how to make an ABA practice. I self-published that and it was more of like a step-by-step type thing. And that's how we created the... the business masterclass, right? We kind of used that book as the framework for that. And so ⁓ I wanted to write another book. I don't know. But this time I wanted to do it a little differently, more of a narrative, more of like kind of telling our story in bits and pieces and, you know, the things that we've heard in consults. things we've heard in AMAs, things we've heard in the podcast, right? And so that's kind of what this book is. speaker-1: So the book, drum roll please, is the ABA Business Leaders Guide, How to Start, Grow, and Sustain an Ethical ABA Practice Without Losing Your Soul. And so, you know, there are little bits and pieces within the book that I'm super excited about. I think Stephen's guided you through, you know, the necessary steps and all of the boring stuff, the technical stuff, the make sure you don't forget this stuff and little tricks and tips on how to do things. But throughout it, he's really, I believe, done a really great job of weaving in ⁓ the intention of like sitting with it, right? Like slowing it down and ⁓ just kind of sitting, especially in those beginning stages. of like, am I even doing this? Really making sure that you're anchoring into your why and even throughout all the stages going back and anchoring back into your why. Is there a specific reason like why you chose to do that? speaker-0: I mean, was, you know, from all, like I said, the reason was like from the pod. I feel like this is, ⁓ don't know the best way to describe it. I feel like it's more meaningful than you do it this way because you do it this way. And so like, I tried to weave in some, you know, some stories to kind of say, is the reason why we do it this way, right? This is why. speaker-1: Two manuals. speaker-0: you should consider this at least, right? ⁓ And then the other thing, you know, I had, like I said, we've had several BCBAs read the book, the feedback was better than I would have expected. And then we also had like Nandi, shout out to Nandi, he reviewed the HIPAA section. We had Prem. our billing extraordinaire manager, he reviewed the billing part. had August, our marketing expert. So shout out to August. She reviewed the marketing section, right? And then just all the people from that joined the podcast and the people that were willing to come on free consults and share their story. And that's really what it comes from. I don't know if that answers your question or not. this whole thing, like it's, it's very strange, right? Like we were talking about any other topic, but I feel like it feels really weird. Like I don't like doing this at all. speaker-1: Yeah, I can imagine. speaker-0: My brain almost goes... Like, I remember there was- speaker-1: You're like dissociating, like you're just separating, like you're like. speaker-0: Maybe that's what it is. Maybe that's what it is because like I can remember like the first, I don't know, webinar that I did was for a billing company. And I think it was, I don't even remember the topic. I think it was HIPAA. speaker-1: Hmm, something you knew well. speaker-0: Something that I knew it might have just been how to start up an ABA. I honestly I don't remember anyway You could tell me oh, it was actually this and I would say okay. Yeah, I believe that so Anyway, that's not the it doesn't matter what the topic was so I went into that thing and I was assuming that the the the owner of the company was gonna be there to introduce me and I think she got like tied up or something right and she couldn't Join right at the start and then her assistant let everybody in and I was like, ⁓ you know, like I never did it like I Like I'm the process engineer. I sit in the corner. I do my job. I keep my mouth shut right like that that speaker-1: I mean, when you first started, when those first few years of 3pi squared, you know, one of your biggest things that you're really hoping to work on, to accomplish, don't know, with, you know, your social anxiety and speaking in front of people. And so you started by, you know, you're like, okay, I'll do these webinars, because that was even before you started the podcast, right? speaker-0: Yeah, so the first one I did was for Baba, It wasn't even small talk. It wasn't even small talk. was like, couldn't even, like I couldn't remember my name. Right. And then like, I don't remember the topic right now. I couldn't remember then either. Right. And it was like, what am I here for? What, what, and like, I imagine it kind of like a Simpsons cartoon where you see Homer running out the door, right? Like that was in my brain, right? Like he was like, I'm out of here. speaker-1: Where did I get myself into? speaker-0: And then it just like, and I would just went blank, right? And like, I got super red and I didn't know what I was doing. And then I kind of like, I had been doing mindfulness, I believe at this point. And so like, I took a breath. I kind of leaned into those feelings, right? Of like, my goodness, I'm awful, right? And then I went through it and you know, the feedback from that. which I don't know that I believe it, but ⁓ the feedback was positive. I certainly didn't feel it was positive, but I mean, I got through it and I got through it. yeah, that was kind of the first presentation I had ever done as three pi squared, right? The previous presentation that I did before that was when I was still working as an engineer. And the same thing happened, right? I did it in front of people and like, it was just like, it was gone, right? So that's kind of where I started at. so this is bringing up a lot of those same feelings, right? Like, what am I doing here? Why are you here? What are, not you, like me, right? What are you even, why did you even write this? Like, who gave you the authority to? write a book about this stuff, know, that's kind of where I'm at. this is a therapy session for all of you. speaker-1: I think that a lot of people listening can probably relate in some way or another, right? Because you don't have to have had written a book or even done a presentation to be involved in. things that stretch you and grow you. I think for a lot of BCBAs, I've heard the story of the parent training piece can really feel a lot like this, right? Especially in those beginning years, ⁓ because you're in there or you're telling, like talking to parents and trying to explain to them how... they meet, you know, how you would like for them to change their behavior or things that you would like to get their buy-in on for their child. And, ⁓ you know, even if you're attending IEP meetings or treatment meetings and you're having to speak and share like your, you know, your expertise in front of people. And it can feel for some people more than others, but it can feel like really intimidating and really hard. I know that a lot of our BCBAs in our practice ⁓ would kind of try to get around parent training, especially for some parents the best they could. And that was kind of their, they're like, just, I'm not good at this. I don't have the skill of this. This is uncomfortable. speaker-0: Right. Yeah. So I mean, the like, the fact that they even published this book is a surprise to me. Right. And then, you know, you were there the whole time, but like, I go through it. I would share, okay, let's change this. What are we going to do here? Right. And, and, and then I went through it one last time just because I remembered, okay, there are a couple of things that I wanted to change. And the publisher was like, dude, you're running out of time. Like you need to like finish this, right? Like they were kind of like they want to get it to the print. And so I delayed it like I, cause I just, it was supposed to be out before this. So I'm just grateful that they let me make these changes. but like, like I was going through it. was like, ⁓ man, I didn't talk anything about AI. didn't talk anything. Right. And so there are these areas that I was like, Man, can I add a couple more chapters? Can I change things? I don't like what I said there. I don't feel like that's the right, that's not what I was trying to get across in this section. It's just, was, yeah, so I mean, I could be stuck here forever. So the fact that I was being pushed to get it out is probably a good thing, because I probably, I don't know if I would have ever self-published this. Yeah, so no, it was. speaker-1: Yeah, when we were going through that, like we kind of both like stopped everything for a week and you were like, we've got to read through this book. I need you to read through it. We need to read through it. We went, we printed off two copies and then we sat there straight through like reading through and finding those little tiny mistakes. And Steven's like, I'm not like, no, I'm I'm I'm not putting this book out there. You're like, no, no, I can't believe people are going to read this. Yeah. But I think that I've never published a book, but I know people who have. And even just in the day of podcasts, I've listened to so many podcasts of other authors who have come on and talked about their books. And even people who are like, especially I think in the learning field and then like the growth, like self-growth, self-development, learning, psychology, all of these adjacent kind of fields where it's not like you're just writing a fictional story. However, some people, authors of like novels and fiction writing might feel the same. it's like, you do have that sense of this is not good enough. ⁓ I can't believe this is going out or, I need to add things, I need to change things and have like an ongoing never ending process because I think that's what happens in your brain. I'd love to hear from those of you who are authors listening who have had these experiences. I'm sure Stephen would love to hear from you and what your experiences were and if they were similar. speaker-0: I like I talked to a few people, to a few people that were like our authors, not were authors, but are authors. And they said this similar thing, but like I said, I still feel like I have no business being in this space, right? Like why am I here doing this? ⁓ So, you know, like it doesn't matter what they say. This is all about me. speaker-1: I get that though. I do. do. speaker-0: So like even them saying, yeah, yeah, like this is, I didn't like my books. It was an awful process until you do it, right? Like it is an awful process. And yeah, I'm hopeful that people like it, but I won't believe you if you like it anyway, so. speaker-1: Well, maybe it's less about do you like it and more about is it helpful? Right. Because that's like because that was that leads me kind of into my my next question. Did you have ⁓ an intention going into this? Was there something that you wanted to come out of this for yourself or for others? speaker-0: I mean, two big things that we start off with it, right, is the vision, how important vision is. And I feel like I, you know, when I started the business masterclass and even with the previous book, it was like, okay, we got to start with the LLC. We have to start with the tax ID, right? Like, I'm just giving you the process. Start to finish about how you logistically make this thing. Right? But there is no, okay, why am I doing this thing? Right? What do I want? Right? It's not, it's just here is this thing, but like, how am I going to decorate it? Right? What color paint do I want in this house? What kind of decorations do I want? What do I want when I walk in this house? What do want to hear? What do I want to feel? And so like that, that's kind of what I'm hoping I brought in this book is that that's really as important, if not more important, than the ethical clinical services or the business understanding that you need to start. So I feel like that was one of the... speaker-1: you're saying the vision, the vision work. speaker-0: Right, and so like it ends, it starts with vision and ends with vision, right? And so like that, that's kind of how I encapsulated the book. But like I said, I got lots of feedback. And again, shout out to Mallory. She's our CEU coordinator for 3 Pi Squared, but she's also podcast panelist and she's amazing and awesome. And so she helped me with the vision of this book. And, um, and then, you know, we go into, you know, like, uh, I think I've, uh, probably wasn't supposed to, but I pasted this part into a social media post, um, was like, if you're doing this because you saw TRICARE is $150 an hour, right? You're not doing it for the right reason. Right. And so let's like stop. And so I feel again, like if you're only, only reason for. doing this is because you saw an ad on Facebook that said, hey, you can make $150,000 a year starting your own practice with us, then that is not a reason to do this. There are other ways to make money than to have this be your entire focus. know what I mean? So that those are the kind of, hope it doesn't come off as like too judgy or naggy, right? But also a little bit judgy, maybe a little bit naggy. Like there's more to this, right? There's more to this than just like I said, in the previous book, it was like, okay, this is how you do it. This is what you need. ⁓ And I feel like it's more, There's more to it than what you need. There's also how you want this to be, right? Like what does this look like? So I don't know. I'm rambling at this point. So go ahead and ask a nice question. speaker-1: So is there going to be a second book? speaker-0: Oh, I don't know. We'll see how this one goes. speaker-1: I just asked that to poke you because that's at the end as he was like, ⁓ I didn't add this. ⁓ and like the fear in his eyes when he's like, ⁓ my gosh, I didn't add this part. I didn't talk about this part. ⁓ my gosh, this other part is so important. How could I not have this part in this book and it be like a standalone book? And I said, it's okay, honey, you can write part two. You can start working on part two. And he was like, no. speaker-0: Yeah, I don't know that I would. So we'll see. like, to the tens of people that buy this book, maybe there'll be a second book, but I don't know that I would do it. don't know that I would do it. So. Hey, April, remember that time we forgot to do benefit checks and that client switched insurance companies? speaker-1: Yes, we lost like $20,000. That was brutal. I don't want to speaker-0: Honestly, that was one of the most frustrating parts of running a practice. Just trying to keep up with benefit checks, co-pays, prior authorizations. It was a full-time job. speaker-1: And if you miss even one detail, it can cost you thousands. speaker-0: What if I told you that somebody can handle all of that for you? Run benefit checks, track eligibility, manage prior authorizations, so you could confidently bill and stop wasting your time in pay speaker-1: I would say please sign me up now and where were you 10 years ago? Yes. speaker-0: That's exactly what Silma does. Their platform automates your entire upfront insurance workflow. A benefits check done in under 30 seconds. Trycare, prior off, under three minutes. That's hours of admin work saved every single week. speaker-1: Sona is already working in 48 states, supporting over 50,000 patients, and they're rated number one for prior OSS on G2. If you're ready to stop chasing paperwork and get time back to focus on your staff and clients, go to sonahealth.com or click the link in our show notes. speaker-0: Be sure to mention 3Pi to get an extended free pilot and special pricing just for our listeners. speaker-1: That's okay. That's okay. so... I don't know. was going to add like, there were a couple other questions I had in my mind that I was going to ask. I feel like you kind of already covered them. So I didn't know, do we want to kind of give a little information? Do you want to spill the beans on one of our other really exciting projects that's launching about this time alongside of the book? speaker-0: can sure if you if you would like to you want me to answer that So, yeah, I mean the idea is that we, so this will be a companion book to our updated new release of our Business Masterclass, right? So I'm be adding a lot of different things to this. So it will be new videos going through the entire process, like kind of in the same slightly different, but it'll kind of go on the same flow as the book. ⁓ And then we will also have some other things that come along, go along with it. Like we'll have a guide, are we calling them guided notes? speaker-1: Yeah, we won't give out all the details just yet because we're still working on finalizing all the pieces. But ⁓ if we have that launched out, if we have that ready to put out into the world by the time this podcast launches, or drops, then we'll have it in the show notes. ⁓ But I just wanted to let those of you know to be on the lookout because you know us, we always have something new coming down. coming, what is it? What is the correct way? Say a pipeline was this pipeline where everyone throws out down the pipeline, everything's coming down the pipeline. Well, okay, so back to your book, if I was going to say, what do you hope for the potential business leader or the business leader who is reading your book? What is your hope for them as they're reading it? speaker-0: I mean, the biggest thing, like, and the reason why we started this company was to help, right? To help create amazing ABA practices, right? So that's really the biggest thing is that maybe there'll be some things in there that you didn't think about ⁓ or that you're like, know, but I have more important things to do. So hopefully like it will help guide, you know, your priorities a little bit. And like, again, that's why I kind of added it, made it more of a story type thing. Not that it's fully like that, but like shorter, easier to read, ⁓ where you can learn from somebody else, you know, and say, ⁓ okay. I see what happened here. speaker-1: When I did the final read through with you, kind of to me, was like, ⁓ it's kind of like having a like being in a consult with you. Right. Because like you kind of care tried to like have that conversational like you're just like chatting. speaker-0: Yeah, ⁓ I I tried for it to be similar to like our reels in our podcasts, right? Like, you know, kind of shorter things that you can take from it. You don't have to read the whole thing in one sitting. can kind of skip ahead if you're in an area that, ⁓ actually I only need to focus on billing right now. Like, you don't have to read back. You know, you should, but... Like if you're stuck in a spot right on HIPAA or you're on marketing, you can go to that part of the book and not, so, ⁓ I had to read the last 10 chapters before I can get to this point, right? So that's kind of similar to our podcast. You don't have to listen to it in a certain order most of the time, right? Unless there's a part one and two, ⁓ which we don't do that very often. So that's kind of how the book, at least that was my intention. speaker-1: I was in, have, you know, I think like probably lots of people out there, we have a family chat, right? With, I'm in a chat with my, well, Stephen has three sisters. So all of my sister-in-laws and ⁓ a few of our nieces and are all on a family chat together. And ⁓ we're in Canada and it came up, one of the bookstores here, kind of like the Barnes and Noble of our area is like ⁓ Indigo. And so I knew it was on Amazon, but I thought to myself, I wonder if it's like in a real bookstore, right? And so I went to Indigo and I popped right up. And so then I sent that to the family group chat last night. And and I was like, look, guys, your baby brother published the book. And and they were all like, ⁓ congrats. And wow, I'm excited. And Stephen was like, why did you do that? They're just helping you out. Just helping to give you these nudges. speaker-0: No, no, I'm supposed to do this. ⁓ yeah. So, you know, hopefully, I said, hopefully the book is helpful to you. And, yeah, if you have anything to tell me about it, well, I don't know that I want to hear about it. speaker-1: Alright, well, I was gonna ask it, did you have a favorite part of the speaker-0: So I think the first chapter was probably, you know, like the, the, the introduction of our story and how that kind of went. I feel like that was nice to write and kind of get through that because it was difficult. It was, it was really difficult. And so like, you know, one of the things that I can remember from the business leaders course was, and it's happened a few times where I'll get an email. from someone saying, I started the course. This is a lot. I think I'm just going to continue as a BCBA, right? Just doing, working for somebody. ⁓ And that was great. I was like, awesome, right? So ⁓ it's difficult to be a business owner ⁓ and be a BCBA, right? It was difficult for me to be a business owner, and I didn't have to do any of the clinical stuff, right? for all of those solo BCBAs out there, ⁓ I mean, that's a lot of work, right? So, you maybe I'll delay some of you from starting, or maybe you'll change your perspective. Like being a business owner isn't, well, I don't regret doing it, and I'm glad we did it. ⁓ It's not for everyone, so. speaker-1: And I thought you were going say, HIPAA. And there is this part in the middle where when I was doing the read through, like for the solid read through of the whole, ⁓ I was like, holy moly. Because you know, some of the stuff is like how to manual, like, OK, you got to do this and you got to do this. knowing, a copy in there when you published the first one, which that's all that was, right? was really just a one of like dummies version of how to do this at 101 and you had like screenshots and like you'd press this button and you press this button, right? So it was like a more advanced version of that. But then you kind of weaved in like if you like checking questions and ⁓ speaker-0: I mean, it is highly rated. So if you like dust off your old iPad or your phone and you download the Apple Book, I think it's called Apple Books. I don't even have Apple Books on my phone. you know, maybe I do. I don't even know. Maybe it's automatically installed. It is. Cause like, August showed us it was on Apple Books. ⁓ the new one. speaker-1: Is it even a thing anymore? speaker-0: She for the new one. anyways, the old one is still there and I think it's like $10, right? So if you're like, ⁓ you know what? I would like that, you know, ⁓ clickable looking at screenshots. Now I will tell you it's like. speaker-1: Ancient at this point because there's a lot of tech stuff in there, so I don't know how much of that would be speaker-0: It's, yeah. But I mean, yeah, we, I had ⁓ interviewed people for the book and got there, like HR people and attorneys. I can't believe I'm advertising my old book right now. ⁓ But that sounds about right. So, so there is that. Yeah. But this one, I tried my best to make it last dry and boring, but. speaker-1: Am I allowed to like flash a picture of what the book looks like? speaker-0: I mean, we can share the screen and show the... speaker-1: Oh, I have a great question for you. Yeah, go for it. Okay. So when you see the cover, why did you choose that cover? Because I know people are going to ask, and I know the story behind it. I love the story behind it. And so why don't you share why you chose that speaker-0: Sure, so like it's of Table Rock. That's where, you know, one of our first dates we went on a little hike and because we're both stubborn and we had to show each other up, decided we would hike to the top of Table Rock. speaker-1: So, okay, so more information. speaker-0: Yeah, tell me, me more information. You're the more information. speaker-1: So Table Rock in South Carolina was like a special like, it's like a, you know, a park. It's like hiking and water and all the things, right? A county park or state park. speaker-0: Yeah, I think it's a state park and there was like a river or pond or something that you could go swimming. speaker-1: And growing up, that's one of the places that we always went. was like within an hour drive of our house, we would go up there to go to the mountains. We would go hiking as older kids and we would hike as a family thing. was just something. And so I wanted to share that with Stephen. so we're like, I think I had like, you had like sandals and like nice shorts and a nice like, you know, like a nice like golf shirt or something. And because, you know, if anyone knows him, like that's like nice attire versus his graphic tease, right? He was all dressed up to like, you know, we were still back in the dating stages and I had on like cute little outfit, had like, I can't remember what shoes, but they were not hiking shoes. They were like some little flimsy sandals or something. And so I thought, ⁓ we're just going to do this for those of you who know, like Carrick Creek trails. Like, I don't know, it like a mile loop or something. wandering wall, can you get to see the water and it just you but you're in the nature. speaker-0: The that the seniors do. they're for me. mean, kids and the seniors. a little cute. speaker-1: And so we're like, let's just go do this. Right. And back in those days, we used to do like these just impromptu drives where we would hop in the car. You're like, ⁓ let's go get an ice cream or let's go check out this or whatever. And then we would end up venturing. Remember that we used to just like just go one time we were in my I was in my pajamas. You're like, let's go drive to go grab something. And I'm like, ⁓ we're coming right back. And you're like, yeah, we're coming right back. And meanwhile, we ended up at a car lot. decided to you decided you want to start pricing out. ready to like upgrade your car. And and you were we. And so here I was like, not that I'm not the kind of person that really cares. But still, I was like, I'm in my pajamas. They were the car lot, like looking at test driving cars. Anyway, so it was a similar. It was like, you know, that's just that spontaneous days we used to have. Anyways, back to the story. And so we were just this little stroll in the mountains. And then we get to the part where the sign's where it's like, ⁓ go this way, this way. And he's like, let's go this way. I'm like, no, but that's all way to the top of the mountain. And that's like miles and miles long. And I don't even know it's going to be dark by the time we. get done, like, I'm not going to be up here in the dark with the bears and the mountain lions and all the things, right? And so, and you're like, ⁓ I'll be fine. Let's do it. And then I'm like, I can't remember. There was some level of stubbornness where I was like, you know, got to be impressed. OK, sure. Let's do it. Right. OK, why not? And we didn't have water with us. I think I had like a purse with me or something versus like, you know, and this is too. My like very like, I do remember in my head, right? I was like, I don't have the right, like my very, my, my very organized, organized things and very categories. didn't have like, you're supposed to have hiking shoes and hiking clothes and you're hiking backpack and water and snacks. We didn't even like sign the thing that we're going far. Like we're going to get lost in the woods and we're not going to have anything anyways. That was my own mind. But so. Through that though, we made it to the top. And in all of the years that my family had gone to this place and it was very special to us, I'd never been to the top. So we made it to the top, was like stone at the top. there was this, if you looked, it was this one tree. And it was just kind of like, and it was hazy and it was hot in summer in South Carolina. So you look across at all the beautiful view, except for it was like hazy. So it was a little bit muted, right? But then there was this one tree and both of us were like really fascinated. We're like, look at that. Look at that one tree. It's just as stubborn as the two of us are, right? And so that is a picture that hangs in our home. And I'm actually working on putting a table rock wall gallery art on our staircase, but it's so special to us. And so when the publisher was asking you what kind of... speaker-0: this alone. speaker-1: That was your first idea as you're like you went straight to that moment speaker-0: I mean, it was like, okay, go on here and show me like what you like and what designs and what shapes and I was like, oh my goodness. like I am not the designer, right? Like that's April and our marketing people, they do that stuff. I like this is not my thing. And so the first thing that came to mind is like the only thing that I can think of is this, right? Like we did the same thing with our company, right? It took a lot longer, but it was like, I think we could do this, right? And we just went for it and we did all the mistakes and we got to the top, right? And going down was much worse, but I don't have speaker-1: I do remember that. You know what? OK, so we're going to make this like if we're going to pay connections here. So was like our company like when we when we closed and it was COVID times and we closed and we had to figure out all we tried to sell. We tried to go through. You guys, if you've been around, you know our story, but we tried to figure all of that out and navigate the end of that as you were you were also already growing through by square root at this time. But we also didn't really know. speaker-0: Yeah, that right. speaker-1: At that point you were just selling handbooks and stuff. So you had no idea how quite to the breadth of like, where this was going to go. I don't think you thought you were going to have like almost 2000 customers across the United States. that was like kind of anyways. But that was hard because like going down that mountain was excruciating. I don't know of those of you who hike, you're like, of course, everybody knows that. Well, we we we didn't know that because our level of hiking was like a walk in the woods. And so, but yeah, but that's similar to closing the business and moving countries and, you know, growing this business that that transition was really hard. speaker-0: used all of our energy on getting up the mountain and didn't realize like, dude, you just slide down. No, no, no, no, You have to have the muscles because you're going downhill and you need to be able to stop. You need to be able to change direction. speaker-1: Yeah, and like climbing, like doing like rock, what do call it? Rock scramble. speaker-0: So like it's yeah, I mean, yeah, I mean if we're going down that road of an out, yeah, mean selling your company can be worse than building your company. So yeah, think like so that that just that was the reason why it was it speaker-1: that we share that you should share that when you go on people's podcasts. They might ask you. ⁓ you won't have me to tell all the details, but you can do the best you can. I try. I think it will be. speaker-0: My podcasts are gonna be like 10 minutes long speaker-1: They're really, yep, I wrote a book. It's about building your business. Yep, done. Are we done now? No, I know you're going to do great. You're going to enjoy talking and there are going to be lots of parts that people don't know about 3 Pi Squared that you'll get an opportunity to share. Right? I'm really excited about this opportunity for you. But I will say that the picture on the book is not our exact, sadly, it is not our exact picture of our Table Rock tree. You know, we should do that. We should put that on social media like as we launch this book of like the real tree. ⁓ it's just it was old school, It was I don't know. It wasn't a phone camera. It wasn't an iphone It was I had a blackberry at the time. I mean this was so I believe this was like just from like a little shoot and speaker-0: So this would have been 2006. speaker-1: Yeah, I think it may have been my little, maybe it was a little Nikon little, you know, just one of those point and click like this, like very poor quality and at the time it was great. Yeah. But so I think that that they had to, they could not use that exact picture. So they tried to find a picture as close to it as possible. But we will post the original picture and maybe we'll even dig up some speaker-0: I it was amazing at the time. speaker-1: You know, let's take up some pictures of us on that trip, of us, baby April and baby Steven. Yeah, Steven's here. That was before I turned him gray. speaker-0: barely had white hair speaker-1: All right. Well, thank you for those of you who are listening for listening and allowing Stephen this practice and listening to our, you know, some of our journey and his journey. And thank you, Stephen, for sitting in this uncomfortableness and allowing it. I see your hard work. do. Though I see your hard work through the whole process. speaker-0: now. speaker-1: And especially now. speaker-0: Okay, we have to stop this now. speaker-1: Okay, we have to this now. I could get all mushy, but you might start crying. speaker-0: You speaker-1: All right. Well, thank you everyone for hanging out with us today. This was fun. And if you ⁓ are interested in more about this book, go to the show notes, buy it, read it. Let us let me, you don't have to let him know, but you think you could let me know what you speaker-0: Yeah, and like if you're like, I'm not, driving. I don't want to look at the show notes. Like I put in Amazon, Steven Smith, ABA, soul, and it came up. like it's, speaker-1: Well, I just put that in a Google search and it came up all the bookstores near me that had it. So, ⁓ exciting. speaker-0: I think also sorry, but I think that I get discounts, so if you guys leech out to me, you like want a discount? think I get speaker-1: I think by the time this airs, I think by the time this airs, we might have that figured out and we would have it in the show notes, but. speaker-0: And some people ⁓ also do signed copies and like, don't know anybody who would want a signed copy, but like, if that is something that you want, just let me know and we can try to figure that out too. But yeah, I see people do that and that's weird. But if you want to be weird, I'll be weird with you. speaker-1: I'm getting a signed copy. Yeah. Hell yeah. Yeah, you better. You better give me a signed copy and I'm going to display it on my shelf in my office. Maybe I'll put it on my little shelf behind me. Yeah, we'll add it to that. Maybe you can make like a Lego version of your book. That might be kind of fun. All right, everyone. Thank you for joining us and check out those show notes for the book details, but also for our ABA business leaders. I'm nope. speaker-0: I'm gonna put it right there. speaker-1: Yes, ABA business leaders. Holy cow. Discord group. you. Support group. My brain keeps wanting to say social skills group. is not, although I guess it could be considered that. Discord support group. So check out that. ⁓ It's no cost to be a part of it. We'd love to have you there. Great, great conversation is happening in that group. speaker-0: Hotline speaker-1: And then also, if you have any questions or you want to share your story, please go to the show notes and see the ABA Business Leaders podcast hotline and leave us message. All right. Thanks, everyone. Have a great week. speaker-0: you Thank you for listening to our podcast. Hopefully it was helpful. If you would like to gain access to this entire video, and actually our entire library of videos, please join our ABA Business Leaders membership. You can find that at www.3piSquared.com.