Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Jails to open the doors, let bad guys walk free under shocking new laws

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Jails to open the doors, let bad guys walk free under shocking new laws · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:07
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious XIM Triumph Channel
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Speaker 1: one thirty two. How many bail bond hearings have I conducted?
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Speaker 1: So many? Hundreds, maybe thousands, I don't know, over ten
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Speaker 1: years in inter city Atlanta felony courtrooms. I Nancy Grace,
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Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories, and I am on the alert
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Speaker 1: a major major change in the bill bonding industry right now,
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Speaker 1: and it is going to affect crime victims everywhere, and
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Speaker 1: it is wrong. Please help us stop this travesty of justice.
0:52
Speaker 1: When I first heard this, I thought I was hearing wrong.
0:56
Speaker 1: I thought I didn't understand what's happening. It's how in
1:00
Speaker 1: multiple states. But I'm gonna use California as my example
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Speaker 1: because with me right now, you know her well, Beth Chapman,
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Speaker 1: bounty hunter, along with her her friend and colleague Bobby Brown,
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Speaker 1: Alan Duke with me and also Mark Class, crusader for
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Speaker 1: crime victims Rights and a crime victim himself after the
1:24
Speaker 1: kidnap and murderer of his little girl, Polly. I'm stunned,
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Speaker 1: Mark Class. I'm stunned at what they are trying to
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Speaker 1: do in California and many jurisdictions. I don't want to
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Speaker 1: make it complicated, and but explain to me in simple
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Speaker 1: terms what they're trying to do. Basically, open up the
1:50
Speaker 1: jail doors and let the offenders walk free. What about
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Speaker 1: the victims, innocent victims minding their own business when this
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Speaker 1: goes down. Oh breaks my heart, you know, it just
2:01
Speaker 1: breaks my heart. Criminals are the mute victims that see,
2:04
Speaker 1: that's the problem here what this is all about. It's
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Speaker 1: about eliminated cash bail, so that offenders that are arrested
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Speaker 1: for crimes can be released on their own recognizance under
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Speaker 1: the assumption that they'll show up for trial, which I
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Speaker 1: think it is laughable in the face of it. It's
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Speaker 1: because the rival conviction rate in this country, certainly in California,
2:31
Speaker 1: is very, very very low, despite what you see on
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Speaker 1: TV and the episode of crime shows. So what they're
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Speaker 1: doing is they're taking predominantly guilty individuals and allowing them
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Speaker 1: to rotate through the system without any kind of repercussions whatsoever.
2:52
Speaker 1: So in other words, somebody gets, okay, okay, you're using
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Speaker 1: way way confusing words right now. Let me in stand
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Speaker 1: if I haven't correct Mark class because at first I
3:03
Speaker 1: thought maybe Alan Duke had told me wrong. That was
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Speaker 1: my my first gut instinct that this can't possibly be true.
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Speaker 1: But but from what I understand, it's called Senate bill
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Speaker 1: tent according to Beth Chapman joining me here, and you know, Mark,
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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, I've never really cared about a
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Speaker 1: vendetta on homeless people that may urinate in public or
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Speaker 1: somebody jaywalking. I don't want anybody with a traffic offense
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Speaker 1: sitting behind bars. You know why, A I don't think
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Speaker 1: they should be behind bars. Been b them sitting there
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Speaker 1: is taking the spot of a real criminal, like a killer,
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Speaker 1: a rapist, a child molester, a drug lord. I want
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Speaker 1: that bed open for a real criminal. I don't care
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Speaker 1: if they quickly get out of jail and and don't
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Speaker 1: sit there waiting on their trial for urinating in public.
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Speaker 1: But you have to have a bone of fighting, a
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Speaker 1: real a genuine bond hearing. Because when I would do
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Speaker 1: bond hearing smart class, I needed to get the police
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Speaker 1: report for the police department. I needed to run a
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Speaker 1: g C. I see a Georgia rap sheet, a national
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Speaker 1: rap sheet. I needed to know who am I dealing with?
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Speaker 1: Do I have some money with warrant out on them
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Speaker 1: from another state? I mean, you can't just arrest somebody
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Speaker 1: and then let them walk out. Hold on Beth walks
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Speaker 1: in the whole premise of people being in jail because
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Speaker 1: they're poor is just that it's it's premise. The fact
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Speaker 1: is is that people aren't in jail because they're poor.
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Speaker 1: They're in jail because they broke the law. And what
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Speaker 1: we're doing these days is we're shifting the sympathy from
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Speaker 1: the victims where it should be, and we're putting it
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Speaker 1: back on the poor thug who now can't get out
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Speaker 1: of jail. You know, look, nobody wants to see a guy,
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Speaker 1: a first time offender, someone who's never been in trouble before,
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Speaker 1: someone who's not currently on bond, somebody who's not on
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Speaker 1: parola approbation, languishing in jail simply because of money. There's
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Speaker 1: no problem with that. But we all know in a
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Speaker 1: real society that if a person can't come up with
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Speaker 1: one hundred or two hundred dollars to get out of jail,
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Speaker 1: that's probably because he's a pretty bad guy, or he's
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Speaker 1: probably burned all his bridges, His parents are sick of him,
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Speaker 1: friends are sick of him, and you know, there's gotta
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Speaker 1: be parameters, and there's no common sense to these regulations
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Speaker 1: that they're implementing. They're putting them in with a wide
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Speaker 1: sweeping brush. They're saying anybody with a low line misdemeanor.
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Speaker 1: So we're not talking about just urinating in public, which
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Speaker 1: is the example that keep throwing out. We're not talking
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Speaker 1: about a traffic offense. Misdemeanors. You know what that says
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Speaker 1: to me? Wife beaters, partner beaters, beating it. You know,
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Speaker 1: you hit a kid, you hit your wife. Oh, that's
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Speaker 1: just a misdemeanor. I don't want those guys walking right
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Speaker 1: back out. Just for an example, here in California, rape
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Speaker 1: of an intoxicated person is a misdemeanor, which would mean
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Speaker 1: Andrew Luster, the illustrious career maker for my husband, who
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Speaker 1: had a hundred and eighty seven counts of rape and poisoning,
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Speaker 1: would be eligible to get out of jail at this point. Okay,
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Speaker 1: And another thing I don't want to ignore, Beth is yeah,
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Speaker 1: Bill bondsman, this is how they make their living there.
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Speaker 1: You make money off bonding people out. But here's the
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Speaker 1: rub already, you know, so we can't say, oh, we
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Speaker 1: have no interests. Of course, you have an interest. Fine,
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Speaker 1: but if we didn't have Bill Bondsman, who's gonna go
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Speaker 1: look for the guys on the LAMB cops already are
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Speaker 1: so thinly spread they can't already get all the criminals.
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Speaker 1: So they're gonna go find somebody out on bond. They don't.
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Speaker 1: They don't have enough manpower for that. They don't, and
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Speaker 1: we we don't have resources to do that. See what
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Speaker 1: people forget is that bail Bondsman's are user funded service.
6:53
Speaker 1: We are no tax were at no cost to the taxpayers.
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Speaker 1: This pre trial service program that they're trying to put
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Speaker 1: didn't implement into California is going to cost in the billions. Nancy.
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Speaker 1: I mean, this is an already overstressed, over taxed community
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Speaker 1: where people are paying an enormous gas tax, and what
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Speaker 1: they don't know is that their property taxes are going
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Speaker 1: to be raised to implement this. This is not going
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Speaker 1: to just cost no money. Why Mark Class is joining us?
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Speaker 1: I'm here in Vegas with Beth Chapman, Bobby Brown joining me,
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Speaker 1: Mark Class Crime Victims champion, Mark Dummy down for me.
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Speaker 1: Explain to me. I almost can't believe it. Explained to me,
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Speaker 1: so I can understand what's happening. Well, what's happening, and
7:39
Speaker 1: this is part of a much larger trend in the
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Speaker 1: in the country right now. What's happening is that criminals,
7:45
Speaker 1: there's such a move to unload our prisons that everything
7:52
Speaker 1: is being dumbed down. And certainly this bailis who is
7:55
Speaker 1: being dumbed down to everything that Beth just said. And
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Speaker 1: what's happening is individuals that are being arrested for very
8:02
Speaker 1: real crimes are now going to be able to get
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Speaker 1: out of prison or I'm sorry, they won't even go
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Speaker 1: to jail. They'll have a quick they'll have a quick
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Speaker 1: hearing with a judge. They'll be released back onto the
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Speaker 1: street where they can, of course commit more and more
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Speaker 1: and more crimes. And there's no bond. I mean, wait minute,
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Speaker 1: what's their incentive to come back? Hold on, Bobby, you
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Speaker 1: have you have a theory there is no inCider him
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Speaker 1: to come back. It's ridiculous, it's absurd. It's taken a
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Speaker 1: guilty individual releasing him on his own cognizance and expecting
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Speaker 1: him to come back for trial and be convicted and
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Speaker 1: put into prison. It's ridiculous, Mark, Bobby Brown. We have
8:47
Speaker 1: one thing that people don't understand is that when we
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Speaker 1: post a bond, we have a contract with the court
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Speaker 1: that we will bring that person back to face the
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Speaker 1: charges that they have been charged with on pre trial.
9:03
Speaker 1: They get a pinky promise, and all they do is
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Speaker 1: they say, you know, yeah, of course I'll go to court. Well,
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Speaker 1: what else are they gonna say? Do they go to court? No,
9:13
Speaker 1: who's going to go out and pick them up? Nobody?
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Speaker 1: We do that, And and the disservice is to the victims,
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Speaker 1: it really is. I mean, I don't want these guys
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Speaker 1: walking through my front yard. I can tell you that
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Speaker 1: much with my children. And here here's the other thing
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Speaker 1: to Mark class Beth Bobby. I remember all the years
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Speaker 1: I prosecuted felonies. Every week beginning and end, we would
9:39
Speaker 1: get a notification. I ran the state's business in one
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Speaker 1: courtroom out of many courtrooms of the jail camp. The
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Speaker 1: cases assigned to my judge and me that we're sitting
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Speaker 1: in jail, not out on bond, and it was our
9:54
Speaker 1: duty to try those cases first. Well, I was on
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Speaker 1: trial every other week trying to keep my jail count
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Speaker 1: down down down, or I you know, I get a
10:05
Speaker 1: butt chewing, all right, So here there's not gonna be
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Speaker 1: a jail. Can't they just let the people out? The
10:12
Speaker 1: heat is off. But what's gonna happen? Mark class? When
10:17
Speaker 1: these people come to the bond there is no bond hearing.
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Speaker 1: They get charged the cop, the judges okay, now show
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Speaker 1: up on this date and they walk out at my
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Speaker 1: understanding this and here's what happens, Just to be clear,
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Speaker 1: what's going to happen is as soon as a person
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Speaker 1: is arrested, they have to see a pre trial release worker.
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Speaker 1: Then they are given an eight question questionnaire that was
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Speaker 1: made by the Arnold Foundation, which by the way, is
10:40
Speaker 1: being sued in the state of So they have to
10:43
Speaker 1: feel out a questionnaire. They won't fill it out, they'll
10:45
Speaker 1: be asked those questions. So they will be asked these
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Speaker 1: questions by a pre trial service worker. They will give
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Speaker 1: whatever answers they give, and they will be released mainly
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Speaker 1: based on those things. The Arnold Foundation is being sued
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Speaker 1: in the state of New Jersey because they deemed a
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Speaker 1: guy named um Jules Black a very low lying criminal.
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Speaker 1: He was caught with a gun. They gave him a
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Speaker 1: pr bond on the gun. Three days later he shot
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Speaker 1: and killed June Roger's son in the street. The Arnold
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Speaker 1: Foundation's risk assessment tool is flawed. It's flawed in California,
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Speaker 1: It's flawed everywhere that they're implementing it. They're even implementing
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Speaker 1: it in Georgia. But the fact is is that you
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Speaker 1: cannot trust an algorithm to be able to tell you
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Speaker 1: what a person's past history is. And as part of
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Speaker 1: this very form movement, they do not even want to
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Speaker 1: let the prosecutors, uh, Nancy, they don't even want to
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Speaker 1: let the prosecutors take into consideration what their past history is,
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Speaker 1: what their past crimes were, you know, and and it's
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Speaker 1: actually a hugg a thug campaign. Well, I want to
11:50
Speaker 1: follow up on what Beth just told us to Mark class.
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Speaker 1: This is a real example of where this this legislation
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Speaker 1: is go wing. She mentioned this guy, Jules Black. He's
12:03
Speaker 1: now charged with murder. Now, he had been arrested just
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Speaker 1: days earlier on a simple weapon charge, simple weapons charge
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Speaker 1: and then released three days later. Seventy two hours after
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Speaker 1: being set free by the court, he guns down somebody else.
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Speaker 1: I mean, that is where we're headed. That that's what happened.
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Speaker 1: And I'm taking a look at his victim. Uh he
12:31
Speaker 1: was pulled over front having a nine and nine millimeter.
12:34
Speaker 1: It was confiscated. He was taken to Cumberland County Jail.
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Speaker 1: He appeared in front of a judge. They let him,
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Speaker 1: no bail. He was led out of jail the very
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Speaker 1: same day. No bond hearing, no district attorney trying to
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Speaker 1: hold him behind bars, no rap sheet, run nothing, He
12:51
Speaker 1: gets out. Bam, you got another dead body. Times he
12:56
Speaker 1: shot him. What about it? Mark class and break your heart,
13:00
Speaker 1: you know, And it flies right in the face of
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Speaker 1: victims rights as well, Nancy, because so many states have
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Speaker 1: passed laws over the course of the last twenty years
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Speaker 1: allowing victims or saying that victims need to be notified
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Speaker 1: when their offender is released from prison or is released
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Speaker 1: from any kind of a bond, type of a situation.
13:20
Speaker 1: And and there are no situations anymore. These guys are
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Speaker 1: being arrested. They're putting that right back on the streets.
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Speaker 1: They're endangering police, they're endangering their victims, they're endangering society
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Speaker 1: at large. And absolutely nobody went this is going to
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Speaker 1: be expensive, it's going to create a lot of misery
13:39
Speaker 1: in our society, and the victims are going to be
13:41
Speaker 1: piling up upon each other. Yeah, not class. I can
13:45
Speaker 1: still remember I had been on air all day. I
13:50
Speaker 1: came down to my office this when I was at
13:51
Speaker 1: court TV, sat down, flipped on my computer and there's
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Speaker 1: an email from a viewer that said, Nancy, did you
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Speaker 1: not your fiance's murderer just got out of jail. I
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Speaker 1: had no idea he had. He had map role. If
14:07
Speaker 1: they institute this, this legislation, victims rights will well, there
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Speaker 1: will be no such thing because the speed of putting
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Speaker 1: the person out on the street with no bond or
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Speaker 1: bail hearing, no notice to victims, how are they going
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Speaker 1: to be heard? I mean, this is flies directly in
14:27
Speaker 1: the face of Mary's Law, of the Victims Rights campaign.
14:31
Speaker 1: No victim will have any say in any of this,
14:35
Speaker 1: smart class, No, no, no, no, It's such a horrible situation.
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Speaker 1: This is turning back the talk to the time when
14:41
Speaker 1: we had a crime epidemic in our society, back when
14:45
Speaker 1: your fiance was murdered, Back when my daughter was murdered,
14:48
Speaker 1: when people were afraid to be out onto the streets,
14:51
Speaker 1: and when women were afraid to let their eyes off
14:54
Speaker 1: of their children. We're going right back to it. It's
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Speaker 1: unbelievable and the result is going to be sore crime.
15:00
Speaker 1: We're already seeing it in California with a lot of
15:03
Speaker 1: the other moves that have been made. And it's just
15:05
Speaker 1: heartbreaking that week when they keep using New Jersey as
15:08
Speaker 1: it's as it's a poster child. The New Jersey senator
15:12
Speaker 1: and two assemblymen who wrote the bill in New Jersey
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Speaker 1: wrote a letter and it's probably in one of the
15:18
Speaker 1: packets that I sent you, Nancy, but they call it
15:20
Speaker 1: a complete disaster, and they tell they wrote to the
15:24
Speaker 1: to the Senate leader Rendan in California and said, please
15:27
Speaker 1: do not implement these laws in California. It's a disaster
15:31
Speaker 1: here in New Jersey. What's going on there, Nancy, is
15:34
Speaker 1: people are being like they'll rob someone early in the
15:37
Speaker 1: morning and then they get arrested, and then by two
15:39
Speaker 1: o'clock there in another district robbing someone again. They get
15:42
Speaker 1: arrested the second time in the same day, and so
15:45
Speaker 1: on and so forth. There's about the Atlantic City incident.
15:48
Speaker 1: Best Chapman. Uh just just this week, uh, New York
15:53
Speaker 1: man arrested and released following a domestic violence assault, returns
15:59
Speaker 1: to his hotel to commit a sex assault and be
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Speaker 1: arrested again. It was about five in the morning. Patrol
16:10
Speaker 1: officers respond to the Ballet's parking garage. Uh they get there,
16:15
Speaker 1: they separate the victim, a woman and her boyfriend. The victim,
16:21
Speaker 1: of course, was covered in physical signs of a beating.
16:25
Speaker 1: She had to be treated by medical personnel. His charged
16:28
Speaker 1: with simple assault and according to the reformed guidelines, he's
16:33
Speaker 1: released on a summits, which means a pinky promise to
16:35
Speaker 1: come back to court in the future. What does he do?
16:39
Speaker 1: He gets out of booking in detention at nine am.
16:43
Speaker 1: Even three am, patrol officers respond to the Bally's Hotel
16:48
Speaker 1: and Casino on report of a hotel employee being sex assaulted.
16:55
Speaker 1: A fifty one year old woman pushed into a hotel room,
17:00
Speaker 1: physically assaulted, sex assaulted by who. This guy allegedly jam
17:07
Speaker 1: l Carton Carlton, the thirty two year old guy. They
17:11
Speaker 1: just promised he'd be back in court. The woman is
17:15
Speaker 1: sex assaulted, dragged into a hotel room, beaten and sex assaulted.
17:21
Speaker 1: He was just at the at the booking that morning
17:25
Speaker 1: two hours before mark class, two hours and there was
17:31
Speaker 1: no bill bond hearing. Then there's absolutely no accountability and
17:34
Speaker 1: they don't take the criminal history into account. It's a
17:37
Speaker 1: fake risk assessment that they have. These guys fill up
17:41
Speaker 1: which and no time at all, will probably be all
17:43
Speaker 1: over the internet and every every would be criminal in
17:46
Speaker 1: the world will know how to answer these things and
17:49
Speaker 1: know how to get released back in the into the streets.
17:52
Speaker 1: It's it's it's a horrible situation. That's a good point
17:56
Speaker 1: mark because you know, they sit in jail with each
17:58
Speaker 1: other and they say, and when you go to the
18:01
Speaker 1: risk assessment, here's how you answer the questions. There are
18:04
Speaker 1: eight questions. These are not hard. It's not like they
18:06
Speaker 1: have a revolving test. And you know, Nancy, I just
18:09
Speaker 1: want to give you some um perspective on what the
18:11
Speaker 1: misdemeanors are in California. Giving a gun to a known
18:15
Speaker 1: gang member is a misdemeanor. Bringing a bomb to a
18:18
Speaker 1: school is a misdemeanor. First and second degree rioting is
18:22
Speaker 1: a misdemeanor. You wonder why people are are clouding our
18:26
Speaker 1: highways and walking and blocking traffic because it's not illegal
18:30
Speaker 1: to do so. You know, rape of an intoxicated person,
18:34
Speaker 1: rape of someone who is asleep. These are all non
18:38
Speaker 1: violent misdemeanors. There. I don't want you to somehow minimize
18:45
Speaker 1: what we're saying because of the bail bond industry. Yes,
18:51
Speaker 1: they've got a dog in the fight. If there's not
18:53
Speaker 1: a bail bond industry, they go out of business. Fine,
18:58
Speaker 1: that does not mean that what they're saying is not true.
19:03
Speaker 1: What they are saying is true, Mark class I don't
19:08
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm not explaining it correctly because I
19:11
Speaker 1: really can't believe what I'm saying. But right now, California
19:16
Speaker 1: is about to pass a law a referendum that will
19:21
Speaker 1: completely change the face the complexion of criminal law. Victims
19:29
Speaker 1: are going to be re victimized yet again. I mean,
19:33
Speaker 1: this is a travesty. Mark. How can I state more
19:39
Speaker 1: plainly about what California is considering? Well, California has been
19:43
Speaker 1: doing this for a number of years now, in fact,
19:45
Speaker 1: ever since Governor Brown was reelected. They're finding ways to
19:49
Speaker 1: turn the criminals into victims and the victims into nonentities.
19:54
Speaker 1: We are really the currency that drives a system that
19:56
Speaker 1: allows individuals to be regurgitated onto the streets time and
20:01
Speaker 1: time again. And this is exactly what this is. This
20:03
Speaker 1: is about regurgitating dangerous people back on the streets with
20:07
Speaker 1: absolutely no accountability, with absolutely no recompense to the victims,
20:13
Speaker 1: and they are just going to continue to recommit under
20:16
Speaker 1: false promises that still return to jail when the time
20:19
Speaker 1: is right. And it's absurd. It's absurd, it doesn't. It
20:23
Speaker 1: flies in the face of logic, it's flies in the
20:25
Speaker 1: face of reason, and it flies in the face of good, known,
20:28
Speaker 1: strong policy that requestion. You know, here's another example, Beth.
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Speaker 1: With me is Beth Chapman from A and A one
20:38
Speaker 1: of my new homes. Bobby Brown, her colleague aland with
20:41
Speaker 1: me here also with me, renowned victims rights advocate Mark Class. Beth,
20:47
Speaker 1: you were telling me about and I researched the shooting
20:52
Speaker 1: incident in Newark. What happened? So this is a domestic
20:55
Speaker 1: violence of victim who had had repeated repeatedly been beaten
21:02
Speaker 1: by the boyfriend, and the boyfriend had been released several
21:05
Speaker 1: times in the past. Uh, there was a domestic violence
21:08
Speaker 1: incident happened and he came back and killed her. And
21:12
Speaker 1: at that point the Newark mayor came out and because
21:18
Speaker 1: his I think it was his sister was family member,
21:20
Speaker 1: someone had been a victim of domestic violence that it
21:24
Speaker 1: hit really close to home for him. And this was
21:26
Speaker 1: just last week, Nancy and the mayor came out and said,
21:30
Speaker 1: this is enough. It's enough now. I went to New
21:33
Speaker 1: Jersey last year and I appealed to Chris Christie while
21:36
Speaker 1: he was still a governor, and I told him, if
21:39
Speaker 1: you don't change this, it's going to be a blood
21:42
Speaker 1: bath here in New Jersey. He laughed in my face.
21:46
Speaker 1: He laughed at me, and he said, you guys are
21:48
Speaker 1: just greedy bondsman's and you're just lining your pockets. Okay, Well,
21:52
Speaker 1: you know it's been a blood bath in New Jersey
21:55
Speaker 1: and now even the newer mayor is coming out saying
21:58
Speaker 1: it's got to stop. I think, I said the press release,
22:00
Speaker 1: did you did the New York mayor Mark Class really begging?
22:07
Speaker 1: But you know what, it's it's a deal there unless
22:11
Speaker 1: they reverse it. But what do you wa do to
22:13
Speaker 1: stop California and now Georgia from following suit? Mark? Well,
22:20
Speaker 1: I think that's the only thing that can be done now, Nancy,
22:22
Speaker 1: is to contact legislators, and to contact legislators with absolute outrage.
22:27
Speaker 1: I would suggest that anybody listening to this write an
22:31
Speaker 1: email to their local legislator, UM and I'm talking about
22:35
Speaker 1: on the state level, not the federal legislators at this point,
22:38
Speaker 1: to email them, to write them, to call their office,
22:41
Speaker 1: and to text them if they have the ability to
22:44
Speaker 1: do that, and let them know under no uncertain terms,
22:47
Speaker 1: that they want to restore victim rights, they want to
22:50
Speaker 1: restore criminal accountability, and they want to ensure that we
22:54
Speaker 1: have safe streets, because otherwise, this is a this is
22:58
Speaker 1: a this is a ball. It's rolling down the hill,
23:03
Speaker 1: and it's rolling down fast. It's like a snowball. It's
23:06
Speaker 1: getting bigger and bigger and bigger based on the false
23:10
Speaker 1: information that the proponents are giving to us. Well, i'll
23:14
Speaker 1: tell you another thing, Mark Class. I feel like what
23:17
Speaker 1: you read about in the newspaper about the so called reform.
23:21
Speaker 1: It sounds great when you just read it. Says, well,
23:24
Speaker 1: low level offenses like urinating in public or a traffic offense,
23:28
Speaker 1: we don't want those people languishing behind mars, right. I
23:31
Speaker 1: agree with that, But that's not really what it is.
23:35
Speaker 1: That's not the whole story. I think it's irresponsible the
23:39
Speaker 1: way it's being portrayed. When I first read it, I thought,
23:42
Speaker 1: what's the big deal? Who cares? Uh, it's not that
23:46
Speaker 1: at all, mark class. That is not what's happening, and
23:50
Speaker 1: there's no you know, Nancy has Beth had mentioned earlier,
23:53
Speaker 1: California has reclassified a lot of really horrible felonies to
23:57
Speaker 1: misdemeanors over the course of last several years. And in fact,
24:02
Speaker 1: there's only a very narrow list of violent offenses in
24:06
Speaker 1: the state of California. Anything else that's not narrowly to
24:09
Speaker 1: find is considered a non violent offense, including oral copulation
24:15
Speaker 1: of of I think, what did you say of a
24:17
Speaker 1: of a passed out individual and unconscious individual, child sex trafficking,
24:23
Speaker 1: you know, these are now considered non violent offenses. And
24:26
Speaker 1: somebody can have a list of offenses that goes back
24:29
Speaker 1: forty years, and we're going to start seeing that no
24:32
Speaker 1: time at all. We've in fact been seeing it forever.
24:34
Speaker 1: And those individuals are not going to be judged on
24:38
Speaker 1: that criminal history. It's only going to be the pizza
24:41
Speaker 1: that they stole from a kid or whatever, the thing
24:44
Speaker 1: that they happen to get themselves into at the time,
24:47
Speaker 1: and they're going to be returned right back onto the
24:49
Speaker 1: streets with a big smile on their face and larceny
24:52
Speaker 1: in their hearts. And you know, the thing about it
24:55
Speaker 1: is is that you know, a lot of a lot
24:56
Speaker 1: of your listeners may have remembered Harlem in the eighties
24:59
Speaker 1: before uh the crime bill came, Mayor Giuliani, the Clinton's whatnot.
25:04
Speaker 1: You know, there was so much crime in Harlem that
25:07
Speaker 1: it was, you know, a war zone. Basically, what what
25:10
Speaker 1: proponents of this bill forget is that they are not
25:13
Speaker 1: going to be returning these people back to Beverly Hills
25:16
Speaker 1: and back into the nice, fancy, fancy areas. They're going
25:20
Speaker 1: to be returning these people back into the impoverished communities
25:23
Speaker 1: where they just robbed, cheat and stole. They don't understand
25:26
Speaker 1: that the victims still live there. There's gonna be victim intimidation.
25:30
Speaker 1: There's gonna be you know, the victims are going to
25:32
Speaker 1: be afraid. I remember when Andrew Luster was on the run,
25:36
Speaker 1: when my husband was chasing them, the victims would call
25:39
Speaker 1: my husband and they'd say dog. Every time the bushes
25:42
Speaker 1: Russell outside my window, I shake it and fear. I
25:46
Speaker 1: am so afraid that he is going to come back.
25:49
Speaker 1: There has been absolutely no consideration given whatsoever to the
25:54
Speaker 1: victims of these crimes. These legislators and I, you know,
25:58
Speaker 1: I will throw this in the Senator Hertzberg, who is
26:01
Speaker 1: one of the main authors of Senate Bill ten, who
26:05
Speaker 1: is now accused of sexual misconduct in California, who is,
26:09
Speaker 1: by the way, the only senator has not stepped down.
26:13
Speaker 1: He still remains there today while all of these accusations
26:16
Speaker 1: of inappropriate behavior linger. This is a guy being accused
26:20
Speaker 1: of sexual misconduct who is out here advocating for the criminals.
26:26
Speaker 1: And I just do not understand that when all of
26:28
Speaker 1: the statistics are coming in, by the way, statistics are
26:31
Speaker 1: coming in from Harris County in Texas where this has
26:33
Speaker 1: already been implemented, and they're showing a forty three percent
26:37
Speaker 1: failure to appear rate nancy on the people that have
26:40
Speaker 1: been let out of jail. This is not working. And
26:44
Speaker 1: I do not understand that when legislators from New Jersey
26:48
Speaker 1: and stats from Texas, and and victims, the mother of
26:52
Speaker 1: Christian Rogers has been out appealing to these people telling
26:56
Speaker 1: them this isn't working. Why are our legislators turning a
27:00
Speaker 1: deaf ear to this. And it's something that Marks said
27:03
Speaker 1: earlier because it's trendy well, and what they're basing it on,
27:07
Speaker 1: what they're hanging their hat on their peg trying to
27:11
Speaker 1: justify this is it is claimed by the proponents that
27:16
Speaker 1: it violates a defendants constitutional right in setting bail because
27:23
Speaker 1: it differentiates between those that can afford it and those
27:26
Speaker 1: that cannot afford it. Our constitution is not about money.
27:32
Speaker 1: Our constitution is about protecting the rights. That's why we
27:36
Speaker 1: give people lawyers if they can't afford them. That's why
27:39
Speaker 1: the defendant, not the victim, has all the constitutional rights.
27:44
Speaker 1: This is a way to protect victims. This is a
27:48
Speaker 1: way for prosecutors, be a misdemeanor or felony, to have time.
27:53
Speaker 1: I mean, give me seventy two hours for pete, say,
27:55
Speaker 1: give me a couple of days to run the rap sheet,
27:59
Speaker 1: to run the federal rap sheet, to get the police report,
28:03
Speaker 1: to find out if it should be an enhanced crime.
28:05
Speaker 1: They may be picked up for public your nation, but
28:08
Speaker 1: are they connected to a car jacking down the street?
28:11
Speaker 1: I mean, you have to have time to look into
28:14
Speaker 1: it before you say sure, are O are released on
28:17
Speaker 1: own recognizance? Oh no, I don't want it on me
28:23
Speaker 1: to be the one that advocates r O ur release
28:25
Speaker 1: on your own recognizance? When I let somebody go that
28:29
Speaker 1: just molested a little girl or just did a heinous act.
28:32
Speaker 1: And that's what it's gonna boil down to. And you
28:34
Speaker 1: have to remember some of these people in that twenty
28:36
Speaker 1: four hour period that they're talking about releasing them, Nancy,
28:39
Speaker 1: they're still in the same condition that they were arrested in.
28:42
Speaker 1: That is reckless. If you you know, let's take Otis
28:46
Speaker 1: the town drunk acohol. Let's let's say Otis from the
28:49
Speaker 1: Andy Griffith show years ago. Right. Otis used to come
28:52
Speaker 1: stumbling into Andy's office and he put himself in jail
28:55
Speaker 1: because he knew that he was too drunk to be
28:58
Speaker 1: on the street. And what these people are posing is
29:00
Speaker 1: that we just let Otis right back out in the
29:02
Speaker 1: same condition that we brought him in. That is reckless.
29:05
Speaker 1: That's reckless. To Mark. Class bail bond is based on
29:12
Speaker 1: three main prongs, and they are the seriousness of the offense,
29:16
Speaker 1: previous criminal record, and probability of the perp attending trial.
29:22
Speaker 1: And listen, I've had a purp, a high level felon
29:27
Speaker 1: get away. I started the trial with him. He got
29:31
Speaker 1: out because he was coming on bond. I had to
29:34
Speaker 1: try the rest of the case without him. Well, needless
29:36
Speaker 1: to say, there was a conviction, but that's what it
29:38
Speaker 1: happened to me. And this was on a felony. For
29:41
Speaker 1: Pete's sake, he walked right out of the courthouse one
29:43
Speaker 1: day at lunchtime during his trial. Last I saw him
29:47
Speaker 1: was him in his red leather jacket. I remember it
29:50
Speaker 1: like it was yesterday. It happens. This is not some
29:53
Speaker 1: made up fantasy of the bail bond industry, Wells and
29:59
Speaker 1: ma up fantasy is the idea that somehow eliminating bond
30:04
Speaker 1: is going to create a safer society. I don't know
30:07
Speaker 1: where the reasoning comes from. I I don't understand. I
30:10
Speaker 1: think we're under international pressure. Nancy. Uh. You know, the
30:14
Speaker 1: United States has forever been considered one of the most Uh.
30:18
Speaker 1: Well have to have had a higher percentage of our
30:22
Speaker 1: citizens behind bars in any other But unfortunately, our citizens
30:26
Speaker 1: are committing an awful lot of crimes and they need
30:29
Speaker 1: to be held accountable for them, and that's being eliminated.
30:33
Speaker 1: It's getting to the point where you can do whatever
30:35
Speaker 1: if you want to be a criminal. If you want
30:36
Speaker 1: to be a criminal in the United States, moved to California,
30:40
Speaker 1: You'll be welcome with open arms. By our legislature and
30:43
Speaker 1: by our governor. You know, one thing that I think
30:46
Speaker 1: is really important that is that as a bossman they say,
30:50
Speaker 1: oh it's it's about money, we do a lot of
30:54
Speaker 1: work before we post that bond. We check that person out.
30:59
Speaker 1: We've we've orifly what type of what kind of a
31:02
Speaker 1: background that he has, what kind of criminal background he has,
31:06
Speaker 1: And so that that's what's really important, is that we
31:10
Speaker 1: we have a job and it's important to know that
31:14
Speaker 1: we don't want to release somebody that we know is
31:18
Speaker 1: going to it's about protecting the victim. You know what.
31:22
Speaker 1: We we care about whether that victim is going to
31:27
Speaker 1: uh be he you don't just be released and go
31:30
Speaker 1: knock on our door and blow her head off. So
31:33
Speaker 1: you know, we do you know what, Bobby, We we
31:35
Speaker 1: depend on our judges to make those decisions. Judges go
31:39
Speaker 1: to school, they're highly educated, they're well versed in what's
31:42
Speaker 1: going on. And these laws strip the judge of the
31:46
Speaker 1: discretion that they have had for two hundred years, three
31:50
Speaker 1: hundred years to make these decisions about on bail hearings.
31:54
Speaker 1: Bail hearings are not about whether you're innocent or guilty
31:57
Speaker 1: or you know, you're innocent until proving guilty. Bill hearings
32:01
Speaker 1: have to do with are you going to be a
32:03
Speaker 1: threat to the community and are you going to return?
32:06
Speaker 1: And taking away that discretion from the judges is wrong.
32:09
Speaker 1: You know, Mark, how many times have you and I
32:14
Speaker 1: been searching for a missing person? How many times have
32:18
Speaker 1: we been investigating a case of felony and then we
32:22
Speaker 1: find out the guy who did it should have been
32:26
Speaker 1: behind bars? And I can I tell you how much
32:29
Speaker 1: that burns me up. They should have been behind bars
32:35
Speaker 1: at the time the offense goes down. And this is this,
32:39
Speaker 1: I swear the devil is having a dinner party tonight
32:46
Speaker 1: because of this, a dinner party inviting all of his
32:51
Speaker 1: minions that make these things occur, these heinous crimes. I mean,
32:56
Speaker 1: how many of these cases have recovered because this bill
33:00
Speaker 1: it's completely unrealistic and it puts such a burden on
33:04
Speaker 1: the prosecution. You would have to arrest somebody and turn
33:07
Speaker 1: them out unless than twenty four hours, the risk of
33:10
Speaker 1: a dangerous felon being set free. I don't want my
33:14
Speaker 1: fingerprints on that case. Every time I get a case, Mark,
33:18
Speaker 1: I would remember my fiance being gunned down, And I
33:22
Speaker 1: think if I let this guy go. It's on me,
33:25
Speaker 1: It's my fault. And now prosecutors won't have the time
33:30
Speaker 1: to turn it around, to do the research, to run
33:32
Speaker 1: the rap sheet, to get the police report, to find
33:35
Speaker 1: out what the hey they're doing. And another thing that
33:38
Speaker 1: strikes me, Beth, Bobby Mark, is when you've got Mark
33:43
Speaker 1: class against it, and you have the district attorneys against it,
33:47
Speaker 1: and you have the judges against it, What in the
33:52
Speaker 1: h E double is the California Assembly thinking? What? What?
33:57
Speaker 1: What are they thinking? Mark? Or no idea what they're thinking, Nancy.
34:02
Speaker 1: But to answer your question, we have gone through this
34:05
Speaker 1: scenario hundreds and hundreds of times over the years, and
34:10
Speaker 1: what it comes down to is a small percentage of
34:12
Speaker 1: individuals are committing a large majority of the crimes. And
34:16
Speaker 1: these are the guys that are getting arrested. These are
34:18
Speaker 1: the guys that are facing these bond hearings, and to
34:23
Speaker 1: hold them not accountable is is just It flies in
34:26
Speaker 1: the face of not only reason, but it flies in
34:29
Speaker 1: the face of of of safe streets, It flies in
34:32
Speaker 1: the face of absolutely everything. Because there's going to be suffering,
34:36
Speaker 1: there's going to be victims. Crime stats are going to
34:39
Speaker 1: spike and we're going to find ourselves where we were
34:41
Speaker 1: back in the early nineties. And I think it's really
34:44
Speaker 1: important is that to think about who is making these decisions.
34:51
Speaker 1: There are literally on the people that are being released
34:55
Speaker 1: on pre trial release all our bonds. They there are
35:00
Speaker 1: people that are take that are making these decisions, that
35:03
Speaker 1: take an online course, They have no investigative background, they
35:08
Speaker 1: have nothing. They take an online course and they make
35:12
Speaker 1: a decision that this person is going to be released,
35:16
Speaker 1: and that person gets released, and that I think it's
35:20
Speaker 1: really important to know that they there is nobody that
35:27
Speaker 1: is following up on why they made that decision and
35:31
Speaker 1: how they were able to make that decision, other than
35:34
Speaker 1: they just say, Greenville, this is gonna just make you ill.
35:39
Speaker 1: Four of the five men just arrested after an incredible,
35:46
Speaker 1: heinous daylight shooting. They shoot a man in the head
35:51
Speaker 1: while he's driving about two pm in Greenville. They're already
35:57
Speaker 1: out on bond. The judge let them out on bond
36:02
Speaker 1: at why. They say they would like for the suspects
36:07
Speaker 1: to have had higher bonds, but the lower bonds were
36:11
Speaker 1: likely attributed because the investigators didn't have enough information about
36:17
Speaker 1: the shooting at the time. The bond was set in
36:21
Speaker 1: seventy two hours. They had the information, but it was
36:24
Speaker 1: too late. They're out on bond for gunning a man
36:27
Speaker 1: down dead, shooting him in the head two pm. Brazen daylight,
36:33
Speaker 1: but law enforcement and the judge was not given enough
36:38
Speaker 1: time under the bonding schedule to investigate. And they're out
36:44
Speaker 1: on quote, house arrest, house arrest, a daylight shooting of
36:53
Speaker 1: a man in the head two pm in Greenville. They're
36:58
Speaker 1: all out on bond. Help me out bath four of
37:03
Speaker 1: the five men arrested and a horrific day a light shooting.
37:08
Speaker 1: All right out, I'll bond absolutely going right here. Convicted
37:12
Speaker 1: murderer fights cops, spits blood on them during a traffic stop,
37:16
Speaker 1: and they're free to go under New Mexico bail reform.
37:19
Speaker 1: This bail reform. If you go to u S Bail
37:21
Speaker 1: Reform on Facebook, you can see story after story after story.
37:26
Speaker 1: You will see people a guy who killed a police
37:29
Speaker 1: officer in Colorado, maybe what one week ago, bob last week,
37:33
Speaker 1: last week, free to go under under bail reform. Bail
37:37
Speaker 1: reform is going to cause the most massive pandemonium and
37:41
Speaker 1: chaos across this country. People have no idea how dangerous.
37:46
Speaker 1: Our society is going to become and they can sit
37:49
Speaker 1: and say this as oh, it's just a bondsman's just
37:51
Speaker 1: a bonsman's Look, we're on the front line. We deal
37:53
Speaker 1: with these people on a day to day basis. We
37:56
Speaker 1: know who the frequent flyers are, we know who's a
37:58
Speaker 1: danger to the community, know who to let out and
38:00
Speaker 1: who not to let out. We do this for a living.
38:03
Speaker 1: We do have steak in the game. We put up
38:06
Speaker 1: our own homes, we put up our own collateral. We
38:09
Speaker 1: have insurance companies that back us if we make a mistake, Nancy,
38:12
Speaker 1: it's on us to go out there, find that person
38:15
Speaker 1: and bring them back and and serve them back to
38:17
Speaker 1: the jails. There is no one looking for these people.
38:20
Speaker 1: There is no one going to be out there with
38:23
Speaker 1: no accountability that they Reforms are also being considered in
38:28
Speaker 1: Texas and in Mexico, Alabama, New Jersey, they just took
38:33
Speaker 1: him out in Delaware. New York City. The como has
38:37
Speaker 1: lost his mind. New York City. Can you imagine, Nancy,
38:41
Speaker 1: I cannot. If you're not from New York, don't go there,
38:44
Speaker 1: because it is going to be an absolute dangerous situation
38:48
Speaker 1: for anyone to visit. You know, many years ago, I
38:51
Speaker 1: took an oath to protect other people, to do whatever
38:57
Speaker 1: I had to do within the bounds of ethics, to
38:59
Speaker 1: pretend other people and crime victims. And I know to
39:05
Speaker 1: my core that this so called bail reform is going
39:11
Speaker 1: to put innocent people at risk. I have no doubt
39:16
Speaker 1: about it. Um the state of Kentucky, which had always
39:20
Speaker 1: been the goal standard for bill reform, mandated a risk
39:25
Speaker 1: assessment tool. Everything went sideways. It made a mockery out
39:31
Speaker 1: of the justice system. As a matter of fact, one
39:34
Speaker 1: offender arrested thirty four times and released on an unsecured bond.
39:42
Speaker 1: And this is what I was telling you about there
39:44
Speaker 1: being no no parameters, Like if you're already out on bond,
39:48
Speaker 1: you shouldn't get another one. If you've been convicted in
39:50
Speaker 1: the last three years, you shouldn't get another one. This
39:52
Speaker 1: is a revolving door, over and over and over. And
39:56
Speaker 1: the proponents of bail reform a c o U and
39:59
Speaker 1: double a c P. You know, equal justice under law.
40:02
Speaker 1: All of these people, Nancy, they don't want you to
40:05
Speaker 1: look at how many times they've been arrested. They don't
40:07
Speaker 1: want you to see what they're how dangerous these people are.
40:11
Speaker 1: They think it's bias, and they think that that shouldn't matter.
40:14
Speaker 1: We the people in this country, better stand up and
40:17
Speaker 1: we better tell our legislators that we do not want
40:20
Speaker 1: this and we want strong law and order, because if
40:22
Speaker 1: we don't, we are going into a time that's going
40:25
Speaker 1: to be so dangerous. We're gonna be the woman pulled
40:27
Speaker 1: into the hotel room and beaten and assaulted. Uh. You,
40:32
Speaker 1: your your sister, your mother, your neighbor. I mean, it's
40:37
Speaker 1: it defies comprehension what they're doing. So Mark, tell me
40:42
Speaker 1: what I can do about it? What can we do
40:45
Speaker 1: about it? And it's not just California, No, it's not.
40:49
Speaker 1: It's going this will probably be sweeping the country. And
40:52
Speaker 1: all we can do, Nancy, is make our voices known.
40:55
Speaker 1: Let our legislators, let our elected officials know exact see
41:00
Speaker 1: how we feel about their efforts to make our streets
41:03
Speaker 1: less safe by eliminating criminal culpability and criminal accountability. And
41:10
Speaker 1: you do that through letters. You do that through uh
41:13
Speaker 1: maybe even a petition campaign online. Those are very popular now.
41:16
Speaker 1: You do it through emails, you do it through phone calls.
41:19
Speaker 1: You make sure that your voice is heard. That's All
41:22
Speaker 1: that we can do with citizens at this point is
41:25
Speaker 1: make sure that our voices are heard and this and this. Okay,
41:29
Speaker 1: we have to get on national news, We have to
41:32
Speaker 1: come on shows like yours, Nancy, and we have to
41:34
Speaker 1: depend on people like you who have are very large
41:37
Speaker 1: public figures to help us get the word out. People
41:40
Speaker 1: in the communities are reading just like you did originally. Oh,
41:44
Speaker 1: that seems reasonable and being in public. That is why
41:47
Speaker 1: they are sweeping this country with these lies, because no
41:52
Speaker 1: one is challenging it. Because it seems reasonable that you
41:55
Speaker 1: don't want someone languishing in jail for fifty dollars or
41:57
Speaker 1: because they drink a beer or whatever. But that is
42:00
Speaker 1: not the case. And what they don't understand is that
42:03
Speaker 1: they may have fifty of those cases. They might have
42:06
Speaker 1: fifty shopliftings. The big box retailers are really fed up
42:10
Speaker 1: with this. You know, they've raised the minimum. Now you
42:12
Speaker 1: can steal up to a thousand dollars from these stores
42:16
Speaker 1: and get a summons. We cannot keep doing that. Well,
42:19
Speaker 1: I remember Beth prosecuting, and I do bail bond hearings, okay,
42:24
Speaker 1: And I would read the place report would personally go
42:28
Speaker 1: run all the rap sheets or force my investigator to
42:31
Speaker 1: help me do them all because there'd be so many
42:33
Speaker 1: people and it would be a crush of people wanting bond. Well,
42:37
Speaker 1: I look at the rap. She would be public urination,
42:39
Speaker 1: public urination, public, your national public. All of a sudden,
42:42
Speaker 1: peeping Tom, and I would suddenly I would be ignoring.
42:46
Speaker 1: I'd be like, this is nothing, and I would WoT
42:48
Speaker 1: peeping Tom, because you know that start then thent I
42:51
Speaker 1: turned the page assault, sex assault, peeping Tom, molestation, blah blah.
42:58
Speaker 1: I mean, you don't know until you look in depth.
43:02
Speaker 1: And I'm very, very opposed to this lobby. Yeah, I
43:09
Speaker 1: totally agree with Mark and uh. We all talk about
43:13
Speaker 1: getting a hold of our state senators. Our senators are congressmen.
43:18
Speaker 1: But I want to stress that I think it's extremely
43:21
Speaker 1: important for us to get ahold of our city council
43:25
Speaker 1: members in our own towns, are county commissioners, the people
43:29
Speaker 1: that are in the cities that where they and they
43:32
Speaker 1: are at the driving force. Put these people in upfront
43:36
Speaker 1: in person and ask how are you supporting this. There's
43:41
Speaker 1: almost every police department in the United States right now
43:46
Speaker 1: that have disbanded their Fugitive Warrant Division. That. I mean,
43:51
Speaker 1: it's it's so who's out there actually going after these
43:58
Speaker 1: police department cases, the Sheriff's department cases. They're not our cases.
44:03
Speaker 1: We bond the people out of Jay What Bobby, when
44:07
Speaker 1: you stop at the red light, just look around, because
44:10
Speaker 1: those people on either side of you are at without
44:13
Speaker 1: a bond. They're out walking for a bath. Yes they are.
44:18
Speaker 1: And and Bobby's right. You know what, we need the
44:19
Speaker 1: National Sheriff's Association to speak up. We need the National
44:23
Speaker 1: um d A's Association. It isn't just about the bail agents.
44:28
Speaker 1: And that's why you know there are like Mark Klauss.
44:32
Speaker 1: Mark Klaus has been very vocal about this. He has
44:34
Speaker 1: supported us. He has said, no, we no more hug
44:38
Speaker 1: a thug. We want accountability and we need the other organizations,
44:42
Speaker 1: the district Attorneys, the Alliance of Judges. You have endless
44:46
Speaker 1: facts at your disposal there, Nancy, that you can see
44:48
Speaker 1: there are huge organizations, uh Core the Congress of Racial Equality,
44:53
Speaker 1: if you can imagine, they are completely against this bond.
44:57
Speaker 1: The Brotherhood of a New Destiny is against this, and
45:00
Speaker 1: Victims United is against this. You know, this isn't about bail,
45:03
Speaker 1: but it becomes very handy for people to just blame
45:06
Speaker 1: it on the bail bondsman's. Look, we don't go out
45:08
Speaker 1: and set these people's bonds judges do. We only abide
45:12
Speaker 1: by the law. And what people seem to forget is
45:15
Speaker 1: that bail bondsman's have for two hundred years made it
45:19
Speaker 1: easier for people to get out of jail so that
45:22
Speaker 1: they are not held when they cannot afford it. Bail
45:25
Speaker 1: bondsman's across this country take payments, they make payment arrangements,
45:28
Speaker 1: They drive them to court. They have been the mom
45:31
Speaker 1: and pop operations. What I know. They go find them
45:34
Speaker 1: and drag them in or they lose. The bail bondsman
45:37
Speaker 1: lose their money if they don't show up. Cops are
45:41
Speaker 1: already spread so thin, they don't have time. They don't
45:44
Speaker 1: have time to catch the bad guys much. Let's go
45:48
Speaker 1: find the ones they got out all bond up mark
45:51
Speaker 1: class final thought, Well, listen, if a police officer arrest
45:56
Speaker 1: somebody and sees the guy walking off the door shortly
46:00
Speaker 1: after the arrest, then there's a problem there. We know, Nancy,
46:04
Speaker 1: that you create safe streets by holding criminals accountable for
46:08
Speaker 1: their actions. You make sure that they paid bail you
46:12
Speaker 1: make sure that they are convicted, You make sure that
46:15
Speaker 1: they serve their time, and serve very real time, and
46:18
Speaker 1: crime goes down. You start reversing those trends. Crime goes up,
46:22
Speaker 1: crimes going up now, and this is going to be
46:25
Speaker 1: just another coggin nat wheel which is going to create
46:27
Speaker 1: unsafe streets all over America. Well, you know what, it
46:31
Speaker 1: may sound like, a bunch of theory and legal pulling
46:36
Speaker 1: and pulling and pushing and jockeying. And that's what it
46:41
Speaker 1: sounds like until it happens to you, I know. Nancy
46:48
Speaker 1: Grace Crime Stories signing off, goodbye friends,