Latest / Cristy M. Diaz Podcast Conversations from the Heart / Heart to Heart | Uncovering Roots: An adoptees journey by Ale Cardinalle

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Heart to Heart | Uncovering Roots: An adoptees journey by Ale Cardinalle · Cristy M. Diaz Podcast Conversations from the Heart

0:03
[music]
0:05
Hi everybody and welcome to another
0:06
edition of our heartto-he heart podcast.
0:10
On today's show we have a friend of mine
0:13
named Ally Cardinelli and she's here to
0:16
share her own personal journey as being
0:18
an international adoptee. Um her story
0:22
is worth turning into a tel nolla.
0:25
[laughter]
0:26
When I first heard it um on a podcast
0:29
myself listening to it, I just could not
0:32
believe that this was a true story of
0:35
how she found out she was adopted, how
0:38
she found her biological family, how her
0:42
family grew from this experience, and
0:44
how it made her just set the path for
0:47
what it was that she was supposed to do
0:49
with the rest of her life as she's now
0:51
an advocate. So without further ado,
0:54
Ally, thank you so much for joining us
0:56
today.
0:57
>> Thank you for inviting me.
1:00
>> So from the moment I heard your story, I
1:02
was just blown away. I remember
1:04
listening it to listening to your story
1:06
in the car. Um I love to hear podcasts
1:09
when I'm dropping kids off from school
1:11
and I'm stuck in traffic on the way home
1:15
and I remember thinking, "This deserves
1:17
to turn into a TV show. It's just crazy.
1:21
I cannot believe you lived through this
1:24
and I'm dying to jump into it. Um, but
1:27
first and foremost, please please
1:28
introduce yourself.
1:31
>> So, like you said, my name is Ally and I
1:34
am an international adoptee adopted from
1:37
Brazil and I'm a mom. I have two little
1:41
boys and I'm a social worker and former
1:45
teacher and I, like you said, I speak
1:49
truth to adoption and the adoption
1:51
industry in my practice and
1:55
online, specifically Tik Tok.
1:59
So, we're going to get into all of that
2:01
in a moment, but I want to explore the
2:04
early part of your discovery because you
2:06
commented on the podcast that I listened
2:08
to that you just had this feeling in
2:11
your bones that you were adopted at a
2:14
very young age. How did you even feel
2:18
that so so young? What what that what
2:22
got you going?
2:24
So, it's hard to say because,
2:29
you know, it's not too odd of an
2:31
experience for a child to learn about
2:33
like what adoption is and wonder if they
2:37
could be adopted,
2:39
but I don't think it was quite like that
2:42
for me. It was definitely a knowing.
2:47
And you know, I can't say for sure, but
2:51
I believe my body remembered that
2:53
adoption happened to me. I believe my
2:58
body remembered
3:01
being separated from my biological
3:03
mother. And it's not a far-fetched
3:05
belief because we know
3:08
mothers and fetuses that turn into
3:11
babies are neurobiologically
3:13
connected. We are wired for survival.
3:17
uh mammals of the mammals the human
3:20
species is the most dependent on their
3:23
mothers. We are carry animals. We don't
3:25
come out of the womb uh walking on our
3:28
own anyway. Uh, and I believe my body
3:32
didn't forget this disruption. And I
3:35
might have not always had the words for
3:37
it or couldn't explain how it was
3:41
relevant to my experience, especially
3:44
because I didn't know I was adopted.
3:47
>> Was that something that was just never
3:49
discussed in your home or was it um just
3:53
a a don't ask don't tell or just waiting
3:56
for the right moment?
3:58
So, my dad wanted to never tell me.
4:03
Like, if he had it his way back then,
4:07
uh, I would be here today, well, I
4:09
wouldn't be on this podcast, I guess.
4:11
Um, [laughter] but he never wanted me to
4:13
know. And
4:17
I have three sisters. Uh, and I am the
4:20
only adoptee. I am one of four girls of
4:24
my parents. And of the four of us, I'm
4:27
the only adoptee. And my dad explained
4:30
that
4:32
that his uh intention of not to tell me
4:37
is because he never wanted me to feel
4:39
any different than his other daughters,
4:42
that I was his daughter and it didn't
4:44
matter how I came into the family. I was
4:47
his. And my mom, as she tells me, was
4:53
not completely on board with this line
4:57
of thinking and that I should know. And
4:58
it was an argument between them and he
5:02
eventually uh won out. But like we were
5:05
saying, my
5:08
body knew. I had a knowing. And
5:12
I tell this story of when I was probably
5:14
about six years old. I was in the
5:16
bathroom taking a bath and I was in
5:20
there with my mom and my older sister
5:23
and
5:25
I was, you know, in the bubbles and I
5:27
said, "I I know I'm adopted." And my
5:30
sister, my older sister has cerebral
5:32
pausy and is non-verbal. And she just
5:34
started to like whail and scream and
5:36
like like
5:39
and my mom just froze. And then they
5:43
just she didn't say anything either way.
5:48
And
5:50
time goes on, years go on, and I'm in
5:52
sixth grade, so I had to be 11 or 12.
5:56
And I
5:58
start to put pieces together, but I
6:02
still don't know for sure.
6:05
Um so now my younger sisters are twins
6:09
that were uh conceived through IVF and
6:14
my mom always talks about that journey.
6:17
Uh they were born in 1990 so it was very
6:21
early in the science. So, it's a very
6:23
exciting story and
6:26
and
6:28
she was pregnant with twins and her
6:29
belly was huge and that was a big part
6:32
of the story how people would turn
6:33
around in public to watch her. If she
6:35
stood in the door frame, she almost
6:37
touched the other side and she she a
6:39
pretty petite a pretty petite woman. And
6:42
so one of the twins was having the
6:46
silliest tantrum about how she's not
6:49
really in this family that she's in
6:51
she's adopted. And I'm just like rolling
6:55
my eyes thinking like that can't be
6:57
true. Like we know literally you were
7:00
made in a dish [laughter]
7:03
and and we have pictures of mom pregnant
7:06
with you. And so then I started to think
7:09
about myself and I was like, "Huh?" None
7:11
of that is true for me. And I also had
7:15
to travel with a green card uh from
7:18
Brazil and I had a Brazilian passport.
7:21
And that was always explained to me. I
7:22
was like, "You were born in Brazil." And
7:24
I never asked why and why would you be
7:29
in your last trimester and going on
7:31
vacation? Um right. And but now I'm 11
7:35
or 12 and I'm starting to have
7:37
questions. And
7:41
so I had all of these clues, but I
7:43
really want to drive home that more than
7:46
all the clues I just knew. I knew it to
7:49
be true. And
7:52
so I actually went to school and told my
7:54
friends that I was adopted before I even
7:57
had it confirmed. And I knew I knew that
8:02
the school was going to call home. And
8:06
so I was like, I better
8:09
>> Do you think that subconsciously
8:12
you kind of dug that in to open the
8:16
conversation with your parents?
8:19
>> It's very, very, very possible. And so I
8:24
went home that day and I will never
8:26
forget it. My mom was on her bed and I
8:30
said, "Am I adopted?" And I I knew she
8:33
was going to say yes. I knew she was
8:35
going to say yes. And she did. And
8:42
and you know, that's when she explained
8:44
that why I wasn't told. And you know, it
8:49
was a lot of information. And then she
8:50
let me stay home the next day from
8:52
school and she took me to the mall and
8:56
just showed me a lot of um attention.
9:01
And my dad still wanted to keep it a
9:03
secret. And obviously my old my older
9:08
sister knew because she was about five
9:10
years old when I was adopted. And my
9:14
younger sisters didn't know um and I
9:17
didn't know until I did. And so
9:20
he told me not to tell them or tell
9:23
anyone, but I had already told the
9:25
literally everyone at school. [laughter]
9:27
And
9:29
you know, all he said,
9:33
[laughter]
9:34
>> all he said was, "Again, you're our
9:37
daughter. It's nobody's business. We
9:39
wanted you."
9:41
>> And that's it.
9:41
>> So he still wanted to keep secrecy
9:45
around your adoption.
9:47
>> Yes. Yes, he did.
9:48
>> Did they give you all the details at
9:51
that moment of your adoption or just
9:53
confirmation?
9:56
>> So, I don't know how many details they
10:00
had. My adoption is
10:03
different in a lot of ways. I they were
10:05
I was not adopted through an agency. I
10:08
was an independent adoption. Uh which
10:11
means, you know, my parents were
10:13
represented by lawyers. My biological
10:16
mom was represented by lawyers and um
10:20
they did it without any agency
10:23
oversight. Also, Brazil is not a country
10:27
that typically allows international
10:29
adoption. Uh they want Brazilian ch
10:32
children to be raised in Brazil by
10:34
Brazilian families. And so my mom had to
10:39
petition a judge to allow this adoption.
10:44
>> Wow. Wow.
10:46
>> Yeah. So, uh, obviously, um, that
10:49
happened for her. And I just like to
10:53
point out that it's in 1988. She doesn't
10:56
speak Portuguese at all. And she had a
11:00
little yellow dictionary and is in front
11:02
of a judge, like a word by word,
11:07
um, you know, trying to plead the case
11:10
that she would make a good mother to
11:12
this baby.
11:14
That's amazing.
11:15
>> It's It's Yeah. So, I
11:20
have only met uh a couple of other
11:23
Brazilian adopes, but they were adopted
11:26
in Brazil and then moved to the United
11:28
States later, like with their Brazilian
11:31
family.
11:33
>> Wow.
11:33
>> And yeah, so my story is pretty
11:40
unique in that way.
11:43
So, you find out you're adopted at the
11:46
age of 11 and it's almost like a sense
11:48
of confirmation for you after get you
11:51
get over that sense of I knew it and it
11:54
really started to settle in. Um, how did
11:58
things unravel for you?
12:01
>> So, when I'm 11 or 12, you know, I think
12:04
it's a really cool thing about me. It's
12:07
like I said, it's something I want to
12:09
tell everybody. I eventually did tell my
12:12
sisters and it was fine. I mean, I don't
12:15
remember it being a huge deal. I
12:17
remember that like little jaws dropping,
12:20
but uh but um
12:24
yeah, I mean
12:27
I'm uh I'm Latina, but I'm a white
12:30
Latina and my family is
12:32
Italian-American,
12:33
so I don't really stick out as, you
12:37
know, the adopted one. And it wasn't
12:40
something really top of mind. And you
12:43
know, whether my dad didn't want me to
12:46
know or anyone to know because of his
12:48
own fears or insecurity, I think it's
12:52
part of it. But I also think that what
12:57
he said was true. He never wanted me to
12:59
feel any differently than his biological
13:01
daughters. And I never did. I never ever
13:04
did. To this day, I never ever have. You
13:07
were saying that your dad from that
13:09
moment on just uh wanted to keep that
13:12
kind of as a family secret.
13:14
>> Yes, he did. And so I always felt
13:20
that it would be hurtful
13:23
or make people uncomfortable if I even
13:26
talked about being adopted. So I didn't.
13:29
And also it was something that was
13:32
easily able to fade into the background
13:34
because like I'm saying, I don't look
13:37
particularly so much different than my
13:40
adoptive family that it's like, "Oh,
13:42
there's the adopted one." You know what
13:43
I mean?
13:45
>> And so
13:46
it was kind of like that for
13:50
years until I got into my later teenage
13:53
years. And I struggled a lot with my
13:57
mental health from pretty early age. I
14:00
was in therapy when I was 8 years old. I
14:02
was a very withdrawn child, easily
14:05
distracted,
14:06
and I had a lot of trouble socially,
14:10
like making friends, keeping friends,
14:13
making the right friends. And all of
14:16
this, you know, started to get more and
14:19
more serious as I got older and started,
14:24
you know,
14:26
engaging in some risky behaviors and
14:30
experimenting with different things. And
14:34
now I got to an age where I started to
14:35
have real questions. Where did I come
14:38
from? Why am I adopted? you know, things
14:41
that really weren't
14:44
top of mind in my early, you know, early
14:47
adolescence. Um, but then, you know, the
14:50
the older I got, the more
14:53
>> intense my feelings were getting. I was
14:55
a teenage girl and
14:57
>> Right.
14:58
>> and then I felt like I didn't have the
15:02
space to still I didn't feel I had the
15:05
space to talk about this and I really I
15:08
really didn't. Um, and the few times
15:11
that I would have that I did bring it up
15:14
in the past, my dad was upset and and I
15:17
felt that I was hurting his feelings.
15:21
And so now I'm I'm just really
15:23
struggling. I had a lot of years where I
15:26
had increasingly more serious um mental
15:32
health issues going on. you know, major
15:35
depression
15:36
and uh a form of anxiety called
15:40
depersonalization where I started to
15:42
feel like I wasn't real, things weren't
15:44
real, and I had a relationship, you
15:49
know, one of my first boyfriends or
15:51
person that I dated ended really
15:54
abruptly and violently, and it wasn't
15:58
something that I bounced back from. this
16:00
depersonalization
16:02
got really scary and I had thought that
16:05
I lost my mind. I thought I was, you
16:08
know,
16:10
broken and mentally ill forever. And,
16:14
you know, I don't know how to explain
16:17
this to somebody that hasn't been
16:20
through it, but it's like watching a
16:22
movie that's really strange to you and
16:26
you can't turn it off. And so, it's my
16:28
life. It's I'm watching it. Um, but I
16:31
don't feel a part of it. And this just
16:34
got worse and worse and worse. And I got
16:37
to a point where I felt like I was going
16:40
to be like this forever. I didn't know
16:42
how to talk about it to anyone. I
16:44
thought I was crazy. I thought I was
16:46
broken. And I thought the only way out
16:48
of this was not to live anymore. And
16:54
And so I got help. Um, I got help and I
16:58
went into a couple of different
17:01
treatment programs. I got stabilized
17:03
first and then I went to
17:06
um a treatment center, a three-month
17:08
treatment center and I
17:11
>> Yeah. And I started
17:15
to feel better and um I did get
17:18
stabilized. I felt real and in the world
17:21
and now and now I was well enough to
17:23
start dealing with some of the
17:25
underlying issues that got me here in
17:28
the first place. And so now I'm 22 years
17:32
old and my this this treatment center
17:36
was in Florida. We're from New Jersey.
17:39
So my parents flew down for a family
17:42
session that my therapist insisted on
17:45
and she sat my mom and my dad and me and
17:50
said, "We're going to talk about
17:51
adoption today."
17:54
And
17:55
that therapy session changed the
17:58
trajectory
18:00
of maybe my life. [laughter] Not to be
18:03
dramatic, but
18:05
>> but it was it was the first time that we
18:08
had an open conversation. My dad cried
18:11
and he's like a Jersey Italian guy. And
18:16
you know, my mom said her piece about,
18:19
you know, what she wanted to do
18:21
differently. And not that everything was
18:25
solved and resolved in that
18:26
conversation, but it completely
18:28
shattered the ice where I finally felt
18:32
safe to acknowledge the fact that I even
18:34
am adopted. And like I said, it wasn't
18:38
all healed and all perfect after that.
18:41
But it was a huge
18:44
it was a huge step in my own healing and
18:46
our healing as a family. Um,
18:50
>> finally allowed you to open up to your
18:52
family.
18:53
>> Exactly. Exactly.
18:55
And
18:58
>> so then years now more down the line, I
19:03
started to know that the struggles that
19:05
I was having, a lot of other adopes were
19:09
having the same struggles. You know, I
19:12
have really great parents that love me a
19:14
lot and and did everything they could do
19:17
to give me opportunities and a really
19:20
privileged life. And I still struggled
19:24
with the things that I described. And
19:27
you know, in my treatment center, I I
19:30
don't know. I'm trying to remember how
19:32
many women there were. I would say the
19:35
max 30. It had to be less, but let's say
19:38
30. Three of us were adopes.
19:41
So,
19:41
>> wow.
19:42
>> So,
19:44
if you think that's 10% of the 10% of
19:49
the residents there
19:52
and 2% of the population is adopted. So,
19:56
I just
19:57
>> Wow. So it's like a statistic that you
20:01
know adoptes are over represented in
20:05
settings like this uh hospitalizations
20:08
treatment centers and I was seeing this
20:11
statistic in front of my face and also
20:14
the other adopes that I you know grew up
20:17
with also had some struggles and
20:23
so you know very slowly I start to put
20:26
the pieces together that one, this is a
20:31
experience that adoptes
20:35
often experience. And I and I began to
20:38
understand that my reaction to losing
20:41
that boyfriend really had very little to
20:44
do with that boyfriend. and this hitting
20:48
that trauma wound of loss and
20:50
abandonment
20:52
and
20:55
and so that is was the start of my
21:00
healing journey and having these words
21:04
and understanding to put to my
21:05
experience that nothing was ever wrong
21:07
with me. something happened to me and I
21:11
was reacting in turn in a way that made
21:15
sense when I was able to understand the
21:18
consequences of this neurobiological
21:21
disruption between adoptee and their
21:24
biological mother.
21:26
>> That is fascinating.
21:29
Wow. My mind was when you explained that
21:33
to me. Can you speak a little to um once
21:37
that opened the door in your family
21:39
dynamic to discuss it? Was it something
21:42
that just became very easy for you to
21:45
fall into or was it a gradual process
21:48
with your parents and your sisters to
21:50
talk about it at home?
21:52
>> So my sisters were like it was always
21:55
whatever you know it it was not the same
21:58
as it was with my my parents. Um, and it
22:02
did make it a little bit easier, but I
22:05
still was like teetering the line of
22:08
>> um, you know, not wanting to upset
22:12
anybody or seem like I didn't love my
22:15
parents or I wasn't, you know, thankful
22:17
for my life. And so,
22:20
>> so I felt safer to, you know, talk about
22:24
the fact that I am adopted and I didn't
22:26
come from my mom's womb and stuff like
22:28
that. But as far as
22:30
>> you know, it wasn't something I was
22:32
bringing up very often.
22:34
>> Right. Of course. Of course.
22:36
>> Yeah.
22:36
>> And and then,
22:39
>> you know, I thought about searching a
22:42
few times when I was in college. I went
22:46
home and I needed to find my high school
22:49
diploma to apply for something. I don't
22:51
even remember what, but I'm like going
22:53
through papers in my mom's office trying
22:56
to find my diploma. And I found the
22:58
folder of my adoption papers, which I
23:00
had never seen in my life. And I guess
23:04
this answers your questions of how safe
23:06
I felt to feel about things. I stole
23:08
them. Like I I just put them in my
23:10
suitcase and flew them back to Miami.
23:12
And I didn't say anything to anyone.
23:15
>> No way.
23:16
>> Yeah.
23:17
>> And at this point, I want to bring up
23:19
the complete coincidence that I reached
23:23
out to you on Instagram right after I
23:25
heard your podcast. having no idea that
23:28
you're a fellow Miami Hurricane.
23:30
>> Yes.
23:31
>> And that you were down here in Miami at
23:33
the University of Miami getting your
23:34
education degree.
23:36
>> Yes.
23:37
>> So, you're a fellow Miami Hurricane.
23:39
Doc.
23:40
>> Doc.
23:42
>> Doc. And um you and I have the
23:45
similarity that we both went through the
23:47
education program at the University of
23:48
Miami together.
23:49
>> Yes. Yes.
23:50
>> I mean, what what a coincidence is that?
23:54
So, at this point, you're living in
23:56
Miami. You're at the University of Miami
23:59
and you feel your adoption file. And
24:02
>> so, I want to mention something else
24:04
about Yes, I put it in my suitcase. And
24:06
I want to mention something else about
24:08
the experience of living in Miami as a
24:11
Latino woman because like I I grew up in
24:15
like New Jersey suburbia, very mostly
24:18
white area in Miami from the first day
24:21
that I moved there to almost every day
24:24
somebody would approach me and assume I
24:26
speak Spanish
24:27
>> or for sure [laughter]
24:29
>> and I want to tell another story. So
24:32
there and that was something I never
24:33
experienced before. And even though
24:36
Brazilians, you know, the language is
24:38
Portuguese, not Spanish. That's, you
24:40
know, beside the point. I was working at
24:43
a restaurant on Miami Beach, prime
24:46
Italian, and there was a [laughter]
24:50
there was a big party of these Brazilian
24:53
guys, and I was their hostess, and they
24:57
um they yelled out Brazil when they saw
25:00
me. And I just burst into tears. It was
25:03
the first time that had ever happened to
25:05
me in my whole life that somebody
25:08
pointed out to me and was like, "She's
25:10
Brazilian. She's one of us."
25:12
>> And it was this really, you know,
25:15
powerful moment. And then they were like
25:18
asking me to go out with them
25:19
afterwards, which I did not do. This is
25:21
besides [laughter]
25:23
um but I
25:24
>> Let me ask you a question that I I have
25:26
yet to ask you actually. So, being that
25:29
you were born and raised in New Jersey,
25:31
suburbia, and you come to Miami, and you
25:36
mentioned before that you felt it in
25:38
your bones, in your body that you were
25:40
adopted. When you got to Miami, did you
25:42
feel that connection to our culture?
25:46
>> So,
25:48
it's hard because I felt like within and
25:51
without, right? Like like
25:58
I
25:58
>> because I know you mentioned that you
26:01
were um a very touchy feely person with
26:04
your family and that
26:06
>> you always had that innate like let's
26:08
hug, let's cuddle and your sisters are
26:09
like no not really.
26:11
>> Yeah. No. So, so yeah. And it's funny
26:14
because
26:16
um I went to college uh after I got out
26:18
of that treatment center. So like I said
26:20
I was 22 and so I was 22 and a sophomore
26:23
in college. So, it's a little bit older
26:25
than the uh my fellow classmates. And
26:28
so, I moved downtown. I didn't live in
26:32
Coral Gables where the campus is. And mo
26:35
most of my friends um were people I met
26:39
in my building and people I met um
26:42
through my building and um and then
26:45
girls I met at work, other hostesses.
26:48
and almost everybody is uh Latino or
26:53
Hispanic. And so it was
26:57
a little bit bittersweet because I was
26:59
finally, you know, around people that
27:02
are at least adjacent to my culture. I
27:04
had a lot of Colombian friends, South
27:06
American friends and
27:10
but then it was like I can't dance like
27:12
them and I don't talk like them and so
27:18
It was kind of like,
27:20
you know,
27:21
>> bittersweet.
27:22
>> Yeah. Yeah. And like a goose that was
27:25
raised by chickens and now I'm with
27:27
other geese, but I act like a chicken.
27:29
[laughter]
27:31
>> And
27:32
>> so what did you do with that folder?
27:34
Okay. So, I get back to my little studio
27:38
apartment in downtown Miami and I take
27:41
it out of my suitcase and the first
27:44
thing I remember
27:47
is seeing my name as Alexandra Alves for
27:51
like on my original birth certificate.
27:53
And that that was so bizarre to me to
27:56
think that until my uh adoption was
27:59
finalized, I was a different person, a
28:02
different name. I was a Brazilian. I had
28:05
a Brazilian, you know, uh, mom on my
28:08
birth certificate and so I saw her name
28:11
for the first time, too. And for adoptes
28:16
that were in completely closed adoptions
28:18
like mine, any little piece of the
28:21
puzzle means everything.
28:25
And when I'm in community with other
28:28
adoptes, it's something that we just see
28:30
eye to eye here. tiny little morsel of
28:33
information you have about who you are
28:35
and where you came from is like so
28:38
coveted. So this this piece of
28:42
information was huge,
28:45
>> huge, huge, huge.
28:47
>> And so the first thing I did was search
28:50
her up on Facebook
28:53
and
28:55
uh her name Alves is like not a unique
28:58
last name in Brazil. you probably go to
29:00
the, you know, walk down the street and
29:02
you can find 20 alveses.
29:05
>> And um so I I knew the area where I was
29:10
born, so I like searched it up all in
29:13
Facebook and I saw I don't know maybe
29:15
like 20 people with this same name
29:17
living in the same area. Um and at the
29:20
at the time my my family, my adoptive
29:23
family was going through some issues. uh
29:27
nothing to do with me personally, but
29:29
just like family things, uh big changes
29:31
going on. And I was like, "This is not
29:33
the time for this."
29:36
And so I put it away. I put it to the
29:40
back of my mind. And I eventually
29:42
admitted to my mom that I did this, that
29:45
I had the folder. And she was like,
29:47
"Ally, like, you could have told me.
29:49
It's okay." She's like, "But I do want
29:50
them back because I don't want you to
29:52
lose them." Um, which [laughter]
29:56
um, which
29:57
>> I don't trust you with your birth
29:59
certificate. You need to give it back so
30:01
I can put it back under the mattress.
30:03
>> Well, I mean, it's not completely
30:05
unwarranted. I do tend tend to be a
30:08
little disorganized. [laughter]
30:10
Um,
30:11
>> can you tell the story of your birthday
30:14
gift and how you had asked
30:17
>> for something in particular to find your
30:19
birth family and how your older sister
30:22
just lost it laughing cuz she um she had
30:26
the missing piece you needed.
30:28
>> Yes. Okay. So like I said at that point
30:31
I put it away, put it to the back of the
30:33
my mind and even in my own you know
30:38
I would go back and forth of whether
30:40
this is something I wanted or something
30:42
I wanted to look into.
30:45
>> And then I would it was going to be my
30:47
28th birthday and my mom and my sister
30:50
my older sister went to this therapeutic
30:54
massage therapist. Oh I guess that's
30:56
redundant. a massage [laughter]
30:57
therapist who was also a psychic medium.
31:02
And
31:03
>> and so I asked for a gift certificate to
31:08
go see Sandy and my mom was like, "Why?"
31:12
And I said to her, you know, maybe
31:14
she'll connect with somebody in my
31:16
biological family and I could have like
31:19
some insight.
31:21
And my mom was like, "Okay." But then my
31:24
sister Tonelle, we were all at the
31:26
kitchen table and she starts screaming
31:29
and going nuts and laughing.
31:32
And so I'll try to make a long story
31:36
short, how I was matched, I guess, with
31:40
my family is my sister who has cerebral
31:44
palsy, my mom hired a Brazilian woman
31:46
named Anna to help take care of her. And
31:51
so my parents were trying to
31:55
conceive and then we're thinking about
31:56
adoption. And Anna's sister-in-law and
32:00
her brother were OBGYNS in Brazil. And
32:05
by some alignment of the stars, they
32:08
were connected with um
32:11
a patient who was pregnant with me. And
32:17
so that's how I got matched in this like
32:20
weird
32:23
this weird uh I don't know domino
32:25
effect. And
32:26
>> yeah, it's crazy. And so Tonielle, my
32:30
sister, my older sister, is friends with
32:33
Anna on Facebook. And you know, then
32:37
basically she's communicating, all
32:38
right, you're being really silly because
32:40
we can just, you know, send Anna a
32:43
message and she can probably hook you
32:45
back up. And that's exactly what
32:47
happened. So Anna
32:51
Anna um Tonielle's old caretaker um gave
32:57
me Jani that was her sister-in-law's her
33:00
Facebook and that was my mom's my
33:03
biological mom's doctor and also
33:07
uh I was basically in some kind of
33:09
informal foster care with Jazani and her
33:11
husband while this adoption was
33:13
finalized. So my mom's doctors took me
33:15
home to their house until, you know,
33:18
this all got sorted and I went to the
33:20
United States.
33:22
>> Your OBG, the the doctor, the OB that
33:25
delivered you took you home for four
33:27
months and
33:29
>> Yeah. Yeah.
33:30
>> took care of you until your mom was
33:33
ready to bring you home.
33:35
>> That is wow.
33:37
>> Wild. Yes. Wild. Wild. Very strange and
33:41
different. And
33:43
>> [laughter]
33:43
>> uh so
33:45
I messaged Jani on Facebook and I'm
33:48
still not sure what I want out of all of
33:50
this and Jani doesn't answer me. And
33:54
then my mom, my adoptive mom messaged
33:56
Jani and says, "It's okay. You can talk
33:58
to her." Seconds later, I get a message
34:01
from Jazani.
34:04
>> Wow. She was waiting for permission.
34:08
>> Yeah. Which whatever. Um, I was a adult
34:11
woman, but it's okay. Whatever. And
34:14
>> Wow.
34:15
>> And
34:16
>> I guess it's mom code.
34:18
>> Yeah. Yeah. I guess it is mom code.
34:20
That's a good way of putting it.
34:22
>> And so,
34:24
>> so I'd never asked to do anything. I
34:27
just wanted to say like, hey, I'm, you
34:30
know, the baby you took care of and 28
34:33
years later and this is what I'm doing
34:35
in my life and thanks for keeping me
34:37
safe. basically. And
34:41
>> and she's like, "Okay, well, I'm going
34:43
to uh I" She's like, "I'm in the north.
34:45
Your mom's in the south. I'm going to
34:47
put a message on a radio station." I
34:49
didn't ask for any of this, but I was
34:51
like, "Okay." Like, "It's in the
34:52
universe's hands." And it was so fast.
34:57
So, in my biological mom's little
35:00
Brazilian town, like little cars drive
35:03
around playing the radio station. And so
35:06
they said her name and they were like,
35:08
"If anyone knows her, have her call."
35:11
And so that's how they found her. And so
35:17
Jazani like a day later was like, "This
35:20
is her phone number. This is her
35:22
Facebook, this is her address, and she's
35:24
waiting to hear from you." And that's
35:26
how we found each other. And so
35:33
I looked
35:33
>> at that moment.
35:37
It was surreal. Uh, I was teaching at
35:40
the time, which is also like a full
35:43
circle moment because I wound up being
35:45
an ESL teacher and all my students are
35:48
uh, Latino, Latina, Hispanic students.
35:51
And so, it was another thing of like I
35:54
keep, you know, finding myself in these
35:56
circles. But anyway, and then they
35:59
always knew what was going on. And I did
36:01
couldn't remember how they got all into
36:03
my business, but um uh I got the text
36:08
message and
36:11
I guess it was because we're talking
36:13
about how, you know, I'm South American
36:15
or whatever. But anyway, I got the text
36:17
the Facebook message from with all of
36:19
this information and it's like in the
36:21
middle of class and I like put my phone
36:24
and I'm like, I can't right now. And my
36:27
students knew what was going on. And I
36:29
had like a little rectangle window. And
36:31
I was like, I'm not going to look till
36:33
after school. I had like a million
36:35
little faces like trying to peek into
36:37
the window as I like went I was on my
36:40
work computer at school like desktop
36:42
computer and I went into Facebook and I
36:46
saw her picture from for the first time
36:50
and like trying to think of like did I
36:52
see this picture all these years ago in
36:54
Miami when I was searching up her name.
36:58
And so that day I I did send her a
37:02
message. I looked up her address on
37:05
Google Earth to see her house. And uh
37:09
and uh I had a uh and that day I found
37:14
out that I have three siblings in Brazil
37:17
that always knew about me, which
37:21
really put my heart uh to rest because
37:24
one of the reasons I went back and forth
37:27
about searching was what if this mom
37:29
moved on with her life and I just wasn't
37:32
a part of it and I would upset her or I
37:34
would upset her family or she has other
37:35
kids that don't know. And
37:38
one of the first messages, she was like,
37:40
"I've been waiting for this day for 28
37:44
years."
37:45
And that same day, I got a message from
37:48
all my siblings, from cousins, and and
37:51
I'm in Google Translate translating
37:53
these messages back and forth,
37:55
>> right?
37:55
>> Um, and it was just a really surreal
37:59
day. And it took a little while to get
38:03
into like real questions, you know, and
38:06
the big question is always going to be
38:08
why? How did this why did this happen?
38:11
How did this happen? Why am I, you know,
38:12
why am I an adoptee? Why am I adopted?
38:15
Um and so she explained her story and
38:20
really briefly um she was orphaned as a
38:25
teenager and
38:28
she had an on and on and off again
38:32
boyfriend and she had a baby with him
38:35
and you know she was struggling to
38:38
survive. She had her as a teenager and
38:41
she, my sister, went to go live with her
38:44
paternal grandparents and my biological
38:47
mom took a job as a live-in nanny.
38:52
Uh, and
38:55
so when she found out
38:59
she was pregnant with me, her boss, the
39:02
woman whose house she was living in,
39:06
was like, "I I you live here to work and
39:09
you can't live here with a baby." And so
39:13
Jazani was actually this lady's doctor.
39:16
And
39:18
uh so she bought my biological mom to
39:21
her which is how like like I said this
39:24
weird collision of dominoes
39:27
and
39:33
so
39:33
>> there's another coincident huge
39:36
coincidence to your story here.
39:38
>> Yeah. So
39:39
>> which is go ahead.
39:42
>> Right. So, I wound up being adopted by
39:44
Americans and we already had uh Anna,
39:48
who was a Brazilian woman, but later on
39:50
we had another um another young lady who
39:55
was about 19 years old at the time who
39:59
my mom met while she was in Brazil. This
40:02
young woman wanted to come to America
40:05
and and so she said, "Come come work for
40:07
us." And so this woman came and she like
40:12
has I still know her and love her to
40:14
this day, but she's been in my life my
40:17
whole life. Um, at one point she went
40:20
back to Brazil and had got married and
40:23
had a family and
40:26
and then at another point she left her
40:29
baby in Brazil. um because of the
40:32
circumstances, the way that she could
40:34
take care of him best was go to the
40:35
United States to make money and send
40:37
money back home and not be with her
40:40
baby, which is devastating.
40:43
And
40:45
my own biological mother had to be
40:48
separated from her baby and was helped
40:50
as a living nanny was raising someone
40:52
else's child. And so the irony there is
40:59
pretty painful.
41:01
And so after
41:04
hearing this and how
41:08
uncaringly her boss handled this whole
41:11
situation, how cold she was, my heart
41:17
broke for her. And it was the first time
41:19
I knew that she really wanted me and she
41:23
she was already struggling to parent the
41:26
the daughter that she had. This wasn't a
41:29
woman who was
41:34
doing anything, you know, that would be
41:36
unsafe for a child. She was um just
41:40
surviving.
41:42
And
41:44
so a couple years later, not long after,
41:47
which is actually I've learned now is
41:49
not very um uncommon, she got married
41:52
and had more kids. And you know, I
41:58
I've been reading a lot of research and
42:00
it's something that happens a lot that
42:02
not long after an adoption, an expectant
42:04
mother gets pregnant and parents her
42:07
child. But anyway, my and so she told me
42:12
this story
42:14
and how she struggled with her own
42:17
mental health for years with depression
42:19
because of this loss. and she asked me
42:23
if I could ever forgive her. And it
42:25
never in all my years, it never
42:29
occurred to me that I had something to
42:31
forgive her for.
42:35
But I also
42:38
I guess I didn't consider her experience
42:41
as much as I was considering mine, which
42:44
I guess is fair. Um, and my heart just
42:49
broke and I I sobbed and
42:54
>> uh, spring break was coming up for my
42:57
district and I told my I was like, I'm
43:00
going to Brazil. That was like I made
43:02
the decision in that moment after you
43:04
know that text message exchange with her
43:08
and my dad is like this is not going to
43:11
like a major city like this is you know
43:14
kind of a you know out of the way like
43:17
how are you going to know what to do and
43:19
I'm like well you guys did it without
43:21
the internet um
43:23
>> with a little book.
43:25
>> Yeah. But my mom was my my dad was like,
43:28
"I want your mom to take you." And so we
43:31
wound up going together and staying with
43:34
Jazani the doctor. So
43:38
>> full circle.
43:39
>> Yeah. Yeah. So 28 years later, we're
43:42
staying with her and which was helpful
43:44
because Jazami is the only person that
43:47
was in that orbit that speaks English.
43:49
So that was
43:50
>> okay.
43:51
>> Really helpful. Um yeah. So, I we go to
43:55
Brazil and
43:57
um my one of the first things we do is
44:01
she's like, "Okay, we're going to go to
44:03
your mom's house now." And I was like,
44:05
"Oh my god, can I take a shower?" Like,
44:06
I was so nervous.
44:09
>> And so, we went together. Um, we pulled
44:13
up to the house and my biological mom is
44:15
just on the lawn like crying and
44:17
screaming and she's just like hugging me
44:20
and holding me and she's a little little
44:23
lady. She is very petite.
44:25
I'm I'm like 5'6 almost 5'7. She's I
44:30
don't know if she's 5'2 and I just like
44:33
tower over her
44:34
>> and she's just like holding me and
44:37
hugging me like she wants to like lift
44:39
me in the air and and then my my mom, my
44:43
American mom and my Brazilian mom are
44:45
just like holding each other and crying
44:47
and uh everybody's crying. And then we
44:50
go into the house and
44:53
this lady who I've never met in my life
44:55
before um pulls me onto her lap and
44:57
she's looking at my fingers and she's
44:59
looking at my toes like she's looking at
45:01
her baby for the first time in you know
45:04
almost 30 years and
45:07
>> that is so beautiful.
45:09
>> Yeah. So it was a really um
45:13
it was a perfect trip. like there's I
45:16
have a younger sister who we just like
45:18
fell into the easiest relationship.
45:22
Um and so it was it was really
45:27
like you said it was a a beautiful
45:30
thing.
45:31
>> And how lucky are you to have actually
45:34
found your biological family when so
45:37
many adopes don't have that luxury or
45:40
that
45:41
>> uh family that supports it? Yeah. So
45:45
there's, you know, I have been in
45:47
community with adopes for
45:51
coming up on 10 years now. And so I have
45:54
heard a lot of stories and a couple
45:57
things can happen when things, you know,
46:00
aren't such a good story. one they
46:02
search and people have passed away
46:06
or you know there's a secondary
46:08
rejection where you know something I was
46:11
afraid of is them saying I've moved on
46:14
with this part of my life my family
46:16
doesn't know and that's something that's
46:19
something that does happen you know and
46:22
also I it's not easy to
46:26
build a relationship
46:30
for everyone on,
46:31
>> you know, [clears throat] for whatever
46:32
their circumstances
46:34
may be. And a lot of people are hurt and
46:37
have experienced trauma and extreme
46:39
grief that they've never moved through.
46:41
So, reunion isn't easy, even in the best
46:45
of circumstances.
46:48
>> Absolutely. Right. Sure. Well, you so
46:50
you started your career in education,
46:53
then it morphed into social work and
46:58
during COVID, you actually found your
47:00
advocate voice through social media.
47:02
>> Can you talk more about that?
47:05
>> Yeah, so uh like you said, I was a
47:08
teacher and
47:10
more than the academic side of it, I
47:13
loved building relationships with my
47:15
students. I loved being around them. I
47:17
loved being a support for them. you
47:20
know, I was that teacher where you know,
47:22
my kids were coming to me to open up
47:24
about things and
47:27
uh you know, especially the population
47:29
that I was working with that was so
47:32
important you know mo most of them were
47:34
very new to the country
47:37
and so that's you know I started doing
47:41
uh trainings on social emotional
47:43
learning and then I decided that I
47:45
wanted to kind of change course and so I
47:49
I got my degree in in social work and
47:54
then when I graduated COVID came um not
47:58
very long after. So my whole plan was to
48:01
be a therapist and get my clinical
48:03
license and then the world took a left
48:07
turn. And so to make money, I started
48:10
reselling my clothes on Poshmark and I
48:13
started to uh work online and then I
48:17
still had this desire to work with
48:20
people and make help people feel better.
48:22
So I started uh working with small
48:26
business owners and entrepreneurs who
48:29
were also struggling with anxiety. And
48:32
so I was building this little online
48:35
coaching business. And so during the
48:38
pandemic, Tik Tok became was like now
48:41
becoming the thing. And so I went on to
48:44
Tik Tok to, you know, promote my
48:46
business. And then I saw this video of
48:49
an adopted parent completely
48:52
oversharing the adoptee and their life
48:55
stories, giving details. I was nobody's
48:57
business. And so I sent a message to
49:00
this person, friendly message, um like
49:04
hey you might want to know as an adoptee
49:07
that this you know that this is their
49:09
story to tell and maybe want to dial
49:11
back the details.
49:14
I naive me I thought they were going to
49:16
say oh that makes total sense let me
49:18
stop. Instead I got blocked
49:20
>> and they really upset me or I was
49:23
shocked which I wouldn't probably be so
49:25
shocked nowadays. I've been a little my
49:27
skin has toughened up since then. But so
49:30
I made I made a video talking right to
49:33
camera saying what I said to that person
49:36
in the message that adoptes stories are
49:40
theirs to tell. The circumstances of our
49:43
adoption are details that we should be
49:46
able to share only if we want to.
49:49
Especially especially with the
49:52
understanding that throughout our lives,
49:55
like every little piece of information,
49:57
like I said, is so coveted and
49:59
important. And for somebody else to take
50:02
it upon themselves to share that stuff
50:05
is something that myself and other
50:08
adoptes who feel like me really, really
50:11
take issue with. And so I made that
50:14
video and other adopes
50:17
started to comment back and then I
50:19
realized that there was a very small but
50:22
there was a community of other adopes
50:24
and I was still trying to promote my
50:26
business and then I don't know it just
50:28
snowballed into more and more and more
50:31
adoption content.
50:34
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I understand wanting
50:37
to be a parent more than anything in the
50:40
whole world. And I want every person to
50:42
find a path to parenthood
50:45
that is not wrought with ethical issues
50:49
and does not start with loss. And I
50:52
would like to see biological families
50:55
stay together whenever that is safe and
50:58
possible and that child is loved and
51:00
wanted.
51:02
And so yes, it is a big topic that we
51:05
could talk about for h a very long time
51:07
and I would love to come back to talk
51:09
about that.
51:09
>> That would be amazing. I would love to
51:12
dive more into this. I mean there's just
51:16
so much out there that we really don't
51:18
know about in terms of the world of
51:20
adoption. I for one I'm learning along
51:23
with everything you share. Um, and I
51:26
found your story just,
51:29
you know, I I I can't help but wonder
51:32
hindsight's 2020.
51:35
Knowing what you know now, what would
51:37
you tell Ally 15 years ago?
51:42
So, if I, the adult Ally, knowing what I
51:44
know, could talk to this child, I would
51:47
tell her
51:49
that the way that she's feeling is
51:51
normal or or or typical for well, first
51:55
I'd tell her that she's adopted because
51:57
she's deserves to know and and that I
52:01
would say some of the struggles that
52:03
she's having are really common for other
52:06
adopted people, too. and that there is
52:09
nothing wrong with her and that she is
52:13
creative and she has a strong sense of
52:16
right and wrong and it's okay to lean
52:19
into that and you're going to find your
52:21
people and you're going to find your
52:24
voice
52:26
and
52:30
it is okay to express how you feel and
52:34
if you don't feel safe talking to mom
52:36
and dad there there you have aunts and
52:38
uncles and grandparents and a therapist
52:41
or a journal. It is okay to feel how you
52:43
feel and it's okay to find somewhere
52:45
where you can express that.
52:47
>> Yeah. And is that what you tell these
52:51
families that you consult with today?
52:53
>> How do you guide them?
52:56
So I think the most important thing that
53:01
I tell the adoptive parents is their
53:05
number one job is to create an
53:06
environment where all feelings are okay,
53:09
all questions are okay.
53:12
and helping them build that environment
53:16
of security and safety and building up
53:20
their children and being as open and
53:22
honest as they can be. And another
53:27
important thing is
53:30
to it's okay to say I don't know and we
53:32
can find out um if that's possible. And
53:36
I also help these families make an
53:40
adoption as open as possible
53:44
um
53:46
to support that connection between an
53:48
adoptee and who they are and where they
53:50
come from. And so that could look like a
53:54
different things from family to family,
53:56
but that's what I'm supporting families
53:58
in doing. And
54:00
so the adoptee in their life never has
54:03
to have this discovery that I had
54:08
which we call coming out of the fog,
54:10
right? When we when we see that adoption
54:12
is actually really nuance and there is
54:14
pain and there is grief and there are
54:16
these practices that we need to look at.
54:19
And so for a lot of adopes, you know, we
54:24
call this, like I said, coming out of
54:25
the fog. And so I help uh adopted
54:28
parents raise children that never have
54:30
to have this experience.
54:33
>> Ally, if somebody's looking for you
54:35
today, uh where can they reach you for
54:38
more information and more assistance?
54:41
>> Sure. So you can always reach out to me
54:43
on my website which is
54:45
wildheartcollective.care
54:47
care and there you can uh send me an
54:50
email and check out some resources. And
54:53
also my platform to learn more about
54:56
what we've been talking about today is
54:59
on Tik Tok. You can either search my
55:01
name and you'll find me or WildArt
55:04
Collective.
55:08
>> Ally, thank you so much for sharing your
55:10
story with us today and being so open
55:12
and honest. Um you've we love to open
55:17
doors here. Nothing is off the table at
55:19
Heartful Living. We're all just trying
55:22
to get through life together and
55:24
enjoying the journey along the way. And
55:26
we're so appreciative that you've been
55:28
so open and honest today.
55:30
>> Thank you. Thank you for giving me the
55:32
opportunity to tell my story and speak
55:35
truth to this.
55:37
>> Thank you. And I hope you'll come back
55:38
and we could dive deeper into more
55:40
because it's I find it something that
55:43
you know not a lot of people talk about
55:45
and it's definitely worth shining light
55:48
on.
55:49
>> I would love to. Thank you so much.
55:51
>> Thank you Ally. Bye everybody. Have a
55:53
good day.
55:55
[music]