Latest / Rad Chat / E219: Sophie Davis, Emma-Praer Breger and Rachael Williams - The Modern Therapeutic Radiographer
Transcript
- Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:00) Hello everyone and welcome to Rad Chat, founded by me, Jo McNamara. Naman Julka-Anderson (00:04) And me, Naman Julka-Anderson. Rad Chat is a forward-thinking global knowledge hub where healthcare professionals can advance their expertise in therapeutic radiography and oncology. Unlike traditional academic resources, we blend real-world experience, expert insights, best practice, and patient perspectives. Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (00:21) We make advanced knowledge engaging and accessible, supporting continuous learning and professional development without compromising patient care or your personal time by providing insights into both technical skills and career development, helping you to progress confidently in your field and shape your professional future. Naman Julka-Anderson (00:38) Just to let you know, our episodes may contain sensitive and difficult topics that you might find distressing or triggering. Please consider checking out another episode. Jo McNamara (00:47) So this is episode 219, which is part of the Education and Workforce series, where we're going to be hearing from our guests this evening, Sophie Davis, Emma-Praer Berger and Rachael Williams from London South Bank University, talking about their educational year one book. Welcome everyone to the Rad Chat Studio. How are you all doing? Sophie Davis (01:07) Thank you very much. Rachael Williams (01:07) Good thanks. Sophie Davis (01:08) Yeah, good. Emma-Praer Berger (01:09) Good, thank you. Sophie Davis (01:10) Hot, but good. Rachael Williams (01:11) Yes. Jo McNamara (01:13) It is slightly warm for anyone who is watching on YouTube or on Spotify or anywhere where you can see us. We all look quite rosy cheeked but yeah Rachael Williams (01:21) Mm-hmm. Jo McNamara (01:22) we can't complain about the weather because we Sophie Davis (01:24) Yeah. Jo McNamara (01:25) complained about all that rain didn't we so we we've basically scuppered ourselves yeah absolutely. Rachael Williams (01:28) This is very true. Jo McNamara (01:31) Right so I'm gonna start with you Emma if that's okay would you like to introduce yourself please? Emma-Praer Berger (01:38) Hi, my name's Emma Berger and I work with Sophie and Rachael at LSBU and I'm a lecturer. It's nice to meet everyone. Jo McNamara (01:47) Thank you, Rachael. Rachael Williams (01:49) Hi, I'm Rachael Williams. I'm the course director of the Therapeutic Radiography Programme at London South Way and I work with Emma and Sophie. Sophie Davis (01:58) My name is Sophie Davis and Jo McNamara (01:58) and thank you. Sophie Davis (02:01) I am a lecturer at London South Bank University. I just started my maternity leave so that's exciting. Thank you. Jo McNamara (02:08) Congratulations! So tell us a little bit about what got you into academia to start with Sophie? Sophie Davis (02:18) So I did radiotherapy as a masters. I actually think Naman might have been the year above me at UWE. Yep. Naman Julka-Anderson (02:30) Yeah? Sophie Davis (02:30) So I did biomedical Rachael Williams (02:30) Ha ha ha Sophie Davis (02:32) science in Oxford Brookes and I just really liked the kind of, we did like a cancer module on third year and I was just so interested in it. And then a couple of my friends had done radiotherapy. So. Yeah, I was just really interested in finding out a bit more about it. And then I decided to do a masters and then I went on to get a job at the Royal Marsden where I kind of went up through the bands and then went into a practice educator. And I just really enjoyed like teaching and helping students and knowing that I was putting, you know, the next kind of cohort of radiographers into the world and helping to shape them how I would want radiographers to be. And I had that kind of influence and just helping students, you know, at a time where they're feeling like quite vulnerable and stressed about getting through the course. And I was kind of that person that they would come to. So I really enjoyed that side of things. And then, yeah, a job came up at London South Bank and I just went for it basically. So yeah I've been there for about five years now I think as lecturer but yeah that's how I kind of got into the academic side of things. I think the opportunities for me just came up at the right time. Obviously Covid kind of hit when I was working so there's a lot of kind of behind the scenes work with the students and things which I again really enjoyed so I knew that this was kind of the route for me so yeah that's me. Jo McNamara (04:19) Is it something that you'd always thought, I really want to be a lecturer when I grow up, or is it something that's kind of just manifested itself? Sophie Davis (04:29) Do know what, like I've always thought when I first started working and people would come in and they'd been lecturers, I was like, that's so cool. Like to be a lecturer is just like a really cool job. And I was like, I don't even know how you get into it or like what you do. But I never, didn't know that education academia for me when I started the job, it's only really because like where I worked had such a good like education programme and the job kind of came up at the right time for me that I kind of was like, let's give it a go, let's try it. And then I did really enjoy it. But I wouldn't say I went in like, I want to teach, I want to be a lecturer. But I think once I started in the role as practice educator, I was like, I could be a lecturer. And I thought that was pretty cool. Rachael Williams (05:18) It's cause she's on maternity leave. Naman Julka-Anderson (05:18) You make it sound so easy. Sophie Davis (05:20) It's definitely not. Yeah. Naman Julka-Anderson (05:24) Not that that's easy either. Sophie Davis (05:26) Yeah, true. Rachael Williams (05:26) Ha ha ha. Naman Julka-Anderson (05:28) Rachael, what about you? Rachael Williams (05:29) So I was so I also qualified from UWE but I did the undergraduate programme. and then I went to I moved to London, went to Guys and St Thomas's and then always had an interest in helping students out in placement. always had really positive feedback from them and then a role came up at London South Bank with Health Education England about supporting students when they're out in placement because that research shows that that's where they struggle the most, particularly with this program. So I applied for that role, got the job, and then basically haven't left since became a lecturer and then a senior lecturer and now the course leader. and I definitely did not see myself becoming a lecturer. I really hate public speaking and I thought, that's not for me. But actually when you're talking about something which you know inside and out, it's it it doesn't feel like like teaching and also our courses are generally a lot smaller than other professions so it's actually a very nice place to be. Yeah so it's good. Naman Julka-Anderson (06:42) And Emma, what about you? Emma-Praer Berger (06:43) So I've worked in a lot of places but my my job before this was working at support and information in Macmillan and UCLH. We've run a lot of groups for the patients and one of the groups was a head and neck group and they knew I'm a therapeutic radiographer and they wanted to know a little bit more about radiotherapy. So I put a little lecture together and that was very successful. They really enjoyed it. We had a lot of fun talking about it and going through their own experiences and how that relates to radiotherapy. And yeah, I just I thought, great. So I kind of fell into it. Jo McNamara (07:42) So it's obviously at the moment June time and there will be lots of students at the moment who will have finished their A levels, done their BTECs or working towards the end of them. For those prospective students, what advice would you give them? What could they do over the summer rather than just go on holiday and have fun? Sophie? Sophie Davis (08:04) I think really focus on thinking about what they want to do and if they want to investigate it quite a lot because you know therapeutic radiography is quite an intense degree. In my sessions with the first years I do focus a lot on mental health and taking care of themselves while going into an environment where you're looking after people at their most vulnerable. So I think it's really important to prepare and know what you're getting into. And there's so many things now on TikTok, YouTube, Instagram, know, listening to Rad Chat. There's so many things that where you can find out the information. Naman Julka-Anderson (08:46) I Jo McNamara (08:46) That was brilliant! Naman Julka-Anderson (08:46) think what you're saying is there's 500 episodes of Rad Chat they should listen to before they start. Sophie Davis (08:47) Perfect. Exactly. There you go. Jo McNamara (08:50) Hahaha Rachael Williams (08:53) I would also say that they need to visit a radiotherapy department. So that would probably be the biggest thing that I would suggest. So one radiotherapy is not very well known. We have lots of students that come to us wanting to to be on the diagnostic radiography course. And although they they do sound similar, the courses are very, very different and the end profession is very different. and we do often have students or perspective students that come to us expecting for diagnostic radiography and then they hear about radiotherapy, so like at open days and things like that, we do a lot of things with diagnostic radiography just so that we can get across to more students. So I would definitely suggest for students to go to a radiotherapy department, go to a diagnostic department and see the two professions and compare and see what you like and if it's the profession for you because it is an amazing profession but it's just not that well known and it's definitely becoming a lot more well known with all the things that Sophie just mentioned. But yeah, I think I think good advice would be to go and see if you can observe your local department. Jo McNamara (10:10) It's seeing the realities of it, isn't it? Because even if you watched a bit of Instagram from Rad Chat or a TikTok of some department showing the linear accelerator, the actual kind of feeling of walking down a radiotherapy Rachael Williams (10:24) Mm. Jo McNamara (10:25) treatment maze, turning around the corner and seeing this huge machine in front of you and thinking, my gosh, I'm going to have to use that machine. It's so different, isn't it, if you just see it on your phone or on a screen? And I think that's so important to have that visit and have the experience and also experience the pace. I always have students Rachael Williams (10:45) Yes. Jo McNamara (10:46) who start the course and they go into clinical and they're like they're running going my gosh you guys work so fast I'm not physically prepared for this job and that's something that I always say you know as part of that prospective student visit it can really help to show you the pace at which you're working out as a therapeutic radiographer. Rachael Williams (11:06) I do think that some students or prospective students imagine it to be quite a sad environment. And actually, when you're in the department, the relationships that the patients build with each other is amazing. The relationships they build with us is so lovely. and it doesn't feel like a sad environment at all. Mostly, obviously, there are always those sad cases, but generally it's actually quite a supportive environment, Sophie Davis (11:33) Yeah, and I think it's really nice that you get patient, the patient care side of it, because, you know, in diagnostic, you see your patients for kind of 10, 20 minutes, whereas for us, we see them for up to six weeks and we really do get to know them. And then we do have to do the patient care side, like the side effects, like dressing changes, those kinds of things that kind of do mix bit more of healthcare in with the science and the... physics and things. So it is a mix of both which I really liked and I think a lot of our students really like as well. And Emma is our admissions tutor so I don't know if she has any advice for those students in particular. She reads hundreds of personal statements. Emma-Praer Berger (12:17) I do, I do. NHS core values, they definitely play their part, don't they? And if you do go to visit a radiotherapy centre, you will see them in action. I think one of the things is it's radiotherapy is a lot about compassion. So it really depends. You do need to be a special type of person. To you need to give a little bit of yourself every time you do a treatment because we have such a supporting role. You know, diagnostics is very different, equally as important. But like Sophie said, you see a patient maybe once or twice and then see you later. Whereas we might be seeing patients for over a month, and you really do get to know them, you get to know about their families, their hobbies and A big part of our job is and I always say it to students and they think I'm being silly but I'm not it's just saying and you guys will know hi how are you and really meaning it and listening. So my advice would be if you can visit a centre. If you can't look up some testimonies from ex-patients. Macmillan's great for that. Have a look at all of our very cool technology. If you like technology, please do come down to radiotherapy. If you like anatomy, look that up. if you're a student listening, have a look to see what CBCT looks like. Very cool. So what you'll see Rachael Williams (13:56) Hm. Emma-Praer Berger (13:56) when you do look it up is you'll see us running around, going in and out, taking the images, setting people up, making sure everything's good, beaming on, running back out. a big part of it is pre-treatment, which Rachael was really involved in. And for me that's one of the most fun parts because radiotherapy is like putting a puzzle together. So in pre treatment you have all the puzzle pieces and then you you get to put them together and in treatment you get to see that in action. And if you do want to come to LSBU or learn more about radiotherapy, they can always give me an email. Naman Julka-Anderson (14:37) feel like I should caveat, not everyone runs down the maze. You can walk at some times. We've all said about running. I've definitely run down the maze when you've been an hour Rachael Williams (14:44) Mm-hmm. Naman Julka-Anderson (14:44) and a half late or something, but you don't have to. And same for any patients listening, you don't need to run down the maze either. You're all good. But it's interesting Rachael Williams (14:51) Definitely. Naman Julka-Anderson (14:52) you've all touched on is that people always think of oncology as really sad. If I meet someone else and say, I work in radiotherapy that must be really sad. It is, but actually it's also probably the most rewarding job I've ever had. Cause now, especially that I'm in the late effects side. I've seen patients who have been cured of their treatment 15, 20 years ago. Yes, they've got some debilitating side effects now, but then being able to manage those side effects and show them that there is kind of life afterwards and they've had nothing for 10, 15 years. That's again, where therapeutic radiography is the, in my opinion, the best placed because I can show them the radiotherapy plan and all of that, whereas other people aren't able to do that and you can help them kind of process it. But yeah, that's my kind of thing on it that there's so much more you can do apart from just running down the maze afterwards. Rachael Williams (15:34) Yeah, I think there's lots of roles now within radiotherapy, isn't it? It used to be very much you're either a pre treatment radiographer or a treatment radiographer or a planner, but now there's so many other avenues within radiotherapy like the late side effects, and just the you know the side effects Macmillan radiographers, you know, there's just so many different roles now within radiotherapy. you don't have to be a treatment radiographer forever if you don't want to, that you know there there are other Jo McNamara (16:03) I always laugh when people come for their interview and they're like, I really want to be a paediatric radiographer. And I always say, you do now, but you just wait because there are so many amazing aspects to being a therapeutic radiographer and the amount of people that go, do you know what? Treating the kids was great, but actually I really loved treating older people because, you know, they hadn't necessarily seen anyone all day. So they really wanted to chat. So it always makes me laugh when people come and start the course really energised about a very specific role and very very rarely do I ever see them qualify and them having that same end goal in place because I think it's very easy to have an idea of what you want to do in radiotherapy but it's so vast now it's brilliant that you get to do lots of different roles and specialise in lots of different areas. Sophie what challenges do you think students might anticipate Especially in that first year starting university, how can we kind of better prepare students? What do they need to do to prepare themselves? Sophie Davis (17:19) Well I think it's funny you should say about the paediatric thing because that was literally me. I was like, I want to be a paediatric radiographer and I have worked with paediatric patients but yeah, I didn't go down that avenue. Challenges that students face I think as kind of Rachael touched on placement and it being quite different to what they anticipated and also we are London based and the London sites are very busy and hectic and fast-paced and sometimes staffing can be quite low so sometimes the support is not not the support but the ability to sit down and have one-to-ones constantly and that one-to-one training that outside of London the radiographers might have time for so there's a lot of like your own kind of personal learning and I think we really try I'm one of the link tutors for one of the London sites. And I try to visit as regularly as I can and support and I'm in constant communication with the practice educators to build that kind of support system. But, you know, sometimes they then go in the outer London sites and they're like, oh, this is easier. So yeah, I think just kind of prepping for a very busy hectic placement and if you go to a department you kind of know what you're walking into whereas some students don't can't visit or don't visit and then they go out on the first and they're like this is this is too much for me and then the other thing kind of why touched on is their own mental health as well and you know I always say if you can't look after yourself then you can't look after others so we do have a lot of like debriefs and reflections and thinking about patients that have maybe affected them. And I think when I was training that wasn't kind of touched on enough and I did feel like you were kind of just left to your own devices and the radiographers can sometimes seem like they don't, it doesn't affect them. But obviously as radiographers with experience, we have built resilience and we have seen many, many patients and we have learned how to talk to them, how to communicate, how to treat them. Whereas the students are still learning. So I do think it's really important for them to keep an eye on that kind of thing. And, you know, I always say I'm there for a chat I've probably seen exactly what you've seen. So, you know, come to one of us and talk to one of us. And then, yeah, I guess like just going from a lot of students come from like school straight to university. And that is definitely a learning curve of how to study which was something we did put into the book because we wanted to help Jo McNamara (20:08) Ha ha ha Sophie Davis (20:09) students know the most effective way to study and referencing and things like that that they're just not used to. Some of them do their first assignment and maybe they get a really low grade or they fail, but we know that they're still learning to be a university student. So yeah, that's some of the challenges I think that we see. Jo McNamara (20:30) Rachael, Emma, would you add anything to challenges that you've seen students face in that first year? Rachael Williams (20:36) The only thing I would add is and it's not necessarily just linked to first year, but I think the world has kind of changed now and students have a lot of other responsibilities, like this is definitely the biggest challenge that I'm finding is that students have got care and responsibilities and and families that maybe can't speak English or they need to accompany them to hospital appointments and they have lots of younger brothers and sisters that they need to pick up and collect from school and things or their own children. and I think before, you know, the option was they just wouldn't go to university, but we've c you know, moved on from them and and now they are coming to university. But it is really hard to find that balance because ultimately they do need to be a professional and complete the amount of hours they have to complete for the course and obviously attend all the teaching and things like that. So that's the thing that I do find the most challenging is trying to find that balance because we do want to give the opportunity to everybody but we also do understand that students have lots of other things going on in their own personal lives that do affect them at university now. Jo McNamara (21:49) It's definitely not the course that you can dip in and dip out of. When I was training, I lived with a media study student who had eight hours a week. And I think our students have like 20 plus hours a week and it's, it's full on. Some days are like nine o'clock till seven o'clock and then an hour off for lunch. So it's, it's hardcore, isn't it? And there is an expectation that's maybe different to some of the other subject courses where, you know, well, you know, I had a night out last night so I'm not going to go to that 9am lecture it's just not an option for something like radiotherapy and oncology or therapeutic radiography. Emma are there any challenges that you anticipate? Emma-Praer Berger (22:29) The only thing I'd add is something I've noticed throughout all the years is a lot of the students, and I'm sure we've all done it as well, like compare themselves to other students. So and so got this for oncological management and I only got this, so I must be stupid. And it's not about that because everybody's good at something. Everybody's good at something. Like when I was a student of physics was it was not my friend, Rachael Williams (22:59) Tough. Emma-Praer Berger (23:01) but I was very good at placement. So it's not about how much you know and how high your grades are. It's just about how hard you try. Cause the rest it falls into place. Once you graduate Those first I'd say 18 months to two years really, that's a massive learning curve. You're still learning. So just you know, give your give yourselves a break. And if you want to go out for that drink, do it. But please turn up to my lecture at ten AM. It will sink in. Rachael Williams (23:41) Yeah, they're not nine a.m. anymore. Naman Julka-Anderson (23:41) At least yours is at 10am. I was going say at least it's 10am. I think 8.39 Rachael Williams (23:47) Yeah. We've learned. Naman Julka-Anderson (23:49) was usually our start. I think it's good to get across the challenges and stuff because people don't always see or understand it, especially from a healthcare... course so similar to like Jo I've had friends who were doing media or film studies and it is very different but it's the reality of what you're going into we kind of need to have that base knowledge those foundations to able to look after human beings it's a bit different to yeah writing an essay or something else but that's what we need. Rachael Williams (24:14) There's a lot of theory to be taught that goes alongside it, so you get to put it all into practice when you go out onto placement. But we need to get that theory and before you can go out there and be deemed safe. So it definitely is a really full-on course. but it will be worth it. Like graduation day is the best day, and does remind you of how much it is worth it in the end, but it can be really tough going. Naman Julka-Anderson (24:42) and then your first paycheck as well, don't forget that. That's an important one. Jo McNamara (24:44) Ha Rachael Williams (24:45) Yes, I don't know what I did with all of that money then Naman Julka-Anderson (24:48) Yeah. Jo McNamara (24:48) Ha So you obviously working in academia in the university you've seen the challenges students face you see kind of that transition onto the course and therefore decided to write a book. So Rachael do you want to start by telling us what made you write the book and how did you go about it? Rachael Williams (25:17) Okay, so I was actually contacted by Taylor and Francis who are a publishing company who basically asked me to review a book that had been written by other radiographers. So I did that and then they asked if I had any interest in writing my own book. But I was in the middle of my master's and just had my second child, so I was like, I have enough going on at the moment, I'm gonna wait a little bit. and then a year later they they came back so saying are you ready yet? and then me, Emma and Sophie were doing an an open day at university and I mentioned it and they were like, we would be up for writing a book. And I was thinking all three might be better than just doing it on my own. So I responded to them and said yeah we will we would love to do it. And then they sent us the proposal through to complete which we did quite quickly. I think we had to do that within a month. And then they they responded again quite quickly to say that it'd been accepted and then we had a year to write the book. Yeah, and that's that's basically how it began. Naman Julka-Anderson (26:33) I suppose how did you balance everything else and getting it going? Sophie Davis (26:37) I think it was quite tough because we lost a member of our team, they left, so we were very busy with work. So it was really hard to kind of fit in writing a book. But I think we were all very organised, so we kind of sat down and were like, which chapters are we going to do? When are we going to do it? We set our deadlines, know, we set meetings, things like that to kind of keep it all on track. And I don't know if Emma and Rachel are the same, but because we do have all this knowledge and we teach it all the time, I did find not the physics chapter, the other chapters fairly easy to write because it just came and obviously like at the end of the chapter, I'd go back and edit and think and... do more reading around it and things like that but it kind of was just like especially like the placement one where we were talking about placement I could just write and write and write because it was all comes from experience and the things that we teach all the time so the knowledge was there so for me the writing was probably the easiest part the editing on the other hand was a long process but no I mean we did take the whole year Rachael Williams (27:58) think we spent more time I think we spent more more time editing than than actually writing the book. Sophie Davis (28:05) Yeah, definitely, especially because the publisher wants it in such a specific format. So we had to read all these documents about how to actually then edit the book and yeah, that just took quite a long time. But yeah, I would just say our workload was quite high, so trying to juggle that and then obviously our own personal lives as well was, it was a challenge, but I did enjoy it. I did enjoy the writing. I mean, I wrote, the first chapter like on a commute on the train and I was like this is really fun. Naman Julka-Anderson (28:38) So does that mean you're do another one? Jo McNamara (28:39) I love Sophie Davis (28:41) F- Jo McNamara (28:42) that. Rachael Williams (28:42) Not yet, not yet. Sophie Davis (28:44) Maybe after maternity leave. Jo McNamara (28:47) No, that's the best time to do it. Sophie, obviously you've got loads of time whilst on maternity leave. So Sophie Davis (28:52) Obviously. Jo McNamara (28:54) Emma, who is the book designed for and what is it mainly about? Emma-Praer Berger (28:58) You're I'd say the book is designed predominantly for first year students or really for anyone who's thinking about getting into radiotherapy because it really does break it down for you. There's even sections how to hold a professional conversation, what all the banding means, which I don't know about you guys, but as a student for me anyway, I found that very confusing when I first started what all the bandings were. I recommend it. even if if you're a patient or you know someone going through radiotherapy, this can be a really handy book because it talks you through step by step the process, why we're doing things, the results of things, and what to expect. Not just what to expect with the technology and all don't move and what to wear and things like that, but also what to expect in some ways on a human level, so you know how people are going to be talking to you. You're gonna know what certain words mean. So I highly recommend it. I will just add for the challenges as well also doing a PGCE. Naman Julka-Anderson (30:22) Emma, what's the book called and where can you find it? Emma-Praer Berger (30:24) It's called the Modern Therapeutic Radiographer and you can find it at all major bookshops and even Amazon. So don't delay, just click here, and order a Rachael Williams (30:37) Yeah. Emma-Praer Berger (30:37) copy today. Naman Julka-Anderson (30:38) That is great for an advert. Thank you. I have to ask though, have you got in there how to answer the phone as a student or a professional? Emma-Praer Berger (30:48) Yes. Naman Julka-Anderson (30:48) I felt like that was the hardest thing to maybe teach on, I think maybe as a band five trying to explain you to tell them who you are, where you are, et cetera. Yeah, you still hear people just going hello, and that's it. I do hear. Emma-Praer Berger (31:03) Yeah, I think Jo McNamara (31:03) We do a simulation about it now. Rachael Williams (31:05) Do you? That's so good. Jo McNamara (31:06) Yeah, a full-blown simulation. Because a lot of people don't necessarily have a landline phone. So if you're an 18-year-old going into a clinical workplace and you've got these weird, wonderful phones that are connected to something and you can't just walk around with them, they've never seen them before. So yeah, we do a full-blown simulation. So for anyone who might be thinking, right, you know, even thinking about writing a book, what advice would you give them? Rachael Williams (31:38) Organisation does really help. If you've got lots of things going on in your personal life, you've also got a full-time job. You need to be organised, stay on track, be disciplined with it, because otherwise you're gonna get to that deadline and have so much work to do that it just feels so overwhelming, which I'm sure we've all experienced. So yeah, that is something that I've learned from being a student. So definitely be organised. Naman Julka-Anderson (32:04) When you talked about the publisher having their requirements, what did you mean by that? Is it types of font or is it actually how they want you to do the conversational style or the reading style? Just out of curiosity. Sophie Davis (32:18) It was mostly just font size, page breaks, layout. So things had to be labelled in a certain way. Your figures had to be on separate documents but then highlighted in the text. So yeah, just that little formatting bits and pieces really. They didn't really have any Rachael Williams (32:42) No. Sophie Davis (32:42) feedback on how we wrote or what we wrote. It was just the... just the formatting on the document really. I think it was really important for us to, we all felt that we wrote a book that we would have wanted when we were students. So we really tried to put things into it that would have helped us. Like, you know, a set up from start to finish, how to do a first day chat. For me, like, what does referencing mean, how to reference. There's also a little bit of on AI in there and how to use it appropriately as part of your work. We all just kind of came together and thought, what would have been useful for us? So breaking down physics into smaller parts that you actually need to know. Because we felt that some of the textbooks that are out there, there's so much information and they're great if you're writing a very specific essay. But if you just want to like touch upon your knowledge or just study a very specific part, then this was what we kind of wrote for all the legislation that's out there broke down the documents and things because there's a lot of documents that are relevant in radiotherapy but what in a summary what do they mean because they're all like 150 200 pages long so that's kind of what we were aiming for with the book. Jo McNamara (34:06) So we're coming to the end of the podcast recording and we always finish Rad Chat episodes with top tips. So do you each want to give a top tip? Rachael Williams (34:16) My top tip would be to make use of all of the resources available to you. So our students have all have a personal tutor who they can go to for academic support, pastoral support, placement support. but we can't help you unless you come and talk to us, so definitely make use of the resources available to you. Emma-Praer Berger (34:38) My top tip would be to believe in yourself. This course is really hard, not gonna lie, takes out of you. You have to go to your clinical placement on top of studying, probably going home and then doing stuff there. Maybe you've got a job, maybe you're a carer, and things can get tough and it can get on top of you. But you're doing this for a reason. Don't forget why you're doing it. And you're you're better than you think. So just believe in yourself. Sophie Davis (35:08) My top tip is just to look after yourself. Have to fill up your own cup before you can fill up somebody else's. So always just watch out for yourself and make sure you're looking after yourself so that you can look after other people. Jo McNamara (35:22) Amazing, some great top tips. Well a huge thank you again to our guests Sophie, Emma and Rachael from London South Bank University team talking about their educational year one book. So thank you all for listening to Rad Chat with myself Jo McNamara and Naman Julka-Anderson. Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (35:37) So what do you do now? Well you can use this episode as part of our free continual professional development accredited content which offers flexible learning that fits your busy schedule. Just check out the show notes for the reflective questions, links to literature and resources and link to the completed form to receive your accredited certificate. Naman Julka-Anderson (35:56) Stay up to date with the latest radiotherapy and oncology advancements by liking and following us on social media and hitting subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:06) Please do join our supportive community designed by professionals who understand the unique challenges of working within radiotherapy and oncology. Follow us across all of our social media channels and make sure to check out our website www.radchat.co.uk. Together we're actively working to improve our profession and make a lasting positive impact on cancer care. Naman Julka-Anderson (36:29) It goes without saying that we can't achieve this alone. It takes all of us working together to create real change. That's why we value every voice and every contribution. We ask that you listen and learn and spread the word, share your story with us and connect with us. Jo McNamara Rad Chat Host (36:44) And if you have liked this content, why not buy us a coffee? Go to our website and drop us some love. Thank you all for listening and take care.