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INTERVIEW: Cheryl McKissack On ‘The Black Family Who Built America,' Black Solidarity, McKissack & McKissack · The Breakfast Club

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Every day up the Breakfast Club.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: You don't finish for y'all.
• 0:06
  Speaker 3: Done morning, everybody, it's the j env just hilarious. Charlamagne,
• 0:11
  Speaker 3: the gud We are the breakfast Club.
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Lawn.
• 0:12
  Speaker 3: La Rosa is here with us as well, and we
• 0:14
  Speaker 3: got a special guest in the building.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: A new book is.
• 0:18
  Speaker 3: Out right now, The Black Family who built America. Ladies
• 0:21
  Speaker 3: and gentlemen, she's back, Cheryl McKissick, Daniel, Welcome.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Thank you, how you feeling excited? Welcome back, thank you,
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: thank you, to see you. Good to see you too.
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: You look younger. I love that. Okay, whatever he's doing,
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: I need some of that.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: So for people that didn't hear when you came up
• 0:40
  Speaker 3: here last time, I didn't read the book yet, explain
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: what your family has done for this country, The Black
• 0:47
  Speaker 3: family who built America. Break it down from your great
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: great grandfather, how he started and where it came from.
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: Moses Moses MCIs okay, So let me start with saying,
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: I am the proud CEO of a fifth generation business
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: in America. And I know Charlemagne keeps calling it seven generations.
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: He's just calling in the girl behind me, okay, and
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: her children, my.
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: Grandkids, got in trouble for today, she was one of
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: the producers.
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: Like it's.
• 1:16
  Speaker 2: Because that's what it's going to be. That's right, it's manifesting.
• 1:20
  Speaker 2: So we date back two hundred and thirty years in
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: this country, uh, starting with the first descent of our family,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: Moses mcisick the first, who came to this country in
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: seventeen ninety as a slave and was taught to trade
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: of making brick. His son was Moses mcizick the second,
• 1:39
  Speaker 2: and he was a master carpenter and he actually started
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: in North Carolina, but he was given as a gift
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: to the Cheers family in Nashville, Tennessee with spring Hill,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: and so that's when the mcisicks moved from North Carolina
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: to Tennessee. He had seven girls in this seven boys,
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: and his first son is Moses mcizick the third and
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: his brother Calvin, and they became the first black licensed
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: architects in America. Sure you don't want that one to do.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: And anyway, they were known because they traveled all through
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: the Northeast and the South. They built over six thousand churches,
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: they built thirteen fourteen historically black colleges, all the colleges,
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: all the buildings at Fisk University are pretty much designed
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: by Calvin and Moses mcizick. Maharry Medical School, Tennessee State University.
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: What's the one that tusky? And so they worked all
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: through the South. They also got an opportunity to go
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: to Haiti and work with paper Papa Doc and then
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: over to Africa. So these men were very innovative. And
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: the company was then passed down to my father, William G.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Barry McKissick. And so now we're four generations in if
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: you haven't lost count all right. And then the company
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: was passed down to my mother, who was a Fears
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: leader by herself, and then eventually I stepped in and
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: took over the company as the fifth generation.
• 3:29
  Speaker 3: You know what I love about that? And I joke
• 3:31
  Speaker 3: with my kids all the time, right, and I said,
• 3:34
  Speaker 3: you know, when I passed, I said, I'm gonna leave everything.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: I said, but there's one thing that I need And
• 3:39
  Speaker 3: I said, I want to put a family portrait of
• 3:41
  Speaker 3: me and my wife in the house. And they said,
• 3:43
  Speaker 3: well why, I said, a lot of times in our
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: family we forget about grandfather's great grandfathers and what they've
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: established and brought to us because it's like time moved so.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Fast, especially with a great grandparents.
• 3:56
  Speaker 3: So the fact that you can break down all that
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: you know, your kids will be able to break down
• 4:01
  Speaker 3: that down. Your grandkids will be able to break that down.
• 4:04
  Speaker 3: And that's something that I feel like we miss. You know,
• 4:06
  Speaker 3: when people pass, you know, we're sad and then we
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: forget about it. But these are the people that started
• 4:13
  Speaker 3: our lives, started generational wealth. We talk about all the time,
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: and I feel like, especially in black families, we should
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: have that, we should know. Like I don't know my
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: great grandfather. I don't know much about him because my
• 4:25
  Speaker 3: grandfather didn't talk about him and my parents didn't talk
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: about him. But it's one of those things. It's like
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: we move on. And I love the fact that that
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: is so built into your family that y'all keep talking
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: about it, you keep mentioning, and you keep talking about
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: the great things that your family has done.
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: You know, what you just said is so powerful. But
• 4:42
  Speaker 2: it's so easy to record what's happening in your family.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: Just do a family tree. Just start a family tree
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: with the individuals that you do know. I remember, being
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: like nine or ten years old, my mother said, look
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: at this, we just found the family tree, and I'm like,
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: I was fascinated by it. So that was the beginning
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: of me really trying to get this story out. I
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: remember taking that family tree to my father's office and
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: turning it into a real structural plan. I mean, it
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: was like as huge as a blueprint for a building
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: because it dated back to my great great grandfather. But
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: I kept losing it kept I mean I totally redid it,
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: beautiful print and everything, and can't find it. So now
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: when it's time to do the book, I'm like, well,
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: the one thing we need is a family tree because
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: people will getting lost in the shuffle of reading all
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: of this. So a couple of weeks ago, I go
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: visit my mother and I'm cleaning out one of her
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: George and bam, the original one I saw the very beginning.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: That's God. And so what I would say to everyone,
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: it's just start writing it down and have someone responsible
• 6:04
  Speaker 2: to keep it in racket. That is why we ended
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: up giving a lot of our artifacts to the African
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: American Museum on the Mall because I kept losing the
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: original license. Well you put them in your office, you know.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: Actually we store them and we make replicas of the
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: license and of the pictures and things like that. But
• 6:28
  Speaker 2: then when it comes time when you move, you're like,
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: oh my god, where is it? I told Chan my
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: pr consult I said, Chan, I am tired of losing this.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: What are we gonna do?
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: Sai?
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: We're gonna give it to the museum and they will
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: keep it forever. And so that's that's important that you know,
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: we keep up with our family legacy because everyone has one.
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: You see what all the time with you know when
• 6:52
  Speaker 3: you see white people like they do it all the time, right,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: like love them, I hate them. You know who Donald
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: Trump's father is, right? You know who Donald Trump's grandfather is, right,
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: because he talks about them all the time. You hear
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: the story about his his father that gave.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: Him a millionaire.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: You hear those stories.
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: Easy though, But a lot of times the great great
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: grandparents that you end up losing track of your father
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: and your grandparents.
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: That's easy because that's generate.
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: Trump's son and Trump's grandson will always know about the
• 7:20
  Speaker 3: grandfather that gave Donald Trump the million.
• 7:22
  Speaker 2: Dollars to start his Somebody knows them though, you know.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: What I mean?
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: But you know those stories always talk because you hear
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: about the stories that we need to talk about hours more.
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: I think it's a little different for us too, because
• 7:30
  Speaker 5: like when my grandmother, she always talks about how like
• 7:33
  Speaker 5: they weren't they didn't keep record or things because they
• 7:35
  Speaker 5: just it wasn't something that was normal in the household,
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: Like you didn't have pictures of certain people, you didn't,
• 7:39
  Speaker 5: so then that gets passed down. It's just something you
• 7:42
  Speaker 5: don't know to do.
• 7:43
  Speaker 4: Also, as black people, they just didn't care about us
• 7:45
  Speaker 4: enough to give us our records, records. They threw them out,
• 7:48
  Speaker 4: threw them out, they didn't care. But I still think
• 7:52
  Speaker 4: you can find it. It's just genealogy and getting the
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: genealogists to help you, you know, go through it.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: I mean we went back well with Nick Childs. We
• 8:01
  Speaker 2: went back to spring Hill, Tennessee, and went through records
• 8:05
  Speaker 2: of you know, the slaves that were actually working on
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: the mcisock house and the Cheers house, and there were records,
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: you know. I mean they try to erase them, but
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: they can't, I mean their graves. So I think everyone
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: can contract their family history.
• 8:23
  Speaker 4: I want to ask when I read this book and
• 8:25
  Speaker 4: I see how this empire started in the eighteen hundreds.
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: It reminds me of how resilient Black people are. We
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: can navigate our way through anything. So it gave me
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: a sense of hope, especially for the times that we're
• 8:36
  Speaker 4: in now. Has it always given you that's in surprise?
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, you know, if you think about it,
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: one in five businesses fail the first year. Sixty five
• 8:46
  Speaker 2: percent fell in ten years, and the average family business
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: only lasts twenty four years. Now, the chances for a
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: family business to pass down to a second generation is
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: like sixty percent. The chances of it passing to a
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: third is fourteen And I mean to a third is
• 9:07
  Speaker 2: fourteen percent, and to a fourth generation is three percent.
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: So here we are at five generations. And so I
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: think what we do in the book is we make
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: a case as to how the Mechusics were able to
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: do that, and it goes all the way back to slavery.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: So slavery was different in every state, you know, like
• 9:29
  Speaker 2: North Carolina was probably the most lenient of slaves at
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: the time compared to let's say Alabama and some other
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: states South Carolina, South Carolina, and really it's because they
• 9:42
  Speaker 2: didn't have as many of the huge plantations slave masters
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: have more like twelve thirteen, fourteen fifteen slaves. So the
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: slaves were more like extended family. They weren't really they
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: didn't have to be suppressed because just think about it.
• 9:58
  Speaker 2: We went to spring hilltonnes Sea, and we saw a
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: plantation where there was a family of five people, but
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: there were three hundred slaves working for them. So who
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: had the power, right, So you have to suppress the
• 10:13
  Speaker 2: three hundred people if you want to survive. And so
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: it wasn't like that in North Carolina. So we make
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: that case that you know, the leniency of slavery in
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: that state must have helped the mcisocks get to where
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: they are. And then the fact that slave masters after
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: slavery still needed the craft and services that we provided,
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: so they put us in business. And so the mckusicks
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: were put in business by their slave masters. Moses mciswick
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: the second had his first company. And so you know,
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: this was during the time where we had Tulsa, so
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: we had the Black Wall Street and this all over
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: the country happening. I mean, this did not change until
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: Birth of a Nation. And I don't know if you
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: read that in that, but that's why I was so
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: excited to launch the book last week in Martha's Vineyard
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: at the African American Film Festival, because it is the
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: complete opposite of what was happening in Hollywood one hundred
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: years ago with Birth of a Nation that depicted us
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: as ignorant, subhuman sexual predators. And you know, it's scolded
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: white people who thought maybe we should reach out. You know,
• 11:39
  Speaker 2: they're trying to figure out what to do. You were
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: a slave one day and now you're a business the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: next day. They're patronizing you. There, some people are just
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: they're good people. And so this film scolded them and
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: said to them, listen, if you patronize these businesses or
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: if you have any put your sympathy for black people,
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: you shouldn't. And then for others who hated us, it
• 12:07
  Speaker 2: gave them the license to just kill us.
• 12:09
  Speaker 4: And instilled more fear in them as to why they
• 12:12
  Speaker 4: should never give us any political powers.
• 12:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, the fear is still here today. And that
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: was the rebirth of the klu Kux Klan, you know this,
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: And because it was economically so successful, it was really
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: like the beginning of Hollywood. So Hollywood was birthed with
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: this racial movie about black people. So now to be
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: in Martha's vineyard and to go to all of those
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: black films that really tell the truth about us. You know,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: all the women aren't skinny with long blonde hair. Yeah,
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: you know what I mean. I went to see Ebony Canal,
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: which is about the problem we're having with black women pregnancy,
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: getting pregnant, delivering healthy children, and our children living past
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: a year, you know, and I was so glad to
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: see that the women really did look black. Nothing was sanitized.
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: And that's what we have to do is tell our stories.
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: And that's what our book does. It's a receipt.
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 13:26
  Speaker 4: I'm glad that you brought the TV part of it
• 13:28
  Speaker 4: up because I remember when they were going to turn
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: your story into a television show, Yeah, with paramount, and
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: I'm like, that's never probably now right, But it's because
• 13:39
  Speaker 4: when you but when you showcase these type of stories,
• 13:42
  Speaker 4: and I'm glad we were able to publish the book,
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: but when you showcase these type of stories, it provides
• 13:46
  Speaker 4: inspiration because the exact opposite of what films like.
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: The Birth of a Nation opposite, yes, yeah, because that
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: was detrimental. I mean, because of that, I believe it's
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: the root of Tulsa being and you know, Chester, Pennsylvania,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: all across the nation where black people were thriving. If
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: they had just left us alone right now, this picture
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: would be totally different, absolutely than it is today. So anyway,
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: I do have.
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: To ask, you know, when I speak to a lot
• 14:18
  Speaker 3: of black company owners and construction company owners, they say,
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: one of the hardest things is these companies don't pay
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: out when they're supposed to, right. So it's like, you know,
• 14:27
  Speaker 3: let's say they have a net thirty, net sixty, net ninety,
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: We're supposed to get paid in these times, and it's
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: like a lot of times they feel like, especially with
• 14:33
  Speaker 3: the black companies, they don't have the necessarily the money
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: to hold until they actually do get paid. Do you
• 14:40
  Speaker 3: have to deal with that a lot when it comes
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: to these these companies when you're building these things and
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: things like that, because a lot of companies actually fold
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: because they're old money and they just can't survive.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: You got to read the book. That's amazing.
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: No, that's that's definitely a problem.
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: Okay when you and it seemed like it seems like
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: it has happens to us more than others.
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: Well, yeah, they but okay, so The bottom line is,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: real estate and construction is a capital intense business, right,
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: you got to have some serious money, some serious relationship.
• 15:16
  Speaker 2: If you're building airports, schools, you know, anything in New York.
• 15:20
  Speaker 2: I mean renovating a kitchen is a million dollars in
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: New York. Okay, so you crazy, you gotta have money.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: And so it's very difficult to bridge that gap as
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: a new contractor coming in. And so what we do
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: is we create what's called an impress account. So let's
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: take JFK Terminal one, and you know, this is the
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: difference between having, you know, having black ownership at the
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: top of the food chain because we have Jim Rentals,
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: Lou Capital, and Magic Magic Johnson. But we were able
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: to do an impress account, meaning we could pay contractors
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: extremely quickly before thirty days. Because the bottom line is,
• 16:11
  Speaker 2: if your construction is faulty in any way, you're gonna
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: see it. As long as you're inspecting on a regular basis,
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: you're gonna see if there's a problem. So if a contractor,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: you know, gets paid a little bit more and they
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: still have to come back and fix something, so what
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: that's the contractors are used to tearing down the wall
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: and putting it back up as long as you catch it.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: And so that helps contractors a lot, because cash flow
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: is extremely important here because if you miss your union
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: dues by a few days, your workers don't show up
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: and the union doesn't mess around with that. They want
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: their union dues and they want the union to be paid.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: So you got to pay for that. You got to
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: get your materials to the job. So when you're a contractors,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: a lot of that money is flowing from you to
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: other sources, if it's your payroll, if it's your equipment
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: or what have you, and you're only keeping a fraction
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: of it to yourself. And so if you don't get
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: paid on time, or if you have to borrow money,
• 17:19
  Speaker 2: that's eating into your actual profit. And so yeah, that
• 17:24
  Speaker 2: is a serious problem access to capital.
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: What's the most difficult thing that you have to deal with?
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: You would say that I have to deal with company.
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's it's the same. It just
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: never changes, you know most of the time. Especially when
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: I first came to New York, I'd walk into the room.
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: I'm the only woman, definitely the only black woman. I
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: was never expected to lead anything. People don't want your opinion,
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: don't want your advice, and you know, it's kind of
• 17:55
  Speaker 2: a nuisance, like what are you doing here? And so
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: just getting over all of that and saying, you know, listen,
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: I'm going to lean into my legacy. I'm going to
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: lean into delivering on time, on budget, with excellence, and
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I'm going to let my work speak for me. And
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: that is how I built my reputation in New York
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: over the years. You know, it's an interesting thing. I'm
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: the New York Building Congress is the premier club in
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: New York City when it comes to real estate, construction
• 18:32
  Speaker 2: and design. And I have been going to their galas
• 18:36
  Speaker 2: for years. And the first gala I went to was
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: over thirty years ago. It was in the eighties, and
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: I remember being the only black woman. I remember seeing
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: five hundred white men in suits and a couple of
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: white women. And you know, I'm thinking to myself, how
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: am I ever going to make it in this city
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: if these are the people that I have to rely
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: on to get my work. I have to tell you,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: fifteen years in, my husband said to me, Cheryl, stopped
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: running up to these people and telling them who you are.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: You need to just lay back they know who you
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: are now, and I'm like, he doesn't know what he's
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: talking about. I'm never bringing him to one of these.
• 19:23
  Speaker 2: Sure Enough, the next event, I'm like, you know what,
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I'm going to try what he said. So I just
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: stood there instead of running over to people, Hey, my
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: name is Cheryl McKissick. How you doing nothing? They were
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: coming to me. And so, you know, you establish yourself
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: over time. Now here we are, thirty some years later,
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I'm interviewing right now to be chair of the Building Congress. Wow,
• 19:48
  Speaker 2: the lead of the Building Congress, which has to be
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: approved by the governor. I don't know which mayor, but
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: these things can happen. But you know, you have to constantly.
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: You have to be persistent, prepared, you have to persevere,
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: and you have to be on purpose.
• 20:13
  Speaker 5: When do you know when do you know how to, like,
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: like your husband said, like sit back, but or when
• 20:20
  Speaker 5: do you know how to like kind of like poke
• 20:22
  Speaker 5: your chest out and be like okay, but do you
• 20:23
  Speaker 5: know who I am?
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 20:24
  Speaker 5: What's that like balance for you? Because in the book
• 20:26
  Speaker 5: you talk about it was early on, but there was
• 20:27
  Speaker 5: a time where you were fighting for a certain percentage
• 20:29
  Speaker 5: of a partnership and they played with you a little
• 20:31
  Speaker 5: bit about what you could and couldn't do right, But
• 20:33
  Speaker 5: like now it's different because you have so much more
• 20:36
  Speaker 5: under your belt, Like when do you know how to
• 20:39
  Speaker 5: fold or hold them?
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: Like?
• 20:40
  Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
• 20:40
  Speaker 2: No, I know exactly what you mean. And you know
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: it's really you're gonna have to like pay attention to
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: what's happening in the room, or have someone who cares
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: about you in the room paying attention because in the beginning,
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: no one knows who you are, so you do have
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: to kiss the rings. You gotta pay homage, You gotta
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: let people, you know, get to experience who you are
• 21:03
  Speaker 2: as a person. But after a while, after you've contributed
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: and after you know people for a while, then you
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: shouldn't have to do that. You know, I'm in new
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: circles quite a bit now, but my reputation proceeds my well,
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: you know, me entering the room. So I'd like to
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: say I try and hold back and just relax and
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: talk to everyone just like they're anyone. But sometimes I
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: feel like I have to go over and introduce myself
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: and whoever is if it's an a warthrope and it
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: or if it's someone who looks like they don't want
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: to talk to you, that's exactly who. That's exactly who
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: I will run up to and talk to. But it's
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: not everybody. It's not everybody you talked to.
• 22:01
  Speaker 4: Just about some of the challenges you faced when y'all
• 22:03
  Speaker 4: were involved with the Barclay Center in Brooklyn.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: You know, that was when I look back on that experience,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: it was probably one of the best because I remember
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: sitting just watching TV and hearing Bruce Radner was going
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: to buy this team and build this arena. And I
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: knew Brooklyn was, you know, had a high percentage of
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: African Americans, and that the politicians there were strong and
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: they were going to make sure that minorities or African
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: Americans were a part of this development. And so I
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: remember just thinking, Okay, let me make a list of
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: all the black politicians, ministers, people who run organizations, and
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: I'm going out and I'm meeting all of them. And
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: in the first four or five I met Bertha Lewis,
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: and you talking about a force of nature. I mean,
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: Berta Lewis was well respected because if you didn't respect her,
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: she was gonna pickt your sight. And I mean really
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: turn it out. So she became really good friends with
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: Bruce Ratner. She had a real knack for finding compromise.
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: You know, some people are all or nothing. She found
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: great compromise and so people like Bruce Ratner respected her.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: And the next thing i know, she's flying around on
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: his plane and I'm like, okay, she's in. I know
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: I'm in. And that's how it works. You know, it's
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: important that we really work together as a race. You know,
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: all of us working together will make a difference. You know,
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: like Charlemagne you saying I will publish your book. That
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: is black solidarity. That is really working together. That is
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: when black people I can go in a room and
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: I can talk about you and you're not there, and
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I can say something positive and support you. That's what
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: we need to happen all the time. We need sponsors
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: at high levels doing that all the time. The Gym
• 24:24
  Speaker 2: Rentals and Magic Johnson's, I can't talk about them enough
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: and what they've done. We're at a billion dollars at
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: JFK Terminal one spent with MWBE firms because of their leadership,
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: their risk. It was a risk for them to own
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: this airport and putting their money where their mouth is,
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: and so we were able to help local black firms
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: and queens in Manhattan and Brooklyn. I mean, it's a
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: beautiful story I can go back to. And this is
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: in the book. And I know I'm talking about Barkley Areno,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: hadn't forgotten this is it because I could go five
• 25:04
  Speaker 2: different ways of One time I was in Martha's vineyard
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: for the launch of the book and Wendy and George
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: Van Ampsen walked in. So Wendy and George are in
• 25:16
  Speaker 2: my book because when I had my first payroll that
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I could not make, I called five black investment bankers
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: and they all gave me money. They all let me
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: borrow money from them. And they were two of them,
• 25:33
  Speaker 2: and first I got the wife first, and she said,
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna make George write you a check too, you know.
• 25:39
  Speaker 2: And that's how we have to do it. We have
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: to work together. And so Barkley Arena is that story,
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: you know, working with Lindelle McMillan. Oh god, I'm trying
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: to Roger Green, black politician back then. You know, they
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: went into Bruce rad I nerved with Bertha Lewis and
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: they said, listen, we don't care who you bring in
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: on the majority side, but you're going to work with
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: Chisic and mckissic because that's who we want, because we
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: know that they're going to pay it for it. They're
• 26:14
  Speaker 2: going to make sure our community goes to work. And
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: so Barkley Arena is like all of that coming together,
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Black solidarity coming together and making it happen.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: If you could.
• 26:28
  Speaker 4: Change one policy tomorrow, the level of the plan field
• 26:31
  Speaker 4: for black owned construction firms, What would it be and why?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: I would get rid of personal net worth goals, which
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: we've gotten rid of pretty much in the city. In
• 26:42
  Speaker 2: the is it in the city. I think it's yes.
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: In the city, there is no personal net worth goal,
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: meaning there are thresholds to be certified as an MWBE.
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: And for the state of New York, I want to
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: say it's fifteen million dollars excluding your business, excluding your home.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: Your network can't be more than that. If you want
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: to be an MWBE. If you go to Tennessee, Florida, DC,
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: that number is like a million two. So like black
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: investment bankers, they can get certified as mwbes, and so
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: you know, I feel like that would help a lot,
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: and we got rid of some of these thresholds because
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: what happens, and this is in the book too, you're
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: too small to be big and too big to be small,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: and so that really hurts firms over a period of time.
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: And then you know, I think capital is another important things,
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: not a policy, but well it is, you know, because
• 27:59
  Speaker 2: if you think about the pension funds, you know, and
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: every state has one, well they're the ones supplying all
• 28:07
  Speaker 2: of the venture capitalist money. And out of all the
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: venture capitalist money out there, you know, firms of color
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: have less than one point two percent, and so that
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: needs to change. You know, we we we need the capital.
• 28:23
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, you see all these big developers,
• 28:27
  Speaker 2: you know, developing these projects. They're not using their money,
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: they're using other people's money. But we don't have access
• 28:36
  Speaker 2: to that, and so we can't build that long term wealth.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: You know, and you've had Don here. You know, Don
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: Don talks a lot about that because that's that's his business,
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: but that should be all of our business, you know, ownership.
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: Speaking of Don, what happened with the Freedom Tower?
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: You you kind of you gloss over it in the
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: book a little bit, like what exactly happened with the
• 28:56
  Speaker 4: Freedom Tower.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: Why is it happened?
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: You don't talk about I want to drink some water.
• 29:11
  Speaker 5: I was going to ask you just mentioned with the
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: payroll situation, you had relationships that you could call. You
• 29:16
  Speaker 5: talk a lot about watching your mom navigate rooms and
• 29:18
  Speaker 5: building relationships and what that taught you today. What are
• 29:22
  Speaker 5: like some of the biggest things that you still remember
• 29:24
  Speaker 5: from what your mom taught you to help you every
• 29:26
  Speaker 5: day in business.
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: My mom taught me not to be afraid of anybody,
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: to be afraid of her, just like a black mother.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: No she's not. She's not afraid of any anybody. But
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: she taught me that. And I don't mean you know
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: when I say afraid, just don't feel like they're better
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: than you or that you have nothing to offer them.
• 29:52
  Speaker 2: Always walk up to people and say hello, introduce yourself,
• 29:58
  Speaker 2: and not worry about out what they look like. And
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: I tell a story in there about Gentry Krow, who
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: was this old, old white man who was running the
• 30:09
  Speaker 2: State of Tennessee's school district. And I had been working
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: with my mom now for over a year, and so
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: she was teaching me how to do business development and
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: how to sell our business and so I had watched
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: her for a year and so this day she said,
• 30:28
  Speaker 2: you're gonna go in and you are going to do
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: the sales pitch. So I mean, I had never done
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: that before, and I was scared to death. Like my
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: daughter back here, she's scared to death. She's like, Mommy,
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: I could never do what you do. I'm like, I
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: was just like you, just like you and mom. I
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: got into that room, I was shaking like a leaf.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: But I looked at my mother and she raised her eyebrow.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: I'm like, I'm more scared of her than I am
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: with him. And I started talking to He never lifted
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: his head. His head was down like this the whole time,
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: and I mean he had a road map in his face,
• 31:07
  Speaker 2: and I'm like, this dude is not feeling me. But anyway,
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: I was like, I'm just gonna get it out. So
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: I do the pitch and he stands up. He says,
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: come over here, young lady. So I go over to
• 31:23
  Speaker 2: him and grasp my hand. He said, I absolutely want
• 31:25
  Speaker 2: to do business with you. He didn't say anything the
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: whole time, and I looked at my mom looked at
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: me like, I told you, yeah, yeah, Because well she
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: knew him. I didn't, and so that taught me a lot,
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: you know, like you don't really know what people are
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: thinking just by the way they look, you know. Yeah,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: he was an old white man in rural South with
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: you know, racism and everything going on. But he had
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: a respect for my mother and the mcisics, and he
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: did business with us. She also taught me how to
• 32:04
  Speaker 2: solve problems. We went to Tuskegee University to open a
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: building and the president walked up to mom and said,
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: you know, Ms McKissick, two years ago when I told
• 32:19
  Speaker 2: you to design this place, I told you it gets
• 32:23
  Speaker 2: hot and we need operable windows. He said, I don't
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: have one operable window in this building. They all will
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: not open, so we're going to suffocate in here. So
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: my mom looked at him, she said, no, you're not.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: We're going to fix that. I'm going to pay to
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: have every window removed. So now he's happy. She's not
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: that happy. But we're walking through the campus and so
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: Mom sees this old building dilapidated. They're literally keeping line
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: furniture there and says, I see you living there, doctor Peyton.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: And doctor Peyton said, huh, he said, She said aren't
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: you looking for a new residence? And he was, so
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: Mom understood that he needed a problem solved, and so
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: she said, let's go in there. So she goes in
• 33:17
  Speaker 2: and she sells him on. You know, it's a stately
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: building with this beautiful coppola at the top, and she says,
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: we're gonna call it great columns. She said, you're gonna
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: live here, And so she had to pay for the windows,
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: but she also got another project all at the same time.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: And I just watched her to move through all of that,
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: you know, because she wasn't an architect, she wasn't a contractor.
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: She probably couldn't even mix concrete. But she understood how
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: to deal with the psychology of people.
• 33:52
  Speaker 5: And she took over to business during the time where
• 33:54
  Speaker 5: like women didn't have a lot of the respect that
• 33:56
  Speaker 5: men did in business.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: No, it was hard for her. Yep, she took over
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: in the eighties. The Women's Business Act came about in
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety, so that before the Women's Buildings Uh Business Act,
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: women couldn't borrow money. And so so you said, sitting
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: there and be broke, your uncle, could would you say,
• 34:18
  Speaker 2: sit down and be broke? You can't tell you. Let
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: me get find out. But just think about it. This
• 34:25
  Speaker 2: was in nineteen ninety That's when Spike Lee's first movie
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: came out. This was yesterday. We were doing the butt.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: Don't excite him. It was a dance off the dance.
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: Now what you're thinking.
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: About, I don't want to excite you.
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: Do you know who's saying that song? Yeah? Now making sure.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: I don't know if they played it with I don't know.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: I know that.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: Go ahead toward university continue, But I'm.
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: Just saying that was just yesterday in our world. You know,
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: I don't even think there was an internet in nineteen ninety, right, Okay,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: so women are just coming on the scene at that
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: point and considered business women. But listen, my mother knew
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: how to operate, She knew how to move, and I
• 35:26
  Speaker 2: learned that from her.
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: The thing I like a lot too about the black
• 35:29
  Speaker 4: family who built America. We're talking to Cheryl McKissick. Is
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: you also You've lived a life and I want you
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: to talk about that. How important is it for people
• 35:37
  Speaker 4: just to live life? Because you talk about why you
• 35:39
  Speaker 4: didn't drink, then you talk about why you started to
• 35:41
  Speaker 4: get a little drink. Then you start talking about how
• 35:43
  Speaker 4: you like you like the boys especially, you know.
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: Just speak to the importance of also living a life.
• 35:56
  Speaker 2: Yes, well yeah, our motto and our family is half fun,
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: play hard, work hard, and then play hard. And then
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: my pastor A. R. Bernard has another saying and he's like,
• 36:09
  Speaker 2: I do what I have to do now so I
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: can do what I want to do later. And that's
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: really the way you have to live life. I mean,
• 36:17
  Speaker 2: if you're going to achieve anything and really enjoy those
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: moments with your family and your friends without any cares
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: in the world, you got to take care of what
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: your business is first. And so we were able to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: live life that way. We grew up in a small
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: neighborhood in Nashville, Tennessee, and you know, we knew everyone
• 36:39
  Speaker 2: on our block and so you know, our regular day
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: was after we did our homework, we could go outside
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: and play with our friends, you know, kickball, whatever. It
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: was innocent. Okay, did you get a galley? Okay, so
• 37:01
  Speaker 2: the galley has it all. We took some of that
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: stuff out. Uh no, So it was fun, I mean.
• 37:11
  Speaker 2: And then showing up on Howard University's campus and after
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: being at an all white school from first grade all
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: the way to twelfth grade. I thought I had died
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: and gone to heaven. You know, everyone was black in
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: DC at that time. You know the U Street all
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: around uh Howard University. It's not like that now, but
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: back then, that's how it was. And so you know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: we had our own shops, our clubs, you know, La Cafe, Tiffany's,
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: the fox Trap. You know, it was amazing trap, the
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: Fox Trap. Look it up. It's still out there. It's
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: still out there.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: At the community, it was all community.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: It was all community, and every body got along. I mean,
• 38:01
  Speaker 2: you know, from the higher echelons to you know, the
• 38:06
  Speaker 2: janitors and you know what the cleaning ladies. I mean,
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: it was everyone was together. And I mean all the time.
• 38:18
  Speaker 2: We go on the weekends out, you know, to our
• 38:20
  Speaker 2: late property and the parties would just roll.
• 38:24
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and I enjoyed it because you said, you that's
• 38:26
  Speaker 4: what you grew up seeing, even in your house, like
• 38:28
  Speaker 4: that's what your parents used to do in their house,
• 38:30
  Speaker 4: and white people all would have a good.
• 38:31
  Speaker 2: Time, that's right. Yeah. And you know my mother would
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: credit herself and that's how she would help my father
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: win his work because she would tell him, bring your
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: clients home. We're gonna have a nice gourmet meal at home.
• 38:46
  Speaker 2: And then she'd have me and my twin sister, you know,
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: laying out the china.
• 38:53
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: So you learn a lot when you're doing those types
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: of things. And then we're just sitting there listening. Yeah,
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: we're hearing the transactions taking place. And so it was quick, good,
• 39:04
  Speaker 2: great life and building business relationships, building really good relationships. Yeah,
• 39:09
  Speaker 2: relationships are key.
• 39:11
  Speaker 5: I was going to say, talk speaking to relationships a
• 39:13
  Speaker 5: lot of the projects that you do. You talk so
• 39:15
  Speaker 5: much in the book about the w the MWBE and
• 39:18
  Speaker 5: bring it in other black contractors but also women contractors
• 39:21
  Speaker 5: from that organization. Can you talk about the MWBE and
• 39:25
  Speaker 5: the importance of it and what it did for you
• 39:27
  Speaker 5: in business?
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Sure? So I'm the first generation that certified as an MWBE,
• 39:36
  Speaker 2: and that was here in New York City. So I
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: had a strategy. My strategy was to figure out which
• 39:45
  Speaker 2: of the agencies had the most money for capital programs,
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: picked three and work those three. And that's what I did.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: And so the only way to get in was having
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: an MWBE certification. But that meant you had to be
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: a sub excuse me a subconsultant to a larger contractor,
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: and at the time, let me say, the mwbe goos
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: were probably like less than ten percent, but it was
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: fine because construction in New York is very complicated, and
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: so we needed I needed to make sure I really
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: understood what I was doing, how to get through the
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: building department and bull permits, how to work with the unions,
• 40:34
  Speaker 2: what's in contracts, all these things that are extremely important
• 40:39
  Speaker 2: if you're going to conduct business successfully. And so I
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: didn't mind working as a sub to say a Turner
• 40:46
  Speaker 2: construction of Skanskat Construction. All the large companies at the time,
• 40:50
  Speaker 2: so really I was selling myself to them, and not
• 40:54
  Speaker 2: necessarily to the direct client until later. But the plan
• 40:59
  Speaker 2: was once I understood how the game was played, to
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: then make sure I got to a prime role. So
• 41:07
  Speaker 2: to take those programs and use them to learn a client,
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: to learn a business, I think is great. But the
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: ultimate goal is you have to get to the point
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: where you have your own prime contracts, because that's when
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: you get to charge your own destiny. You know, that's
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: where you get to really build a strong team of
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: individuals in your company. It's hard to attract good people.
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: When you're taking that person and you're telling that one
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: or two employee of yours, I need if you go
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: to go work in someone else's shop for the next
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: two years instead of my shop. But when I'm in
• 41:52
  Speaker 2: control of the project, they're working in my shop. So
• 41:56
  Speaker 2: that's how you use those programs.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: What structural changes are still needed for minority on firms
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: like to compete.
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: On equal footing? What what structural changes are needed?
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: I keep going back to access to capital. We yeah,
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: that that has to happen. And then there's another dynamic
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: in New York that is insurance base. Because of the
• 42:24
  Speaker 2: scaffolding law here, our insurance is exponentially higher than any
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: other state in the United States, and it's it's prohibitive
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: if you're a small firm, because you know, how do
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: you pay a million dollar policy and you don't even
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: have a project yet, right, But you can't get a
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: project unless you have a policy, unless you have an
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: insurance you know, certificate, and so the insurance We've got
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: to deal with that, and it's costing all of us
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: a lot of money. And so it's not just a
• 43:07
  Speaker 2: minority women owned business problem. It's a problem across the
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: board in New York City, so that that definitely needs
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: to change.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Tell us about the merch that they asked.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Okay that y'all didn't bring us by the way, yea,
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: I know. We ran out in the vineyard. Everybody. Everybody
• 43:29
  Speaker 2: wanted a T shirt and it is it's really catchy.
• 43:35
  Speaker 2: But they ask and the back says who built this?
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: And the reason why that significant is because people walk
• 43:41
  Speaker 2: in their own church, they can walk in a hospital,
• 43:46
  Speaker 2: walk through a train station. People can say, oh, it's
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: it feels nice. I like this environment, but no one says, well,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: who built this? No one asked a question who designed this?
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: You know, is there a connection action between Terminal one
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: and j f K and LaGuardia Central Terminal, Like who
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: who built this? And so we want to bring awareness
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: to that, for people to say who built this and
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: for people to get interested in the real estate design
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: and construction profession. And of course we say we did. Mckisic.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: That's amazing, that's amazing. We always does that, though he
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: does ask like where we go? I want who built this? Please?
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: Please?
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: It's not even don't even get that he asked that
• 44:45
  Speaker 2: all the time. To go to museums, we go to
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: say he who built this? Like maybe he has a
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: you know, he likes construction. Do you think she was going.
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: Because a little bit.
• 45:08
  Speaker 2: Well, we just ordered five hundred T shirts because we're
• 45:11
  Speaker 2: going to invest Fest. I know that's right. So you
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: will all get your T shirts before we go down there, please,
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: because you ain't gonna leave with none.
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: In Atlanta. You'll be doing a fireside chat with miss
• 45:26
  Speaker 4: Basketball at invest Fest this year. It'll be on Friday Friday,
• 45:31
  Speaker 4: the twenty.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Friday twenty second, five o'clock.
• 45:37
  Speaker 3: The Black Family Who Built America.
• 45:39
  Speaker 1: We appreciate you for joining us so much.
• 45:41
  Speaker 4: The book is available everywhere you buy books right now
• 45:44
  Speaker 4: from Cheryl mckissack.
• 45:45
  Speaker 1: Daniel. You are black history, right.
• 45:47
  Speaker 4: You know we always be reading stuff in history books
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: and you know, wondering who these people were. We got living,
• 45:52
  Speaker 4: breathing black history sitting with us every day still out here.
• 45:55
  Speaker 4: So we need to celebrate it, appreciate it, learn about it,
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: and know about it. So when they ask who built it,
• 46:00
  Speaker 4: you could be like.
• 46:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, I know her, I just saw her. That's what
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: I'm telling I love it.
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: I love it. I'm an asked me. I'm gonna tell
• 46:06
  Speaker 2: my husband next time Cheryl m kissing baby. I know that,
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: I know, tell him that no time, right out of
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: some water. Yes, I wants to go and design and construction.
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: Come see me all right.
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: When you need a job, you got her, I know her.
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: She hired my uncle.
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Jesus christ Is.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Sharon mckisey, thank you so much for joining us. Pick
• 46:29
  Speaker 3: up the book The Black Family Who Built America Breakfast
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: Club good Morning.
• 46:34
  Speaker 1: Every day a week ago.
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: Click your ass up the Breakfast Club you don't finish
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: for y'all done.