Latest / Echoes & Edges / The Deep Dark Secret Was Never What Happened to Me with Sher Nyquist

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The Deep Dark Secret Was Never What Happened to Me with Sher Nyquist · Echoes & Edges

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's Patria. If you've been listening to this podcast
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: and find yourself recognizing pieces of your own story, the
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: patterns of secrecy or shame, the questions about your worth
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: or purpose, or maybe you see clearly the places that
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: feel stuck, I want you to know that you don't
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: have to navigate that alone. Courageous Pathways is a nonprofit
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: we created as a space for individuals walking through healing.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Courageous Pathways offers support for you to be in a
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: place where your story is taken seriously and where healing
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: happens through skilled, safe, compassionate care. We offer a number
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: of sessions to qualifying individuals, and what qualifies you is
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: not necessarily income information. Often the times of financial strain
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: aren't because of lack of income, and we deeply understand
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: that if you're looking for support or even just wondering
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: what your next step could be, you can learn more
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: by going to the Broken and Beautiful website and clicking
• 1:17
  Speaker 1: on the link to Courageous Pathways. And if you're looking
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: for a place where integrity and honesty lead the way
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: to put the greatest use to your donation dollars, please
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: consider supporting Courageous pathways. We double every dollar you give
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: by supporting both the recipient of care and the caregiver,
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: who are all people that have personally walked the walk
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: of healing and have turned back to extend a hand
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: to others. To you, the person thinking about checking this out,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: You are not alone in this reach out. There is
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: a way forward. Welcome back to Echoes and Edges, the
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: Broken and Beautiful Podcast. I'm Patria, the host for Echoes
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: and Edges and the owner of the Broken and Beautiful collective.
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  Speaker 1: This is a space where we explore the stories that
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  Speaker 1: shape us, the patterns that form us, and the healing
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  Speaker 1: that helps us come home to ourselves. Today's conversation is
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  Speaker 1: one I want to invite you into, slowly and with
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  Speaker 1: a great deal of care, because we're stepping into something
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  Speaker 1: really sacred, the kind of space where pain has not
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  Speaker 1: only been endured but transformed, where a life has been
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  Speaker 1: shaped not just by what was broken, but by the
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  Speaker 1: courageous work of becoming whole and healed. And you might
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  Speaker 1: be surprized about how we discuss what that means. Our
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  Speaker 1: theme today is this what happens when your calling is
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  Speaker 1: born from wounding, not in a way that glorifies pain,
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  Speaker 1: and not in a way that asks anyone to revisit
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  Speaker 1: what they're not ready to hold, but in a way
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  Speaker 1: that honors the costly and often unseen work of healing
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  Speaker 1: that can, over time, become a deep source of wisdom, presence,
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  Speaker 1: and compassion for self and others. I'm joined today by
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  Speaker 1: someone who carries that kind of wisdom. Sher Nyquist is
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  Speaker 1: a coach specializing in narrative focused trauma care, often called
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  Speaker 1: story work and EFT tapping. Her work is rooted in
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  Speaker 1: helping people gently and safely engage their stories, especially when
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  Speaker 1: words feel out of reach and so. In addition to
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  Speaker 1: narrative care and EFT tapping, which is to some degree
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  Speaker 1: work around beliefs and languaged she also offers art and
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  Speaker 1: artistic methodologies to recover a sense of self. She brings
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  Speaker 1: together a rich and thoughtful integration of practices from internal
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  Speaker 1: family systems to somatic care, which is another word for
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  Speaker 1: body care and creative work. It's shaped by her own
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  Speaker 1: lived experience navigating faith spaces, mission work, and the complexities
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  Speaker 1: of healing within systems that don't always know how to
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  Speaker 1: hold pain well, if at all. One of the most
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  Speaker 1: beautiful expressions of her work is storied art with Share,
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  Speaker 1: where even the simplest forms of creative like stick figures,
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  Speaker 1: color and texture become a safe way to approach difficult stories,
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  Speaker 1: not with force, but with what she calls lavish tenderness.
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  Speaker 1: And I think that phrase alone tells you something about
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  Speaker 1: who she is. I am so honored to have Share
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  Speaker 1: here with me. Welcome Share, So good to see you.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, great to be here. Thank you, Patria.
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  Speaker 1: Oh it's just lovely to have you back.
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: So yeah. Share.
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  Speaker 1: When you look back over your life, what do you
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  Speaker 1: notice about the connection between the places that hurt the
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  Speaker 1: most and the places where your voice carries the most authority.
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  Speaker 3: Now, for me, I would say the some of the
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  Speaker 3: places that have that really carry the most pain for
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  Speaker 3: me were the deep shame and that sense really that
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  Speaker 3: I had.
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  Speaker 2: Through so much of my life that something is wrong
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  Speaker 2: with me. I need to hide that from everybody so
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  Speaker 2: that I will have a place. So I think with
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  Speaker 2: the deep shame was so much insecurity, of course, and
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  Speaker 2: just not having a sense within myself that I offered
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  Speaker 2: anything so other than what I could do. So I
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  Speaker 2: really worked hard in relationships to try to earn my
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  Speaker 2: space or even earn goodness and care. And I think
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  Speaker 2: the other really big pain point for me was loneliness.
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  Speaker 2: So shame insecurity and loneliness were We're three big areas
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  Speaker 2: of pain that just that I have carried and struggled
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  Speaker 2: with through a lot of my life. And I think
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  Speaker 2: it's interesting because our calling is born I think out
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  Speaker 2: of our experiences, out of the things that even can
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  Speaker 2: come possibly through developmental trauma, and our life or our
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  Speaker 2: personality is actually developed because we're just trying to survive
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  Speaker 2: and trying to endure our suffering and find freedom from
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  Speaker 2: our suffering. Really so I think for me, I can
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  Speaker 2: see very distinct correlations where those areas of deep pain
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  Speaker 2: have really been instrumental in helping me learn how to
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  Speaker 2: be with people, how to be able to go into
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  Speaker 2: a room and read a room, because my sense of
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  Speaker 2: needing to show up a certain way required that I
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  Speaker 2: had to read the room so that I knew how
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  Speaker 2: to be when I was in the room. But I
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  Speaker 2: became very good at reading people's faces and nonverbals and
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  Speaker 2: even having that empathy of feeling what people were feeling
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  Speaker 2: sometimes before they even knew. So I think a lot
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  Speaker 2: of those things really shaped me and helped me become
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  Speaker 2: very adept at being with people and being able to
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  Speaker 2: offer care and goodness. And so long before I had
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  Speaker 2: gone into my healing journey, I was I remember walking
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  Speaker 2: alongside of my friends in high school and that people
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  Speaker 2: would often come to me to talk about their struggles
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  Speaker 2: or you know, help help find a solution to this
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  Speaker 2: struggle that's going on. And so I think I sensed
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  Speaker 2: that calling very early in life. And I love I
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  Speaker 2: love that, really that these are aspects of who I
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  Speaker 2: am that I love. But now I'm able to offer
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  Speaker 2: that from a very different perspective than I was when
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  Speaker 2: I was in my places of suffering.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm struck by so much of what you just said,
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  Speaker 1: and I really hope that listeners are hearing you, you know,
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  Speaker 1: because every word that you said, first of all, has
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  Speaker 1: been earned. You know, you have not jumped over grief
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  Speaker 1: to say what you're saying in any way, shape or form.
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  Speaker 1: But secondly, I'm really struck by the ways that you
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  Speaker 1: described the patterns that you've lived in, at least in
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  Speaker 1: the past. I don't know what you would say today.
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  Speaker 1: Necessarily I hear you saying you love them, but I
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  Speaker 1: could hear some ambivalence. Perhaps that's you know, maybe for
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  Speaker 1: a major portion of your life around these capacities, because
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  Speaker 1: the hypervigilance. You didn't say over functioning or over attunement,
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  Speaker 1: But I think that that's what hypervigilance is, is it's
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  Speaker 1: that over attunement, which is my It's not really a word.
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  Speaker 1: I'm just making that up for context, you know. And
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  Speaker 1: so it's I hear you saying it cost you to belong,
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  Speaker 1: to endure the shame of being you, to fill that
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  Speaker 1: void of longing for love, and the insecurities that came
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  Speaker 1: with not really having a good picture of who you
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  Speaker 1: are left you in this place.
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  Speaker 2: I think just the reality that of the hard work
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  Speaker 2: that relationships I think really have been for me throughout
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: my life. But but that was normal it I didn't
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  Speaker 2: necessarily feel like hard work because that was normal. I
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  Speaker 2: did work hard, I showed up, I brought everything I
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  Speaker 2: could to the table. And so the hyper vigilance and
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  Speaker 2: the over responsibility that was the norm for me. And
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  Speaker 2: so I think now that I'm in this space where
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  Speaker 2: I recognize that WHOA, that's that's not mine to carry,
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  Speaker 2: or I can have a boundary there, or I can
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  Speaker 2: say no, to that those are things that I did
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  Speaker 2: not feel through so much of my life.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, and that takes us to this other,
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  Speaker 1: this next question, this idea of being. There's a difference
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  Speaker 1: between being shaped by pain and being defined by pain,
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  Speaker 1: and so in in that vein with with those pain
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  Speaker 1: points and that that way, you have had to work
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  Speaker 1: so hard and obviously have come to a different place. Now,
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  Speaker 1: how have you come to understand the difference between those
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  Speaker 1: two things? Right, Because on the outside it's going to
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  Speaker 1: look very much the same to anyone that knows you.
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  Speaker 1: This is an inside job, right, this is what's happening
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  Speaker 1: inside for you. So how does that how's that defined differently?
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  Speaker 2: Being defined by our pain? Is that sense of I
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  Speaker 2: am right, I am a mess, or I am anxious,
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  Speaker 2: or it's that it's those beliefs that we have about
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  Speaker 2: our own self that start with I am I am
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  Speaker 2: not acceptable, I am not worthy of love? And so
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  Speaker 2: when that is our identity or what I define myself as,
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  Speaker 2: which I did, and we all, particularly if we've had
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  Speaker 2: childhood trauma or or probably well i'll say childhood trauma
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  Speaker 2: complex PTSD, I think that there there are and maybe
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  Speaker 2: just if.
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  Speaker 1: We're human yeah, yeah, true, good point.
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  Speaker 2: Identity right, yeah we yeah and so so I think
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  Speaker 2: being defined by my pain was when deep inside I
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  Speaker 2: knew that I was not acceptable or not worthy, and
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  Speaker 2: so I was functioning around hiding, as I said before, hiding, performing,
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  Speaker 2: and pretending that those were three big hallmarks of my life,
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  Speaker 2: which of course I didn't see or know back then.
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  Speaker 2: So being shaped by that is and and and this
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  Speaker 2: has been the journey of healing, has been allowing these
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  Speaker 2: plays of pain to come to the forefront.
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  Speaker 4: To be exposed to a few, not the whole world,
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  Speaker 4: but a few, to be held to be talked about too,
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  Speaker 4: so that I could go from being identified by those
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  Speaker 4: things and even.
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  Speaker 2: Recognizing, oftentimes having people name these things things that I
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  Speaker 2: felt were unacceptable parts of me, and having sometimes those
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  Speaker 2: things being named as gifts or aspects that I can
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  Speaker 2: offer to, you know, to relationships or to the world,
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  Speaker 2: and being surprised by that. But until we allow someone
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  Speaker 2: else to see us in these places of our shame,
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  Speaker 2: we don't know. We only can define ourselves according to
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  Speaker 2: the way that we've always believed is true. And the
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  Speaker 2: only way we can get new data is by allowing
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  Speaker 2: someone else to speak into these places. But it's excruciating
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  Speaker 2: because I worked hard my whole life for those things
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  Speaker 2: to not be seen or known. So when I could
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  Speaker 2: allow others to see and speak and offer care or
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  Speaker 2: validation in some of these very places where there was
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  Speaker 2: deep pain, I could begin then to be shaped by
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  Speaker 2: the very things that wants to find me in ways
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: that kept me stuck. But now are the areas that
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: I can say, Wow, these ways that I developed to survive.
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  Speaker 2: Who knew? They're also really helpful when I have a
• 15:54
  Speaker 2: friend who's struggling and I can be with them because
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  Speaker 2: I have a big capacity, I can hold a lot.
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  Speaker 1: There's just so much about what you're saying that is
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  Speaker 1: important in the sense of listeners who maybe are still
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  Speaker 1: trying to make sense of the wounding, the reactions maybe
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  Speaker 1: that they have to different people, or the overfunctioning in
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  Speaker 1: their life with hypervigilance. Talk a little bit about what
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  Speaker 1: brought it conscious because you mentioned, and I understand completely
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  Speaker 1: that this way of being defined by your trauma, by
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  Speaker 1: the developmental trauma, the harm wasn't something that you decided right,
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  Speaker 1: it was normal. It was how you were in the world.
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  Speaker 1: So what's happened to start bringing awareness or shedding light
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  Speaker 1: onto this imbalance of what you were giving, because you're
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  Speaker 1: describing this incredible gift to the world even as early
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  Speaker 1: as high school. I think you said you had people
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  Speaker 1: sharing heartaches because they knew you, they could trust you
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  Speaker 1: and hold it. But yet you are being defined by loneliness.
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  Speaker 1: So you know that that's a that's a sense of
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  Speaker 1: you you were not. It wasn't reciprocated, there was it
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: was a mutual. Yeah, what started bringing light to that?
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  Speaker 1: And and the second part of that is what does
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: it feel like inside? What are the differences inside in
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: terms of experience?
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  Speaker 2: I think I'll say going all the way back to
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  Speaker 2: junior high was my first awareness that, hmm, I'm seeing
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: people around me function in a way that is something
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: I've not known before. And then seeking out mentors and
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: so through really my life, I have sought out mentors
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: and and did a lot of work. I've worked really
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: hard on my struggles or my shame since I was
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: pretty young and I wanted to. I've always had this
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: big desire to be a good person. I really wanted
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: to be a good person, but I felt like I wasn't,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: and so I worked hard to I read books, and
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  Speaker 2: I went to seminars and I started therapy when I
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: was in my thirties and just trying to get free
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  Speaker 2: from the things that I really wished were not true
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: in my life. And so I think that that for
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: me in a sense, that started way back. But then
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: even though I did a lot of work and learned
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: so much, I still was stuck until really until about
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: six years ago when I started story work. And that truly,
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: and I know that we we talk about that a lot,
• 19:02
  Speaker 2: but when we can. For me, when I shared my
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: first story and was in the particularities like by that,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: what I mean is the specific details in what happened
• 19:19
  Speaker 2: in that like maybe a ten minute scene, and I
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: wrote it out and then I read it to a
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  Speaker 2: group and when I was met and again in a
• 19:35
  Speaker 2: place that felt so shameful to me that it was
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: excruciating in a way to read it, but then to
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: look up and see this was a zoom group, and
• 19:47
  Speaker 2: to see the faces on the screen looking at me
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  Speaker 2: with compassion, and then to be able to begin to
• 19:53
  Speaker 2: talk about these specific details that had happened in one
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: of my stories. And we all have many stories, and
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  Speaker 2: we might have some that are extreme trauma and we
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: might have some that don't even seem huge, maybe like
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: even the interaction of how we are with one another
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: around the dinner table. And yet when we bring forth
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: some of these things and we talk about them being
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: held and accepted and offered care right there in that space,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: it blew my mind. It opened my brain to receive
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: something that I never thought would be possible, and and
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: so the way that I felt began to change, like, oh,
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  Speaker 2: maybe this doesn't mean I am bad, And then to
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: have people really name that I wasn't the bad one
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: in the story. I was a I think it was
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  Speaker 2: a story when I was about eight or nine years old,
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  Speaker 2: and I had always felt I was the bad one.
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  Speaker 2: I had done something, and and so beginning to hear
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: those other perspectives, it was it was profoundly impacting for me.
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  Speaker 2: And then I was hooked. I've been doing story work
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  Speaker 2: ever since, and I think I probably will for the
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: rest of my life because things still come up right.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: We experience things that trigger us or cause us to
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: get disregulated, and then so now I when that happens
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: for me, I often will think about, Okay, what is
• 21:57
  Speaker 2: this connecting to from my past? Asked and to be
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: able then to talk it through with someone. It make
• 22:04
  Speaker 2: me from feeling either very anxious or going into being
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: very shut down and disconnected to where now I'm able
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: to stay present and feel what I'm feeling in my
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: body and regulate my nervous system and receive care. And
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: it's it's very significant. The difference from one to the
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: other just extremely significant for me.
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: I can hear that, and I had an image to
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: come right there of like the difference between battening down
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: the hatches, you know, pulling all resources in for the
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: earthquake or the you know, the terrible earthquake or the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: tsunami that's coming, versus being able to understand, you know,
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  Speaker 1: implicitly understand in your nervous system that you can go
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: through this and be okay, it's not final and fatal
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: in these moments. And that's a big shift that you're describing.
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: And I just so appreciate the language that you put
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: to that feeling inside. It is hard to grapple with
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: how to describe that inner experience, you know, but I
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: think you just put some incredible language. It wasn't the
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: message that you thought would come, which was your bad
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: And so just that first fora and to light shining
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: on this deep dark secret that you were holding, which
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: wasn't the trauma, It wasn't the bad things that happened
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: to you. It was that you're bad. That was the belief.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: That's the deep ar secret, right And so this first
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: look with eyes of love looking back at you immediately
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: and completely forever began rewiring your brain.
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: And I will even add that it's not that I
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: had never had eyes of love looking at me before then,
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: because I had in friendships and even in therapy. But this,
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: I think that the unique thing here was that it
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: was in the context of a story that held so
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: much shame for me that it was in that space
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: that I was receiving what I thought was impossible.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: You know, we're going to get here a little bit later,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: but I just want to drop a line, a little
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: bit of a thread here about post traumatic growth, and
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: that comes from resilience, which nobody can define well. Nobody
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: understands resilience and what makes it. We can measure avers
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: childhood experiences longitudinal study done in southern California in the
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: eighties and nineties. I believe nineteen eighties and nineties that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: measure advers childhood experiences, but nobody can get a handle
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: on why some are resilient and some aren't. So I
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: just want to drop that line. I'm sure we'll come
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: back to that more, but yes, hope and courage, you know,
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: like there is something about the dirt of the story
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: is what I call it. And I don't mean dirtiness
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: or shame. I mean the particularity, the granularity, those pieces
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: that only we know inside, and the courage that it
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: takes to say that out loud for the first time
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: to a group of people is outlandish. It's exceptionally off
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: the charts difficult, you know, and when it's done well,
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: when there's a group that can that's done their own
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: work and can hold those stories with you, then it
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: can just be profoundly life changing. So I'm really grateful
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: again for your language and description of that experience, the process.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: It's good to share it too. I think sometimes we
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: can get further away from those first experiences and forget
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: a little bit about it. But there's a lot that
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: I can feel even right now as we're talking about
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: it and just remembering some of the things that happened
• 26:46
  Speaker 2: in that you know, I think we were each person
• 26:50
  Speaker 2: had twenty or twenty five minutes. It wasn't a long
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: period of time. It was enough, though, But what happened
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: in those twenty minutes literally changed my life.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: As we close today's conversation, I'm struck by something Cher
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: said so often, the deepest wound isn't simply about what
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: happened to us. It's what we came to believe about
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: ourselves because of what happened. For Share, that belief was
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: rooted in shame, loneliness, and the sense that she somehow
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: needed to earn her place in the world. But what
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: began to change everything was not more information, more striving,
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: or more self improvement. It was being seen. It was
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: bringing a story into the light and discovering that compassion
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: was waiting there. Next time, we'll continue this conversation and
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: explore what actually happens when love interrupts shame. We'll talk
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: about why healing is not simply about understanding our stories differently,
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: but about experiencing something different, something our brains and bodies
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: can begin to trust. Until then, may you remember that
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: your story is worthy of care, and that healing often
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: begins where secrecy ends. Thank you for joining us on
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: Echoes and Edges. If this episode resonates with you, follow
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: or subscribe to Echoes and Edges on your favorite podcast platform,
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: leave a five star review, and share with a friend
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: who might need a gentle invitation to self understanding. Echoes
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: and Edges is produced and edited by Stephen R. Sanders.
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: Music promoted by Envado. Echoes and Edges is part of
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: the Vivid Livid podcast network, where bruses speak and healing
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: finds its voice. Yeah.