Latest / The Chuck ToddCast / Full Episode - Trump Is Exhibiting 25th Amendment Behavior + How To Get Money Out Of Politics For Good

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Full Episode - Trump Is Exhibiting 25th Amendment Behavior + How To Get Money Out Of Politics For Good · The Chuck ToddCast

• 0:00
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  Speaker 1: that code. Hello there, Happy Wednesday, and welcome to another
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: episode of the Chuck Podcast. So got another loaded show today.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: The guest is a gentleman named Jeff Clements. He's part
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: of an organization called American Promise. They are an organization
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: that is campaigning a state by state to get I
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  Speaker 1: think they're up to twenty three state legislatures right now
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  Speaker 1: to approve a constitutional amendment that would allow for regulation
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: of the financing of campaigns. Essentially thanks to Citizens United
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: and thanks to the belief in our judiciary system that
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  Speaker 1: money is speech that without a constitutional amendment, there really
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  Speaker 1: is no law that will successfully sort of get through
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: the courts and pass muster in order to limit the
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  Speaker 1: influence of money. I think the debate about the First
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Amendment is I think we are having a debate about
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: amplification of your right to free speech. I think we
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: all agree everybody's a right to free speech. The question
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  Speaker 1: is who's got the right to amplify who should have
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: access to amplification? How does that work? If you will,
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: And it's pretty simple. Well, we go through it quite
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: a bit. As you know. I've one of if I
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: have a pattern of guests that I will that I
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: will default to. It is those that are looking to
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: improve the infrastructure of the democracy. I've had a conversation
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: about open primaries and how do we get rid of
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: partisan primaries. In this case, I think there is agreement
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: that we've gotten sort of you know, we don't know
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: how to do anything anymore in moderation, right, we take
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: a little thing and we go to an extreme, right.
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: I mean we do this in society all the time.
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  Speaker 1: We should pay players in college sports, yes, but the
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: system we created creates all sorts of essentially absurdities in
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: the market. Should sports betting be open to all fifty
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: states instead of the state of Nevada? I think we thought, okay,
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  Speaker 1: that's fair. How we've allowed this system to populate and
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: sort of consume the lives of some people is kind
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: of out of control, right, every we go from we
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: have a system that seems to only know how to
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: regulate when we let things go to excess, right, We
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: don't seem to know how to do it that way.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: So in this case, I think we all know now
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  Speaker 1: money and politics has gotten crazy. Just to give you
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  Speaker 1: a sense of it. In twenty twelve, I had this
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  Speaker 1: idea at NBC to audit the two presidential campaigns after
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  Speaker 1: the fact, Obama and Romney. And my thesis was, this
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  Speaker 1: was the first time that both campaigns each spent a
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  Speaker 1: billion dollars. It's the first billion dollar campaign. Obama had
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  Speaker 1: a billion, Romney had kind of just under a billion,
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  Speaker 1: but if you throw in all the outside money, it
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  Speaker 1: was Basically it was the first time we had a billion.
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  Speaker 1: To put that in perspective. In two thousand, both Al
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Gore and George W. Bush were within state, within the system,
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  Speaker 1: which meant it was publicly funded general election campaigns. Bush
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: did not take public funding during his primary campaign, but
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: he did during his general election campaign. Basically, it limited
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: both sides to sixty five million dollars, so we more
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  Speaker 1: than ten x from the general election in twenty to
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  Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Well where are we today? In twenty twenty five,
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  Speaker 1: North Carolina is likely to be the first billion dollar
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  Speaker 1: Senate race. So in twenty twelve we had a billion.
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  Speaker 1: We had one campaign spending a billion dollars, so it
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: combined two billion dollars. And now we're gonna have one
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  Speaker 1: singular US Senate race. They might not even decide the
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  Speaker 1: balance of power in the United States Senate. Okay, cost
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  Speaker 1: a billion dollars. So we have gotten to absurd degrees
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: of money. And I think everybody's fine with small donors
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  Speaker 1: populating these things. You're not going to see many people
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  Speaker 1: say that that's a bad idea. It's the large donations.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: It's the anonymity of the large donations, etc. It is
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  Speaker 1: the idea that an outside group can essentially spend more
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  Speaker 1: than the two actual campaigns combined, and they can decide
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  Speaker 1: what the agenda is, not the actual voter powered campaign. So,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: you know, we have created a system that is definitely
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: in need of some sort of regulation. Congress is actually tried,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: but the courts have said they're all unconstitutional. So if
• 6:42
  Speaker 1: that's the case, then there really is only one answer
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: on the on campaign finance, and it is that is
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: that's why if you believe in term limits, well those
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: have all been struck down as unconstitutional. It was a
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: big movement in the nineties. A bunch of states past
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  Speaker 1: term limits for members of Congress. None of them pass
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  Speaker 1: constitutional muster because once you put in age required, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it's sort of that was the only there was. The
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  Speaker 1: only requirement was age in the constitution, and so they
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  Speaker 1: were not considered constitutional. If you want term limits in,
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  Speaker 1: you're going to have to put a constitutional amendment in.
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  Speaker 1: We have one constitutional amendment that has to do with
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  Speaker 1: term limits. It's term limits for the presidency. So there
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  Speaker 1: are certain things where the judiciary decided to overrule the
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  Speaker 1: legislative branch. And when it turns when it comes to
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  Speaker 1: campaign finance laws, the judiciary has written the legislation. They
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  Speaker 1: are legislating from the bench. There is nobody that passed
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  Speaker 1: a law wanting super PACs. There is nobody that passed
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  Speaker 1: the law that wanted unlimited money in politics. Those laws
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  Speaker 1: did not pass, they were interpreted after legal rulings. And
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: so I think the case to put in to put
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: this in and it's interesting and you'll hear I don't
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  Speaker 1: think this is you know, this gets you know, we
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: get to the you know where each party on this.
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  Speaker 1: But there's an argument for both conservatives and progressives that
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  Speaker 1: you want to you want to you want a fair fight,
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  Speaker 1: and the way we finance our campaigns makes it where
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  Speaker 1: there is no such thing as a as a fair fight.
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  Speaker 1: So that's the conversation. I kind of think we're we're, uh,
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  Speaker 1: we're on the cusp, as I've said before, where we're
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  Speaker 1: going to get more and more interest in doing this
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  Speaker 1: with our constitution. Can we get thirty eight states interested?
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  Speaker 1: Can you get Congress to pass a law anyway? We
• 8:36
  Speaker 1: go through all the mechanics of this as well as
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: the larger idea with Jeff. I think it's for those
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: of you concerned about that issue, I think you will
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  Speaker 1: enjoy that conversation. I'm also going to have my top
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: five list, and for those of you looking for a
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: holiday guide. In some ways, my Top five list will
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: serve a bit as a holiday guide buying guide for
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: the for the person who wants to feel extraordinarily well
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  Speaker 1: informed about the zeitgeist of the world and of America.
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  Speaker 1: I hope my Top five list will do that for you.
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  Speaker 1: But before we begin, I want to pick up on
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  Speaker 1: something that I did a you know, which is, you know,
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  Speaker 1: we're in one of those moments where we're trying to
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  Speaker 1: figure out does this latest outrage mean anything, And of
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: course the outrage being you know, Donald Trump's just horrendous
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  Speaker 1: comments about Rob Reiner and his wife and the death
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: and the murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. And
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: you know, in some ways it's not a new debate,
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  Speaker 1: right Donald Trump has put us in this position before.
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  Speaker 1: Donald Trump has embarrassed us collectively as a country, collectively,
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  Speaker 1: as a society, collectively as a human species. Right he
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  Speaker 1: just this is what he does. And I know that
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  Speaker 1: we've been at these moments before or where he says
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  Speaker 1: something so outrageous, Well this, you know, nobody can survive this, well,
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  Speaker 1: nobody other than Donald Trump. Right. He seems to be
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: teflon don on just about everything, but the reaction on
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  Speaker 1: this one he has been fascinating because it seemed as
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  Speaker 1: if it was a bridge too far for a lot
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: of people. And what he did, especially so soon after
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: the Charlie Kirk assassination, so soon after, so many on
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  Speaker 1: the right targeted anybody who said anything remotely negative about
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: Charlie Kirk, you know, in some cases, got him doxed,
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  Speaker 1: got him fired, cost them jobs, And then all of
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  Speaker 1: a sudden, we have behavior modeled by the President of
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: the United States that if anybody else behaved this way
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: in the workplace, they'd be fired. Of course, he's done
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  Speaker 1: this multiple times, right, this is not the first time
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  Speaker 1: he's done something that if any of us did it,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: it would cost us our marriage, it would cost us relationships,
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  Speaker 1: it would cost us our jobs, it would cost us
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: our cost us our you know, whatever, our whatever place
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  Speaker 1: we feel like we are in society, you know, we
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: might be shunned, we might be ostracized, and frankly, in
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: some of the behavior you know that is that is
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: it's sometimes the only the only thing we have. You'd
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: be shamed, right, We know that the real superpower of
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump is shamelessness. It's fascinating to see on the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: heels of this story because I'll tell you what, really
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: what I couldn't shake with the with the Reiner story
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: with Trump. As appalling as the first tweet was, it
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: was the second it was the second time he dealt
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: with it when he when he sort of reinforced the
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: tweet on camera. Because I actually think that this space
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: signal a larger, more alarming issue that if we take
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: seriously people's concerns about Joe Biden and his loan term,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: then we need to start taking seriously about whether he's
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: all there and how quickly you know you're going to
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: it's going to sound like I'm trolling him, but you know,
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: at what point is his behavior twenty fifth Amendment alarming
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: type of behavior? Because think about it this way, there's
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: probably two things that may have happened in between Donald
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: Trump tweeting what he did on social on his truth
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: social platform and reiterating what he said on camera about
• 12:41
  Speaker 1: Rob Reiner. One would two things happened or didn't happen, right,
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  Speaker 1: Either somebody said to him, perhaps it was the chief
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: of staff, Susie Wiles. We're going to get to her
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: in a minute, but perhaps it was said, hey, you
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: know at the Reiner stuffs, they'd be careful that didn't
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: you know, I don't know what you intended to say.
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: It didn't play well. Why don't you, you know, express
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: just straight up condolences and sort of, you know, move on,
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  Speaker 1: or nobody said anything. Either. Either potential outcome is alarming
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  Speaker 1: to me. Why is it alarming because either he was
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: told don't do it again, and he did it anyway,
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: and he is that sort of stubborn that caught up
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  Speaker 1: in his own filter bubble, that delusional, right, or nobody
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  Speaker 1: has the guts to tell him, hey, this is not good.
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: Don't do it, don't talk about it, don't say it.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: That's so either way, you have to ask yourself, oh
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: my god, what's going on here? And for me, it
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: is a different Donald Trump, you know, I know. So
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: with Joe Biden, when you know, as folks started making
• 14:03
  Speaker 1: the case asking questions about whether Biden was the same Biden,
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: you would show Biden clips doing interviews in twenty fifteen,
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: twenty fourteen, even twenty sixteen, and you would see, my god,
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: that's not even the same Joe Biden as twenty nineteen.
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: That's it was my impression. I spent a lot of
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: time at Joe Biden in twenty nineteen and twenty twenty
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: before the pandemic, and I thought he had definitely slowed down.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: It was the same Joe Biden, but an older version,
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: and he definitely seemed to lack the same energy he
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: once had. He wasn't the glad hander. He was certainly
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: a talker, but he wasn't as fast as a talker,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: you know. There was definitely And then the difference between
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden circa twenty nineteen and circa twenty twenty three
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: was even more so. But the real contrast was between
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: the Joe Biden that I covered in the Obama era
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: and the Joe Biden that I was covering for the
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: one term of his presidency. It was a big difference.
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: So in some way the questions were natural, Hey, he's
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: definitely getting older, you know, the younger Joe Biden would
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: be traveling the country. Why isn't older Joe Biden traveling?
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: And it was you know, they never wanted to say
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: it was because he can't, or because he gets tired,
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: or because they don't you know, it was always some
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: other excuse and things like that. It was definitely some
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: form of a you know, you can call it a
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: cover up, but it was definitely, you know, it was
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: definitely some form of rationalization for why there is they were.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: They were certainly concerned and sensitive to the age issue,
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: sensitive to the idea that he wasn't and they were
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: kind of always trying to push back on this idea
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that he wasn't up to the child, up to the job,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: or as energetic as he once was. With Donald Trump,
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: it's admittedly a little bit harder, right because you know,
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump has had erratic behavior for years. Right, this
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: is not new his erratic behavior. And so as the
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: title of my substack goes, how will we know? Right,
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: we had a clear idea that something had changed about
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden because his speech text had changed. His energy
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: levels were clearly different. He was you know, more spry,
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: he was walking, he was younger, you know, all those things.
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: There were physical changes that you couldn't ignore and the
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: public side, right some eight you know, that's why the
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: numbers were consistently in the seventies and eighties, you know,
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: which is why I've just sort of, you know, the
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: false narrative that somehow the media was covering this up?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: What is there to cover up? Media was the one
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: asking pole questions. Do I think there were some within
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: the White House Press score that could have been more aggressive? Absolutely?
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: But I kind of think, you know, we you know,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: it's not like the media didn't show the footage. It's
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: not like the media didn't let you know he was
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: taking the short staircase. It's not like the med you know,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: media didn't show you him shuffling around and tripping over sandbags,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: things like that with trumpets. Admittedly a little harder, right,
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: you know, when you see him behave radically, you know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: but this was a moment with the Reiner thing where
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: ten years ago, you know, Donald Trump is no more
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: or less narcissistic today than he was ten years ago.
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: But ten years ago he was still sensitive to what
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the public thought of him, and he didn't quite live
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: in his own bubble is filtered bubble that is more
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: so today than he's ever had before. He's got surrounded
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: by yes people and sycophans, who don't want I don't
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: think want to present him with the with reality if
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: reality the only show him reality when reality looks good
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: for him. They don't show him reality when it paints
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: an ugly picture for him. And so he definitely seems
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: more detached from reality today than he did when he
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: first entered the political arena. But you know, the Donald
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: Trump of ten years ago, when a celebrity died, his
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: narcissism would put him, would sort of link him up.
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: He would say, you know I was in his movies,
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: or you know I was able. You know, he's most
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: and in this case with Michelle Reiner who took the photo,
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: who was the photographer for the Art of the Deal
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: photo that Donald Trump posed for back in the eighties,
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: you know, the old Donald Trump, the guy who was
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: you know, just as shameless, but in that sort of
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I've got something to sell you shamelessness would have said, boy,
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: her career would have been nothing without me, Her career
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have happened without me. They in some ways that
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: would have been the normal. Oh boy, there he goes, putting,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: making everything about himself, which he always does, but sort
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: of within his own weird semi positively, it would at
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: least try to say, hey, they were successful, but he
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: would try to take credit for their success. This time,
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: he's in this really ugly place right where he just assumes,
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: you know, because by the way, imagine like, you know,
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: he because there's another alternative here that he said that
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: because he feared one of his supporters did this, which
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: in itself is such a warped version of thinking. Right,
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: can you imagine that he actually said it because that's
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: what he thought was going to be the case, That
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: in itself is troubling behavior. But you know, he's an
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: eighty year old man, and any of us with older
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: relatives have experienced the older relative with no filter or
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: with less filter who doesn't feel like they have to
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: round the edges of commentary anymore, that they can just well,
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: it doesn't matter, man, Grandpa's got to be grandpa, grandma's
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: got to be grandma, uncle's got to be uncle. Ann's
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: going to etcetera, etcetera. But he's president of the United States,
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: and we don't know when he blurts one of these
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: bizarre things that he says in front of a world
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: leader that actually changes the nature of our relationship with
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: said country. These are things that should concern us and
• 19:59
  Speaker 1: if you were is you know, do we have and
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: given what we just learned with the Vanity Fair story
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: that you know, it's funny with the Vanity Fair story,
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: it sort of confirms everything that I'd been hearing about
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: the role Susie Wilds plays that she is try She
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: is the sort of the reality you know, she's the
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: reality check. But she's got a light touch, right, She's
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: kind of a she sees things the way most normal
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: people see things. But she's gonna let the process play
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: out and just clean up the worst messes, you know,
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: just try to try to steer a choppy shift a
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: ship through choppy waters. And you know, they've sort of
• 20:52
  Speaker 1: given up on the small stuff, and I think they
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: would put mean tweets under the category of small stuff.
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: Having good life insurance is incredibly important. I know from
• 21:06
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• 21:09
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• 21:16
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• 21:18
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• 21:21
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• 21:25
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• 21:28
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• 21:31
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• 22:41
  Speaker 1: if you've got a growing family. To me, it's an
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: alarming moment where you have to start the question is
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: he all there all the time? Is he so consumed
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: with himself? The fact that he can't concentrate all the time?
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: I bet the fact that in the Wall Street Journal interview,
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: he's doing an interview and then he takes a call,
• 23:05
  Speaker 1: and then the Interior Secretary, Doug Bergham, wants to talk
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: with him about remodeling the DC golf courses, and you're
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: what what And you're in the middle of doing this interview.
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: I mean, I appreciate that the journal people told us
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: about that. I mean, I think it's a terrible look
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: politically that he cares more about redesigning Washington, DC's three
• 23:22
  Speaker 1: public golf courses than he does about lowering the price
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: of electricity or lowering the price of groceries, right, like
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: you could those TV ads right themselves. But that's also
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: another sign of of sort of you know, where you
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: can't keep concentration, you can't keep focus that you're sort
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: of that you're erratic. Now again, he's kind of been
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: this way all the time, So it is going to
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: be harder. While it was easier us for us to
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: see sort of the the you know, we could just
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: see boy Biden used to be this, Now he's this.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: That evolution of Trump is harder to fully appreciate because
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: he's kind of always been kind of outrageous, He'll always say,
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: but it was sort of it felt like it was
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: planned outrage in twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen, twenty seventeen. This
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: feels a lot more sort of unfiltered, unpasteurized, if you will,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: on this front. But my point is is that for
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: all of those folks on the right that we're concerned
• 24:25
  Speaker 1: about whether or not the staff was running things, whether
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: it's about Joe Biden's faculties were all there, I would
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: argue the behavior we've seen of this president, particularly over
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: the last few months, given his age, given how quickly
• 24:40
  Speaker 1: this stuff happens. I mean, look, we are not getting
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: a straight story about his current health. You don't go
• 24:50
  Speaker 1: through as many he's had I think three annual physicals
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: this year. You get my point, right, That's what they keep
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: calling him, he keeps going back. They keep calling a
• 25:00
  Speaker 1: routine you know, you know, it's not routine going back
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: to the doctor more than once a year. I mean,
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: something out of the ordinary that they're concerned about the
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: fact that, you know, he seemed to tell us that
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: the last time he took a one of these cognitive tests,
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: there was an audience. That's interesting. Why was there an audience?
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Why were there so many people observing this? What was
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: the concern? Were there more experts that were brought in?
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: It is, there is something different, and there is more
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: You can feel the sort of concern about I don't know,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: you know, I'm not going you know, there's fear of
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: ever contradicting him. There's fear of pushing back at him.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: There's fear of telling him news he doesn't want to hear.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: These were all concerned that people had on the right,
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: in particular with Joe Biden in twenty twenty three and
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. So again, if you're looking to to
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: find out who's high on the hypocrisy scale of concern,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: you know, watch the people that express the most concern
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: about Joe Biden's faculties. See pretty much everybody in primetime
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: on Fox News and ask them if this behavior were
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: at all being you know, if this were Biden a
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: second term of Biden behaving this way, I wonder what
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: the coverage would be on primetime of Fox right. But
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: in all, you know, snark aside, this unfiltered behavior is
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: alarming for either one of two things. One, he was
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: told this is not good and he still can't help himself,
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: which means he's got a self control issue, or he's
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: got a staff so afraid of telling him bad news
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: that they won't do it, and therefore he was why
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: he ended up doubling down on this in the first place.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Whatever the answer is, neither is good for the country.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Neither is good, by the way, for the Republican Party.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: And I'll ask you know, if JD. Van's and Marco
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Rubio right, they're going to have to they want to
• 27:25
  Speaker 1: succeed this presidency, one of them does. Look at how
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: unhappy the voters are with the Democratic Party, even though
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: they're voting for Democrats right now. Right, we saw this
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: in Virginia, majority had an unfavorable view of the party. Well,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: what's driven that? What what's driven that? Was this idea
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: that they all had their head in the sand when
• 27:47
  Speaker 1: it came to Biden in twenty twenty four, And there's
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: a lot of resentment among Democrats for how Democratic leaders
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: look the other way when there was an obvious, slow
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: motion train wreck taking place with the vot voters were
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: concerned about long before there was a debate between Trump
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: and Biden on June twenty seventh, twenty twenty four. The
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: voters have been pretty angry about it. You know, I
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: think if you want to know why there's such limited
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: trust in Chuck Schumer by fellow Democrats and Akeem Jeffries,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: it's the entire Democratic leaders in Washington are just seen
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: as somehow they were in kahoots and they had their
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: head in the sand when it came to the Biden thing. Well,
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: these same voters are going to have the same reaction
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: if it appears that Trump progressively gets worse, his behavior
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: gets more erratic, you have sort of more you know,
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: enablers not wanting to either say something, and you know
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: we're finding out today. Look the few sober quotes that
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: Susie Wiles did give a reporter and this case a
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: biographer and Chris Whipple. She didn't like what it looked
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: like once they went public, and there's a fear that
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: the president can't handle any sort of criticism or analytical criticism,
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: or even just sort of acknowledging when there are tough
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: moments or when there are awkward things that happen in
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: the administration, which only serves to concern me that when
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: you really need somebody to step in, are they going
• 29:36
  Speaker 1: to be willing to do it? Are they going to
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: be willing to say, hey, man, the emperor has no
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: close here. We have got to acknowledge this. We cannot
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: continue to pretend this isn't happening. I think it's a
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: legitimate concern, and I think in some ways the president's
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: own behavior, the odd things he has said about his
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: own health, and then the erratic nature of what he
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: did with Reiner and some other folks. I think this
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: is a storyline that's only going to grow. And you know,
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: he's not getting younger, This is not going to get better.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: This is only going to become more obvious. Look, we
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: don't see him travel the country, and I think there's
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: a reason for it. Right, just like with Joe Biden,
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: you got to ask yourself. Boy, Normally in a president
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: in this situation, would be traveling the country to try
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: to sell his agenda and he's not doing it. Why
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: is that right? That is what began the conversation for
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: folks who were concerned about whether Biden was up to
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: the job. Certainly not up for a second term. He
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: couldn't do the job to self to sell his agenda
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: in the first term. Well, I think we've entered that
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: same situation. And again, if you were truly concerned about
• 30:52
  Speaker 1: Biden because of his physical ailments and not due to
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: your own politics, then you should be equally alarmed by
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: the currents situation with our current president and the situation
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: that he's in. Now, all right, before I go to
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: my interview, I want to share with you a poll
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: that came to me via the search Light Institute. Now,
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: if you recall that may seem familiar to some of
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: you listeners out there, I had interviewed the founder of
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: search Light Institute, which is search Light is the hometown
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: search Light, Nevada is the hometown of Harry Reid. Adam
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: Gentilssen and former Harry Reid staffer started this up, and
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: it's basically an attempt to try to move the Democratic
• 31:36
  Speaker 1: Party in a more pragmatic direction. I wouldn't even say
• 31:40
  Speaker 1: ideologically moderate, just more of a mainstream sort of try
• 31:44
  Speaker 1: to make the party more big ten again between progressive
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: in the center a little bit and so. But they
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: did a poll on corruption, and why I find it interesting,
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: it's sort of it was sort of the question is
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: what is corrupt? What do the voters think is corrupt
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: versus sort of what the definition perhaps we in the
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: media have, you know, you know, when I say think
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: of the word corrupt, I think of like, who's ripping
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: off taxpayers? Right? But what's interesting is what the voters
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: themselves view as corrupt. And they asked a terrific question,
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: and the question was this, if you describe a politician
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: as corrupt, what are you saying about them? And then
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: they offer, please select one that comes closest to your view,
• 32:35
  Speaker 1: and the number one answer was not somebody that was
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: stealing taxpayer dollars. It was using public office for personal
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: financial gain. Right. That could mean insider trading on stocks.
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: That could mean finding out that you're buying a piece
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: of property that's about to be zone for a government
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: funded highway or something like this, that somehow your net
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: worth grows that your own relatives get to start a
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: lobbying business and use your last name to get on
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: a board, say with a company in Ukraine, or they
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: use your last name to start a meme coin and
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: you make money off of the crypto market. Jeez, I
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: don't know what two families might might have qualified for that,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: but that was the number one definition of corrupt. The
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: number two most popular definition of corrupt politician was this
• 33:28
  Speaker 1: they change rules to hold onto power instead of improving lives. Well,
• 33:32
  Speaker 1: basically that's re redistricting. They simply want to pick voters,
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: pick voters that they don't have to persuade. They pick
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: more voters that are already on their side, so they
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: don't have to do the hard work of representative democracy. Right.
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: That was the second most popular. The third most popular
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: definition was they only serve wealthy donors instead of regular people. Well,
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: I just told you about we're going to have our
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: first billion dollar center rights. Do you think that ten
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: dollars donor to a Senate race as much as one
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: hundred million dollars or even the one the ten million
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: dollar donor I've had. I've had donor sources of mine
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: who only give six figure donations okay, which for just
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: about all of us, writing a check for one hundred
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: thousand dollars or more is a lot of money. Okay,
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: you know, that's purchasing a home type of money that
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: you write that to send your kid to college type
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: of money. And they're considered they're not considered big donors anymore.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: They're just considered middle class donors. Okay. You know, a
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: lawmaker will spend a lot more time persuading that finding
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: a ten one ten million dollar donor then they will
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: looking for one thousand, one hundred thousand dollar donors because
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: that's you know, it's the law of efficiency. Right. The
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: fourth most popular is they let corporate influence overwhelm the
• 35:00
  Speaker 1: influence of voters. Arguably that's arguably the big donors. And
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: then in the single digits you have they trade favors
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: with lobbyists or special interests. They cater only to the
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: extremes that don't look out for everyone. What's interesting is
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: that none of the definitions were they steal money. Right.
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: So the point is is that what the word you know,
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: and I it is what the voters think is corrupt
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: is fascinating, and I think that it is in some ways.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: It is sort of like you're you're you're ripping off
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: the democracy, right. And what I appreciate about this about
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: where the donors are the voters are on this. Listen
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: to me, the donors the voters are on this, is
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: that they're a little more sophisticated on what's corrupt. They
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: say that, hey, that that corrupts the democracy, that gets
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: in the way of you representing the average person. And
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: this is a case where the voters are ahead of
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: the politicians, right. The politicians don't speak of corruption this way. Right.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: They speak of corruption like breaking the law, corruption thinking,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: because I think they're all afraid that if you define
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: corruption the way the public defines it, which is profiting,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: you know, having you know, essentially personal financial gain while
• 36:16
  Speaker 1: serving in office, you know, trying to just stay into office,
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: always worrying about raising money, always catering to donors. A
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: lot of politicians, if you said, do you think that's corrupt,
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, the system's corrupt, But I'm not, you know,
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: they might blame the system. They wish they wouldn't do
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: it that way. But the fact that voters think this
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is anyway just it's interesting and it also tells me
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: that voters are man the pitchforks are out, the pitchforks
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: are ready, and I don't think. I do not think
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: large corporations and the tech industry is aware of this
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: and is ready for what's coming. And I certainly think
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: leaders in both parties don't fully appreciate it. Here's another
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: question that came through that I want to share it.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: How well do you think government serves each of the
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: following groups? Okay, the very wealthy, eighty six percent said
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: they think government serves the very wealthy somewhat or very well,
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: eighty six percent. About businesses, all right, seventy four percent
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: say the government serves it serves businesses somewhat or very well.
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: How about racial and ethnic minorities, Well, guess what, Only
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: thirty six percent believe government serves them well. Fifty seven
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: percent believes they do not serve racial or ethnic minorities
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: very well at all, or not well at all completely
• 37:46
  Speaker 1: or not not well completely all. How about you personally?
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: You personally, that number is thirty is just under forty percent.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: So this isn't one of those cases where well, I
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: think Congress is, but I like my member of Congress.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: I don't think Congress looks out for the interest of
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: everybody else, but they also look out for me. Nope,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: you know they most people think they they're served slightly
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: better in government than racial and ethnic minorities, but not
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: too well. And then when you throw out ordinary people,
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: that number is that means three and four voters believe
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: ordinary people are not served well at all in some
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: form or another by government. What it tells you is
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: that there's a there's an appetite out there for government reform,
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: for democracy reform. You just have to frame it in
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: a way that just say, hey, do you want government
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: to serve you better? This is why it doesn't serve
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: you well. The system is rigged against you, which I
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: think the folks believe the system is rigged against them.
• 38:55
  Speaker 1: They just have yet to find a politician that has
• 38:58
  Speaker 1: sold them a struck sure that makes sense and that
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: they believe will work right. That I think is the
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: missing piece here, right. Bertie Sanders and a Donald Trump
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: have convinced seventy percent of America that the system's rigged
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: against them. Okay, that's that's the beginning. What there is
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: an agreement on is whether government itself is redeemable to
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: do it, and whether it's you're going to need a
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: singular individual. That's what Donald Trump believes that you can't
• 39:27
  Speaker 1: the system can't be trusted to do it, versus Bertie Sanders,
• 39:31
  Speaker 1: who said, well, you got topend the entire system, but
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: then the system can be can be can be trusted
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: on this. Here's one more question to share with you,
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: just to show you the definition of how much corruption
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: do you think there is in the Trump administration? Well,
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: among independents, forty percent said there's a great deal and
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: another twelve percent said there's a moderate amount. So fifty
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: two percent said there's at least a great deal or
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: a moderate amount of coruption in the Trump administration. And
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: if you throw in the nine percent that say a
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: small amount, right, so there's only thirty nine percent says
• 40:07
  Speaker 1: that there's no corruption at all in the Trump administration.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: All right, but guess what how much corruption do you
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: think there was in the Biden administration? Well, twenty eight
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: percent said there was a great deal, another thirteen percent
• 40:21
  Speaker 1: said there was a moderate amount, another twelve percent said
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: there was a small amount, which means you had a
• 40:26
  Speaker 1: majority that believed there was some corruption. You only had
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: forty seven percent. So you have thirty nine percent believe
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: there's no corruption in Trump administration, and you have forty
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: seven percent believing there's no corruption. This is just among independents,
• 40:39
  Speaker 1: but a majority of independents believe there's some form of
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: corruption in the Biden administration. A majority of independents say
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: there's some form of corruption in the Trump administration. Look,
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the point they're trying to say. I think the point
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: that Searchlight is trying to say is we look framing
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: Framing reform issues through the lens of corruption might get
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: people's attention better. Right, If you talk about the financing
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: of campaigns through a through the prism of corruption. If
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: you talk about the lack of regulation of big tech
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: through the prism of corruption, if you talk about entrenched
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: power in term limits through the prism of corruption, you're
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: more likely to get an audience to listen to you.
• 41:27
  Speaker 1: And most importantly, you're going to be able to talk
• 41:30
  Speaker 1: to the voters who are the most skeptical of the
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: two parties. Right now, those that are self described independence
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: are no parties. So anyway, in this moment that we're
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: living in, right, we're basically, you know, we've got back
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: to back presidencies where we're not quite sure that the
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: actual president you know, is up to the job, you know,
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: has the temperament of the faculties to do the job
• 41:55
  Speaker 1: the way it needs to be done. You also then
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: have a growing coalition of voters that are believing the
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: system itself is rotting. And this is this Look, yes,
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: it's about affordability at home, and in order to speak
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: to a certain segment of voters, you're going to have
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: to make it about that. But connecting the struggle to
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: affordability through corruption is potentially a potent force. And I
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: will just tell you this. Anytime we've had big changes
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: in election, big midterm waves, there's always been an element
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: of corruption that has helped fuel it. You know, in
• 42:35
  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four, we had members of Congress. We were
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: just two years removed from a check where members of
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: Congress could bounce checks without having a bank account. It
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: was just the weird system where only Congress could write
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: checks for money that they didn't have. It was crazy.
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: And if you want to know more about it, you know,
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: I'll go back on my time machine in a couple months.
• 42:54
  Speaker 1: We'll talk about it. But but go take a look.
• 42:58
  Speaker 1: In two thousand and six there was sort of the
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: corruption of Jack Abramoff and Tom Delay was that arguably
• 43:05
  Speaker 1: in twenty ten and in twenty fourteen, Republicans were using
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: more of sort of the fear of sort of the
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: growth of government. It was less so less so corruption
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: fueling that one. But when you see for the most
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: our corruption usually plays role, especially when you see a
• 43:23
  Speaker 1: total flip. Right ninety four, both the House that Republicans went,
• 43:26
  Speaker 1: both the House and the Senate. There was this, you know,
• 43:29
  Speaker 1: movement for term limits, movement for against entrenched power. You
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: had the check bouncing scandal, et cetera. Two thousand and
• 43:35
  Speaker 1: six also saw both houses flip. In this case it
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: was Republican a Democrat. You know, the addition of the
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: Jack Abramoff stuff and sort of the takeover of K Street.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: You know, that had a and I do think that
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: is a potential potent force here if if Democrats figure
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: out how to tap into it in a credible way. Right,
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: It's important It's important to note they think, you know,
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: independence think Trump's corrupt, more corrupt than Biden, but they
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: also majority thought the Biden administration was corrupt too, So
• 44:06
  Speaker 1: it's not the easiest road for Democrats to go down.
• 44:10
  Speaker 1: But it will make sense if you're a new candidate,
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: if you're somebody without the baggage of a previous era,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: a previous entity, or a previous administration. All right, with that,
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: let me put a pin in this botologue. Sneaking a break,
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: and when we come back, we're going to talk about
• 44:28
  Speaker 1: what would a constitutional amendment on limiting the financing of
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: campaigns look like. We'll sneak it a break and we'll
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: talk about that data side. Do you hate hangovers? We'll
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  Speaker 1: todcast for thirty percent off. So joining me now is
• 46:03
  Speaker 1: Jeff Clements. He's co founder and president of an organization
• 46:06
  Speaker 1: called American Promise Best Way. They describe themselves a cross
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: partisan organization that's advocate advocating a constitutional amendment to limit
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: the influence of money and politics. As many of you
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: guys know, I think we are. If you look at
• 46:22
  Speaker 1: our history as a country, we're at one of those
• 46:25
  Speaker 1: moments where the appetite for adding a couple of constitutional
• 46:31
  Speaker 1: amendments should be pretty big. Anytime we've had a consequential
• 46:36
  Speaker 1: era of ten or more years like the one we're
• 46:39
  Speaker 1: sort of at the tail end of here with the
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: Trump era. Just like after FDR we added the twenty
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: second Amendment during the beginning of the Industrial Revolution and
• 46:48
  Speaker 1: the controversies in and around that, and the teens. In
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: the twenties, we added direct election as senators, the income
• 46:54
  Speaker 1: tax prohibition, both positive and negative. So I think we're
• 46:59
  Speaker 1: in one of those moments, and I believe Jeff Clements
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: thinks we're in one of those moments. Of course, the
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: question is what will get priority if we are going
• 47:07
  Speaker 1: to start adding constitutional amendments. He's advocating campaign finance. He's
• 47:10
  Speaker 1: not alone there. What else would be on that docket.
• 47:13
  Speaker 1: We will dabble in that, as you know, I've been
• 47:15
  Speaker 1: dabbling in that on this feed for some time. But Jeff,
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast.
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, Chuck.
• 47:21
  Speaker 1: Good to be here. So let's start with it's I
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: know why you know, look it's pretty clear the courts
• 47:29
  Speaker 1: have unless you want to wait forty years to alter
• 47:32
  Speaker 1: the ideological makeup of the courts. And it's not even
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: ideological makeup, the sort of the this belief that corporations
• 47:40
  Speaker 1: are people too. If that is the case and money
• 47:43
  Speaker 1: is speech, well, then the only way to limit it
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: is to add a constitutional amendment. Is that the conclusion
• 47:50
  Speaker 1: you've come.
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: To absolutely, Chuck, and I come to it after you know,
• 47:55
  Speaker 3: three decades nearly in practicing law, and I believe that
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: the courts were where these kind of issues got worked out.
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: Over the course of my legal career, the Supreme Court
• 48:06
  Speaker 3: has taken dozens and dozens of cases involving campaign finance laws,
• 48:11
  Speaker 3: basically making the system we have now with a handful
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: of judges and lawyers in Washington, d C. No American
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: asked for twenty billion dollar elections, you know, six hundred
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: million dollars Senate races, foreign money coming in, all the
• 48:25
  Speaker 3: things you've talked about on this on this on the podcast.
• 48:29
  Speaker 3: So it is a court created crisis, and it is
• 48:35
  Speaker 3: not a constitutional crisis because there's something wrong with the concert.
• 48:40
  Speaker 1: You know, that's an interesting way of putting it. Let's
• 48:42
  Speaker 1: let's I want to dig into that for a couple
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: of minutes, because essentially I see where you're going. Just
• 48:49
  Speaker 1: about everything we don't like about the current way campaigns
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: are financed was due to a loophole created by illegal
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: ruling in response to a challenge to a congressional law
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: that was passed whose purpose was to actually try to
• 49:05
  Speaker 1: limit the influence of money in politics.
• 49:09
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, and you know a lot of the most recent
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: famous case, of course, is Citizens United versus Federal Election Commission.
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: But the first time the court ventured into this sort
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: of experiment and what would happen if justices decided our
• 49:26
  Speaker 3: campaign finance policy instead of the American people was in
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: nineteen seventy six with a case called Buckley versus.
• 49:32
  Speaker 1: Valais I was just going to ask about it. It's Buckley
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: Valaeo right now, Yeah, exactly. For there was Citizen United,
• 49:37
  Speaker 1: there was Buckley Valeo.
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah. In nineteen seventy six was our bi centennial that
• 49:41
  Speaker 3: we'd had the First Amendment for nearly two centuries.
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: We'd had any corruption laws.
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: For well over a century by that point limiting money
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: in politics. Not once in two hundred years had the
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: First Amendment been interpreted by the Court to mean that
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: the American people were stripped of the ability to have
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: limits on the power of wealth influence election outcomes. The
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Court made up this rule in nineteen seventy six by
• 50:04
  Speaker 3: saying that spending money is free speech. It sure has
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: something to do with free speech and First Amendment, but
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: the Court simply said, no, it is free speech. And
• 50:16
  Speaker 3: then they started on a fifty year experiment. And because
• 50:21
  Speaker 3: they're not that good at politics, nor should they be,
• 50:23
  Speaker 3: they're justices, they increasingly created new problems for themselves and
• 50:29
  Speaker 3: then had to make up a rule for that. So
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: what we're doing at American Promise is saying enough is enough.
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: This has failed. Let's bring it back to the people
• 50:37
  Speaker 3: with a constitutional amendment that says, justices, this is not
• 50:41
  Speaker 3: your job. It's the job of Congress and the state
• 50:43
  Speaker 3: legislatures to make the rules for how money influences our elections.
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: You know what would the you know, McCain fine gold
• 50:52
  Speaker 1: to me turns out to be one of the worst
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: pieces of legislation that Congress passed. It would have been
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: good legislation had you had an interpretation of money and
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: politics differently, Like would that have under in a world
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: where money isn't speech. Is McCain fine gold good legislation?
• 51:15
  Speaker 3: Well, you know an American promise. Honestly, we're sort of
• 51:19
  Speaker 3: agnostic about specific policy because we're looking at the long term,
• 51:23
  Speaker 3: and America needs to look at the long term. We've
• 51:25
  Speaker 3: got AI coming, we've got global digitalized currencies, we've got
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: all kinds of problems with trying to maintain control of
• 51:32
  Speaker 3: our political experiment here. McCain fine gold was a law
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: around two thousand and two three period when Congress was
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: in some ways trying to deal with the handcuffs that
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: the Supreme Court had put on them. So money, as
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: you've said before, Chuck, we'll find a way in politics.
• 51:53
  Speaker 2: That does not mean just like and I.
• 51:54
  Speaker 1: Always compared to the Michael Crichton's character in the original
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: Jurassic Park, where the Jeff Goldblum character says it in
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: the movie, but it's also in the book where the
• 52:05
  Speaker 1: old man claims he's going to keep the dinosaurs from
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: pro creating, and he's like, life finds a way. Well,
• 52:09
  Speaker 1: in politics, money finds a way. Yeah, no matter what.
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: Absolutely, But that doesn't mean that the American people just say, Okay,
• 52:18
  Speaker 3: I guess money decides things. I think, you know, murder
• 52:21
  Speaker 3: and mayhem find a way too in the human condition.
• 52:23
  Speaker 3: But we have law, and we have and we have
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: real clarity about who decides. And in America it's the
• 52:32
  Speaker 3: American people who decide ultimately. And so in the past
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: we have had yes, money, I'm from Boston.
• 52:40
  Speaker 1: You know.
• 52:40
  Speaker 3: Mayor Curley got re elected from his jail cell. So
• 52:43
  Speaker 3: I get this is I'm not naive about this. But
• 52:46
  Speaker 3: the American people have always had the ability and acted
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: on it to enact new rules for new situations. So
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: corporations became powerful and the Gilded Age, as you mentioned,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: and we had any corruption laws which limited corporate money
• 52:59
  Speaker 3: come and Teddy Roosevelt pushed it. The unions became powerful spenders,
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: and by nineteen forty eight we had taft haartly. So
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: the laws that the Buckley Court in nineteen seventy struck
• 53:10
  Speaker 3: down followed the catastrophic in many ways money and politics
• 53:15
  Speaker 3: scandal of the Nixon White House, leading to the resignation
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: of a president. So this is not about the final
• 53:22
  Speaker 3: one answer that will fix everything. It's about who decides
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: what is needed in order to address the problems that
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: inevitably occur with money. And corruption in the political system.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: So McCain Feingeld was an attempt to solve a new problem,
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: which is, Okay, we got soft money coming in. It's
• 53:39
  Speaker 3: going around the limits that the candidates are supposed to
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: be able to be limited to in terms of taking
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: money and some other problems like that. But they were
• 53:49
  Speaker 3: the Congress was constrained by the courts at that point
• 53:53
  Speaker 3: forty year invention of all these rules. Independent expenditures can't
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: possibly corrupt. Therefore they can't be limited giving it to
• 54:00
  Speaker 3: the parties and the candidates could corrupt, so those are
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: going to be limited. So the states and Congress have
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: been put in this straight jacket by the court's rules
• 54:09
  Speaker 3: that don't really make sense, and they certainly don't protect
• 54:11
  Speaker 3: free speech of most Americans, and so you end up
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: with messy and often bad legislation. That's why we need
• 54:17
  Speaker 3: the constitutional reset.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: Which of course is why if you're wondering why political
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: parties have no ability to purge itself of bad candidates,
• 54:26
  Speaker 1: it's because they've lost the ability to fund campaigns. They've
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: lost the ability to you know, in some ways. You know,
• 54:32
  Speaker 1: this is where McCain fein Goeld was a bad law.
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: With good intentions that ended up only making polarization worse
• 54:41
  Speaker 1: and making it even harder for the parties to have
• 54:43
  Speaker 1: any control. But let's talk about what's the wording of
• 54:47
  Speaker 1: a constant. You know, the hallmark of the Roberts Court
• 54:51
  Speaker 1: for the most part, on many issues, it's usually Roberts
• 54:55
  Speaker 1: comes down to, hey, Congress, do your job. But in
• 54:58
  Speaker 1: this case, Congress tried to do jobs and the Court
• 55:01
  Speaker 1: said no. A lot of times, this is a congressional failure.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: You know, whether it comes to you could argue it's
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: a congressional failure when it comes to some of these issues,
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: specificity about independent agencies and things like that. This is
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: not a congressional issue. This is truly an invention of
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: the judiciary, sort of creation of precedence that suddenly becomes
• 55:24
  Speaker 1: So so, what's the wording of the amendment that would
• 55:28
  Speaker 1: take this power away from the judiciary.
• 55:31
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so the flat out the wording fits on an apkin.
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: This is not complicated.
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: Most constitutional amendments. Better if it's in fact, that's three graphs.
• 55:43
  Speaker 1: Do you need it down to two?
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: We could, and this doesn't have to be the final language.
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: So what this amendment does though, that we call it
• 55:50
  Speaker 3: the for our freedom Amendment. You know, the first section
• 55:53
  Speaker 3: just reminds the court, frankly, in all of us that
• 55:55
  Speaker 3: we the people have sovereign interest in free speech and
• 55:59
  Speaker 3: federalism and the equal rights of every voter and anty
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: corruption and all the things that a lot of those
• 56:04
  Speaker 3: the Court took off the First Amendment balance. So the
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: Court says, Andy, and let's be clear, McCain feinel didn't
• 56:12
  Speaker 3: create the super PACs and everything else that was the
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court by saying that independent expenditures never corrupt and
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: making up these different kinds of rules. And so the
• 56:23
  Speaker 3: Court did that because the Court decided it was its
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: job to decide free speech questions around money and politics
• 56:30
  Speaker 3: with only one question, quid pro quo corruption or the
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: appearance thereof, as they say, and that's basically Latin for bribery.
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: Practically, you know, I'll give you this if you give
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: me that.
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: Well, the American people and the founders, frankly long understood
• 56:45
  Speaker 3: that there's a much wider constitutional balance to protecting the
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: equal rights and freedom of Americans and self government in
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: a republic. And there's things like federalism, there's things like
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: the equal rights of a citizen, it doesn't mean you
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: have equal outcomes economic, but in the political sphere, we're
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: all equal citizens. So there's things like that. Section one
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: makes that clear, and then Section two moves that who
• 57:07
  Speaker 3: decides question, Who decides these rules? It's the legislatures in
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: Congress because they're accountable to the people.
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: The judges aren't. So we the.
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: People will decide do we want limits, do we not
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: want limits, Do we want super PACs? Do we not
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: want super PACs? Those will be decisions, and federal elections
• 57:25
  Speaker 3: for Congress, in state elections for the states, just like
• 57:28
  Speaker 3: it's always been until the Court intervened. And then Section
• 57:31
  Speaker 3: three pretty interesting, it distinguished. It says Congress and the
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: States may distinguish between corporations and other artificial entities. It
• 57:40
  Speaker 3: uses the word artificial entities because we've got to be thinking, pac,
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: well it could be or what about artificial intelligence. The
• 57:47
  Speaker 3: Court's approach to free speech essentially is if it can
• 57:51
  Speaker 3: spend money and broadcast noise into the political system, it
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: has a free speech right. And I use it intentionally
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: because the Court does not distinguish between human beings or
• 58:03
  Speaker 3: any other entity. So now you have thoughts and AI
• 58:06
  Speaker 3: and who knows what in ten years, twenty years, fifty
• 58:10
  Speaker 3: years that we have to be thinking about. So this
• 58:13
  Speaker 3: doesn't solve the problem. It simply says we're allowed to
• 58:16
  Speaker 3: solve that problem.
• 58:17
  Speaker 1: So here's the question that I have of why the
• 58:22
  Speaker 1: First Amendment itself couldn't be used as an interpretation of
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: it without needing this, and it would go as follows.
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: And I didn't go to law school. I just played
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: when I play a lawyer on a podcast. So excuse
• 58:36
  Speaker 1: please mock away. But I'm guaranteed free speech. I'm not
• 58:42
  Speaker 1: guaranteed amplification of speech. And it seems as if the
• 58:48
  Speaker 1: courts have decided if you deny the ability to amplify speech,
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: you have violated free speech. And the reason I'm saying
• 58:57
  Speaker 1: the words amplification because I also wonder or if this
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: is a waiting to crack down on to allow for
• 59:04
  Speaker 1: more social media regulation in addition to campaign finance regulation.
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: You know, obviously, look I consider myself, you know, any
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: if we can do this without a constitutional amendment, the better.
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: Is there a First Amendment argument against amplification, sort of
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: like a corporation's ability to amplify its access to free
• 59:27
  Speaker 1: speech overwhelms Mine? Is that the intent of the founders.
• 59:32
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well that it is not the intent of the
• 59:35
  Speaker 3: founders that the corporations and you know, the wealthiest among
• 59:39
  Speaker 3: us should drown out everybody else. That's that's that's antithetical
• 59:44
  Speaker 3: to the First Amendment. And I want to mock your interpretation.
• 59:47
  Speaker 3: Check it's right on in my view. I agree with it.
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: I think most Americans agree with it. It's what the
• 59:54
  Speaker 3: dissenters and these many many Supreme Court cases would have said.
• 59:59
  Speaker 3: So this isn't question about whether there's anything wrong with
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 3: the First Amendment. There's nothing wrong with the First Amendment.
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 3: We are a free speech organization, where a free speech nation.
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 3: We want free speech. What we have right now in
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 3: the political system with money isn't free speech for exactly
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: the reasons you're saying. The Court need a mistake in
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 3: how it interprets the First Amendment and is laid down
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 3: this mandate, which basically means amplification until nobody can hear
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: anyone anymore except those with the biggest this ability to spend.
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: And so what our amendment does is not replace the
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 3: First Amendment. It strengthens the First Amendment. It makes it
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: much more like the one you're describing I can just
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: tell you one story, and I've been all over the
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 3: country with this amendment. There's a wonderful guy in Maine,
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 3: David Trahan runs the Sportsman's Alliance of Maine. He's on
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 3: our advisory council as well. After Susan Collins his two
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 3: hundred million dollars Senate race in twenty twenty now looks
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 3: kind of they're talking about a six hundred million dollar
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 3: race in twenty twenty six there, but all of the
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: super pac money was pouring in from outside the state.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: And these are people who spenders have no idea where
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: Maine is on a map, probably let alone caring about
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: what the people of main things. It was a battle
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: for control of the US Senate, and so this guy
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: is pretty politically savvy and a free speech absolutist as
• 1:01:23
  Speaker 3: well as a Second Amendment advocate. Is saying he said, Jeff,
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: we can't be heard and we can't hear each other
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: with all this money. And I thought that was such
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: an interesting way to think about the First Amendment issue
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: in this case, in this situation, which is we want
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: free speech and we actually we want to hear what
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 3: our fellow citizens think as well. And engage about it
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: and argue with each other and then get out and vote.
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: That's what a republican self government looks like. It does
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: not look like this. So your first amendment, David Tryan's
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: first amendment, I think it's the American first Amendment, and
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 3: that's the first amendment we'll get with our constitutional amendment
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 3: to get us there.
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 1: You brought up Maine, and I'm glad because Larry Lessek,
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: who I know you're very familiar with. And no, and
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: I think you said he's on your board, so you're familiar.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 1: He believes he has found a way to essentially use originalism,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: which is sort of the current makeup of the Conservative Court.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: Arguably three of the nine are more originalists. I think
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 1: the other three Conservatives are probably a little more nuanced
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: than being textualist originalists, but that's probably open to interpretation.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 1: But that there's actually an originalist argument that would overturn
• 1:02:48
  Speaker 1: Citizens United. Do you buy it? Oh?
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 3: I buy the argument. But if I thought that the
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 3: right argument would win the court, I think we want
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: to need this. As you say, we would get a
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 3: reinterpretation of the First Amendment as to be more aligned
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 3: with what it was supposed to mean. And that's originalism.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: I mean, can you imagine those who ratified the amendment. Remember,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: the First Amendment was an amendment too, happens to be
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 3: our first one. It wasn't didn't come out of Philadelphia's convention.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: It be came because the American people at the time
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 3: demanded the Bill of Rights and passed and ratified amendments
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 3: in this way, and the first Amendment protecting free speech.
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 3: Can you imagine in that ratification the people who just
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: won the revolution saying, yeah, this is intended to protect
• 1:03:34
  Speaker 3: the right of corporations to spend unlimited money. And the
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: wealthiest you know among us didn't even have billionaires then
• 1:03:41
  Speaker 3: to spend unlimited money, they would have been preposterous. And
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 3: originalism in constitutional interpretation means what did the words actually mean?
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 3: What did the people who put those words and voted
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: on those words and lived by those words intend and
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: mean by it? And so I think the originalism argument
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 3: is powerful. Well, we make the same case at American Promise.
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: In many ways, our Amendment is an originalist interpretation of
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 3: the First Amendment. And so you know, I welcome and
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 3: applaud very few people have worked as long in his
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 3: heart in this effort around responding to the money in
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 3: politics crisis is Larry Lessig, and I applaud him for it,
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: and I know he is also a fan of the
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: constitutional amendment approach. There's no reason you don't try all
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 3: the different leavers. So Professor Lesg's theory is is, look,
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 3: the court didn't actually invent the super pac.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Literally, it was the District Court. There was the DC
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 2: Court of Appeals.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 3: It never went to the Supreme Court in a case
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 3: called speech Now, and they said, well, the court, the
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 3: Supreme Court tells us that independent expenditures can't corrupt. Therefore
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 3: there's no reason to have a limit on packs. Because
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 3: remember Congress and the American people actually said we want
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: a five thousand dollars limit on packs. That used to
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 3: be the law, and the law fell down in that
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: case because the District Court, DC Court of Appeals said
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 3: that that doesn't make sense after citizens united because they
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: say independent expenditures can't corrupt, and then we therefore get
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 3: the super pack. When one person can put three hundred
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 3: million dollars into it or one hundred million dollars into
• 1:05:19
  Speaker 3: it would have been.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 2: Wildly illegal before this case.
• 1:05:22
  Speaker 3: So Larry's argument as, hey, the Supreme Court didn't say that,
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 3: and actually independent contributions to independent expenditures are superpacks can corrupt.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 3: You can corrupt and influence the outcome of legislation by
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 3: telling the person and heads the committee or whoever is
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: needed to say, hey, I'll put some money in the
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 3: superpack and you get the legislation. So of course it
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: can corrupt. I think most Americans would agree with that, like, yeah,
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 3: super PACs, of course they're corrupting. There's all kinds of
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: shenanigans going on with them. So that's the theory, and
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 3: Larry's the main people of Maine agreed and adopted a
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 3: loss saying contributions to super PACs are limited to five
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 3: thousand dollars. And it's been struck down by held up
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 3: by the court, federal courts. It's now Larry hopes to
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: go to the Supreme Court and have the Supreme Court say,
• 1:06:16
  Speaker 3: you know what, you're right, we never said that, and
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 3: you can limit packs. So I think the theories right.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 3: I wish the court would buy it. I'm less skeptical.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: I'm more skeptical than Larry is that they will given that.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: I hear you, except where I think Larry's case is strong.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: It's like, well, Lilly, one of two things are going
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: to happen. Either they strike down all limits for individuals,
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 1: because how is it that you can have a situation
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 1: where you can have unlimited contributions to an independent expenditure,
• 1:06:50
  Speaker 1: but you can limit contributions directly to a campaign, right,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: It's sort of it's a distinction without much of a
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: difference anymore. So I wonder if that is if actually
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: it's one of two outcomes. Either he's right and they
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 1: say you're right if you can limit contributions of individuals
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 1: to campaigns and you can limit contributions to packs, or
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 1: it goes the other way and there are no more limits.
• 1:07:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's that's that's a fair scenario assessment.
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 3: I think you know, the other case that was argued
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 3: last week in the Supreme Court n RSC versus FEC
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 3: has a similar kind of situation where there's a limit
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 3: on the party's ability to spend in coordination with candidates
• 1:07:34
  Speaker 3: that the court upheld twenty years ago but now doesn't see.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 3: The argument is it doesn't make sense given that you
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 3: can put anything you want and spend anything you want
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 3: in other vehicles so, but the problem I have two problems,
• 1:07:47
  Speaker 3: not problems, that's the wrong word. I have two reasons
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 3: why we need this constitutional amendment more than ever, even
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 3: as I'm rooting for Professor Lesseg's success. One is that
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 3: that even if the Court does begin to see that
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: there's some weird contradictions in the system that they have
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 3: built around money in politics, which believe me, it has
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 3: been messed up for a long time, and.
• 1:08:12
  Speaker 2: That doesn't seemed to bother them.
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: But maybe this time they take this and say, Okay,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 3: we're going to allow some limits on contribution to certain
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 3: kinds of super PACs that might create corruption. There's still
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: all kinds of other avenues that should not be up
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 3: to the Court to decide how to deal with it,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 3: should be up to the legislatures. But the most important reason, Chuck,
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: I'd say more than ever, is that it's not so
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 3: much the specific policies, and we can get in the
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 3: weeds around all these different vehicles and the different systems. Fundamentally,
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 3: the constitutional crisis, in my view, is not specific cases
• 1:08:48
  Speaker 3: or specific policies. It's the fundamental question of who decides
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: and another five to four or even six' three decision
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 3: out of The Supreme. Court no matter which way it comes,
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 3: out does not all of that problem we have had
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 3: for half a. Century The american people disabled from just
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 3: about what any democracy in the world.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: Does what we used to do before The.
• 1:09:10
  Speaker 3: Court gone, involved which is we make the rules around,
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 3: this not the justices In. Washington so that's what we
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 3: got to.
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 1: Fix, well this goes to you, Know i'm old enough
• 1:09:18
  Speaker 1: to remember when my friends and the right were complaining
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 1: that the judiciary was legislating in campaign finance laws Ninety
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 1: basically most of the law that governs campaigns has been judicially.
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 1: Written absolutely it. Is it has been over you, know
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 1: overturning a state, legislature overturning a congressional, law none of, them,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 1: right it has not BEEN i can't think of a
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 1: legislature that has passed a law that the court you know,
• 1:09:53
  Speaker 1: that you, KNOW i can't think of a legislature that, said,
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 1: yeah we should have unlimited, this and we should have it.
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: Unlimited LIKE i. Can't i'm trying to find the legislative
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 1: law that has done.
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 3: That can You, Yeah and you, know you're absolutely. Right
• 1:10:05
  Speaker 3: it's constant legislation by. Judges it's all Of these are
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 3: policy questions you can we could agree or disagree or argue.
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: About you, know they have made the, decision but these
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 1: are not the. Questions is not legislative intent, right because
• 1:10:18
  Speaker 1: it's not been legislative, intent.
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: Not at all exactly.
• 1:10:21
  Speaker 3: Right and so you know that's the fundamental reason we
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: need this constitutional amendment because it's getting. URGENT i, mean
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 3: The american people now call money in politics the top,
• 1:10:31
  Speaker 3: issue the top threat to our. Democracy Pew, research after
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: the twenty billion dollar election in twenty twenty, four did
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: their usual survey of The american people's. Priorities reducing money
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 3: in politics was number, one ahead of, immigration ahead of,
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 3: crime and so and there's a good reason for it
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 3: because people see it now where they. Live it's the
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: corruption is coming, home and we've got to fix.
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 1: This SO i accept the, premise and Then i'm going
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: to challenge you on it because you, know there's always
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 1: the correct answer the public. Gives and then there's how
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 1: they actually vote right during, elections and you AND i
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 1: both know the following, truism which is there's not a
• 1:11:08
  Speaker 1: single person that is won on this issue where they've
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: made it the. Issue and that is why POLITICIANS i
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: think shy away from making it a centerpiece of their,
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 1: campaign right because ultimately you're, like, yeah, OKAY i agree with,
• 1:11:23
  Speaker 1: that but what are you doing about the price of? Groceries? Right,
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 1: like it has been hard to make this. Issue you
• 1:11:31
  Speaker 1: can get voters to engage with it if they see
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 1: the corruption and it's a corruption directly impacting said candidate
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 1: and said. Campaign but BECAUSE i, LOOK i always, say
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 1: there's you, know there's eighty percent issues where there's only
• 1:11:49
  Speaker 1: where half of those folks it isn't it isn't the
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: single voting issue that they will go to the polls
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: to vote. On but they're an eighty percent, agreement rightne
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: some sort of control over you, know some sort of
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 1: legislative additional hurdles to purchase guns as falls into that,
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: category which is there's general, agreement but it's not the
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 1: people that are the most passionate about it actually vote
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 1: the other. Way why do you think it's been so
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 1: hard to make it a voting. ISSUE i. UNDERSTAND i
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 1: see the polling, too but there's you AND i both
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 1: know there's type certain issues that poll well that don't
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 1: get you to the, vote actually get people to the ballot.
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 3: Box, YEAH i think we have to unpack that a, Bit,
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 3: chuck because you, know The american people have never been
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: offered the choice we Had american promise they are, offering which,
• 1:12:36
  Speaker 3: is do you want the power back to actually make
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: the rules around money and, politics or do you want
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 3: to leave it the same way it is now leave
• 1:12:45
  Speaker 3: it to the, judges BECAUSE i think we've got to
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: give The american people more. Credit they know that for
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 3: fifty years we've lived with judge made rules that have
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 3: just moved power into the hands of the wealthiest and
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 3: the most global corporate, interests and everybody knows. THAT i
• 1:13:04
  Speaker 3: think that's not so when they, say, Hey i'm going
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 3: to run on passing, McCain finegeld vote for.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 2: Me the voter isn't.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 3: Stupid they know that the elected official is not actually
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 3: going to be able to do very much because The
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 3: Supreme court has said has basically invented this right to
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 3: spend unlimited, money no matter what you might think about.
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 3: It and SO i think that the passion is already.
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: There you've said it. YOURSELF i thought your analysis of
• 1:13:34
  Speaker 3: the twenty twelve election Of Barack, Obama schuck was really
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: astute when you said that was misreads somehow this grand
• 1:13:42
  Speaker 3: demographic coalition rather than a populist. Election he went After Mitt,
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 3: romney AND i thought that was right. On and why
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 3: Did Bernie sanders go head to head an unknown at the,
• 1:13:54
  Speaker 3: Time Bernie sanders go head to head With Hillary? Clinton
• 1:13:57
  Speaker 3: why Is Donald trump the had can over The Republican
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 3: party and as The president of The United. States the
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 3: answer to all of those, QUESTIONS i think is the,
• 1:14:05
  Speaker 3: same which The american people are, smart they get it
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 3: is that this system is completely corrupted and the normal
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 3: politics isn't going to fix, it and so they're looking for.
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: Answers and SO i, think as usual In, america that
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: comes down to a constitutional. Question and SO i think
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 3: there's passion for the constitutional question in a way that
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 3: you are not going to render up a voting passion,
• 1:14:27
  Speaker 3: around you, know should the limit be five thousand dollars
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 3: to ten thousand dollars or disclosure versus public? Finance and
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: that's that's not what this is. About we face a
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: fundamental constitutional.
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 1: Question, well let's talk about this issue OF i, MEAN
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: i feel like we're hitting there's a few different. Issues
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: people that are passionate about certain issues THAT i feel
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 1: like are where we basically the only answer is a constitutional.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: AMENDMENT i think IT'S i think campaign finance is one of.
• 1:14:54
  Speaker 1: THEM i think those my friends that worry about the.
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: DEBT i think the balanced budget amendment is another. ONE
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: i think age, limits, Right if you have age minimums
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 1: in the, constitution it means there's only one way you
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: can create age. Limits you're going to need a constitutional. Amendment.
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 1: Right if you care about the electoral college, NOW i
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: think there are ways around, that which include expanding the
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: Physical house Of, representatives which would actually fix the electoral college,
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: issues and you wouldn't need a constitution. One there are
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 1: a few places where you wouldn't need. One but we're
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 1: at a moment WHERE i think there's enough. Issues is
• 1:15:30
  Speaker 1: it worth working in concert with some of these other
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: affinity groups who are fighting for this sort of what
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: the infrastructure reforms for our democracy or our constitutional? Republic?
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: Right and if you look at our, history we basically
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: have had three periods where we've actually fixed up our,
• 1:15:53
  Speaker 1: house our constitutional, house right at the, beginning right during
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 1: and after The Civil, war and essentially during and after
• 1:16:01
  Speaker 1: The Gilded. Age and then you could say the twenty
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 1: Second amendment in the twenty Fifth. Amendment also that was,
• 1:16:08
  Speaker 1: about you, know sort of REACTION fdr And kennedy and
• 1:16:12
  Speaker 1: sort of in what happened. Incapacitation but is this a
• 1:16:17
  Speaker 1: moment that it's? Similar is this a period is it
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: worth working with others to try to force a larger
• 1:16:24
  Speaker 1: conversation about amending the constitution or is your time better
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 1: spent just galvanizing on the single issue of campaign.
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 3: Finance, WELL i think the conversation's well. Underway The american
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 3: people are talking about constitutional change all the. Time now
• 1:16:40
  Speaker 3: you left term limits, Off i'd put that it's.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: Another, one, yes where you probably it's only going to
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 1: Take you're going to need a constitutional amendment for. It. Yeah.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Yeah The Supreme court is also ruled but not allowed
• 1:16:49
  Speaker 3: to have term, Limits SO i THINK i think that
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 3: also there's a viable and energetic support for that kind
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 3: of constitutional. Amendment so you're ABSOLUTELY i could agree more
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 3: that we are in a moment In american history where
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 3: we will see fundamental change and if we if we
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 3: focus and make that constitutional change and other kinds of,
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 3: reform it'll be a very positive. Thing but at the same,
• 1:17:15
  Speaker 3: time if we, don't there's, dangers AND i think that's.
• 1:17:18
  Speaker 2: What you saw if you look at all those periods you.
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: Mentioned And i'd ad you, know we did four, amendments
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 3: four constitutional amendments between nineteen sixty one and nineteen seventy,
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 3: one lowering the voting, AGE dc got some representation the poll.
• 1:17:31
  Speaker 3: Tax those are pretty big. Deals and if you look
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 3: at all those, periods it was very much like our
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: own political. Assassinations division the wheels coming off The american,
• 1:17:43
  Speaker 3: democracy AND i think people realize like that we can't
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 3: go on with the status quo constitutional structures we've, had
• 1:17:53
  Speaker 3: and there's fundamental change AND i think that's what we're
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 3: going to see. Now that doesn't mean, necessarily, though that
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 3: there's some grand constitutional. COALITION i think maybe after The Civil,
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 3: war The Civil war, amendments The Republican party at the
• 1:18:07
  Speaker 3: time was the grand coalition around constitutional. Amendments we need
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 3: to once and for all overturn the Dread scott decision
• 1:18:15
  Speaker 3: and slavery In, america enfranchise All americans regardless of. RACE
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 3: i think that was the. Exception the other, ones, THOUGH
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 3: i think amendments happen in a dynamic systematictic process where
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 3: there's opportunity because the old way is. Crumbling the old
• 1:18:32
  Speaker 3: stabilities aren't there, anymore and you can actually put together
• 1:18:36
  Speaker 3: new coalitions and new votes to actually get a two
• 1:18:39
  Speaker 3: thirds vote In congress and ratification in three quarters of the,
• 1:18:43
  Speaker 3: states which remained very. Different SO i don't think you
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 3: need to march and lockstep and have different arguments that.
• 1:18:49
  Speaker 3: Might you, know it isn't necessarily people will vote for
• 1:18:53
  Speaker 3: our amendment who will be against electoral college reformer people
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: will like term limits but not the balance you name.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 2: It that's.
• 1:19:01
  Speaker 3: OKAY i think it's a much more dynamic. Process if
• 1:19:04
  Speaker 3: we Every american go for whatever it is that you
• 1:19:08
  Speaker 3: want to, see we'll be just. Fine AND i would
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 3: predict in the decade we'll have three or four amendments
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 3: again like previous. Times but if we have a try
• 1:19:17
  Speaker 3: to make it with some grand coalition coming out Of
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 3: washington Telling americans.
• 1:19:21
  Speaker 2: What to, do it goes.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 3: Nowhere we go to the, states we go to the,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 3: people AND i think that's what smart amendments. Do so
• 1:19:28
  Speaker 3: we have twenty three states already on board the for
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: Our Freedom amendment At american. Promise that's why you get,
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 3: ratification that's why you get the vote In, congress because
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 3: we've actually shown that.
• 1:19:40
  Speaker 2: States as widely disparate As alaska.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 3: And, utah and you, Know wyoming And montana Versus, California New, York.
• 1:19:49
  Speaker 3: Massachusetts they're all doing, this they're all moving, forward and
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 3: the politics of it are. Changing and so whether you're
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 3: A republican Or democrat and you actually want to vote
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 3: for our, amendment that will happen some of the other amendments.
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 1: TOO i, think what's Your so what's it's? Interesting, look
• 1:20:04
  Speaker 1: the four states you just talked about that Are republican,
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 1: leaning don't surprise. Me right. There there there's a there's
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 1: a history In montana of sort of skepticism of corporations
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: and corporate. Money that's a very little more bipartisan concern
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 1: about it than you see in most. States, utah, right
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 1: it's civic, Mindedness, alaska Even. Wyoming the small states sort
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 1: of get. It what's your biggest? Hurdle, right you need
• 1:20:32
  Speaker 1: thirty eight? States you, know it means you're going to
• 1:20:36
  Speaker 1: need you, KNOW i guess in theory you could do
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 1: this without the Deep south red, states but make the
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 1: case to The alabama legislature of why they should be
• 1:20:44
  Speaker 1: for this.
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: Amendment, OH i think.
• 1:20:46
  Speaker 3: We can win anywhere so and you, Know, ALABAMA i,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 3: HOPE i hope we'll come on board. Soon but you,
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 3: know we passed The Oklahoma house. Unanimously we still got
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 3: to go through The, senate but the vote In oklahoma
• 1:20:56
  Speaker 3: was unanimous in The.
• 1:20:58
  Speaker 2: House we've passed The.
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 3: Senate AND i, mean so this lead sponsor In, Texas
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 3: Senator Angela. Paxton you don't get to the right of
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 3: The paxtons In. Texas and and you know she's the.
• 1:21:08
  Speaker 1: Least It's Ken paxton soon to be ex, wife who's
• 1:21:11
  Speaker 1: the chief sponsor for. You you know this is this
• 1:21:13
  Speaker 1: is the trick about them, fellows, Right, Yeah.
• 1:21:15
  Speaker 3: Yeah the thing about amendments is especially if you do
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 3: it in a way that is respectful and actually like
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 3: we're service. Minded we serve The american people to get done.
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 3: With we want to get. Done everybody wants to get,
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 3: done but we want to get it done for different.
• 1:21:29
  Speaker 3: Reasons so we just let people do it for their own.
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 3: Reason and you start to put up these these these.
• 1:21:35
  Speaker 3: Wins so the question is why Would alabama want to do?
• 1:21:38
  Speaker 3: This not why WOULD i want to Tell alabama to do?
• 1:21:40
  Speaker 1: This In alabama's best, Interesting.
• 1:21:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah so the question for The alabama legislature is do
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 3: you want to make the rules For alabama elections or
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 3: do you want them to be made by five justices In. Washington,
• 1:21:52
  Speaker 3: right that's fundamentally.
• 1:21:54
  Speaker 1: It's the strongest argument you can, make almost like a
• 1:21:56
  Speaker 1: states rights.
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 3: Argument, YEAH i just have a hard time If i'm
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 3: an elect the legislature In alabama saying, WELL i don't
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 3: really want to make the. RULES i like the way it,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 3: is and that it's coming From. Washington i've never heard
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 3: that In. Alabama SO i think that they will very
• 1:22:10
  Speaker 3: much be behind this because, again The, amendment very, simple
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 3: is a question of who decides it puts it back
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 3: in the hands of the people and our. Representatives and
• 1:22:20
  Speaker 3: so we're not Telling, alabama, oh you got to.
• 1:22:23
  Speaker 2: Have this rule or you've got to have that.
• 1:22:24
  Speaker 3: Rule we're saying To, alabama we Want alabama's to decide
• 1:22:28
  Speaker 3: what the rules.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 2: Are and SO i think it's a compelling.
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: Case there's a reason results matter more than, promises just
• 1:22:37
  Speaker 1: like there's a Reason morgan And morgan Is america's largest
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 1: injury law. Firm for the last thirty five, years they've
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 1: recovered twenty five billion dollars for more than half a million,
• 1:22:46
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• 1:22:50
  Speaker 1: nothing just hoping to get away with paying as little as.
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 1: Possible morgan And morgan fought back ended up winning. Millions in,
• 1:22:56
  Speaker 1: fact In, pennsylvania one client was awarded twenty six million,
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 1: dollars which was a staggering forty times the amount that
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 1: the insurance company originally. Offered that original offer six hundred
• 1:23:06
  Speaker 1: and fifty thousand dollars twenty six, million six hundred and
• 1:23:09
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• 1:23:11
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• 1:23:24
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• 1:23:30
  Speaker 1: Morgan their fee is free unless they. Win what's been
• 1:23:36
  Speaker 1: the toughest pushback you you've had to deal?
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 3: With, WELL i think there's two forms of opposition AND
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: i respect them both and we take them both. Seriously
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 3: one is the intellectual opposition is. LEGIT i, mean The
• 1:23:52
  Speaker 3: Supreme court isn't filled with dumb. PEOPLE i mean this.
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 1: Theory, no this is a libertarian, argument. Right.
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah the first having something to do with spending the
• 1:24:01
  Speaker 3: money in politics is a serious, argument and there are
• 1:24:04
  Speaker 3: still a fortunately small number of people who agree with.
• 1:24:09
  Speaker 3: It but the data on it now after fifty, years
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 3: is not very supportive of that.
• 1:24:14
  Speaker 2: Theory so the, idea.
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 3: Even if one thought it made, sense now that we
• 1:24:18
  Speaker 3: see it in, practice it doesn't really seem very supportive
• 1:24:22
  Speaker 3: of free speech principles unless your view of free speech
• 1:24:25
  Speaker 3: is different than what Most americans seem to, think which
• 1:24:28
  Speaker 3: is free speech does not mean you get to drown
• 1:24:31
  Speaker 3: out every other. Person and, so but that argument is still.
• 1:24:34
  Speaker 3: There the court sticks with, it many. Others you, know relatively,
• 1:24:39
  Speaker 3: speaking it's probably ten percent in the, polling ten to fifteen.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 3: Percent and so we respect. That we'd love that debate
• 1:24:46
  Speaker 3: because we win it every, time and because that's not
• 1:24:49
  Speaker 3: where people. Are we've seen the, data we've seen the.
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 3: Results but that's constitutional issues always have two. Sides there's
• 1:24:55
  Speaker 3: no reason why this one. Won't so that's. Okay we'll
• 1:24:58
  Speaker 3: argue that one out we think will win the, votes
• 1:25:01
  Speaker 3: and the for a freedom amendment will be the new.
• 1:25:04
  Speaker 3: Rule the second one is more, serious and that's the
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 3: ones you don't see that the, operatives the multi billion
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 3: dollar political industrial complex now that's made a lot of
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 3: money off the. System they're not coming out to debate,
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 3: necessarily they're coming out to just try to stop.
• 1:25:19
  Speaker 2: This AND i this is.
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: Ject this is WHAT i fear the. Most there is
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 1: so many wealthy people In washington who have made a
• 1:25:25
  Speaker 1: killing off of super. Packs, yeah and they're mere existence
• 1:25:29
  Speaker 1: and there's an entire ecosystem that is now close to
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 1: twenty years old when you think back to really it
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: began with the two thousand and four you Know act
• 1:25:37
  Speaker 1: was sort of the first one of these, then and
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 1: it was, like, hey you don't even have to do that.
• 1:25:41
  Speaker 1: Anymore you you don't even have to pretend there's a
• 1:25:46
  Speaker 1: distinction between The kerry campaign and your independent. Expenditure you
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 1: can have the candidate themselves can raise money for both. Entities, now,
• 1:25:54
  Speaker 1: right that's essentially what since The united allowed and it's
• 1:26:00
  Speaker 1: now a generational. Industry. Right there are people that have
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 1: whose livelihoods depend on these independent. Expenditures and you're, right
• 1:26:11
  Speaker 1: like that's probably the biggest impediment you. Have are you,
• 1:26:15
  Speaker 1: know people who are afraid of losing out on. Cash.
• 1:26:19
  Speaker 3: YEAH i think that's absolutely right when we take it.
• 1:26:21
  Speaker 3: Seriously but you, know that is the.
• 1:26:23
  Speaker 2: Fight that is the.
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 3: Question about are we able to overcome that or is
• 1:26:34
  Speaker 3: this our? Future and if it's our, future remember we're
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 3: only twenty years, in as you, said back to two
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 3: thousand and. Four if imagine what it looks like twenty
• 1:26:42
  Speaker 3: years from, now fifty years from, now is not. Sustainable
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 3: and so the question is are we willing to fight
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 3: for what we? Got AND i don't mean fight, VIOLENTLY
• 1:26:50
  Speaker 3: i mean fight with a constitutional battle which will decide the.
• 1:26:54
  Speaker 3: Issue and we're not the first ones who had to do.
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 3: This imagine you mentioned the progressive income. Tax imagine the
• 1:27:00
  Speaker 3: amendment that had to go around saying we're going to raise, taxes,
• 1:27:03
  Speaker 3: right so ours?
• 1:27:04
  Speaker 1: Bad it was because people had had. IT i mean
• 1:27:07
  Speaker 1: this is where the moment people had had it with wealthy.
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 1: People and back then the income text really only applied
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 1: to a small group of.
• 1:27:14
  Speaker 3: People, yeah and there's pretty good analogies, today don't you
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 3: think you, LOOK.
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 1: I think absolutely that sort of should money equal. Power
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 1: we understand money equal. Speech but what you've actually done
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 1: is you've equated those with the most money has the most.
• 1:27:31
  Speaker 1: Power was that actually the founder's?
• 1:27:34
  Speaker 3: Intent, yeah, Exactly and SO i like our. CHANCES i
• 1:27:38
  Speaker 3: don't underestimate the opposition and the. Power but that's what
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 3: this is is a power, struggle and that's what that's
• 1:27:45
  Speaker 3: the that's The american story.
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 1: Is can you assuage my libertarian friends by, saying, hey
• 1:27:49
  Speaker 1: this amendment doesn't prevent a state legislature or even a
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 1: FUTURE Us congress from creating a system with minimal.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 3: Limits, yeah that is the argument that gets libertarians on our,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 3: side and we have many which is WHAT i.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 1: Thought you, Know, yeah because the WAY i read, this
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 1: it doesn't it's not one. Sided if the state Of
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 1: wyoming wants to be a libertarian wants to be the
• 1:28:11
  Speaker 1: inin rond experiment and essentially take away all regulate regulations
• 1:28:17
  Speaker 1: and markets and on that go to, it this amendment
• 1:28:21
  Speaker 1: would guarantee that within the confines of the state Of.
• 1:28:25
  Speaker 3: Wyoming, Right, yeah there's no reason a libertarian would prefer
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 3: the current system over our, amendment which has a much
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 3: more libertarian orientation than the current. SYSTEM i, think you,
• 1:28:35
  Speaker 3: know a lot of, libertarians just like a lot of,
• 1:28:37
  Speaker 3: businesses just like a lot of wealthy. People they, see
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 3: like you, said money equaling power means government gets more
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 3: and more power because it's a pay to play system
• 1:28:47
  Speaker 3: and this sort of you, know and it's going up
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 3: in orders of magnitude in terms of who can play
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 3: and who, pays and so what you don't get is
• 1:28:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of liberty going. Around and SO i think
• 1:28:58
  Speaker 3: real libertarians think about you, Know John locke and the
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 3: sort of order ordered, libertarianism which, is you, know it's
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: it's again that question of who, decides not not what
• 1:29:09
  Speaker 3: the answer. Is and so by moving it back to the,
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 3: people you're absolutely. Right if a libertarian legislature, says, hey
• 1:29:16
  Speaker 3: our view, is you, know no, rules then they this
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 3: doesn't force them.
• 1:29:21
  Speaker 1: Otherwise and this is a you, know it's interesting reading
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 1: your Amendment. Again the idea of paid campaigning was probably
• 1:29:29
  Speaker 1: not something the founders fully thought. About they knew there'd be,
• 1:29:31
  Speaker 1: factions they knew there'd be moneyed interest per, se but
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 1: it was not A i think it's. Fairness but you're
• 1:29:40
  Speaker 1: a bit more of a historian on. THIS i, mean
• 1:29:42
  Speaker 1: how front of mind was the idea of of of
• 1:29:46
  Speaker 1: wealth having a contributory factor to the.
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 3: Democracy, WELL i think there's two different things. There one
• 1:29:53
  Speaker 3: is you're, right absolutely no ability even to foresee the
• 1:29:58
  Speaker 3: kind of money in, politics specifically around elections and campaigns
• 1:30:03
  Speaker 3: that we have they. Did they were distrustful of, Parties
• 1:30:07
  Speaker 3: they were distrustful of even acting like you're, running you,
• 1:30:10
  Speaker 3: Know George washington famously, saying, Well i'll, serve But i'm
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: not going to run around and ask for. Votes you,
• 1:30:15
  Speaker 3: know it was a it was a different kind of.
• 1:30:17
  Speaker 3: Thinking but they were obsessed with. Corruption they were obsessed
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 3: with the power of money to corrupt the political system
• 1:30:25
  Speaker 3: in a lot of. Ways the revolution was, around you,
• 1:30:29
  Speaker 3: know was again it was a question who decides not
• 1:30:31
  Speaker 3: not whether there should be a tax on, tea but
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 3: whether who gets to make.
• 1:30:35
  Speaker 1: The people get to?
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 2: Decide, Right, Yeah.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 3: And so you know, this a notion that it's going
• 1:30:41
  Speaker 3: to be a republic versus an aristocracy is essentially saying
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 3: we're going to be a place where wealth won't decide those.
• 1:30:48
  Speaker 3: Questions AND i think the the consistency of our constitutional
• 1:30:53
  Speaker 3: solution of money in politics with that founding vision of
• 1:30:57
  Speaker 3: What american is is really.
• 1:30:59
  Speaker 1: Profound and, LOOK i think one of your other challenges
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 1: and fair unfair is limiting campaign, finance limiting putting limits
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 1: on on the financing of. Campaigns is it is perceived
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 1: to help the left over the. RIGHT i, CAN i
• 1:31:21
  Speaker 1: can argue it both, ways So i'm. NOT i am,
• 1:31:24
  Speaker 1: not but that is to me a perception hurdle you, have,
• 1:31:27
  Speaker 1: right anytime you can Have it's, like why IS dc
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 1: not a state? Yet and you know why can we
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 1: GET dc And Puerto rico to come in? Together you,
• 1:31:35
  Speaker 1: know they because the right has to be convinced that
• 1:31:38
  Speaker 1: they'll Have you know that it isn't automatically going to
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 1: change the balance of, power, right that there's a equal
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 1: opportunity here in having new states added that they write
• 1:31:48
  Speaker 1: D c. Alone, right the right opposes not on on
• 1:31:52
  Speaker 1: on high minded grounds but on simply pure political power.
• 1:31:55
  Speaker 1: Grounds and so anytime you can have an, amendment that
• 1:31:59
  Speaker 1: is that, it you, know benefits they both that ideologues
• 1:32:04
  Speaker 1: on both sides could make the case helps them better
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 1: off you. Are how do you break through this idea
• 1:32:11
  Speaker 1: that that limiting camp putting restrictions on the financing have
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 1: campaigned only helps the?
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: Left, well the facts are the best argument against, that
• 1:32:23
  Speaker 3: AND i think increasingly with every election cycle somebody has
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: been punched in the face by money in, Politics so
• 1:32:31
  Speaker 3: each time we have an, election we get more, data
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 3: and SO i think that's that's no longer the. Case
• 1:32:38
  Speaker 3: SO i think in the early days After Citizens, united
• 1:32:41
  Speaker 3: The mitch McConnell kind of Public republican party, thought, hey
• 1:32:44
  Speaker 3: we can win with with unlimited money and it'll hurt The.
• 1:32:48
  Speaker 3: Democrats so why would we be Against Citizens? United that
• 1:32:53
  Speaker 3: that's no longer. TRUE i, Mean republicans have lost The
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 3: wisconsin judicial race because of, money hundred million dollars coming
• 1:33:01
  Speaker 3: in for that.
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 1: One don't you want to Stop George? Soros? Right is
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 1: that your best line to the?
• 1:33:08
  Speaker 2: Right, WELL i don't have. To they'll say it to.
• 1:33:10
  Speaker 3: Me they'll tell me, that and it's a true. THING i,
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 3: Mean George soros really does spend a lot of money in,
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 3: politics and it comes down to the local, level which
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 3: it really.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 2: Affects if you.
• 1:33:21
  Speaker 3: Think About republican, interests it's it's, local it's state. Based
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 3: and now every election has been, nationalized right down to
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: the DA's DA's races and even school. Committee so that's
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: A republican. Issue but, Look democrats have gotten very good
• 1:33:35
  Speaker 3: at this game, too and nobody is too confident that
• 1:33:39
  Speaker 3: they'll be able to prevail over the long haul with
• 1:33:42
  Speaker 3: one system or. ANOTHER i was talking to A Texas
• 1:33:44
  Speaker 3: republican In. Dallas he looked at our map of. States
• 1:33:48
  Speaker 3: twenty three states have gotten behind this, amendment and he
• 1:33:51
  Speaker 3: looks and he, says you Got california In New. York
• 1:33:54
  Speaker 3: why would The democrats vote for? This because in his,
• 1:33:57
  Speaker 3: mind it's The democrats who have the advance with big.
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: Money and if you're In, texas you know this Turn texas.
• 1:34:04
  Speaker 3: Blue outside money coming in all the. Time their experience
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: is The democrats are using the system against, them and
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 3: so everyone has their own. Experience AND i think we're
• 1:34:15
  Speaker 3: getting to the point now which which we thought would,
• 1:34:18
  Speaker 3: happen and why the amendment is actually going to get
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 3: done where both sides know that they actually won't have
• 1:34:24
  Speaker 3: a sustained advantage in the current, system and both have
• 1:34:27
  Speaker 3: an interest in.
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 1: THIS i assume you'd love if a mainstream presidential candidate
• 1:34:32
  Speaker 1: or both got behind. This, obviously if you could get
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: both dominees behind this in twenty eight you'd get to
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 1: thirty eight states pretty. Quickly is that your hope that
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 1: you're going to influence the debate, itself or how do
• 1:34:44
  Speaker 1: you hope to galvanize here to get to the to
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: get you, know twenty three states is one, thing thirty
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 1: eight to? Another or do you want to do you
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: really Think, Congress i'm skeptical you can get it through This.
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 3: Congress you, know we look at how other amendments were.
• 1:35:02
  Speaker 3: Done you, know it's interesting the founders intentionally took the
• 1:35:05
  Speaker 3: president out of the. Deal there's no veto of, this
• 1:35:08
  Speaker 3: there's no signing of. This it's the one thing That
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 3: congress does where the president has no role and the
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 3: governors have no. Role the legislatures when they, ratify do the,
• 1:35:18
  Speaker 3: vote there's no governor.
• 1:35:19
  Speaker 2: Roles SO i think that's.
• 1:35:20
  Speaker 3: Intentional but obviously presidential races are focused a lot of.
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 3: Attention we would welcome both presidential candidates from both parties endorsing.
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 3: This but in the, end this isn't a top down
• 1:35:32
  Speaker 3: kind of. Thing this Is god have come up from
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 3: the people from the. States that's how you get the
• 1:35:37
  Speaker 3: vote In. Congress that's why we do the work with
• 1:35:39
  Speaker 3: The americans in every. State we don't care who you vote.
• 1:35:42
  Speaker 3: For we're on the ground and Supporting americans to get this.
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 3: Done and that'll be plenty to get our congressional vote
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 3: and ratification in The. States the presidential politics of, it you,
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 3: know it could help or could. Hurt if one side
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 3: supports and the other side, doesn't then it's we're pushing
• 1:36:00
  Speaker 3: up against partisan. Perceptions and so our job is simply
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 3: to Support americans where we live in The, states and
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 3: we'll get we'll get the.
• 1:36:09
  Speaker 1: Votes, so.
• 1:36:11
  Speaker 3: You, know we do have a candidate pledge and we
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 3: invite all candidates to sign, it and and we have
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 3: about half and Half republicans And. Democrats but in the you,
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 3: know the politics of the presidential race in twenty eight
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 3: will we'll do what they. Do and in the, meantime
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 3: there's a lot of work that we all can do
• 1:36:31
  Speaker 3: where we. Live and that's get you, know get behind this,
• 1:36:34
  Speaker 3: amendment move it forward and ask our elected, representatives no
• 1:36:37
  Speaker 3: matter which party they, are to support. It and then
• 1:36:40
  Speaker 3: it'll be in the presidential candidate's interest to do so,
• 1:36:42
  Speaker 3: too because that's where the votes will come.
• 1:36:44
  Speaker 1: From where is the most amount of your efforts to
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 1: galvanize people Go is it on the ground in state legislative?
• 1:36:53
  Speaker 1: Races is it? More Where how is it that you
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 1: feel you guys can be the most?
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 3: Effective, Yeah the biggest THING i would say about, That,
• 1:37:02
  Speaker 3: chuck is we don't we always say we're not going
• 1:37:05
  Speaker 3: to end the. Constitution american promise isn't going to do.
• 1:37:07
  Speaker 3: It The american people will do. It our job is to.
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 3: Serve and so what is the highest, leverage fastest way
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 3: we can Move americans behind this constitutional solution to money in.
• 1:37:18
  Speaker 3: Politics and so a lot of our staff support is
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 3: in the, states supporting people, there and we have replicable
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 3: work through networks like business, networks local, chambers local. Rotaries
• 1:37:32
  Speaker 3: and if we do, that not only are we getting
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: the wins in the state, legislatures we're leaving in those
• 1:37:38
  Speaker 3: states after they pass. This it's not like we're parachuting
• 1:37:41
  Speaker 3: it in and then. Leaving we're leaving behind a well
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 3: informed electorate that is eager to see this, done that's
• 1:37:48
  Speaker 3: carrying it forward with leadership from state, legislators from business,
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 3: groups from civic. Groups so that's where we focus our.
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 3: Attention it's not really about just you, know landing in
• 1:38:01
  Speaker 3: trying to get wins and moving. On it's about support
• 1:38:04
  Speaker 3: through these kind of, networks network. Strategy and, so, yeah
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: we want votes and. Legislatures we've we've racked up a
• 1:38:11
  Speaker 3: whole bunch of. Them we've won ballad. Initiatives we're seven
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 3: and zero in states on ballid initiatives the most, recent
• 1:38:17
  Speaker 3: And maine was eighty six. Percent so we do the
• 1:38:21
  Speaker 3: work that Lets americans be heard on this and then
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 3: gets legislators voting for, it no matter which party they.
• 1:38:27
  Speaker 1: Are, so you, know a lot of times having you,
• 1:38:31
  Speaker 1: know there's nothing like a reform smoker to tell you
• 1:38:33
  Speaker 1: not to. Smoke you, know do you have a Living
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: koch brother And George soros jointly supports something like. This
• 1:38:41
  Speaker 1: do you have super wealthy donors that have that have
• 1:38:44
  Speaker 1: benefited from the system come out and Favor does that
• 1:38:46
  Speaker 1: help or hurt your?
• 1:38:47
  Speaker 3: Cause, WELL i will, say, first we disclose all our,
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 3: donors SO i encourage you to sign up At americanpromise
• 1:38:53
  Speaker 3: dot net check out our annual. Report and the REASON
• 1:38:56
  Speaker 3: i say that the beauty of it is you can
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 3: look at all our donors AND i bet you won't
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: know any of. Them it's regular. People and it doesn't
• 1:39:02
  Speaker 3: mean they're all small dollar. Donors there are people wealthy
• 1:39:05
  Speaker 3: people too who are very concerned about this. Interest, yeah and,
• 1:39:08
  Speaker 3: yes many of them participate in the current. System spending,
• 1:39:12
  Speaker 3: wise but it's not working for, them just like it's
• 1:39:15
  Speaker 3: not working for most. PEOPLE i, remember you, know we're
• 1:39:18
  Speaker 3: talking to somebody who's fairly, wealthy basically telling, us you,
• 1:39:22
  Speaker 3: know ten million dollars doesn't get your phone calls returned.
• 1:39:25
  Speaker 3: Anymore so it's like when they start feeling like they
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 3: have no, voice you know.
• 1:39:30
  Speaker 1: That, well it's, funny, right the seven figure donor is
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 1: just another. Donor, yeah major parties, now so it really it's.
• 1:39:39
  Speaker 1: Funny it's sort of like what used to buy? Access does? It?
• 1:39:42
  Speaker 1: Well you you don't get what you're paid for, anymore,
• 1:39:44
  Speaker 1: Right like.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: All sorts of.
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 1: THINGS i remember WHEN i remember when bribing a politician
• 1:39:48
  Speaker 1: was a, nickel, Right, no, yeah maybe that is maybe
• 1:39:53
  Speaker 1: that is a way to get some of these folks on.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 3: Board, yeah but you, know the we have no, cokes
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 3: we have no, sources we have no famous. Downers But
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 3: i'd encourage all of them to like ask, themselves you,
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 3: know whether you're the coach or the, sarus is this
• 1:40:08
  Speaker 3: really working for you and for the. Country and it
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 3: would be great to see them, say, hey we can
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 3: keep doing, this but let's join together and put an
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 3: end to.
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 1: It jeff. Clements it's, Look I'M i am one of
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 1: those who believes we are in a moment that, FRANKLY
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 1: i think we could use from civics, education we could
• 1:40:26
  Speaker 1: use a moment focusing on The constitution and sort of
• 1:40:29
  Speaker 1: getting people. THERE i think, inevitably you, know in some,
• 1:40:34
  Speaker 1: days you know this is never let a crisis go to.
• 1:40:37
  Speaker 1: Waste this is one of. Those we're in a crisis
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 1: moment for. Democracy it's an opportunity to do some. Repairs
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 1: so we'll see if we'll do. It we'll see if
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 1: we can get.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 3: Traction absolutely, Well thank, You, chuck really enjoyed talking with you.
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 1: Today appreciate, It appreciate the, Time, john good luck with.
• 1:40:53
  Speaker 2: It thank you so. Much thank Care.
• 1:41:02
  Speaker 1: WELL i hope you're ready to sign. Up as at
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: the point there is is simply this is an amendment
• 1:41:09
  Speaker 1: about giving our legislative branches on the federal level and
• 1:41:14
  Speaker 1: on the state level the power to do. This, ultimately
• 1:41:19
  Speaker 1: the judiciary has taken away the legislative branch's ability to
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 1: actually regulate the financing of campaigns because there's been an
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 1: interpretation that money equals. Speech so if you want to
• 1:41:33
  Speaker 1: have regulating any sort of regulation regulating on, spending regulating on,
• 1:41:38
  Speaker 1: giving you're going to have probably you're going to have to.
• 1:41:42
  Speaker 1: Have it's clear our judiciary has, said you, know you
• 1:41:45
  Speaker 1: could spend fifty years hoping you can convince judges to
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 1: look at the content The First amendment differently on that,
• 1:41:51
  Speaker 1: front or you'll put in an amendment that is because
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 1: guess what this won't take Away and that's WHY i
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 1: ended it. There this is not about putting in an
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 1: amendment to regulate the financial doesn't mean a state might, say,
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 1: hey we're gonna have unlimited. Financing you, know there's just
• 1:42:09
  Speaker 1: but the point is is giving that power to the
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 1: legislature rather than giving that power to the, judiciary which
• 1:42:17
  Speaker 1: in this, case we've allowed unelected judges to decide our
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 1: campaign finance. Laws and that is not what anybody. Intended All,
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 1: RIGHT i got my top five. List it Is, Wednesday
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 1: Top top AND i thought i'd give you the opportunity
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 1: to give you maybe The Chuck Todd holiday book buying gift,
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: guide if you. Will these are five books THAT i
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 1: think are worth reading this. Year doesn't mean they're my
• 1:42:53
  Speaker 1: five favorite books of the, year but they were five
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 1: books THAT i found, informative, important or interesting or a
• 1:43:01
  Speaker 1: little bit of. Both so number five on that list
• 1:43:08
  Speaker 1: is a book that did not come out this. Year
• 1:43:10
  Speaker 1: it actually came out a few years, ago and it's
• 1:43:14
  Speaker 1: not a book that got a lot of. Attention but
• 1:43:17
  Speaker 1: it is now a book THAT i would recommend to
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 1: anybody that works in the world of finance or works
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 1: in the world of business that they need to go
• 1:43:25
  Speaker 1: pick up a copy in the next few weeks and.
• 1:43:28
  Speaker 1: Read and it is Called The, drift and it is
• 1:43:31
  Speaker 1: By Kevin. Hassett so why DO i say you need
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 1: to write this book read this? Book, well this is
• 1:43:36
  Speaker 1: a book that got very little attention when it came.
• 1:43:40
  Speaker 1: Out he wrote this book probably assuming he was never
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: going to work in Another trump. Administration the book came
• 1:43:47
  Speaker 1: out just after the twenty twenty. Election Kevin hassett worked
• 1:43:50
  Speaker 1: in the First Trumpet he's one of the few people
• 1:43:52
  Speaker 1: that worked in a high profile position in the First
• 1:43:55
  Speaker 1: trump administration as an economic advisor and has made it
• 1:43:59
  Speaker 1: to a Second trumpet. Administration it's basically Him Stephen, miller,
• 1:44:04
  Speaker 1: right AND i Guess russell voightd was was, there but
• 1:44:09
  Speaker 1: but more in a in a in a lower. Capacity
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 1: But Kevin hassett very well maybe the next chair of
• 1:44:14
  Speaker 1: The Federal, reserve and so understanding his worldview and much
• 1:44:22
  Speaker 1: of his, worldview he's sort of the point of the
• 1:44:25
  Speaker 1: drift is he basically defends The trump, era defends his
• 1:44:30
  Speaker 1: work With trump and The trump era as, look there
• 1:44:33
  Speaker 1: may be a lot of things not to like About Donald,
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 1: trump the, person which he sort of which he hinside
• 1:44:38
  Speaker 1: in this, book but that he was a necessary correction
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 1: for what was a drift towards socialism that was taking
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 1: place not just inside The Democratic party but in various
• 1:44:49
  Speaker 1: institutions of academy and the, media et. Cetera it is
• 1:44:52
  Speaker 1: how he frames his. Book regardless of whether you agree
• 1:44:56
  Speaker 1: with that framing or, NOT i would, argue if you
• 1:45:00
  Speaker 1: want to be a well informed person about understanding where's
• 1:45:05
  Speaker 1: THE fed, going what Does hassett? Believe how does he
• 1:45:10
  Speaker 1: Interpret trump's? Beliefs how does he Defend? Trump Kevin, asseid
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 1: who somebody who sort of came up in the, world
• 1:45:17
  Speaker 1: the same world That Alan greenspan came up. Through you,
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 1: know he was sort of an acolyte at times of Green.
• 1:45:23
  Speaker 1: Span SO i think it it. Is it is as
• 1:45:28
  Speaker 1: illuminating as any ex staffer book is going to be
• 1:45:31
  Speaker 1: because what this book wasn't unlike Say pence's book Or
• 1:45:38
  Speaker 1: John bolton's. Book it isn't a total evisceration Of Donald.
• 1:45:44
  Speaker 1: Trump it is more of an. Observation you, know there's
• 1:45:49
  Speaker 1: he takes, Pride so it is not an antagonistic book On.
• 1:45:53
  Speaker 1: Trump BUT i think it's one of. THESE i don't
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: think people realized he wrote a. Book didn't get a
• 1:46:00
  Speaker 1: lot of. Attention it's you, know it's not The i'm
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 1: not going to tell you it's the world's greatest, read
• 1:46:08
  Speaker 1: BUT i think it's an important. READ i know some
• 1:46:10
  Speaker 1: of you listen to my podcast just for you, know
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 1: whether you love or hate the DIRECTION i take this.
• 1:46:18
  Speaker 1: Podcast you were looking for usable, information, WELL i would
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 1: tell you reading this book will give you plenty of
• 1:46:26
  Speaker 1: usable information to navigate A fed and a central bank
• 1:46:31
  Speaker 1: that could be run By Kevin. Hassett and you get
• 1:46:34
  Speaker 1: to get ahead of the, game get to know the
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: book before senators start asking him questions during his confirmation
• 1:46:40
  Speaker 1: hearing about the. Book all, right so that's number. Five
• 1:46:44
  Speaker 1: number four is The Mark twain book By Ron. CHERNOW
• 1:46:50
  Speaker 1: i enjoyed it for the most, part But i'll be,
• 1:46:53
  Speaker 1: honest not as much AS i enjoyed His grant. BOOK
• 1:46:56
  Speaker 1: i did enjoy His grant book, more BUT i learned
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 1: a lot About Mark. Twain and in some, Ways Mark
• 1:47:00
  Speaker 1: twain is, arguably you, know the closest thing that we
• 1:47:05
  Speaker 1: had in the nineteenth century to a quote unquote, influencer,
• 1:47:07
  Speaker 1: right an outsider and outside force who could who could
• 1:47:13
  Speaker 1: stir the pot of the country and could galvanize the
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: country on certain issues if he so. Chose you, know
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: now we have a Million Mark twain's. Right you, know
• 1:47:25
  Speaker 1: would Today's mark Would Mark twain himself be on? YouTube
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: he probably. Would he certainly would have A would he
• 1:47:32
  Speaker 1: have a podcast or would he be more of a
• 1:47:33
  Speaker 1: monologue kind of? Guy? Right would he interview others or
• 1:47:37
  Speaker 1: would he just simply opine on a given? Day but,
• 1:47:42
  Speaker 1: uh it's A i enjoy sure now because he's WOULD
• 1:47:49
  Speaker 1: i do the best part of his. Books it isn't
• 1:47:53
  Speaker 1: just learning more about the individual he's talking, about but
• 1:47:57
  Speaker 1: he just does a great job of capturing the era as.
• 1:48:00
  Speaker 1: Well you, know it's the little, details it's that, stuff
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 1: trying to understand the world that these folks were living
• 1:48:08
  Speaker 1: in at the, time not just trying to understand the
• 1:48:12
  Speaker 1: psyche of them in that. Moment so BUT i think
• 1:48:17
  Speaker 1: That twain in some ways the Quintessential, american a model
• 1:48:22
  Speaker 1: for so, many so many of, us, good bad or
• 1:48:24
  Speaker 1: otherwise just a it's a timely it's a timely. Moment it's,
• 1:48:31
  Speaker 1: timely you, know it's it's timely's the wrong. Word, no
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: it's more of a timeless, biography if you. Will BUT
• 1:48:37
  Speaker 1: i think an important, one and it came out this,
• 1:48:39
  Speaker 1: year SO i definitely think it should be on your
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 1: on your gift. Liss number three is is one that
• 1:48:47
  Speaker 1: you may not be surprised And I'm i'm pushing again
• 1:48:50
  Speaker 1: and it's the Right thompson book Called The. BARN i
• 1:48:52
  Speaker 1: don't know if it technically came out this year or.
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: NOT i don't think it. DID i think it came
• 1:48:57
  Speaker 1: out last. Year but as you, know you know it's
• 1:49:01
  Speaker 1: this first of, all it's just this is a really
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: just a great book to. Read it is if you
• 1:49:08
  Speaker 1: want to, write what it's like to read somebody who
• 1:49:13
  Speaker 1: just is just better with words than most people in
• 1:49:17
  Speaker 1: your life. Are that's Right thompson AND i LOVE i
• 1:49:23
  Speaker 1: hope you had a chance to listen to the interview with.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 1: Them those of you that. Did i'm sure you've already
• 1:49:28
  Speaker 1: bought the. Book it is such a compelling. Read but
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 1: the sort of the idea behind the, book, right that
• 1:49:35
  Speaker 1: here was something that happened within twenty five miles of
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 1: where he grew. Up, Right Emmett till killed in a
• 1:49:41
  Speaker 1: barn just within essentially the same neighbor you, know in
• 1:49:44
  Speaker 1: the same larger community that he grew up. In that
• 1:49:47
  Speaker 1: Right thompson grew up, in and he didn't know anything about.
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 1: It it's amazing how little of our own a little
• 1:49:54
  Speaker 1: of our local, history we sometimes know the good or
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 1: the bad. History and so in some, ways reading the,
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 1: BOOK i hope a lesson to, hey don't forget to
• 1:50:05
  Speaker 1: look around where you. Live don't forget to learn the
• 1:50:07
  Speaker 1: history of your own. Neighborhood you may be surprised on
• 1:50:10
  Speaker 1: how much you learn and how much it may matter
• 1:50:14
  Speaker 1: in the in the grand scheme of. Things so that's number.
• 1:50:16
  Speaker 1: Three number four on my list is one hundred and Seven,
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 1: Days Kamala harris's memoir about her. Campaign, Look i've spent
• 1:50:25
  Speaker 1: a lot of time talking about the book when it came,
• 1:50:27
  Speaker 1: out BUT i did enjoy. IT i you, know we
• 1:50:32
  Speaker 1: can debate whether this was good for her future political
• 1:50:35
  Speaker 1: career or bad for her future political. Career but guess
• 1:50:37
  Speaker 1: what it felt. Like it was sometimes these memoirs are so,
• 1:50:42
  Speaker 1: dishonest are or they're, honest but they're but they're. Sanitized
• 1:50:48
  Speaker 1: this didn't feel very. Sanitized this felt. Different and you
• 1:50:53
  Speaker 1: know it's interesting about. HER i was having this conversation
• 1:50:57
  Speaker 1: With crystalism and he, said you know who had the,
• 1:51:00
  Speaker 1: yes who had the best or worst twenty twenty. Eight you,
• 1:51:03
  Speaker 1: know we both agreed That Gavin, newsom for anybody think
• 1:51:06
  Speaker 1: about running for president of The democratic, Side Kevin newsom
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: probably had the best twenty twenty. Eight he believes That
• 1:51:12
  Speaker 1: Kamala harris at the. WORST i. DON'T i disagreed with
• 1:51:16
  Speaker 1: him on. IT i understood the case, saying, well you,
• 1:51:18
  Speaker 1: know she made everybody, mad and it's, true, right she
• 1:51:22
  Speaker 1: seems to. Have she seems to have thrown a few
• 1:51:26
  Speaker 1: matches at a few of the bridges that she's crossed
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: over the. Years right, then maybe she burned a bridge
• 1:51:31
  Speaker 1: With Biden, world maybe she burned a bridge with Jos,
• 1:51:34
  Speaker 1: Shapiro maybe she burned a bridge With Mark. Kelly maybe
• 1:51:37
  Speaker 1: she burned a bridge With Gavin. Newsom but there was
• 1:51:43
  Speaker 1: another part of me that was surprised at her, candor
• 1:51:47
  Speaker 1: and she didn't play the. Type you, know she's been
• 1:51:50
  Speaker 1: a politician that's been very careful over the, years and
• 1:51:53
  Speaker 1: she chose to be less careful in this. Memoir is
• 1:51:56
  Speaker 1: this a Different Kamala? Harris is this the beginning of
• 1:51:59
  Speaker 1: a different relationships she wants to have with with her political,
• 1:52:02
  Speaker 1: career a different way she'd go about running for. Office
• 1:52:07
  Speaker 1: the point is is THAT i think there's a lot
• 1:52:08
  Speaker 1: to learn about one hundred and scent about sort of
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: the state of The Democratic party circa twenty twenty. Four
• 1:52:17
  Speaker 1: BUT i found it quite, compelling and it, was you,
• 1:52:21
  Speaker 1: know not a hard. Read especially you, know it was
• 1:52:23
  Speaker 1: sort of like it's like reading the director's notes on
• 1:52:27
  Speaker 1: a movie you already, saw but in some ways the
• 1:52:30
  Speaker 1: director's notes help you understand the movie even a little bit.
• 1:52:33
  Speaker 1: BETTER i think you're not wasting your time by reading this.
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: BOOK i think there's something to learn and the number
• 1:52:42
  Speaker 1: one book And i'm in the middle of it, now
• 1:52:45
  Speaker 1: BUT i think it is absolutely consequential reading circa twenty
• 1:52:50
  Speaker 1: twenty five is a book Called Fateful. Hours it is
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: by Vulkar ulwrich And it's been translated from the Original
• 1:52:58
  Speaker 1: german by a gentleman Named Jefferson, chase and it is
• 1:53:01
  Speaker 1: a new take on the collapse of the we are,
• 1:53:04
  Speaker 1: republic the democracy that was in place After World War
• 1:53:09
  Speaker 1: one and before the rise Of. Hitler why did it?
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 1: Fall how did it? Collapse what were the warning? Signs
• 1:53:16
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of commentary about how democracies, fail how
• 1:53:20
  Speaker 1: republic how republics. Die, well this is an example of
• 1:53:25
  Speaker 1: a republic that died one hundred years ago and in
• 1:53:28
  Speaker 1: its place came made Off. Hitler how did it? Happen
• 1:53:32
  Speaker 1: how could such a modern westernized place do. This let's
• 1:53:38
  Speaker 1: just SAY i have found it both reassuring and, alarming
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 1: but most importantly it's eye. Opening and, LOOK i a
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 1: is the the the the the they must read article
• 1:53:54
  Speaker 1: of the month THAT i gave you last episode from
• 1:53:58
  Speaker 1: the political quarterly of the count On Foreign relations Called Foreign,
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 1: affairs about this idea that we The United states have
• 1:54:06
  Speaker 1: slipped from a democracy to something called competitive. Authoritarianism let's
• 1:54:13
  Speaker 1: just say this is a pretty good companion, read AND
• 1:54:16
  Speaker 1: i think one that will round. Out you read all
• 1:54:19
  Speaker 1: five of these, Books, okay you read all five of
• 1:54:23
  Speaker 1: these books AND i think you will be as well
• 1:54:27
  Speaker 1: informed and as ready for the political landscape that we
• 1:54:32
  Speaker 1: are all having to navigate going in to twenty twenty.
• 1:54:36
  Speaker 1: Six so my five Books The drift By Kevin, hassett
• 1:54:41
  Speaker 1: The Mark twain biography By Ron Chernow The Barn The
• 1:54:45
  Speaker 1: Place where A Mattil Was killed By Right, Thompson one
• 1:54:49
  Speaker 1: hundred and Seven days By Kamala, harris and my number
• 1:54:52
  Speaker 1: one recommendation book that you should be reading going into
• 1:54:58
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty, Six Faithful Hour The collapse of the Wim Are.
• 1:55:02
  Speaker 1: Republic so there you. Go there's your shopping list for
• 1:55:05
  Speaker 1: the political junkie in your. Life all, right let's do
• 1:55:15
  Speaker 1: a little, Ass chuck Asked. Chuck first question today comes
• 1:55:22
  Speaker 1: From jason IN ny otherwise known As New. York he, Goes,
• 1:55:26
  Speaker 1: HEY i really appreciate the bonus episodes that you put out,
• 1:55:28
  Speaker 1: recently as political events have. WARRANTED i too believed that
• 1:55:31
  Speaker 1: The indiana GOP's rebuke Of trump And trump's revolting comments
• 1:55:34
  Speaker 1: About Rob reiner were significant enough moments to call for quick.
• 1:55:36
  Speaker 1: Reactions hope to see if more of those in the. Future,
• 1:55:39
  Speaker 1: WELL i appreciate. It, LOOK i go hot and cold
• 1:55:41
  Speaker 1: on THAT i don't want to Be i'm not you,
• 1:55:45
  Speaker 1: know somebody who's just, chasing you, KNOW i don't want
• 1:55:47
  Speaker 1: to be here quote chasing the, news if you. Will
• 1:55:52
  Speaker 1: BUT i also think that that IF i THINK i
• 1:55:54
  Speaker 1: have something to add and trying to add a perspective
• 1:55:57
  Speaker 1: about how you should think about a major, event that's
• 1:56:00
  Speaker 1: WHEN i try to try to chime in on. That
• 1:56:02
  Speaker 1: AND i think these were both significant, events AND i
• 1:56:07
  Speaker 1: think that they're going to trigger larger. Discussions. RIGHT i
• 1:56:11
  Speaker 1: think The indian Of gyop rebuke is a reminder that
• 1:56:14
  Speaker 1: something That i've been sort of forecasting for the last three.
• 1:56:18
  Speaker 1: MONTHS i send you back to a sub STECK i
• 1:56:20
  Speaker 1: THINK i wrote in Late september Early, october which the
• 1:56:24
  Speaker 1: cracks in the coalition were beginning to. Show and then you,
• 1:56:27
  Speaker 1: know right after that, piece we've seen more and more
• 1:56:29
  Speaker 1: examples of. It, right whether It's Marjorie Taylor, green whether
• 1:56:32
  Speaker 1: it's The Indiana, republicans and, yaha, YadA. YadA so it,
• 1:56:35
  Speaker 1: is you, know it is part of this is just, time.
• 1:56:40
  Speaker 1: Right no political movement has THAT i can think of
• 1:56:44
  Speaker 1: in our, history has been able to go more than
• 1:56:46
  Speaker 1: more than eight to ten. Years and we're sort of
• 1:56:48
  Speaker 1: we're at the, end, Right we're at The we're at
• 1:56:51
  Speaker 1: The we're at the beginning of the. End we're at the.
• 1:56:54
  Speaker 1: End it's not the end of the. End it's not
• 1:56:56
  Speaker 1: the end of the. Beginning, OKAY i think that's that
• 1:56:58
  Speaker 1: we're past the end of the. BEGINNING i think we're
• 1:57:01
  Speaker 1: at the beginning of the. End and this is you,
• 1:57:03
  Speaker 1: know it's everything is going to get is going to
• 1:57:06
  Speaker 1: get worse for. Him. Everything you, Know you're going to
• 1:57:09
  Speaker 1: see The republicans fracture a little bit more the closer
• 1:57:12
  Speaker 1: we get to election. Day, Look i'm not saying some
• 1:57:15
  Speaker 1: new outside event that none of us have thought of
• 1:57:18
  Speaker 1: won't create a rally around the flag. Effect there's always
• 1:57:20
  Speaker 1: there are always. Possibilities there's always the one, percent the
• 1:57:24
  Speaker 1: two percent chances where things go another. Direction but on
• 1:57:28
  Speaker 1: the trajectory we're on and assuming sort of you, know
• 1:57:34
  Speaker 1: events that take place within the normal sort of set
• 1:57:37
  Speaker 1: of expectations that we, have this is only going to
• 1:57:42
  Speaker 1: get more. Acute and, then of, course on the writer,
• 1:57:44
  Speaker 1: THING i really think. IT i think there's a Reason
• 1:57:48
  Speaker 1: i'm framing it as a do we need to be
• 1:57:50
  Speaker 1: thinking about whether he's this is the beginning of his
• 1:57:55
  Speaker 1: own downfall of is just his basic. Capacity if you
• 1:58:01
  Speaker 1: don't have a filter for something like this, anymore what
• 1:58:05
  Speaker 1: else is not going so? Well SO i think this
• 1:58:09
  Speaker 1: is one of those that we needed. This this for
• 1:58:12
  Speaker 1: me is a bit more alarming because either staff was
• 1:58:15
  Speaker 1: afraid to tell him this was, crazy or they did
• 1:58:17
  Speaker 1: and he did it, anyway, Right and so these felt significant.
• 1:58:23
  Speaker 1: Enough SO i appreciate you, noticing BUT i promise YOU
• 1:58:28
  Speaker 1: i don't want to go, down you, know chasing every
• 1:58:31
  Speaker 1: squirrel down that. Road all. Right next question comes From
• 1:58:34
  Speaker 1: eric from another question From New. York given the competitiveness
• 1:58:37
  Speaker 1: Of ohio And IOWA Us center, races do you think
• 1:58:39
  Speaker 1: A democrat could win The Florida senate? Race? Thanks, Eric, well,
• 1:58:43
  Speaker 1: look all the ingredients are there for a competitive. Race
• 1:58:46
  Speaker 1: you have an appointed. Senator the history of appointed senators
• 1:58:48
  Speaker 1: in general indicate, that you, know they're the most you,
• 1:58:53
  Speaker 1: know they're more vulnerable than even a first term senator
• 1:58:58
  Speaker 1: trying to seek. Reelection appointed, senators you, know have the
• 1:59:02
  Speaker 1: have the worst of all, worlds, Right they they have
• 1:59:05
  Speaker 1: the they're an incumbent without any of the upside of.
• 1:59:09
  Speaker 1: Incumbency they only have the downsides of. It so there's that,
• 1:59:14
  Speaker 1: right And Ashley moody's you, know she's not a well
• 1:59:17
  Speaker 1: known political figure, yet and But florida's very, expensive and
• 1:59:23
  Speaker 1: The Florida Democratic party is just structurally so far. Behind you,
• 1:59:28
  Speaker 1: know Shared brown has an organization that these almost turn
• 1:59:32
  Speaker 1: key For Ohio. Democrats and even though that's a state
• 1:59:36
  Speaker 1: where overall The Democratic party is in Worsh democratic maybe
• 1:59:40
  Speaker 1: brand is in worship In ohio than it is In.
• 1:59:42
  Speaker 1: Florida structurally they're already more. Competitive They're iowa being a smaller.
• 1:59:45
  Speaker 1: State they have a very strong gubernatorial candidate In rob
• 1:59:49
  Speaker 1: sand that also helps it be. COMPETITIVE i do think
• 1:59:53
  Speaker 1: that if the governor's race gets, competitive then The senate
• 1:59:56
  Speaker 1: race will automatically start to get more. Competitive keep it
• 2:00:00
  Speaker 1: eye out On Jared. MOSCOWITZ i think if he ends up,
• 2:00:03
  Speaker 1: running he's a member Of. Congress he's been on this,
• 2:00:06
  Speaker 1: podcast he. SAID i asked him point blank if he
• 2:00:09
  Speaker 1: was thinking about running, statewide and he, said, well if
• 2:00:11
  Speaker 1: they redistrict me and he would be among the. Targets
• 2:00:14
  Speaker 1: AND i do Think florida still. MIGHT i, Mean i'll
• 2:00:17
  Speaker 1: be curious to see Whether indiana's rejection of redistricting that
• 2:00:23
  Speaker 1: if it means the fever's. Broken but if we do
• 2:00:26
  Speaker 1: have two more states that engage in, this it's gonna
• 2:00:28
  Speaker 1: Be florida And, virginia one for the Team red and
• 2:00:31
  Speaker 1: one For Team. Blue and we'll see what kind of
• 2:00:36
  Speaker 1: we'll know pretty. QUICKLY i Think jared Moscow it's could
• 2:00:39
  Speaker 1: be a very Powerful senate candidate if because he said
• 2:00:42
  Speaker 1: if he gets redistrict he represents sort of Northern Broward,
• 2:00:45
  Speaker 1: county Southern Palm Beach, county they could sort of make
• 2:00:51
  Speaker 1: it a bit you know already was only sort of
• 2:00:53
  Speaker 1: A i think a plus Two harris. District he could
• 2:00:55
  Speaker 1: turn it could turn into something that he's. Buying and
• 2:00:59
  Speaker 1: he sickly said if they go after his district and
• 2:01:03
  Speaker 1: he'll probably just run for The. Senate there's a candidate
• 2:01:05
  Speaker 1: in there, now somebody who's a school board part of
• 2:01:08
  Speaker 1: the school board wars with The moms Of. Liberty it's
• 2:01:12
  Speaker 1: an organization on the left that went After moms For
• 2:01:15
  Speaker 1: liberty and somebody. There but you know she's got a
• 2:01:18
  Speaker 1: you're not going to get a financial commitment unless you
• 2:01:21
  Speaker 1: get a higher profile. Candidate moscowotz might be a high
• 2:01:23
  Speaker 1: profile enough where he could bring a decent a decent
• 2:01:29
  Speaker 1: financial following with. Him BUT i don't think The senate
• 2:01:33
  Speaker 1: race gets competitive without the governor's race being, competitive and
• 2:01:36
  Speaker 1: that's an open. QUESTION i do think That democrats ended
• 2:01:41
  Speaker 1: up with two pretty good candidates in the governor's, race
• 2:01:43
  Speaker 1: And David johny And Jerry. Demings one could argue one
• 2:01:46
  Speaker 1: of them out of run in The senate race that
• 2:01:47
  Speaker 1: they've got too many good candidates in the governor's, race
• 2:01:49
  Speaker 1: not enough good candidates in The senate. Race but we'll
• 2:01:52
  Speaker 1: say BUT i do think it should. Be but the
• 2:01:59
  Speaker 1: cost is it's so. PROHIBITIVE i think they're more likely
• 2:02:02
  Speaker 1: to spend money Targeting mississippi and trying to Put mississippi in,
• 2:02:07
  Speaker 1: play which is not as far fetched as you might,
• 2:02:09
  Speaker 1: think because five million, dollars you, know an extra five
• 2:02:15
  Speaker 1: to ten million dollars In mississippi would have a huge.
• 2:02:17
  Speaker 1: Impact an extra five to ten million dollars In florida
• 2:02:20
  Speaker 1: would have minimal. Impact next question comes From Tboor shinto From.
• 2:02:28
  Speaker 1: Toronto he, says longtime listener watcher From toronto, HERE i
• 2:02:31
  Speaker 1: have a possibly naive question about journalism in THE. Us
• 2:02:34
  Speaker 1: why didn't reporters directly challenge the president when he makes
• 2:02:37
  Speaker 1: inappropriate offensive statements like the ones About Rob ryner are
• 2:02:39
  Speaker 1: calling journalists. Stupid many in the media react ON tv
• 2:02:42
  Speaker 1: or in, print but rarely pushed back to his face
• 2:02:44
  Speaker 1: in the. Moment why isn't anyone asked him directly why
• 2:02:46
  Speaker 1: he behaves that, way maybe using more polite, Language just
• 2:02:49
  Speaker 1: curious why no one takes that? Shot thanks for all
• 2:02:51
  Speaker 1: the great, Insights, WELL i would argue in the first,
• 2:02:53
  Speaker 1: term we all. DID i would ask him questions about.
• 2:02:56
  Speaker 1: IT i confronted him directly at an off the record
• 2:03:00
  Speaker 1: meeting during when he was president, elect basically saying when
• 2:03:04
  Speaker 1: he name checks our correspondence in the, field he puts
• 2:03:07
  Speaker 1: their lives at. Risk he puts a spotlight on him
• 2:03:11
  Speaker 1: in ways that he. DOES i believe he didn't, intend
• 2:03:14
  Speaker 1: is HOW i put. It but you, know there's a
• 2:03:18
  Speaker 1: REASON i think In trump two point, zero why so
• 2:03:21
  Speaker 1: many people in these same positions that some of us
• 2:03:24
  Speaker 1: were in have chosen not to do it because none
• 2:03:27
  Speaker 1: of you, know nobody wants to be fodder to help
• 2:03:30
  Speaker 1: somebody else's social media, following and SO i think there's
• 2:03:36
  Speaker 1: this belief that it it doesn't do what you think
• 2:03:41
  Speaker 1: it's going to, do and if, anything it only it
• 2:03:48
  Speaker 1: only it only puts you in a position of having
• 2:03:54
  Speaker 1: to debate the, president, right which is you're just. So
• 2:03:57
  Speaker 1: it's a lot of us don't want to be a,
• 2:04:03
  Speaker 1: story and we don't want to insert, ourselves not out of,
• 2:04:07
  Speaker 1: fear out of. Distraction we don't want to be used
• 2:04:11
  Speaker 1: as a you, KNOW i didn't like. IT i always
• 2:04:13
  Speaker 1: WHENEVER i got a whiff of a guest trying to
• 2:04:16
  Speaker 1: use an appearance to raise money to don't, fundraise you,
• 2:04:21
  Speaker 1: KNOW i did my best to gum that. Up there's
• 2:04:25
  Speaker 1: a fairly memorable back and FORTH i had With Ted
• 2:04:28
  Speaker 1: cruz one time that it was clear he accepted the
• 2:04:36
  Speaker 1: invitation only to try to use me as an attempt
• 2:04:39
  Speaker 1: for political fundraising. Fodder but the tone of the conversation
• 2:04:46
  Speaker 1: went in such a way that he would have been
• 2:04:48
  Speaker 1: a self owned had he tried. IT i didn't realize
• 2:04:53
  Speaker 1: that's what he was up to until about halfway through the,
• 2:04:54
  Speaker 1: interview and it was, like, oh NOW i know why
• 2:04:57
  Speaker 1: you came, On and it was just. Anyway it was
• 2:05:00
  Speaker 1: during the first. Impeachment if you want to go back
• 2:05:03
  Speaker 1: and go find that back and forth THAT i had with,
• 2:05:05
  Speaker 1: him let's just Say i'll just use three letters to
• 2:05:10
  Speaker 1: give you a hint about where the conversation went TO
• 2:05:12
  Speaker 1: jfk And i'll just let you know and you can
• 2:05:15
  Speaker 1: sort of imagine where the where that part of the conversation.
• 2:05:18
  Speaker 1: Went SO i think that's the that's, why you, know
• 2:05:24
  Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like it gets you, anywhere and IT
• 2:05:28
  Speaker 1: i don't want to say journalists don't do it out of.
• 2:05:30
  Speaker 1: Fear fear is the wrong. WORD i think it's sort
• 2:05:32
  Speaker 1: of like is it? Effective like, ultimately what is our?
• 2:05:38
  Speaker 1: Role is your role to get information out to? UNDERSTAND
• 2:05:44
  Speaker 1: i could tell you the private Conversations i've had with
• 2:05:47
  Speaker 1: him about. This i'm, like why do you you know
• 2:05:49
  Speaker 1: you do? That you? Know he he sort of has
• 2:05:53
  Speaker 1: always viewed the press as playing a, part like almost
• 2:05:57
  Speaker 1: like the chorus and A shakespeare, play that that we're
• 2:06:00
  Speaker 1: all playing a, role and his role is to go
• 2:06:04
  Speaker 1: after the. Press the press is sort of, that you,
• 2:06:07
  Speaker 1: Know i've always equated. It he sees us all as
• 2:06:09
  Speaker 1: if you're familiar with THE wwf SLASH, Wwe AND i
• 2:06:13
  Speaker 1: Have the REASON i USED wwf is back in my,
• 2:06:15
  Speaker 1: day it was THE wwf and it was a guy
• 2:06:18
  Speaker 1: named the press person was a guy Named Gene okerland
• 2:06:22
  Speaker 1: mean Gene, oakerland and he was, who you, know all
• 2:06:26
  Speaker 1: the wrestlers picked on because he was the, press you,
• 2:06:29
  Speaker 1: know et. Cetera AND i always said that That trump
• 2:06:31
  Speaker 1: sort of viewed us as Mean Gene, oakland that we
• 2:06:33
  Speaker 1: were kind of in on the. Joke and he would
• 2:06:36
  Speaker 1: say even say things to me, like, oh it's just
• 2:06:38
  Speaker 1: good for your, ratings it's good for your. NAME i
• 2:06:39
  Speaker 1: d you, know it only gives you more, attention it
• 2:06:42
  Speaker 1: only makes you more, money it only gives you more book.
• 2:06:45
  Speaker 1: Deals that was his mindset about it back. Then IT'S
• 2:06:49
  Speaker 1: i think that's a little more. Nefarious BUT i, don't you,
• 2:06:56
  Speaker 1: know what what do you? Expect what do you expect
• 2:06:59
  Speaker 1: him to? Say sometimes when you, ask you, KNOW i
• 2:07:04
  Speaker 1: understand sort of, like you, Know i'd rather press him
• 2:07:09
  Speaker 1: on why is he pardoning a convicted Drug why did
• 2:07:14
  Speaker 1: he pardon somebody who was convicted of being a drug?
• 2:07:16
  Speaker 1: Trafficker are you taking you? Know did you? Know did?
• 2:07:22
  Speaker 1: It you? Know why do you pardon your? Friends you?
• 2:07:25
  Speaker 1: Know why did you pardon you, Know Henry? Kuayer you,
• 2:07:27
  Speaker 1: KNOW i think there are other questions that if you
• 2:07:29
  Speaker 1: have the chance at a, shot a question because let's,
• 2:07:32
  Speaker 1: say you, know why did you say that About Rob
• 2:07:34
  Speaker 1: bryner and his. ANSWER i can tell you what his answer, Was,
• 2:07:36
  Speaker 1: well he attacked me. First it's always that's always usually
• 2:07:39
  Speaker 1: his defense when they came after. Me you, KNOW i
• 2:07:42
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have said anything had they not said. This you,
• 2:07:45
  Speaker 1: know he always, SAYS i don't attack. PEOPLE i defend,
• 2:07:47
  Speaker 1: myself so BUT i. Could BUT i definitely you're, right
• 2:07:56
  Speaker 1: there is less of this Than trump two point zero
• 2:07:59
  Speaker 1: because as many of us tried this In trump one
• 2:08:02
  Speaker 1: point zero and it didn't seem to go, Anywhere it
• 2:08:04
  Speaker 1: didn't seem to didn't really produce an. Answer you, KNOW
• 2:08:10
  Speaker 1: i think there's a lot of, people And i'm you
• 2:08:12
  Speaker 1: know that listen to this podcast that want the press
• 2:08:16
  Speaker 1: to express the outrage that they. Have but it's the
• 2:08:22
  Speaker 1: equivalent of punching your you, know punching a, wall a dry.
• 2:08:26
  Speaker 1: Wall you, know you might punch a hole in the
• 2:08:29
  Speaker 1: wall and you might feel, strong but then you've got
• 2:08:31
  Speaker 1: to go back and patch up the, wall and what
• 2:08:33
  Speaker 1: have you really? Accomplished you, know you can express your
• 2:08:36
  Speaker 1: outrage in. Him he doesn't say anything, satisfactory and whatever
• 2:08:41
  Speaker 1: he says will outrage people who are already, outraged and
• 2:08:44
  Speaker 1: so it's you, KNOW i think that's you, KNOW i
• 2:08:50
  Speaker 1: don't and maybe that's not a satisfactory enter to. YOU
• 2:08:53
  Speaker 1: i get, it but you, know there comes a point
• 2:08:56
  Speaker 1: of you, know is there anything to be gained and
• 2:09:01
  Speaker 1: understanding more about him or are you just trying to
• 2:09:05
  Speaker 1: go viral for yourself right To, hey, LOOK i took
• 2:09:10
  Speaker 1: On Donald. Trump some of us are not in the
• 2:09:14
  Speaker 1: game of just making this about, ourselves, right and SO
• 2:09:17
  Speaker 1: i think that's also also plays a role on that.
• 2:09:22
  Speaker 1: Front next question comes From adam w Any. Rights i'm
• 2:09:25
  Speaker 1: curious about your thoughts on. This affordability seems to be
• 2:09:28
  Speaker 1: the central theme That democrats seem to be winning. On
• 2:09:30
  Speaker 1: one of the sneaky culprits of rising costs is the
• 2:09:32
  Speaker 1: complete lack of competition and various segments of the. Economy
• 2:09:35
  Speaker 1: perhaps it is the lawyer in, me BUT i don't
• 2:09:37
  Speaker 1: understand Why democrats haven't begun at least bringing up the
• 2:09:39
  Speaker 1: issue of breaking up big. Monopolies Thanks ADAM. W, well you're,
• 2:09:45
  Speaker 1: RIGHT i think. That in, FACT i think there's going
• 2:09:50
  Speaker 1: to be a fear of doing. That but you, know
• 2:09:52
  Speaker 1: they're you, KNOW i think the the stuff that's popular
• 2:09:57
  Speaker 1: is when you point out how these monopolies are costing you.
• 2:10:03
  Speaker 1: Money and SO i just had an interview with an
• 2:10:07
  Speaker 1: economist on my newsphere show a couple episodes, ago where
• 2:10:12
  Speaker 1: we spent a lot of time on the issue of
• 2:10:13
  Speaker 1: surveillance pricing and the fact that you have, this we
• 2:10:18
  Speaker 1: have this phenomenon these days of dynamic pricing where basically
• 2:10:23
  Speaker 1: the new goal is to figure, Out, hey how DO
• 2:10:27
  Speaker 1: i Maximize you, know, You Chuck, todd have a little
• 2:10:32
  Speaker 1: bit more money to spend versus You Jane, doe who
• 2:10:38
  Speaker 1: has less money to. SPEND i want to have you
• 2:10:41
  Speaker 1: both as. Customers BUT i know you can pay more
• 2:10:45
  Speaker 1: Than Jane. Doe how CAN i get you to pay
• 2:10:47
  Speaker 1: more In Jane doe to pay me? Something AND i
• 2:10:54
  Speaker 1: think that you, know whether we've seen that airlines are
• 2:10:56
  Speaker 1: thinking about going down this. Road it was a really good,
• 2:11:00
  Speaker 1: story AND i think it was The Washington post about
• 2:11:03
  Speaker 1: uber and lyft and how you, know on one, phone you,
• 2:11:08
  Speaker 1: know based on information they may have about, you the
• 2:11:10
  Speaker 1: price is one. Thing on another, phone based on information
• 2:11:14
  Speaker 1: they have on the person who owns that, phone the
• 2:11:16
  Speaker 1: price for the same ride from the same location to
• 2:11:19
  Speaker 1: the same location is suddenly, different and how much of
• 2:11:22
  Speaker 1: it is based on what they think you're sort of,
• 2:11:25
  Speaker 1: Oh i'm, Not i'm not that's too expensive for me versus.
• 2:11:28
  Speaker 1: That AND i think that's the type of of discrimination
• 2:11:38
  Speaker 1: that will really sort of you, know middle class discrimination
• 2:11:45
  Speaker 1: is when the middle class grabs the pitchforks watch out, right,
• 2:11:49
  Speaker 1: like you, know when when the supposedly, comfortable you, know
• 2:11:54
  Speaker 1: enough to own a, home you, know have a, couple
• 2:11:57
  Speaker 1: have two, cars be able to afford kids, college all that,
• 2:12:01
  Speaker 1: stuff and they feel as if they're being taken advantage
• 2:12:05
  Speaker 1: of because they have a couple extra, dollars you, know
• 2:12:09
  Speaker 1: the middle and the upper middle class. Revolting that's that's
• 2:12:14
  Speaker 1: when politicians sometimes finally finally start to pay attention to
• 2:12:17
  Speaker 1: some of these. THINGS i think it's possible you will
• 2:12:21
  Speaker 1: see going after you, know tech monopolies on, this but
• 2:12:29
  Speaker 1: we're not quite there yet BECAUSE i don't think the
• 2:12:32
  Speaker 1: public sees the evidence, yet, RIGHT i don't think we're
• 2:12:36
  Speaker 1: you kind of have. To the public needs to be
• 2:12:39
  Speaker 1: a bit better informed on, this AND i think you're
• 2:12:41
  Speaker 1: seeing more and more coverage that's focused on sort of
• 2:12:45
  Speaker 1: how consolidation in various industries has cost the consumer. Money,
• 2:12:50
  Speaker 1: now this is WHAT i think has been the you,
• 2:12:52
  Speaker 1: KNOW i think local media used to do consumer reporting
• 2:12:55
  Speaker 1: a lot better than national, media and the loss of
• 2:12:58
  Speaker 1: local journalism has really gutted the consumer journalism. World this
• 2:13:04
  Speaker 1: is where, INFLUENCERS i, think come. In and this is
• 2:13:08
  Speaker 1: something THAT i, think if you, KNOW i think trusted
• 2:13:11
  Speaker 1: media was higher when we had a lot more consumer
• 2:13:14
  Speaker 1: reporters dedicated to saving consumers money and from being ripped.
• 2:13:18
  Speaker 1: Off and the lion's share of those reporters were on
• 2:13:21
  Speaker 1: the local. Level so the gutting of local gutted out
• 2:13:24
  Speaker 1: the reporters that were providing a real service to Average.
• 2:13:28
  Speaker 1: Americans AND i think the you, know this is among my.
• 2:13:32
  Speaker 1: Goals why DO i want to revitalize local news BECAUSE
• 2:13:35
  Speaker 1: i think this is the biggest missing piece when it
• 2:13:38
  Speaker 1: comes to the lack of trust that we have nationally
• 2:13:40
  Speaker 1: and met with media is we lost our local character
• 2:13:44
  Speaker 1: references and they did a better job worrying about helping
• 2:13:49
  Speaker 1: people on a local level than we have the ability
• 2:13:52
  Speaker 1: to do on the national. Level. Uh and SO i
• 2:13:54
  Speaker 1: think if once we you, know there's more reporting locally
• 2:13:58
  Speaker 1: on scams and pricing discrimination and things like, that which
• 2:14:04
  Speaker 1: is where you're more likely to see. This then you'll
• 2:14:06
  Speaker 1: hit critical mass and it becomes suddenly something that they
• 2:14:10
  Speaker 1: want politicians to do something. About all, Right the last
• 2:14:14
  Speaker 1: question for today is going to come From, dave and he,
• 2:14:16
  Speaker 1: writes Is chuck really enjoy the? Podcast appreciate the mixture of, politics,
• 2:14:19
  Speaker 1: history and college football right. On also love the guests
• 2:14:23
  Speaker 1: you have for interviews and all the information that comes
• 2:14:24
  Speaker 1: from those. Conversations can you tell us how interview prep
• 2:14:27
  Speaker 1: has changed for you from the shorter time limits you
• 2:14:29
  Speaker 1: had to meet the press to now being able to
• 2:14:31
  Speaker 1: do long form interviews on the. Podcast would love to
• 2:14:32
  Speaker 1: hear some of your thoughts on what you think makes
• 2:14:34
  Speaker 1: a great guest conversation on your. Show thanks and happy. Holidays,
• 2:14:38
  Speaker 1: well the biggest thing is just right just having more.
• 2:14:41
  Speaker 1: Time it means THAT i spend more time on a
• 2:14:48
  Speaker 1: specific policy idea that the guests may have in wanting
• 2:14:53
  Speaker 1: to go four or five or six questions deep on
• 2:14:55
  Speaker 1: seid right in to meet the, press if somebody was
• 2:14:58
  Speaker 1: rolling out a policy proposal your eight to ten minute,
• 2:15:01
  Speaker 1: interview you do one follow, up maybe you, know maybe
• 2:15:04
  Speaker 1: a second if it's you think it's really interesting to the,
• 2:15:08
  Speaker 1: viewers then you end up moving. On we don't have
• 2:15:12
  Speaker 1: to do that, here and that's you, know that to
• 2:15:15
  Speaker 1: me allows for some of the nuanced debate and we
• 2:15:20
  Speaker 1: end up what you get and WHAT i Think i'll tell.
• 2:15:22
  Speaker 1: You you ask me what makes a GOOD i think
• 2:15:24
  Speaker 1: what makes a good conversation is when we end is
• 2:15:28
  Speaker 1: when you end up understanding all sides of an argument
• 2:15:34
  Speaker 1: without having me and the guests debate each, other because
• 2:15:38
  Speaker 1: HOPEFULLY i have asked a few of the let me
• 2:15:41
  Speaker 1: ask the perspective from the, left let me ask the perspective
• 2:15:43
  Speaker 1: from the, right and you, know depending on what their
• 2:15:46
  Speaker 1: point of view, is and that by the end of the,
• 2:15:48
  Speaker 1: conversation if you feel like that you would understand how
• 2:15:51
  Speaker 1: this issue would then get debated between sort of stereotypical
• 2:15:56
  Speaker 1: left versus stereotypical. Right Then i've accomplished. Something right Then
• 2:16:00
  Speaker 1: i've given you a, complete uh conversation that makes you
• 2:16:05
  Speaker 1: prepared to understand this issue no matter where else you
• 2:16:07
  Speaker 1: end up getting information about. IT i think the best
• 2:16:14
  Speaker 1: conversations are when THAT i WHEN i kind of know
• 2:16:17
  Speaker 1: them a little. BIT i think that always helps because
• 2:16:22
  Speaker 1: they're more comfortable with me because they know me a little.
• 2:16:24
  Speaker 1: Bit SO i think those make good conversation better podcast. Conversations,
• 2:16:30
  Speaker 1: OBVIOUSLY i do take a much less antagonistic posture because
• 2:16:40
  Speaker 1: this is you, KNOW i always say, this you know
• 2:16:42
  Speaker 1: it meet the. Press there was an expectation that this
• 2:16:45
  Speaker 1: is an accountability, show and this is where we're gonna you,
• 2:16:49
  Speaker 1: know you've gotta you're, test you're testing your your beliefs
• 2:16:53
  Speaker 1: that you, know you're you, gotta you, gotta you gotta tell,
• 2:16:55
  Speaker 1: them you, know you gotta explain your. Rationale and it
• 2:17:00
  Speaker 1: devoted to a you, know single issue or a topic
• 2:17:02
  Speaker 1: or a couple of topics versus here WHERE i may,
• 2:17:07
  Speaker 1: have you, know a large singular reason for booking that, guest,
• 2:17:13
  Speaker 1: say on the issue of how do we open up
• 2:17:15
  Speaker 1: primaries to all? Voters but it means we can meander
• 2:17:22
  Speaker 1: around a little. Bit but it's also you, know not
• 2:17:29
  Speaker 1: everybody can carry forty five, minutes so you have to
• 2:17:33
  Speaker 1: be mindful of, that just like you, know some people
• 2:17:37
  Speaker 1: are great ten minute, interviews terrible thirty minute interviews and vice.
• 2:17:39
  Speaker 1: Versa so in that, sense you've got to you've got to.
• 2:17:44
  Speaker 1: Know but it IS i will tell you, this there
• 2:17:50
  Speaker 1: was only one, interview And i'm not going to say
• 2:17:53
  Speaker 1: who it. Is you guys might be able to figure
• 2:17:55
  Speaker 1: it out by just. Listening there's only one interview WHERE
• 2:17:59
  Speaker 1: i felt LIKE i ran out of questions BEFORE i
• 2:18:01
  Speaker 1: ran out of, Time and ultimately that means we're doing
• 2:18:06
  Speaker 1: a good job of, booking BECAUSE i hope to have
• 2:18:09
  Speaker 1: the type of guess where we you, know an hour is,
• 2:18:13
  Speaker 1: great but believe it or, not there were some questions
• 2:18:16
  Speaker 1: left on the. Table if there are no questions left
• 2:18:20
  Speaker 1: on the, table then probably the guest wasn't quite worth
• 2:18:23
  Speaker 1: the forty five MINUTES i may have spent with. Them
• 2:18:25
  Speaker 1: BUT i actually think SINCE i started this podcast re
• 2:18:28
  Speaker 1: upped this podcast On, APRIL i could think of only
• 2:18:32
  Speaker 1: once THAT i sat here AND i, thought, Well i'm
• 2:18:34
  Speaker 1: kind of exhausted from. QUESTIONS i got to, go BUT
• 2:18:37
  Speaker 1: i kind of IF i finally go twenty minutes with this,
• 2:18:40
  Speaker 1: interview AM i sending the signal that this was a total? Dud?
• 2:18:44
  Speaker 1: Right it's LIKE i almost didn't want to DO i
• 2:18:46
  Speaker 1: didn't think that was fair to the, person SO i
• 2:18:48
  Speaker 1: wanted to make SURE i hit a minimum a minimum time.
• 2:18:51
  Speaker 1: Slot my guess, Is I'M i don't want you guys
• 2:18:56
  Speaker 1: to play the guessing game of who it. Is but
• 2:19:00
  Speaker 1: it's usually pretty obvious when you know somebody isn't working.
• 2:19:04
  Speaker 1: Out it's usually because they don't want to answer, questions
• 2:19:07
  Speaker 1: and you're, like, well why the hell did you come on? Here?
• 2:19:09
  Speaker 1: Right what did you think this was going to? Be and,
• 2:19:14
  Speaker 1: thankfully in some ways the format is self. Selecting right
• 2:19:18
  Speaker 1: if you if you're not comfortable sort of having a
• 2:19:22
  Speaker 1: conversation for forty minutes with, me then you're not going
• 2:19:25
  Speaker 1: to come on. Anyway so in that sense it can
• 2:19:30
  Speaker 1: be self. Selecting, LOOK i Wish i've had there are
• 2:19:36
  Speaker 1: there are a few More republicans That i've been trying
• 2:19:38
  Speaker 1: to get to come on that won't or haven't said yes.
• 2:19:41
  Speaker 1: Yet hopefully they're listening right. Now AND i THINK i know. Why,
• 2:19:46
  Speaker 1: like it's not that they worried about. Me they just
• 2:19:49
  Speaker 1: somehow think that their own voters will that that that
• 2:19:54
  Speaker 1: they only want to spend forty five minutes talking to
• 2:19:57
  Speaker 1: their to their. Base they are not interested in talking
• 2:20:01
  Speaker 1: to swing, voters talking to, independence talking to the intellectually,
• 2:20:06
  Speaker 1: Curious and that's disappointing to. ME i think in, IT
• 2:20:11
  Speaker 1: i think once The Orange man leaves The oval, office
• 2:20:14
  Speaker 1: these People i've been trying to get to come, on
• 2:20:16
  Speaker 1: will come. On but you, KNOW i know that for
• 2:20:22
  Speaker 1: some for some of these, folks they don't want to
• 2:20:25
  Speaker 1: they don't want to have to not answer a question
• 2:20:28
  Speaker 1: that they know is logical for me to, ask which
• 2:20:31
  Speaker 1: is just a, disappointment, Right but this is the world
• 2:20:34
  Speaker 1: we live. In look What look What Susie wilds just
• 2:20:36
  Speaker 1: had to. Do you, know she had to put out
• 2:20:39
  Speaker 1: an apology tweet for an audience of. One and there
• 2:20:43
  Speaker 1: are people that are always looking to aggregate and cherry
• 2:20:46
  Speaker 1: pick what somebody. Says, hey you Know Tom cotton said
• 2:20:51
  Speaker 1: this To Chuck todd on his to on his, podcast you,
• 2:20:54
  Speaker 1: know and you know that's just unfortunately the way, things you,
• 2:20:59
  Speaker 1: know things get weaponized on the stupid left and the stupid,
• 2:21:03
  Speaker 1: right which is, right we know right that it's those
• 2:21:07
  Speaker 1: it's those that are in the business of grifting you on.
• 2:21:10
  Speaker 1: Ideology and these people exist on the left and the,
• 2:21:14
  Speaker 1: right my, friends that have scared off some of these
• 2:21:19
  Speaker 1: folks from coming and swimming in the intellectually curious. Pool but,
• 2:21:26
  Speaker 1: hey come on in the water's, comfortable and if you're
• 2:21:30
  Speaker 1: comfortable in your own, skin everything's going to be easy
• 2:21:34
  Speaker 1: on the check. Podcast but if you're not comfortable in
• 2:21:36
  Speaker 1: your own, skin then, yeah it's going to be an
• 2:21:40
  Speaker 1: uncomfortable forty five. Minutes, hey, listen another round of great.
• 2:21:44
  Speaker 1: Questions there's, more a lot more to. COME i am also.
• 2:21:48
  Speaker 1: WAITING i am. Curious i've not gotten a lot of
• 2:21:53
  Speaker 1: feedback yet from, you specific feedback on where you guys
• 2:21:58
  Speaker 1: aren't prediction. MARKETS i just would love an array of,
• 2:22:02
  Speaker 1: experiences the, good the, bad the, ugly you know, again,
• 2:22:06
  Speaker 1: nonsports the prediction, markets through the prism of non, sports everything.
• 2:22:10
  Speaker 1: Else i'm very curious good, experience bad, experience you, Know
• 2:22:17
  Speaker 1: are you, curious are you? Nervous any of those? THINGS
• 2:22:21
  Speaker 1: i am, Like Like i've expressed to, You i'm cautiously
• 2:22:26
  Speaker 1: pessimistic about the prediction markets and yet and keeping an
• 2:22:32
  Speaker 1: eye on them because SOMEHOW i have a feeling it's
• 2:22:37
  Speaker 1: going to be more impactful than we want to admit.
• 2:22:40
  Speaker 1: Anyway with, That i'm going to shut it down for
• 2:22:43
  Speaker 1: another twenty four, hours BUT i will be back in
• 2:22:45
  Speaker 1: twenty four, Hours so thank you for, listening and until
• 2:22:47
  Speaker 1: we upload, again