Latest / BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show / Oil Analysis 101 - Blackstone Labs - Slick Talk (Crossover)

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Oil Analysis 101 - Blackstone Labs - Slick Talk (Crossover) · BREAK/FIX the Motorsports & Vehicle Enthusiast Variety Show

• 0:00
  Grand Touring Motorsport started as a social group of car enthusiasts,
• 0:04
  but we've expanded into all sorts of motor sports disciplines and we
• 0:08
  want to share our stories with you.
• 0:10
  Years of racing wrenching and motorsports experience brings together
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  a topnotch collection of knowledge and information through our podcast.
• 0:18
  Break Fix.
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  Hello and welcome back to the show.
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  This is Blackstone Joe, and you're listening to the Slick Talk Break
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  Fix crossover episode with our friends at Grand Touring Motorsports.
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  And as a follow-up to the episode we did a couple weeks back, you'll remember that
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  we spoke to one of the major oil providers in the Motorsports world and Blackstone
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  Labs was mentioned on that episode.
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  And we thought, what a great way to introduce people to
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  the idea of oil analysis.
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  So with Joe's help, we're gonna unpack all of that and with us tonight,
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  as a bonus filling in for Brad as our co-host from the drive-through,
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  you'll recognize her as Tanya.
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  Hi, thanks for having me, and welcome to Break Fix, Joe, we're excited
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  to have you on the show tonight.
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  So without further ado, let's just get rolling.
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  So first up, the origin story.
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  Tell us about Blackstone Labs.
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  So it begins in 1985 and that year is very easy for me to remember 'cause that's the
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  last time the Bears won the Super Bowl.
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  So it starts off in 1985, Fort Wayne, Indiana, founder by the
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  name of Jim Stark Oil Analysis.
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  You know, if it seems like a niche thing now, uh, you go back in the
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  eighties, you know, even more so Jim's approach, you know, the customers
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  that were out there largely were just talking about big diesel engine
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  owners, factory machinery, aircraft.
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  In the years since then, and we've really grown into pretty much any area
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  where oil is needed to do its job.
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  We're there Blackstone laps.
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  Through the years, we've just tried to maintain a personalized approach to
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  every customer having a comment specific.
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  To each customer, their sample written by an analyst, no
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  computer generated nonsense.
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  It's a personalized approach that's really been ingrained into our success.
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  So, Joe, why don't you explain for our audience what your role is at Blackstone?
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  So recently I was kind of grappling with answering this just in
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  daily conversation 'cause it's not as simple as it used to be.
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  So I, I came on board.
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  As a data analyst strictly.
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  So I was one of the people who would look at the results and I would summarize what
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  looked like a problem, what looked great.
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  But in the years since I joined the company, I've started
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  to wear quite a few hats.
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  So now I run social media.
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  I started the podcast Slick Talk for Blackstone, so I'm really basically
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  communicating the good news of oil analysis in pretty much any way I can.
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  So it's grown from writing to social media, to podcasting, and
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  who knows where we'll go next.
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  In listening to some slick talk episodes, you go into great detail on individual
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  subjects that we're kind of covering at a higher level to, you know, kind
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  of get everybody a broad brush approach to the whole idea of oil analysis.
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  And one of the things that you bring up on multiple episodes is pinpointing
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  issues with particular types of vehicles or engines and and oils, et cetera.
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  How do you guys make that determination?
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  How do you figure out that a certain engine is doing a certain thing or this
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  is a bad thing versus isn't all twin cam four cylinders basically the same?
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  If they were designed out of the same, you know, let's say Cosworth
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  mold, let's take the four A GE Toyota versus the 20 valve Volkswagen.
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  How do you know the difference?
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  So what we see in general, you can see a typical wear profile where
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  you have a balance, you have a shape of metals as I like to refer to it.
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  And when you see metals that get out that typical shape, we know say let's just
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  take a a particular B-M-W-I-I always.
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  I wanna go back to the S 65.
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  For some reason, we know that it will have about the same amount of, for the engines
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  with leaded bearings, it'll have about the same amount of lead and iron in a sample.
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  And then you'll see copper behind that, and then you'll see aluminum
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  behind that and then crumb.
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  So we can see what's typically dominant and what's not.
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  So one key giveaway for me is seeing an unusual balance.
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  We see maybe a, a, a, an odd amount of chrome.
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  From piston rings, for example, let's say it's way outta line relative
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  to piston wear and, and iron from steel parts like cylinder liners.
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  That can be a, a, a giveaway that something is obviously wrong.
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  Mechanically, it's generating more metal in certain areas that normally
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  does outweighing other metals.
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  That's a concern.
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  There are certain levels that no matter how you slice them,
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  they just are problematic.
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  When you talk about, when you get metals up towards like the thousands of parts
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  per million, say if we're looking at like any gasoline or diesel engine, there
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  simply is not a healthy wear profile that would involve that amount of metal.
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  But then when you, when you go between these areas, you do have
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  a little bit of gray where you have metals that are typically
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  when they're about twice average.
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  That's when we wanna start paying attention to them.
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  But again.
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  We can start earlier if you have a very unusual balance, regardless of the levels,
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  but typically when they start reading about twice average, that's when we wanna
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  keep an eye on them and over trends.
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  If we see a steady increase.
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  That often is a key indicator of a problem.
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  An increase where you're sampling 3000 mile oil change interval
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  after 3000 mile change interval, and you just see the steady climb.
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  That's another way to tell there's something not right mechanically.
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  And then obviously there are very, I would say, concrete results where no matter
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  what something is wrong, the presence of antifreeze, the presence of fuel that
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  is so significant, it's thinning the viscosity, it's diluting oil additives.
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  There's no good way for that to be going on.
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  Running into excess dirt where you see a silicon level that's
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  coinciding with so much excess wear.
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  You do have to play a waiting game sometimes where you have levels that don't
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  match up perfectly with average, but maybe that's due to hard use mods, et cetera.
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  We'll wanna see how trends build.
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  And then obviously you have those times where there's no reason for,
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  you know, once you start getting north of like a thousand parts per
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  million and then you start getting to the point where that also involves.
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  Visible metal coinciding with high level, there's a delicate way of
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  handling trends, and then there are the screaming stop signs.
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  Something is wrong.
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  And I guess in terms of, you know, really pinpointing down, I guess another
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  example, could you provide guidance or give a recommendation to someone?
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  Can you tell for them that they're running the wrong.
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  Motor oil for their engine.
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  Perhaps they've got something that's too thin, they've got an older
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  engine with high mileage, they should be running something thicker
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  because they do already have wear.
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  Is that something that too specific?
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  Well, what it often comes down to is folks will stray if, if they do
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  stray from the manufacturer guidance.
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  Usually it's just not the case that someone can outthink the manufacturer
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  that often comes into play.
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  So if someone is running like a 10 60 an engine that's designed to
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  run a zero 16, it obviously is not what's supposed to be in there.
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  And it doesn't take us to, to know that.
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  Usually I think folks will try and doctor it in such a way where they
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  think, well, okay, yeah, exactly.
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  Your, your example of a high mileage motor.
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  They'll try and outthink whatever the manufacturer says because of
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  mileage, because of other parameters.
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  And we find that.
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  What the manufacturer's telling you to run is the right choice.
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  Managing a problem though, you can't put a bandaid on it with,
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  okay, run a different oil, put this additive in a problem is a problem.
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  The nice thing is you can view the manufacturer guidance as a safe bet,
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  and when we find a problem, you can't really fix it with the oil, with
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  an additive, so it doesn't become an area of recommendation for us.
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  So that actually brings up a really good point.
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  We're gonna talk about additives a little bit more here in a minute, but
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  can you actually detect in the analysis whether somebody has bought, you know,
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  let's say off the shelf, I'm gonna name names, just because people are
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  familiar, you know, a bottle of Lucas or a bottle of sea foam or whatever it
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  might be, or maybe a can of Coke, and they poured it down into the system.
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  Can you detect what someone has done if they didn't report it to you on the slip?
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  Some of them do have dead giveaways, not all of them.
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  What can get tricky is a lot of oil additives.
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  Oil treatments will contain elements that are already present
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  in engine oil to begin with.
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  So some of those can hide, but a few of them, a lot of the popular
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  ones stick out like a sore thumbs.
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  Think turbo max, arch Oil, RevX, um, restore.
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  These are additives that stand out because they use elements that
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  generally are not present already.
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  Turbo max, arch Oil, RevX, I group them together because they all three will
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  contribute a lot of potassium to the oil.
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  Um, they'll also influence the boron level, which boron is
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  present in oils to begin with.
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  A lot of them, but arch oil and RevX have a level far, far higher than what
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  you will ordinarily start out with.
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  So those stand out.
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  Um, as does restore, restore for different reasons.
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  It has a very high concentration of copper and lead.
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  So if you're interested in how your engine's wearing at brass bronze parts.
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  Probably don't use Restore before you send in a sample.
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  And if you're worried about a coolant leak in your engine, please don't put
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  Arch Oil and RevX in there before.
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  I mean, we can suss out what looks typical for the additive and what doesn't,
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  but it can't help your cause if you're worried about that particular problem.
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  Lucas.
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  We know what to expect.
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  It's gonna raise that viscosity, so it's gonna raise it above spec
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  generally, depending on how much you use.
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  So if we see a slightly high viscosity and nothing else is out of line,
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  that generally is just a result of using Lucas, a harmless one at that.
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  Not all of them stand out like C foam.
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  That will generally burn up as the engine reaches operating temp. It's not gonna
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  leave unusual, uh, elements behind.
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  Yeah, we definitely know a few just by looking at the
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  numbers to include Coca-Cola.
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  Yeah, I get it.
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  So it sounds like you guys have come up with a way of, you know,
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  putting this jigsaw puzzle together and pinpointing certain parts.
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  I mean, I listened to those other episodes and it's like, hey, we can pinpoint
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  exactly when it seems like the oil pump is gonna die on that S 65, you know, certain
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  parts because of their composition.
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  So are you guys taking apart these engines in order to figure
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  out how they're constructed?
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  Are you getting the information from the manufacturers?
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  And I bring that up because a lot of older motors, and this doesn't have to be
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  like, you know, the Packard era of cars like the 1930s and forties, we're going
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  back to even the early Porsches where they used unique and precious metals.
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  Like how do you catalog all that stuff and half your splits where
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  the case was magnesium at one point and then they switched to aluminum.
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  You know, so how are you getting all of that information or discerning it?
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  So we do get hands on in in certain instances, especially when we
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  want to learn more about what's causing particular problems.
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  Like we had a, a Nissan CBT transmission, um, in the garage at one point.
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  We see so many of those because that is one where if you're using the wrong
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  oil, that thing will fail and fail fast.
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  And so we wanted to learn more about like what the oil
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  passages look like in this thing.
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  Let's take some swabs and find out metallurgy during training,
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  taking apart 22 liter ecotech.
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  Um, but yeah, not all of them are going to come our way.
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  So we're going to have to rely on the samples that come in, in a lot
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  of cases to learn what to expect.
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  So it all comes down to getting that used oil and seeing what elements
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  are present, what's typical.
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  So there are cases where it might be our first go at a particular
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  engine, a a vintage motor like you've mentioned before, and we're
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  just going to have to feel as we go.
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  But I've never run into a situation where there wasn't a similar model
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  that we did have decent beta for.
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  So even if it's our first go at motor, I can feel pretty confident
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  that I can dive into our history and find at least something adjacent.
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  It is going to be close in terms of design metallurgy, the time it was manufactured.
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  Not a guarantee, but I feel very good about finding a
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  reliable comparison somehow.
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  Some way.
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  We've spent a lot of time focusing on engines, but you know, you
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  also mentioned that you can do transmission and differential
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  analysis or oil analysis as well.
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  What are the things that you guys discover or are able to discover when you're
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  looking at those types of components?
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  So when we're looking at transmissions, obviously transmissions or differentials.
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  There's not as much going on in terms of what parts are generating what metal.
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  They're, they're very simple relative to engines.
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  Like a differential, it's going to be iron and a lot of iron because
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  it's pretty much steel gears.
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  There's just, there's not very much happening.
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  And likewise with transmissions, parts that are major contributors.
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  I mean, if you're looking at like an automatic, the oil pump
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  manuals are just very simplistic in terms of their metallurgy.
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  Again, it comes down to looking at what parts are generating what metal,
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  how much are we seeing relative to a healthy version of that particular model.
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  And just going off from there, if, if, if it's a, if it's a transmission
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  designed to run a very particular kind of oil, we can obviously let you
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  know if the additives of the viscosity appear to be correct, because that's.
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  I would say when it comes down to transmissions,
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  that's the most common thing.
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  People are inquiring about A CVT or a similar transmission where they're
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  like, Hey, I took it for an oil change.
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  Now it's not shifting.
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  Right?
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  Can you see if this appears to be Toyota Ws?
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  Does this look like Nissan and S two and S3 and so on?
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  So we can help folks out and let them know if this appears
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  to be the wrong oil or not.
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  But yeah, similar to engines, we're going to tell you what parts
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  appear to be wearing excessively, how things generally stack up
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  compared to what we see on average.
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  But no luck for those guys hoping for, you know, the great car neck, ESP to say your
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  second gear synchro is about to explode.
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  Right, exactly.
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  We, we can't go too far into the ether, but we will do our very best.
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  There's other things you guys can pick up in the analysis you, you
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  mentioned insoluble traces of lead, you know, other things like that.
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  So do you wanna just elaborate on what that might mean for
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  folks that are unfamiliar?
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  As far as insoluble and what they mean.
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  Yeah.
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  And where lead traces come from.
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  'cause people are like lead, you know, lead is, lead is poison.
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  Right.
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  We don't, we don't do things with lead anymore.
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  So That's a good point.
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  So engines that do not have lead bearings, which I don't know if there's
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  a model that will come out today or in the past 10 years, is gonna
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  have lead bearings from the factory.
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  So there are other sources though.
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  Lead can come from octane boosters.
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  It can, you know, if you're using any non pump gas, even race fuels that will
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  say unleaded will tend to have some present and that will manifest in the
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  spectral exam, will see a lead level.
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  And a good way to tell that's not a problem is if the engines.
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  Normally make zero, none.
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  And, and we see a, a high level it, it generally means
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  that's blow by of some form.
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  It, it's something related to fuel.
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  It's something related to an additive that you put in the fuel.
• 15:28
  If we see manganese present and a high lead level, that's a good clue.
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  I'm looking at octane booster.
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  So yeah, just be aware of stuff like that.
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  If you're using it, it's not going to be problematic, but is a good way to
• 15:41
  explain an unusually high lead level.
• 15:44
  And as far as in solubles, we rely on those to tell us about oil filtration
• 15:49
  because if you have excess, and solubles usually means the oil filter was used
• 15:53
  up and that solid material was no longer being filtered out, so it was
• 15:57
  floating around in the crank case.
• 15:59
  Now these can also come by way of not poor oil filtration or
• 16:03
  the oil filter being used up.
• 16:06
  They can also form.
• 16:07
  Very quickly if the oil's exposed to excess heat and it just starts
• 16:11
  to oxidize rapidly, so insoluble come from the oil itself.
• 16:15
  That's one thing that people generally, they'll say, what?
• 16:18
  What are these insoluble coming from?
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  It's the oil oxidizing and becoming solid in solubles.
• 16:24
  We wanna see a low level, just to give some perspective, a high level
• 16:29
  is anything over 0.6% of the sample.
• 16:33
  So if you have a level above that, even it can start to turn the oil
• 16:36
  abrasive, and then you'll wind up with excess wear as a result.
• 16:40
  Not all oil filters are created equal, but then there's some wives tails
• 16:44
  around, you know, don't buy the white brand, don't buy the orange brand.
• 16:47
  I'll only buy the black ones.
• 16:48
  You know?
• 16:49
  And is, is that really true?
• 16:50
  Because, I mean, if you bust open an oil filter.
• 16:53
  Aren't they just a cartridge inside?
• 16:55
  It's a paper filter.
• 16:56
  Like anything else, are there different, you know, micron levels
• 16:59
  there that, uh, a filtration?
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  Is there one that's really better than the other?
• 17:02
  Here's the issue with that and it, and it comes down to what info we have.
• 17:06
  Folks very rarely will tell us what filter they're using or, or describe even,
• 17:12
  you know, maybe we'll get a brand name, but we won't get anything beyond that.
• 17:16
  Maybe we'll see Wix may, maybe we'll see Motorcraft, but often they won't.
• 17:20
  So what we'll have to do is we'll just have to see where in Solubles land and
• 17:24
  then build trends for them and then see, okay, you use this Wix filter, you're
• 17:29
  in Solubles, we're about this level.
• 17:30
  Then you switch to a different kind.
• 17:32
  It's hard to deliver recommendations without folks
• 17:37
  telling us exactly what they used.
• 17:39
  If you are mentioning what you're running and, and you mention that you
• 17:43
  want to compare your filters and how they performed, we'll absolutely take
• 17:48
  that approach in the comment, we'll let you know how it looks on our end,
• 17:52
  but tricky to develop a database just due to folks not thinking it matters
• 17:57
  and they won't wanna describe it to us.
• 17:59
  I would also say that your inclination about filters just
• 18:02
  being very simple, is also true.
• 18:04
  There's not much going on, but yeah, in general, folks don't want to tell us that,
• 18:09
  but if they do, we'll be happy to go into detail about how we think it's working
• 18:13
  relative to what they've ran before.
• 18:15
  Yeah, so don't be embarrassed that you bought your oil filters at Walmart, right?
• 18:18
  They're just as good as the ones from the dealers.
• 18:20
  They're.
• 18:22
  Around oil filters.
• 18:23
  The historical standard kind of guidance that we've all had is every time you do
• 18:27
  an oil change, change, oil filter, right now with oil change intervals getting
• 18:32
  longer, and these quote lifetime oil fills, how long can your oil filter go?
• 18:37
  Should you still be going in there and changing it?
• 18:39
  You know, every 3000 miles, or if you're on a 5,000 interval, that's fine.
• 18:44
  Or if you're on a lifetime, is it, where is your interval?
• 18:48
  Yeah, so it's a common misconception.
• 18:51
  Well, not so much, you know, I don't wanna make folks ever feel bad for changing the
• 18:54
  filter every time, but you don't have to.
• 18:57
  3000 mile intervals have gone by the wayside for engine oil, pretty
• 19:01
  much with filters similar to that.
• 19:04
  You don't have to change it every time.
• 19:05
  Now, if you want to have confidence in how it performed, the only way
• 19:10
  to know is taking a sample and seeing how much solids are present.
• 19:13
  But I will say that it's a rare day where I see a sample.
• 19:18
  Folks have not even tried to surpass like the, the manufacturer
• 19:22
  recommended interval for the oil.
• 19:24
  It's a pretty rare day that I see in soluble so high
• 19:27
  that I'm like, oh goodness.
• 19:28
  It's, it's, thank goodness you changed that filter as well.
• 19:31
  Generally, folks can go longer than they currently are, but when it
• 19:35
  comes down to throwing out a specific number, that's all relative to what
• 19:40
  your engine, how your engine's doing.
• 19:41
  So if you take a sample after 5,000 miles, I see a low in solubles level,
• 19:46
  then it's within reason for you to go another five on that filter.
• 19:50
  I would also say that when we talk about building trends, it's not that
• 19:53
  folks have to sample every single time.
• 19:56
  Once we get a good trend established, you can get a little bit more
• 19:59
  liberal with how often you sample.
• 20:00
  So it's not as if I'm saying.
• 20:02
  Give us all your money, develop a trend, see how things are consistently,
• 20:07
  and then you can spread things out.
• 20:08
  But yeah, in general, and I think more manufacturers are saying this,
• 20:12
  I just came across Honda, um, the other day advising that you could
• 20:15
  do it every other oil change.
• 20:16
  And for most of their engines, we're talking about seven to
• 20:20
  10,000 mile recommended intervals.
• 20:23
  They're saying you can do it every other.
• 20:25
  Generally that's what I'm seeing as well.
• 20:27
  And folks can if not go longer, especially if they have like a bypass setup.
• 20:31
  That actually brings up a really good question in terms of when you're
• 20:36
  doing the testing, 'cause there's so many variables in all of this.
• 20:40
  What things do you recommend that people keep consistent?
• 20:42
  Is it keep using the same oil filter for a while and then do your oil testing?
• 20:47
  You know, is the Castrol better than the mobile, better than the
• 20:49
  Valvoline or the Havelin or whatever it is you're trying and leave
• 20:53
  all the other variables the same.
• 20:54
  Obviously your driving is gonna be different.
• 20:56
  Maybe you're towing, maybe you're racing, maybe you're just Dr.
• 20:59
  In bumper to bumper traffic.
• 21:01
  What things would you recommend?
• 21:02
  Just keep them the same or the opposite.
• 21:04
  Leave the oil the same and change the filters.
• 21:06
  Right?
• 21:07
  Don't make too many changes.
• 21:08
  Not making too many changes.
• 21:10
  Also, my biggest guideline is don't overreact to one bad sample or don't
• 21:15
  overreact to one less than ideal result.
• 21:18
  Folks will have a high wear level, or they'll have less than ideal,
• 21:23
  you know, shift in wear, and then they wanna change everything.
• 21:25
  They wanna change the oil, the filter choice.
• 21:28
  They wanna start running the engine differently.
• 21:30
  They'll change the oil change in the hole, and then we'll see
• 21:33
  pretty dramatic shifts maybe.
• 21:34
  And then they'll say, ah, I knew Rotella T six was crap.
• 21:38
  And it's like, no.
• 21:39
  I mean, what happened was you had a sample from a car that you just bought.
• 21:44
  You didn't know anything about it.
• 21:45
  You didn't know what the last toor was doing, how long the oil was in.
• 21:48
  We found some excess metal.
• 21:50
  Then you switch to red line and then you have like better results.
• 21:54
  That doesn't say that the last oil was bad.
• 21:57
  This is so superior.
• 21:59
  Make sure we know what's going on.
• 22:00
  As far as how long was the oil in use, what was.
• 22:03
  You know, what were the driving habits?
• 22:05
  So I would say the key thing is never overreact, throw the baby out
• 22:09
  with the bath water, so to speak.
• 22:11
  You want to, I would say make slight adjustments, go slow with it, and then we
• 22:16
  can account for the variables one by one.
• 22:19
  But yeah, if you have a less than ideal result, unless we say, Hey, this is
• 22:23
  obviously you need to go look into this.
• 22:26
  As far as repairs, anything invasive.
• 22:29
  If it's not that sort of scenario, I think it's best to let the trend play
• 22:32
  out with what you're already doing.
• 22:34
  Keep the oil change interval, go ahead, run the same oil, same filter.
• 22:37
  Let's just see if this changes over time, for better or for worse.
• 22:42
  So with these oil change intervals, you know, in the old days people used
• 22:45
  to say, put a magnetic drain plug in.
• 22:47
  Look at what comes off on the drain plug.
• 22:48
  Does that skew the oil analysis?
• 22:51
  Is that something you would still recommend doing just to help kind of
• 22:54
  maybe boost or augment what the oil filter isn't capable of catching?
• 22:58
  So fortunately that doesn't skew our results because metals on the level
• 23:02
  that we test for are too small to be impacted by a magnetic drain plug.
• 23:07
  So when you're talking about levels and parts per million versus the
• 23:11
  visible pieces that will get captured, you can still count on a problem
• 23:15
  manifesting on a microscopic level with or without a magnetic plug.
• 23:19
  So you can use that feel free.
• 23:21
  It's not going to prevent us from looking at a problem.
• 23:23
  It will catch the visible stuff That is good to check for though, because if
• 23:28
  you're seeing visible metal and you have that magnetic plug and place, you know
• 23:33
  what you typically see after you change the oil, then you see, oh, well wait.
• 23:37
  This is clearly an increase.
• 23:38
  I have more metal on the plug, and then we see a sample with high
• 23:42
  levels on a microscopic basis.
• 23:45
  Those are two valuable data points to have together, so feel free to use one.
• 23:49
  It's not gonna throw us off, and you can get a feel for what's typical for you.
• 23:55
  On a visible basis, still staying with this whole, the
• 23:58
  analysis and the oil changes.
• 23:59
  I mean, it's all really related.
• 24:01
  One thing we haven't talked about yet, you know, we, I think we've
• 24:03
  been primarily focused on gas motors, is going back to the origin
• 24:06
  of Blackstone, which is diesels.
• 24:08
  And I'm bringing this up because diesels have more and more now
• 24:12
  to be more, and let's say clean.
• 24:14
  Thanks Volkswagen, but uh, ain't that fine?
• 24:18
  Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:19
  Right.
• 24:20
  But they're doing a lot of recirculation, right.
• 24:23
  Putting particulates.
• 24:24
  Back into the system, especially through the intake, right?
• 24:28
  It's getting either burned.
• 24:29
  Sometimes if there's enough blow by, it's getting sucked into the oil.
• 24:32
  There's all sorts of things going on there.
• 24:34
  You're adding soot, other, you know, carbon deposits, et
• 24:36
  cetera, and creating some sludge.
• 24:39
  Now you're starting to see gas motors try to adopt some of that technology as
• 24:43
  well to help with the emissions and keep the carbon footprint down and all that.
• 24:46
  How does that then change, you know, what you guys are seeing
• 24:49
  and how you're analyzing it?
• 24:50
  I would say with, with with diesel engine oil, the main thing that we
• 24:54
  come across is folks will just be concerned at the very appearance of soot.
• 24:59
  It's like they don't understand sometimes that they normally generate
• 25:03
  soot, so due to the blackened color, they'll assume the oil's not working
• 25:07
  properly or going off from that.
• 25:09
  They'll think if it's their first diesel, they'll struggle to, to see
• 25:13
  what's typical because they've been used to gasoline engines all their lives.
• 25:17
  But really with the advances in diesel engine oil.
• 25:19
  Technology as far as the engines themselves, I mean, we're still treating
• 25:23
  them the same way as far as looking for problems, doesn't cause any sort
• 25:27
  of different analytical approach.
• 25:29
  But I will say that it's, it's not uncommon to see diesel engine oil samples
• 25:34
  now, where, you know, when we look at the insoluble tube that will contain soot,
• 25:38
  you know, the visible appearance of soot.
• 25:40
  It's not unusual to see pretty clean tubes where it'll be a a, a large diesel that's
• 25:45
  been running the oil 30,000 miles and the tube may not even be all that dark.
• 25:49
  So it's not unusual to see them cleaner to see diesel engine oils that don't even
• 25:54
  have a significant appearance of soot.
• 25:56
  I would say that might be a credit to the advancements they're making.
• 26:00
  Um, but except for it's coming out the tailpipe, right?
• 26:02
  Yeah.
• 26:02
  Yes.
• 26:04
  But, uh, yeah, in general, it, it's interesting watching folks react to it.
• 26:08
  The darker the oil, they, the more concern is generated about it, not doing its
• 26:13
  job about the engine having a problem.
• 26:15
  That's the main difference is taking that soot factor into account.
• 26:19
  You know, there's a lot of folks that subscribe to the, as you mentioned,
• 26:22
  the Rotella philosophy, right?
• 26:23
  I'm gonna do my best Mountain Manan impression, now I'm gonna head on
• 26:26
  down to tractor Supply by myself, five gallons of Rotella, and I'm putting
• 26:30
  it in everything, whether it's gas, diesel, hybrid, it doesn't matter.
• 26:34
  When you're doing your analysis, can you see if there's side effects between using
• 26:38
  a diesel oil, which is generally very high in zinc in a gas motor, and maybe
• 26:42
  it's causing some sorts of problems?
• 26:44
  You were talking about pinpointing issues.
• 26:46
  Is that something that shows up?
• 26:47
  Is that prevalent?
• 26:48
  Is that something you know, people should stray away from?
• 26:50
  This actually leads me into a conversation about spec oils as well,
• 26:54
  so let's kind of gear up on that.
• 26:56
  Well, when you're running these oils, literally the wrong oil, you're putting a
• 27:01
  diesel engine oil and a gasoline engine.
• 27:03
  Obviously you can have adverse effects on the wear profile.
• 27:06
  That's very possible to occur, but there's also other issues that aren't
• 27:10
  necessarily going to register and testing, like clogging up a catalytic converter.
• 27:14
  It's something that can absolutely have an impact on where.
• 27:18
  It can be hard at times to suss out.
• 27:21
  Okay.
• 27:21
  What's related to you using diesel engine oil and gasoline motor.
• 27:25
  And what else could have been a preexisting problem?
• 27:29
  What could have been, you know, unique to the engine's wear profile anyway.
• 27:33
  So there absolutely can be adverse effects, can have other issues
• 27:36
  that won't show up in testing.
• 27:38
  By and large, I, I think folks really just can run the wrong direction by trying
• 27:43
  to outsmart whatever's in the manual.
• 27:46
  Yeah.
• 27:46
  And, and, and buying.
• 27:47
  And buying the opposite.
• 27:48
  But, and the same could be true for using, let's say, gasoline engine
• 27:52
  oils in a diesel as well, right?
• 27:53
  Because they're gonna have different chemical compositions that maybe
• 27:57
  are, may or may not be beneficial for that particular motor.
• 28:00
  Yeah.
• 28:00
  Diesel engine oils.
• 28:01
  Are fairly easy to spot compared to their gasoline counterparts because
• 28:06
  yeah, the added levels are much higher.
• 28:08
  You're going to see more calcium, you're going to see more phosphorus,
• 28:11
  more zinc, you know, levels that are more so approaching the
• 28:15
  thousands and above, whereas.
• 28:17
  Gasoline engine oil, you might have to buy like AMS oil to get a, a
• 28:21
  calcium level close to like 3000 or you know, levels that are higher.
• 28:26
  There are specialized racing oils that pack more additive in there.
• 28:29
  It's different formulations.
• 28:31
  A lot goes into that design.
• 28:33
  Yeah.
• 28:33
  So I, I think folks sometimes forget that.
• 28:36
  I don't subscribe to that.
• 28:37
  I only did it once because my engine builder had told me, Hey, when we're
• 28:41
  breaking in this new race engine, I need you to start out on break-in
• 28:45
  for X amount of time, dump it, then go get yourself some synthetic
• 28:48
  diesel oil 'cause it's high in zinc.
• 28:50
  I wanna seat these rings, run this for 300 miles and trash it.
• 28:53
  Right.
• 28:54
  And then because you have to build a motor up to tolerance as well.
• 28:57
  And so I wanna talk about that in a minute too, about the different types
• 29:00
  of oils and spec oil and et cetera.
• 29:02
  But I mentioned this on, on another episode as well, that you know,
• 29:05
  you really need to look into these different types of oils.
• 29:07
  They do provide some benefit, but the longer term effects won't show themselves
• 29:12
  until you do some sort of oil analysis.
• 29:14
  Yeah.
• 29:15
  You're going to want to see.
• 29:16
  How things have progressed from that break-in period.
• 29:19
  And obviously some folks will go about different ways.
• 29:22
  There's, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
• 29:24
  If you want to boost that zinc, that phosphorus level, people will just
• 29:29
  buy ZDDP additive and they won't even worry about going about another way.
• 29:33
  They'll get that zinc and phosphorus from an additive in addition to the
• 29:37
  additive that's present in the engine oil.
• 29:39
  So folks are gonna go about it to get that number higher.
• 29:42
  Fortunately, we don't see that cause a problem putting more additive in there.
• 29:48
  It's something where people will have a number in mind and generally
• 29:51
  it's okay when you're talking about shifts in these additives.
• 29:55
  We're gonna keep an eye on the wear levels and see what trends are showing
• 29:59
  as far as healthy break in, or if we see what looks to be, you know, a ring that
• 30:03
  hasn't seened properly, so on, so forth.
• 30:06
  So Joe, there's a lot of confusion when people walk into a big box
• 30:09
  store and they're looking at a shelf of oils in front of them, right?
• 30:12
  So we mentioned some brands, not to call out any specifically, but there's
• 30:16
  also different types of oil, right?
• 30:17
  You've got conventional, you've got Mineral, you've got Synthetic,
• 30:20
  you've got Mineral, synthetic, you've got Esther, you've got Diesel.
• 30:23
  There's so many different kinds, but what does that all mean?
• 30:27
  How do you know what to choose?
• 30:28
  So folks can generally follow their manual.
• 30:32
  As far as seeking out a couple key things here, viscosity and
• 30:37
  finding an API certified product.
• 30:39
  If you have the appropriate viscosity and you have an API certified product,
• 30:45
  then what you're mainly getting into between the various brands and blends
• 30:49
  are differences in manufacturing process, but they're achieving the same goal.
• 30:54
  Folks will get lost in worrying about ruining their engine by
• 30:58
  switching from like say, one brand to another, one blend to another.
• 31:03
  And we don't see the adverse effects and wear levels that come
• 31:06
  as a result of, oh I, I went from Semisynthetic to a full synthetic.
• 31:11
  Did I ruin the engine?
• 31:13
  That's just not a scenario that we see play out.
• 31:15
  It's simpler than a lot of folks think in that you can rely on a product that meets
• 31:22
  certification that has the appropriate viscosity, guiding them the right way.
• 31:27
  In general, when you wanna switch from, you have an engine that's been
• 31:30
  running conventional dyno oil, its whole life, and then they'll worry
• 31:35
  that semisynthetic went in there.
• 31:37
  It's simply not going to cause the engine to suddenly forget it's an engine.
• 31:41
  It takes a couple oil changes to flush out the old oil completely.
• 31:46
  Or is that a wives tale as well?
• 31:48
  So no, there, there's definite truth to that and a good rule of
• 31:51
  thumb is about 20% generally carries over from one fill to the next.
• 31:56
  So we're always going to have carry over we and we, and we expect that especially
• 32:00
  in instances where folks are sampling and oil that hasn't had very much use on it.
• 32:07
  Most, if not all of the metal in those instances is just going to
• 32:10
  be whatever was in there before.
• 32:12
  You can count on that being a factor.
• 32:14
  And we certainly do, especially in low mileage, low use samples,
• 32:18
  where most of it's just residual.
• 32:20
  You haven't, the motor hasn't had time to generate much new wear, so what
• 32:24
  we have is what was in there before.
• 32:26
  So yeah, it's gonna take a couple of oil changes to get a
• 32:30
  previous product out completely.
• 32:32
  And sometimes it's hard to tell when it's gone, depending on the add of package.
• 32:37
  But if you have very distinctive products, you have like a royal purple that starts
• 32:41
  off with a very high sodium level and then you switch to a product like Castrol
• 32:46
  that doesn't use any significant sodium.
• 32:49
  You can use elements like that to track and see, okay, here's a fill that had
• 32:53
  carry over from that royal purple.
• 32:55
  Now I have, okay, this is a very typical ad of lineup for Castro.
• 32:59
  Refer to the owner's manual, all that stuff for the viscosity and
• 33:03
  the amount of oil and the service intervals and all that kind of thing.
• 33:05
  But in a lot of European cars especially, and we're starting to see this more on
• 33:09
  Asian cars and American cars, some of the high end sub corvettes, et cetera,
• 33:12
  there's the idea of spec oils, right?
• 33:15
  Volkswagen is famous for this, right?
• 33:16
  You have to have the 5 0 5 0 1 for the diesels, and then they came out with the
• 33:19
  5 0 5 0 2 and all this other stuff and it, you know, thou shalt not use any other
• 33:24
  oil, but this one, and there's some people that say, well, I got a bucket of Rotella.
• 33:29
  I'm just gonna use that.
• 33:30
  And I don't feel like paying three times as much for this particular spec oil.
• 33:34
  In your experience, does using or switching away or back and
• 33:38
  forth from a spec oil to something else show any sorts of damage?
• 33:43
  Is that, is it something people should just stick with their spec oil or can you
• 33:47
  take a little bit of risk and say, Hey, I'm going to use this other thing that I,
• 33:51
  I know very well and I'm comfortable with.
• 33:52
  It's, it's not a death sentence.
• 33:54
  Switching away from the spec.
• 33:55
  I mean, there, there are obvious formulations going into that spec.
• 33:59
  There's manufacturer reasons for that spec existing.
• 34:03
  But yeah, it's a situation where folks will call in and they'll say,
• 34:06
  well, I know they released a new spec by having oil that is, if not the
• 34:11
  exact same viscosity, very close.
• 34:14
  And I've looked at the additives look like the same stuff in testing.
• 34:19
  It looks to be, you know, they've sent in say, a virgin sample for
• 34:22
  comparison and they've done a, a, a compare and contrast in those cases.
• 34:27
  I don't expect to see anything.
• 34:30
  Catastrophic or even really adverse.
• 34:33
  Yeah.
• 34:33
  If you have a similar enough product, generally I don't have a reason to
• 34:38
  tell folks Absolutely don't do that.
• 34:40
  Obviously you never have to lose sleep at night going by the book, but hey, if you
• 34:44
  need to complete the oil change and you had a court of Rotella and it's similar
• 34:49
  in every physical way that we know how to measure, I don't have a good way to
• 34:54
  tell you that you're gonna ruin anything.
• 34:56
  Yeah.
• 34:56
  Well, and I bring that up because I, I went through this, I have
• 34:59
  a Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel right, that I used for towing.
• 35:02
  And so there was a technical service bolt that came out and Chrysler
• 35:05
  actually changed their mind on the oil that was supposed to be
• 35:08
  used in that particular engine.
• 35:10
  They made it extremely difficult to find the new weight spec
• 35:13
  oil that was for the TSB.
• 35:15
  And I said, you know what?
• 35:16
  To heck with this.
• 35:17
  So I tried a French oil that was very similar to the
• 35:21
  original weight and whatever.
• 35:22
  And you know, without doing the empirical evidence thing of
• 35:25
  going through a Blackstone test, I was like, it comes out clean.
• 35:28
  It doesn't smell burnt, you know, I'm seeing the same oil temperatures.
• 35:31
  'cause for me that's a big indicator as to whether the, the health of
• 35:35
  the motor is where I want it to be.
• 35:36
  And then I discovered another brand that happens to be
• 35:39
  based out of, let's say Texas.
• 35:41
  And I switched that and I saw a 20 degree decrease in oil temperatures.
• 35:46
  And I was like, that's what I'm sticking to.
• 35:48
  That's the new weight.
• 35:49
  It might not be speck.
• 35:51
  So, you know, I, maybe I'm a candidate for a Blackstone Labs test.
• 35:54
  But you know, there's certain things like that to me that resonate with how the
• 35:58
  engine is doing, how the oil is doing.
• 36:00
  But I think that leads us into a question that Tanya has about race cars.
• 36:03
  All of your customers, are you seeing longevity differences?
• 36:07
  If, if you, if you're out there pounding the asphalt in your race
• 36:09
  car every weekend, got a whatever, Corvette, straight outta the showroom
• 36:14
  or whatever, you know, an everyday car that someone might drive to work at
• 36:17
  groceries in maybe, and then you track it, the manufacturer would say, your oil
• 36:22
  change interval is however many miles.
• 36:25
  Should the enthusiast weekend warrior be changing that oil on a more
• 36:30
  frequent basis because they're running harder or the manufacturer has kind
• 36:34
  of taken into account their high performance engine and, and you can
• 36:38
  still follow the everyday guidance.
• 36:40
  So you wanna rely on how much metal is being generated and
• 36:43
  how that oil bill is holding up.
• 36:45
  Because sometimes we'll come across, you know, it could be a Corvette.
• 36:48
  I, I believe it might have been just the other day I was looking
• 36:51
  at a sample where they had, I wanna say four track days on it.
• 36:56
  About 3000 miles total.
• 36:58
  A good mix of daily driving and track use.
• 37:01
  It was a sample with excellent low wear, uh, an oil that
• 37:05
  had its viscosity in check.
• 37:07
  It had no issue with, you know, excess solids, anything.
• 37:11
  They wanna run longer, and I had no reason not to suggest a longer interval.
• 37:16
  So it's gonna come down to how much metal's being generated.
• 37:19
  If metals are accumulating at a quick enough rate that looks like
• 37:24
  it's probably good for you, good for the car to change it out, then I'll
• 37:29
  tailor my recommendations based on how quickly that metal seems to be
• 37:32
  accumulating, how the oil's holding up.
• 37:34
  But really it's is a case by case basis because one person's
• 37:39
  track day is different from someone else's, is different from
• 37:42
  the mods they put on their car.
• 37:44
  They're demanding more power, resulting in more metal.
• 37:47
  It's a case where you can build your own trend, you can tailor your own
• 37:50
  oil change interval because I might see a WRX that is busting out more
• 37:55
  power than God ever intended, and it's making so much metal as a result.
• 38:01
  That they're going need to change the oil more often than
• 38:04
  someone who is asking less.
• 38:06
  And the motor I here.
• 38:09
  Yeah.
• 38:09
  Can you determine the expiration date of that boxer or what?
• 38:12
  Well, when we see a situation where the metals are only going
• 38:18
  one direction, we can't look into a crystal ball and give you a date.
• 38:21
  But we can tell you there's been a number of times where I've looked at a sample
• 38:25
  and I, I'm surprised the engine's running.
• 38:27
  So I'll just say that.
• 38:30
  Do you have a big, do you have a big red ru rubber stamped
• 38:32
  that says, please stop driving?
• 38:33
  Now
• 38:35
  my version of a rubber stamp is, I'll say a couple times.
• 38:39
  I've said, if this engine hasn't failed yet, it will soon.
• 38:43
  So.
• 38:44
  Well, and that leads, that leads into a really great segue with
• 38:46
  respect to the Motorsport community because I think oftentimes.
• 38:50
  As Tanya said, people get excited, you know, they bought this sports
• 38:53
  car, they wanna go to the track.
• 38:54
  And what they don't realize across the board, whether it's the motor,
• 38:57
  whether it's the tires, whether it's the brake pads, you know,
• 39:00
  we talk about this all the time.
• 39:01
  Heat is the enemy.
• 39:04
  And so when we're talking about oils, heat is definitely enemy oil coolers
• 39:08
  may not always be the solution because not every car is equipped to do that.
• 39:12
  But would you say that, you know, keeping the heat down, especially with respect
• 39:16
  to oil increases its longevity, keeps it from breaking down, having these
• 39:20
  insoluble, all this extra metal, these things we're talking about, how important
• 39:24
  is oil temperature at the end of the day?
• 39:26
  If it's excessive and it's excessive consistently, then yeah, it's, it's
• 39:31
  going to take a widespread effect.
• 39:33
  Boy, if you, you know, take it away from the ground and you go to the
• 39:37
  air and you talk about aircraft, I mean, even more so, temps are key.
• 39:41
  Just because if heat's excessive consistently, the oil's going to generally
• 39:46
  lose viscosity, solidify quicker.
• 39:49
  Metals will be higher.
• 39:50
  You'll have, you know, abrasive material causing excess square.
• 39:54
  It just touches everything.
• 39:56
  So it is worth putting a very high priority on making sure that, you know,
• 40:01
  excess heat is not a reoccurring issue because Yeah, I mean, you're right,
• 40:05
  it's, it's going to impact so much.
• 40:07
  It's hard to see an area that won't be impacted.
• 40:10
  Now, another thing that people may not realize, and not every
• 40:12
  new car is equipped with gauges.
• 40:14
  I mean, the inside of my car looks like an airplane.
• 40:16
  You know, I've added everything I can think of.
• 40:18
  Oil pressure as well is indicative of changes within the engine.
• 40:22
  Do you wanna describe maybe some of the use cases or scenarios where
• 40:25
  fluctuations and oil pressure would be indicative of something that's going on?
• 40:29
  The main thing, whenever I hear oil pressure, especially mainly folks will
• 40:33
  tell us when it's low and that's going to generally coincide if it's wear related.
• 40:39
  It's generally bearings and a bearing problem.
• 40:42
  Also can have other symptoms as as well, you know, oil pressure when low.
• 40:47
  Often that's related to a bearing issue.
• 40:49
  But what I always want folks to do, if we don't see a high wear level,
• 40:54
  if we don't see anything that looks to be excessive on that standpoint.
• 40:58
  Rule out other things like a problem with the sending unit or, or any
• 41:02
  possible way for that reading to be off.
• 41:05
  It's tricky for folks who don't have that gauge handy right there, but if they
• 41:10
  do, and if oil pressure's low, obviously that can coincide with a bearing problem.
• 41:15
  But there's other less nefarious reasons for that.
• 41:17
  So rule out things first, especially if you do end up sending a sample, we don't
• 41:23
  see excess square to go along with it.
• 41:24
  So I heard that oil thickens as it heats up.
• 41:29
  Is that true?
• 41:30
  It it, it will definitely not.
• 41:32
  Thin it, he can raise the viscosity.
• 41:35
  The only time I see an oil that will thin is if you're talking about like
• 41:39
  a TF, because yeah, difference in formulation in physical properties.
• 41:43
  But yeah, motor oil is not going to thin as a result of, yeah, they're
• 41:48
  designed, the viscosity, the viscosity.
• 41:51
  Is kind of that gauge.
• 41:53
  And basically you create a flat profile for the oil.
• 41:55
  So you want the widest temperature range where essentially the viscosity
• 42:00
  stays the same because you don't want, you know, you started your morning at
• 42:03
  one temperature and then as the engine heats up, you don't want the oil to
• 42:07
  change lubricity it, it's viscosity.
• 42:10
  So they're designed to actually have a, a rather even viscosity range
• 42:14
  across a very wide temperature.
• 42:15
  But as, as Joe said, you get too hot, you literally break the oil down,
• 42:20
  you start thermal cracking it, you break it down into to non lubricant
• 42:24
  quality molecules, which is bad.
• 42:26
  You can get evaporation losses that way too.
• 42:28
  So that makes it really confusing because we all go to the store, like I
• 42:32
  mentioned, and we stare at that wall of oil and you see 10 W 40 and you're like.
• 42:36
  Five W 30 zero W 20.
• 42:39
  What the hell am I looking at?
• 42:41
  What does that mean?
• 42:42
  So if oil technically thickens as it gets hot.
• 42:46
  So this all concept of viscosity, people think as, you know, like if
• 42:49
  you think about it in, in a pan in the kitchen, you pour olive oil in a pan,
• 42:52
  it thins out as a heat, as a heats up.
• 42:54
  It's very different.
• 42:55
  So your oil pressure gauge, this all, I'm coming all full circle here guys.
• 42:59
  Your oil pressure gauge, your pressure goes down as the oil heats up.
• 43:03
  So it's like this inverse effect.
• 43:05
  So how does somebody that's like.
• 43:07
  Not comfortable or familiar with this really makes sense of what's going on.
• 43:10
  The, the oil has to be designed in such that when, when it's very cold,
• 43:14
  think you're, you know, in the middle of winter you, you know, God forbidden
• 43:18
  Northern Canada, where you know it's just you and a moose and you're
• 43:21
  gonna start up your car one morning when it's like negative degrees.
• 43:25
  If the oil is like molasses.
• 43:27
  It's really difficult to push through all the engine components, right?
• 43:31
  It's gonna have a very hard time and nothing's gonna wanna spin.
• 43:34
  So the oil's designed to be a certain thinness, if you will, for simplicity's
• 43:38
  sake at that very cold temperature.
• 43:40
  But at the same time, you don't want when the motor heats up and.
• 43:46
  You know, suddenly it's 60 degrees outside or or hotter.
• 43:50
  You don't want the oil to be like water because now you're gonna have
• 43:54
  nothing to prevent metal on metal.
• 43:56
  There's no barrier there for the friction.
• 43:59
  That's dangerous.
• 44:00
  So that's why the oil then is designed in such a way that it's thin enough
• 44:03
  for cold weather and still thick enough when the motor is up to
• 44:07
  temperature, so it's not too thin.
• 44:08
  Going back, you know, we've been kind of circling around this, what's
• 44:11
  the danger in running a weight?
• 44:13
  We'll just call it that.
• 44:14
  That is not necessarily within the parameters or the specifications, right?
• 44:18
  So let's say your car's designed for five W 30 and you say, you know what?
• 44:22
  I picked up 1550 'cause that's all they had.
• 44:25
  And I was three quarts low and I had to put something in it.
• 44:27
  Is there, is there a danger there?
• 44:29
  Are you gonna see that on the oil analysis too with the improper oil weight in there?
• 44:33
  Is that gonna have a SI adverse side effect?
• 44:34
  Well, if you're, if you say that you're running a 1550 and it measures like a
• 44:39
  1550, then that won't be out of line.
• 44:43
  But as for what's going on within the motor.
• 44:46
  Obviously, you know, you, you have a difference in how that would circulate
• 44:50
  at various temperatures, how that would lubricate at certain temperatures as
• 44:54
  the oil, as the engine's getting warmer.
• 44:56
  So if you say you're running a 1515 and measures like one, we aren't
• 45:00
  going to say out of line, but we do know what typically goes in there.
• 45:05
  So if we see a weight that's just unusually low, we'll
• 45:08
  be sure to point that out.
• 45:09
  If I see a BMW that's almost always running at 10 60 and you've got zero 20,
• 45:14
  and I'm gonna say this is interesting, we aren't in a position to, uh, slap
• 45:20
  folks on the wrist as it were, and say people will believe how the engine
• 45:25
  runs, how it feels on their end.
• 45:28
  That will be their gospel nine times out of 10.
• 45:31
  So we're in a awkward position of saying, well, we know what's what's called for and
• 45:36
  surely you do too if you bought this car.
• 45:39
  So going from there and, and, and saying, the only time where I catch
• 45:43
  myself directly telling people not to do it because it's kind of a matter
• 45:49
  of life and death is with aircraft.
• 45:51
  If they're running the wrong oil, a non aslu dispersant oil, I will directly tell
• 45:57
  'em that this looks like you're running the wrong oil, because that can lead to
• 46:01
  detonation and you have an aircraft engine and detonation falling out in the sky.
• 46:06
  You know, stuff like that.
• 46:06
  Yeah, nothing really important.
• 46:08
  But yeah.
• 46:08
  With motors, folks often have their truth.
• 46:12
  It's, it's awfully hard to tell them what to do, but with aircraft, I will.
• 46:18
  You mentioned something really interesting and I picked up on
• 46:21
  it, which you said if it measures out of what it says on the bottle.
• 46:24
  So do you see a large variance in those weights, in those viscosity numbers?
• 46:30
  Is there a certain margin or should you believe what's on the label?
• 46:33
  Is it close to or, yeah, there, there, there's a range.
• 46:36
  We won't see a, just due to variation.
• 46:40
  When the oil is tested, when it's in the ter, you're going to have some variation.
• 46:45
  As far as you know, it's not going to be a certain set of stoke every time out
• 46:49
  of the bottle as it heats up, there's a range for each particular weight.
• 46:54
  So we're going to see if we're measuring an SUS.
• 46:58
  You know, a a a 2050 or, or 10 60 say, just 'cause I have that one end off the
• 47:04
  top of my head, a 10 60 is typically gonna be between 80 and a hundred SUS.
• 47:09
  So we'll see some variation in there, but a reading in that range would
• 47:14
  agree with it, meeting a 10 60 spec.
• 47:17
  Gotcha.
• 47:17
  So you're gonna have some variation as it reaches operating temperature.
• 47:21
  So before we switch to the next geek out session, there's one more engine related
• 47:27
  question I have to ask, and it's for, for one of our members in particular.
• 47:30
  Is there anything that you can discern or that's different or unique about
• 47:36
  a rotary versus a regular internal combustion or pitchin based engine?
• 47:41
  Uh, metallurgy is definitely different than what you typically see Chrome
• 47:45
  from the rotor housing, for example, Chrome in almost any other engine we're
• 47:49
  looking at exclusively as ring wear.
• 47:51
  So you have to be mindful when you're looking at a rotary engine that
• 47:55
  that's not the same metallurgy at all.
• 47:58
  So we expect a difference in wear profile.
• 48:00
  We expect a difference in shape of metal, but much like any other engine,
• 48:04
  we can detect a wear related problem.
• 48:06
  We can go into other areas with contamination, how the oil's holding
• 48:10
  up, but we do keep in mind the design, the fact that metallurgy is
• 48:15
  different and that you're going to see.
• 48:18
  Different sources, but yeah, Chrome is definitely a focal point, a
• 48:22
  difference from most engines out there.
• 48:25
  As far as what's coming from, are apex seals considered an insoluble?
• 48:29
  No,
• 48:33
  no.
• 48:33
  That's right.
• 48:33
  They go out the exhaust valve.
• 48:34
  My, my bad.
• 48:37
  But we could, you know, we could nerd out about, you know, Atkinson
• 48:40
  cranks and all these different types of engines and whatnot.
• 48:42
  But I think we've covered the bases and this is really cool.
• 48:44
  So, so, yeah.
• 48:45
  So moving on to the next topic.
• 48:47
  And we were kind of already, you know, going there with the conversation
• 48:50
  we were having right before the Rotary Fund around engine oil weight
• 48:54
  and, and the temperature effect.
• 48:55
  So, circling back to that, you know, real quick, it's not inaccurate.
• 49:00
  Your thought that as the temperature goes up, I'm cooking on the stove, my oil bins.
• 49:06
  Pure oil, that's what happens.
• 49:08
  But additives are what help make the oil quote unquote be
• 49:13
  thick at higher temperature.
• 49:15
  Basically, it's preventing the oil from thinning.
• 49:18
  So let's talk about additives.
• 49:20
  Do I even, when do I, which do I, these are some of the key questions here, and
• 49:26
  you, Joe alluded a little bit in the beginning of the, the conversation here
• 49:30
  that, you know, the, the major oil brands or even all the oil brands, really the
• 49:34
  final formulation of the engine oils already includes additive packages.
• 49:38
  I mean, that's what really differentiates the Rotella from a cash
• 49:42
  flow from a mobile one, et cetera.
• 49:43
  And those include the viscosity modifiers, which are keeping your
• 49:47
  oil at the right viscosity at high temperature versus is low temperature,
• 49:50
  corrosion inhibitors, stabilizers, detergents, the list goes on and on.
• 49:54
  How does everyday Joe and Jane.
• 49:58
  Know which, or even if they should be adding any more additives than what
• 50:03
  their, their oil already has in them.
• 50:05
  So here's a good thing to keep in mind.
• 50:07
  There are very many secrets in this industry, uh, when it comes
• 50:11
  to oils and, and what goes into them, what additives, et cetera.
• 50:14
  When you talk about stuff in addition to what's in the oil
• 50:17
  already, if there was this just magnificent aftermarket additive.
• 50:23
  It saves motors.
• 50:24
  It prevents terrible things.
• 50:26
  It, it, it stops contamination from worrying anything the oil
• 50:29
  companies would know and, and they would put it in their oil.
• 50:33
  There just isn't going to be a product out there that shell hasn't found exists.
• 50:39
  And you did.
• 50:40
  So you can rest easy with the additives that come with the oil.
• 50:46
  That's because I think folks sometimes don't keep in mind is what all is in.
• 50:50
  I mean, you have detergent, dispersing additives, you have
• 50:52
  anti-friction, you have anti-wear.
• 50:54
  I mean, there's a lot going into these products.
• 50:57
  So when you get beyond what's in that bottle, sure there's going to be different
• 51:02
  ingredients, you know, Lucas and Restore and are, all these additives have things
• 51:08
  that make them unique, but they are all the same elements, physical properties
• 51:13
  that I think the oil that's in the bottle already is gonna cover your bases.
• 51:17
  So that brings up an interesting question, kind of going back to the other episode
• 51:20
  we did about oil where I think it kind of works like a system though to kind
• 51:24
  of dovetail off of what you're saying.
• 51:26
  So you mentioned AM Oil as an example, also Liqui Molly.
• 51:29
  Right?
• 51:29
  They have a whole line of additives.
• 51:31
  I would view it as.
• 51:33
  I don't know how I feel about taking Sero Tech, let's say from Liqui Moley
• 51:37
  and combining it with Mobil One, was it really designed to work together?
• 51:40
  And to your point, the additives in Mobil one may contrast with or magnify
• 51:46
  the additive you're putting in.
• 51:47
  So obviously if Liqui moly designed their additive, it should be designed to work
• 51:51
  with their oil, whatever their formulation is, and then it's the missing link, right?
• 51:56
  It's that piece that you're adding to the oil to make it that much better.
• 51:59
  You know, the magical mystery there that we're trying to solve.
• 52:01
  I guess the only way to solve this, and I'm kind of not really giving you a
• 52:05
  question, but making a statement is to then send the sample to you and say, Hey.
• 52:10
  Is this benefiting me?
• 52:11
  Am I just throwing money away by pouring in this additive?
• 52:15
  Exactly.
• 52:15
  And, and here's the thing too, I, I'd like to add on, you're not going
• 52:19
  to hurt anything by experimenting with these oil treatments.
• 52:23
  I, if you want to see.
• 52:25
  Go, you know?
• 52:26
  Absolutely.
• 52:26
  I mean, we look at hundreds of samples a day that might have ssec in them.
• 52:30
  That's, that's very, very common.
• 52:31
  Feel free to run them.
• 52:33
  See for yourself how the wear levels shake out, because while we hold
• 52:38
  that, the oil has what you need.
• 52:40
  At the same time, we don't see that these additives are going to bring harm.
• 52:44
  Feel free to run them.
• 52:45
  Obviously an oil company will probably tell you that an additive might
• 52:52
  mess with what their oil is doing.
• 52:54
  But the thing is, is that these additives we're talking about in
• 52:57
  general, they contain elements that.
• 53:00
  Often are present in that oil to begin with, so it's not gonna harm anything.
• 53:04
  Feel free to experiment.
• 53:06
  It's just generally we don't see that key difference in wear pattern that
• 53:10
  is a direct result of the additive.
• 53:12
  But folks, you know, I mentioned on, on, on my podcast, they will list benefits
• 53:17
  that they're noticing something in terms of may, maybe it's temperature related,
• 53:21
  maybe it's, uh, maybe it's, it's quieter.
• 53:24
  Maybe the engine runs quieter, so on and so forth.
• 53:26
  Stuff that I might not be able to pinpoint, um, in analysis.
• 53:30
  So if that's a benefit, you're seeing all the better.
• 53:32
  But at the same token, like you said, if you have stuff coming
• 53:34
  across your desk in particular, you go, Hey man, your zinc levels and
• 53:37
  your phosphorus are off the chart.
• 53:39
  You just created Rotella.
• 53:40
  By adding this additive, you would you recommend and say, Hey, you should
• 53:44
  really consider removing this additive.
• 53:46
  You're making it worse if we see a change.
• 53:49
  And the only thing we can account for it is what you're running then
• 53:53
  that's certainly something, I mean, we have to work as detectives every
• 53:58
  day as far as looking at, alright, what might have caused this spike?
• 54:02
  Or what might have brought about, you know, you had healthy wear
• 54:05
  levels and then all of a sudden.
• 54:07
  Things really took a turn.
• 54:09
  We want to know the answer, so we'll, we'll go back and look at your file
• 54:12
  and see, okay, you were running this for each oil change and then metal
• 54:16
  spiked and we don't see that you did any work, any modifications, you
• 54:20
  didn't race, you didn't do anything.
• 54:22
  Okay, so let's go the next step.
• 54:24
  So we will absolutely, you know, we will want to comb through the file
• 54:28
  and see what might be responsible and, and if it does appear to be
• 54:32
  that, and that's our only answer.
• 54:33
  Then there you have, I think you kind of answered the, the second
• 54:36
  question, when do I, it sounds like if the curiosity cat starts scratching
• 54:41
  at your door, you know, go for it.
• 54:44
  Add the additive cocktail and see what happens.
• 54:47
  But then obviously, you know, the right answer might be.
• 54:50
  If you're concerned that you should be adding these additives, perhaps
• 54:53
  the first step should be send a sample to you guys, see what it's saying,
• 54:57
  and then determine, you know, well, you know, my, my car does have, you
• 55:01
  know, 250,000 miles and it's from 19, you know, 85, so, so maybe I should
• 55:06
  be using X, Y, Z additive over here.
• 55:08
  'cause we're seeing this in the results.
• 55:10
  But at the same time, if you just decide, well I've got 250,000 on the clock, I
• 55:14
  think I should throw in this additive, it's probably not gonna hurt anything.
• 55:19
  Exactly.
• 55:19
  And the thing is too, I wouldn't say frustrating is the right word, but I'm
• 55:23
  left wondering why often when I see.
• 55:27
  An engine that's been doing perfectly fine and then they'll say, well, I
• 55:31
  have to start doing something right.
• 55:33
  I I, I surely I, I need to start doctoring it somehow.
• 55:36
  And I, and I, I always wanna bring folks back to the idea that we will
• 55:40
  be sure to mention like, if, if I see a, any sign of trouble, I, I will let
• 55:45
  you know, and I will also let you know before we even start throwing words
• 55:49
  around like excessive or problem.
• 55:51
  And that's the whole point of oil analysis is you get a look before that point.
• 55:55
  Folks will have excellent results through and through and then, and
• 55:58
  then they'll think they have to do something to improve on that.
• 56:01
  And that just usually isn't the case.
• 56:03
  So can you tell if an additive is breaking down or has been basically
• 56:07
  depleted between those oil intervals that we were talking about earlier?
• 56:11
  So active additives, absolutely.
• 56:13
  The ones that are meant to keep.
• 56:16
  From accumulating in the crank case that's directly tied into our
• 56:20
  TBN test, the total base number.
• 56:23
  So when we measure the TBN, this is a separate test.
• 56:26
  It's $10 on top of the, uh, standard analysis.
• 56:30
  So folks will request that usually if they're interested in going
• 56:34
  longer between oil changes and they already are, or maybe they just plain
• 56:38
  wanna see how that oil's holding up.
• 56:40
  They wanna add that nuance.
• 56:42
  A TBN will let you know if those active additives are still doing
• 56:45
  their job or if they are used up.
• 56:47
  So that's something valuable.
• 56:49
  I would say, not necessity for everybody, especially if you've
• 56:53
  had great report after great report and you really aren't the type to
• 56:57
  change something that isn't broken.
• 56:59
  But it is valuable, especially when you wanna extend those intervals or you're
• 57:03
  asking a lot of the engine and you wanna make sure that those active A are
• 57:07
  still strong, still present in that way.
• 57:11
  You don't have to worry about assets going unchecked.
• 57:13
  So for the last question, which do I, you know, which additive do
• 57:16
  I choose as I'm walking down the AutoZone aisle and I see, you know,
• 57:20
  30 of them staring at me in the face.
• 57:22
  Presumably you follow what you know, the manufacturer of that additive says in
• 57:26
  terms of quantity that you add at whatever interval and, and no harm is being done.
• 57:31
  But have you seen anything where there's too much of a good thing?
• 57:36
  I saw a sample one day where a customer ran an entire sump of Marvel Mystery Oil.
• 57:43
  It was all they had in there, and they ran the engine for about five
• 57:46
  minutes, and then they dumped out the Marvel Mystery Oil and sent it to us.
• 57:52
  How'd that turn out?
• 57:53
  So that was a situation where I, in a roundabout way, said, what are you doing?
• 58:01
  So, yeah, I mean it's, it just plain doesn't make sense.
• 58:04
  I'll mention that.
• 58:05
  I'm like, Hey.
• 58:06
  Motor oil comes with things that are there to help you, you
• 58:11
  know, so, so, so absolutely run a sump of primarily engine oil.
• 58:15
  But yeah, I mean, people will adjust their concentrations, but at the same
• 58:19
  time, if I see a heavier dose of arch oil or RevX than what they're using
• 58:25
  previously, generally it's all just gravy.
• 58:29
  And, and it's, and it's not going to.
• 58:32
  Result in any discernible change in wear pattern or how the oil's holding up.
• 58:37
  So it's an expensive way to go about it when you keep adding it in there.
• 58:41
  It just generally doesn't manifest as a material benefit or net negative.
• 58:46
  So, you know, as track rats, we don't normally count
• 58:49
  calories during the weekend.
• 58:50
  You know, you look at the nutrition label in the back of the gummy bears
• 58:52
  and the monster cans and stuff.
• 58:54
  But when you're in the big box store and you're looking at these additives.
• 58:57
  There isn't the equivalent nutrition label there, read all the ingredients,
• 59:01
  but are there certain keywords on that label that a consumer should be
• 59:05
  aware of and say maybe stay away from?
• 59:07
  Is there anything, in your opinion to note there?
• 59:09
  Not in terms of the additive elements, what's coming in that bottle specifically?
• 59:15
  Like there's not gonna be a scenario where you went from running an oil
• 59:19
  that happens to start with say, 90 parts per million of molybdenum
• 59:23
  and, and then you bought another one off the shelf that comes with 150.
• 59:26
  It's not going to result in any sort of worrisome change.
• 59:30
  You mainly wanna rely on that starburst symbol that
• 59:33
  indicates the API certification.
• 59:35
  And then from there, with the correct viscosity, you can live
• 59:39
  with these changes in additives.
• 59:40
  You can live with a, a balance of boron to molybdenum to calcium that is different
• 59:46
  between the various brands and blends.
• 59:48
  It all comes out in the wash usually when you're talking about these differences.
• 59:52
  So yeah, fortunately.
• 59:54
  It's easy for the consumer in that they don't have to worry about.
• 59:58
  Going too in depth as far as the label.
• 1:00:01
  Crack it open, pour it in.
• 1:00:02
  Couldn't say it there myself.
• 1:00:05
  It's like a beer right down the hatch.
• 1:00:08
  We're, we're gonna get a little more of a debate if we're going down that, that one.
• 1:00:13
  So we have a number of folks in our club that actually use
• 1:00:16
  Blackstone Labs on a routine basis.
• 1:00:18
  And it's actually gotten me recently thinking, well, maybe I
• 1:00:22
  should, uh, set a few samples in myself just outta curiosity sake.
• 1:00:26
  I've got a high mileage car, I've got a diesel car.
• 1:00:29
  If I was interested in, you know, finally taking that leap.
• 1:00:32
  How do I engage with Blackstone Labs?
• 1:00:34
  What's that process look like?
• 1:00:36
  So my favorite way to go about it, honestly, is the most direct way
• 1:00:39
  possible, which is calling our office.
• 1:00:42
  The, the thing is, sure, you can go to our website, blackstone labs.com,
• 1:00:46
  you can order a free test kit.
• 1:00:48
  You can do everything online if you need to.
• 1:00:50
  You can also email us and go the indirect way as well.
• 1:00:54
  But phone call.
• 1:00:55
  Here's the thing, anyone in the building is able to help
• 1:00:59
  set you up with an account.
• 1:01:00
  I might field the call if I'm not writing a report.
• 1:01:03
  It might be someone in shipping and receiving.
• 1:01:05
  It might be, uh, someone who helps log in our samples.
• 1:01:08
  Everyone's equipped to describe what we do to create an account for you.
• 1:01:14
  Get samples sent your way.
• 1:01:15
  And the best thing too is if you have any questions about,
• 1:01:18
  okay, uh, here's who I own.
• 1:01:20
  Do you have averages for this engine type?
• 1:01:22
  Here's the oil I'm curious about.
• 1:01:24
  Then you can go from the account setup to speaking with an analyst.
• 1:01:28
  Just like that.
• 1:01:29
  So my favorite way, if I were in the shoes of a customer, I would just
• 1:01:33
  give us, give our offices a call, connect with us, and you can get
• 1:01:36
  every question you have answered.
• 1:01:38
  You can get your account going, get kits coming your way, but
• 1:01:40
  of course, going right to the website works too, if that's more.
• 1:01:44
  Your style.
• 1:01:45
  So these kits, this is akin to not like, you know, some science fair
• 1:01:48
  kit where you're gonna go home with litmus paper and test it yourself.
• 1:01:51
  This is more like the ancestry.com, you know, spit in the tube and send
• 1:01:55
  it off to the lab to be tested, right?
• 1:01:58
  And people have sent stranger things to us than that.
• 1:02:00
  So
• 1:02:04
  it gets pretty crazy, uh, what people see the word laboratory
• 1:02:07
  and, uh, it can extend pretty far.
• 1:02:10
  But yeah, what you're going to get as a kit and it's, it's very simple, but
• 1:02:14
  still people can be a little thrown off because it's, it's outta element.
• 1:02:18
  What's going to arrive to you is a black mailing container with
• 1:02:22
  prepaid postage on the side and obviously instructions provided.
• 1:02:26
  So, and again, that's something where if you have any questions,
• 1:02:29
  don't hesitate to reach out.
• 1:02:30
  But yeah, then you're going to have the bottle, the oil goes into, you're going
• 1:02:33
  to have the slip that you fill out.
• 1:02:35
  The slip is very important.
• 1:02:37
  Please do not send us a kit without any information because.
• 1:02:40
  A, we might not be able to get ahold of you.
• 1:02:42
  B. It's just going to be a runaround process of finding out, okay,
• 1:02:46
  well what engine did you sample?
• 1:02:48
  That way we can tell you more about it.
• 1:02:50
  Very simple, easy to use kit and catching the oil as it's coming out of the oil pan.
• 1:02:54
  You don't wanna be digging it back out of your dirty, reused
• 1:02:56
  a million times oil drum.
• 1:02:58
  Right?
• 1:02:59
  Not optimal.
• 1:03:00
  Not optimal, but there's a lot of ways you can go about it,
• 1:03:04
  you know, in, in a valid manner.
• 1:03:05
  You can either do it straight from the drain, you can retrieve it from the
• 1:03:08
  dipstick if that's possible for you.
• 1:03:11
  And if it's a situation where you had to scoop it out a dirty pan, okay?
• 1:03:16
  We will have to factor in that.
• 1:03:17
  Some elements can be skewed by what was in there already.
• 1:03:21
  Nevertheless, if it's a situation where, you know, there's a very specific thing
• 1:03:26
  you're looking for, like antifreeze or, or some other contaminant.
• 1:03:30
  You can still send it in.
• 1:03:31
  We just will have to take the results with a grain of salt.
• 1:03:34
  Gotcha.
• 1:03:35
  So you're not talking a ton of oil here.
• 1:03:37
  You're not talking ounces of it.
• 1:03:38
  You're talking maybe a small vial.
• 1:03:40
  If you said get it off the dipstick, that's not very much that you
• 1:03:42
  need in order to perform the test.
• 1:03:44
  Well, you can get out of the dipstick tube, but you're still
• 1:03:47
  looking for three and a half ounces.
• 1:03:49
  And again, it's a situation where I've had folks send in like literal, like
• 1:03:53
  sludge off the dipstick that has happened.
• 1:03:56
  You know, you can't do too much with it.
• 1:03:58
  But yeah, so you can go through the dipstick tube using a hand pump and
• 1:04:02
  draw up a three and a half ounce sample.
• 1:04:05
  Obviously you can fudge that amount a little bit, but at the end of the day,
• 1:04:09
  you want that amount to ensure that we can do every test that you're interested in.
• 1:04:14
  You said that Blackstone started out with diesels specifically doing
• 1:04:17
  oil analysis for that, and obviously it's grown into other things.
• 1:04:20
  There's.
• 1:04:21
  All walks of the automotive world from the motorsports guys distill the diesel
• 1:04:25
  trucks and everything in between that are interested in getting their oil analyzed.
• 1:04:29
  The big question on a lot of people's minds is how many samples
• 1:04:32
  does Blackstone process in a year?
• 1:04:34
  So that's a tough one to answer.
• 1:04:36
  I don't have a great answer for you because it has changed every year.
• 1:04:41
  I've been there in the right direction.
• 1:04:42
  It has grown exponentially.
• 1:04:45
  So like I can't even give a good firm answer.
• 1:04:48
  But let's just take it to me and, and, and what I look at in a day,
• 1:04:52
  I'm going to look at at least 50.
• 1:04:55
  Myself, myself, and I'm one person in the building.
• 1:04:58
  So it, it's grown every year.
• 1:05:00
  It's hard to put a number on it, but it's been great to see the
• 1:05:04
  outreach just steadily grow and grow.
• 1:05:07
  So, um, I would say another way to think about it, we're packed
• 1:05:10
  to the gills, um, with samples.
• 1:05:12
  So we, we have hardly any room in the building.
• 1:05:15
  Hardly so too many to count.
• 1:05:17
  Just off the top of my head.
• 1:05:18
  How much does the service cost?
• 1:05:19
  You know, how much does it cost to get a, a sample analyzed?
• 1:05:23
  So you're looking at $30 right now for a standard analysis, and
• 1:05:28
  people hear the word standard.
• 1:05:29
  They kind of think that means it's limited, it's not, uh, standard.
• 1:05:33
  It covers all your bases as far as wear levels, contaminants, viscosity,
• 1:05:39
  you know, the physical properties as a whole nine, that's $30.
• 1:05:42
  And then if you want to add on different tests, then you're typically looking
• 1:05:47
  at about $10 a pop, specialized tests that folks might be interested in if
• 1:05:52
  they want extended oil use intervals.
• 1:05:54
  They wanna know acidity, particle count, but for the lion's share
• 1:05:59
  of folks, you're looking at $30.
• 1:06:01
  And then we might add on a special test here or there if you're interested.
• 1:06:04
  While you were talking, I was, uh, on the website real quick and right
• 1:06:08
  on the homepage, get a free test kit.
• 1:06:10
  And so I, so I clicked it.
• 1:06:11
  So I'm just scrolling down.
• 1:06:12
  And as you were talking, you know, it does list there on
• 1:06:14
  the side and cost per analysis.
• 1:06:16
  And then there's an interesting note here, just for clarification.
• 1:06:19
  It says, once you send your first sample, we automatically send two
• 1:06:22
  kits with your info printed on them.
• 1:06:24
  I ordered my first kit, I filled it with three and a half ounces of dirty oil.
• 1:06:29
  I send it back and then you guys send me another two fresh kits.
• 1:06:33
  Take samples.
• 1:06:34
  That's right.
• 1:06:34
  And that way you have the kits right there to follow up.
• 1:06:38
  And the thing is, is you can hang onto these however long you need to.
• 1:06:42
  Prepaid postage, but feel free to hang onto them if you're not
• 1:06:46
  doing an oil change for a while.
• 1:06:47
  But having two on hand is nice because that way if you wanna
• 1:06:50
  check the transmission, you wanna check a diff, you wanna check
• 1:06:53
  something else in that vehicle.
• 1:06:55
  You have that other kit on hand.
• 1:06:57
  When samples are sent in, are they being tested against the
• 1:07:01
  baseline metrics that you have?
• 1:07:03
  You, like you mentioned, engine and oil type and things like that.
• 1:07:06
  Or are they being based on me and my profile and my car?
• 1:07:11
  And then obviously you need those subsequent tests afterwards
• 1:07:14
  and, and my second part of that question, even though that's like
• 1:07:16
  part A and part B of part one is.
• 1:07:20
  How do you go about interpreting these results as a first
• 1:07:24
  time customer to Blackstone?
• 1:07:26
  So, first time customer, we wanna start with the baseline
• 1:07:30
  that is universal averages.
• 1:07:32
  Don't let universal make you think it's too generic.
• 1:07:35
  And as long as we know what you sample, the universal average will
• 1:07:38
  be tailored to the specific make and model of what you sent in.
• 1:07:42
  So we're going to dial it into the exact engine type.
• 1:07:46
  And also we'll even tailor it to vintage as well, if that applies.
• 1:07:49
  Like for example, BMWs, if you have an S 65 that's made from 2011 on, that's
• 1:07:56
  gonna have a different bearing metallurgy.
• 1:07:58
  Then S 60 fives made prior to that.
• 1:08:01
  So we will get you the most direct comparison possible as your
• 1:08:05
  baseline comparing to other engines of that type that we've seen.
• 1:08:09
  But going forward, we will track your samples and keep your data in what's
• 1:08:14
  called the unit location column.
• 1:08:16
  So that way whenever you have a report, you can look at your history
• 1:08:20
  in that column and see, okay, well my engine generally makes a bit more
• 1:08:25
  copper than most 5.0 liter coyotes.
• 1:08:30
  So.
• 1:08:31
  I know that based on my own averages, even if it's a little higher than
• 1:08:35
  Blackstone's Universal, I know that's not terribly concerning.
• 1:08:38
  That's the baseline, is our universal, which is based on every other
• 1:08:42
  engine of that type that we've seen.
• 1:08:45
  But going forward, we definitely want to look at your data and get more of a
• 1:08:49
  wear pattern that's individual to you.
• 1:08:52
  So almost like bracket racing, as you guys get more and more data points
• 1:08:55
  in there, it actually shifts, right?
• 1:08:57
  So those metrics continue to move as the sample set for that
• 1:09:00
  particular engine, uh, increases.
• 1:09:02
  Exactly.
• 1:09:03
  Exactly.
• 1:09:04
  I mean, and that's what we want to do, is get a feel for what's unique to you.
• 1:09:08
  You know, if you're racing and if you have mods and if you, okay, I have
• 1:09:12
  this tune, I have all these different aftermarket parts, what have you.
• 1:09:17
  We wanna take that into account.
• 1:09:18
  We don't wanna look at your results.
• 1:09:20
  To say, well, this is different from our universal.
• 1:09:23
  You are so screwed, you know, know what's typical for you.
• 1:09:28
  So that's important to us.
• 1:09:30
  That's wonderful.
• 1:09:30
  We're looking at how is my engine performing against itself,
• 1:09:34
  measuring the wear, et cetera.
• 1:09:36
  What about the oil itself that I'm using?
• 1:09:38
  Is there any baseline that I'm using, you know.
• 1:09:42
  Just to throw out a name, Castrol, whatever weight am I in line with, what
• 1:09:47
  Castrol would say certain properties of the oil should be over time?
• 1:09:51
  Are you guys looking at that as well?
• 1:09:52
  So yes.
• 1:09:53
  Physical properties.
• 1:09:54
  Now this is gonna be different than any sort of average.
• 1:09:57
  These are parameters that you either meet or you don't.
• 1:10:00
  So we're going to look at a viscosity in the expected range.
• 1:10:04
  Often this will begin with whatever's in the MSDS from the given uh, manufacturer.
• 1:10:11
  And then we will see if you meet those specs.
• 1:10:14
  Do you have a viscosity in the 10 w?
• 1:10:17
  60 range.
• 1:10:18
  Do you have a flashpoint that is at the desired temperature?
• 1:10:22
  Obviously there are some things that should never be
• 1:10:24
  present like water coolants.
• 1:10:27
  We're also going to look at solid material, which is
• 1:10:30
  quantified in the insoluble test.
• 1:10:32
  And then we're gonna see what percent of your sample is insoluble material.
• 1:10:36
  Lets you know how oil filtration's working.
• 1:10:38
  So those values are all, you either fit the bill or you don't averages
• 1:10:43
  your wear levels, your oil additives.
• 1:10:44
  That's more so tailored to whatever becomes typical for you.
• 1:10:49
  Oh, I mean, I don't know if you're able to comment based on the data you've seen, do
• 1:10:54
  you have any trends on, you know, what you would call the top five performing brands?
• 1:10:58
  What are those top performing brands?
• 1:11:01
  So at one point, you know, after all these times of saying, you
• 1:11:05
  know, we don't see a difference.
• 1:11:07
  We don't see a difference.
• 1:11:08
  We had to put our money where our mouth was and we had to actually do.
• 1:11:12
  A study where we compared, I believe we had AMS oil, we had, um, Royal
• 1:11:19
  Purple Super Tech in the mix.
• 1:11:21
  We had, I, I know for a fact there was some Castro products in there.
• 1:11:25
  We, we cast a wide net and then we went ahead and compared these oils
• 1:11:30
  and various engine types and we dialed in the oil change intervals.
• 1:11:35
  We tried to rule out things like mods, you know, anything that
• 1:11:38
  might alter the wear profile.
• 1:11:41
  This is all in a newsletter, by the way, on our website.
• 1:11:44
  So anyone can go ahead and access this data breakdown and look at the
• 1:11:47
  differences in wear levels and all that.
• 1:11:50
  So we made sure to actually give that detailed breakdown.
• 1:11:54
  From there.
• 1:11:55
  We saw so little change in the wear levels, which that's what matters to us.
• 1:12:00
  So I guess here's why.
• 1:12:01
  I would say, when we talk about not having a favorite brand or blend,
• 1:12:05
  if it's not manifesting and how that engine is wearing, how it's actually
• 1:12:10
  producing metal, if it doesn't appear to be wearing at a quicker rate, we're
• 1:12:14
  hard pressed to rank them otherwise.
• 1:12:17
  So until we see that, we struggle to see the benefit of such a ranking.
• 1:12:22
  So folks will wanna base that on color, on appearance when they change it.
• 1:12:27
  On, you know, these sensory benefits, but really we had to go ahead and, and
• 1:12:32
  do the actual data mining and after all that, we just didn't see the difference
• 1:12:37
  to provide that sort of ranking.
• 1:12:39
  Folks will still try and do that with, with, with other means, but
• 1:12:42
  boy, if it's not resulting in that engine wearing better than it was, I'm
• 1:12:46
  hard pressed to, to play favorites.
• 1:12:48
  Have you seen a difference in your trend analysis between say, a major,
• 1:12:54
  like a mobile one versus Walmart brand or something lesser known?
• 1:13:00
  Right.
• 1:13:01
  It surprises people, but.
• 1:13:03
  Super tech oils are accessing the same ingredient lineup that you're going
• 1:13:09
  to get with the bigger oils, and that also kind of comes down to who's making
• 1:13:14
  cereal and it's all in the same factory.
• 1:13:17
  You know, like they're accessing the same ingredient list,
• 1:13:21
  they're accessing the same.
• 1:13:23
  Physical parameters.
• 1:13:25
  So really a super tech product.
• 1:13:26
  Like you can get a Super Tech product that looks in testing indiscernible from
• 1:13:32
  say, like a mobile one as far as the, the element breakdown, the levels, it's not
• 1:13:37
  like, uh, you'll see a situation where it's mobile one, and then because it's
• 1:13:41
  super tech, it will have like 500 fewer parts per million of calcium strictly
• 1:13:46
  because it's, it's the Walmart brand.
• 1:13:48
  Often if you want, you can dial in a comparison where you can be
• 1:13:54
  really hard pressed to tell the two apart as far as the elements that
• 1:13:58
  we will find in the spectral exam.
• 1:14:00
  It's not that rare for them to be hard to tell apart on that level.
• 1:14:04
  All right.
• 1:14:04
  Well this was a very good conversation.
• 1:14:06
  Thank you Joe.
• 1:14:07
  And for all our listeners, if you wanna learn more about Blackstone
• 1:14:10
  Labs, be sure to visit their website@ww.blackstonelabs.com or
• 1:14:17
  you can follow them on Facebook and Instagram at Blackstone Labor.
• 1:14:21
  And be sure to check out Joe's podcast, slick Talk on all the majors where
• 1:14:25
  he gets more in depth on all sorts of oil and vehicle related questions.
• 1:14:29
  Yeah, so Anne, if anyone wants to check out Slick Talk, you can access
• 1:14:33
  it on every major podcast platform.
• 1:14:36
  If there's one I don't know that we're on, I mean I'm pretty sure we're everywhere.
• 1:14:40
  Please don't hate me if you happen to find the one platform that we're not on.
• 1:14:43
  But you can find Slick Talk powered by Blackstone Laboratories
• 1:14:47
  on every major platform.
• 1:14:49
  You can also find it on YouTube if that's your route.
• 1:14:51
  And if you have any sort of questions about this talk we did today, anything
• 1:14:56
  you'd like us to follow up on.
• 1:14:58
  We'd be happy to take any topic suggestions on our social media channels.
• 1:15:02
  Very cool.
• 1:15:03
  Well, thank you again, Joe, for coming on the show.
• 1:15:05
  It's been an absolute blast and we look forward to catching up on your
• 1:15:08
  show and all the episodes you're doing and we'll get together again soon.
• 1:15:12
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:15:13
  And that, and that goes too for you guys.
• 1:15:14
  If, um, if anyone had a particular point they want us to go.
• 1:15:18
  More in depth on, on a, uh, different episode.
• 1:15:21
  That'd be cool if I had someone reach, reach out and said they
• 1:15:24
  wanted to just contribute all of their cars data to us to study and
• 1:15:28
  then, and then feature on the show.
• 1:15:30
  So I don't know if they'll go that far, but if anyone reaches
• 1:15:32
  out and wants to follow up on, on our talk, that'd be cool with me.
• 1:15:36
  I got a couple blown up VW Motors you can take apart.
• 1:15:39
  So hey, send, send them.
• 1:15:42
  Thank you so much for having me guys.
• 1:15:48
  That's right.
• 1:15:49
  Listeners, if you enjoyed this episode, be sure to check out our
• 1:15:53
  Patreon for a follow on pit stop mini.
• 1:15:57
  So check that out on www.patreon.com/gt motorsports and get access to
• 1:16:04
  all sorts of behind the scenes content from this episode and more.
• 1:16:09
  If you like what you've heard and want to learn more about GTM, be sure to
• 1:16:12
  check us out on www.gt motorsports.org.
• 1:16:16
  You can also find us on Instagram at Grand Tour Motorsports.
• 1:16:19
  Also, if you want to get involved or have suggestions for future shows, you can call
• 1:16:24
  or text us at (202) 630-1770 or send us an email at Crew chief@gtmotorsports.org.
• 1:16:31
  We'd love to hear from you.
• 1:16:33
  Hey everybody, crew Chief Eric here.
• 1:16:36
  We really hope you enjoyed this episode of Break Fix, and we wanted
• 1:16:39
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• 1:16:45
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• 1:17:21
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